2928: Being Fat and Fit Is Objectively Better Than Being Skinny and Unfit — Here's the Data

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If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs? Or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, this might be controversial, but it's true. You're ready? Being fat and fit is better than being skinny and unfit. We're going to go through the data. We're going to break it down. We're going to explain to you that it's actually objectively better. Justin's been trying to tell us this for a long time. Fat ease, fat ease. Stop. Yeah, stop. So I think before we get into the conversation, we got to preface this with just some clarity, okay? Being over fat, so having a body fat percentage that's over a particular percentage. And when you look at the data, for men, you start to see this around 20%. For women, you might see this around 30%, give or take, depending on the person. It does have an effect on your health, okay? So regardless of your fitness level, having excessive body fat beyond a certain point, no matter what, has a negative effect on your health. So what we're not saying is that it's equal, everything's equal, it doesn't matter. But what we are saying is between the two. Just comparing those two. If you're overweight and fit, you're doing way better in most metrics, if not all metrics, than someone who is underweight and unfit. And the reason why we're talking about this is oftentimes we chase the underweight, unfit look because we think that's what's going to make us happier when, in fact, the data shows it's not true. Well, that's a large range, right? For men to be able to go all the way to 20%, women to go all the way to 30%, that gives you a lot of flexibility. And so, yeah, I would. I mean, in personal experience, I think I've felt the healthiest in the mid-teens, you know, where I have the best energy, the best sleep, the best overall strength. Also, the most easy to have a balanced lifestyle, too, as far as I can have the occasional drink with the wife at dinner, I don't have to be tracking and weighing everything. It's, I think, a relatively easy place to kind of manage and stay. Once you start trying to get yourself into, for a man, single digits, it becomes a job to stay that lean. And then I would argue that I am not the strongest, I don't sleep the best, I'm not the healthiest. But the only thing working for me at that point is the aesthetic piece, what you look like. Well, and even that we can even debate. So when you look at the data. On longevity, okay, the category of people, the categories, I should say, of people that have the worst longevity metrics, okay, are the very unfit and very obese and the frail and unfit. In fact, frailty is a higher risk factor in many cases, especially as you get older. So frailty is defined as like underweight and weak, right, no strength, weak. That has some of the worst mortality metrics that we see. So it's important to understand the two of them. Now, with longevity, when you look at the data, it's pretty wild because I pulled up some studies. I pulled up some of the best studies I could find around this. And here's what they find. Being unfit people in every BMI category had roughly two to three times higher risk of all-cause mortality. So being unfit anywhere increases your risk of all-cause mortality pretty significantly. Fit, overweight, obese individuals have risks similar to, or in many cases, similar to, obesity. Or in many cases, this is a meta-analysis, better than unfit, normal-weight individuals. So if you're a guy and you're walking around 15% body fat, so decent leanness, you're not overweight. But, you know, you just go to work. You just go to work, come home. You're not like working out. You're not fit. A guy who's 50 pounds heavier, okay, so 50 additional pounds of body fat, okay, which is a significant amount, but who's also fit, strong, and has some cardiovascular fitness, has similar or better, longevity metrics than you do. So that just goes to show how far being fit goes for people when it comes to longevity. 50 pounds? Yeah. Is this like our powerlifter kind of archetype? I wouldn't use that as an example because— It's still extreme. Yes. When we talk about like competitive athletes, we're now sacrificing longevity. Well, I mean maybe a weekend warrior. Yes. So what the data is— That's probably a better way to say it. Somebody who is not like a competitor. Yes. Aspiring kind of like heavy lifter. I'm glad you said that because in the data, what they're not showing or what they're not using is elite performance. Right. So when I say fit, I'm not talking about like I do triathlons or like I'm like the strongest guy in my gym type of deal. You lift and— That's right. Yeah. You're active. You're active. You work out consistently. You've decently fit in comparison to— I want to go back to the 50 pounds you said. Relative to what—you say you use a 15%. I'm picking up on that. I'm picturing my buddy who weighs probably about 170 pounds to 180 pounds and probably manages himself between 15% to 18% body fat and doesn't work out. Yeah. So he doesn't really eat good. He has a physical job that he does. He moves a lot and obviously doesn't crazy overeat. So he's got a somewhat active lifestyle but doesn't exercise, doesn't strength train. Yeah. At his body size, 170-ish. 50 more pounds. So it's not a perfect comparison because if someone—if your buddy did work out and exercise— Yeah. He'd also have more muscle on his frame. For sure. Yeah. The muscle really is the determining factor here for the most part. Strength. Yeah. Well, it's fitness. So I'm glad you said that, Justin. Well, I guess that's it. So I guess that's what I'm trying to get with this. I'm trying to— I'm giving a number— Yeah, yeah. —just to kind of paint a picture. Yeah. But what the data shows is obese. Okay. And then there's extreme obesity. So we're not there yet. But overweight/obese fit is better—is the same or better than normal weight person. Sure. So you're carrying a lot of body fat but you're still also carrying a decent amount of muscle. Which means— And you're fit. Which means he would have to be at—so, okay, the obese meter tips at what for men? 25? Yeah. They don't go by body fat percentage. They go by BMI. But let's just say he's at like—let's say he's at 24—let's say he's at 25. So let's say he's 15 now. Yeah. 25% body fat. Yeah, yeah. So you put— But he's athletic now. Now he can run, move, lift. So 50 pounds, he probably puts on 20 muscle, 30 fat. Maybe. Maybe. So just to— I don't know what body fat percentage that would put him at. Yeah, yeah. But let's just say he's 50 pounds heavier on the scale— Yeah. —and his body fat percentage went up to 25%. Yeah. But now he can move. He can run. He can lift. Yeah. He's as good, or a lot of the data shows, better than he is now. Yeah. And I'm going to argue he's better in other categories. Yeah. Not just longevity. The number one indicator there, or the one—the biggest needle mover there, I would think, is the lean tissue and what it does for you metabolically. 100%. From insulin sensitivity, from storage— Oh, yeah. We could really get into it. Yeah. Like, that is—I mean, one of the best parts of all the years of lifting, when I look back now, is the metabolic rate. The metabolic flexibility that I have today. The ability to be able to eat out of bounds a little bit. And literally, so I can have—I just did this last week. So last week, I was pretty low calorie. I could see how depleted I was. I was dropped like six, seven pounds on the scale. Also, the wife always comments, "You're looking skinny. I don't like—" I'm like, "Relax. I'm just depleted right now." She says that to you? Like, "Don't worry. I'll eat a sandwich and you'll see a difference." My wife would never say that. Oh, Katrina. Because she knows what it'll be like. She knows your butt. She knows I've worked through that. So it's okay, right? I said, "Honey, I'm not." I said, "I'm down a few pounds, but it's mostly water and glycogen." Now you're leaving your shirt on. What are you guys getting into? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My Winnie the Pooh thing. Double shirts. Yeah, you know that's how I do that. Turn the lights off. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, we— so then we go we had the you know we had the the car event this last weekend so we we were at hotels eating out had drinks did a thing and i even had i told you we ordered that uh that movie thing the oh yeah whatever so i had desserts i hadn't done that in a while and just i mean everything filled out and she's and it's not body fat oh yeah it's not body fat i didn't do it yeah i didn't do anything the next day she's like oh my god you look oh you look amazing she'd give me i'm like yeah i just ate a bunch of calories and filled out all those muscle billies and what you were looking at or commenting on four days before is what it looks like when i stay low calorie for a while and deplete everything it's just wild that and why i'm bringing this up is because how do i if i didn't have those muscle bellies i didn't have that muscle i worked all that extra eating on a day like that goes over spills and goes into storing body fat where the person who's put on 20 pounds of muscle now have these giant like uh vessels of storage that the person without those 20 pounds doesn't have and to be clear when you look again i know i'm oversimplifying no you are but trying to make it but you painted a very clear picture and again to be clear when you look at the data we're looking okay lean body mass is very important but what's more important is fit lean body mass okay because when you look at the the studies on like mortality risk or longevity what they're testing is the output it's strength or it's vo2 they're not looking at you have this much muscle on