135: Behind the Instrument with Isabel Hagen | Soder Podcast | EP 133

Hey everybody, if you are in Key West, Florida, June 1st and June 2nd, I'm going to be doing comedy Key West. Go to dansoder.com to get those tickets. And then if you live in the Bay Area, we are going to open up more tickets for the special June 13th. I'm probably going to do that through Instagram, so keep a look out on my Instagram. Outside of that, got a huge announcement coming up of all the clubs I'm going to be hitting soon, including the Comedy Vault in Batavia. We also got, what else we got coming up. We got New York Comedy Club in Stanford. That's going to be awesome. The port in Baltimore. And a bunch of other clubs were, I'm working on the building the new hour. So we're going to have an announcement soon with a poster and everything. It's not a tour, because it's not really a tour. It's just me on the road building a new hour. But we're going to let you know what all those cities are, dates, all throughout the rest of the year. Very, very soon. I appreciate you watching the podcast. And of course, I appreciate you coming out to the show because you and stand up and rules. And you guys are the best audiences. That's what everyone says when I bring them on the road. They go, "Dan, these audiences rule." And that's because of you. Because of you. So I appreciate that. DanSoder.com for tickets. Enjoy the episode. I think people like Inside Baseball about stand up to a certain extent. Right. Um, like I'm a huge pro wrestling fan. I could listen to Inside Baseball about pro wrestling all day. Okay. Like I watched a video on YouTube one time of Stone Cold Steve Austin talking about the different ring sizes between companies and how it affected his matches in a way that I was like, this is for a very few nerdy wrestling fans. Right, right. Because he's just talking about how the speed of it changed the momentum of the match and shit. And I'm like, oh, I want to listen to that. But anybody that is in a wrestling fan would be like, what the fuck are they talking about? What about actual wrestlers? Do you think it's interesting to them? Or is it like two? It's still kind of like, young wrestlers. I think the way that we get interested when we hear people that, thanks buddy, that we like comedy talk about comedy. I think it's like I could listen to Colin Quinn talk about comedy for hours. Totally. I could listen to Chris Rock. I could listen to Adam Sandler. You know, I was like listening. Norm was always funny. But yeah, I love, I love Inside Baseball for that. But I think sometimes comedy podcasts can slip too easily into like, within the green room. Right. Oh, will you pass there? Oh, well, you know, you don't, you don't Brian. Yeah. Also, there's a lot of things now where like, people could see your comedy. So you can't talk about it if you suck. Right. Because I'll go, well, I'll just watch one clip. Yeah. Let me find out if this is your in 30 seconds. Yeah. Or even if you see somebody in a room, I've watched very popular podcasters do stand up and go like, and you and you go on yours and say you're good at this. Yeah. That's, but that is also like, you said we were fixing the mics. Hey, welcome to my podcast. I never do a real intro. I don't know what I'm doing. This is Isabella Hagen. Please watch her special. She's hilarious. It's on a website that I tried operating. And it made me feel very old. And I said I was going to remember it. What's it called? It's on Veebs. Veebs Veebs. Veebs.com. Go watch her special. Isabella Hagen at the bitter end. Which you think, oh, she's out of her bitter end. But no, you did a show at the bitter end. It's my first special. So I thought it'd be funny to call it at the bitter end, too. Like, well, we're talking about comedy near them. You know what happened in that room. Well, I know that, like, Carlin's been there and stuff. Yeah. But like, both versions of prior, when he moved to the city from Puril and Oyn and was doing, like, clean and like, nice, he was working, like, both versions of Carlin and prior did the bitter end. I'm buttoned up in a suit. Isn't that like that shit? And then the long hair or the tie-dye carlin. Yeah. Or prior, after he went to Berkeley and was wearing, like, the shikis and shit and being like, yes, they're gonna do it. Which is crazy. Watch Pryor's special. I think it's called Up and Smoke. It's like a really shitty thing that was shot at the New York improv. And he bombs. But you, like, see the beginning of a lot of bits that became, like, huge. It's fun to watch really good comics, like, before they get fully good. Like, there's a lot of late-night sets you can watch of comics early on. And you're like, I see it, though. Like, there's one joke where you see a glimmer of who they become. And you're like, the best example of that is the HBO young comedians special from 1995. I think, can you look this up? I think it's 1995. It is Dave Chappelle, Louis CK, David Tell, and someone else. And all three of those guys, there's moments where they slip into the thing where you go. That's like, Louis doing, like, joke jokes. And then he has a moment where he's like, Louis. Same with the tell. A tell is the one that you notice the most, because the tell is doing jokes. And then he does like a, well, maybe I didn't. Right. In the bio pic, that would be the moment where someone goes, that's the song. Right. Yeah. But something that we were fixing the mics for that I wanted with young comedians by Gary Shanling. And it's Chappelle, Louis, a tell, who else? Harlan Williams? No. I think it's the guy from Boston Common. What was that actor? I want to get the full line up. We'll get it. We sometimes we get stuff in real time and you watch it. But is about Anthony Clark. I don't know who he is, but Anthony Clark, who you would know from the USA show Boston Common and did much other stuff. But that special is crazy, because you watch him go like, oh, you have it for just a split second. I have to watch that. I've watched some old, like, Louis late night stuff. He's doing a lot of absurdist things that he kind of drops. That's what that is. But then you see one like premise where you're like, that's such a Louis math kind of premise. Where he talks shit about his life in a way where you go, no one's doing that. No one's fucking doing that. You, which crazy is you are a classically trained musician. Yeah. And in a way, I don't mean like, you played the piano for three years. You played the viola. Yeah. The viola, which is insane because it's, this is an outsider speaking. To me, it represents like a actual art. Like, actual art to me is like painting music in a string sense. I don't know why guitar doesn't do it for me, but a piano in like the viola, the violin, the cello. Yeah. Well, guitar has been butchered by like singer-songwriters. And guys at college trying to get pussy. Yeah. Yeah. There's like an ulterior motive. No one's playing the viola to get pussy. I mean, I don't know. There could be some sweet Asian pussy that comes up. I mean, I will also say like classical musician girls are generally pretty hot. Yeah. They are. You guys are also like kept in your tower. Yeah. You have to practice for so long. We are like an unta- I remember I dated a drummer for a few years. Sure. I think it was him who said this because like a jazz drummer. And he would meet all my friends and just be like, oh my god. Like, you guys gotta get in this classical music world. All their friends are so fucking hot. Just him going back and be like, you have no idea what I found. El Dorado of pussy. It's just they're all trapped behind these sheets of music. They're buried under this avalanche of notes. Yeah. So he just, was he in like a jazz band? Because to me, jazz drumming is still art. It still art, but he wasn't meeting this group of girls. But yeah. I mean, you guys are such nerds that jazz drummers are bad boys. Oh, they were, yeah, totally. Because they're like sun glasses on and they're like, dad tell you we smoke weed. Meanwhile, real drummers are like, I woke up from a heroin overdose and then I wrote this. Well, because Juliara has a jazz program. Yeah. So those were like the bad boys, but then there were the classical percussionists who were like the six mallet marimba players and like, but they were also like a hot level above the like, you know, guys who played violin. So at Juliara, because you went to Juliara, which is looking up. If you don't know, it is like an elite form, it's an elite art school. I would say it's the, it's the school. Yeah. Yeah. What most famous one at what age did you think Juliara was a, an option? Oh, um, well, I went to their preparatory program on like on Saturdays. So honestly, since, yeah, I'm a city kid since age 12 where my brother went before me. So I was like, oh, he can go. I could go, you know, for my simple brain, athletics wise, this is like you come from a a basketball family that's like going to go play at a top. Like you're going to North Carolina. Yeah. And you're like, my brother went there. I was going to go there. So like, was your parents kind of letting you know, like, you kids are going to learn instruments and you're going to go to Juliara. Not Juliara. My dad's a jazz sax player. So he had a very like chill approach to it, but he's like a lover of learning and like was learning music theory, just like self teaching himself. And so he was like teaching us triads on the piano and just being like, just