Best of Sports Gossip: Taylor Swift gave a PR masterclass on Travis Kelce’s New Heights podcast

Testing. Testing. One, two, three. What time is it? A thousand o'clock? It's a thousand o'clock. They broke the internet. All I can think about is sourdough bread and otters. Amen, sister. Amen. Let's see how that sounds. Hi, Charlotte. Madeline, hello. Oh my god. We are recording this moments after finishing the first part of the New Heights exclusive interview with Miss Taylor Allison Swift that seems to have broken the internet. Yeah, we were watching the interview where Taylor Swift is on Travis and Jason Kelsey's podcast, which is not a sentence I thought I'd be saying even two years ago. Nope. And then it just, you know how on YouTube the little box, well, you're watching YouTube right now. If you're watching, if you're not, and you're hearing us, you can go see us on YouTube. We're wearing Air Stewart sweatshirts. Yeah, Madeline lent me merch because I stupidly didn't buy any at the Air Stewart. I've got you covered. Thank you so much. You're so welcome. But you know how like the boxes pop up at the end of a YouTube video and it's like you can click them. What was it? Mid-sentence. Mid-sentence. And I was like, wait, it's ending? Write this sentence? Write this sentence. Write this sentence. It was ending. This sentence is over. Yeah. And so it just cut off at like an hour and 44 minutes or something in 55 seconds. Wait, what? Is that an Easter egg? What's the math on that? What's the date? Okay. Okay. One. I'm doing math. One plus four plus four plus nine plus five. Wait, wasn't it 74 seconds? Wait, what are you talking about? One hour, 44 minutes and 50, 55 seconds. Oh, right. I don't know. I don't know if that's an Easter egg. We're just too deep in it now. The problem with being a Taylor Swift fan is that anytime she says anything, you are like, oh, well then it's definitely an album about a horseback ride through Montana with five clowns. Like you can make meaning. And all she, all she did was say the number nine. Yeah. Yeah. You can extrapolate. It's a slippery slope folks. It's a slippery slope being a Swifty. Um, wow. First impressions. First impressions of the episode. It felt to me, first of all, I think I'm a little, I'm not rad. I feel like these past three weeks, anytime we've done a show, we've been like, I'm a little rattled. Um, no, I, I think I be, I, I never thought, we would see her unfiltered. Obviously it was all very carefully. Everything she said was carefully planned out. And sure. What she didn't say was also carefully planned out. However, it was still Taylor Swift being a person. And I think that is still just kind of shocking to me. Yeah. Because it's certainly the longest we've ever heard her speak. That's not singing. Yes. You know, she's never done a podcast before, which is what she says on the podcast. And it was kind of unbelievable to see her sitting there, sitting there with a sure mic. Yeah. Like, you know, like the same, like same head, like headphones, you know, and she was doing what we're doing right now. Yes. Yes. Which just feels like too mortal. It's a podcast. I'm going to be honest. A podcast for Taylor Swift feels a little too mortal. Yeah. Like she's other, other world. She's on a stage. Yeah. And all of a sudden they were using, I know what camera it was. It was a bird dog camera and new heights. You tell someone from new heights. Tell me if I'm right. Because that thing autofocuses that when I had to set that up myself during the pandemic bane of my existence, I went out and got like a $60 webcam instead of using that thing. It looks great though. I also really did get the feeling Jason Kelsey, Travis's brother, Jason was basically the moderator. Like it was Travis and Taylor sitting together and then Jason, the moderator, it couldn't help. It felt to me like when you like meeting my husband's friends, new girlfriend, a hundred percent. Do you know what I mean? A hundred percent. Even though it's like they've met many times and have now known each other for two years or so, but it did feel like that because he's like the third wheel trying to get to know them as a couple. It's like, Oh, it's his brother in like this new, new-ish relationship. She's the new outsider coming into their family dynamic. And it's like, you could tell he was sitting there just like, he just had this look in his eyes. Like, Whoa, he just, Jason, Jason. I have never loved something on a podcast more than Jason Kelsey fighting with every ounce of his being to be like, you could see he was bright red most of the time. And he was staring at the, he, he, his eyes were very wide and he, it was like, he was saying to himself, be normal. Not that he's not, not that he's weird around Taylor in general, just that he knew cause he's a very smart guy. What a massive event this was. And suddenly he was tasked with being the Katie Couric of the moment. Oh, he was as people were saying on Twitter. He was Barbara. Yeah. He was Barbara. He was, he was Barbara Walters. He was, he was Oprah. He was Oprah. You had a great point of what it felt like. I don't remember what I said. Oh, the Royal family. Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh. I then got distracted from, I was glitching like Taylor. I think there's been a glitch. No. Uh, it reminded me of, do you remember when Megan Markle and Prince Harry and Kate and Prince William sat down for these like engagement interviews? Yes. That's what it felt like to me. Like he was doing that interview for them, whether they're engaged or not, we'll get to that. But it did feel like that. Like it was this monumental, like global televised event and people are seated for like this couple debuting. Yes. Even though again, they've been in the public eye for a while. It was the first time we've seen them together speaking. And Jason Kelsey is conducting this monumental interview. From his garage in Philadelphia in an heiress to her long sleeve t-shirt. I might add he was so he, every new heights episode, he does the intro of the guests, like a WWE, like a wrestling promo, which is amazing. And he did that for Taylor. And at the end of he, you know, it was a long announcement. She's done a lot of stuff, a long introduction. I mean, um, and at the end he was like, he said, okay, he was like, he was like, I got to catch my breath. He was like, I'm shaking. And it wasn't a bit. No, no, no. He was like, what on God's greener am I doing here on my sports podcast with my brother, my football show with my brother, we're announcing a Taylor Swift album with Taylor Swift. The one that we come to find out is the album she thinks is the best album she's ever made in her entire life. Are you kidding me? She announced it on a football podcast. Unbelievable. A football show. It is unbelievable. It is. Like I said, uh, on our Tuesday show of like, this was when we were speculating. Whether Taylor was, she was going to announce an album or that is she going to even come on? I was like, this could not be a better intersection