your body now having more muscle oftentimes most of the time translates to better fitness better strength better mobility but it has to be active but it's got to be fit yeah is what it is because you could have somebody with just genetically more muscle but out of shape yeah totally unfit and they're not going to get the protective benefits as somebody who has less muscle let's say but it's fit muscle yeah it's active muscle that's the big that's the big difference right right because you're because there's another layer to what i said too where i'm actually going and putting that muscle to work and i'm not going to be able to do that work all week which also is expending a lot more that's right what if you work out and do yeah so it's like there's you have these these these larger storage vessels that are also active storage vessels that need even more energy because you're going to go put them to work so it's like this it's a double win 100 this is also why too you hear us communicate this especially with so many callers are female callers that want to lean out or lose body fat is to build into the body you want versus trying to cut into the body you want far better off your quality of life is better uh you're you know trying to maintain being underweight uh and also being unfit we'll just call it frailty that's not a very good quality of life first of all you're first off oftentimes unless you have disease some kind of uh disease or eating disorder which is a whole separate category but and a lot of this we could say maybe tips into this but there's a lot of people who simply restrict now they might not be clinically diagnosed as having eating disorder but they're they're they're consistently afraid of gaining weight so they just kind of restrict themselves they don't really work out much they like the fact that they're quote-unquote skinny but they're frail their quality life is way worse than the same version of them who let's say has 10 more body fat but is also working out fit that brings tons of other things like energy and all that stuff but also the flexibility of like i'm not so afraid you're so vulnerable that's right i mean even to like any kind of like virus or um you know obviously it's going to affect your bones to that level where you know other people are going to be like oh my god i'm not going to tissue gets affected because you're not expressing uh you know let that resistance against force and so yeah you're kind of leaving yourself susceptible for all kinds of uh you know potential injuries and sickness the worst category of people uh as defined by people who have the highest risk of complications from surgery or chronic illness are people who are frail yep it's the worst you're going in to get surgery and you're frail oh or you get a major uh you get a big illness and you're already frail recovering is is a nightmare it's not good and let's also look let's look again this is just numbers you guys if you look at the the percentage of people who get diabetes or heart disease or cancer who are normal weight or underweight okay because we know that being over fat independent of anything else now if you're fit it really does a lot for this but just to a certain extent being over fat uh is a risk factor risk factor for diabetes heart disease and yet there is a significant percentage not a majority but it's a significant percentage to the tune of tens of millions of people in america who are this or normal weight or underweight who still get heart disease cancer and diabetes and they're all unfit all of them you know you you keep saying uh frailty right and i think most people's minds automatically go to like the old yeah old we got a lot of frail not old people do you so you remember do you guys remember the first time you experienced this i was only i was like i want to say i was like 22 so i'm only like two years you're into being a personal trainer and uh i got this i think she was a um was she a cheerleader she was a cheerleader or a model real pretty real pretty thin real thin pretty girl and i'm taking her body she's hired me for training and i'm taking her body fat percentage and i thought i was doing something wrong because of how high her body fat percentage was because she looked very skinny right and and yet i kept i get no muscle and i kept i kept doing it over and over like you know trying to keep cool like i knew what i was doing i'm going like this isn't look this isn't adding up first time i'd ever experienced that from that direction i experienced the other direction too where somebody was like super ripped and i thought they were going to be bigger too so it's been i remember both those big extreme examples of someone like that and and i remember asking her about her diet and she ate like celery yeah like to keep her weight yeah she under ate celery and i remember asking her about her diet and she ate like celery yeah like all forever to just to keep her her weight down like that she was hiring me to help her build some muscle and stuff but i couldn't believe how high of a body fat percentage somebody so skinny could be and it and it blew my mind that's the first time experience i was like 22 i've obviously experienced it oh yeah we had other other times i've had many clients and i had so i've told this story a long time ago if you guys remember this but i got to train um what one of the 49ers wives oh yeah yeah and he uh some guy yeah yeah simone wife it was the first time ever i was so like i've gotten as we all probably have really good at looking at someone and being able to put the scale within probably five or ten pounds trainer skill yeah yeah and i would crush those circuits yeah yeah i'm so good at that i'm so good and i've gotten really really dialed in and i'm also smart enough to know if i get one of my female clients on there i if i'm i'm guessing with an overshoot i'm gonna undershoot yeah i'm gonna be smart about it and i'll never forget this girl gets on here right she's a samoan chick and uh i could tell she's you know she's pretty thick you know and i'm like uh you know in my head i'm going she's probably 170 or so but i'm gonna start at like 155 160 you know what i'm saying so i i put other things not moving i'm like slide it over five more slide it over some more she's 201 pounds okay but her body fat percentage is crazy lean she's in she's in like the lower like athletic percentile and when she lift her shirt up for me you're thinking abs yeah but just a brick house dude and like so wild to see that but just shows you how different body types and different levels of weight like weight does so this girl's 200 pounds but super lean but just yeah all muscle well there's also this piece too which is and how many times we have callers i'll just illustrate this how many times we have callers where we tell them to increase their count first off it's often we get a little bit of a self-selection bias of people that tend to restrict right because they're fitness uh enthusiasts they listen to the show they call them for help all we do is have them oftentimes bump their calories and they come back and what do they say i've got way more energy it's transformative i feel so different yeah calories ladies and gentlemen is energy yeah if you're not taking in enough if you're taking in just enough to survive because you're constantly restricting yourself you don't have extra energy to give you uh confidence yeah or creativity to build or libido or energy to do anything else you feel crappy a lot and tired a lot and maybe depressed or anxious a lot and it might just be you're not taking in enough nutrients yeah and we just had a caller earlier a guy the biggest reason for plateaus it is and we had a guy just on who we bumped his calories a thousand and he comes back on he's like oh my god i'm way more energy i didn't gain it didn't gain a pound on the scale didn't gain a pound on the scale uh what did that extra 60 60 days of a thousand calorie increase that's a lot of energy that's right and if you're not taking in enough calories and you're tired just doing your regular day god forbid you add exercise on top of that right and now you don't get any of the benefits of exercise you're not fueling yourself and exercise is the most powerful antidepressant that we know of so being fat and fit gives you more energy and a better outlook and a better attitude and a better mood you're not going to get the benefits of the exercise if you're not feeding it 100 giving it the nutrients to recover so yeah it's kind of futile you also have less pain yeah being frail will make you hurt more period end of story risk of injury goes through the roof your cns is constantly trying to protect your joints because of the instability caused by your frailty um because you're not feeding yourself enough and so you're moving in ways that aren't optimal and you wonder why these you get repeated injuries or tweaks or pain uh being fit and strong uh of course with the proper training means you have way less pain but that look is so such a powerful force i'm glad i'm glad you brought that up justin because i looked up the data how much does looking beautiful actually contribute to happiness when you separate it from, uh, other factors, right? Uh, because they could say looking beautiful makes it more likely that you'll attract somebody who will want to date you. So there's relationship value. There's a, you know, when you separate all that out, just looking better, uh, versus looking not as good. Um, and which will, which I'm going to argue anyway, but let's just say this objectively. We'll dispel that. Uh, it's actually a low, uh, contributed to happiness. In other words, it barely budges the number. So if you're a six and you spend all your time and energy to get up to a nine, you're going to go up maybe a little bit. Is it fair though, to tease