Best Of: John Turturro / Jordan Firstman on ‘Club Kid’

From WHYY in Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with Fresh Air Weekend. Today, John Turturro. He stars in the new film, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. To prepare, he studied with a pickpocket. I had my hands in certain places, but a lot of times I thought, well, if I take it out, then if I get caught, what am I supposed to say? You know, I'm doing research. Yeah, I don't know if that would, you know, would fly. Turturro has starred in films by Spike Lee and the Coen Brothers, in HBO's The Night Of, and is in Severance. Also, Jordan Firstman talks about writing, directing, and starring in the new comedy-drama film Club Kid, and how the story relates to his own life. He plays a hard-partying gay club promoter who discovers he has a 10-year-old kid. Firstman also stars in the HBO comedy series I Love L.A. That's coming up on Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, John Turturro, stars in a new movie that I'll tell you about in a minute. He's been riveting ever since the early years of his career, like in the film Five Corners, in which his character is totally unhinged and throws his mother out the window. And in the Coen Brothers film, Miller's Crossing, as a bookie who's skimmed money from a gangster and is begging for his life, as he's about to be killed by a gangster. He was also in the Coen Brothers films Barton Fink, The Big Lebowski, and Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? He was convincing as a racist in Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing, and was also in Lee's films Jungle Fever, Mo' Better Blues, and Clockers. Skipping ahead to the recent past, he's given great performances in the HBO series The Night Of and The Plot Against America. And he's in the Apple TV series Severance. Now he stars in the new film The Only Living Picnic. He loves playing people who are morally complex, neither all good nor all bad, and his character in Pickpocket is a great example. DeTuro stars as Harry, a skilled pickpocket who's becoming obsolete because of technology that he hasn't learned to use. He doesn't have a cell phone or a computer. Wallets he steals have lots of credit cards but little cash. The watches he's been slipping off his victim's wrists haven't been worth much. He's financially unstable. He's on the edge, but he needs money to take care of his wife, who is unresponsive, probably from the lasting effects of a stroke. The story takes a turn when he steals the backpack of a college-age kid who turns out to be the grandson of a crime boss. John DeTuro, welcome back to Fresh Air. I love this new movie. You're terrific in it. Thank you for coming today. Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure. So you did a lot of research for this. You even understudied a pickpocket slash musician. If we were on the New York subway, would you be able to pick my pocket? Are you skilled enough to do that now? Well, it depends what kind of pockets you have, what you're wearing. Horizontal pockets that are really tight with tight jeans are hard. Back pockets are easier. Overcoats, you know, pockets are looser. Well, your backpack is on your back and it's. Your zipper isn't completely, you know, zipped up. Then your hand would be in it if you were. Yeah, I mean, I basically did scout a lot of people and I had my hands in certain places. But a lot of times I thought, well, if I take it out, then if I get caught, what am I supposed to say? Yeah, I don't know if that would, you know, would fly, you know. But I did it, you know, in the production office and on the set all the time. I was practicing. And Apollo Robbins, who I read a profile of in the New Yorker, who is a brilliant magician, pickpocket, who had half-brothers who were criminals, he really helped me, gave me exercises and worked with me. Usually, pickpockets have worked as teams, a man and a woman, a lot of the time. Oh, for distraction? Yeah, for one person sets the other person up and moves them around because you don't come in directly in your life. It's a line of vision. You come in from the side. You go from the sort of the social situation to a little more personal until you can get really intimate with the person. The whole idea is that they're not going to feel what you do. But if you have a leather watch, a leather wristband, you know, he can take it right off of you with one hand. And that was something I practiced again and again and again. God, I have enough trouble taking off my wristwatch. I know. I'm not sure how you do that. Yeah. But a lot of it is misdirection. It's a violation, obviously, but it's a nonviolent crime. And you are taking, when people did carry cash, they're spending money. You're not wiping them out. You may take your wristwatch. You're not stealing their bank account. No, you're not stealing their bank account. Like people do digitally now. That's right. Yeah. It's a whole different thing. And it was a tradition for a long time. And a lot of the pickpockets came from, you know, broken homes, orphanages. And they formed these little families that they would bail each other out. And they would work certain shifts with agreements, sometimes with the police, who