of our interests. Our life's work led us to this moment to have her do that. 1000%. It was, I felt like I was standing on a mountaintop or I'm like a face etched into Mount Rushmore. Okay. Hello, sports gossipers down there. How do you do? You know, it's funny though. Cause when you said that on our show on Tuesday, you said it feels like my life's work will have meaning. At first I laughed so hard. And then as I've been thinking about it, I'm like, Oh, Oh no. The universe brought us together to have this show for this moment. Yes. Like the, I think for a long time, everybody has talked about, you know, for a few years now it's like sports, you know, it's the monoculture, blah, blah, blah. Sports is the only thing everybody watches at the same. It's the only thing keeping advertising alive. Everybody's trying to get in on sports, but like this felt like a, another leap in that direction where it was like, Oh no. Like, cause it used to be different. We've talked about this. It used to be sports famous and then like famous, famous, right? Sports famous is famous, famous now. Yeah, absolutely. This is, this is whole different ballgame. Crazy. No, it's unbelievable. It's crazy. And going back to Jason, it was crazy seeing him freak out. Like I would be freaking out doing that intro. I would be freaking out doing that intro. Yes. Like that's what it felt like. The whole thing is crazy. It's crazy. We're thinking about like, how did the universe put us together to sit here to watch this, that this is happening? How is Jason feeling? Yes. Doing the intro. How is Travis feeling that his girlfriend who happens to be the most famous pop star in the world is on his football podcast announcing her new album. It's crazy for everybody. I think that's like, it levels the playing field. I could not agree more. No one was no one in that situation. No one watching it or involved. involved except for Taylor Swift thought it was normal right I feel like Taylor has been famous for so long that situations like this that feel for us you know for us regular people you would be like wait what she's like no this is just my life like why not do it on your podcast I'm gonna have to announce it anyway and she was very calm in a way that like Travis and Jason also they have a podcast for a living like Taylor doesn't go on podcast they have this like relatability that you need in podcast hosts this is when I went to the camera am I right no but like truly they they were like standing in for everyone else watching this because they were like yeah we can't believe it either right yeah we can't believe it it's unbelievable I keep saying that but it really is you know something something that's coming back to me now I sort of like doing it this way because you know our listeners know we usually plan these things pretty meticulously and have a doc that we're following and tons of research I think uh for better for worse we know so much about taylor swift and so much about the chiefs and the eagles and that like it's just kind of in our heads at this point um and the travis and taylor lore but something that she said i found very interesting which was she said that when she and travis met she didn't know what a first down was yeah she said she thought that the quarterbacks faced off against each other yeah i'm not saying she wasn't telling the truth but a to have a dad who is that into football and like not know a first down what we're got maybe it was true but what it felt to me she then said all of the people who watched along with me we were learning together and i think that is the most brilliant pr thing i have maybe heard in my entire life yes because what she was saying is all these women and girls who started watching because of me we went on this journey together yes keep coming on it with me i am the same as you yes and and so spot on and as she kind of hints to throughout the podcast episode everything she does is for her fans and she's always thinking about them how can she put on a better show for them and i actually do feel like there are parallels there where she's like how can i bring them in to the fold and be like no we were on this journey together i would not be here without my fans and we are now watching football learning what a first down is learning what moving the chains is together for the first time yes which is such a smart pr move to your point but i also do think she does genuinely feel that way yeah like because she has such a deep connection to her fans she plants easter eggs as we famously know she invites them to album party listenings like that was a thing she did back in the tumblr era so it's like everything is always connected back to the fandom in some way and i it's so interesting to see football come into play and then she also said something about um i don't it was it was some line about the nfl just generally like it's been a like so great to be a part of this game and i think it's so great to be a part of this game community and i'm sure the nfl off to the side was just like yes madeline all i could think of was roger goodell in his you know bronxville whatever house where you know westchester whatever nice new york city suburb he lives in sitting there being like like slow clapping at his tv folks we got him you know we got him yes yes she said also like maybe maybe you came to watch this because of me and you stayed because of the essentially she said to the product right like right that is that is the best marketing the nfl could get and it doesn't need more marketing no yeah and another thing that she said in the episode was comparing her work performing on stage to the work that travis and jason do on the football field saying like well she has a rehearsal they have practice yes you know they have a game she has a performance yes and it like again another tie-in to the nfl specifically which i thought was so interesting and i also i i loved that she said that too and like when it when it's me it's a dressing room when it's you it's a locker room because i think that that whether she intended it this way or not gets at the gendered nature of how people how seriously people take something for her her whole career it's been people being like oh you like taylor like you know especially men you know she said the dads brads and chads in that time article talking about people who were mad that they were the nfl was showing her during broadcasts or the broadcasters were showing her but there's also an element of it where she's like what we do is not different yeah mine is just is is um has been gendered in a way that it's easy for these guys who love football to say why are you showing taylor swift and she's like why why are they showing me because i do the exact same thing as the people you love watching and there's something really really um like the the most powerful form of instead of saying you know go bleep yourself she's saying oh no i'm gonna i'm gonna break this down very simply for you they're both putting on a show for an audience for a very large audience