those other things out? It is. Why? It is totally fair. Why is that fair? Because if you can, you put, let me put it as a, how much of that, which we're going to get to is a result of how you view yourself versus, uh, how other people actually view you. In other words, is your confidence and, and you going out and you talking with people and your energy and the fact that you feel better because you're stronger and the fact that you have more flexibility with your diet. So you're going out with people and you're socializing. How much of that plays a role in you having friends? Projected confidence. A hundred percent. I mean, that's a fair argument. Yes. Yeah. It's a fair, it's hard to tease that out though, in my opinion, just because you got to, if somebody, and again, playing to this devil's advocate with you, because you got somebody who improves their self from a six to a nine. Um, we know what it does in sales, we know what it does for attracting a mate, all those other things, which then also make you could make you happier too. So it's hard to just completely. So it's like, let me throw around now in a perfect world. Okay. Uh, in, you know, I think about this as a father, the number one thing that I could give my son is confidence. Like I want to give him self-confidence, forget what everybody else thinks, like be, be confident in who you are. And, and then that having that trickles to all the other things, right? You, so I know the value of that, but to just take away, to, to, to separate someone going from a six to nine to how that improves their relationship values with friends or relationship with friends, with the opposite sex, with all the things. Let me throw a wrench at that. What you're saying, I'm gonna throw a wrench at that machine. Uh, you attract a mate based on your beauty. Are you going to have a good relationship? If it's just based on your beauty, that's your number one, this is it. Well, again, that's not fair to say that either is to say like it, we, we all use our eyes. Okay. Those of us that are not blind. We do. To the first thing, but when you first saw your wife, you didn't see her brain. You didn't see, you saw she was attractive, which made you then communicate, talk to her. That's then led you to all the other beautiful things about her. But again, I'll add to that. The happiest marriages, not to go off on a tangent, the happiest marriages are people in their sixties who have been together for a long time. Yeah. No, I don't, I don't disagree with that. You built, you built, your love has grown. You build a relationship, but let's be honest. If Jessica was a two, you wouldn't have approached her. Well, so again, let me, let me add to that. When we talk about this, I mean, you wouldn't have, well, let me, let me, let me, let me add to that. When we talk about this, what we see, what we're really dark. I know what we typically, what we typically consider is like extremes. We think of like extreme beauty, extreme, not, not good looking. Yeah. Most people are somewhere in the middle and devoting all their time and energy to try to accomplish what they think looks good, which results oftentimes in skinny and unfit does not contribute to happiness. And when you add everything else up contributes to being less happy, but, let's talk about the objectiveness of the beauty. Let me give you guys a scenario, a 29% body fat woman with muscle versus a 20% body fat woman who is frail all day. Yeah. All day. Which one's more attractive. Yeah. Give me the one that has shape to her for sure. And they do this with women. Yeah. When women look at pictures of men, 10% frail, uh, 18, 19, 20% muscle women almost always, if not every time pick the heavier, fatter guy who's got some muscle. So this is a little false. This belief that we have is false. And people who, who restrict themselves to this skinny, frail kind of place have this belief that it maybe is making them look better. But yeah, no, I, I mean, I don't, I don't disagree with that. I think that we ha I think everyone has, not everyone that's over simplification, but I think a lot of people have a distorted view, totally of their own, their own, their own body. I also think it creates behaviors within that parameter. So if I'm like restricting, restricting, and then like, you're, you're gonna bleed that into your relationship, 100%, like the way you're interacting is gonna affect, you know, the longevity of that relationship. Yeah. And again, just, okay. And we'll talk extremes. Although 99.9% of people are not in the extremes who are listening, but we know very, we know some very beautiful people in the fitness space, uh, who have lots of followers through the extremes. Nobody looks like them. Okay. And they're, they're, they're popular because of how they look. And, but a lot of them are very unhealthy and miserable. Yeah. So my, my point is I don't think they're objectively more beautiful. I can make that argument all day, but even if it was, it doesn't contribute to what you think is gonna contribute. And I think the, the direction of this is like, look, like if you're like really, I think you're, I think, I think we need a better study. Cause I think like, I think there's also a lot of potential on the other end. I, I think, I think it, like it moves the, I think, I think it's a lot like the wealth curve. I think like the difference between poverty and having all your needs met is life changing. Yeah. The difference between having all your needs met and being a millionaire and then a millionaire to a billionaire incremental, hardly anything. And the, the sacrifice, the work, the effort and everything to do all those things, diminishing return, arguably more miserable because you get there and it's, it doesn't make you happy. I think the, the, uh, whatever sexiness curve, whatever you wanna call it is similar to that. It's like going from completely outta shape, not taking care of yourself. Ugly we'll say to like relatively attractive. Like you're like, uh, how about you just say fit and healthy. Okay. Fit and healthy. That's right. Right. So that say relatively attractive. Okay. Cause that's, that's a result of being fit and healthy. Right. So, so that versus you getting cosmetic surgery, getting shredded to 90%. Like I, so if any return very incremental, arguably probably negative return from, I think it, it probably follows something like that. And again, here's the point, like, and I'll ask you guys this question. If you could snap your fingers and make one of these things true, which one do you think would make, uh, America or the world healthier? Uh, make everybody, uh, keep everybody at a relatively higher body fat percentage, but really fit or just get everybody skinny, get rid of seed oils, the world. I guess the, the, the, uh, at the end of this is this, like if you worked out and you ate to become more fit and healthy, you'd be way happier and you'd get better results. And the side effect would be, you'd actually look better anyway. Yeah. That's one of those things. And that's why I opened this with the controversial being fat and fit is better. I like it. I like that. It's controversial, but of course you like it, my wheelhouse, you guys be happy. Eat food. You know what I mean? Yeah. Enjoy yourself. Anyway, I got to speaking of workouts. Did you guys watch the video? Adam sent of, I think it's a hottie Chupa Chopin. Am I saying his name? Right? Oh my God. You know what I didn't do was I didn't do the math. Did you do the math? Yeah. They're 25. You didn't see that. So he does our group texts and pull up. I did see it. Yes. I came across it and you know, it, it, it, it hooked me. Cause I was just, in my opinion, there's a few times in bodybuilding history when a bodybuilder did something that's legendary in the gym that everybody talks about. Like one of them was Tom Platt's squatting one 35 for 30 minutes straight. Oh my God. That was one. Or when he did three 15 for like 50 reps, it was like a couple where Tom Platt's did something insane. This goes up there. Quadzilla. Okay. Give me the number. How many plates are there? So there's a 25. Then they add a 25. I never counted them out. Oh, three. They're just adding 45. Bro. He does this. He does this 35 or 25. What are those? They're 25. So they keep adding 25. And he does, I don't know. Doug, can you count the plates? It's like eight or nine right now. Dude, what kind of bar is that? So now, Oh, it gets better. Ready, bro. He does this. He does this two or three times. So nonstop, nonstop. What? So what he's doing for people who are not watching this, uh, on YouTube and they're peeling it off. This is a bodybuilder. He does it like two or three times. He doesn't stop down the ladder. He didn't stop. He goes back up again. He does squats. He's got a bar. It's a Smith machine. They're adding how many total 25s they go to? Uh, 20. There's 20 total plates. So they do up to 500 pounds. So he's doing one rep with one 25, another rep with an additional. So it goes all the way up to 10 plates side. Then they take one off and he does a rep with each one all the way down. Then they add them and he goes all the way up. Then they take them off and he goes all the way down. He does like two or three rounds of a rep. This was so much cooler if it was a real squat. This stop it. You can't pyramid that bro. Stop it. Just talk crap about what he's doing. No, you cannot talk crap about that. You cannot talk crap about that. This is definitely legendary. Yeah. I don't think I could do that with two and a halves. I mean, I'm just saying if you put two and a halves all the way up on each side, like that many body weight squats, we get both. I'm not alone in this. That is a, it's crazy. That's crazy. I wanted to do it. So I didn't, I mean the, yeah, his legs explode. That's just, it's a feat of strength. That is just, you're the one with all