would get a little taste of the action from them. Were you ever in Oliver and had to sing, you've got to pick a pocket or two? I directed Oliver for my mom's church with my mom in it and my brother, St. Clair's Church. I think while I was in college. So I directed it. Yes. Okay. Good preparation. Yeah. Good preparation. I'm a Dickens fan, obviously. So, but I read a lot of different books, especially the book, Noah Segan, who wrote a beautiful script. He gave me a book called Whiz Mob by the fellow who wrote The Big Con that The Sting is based on. And it's sort of a sociological work because he interviews all these. Men and women pickpockets in the book. And you see their sort of code and their morality of what they do and what they won't do. Like they won't steal from someone who's drunk or a really old person who, you know, has difficulty moving. It's the criminal with a code kind of thing. Yeah. No, they actually do that. The emotional center of the movie revolves around family. His wife. Like your character's wife is, I'm not sure how, I said catatonic. Well, she's obviously not responsive. Yes. But like, what is her medical condition? Do you know? Well, it was never really specified in there. But obviously, sometimes people have a stroke. Right. And they don't respond. But their functions are okay, you know. But obviously, he has to do a lot of intimate things. You know, with her, you know, carry her up the stairs, you know, bathe her, clean her, comb her hair, make sure she's hydrated. Worry about her catheter. Yeah, her catheter. So there's all these things. And I was sort of struck when I read the script because I thought it's so well structured. It has an Aristotelian almost structure. It doesn't take place in 24 hours. But it's 36 hours, really. And with this propulsive tension that's inherent in the script, there's this juxtaposed with this tenderness of this man who's never really taken care of anyone, as we discovered later. But now for the last, you know, bunch of years, he's understood what it is to care for someone or to use that. Right. Most ambiguous of words to love someone because that's an action. It's not a word. And I think people are capable of growth. I don't think they change, but they're capable of growth. And you do see him treating everyone else in the movie very gentlemanly. You know, he's always giving tips and, you know, trying to say thank you to people. And he depends on the kindness of someone. Of strangers, too. But he reciprocates. So you've been in the position of being a caregiver. I have. Your brother had paranoid schizophrenia. Yeah. OCD. Yeah. Bipolar. Yeah. It's a lot. Depression. It's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. And you became his guardian after both your parents were dead. What did that mean to be his guardian? Oh, well, I was. He was a legal guardian because he inherited some money when I sold my mom's house. But I had to make sure he had a place to live. When the hospital discharged him, he was at Creedmoor for a long time. Yeah. He was there for like seven years, right? Eleven years he was there. I didn't realize they had discharged him. They had discharged him. So I had to find different residences. And then I put him in an apartment. I had to hire all the aides. And then someone who was in charge of the aides so I could function. He could be very, you know, abusive and very unpredictable. So you never knew what was going to happen. So I was always on sort of a high alert, no matter where I was in the world. Uh, I tried to protect my own family, you know, from him. Uh, and then eventually he did sort of, we finally got him on a medicine, which he could take monthly. And he sort of, if schizophrenics live long enough, they sort of plateau. They're not as, uh, volcanic, but there were times I he'd be in a hospital because he acted up in, he got thrown out of a lot of apartments. Uh, it was really hard to do cause there's no system for mentally ill people. They wind up on the streets, but I, I know he, he depended. On me and, uh, he had a major effect on my life as a person. And I did learn a lot about myself, how much I could withstand and how, uh, how I learned to protect myself somewhat because you have to, you have to be able to sort of form a little barrier around you. Was he violent and did he ever like threaten you in a very serious way or, or maybe? He was violent. Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons he went to the mental hospital was cause I was worried about my mom because she was a widow. That's right. It was, uh, yes. And, uh, and yes, he, he could be violent. And he also had a lot of violence done to him because he would explode, you know, sometimes. And, uh, uh, you know, the, the thing about mental hospitals is that they don't, he did very well when he worked on the animal farm, when he had something to do. Or he went to the living museum in Creedmoor where he was able to paint and play music. They need activities too, you know? And, uh, he was a very complex and very perceptive person. He could find your weakness like within 30, a 30 minute ratio, you know, he'd, he'd find your weakness and, uh, and he could be quite generous. Not that he had that much to be generous with. Uh, he was a