in a stadium and yes the actual medium is different but the outcome is kind of the same they their goal is to entertain their fans yes and that's what they're doing yeah it doesn't really matter what the whether you're singing or throwing a football and catching it you know and it's the same electric energy like it's the same electric energy like it's the same electric energy like i yeah and i think that's something that has always fascinated me about the super bowl like being at being at a super bowl covering a super bowl feels like you're at the center of the universe because it is both the biggest game of the biggest league and also the biggest musical performance that people watch on tv right so it it is all the same thing for one day a year yeah i also thought it was interesting when you know jason and travis were talking about taylor's prep that went into the air restore and she did all of this conditioning and endurance training and they were pointing to her being an athlete and she had this kind of like very taylor swift like the business of taylor swift answer kind of like a little self-deprecating like i don't view myself as an athlete which maybe she doesn't but she is an athlete and they were right and i it is interesting like she just really was deflecting that like she's like i'm you know travis was like well you're really good on a team like you're a team player you don't you're not like an individual sport athlete which it just got me thinking like she is she is like the captain of the football team yeah whether she thinks she is or not yeah i would agree that she is like she the business of taylor swift and her getting on stage at the air restore is not a one-woman show she might be the center of attention but she is like more like the captain steering a ship with a lot of other players yes you know totally and and i loved how i loved hearing her talk about leadership i loved hearing her talk about i mean basically that could have been also like a business school class in marketing totally because what what she did and didn't say um when she talked about everything she does is for her fans the reason she's successful is because she gives people something and she delivers on it we love taylor swift because we love her music we love the show she puts on and we love the world that she has created yeah i don't love pop stars the way that i love taylor swift because there is something she's built where it is obvious that she doesn't want to she's never phoning it in no never and she says that like she's like i couldn't have a sick day on the heiress tour it's like she she there could not be a performance where she wasn't at the top of her game yeah you know it's like to your point it's like she's always thinking about how can i put on the best performance and deliver a premium piece of content to my audience give them a the nfl likes to view itself it's like they're giving their fans like a premium experience the halftime show at the super bowl is premium like the the national anthem is dramatic like during the super bowl it's like they are putting together these like premium pieces of content every sunday obviously leading to the main event the super bowl but it does feel similar like i feel like the ethos is the same well also if you think about it i mean think about jerry jones with cowboys however you think of him as a person yes he saw the vision of making sorry there's a um ambulance going by and i'm also the emergency i'm also so hot i might have to take it off i'm gonna turn i'm gonna jack the air up jack do whatever you gotta do okay hold on one sec charlotte's gonna uh take off her heiress tour sweatshirt getting too excited talking about taylor swift over here i know well see the problem is i'm too hot but i can't i can't take it off all right you're committed are you sure i'm just gonna be a little sweaty we're keeping this in yeah we're keeping this in by the way this is also we're again in my house yes apartment um no and my hair is just doing all sorts of stuff yeah that's that's what you get for a late night record yeah so i i think in in terms of what jerry jones saw with like and what charlotte jones his daughter who runs the dallas cowboys and what um the kelly and judy in charge of the team blah blah blah if you watch the cowboys doc you know what i'm talking about if you don't go watch our episode about it um is that fan experience yes and the the cheerleaders like to me like an extension of building a universe yes for your fans yes like the cowboys were like how do we extend the fandom how do we create more hype and excitement around the product of the cowboys even when the cowboys aren't delivering maybe the best on the field performance okay i'm not saying taylor swift doesn't deliver no no but you know what i mean well the cowboy the cheerleaders are the best part yeah like it's like you know right super bowl between the rams and the patriots halftime show is the best part yeah i think it was maroon five so it's really not saying much because anyway um not to get too sportsy here go for it something that the nfl has done that has differentiated itself from other leagues is first of all i mean the brutality of football the stakes are extremely high all the time also the rarity of it the scarcity factor of it there are 17 games a year you get to watch your team play 17 times guaranteed maybe more good yeah um everything is an event yes they do releases they they announce when they're going to announce the schedule yes taylor swift and the nfl actually have very similar marketing strategies and i think that the nfl is so popular because they have they have like hit this confluence of things that make fans make it an event yes and and like the nba we love the nba a lot of people love the nba there are a lot of games yeah it's hard to watch your team play every game pretty easy to watch every sunday yeah it's pretty easy and it just makes me think about like what other leagues could do to i mean I've for a long time I think you need fewer games in a lot of the leagues like but it but all of this ties back to giving people something they can't miss yeah it's it's must-see television and like the heiress tour was a prime example it was a must-get ticket yeah it was like you had to be there is what it felt like it was like if you weren't there you were seeing clips on social media if you're not at the game on Sunday you're seeing clips on social media if you're not watching with your friends yeah you're alone watching it right or like yeah there's creates like it's almost like the NFL and the business of Taylor Swift create this intense FOMO fandom culture and hype that creates more buzz and excitement around these main events so concerts or these games that people are like I need to participate in some way I need to buy the merch I need to buy my players favorite or their jersey like my favorite players jersey yeah like you you want to find ways that you can participate in the fandom in any way possible and it is such a similar strategy