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Speaker 4the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat, and enjoy the conversation. This is episode 61, and today I'm in conversation with Katie Harrison of Step Mum Space. One in three marriages. Which means new blended families are on the increase. And whilst societally we are beginning to recognise how challenging it can be to be a mum, there is little out there for the unique challenges which stepmums face. Being a stepmum can be incredibly isolating. And as a result, incidence of mental health issues amongst stepmothers is much higher than mothers. So this episode isn't just for you if you are a stepmum. It's for everyone. It's for every mum, dad, grandmother, grandfather, aunt, uncle, nanny, you name it, who stands at the school gate or does the nursery or the school or preschool pick up to get a glimpse into those unique challenges so that we can all better support each other. Parenting, in my view, is the toughest gig out there. So let's be part of a compassionate narrative. So as ever, if once you've listened, you enjoy this podcast, I would love it if you could follow and review this podcast. Share this particular episode with as many people as you know so that others can find us and we can spread the love. So until next time, enjoy my conversation with Katie. So I am so excited that I have got the amazing Katie. Katie Harrison. And I think, Katie, did we end up meeting via LinkedIn or something? We've found each other.
Speaker 5Yeah, I think so. I mean, I was a fan of the podcast anyway through obviously my interest in children, having my own children and stepchildren. And then I'd seen some things on LinkedIn and it was just like, we have to speak.
Speaker 4And we did. Oh, my God. So I'm so excited you are in for the most wonderful interview and actually some great advice. Obviously, Katie and I have discussed before we've come onto the podcast. So there's a whole host of really. incredible stuff that Katie's going to share. So Katie, well, maybe just start off with a bit of an intro and how you've got to where you're at with what you're doing.
Speaker 5Yeah, of course. Well, like kind of most of life, it's a bit of a coincidental journey fuelled by passion, I guess you could say. So I met my partner about seven years ago. I had a three-year-old son from my first marriage and he had a three-year-old and a six-year-old. I think they were at the same at that time. They were both girls and going into it, I was sort of spectacularly naive and thought, God, I love children and generally kids like me and, you know, this is going to be great. And I did anticipate bumps along the road, you know, but I didn't comprehend the scale of what was in front of me, I guess. And obviously, it's been tough. It's been really difficult and for various reasons, which, you know, some of the people listening might identify with. And when I looked around for. When I looked around for support for me in this kind of new quote-unquote step-mum role, there wasn't any. And all the books I read, bar one, which is Step Monster by the brilliant Dr. Wednesday Martin, but everything else I sort of read or came across, it was very sort of treacly, just kind of love them as your own and everything will be fine. And very much put the onus on me as the step-mum to fix, even though obviously I hadn't grown these children and then sort of out of that, I have thought a number of times, there should be something. There should be more resources. There are, you know, so many millions of women in this place. Step families are the fastest growing type of family and there is nothing. So I started the Stepmum Space website and podcast earlier on this year, really just to try and create a space where women can share their stories and to just try and start breaking some of the taboos around stepmums. Because invariably, like biological mums, we're not born with like a roadmap really in terms of what exactly we're supposed to do, but there's very fewer role models or places where we can go for that. So I've just tried to start those conversations and it's been brilliant.
Speaker 4And I was thinking about it because I would imagine that from a media perspective and how things are portrayed about stepmums, you've either, it almost seems like you've got two huge extremes. You're the, you know, you're the amazing, everybody loves you, and you've got this wonderful relationship with their ex, but you've also got that whole wicked stepmum, the whole Cinderella. It's pretty much our children are indoctrinated with that from the very, very tiny. It's the wicked stepmother that comes in and ruins everything. So there's very little, as you say.
Speaker 5Yeah. And it's really difficult because you do see that in the media. You see it a lot. And I don't think the narrative of kind of woman versus woman helps. Like, you'll read anything about, some celebrity couple and it's like the ex and the new partner and, you know, just generally creating conflict between them where there doesn't always need to be. And I think the way that children grow up, all of the storybooks and fairy tales that we've seen are about wicked stepmothers. Even the things that are more recent are about, you know, negative stereotypes. The only one I can think of is the movie Stepmom with Julia Roberts and Susan Sarandon. But even in that, the mother has to get a terminal illness before they can kind of get on speaking terms. So there's nothing really to look at. Or like you say, you've got the other extreme, which is sort of everything's perfect and everything's rosy and we're a brilliant family. And so to not have anything in the middle and particularly to not have any recognition or support for women around feelings that are perhaps more challenging to accept that you have. So for mothers, biological mothers, society has got so much more. We're so much better at understanding postnatal depression and maternal mental health and having understanding of lots of the challenges that, you know, hit mothers. But it's still quite taboo to talk about some of the things that you might be really feeling as a stepmom. And what I find a lot of the women will say to me is, oh my God, like I thought I was the only one who felt like this. I've been feeling so guilty for feeling like this. And we shouldn't. And until we can create a safe space to talk about those feelings, we can't. Get them out into the open, which means we can't do anything about them. And then when they're stuck in us, we're not able to look after the children who are in our care in the best way because we're like navigating this emotional minefield all in our head.
Speaker 4And there is so much. I mean, you know, if we think about it, even with our own biological babies, there's a lot of guilt around maybe not enjoying motherhood or actually not particularly liking our children at that given moment in time. So you've got all of that guilt. And I would imagine that that takes you to the whole, you know, wicked step-mom if you go down. that route of thinking do you know I actually don't like my stepkids at all either I don't at all or I don't like them right now yeah I mean where do you go with that how can you that must be a massive isolating factor and feeling that you can't have that discussion possibly even with your closest friends so myself
Speaker 5and my partner we obviously both have children that are biologically only ours but we've since had two children together and we will sit with our two you know when our two biological children have been particularly tricky we'll be like oh thank god they've gone to bed like they were a nightmare today and we'll have a good laugh about it but not the one's child because one it feels really uncomfortable when it's not your child and also the other one gets really biological children has totally shone a light artificial we were being really before because you're like treading on eggshells the whole time thinking goodness i can't say like oh my stepchild was a nightmare after school because that became one i didn't and i remember going into um going into school the monday after half term in the playground and you know my friends are going oh thank god they've gone back to school they've been such a this half term and i sort of mentioned one thing that my stepchildren had done and these eyes like swerved around and daggers at me and it is so difficult because because of that you just you just don't speak and then you get trapped in your own head with nowhere
Speaker 4to go yeah but how do you even begin that because you've what i think is quite interesting katie i was thinking about it from that perspective as a mum that whole playground everyone's standing around waiting to pick up their children having that conversation with others but actually you're talking not only is it happening there but it's happening within the home and feeling you can't even say to your partner actually your child has been particularly difficult yeah yeah how do we even begin to start that do we have to start at home first with our other half or does it start with the playground or do we have to just
Speaker 5be braver yeah i think it is i mean in order to be brave there has to be an environment where you're going to be comfortable being brave where you're going to feel accepted and there's definitely a role in society the media literature to create better yet praying so there's that part definitely with in your home and i think i almost feel like before you become a step parent you should kind of get some support and some of the work that i'm doing and and that women can access on the website is around doing that is around understanding okay what are the conversations i need to have how do i make sure that i'm creating and we'll go into defensive mode i did it so i had a biological child and and if my partner ever said something to me about you know oh he's left his football boots outside again and they've got rained on you know perfectly normal thing to whinge about but i would automatically feel like it was a personal dig at my child when of course it's not so you do have to have those sorts of conversations up front and your point around like not liking the children is so so important to recognize because as a society again like we expect step families to behave like first families and they're not so the earlier that we can say do you know what these families are different they're not going to be the same the better and i think that does two things right so it stops women feeling like the pressure to blend their family and create this perfect family and it allows them to say do you know what my family is different and that might mean sometimes we all go on holiday together it also might mean sometimes we don't you know there are some very there are some very big differences and it also means let's recognize right that biology does have a role to play and there is sort of proven research to show that genetically you do have a stronger tie with the children that you've grown than the children that you don't and let's not ignore that so whilst you know we wouldn't i would never expect a stepchild to love their stepmother in the same way that they love their mother you do sort of feel as a stepmom that you're expected to love all the kids the same and to say that maybe you don't feels really uncomfortable but do you think that sort of stuff we have to be a bit more honest about at least in our own families yeah and i think i was i was thinking
Speaker 4about that and i think that's a really i was jotting some notes down while you were talking about it and i think it is that it's quite interesting isn't it it's about being honest right up front about about things this is the reality of it and also the managing the expectations because i think we enter into and that's we enter into it in this being we don't enter into a new family diversity situation with an expectation that we're going to be the wicked stepmom we go into it with the expectation we're going to love us not from an egotistical perspective but just because we think i can give so much i've given so much to my own children i'm going to love them just the same but actually if we don't have those conversations in
Speaker 5advance yeah and i think as well it's um that expectation of i'm i'm going to be brilliant for them or actually i should probably say it the other way around so the fact that you're so nervous about being the wicked stepmother is actually really dangerous right from the start so i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point because a lot of the women i speak to myself included at the very beginning try too hard to go to the other end of the scale so you're trying to create a world that is not sustainable because nobody can be perfect all the time you know we're not like mary poppins like it life's not like that but i think and i hear from a lot of stepfamilies you know the weekends when the kids are with them it's all fun and you have to go and create amazing memories and do magical things so then kids think life is always like that and actually you know what sometimes you've got to go around b and q because you have to so almost by trying hard not to be the wicked stepmother you put yourself into this place which is not sustainable for anybody and then almost when you move back to being a bit more yourself it creates problems in the family
Speaker 4yeah and i would certainly say this sort of the dynamic around trying to make it all sparkly and jazzy and dancey and fabulous i suspect also then creates its own own challenging dynamics so let's talk about because we haven't done this yet so i sort of made a joke jot down about circumstances so i'm imagining and you can tell me if i'm wrong but there are certain circumstances to which you find yourself as a stepmom that might be more challenging than others so i'm imagining that if you are perceived whether you are or not but you if you are perceived as the reason why the original family unit has broken down i would imagine that's going to be really challenging and i'm assuming that if there's potentially been a bereavement and a gap then you're potentially perceived in a slightly different way but that's my naive thinking is that do circumstances make a
Speaker 5difference yeah yeah they do make a difference so the research will show that when the biological mother has passed away the stepmother will have an easier time and again this is sweeping generalization right based based on what's been researched but um we'll show that it's had an easier time because you know a few things right she's helpful to the family she doesn't have to contend with an ex and again the research will show that the the more difficult the relationship is with an ex the harder it is for the step family to thrive and also when there's been a bereavement the the rest of the family will you know obviously it's going to take some time but the rest of the family will welcome a new woman into the into the fold whereas families you know they don't just consist of the people in the home sometimes you know i speak to stepmoms who have really difficult relationships with their mother-in-law for example or their sisters-in-law so you're totally right about that side of things when it comes to stepmoms who are the reason that the first family or the first relationship ended i don't know i it's not something and it's an interesting one because of course it happens but it's not something that i have heard many people talk about for obvious reasons what i do think is interesting is when you sort of see people talking about difficulties as step parents a lot of people will assume that they are the reason the marriage broke up which is just kind of a bit of a lazy assumption but yeah definitely easy so you're
Speaker 4tarred almost with the same brush yeah a
Speaker 5little bit and and i think from a child's point of view you know even if mum and dad have split up for whatever myriad of reasons children will often think well if you weren't here maybe my mum and dad would be together and i've got a lot of empathy for that i've got a lot of understanding for that like it's hard even in the most amicable of breakups it's hard for kids and i don't think anybody's disregarding that i just think the situation that we've got ourselves into is almost saying everybody matters apart from the step mum because do you know what step mum like you knew what you were getting into if it's and that's not helpful and that's one of the again many reasons why step mums suffer twice the anxiety and depression of biological mums because there are no there are there aren't those safe spaces there aren't those outlets for women yeah
Speaker 4because they're perceived i guess instinctively as the troublemaker the instigator the the sort of challenge to things and therefore made your own bed, now lie in it and deal with it.
Speaker 5Yeah, yeah. And it's so hard because, you know, society, again, has its incredible gender biases, which we all know plenty about. So, you know, stepdads are seen as heroes. Stepdads are seen as, you know, isn't he great? He's stepping up. He's really supporting the kids. God, she's so lucky to have him. Whereas stepmums, it's either, well, she's totally overstepping the mark. Doesn't she know her place? Why is she doing that? That's not her job. Or it's the other bit, which is like, gosh, she doesn't care about those kids much. She's not doing this. She's not doing that. She should be taking more of an interest. And because of those things, it's really hard because some stepmums will need to be more involved for all sorts of reasons and some won't or some will want to and some won't. And because there's almost no clarity of what a stepmum role looks like, a lot of the women I speak to, and it's one of the things that we're covering in one of the workshops coming up, is about like, well, what's my role? What's my identity? Who do I want to be in this role? Who does my partner want me to be? Who do the kids want me to be? Because otherwise, when you have a biological child, broadly, you know what your role is. You carve it out in your own way, but it's pretty clear what's expected of you. But when you get into a relationship with someone with kids, your expectation of what you might be willing or happy or able to give might be totally different to his or the kids or the exes or the other way around. The mother-in-laws and all those conflicts sort of arise from that. So again, it obviously all comes back to communication and talking about that at the beginning. But I think for a lot of women, they might, you know, I spoke to a woman on the podcast the other day and it was heartbreaking because she had really wanted a relationship with her stepchildren, a bond with them, to be close to them, not to tread on their mum's toes, but just to have that relationship with them. And they didn't want it. They just didn't want it from her. And that really hurt her. And again, in that situation, no one's done anything wrong. But there's just this real mismatch of what I want to give versus what you need me to give.
Speaker 1Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0, depending on their plan. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.
Speaker 2Blood donation is free. It is now more inclusive. More LGBTQ plus individuals are able to donate blood with the American Red Cross due to FDA guidelines that eliminate eligibility questions based on sexual orientation.
Speaker 4Yeah, and I'd imagine that that will be different across lots because there'll be some women who, I mean, you know, I am also a stepmom, but I'm a stepmom to much, much older women. And I feel that I've been in a more fortunate position because they have lost blood. They're mother. So again, I feel like all of those sorts of things. But instinctively, I would be somebody who would want to give and want to be accepted. But I would imagine, and this is no, in no way diminishing another woman, but another woman may not want that. But then you might have the child, the stepchild who might actually want more. So I guess it's that unless you have that communication, unless you have that discussion, unless you're beginning to sort of manage expectations and get that out into the open. Yeah. As a stepmom, you're constantly left with all of this whirring around, this guilt, this conversation. Yeah. That isn't necessarily being open and discussed.
Speaker 5Yeah. And you touched on something really interesting then, which is about like the relationship between the stepmom and the biological mum and what the biological mum might want or feel about it. And I think like my son from my first marriage, he has a stepmom. And, you know, I've found that hard and I'm somebody who's really passionate about supporting stepmoms, but it's hard, right? You don't grow a child and have a child expecting to send them off to be looked after by someone else every other weekend. So I've had to do a lot of work on myself to make sure that my child kind of doesn't get tangled up in the middle of any of that. And I'm really lucky because my ex and I get on fine. She's a really nice person and the sort of person I'd want to be around my child. So there's no kind of major issues at all, but I've still found it hard and it still sort of tugs at my heartstrings when he's not there because I would like my child to be with me all the time. And so I think as a stepmom as well, you do have to acknowledge it's really hard for a biological mum. It is hard. And I think some stepmums who are biological mums as well can have a bit more empathy with that and can sort of manage that. Not just stepmoms, stepmums who are biological mums, but you do see that. And I do think it's important to remember that basically at the heart of it, there's just two people, two women who are trying to do their best in a difficult situation.
Speaker 4Yeah. But I would imagine that that's a really difficult, so if we've got people that are listening who are the biological mum, that are not yet maybe stepmums, that are struggling with that, sharing their children, I guess I'm going to be really naughty now and say this, but I'm guessing that it's almost easier to perceive that stepmom as not very nice. It's almost easier both ways to slightly demonise the other. And that's what I think I find so sad in lots of ways is that we're not able to necessarily take that step back and see that these are two women with their own desires, aspirations, pains, troubles. And in some ways it makes it easier if we can slightly dehumanise, humanise each other, because then we can just deal with it that way. Or does that not happen? Maybe I'm just being really thinking the worst.
Speaker 5No, I think, I mean, there are so many different situations and I definitely think a lot of it can be tied up into why the first marriage broke up, whether the ex-wife has moved on from it. I don't mean necessarily with another partner, but I just mean emotionally moved on from it. So if they have, and especially actually if they've got a new partner, your life will tend to be so much easier. If the ex didn't want the relationship to end and didn't want to only see her children half the time or whatever the arrangement might be, then yeah, it is a lot harder. And naturally some of the anger will be pointed towards the stepmom. And it's just really hard. It's messy and it's complicated and it's hard for everybody, but it does, very much feel like up until very recently, there's no way for a stepmom to talk about it. It's very much like, well, you knew he had kids when you met him. What did you expect? And we don't say that to a biological mom struggling with her child. Well, you knew what would happen when you got pregnant, didn't you? So it's just like this huge double standard. And that then makes stepmoms just want to kind of like clam up and not speak to anybody. Okay. So yeah, it possibly is easier to demonize the other woman in the kind of triangle, if we can call it that. I think also it probably prevents one from having to confront some uncomfortable things about yourself. Yeah. So a lot of the time, a woman might feel triggered by a behavior because it makes her feel something about herself rather than the actual behavior. So it's, I do think it is really important that we try to, you know, you're only responsible for yourself, obviously, but we try and manage our own emotions and do the work on ourselves as best we can.
