Best Of: Horror Interviews

There's no place to escape to this is the last talk on the left You guys are gonna love this one I don't fucking care what you think okay. This is a big deal for us We talked about a lot of fucking people this year a lot of people this year last couple of years And we doing it more. Yeah, well officially we're finally actual horror interviews Yeah, welcome last five guys and a lot of ladies and gentlemen my name is Marcus Parkes I'm here with the interview boys Henry Zabrowski and I look at this I can't even It can't even believe who we got to talk to this year. We got to talk to you the filipo brothers Ryan Kugler Zach Kragger Kane Parsons Stephen King Joe Hill Robert Anglin and you're about to hear selections from all of them Yeah, that's right. Thank you very much everybody for supporting us over the last head like we're on break right now And you know we're we're taking like a little bit of a you know snows We get a little bit of a cs to go on on but we're gonna be back talking about horrible things for the rest of your fucking lives No worry next week. It's gonna come back big and it's come come back hard Are we gonna put back in the Robert England interview that he actually changed his name from Robert France? I don't know he said the lawyers were still kind of fighting with the lawyers and the publicist people so I don't know. Yeah, okay. All right. All right. Well It's fact You know hopefully it doesn't sue us for defamation but here and listen to some of these incredible clips Make sure you tell Robert France last podcast and left loves him. That's right This is the kind of juice we need Welcome to last podcast and left. We have a very special episode here. We have two of one of my newest Truly favorite Movie creators, what you guys are doing is fucking out of this world the new movie bring her back is coming out It's now it's out now right? Yes Bring her back the directors of talk to me as well. Danny Philipo and Michael Philipo welcome Thank you A lot of studio audience here. We have two people in the back here. Yeah, we oh yeah, the robbers are producer We got the gals making sure that you don't say anything too horrible our goal is to make you say They're in a constant battle So before we get started I just want to say I I love horror movies horror movies are probably my favorite genre of movies. So I have been Terrified to watch talk to me and I haven't watched it. I specifically did not watch this movie because I'm like This scares the shit out of me. I want nothing to do with this. I watched it last night with my wife and Fuck you Why can't you sit there and see that What is wrong with you? I'm sorry to your wife doing I don't know what's wrong with me Yeah, I don't know you know you just you've got to get the doctor's out somehow yeah, and then this morning I woke up 7 a.m Brighten early to see bring her back perfect breakfast film I'm trying to sell people honestly see them at night Like get in at three o'clock in the goddamn afternoon and just experience it sober I'm watching this movie. I had to pause it halfway through. I'm losing my fucking mind. All right, I'm going nuts I can't deal with this god damn fucking movie It's too early in the morning. All right. I got a beautiful dog. I'm like. I love you. Please kiss me All right, and then so I'm like all right. I pause he's a man. I'll kiss her to the dogs. I go make oh, yeah, he gets my vibe. Oh, yeah, you guys love it So I get so I go and I go make my breakfast and I start like cutting my strawberries and I got scared of the knife in my hand Yes, because of the movie that you miss like I was scared of myself Because of what you guys did. I thought I would have been breakfast. I'm actually just jealous Now why haven't you bought your dog in I miss my dog and I haven't pated a dog in quite a while Oh, you gotta bring your dog next time. What's your dog's name my dog? I got a new dog named Harley. I'm gonna kill it She's 13. You don't have to wait long Okay, how do you guys because you guys made like stunt vids right like you guys are doing how does it get like was it just a natural progression of filmmaking from there? Well, it was always that was always the YouTube stuff was just practicing but to become filmmakers That was always the goal always the aim and you know speaking of stunts Michael couldn't be listed as one of the directors at the start of insurance for bring her back Because he was in Detroit having deaf matches What does that mean? It's like an extreme form of professional wrestling where they use like light tubes and barbed wire and real weapons And they cut each other up for real. It's like an extreme performance art blood sport Well, I don't have documentary on it. Yeah, I was like I want to be in it You look okay They're Australians. Yeah, they're like naturally immune to certain types of damage Yeah, luckily we brought a barbed wire back Listen before we pull out Danny Moore and these films. I need you to eat a light bulb You gotta see it. It's visceral. It's bloody. It's good. It's nice What was the like so just like you do that just for the thrill of it? Or is it one of those you just love physical action? Both I think we've been obsessed with death match wrestling since little kids. Yeah, we used to do it with our friends unfortunately But we had a big appearance that would literally not let the kids hang out of us No way. Yeah, because we were so we were delinquents. We were actual delinquents. You just threatened to kill my dog It was out of envy you You guys had fun charges though. I looked at you Wikipedia pages. Your charges are fun. Yeah We had a few fun charges. Yeah, they're not nothing bad like really like nothing does this stuff that honestly just excited me about you Yeah, underwater cars. We got Michael got arrested for so did I which was even my idea and I was a video You should he had an underwater car made and he didn't want to drive it I was filming a Michael's terrible recording excuse for everything Michael's so bad recording You say bad recording he would like we were like do a scene and I tried to be in the videos I tried to be in something and his footage is like out of focus. There's like punched it in a weird way It's like dude. Just pointed at me in film it. Yes, but you were correct to be scared to get in an underwater car Well, no, I got in the underwater car. I was filming in there. Okay. Yes. I was in there. No, you weren't in there You know why there's lies being thrown around I went and then the cops came and found you while you were in the middle of shooting ready that the idea? No, no It was like so the video came out and then suddenly like a year later. I would got don't you got arrested? It wasn't a year later. It was like a couple of months to anything but getting arrested over making artists one of my favorite things in the face of the planet. It was so good But I actually got arrested for pretending to be Michael By then the rest of the Michael got arrested for the art. Yeah They said I was like a wanted fella like I was fled the country I was like I haven't been hiding or anything and then I put the evidence on you But it's like a year-long lawsuit. What was the charge Driving recklessly driving dangerously driving without a license driving without a seatbelt driving A car that's not or you're not a merit What happened without littering we we got no no not literally I've got one of the in the bad one. They're pretty easy on littering actually No, but it was a big thing in the end that I got off scot free because I didn't I wasn't actually driving dangerously No, we actually it was a stunt before I was a status car. It was a stunt Please say that they were going to have to recreate the underwater car to prove it was dangerous Why don't we go for a race boys All right, let me do this these guys don't know who everybody knows this is the man who made black panther This is the man that made creed that made me audibly weep In a theater I quite cried masculine big fat masculine tears you got Vester Stallone nominated for a second Oscar I mean, I mean, I think he got he got his own nominate you know Sure, we know how it is we know how it goes nice we know But the reason why you're hit those movies are too important and good for us to talk about This is something that we're talking about that is extremely amazing this film Sinners that you have made it's coming out April 18th you have come down to the horror world You're making an extremely big thick ass horror movie that are people going to love and say thank you so much for talking to us people like Sinners ruled I appreciate that you guys man that that that means the world. I love the genre You got a sound I'll come down to it off like I was coming up to it, you know, I'm saying like like um Because when I was in you know before even with the film school and my first my first short films I would make we have Um, we have we have horror elements to him Uh, but I didn't feel like I was I didn't feel like I was good enough to make that to make that step yet man and um Uh, I kind of got away from it. What do you mean by like not? What do you mean by not good enough? We actually watched your movie locks It's beautiful film like I'm talking before locks bro like like I always make this stuff before that you know Like locks. I think it was like my second year of graduates. No, my second semester of graduate school But I was always making shorts when I was in undergrad when I first learned learned that I wanted to make movies in and and and I made a couple things I see you know um that that you know one of one of them actually was the thing that got me recommended for For a fruitville um, but nobody's nobody will ever see all those movies It wasn't it wasn't it wasn't legal for us to submit all those movies to festivals or anything like that And I weren't good enough But I've been in love with the genre of man and wanted to make something in that zone since I learned I wanted to make movies. I was my first instinct, but then I made locks, locks was the first thing I could submit to festivals, based on the rule of the school and ended up making things more and that tonality. But this was kind of a homecoming for me that that folks who really know me who are around, you know, you know, I have this type of this type of passion for horse cinema. Man, what are you favorite horror movies? Yeah, we need to not just what inspired centers, but what inspires you in general, it's kind of. Yeah, man, my favorite horror movies, man, I would say number one is the thing. Yes. Now you consider that horror over sci-fi? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I consider the thing, Cosmic Horror, you know, it definitely has science fiction elements as well. I must tell you, bro, even though I love genre cinema, I don't like the concept of genre. Sure. It annoys me, like having that, having that, having a classified thing, especially like after, after making this movie, you know, because I can re-sertion, you know, the movie does with a lot of things, but it's drama action horror, it's everything. But you're talking something. It's like hereditary was the first time I'm ever seeing as an adult seeing a movie and I was like, horror is drama set on fire, right? 100% I saw hereditary is a big one for me. I love that movie. Yeah, and so when I want centers, the first thing I thought of was truly refreshing about it is because yes, what you're saying, I see what you're saying, yeah, it's a horror movie because of the elements that are within it, but all of the stuff feeds what the movies about. Yes, yes, no 100% like the thing is, I always work from the standpoint of knowing what my worst fear is as an artist, and I'm always kind of dealing with that in my movie, you know what I'm saying? And in this movie, I dealt with all of them, like all of my worst fears are in this, I just dumped them all in there, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, and what I was saying about genre was like, you know, studying for this movie, I was studying Delta Blues music, and I discovered like, I discovered that that for a long time when the music business was like first commodified in this country, you know, genre. It itself was a tool of racism, you know, like if a black person sang a song, and then a white person sang the same song, you know, they would put those two songs into two different genres, you know what I'm saying? Like the black song would be called a race record, and then in the white person singing the song, that might be called bluegrass. Or like exactly, exactly, and you know, the music industry, you know, came before the film industry, you know, you know, I'm saying like it had, it's an older industry. So so a lot of the film business, it follows the whims of music, because it's an older industry, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, and that that tradition is what causes like certain genres to be kind of like get a lot, you know what I'm saying? Like this genre is beneath this genre, the horror movie is beneath the the the costume drama, you know, you know, I'm saying like this thing. So whenever I whenever I hear it with this one, and I'm trying to define it, or we're not trying to like classify a movie like Rosemary's Baby, you know, you know. What is I was thinking about that? What exactly would you call it? Yes, it is horror elements, but it's like a juicy drama. Yeah, exactly like like right. So so is it so so you realize you realize it becomes you know, like they had this ridiculous rule. At the movie and tear gas like called the one drop rule. Like for for for for human beings, right? And and it's kind of time when we're never trying to try to put the, you know, when they try to stick a part type on type of humanity. They said, oh, if you got one drop of black blood, now that makes you black, you know, you know, you know, I mean, which is, which is, which is so absurd. When you when you when you hear this, but it's also, you know, you think about that with movies. Just like, hey, you got you got one, you got a couple of horror scenes. Now it's a horror film. You know, you know, it's like and it's like, well, it's Rosemary's Baby. Like, like, how are we going to talk about this movie? Because because the vast majority of you know, as a husband, a husband and wife talking to their neighbors, you know, you know, you know, I mean in that. Yeah, you know, you know, and in and so so so so for me, you know, my favorite horror movies that they all are going to have element of like a question mark. I like, you know, is that a horror movie? Because because because look, I'll tell you straight up, like, I think Steven Spielberg has created some of the most horrific images known to man, like, like, you know, with jaws. Raiders of the lost dark, whatever. Raiders that they ain't that ending bro, like what happens to the dough and he pops the thing, but but also meant a movie like Jurassic Park, like, like, like, like the, like some of those velociraptor sequences, um, the open ends of last forever sequence when their guide is eating. Yeah. Uh, uh, and by something in a box that you can't see, you know, or or the T-Rex sequence when he is just ran and night in the cup is rippling and and, you know, he's coming a bit of fucking eyes coming by that coming by the, you know, coming by the car. And it's breathing on the glass. The the the velociraptor upwind in the door. Yeah, in the quals on the kitchen on the kitchen tile. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, like, you know, it's just so scary. It literally scares dogs. Like so much footage of it, like, scaring dogs. So like, you know, how scary dogs know it's scary. Yeah, dog, your dog's not fucking with it. You know, like, make it that thing off. I am more impressed with you. The more I look at your stuff. Now I'm talking about, I'm gonna talk about your body. I'm talking about your work because I've looked at this and the stuff is very interesting. And it's also the, you know, the kids like it. Yeah, but also I like it. I dived in pretty hard last night. It's wild. This is very interesting. I'm so excited to have you here. The filmmaker, Paul Oxellals for the internet. And soon to be for the silver screen. We have cane pixels of the back rooms. Okay, a cane Parsons. Yes. Hey guys. Or just. Yeah, I'm just a guy. I don't, I don't have a name. Oh, yeah, I like this. I look at you. You're in, you're fluorescent light. You look like you're in the back rooms. Yes. Right now. And you're frightening me. Thank you. This is all. That's what I try to do. I'm really afraid it's going to be one of those where I'm going to blink. I'm going to be in front of one of those weird grates. Very frightening. It's really honestly extremely frightening. I, but you create it. Well, you worked with the idea, which I guess was sort of a collective idea, right? Would they say an internet urban legend. But more so it was kind of like a series of kind of spooky images. Yeah, I don't know. Okay, so just like the, and stop me if you've heard this before, or maybe this is good for the audience. It originated in a very unconventional way, this idea of the back rooms where it initially started as basically somebody took a photo of really just what look. I mean, many of you have probably seen the original back rooms photos, it's just kind of an off yellow dingy. On renovated backspace with like 50 different wallpapers all clashing against each other, like horrible ugly fluorescence with like stain ceiling tiles and someone took that it ended up on 4chan. No one knows where it came from just given the nature of the site. It's all anonymous. And that ended up getting reposted to another board along with a caption that again another anonymous user added, which basically outlined this premise, which is like the one that most people know, like the one that you typically were originally accompanied that image, which is. I somehow don't have it memorized verbatim, but it's essentially saying like if you no clip out of reality in the wrong areas, which for those who don't know is like a gaming slash 3d design term where if you just like move through like a phase through a physical object, if you no clip out of reality in the wrong areas, you will end up in the back rooms where it's just this infinite. Never ending basically just what you see in that image, it's like you're stuck in the back rooms of a empty seers forever. Yeah, it reminds me. I was going to show you called your pretty face is going to hell and it is sort of similar in the aspect of the. I almost commercial hell scape you go to where it's a series of almost cubicles looks almost the liminal spaces, yeah, liminal spaces. That's the terms popped up. Yes, it looks like society at one point was thriving and now it's dying and we're stuck fending through what's left is what I kind of felt this thing. Yes, yeah, it's all fucked up and super scary. Lots of dark imagery. I fucking love what you're doing. I think it's great. You're the original short film blew my mind. Yeah, just in terms of realizing it was found footage hard. Well, I do, but I also was really impressed with the digital build. Yeah, I appreciate that. That's really where a lot of my background