you're so right I also think that there's something amazing about Taylor Swift then coming into the NFL universe right bringing with her you know not just women I get annoyed when people are like she brought women it's like yeah she brought a lot of women she also brought men who didn't care before like and and I think that there's something so fascinating to me about how she she made this thing that like I remember before I worked in sports I didn't know a ton I I didn't know a ton about the NFL I love the Patriots didn't know much about other teams yeah and I remember the acute feeling of feeling stupid or feeling cut out of conversations when mostly guys that I knew some women too but like traditionally like bros in college would be talking about a game and I would be sitting there on the couch being like I hate that I can't contribute to this but I wasn't socialized to need to know this yes and so Taylor comes along brings other people with her says hey this is pretty fun right why don't you come with me part of the reason I think people got so mad when she was being shown on broadcast is because guys who have typically been able to gatekeep this as a way to make themselves feel like they know something a large part of the population might not know yeah all of a sudden that facade is being torn down right and not to get to tooting our own horn what we are trying to do here is make people feel like they know something a large part of the population might not know make sports accessible so that you can listen and you don't feel stupid in those moments because no one thought you needed to know it yeah and I think what Taylor's doing with the NFL is just a part of that that the fact that she went on that show tonight and we have this show and we got picked up by the athletic it I really don't mean to be navel gazing it it is all coming from the same breakdown of that gatekeeping right yes yes I sorry enough said you know I totally agree and I think her I mean of course she went on the show it's her boyfriend's show would she go on any NFL show I don't think so maybe who knows but but unlikely so there's obviously personal reasons why she went on it but even just when when we started that when the premiere counted down all the way to zero and she pops up on the screen on a new heights YouTube channel video it it just felt like almost like a sigh of relief like here she is like allowing all these new fans to watch and also like holding the door open to be like yeah you can watch an NFL game look at me I'm on an NFL podcast yeah you know what I mean so true like and that's kind of I don't know that's how I felt watching it of like wow this is this is like going to change the game no pun intended but pun intended you know what I mean but there's a pun in there yeah yeah I think that's such a that's a profound way to put it it the sigh of relief it felt all of a sudden this is it felt monumental yeah yes in a way that I don't think maybe is like fully hitting us right at this moment it feels like when you're like when you point to something you're like that was the turning point in yes sports history like it feels like that that was a turning point in sports media history yes right then like yes that this moment I'm like oh well what is going to happen in the next six months or a year what other shows are going to come out what other stars are going to date athletes or maybe go on um sports podcasts or start their own shows I mean just like you could have a whole five-hour conversation around the state of sports media and how this conversation completely changed it changes it I mean like yes it does it's also crazy it's so funny because usually when we do these shows we have talked to each other before yes no we haven't we literally stopped it I'm also like phlegmy we're phlegmy and hot yeah I'm so hot this is but truly I'm not it's continuity we have to leave it in do you remember I'm as sweaty as Jason was interviewing yes Taylor Swift yes you remember during the Miss Maine episode the sun if anyone's watched that episode the sun slowly starts coming on my face and then at one point Charlotte looks at me and is like we gotta move the table we move the table and then it cuts to us back interviewing and we're like well we had to move because of the sun but like if you're watching the first like 20 minutes of the episode the sun is just like coming across my face so because because of the Jordan episode last week last week uh where we had to go back and watch the Miss Maine oh yeah I was like this is so insane we were watching it for like a very serious reason and we were really stressed but then we would watch it and we would just watch the sun just rise up Madeline's face and we would and I'm talking about like aesthetic labor in my master's degree laughing do I need to turn the air up more sure go for it I think I'm going to this is going to be a this is our uh third character in this podcast episode it's the AC cranking it up it's a heat wave over here also when we were watching the episode this is just a behind the scenes this is what is it the the showgirl era behind the scenes it was pouring into it in like a thunderstorm which felt like Taylor Swift was getting a message from the gods yes yes sorry yes um I'm so sweaty I hope you you don't look at the air conditioning up so if you can hear it now sorry sorry sorry um I was gonna say oh yeah it just feels very monumental and it really does feel like a turning point for sports media and the business of sports and how people need to invite more types of fans in and how people are craving content that is kind of like sports adjacent and we hope that we're giving you yeah that with the show again not to talk about ourselves but it is it's just interesting timing well also like part of why this show can exist now is because Taylor Swift started dating Travis kelsey 100 percent that's why we're talking about our own show it's not because we think we're so great it's because these things are directly if that didn't happen this show might not have happened right yes seriously I mean because think about if we go back in time when she started dating Travis Kelsey one of my biggest sub stacks was about her dating him and it was like uh Taylor Swift dating Travis Kelsey is my Roman Empire that led to a huge influx in subscribers Charlotte I met more people in sports I met Charlotte like it would we wouldn't be here in a lot of ways no we wouldn't and also I don't know if if that hadn't happened if there would have been an appetite for this kind of thing not just about them right well and I also think what people need like um I think more than anything is a blueprint and an example of this type of content working and the example was Taylor Swift dating Travis Kelsey and I think and the online chatter and excitement around that was like the perfect example of like oh there's there's interest here in these sort of like off the field relationships there can be casual fans who are invested in NFL games not necessarily because they know