Best Manager Ever: Morgane Palomares

I'm asking for a lot, but I'm always going to tell you how it is in a caring way, and that I do honestly care about your career in getting you to the place that you want to go, makes this environment where people are like, "Okay, cool. Let's rock and roll." Welcome to Best Manager Ever. I'm your host Annie Riley. Do you ever wonder what your director ports say behind your back? We share wisdom and lessons learned from the most successful and beloved leaders in the startup world. You can trust our guests because they've been nominated by their director ports as the best manager they've ever worked for. Before the interview, we dig in with their team to collect the back-end stories about how they show up and then sit down with the leaders themselves to unpack their playbook. Join us for advice and inspiration to level up your own skills and become the best-ever version of you. Hey, managers. We are in for a real treat today. In addition to it being our very first episode, we are lucky to hear from the amazing Morgan Pelamarez about her leadership journey and playbook. Morgan has had a super accomplished rise through the tech world, having served in all sorts of marketing roles at change.org, Zendesk, GitHub, and now as the VP of Marketing at Versailles, and after talking with Morgan and her direct reports, it is very clear that her star is still rising. Morgan was nominated for this project by my former colleague Cynthia McGillis, and I had the pleasure of connecting with five direct reports who have worked for Morgan, all of whom raved about working with her. I love how Morgan's personality shines through in seemingly everything she does, and she's not afraid to make anything her own, so we all have so much to learn from Morgan's journey and approach to management. Let's start by hearing some raw audio from authentic conversations with Morgan's direct reports about how she shows up as a leader. She's very intense, and she holds a very, very high standard, but she helps you get there, and if you're struggling, she'll help you. She has many superpowers. One of them is she spots people's strengths and weaknesses, and she knows how to bring out their strengths and help them work on their weaknesses. I think one of the best things about her being a manager is that she takes managing you very seriously. She spends a lot of time and effort in her reports. She has a whole thing about career building. You get this package deal where she builds your career up and helps you get to where you want to go. She is so much more than just a manager. She is super thoughtful, like strategically thoughtful. She really thinks so much beyond managing you right now, and what results need to bring. She was helping me think about my career, like one, two, three, four or five years ahead, as a manager, like she's also very bold. She will go to that for you, but I think her expectations of you are also very bold. If you work for her, you have to be ready to get pretty much the most out of yourself, because her expectation is, "I know you can do this, so even if you think you can't do it, like I expect you to be able to do this." Now let's hear from Morgan about how she got her start in the tech world and learned how to be the manager she is today. I think the way that I even got into tech is representative of everything else. I knew that I wanted to be in some sort of social impact area, and then I found out about this company called Change.org, which was an online petition platform. A lot of online activism was happening, and so it was an interesting concept for me where I was like, "Wow, people can speak up about things online, and it may actually impact change." I started a petition on the platform for them to hire me. I didn't know what job I should do. I was like, "This is a cool place. I know I'll work my tail off, and hopefully they'll hire me." I put on my Facebook and had all of my friends sign it, and after three days, the recruiter reached out to me. It was like, "Who are you? And what do you want to do here?" So I interviewed with all of the leaders at the company, and I ended up having one of the final conversations with the marketing leader. And she basically was like, "Hey, you market yourself really great. What do you do for fun?" So I told her that I was planning this trip to Coachella with 25 of my friends, and I organized the whole thing, and then I was telling her that I was organizing a burning man camp, and that was like 60 people. And so she was like, "I think you would be really great at marketing, and the first thing that we could have you do is events." And so I got the job, and I just started doing field marketing for them, not even knowing that's what field marketing was. What was really cool and probably the most formative was that I stayed reporting to that same person the four years that I was there. And during the four years that I was there, she allowed me to try essentially every single part of marketing. So I just got to touch everything, and I think that really formed a lot of who I became as a leader, because she was just awesome. She would let me explore. She would give me feedback all the time of how to be better, what gaps that I had, and we really trusted one another. And then I ended up getting a job after that at Zendesk through the former HR leader at Change.org, because he went to Zendesk, and that's how I went there. At Zendesk, I also had an incredible manager. She was definitely a lot harder on me though. The bar was really high. Her expectations were really high. And I worked harder than I ever worked before, but I learned so much, and I liked how much she pushed me. And then ever since having that experience, I was always sort of yearning for another manager that was going to try to get