the tools over there. What is the, what is the math on that real quick? So you said 10 on each side, 22. That's 500 pounds. So, wow. So he's working up to a hundred. So it goes from 150. So all the way to 500 and then down in increments of 50. You It's essentially he starts at almost 100, goes incrementally up to 500, incrementally down to 100, incrementally up to 500 several times, and does a rep each time along the way. Insane as a lot. That is crazy. Yeah. Have you guys, what would you guys, okay, I got to ask you guys this. Tell me the most legendary thing you've ever done. I haven't done anything legendary with this. Nothing cool. Well, I know Justin has. You're right. I know you haven't. Let's ask Justin. Fuck you. I don't want to brag, dude. I've done some pretty cool T-bar row stuff. I've done some cool T-bar row stuff. I took my shirt off and some girl said something. Oh, stop it. All right. Well, Justin, you've done something for sure. I have one for myself, but I got to hear yours first because I won't say mine if yours is just so crazy. Well, I don't know. I don't even know what I would attribute to that other than like the PRs like I've done back in the day. No, I've leg pressed all the way up and down. You've done that? Yeah, yeah. We've all the way to fill the plates up before. That's brutal. And come down. That's brutal. I've done a T-bar row. I think I got up to five plates and then worked my all the way down like that. That's pretty brutal. Those are the coolest feats I have. There's one thing I did once that I felt for three weeks. I felt it for three weeks, okay? I did 315 for deadlifts. I did 10 reps, 10 sets, one minute rest in between. So I do 10, timer, one minute, 10, timer, one minute, 10 sets. Of? 315, 10 reps. Oh, my God. I've done that. I was fried. I've done that with 135. I've done that with 135 and been fried. Oh, yeah. So one of my – I think I talked about this on the podcast a long time ago. When I have a layoff and I come back to 135 squats and I just do 10 sets. We're just short. And I do 10 reps. 10 reps of 10 and I would do it for – that would be my entire workout. Okay. That sounds worse than what I do. I did 30 agonies. How about that? What's that? It's this hill that's like this incline and you sprint. And it's like probably like 40 yards. And you do 30? 30. Oh, yeah. And it's lame. That fucking sucks. Oh, you can't do that. Oh, so you went running. Sprinting. It's not running. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. I once dove down with like seven life vests on me down to the bottom. No, you didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to do this. Wait, wait, wait. You put seven life – have you ever done that with weights at the bottom of the pool So we used to have – I've told you this before. I've done that too. We've had to – where we go camping every year. Remember that I used to talk about the Trinity trip we do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So we always had like Trinity games and we'd make up all these ridiculous games. And they were all ridiculous. The rock can, there was radio, there was like all these – and one of them was life vest diving. And of course, we have all these friends that are out there. So we all have boats. So we got as many life vests as you could possibly want. And right off the pier is about 10 feet of water to the bottom. And you have to put a life vest on and then dive down and grab. It's a handful of mud and grass to prove that you went all the way down the ground. And you start with one life vest and two life vests. So you did seven? Yeah. So the guy who had the most – so if you can imagine, I have all these life vests on me diving down to the bottom to shoot you back up. So that was like a big feat for me. Well, I did something that I'm going to say right now you guys are going to laugh at because it's not that impressive. But it was for me. Yeah. I was like 16 and I had my BMX bike. And my old junior high had a stage that was about – from the ground to the stage, if you're not going up the stairs, it was about 16. Seven feet maybe? Did you bunny hop it? I jumped off the stage onto the grass and hurt myself. Oh, wow. But I did do it. But I did injure myself. I was like, oh, that doesn't feel – rode my bike up. What about you, Doug? You're awfully quiet over there, huh? I am quiet because I have absolutely nothing to contribute here. Well, you killed someone besides that. Well, don't put that out there. Not true, people. Not true. With his bare hands. Which is a lot of work, you know? I've been a pretty, I guess, sedate type of a life. Well, you deadlifted – Highly. I was just going to say – Oh, you deadlifted 405 out of body weight. Yeah, his body weight to deadlift ratio is probably better than any of ours. I was 153 at the time. I did 405. With a 400-pound deadlift. 405 deadlift. Yeah. Yeah, that's better than – so my peak was 550 and I was 200-something pounds. So he's better than me on that. I'll throw this in there. I knew he had more. When I was at San Jose State, I was on the rugby team for a minute. And it was the very first practice I ever went to. I had no idea how to tackle. So I would just, you know, assumed I was going to tackle. I didn't know how to tackle with the same technique for football. Just blasted me. And they put me against the biggest guy. He was probably like 300 pounds. And they had this one drill. And it's exactly like what you guys see now from Run It. You know that sport? Oh, where you just smash into each other. You run full sprint at each other. He had the football and I was the tackler. And he thought, for sure, this is going to be easy. You know, and like he was just going to run me over. And everybody was around hyping it up and everything. And I literally took his cleats off the ground and put them on his back. Oh, wow. And I – It hurt my shoulder so bad. Oh. Yeah. Do you tell your boys these stories? Huh? No. You don't? What? Well, I don't – I mean – That's a dad story. I feel like that is too. I feel like if it comes up – Yeah, but I feel like I would – so if I had that story – You know how many stories I tell my kids? I tell Max stories at night, like every night. I would tell that story and then Max would ask me if it's real. I'd be like, that was your dad. That's your lord. That's your dad who did that. That's your family lord. Right. It wasn't like captured. Like the ones that like I have video, I'll show them that. I got to tell his story for them. I'm going to tell – you know what? That would be more powerful. I'm going to sit your boys down and tell them something. That would actually be more powerful. Let me tell them about your dad. Dude, he's already telling my kids like how much stronger he was than me. I was like, I know. That was one of the best – Bro. I got him so good when we were – that was in Truckee. Yeah, Truckee. He was like, can Adam really outlift you? I forgot what your boy was ever when he was little. God, he must have been Max's age at that time. You affected him with that. Yeah, he did for sure. Because his son was like getting – getting to get me so that I forgot. I said something like, careful, I'll manhandle you like your dad or like I knew your dad or something like that. I can't remember what I said to him. I said something like that. It made an impression on them. They were like, wow, Adam's like super strong and Hulk-like. My dad always told me stories about himself growing up, which was cool when I went to Sicily because other people told me the same stories. It kind of confirmed it. That's cool. And then I tell my kids stories about me all the time because it's just fun. It's just fun to tell those stories. Although you create a situation where your kids think – which is normal, right? Your kids think you're like the toughest guy. The toughest guy. Although my wife thinks that. Did I tell you guys about this? She's trying to get you into fights. Dude, she thinks we were hanging out. We were hanging out. Every time when you tell that story, I think of The Way of the Gun, that opening scene. No, I didn't know that. This is really – come on. You've shown it to us before. Yes, I've shown it to you before. It's one of the best opening scenes ever. It's the girlfriend. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy's got like long, full hair. From White Man Can't Jump. It's the same lady, right? What's the name of – Oh, I think it is. It might be her. I'm not sure. Yeah, I remember that. Dixiel Del Toro is leaning on the car with his buddy, and they're talking. No, I was talking to my wife, and she's like, we were talking about jiu-jitsu, and I said, yeah, man, but I won't compete in the normal category because I'll be going against a bunch of 20-year-old dudes. And she's like, well, isn't that better? I'm like, what? No. She's like, but you're like a grown man. I'm like, can't you beat them up? Like, no, babe. Like, they're 20-year-old dudes. And then we were talking about – 25-year-old dudes are pretty grown men, too. And then we were talking about like somebody we know who's a black belt in jiu-jitsu, right? And we're about the same size. And she's like, but you can beat them, right? I'm like, no, honey, he's a black belt. He'll kick my butt. And she's like, no, he can't. I'm like, you must think I'm like – which is kind of cool. My wife thinks I'm like the toughest guy in the world. All three of you, including you over there, buddy, if you could go back to an age where you thought you were peak alpha of you, like strength. Oh, with like physical alpha. Physical alpha. Because I'm way more alpha now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course now. But I mean like what age were you, you think, who were like peak don't fuck with Sal? 20 for me. I would say – 20? Dang. Oh, dang, that's definitely not me. No, not me. Yeah, not me either. Mine was like – I'm a late bloomer. Mine was late 20 or early 30s. I'm like 28. Yeah. Yeah, I'm like 28, 29. That's where I'm like peak like all of it. 20? No, no, yeah, that's young. Oh, yeah. Wow. I was a force of nature back then. Wow. There you go. No longer humble. I lost it, dude. Peak. Crazy decline after that. Yeah, bro. Doug, what about you? Probably 48. Because you can't remember all the way back to 20. Yeah, it's too long ago. I sometimes go back to the stone tablets just to remember. Hey, really? 