the name of every player but they know that Taylor Swift is dating one of the chief stars and it gave I don't know I kind of feel like it gave people confidence to like open up about their peripheral interest in sports which kind of led to this in some ways especially I think you know there's a lot of talk about women um when it comes to Taylor Swift and the NFL and and I think there's something there about um in order for this show to exist it had to be so undeniably huge something that is is is marked as traditionally feminine which is who are they dating who is like what is it it had to be the biggest person in the world the biggest woman in the world dating the biggest woman in the world it had to be super pop star it had to be a superstar of levels that are that we have seldom seen dating an athlete for people to take this seriously and I think um it also does show like I think it taught some men like we have a lot of guys who listen to this show and it was like a lot it's not it doesn't have to be a lesser thing to care about who these people are off the field no no actually it actually is the only reason I like sports because I know because it's the reality show as we always say it helps inform what's happening on the field and why maybe certain players are having a better game or worse game than other times because of what's going on off the field and it it's it really just informs so much more of what's going on in the actual sport yeah yeah so for her for her to go on new Heights oh is truly monumental and also a further Defiant I'm here yes because in one of the social clips she said I'm here because no your male fans love nothing more the only thing they want is to see more of me yes like addressing it head-on being like yeah no I know a lot of you are going to hate this right and that's partly why I'm doing it she said on the show she was like I'm petty yeah which brings me to something you said earlier about PR to me her going on the show was a master class in PR and controlling the narrative and revealing just enough information to hook people in but not revealing too much yeah she talks about at the beginning of the show um about how they met obviously and Travis says you or excuse me Taylor says I owe a lot to this podcast this podcast got me a boyfriend iconic line because Travis famously was upset that he didn't get to meet Taylor after her show at Arrowhead right said so on the show and then everybody in her life who knew him or tangentially told her to date him yeah and and it so you were getting these kind of glimpses into their personal life without them divulging more than the truth yeah I think that's a good point they're comfortable with again also because it's their show and they can control the narrative and whatever's cut we don't know obviously but it felt like it like gave the audience and the fans like enough information and personal connection to their relationship that I know obviously it has been the focal point of so much news since they started dating that it was just like the smartest line that they were walking that was like giving you something but then they like didn't divulge more but then they talked about like otters and sourdough bread for literally three minutes 30 minutes unbelievable unbelievable you know you know it was we were wild we I felt I felt high at one point we're I'm just watching I'm like Travis is talking about how he wants to save an otter in the wild not like just go visit one at a zoo or something he wants to say what and Taylor's talking about making blueberry sourdough and funfetti sourdough for Jason Kelsey's kids yes but Travis only wants to save the otter if the otter knows that he saved it unbelievable if you if you told me no context that oh the Taylor Swift episode on New Heights was about otters and sourdough I'd be like I'm sorry what which is that can't be right that was you know Laura Mipsom the text that like fills in something when you're mocking up a website or something they Laura Mipsom to that 100% for a good chunk of the show which again I respect oh yeah I think I loved it part of what I love about Taylor Swift is it is it is watching um a chess player at the top of their game play the game of the media yes and it is yes thrilling to watch probably because we're part of the media right so of course we're invested um I think too doing this show most of what we analyze is the public relations that people have and the choices they make and she is so smart and so far ahead of the game that it's really just like watching a beautiful tennis match yes where I loved that interview not because of what we learned not because I mean I'm very excited for the album we'll talk about that in a sec but but not because of anything she said but because of how she played the game using this medium absolutely and I mean she was the number one student at the tree pain school of media training yeah and when she was talking about reclaiming her masters and buying back her masters and she's getting emotional emotional talking about it and really going through like the step-by-step business process buying masters I was like I feel like I'm in a business school class yeah it was unbelievable and to just like get that level of detail I think on a football podcast about reclaiming her masters felt like the perfect PR master class about getting her masters back yeah because that's what she wanted to talk about she wanted people to know that she wanted people to know about the album there were specific things that if you are trained in the media you could see what the if you aren't it's just a fun interesting interview yeah um but I think too like I'm very wary of famous people I don't know saying like oh I love this person because if I don't know them I don't know them right what I love about Taylor Swift is her music um and and how brilliant she is at at using the media and not using the media and and being so relevant and at the top of her game for two years I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know 20 years unbelievable I admire it so deeply yeah and it is so cool that it is touching the sports world yeah and it's funny because the otter sourdough 30 minute rant that they went on definitely didn't feel like that was a talking point because you could tell on Jason's face like we kept joking Jason just kind of like sitting there at point just like okay do I chime in with another question like you know but it felt like it was a it perfectly weaved into the talking points you know which is always a sign of a good thing you're getting these like funny tidbits it's like that's probably what people are going to remember from the episode is that the this like oh my god remember this funny bit they had about otters which again is the perfect thing for people to remember because it's not too intimately connected to their personal lives it's like a funny talking point it shows their personalities it shows Taylor really likes doing like um she said hobbies from the 1700s I think or something like that and