the absolute best out of me. I never got that level of attention, and I want to be that way for other people, especially for people that are earlier in their career, because if they get that level of coaching early on, I feel like they're just going to be better suited to lead later. Versus, I feel like what I often see now is you sort of wait to coach people until they become a director to try and teach them how to be a leader. Yeah. Basically, you had these two amazing managers pretty early in your career that in some ways complemented each other, where you were able to build and shape your professional style based on the inputs that you got from them. And then from that role at Zendesk, it sounds like that was sort of the foundation of how you show up as a leader. And then since then do you have any practices, resources, tools that you have in place for yourself to be able to continue to learn, grow and develop when you're not getting that from your direct manager as much, because clearly you've continued to accelerate in terms of the responsibility that you take on the impact that you have. So do you have any tips for how people can continue to hold focus around that? Yeah. When I went to GitHub, I had a manager at the time that I didn't always see either Ion. And so I started reading a lot of management books, mainly so that I could better understand their management style and try to meet somewhere in the middle. And I was doing that as an IC. I think when I started managing, I actually continue just reading a lot of management books, like reading about emotions, reading about giving feedback, building teams. I even read like a military book about how they build troops and squads and units. So I just became really obsessed with reading about different people's perspectives. And I would just highlight the crap out of the book and keep a note stock of all the things that I really liked and then would test it out. I also did leadership trainings. I would just be really vocal to my managers. This is an area of interest for me. We have learning development budget. Like where can I go? So I was definitely in the driver's seat of trying to learn about how to be a good manager. And I was also really motivated to do that as an IC because I wasn't quite aligning with my manager and that had never happened before. Yeah. I love that idea of being in the driver's seat, taking charge of your own development. And then I think you're highlighting a really important point that people often miss, which is the experimenting, the testing, the implementation. I like this idea or this concept and I'm going to actually deliberately bring that into my day to day work and iterate on it. That is something that showed up in the feedback that I got from your direct reports about how you want to show up for your team, challenging them to be their best and pushing them to be their best. And it's something that I'm really curious about because they said Morgan has super, super high expectations, like crazy expectations. Morgan is super aggressive. Like Morgan likes to win. Morgan will drive. I want to be the best version of myself for Morgan. I'm like, oh, it'll scared. But also I'm really protected, really safe, really cared for, having so much fun. And so I think it's really cool and it's all too rare when people are feeling both of those things because I think something that holds a lot of managers back from being that bold, challenging leader with super high expectations is because they fear it will make them dis- liked or disconnected from their team. So the fact that you're able to do all of that at once is huge. And I'd love to know how do you strike that balance or integrate those things as a leader. Yeah, I do hold my team to a very high bar. But I think it goes over well or they're accepting of it because I also hold myself to a really high bar. I really wouldn't ask them to do something that I wouldn't do myself. I'm fortunate to be in a leadership position of a team that I have done almost every single role. It's some point in my career. So I can go in and do it with them or show them. So I think that's like number one. I am willing to do the work myself. I am always going to give 150%. So it doesn't feel like I'm asking for things that I won't do myself. The second thing is the trusting environment is important to me. One thing that a former direct report always told me is I know where I stand with you at all times. There's no bullshit, there's no dancing behind words, but complemented with I really care about you as a human. So I always try to understand where my direct reports are like truly trying to go with their career. Always asking, "Hey, is this project feeling your cup?" Like trying to help them actually realize what they want to do and then figuring out a path to get them there, even if that means not being on my team. So I think I am asking for a lot, but I'm always going to tell you how it is in a caring way and that I do honestly care about your career and getting you to the place that you want to go makes this environment where people are like, "Okay, cool, let's rock and roll." Yeah, so on the point of telling them how it is in a caring way, again, I think that's something that people really struggle with. And sometimes it comes off as too soft and they miss the message. And sometimes when people are trying to be direct, it can come off as harsh or uncaring. And it seems like from what your direct report said, you have a lot of finesse around those types of conversations. What advice do you give to people who are struggling to strike that balance? I will say that my mother is French. So I think I just grew up in an environment where I always heard it straight. So it's probably why it comes so naturally. And it's something I notice that I do is