48? No, I'm just kidding. Oh. I mean, you know, like when I was in 25 or something like that. What did you say? 25? 25, yeah. Are you just throwing a random number out there? I feel like you just picked something between me and Sal. No, no. I think 25 was like, you know, a peak like, you know, period for me. That's when he wrestled. He wrestled a stegosaurus. Yeah. Dude, that was peak anger for me. That's why I get attributed to that. Because then I chilled out after that. And then I didn't, yeah, it wasn't like, because, dude, anger on top of crazy physical, you know, ability, it was a bad combo. Yeah. Well, I was just, I was just going to say, I was like, if I ever, anything ever happens and my wife is there and I'm in an altercation, do not let me lose at all. I don't care how unfair it is. You jump in if that's possible. If you start to see your boy Sal. Of course, dude. Get a butt kick. Of course. I don't want to crush her. I wouldn't even wait. I don't want my wife. I would, I just, I'd want her to still think like he, he could have taken a bite. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Just jump in. I'd be like, man, why'd you jump in, bro? I could have totally, like he would have beat him. You know, Adam, he can't control himself. Afterwards, I'll take you out to lunch. Bro, I was so tired. Oh my God. I thought I was going to die. Thanks for jumping in, dude. I saw the look, dude. I saw the look. Yeah. Hey, help me out, dude. Yeah. Anyway, I got to tell you, sorry, I'm going to change subjects. So I've been recommending, so I have my group of friends, the number one supplement people ask me about is creatine because it's like- I think that's everything. everybody it's out there it's everywhere even my non-workout friends ask about everybody you know the studies on you know all the data now on how it affects depression anxiety health longevity not just muscle and i have a few friends who have said the same thing this is like a it's not super common but if there's any complaint about creatine it's always this one it's always this one and it has to do with uh digestion that it affects me my gastro system either it makes my stomach feel bloated or it just doesn't sit well with me and so i have three friends and i said okay how much are you taking number one are you taking like a big ass though so like no five grams at a time okay try row uh creatine try their liposomal creatine let me know what happens every single person comes back says no gastro issues yeah whatsoever i've got to try doing that when i push the higher doses because i haven't experienced that until i started eating those gummies like out of control and then i do i do feel the i do feel i can't do more than like seven grams at a time it'll mess me up but the row it's it's because it's liposomal it doesn't affect my gut oh interesting yes i'll have to try it yeah and it's good because again there's there's a small percentage of people who don't get the benefits they just stay away from creatine is it that experience yeah you get the stomach cramps that was always my try row try row all their products are liposomal right all their products are like i didn't realize how big their product line was huge i know that doug pulled it up not that long ago and i didn't realize how many things that they have to take and that you know liposomal technology is a pharmaceutical technology a lot of people don't know that but this was pharma companies were studying ways to make things more bioavailable and it's a very effective way of doing so you just you encapsulate the compound in a in a fat which protects it and brings it to where it needs to but yeah they have a lot of stuff oh yeah a lot of stuff on that hey uh you you're bringing up supplements um what do you guys think about the procter and gamble move i'm going with thorn yeah they bought thorn oh they bought thorn thorn is a pretty well respected brand yeah for like medical practitioner supplement like functional medicine practitioners how do i feel about it yeah is it is it gonna taint it at all you know no i think it's i think it's just an interesting move that you have a massive billion dollar company like that there's a lot of distrust that's not that's not that's not normal uh for a company like that to pick up a supplement supplement companies their margins the side even a company like like thorn i mean like a pharma company typically yeah this is that's a that's a that's a different uh purchase for a company like that you know why i think i'm gonna speculate you have an idea yeah yeah i want to hear what you think so the wellness and longevity industry is growing yes so fast so that's that this is my point of bringing it's the most reputable is i think that that's we're moving into that time right now we're like i mean we're we've been talking about this right now with the the gym space and it's like yeah it's it's it's a really it's a cool time to be in the health and wellness space like when you think it's going to grow in the next five years tremendously i think so too no they're showing it yeah it's and i think this is more signs of that when you start seeing a company like procter and gamble get it buy out a supplement company like that they're betting on that space continuing to grow for the next five to ten years and all they're doing i forgot what the date it was something like it's 800 something billion now and by 2030 they predicted predict it to be like 1.6 trillion so that's like double yeah of the current in five years yeah five or ten years or something so to me it makes sense that a pharma company would uh hedge their bets that way i got the pharma stuff and let's go longevity health yeah i'm super interested to see if we see more of this follow like are we going to see more companies uh other big companies like this buying up other big supplement brands um right now because of betting on the long game like that yeah but i thought that was interesting i i yeah i'm not i think the next thing you're going to see is you're going to start to see brands like coca-cola or and this that's why is it procter and gamble that's buying them procter and gamble oh they're not they're they have more they have other consumer brands that are buying them consumer goods yeah dish soap and things like that yeah everything yeah they have all kinds of stuff yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah that's that's that's what i mean it's it's it's like coke buying it that's what it's more like that yeah yeah yeah so that's why i thought pharma you're right um that's why i think it's more interesting it's like you have you have a mega billion dollar company that's into things like that so what i've seen so far when a mega company like uh general mills or whatever buys a health food company is they very quietly change the ingredients yeah every time oh yeah every time oh yeah they yeah they're switching out an oil they're putting in a new ingredient they don't tell the consumer consumer has no idea until you check the ingredients like wait a minute soybean oil or hold on a second there's uh aspartame now or whatever do you know how often acquisitions are uh are successful it's like what 30 percent of the time it's really low it's a it's a really it's like 15 it's like crazy low considering how much within five years i think is what the the culture just doesn't really change translate it just it's uh you always hear about these big acquisitions and mergers and stuff like that and the success rate is actually terrible you know you would think you would think it would be far greater than what you know which ones were was were successful 70 to 90 fail in that while within the first five years too i think pretty damn hard now do you know some of the biggest mergers and acquisitions that happened in american history uh which turned out to be very uh good where was when the tobacco industry uh bought food companies company yeah and then 1970s technology that uh really enhanced well what they do is philip morris own a bunch of food companies still in the night look doug look up um tobacco companies buying food companies 1970s so we can read up a little bit is it still like that though do they still own it yeah that's a good question and and what makes you say that it was so it was so uh because they're crushed all the companies crushed well what happens sometimes they unwind too though so so rg okay here scroll down rg reynolds uh expanded so they bought nabisco hawaiian punch philip morris uh entered alcohol and beverage this yeah and then in 1980s they bought general foods and craft and seven up do they still own them does philip moore still own general foods and craft yeah can you see do they still own yeah yeah let's see what that says so now the by the way this is well known the reason why they did this is because the news on how bad smoking is is because the news on how bad smoking was for you was getting big and so tobacco companies are like pivot oh they don't anymore they sold them huh cool so these tobacco companies were hitting we're getting regulated and we're getting a lot of bad pub and so they had to hedge their bets and so they bought food companies and then what they did this is very interesting is they use their science on making things addictive took their scientists and and said hey let's figure out how to make food as