wanted to like expand our mind. Sure. And then we got really And then because they're like paying for lessons, they're like, you're gonna practice. But they were also kind of like, don't go to a music conservatory, go to like a real school where you can have like a broader options, but my brother and I were both like, no fuck that, we just wanted to do music, 'cause we were so like focused and nerdy about it. - Did that feel like you're choosing or did you feel like you were kind of like led to the water? - It was super my choosing, 'cause I was so isolated and had no social skills, and like all I could do was like, I had some friends, but I was just like practicing and I was like, this is what I'm good at. All my friends play music, I'm just, this is my world. - And I don't mean to dance on your pain, but ain't nothing better than hearing a lonely girl play a viola from a faraway room. (laughing) How haunting is that? It's that sadness of no social life to me. - Oh yeah. - And this is, yeah, I am impressed by the discipline of it. I would say musicians that do, you know, whether it's woodwinds or like the pianos and stuff like that. To me, that's like the same discipline as I think about Mike Vecchione with wrestling, where I'm like, you have to watch your diet, you have to like, exercise. - You're a wrestler? - Yeah, he was a collegiate wrestler. - Oh shit. - Which makes a lot of sense. - It doesn't make sense. - And I lived with him for 10 years, and he's the most self-disciplined person I've ever seen in my life, as far as diet, exercise, doing the things, but you realize those were fundamentally built as a child wrestling. Him coming up through wrestling, the way that probably you have disciplines in ways that you're like, oh, that's good for comedy. - Totally, it's transferable. That's why like, it's okay if you're serious about something and then you quit it, you still get that discipline, which is like, that's the thing. - So do you have an easier time sitting down and writing jokes? - I think so. - Because of the reason I asked that is because of the repetition of like practicing, do you get pissed if people say violent by accident? - Not anymore. - But you did. - I used to be like, oh, actually, and now I just, I'm already so like, border-unlikable because of my, like, I just let it ride, you know? - Yeah, I mean, that is a thing where when you were, when you were coming, when you were growing up, were you territorial about it? Like, - Well, I was around mostly people who just definitely knew that it was mostly just other string players, so there was no issue. But I was very like, proud of it. And also, there's a tradition of like, viola jokes. Like, the viola is the butt of the, like, it's the one we make fun of in the orchestra. - Really? - So I was always like, telling viola jokes and like, really leaning into the like, self-hating identity of a violist. - That is. That's interesting to learn. - Yeah. - When you go those tuba players, they don't like self-deprecation. It's probably the instrument that makes them feel bad. They walk around and go, when you play the fat guy walking instrument, you can't be really self-deprecated. (laughing) I'm always, well, because I grew up like, the transferable thing was, I was, you know, which is kind of hacky. I was the class clown, but I was the guy at work that I always get in trouble for being funny, and then I realized that was transferable to comedy. Like just, like, take that and do, like-- - You realize being funny was transferable to comedy? - Well, yeah, that's how stupid I am. And this is why I stayed away from woodwind instruments. But I just, I think, honestly, and this is kind of embarrassing, didn't realize that. - No, I guess so. - I went into comedy and I went, write jokes, and you stand there and you tell jokes, and I was like, oh, I have the skill of, like, just bring the energy that you have getting in trouble at work to stand. That was when things started to click, which, on paper, you go, yeah, dipshit, be funny in the funny place. - I think that's right. A lot of comedians, like, new comedians, I think they forget they're supposed to be funny. - Yeah. - And they get really into, like, the math of the joke. - That was exactly what happened. - Yeah. - Where I was so insecure about my actual joke writing that I was like, no, there has to be a premise and a setup and a punch instead of just, probably what you're able to do now with music is just play. 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From May 22 through June 8, shop Hexaclad's summer sale and then lock free gifts worth up to $229. And if you're hearing this after the sale ends, don't worry, we still got you. For a limited time, our listeners can get 10% off our exclusive link. Just head to Hexaclad.com/soder to shop. After you purchase, please support our show and let them know that we sent you. What was it like coming into the world of comedy out of what made you get into comedy? - I was, it was a few things. Like I have really bad performance anxiety in my handshake, so. - Great for standing up holding a microphone. - I mean, it's, I clutch it and it's kind of my persona, honestly, it's a lot better than trying to play a viola when you're shaking. - So that would happen to you? - That would happen. Like the, and the older I got in the more serious, I was taking it like pressure, I was putting on myself. It was just botching everything. Like it's a miracle I didn't botched my Julia audition. But I was just like really falling on my face in a lot of situations. - Was it, was it like a thing where, if the audience was there, you were shaking, but if you were by yourself, you're just like, "Fuck it." (imitates humming) - Oh yeah. No, I'm like, I was like, "Oh, I sound so good, I can't wait." - I'm not gonna lie, this isn't helping you beat the sad girl in the tower allegation. - I know, I know. - You were just softly playing something whimsical. - Oh yeah, but I just like, I wanted to give it up. I felt like, oh, I suck at this instrument. Like I'm not getting any better. I just don't wanna do this anymore. And then I would watch, like it was time of the time when like Louie started putting a lot of stuff on YouTube, I sure like maybe. But like my roommate from Iceland was like, have you heard of this? (laughs) - I love it. No, 'cause the Icelandic accent, the way they are, they're very like, and this is a, I have a small sample size, I've only been a Reykjavik once, but like they're very like, you hear about, you know? They're very like, I'm sorry to all the Icelandic people that are watching, you're beautiful people. - Yeah, yeah, she is. - You're all in bread, but you're beautiful people. But they're very, I was doing this joke 'cause I went to Sweden in Iceland, and I was like, the joke was I went to Sweden and I found out that I'm half boring, 'cause my family's half Irish and half Swedish, and you're like, oh no, man, I'm half boring. And then I was like, and then I went to Iceland, and the people in Iceland made the Swedes look Italian. Like the way that they're like, you know, you're like, the fish is opening. You're like, are you mad at me? - It's a virtuosic practicality over there. - Yeah, they're very like, listen, you live on a tiny island in a very cold part of the northern hemisphere, you're gonna be like, what the allowance on there? - You're right. - Well, I don't trust you. Show me your salt. It was like, they don't have the equator where they could be hot and naked, and being like, come here. I love you. There is in the north, like, I don't trust you. You've come to a shore. You want fish soup. So, but your roommate from Iceland was like, - She was like, - Were you exposed to comedy at all before that? - Yeah, so my brother would watch George Carlin and I would always be like, and Chapelle, like early Chapelle, and I was like, this is the most amazing thing I've ever seen. I think I caught like an early Bill Mar special on cable one time, even, and was like, that was amazing, like, he calls it back at the end. Like I just love-- - First time seeing you call back, you go, black people with street magic, you go-- - In blue. - No! - You're like, yeah! - That's the first thing. Keep talking about that earlier. - It was like more impactful than the first time I came, you know. - That's so funny. A callback being better than the first war. - A Bill Mar callback. - Okay, I never liked him, and I don't give a shit. I know it's cool to hate Bill Mar now. That smart me fuck always bugged me. And I went through the 18 to 22 year old phase of getting heavily, heavily into Bill Hicks, heavily into Bill Hicks. Shout out Celeste, this girl I went to college with, she gave me a DVD of all the Hicks stuff, and I like would watch it non-stop, and listen to the albums. And then I found out politically incorrect, was written for Bill Hicks, and then he died. And Bill Mar took it over, and I was like, me, boom, all my homies hate Bill Mar. - Yeah, but I was just at the tail end of the era where you still would give someone your CD, or your, you know, there's something so romantic to that. - A CD. - Or here's my DVD. - Yeah, a DVD was, for me it was CDs. - Yeah. - Early 2000's Doug Stanhope became one of my favorite of all time because of all, like comics in Arizona would give each other burnt CDs, and you'd be like, oh, you haven't heard. So it's like, I know Stanhope hours that I don't know the hours known by the bits, 'cause