very good musician. And, uh, he just, I guess I learned a lot about human behavior with him and all the people around him. You had mentioned in an interview that, um, you had renovated your mother's home and then your brother burned it down. That's right. He burned down the house. Intentionally or accidentally? He never said the truth until later on. And then he said he, he put a cigarette. My mother was at her neighbor's house. And, uh. He wanted to see, and he left it on the couch. And he walked out. Because they have these compulsions. And, uh, and he just left it there. He didn't put it out. Uh, and, uh, you know, I, I had renovated the whole house with my dear friend, Brandon Cole. And, uh, it was after my dad died. It was something to help my mom, you know, recover from her grief. And between your father's temper and your brother's mental health problems. Yeah. Did you not only have to be vigilant all the time? Because there might be an eruption. Yeah. Did you have to, like, study your family, their expressions, to see when was an explosion coming? Either your father's temper or your brother's, you know, violence. Um, and if you did, like, was that helpful to being an, you know, helpful to being an actor? Because you have to study people and then reproduce the human nature. that you see around you. I, I, my father was in the war, so he had PTSD in World War II. He was in D-Day and got blown up and everything. And he was on a destroyer. It hit a mine, you know. They were in the front, the destroyers, and they were stuck there for like two or three days. So he had that. So him and my brother was not, it was not a great combination. And I was sort of the person who would calm things down. I'm the middle child. But I became like my mom's, you know, protector for a lot of my life growing up. And not that I, I chose to do that. I just did it. I guess you have that nature or you don't. But my mother and father were, they were sort of like the honeymooners, but it was as if maybe Charles Bukowski or Joe Orton, you know, wrote the honeymooners. But it had that dynamic because my mother was very, you know, dry with that and funny. But you learn how to diffuse the situation. And, you know, when I played, when I was younger and I played all these explosive characters and stuff, I understood the reality of that versus just the imaginative reality of that. I was, I saw a lot of violence growing up and I was in the middle of it a bunch of times. My guest is John Turturro. He's also in the series Severance. We'll hear more of our conversation after a break. So one of your breakthrough roles was in Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing. You played the racist son of Sal, the owner of the pizzeria. And Spike played Mookie, who is the pizza delivery guy. And there's like a kind of famous scene where Spike's saying to him, like, I don't understand how you can hate black people because like your favorite athletes are black, your favorite musicians are black. Like, how is this even possible? Right. It's a phenomenon that exists until to this very day. Absolutely. So racially and ethnically, what kind of like neighborhood, schools did you go to? I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood for the first six years of my life in Hollis, Queens. It was in a little, it was a little garden apartment. I had no white friends. My best friend was black. The guy who was the nerdy guy was black. The bully was black. And we had some white people on our block, but I didn't really have any friends my age that were white. And I think that had a huge, musically, friendship-wise, sense of humor-wise, had a huge influence on me. And when I moved to, to Rosedale, it was more of an Italian, Irish and somewhat Jewish neighborhood. And that was the first time I felt a kind of prejudice against like the color of my skin. Everyone thought I was a Puerto Rican. So I found it much more aggressive personally to me, even from people who were supposed to be from a similar background to me. And then later on I went to a school which was somewhat integrated PS38 and then I got bussed out because it was bussing to IS59, which was all black. It was a 90% black and 10% Jewish, the school. And that's where I learned to play basketball and made friends. But it was a very volatile time because it was the whole, you know, 1968 I'm black and I'm proud. James Brown was the beginning of Black Panther Pledge. And that was a whole, I had to, I had to learn to navigate that all over again. So my experiences growing up have sort of helped me, I think, navigate a multicultural world. And I don't feel comfortable being in an all white neighborhood. And Spike always laughs at me and goes, well, I know you're black and all this stuff, but I'm from like Sicily, which is a melting pot. You know, I have a lot of other things. Your family's from Sicily. Well, my mother's family is. Right. Yeah. My father's from Puglia. But I think that really bonded me and Spike because he grew up in an Italian neighborhood. And so. Yeah. I didn't know that about him. I thought he grew up in Bedford-Stuyvesant. No, he grew up in Cobble Hill mostly. Yeah. And his best friend was Italian. So he, it just was like, I was like, oh my God, this is like