when I'm going to go into a high-states conversation where I'm giving critical feedback, because it could be slightly different for positive feedback. I warn them. I know that their fighter flight is going to go off the second. I'm going to have the conversation. So I say, "Hey, we're going to have a conversation right now. It might not make you feel like super well, but I want you to know that I believe in you. I love working with you and I want to help you get better. I just need to show you an area that's a gap that you can't see yourself and it would be unfair for me to let you continue without telling you this." So they sort of just like prepped them for what they were about to hear and then tell them what I'm seeing and then asking them a lot of questions so that ultimately they can get to the same conclusion that I'm telling them on their own terms and then sometimes long for a little moment of a tear if that's what's happening. Hey, totally normal. Like, cry it out, I'm not judging you. We're all human and so just kind of allowing them to feel their emotions, but then also letting them know that those feelings are going to last forever. Yeah, those emotions, those big reactions to feedback can be really scary to a lot of people and they want to run away, shut them down, or they're worried they are going to last forever or become contagious. And so I think the fact that you're like, "We're going to give it a moment. We're going to let it be and then we're going to move on is actually a really underrated manager leadership skill." Yeah. And then I think also maybe it's not in that exact moment, but I always then like to reciprocate and say, "What do you got for me? What can I be doing better? Tell me something that I don't see because they obviously can see things that I don't see either." Sure. And I like that framing around feedback where it's, "What are the things that you see that I am not aware of that I'm not tuned into?" So this idea of framing it as, "Hey, I see this gap. I've got gaps that I might not be aware of. You have gaps that you might not be aware of. We're here to spot them for each other. I think that's really interesting framing. One of the other things that came up, I asked your direct reports, "What is Morgan's superpower?" And they each gave me a very long list. But one of the things that came up a lot was your ability to really galvanize people and bring people along on the journey. And they talked about really feeling that team camaraderie, signing up for the vision, being really motivated to execute it. But they also talked about how you do that with your peers, managing up all of the different audiences. This is probably connected to your marketing prowess. But I'd love to hear about how you approach that and what you have found works well for really bringing people along, especially in a startup world, where it's probably changing all the time. There's a lot of chaos. So how do you do that? I think what a lot of leaders do that I've noticed is they sort of wait for the decisions to be made and like everything to be sorted before they start talking to their teams about things. I prefer to actually start having conversations and letting them know things that I'm thinking that may not be set in stone with the caveat that it's not set in stone and it could absolutely change. So that they have time to process and by the time that it gets to the point where it's like this is actually what we're doing or these are the changes that we're making. It's not springing something new on them. I have a lot of trust built in the people that report to me or have been on my team where I feel like I can't do that. So that's number one. A lot of it is just because I'm a marketer. I do a lot of updates and writing. I think half of the battle of convincing people that something's a good idea is by you coming across as being prepared and have done the work to look at the data, talk to customers, look at feedback, talk to other people internally to get their feedback to then come up with this idea. I do also think the third thing that I learned a lot when I was at GitHub is that's really when I became a director was the realization that the leaders they don't and they quite honestly shouldn't always be coming up with all of the ideas of what to be doing. And so when I was start to see opportunities I would lock arms with the directors around and go to them first and then get hyper aligned with them and then start managing up to the executives and being like me and five other directors want to do it this way. Are you game or not and sort of like yes or no? And then I mean what are they going to say like wow I pay you guys all this money your directors five of your singers a good idea let's do it. And so that became a lot easier to get things done or to get bring people along the journey. And on the topic of information sharing this is another thing that I think a lot of people struggle with. I get people asking a lot saying what's okay to share and what if I disagree with a decision from the top or in a startup what if I'm nervous about the future of the company. So what is your decision framework for what you share when and how tidy something has to be or what is okay or not okay to share with your team? I'm definitely more in the camp that most things are okay to share. There's obviously some things that you can share like there's going to be an organization change or a layout for things of that nature that really do need to stay at the executive level but when I know that someone's job their day to day job is going to change or a large portion of their focus for the quarter is going to change I like to start talking to them about it early. And even asking their opinion like what if we did it this way what do you think about that? I