I'd listen to that CD so much, but you know what was a special that, because of the CD changed, was David Spades take the hit. I watched it back in the day, and thought it was funny, but Barghetsi was obsessed with it, and we would listen to it, and I was like, this is one of my favorite hours, 'cause you're listening to it. And when you listen to something, you really like, give your time to it. You know, I don't know. - You mean like versus watching it, or just like-- - Like, we're driving, listening to it, and so there's nothing else to do, but just look at the road and listen to the Stanhope, and that was how I listened to a lot of albums. - And then no one listens that way anymore, because we have the competing phone. - But I know just from being on the bonfire with a lot of truckers' fans and shit, and having YouTube and stuff, people like to listen while they're driving. Podcasts and stand-up though. Stand-up is still popular for people to listen to, which I think is, without seeing it live, outside of seeing it live, I think the best way is to listen to it while driving. - Not watch a special. - I think it's for different people. I think my preferable thing is, I like to drive and listen to an album. - Yeah, well because you can't focus on anything else, except the road and the-- - And that's it. - Yeah, yeah. - And there's probably 'cause of my age, I romanticized stuff with it. When I used to listen to billbirds emotionally unavailable, there's a point where I was doing comedy, where I could hear them printing the checks to do the check spot, and I was like, "Oh, he's really?" 'Cause he did it at the Laugh House in Philadelphia, and you're like, "How he's doing it at like a club?" Like you can hear like that. - You can hear the chits coming up, and you're like, "Oh fuck." And that just to me, I heard that because I was listening to it. - Right. - Not because I was watching a special. - Right, right. - It was like, I was somewhere and like, "Oh fuck, I can hear that." - And there is more of a, I don't know, if you're taking out senses. - Yes. - You're kind of almost watching it more. Or, you know-- - If you're hyper focused on it. - Yeah. But with you, with the state, that's why I'm so intrigued by the stage fright thing. When did that start becoming a problem? - It was always kind of, I would always be a little shaky when I played, but I kind of got through it, and then I started getting nervous about getting nervous. You know, I'd anticipate the nerves, and then I was done. I got total, I would take beta blockers that like, slowed down your heart rate. That would help a little. But. - Was there a moment taking the beta blockers where you go, were you just like frustrated, where you're like, "Well, then fuck, I'm not gonna." - I'm like, I can't do this without taking a fucking pill. Like, there's no, I didn't feel ashamed. Like, I don't judge anyone who takes them, but it's just for me, I was like, like, "Why can't I just do this?" Like, that's wrong with me. - What was your way out of it? - Well, and then I got an injury, I got like a repetitive stress injury while I was at school, just from like, you know, wanking at me. - From Ripon? - Yeah, from Ripon. - It's like, oh no, this? Oh, sorry, I got this injury from just absolutely. Are you familiar with Mozart? - Yeah, no, it was the box third partita, I think that did me in. - Yeah, that's crazy. You have a jeopardy answer for your injury. A lot of people go, I was a run, I was a runner back in high school as a second and seven, as a belt, as a belt, like, yeah, it's, yeah, I don't know if you're familiar with the overture, where it's fucking crazy. - I mean, it's just, it's meant for violin, the viola's a little wider, so you're playing violin music on an instrument. It's even like, it's just really hard on your hand, and I just kept getting hurt. So I was taking time off, and then I was in New York, 'cause Juillard's in New York. So I, I just wanted to say I went to Juillard again. - Yeah, there you go. - Sorry, I left my junior, I'm special to the other room. I went to Juillard, thank you for that. - But so then I just started going to open mics, because I, I think I met like a wannabe comedian at a party, someone who was doing mics, and he was like, well, I do stand up, and I was like, how do you do it? And he was like, oh, you just go to open mics. - Worst than being introduced to a sex club or a fight club is being introduced to low-level New York City open mics. - Oh, I started open mics and Tucson at laughs. It was a comedy club, there, it was a show. - Right. - Even though it was an open mic. - What a concept. - People would come, there would be an audience, and then you come to New York open mics, and you go, what the fuck is this? It's six guys not listening, and you just waiting to talk on a stage that's two feet by one foot. - There's nothing like it, and I think, I mean, in a way, it takes longer, 'cause you can't get accurate feedback, but also the pain and the shame is something you get exposed to so quickly, I think it's a good, like it toughens you really quickly. - If I were in the corporate world, I would do a team building exercise where we go sign up for a mic together at 5 PM, and everybody watches each other bomb. - That would be the best. - 'Cause you go, where's your ego at? - Oh, yeah. - 'Cause at any time you're in a group think meeting, and you go, no, no, no, no, no, no ideas or bad ideas. Remember when he thought it was a good idea to talk about his wife, and he fucking ate shit, and you're like, oh my, you're all, that's why, it's crazy to me that guys that I went to mics with are now famous comedians, 'cause you go like, I don't remember a couple of mics. - Oh. - Like Norman, listen, I would watch each other just, at Barguetzi, I watch Nate, I watch Nate let go. I literally watched him, it was at the Broadway comedy club used to have this side room called The World, and they would bark in people from Times Square, most of the time that did not speak English, and they'd put a comic, and then they'd do like four barkers, and then another comic, but the barkers would be doing stand up. So it was a nightmare show, and I watched Nate one time, he went first, soft-spoken, just doing his jokes, and not listening, and I watched him just go like, man, y'all aren't even, and then he just like, I watched him fall back, and it truly unlocked him, and he started-- - You need that, like if you're just viewing mics in places where it's kind of like a decent show, you might not have that momentism. I mean, you'll have it eventually. But then moment of like, I trust myself. - Right, right. - That's what I saw him have, because what's funny is, if you look at his first album, "Y'all That by a Clown," he, the way that title is, is the way that he used to get through bombing, where you go, y'all aren't even listening to track two. Oh, y'all are getting up for the bathroom, track three, oh, this joke's starting to work. It's really funny, in fact I have it. - Oh shit. - But see, if you look at it, the way it's titled, it's like titled, like he's getting up. It's like, I hope the crowd is great. Number two, I'm losing him. Three, I got him back. Four, what if I just walked off stage and never came back? Five, I can't do that. Can I tell you what's even interesting? I know I'm doing a lot of Nate Bargette's stuff. You know, go see the breadwinner in theaters now. I think this picture on the back is from the night he got lacic. - He's like whole. - Because his hat, we did a show in Brooklyn, and he did stand up the night he got lacic. No one knows, I don't know why I just remembered that, but he will confirm that. But see what I mean, I'm track 16, I'm hungry. Oh, this is great. Number, track number nine, where's that guy going? Track 10, I hope he comes back. Track 11, probably went to the bathroom. Track 12, or to smoke. Track 13, or is he walking out and never coming back? That's like, yeah. But then then, I don't know, that's just such a-- - It's a give up. It's great, that's how, so with your yips, was there a moment that you were like, fuck it? I mean, they're, 'cause I think the worst part about yips is you go into it, it's like being nauseous. If you're like, don't feel nauseous, you're gonna throw up. - Oh yeah, versus going just like, let me puke. - There was no, with classical music, you can't really be like, you know, fuck it, just play. Like-- - You know what, Bach needs my twist on it. - It's not like, save the last dance, when she's auditioning for Julia, and then she doesn't know, that's not how it works, you know? - I completely forgot that she's auditioning for Julia on that movie, and that makes me wanna know, did you wanna do a hip-hop thing with your viola? - Not ever, no. - You do still D-R-E, and they're like-- - They're like, okay. - Welcome to Julia. - No, there's no reward for doing your own thing. - Yeah, they go, you fucked up the thing that everyone's supposed to name. - Yeah, yeah. - How many, what's the timeline of you getting nervous to the beta blockers to you being like, fuck, I'm not gonna use the beta blockers? - Well, no, I still occasionally will even use them. - Stop a little beep, beep. - I mean, you know. - There's a little beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. - You know, makes you feel nice and dead inside. It's a, well, so I had a bunch of college auditions the first one I had was for New England Conservatory, botched it, like, didn't