someone I know my whole life. And we're three weeks apart. And when he showed me the movie, I said, I know a lot of people like this. And I said, I'd rather play the racist guy because it's like, that's what it's about the movie. And it's, he doesn't have a Ku Klux Klan hood on him. He's just the guy who sells pizza, you know? And I worked at a pizzeria before that. And the guy wasn't that different from the guy I was playing. So the thing was to expose it in a way. So you're on the verge of turning 70. I deny that. And, um, it's the age in which I think a lot of actors assume, like it's going to good roles are going to be really scarce. And you've been getting like great roles. Yeah. You know, in the last few years, I am just like the night of and severance and you know, the only living pickpocket in New York, your new movie. I mean, these are, these are like terrific, terrific roles. Well, seventies, the new 50, I guess I listen, I try to stay in shape and, uh, keep my memory sharp. Uh, I think as an actor, if you get the, if you get the opportunity, you have a bigger toolbox of experience. Yeah. You, you, you, You can't jump over a fence as quickly or run as fast, but you can distill your experiences. Well, neither would your character. Right. That's right. But you can distill things and understand what stillness is and be really precise because your toolbox is much fuller. You've experienced so many things. And I feel very rich in that way right now. And when I see the only living pickpocket, I see a person who has lived a lot of life, you know, and that's me, too. John Turturro, what a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much. What a pleasure to talk to you. I really, really enjoyed it. John Turturro stars in the new film, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Our next guest, Jordan Firstman, is an actor, writer, and director who became known for his comedy. on Instagram during the pandemic. His feature film debut, Club Kid, premiered at the Cannes Film Festival earlier this year and will be in theaters this Friday. Jordan Firstman spoke with Fresh Air's Anne-Marie Baldonado. When we first meet Peter, the main character in Club Kid, it's 2016 and he's the life of the party. He's a New York City club promoter who not only promotes the parties, he owns them. Getting people in, keeping people out. Giving out drugs and taking them himself. His parties are filled with music, sex, drinks, ketamine, and confetti. It's a lot. And Peter loves being in the middle of it all. Fast forward 10 years and Peter is still promoting parties like he used to, but he's older, a little worn out, wanting to take a break, but still getting sucked back into the center of the scene. That changes when a 10-year-old British boy is brought to his Lower East Side rent-controlled apartment. The boy, Arlo, is the product of a hookup Peter doesn't remember. He doesn't even remember ever sleeping with a woman. But it turns out Arlo's mother has died and Peter, the boy's biological father, is the only family that he has left. Arlo's arrival leads Peter to reevaluate everything and to question if he's outgrown his old lifestyle and if leaving it would make him a better father and human. Firstman wrote for TV shows like Search Party, The Other Two, and Big Mouth. He became Instagram famous as a comedian during the pandemic. He starred on the TV show The English Teacher and played a fictionalized version of himself in the film Rotting in the Sun. He currently stars in the HBO comedy series I Love L.A., which is coming back for a second season. He also released an album called Secrets, inspired by actual secrets that strangers message. Let's start with a clip from the film Club Kid. Arlo, the 10-year-old, played by Reggie Absalom, has been living with Peter for a bit and shares that he knows about his mother's death. Peter, played by Firstman, is trying to comfort him. - You want the real answer? - Yeah. - Yeah, I basically like don't have any self esteem. - Well, what does that mean? - It means that I don't really like myself a lot of the time. But you know, actually recently, kind of since you got here, I've been feeling better about myself, which is, that's good. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Jordan Firstman, welcome to Fresh Air. Listening to your intro, it's a bit surreal to be here. I'm like, we were a Fresh Air family. Oh. And, you know, we'd be in the car listening to Terry Gross, and I'd be like, mom, put on something else, it's so boring. Like, let's listen to Nirvana. Now look at you. So, yeah, now look at, I mean, I think my parents will be gagged, so to speak. But, you know, then I became a Fresh Air fan when I got my senses together. And so it's really an honor to be here and actually a bit emotional. Oh, well, we're very happy to have you here. I want to ask about that scene we just heard. I like how in the scene, you know, your character, Peter, is trying to make the kid, Arlo, feel better by saying it's okay to cry for a week. And it kind of feels like Peter is also trying to convince himself that it's okay. Yeah, I think it's interesting to try to explain something in its simplest form to a kid. Because I think Peter has never, you know, he knows the way he