is. I've been picking away at an initially started with just after effects. so I would use some like element 3d for those who. dabble and know what that is. But around the time, during the pandemic is when I had a bunch of free time, I was still in high school. I mean, the pandemic hit when I was in my freshman year of high school. And in that time, which, I mean, for me, just given my age, that feels so long ago now, because just time goes so slowly right now. It's starting to pick up. It's definitely going very fast right now. The past two years. So much of life, it's just like, oh, that was like six high schools, you know, I've been alive for like eight presidents. That's, that's something I'm seeing more and more. And it's something I've had like a fixation on for a long time to this accelerating passage of time. But with that, I, I initially got my start on YouTube, like, well, I don't want to say my start because I'd been around for a while. I started my channel in 2015 doing like Minecraft Let's Plays and like whatever, like eight year old kids do on the internet. But this is like, you were already being like, I'm going to make stuff. I'm going to make that. Yeah, I've had that instinct for a while. It just kind of, it wasn't as defined until I would say around middle school and high school when I started really pushing out CGI driven, like science fiction horror films. And that led to I did this little mini web series, I guess I would call it a series. It's more like a, I don't know, an extended art piece of little vignettes from the Attack on Titan series. If you yes, very cool stuff. I was those last night. I love them, dude. You Thank you. And he never he has no idea what the hell attack. No idea. But I was very captivated by what you created. I appreciate it. Yeah, that was like the, um, that was like the first. I just wish that you could even understand what a breakthrough it is for this hamhawk of a man. Yes, to embrace attack on Titan fan made content. Well, that's how good. That's it. That's what you did. You broke, you made this man on think about anime. Yeah, man. It's usually just ham and, you know, I'm so sorry dogs. Yeah, it's like tits and dogs. That's all he watches. Well, that's an honor, truly. Um, yeah, with that, it's, it was really my attempt to like take, I was more of a reader than a watcher of the anime. I read the manga and like I tried to take the feeling that I got from that body of work that I felt like was kind of lost in the anime and lost in like the, the broader community where it, when reading it, it feels a lot more gloomy and, and really quite. The anime injects sort of like an epicness to it, almost. Yes. I never really personally connected with. So I just tried to like come back from that and just make my own little thing that had that feeling to it. And it really took off. Um, that's what like took my channel from I think it was like 20,000s, which is not an instinctive and insignificant. Oh, it's great. It took it from 20,000 to 200,000. So it, um, that's what really made me realize like YouTube could be a viable way forward. And that was the beginning of 2021. And then the later that year on Thanksgiving, I decided to, because I had been, um, I was familiar with the backrooms as a meme, like since 2019, since it first surfaced. Uh, and it wasn't huge back then, but it definitely over the years into the pandemic sort of permeated, made its way around everyone. Oh, the liminal space thing took over. 2020. Yeah. Yeah. It did. And it's sort of, although reviewing trends, not as much as they did in 2022. Um, but it sort of bled around everywhere. Everyone was kind of vaguely aware of it. Um, they probably saw some things on, uh, I'm not on TikTok, but, but TikTok is where a lot of this stuff kind of meldened together. Uh, well, you just interested or did what was it about it that struck a chord with you? I think I would. Okay. So on a few fronts, I was never the biggest, like, diehard liminal space fan in quotes, whatever that means. Um, I, I would definitely, like, it's such a funny concept of like, uh, I'm a huge liminal space fan. I'm just like empty room. Oh, you're a liminal space fan. Uh, name four liminal spaces at your faith. Believe me, that's a thing. That's a thing. I, I have been very online for the past couple years. And I've seen a lot of people in this space and believe me, some people, uh, know, like, the exact hex codes of every pixel of every image of, uh, into a train station. Wait until you find about the, uh, about the ball. Um, yeah, but continue. I'm sorry. Uh, so those videos, like, videos of, like, liminal spaces with eerie music or, like, Minecraft music, playing over them, like nostalgic slash creepy slash whatever. Uh, I would get those on my, uh, YouTube page every now and then they, now and again, over the course of like 2020, 2021, that period, which is, um, really not a ton of time. But those soaked into my psyche, they were alluring for reasons that were hard to explain. And I think that's what most people felt. Like the whole idea is that it kind of connects with you on a very unconscious or at least like, it resonates, but you can't quite explain why. And that's why people find it so interesting. Like now it's my shit. I fucking hate one horror movie over explains. Like, don't explain it. It's better a mystery. And that's why your shit freaks me out because I'm watching it. And I'm like, there's no rhyme or reason to any of this. It's just like, I mean, maybe there is, and I'm an idiot, which just happens to me. There is, but it's, yeah, it's buried. When you do that when, because we were, we're marking upon your ability to create dread in a very, because that's what the little spaces do, right? That's the whole thing is that it's a unfinished. It's the valley. It's uncanny. It's a weird place. It's where things drift in between. Obviously, we're all kind of, but what you did, like, can you actually talk to me about the filmmaking process of working in a fully digital world like that? Because I'll tell you, Skinner Meringue wishes it was the back. Oh my God. The whole time I was watching it. I mean, this is our opinion, not yours. I wish I could commentate. I haven't seen Skinner Meringue. Uh, don't don't do it. Keep working. Keep doing what you're doing. Watch it. You don't know why you even talking to us. Get back to our shit. I can't watch it now. Yeah. I mean, that reaction is pretty intense. It is. That's why people like it. But what do you, what do you think is like, what's your little trick? What's a check? So blender. I use blender. It's a free software. I use that for all my 3D visuals. I work on just this one laptop. I mean, if you see my workspace, it's a standing desk with this one laptop. Uh, that's, that's it. Um, I mean, I have some cameras as well. But only in recent years, have I sort of picked those up from like the money that YouTube stuff has made. Average budget for the stuff I make is like, maybe $10 to $0 beyond like the starting cost of the laptop itself. And more recently, I've been using like overseas render farms because it's been getting pretty intense, uh, turning stuff out in a timely manner. But, uh, if, let me think like what the, I would say creatively, like the way I did that first backroom short, it was more funny enough considering how it's like the thing I'm most known for now. It was originally just kind of like a palette cleanser exercise I did for myself, where I was weird. All that shit is. It's always, it always seems to happen that way. Yeah. Um, uh, I was tired from doing the attack and Titan videos felt like I had exhausted that. I was looking at some liminal space images just thought to myself because I've always had a very strong personal relationship with just like locations and buildings. And I mean, it's not like a hugely stated thing. But you know, like, I guess maybe it's being sentimental or maybe it's just having appreciation for the way design can affect emotion and like the flow of human traffic and things like that. But those things have always just been like underlying themes in my life. And so I think that's probably why liminal spaces and whatever you want to call it connect with me so much. It's sort of like, you appreciate a living room. You appreciate a kitchen. You appreciate a bedroom, but you don't usually appreciate like the hallway going there. It feels like it's almost like if you're thinking of these as people, they're like the people who don't get any credit for upholding the whole infrastructure of, uh, human civilization in a way, which is like such a weird way to humanize it. But that's kind of the feeling that I got. And I mean, you can take that for like abandoned places to like places that it feels like that place wants to be maintained and remains convinced that it's just rotting. So it's kind of the same feeling. But I looked at that original background image thought, can I evoke the same emotion in a video form? Because I haven't seen any videos really of like all these are all stationary images. What if I tried to remake capture this feeling in blender? Did that posted a little teaser to Instagram? Because it was just going to be like a 15 second shot initially. People liked it. And then from there, I decided to just make a whole short around that one shot. It's it's the shot of if you remember it, um, the chair flying and hitting the wall. That was the first ever one I did. And I never like redid it or anything. I just left that in and built the rest of the short and both ends around it. Um, and, and then it did very well. I did not expect it at all. I expected it to majorly