expect the, I wasn't ready for the pressure. - What is the pressure of that? You go into an empty room with like, - You go in a room with like five teachers there and you have a, maybe it prepared like an hour of repertoire and they just ask you, play this and then they stop you after like two minutes. I can now play this. And so you could ask you for anything of like an hour. - In that hour of, so you go just everything I know. - Yeah, yeah, everything I've prepared for this audition, which is like a full concerto, a full box, we, you know, an A-tude, all of the scale, I don't know, maybe not the scale. I mean, that was pretty college. Anyway, so I go in. - I just love the fact that there is maybe one, I hope one to five fans that know exactly what you're talking about. - Yeah, maybe. - I know, in my audience, I'd put it at one to five people. - There's probably a truck driver who plays in violin back in the day. - That's the whole son of a bitch. (laughing) - I remember the Croyd Surager. - Oh, this girl speak in my language. (laughing) - But so yeah, like I played so badly that they, I could see like the, they looked really, like they felt sorry for me. - Would they do, do they ever do the thing where they go? You can do that again. - I had that happen once in a masterclass where I played and then he was like, do you wanna do that again? And then he said, if I were you, I'd wanna do that again. - Oh no, it was so bad. - I wanna kill myself. - Oh, I mean, I did, I wanna, I did want to. If I were you, can I say, that's not your fault, that's his fault, that's a character flaw with that guy. - You didn't hear it badly, I played though, but. - Did he do the thing where he went? - Like, it's just like my hands like fell off the instrument and I try, you know, it's like, it's like messing up in a skating routine, you know? It's shit, but you're just falling. - I mean, you're talking to a guy that watched a lot of figures skating over the Wolverine Olympics. - Oh, so did I. - I'm an Alyssa Lou guy. - Oh, that, that was like, oh, should I just quit stand up and try to like, go back to playing BLM because she was like, I tried, what was it, like, another sport, right? - Well, she was at the Olympics in Beijing and she was 16, she was very young and she didn't do well, didn't meddle. Kind of was over it, was too stressed out and then lived her life and went on a ski trip. - Right. - And really loved skiing and she was like, if I can find the competitiveness of this, obviously I'm doing a paraphrase version. - She was like, I felt the fight and I was like, well, I'm already good at skating, so why don't I just use this fight? So that's when I was like, oh, should I just take the fight of stand up and just go back to Viola? - That's the problem with when you watch someone be their true selves, because if you haven't watched Alyssa Lou's program from the Olympics, it is perfect. The Donna Summersong, the way that she, when she lands that first and it kicks into the disco, you're like, this is the thing that Katie and I I was talking about is how happy she was doing it. There's a picture of her that they took from the top where she's spinning and she's smiling and you're like, this girl's just live in her best life. - Yeah. - But I wonder how many people that motivated in the wrong way, where people were like, yeah, it's like the way a good romance movie, like how Stella got her groove back, probably broke up some good relationships. - Right, right, right. - Because they're like, no, I just want to fuck on a beach all the time. It's like not really, that should be a flavor, but that can't be the whole flame. When Harry met Sally, these toxic situationships, they're like, we should be together. - And that's why Rob Reiner was murdered. (laughing) That is the payment for his sins. - No, it is a- - No, it is a- - He was like, you Rob Reiner. - Yeah, Rob Reiner, we fucking had it. But yeah, 'cause sometimes, for individuals, their thing is gonna make you think, so it made you go like, maybe the viola is not, did you pull it out? - I mean- - Did you bust it out and go like, - Yeah, right. - Let's dance, baby. (laughing) Did the devil one down to Georgia? Did the devil one down to Georgia? - I told my husband that I was like, I think I'm gonna start practicing again. - Really? - Then I didn't. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - How many people did that one night? I mean, I was like, I was drunk off how great of a performance that way. Truly made me be like, fuck, I love the Olympics. - Yes. - I love them so much, 'cause you see people just like, that's why the quad god, I don't know if you watched him, he's the only guy that can land like a quadruple axle, he does a backflip and he's like, he's the only one that can, in the world that can do this move. - Yeah. - And he came in and everyone's like, this guy, it was an afterthought that he was gonna be a gold medalist. He was the world champion, this guy's gonna, everyone was like, you could suck his dick, he's gonna win and then he didn't and he fucked up and he missed his move and he didn't even, he placed like fifth and he like didn't even metal. And I was watching and I was like, this is why I love the Olympics, because this is the start of the 2030 redemption arc, where we're all gonna forget about it and are fucking social media lives, but 2030, wherever the Winter Olympics are, you're gonna be like, oh yeah, quad god. And now I'm cheering for him, 'cause he had the failure. - And then he nails it and never was crying. - Yes, that's what I want. - 'Cause Alyssa Lou is a great story, but the reason it's a great story is because of the failure in 2016. - Right, and she can do it. - People don't realize that. - And her coach was like, you can't come back, this isn't gonna, this isn't gonna work. - Yeah, and she was like, if I come back, I'm gonna do it my way. And I think that's, did you ever have a moment like that with music? - Well that's kind of what I'm doing by playing it in stand-up, that's what it is. - Which on the special you do both. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's mostly jokes, but then I bring it, it's like a whole, a thing I do later on in it, but it's like a way for me to play where I'm like, first of all comedy fans are just like, wow, and I've never seen that before, not-- - You are showing fire to cavemen. - Yeah, yeah, and so it's like-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a real talent. - Ah, I make noises and buzz sounds, you fucker. When it was the first time you busted out, when did you do the mashup? When did the world's collide? - Four years in, I had just done stand-up, and I even did like a tonight show that would know Viole. I did J.F.L. with NoViole. - Like, I was like, I wanted to prove myself that I could do stand-up, you know? And, but right when that was happening, I was like, it would be cool. Like, I think I headlined for my first time, and I wasn't very good at headlining it, I was good at doing 10 minutes. - Very hard at doing 45 minutes when you've never done it. It's like running a marathon without running with a lot of distance. - And, see, I'm interrupting you now. I'm more-- - No. - We were talking about this off mic about, I know I interrupt and shoot-- - I just get excited. I'm like, oh my god. - But you were saying with the hips like, "Oh, my problem is I get so excited that I'm like, "I have a thought right now." - Which is vomiting words, but-- - So the people that have stuck with me, you're real ones, I have DMs with people where I go, I'm trying to-- - I'm trying. - And they'll be like, "I know." And then you'll see what's with the best thing, I know we're going off shoots. The best thing is I've seen people I've talked to on Instagram, Defend Me, and Posts, where someone goes, "Let 'em finish the story and someone go, "Hey, he's trying." And you go, "I am." I'm genuinely trying. - Oh, it's beautiful when you get people who like really know you. - There you go, you don't need-- - I promise I'm not trying to focus on listening experience. I just get hit with these lightning bolts of questions or saying, you know, sentences. - You just got a turbo mind. But-- - Did you feel like taking Boston out the viola on stage was cheating? - Well, I did until I was like, you know what, I know how to do stand up now, so let me, if I can find a way, 'cause what happened was, if even if you have 45 minutes of jokes, which I technically did at that time, it's still a muscle of sustaining the crowd, if you're losing them, knowing how to get 'em back, the check is, I mean, there's a whole other skill to headlining. - Warby poker, I realize I got laser eyes, but they're fading. I could feel my LASIK vision fading, and I know I'm due for readers soon, 'cause I'm hitting 'em on the '40s. You know where I'm gonna go? 