definitely like to hire people that are smarter than me in the area that I'm hiring them for so why would it not listen to their opinion on something makes a lot of sense. And actually on that topic of hiring you have had several people who have followed you from one company to the next across multiple changes and I think that is the definition of true leadership you know outside of formal authority people want to follow you they want to be in your orbit. So the people that I talk to are all very different from each other they have different skillsets they're a diverse group all clearly very smart but very different from each other and I am curious how do you spot that kind of talent and decide that this is somebody you want to invest in. I think the common trait that I look for is someone that truly has that burning desire to be the best and it makes change of what they want to be the best in but like they have that fire in them and then I'm really just there to be like okay let me move things out of the way to help you get there faster and it gives you as many of the tools as I possibly can from my own toolkit to help you achieve those goals. I call it like Formula One drivers. Formula One drivers? Yeah I just, someone that wants to get in the driver's seat of their own life. I'm just like okay. - Hey, and that's where the drive it like you stole. - Drive it like you stole it. - I love it. I do. That's amazing. Okay, so what does the fire look like? What are the behaviors that would tell you someone has that fire? - Someone that's very proactive. Someone that has a clear understanding of what they're trying to do next or is expressing that maybe they don't know and they need help, but they want something more. So someone that reads and is just trying to get better in their craft. Like I love when someone on the team whether it's my direct reporter, or Skiploveral, or whatever, it's just being articles like, "Look what I read, what do you think?" I'm like, "Oh, yeah, it's okay. Let's talk about it." - So it really is initiative and curiosity is the other thing I'm hearing there. - Yes, yes, definitely. - Your director, Ports, called you so many wonderful, happy things, but one of the things that was consistent is they talked about how you are almost superhuman, having it all together, completely unflappable, really on top of everything, a ton of executive presence. They were like, "How does Morgan do it?" And so what I feel curious about is how much that matches with your own internal experience of being at these companies and how you think about what you are projecting to the team. - Yeah, it's important to me that I show up to work and for my team in a very similar way that I show up for my family or my friends, or people that I meet outside of work. So it is truly authentic. I don't always have things together, but I do like to be prepared. I like to be organized. I don't like process for process sake, but I like to be structured in my day. If you look at my calendar event, there's a method to the madness. And outside of work, take a lot of time for rest. If I'm really stressed out, maybe I'll take two baths that day just to unwind. - But no, I think that's an important thing that you're highlighting because that's also something people struggle with. - Oh, yeah. I like to start work early so that I can even end my day early, really try not to respond to things in the evening. I love vacation. I take it a lot. - No, but this is actually super important. We have this hustle culture that we live in, and especially in startups, there is this busyness, this back-to-back meeting culture, this tendency to like feel the pressure to work all the time. And I see a lot of people talking about rest, but not necessarily walking the walk. And I think it's cool that you're bringing this up because it's important, but it is a little like contrarian in a way to actually do it. - I do remember I was walking in New York with a girl who was not on my team, but essentially dotted line. And we were talking about how it was going on another vacation. And she was like, how many vacations do you take? I was like, I like to take one week every quarter. And she was like, oh, well, that means that an entire month out of the year, you're taking vacation. I was like, yeah, but sometimes during the week, I'm working more than 40 hours. So if we want to like do all of the math, it's going to all shake out in the end, but I need it so that I come back to work and I'm not burnt out. And then the next time I saw her, she's like, I'm taking a vacation and I told my partner that you take vacations every quarter. - I love it. - I was like, hell yeah. - Yes, yes. - Take it. - I think the fact that you're doing this probably also to your point gives permission to the team to do it. I'm curious, how do you navigate that with the CEOs and the managers? Has that ever been an issue with anyone that you've worked with or reported into? - No, never been an issue because I like to be prepared and structured, do it in my normal time. Like I make sure that the team knows exactly what they're doing when I'm out. So I've never gone on vacation, not prepared. So I always feel good about it when I'm out. - Yeah, that's amazing. And you mentioned that there's a method to the madness with the calendaring and the organization, getting the rest you need and it coming across to the team as you being 100% on top of everything at all times. This is like the dream formulas. So you need to tell the rest of us how to do this. - Well, so I put my calendar when I start my day and when I'm just catching up on Slack, it's like my reading, it's my newspaper. And I stick to that every single time. I also put a lot of blocks on my calendar for focus work and I honor it as well. And sometimes I'll end up working