Travis is just like really obsessed with otters and it's like that that is the perfect like fun factiness yeah that you want from celebrities that you just really don't get anymore yeah because before celebrities you should just like do all these interviews like back in the day say whatever they want you get like just so much content and then clearly like just the the PR machine kind of came in and pulled things back a lot and you don't get things like that anymore really partly because it's the death of media not to go all big not but like all of this is just like so profound because it's like in the 90s you had Vogue and you did a Vogue interview yes with with a writer who didn't have to protect you because Vogue was bigger than you were yes you did these things because you had to and then with the media ecosystem dying and you know social media being the way nobody needs to do it and what I think this might mark a pendulum swing when celebrity when athletes started producing their own documentaries and stopped really doing profiles like the ones I used to do for Sports Illustrated I was like this is this is eventually going to be detrimental for famous people because there is a humanization when you let someone else see you and tell other people about you even if it's not fully perfect even if it's not exactly how you wanted it to go that let people know who you are in a way that you never could it's like Jordan Hudson can't tell us who she is yeah yeah but if someone were to follow her around for a day and write about it which is essentially what we ended up doing in talking to her right you find out more objectively who she is and it's so fascinating that Taylor Swift the biggest star on the planet has regardless of whether it was her boyfriend's podcast or not felt the need to touch back down to earth and humanize herself again and be like I've gotten too far away from people knowing that I'm a person yeah we have to touch back down I think we're going to see a lot more celebrities even if they are going on friendly shows starting to open up in more candid ways because people now are seeing through the veneer of of social media and being like we just don't buy it so we're not interested in you if you're not real no and that's why I think a lot of celebrities now the most impactful media get they can earn like getting organic media and awareness is via podcasts and being guests on these long form podcasts where you're you're getting this arc where they're like yes they're hitting their talking points they're talking about their new project but you're also learning about their sour dough hobbies and your boyfriend's love of otter yeah you know and so you're you're getting like a taste of who they are outside of their work but also of course you're getting like the PR approved talking points talking points about the project they're trying to promote yes totally and what is so fascinating to me is that the same week that Taylor went on new heights Travis Kelsey agreed to do a GQ feature he did a cover story with GQ he let a writer into his life he did he didn't have to do that no he didn't have to do that he is one of the most famous athletes in the world now and yet he and his team who I would guess is now Taylor's team yeah saw the value in saying you are not you your job in this relationship is to be the relatable one is to be the guy that people feel they can see themselves in and what I loved so much that Travis said in that GQ interview is that he now thinks a lot about how he wants to be portrayed let me you know what actually let me let me read this full quote wow because this this kind of blew my mind he said um put another way I've become way more strategic in understanding what I am portraying to people later during our time together the writer says he tells me I have a good understanding of how I want to be portrayed wow which is like a he's thinking about a lot he has to because he's with Taylor Swift he has really good media training people in his life but b he understands that letting people in and seeing who he is because he's this goofy nice guy I know Travis yeah I interviewed Travis for years before he became this level of famous and he was always like really lovely so why wouldn't you let people see that right yeah he's like a superpower to have in your back pocket if you're if you're Taylor Swift's team exactly it's like why wouldn't you put the two of them together it's like a superpower explosion like you can't get any better or PR than that moment. - No. - Really? can't um yeah i just i honestly it's funny now that we're talking about this because again we just kind of jumped into recording i actually think i'm like a little blown away by what what we were able to witness like from a pr perspective obviously just as a swifty seeing them together of course like it was amazing but just how they clearly are navigating this fame together and and controlling the narrative around how they want to be perceived while also still letting in their fans to be able to like perceive them if that makes sense you know totally and it really is blowing my mind that that travis agreed to a traditional print interview the same week they did this that well that was strategic i'm sure yes and it's hopeful to me i'm like oh my god maybe we're gonna get magazine profiles yes bring them back bring back a good magazine and i know they still happen but this felt like an event the way that they even even six years ago felt right um i also think it was just so watching watching taylor um you you you get the sense that like she is so dedicated to her art for her i don't know i i can we talk about the album for a second yes please i have not been this excited for an album oh i mean look i was really excited for heim but but this album taylor said that she were okay so we talked about the whole karma of it all which people think was a lost album that she was supposed to release before all of this stuff in her personal life happened and she felt like her reputation was ruined so she wrote reputation released that um people were saying that this might be that there are a whole bunch of reasons you can go on tiktok um i think that this probably does have elements of that original album if that is true because she's working again with max martin and shelbach two swedish producers who made some of the best music for her album and she's making some of the best songs in the history of the world with her yeah and when she said she wanted to go back to them to do something that was like the tightest crispest oh banger of after banger of an album yeah this is what i have been begging for since 1989 yes just give us give us an album with hits it's 12 songs 12 songs and as of now there's only one feature sabrina carpenter on the last song who knows maybe it's a double album and there's maybe an album of collapse i i feel like her releasing an album that is like 12 songs that she says like one they're bangers but they're like her best work is the perfect culmination of the work she put in