Behind the Regs with Aaron Bridges

[MUSIC] [MUSIC] Welcome to the Behind the Rags podcast. This is Episode 4. Today I'm joined by Aaron Bridges and by co-host Nader. Before we jump into the technical side, Aaron would you mind giving us a brief introduction on your background, your service, your journey and what brought you into building control? Yeah, that's great. Well, first of all, thanks for having me guys. It's a pleasure being here. So I started in the military when I was 16 years old. A lot of my family had been in the military and previously, in my cousin's community serving and being having that exposure, it was ultimately decision that I made and I joined the Royal Artillery. I spent just over a decade in the military. I joined at a period where we had high tempo operations with Iraq and Afghanistan and ultimately over a five-year period. It got a little bit too much and I think it was time to spend more time with the family and I decided to leave, but where did I go? Well, that was a difficult question at the time. But building control popped up and that was through family. Currently, my father-in-law and my brother-in-law are both in building control, as is my wife. And they asked me if I wanted to get into this profession. So I did, I made the jumping. Initially, I didn't actually start out as a trainee building control surveyor. I actually started as a training consultant at ADF registry services and I did the energy assessors course. From there, they were actually stepped into a trainee's position and then made my way up to assistant. Unfortunately, we all know what happened with ADFs and I was made redundant. And then I joined the local authority, North Yorkshire Building Control Partnership, where I continued to develop as a building control surveyor. I really enjoyed my time at the local authority. But then decided to move on and got into structural warranty, a latent defect insurance, where I can continue to develop my technical skills. And at that time, the MD wanted to apply for his approved inspector license. So what I actually did was help him, along with others, to go through the sicker license process. And Alpha Building Control was born. And we were successful after our second attempt to get the license. And from there, after every year or so, I decided to move on to BB7, where I worked in fire assurance, carrying out FRAWs and EWS1. And then after a year there, I decided to come back into building control because I actually really missed the profession and came back to Alpha, was where I'm now currently as the operations director. So ultimately, that's my career career today. That's brilliant, Aaron. That's interesting to hear. It was very well put together in a nutshell, to be fair. And some of the questions I had lined up, you might have answered already in that brief. I wanted to elaborate on them a little bit more if you could. So one of those first questions, when you were approaching the end of your service, what were you actually looking for in your next career without knowing, without having the influence that obviously some of your family members are already in building control. But what was, like, what was, what was it that you were actually looking for in that next move? I think really it's ultimately a sense of purpose, isn't it? You've got to remember, I joined the army at 16. There's a young guy to join, you know, and the military got two years out of me for free, as they say. So from 16 to 18, you boy service and then once you're 18, you're into man service. And then from 18, I think I was 28 when I went out eventually left. So it's a big chunk of my life, you know, that I've spent, you know, serving Queen and country at the time, now King and Country. But ultimately, it was that purpose that I wanted to look for, and I think when you leave somewhere where you've been for so long, you can sometimes feel a little lost. Where do I go? What career path do I take? Because all I know, all I've known is the military, I know the military way. I don't know the civilian way. So it was quite a hard choice. But no one falls into building control. And I ultimately didn't know what building control was when it came to me. I didn't have a cloak, but when you actually start looking at the role of building control, I think it certainly souped the military way. So coming from the military background, what were your expectations of the profession and how did reality compare once you were in the role? So I think it was certainly a steep learning curve, you know, from the beginning. I've gone from, as I've said, from a military life into a civilian. So first, I actually had to adopt to what civilian life was actually like on the outside of the military. So that was the first thing that I really needed to understand. And then understanding building control was difficult initially for me because it was understanding what is the purpose of building control. And I think as time has gone on, I think I've really now started to understand this purpose. What building control is here for, you know, it is for the safety of the public in and around buildings. And what a great, great sense of purpose that is. And I think that's why I think I fell into it really well. And I fit into it well. And I think military people fit into it because it's that mission, isn't it? You know, you've in the military have a mission, what's mission? No, it's to serve, you know, the country and defend the country. The mission here is that we're doing public safety, we're making sure that buildings are built to the building regulations. People are safe and then around them. So I think the mission and its purpose fit perfectly. I think you also got a look sort of that, you know, the sort of values and standards that we also have in the military, you're drilled in what we call seed drills. So it's like courage, discipline, respect for others, integrity, loyalty and selfless commitment. And I think if you are actually look at all the values and standards, that's the very thing building control expect of a registered building inspector, you know, selfless commitment, you know, integrity, ensuring you're doing the right thing when, even when no one's looking. So that initial transition, we already had that skills built in for us for the military. And now all I'm effectively doing it is changing one hat, my helmet from military and putting a hard hat on. How did you find the transition from the military to civilian life at the end of your touch and briefly? Well, did you find that it's struggle from being very much organized doing, you know, very structures day to day with the military to then, you wake up and you decide what you want to do. Is that was that strange for you? Before before you answer that question, I just want to say something for the listeners as well. And I think we should have said that right from the start, we need to thank you and commend you for your service to the country and the people. That is something that we need to acknowledge. I'll let you I'll let you answer that question, but I thought this is something we need to acknowledge and thank you for it. Yeah, I appreciate that. That's good to hear. I think sometimes you know, UK people were very reserved, aren't we? And how we, where is America, was very passionate. So that's really good time, appreciate that. Even though I wasn't born and bred here, but still passionate. I think initially the transition, I didn't find it necessarily hard in the sense because as I already had family in building control, it made that transition easier. So my experience is going to be very different to somebody else's, you know, because you could all, you could all most argue that I've effectively stepped from one role into the other straight away. And I probably didn't have as much difficulty. So yeah, I think overall, I think my experience and transitioning was a lot easier than I think some people may find currently. Do you think could be done to help bring in service levers into the industry? Obviously, we talk a lot in the industry about a lack of staff, a lack of trained aviars and we need to fill these gaps. What can be done to entice service levers to look at this as a career for them? Well, I think we all agree is, I think, awareness straight away. It's certainly a blocker, in my opinion. And I don't think that just sit with just military people as well. I think the building control as a whole are people really aware of who we are and what we do. I don't think they are. And I think we can certainly improve our awareness of the our profession. I mean, if you look at a statistic, I mean, UK defense personals statistics from 2025 nearly 14,590 people left the military, which over 8,000 were stolen, so already we've got high volume of people that we can reach out to and give them a consideration. And they go through what's called the career transition partnership, which is a workshop effectively within the sort of the last year, because their termination period is effectively 12 months. So they give notice that they're leaving and they have a 12 month period where, you know, they have to go through workshops and stuff to understand the civilian way of life. So we could reach out to that, we could raise our awareness profile. And, you know, we've got to look at building control recruitment. It's a bit nuanced, isn't it, in the sense that we've got registered building control approvers and then we've also got local authority. We've just seen great investment in local authority with nearly 20 million pounds and they've set up the LAPC Academy. And I think now they're touching on 150 trainees, whereas a registered building controller, a proof of their recruitment of trainees might be slightly different because each each building control body is different in their approach to training and their needs at that time. But one thing we can all agree on is awareness and we can all deliver that either an RBC or local authority. And the simple thing is just attending the CTPs, we can do an engagement day. We could do where they have sort of engagement days, we could go put stand up and it's not necessarily promoting the private or the local authority, it's about promoting building control. It's about promoting the profession and getting more people into that profession. So I think straight away raising awareness is one of them. And another one is potentially we've got a look at training though for example, colleges, facilities and things like that. Are they making building control awareness? Are they bringing it to the forefront? You know, when I started out and thanks to David Barley, he helped me get on my degree course of building surveying and as I went through it, I think I had one module on building control and two of the gentlemen that I was on the course with, they didn't really know much about building control but they've now actually transitioned into building control both of them working through a registered building control over. But initially they never set out to be in building control. They heard of building surveying, we've heard of quantity surveying but they never actually heard of building control. So I think there are two key blockers that I think we can change as a profession, whether that be through WAPC, whether that be through the associated registered building inspectors, whether that be RBC individually or the local authority, we have that power and we can change that. Yeah, I think that's definitely something that obviously LABC do a lot of different marketing whether I'm a curve maybe open for doing some marketing but I think it is a missed opportunity of a lot of different types of people, especially service leaders who are going to have that discipline which is needed in our industry to develop into really good building control surveors. You mentioned that you had two people on your course at Woodoon Building surveying and hadn't really considered building control. Building control was never something that I set out to do myself. Building surveying is a course I did and it was only down to an email from Cave of the LABC cohort and that's how I found to. So I think there definitely is a need for awareness, like you've said, some marketing needs to be done. If government are funding for trainees, could some funding be set aside for putting a big advert out there to tell people that this is a career, which is a good career, I love what I do. A lot of people I work with love what I do and what they do, should I say. I think it is a good career with some really good opportunities to have. Yeah definitely, I totally agree. I think military people, as I've already said, are so suited to the role. I mean, you've got to look at the skills that they can transition across from. I mean, they already understand risk. They already understand safety and compliance because of the role that they do. For example, if you took a fire safety officer who effectively runs the ranges, he has to deal with joint service publication, JSP's, which are the guidance. And effectively, if you looked at a JSP and I've got an example, the JSP 405, it's actually called JSP 405 Volume 1. Well, that's very similar to an approved document volume 1. If we look at a approved document L, Volume 1, the language in it is very similar and then they have the forms. We can see the mindset already support building safety or safety in general and regulatory decision making effectively. And I think they also really perform well under pressure. I think that's something that most military people are attuned to. They're trained to remain calm in situations and have objective and be objective in challenging situations. I think that's important as an RBI and doing. She's in the hard right over the ED, wrong effectively, isn't it? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think you've hit the nail quite hard on some really important things like the transferable skills and having built in control as a second career. But why really? I think maybe the listeners would like to know as well from you, from your point. Do you feel that this profession offers that sense of purpose, many service levers look for after leaving the forces? Yeah, 100%. As again, going back to what I said earlier, it's about that mission. What's the mission? The mission at the end of the day is to ensure buildings are built to the building regulations and the safe for people. Now that's very different to our mission when we're back in the military. And when you really cling onto that purpose, it makes it worthwhile. The role is worthwhile every day, getting up in the morning, going out and doing your punch-checking, speaking to the duty holders. It's a correlation to me that there's the same. It's the mission at the end of the day. And I think that sense of purpose really will suit the military service levers. Do you think the journey from when you've left up until where you are today? That journey obviously you explained at the beginning and you've given us that brief that you've moved through different stages and attended a few courses until you got to where you are. Would you say that journey was? I would assume it wasn't easy, but would you say that that journey was seamless and it had like a consistent flow of maybe progression and transition from this to that. So the reason I'm asking that question is for people maybe listening to your journey and that experience that you've gained throughout this journey. For it to be something that they would be intrigued to know more about or maybe take the leap to get into. How did that journey feel? Was it hard? Was it seamless? Was the flow absorbed in a way that you say to yourself, this is something I can do. Because I think as well that the industry not just service levers we would want to attract. I think we would want to attract maybe other professionals or industry itself. Maybe architects that want to transition into building control. Maybe structural engineers that want to transition into building control. Maybe site managers. So that journey I think would be applicable. I think that journey yes would be applicable to all these different professions or people from different sectors or industries that would really say to themselves one day, well I think I want it because I have a lot of people that approach me like I obviously came to building control like Jack I never assigned to become a building control inspector like yourself as well. You started as a military young boy at 16 years old. My my education I studied architectural engineering so I came from architecture background that then transition into building control. But yeah I would like to maybe elaborate a little bit more about that journey and how how did you find it. I'm not going to say how easy or how hard it was but how did you find it. I think initially the journey from the start I did find hard initially as I said you've got to remember I'm going from the military background straight into a civilian environment although I had these skills that I transferred across getting used to understanding regulations and how they're interpreted was certainly something difficult. I think a military I was very used to black and white this says this you do that you know whereas sometimes regulations can be open to interpretation and I think I found that very difficult to to get in my head you know you could have a a regulation or something and you can get six different answers from six different people and that was defined by my god you know so I think initially that I found I found very difficult. And. But then having the discipline and the perseverance already drilled into me was what allowed me to keep moving forward. What I did find easy though was the structure of being at right, I've got to be on site at this time. This is what I need to look at, get my site report, don't get my plan checking done. You know, the project management around it, I found easier because that's what I was already doing, you know, within the military. And I found that transition a lot simpler, but initially, yeah, the understanding of the regulations and, you know, how to apply them, I found quite difficult at the beginning. But my perseverance and just keep driving forward and learning, I think that's one thing military people, they want to learn, you know, they want to, you know, the first for knowledge, I think so important as an RBI, you just want you need to keep learning, you need to keep going on. And I think that that sort of helped the transition as well because I wanted you to know, I wanted to learn off people, well, how do you do this? Well, what's this situation? And being adaptable as well, I mean, look at the changes that have happened over the last five years, it's been immense, you know, and having the resilience to keep going on and being able to check. There's one saying I remember commanding officer being comfortable with chaos, you know, I still remember that today, you know, being comfortable with the changing scenarios because it's going to keep evolving and building trails going to keep evolving like anything, you know, but having the ability to adapt to that. And for the right reasons, you know, building control is changing for the right reasons. So I think that was in bread from the military as well. Do you think that having family members in the industry has been a bit of an easier transition for you with someone to sort of lean on where say that someone a service lead became in to think it may be a bit more daunting for them to not sort of have that maybe a bit of a backup to sort of going. And I think that's the bounce ideas off think that's a bit of a benefit. Yeah, 100% we can't we, you know, have it, have it both my brother and father and you can go back and ask them questions can't you know, what do you think I should do, you know, with this. And it has made it 100% easier without a shadow of doubt, but we need to perhaps move them, you know, I think there is a perception of complex complex past perhaps and we need to remove that perception, you know, people, you know, looking at the competency in the B. S. R. Requiem and they think in perhaps that looks intimidated. You know, maybe we need to move that perception away, you know, people assume that you need to have a technical, you know, real heavy technical understanding straight away, well, that's not the case, you got to learn it. We've got to walk before you can run. And I think pathways as well, perhaps pathways need to be a lot clearer in how we we take a training from from class one, you know, to class two to class three if they wish to go that far. And by removing that perception, I think that would make it easier for them to look at it and go, yeah, that looks like a great career path for me. And I think super vision is so important now, knowing the military, I was always supervised as in I was always learning off people. Fortunately, do I think most of us agree that there is an agent workforce, we have lost experience through the first branch of the registration process, but we have a chance here, we have a chance to grab it and really bring, you know, skilled people into the into the profession and train them up. So that in, for example, in five to 10 years time, we have them that experience and then we've got that nice constant circular people are coming in, they're learning from the experience, they retire and then the next people are spreading their knowledge onto the next trainees. So I think at this moment, I've got some work to do, but it's such a chance for us, such a positive chance. Yeah, I imagine it can be very confusing for a trainee initially coming in and you've got your pick off, you've got your restrictive functions, activities, you've got your primary legislation, your career like station, your approved documents, your British standards, your mind can be blown immediately. And then with the BSR qualifications, you pass your qualifications, does that mean you're registered, you know, making that more clear for someone coming straight into the industry of your level for qualification doesn't mean you're not a constant class to registration and exam or into pathway. That will then have your competency upgraded. I think there are a lot of ways we can simplify things to make it a lot less daunting for people coming in so you can see, right, this is what you're going to do and this is how you can get there to be in that position where you are deemed a constant today under the registration. Well, that goes back to awareness, doesn't it effectively we've got to make them make make them aware and I think going back to your question, the idea about the other perfect people, architects and stuff, we have to give them, we have to raise awareness for them and show them the path that they can take and I look at, I look at the registration is like learning to drive effectively, you talk to drive, I mean you pass your test. But you actually don't start really learning to drive until you go through the experience like getting on a motorway, you learn you become better at driving as time goes on, don't you get put into situations when you're out on the road, so you know, there are things that we need to make, make people aware of. That's true, you can qualify someone today, you can give someone a driving license today, but that doesn't mean they can travel across Europe for example. Yeah, exactly. I have a driving license and they could do so, but it will take a long time for them to build up that confidence to start driving longer distance or difficult rules and that's exactly translated as a perfect example to be fair arenas is translated into the journey within building control. It takes you can you can get registration today, but it takes years to get to that level of competence to say well I have, I have a way of reading the legislation understanding the interpretations and all of these things so it was a really good example. Thank you. The other thing I think I wanted to ask you because obviously you were in the military and did before people before people decided to leave or before the time has come to leave the military propose any kind of alternative careers once people leave the service they have like for example I think if they had anything that they can propose or do they have maybe some kind of I wouldn't say events but maybe to to invite external sectors that to come and maybe show service leaders these are the alternative careers for you outside the service that that happen or you just get just get the notice when you're leaving and then you have to find out what to do next. That's a really good question normally termination engagement you come to attend to be 12 months so you would sign off effectively and then you would have 12 12 month period where you would still be working but then you have to go through what's called the career transition partnership and will see T.P. That is the first step and that's just the workshop and I mean I've been out and over a decade was close to a decade now so it might be slightly different now but when I went through it it was more about how to write CV how to prepare for an interview but within there that were jobs you know the crew and a lot of them were facilities management health and safety site management you know site management was pushed quite heavily. BT open reach because obviously there's a lot of telecommunications within within the military so you know they were pushed heavily you also had career days where people where big businesses would come put stand together and they would promote you know maybe they would have like an apprenticeship scheme or they would have like a fast track and for military personnel. So there were always that one one thing building struggles and ever there I never seen building control any construction sort of sector I see the site management. You know site management is it is definitely pushed so I mean going back again going back to awareness that's something I feel we could as a profession we could engage with and often that applies to anyone you know want him to jump from a certain career path. Now we need to be there we need to promote and it has to be us it has to be building control that does it we can't rely on anybody else you know we've got to do it ourselves so I mean yeah quite clearly as a missed opportunity if they are having these types of events for leaders to start integrating back into civilian life and the bringing in different types of careers we should get ourselves to the forefront we know that. We know that service leaders can definitely be the type of people that will throw out this industry. What 100% definitely look at it yeah I mean while I go myself and a couple of others was in building control we actually did a presentation at a CTP we did live at a seat presentation about building control what was rolling tailed you know when and it was all different people it wasn't just my business the world of business. is there because at the end of the day what we want to see more people in building control so it can be a cross-party mission almost you know getting that people in so we've done it and you know when you actually spoke to the to the lady that said it all up she was like what's building control I've never heard of it before I've heard of planning I know what planning off for series but I don't know what building control is so it's building that awareness I think it's key for me. So you think it's from what you're saying there is these career days that the military sets up obviously at this CTP time I think a lot of listeners will now realize that some of them it may be the first time they hear that that the option for them to go actually and exhibit in one of these career days so that is obviously something very it's I never knew about it that is the first time now here I don't know if Jack have heard about it before or not but obviously that is that is a very insightful information here from you and I'm sure that how how would people like how would people know about these career days how how would companies out there how would building how do how does with the building control community whether it's LA I'm sure LABC may may already know how yeah but what about RBC is is it something that we can share with the up-cut association of building control approvers that to to to have a maybe a point of contact with with the the MOD the Ministry of Defense to to maybe have these announcements of where these career days take place so people get encouraged to to go on exhibit and talk about the career and it could be a viable option for service leaders like it was for you yeah definitely I think the first step is that to just reach announce their local CTP office that's what we did there's one you know based in Richmond and we've got Patrick Garrison and there's a CTP there so we just reached out to the to the person there who was in the A's on and just said look you know we're starting to see sure to do that have registered a building inspectors and we really want to sort of push the profession get people new talent into it and we put a presentation together and we delivered that presentation and the CTP across the country but there's there's not just CTP there is other other private firms that deliver career days to to the military and there's plenty of stuff on LinkedIn you can look through I think there's one called for forces transition program or something and they do a lot of career days so effectively it's just about reaching out and you know and promoting and building control which I think is only a positive step and the point that Jack makes about the missed opportunity we can we can change that quite easily so it's not something that they announce is something that people have to go and approach yeah yeah you will need to reach out and because they'll obviously have the dates and in the time in for when they do these career days but it's a simply is just reaching out that's that's all it takes imagine they would be quite open to having different types of companies doing these talks at the career days it's not going to be a case of we don't we don't sort of need that or they're quite open for anybody to be involved are they? Yeah absolutely you know the first thing they're going to be because they're that well is it going to be a right fit for the military you know is it going to be the right fit for the service leaders and I think as we already talked about military you know the military people are perfect you know they're quickly learning to either reliable professional and the mission focus so and the role of building control that's what we need for a good RBI in my view so straight away the role already suits so it's mandatory that person out so I think that answers that one pretty quickly and then it's ensuring that we have that opportunity for people you know I think that's sometimes could be perhaps a blocker I've already we've already spoke about the nuances of recruitment you know local authority it's going to be slightly different too and RBI today so it's just ensuring we give them the opportunity to do the sort of bring in any recruitment agencies or anything like that to maybe get you signed up with it to be honest I don't know on that one that's a question I probably don't know that's probably something that would probably have to research a little bit more but again I think most of it if you've followed LinkedIn a lot or if you're quite active you'll see a lot of that service military people already putting a post about I'm leaving the service in the next six months you know I don't know where to go and I try and come in and just a lot of them are like well I've got this qualification I've got I asked Ney Bosch you know I want to get into the construction sector but I don't know where to what to do and just even just commenting on posts like that you know given them given an option I did it recently someone once again construction but wasn't sure where he wanted to go and put on there get building control try here's an article that I've wrote recently have those good building control reach out to your local building control body whether that be local authority or an RBCA and see what opportunities they have yeah I've found that a lot of service levers have signed up to the Savakors which is what I did my residential surveying to have been within a LinkedIn group there where you can do a bit of mentoring or sort of talk over the sort of process of Savour and how it works on assessment phase which I enjoyed Savour I think it's it's a good course to be able to do your part time learning so you can have that you sort of career in the background and learn in your own time but I found that seems to be a big one for the service leaves as well so surveying seems to be a good role in general for the military yeah definitely I think again going back to when I was at my university most people know no building surveying down now they know what consciousness surveying but you know they've never heard of building control so I mean surveying again it's something that military are well suited to the skills that they have and they've developed you know we've got the role engineers and they literally have surveying within within the role engineers so again that's a straightforward transition from the military into into surveying life and it's it's it's silly that we're not promoting it more with them I don't would when you went to one of these CT is it CTP career you said you've attended one of them obviously you've had conversations with people there like the people that are transitioning to leave did any of the conversations that you've had with those people did they have any misconception about the industry or about building control as a career did did how many how many already knew about it how many already maybe considered it and how many didn't know about it or knew about it but had some misconceptions on it or maybe thought maybe no that's not the right one for me and then you've told them about your own journey now it's a really good question because I think you know that's actually it could potentially be another blocker that we need to sort of clear I mean some people when I discussed in the thing there was a lot of a lot of people with a lot of retake you know a lot of bureaucracy and within the role and I think that's not entirely correct is it so I think it's educating them to understand what the role actually entails and it's going back to that purpose again that we spoke about you know what is the purpose of building control it's I think once they understand that purpose of what we're here to do you know why the role of the RBI is so important and why it matters in everyday life I think you know straight whether like latch on brilliant that's exactly what I've just been doing for the last 22 RDAs you know and that transition across is just effectively jandering one half to another isn't it and then adapting their skills to fit to fit that role what advice would you give to any service leaders who maybe listen hopefully they are as many people as possible as always good what advice would you give them about getting into the fashion and what what they should really start getting the head around first I think the first thing is is understanding what the role is you know as you said there we've got so much back off we've got the code of conduct so really understanding what the everyday role you know of building control is I mean we've got that year transition so reaching out to a building control body asking because they do get the option to have some leave where they can actually go and do some work experience so using that work experience