on something else during that block and that's okay. But I do largely like to mute my Slack notifications during that time so I'm not getting distracted. And I would normally even tell people on my team get off that completely during those blocks. Because the company will take and take and you have to protect your time and make sure you have those inflow moments. So for people that have like large teams and maybe managing different types of teams within an organization, I do structure my one-on-ones interest aim where I have the revenue marketing side of the team on Tuesdays and the more brand product, customer or corporate marketing side of my team on Wednesdays. So that I also am not context switching across topics so much and it's staying somewhat in the same vein on those two days. And then I like to say no reoccurring meetings on Thursdays and Fridays. - Okay, so those are totally blocked for ad hoc things and deep work? - Yeah, exactly. There was a time where I even experimented going back to what we're saying, I read it in a book. There was like reoccurring meetings are a trap. Clear everything off of your schedule and just allow people to book time when they need it. And it did work, I think, in the sense that people were more vocal of what they needed from me when and they came to those meetings prepared because they were asking for the time. But I like having time with my team. So those are the only meetings that I did end up deciding to add back on a reoccurring basis because startups get busy and you don't always compare to your one-on-one but once you're there, you have a lot to talk about. - Totally. - Okay, one of the other things I wanted to talk to you about is this idea of the unflappability. People talked about how you have a very thick skin and your low drama and a lot of people will refer back. Morgan will just be like moving on to the next thing, moving on to what we need to do, moving on to our priorities. And you mentioned that this is kind of your personality to some degree, but can you walk us through how to be more like that in a startup world? Because I think it gets very easy for people to get on the ride of the emotional roller coaster and it feels like you're really good at watching the ride. Does it let it go? - Yeah, so a couple of things. The first thing is I did truly build my career and spent the most time doing revenue marketing or growth marketing. And so it's easier to just keep moving because you have a target and you gotta hit it and things that happen around that are distraction to hitting that goal, you can easily ride off 'cause you're like, no, it's not gonna help me hit pipeline targets. And then people will also let you not get dragged into distractions. So that's just been something that helped me stay hyper focused and not get dragged along, but I read a book. I was talking a lot about the bounce back and how quickly you go from like the top of the circle and then go around the circle and then end up where you are. And so I just started thinking about that all the time. How quickly can I bounce back? Because as Cynthia would say, a girl on my team at Versaille that you know is not that deep. Versaille and B2B SaaS. We gotta keep it moving. So I think sometimes taking a step back and reminding yourself that work is just work is a job. It doesn't fully define you as a human being. Problems arise, but usually a month from now you forget all about them so don't think about it too much. - No, I like this bounce back because you're not saying the things don't bother you. You're not saying I'm completely rising above it all. Things might annoy you, things might bother you. You're saying that's normal, that's human. It's about not getting dragged down in the cycle. Almost like the moment for the emotion that you talked about in the feedback and how my moment, okay, I'm gonna bounce back. I'm almost picturing you like working out that muscle, building that muscle, that bounce back muscle over time so that when you do take a hit, you don't experience the lack time around it. - Yeah, when I take a hit, I look at that feelings wheel and I'm like, okay Morgan, what are you? Angry, from there, what are you? From there, what are you? - Okay, it's that specific thing that I'm feeling right now. Let's bounce back. - Like this is an individual solo reflection exercise. - Yes. And what does this do for you? - For me, it just helps me really pinpoint what I'm feeling and then I recognize it. I know why I'm feeling that way. It's not gonna last forever. So let's just move forward. - Okay, so you're like, I am enraged. I am exasperated. I am frustrated. I am disappointed. And then you just let yourself have it. And then that's it. Sometimes I also use it to reach out to the person that maybe made me feel that way. And I say, listen, did some reflecting, I'm feeling this and this is why I don't know if you've been to do it, but as a result, I'm here. I just wanna say, just want you to know, but we're totally fine and let's move forward. What is the typical response to that? Usually appreciative. Because it's not like you are this, you are that is just, hey, you did something that I don't think you intentionally made me feel this way, but I am feeling this way now. So I wanted to let you know, but it's not going to last forever. We can keep moving forward. Yeah, this concept of it's not going to last forever. It is such a nugget of wisdom because this is why so many people don't want to go there. There's a worry that we're going to get stuck there. It's going to be contagious. There's going to be no way out. And it's almost like you diffuse it by giving it its moment, by not trying to shove it down or white and ugly. That's like the Jedi trick here. I know we have to end in a minute, but I did want to ask you about your