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It's like Nate and Shane or the two generational talents that I know that I like watching you go Oh, they just in I remember when LeBron was 16 and I think it was Danny Age was the front office guy and and they were like you think this 60 he was on sports illustrated You know, there's a lot of hype behind LeBron James and someone was like Do you think he could play in the NBA and Danny Angels like I think there's like Six to eight players that I wouldn't trade Everyone else I tried to get this kid and he said the reason that is is because his court vision was unbelievable You could see things that were gonna happen before they would happen which does and I feel and stand up that's kind of like pacing Like the way Louis or a tell can pace or Chris rock or you just like watch it and you go like oh, that's That's an elite level that people don't understand how hard of a skill that is. Oh, yeah, because when you have jokes You go I tell the joke now I tell the joke and I said but it's like sitting in it takes a long time to learn It's like being a jazz musician kind of I mean there's a lot of and it's musical and like so so I even though I wasn't good at the pacing I still could sense that that was a skill I Was that a transferable thing of like you kind of understanding like maybe secondary with the music? Definitely like with structure and like okay. Like a little theme here. Okay, like when we do all these if I'm doing a longer story You can tell like oh, you need to like build up to it You can't like I just had sort of a musical sense about it It wasn't like I was good at it right away, but I at least had like the goal in mind Yeah, but I did this like kind of dead headlining set and of course I should have just been like is my first time headlining I'll just get better, but instead I was like well What if I brought the viola and maybe this will make it like and so then I I was like if there It would be like another thing to offer and I do feel like I'm like hiding a part of myself because I do have this skill that I'm There's so much a part of me. I mean you spent hours and hours and hours that that totals days weeks maybe even months of practicing and learning it and like going over it and like Yeah, from age five to you know that time I was yeah, and then I was like 26 when this was or 27 when this was happening Can you read sheet music? Yeah, like like you just could pick it up and immediately know what it is Yeah, like I go to recording sessions still where like for movies and they'll be like an orchestra They just pop the music in front of us and we just read it down. It's like easy music usually, but it's that to me is the coolest thing in the world because it is like It's the same it scratches the same part of my brain that people that know multiple languages Mm-hmm, which I'm just fascinated by where I go like oh you can actually communicate with people It is like being bilingual because like you see a note and you don't think that's a G You just think that note means this physical reaction, you know where it's like watching people that Have lived overseas and like I asked Shane because he lived in Spain for a little bit I'm like, you know he's like if I hear it enough. I'm back I had a friend that lived in Mexico City in middle school and he's like yeah Give me like an hour and I hear it nothing but Spanish and I'm back in it Yeah, I have none of that but but you've got it with other stuff I don't think I do I genuinely don't think I do I can take orders well. I was a waiter I spent a lot of my time you can remember a lot of oh my god. There's chips running low I'm on it. You could recite those specials. Oh, I can read you back your drink order It was so funny is the times when I was a waiter and I would try to stunt on him and be like I don't need to write this down And then you get to the key get to the mic roast and you go Going back and going that was but trying to act like you're not losing face. I love that So are you one of them exactly and you just act like you really can't like I just want to get it right I just want to make sure so that was a Tacos you go So when you when you bring out the viola for the first time headlining set Really like sorry? This is kind of a thing I used to like hide it like I used to get there early hide it behind a curtain And then at the end be like do you want to relay some viola and like it would be like a Supra or I'd have the host bring it up to me on stage at the end like I didn't want people to see me come out with it I'm still like I'll stand up. Yeah, but then at the end. It's kind of like and I What's the other thing don't worry Shaquille O'Neal did that in his rap career? There's a song called what's up doc and he goes at one point he goes You don't want me to shoot the ball and they go You want me to dribble the ball? No, you want me to slam dunk and they're like That was you at the viola. Oh, yeah. Oh, you're just you're just what's up doc can we rock with it? Yeah, I think people were confused if it was now sometimes it'll be like a crowd that came specifically for the viola like because they know me So then I'll I can tell they're waiting for it And that's it out that's when you go over and you put your head over and they go Not yet with going with picking schools in the audition process when you're starting to have like the yips was Berkeley in option They're they're more jazz like my husband went to Berkeley because he's more like so he's a musician. He's musician Yeah, he plays keys, but he's also like I call him more of like a real musician because he can like play guitar drums based keys Like he can he can like jam and like he just has a more like wide Understanding where I can like play the viola and like sing but like that's pretty sick sing Sing it's a cool skill. Sing is very difficult, but I can't like just You know like I need things kind of written down. So he's just like literally plug and play. Yeah, give him an instrument He'll figure it out kind of yeah, do you got so here's my question Katie. I think my favorite thing to do with Katie is Watch stuff and make fun of it. It's like what we truly brings us the most joy Yeah, I'm seeing something and making each other laugh by shit non something do you guys jam? Do you guys like play music together? With two musicians is that you're like like we watch bad TV because we're both Silly gooses. Right. We're silly geese. So when we watch something we want to be silly geese together, but do two musicians? No, we like to watch shitty TV So everybody yeah, cuz we we're not original. We'll work to yeah. I'm sorry. We're hacks. You're like something. I like to do If you want to open the door and yell that she's a hack Yeah, yeah, it's not unique people. That's a fun thing to do. Yeah, I mean, I just wondered if is there a musical version of that right No, because we're always we work together sometimes like he wrote music for my movie or like I'll help him Like I'll lay down like a viola wine on a track that he's making so it still is like work So actually when we're playing together, I'm usually like kind of mean to him like we just like look let's go Okay, you know that kind of thing so it's down a tasty lick on my like if he says like I don't know just can you just like do and I'm like what do you want me to do exactly tell me what to do like? I I only have so much amount of time like I get really there's no joy. Yeah Was that kind of did that in any way going into comedy save a little bit of joy with the viola because then it be a stop becoming your Primary yes, no now like cuz I don't do it as much and comedy can be such a slog that like sometimes I'll play like a Random wedding gig just cuz I'll take five hundred dollars at a to play like 30 minutes at a ceremony whatever And but we end up playing like a beautiful arrangement of like Ave Maria and I'm like I love music like it's so great You know, yeah, but then if I do it too much it gets really dark really quickly Yeah, that's the problem with Shitting where you eat yeah, you just go like it stops being fun after a while and so it's getting like I think You know at the content boom that we're going through right now and everybody's got to make something all the time I think we'll look back at this time is like a real time of burnout of people just being like You know, I feel bad for people that are really good at Sketches on Instagram because I feel like You have to turn your turnover is so quick that that burnout is like like stand up You can sit on a joke for three years right and still but still delivered every night It's still make it better every night versus like content creators have to be like I Made it here it is and here's the next one and here's the next one Like there's more left for us as comedians. Yeah, she kind of go like Well, I don't want to show you that yet. Right. I'm not done with it yet But if the sketch is the thing it's like well, why are you sitting on this put it out already get the views I think that's always been the difficulty of SNL that people don't realize is you do a 90 minutes of new stuff every week So you have to birth it Strengthen it and get it ready for showtime by Saturday. It's very hard. That's why that environment is God awful. I could imagine. It's really toxic. I don't know. Was there ever a moment? Have you ever daydreamed about what your life would have been like had you not gotten a comedy and stayed in music? Only very recently because I've been so burnt out and just like the The content like I just posted feeling like I there's just an infinite amount of things I could be doing to help my career and because of that I just sit still and panic Yeah, instead of taking like one step. Yeah, so very recently. I've thought what if I had just like Got in my own Broadway show because I was subbing in a lot of Broadway shows really cuz and like just playing in the pits So when you mean get your own Broadway show you would mean you'd be on a permanent Orchestra eat for like as long as the show ran sure And is that is that the