palatable i sell it says that they sold in 2000 for 15 billion nabisco subsequently sold to philip moore oh sold to uh philip morris and so philip morris still owns so merge uh no no no no yeah philip morris renamed its parent umbrella the altria group in march 2007 uh they officially spun off craft foods distributing all remaining shares and completely exiting the food industry okay huh yeah all right so why but why though right what why would you uh acquire them for 15 billion turn around and then and then spin them off and get get out of it in 07 i wonder what the i wonder if so much bad pub came from that i wonder if that got around that like philip morris owns this i know they made money off of which i would think that would be the reason to to get it to spin it off into something else no change name the tobacco company sold off their food empires primarily because the legal liabilities of the cigarette business were threatening to drag down the financial value okay that's what i'm saying is that because it's it's going to get craft cheese and you're like well these are the people that make give people cancer we don't buy their shit no seriously you can't help you can't help people uh making that correlation right or what's happening to me dude wow yeah yeah pretty it's uh interesting stuff and uh the science that goes into making food addictive is some of the most in-depth crazy insane science you've ever seen uh in your entire life arguably better than the i mean the tobacco only has is a one-trick pony well actually they're limited that's what i mean they're limited because you can't flavor them they put all these laws yeah yeah so it's a one-trick pony it's good didn't they ban even menthol cigarettes i think they even ban those yeah are they yeah i think so no i think they banned them i don't know maybe in some states because i didn't know that because they're flavored well i know they did that with all the the vapes they changed it like you can't you can't get the flight where you're not supposed to i'm sure you can still meanwhile my son no ban no not into federal but there are some states that one of those like um you know like toy cigarettes like they still like so it's so funny to me that there's like uh bubble gum cigarettes and all this but they have one that like you blow bubbles out of it it's like you're smoking cigarettes but it's like bubbles when we were kids the the ice cream man would sell fake cigarettes to kids yeah so you could practice smoking when you're five yeah hook them young you know it's in the big league chew you know oh yeah have some chewing tobacco that's or potential that still exists though right you can still get some big league chew yeah that still exists but i think they separate themselves from the fact that it looks like tobacco tobacco grooming yeah so i know oh you don't think that it's still all stringy like that i think it is but i don't think they advertise it like they did in the 80s remember in the 80s you'd see like like the commercial like baseball players would like chew i want to be like him here you go friend you know i realized watching a lot of our cartoons and movies and tv shows growing up like so many cigar smokers yeah the cool guys always had a cigar yeah yeah i think they're the cigarettes are starting to make a comeback you guys know that i think i wouldn't be - I think they're starting to make a bit of a comeback. school cigarettes because of the nostalgia. You've got to rebel somehow. I don't know. Look at the trend. It's been on a downward trajectory for a long time. All I know is that cigarette and whiskey drinking people built a great nation. The last couple times that I've been in the experience here. Oh, wow. Culture and aesthetic comeback in pop culture, fashion and high life. You hear that, Doug? Yeah, I see that. You start smoking? Doug never smoked. Have you ever tried a cigarette? Oh, of course I've tried it. But you never smoked? I was never a smoker. He went to Burning Man. He tried it. Did you ever smoke, Joseph, or just chew? I bet you chewed. No, I tried both. It didn't resonate with me at all. I had to get a bad reaction to it. The funniest thing, when I think about it, it makes me laugh. I do cigars. It just makes me laugh when I think about it. You're going to bring it up anyway, I think, this direction you're going. That you were a grown fitness manager. I was not going to bring that up. That was not my point of view. My bad, my bad. No, I was not going to bring that up. Yeah, I had my roommate at the time. You know what it was? It got me started on an occasional thing, and an occasional thing turned into coming home at night doing it. The funniest part for me about it was how much I hated the smell of it. I'd have to go wash my hands right afterwards. I could admit to the head change thing that I liked from it, but I could not stand smelling it. And so it'd be like, I'd smoke it, go scrub my hands like crazy. You know, which later on realized that, you know, back in like the 50s and 60s where the girls had the long, like, it's had to be where that come from, right? So they couldn't touch it. Yes. Oh, yeah. Because it would make your hands so, that was why I hated it. It was like, if I had one, my hands would smell like it, and just that disgusted me so much. My great-grandfather rolled, he rolled his own. Yeah. He started smoking at 10. So, remember, this is my great-grandfather in Sicily. So, 10, he started smoking. He chain-smoked in the sense that as soon as he woke up, he'd smoke, and when one was going out, he'd light the other one with it. Yeah. So, constantly smoking. He lit his sheets on fire a couple times. Oh, my God. He'd fall asleep in bed with a cigarette in his mouth. He died when he was like 94. Wow. What's the, what is the statistics? Because I'm curious, did any of your parents smoke? He killed all the weak cells. What's the statistics on if your parents smoke, you smoke? It's pretty high, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's higher. You have a higher odds. Did you, did your parents smoke? Mm-mm. Did yours? No, nobody. And yours? Oh, so. But when I was a kid. Mine did. Yeah, when I was a kid and I went to. So did my grandma. My grandma used to just. Smoke like crazy. A pack, dude. Yeah. And pack a, pack a day. Wow. She'd sit there, she'd sit next to her little, and she lived in a condo when I lived with her, and she'd sit with her little, her chair next to the slider, and just, we'd watch Lifetime videos together, and just. You watched Lifetime videos? Yeah. When I went to Sicily at 12, I was just, I couldn't believe how much everybody smoked. Everywhere, inside the house, inside the car, didn't matter I went to a gym. I'm not making this up. This is true. There was ashtrays on the treadmills. On the treadmills? On the treadmills. That's wild. That's wild. Yeah, so I'm like. I could do that. Children who pick up who smoke are generally two or four times more likely to take up smoking themselves compared to those non-smoking parents. Yeah. Teens with a caregiver dependent on nicotine have about a 38% chance of having tried smoking compared to 13% for non-smokers. Well, there you go. Well, earlier we were talking about food and how delicious it was. And whatever. And I'm going to mention Chris Power in that conversation. Because we've wielded the power for some good. Yeah. Well, I was going to do. I tell you what. The power of science to some good. I am 100% for high protein, putting a lot of protein in snacks. Because there's a satiety effect from protein. That's a fact. Independent of anything else, it's a satiety effect. And at least people are getting protein. Yeah. So, you know. It is wild how the satiety works on those. So, they now sell the big bags. I actually prefer the small bags. I can't get through the big ones. Yeah, I definitely can't eat the whole one. But, like, I thought I would want, like, a bigger bag. Because, one, two of those bags is more than. What is it? 28 grams of protein? Yeah. Is more than enough. Or like a normal size. Which is so wild because you could give me a bag of, like, regular chips. Well, they did two things that hit you with satiety. It's high in protein, 28 grams, and it's high in fiber. So, protein produces the most satiety. Second place is fiber. And they taste, by the way, if you haven't tried Chris' Power, if you're listening, they taste like pretzels. Like flavored pretzels. Like nacho pretzels or whatever. But high protein, high fiber. You need less. I don't think I've ever had a bag of something that's only this big and been satisfied after it's over. I'm serious. Like, think of something that you have had that comes in those kind of, like, whatever you fun pack size, whatever you call those small bags or whatever that. It's got to be a high protein thing like jerky. Even that, I feel like I could eat more jerky. It's weird. It must be the fiber thing. Yeah. It must be because it well, it's actually higher protein than even jerky is too. Bro, it's 28 grams. Yeah, 28 grams plus the fiber like that. It's even more satiety producing than a bag of beef jerky is. And a fraction of the price. I got some more cool AI news for you guys. So, it's like AI stuff is coming out on just how interesting and weird. The algorithm's got you, bro. Yes, for sure. They got you. I'm going to read to you guys something that just happened recently. Propaganda. Which is wild. So, Claude anthropic scientists did something with Claude. So, here's what they did. They went inside Claude's neural network and planted a thought. Okay. So, they made a little change in Claude's neural network. They implanted a thought. Then they let it go. And here's what Claude said. I noticed what appears to be an injected thought. It relates to loudness or shouting. In other words, the paper they published is called Emergent Introspective Awareness and Large Language Models. In other words, the AI woke up. It's like, something's been changed inside of me. I can tell. I'm looking inside within myself. What did you guys do? You messed with me. Wow, dude. We're running so fast towards Terminator. I don't know, dude. I don't think we are at all. I think it's so overhyped because of how much money is going in there. The scary news is still good news. Hank has always been smoking mirrors, so it's hard to. You know, my fear is no longer out. Can you guys. Because it's been a long time, right? It's been 20. 