feels and like he spirals about the way he feels. And, you know, when you're in a state of spiraling, whether you're coming down from drugs or or not, like when you're in that space, it's it's millions of thoughts about how you're not good enough and how you don't matter and how you're doing the wrong things. But to explain it simply to a kid, I think like that's maybe the first time Peter's just like, yeah, I don't like myself. And to maybe hear it out loud for him, I think, is kind of his first step forward. You cast Reggie Absalom as 10-year-old Arlo. He's so good in the film. Can you talk about writing from the son's perspective, like what he might be thinking or feeling after going through really difficult things in his young life? You know, I did a lot of kind of psychological research on traumatized kids. My sister's actually a social worker for his exact age in Minneapolis. So we talked a lot and she read every draft of the script and really helped me with Arlo. And, you know, she said a lot of times kids that have dealt with a lot of traumatic experiences do grow up a lot faster and they do tend to know how to try to make consistency work for them or try to make something that feels good work for them. And so I think that's what's going on with Arlo. I think he, he knows what is, is waiting for him back in London is bad. And I think there's this chance of hope with Peter, like, even though he's a mess, he's kind and he feels safe. I just wanted to make sure like he had, uh, his own kind of intentions and like, uh, motivations. And even as a 10 year old, like with what he's been through, I think he just, he yearns for safety and he yearns for consistency, and he yearns for consistent love. And I think he sees that Peter is capable of that. It seems like Peter is also looking for that. Yeah, I think Arlo teaches Peter to grow up, and I think Peter teaches Arlo to be a kid. Well, what inspired this story? When did you start writing Club Kid? I started in the winter of 2023, I believe. Um, and you know, I had had another project, a TV show in development that I really was like, I, I, I had always kind of categorized my projects, like my A projects. I put my whole soul into, and my B projects were like my fun idea projects. And, um, I had my A project and, and it was like seemingly moving forward at a network and my B project, I was like, oh, that's a fun idea. Me and a kid, like, I feel so inappropriate in my life that like, what would happen to my life if a kid showed up and uh then the a project didn't happen uh thank god actually no that it didn't and um you know i had to then find find my soul in in the fun project and i just had to kind of sit down and look within myself and i was you know around 32 ish at the time and i was like am i an adult like when is that gonna happen when am i gonna feel like adult I was partying too much. I was having these comedowns. I was having this self-hatred. And I was like, OK, there's there's there's a way to overlap these two stories. And, you know, and I wanted to make a delayed coming of age film about, you know, a gay guy in his 30s. And so that's that's kind of how it started. And then as you worked on it more, it still had that humor, but it maybe became darker and sadder. Yeah, I think like everything I do has like an undertone of sadness. And so that was always going to be there. It's like if I'm making it, it's going to be a little sad. But once I reframed it in my mind as a drama with funny stuff, instead of a comedy with dark stuff, yeah, it completely changed. And I felt like I could just actually live from a truthful place and be honest with myself and be honest with the story. a truthful place and be honest with myself and be honest with the story And I knew the jokes would be there because, you know, jokes are all around me. Jokes are always a part of my daily existence. And so, yeah, I think just leaning on the honesty and leaning on the drama is what, like, pushed the story forward. And then, you know, there's still a lot of jokes left in the movie, so you can imagine. We're listening to the interview Fresh Air producer Anne-Marie Baldonado recorded with Jordan Firstman. He wrote, directed, and stars in the new film Club Kid. We'll hear more of their conversation after a break. Let's get back to the interview our producer Anne-Marie Baldonado recorded with Jordan Firstman. He wrote, directed, and stars in the new film Club Kid, and he stars in the HBO comedy series I Love L.A. I read that you lived in Berlin. For some of the time when you were writing this and your time there kind of inspired it, specifically the gay club scene there. Can you talk about that and how that kind of informed Club Kid? Yeah, I just fell head over heels for this guy that I met in Berlin that became my boyfriend. And it was just like the most in love I had ever been. And, you know, he was he was a party boy in Berlin. And so I got really, really into his scene and his friends were amazing. amazing and like amazing people but it was yeah I was doing drugs from Thursday to Monday you know when I was in Berlin and you know even like trying while I was writing the TV show that didn't happen so you know when you're doing this marathon style partying like you