lingo, your vocab. One thing that came up a lot was that there is like a whole Morgan language that you use catch phrases, emojis. And I just had to ask you about it because it came up so much. Is it deliberate? How do you think about this? And what is a good sort of Morgan is that you love that you would leave us with? I definitely have a lot of weird lingo. I do think going back to the original question of like how do you hold a high expectations? But people still feel really safe. One thing that I've made a very conscious decision of as I've moved up in my career and in leadership roles is still keeping it really casual in how I speak. I think for a lot of marketing leaders, they put periods at the end of their sentences and capitalize things correctly. I don't. It's just me. I'm talking to you like I would text my mother using emojis, abbreviating words. I'm not worried about being super polished in my writing, but I'm worried about being thoughtful in what I'm saying. I do use emojis a lot. I love emojis who doesn't love emojis. But I think the thing that's like so Morgan is I say meow. Meow? When I say yeah, I write meow. And it started actually when I was at change.org. I was obsessed with pandas and so they bought me this huge panda that sat in the chair next to me. So that kind of started this, oh, I can just be myself at work and people are going to be into that. And I remember I got all my performance review Morgan's cookie. And everybody was a good thing. Yeah. It was a positive section. Yeah. Yeah. And so I would sign off my emails as now. I would go meow, comma, Morgan. And then it started going into Slack where I would sign off. I would say something now Morgan. But now I actually start with meow. No, it's a greeting. My direct reports right now at first sell would say that I saved meow. And then I follow up with something that is something I don't like. And so they get a little afraid when I say meow because we followed with something else. So I'm trying to switch it up. I love this. And Cynthia told me that you called dashboards dashies. Dashies. Anything that just makes it a little less uptight. Okay. But what I love about this is I was asking them about you. I never met you. And I was going out and saying, what is Morgan like? And they're like, she's aggressive. She's a winner. She's a goner. She's a driver. And she says, dashies. And like, you know, it does all these things. And I was loving this because it's just holding it all at one time. And I think it's so clear you have this style that is so you. And it has been so successful and so effective. It's the dream for so many people who feel stuck or lost or can't quite navigate how to integrate these different parts of themselves. And so we all have so much that we can take away from that. And I'm really excited that all the people who haven't followed you from one company to the next, the next to the next will get to listen to this and capture. And the insights and tactics that they can try, that you share with us today, that they then want to just experiment with. Yeah. Any final thoughts before we close? Pay attention and really give a lot of coaching to people that are early in their career. Because if you set them up for success then, it's so much easier later. And it's probably why I have such a great relationship with people that have followed me at multiple companies is because I know one of them I worked with when she was an intern other to when they were like associates or coordinators. But if you give them those recipes for success early on, the more they move up in their career, the less you have to do that and the more you can just lean on them to help you make all of these miracles happen at work. And I think it's just not something that we encourage people to do enough. Yeah. It has been a delight. It exceeded my very high expectations for the conversation based on everything your direct report said. And so thank you so much for being part of this project and for joining us today. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Well, meow, everyone. Here are some of my takeaways. Number one, Morgan's leadership playbook has three main parts. Set a high bar for yourself and then your team. Establish trust through clarity so everyone knows exactly where they stand at all times and figure out where your direct reports want to go and how you can help them get there. Number two, leave room for emotions, both yours and your teams because naming the feelings that are coming up is the key to processing them and moving through them. Number three, focus on the bounce back. It's not about being unflappable. It's about how quickly you can bounce back from the setbacks that inevitably come up. And number four, make it your own. Be okay standing out in whatever way feels authentic to you. Use your own lingo. Make things your own. Say meow. Whatever feels right, it will be fun and appreciated if it's authentically you. I would love to hear your takeaways from the episode. So please join our discussion on LinkedIn. You can learn more about Morgan via the links in the show notes. Thank you to Cynthia McGillis for nominating Morgan for the show. You're the best. And thank you to Morgan's direct reports for giving us your time and energy and feedback to make this a great conversation, including Angelica Ismilos, Liz Porsi, Elsel and Tan, Carmell Chattreat and Cynthia McGillis. You guys were all awesome and so fun to talk to. This has been a production of Fort Light and Now It's Here. I'm your host, Annie Riley. Our producer is Alexis Ramdow. If you liked this episode, please leave us a review and share it with a friend or colleague. This is a new project, so we'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much for your time and support and we will see you next week.