underperform. And from there, I, I, I, I can get more into the technical stuff. Like, sorry, I have a tendency to go a little off rails with this, but that's why we, that's the purpose of this. Please treat us like total morons. We're more on this. And, and like, and I want to learn everything about what you're doing because not only is it incredibly successful, but it fucking shook me to my core last night. Yeah. He got really deep. And so I think it's amazing. I love, and I kind of, if I'm catching what, what I'm, what, what you're saying here is you liked the liminal thing and you saw it and you're like, I can fucking do that. And then you did and you nailed it. And they were kind of like, I'm, you know, it reminds me of like, it's not necessarily what you are want to do with the rest of your life. I'm guessing here. I'm guessing here. You know, but you fucking, you're better at it than anyone else. And it reminds me a lot. And this is a crazy comparison. But how fucking Bob Dylan started. He wasn't a protester, but he's like, he's was listening to the protest music. He's like, I can write better protest music than that and then became one, you know, and then became the best at it, you know, and it's like, and so that's what I'm kind of sensing from you and what you're doing right now is terrifying. But I'm curious, does it scare you your art or do you just find it cool, you know, it's kind of like where what makes with I kept thinking of the whole time and watching. Like, are you just sitting behind a computer, like, freaking out, or are you just enjoying it? That's happened before. It's more the, and also that Bob Dylan comparison is quite high praise. But, but the making of it has kind of recently become more technical, I would say, as it becomes more of a job, that's something I've been thinking about. And every now and then there'll be a project where it does feel more fluid and more alive in a way where it's kind of like an interacting with a thing outside myself. That can be said very heavily for the series I did after back room. Well, I'm still doing back rooms, but it's kind of the movie deal has caused the YouTube end of it to kind of pause. But I'm all of that started to pick up like right now in my own life. I don't know when this podcast will go out, but like this is it's coming back to my life now and hopefully back to YouTube in the near future. But the series they did after that was called the oldest few. I would consider that my best work to date, probably more than back rooms. But it's, it's the mall one that I made a tiny hint at earlier, which I can talk about in a moment because it's the one I'm. The production of that is probably the most interesting to talk about. We just talked about it. It was why yeah, we just watched it. It's fucking awesome. They don't need any introduction. They are the scum dogs of the universe squad. We don't need any, but we want a better one than that. Quar international rock and roll sensation. Yes, from the other galaxies of the universe. That's right. We're come dogs for the scum dogs. Fucking dick. It's the only way. Yeah, he was dirty dude. I want to say. You ever guys thought about Botox, like you guys thought about great. What are you talking about? You're thinking about like, do you ever want to keep up with the Jones's like, does Instagram make you jealous? No, I just need a dentist. This shit really hurts. I'm looking for a dentist. I don't have you ever thought about it. Yeah, yeah. They keep saying it. They keep saying it. But honestly, you won't take you like like you've got type three. I still got my feet. I just didn't know whether or not there's any pressure for the unrealistic beauty standards for you guys now. Because you guys are obviously happy with I'm happy with myself. I'm content in my own skin. But there's a lot of pressure. You know, you're absolutely right though. There's an unfair standard of beauty that as a woman in the business. I have to ask you know, nobody asks asked just back how old he is. No, but that's the first question they ask me. Look at me. And then look at me. Well, you're the lead singer. Look at me. You're the one who wins to funny. Yeah. And then pigs like you ask me if I've had Botox. Yeah. I just want our audience to understand that not everything that says appears it does on social media. And then when they see you and they look up to you and they think that that's like that's what I want to strive for and be. I don't want them to understand. There's a whole process to that. That's right. You can't get this. It's not an Instagram filter. No, there's a lot of I use a lot of filler. So welcome to last podcast and left and we have a very special person on this guy. Honestly, what's funny about this man is that not only is he become on his way to becoming an extremely powerful man in Hollywood. He's becoming a legitimate and crazy director. The used man started from the humble humble beginnings of sketch comedy. Oh, don't say it. Just like us. Just like our shit filled lives. He pulled through. He pulled himself up from the swamp and he made it to the big time. Why you think you better than me? Yeah. He's not you fucking tough. He fucking down. You know, nice, which a fancy clear glasses. This is the director of the new hit weapons and the former hit current hit barbarian. And one of the Lord Creatures says of whitest kids you know, Zach Krikker. Thank you for being here. I'm so thrilled to be here. I love the show and it's what it's a treat. Thank you so much. Henry, have you talked about how you came in to help me with barbarian? Only little little pieces that I came in and I because I didn't even know what the full extent of my voice was used. Well, sadly, it wasn't. God, it's fine. It was very kind of you to help, though, because what was going on is I was trying to get the screen down for the mother. And I just could not get the screen. And I was listening to your podcast and you were doing some fucking character. And you just like very casually went like, and then they go like, well, you did this like amazing blood curdling shriek. And I was like, that's, that's what I want. I was like in the street. And I was like, he did it. And so I got a hold of you. And you were so kind to come in and I made you scream for 20 minutes. It was awesome. It was my pleasure. Yes, it was my pleasure. No, it was so much fun. Actually, it's a good bring-up. So like, we know each other from way back in the day. Why this kids was always held as like this wonderful steam because we the goal. The goal. I'm sure you hated us just like every other sketch group hated. You know what, dude? What's nice is that you guys were awesome. Each one of you was extremely sweet to us. You never made us feel stupid. We were told because we were the only other independent sketch comic group. We arrived. We were like a part of a pastiche of independent sketch comedy groups. And like, you were like kind of the Bastion. You guys were the light on the hill that like, oh, if you just, if you're just funny and you're right place, right time, they give you a television show. And then you sealed up the door behind you. You really did. That was part of our deal. We're like close the door. Yeah, but the part of sketch comedy, I feel like now we're seeing. We even had Peter been trying to help us for a hot second. He couldn't do shit with us. He was a great. We were a fucking disaster. We were hammered. We were discussed. That was the problem. You think we weren't hammered? Are you kidding? God damn it. It's all gonna work. It's all gonna work. But a lot of people now like, you know, Jordan Peele, a lot of people are seeing this connection between horror and comedy. And I think it's getting kind of like, everybody's saying sort of the same thing, right? We're that comedy hinges on timing and visceral response, which is very similar. And humor, but I think it's deeper than that. Oh, tell me. Tell me. Well, no, I wanted to ask you if you felt that exercising dark ideas through sketch comedy actually creates a darker vision for like the world in general. What an amazing question that I have never really considered. And I think you could be right. And here's where I'm gonna go with you on this journey here is because all the brain storming that we would do to sit down and just start like, okay, sketch ideas, sketch ideas. You know, because we've all been there like, what would be crazy? You just start pushing your brain to think of like, what's an extreme situation? And I did that all day, every day for, I don't know how many fucking years I committed all of myself to white. It's because basically a decade, honestly, you know. So I think like if there's a gym, you know, like a mental gym, I was working out the muscle group that was like, how far can I go? You know, how can I, how can I go left when I should go right? So maybe that's, maybe that's in there. I feel like movies are almost like a series of sketches, like getting you from scene to scene in a weird way. Do you think that horror movies like comedies hinge on pivotal scenes or versus entire arcs? Well, that's a great question too. I think look, a horror movie must have scenes that scare you, right? If you want a horror movie and you're never actually scared, but it's telling a great story, it doesn't mean it's a bad movie. It just means it's probably not really a horror movie. It's a drama. So yeah, or it's a mystery, it's a thrill, whatever it is, you know, I don't know. But I mean, the best horror movies will have those, but they'll still like, you could take the scares out and it would still tell a compelling story. Like