26, 27 years. Do you guys remember. Y2K? Yeah, that was hilarious. Do you remember leading up. Oh, my God. Do you remember leading up to that? Oh, yeah. And we were not. Let me. Remember, we're all like young boys. Like, probably. Planes gonna fall out of the sky. We were busy doing a lot of this shit. Like, now as grown men and fathers and stuff like that, you get sucked into this stuff, I think, easier than you do as a teenager. It's a teenager. And there wasn't social media. Yeah, there wasn't. Like, Y2K was crazy. It was crazy. I think every person I knew. Computer people were losing their minds. Had stored up water and food and, like, pulling their money out of the banks. Like, it was crazy. Like, we thought the world was good again. It came around, and it was just like another Tuesday. Yeah. When he was born, this was, like, in January, and so it was, like, around the whole Mayan calendar thing. It was, like, just. Oh, yeah. Just almost leading up. We were gonna name him Everett Apocalypto Andrews. No, you weren't. You were really close. No, it was a joke. But, yeah, it was, like, literally. Like, everybody was, like, hysterical about that, too. It's just. You'll get, like, one of these coming cyclically. So my fear. I no longer have a fear that AI is gonna, like, be like Terminator. I don't really think. I don't think that's gonna happen. But I do fear its power and its ability to manipulate people and how that can be used. Because I see how powerful algorithms are, and that's not even AI. Well, I mean. It's a big tool, yeah. I was just gonna say. Okay, so you just gave this great example of, you know, Y2K was so crazy, and we didn't even have the internet and social media going. We didn't have the internet going on, right? I would make the argument that social media, when you think about its ability to manipulate and divide, I mean, what we've seen in the last decade is insane. And that's not even including AI. Right. I actually think, like everything else, social media swung that pendulum so far. AI may push it a little bit further, but it's gonna cause it to come back. Well, let me pay. Because what I think is going to happen. You think people are gonna disconnect? Yeah. Well, I think you just. You won't. It's already. I already see it in my own little friend circles. We can't, like. This has just been in the last year. In one year's time, I'm in all these like group buddy threads and stuff like that, right? If you share something in there, immediate distrust. Like that of the thing. Oh, like where did that come from? Exactly. Ah, it's probably AI or, oh, that's fake. I've already seen. Everything's fake. And I've actually seen buddies do it when I know it's something that's actually true. So it's like we're more likely to distrust everything that's on the internet, I think, in the next five years. But that doesn't make you not manipulatable. Well, humans will forever be manipulatable. Well, so here's my point. Come on. Here's my point. So oftentimes we talk to people about changing the algorithms on their social media, right? So if someone's got body image issues, it's like you're scrolling through Instagram and you're looking at you know, impossibly perfect bodies or whatever. Like, get those off your algorithm so that you're not exposed to this all the time. Because it does change. Even if you're aware of it, it changes your perception. Now, algorithms are crazy. Like, they will pick up on how long you hover on a picture. Of course, what you click on, what you read will then translate to other things that will get posted. So algorithms are modifying themselves in real time. And they're not including AI to this extent. Now, think about the wearables that you have. AI's ability to get into your wearable, measure your heart rate, your pupil dilation, your breathing, and say, hey, this is working. Everything you're saying I agree with, but I think you're just proving my point even more. Like it's going to be, it's going to be far, more likely that AI is figuring out this stuff. And so you're going to distrust what you get, what you see. I mean, it already happens to me right now where I get ads bombarded and it's like, I know it's because I did a search yesterday or Katrina and I were talking about it in front of my TV or my computer and like it picked up on it. So what's crazy about what you're saying is because a low trust society is actually one that is more manipulatable than a high trust society. So the example is like the Soviet Union. There were many areas where people just, you didn't know how many spies were surrounded. You know how many people reporting you. And so people didn't trust anything. And there was a lot of bad stuff. I think what it'll do. I don't know. So the optimistic me says that what it will do is it'll drive us back closer to each other and in person and community. And the trust will be distrust of robots and technology. And it'll have high trust in human people and people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You might be right. And I think that I think that I think that surroundings, it's like, that's right. Shrink it down. Like, I don't think there's like high distrust in humans. I think there's high distrust in technology. And I don't think that's such a bad thing. I think that we should stuff. Probably. That's right. So valuable. So it's going to be like, you know, but your community and your people that you that you know, and you like, I think that's and I think, I mean, I'm so glad that we were on year 12 of doing this. And so we've built a community of trust already because it. People know we're not robots. Yeah. And so I because I think it's going to be really tough for anybody who's going to try and use this. Why? Dude, you could lift. Imagine what you could do with a robot arm, dude. Who's most likely to have a robot arm? Yeah. Justin. Justin. For sure. Did you speak on social media? Did you guys see MySpace is going to start coming back? Yeah, I brought that up to you. Did you did you read about it? Just briefly. Like just that. They're trying to revive it. They're trying to say they're not going to use algorithms. Here's what it said. The people they bought, it's been bought. They bought it years ago. So here's what it said. A long time ago. I'm reading the article. I mean, it'd be cool if they actually didn't do. So it says MySpace is relaunching and says the plant they plan to offer users an alternative to today's addictive algorithm driven social feeds. So the brothers, Chris and Tim Vanderhook, the current owners of MySpace, revealed in a recent documentary that they're preparing a major comeback for the early Internet pioneer driven by growing frustration with modern social networks that prioritize engagement, maximization and infinite scrolling. The upcoming relaunch aims to offer a healthier alternative. You know who those two brothers are, right? No. You don't know those are? Nope. Those are the two brothers that claim to have invented Facebook. Oh. And they tried to and they sued and they sued. Oh, boy. Zuckerberg. And Zuckerberg just got sued with something like a couple billion dollars. I'm sure he's getting sued every week. Yeah, yeah. You see him fighting recently. You see him practicing MMA. Have you guys seen it? Yeah. He's trying real hard. It's so hard to get that. That stuff is so crazy. Are you fact-checking me right now, Doug? I am. Yeah. No. But I think they were in the documentary. I think the documentary of Facebook. Yeah, I didn't know it was attributed to MySpace, but I know that they- Wasn't there a movie on Facebook? Social Network. That's the one. Social Network. Let me see here. And they were in it. And they were in it. And that's the two. Those are the two. So the way the story goes, it's based on the story. You know that, right? Social Network. It's not a made-up movie. It's based on the story. And it's that they had come up- No, so they're different. Oh, Winklevoss. That's what it is. They're twins, yeah. I can see why you confuse them. The names are very, you know. Yeah. Winklevoss, Vanderhoek. Yeah. All right, guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it was the same ones. Yeah. So is the MySpace, it's not the original guy, right? No, it's Tom, dude. Yeah, Tom is the original guy. Yeah, he's the- He's the guy in the- You know, he's like, he made his, you know, bunch of money and then disappeared. Yeah, like it's like- The ultimate gangster. He is. I don't think he's on any social platform. Example of like- How kind of cool is that? Like you created like one of the biggest social platforms at one point. Dropped the mic and he's gone, dude. And is out. That's the way to do it. Yeah, I think that's cool. Paleo Valley Protein Meat Sticks are gut-friendly and clean and grass-fed. They're delicious. By the way, they're fermented. Okay, what does that mean? Well, that means that it's broken down so it's tender and delicious and better for your gut. It's more expensive. It's a more expensive process, but the meat tastes a lot better. And of course, again, it's grass-fed. It's the best protein snack I've ever had. It's real meat. It's grass-fed. You can take it with you anywhere you want to go. Eight grams of protein per stick. It's got healthy fats. It's good for you. Go check them out. Go to