start you know Thursday it's like oh chill dinner but there's cocaine and then Friday is like now we really party like a night at Berghain or a night and in in the club can feel like a lifetime and then it becomes Monday morning somehow Monday and Tuesday you spend you know in bed wanting to kill yourself and then you're like I have one day of the week to work Wednesday so I got to get a lot of work done on that Wednesday for people who don't know can you describe what Berghain club is in Berlin it's kind of like the pinnacle of a gay club culture yeah I mean it's a club that's that's been there for a long time and they really value queerness I think it's you know become way more mixed but I still do think they they value its roots in in queerness but I don't know they just have the best DJs in the world and and the best sound system in the world and there's different mazes and different places to have sex and and to do your substances and you know there's there's panorama bar on the top that's more kind of like house music something like a little more fun and then uh the main room is techno and and people really get down there it's like not not really encouraged to talk on that floor you kind of just dance um but yeah it's like it's a whole world it's a whole world inside that place and you know it's become a little bit of like a meme or a joke like oh getting into Berghain but like then like anyone who goes it's like yeah it still kind of is just that girl like they just do it right they care about the space the reason the the it's so hard to get into is because the people at the door are are curating the experience inside and they can they can really sniff out a vibe like if you belong there and you can wear as much black as you want in that line and you cannot smile and you can do all the right things but if they they can smell the vibe when you were getting into Berghain club what would you wear I would usually wear like gym shorts and either like a t-shirt or a white tank top or yeah just kind of like gay guy outfit like very very minimal gay guy outfit like fanny pack gym shorts sneakers and like uh like a windbreaker and a tank top very casual you didn't have to try that hard they just knew no they just knew I and I just I don't want to brag but I have never been rejected from Berghain ever I want to talk about how you how you made the club scene look in your film like how you portrayed gay nightlife in New York what was important for you to kind of convey because I feel like you ended up conveying like the joy of it like the pleasure of it but also the darkness of it and how did you sort of manage to do both yeah I think that was my exact intention I wanted to I wanted to show the highs and the lows because you you do have both I think uh it's not going to be like a like an oral history of like what it is to be gay but I think we as gay men specifically you know we put ourself in high risk behavior high risk and high reward I mean we really live and I think because we for so long we're not able to live I think you know we choose to live very hard and love very hard and I think that's what I wanted to show the highs and the lows because you and that comes at a cost sometimes and yeah so I wanted to show the beauty and the joy and the pain in my life and and the culture around me you shot the movie with film and that gave the movie kind of a look that connects it to other films about New York were there certain films that inspired you that you kind of wanted club kid to kind of be in conversation with the 70s are just are just my favorite era a film ever like I need to be a little bit more knowledgeable about like what exactly went down with this I know the studios collapsed and then and then like you know they were just taking more chances on our tours and so you know you were having these movies with you know a bit of a budget that felt so creative and so free and you know we had you know Altman and Cassavetes and and Paul Mazursky and and uh Scorsese and it was just I mean was happening and it felt so alive what was happening then and so i've always just loved 70s cinema and in new york specifically so yeah i mean of course we were we were looking at um you know after hours and and king of comedy and scorsese's early work but yeah so i just i just loved the texture of 70s new york and so we really tried to also we shot only only in places that felt like old new york that's why we shot in chinatown and lower east side because it feels kind of unchanged and soho and some some streets in soho and we tried to shoot uh with streets uh shoot with uh shooting streets with no cars so it kind of had that older older feel to it but it was yeah it was very important for us to you know capture a nostalgic new york that you know might not really exist anymore but then you know we have the modernity of the club and for those club scenes you did shoot in real clubs and real parties we did we did i mean we have these real parties where people are really partying i'll say um and uh and we were allowed in those spaces because of you know just my involvement in the last decade of of clubbing and having friends and there was a community feeling uh happening in the film that made made the queer underground