the shining is still a fascinating story, even if it wasn't, you know, as viscerally terrifying as it is. Because I want to know, I want to track this guy's decline and I want to watch how his family has to react. I think that's, that's a really engaging story. So I'm trying to think of like a terrifying horror movie where if you took all the scares out, it would be like, let's, let's say I'm a terrifying two, right? Sure, yeah, yeah, a terrifying two, which is like, for me, I view that even closer to like a comedy in terms of you have set pieces. Like terrifying two has set pieces that the movie is sort of moving towards that it would allow these things to collide where like you did that so well in weapons with the kind of way you told the story where you set four lines out at each other and then they all collide together. But terrifying two is a much more deeply simplified version of what you did. You know, like it's a much more simplified, it's much more direct and obviously it's like, we got to kill a bunch of people with like, you know, like terrifying two, you know, the idea is to get just piles of guts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That is sad, it's just kill, kill, kill, kill, kill. - By the way, I really liked "Tarifier 2." - So when I read it, they're unbelievable. - When I went to "Fright Fest" in 2022, the only movie I was like, I gotta clear my schedule to go see "Tarifier 2," 'cause I had been, I loved "Tarifier 1," and I was like, I can't believe I had to wait like this many years to see this fucking thing. I am ready, so I'm really happy to them. - I'm into it. - Do you mind lying to all of them at once? Just 'cause I was literally scared to see 'em. Yeah, yeah, 'cause I just like, I don't know if I can handle all this core. And then, so I was just like up, then we interviewed David Howard Thornton, so I just watched all three, like right in a row, and that was fucking, that's the way to do it. - And he's the "Setsless Little Cow Poke Southern Boy." - Have you ever talked to him? - No, no, no, no. - He's all like, "Well, Gigali, I don't even know how all this stuff." "I'm just a theater boy, and I just, I love musicals." - And it was amazing, honestly. - I had the pleasure of seeing weapons in a packed theater. Wednesday night, packed theater. - Tuesday night, I saw it in a packed theater. And not just that, it was playing in multiple theaters at once, and it was like, everyone was going to see weapons. It was fucking awesome. - That's wild. - But the reality, dude. - There was a part in this that I wondered, people were talking in the lobby. - Oh yes, everybody almost hanging out in the lobby. You have such a great, like when you were making, when you were making this movie, you ever see "Exorcist 3"? Did you put "Exorcist 3"? - Oh, I've seen "Exorcist 3"? I think it's amazing. - Did you, were you inspired at all by "Exorcist 3"? 'Cause I think you have one of the best jump scares that I've seen in a fucking minute, dead in the room. - I'm guessing you're talking about the ceiling. - Yes. - Yes. - I mean, that's gotta come from "Exorcist 3", but that's kind of a combination of three jump scares. Obviously, the "Exorcist 3" ceiling gag is not a jump scare, it's just deeply off-putting. - Yes. - You know, it's, and it's great, it's mesmerizing. And I love it. The "Exorcist 3" jump scare, which is to mine, for my money in the top five of all time, is the hallway crash zoom on that fucking lady with the scissors. That to me, I get into the hair on my neck standing up right now, just thinking about that scare. It's so good. I don't know how it freaked me out so much the first time I saw it. And it's one of those scares where I could still put it on right now, and it would still kind of get me. You know, I love it so much. The other one, and this is a little less like hip cred here, but the conjuring dude, the Bathsheba on top of the armoire, but it tilted up, and she jumps. I was not ready for that, dude. That annihilated me in the theater. - Dude, the first conjuring fucked me up. It was the bed. - Dude, the clapping sequence, it's ruthless. - I always think of it as Sidious, too, though, which is my other big commercial one, where I almost killed my mother, because I knew it was coming. I knew they ate, we saw it with my mom, and I knew the devil, the fire devil scene was coming. And so I cried over the shoulder. I crawled behind the chair that she was sitting in, I pretended to go to the bathroom, and I crawled behind the chair, and it's a popped up. I almost fucking killed her. (laughing) Man, it was so worth it. But I do believe that's an Sidious one, if I'm not sick. - Yes, yes, Sidious, that's my other favorite jump scare. But like, when you're thinking about the movie, when you're writing it, like, do you think about it in that way? Like, for those jump scares, for stuff like that, like, because in weapons, it came in a very specific moment. Obviously, it felt like you were like, it almost felt like the movie kicks in. Or like, like, you were watching it all of a sudden, it was like, the movie changed. Is that on purpose? - To a degree, yeah. So my writing process is usually very stream of consciousness. I don't outline, I don't know where I'm gonna go. So like, I remember the first pass I did, at that point in Justine's chapter, I actually didn't really know where the kids went. I didn't know what was behind them running away. So I was kind of like, just like, improvising. And so I don't think I put that ceiling scene nightmare in because I didn't know that Gladys existed. - Yeah. - And so-- - When did Gladys show up for you? - I think in the cop stuff, when I was getting into Paul and the cop and the junkies when I kind of figured it out. Like, I think by the time I wrote James's chapter, I had that idea. I was like, the kids were in the basement. Why the, like, why would the kids be in Alex's basement? It just felt like it's where they had to be. And then I just kind of had this idea of like, it's, this is gonna sound really woo-woo and I really don't like to talk about the meaning of the movie, but I have said this before, so I guess I can let this much out of the bag 'cause it's already out. But like, the Gladys and Alex chapter to me is just about living with an alcoholic parent. I grew up in an alcoholic household. My dad died a cirrhosis, you know, and it's a terrible thing that comes into a family dynamic and it changes everything. And so, you know, I had a happy house. And then something came into my house and it turned my dad into a scary person and I'd go to school and everything's cool and I'd go home and I'd have a scary house with a scary dad, you know? And so, like, that to me felt so interesting. And this is such a personal movie, so it's like it-- - Yeah. - There's no overarching lesson in this movie. This is not like, I have nothing to say with this movie. I'm not, I have no pretence of like, this is a treatise or anything like that. It's just a diary entry from me. And it just felt good to kind of have this dynamic at the core of it. That is something that I feel really a personal connection to that had a ripple effect out into this town. - Dude. - And so, that's all that is. - Live from Norway. - Now, many people would say, many people. - Just a, eh. - My manager, my family. - 30 people. - A lot of people might say that when a broadcaster has found himself interviewing a dog, that that would be the low point of their career. - Absolutely. - But, why is it my high point? I gotta say, I'm thrilled today to be joined with the wonderful, absolutely good boy, Dr. Henry Indiana Jones. - It's so good to have you here. Have you been, how are you enjoying LA? Have you gone out, have you tried the vegan food yet? - Have you been to the chateau? - Ooh, you would do great at the chateau. - Have you gone to the chateau? Because honestly, I feel like that's like one of those things where the scene at the chateau would suit you. - Yeah, it would really, you would look good there. You would be good there. And if you wanted to, you can go to the bathroom and call it the chateau. - Nothing, huh? - Wow. - Nothing on that. - I do puns. Your father, Ben Leoneberger directed this film. Do you feel that he in many ways sort of, I don't know, because your dog might have skirted around some of the child labor laws. - Yeah. - Do you know that Ben is actually, I hate to do this. - What? - Not your father? - Don't do this. - No, I mean, but he's not, I mean, obviously your dog, and he's a man. And you're not his son. Ben is the father that stepped up. - Yeah. - So how do you feel about your stepfather? - So tell me, when you first got this script, how did you choose it? Was it one of those where, like, you know, you've been auditioning for years and you're like, finally, like this is me. I am in this film, right? Or is it just because you needed the money? - Yeah. - And were you not willing to put on the wait for Beethoven? - Fucking nothing. - Jesus Christ, nothing, huh? - You know, I don't know whether or not you're being paid by big government to be silenced. - Yeah. - But you gotta understand that part of your job is an actor is to do promo, okay? - Yeah. - You gotta hit the road, you gotta get out there and talk to people about your movie. Or no one's gonna go fuck and see it. Nobody's gonna see it unless you press it. You know, this is like when we try to have Billy Bob Thornton. We had Billy Bob Thornton in one time and he literally showed up dressed as a French mime and he didn't speak on. And you wouldn't even know it was Billy Bob Thornton. He also ate his own shit. - Yes. Which is like, he said something that was about, like, he said human composting. - Yeah. - He said that was his new diet or whatever. Have you ever met Billy Bob? - I'm just, - Wow. - I just wonder if the silence has anything to do with some of those recent. - Are you in the Pupstein files? - Are you in the Pupstein file? Answer us. Where is it? - Did you take Pupstein's plane? - Were you on dog Lolita one? - Because it's legal for you. There is no age of consent. Dogs get pregnant before they're won. - Yeah. - So it's not even that big of a deal. - Now that you're an actor, do you still believe in money over bitches? - Yeah, now that you can get anything you want, any kind of treat that you want, any kind of, you know, you can get a heart guard sent to the house. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? Like, what was your first expenditure? - Yeah, I get being shy. - Yeah. - He wants to appear. Like, you know what it is, I get it in a way that he wants to appear like he's still one of us. - I'm sure, I'm sure. - Now, are you in SAG or WAG? - About non-union. - Non-union. - We're gonna talk about that with Ben. - No. - Non-union. - That's a boo. That is a nice and good look. - Not a good look. - Not a good look. - Hey, baby. - No, no, no, no. - Yeah. - Yeah, for that. - Poos. - Oh, actually, no, they shot Montana. - Oh, so they don't care. - Interesting. - Montana doesn't care that you just hoard water there. - They do hoard water. - Well, you're not gonna answer our hardcore questions. I don't know what you're gonna do. when you go on access Hollywood app after us. - Yeah, I can't believe that good boy. He's a bad dog. - You're a bad dog. - Bad dog. - Bad boy. - Bad dog. - Bad boy. - I don't like being around you. - Oh my God. - Don't do that. No, it's not true. You know it's not true. - He's very attractive. - He's the handsomeest person in this room. - Yeah. - God, I bet you get all the bitches. - All right, let's try to talk to his fucking father. - It's not his father. - He's not your father. - Bye from your play. - Now your lead actor was bit difficult at the top of the interview. - Yeah, what up with that? - Yeah, I mean, he refused to read a script for the entire duration of the shoot. He really doesn't understand that he's in a movie. I cannot say that enough. - It's like him, Gary Bucy. When did the second chances start? You know what I mean? Like how often are we gonna do this? These guys that don't understand, you can't pee in front of everybody. - The trick is figuring out how to make a movie around them. - Yeah. - Genuinely, that's what it takes is that, you know, Indy doesn't understand he's in a movie. So you have to-- - I thought we were just talking about Gary Bucy. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, he does that. - Yeah, that might be how it works. - Yeah. - You're like, "Here, Gary." - I'll say-- - Here, here, here, here, here, here, here, over here. Aim the choppers over here. - Oh man, I love just how it's spooky even talking to you over Zoom. - We can't even really just even bring the audience in. We had a little bit of a technical kerfuffle, but it's still frightening. Because we're watching, it seems like I don't know why, I don't know what it is, but your energy that the tubes are afraid of. But we have one of our new horror icons. - Yes. - We're very excited to have the actor who portrays Art the Clown. Nay is Art the Clown. David Howard Thornton. - Yeah. - Are there any clowns that you would like study to get manurisms, or is this all just like you? - Oh yeah, definitely so. I mean, I grew up watching a lot of the great silent comedians and clowns. I mean, I was watching like, you know, Mark's brothers and Charlie Chaplin and all, even like Emma Kelly, Jr. and Emma Kelly. And gosh, Mr. Bean was a huge influence on me as well. Marcel Marceau, Peter Sellers, you know, Don Not. So I can just go on and on list all these Jim Carrey, just on and on and on. Actually, Stephen, who I understood for Grinch, he was professionally trained in clowning in mind work. So I took a lot of what I learned from Stephen and put it into art. You can actually watch videos of Robbie Rotten and compare them to Art the Clown. And you'll see probably a lot of similarities with mannerisms. - That's interesting. Now, is there any music that like you would listen to to kind of like getting the mood, you know, do you like play circus music or something before you get out there? - No, not really. I mean, not for myself, but like I, a lot of the times in the chair when Damon, especially in parts one and two when Damon was doing my makeup, he was listening to a lot of Yacht Rock. - Yes. (laughing) - That's what I think is so funny. People probably think Damien's like this hardcore bad ass listening to heavy metal all the time. No, man, he grooves to Yacht Rock. He loves Yacht Rock and 80's music. We will drive like when we're going to set something like like two hour, three hour drive, sometimes upstate. We would just be sitting there listening to like Yacht Rock and 80's music the whole entire time, just grooving out, that's just how we are. But like for myself though, I will sometimes just for shits and giggles put on something. I sometimes would like to put on like the song, Danny Elfman's song from the first Batman movie with the Joker's like Waltz to the Death. - Oh yeah. - I think that's just always, it always just puts me that little wacky little mister this evil clown type of mode. So sometimes I would just think that in my head if I have to go a little bit nuts, I guess you could say. - Yeah. - Do you feel like now that the movie got, like Terrifier 3 probably got the biggest budget, the most legit budget. - Yes. - How is it going from being driven by the director to set who would do the makeup and then you'd shoot? - Obviously probably like five, how much such, the most shoestring crew possible. - Oh yeah. - To like an actual movie set. Like how, is there anything you miss or is there anything that's better? - Oh, we still had a lot of the old school feel to it all because we weren't a full online traditional movie set where we didn't have the honey wagons or anything like that. So it wasn't a big, hugely, but it was, we did have a makeup team that came in this time. And so that was definitely a nice thing to have there because it allowed Damian more freedom too because he wasn't having to stop my making and go on to set and do stuff that come back and do my makeup more and stuff. So that was nicer in that way. But yeah, we're still not like what you traditionally see here in Hollywood on a set. So we still had that independent feel to a lot of things. - 'Cause they changed the makeup too, right? Didn't they do it thing? 'Cause it used to be sort of different separate pieces and then they just made it a whole mask for you essentially? - No, it was always a one whole mask, but the original mask wasn't even molded to my face. It was Mike Giannelli's original mold. - Yeah. - And so it didn't fully fit my face. Damian always had a manipulated suit fit my face. But this time, Christian Tensley, who his team that did our makeup for this one on part three, they actually did a new sculpt in mold of my face. So it's a little bit more gaunt than the last one was. 'Cause Damian wanted art to be more gaunt than this one. And then they also-- - It looked good. - Oh, I love it, I love the look. And they also gave me a skull lenses for my eyes this time. So my eyes were different. And like part two, I had my natural green eyes. And part one, I had context for a little bit. And then we had one night where I had a rip in my lenses. And so I couldn't wear them for that night. We had the film. So we decided from that point on, I would just be wearing my regular eyes. And if anybody knows what the hell, you know. - Yeah, why, you're not paying attention to the right thing. - Yeah, exactly. And I kind of just say in my head, like the eye color changed after he got knocked out by the exterminator. So I was like, oh yeah, the context popped out. And so now-- - Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, definitely. - Yeah, but if this one, he's-- - If this one, you notice. - You know, he's rebirthed. So now he's become more demonic in part three. So he has different eyes going forward. - This is a question that we were talking about before. Is he a human in the first one? - Yes. - Okay, and when does he, like, when does it become supernatural? - At the very end of part one where he's brought back from the dead. - Yes. And then like, so he was just a man. - Yes. - And so the face underneath the makeup you would assume would have just been like art the clown. So what's art the clown? What was his day like? - Yeah, what did he do during the day? - What did he-- - Did he have a job? Did he-- - What was that? - Oh, you can't say yet? - Can't say yet. - Wow. - Yes. - All right, I'm glad there is an answer. - Yes, that's one of those things too. We're, God, that'll be great. Everyone will be very excited to see that jump in. - Yeah, I will say this that I know for one thing for his origin, we don't wanna make him a sympathetic character. - No, we don't want him to have one of those tragic backstories where he was abused and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Basically, how I view him in my head is he came out of his mother's womb and strangled her with his own imbilical cord. He's just evil incarnate. He is just, that's why he'll last yonder this guy. He's like, this is our avatar on earth. - We love this guy. - He is evil. - Yeah, yeah, we love this guy. Yeah, it's like, it's the same variant of