the past few years to put on the best tour of all time which is such an athlete mentality yes to be the goat yes you know it's like she she is thinking like a goat no this is you know what i mean tom brady in the gym working on pliability when everyone thought he was insane yes this is this is that yes this level i think i also i feel i'm the same exact age as taylor and travis born in 1989 um and i feel like maybe part of what i feel is is watching their mastery of their craft because that's what travis talks about a lot in this gq article as well um and this feeling of watching someone all of a sudden understand the crispness of like what it means to distill their work down to its best yeah most elemental simplest tightest form is like really really cool yeah and it's so satisfying to watch i think as a fan yeah and and just as someone like you know we do this podcast and we want it to be the best thing it can be yes you know what i mean and like just for anyone who's doing anything in the world this could be anyone it can kind of apply to anyone you know like you want to put out the best work that you can yeah you know and whatever you're doing and i think taylor swift is the model of that like watching her watching her perform in the eras tour was just such a feat and it was like the athletic ability the stage presence she had and then for her to do this interview and continue to break records obviously with tortured poets and break every single album record blah blah tour record of all time whatever and then now she's saying like no this is my best work like she's always looking for room to improve and be like no i want to put out the greatest work i possibly can and there's always like one millimeter yeah of improvement i inch torts yeah it's it's it's why it feels like mozart you know like i can't it it doesn't feel like something people are willing to admit they're trying to do and i think that's also what i appreciated about it she said i'm trying to be the i'm trying to make the best album i've ever made she said i know that's putting a lot of pressure on myself yeah i'm gonna say it anyway yeah no i love that and and i think that there's something so deeply millennial about travis and taylor where they're talking about playing beer pong oh yeah she can be you know she's got her sort of folksy like what the kids would call cringe which whatever right i don't subscribe to that but i'm a millennial so i'm probably cringe um that there is this this earnestness to both of them that i think can feel refreshing at a time where it's seen as embarrassing to try yes there's so much cynicism look i'm the most cynical person in the world but i also appreciate those moments of like hey you know what i'm really like we're trying really hard right now yeah we're trying really hard to make this a great show right and we really need people watching to like it yeah so we're trying to make you like it you know like yeah that to to say that i think is like not where social media has led us no and so it's cool i don't know i appreciate it i think she definitely walked a fine line there were points like especially when she was talking about the athlete thing being like i don't think i'm an athlete which she was definitely like i don't think i'm an athlete which i don't think i'm an athlete definitely being humble and all of that but i do appreciate the confidence of just being like no i'm trying to put out my best work possible and i'm going to put that on record on probably the most streamed youtube video and most listened to podcast episode of all time yeah 1000 and i can't get over jason oh my i can't get over jason jason he was the best like he was like a sidekick you know what i mean it was unbelievable his facial expressions his timing and then oh our favorite thing he said he so in the intro he says like 21 countries or something like that for the tour the heiress tour and then later on he asked her and how many countries did you well because because it was after this like incredibly intimate moment where travis was telling taylor how much he loved her and why he loved her having like sweet eye contact with each other and it was it felt like oh uh i don't know that we should be seeing this and taylor said something like no one should be seeing this as in like get a room saying it joking about herself and then it cuts back to jason travis's brother and he said i don't know that we should be seeing this and taylor said something like no one he's looking at the camera and he goes um so uh how many countries did you go to with the heiress tour and she's like you already asked me that you already said that at the top and i just i it felt at times like look i loved it i think she's so deeply impressive blah blah it did feel at times like you were the third week i felt like i was jason oh yeah watching that interview where also like taylor hasn't done a lot of she's never done a podcast right like there's a way you do a podcast like the kind of work you wait for the question like clearly jason was i would imagine at least that jason was straight i would imagine at least that jason was straight i would imagine that jason was like okay when can i ask my next question she was talking yes she was talking which was great i mean selfishly i was like please keep talking but i could tell him when they would cut to jason you could just tell me he's kind of like he was like i am not sure how to steer this ship right now he steered it though he steered it right on into the port he did an amazing job i just i felt like he represented everybody watching that in a way that we so deeply needed yes because taylor and travis even though she was there being a person and human they still feel like so far away right jason's in his garage being like i'm sweating profusely um same and and i just i also think that that's what like he and kylie his wife kylie kelsey's podcast not gonna lie do so well is they truly as much as any two famous people can still seem grounded yes have remained so absolutely and so i really did i felt like i was jason watching and i was on i was the third wheel on a date where two people were watching and i was like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm really in love and you get a little you start like getting red because you're like i don't know if i should be here but like we were all that yeah we were all that i felt like it was the perfect tone for a celebrity podcast jason it really was a perfect whole thing yeah yes it was like the perfect tone and i feel like yes i we've like we the collective audience were jason kelsey we were jason i loved it so like i truly it brought me give give me like jason doing in investigative reporting 21 countries 21 countries unbelievable okay to wrap things up yeah album is 12 songs what i what are your predictions for the album um or just for the travis kelsey taylor swift universe based on this podcast episode that's a great question well i think we both you know she says that she made this album at a time in her life