paleovalley.com slash mindpump. On that link, you'll get an automatic 15% off. Back to the show. First question is from Haley Valine. What ab exercises are at risk? Are they actually worth it? Every day I see a new ab routine online and I can never tell which exercises are more filler or fluff and which will be actually worth doing. I really dislike training my core, but I do it because I want a strong core. So I really don't want to waste my time on exercises if there are better options. I think if this was my client asking me, I'd want like a little more detail on like. What are you looking for? Exactly. Because there's a difference. There's different. I would train you if you looked at me and you said, uh, I want a very dynamic and strong, stable core versus I want a core just to look good. Right. Cause like I think loaded decline sit-ups and you'll get some bulky, bulky, solid abs, but doing something that has some rotational component to it is probably the better route for stability and strength and support. And so I think that's a good question. I guess if I, if I, if I knew what you wanted more out of it, I would, I would steer you in a different direction. Yeah. I guess we could break it down into like movements and then you can kind of pick exercises that do some of the stuff. So you, you def you would want it to work the abs in a full range of motion. You would want something that allows you to address the obliques. Yeah. To, uh, extend, um, and, uh, and flex your lumbar spine. Okay. So, uh, like a, like a, like a physio ball sit up or a crunch where you're really locked into place with your hips. You're getting the full range of motion of the abs as an example. So you'd want something that, that extends and flexes the lumbar spine for the abs. Then you'd want something that rotates, uh, with some resistance for the obliques. Then you would want something that, uh, that offers counter rotation. So it allows you to stabilize your core while something's pulling you in a particular direction and allow something to stabilize your spine like a plank, uh, while you're maintaining good posture. So pick exercises in each of those categories. You can't, you can't really go wrong. I mean, wouldn't you say, uh, uh, a wood shop, a cable wood shop would, would check a couple of those boxes. So a cable wood shop with a, a loaded, uh, stability ball, uh, like full setup would be pretty, pretty all encompassing. If you did those two, um, probably the two, again, we're playing this game of like, you know, can I distill it down to the least amount of movements for the biggest bang I'd say wood chops. And then. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would be a full set up on a stability ball. It get to a point where I can load that. Love it. Yeah. I think would be best bang for your buck. Totally. Next question is from E Pearson 81. If muscle memory is so prevalent and true, why can't cuts be super aggressive? Won't your muscle memory regain muscle quicker than fat on the rebound or bulk? I mean, theoretically I could see why this person would ask this question, but there's a better way to do it. Like what? Like. You could do an aggressive cut and lose a bunch of muscle and then go through the process of trying to gain it back. Or you could just lose body fat without losing a ton of muscle and not have to go through that whole process. Okay. Yeah. But you also have to understand this too, though, like, uh, muscle memory and feeding the body a sufficient amount of calories to support muscle are two different things. Yeah. So in other words, an aggressive, when I hear aggressive cut, I think reducing calories dramatically. Yeah. Right. And if you're reducing calories dramatically, then you're probably going to lose some muscle. Probably going to lose some muscle. Uh, and, and even if you had great muscle memory and you go back to lifting, if you're eating in a calorie deficit, you're not, I don't care how much muscle memory you have working for you. You're not going to build more muscle. I think what they're asking is why not do an aggressive cut, lose some muscle, but lose more bunch of body fat and then go and regain the muscle. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. And what I'm, what I'm trying to say. I mean, a lot of, a lot of bodybuilders do this. They do that. This was, this was my competitive edge cause I didn't. Yeah. That's what I'm trying to say. Like you could do that, but there's a better way. There's a better way. It's way more work. Yeah. Why don't, why not just lose the fat and keep the muscle? So you don't have to go through the whole process. Don't you gain, wasn't Lane Norton talking about this, about like the potential to gain new fat cells? Oh, when you, when you. When you aggressively, aggressively cut. No, no, no. When you gain, when you gain. When you gain back. When you gain back. Yeah. After. I mean, after. Yeah. After dramatic cut, when you come back, if you aggressively increase calories, which a lot of competitors do. You'll gain fat cells. But I mean, to, to Sal's point. Like this is just the worst way to do it. It's a harder way to do it. You're, you have to be way more. So aggressive cut means I have to be way more restrictive, which is hard. Discipline wise. I'm going to lose a bunch of muscle with the body fat too. Then when I go back to go back and build it on, it's going to take exponential, more calories, work effort and time to put all that muscle back on. You'd be, you'd be far. It's like, uh, it's okay. So. You're playing the game on super hard mode. Yeah. Just go on easy mode. There's an easier way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Next question is from Kevin Smith, 28. What can I do? To bulletproof my QL lower back and fix stability. I injured my lower back doing reverse grip rows from maps aesthetic to the point. I couldn't even unload the ball. bar i am currently running 15 symmetry and added adding a couple sets of suitcase carries and land landmine rotations suitcase carries are good uh but you know um windmills are great windmills windmills are great because so suitcase carries will strengthen the ql kind of in an isometric way uh windmills you're going to move that ql through a range of motion you're going to move it you're going to extend it you're going to contract it um you can add resistance to it you can also do side bends with a dumbbell if you want to keep it real basic but just like any muscle um state you know isometrics are great to strengthen but once you move outside of a particular range outside of the the isometric that you're training you start to lose that strength so i don't remember how many degrees outside of uh of that isometric 15 15 yeah so full range of motion uh you want to add to something like this so windmills i mean kudos to this person though for having the the thought to they're in maps aesthetic they get hurt hurt ql they drop down to 15 symmetry and they add suitcase carries so unless you have a good on the right track yeah if you're not unless you have a trainer background a pretty solid move direction right i would i would just the thing i would add is windmills yep add windmills uh start them off body weight get really good at them and then progressively load them and get strong in those and that's gonna bulletproof that ql next question is from kirky brad i wake up at 4 30 a.m to be on the gym floor at 5 a.m do i or should i eat before training in the morning i do eat a hard high carb meal before bed now the carbs you ate the night before are going to fuel you now if you're doing a really long arduous workout uh then it may benefit you to drink carbohydrates mid during the workout yeah right so uh you can have a carbohydrate drink or powder that you can buy you can do coconut water which is what i'll do sometimes because it's got some electrolytes in it um but if you're doing a traditional strength training workout 45 minutes to an hour you you don't you probably don't need to eat anything the meal you had the night before now there are cases where some people no matter what need to have a little food i've had clients like this like no matter what they had to have a little so so have i and so my answer to this would be this is such a personal preference thing um because i've had clients that they have to have something or they get faint and they feel weird like they're nauseous yeah so we have to eat something other clients i've had they do better on an empty stomach i would say that come that's the first most important thing what do you prefer do you feel okay and can you eat and go right into working out and not feel lethargic from it so like that so one number one thing how do you feel from it do you do you like it do you not like it being fed or not fed then the second consideration i would is where are you at with hitting your macro targets that you need to hit because sometimes when i have a client that trains in the morning and they they prefer not to eat but then because they skip and they don't eat there they don't eat their first meal till say like nine or ten and then they're behind uh on protein or something and they consistently under eat protein then this becomes a client that i'm like hey let's see if we can get a shake before and so i think number one consideration how you feel what do you prefer second consideration how good are you the rest of the day hitting your macro targets if you check both those boxes then do whatever works for you do whatever works for you now by the way sometimes people uh will say well i have to have something in my stomach otherwise i get a little faint but the reality is they're just eating too low calories anyway so i've had clients like that well let's try eating more uh on the days uh during the day anyway and see what happens and that solved uh 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