new york rave scene like really want to show up because they're like they're like they're like they're like they're they they trusted that what we were making was gonna be uh a positive depiction because of its honesty i think and i think they just i think i was in the perfect point in my career and i don't think i'll ever be able to do this again i think it was in i was in the perfect spot because i were like they knew my work enough to know that i was not going to make something horrible but i was also not big enough that it would like felt like i was you know coming in and taking advantage well you wanted to get it right too you didn't want to make a movie about the scene and have it not feel authentic no i mean that would that would be the worst thing i could have ever done it was like the most important thing to me and like no shade to background actors but like they don't look like club kids they just don't so you know i we had to have a certain amount just like rules but you know every we kind of hit them in the back and uh yeah we got a lot of just a lot of people showed up for this movie in the community now you grew up on long island did you have a very suburban long island childhood i would say so yeah it was i was i was in kind of a picturesque town like kind of gilmore girls vibes even called north port and my parents were both journalists at newspaper my mom ran the health and science section my dad ran the sports section very kind of 90s rom-com vibes and uh yeah i had i had two older siblings twins uh we had a dog named molly a cat named jasmine that they weren't getting along so like my mom said she like gave her to someone good but i kind of don't trust her you got an agent when you were 14 i read did you go to new york and get an agent or did you start calling people like how did you do that and what kind of actor did you want to be yeah i remember like dragging my parents to an open call for lion king to play simba and like which is famously like oh was always like a person of color like there was never a white simba ever and i went to the audition there was like 500 black kids in me and i was like i think i get i But I don't know. I had this like blind confidence and my parents were like, I don't know what's going on. But yeah, I found I don't remember how I found found that agent, but she would start to send me on auditions. And and, you know, when I was 16, I got really close to being the lead in Brighton Beach Memoirs on Broadway. And I was going into the city all the time to audition for acting stuff as a kid. And my parents were very supportive of it. But I just I don't know. I just I knew what I wanted very early. I think it's funny now that, you know, I'm I am where I am and, you know, filmmaking has become the thing for me. But for the first couple of years, it was definitely acting. And you were very much into musical theater. What musicals were important to you? And did you want you wanted to perform in musicals or did you want to write musicals? I hid for so many years that I like musicals. Like, I mean, like, I just thought it was like the least cool thing. And I still do believe it is the least cool thing. But I can also admit told two truths that I do also enjoy it. But I just I like the good ones, though. Like, I like Sondheim. Fancy musicals. Some artists transform the art form. You know, I'm not going to see, like, I don't know, whatever, like, recreation of a movie that's like that. Going. You know, that's not my type of musical. But, you know, I became obsessed with Sondheim when I was like, yeah, probably 12 and like obsessed with company. I'm like, I like related to Bobby and company, like a 35 year old single bachelor in the 70s. I'm like, I am Bobby. Like, I like. Yeah. Like someone to hold me too close. Someone to sit in my chair. Someone to ruin my sleep. Like, I'm like a being alive. Like, that's me. And but also I'm Elaine Stritch. And actually, I was. I dressed up as Elaine Stritch for Halloween for three years in a row from ages 14 to 17. So, yeah, I loved it. I live for the stuff. And, you know, I've gone through many, like, many loves of art. And like my, you know, then I got really into Keith Haring when I was 17. And like that became my whole identity. And, you know, then I then, you know, Mazursky came at 21. And then that was my thing. And so, yeah, I think I've I've I've looked I've looked to like certain artists. More than art forms, I would say, like certain artists have really changed my life. Mike White, when I watched Enlightened, that was a game changer. Frank Ocean, like Tyler, the creator, SZA, Lana Del Rey, Amy Winehouse, like, like is really artists who who shaped me rather than art forms. You've talked about how you became independent in your teens. Was being an actor or trying to be an actor part of that? I think so. I think I liked the idea. I like always again, it's like I I think company and like I guess watching Woody Allen movies like I wanted to be in the 70s and be a bachelor on the Upper East or West Side. Like that is what I felt I was born to do. And so I think going into the city by myself with my with my backpack and, you know, go like going to auditions alone. And then, you know, I would like crash at friends