way that most people make money? It's one really good way. It's a good job. Yeah, cuz you work like three hours a night and you can sub out half the shows And that's where I would come in and play and it's a good paycheck. It's steady So if there's like a depth chart for each instrument like two people. Oh, yeah, well every pit is different. Sometimes there's like a full orchestra Sometimes it's like just a string quartet and then some wind play. It's that every show is kind of different But but there's part of me that's like what if I just like did that and like didn't have to constantly be like making these calculations and Strategies and just started a family. Yeah Well, I mean, I think that's I think that's a fair thing for anybody to do because you know I think a lot of the times I think about like what if I would have never moved to New York and stayed in Colorado and like What would be my creative outlet? What would I be doing? But also, I think you do that at moments where you're a little burned out on like I don't want to go do spots And then I got to go do a fucking thing to promote this. It is I think but that's any job I think any fields you picked to go and and which crazy is no one ever gives that credit to doctors or Fucking cops or people that are like you do I did want to fucking save it But it's a lot every day nonstop all the time like being a doctor. It's like we watch the pit Oh God, yeah, I watch the pit and you go that's so hard and sexy and cool, but you go not if it's seven days a week 52 weeks a year and all that charting. I don't know about the charting I thought you just go in you save a life you go in the next room. There's all this homework, too That's like cops. You're like most cops shows should just be paperwork. Oh, yeah That's what the wire did really really well was there like no, no, not like whenever they had a case They're like no, you're filling out my fucking paperwork and you're like that would be the thing I would try to get out of if I were a cop I don't want to do the fucking paperwork. I want to wear a long Duster and smoke cigarettes and show up and touch the dirt and go. He was here recently, right? That's what I want to do I don't want to go like What was the address just like 30 what doing your taxes, but But after you shot a guy Shaking you go, okay, it was thirty one fifteen. I hate to have it fuck. Oh Sorry, I just keep remember him popping up at me. Papa. I'm not okay. Yeah, that's The worst part of shooting a gun's probably got it. You're like Good I mean, I don't know. I think it's like You know, we don't give breaks to people that have Like teachers teachers. It's not talked about enough. You're going every five days a week and you're dealing with Underfunding you're dealing with parents that think they know better, right? That's the thing where I'm like, dude If you're a teacher, you're a fucking dog You're you're I think I look up to you. They're paid like nothing and Of course they don't want teachers doing a good job because then you're gonna raise smart people They're gonna ask questions. They're gonna fuck everything up. Don't ask questions. That's why the curriculum always sucked That's why whenever you talk to a teacher a teacher that cares that truly cares You see the frustration in their face where they go. I know we could be doing a better job And that's also why you always remember your good teachers. Yeah, they're so impactful because they're fighting against this System and when you're going to school now you would school in New York City. Yeah We I know we we talked about it, but then we frayed but like Juilliard when your brother goes there. How much older is he than you? He's five years older. Do you go? Well, I got to go there like yeah like he got into the pre-college program and then He you started later you only did his like last two years of high school But I was like I want to go so then I went for five years of like I went from eighth grade through high school That was your choice yes, but because he did it I was like I want I just wanted like copy everything he did sure So I'm like I want to go there. Yeah, and then I and then I but he didn't he went somewhere else for college and I stayed for college That's so he didn't go to Juilliard not for college was he like? Fuck that that program is no he played the clarinet And they only take two clarinetists a year, but they take ten violists. So I think I just I'll be odds on that They go you play a fat neck violin Get your hair What in the in how many auditions did you do total for schools? Five where was Juilliard in that that was my second highest choice the place I really wanted to go is this music school called the Curtis Institute That's even smaller and more like elite but like less known didn't get in there. Where is the Curtis Institute Philadelphia? Phil is like, yeah, sorry Yeah, he states they out there they do it where it's like a first round and then you know if you made the second round like that day So I and I played I had the beta blockers at that point Best audition of my life best I ever played was my Curtis audition. I come out. I see my mom I'm like I nailed that 20 minutes later. They put up a piece of paper cut So what? Is your mom there when you look at the yeah at the list? Yeah, and just and just cry I know it's a painful memory. Do you try to cry outside? Oh She took me to a kudoba Honestly, it's just Chipotle with case ideas right that's why I fuck with it. Oh, yeah, I'll cry it into the burrito Oh, I love a good Qdoba. Oh, it's a little cross three four and Jersey, and I was just there all the time We don't talk about kudoba enough fucking Chipotle. We get it It's so dry, you know what I mean? It is. It's I like that. It's the way no one talks about the Burger King's burgers are messy versus McDonald's Like yeah, you're all Titan. Yeah, but Burger King. You're like, damn you're not wearing a bra That case I read down my chin So you go there and just like Do you I know this is I don't mean to be like Two in depth do you cry walking into the kudoba or are you like sitting down with your meal and you go like I think I don't fully remember it. Yeah, I don't remember the walk to kudoba I just remember like list and then kudoba, but I probably I probably waited But then I remember when my mom put my first dog is he down I don't I remember being in the car being told And then I remember buying micro machines at Target to feel better My mom was a really night. I'm not trying to make her seem like this makes her seem a little tough But in the moment I think she was so worried about me hating myself that she was like is about you can't cry about this You know it just didn't work out didn't you got to stop crying get a stop crying So you're crying publicly to kudoba. Yeah, I'm not blaming your mom at all She said he said stuff. How do you go stop stop stop stop stop so a mid burrito bite. What are you doing stop stop putting F*** into basketball on it. There were probably other people in there with instruments that like I don't know It was like everyone knew in the Philly. It's the Curtis. I just wanted to know that they get that key day. It was great for crying Get out of the street fucking had a good cry in the key day of a Yankee in here. Sorry Yeah, that is Posting and I never had that because I think my football my my football team took everybody you just were third string like me If you did or second string. I never had the list slapped on the wall Do or don't oh man. It was the worst was that the only school that did that yes the other ones You just waited there was only one round and you would just wait a couple months. So Juilliard was just one round one round And then I was in LA auditioning for another school the day the Juilliard results came out online So I like played an audition and then like walked back to the hotel and the audition didn't go well So I was like this better fucking did you know When did you know the Juilliard result? Did you know before your audition at that school in LA? I knew they were coming out that day and there were a ton of other people getting the results that day So we went outside after I got the results there was some people like crying some people like say you know You're like oh they didn't get in they got in oh same kids because all the kids are staying at the same hotel You know and we're all auditioning for the same schools. Was that like your reverse Qdoba day where you were like do you remember where? It was the best day because we're in LA I'd never been to LA before so like that kind of sun and warmth. I wasn't familiar with like the West Coast It was the big frozen yogurt boom time. I think it was like 2009. God. I loved when fro. Yo It's like novel. Oh, it's ice cream, but it's not ice cream. You go. It's still dangerous Yeah, but 16 handles you're adding in your own topping. So my mom and I we went to 16 handles. Yeah We walked around in the warmth. It was like the best damn and I don't know I didn't I spent more time with my dad growing up because he was like the freelancer my mom at a job But it was like spending time with my mom. I was just like a great day and where did you get the information at your hotel? Yeah, like online. I had to log in. You know, you're like and you're logging in. You're like forget your password is fucking Yeah, that is so fun. Yeah, it is getting results of that and it going positive is just So when you got Juliard, it was your second pick behind Curtis. Right, but I had already gotten rejected from Curtis So it was my it was ultimately my first pick and then you're like, I don't care about my stupid audition at this LA school. Oh yeah because they don't even have Broadway in LA. So going back, what a great flight home. - It was a good flight home, yeah. - No, I'm going to Juilliard. - Yeah. - And then did Juilliard stack up to what you thought it was gonna be? - Sure, I mean, it's one of those things like when I got there, I think the magic just died because music was my escape all up until then. It was like the thing that I would retreat to and then all of a sudden it was all there was and there were a lot of people like way better than me. So I was like having kind of an identity crisis of like, "Oh, I'm not the best." - What's that like seeing someone better than you at a school like Juilliard, does it? Like is that, does that thing make your lips worse? - Yeah, it's shatter, right? I mean, 'cause you, most kids who go to Juilliard were like the best and, I mean, I was in New York, so it wasn't like a small town, but I was still like one of the top in like my youth orchestras and so whatever, you know? I felt like. - It's pretty impressive. - But then you get there and everyone's like, "Oh shit, I'm not special anymore." - You see the power of Tiger Moms? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got a jam this kid didn't have any childhood. - Yep, yep. - This kid was just, this is what he, they did. - Yeah, I'm like, "You guys want to go get something to eat?" They're like, "Yeah." - Must practice again. But this is why you were saying your ex-boyfriend who was the drummer, he goes there and he goes, "Oh my God, all these kids have been kept." You guys were like, "Veeel, your feet had never touched the ground." - We had never seen the sun. - Yeah, they were like, "Oh my God, there's a whole, there's a whole thing, do you find in that situation like, did those kids over-party?" - 'Cause when I was called-- - 'Cause the ones who were kept 50/50, I over-party, I like, 'cause I didn't drink until college. So then I was like, "Oh, this is a thing?" - Let me tell you about what it's like being a kid that excelled in high school and getting fucked up. You go to college and you watch kids like that where you go, "You don't know what you're doing." - Oh, I didn't know it was that-- - It's so sad that an alcohol bottle is like my instrument. You're playing that all wrong. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You make some chase or-- - No, no, you don't do that. What are you doing? Licker before beer and you're in the clear. Have you never practiced? - Yeah. - I just was in my garage practicing. You take the bong hit so that you can fall down. - All right. - Yeah, that really is, that's an interesting part of everybody's collegiate experience. It's watching kids and substances crash into each other and see who can keep going versus who is like, I don't know. - Yeah, I discovered I had a real talent for it. It was lying dormant, but I-- - And that fun? - Oh, yeah. - It feels like you could, I know this is, usually results in you having to quit years later. It feels like you can fly. Oh, you guys are all babies. - Oh, yeah, you've seen people throwing up and you're like, I'm still going. - And I also moved from Colorado to Tucson. I moved from Aurora to Tucson, which was going from altitude to below sea level. And I was just body in kids. - Oh, yeah. - I was being able to drink in a way that I was like, ooh, I excel at this. And then it's in your late 20s that you go. - That might be a problem. - Maybe I shouldn't be proud of this bottle of Georgie in the corner. - Maybe taking down 16 Milwaukee's bests was the best showcase for myself. Did you feel like you get along more with comics than musicians? - No, I get along better still with musicians. - I love that. Thank you for your honesty. - Yeah, it's tough because everyone's like, who's your crew in comedy? And I'm like, meh, meh, meh. - Is it because of the raging insecurities that comics have? - I, oh, yeah, I'll put it on them. It's their problem. They're just too insecure. And like-- - Makes sense. - Yeah, I think it's a mix of things. One, I already lived in New York and had like a foundation of friends and families. So I didn't have the drive to go make friends in the comedy community. - I was thirsty. I was out there thirsty. - Oh, well, if you just moved here, it's your crew. - Oh, seven, I was just booty shorts, thumb out, walking the street. Jules took me in like a little quivering looker. - You go to the creek? - Yeah, I was like, I don't know. And he's like, nah, I used to open for Nick the Apollo. You have no idea how much he used to blink. - Oh, I have the blinking thing too. That's why we bonded. - Really? - Yeah, yeah. - You blink like this? - I do, sometimes. - I don't know if you blink like this. I'm talking about '07 list. He's a shutter camera. - I shot him, I shot a movie that I was in like every shot of and every take we had to be like, one more time. We don't blink this time, you know? - 'Cause he's nervous. - No, for me. - Oh, for you? - Yeah, Joe was in the movie too, but he was supposed to be nervous in the movie, so it was worked. - Oh, damn, you wrote his blinking in. - Oh, yeah, wrote him as a nervous conductor. - Yeah, he was one of the, he was the person that I met. It was like him and a couple other guys, but Joe was the guy that, it was like became the guy where I go, I would call, just texting was just becoming regular. - I would still call, yeah. - I would still call him and be like, what are you doing tonight? He's like, I'm going to this mic this mic and I'll be like, I'll just come in with you. - Yeah, I mean Joe still does that. He like takes in new, like he, he always has like a new comic friend. He's like, this person's so funny, like. - He loves comedy. - Yeah. - He loves comedy in a very pure way and it's always been that pure and I think that's one of the reasons I gravitated him so hard on our friendship was like, oh, I love it, just like you love it. - Yeah. - And it was great. - Yeah, he kind of, like he's my only friend in comedy. - Oh, really? - No, I mean, he's, I mean, that is like, I don't, I guess I didn't really think about it like that, but you grew up here, you went to college here. - Yeah. - Why would you bring in a bunch of weirdos? - I mean, I would love, I would love to have more comedian friends and feel like I'm part of like a scene, but I think also, like I'm kind of, I've got, I don't know if it's spectrum or whatever, I'm pretty divergent. - Sure. - And I think that gets hidden more with musicians for where we're all more similar. - You could hide behind the instrument. - Yeah, but with comedians a lot of times, I end up feeling like I did in high school again, where I'm like, I'm not cool enough for these people, like I just can't really hang. - Yeah, I, I completely understand that. - And I think, I think the reason I was able to make a group of friends was because of my alcoholism. - Yeah, well that helps. - Yeah. - I was thinking I truly was able to go out and just get absolutely black out for like, six years with people and then being like, all right. Well, and Joe got sober, then I got sober. So it was like a bonding thing of like a way to go like, he's my group of friends. - Right. - But if I went to college here, I couldn't imagine like living in Denver and doing stand up because I don't think I would have a big motivation to go out and like, hang with the comics. I'd be like, well, let's go to the Annie's house from my friend Joel's house. - Right, oh, 'cause that's where you're from. - Yeah, let's just grow up and be like, I just wanna go hang out there back yard. - Or if you're like me and I'm like, or I just like hang out with my parents. They're like, I'm a real nerd. - Oh, I go get dinner at my mom's house. - Yeah, yeah. - And be like, oh, that'd be nice. But I knew I would have fallen into that. That's why I left Colorado for college. 'Cause I was like, oh, I'll absolutely be that guy. So I'm very impressed with the New Yorkers that are able to do stuff like that. 