reaching out to their local building control body and saying well actually can I come and see what you actually roll is day to day so straight away there being exposed to it and understanding it so once they've then understood the role and you know what they need to do then it's looking at their actual career path for what do they need to do what qualifications you know each a military person when they leave they get what's called al-Qas credits and effectively it's money I think when I left it was up to £5,000 and they could use that that money to actually do a qualification so straight away we already have things like we've got degrees apprenticeships we've got I think is it university of all famines and do a building control and surveying degree we've got the university of the built environment they do a degree we've got total training development that do it MVQs, you know, so they could then look at what MVQs are. VQ they could choose to start and carry it on. And then ultimately it's deciding which way they want to go. Is it local authority? Is it, you know, private building control? What at the end of the day to me? What matters is that we get more people into this sector, we get more talent into this sector and service leaders shortly bring that. Yeah, so when they are ready to join the industry, they do have the likes of LABC, BCCA, K, University of Oldhampton. Yep. And if it's the University of Bill and Varm, they will be able to give Ganttson what would be the best course for them to start with and help and get their career start as well. So they won't just be going in blind. They will have support from these different types of providers and to how they're going to progress through these courses. So it's nothing to be concerned out. It can be quite a a nice transition with support from an employer and from the actual qualification providers as well. Yeah, definitely. I think like the transition is 12, as I said 12 months, that work experience alone is going to help them, you know, calm them and sort of put them at ease because a lot of people, you know, it is daunting. When you finally put your name on that dotted line to say that's it. I'm now leaving. Remember, I actually asked for a early termination and so I could get out quicker within the 12 months and I sat in my office and I remember my back with Charmager walk through the door and went, yeah, your request has been approved and my face just went white because I was like, oh my god, I'm now going to become a civilian, you know, I'm leaving behind, you know, something I've known since I was 16. Yeah, it can be daunting, but as you quite rightly say there, you know, using the leave talking to building control bodies, looking at the qualifications, it's going to make that transition a lot easier. Wow. How long did you stay in the service? So I was just under 14 years in total. I did two years for free because I joined at 16 and obviously adult service doesn't start till you're 18. So yeah, unfortunately, we had a, when I joined, we were obviously at the height of operations within Iraq and Afghanistan and I think I spent nearly five years on rotation effectively. My first deployment was to Iraq and then when I got back within sort of nine months, I was then deployed to Afghan on the Herrick 7 and came back and then deployed to Herrick 11 and then the last deployment was to Herrick 20. But a lot of people forget that, you know, you see people deploy, which is six, ten, ten, to be six months long. But before that, you've got the training. The training can be anything between six to eight, you know, six months to a year long and that's been away from your families because you've got to obviously train ready to deploy and, you know, war changes all the time, things adapt quickly. So you've got to learn new things. So training is constant so you're away from your family more. So effectively, you say you're away for six months, but actually it could be eight away for nearly a year, you know, and that has a huge impact, you know, on your life. I had two young kids and I wasn't really seeing them. So it was, I thought at that point it was like, I need to spend time with my family, you know, and yeah. I was going to ask you a question. My next question was, what was, what has been the most rewarding part of becoming a registered building inspector? And I'm sure the most rewarding one is spending more time with your kids. I'm sure you think. Yeah, yeah, I better say that to my wife. When you said it, I was like, that question is already answered. Yeah, I've, yeah, definitely effort, but for me as well, it's, you know, going for the sicker process and, you know, seeing alpha or cheese, it's nice. And that wasn't an experience. Your previous Andy Crux was one of the panels, you know, at the time. So that was an experience in itself and being able to achieve something like that was good. And then the registration process as well, I think, you know, I think we can all admit, you know, at first it was a bit daunting, concerned. I think something positive seemed real. Sometimes today thinking, I'm a good enough, I'm going to pass. I had a positive experience with it. I think it's right that we are doing this. I think it's right that we, we are being held accountable as our beyes and we're trying to improve our competence. So I was proud of that as well. I think sometimes when negative, we're building strong, we can be quite negative and negativity, greed and negativity, but ultimately we've got to look at what we've achieved, you know, things have changed so much. You know, like I said in the last five years, I've seen shoes changing in the industry and there's only going to be more, but we can adapt to it. And, you know, and at the end of the day, the purpose, what's the purpose, you know, our purpose is to make building safe. I think that's something worthwhile, absolutely worthwhile. It's sure how much, how much passion you've got for the profession. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And again, that stems from the military, a selfless commitment and respect for others, you know, it's bread and tea, you know, I think I follow a guy called Nick Bear, he's quite inspiring, guy needs to be all in, be all in what you're doing. With this job, you have to be committed to what you're doing. Correct. Things change all the time. You need to stay on top of your game. You can't join this industry half-hearted. It's, you go and live it. I know my wife is probably bored of me talking about building a trouble because it's my day job. It's now a podcast job, which I'll do a bit to the weekend, me and me and their health, always talking to each other soon. What we should be doing next, but is while those were for me, I have to be fully immersed in something. Yeah. This is a job that I feel like I am making a difference. And I think all our eyes make a difference. We do our job as well as we can. Again, two keep people in our ambience. That is what it's about. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I think you look at the values and standards of the military. I think some of the standards is lawful, adhering to the laws at all times. That's what we need to do. It's an RBI's acceptable behavior. Behaving in a way that's appropriate for the military. And then professional conductions oneself with a higher degree of professionalism expected. There's no difference to an RBI. That's what we have to do. We have to act like that. The skills, the knowledge, the experience, the behavior skills, the transition. Again, it's just taking that that helmet off that military helmet and putting that hard hat on. And we've already learned a lot through the military. And all we're doing is taking it from a military context now putting it into a civilian context. So you would say it's pretty much almost identical or very aligned. I won't say it sometimes. I haven't seen this definitely change. It's different. Aligning in a way. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely the right word. I think certainly aligned. You know, you've got to look at the code of conduct for RBI. I don't think you've got the principles. Act with honesty, integrity. The integrity is a value that the military have to have. It's choosing the hard right over the easy wrong as Nick Bear says. It's important. When no one's looking, you're doing the right thing. I think everything we've been over today is very relevant, very important for people to hear, especially service leaders or other people are looking at change in careers and really don't know what they want to do. This industry building control, we need people, we want people, and we want committed people. And I think what you've discussed with us today is open my eyes quite a bit on what opportunities we are missing and bring it in. What could be really good people into the industry. And I'm looking forward to this. Get in put out there. Hopefully that will make a bit of a difference when we can start getting some more service leaders brought into the industry. Yeah, definitely. I think the one thing for me as well, probably the final thing for me is leadership. You know, we have, and I'm starting to see, we are seeing it now. We've got people that are really starting to take the lead in building control and be leaders, but that's breading and into the military to be leaders. To put that hand up and say, this is the way, follow me. And I think that's something the military service leaders can bring with them as well. And I think it's more important now than ever that we have that leadership, we have that direction and coming together as a professional. We need leaders, we need people to show us the way. Would you say that? Would you say that that's the key message you want veterans and the wider sector to take away from your story today? I feel that you might have a little bit more to add to that message. I think the message for me is it is a call to action. He really is, is it raising that awareness that building control is a profession for service leaders is the right profession. I mean, service, anger, they bring discipline, they bring integrity, risk awareness, leadership and ultimately, as I've said, for many times already, that strong sense of purpose and And that's exactly what building control, you know, we've built on and having them people come in will only make this industry stronger. It's going to take time. We all know that, you know, we've got to deal with the experience that we've lost. But over time, we're only going to get better and we're only going to get stronger. And the military military service personnel can add to that, you know, and then we can make this sector much better. Thank you for joining us today. It's been an eye-opener and a pleasure. And again, thank you for your service. And yeah, we'll be looking forward to getting this one put out. No, but I'm just thinking of a big shout out to you to, you know, to having this platform and then allowing, you know, RBI and building control to finally have good conversations. I think without the initiative from Jack obviously at the start, and I thank Jack obviously for inviting me to co-host with him. I think without this a lot, I learned a lot of things today as well. And I think many, many, many people that would be listening to this and the previous episodes and the future coming ones. There's a lot out there that we need to start sharing so people can get to know what are the possibilities that are out there. Aaron, thank you very much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure. I'm sure we'll have you again at some point, but for now, I think it's been an absolute pleasure and it's been brilliant. And thank you for your time. Thank you for the insights and I'll retaliate after Jack again. Thank you for your service to this country and the people of this country. Thank you. - hierotonic - (upbeat music)