Speaker 4Yeah. And that's, and that is, I mean, it's a sort of, I don't know whether it's well known necessarily, but there is psychological theory around that. And it's not just, we're not just talking about stepmoms or biological moms. We're talking about human beings. We're often massively triggered. And I talk about it quite often. in that we can often be triggered by our own children. that there'll be certain aspects of their behaviour that really at a visceral level triggers us and what I would say is often we need to take a step back and actually ask ourselves why am I reacting that way what is it that my child has triggered in me because often it's aspects of their behaviour that reflect a mirror to ours that we potentially don't like and it ends up becoming slightly projected and that is universal that is nothing unique to the whole step mum biological mum situation it's an inherent part of us as human beings
Speaker 5that's really interesting I can I can definitely put that yeah I can definitely see how that's played out in some of the conversations I've had with step mums step mums and step daughters are notoriously difficult right yeah yeah I was just
Speaker 4going to say and now I think biological daughters and mums are always going to be there's a lot of this sort of stuff that you know dads and their sons and all of these aspects are if we're going to go stereotypical that we would necessarily expect but Katie can I ask you then what have you seen in the work that you have done and I'm I know obviously a lot of this is going to be individual circumstances but what have you seen that's been done in a positive way that has given the best you know if we could start from a blank slate if we are separated we've got children we're going we're going through that separation process we know that at some point we're going to start another relationship and there's going to be a lot of things that we're going to have to deal with and there will be some there'll be children involved at some level so we potentially could be a step mum and also be the biological mum what have you seen if we were able to start with that blank slate that you know seems to give everybody the best chance of it working more smoothly yeah
Speaker 5so one of the most important things is for the biological mum to give their kids permission to like the step mum so that might be by saying you know hasn't Sophie got a really interesting job or it's just positive things that make the kid feel okay about the step mum or it might be something implicit that when they bring a picture home and say oh I've I created this at daddy and Jane's house you say what a lovely picture or what a lovely thing to do there just so they're getting that kind of positive reinforcement rather than you know what I've heard and seen which is like the picture just gets snatched and grabbed because we don't want anything from daddy and Jane's house here like those those very subtle things like create massive impact on kids so firstly 100% as the biological mum you have to no matter how painful give your kids permission to like the step mum the only person you're going to hurt if you don't is your kids so definitely that but also
Speaker 4yourself I'd say in the process as well because it creates pain
Speaker 5yeah and I would say something that's really important and which I only started to do a year ago is to be honest in an age where I'm not a step mum I'm not a step mum I'm not a step mum I'm not a step mum I'm not a step mum I'm not a step mum I'm not a step mum I'm not a step mum appropriate way with your stepchildren about how you're feeling so I never told them about anything I was finding hard until it got to a point where I was kind of like completely in a really bad mental place full of anxiety and they would just see somebody walking around kind of who was really tense and on edge and actually I wish I'd shown a bit more vulnerability early on to say you know I'm finding this difficult or I'm not I'm not sure what I should do and because actually when I did talk to them about it they were brilliant really really understanding and we were able to have a really actually a really healing conversation because I think as a grown-up it's so tempting to not show any weakness at all so they probably thought I was this kind of person who didn't ever feel bad or upset about anything so I think that's something that's important as well obviously it all depends on the age of the step kids in the situation but I think it's important
Speaker 4but I think that that's an important thing because I talk about it all the time as biological parents as parents just generally is that children are often struggling with a lot of situations emotionally they have their own anxieties and worries and nervousness and lack of confidence and when we unwittingly present a persona that is we're capable we can do anything nothing phases us the child feels like that there's something wrong with them because they're not able so when we open up on the contrary to what to our belief that actually if I open up about feeling nervous or anxious or worrying or not knowing what to do I'm going to create anxiety by talking about it you do the exact opposite your child thinks oh my goodness thank god I'm not the only one that's finding this particular thing difficult and I would have thought from a dynamic of step parents step mum then that is at least like oh goodness me so she's finding it just as difficult as I'm finding it so they're
Speaker 5sort of shared yeah and a lot of the time the the step parent and the child are both sort of feeling the same about things like you know oh you know step mum might feel like oh I'm worried I won't fit into their family but step child's feeling like well I'm worried I won't fit into their family and you know there's some of those really core things it feels quite emotional to talk about but there's some of those really core things that actually you're both feeling the same
Speaker 4and that's a that's an innate human you know that we have to kind of remember from a child's point of view that we have to remember from a child's perspective their worst fear is abandonment so it in lots of ways we need to speak to and address that and then as human beings we instinctively want to be part of a community a group a network we want to belong so we're feeling the same things but coming at it from the adult and from the child perspective so being open and having those discussions and in age appropriate and I often talk about a development appropriate way so actually not necessarily how old your child is but emotionally how old your child is and how you're feeling about how developed are they and able to take on that information that surely must be a process of just being I know it's cliched that authentic but being honest and being truly you because actually surely if we've got nothing else in this difficult situation that we find ourselves in we've got us who we really are a
Speaker 5hundred percent and I think that that who we really are bit can sometimes get really lost in step parenting one of the workshops that we're running is going to kind of focus on that you know who do you want to be because you go into this role and suddenly who are you like you know when you're in a first family you naturally or subconsciously kind of carve out the values of your family the traditions of your family how that family runs and then suddenly when you're in a step family you can have two completely different sort of family cultures colliding and they can sometimes they can really work but sometimes they're completely different and like how people navigate that is really complicated because obviously everyone has to compromise but those two houses might have entirely different points of view on some quite important things in the world yeah
Speaker 4absolutely and I think actually Katie you've just sort of made me think I think we need to do another episode that specifically addresses so I mean obviously we're talking about stepmoms but I do think that there's real use in us coming on and doing another podcast episode because I'm thinking about things like Christmas yeah when we're talking about managing difficult behavior yeah how do we do that and I'm not a big fan of using the word discipline yeah but it's actually because you've got it's I'm all full of analogies that you know we're merging two companies with two company cultures that have that can be massively different yeah how do you then negotiate that and then create a new culture and then create a new culture and then create a new culture that is either a blend yeah or not a blend and how do you do that yeah so I definitely think so Katie we'll be back do not fear
Speaker 5definitely and that that is something that is and it can be the tiniest little things like you know in one house the kids wear their shoes in the other house they don't you know but that can become massive and or it can be huge things in terms of you know culture religion very different points of view on the world ours was always social media I didn't think it was appropriate but they had it in their other house so then I'm like the mean strict nasty person um but you know it is it is really really really challenging and how much it's like how much of yourself are you prepared
Speaker 4to give yeah definitely so just to wrap up because we're going to do we will I think we definitely need to do that other episode if someone is listening to this and they're not going to be able to do it they're not going to be able to do this right now Katie and they are struggling so they are in that stepmom situation they are feeling unheard they feel lost they're on their own they've got nowhere to go can you tell the listeners how they can get in contact with you how can they reach out and be part of a wider community of course
Speaker 5I would love to um and thank you so much for having me on because it's really lovely to be able to kind of talk about this in a mainstream environment because as well as stepmoms I think it's really important that you know some of your listeners have got friends who are a stepmom they might never have thought about some of this stuff so the more that you know they might want to drop a text to them now and say let's meet for a chat or just create that space where people can talk and likewise if there's a mum listening whose kids got a stepmom you know she's probably just a woman trying to do her best at the end of the day so yes how can you connect to other stepmoms so um my podcast is called stepmom space and you can find it probably wherever you're listening to this and I'll see you in the next episode bye bye to this but on all the usual podcast platforms um I'm on Instagram at stepmomspace and also our website is www.stepmomspace.com where you can find kind of different ways to get in touch with other stepmums we do sort of meetups and various other bits and bobs and there's workshops on different topics um things to do by yourself and also possibly things with your partner and then i guess i would just say like you're not alone you're not a bad person whatever you're feeling is entirely normal although i'm not a massive fan of that word but you know don't don't beat yourself up because you're doing the hardest job in parenting
Speaker 4yeah i think so and actually i love katie that that lovely reminder there is that actually you might be listening to this because it's a podcast on how not to screw up your kids and you know you're looking for tips on various things but i think you might not be a stepmom you may not be in that situation but you will 100% know either other parents at your children's schools or friends that are going through this that actually as you say it made me feel quite emotional when you said it but that just send that message create that space for them to you it's just being able to have that space oh katie thank you so much so much i think we could just talk for hours and and we will definitely katie will be back and we will talk thank you so much for coming in it's been brilliant blood donation is now more inclusive more lgbtq plus
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