the, he's from the seed of 1,000 maniacs. - Yeah, exactly. He was just born evil. And that's the thing, he's like, I do generally believe there are some people that are that way. They just came out of the womb and they are just fucked up in the head. I knew a kid like that when growing up where he was this kid that lived across the street from one of my best friends. And I saw him flat out just take glee and killing, you know, squirrels. - Yes. - Right, he would like shoot him with his BB gun and wash him bleed out or he would just strangle them himself. And I was like, this kid's just evil. And my mom was like, do not play with that kid ever again. He's evil. - God. - So that's how I view art. He was just born that way. He just had that tendency from the very get go where he just loved to kill things. It brought him joy. - I also find that people that have the happiest existence play unrepentant maniacs really well. And I can tell from the Lego on your leg up behind you that you seem like a very happy, go lucky man. - That comes from, you know, years of struggling. I'm happy with, yeah, that's, you know, I was boldly relentlessly growing up. But it's like, I always, how I escaped all that was finding the things that brought me joy and brought me happiness. And so it's like, I am a child of heart in a lot of ways. I guess some people would say I, you know, like I have a, what is it? A rest of development. - We both have said that about me too. And it's like, whatever you idiot, whatever you fucking butthead, fuck you. - You're stupid face. - Shut up. Shut up. Oh, I'm a child. Well, you're fucking, you got big ass and you're stupid. I think, I hate you. - So say that in your pocket if you ever need. - Oh, your turn. - Oh, yeah. I think it's just all that bullying I went through. It's like, it's like, I think I've been able to challenge a lot of that on, on set. I mean, there are even times on set where like, you know, I'm just not fully giving them what they need for a, an attack or something like that. And they'll just go, Hey, Dave, just pretend it's this, um, certain person and go. And I'm like, yeah, we're like, Oh shit, Dave, where'd that come from? Like, repressed rage. Yeah. Okay. We interviewed Joe Hill, uh, author, Joe Hill a few months ago. Yeah. Fantastic man. It went so well. And we never, we didn't really even say anything about us that. Yeah, we didn't say we said nothing about us that we were so cool during that interview, but it went so well that he came back and he brought his father, Stephen King with that. That's right. He was like, I got my dad. You guys are talking about me and I got my dad here now. But then he did a whole thing. You'll see in the interview where he's like, my dad will beat you all up. And Stephen King stood up. And he was like, come here. You're a little f words, five or six times. You'll see. You'll see. You'll see. You'll see. It's all there. You know, one thing it, speaking of grotesque gifts, you know, disturbing gifts, John Wayne Gacy sent my dad some art back in the day from prison. And actually, I found that so disturbing. That's in the first paragraph of heart shaped box. Yes. You know, that kind of hung in my mind because the other thing is his Gacy wasn't terrible. I mean, he was obviously terrible. I can't, I can't underline enough how terrible he was. Well, he was a funny guy. Yeah, he was a funny guy. We've already singled it out. You're screwed. Yeah, that's gotta be the clip to sell this episode. John Wayne Gacy was pretty good. You know, but what he did was he was a fun guy. Yeah. You could, he could do a passable, he could do passable like Disney characters and stuff. Well, he used to do paint by numbers. He used to go and get the, like, he would have a whole system of other serial killers, including one of the, the guys from the Chicago rippers. And he also had the guy that killed everybody to avoid the earthquake in Southern California. Yeah, the Herbert Mullin Herbert Mullin. He had other serial killers working for him on an assembly line painting these paintings for him. That's not true. Yes. Is that true? Yes. Because he's, he literally was a job creator. He was a executive manager. He was a project runner. That's what he did. He was a project manager. So they had an art club in prison. There was a kind of like a chain gang. Like literally, you need to kind of force them to do stuff. And then they would bring in, there's a whole story about how John Wayne Gacy was sort of game by this young man that called him and pretended to be really into him. And so these young man started arriving to visit with John Wayne Gacy. And then the two of them would talk to the other serial killers like they were his little like crew. Like it was like his little brothers. So don't feel that honored about the art. Is it like that? I can't come from men but with art. Yes. Yes. Do you find that in speaking of terms of collaboration? Because you guys worked together because of John Wayne Gacy can really run that type of collaboration. I'm sure you guys really, you guys put some really good stuff together. Like because in the tall grass was a great thing. How do you guys feel when you're together working? We've only done it twice. We wrote in the tall grass when we wrote throttle. And, you know, I mean, I feel like when I, the times I've written with dad, you ever see in like the Warner Brothers cartoons when while he coyotes climbs on an acne rocket and lights the fuse and then suddenly it takes off under him. That's what it's like writing with my dad. I feel like I'm just kind of hanging on for dear life. You know, I'd sort of like sweat and pull my hair out over like three pages or something. And then I'd email it to him in like 45 minutes later. He'd be like, it was great. Here's five more pages. She's crazy. I wrote five. I would keep it up. Well, you know, there was a time when I was chemically assisted by some of those things in the books with Peter Straub in the early days, but those days are behind me now. Yeah. Now it's just what Sialis lot of a lot of snapple. That's what I do. I crush up my Sialis right into the right end of the night. I just do it. I do it line by line each day just to get me going to do podcast. Yeah. And under the lid of those snapples, they got funny little things. You can just slide right into the book. You know, if you wanted to. How do you write books? How, how write books? One of the things that, you know, you talked about characters that that died. A little boy died at the end of of Kujo, you know, in the novel in the movie. He uses spoilers. I mean, Joe, no, no, 50 years old almost. Go read Kujo. Anyway, the little boy dies at the end of the book, but in the movie, he lives, but he got licked by the rabid dog. So I think he died horribly of rabies after the fade out. But you know, the thing is, when children die or adults die in books, that's one thing. Don't let a dog die. You know, I have heard more about that. I mean, Greg Stilson kicks a dog to death at the beginning of the dead zone. I've never heard the end of it. Yeah. That's that's an automatic one-star off your good retraining. You killed, I killed a cat in a story called Jack Knife and I have eaten so much shit about it online. You know, my, my mother's dog who I took in Tutsi, she actually passed away yesterday out of complete, you know, randomness. She was only 19 years old. So, you know, why do they? Yeah, she could almost buy a beer. Why do they go so young? But, um, so we did a wonderful thing with her. We, we took her up and we, we put her up, we brought her body up a hill and then, you know, we, we, we put her in the ground and there was a beautiful rock structure on the ground. It was like some kind, it was just gorgeous. And then we, we were putting her in the ground and there was, it was thin soil. It was sour. And, and so I'm hoping when I get home, uh, she'll be there waiting for me. Pet cemetery. Yes. Go down that road. I don't think that's better. I'm sorry. Was that your jug crangle? Sometimes that is better. I hope that your routine doesn't depend on the quality of your impersonation. Oh, he was good. He was great. He was great. He was best. I have to ask about pet cemetery because like you, I am a, a massive Ramones fan, massive, massive Ramones fan. And you know, and the story goes, uh, that, that's been told that, you know, you invited them over to your house when, you know, before pet cemetery was being made and Didi Ramone took a copy of pet cemetery, disappeared for an hour and came back with the song fully written. Did that, did it actually happen that way? No. Okay. How did it actually happen? Yeah. I love, I love getting past images and stories. I said, what would they, would they write? You know, I, my idea was that they would do the soundtrack for pet cemetery and that didn't fly, but they did do that song. I don't, I don't want to be buried in a pet cemetery and that was what you talk about a great line. I don't want to live cemetery. I don't want to live my life again. That's such a sad little, sad little, you know, but every Lanky nerd boy knows that feeling. They're all just like, I don't want to go through junior high again. That's what it's about. You know, you just get a whole album out of AC DC. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, they did, they did the whole soundtrack to Maxim overdrive. I just saw that movie to prep for this. Do you remember directing any of that, Mr. King? Uh, yeah, I, I remember too, too much of it. But, uh, you know, the thing is I didn't know, and Dino said, yes, Steven, this is Dino, Dino, Dennis is a, is Steven now? Uh, I think, uh, what we want to do is make a movie and, uh, you're going to direct it. Well, I'd never done anything before. I hadn't been in, uh, film school or anything. I learned as I, as I went along. I could actually do a pretty good job. Then the next time, but it was a blast. I have. I also feel a lot of it, because you have such a deep understanding of movies, because you guys were both big media. You guys watch a lot of movies when you guys are writing novels versus, like, our screenplays, like, easier than a novel. Or is it like, like, because sometimes you're retrofitting from one of your other previous works. Like, what's the hardest thing that you do? What's the thing besides getting up in the goddamn morning? I mean, go into the dentist, I think, probably, yeah. We're having a proctological exam, but those are, I mean, is it easier to write scripts or books? Which one is I mean, books I'd want to write books any day the week over writing screenplays, but I do write screenplays because that's how I get my healthcare. So I try to write at least one script every year. You know, you've had a lot, you've done a lot more in that space. You've written whole TV shows, you know, like not just like the pilot or something, but like every, literally every episode. I think you wrote every episode of Golden Years. You wrote every episode of Lisi's story. You wrote every episode of, uh, Stone of the Century. But does it suck to go from being able to be Lord and creator in your own world of writing a novel to like having to go talk to a bunch of suits in a building and try and tell them what your ideas are. Do you just, you just not care? Are they just like, oh, whatever you want, Mr. King? No, I mean, it isn't that way. Really, but what I do because I have this wonderful cushion that I don't have to write for the rent every month and that's a big fucking deal as you guys probably know. The thing is I can write a script on, on spec and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I did a, a series of scripts, uh, for a show called, uh, Stone of the Century. Yeah. And that's, that's my favorite one. Really, you know, that really turned out well. And because I had a good relationship with director, you know, well, I'm, it's also really glad, I'm glad to hear that the only fans is really working out for you guys. And then that is really paying the bills. And I just really, I think that that's really great for you guys. It's regular. I've noticed that you have the same director do your stories, you know, like your multiple movies. Is there a certain director you think that understands your your, uh, your stories better than anyone else? Mike Flanagan. Yeah. Like, he's good. He's good. But who's the other guy? I want to say he's got like a name like Jack Holden or something or like maybe he directed the hitter. Oh, you're talking about, uh, uh, Jack, um, Jack Bender. Jack Bender. It was Jack Bender. Thank you. You just saved us. He's great. You know, what are yourself bad? Jack Bender is terrific. Uh, and, and he's somebody who can do things that are just wonderful on, uh, uh, uh, uh, a low budget and short time. And he's fantastic at both of those things. And it doesn't look phoned in, you know, that's, that's great. Well, let's see, like speaking of, you know, things that you've written for the screen, like I, one of the massive influence on, on me was the, the, the TV miniseries for the stand that, you know, came back in in 1994 like that. It blew my mind, uh, when I saw that when I was a kid. But, you know, with, you know, writing that and also, you know, writing the, the novel, which is also, of course, incredible. When COVID came around in 2020, were you surprised by how people acted? Or were you pretty much like, okay, this is what I expected to happen when a plague hits. Well, one thing that that did happen is this is horrible to say, but the book went through the roof again, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From your play. And we have truly, this is, I, I, obviously, a pillar of, of the, of our world, the ultimate man of nightmares, the star of arguably the peak of his career, Pinocchio Unstrung is Robert England. Thank you so much for joining us today. Do you think that you, your persona as like the master of horror also sort of like paints how people react to you? Like do you think that like you, you, you, you, do you really disappoint people by not being a child murderer? Well, here's the thing. I had a fat 10 years in Hollywood before I ever did Freddie. Yeah. Yeah. And in that 10 years, I did a dozen movies and starred in half of them. You know, again, you know, I starved Jeff Bridges and Sally Field and Henry Fonda, Jeff Bridges. I do want to ask quickly. What was Charles Bronson like? Charles had a guy, an assistant who had a little miniature ticker tape with him. And he would be stuck checking his stock market. And he also, he also would tear out dialogue, you know, and keep it real simple, of course, and parse his lines down to smaller, clean lines of dialogue. And also I watched him and he would reach, he would practice reaching for a prop. So he didn't have to look at it when he went to get it. And he'd measure it off. And in a way, he moved and rehearsed his physical stuff like a dancer. He wasn't big. He was compact. But he moved beautifully like Lee Marvin moves beautifully or Kevin Bacon moves really well and interesting. They were each old John Wayne had that great strange grace in the way he moved. And I watched him do that like he would measure his grip from coffee cups so that he could just keep talking to you and reach out a frame and bring that coffee cup in, you know, or him from that bottle, you know, and switch hands. And, you know, he just, he was great that way. He really moved. You see some of his movies, Kato's land and things like that and watch him move. It's just just beautiful to watch. We forget, you know, every, how big Charles Bronson was, every culture in the world thought he was one of theirs. The Russians thought he was Russians. Polish thought he was Polish. Well, kind of what, you know, Czechoslovakian thought he was Czechoslovakian spaniard thought he was Spanish. Yeah. Well, he's also, he had that idocyncratic way about him that kind of cut through everything like I feel like that's about the thing about actors we're missing a little bit now. It's like you can anybody can impersonate Charles Bronson. Anybody can impersonate Marlon Brando. You know the voice so indicatively. Well, this is one of the things we've lost. If you think about Jimmy Stewart's hesitant delivery, or Henry Fonda's Midwestern accent or Brando or John Wayne, you, you recognize them when you heard them, let alone when you saw them. It was a signature voice. And I think that that's something that actors have to realize has is part of the component, you know, of an actor. You know, every once in a life either certain actresses that have such beautiful, deep husky voices, you just love hearing them speak. And it makes them just that much more fascinating or sexy or, or, you know, you just, you like that. Yeah. It's, they come with a full toolbox, you know, so to speak. And we've lost that a little bit. You know, you know, and I think that people probably thought they could compensate by going to the gym, you know, or something, but you can, as long as you're taking your shirt off. But then you also have to sound right when you speak. You know, it's so important. It's clearly you and Pinocchio on strong and it was great to hear your curse. I mean, all I tried to do is to avoid the Freddie laugh as much as I could because the Freddie laugh is an old class exercise from, from, from voice class, you know, that I had. And that was my go to thing because it's about the breathing on the diaphragm. Yeah. Staying that laugh. And so I, my muscle memory, I fall into the Freddie laugh pretty automatically. Now I have to consciously pitch it higher and breathe less, you know, to, to, you know, get, get, you know, if I want to, if I'm doing an evil laugh when I'm doing a voiceover, you know, for animation or something, now I, I consciously have to pitch it high and bite off the air and turn it more into kind of like a demonic giggle or something. So I don't, so I don't remind everybody that they're listening to Freddie Krueger. And wasn't that great. That was truly one of the best things I've done. Just be in here. I'm done with the intro. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The intro was actually right on the monitor. That was better. That was great. Well, a lot of the interviews for my perspective. You guys are really good at interviews. Oh, thank you. You're, you're better than you. Thank you. I'm fine. You're doing great, buddy. Sometimes I get nervous. I want to meet Stephen King was like one of those guys that worked really hard on that interview. It's so funny because I actually cared way less about Stephen King than Robert England. Yeah. Robert England's like my fucking childhood hero. Yes. Like I know it's weird to like for Freddie Krueger to be your childhood hero. It's great. It's actually kind of appropriate. But it is funny how he was so good at not answering the dumb questions. Oh my god. No one has deflected my questions better than Robert France. He's a real pro. He's a real fucking pro. Well, we'll see you all next week. Thanks everybody. Go check out all our socials. Go check out our patreon. Go check us out on Netflix. Have a good night. Have a good time. Have a good week. Have a good life. We'll talk to you all soon. Hell's it. Hogan. Hell Robert France. France France France.