where things she wanted the most is in her life and she said it felt very exuberant and happy and like exciting um it's hard not to say i mean i think i mean we've already said like are they engaged or not again we don't know however i do feel like they are engaged based on just the tone and and the the vibes between them it felt engagedy and i feel like she's gonna have lyrics on the album that reveal it that's my guess she also said to jason at one point well we're fans family yeah yeah which i feel like you don't say to a boyfriend you could to a boyfriend's brother felt like a slip-up and they just kept it in and they were like you know what let's let's leave it yeah i mean she said she doesn't do easter eggs about her personal life but maybe that was just like a whatever really yeah i don't even think of that so much as an east i think for her easter eggs are like planned things with her career that relate to her music correspond to numbers i think she leaves hints yes that she wouldn't categorize as easter eggs but like she wrote an entire album about someone we can only assume is named maddie healy right based on what we knew you like you know based on the vibes she tells you a lot about her personal life oh yeah and she said that in the episode like you know she said that in the episode one bone to pick with her what taylor said she's not online uh-huh she doesn't look at the comments i i think she protects her peace yes i think she is a healthy way of doing so i think she sees more than she's letting on well i agree with that because she does like swifty like tweets and and things like that whether that's being sent to her and she's just liking it and like getting offline she's somewhat online like she might not be looking at troll accounts which no one should do that also don't don't online cyberbullying don't do that not nice no um but yeah i agree i felt like i was like all right whatever i'll let you have that one also her whole career she's not online she's not online she's not online she's not online she's not has been built on the internet yeah exactly and so she knows it yeah she would pick fans from tumblr for the listening sessions yeah you know like super fans that's how that's the whole point of them so she's doing some social listening as they're saying the biz oh wow look at you the other thing i was going to say about the episode just as like a a couple final parting thoughts yeah is she did a lot of hand hand gesture work and maybe that's just a performer in her she's she's used to just having her hands out there but there was a lot of left hand showing with no ring on it and i don't know it was it was a lot of like hand in the in the screen the lady the lady doth protest too much yes you might say oh i'm like look i'm not engaged i'm not over and over yeah there's a lot of this like it doesn't matter no no no it's just just for the gossip element of our show oh no but you know what i mean i just mean like whether they're engaged or not like they're together yeah yeah they're happy who cares but there's something so fun about being like well but well it's is there a ring yeah it's like when you can tell someone online is being mysterious and you're like oh my god i think they got engaged on that trip to italy yes you know yeah you're like that friend from high school yes they're engaged oh i live that's what it's like you're like and you're trying to decode you're texting your friends from high school like wait i think like she posted like a weird blurry photo like a like late comos in the background like or something you know and that's what it feels like yes 1000 and yeah i mean it's also just i feel like you know i don't know that was crazy it was unbelievable that was and and who knows if that's even the end of it as of this recording i keep checking new heights's twitter and nothing so i think they broke youtube or that's crazy or it was an intentional glitch and it's a taylor thing and at midnight or something they're gonna like release something i don't know or it really was just a glitch in the matrix on the internet being a taylor swift fan is like just like having a good british mystery yeah every night if you want to like i've been watching crazy tiktoks about one i did love what this is called the life of a show girl oh and she's reclaiming the color orange yes kanye's album kanye and taylor were famously in a fight in 2016 his album from 2016 was called the life of pablo the type set on her album kind of mimics his yeah his album is orange hers is orange i feel like that could be i mean from now on anyone searched the life of pablo's not popping up it's gonna be miss taylor it's gonna be show girl yeah and that's that's the long game on revenge folks oh i love it one other thing that i really like she said they were talking about andy reed head coach of the chiefs and she was talking about his leadership style and she said when you lose your shit you lose your leadership and i thought that that was probably why the people in her circle are so loyal to her yeah because she understands that to lead and truly have people on your side you can't be blowing up with them no you know you have i think something that i try to think about in my life is everything is result oriented which sounds like some you know andrew huberman garbage of like or like tim ferris life hack right but what i really mean is like if i want this outcome yeah what is the best way to get there yeah and oftentimes it means like taking emotion out of something right and doing something and approaching it calmly and methodically and it feels like that is taylor's entire career hundred percent and that's also a part of what is so uh alluring about her yeah and and like motivating i think going back to like always being the best it's like she's she's always striving to do better and be the best leader that she can be and again she is an athlete she's a captain of a football team yeah and a captain needs to steer the ship in the right direction and look before you're like oh you guys love taylor so so much like yeah we are we do we are fans also though like there are critical things you can say about her yes but in this instance of this podcast and how it relates to what we're doing here it just it it felt like um a very big thing yeah it happened so that's what we're focusing on yeah felt monumental yeah yeah wow i'm so sweaty so sweaty i'm so remarkably sweaty right now the takeaway from the episode is sweaty taylor swiss an athlete sports do the best in what you do oh my god what you do put out 12 songs only crisp albums crisp um keep it crisp well if you've made it this far and stayed up late with us to watch this thank you so so much for watching we really really appreciate it and as always please like this video comment on it subscribe on youtube subscribe on apple spotify wherever you get your podcasts you can follow us on instagram at sports gossip and on tiktok at sports gossip show you nailed that stuck the landing stuck the landing okay i'm gonna go take this okay