houses that I knew from summer camp. And, you know, I convinced my parents, I didn't have school on Fridays for two years and they were going through their own divorce. So I don't think they were listening to anything at all. So they believe me somehow. And my teachers would be like, girl, you need to come to school on Fridays. And I'm like, I think I do. I think you should check the attendance. I think I'm there. But I would I would take the train from where my high school was in Siosset to to the city on Thursday, stay at my friend Ben's house on on the Upper West Side. From Thursday to Monday morning, go back, go to school for a couple of days and then and then do it again. So I was really like, yeah, I was living I was living a very independent life. My parents did not know where I was from Thursday to Monday. Well, so then did acting or, you know, life in New York become a way to escape what was going on at your house? Probably. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know. I think I think that's another part about part of the film. Like that in that conversation that you played, I think I didn't like know my parents were people and I feel like they kept so many secrets from me. And like I, you know, I for my bar mitzvah, my parents were like, you could either have a big party or you can have a party at the house and go and we'll take you on a trip anywhere in the world. And so I was very cultured at a very early age and I chose the trip. And so I chose Italy. And, you know, of course, took. Like four years to get the trip together. So by the time we were doing the trip of a 17 and like all of a sudden my dad like had work and couldn't come and it just became me, my mom, my sibling and my mom doesn't drink. And the first night we get to Italy, she does one half a shot of limoncello and immediately says she's divorcing my dad. And so obviously the trip was ruined. We like left early like my it was like the worst trip ever. But, you know, I didn't have any indication of what. Was going on and like there were some factual things that were really bad happening and I was just so in the dark. And then I was so mad at my mom for so many years and then so mad at my dad for so many years. I just like never knew that story. I never like I never knew them as people. And so I think I was definitely just trying to create my own life of of me having an honest experience and like living too. I was like going in the city and like hooking up with guys. Too. You know, I was like interested in being an adult. I felt like I from the age of like 15 on, I wanted to be an adult and start my life. And then how soon after that did you move to L.A.? I did like a year and a half and in college and in Ohio and and I dropped out to do to do a play in New York. And I had a really traumatic year in New York that I don't want to get into so much. But a lot of bad stuff happened. And. Yeah, I was just like, I can't live here. And I, you know, I'd never been to L.A. Before I had I didn't know anyone there and I didn't know how to drive. So, you know, I learned how to drive in two weeks, like passed my driver's test, like within an inch of my life and and, you know, just just moved to L.A. And I was like, I'm going to I'm going to, you know, like why people move to L.A. I'm going to reinvent myself and and start a new life. And that's what I did. Now, in club. Kid Peter has to figure out how to hold on to the parts of his old life that matter while making room for something new. Is that something you've been dealing with yourself? I've heard you say that it's difficult for you sometimes to leave the party, like literally and kind of figuratively. And I'm wondering where you are with that. Yeah, I am just so proud of this work, I'm so proud of this movie, and so I'm just focused on getting the movie out there because this movie does. Touch people, and I think it touches a lot of a lot of different kinds of people that I wasn't expecting. And, you know, we went to tell you, right. And I watched seventy five year old men, white men like walk out of the theater weeping. And I was like, oh, OK, that was not what I had planned for. But then it is there now. So now it's kind of my job to like, you know, a seventy five year old man isn't going to see like the premise of like club. Kid and go to the movies. So I have to figure out how to get it to them. And then after that ends, I need to really recalibrate and think like, what do I want next for my life and my art? And what do I what do I want to talk about him? And, you know, where where is my head at? I've been nonstop working for about three years now without any breaks, like really not like even a week. And so I think I need a little bit of a break. And. And just time to, like, really think about where I am and where I want to go. Jordan Firstman, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Jordan Firstman spoke with Fresh Air producer Anne-Marie Boldenado. Firstman wrote, directed and stars in the new film Club Kid. It's in select theaters this weekend. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Theresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger, our technical director. Director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.