'Cause I go, you don't realize the effort it takes for you to go like, I'm gonna leave my house with my husband and I'm gonna go talk to mentally unwell people that are screaming for attention. - Yeah. Although sometimes you do get those nights where like, someone you haven't seen in a while pops up, you have a great conversation about jokes. And like, you're both struggling with the same thing and you're like, what a nourishing night I come. That happens like once a month. - I got to have that when I was just in Philly and Shane came out and did a guest set and it was nice watching him go like, I missed being around. You guys are just nerding out about stand up. And it was like, oh yeah. That's, you know what I mean? Like, it's like fun to go. You're like, it's still, it must be the way, kind of similarly that you were talking about when you play a wedding for 500 bucks. And you go like, oh, I got to play Mozart and I fucking loved it. - Yeah. - And it felt really good. - You're just like, this is the best thing in the world. - Which I think that's to pay off. - Yeah. - I don't ever think, I think they try to, the business tries to hide it behind money and popularity. But I think truly, it's the illicit loo thing. I think to pay off as being in the moment, doing the thing you like and going, fuck, I really enjoy this. - Yeah, I mean, if you're really, if you love comedy and you have a good set, like nothing for at least an hour, like nothing can get you down. - I thought about like, would it must be like to be a lawyer in like nail a case and go like, I fucking nailed my argument. I got all the filings right. I just fucking did it. And then it's like, great, great. That's gotta be more important than being a partner or like. - That's what's so sad about comedians who now, like they rise really quickly on Instagram and they miss the development that makes them able to have these like good sets that, because you're not honing the craft anymore. - Yeah, I would say the reason our theater tour has been such a success is 'cause I've had so much fun doing it. And it's because I spent so many years half-selling comedy clubs and like really begging people to let me headline and then you just go like, oh, you're overwhelmed or you go like, well, it's not, I don't, the money's, you know, beyond my wildest imaginations. But the more important thing to me is like, dude, I'm having fucking fun. Like these shows where I'm just like, oh my God, I'm just hanging out with a large group of people who are just bullshit and I'm getting paid to do stuff I would have got fired for at restaurants. So I think you're right. I think like this quick development of like, oh, I'm famous now, it's like, but you don't know how to do the thing for the love of doing the thing. - Right, and we're all being lied to because we're being told that that doesn't matter. It's just like the speed, like there's no time, get it out there, but we're all being robbed. - Totally being robbed. - The only thing that actually makes it worth doing. and I think what's valuable of people hearing that if there's young people. to this from someone like you is, you've been through two different forms of artistic growth that you know that that's a fact. - Mm-hmm. - That you know that it was the viola or with standup. You know that's a fact. - Oh yeah, no, just get good at it. However you can, don't even have an Instagram. I don't know, like. - But see, that's the hard thing. It's like, I can't tell someone that right now 'cause you don't like, but, yes. - For a little while, I don't know, stay offline for five years. - Dude, me, second, is nowhere online because it was not around. - Yeah, even when I started that wasn't a thing yet. It was Instagram and no one was posting their clips. - No, no, and then you, now you feel this like, like. - I have to. - Yeah, and I'm like, I have like an hour I could chop up, that's all good stuff, but like. - That's the reason you put it in a special 'cause then you go, 'cause when we were filming on the road, Pimp goes, "Hey, it'll be a great special and you'll have a lot of clips to clap." And you're like, "Cause I was just gonna kill that hour." I was just like, "Yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna film it "for anything I don't wanna go through the negotiation "with a streaming service or something." And Pimp was just like, "Well, filming in a helium Portland "and then we'll chop it up and we'll make it look good." And you're like, "That's exactly." So it, back to the joy thing, it just made it like, "Farket, I'm just having fun doing a Wednesday show "at Portland, I'll put it online." And it was great and people, it's like, we gotta start going back to doing stuff. I think the two things that could really help society are no more investors and businesses. Like I think if you own a business, you should be at the business. Like, you should know how at all. None of these things where they try to make you feel like, and you do a week of service to Chick-fil-A, if you own it, it's like, fuck that, you own it, you're there. I need to talk to the owner. That and telling people that are going into the arts, do this for the enjoyment. - Yeah. - 'Cause if not, you're gonna go fucking crazy. - Oh, I mean, 'cause I'm going crazy right now. Like, you were asking me, like, do you think about your life without comedy? I'm like, now, right now I do. I'm like, I'm doing well, like, I'm fucked up. - Why? Because the specials coming out and like-- - Well, I can't even know how many of you will watch the special yet, 'cause I haven't got my first report. - Go to deep.com. - But like, just in terms of-- - We'll put it down here. - Like, selling tickets and I can't fucking, I can't sell a ticket to save my goddamn life. - Because that's, it's kind of similar with a thing where you go, because you're starting to think too big. - Yeah. - The thing the old way, which did suck in a lot of ways was, you would go, comedy clubs would allow you to headline, even if you were at selling a lot of tickets, because they believed in you. - Right. - And that's why you had these relationships, where then you do start selling tickets and you go, no, I wanna come back here and work with you, 'cause I remember, but they forgot that. - Now, I sell a quarter of it and I feel deep shame. I'm like, I'm so sorry you brought me here, even though I'm gonna, even though these people are gonna have a nice time, I'm gonna do a good job. - But I think the important, that's the importance being lost. As long as these, if you sell 30 tickets in a room that sits 100, but those 30 people have a fan, you have a great time and they have a great time, fuck everything else, the other people are worried, this is what I mean by like, if owners still own businesses, the owner could go, no, we'll get another night where we'll sell out. That was really fun and interesting and I think it's good. It's like, you look at a club like comedy on state and you can tell that they weren't like, who sells tickets? How do we sell drinks? They were like, this is a great show, come watch a great show. And that's why the people of Madison know, if I go to comedy on state, I'm gonna see a good show. - It's the same as like, the seller, right? - The seller's the same thing, they go, you're gonna see a great line up of great time. - A matter what, yeah. - No matter what. And then it just built on itself, Louis puts it in his show and then it breaks out like wildfire. So I would say the frustration you're feeling right now is very normal, but also know, you're not wrong for feeling it. - Yeah. - Because I don't think people tell you that a lot of times. You're not wrong for feeling that. Keep making good stuff and just, that should be, I don't know, but that's also like, I'm in a very, I'm in a lucky position, I've been doing it for a while, I have a fan base so there is like this, like maybe I should shut the fuck up. - No, it's, I've done this though, when you're in a higher position than someone giving them advice, you're always like, I mean, at least this is how it worked out for me. There is a bit of like, you gotta just, but I think, no, trust the like, it worked, you know. - I just, speaking of that, I just had that happen with Shane's shows at Madison Square Garden. He did Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And I was on the Friday show and Andrew Santino was on the Thursday show, so he was in town. And we got coffee and we got coffee me him and his wife and he was like, I'm going first. And I was like, because at the time on the Friday lineup, I was going second. And so I was like, it's similar where you give an advice where you go, listen bro, but you're not in that position. And he goes, I'm going first and I go, do you just go out there, do you jokes, stay relaxed. It's just another set. We're all shit in our pants. It's Madison Square Garden. But you go, bro, you got this shit or whatever. And then I went to the show that night and Shane pulls me aside. He goes, hey, there's a Blizzard coming. So Louis switched from Saturday to Friday. So you're going first and I was like, I just started laughing. I was like, four hours ago, I'm giving Santino advice where I'm like, bro, it's not that big of a deal. And then the rest of the day, I'm like, I'm going to go first and I'm going to go first and Friday. Oh, taking your own advice is impossible. Like, it's so humbling too. Like I'll talk just like a really new comic. I'm like, don't worry about it. It's about the love of doing it. That's exactly what I was just rob yourself of it. And then I don't get enough views on a clip and I'm like, I'm going nowhere. I'm going nowhere. He's got to see me while we're breaking it down. Well, I guess I'm just fucked in this business. Oh, yeah, I'm like, I guess I'm just a loser. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, hey, they show. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll buy a, buy a, buy a, hey, buy a, hey, buy a, it's out. It's we're all fucking humans. We're all absolute animals. Yeah. Isabel Hagen is extremely talented, extremely funny, has a new special out. Go watch it. Isabel Hagen at the bitter end? Or is it just, is it at the bitter end? Yeah, it's called Isabel Hagen at the bitter end. I love it. You go, she's at the bitter end. Yeah, one of the most world renowned historic standout places. Yeah, but they don't really do comedy there anymore that much. No, last time I did a show there was Big J's, What's Your Fucking Deal, where he did crowd work there and it was awesome. Yeah. It was very cool to be in that place and be like, this is awesome. Yeah. Your hilarious. Thanks. Watch her and follow her. Thank you for watching. Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING]