(upbeat music) - I need support staff to clear the room. - Stand up and walk, now. - Hello, and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRanger.com, and joining me in the studio, and he was a boy from school. - It's Andy Greenwald. - That was a hot chip reference. - What's up brother? You looking good today. - You're looking good today. - Hey. - This is actually the two genders, except for one gender, but like, you know, like it's two ways to wear the same, literal same outfit. We're both wearing jeans, and a denim shirt today was unplanned. I don't really know what to do about it. I guess I could take mine off and get the gun show going, but-- - We rarely have things in common. So this does really strike me as odd. You are, for those not watching along on the video feeds. - Yes. - You are also continuing to wear Philly's hat, which is wild, because I would like to state on the record before we get into our table of contents today. That since you declared that the baseball season is irrelevant until game-- - 60. - 60, the Philly's have not won a game. - Yes. - They have been in absolute catastrophic freefall since you announced-- - We have a whole segment to do at the end watch after dark, which comes after top chef after dark, which will be largely about Philadelphia sports, and where I need you to be. - Okay. - I need you to put a fucking jacket on and join me in the ice. But I will say this. Joel and B scene practicing. - Yes. - Mike Raible's infidelity, possibly torpedoing the AJ Brown trade. I think that was the time to strike and have a coup against Bill. - I was gonna say, this is what I take over for relaunch. - He's weak. This is actually-- - This is him at his weak. - This is Putin's whole strategy. Do you understand? He knows he has a smaller, less rich country, but he sees the long game. He's like little finger, and what he does, he just chips, chips away. And the next thing you know-- - No, the sixers lose in five and AJ still gets traded. He kisses me full on the mouth and goes, "I know who was he who." - No, he just shows you your new office on the fourth floor. - Wait, is that like, like, watch off? - No. Oh, yes. No, I just feel like generally with Putin, if you run a foul of him. - Just to make sure the window's locked. - And don't touch door knobs. - Grimoire, great to see you, man. I haven't said this in a while, but you can email us at
[email protected]. We've been getting some cool emails. I'm going to collect some for a mailbag coming up soon. - I think we should get all kinds of questions in this mailbag. I'm tired of being limited to like, what do I ask us anything? - What are the five best prestige TV shows? Come on. - Ask us anything, mailbag, incoming. - I think it's time to be more free with our takes. - Yeah,
[email protected], if you want to email us anything. - You can consider it our sub-stack. You know what I mean? - Sure, man. And then Instagram is the watch pod underscore. You can watch us on YouTube at the Ringer-TV. Rob Mahoney put up a really lovely video essay about the pit that our guy Kai Grady worked with him on. So shout out to them, shout out to prestige TV, who are also covering beef in increments. They're doing three, three, three, I believe, or three, three, two, or however they're doing it. We're going to talk about the first five episodes of beef today, beef season two. - I can't wait. - I would like to say something in the spirit of accountability. - Okay. - I believe that I was rather flippant in my like, beef got bad reviews and I don't want to watch it. - Thank you. - Thank you. - For one thing for this, it's impossible to really, I don't believe the numerical system people have established the metacritic numbers or whatever to say, this is getting this meta score or whatever. I believe beef is doing fine with the critics. But you know what? It's doing better than fine with me. - Yeah, and it just goes to show you, do your own research. You know what learned anything over the last six years? - You know what I appreciate? You taking a page from your hero in Lori Chavez Deremer's playbook, and when stories were swirling, you were like, you know what? This is untenable. I have to address these things, and remove myself into these things. - I haven't stepped them down before the ethics committee gets to me. - Yeah. - I mean, the other response was you could have sued rotten tomatoes for fake news. - But you know what, like I think there are things to critique about this season of beef, but I'm excited to talk to you about it. I had a couple of news items for you. - Okay. - What is a real, like I don't know if I want to do this to top the show 'cause I needed to be safespace.com to do it? But obviously some Michael Mann extended universe stuff in the news this week. First of all, yes. I did see Merrimon Donne quote, "Heat," look. - What's your comment at this time? - I couldn't be happier. Like if that guy wants to go get a cup of coffee and stare at each other and say, I do pods, I do what I do best, you know, like whatever he wants to do. - Here's the thing, I want to put this out there. There is a non-zero chance that he is a rewatchable listener. - Well, there's a non-zero chance also, like he's available. Like this guy knows how to reach the people. He did side talk, like he's done Adam Friedland, like he, - You think this is his next stop in his media trip? - The for-heat is mom Donne. - Oh, for you guys, I thought he was going to come to our podcast. - Oh yeah, I mean, like whatever he wants to do. - With these six secretarial labor burns, he knows where to show up. He's probably going to do like a Rob Mahoney video essay on the pit. This is how he had fixed health care. - I would love that. I think that's very exciting. And I think that we should make this happen. Because you're, you know how TMZ, just recently announced they are going to DC. - Yes, they are in DC. - I think this is a good next move for you guys. I think that this is the next world you need to conquer. - Democratic socialism? - Sure, whatever you want to call it. I'm just saying, I think that like the merging of these worlds, because you notice that they're people that occasionally pundits online, like a Matt Iglesias or something will be like, I would like to be third chair on JMO, you know? Like I think that this is all possible for you. - So we should just bring in the political pundit class. Is that what you're saying? - I think that there is precedent for, with rewatchables, when certain like celebrities or actors are fans, they have made appearances or they've talked about it, you know? So I think why not Senator Chris Murphy, you know what I mean? - Why not? He was here, I think he did press box. I mean, these guys are in the mix. Maybe they should do like a car wash where they do press box, they do rear tailgate, they can hear Jules wrestling story, and then they can go on. - Then they can show up with that blue Oxford shirt. - And just be like, are we sure beef's good? I mean, are we sure? - What is their trueest form? The sad thing is, we're all the same age now. - Yeah, I know, seriously. - It's fine. - Anyway, in the man universe, I just wanted to say that I have clocked the fact that Joseph Kaczynski's much talked about Miami vice adaptation or reboot is going to be called Miami vice 85. - Hell yeah. - I need a trait kit because I'm choking on it. This is absolutely ridiculous. I am so excited that he is going to bring his very, very, very polished like the true error of Tony Scott's like kind of slick Hollywood filmmaking and that he is going to neon the fuck out with 85, or maybe he's got a different vision of 1985. - I think this vision, whatever it is, is going to be seen through slatted blinds at midday. - Yeah, and I think it's actually pretty smart to not try to outmoder in the Michael Mann feature version of Miami vice, which is kind of like become like a bit of a modern cult classic. - This is you and the hot dog suit. - Wondering who's responsible for this. - They got responsible for this. There's a part of me, there's a small part of me that I can't tell if it's my head or my heart. So maybe it's my my trachea. There's a part of me that is as if not more excited for this than I am for heat to. - Wow. Thank you for sharing this here. - Because heat to still feels like speculative to me. Like it still almost feels too real, too crazy to be real that they're going to do this, that they're going to do a globe trotting crime epic with two of the biggest best actors alive and a crazy supporting cast if rumors are true. This Miami vice A5, awesome butler is Sunday Crockett. Michael B. Jordan is Ricardo Tubbs. I don't think that those time cruise rumors about him playing the villain are real, but crazier things have happened in this little world of ours. So I don't know. I mean, do you ever watch Miami vice the show when it was on in the '80s, not in the '80s, but have you ever watched it? - I've watched it sparingly. I have, it was, I don't know if it was the same thing in your house, but it was illicit 'cause it was on late. - Yes, let's watch it from the landing. - Yes. It was watched through a crack in the door kind of stuff or if you had a sleepover with friends who had a more liberal sleep schedule. - This is what you guys weren't done sure. - Just like sitting around holding hands in the dark in their gremlin sleeping bags, being like, this is the best one. It's a who's who of character actors, guys. - Yeah, or did you ever, you know what the big thing was? This is very generational, but I bet Senator Chris Murphy will get the reference. There was always like the one friend who had a TV in their room or that they could wheel into their room for sleepovers. - Yes. - And then you could watch. - Did you ever have the kid who had the TV come out of the floor or come out of like the half wall? - I heard about those kids. - Dude, I knew I had that. - God damn. - That took like five minutes for the thing to rise, but it was worth it. - Yeah, but it was. - Every minute you were just like fucking out. - 2001 soundtrack play. - Cool way. (laughing) - Yeah, man, those were exciting times. I think that this movie sounds fantastic. I think the other thing you're responding to potentially is that calling it Miami Vice '85 really seems like they are going to be dialing in on the aesthetics of what already made it America great, whereas Heat 2 is the movie that Michael Mann is going to make next, which is of great interest, but increasingly with this cast list, and you say a global, it's a global crime wrong thing,
- It feels less connected to what made the original special and maybe more a celebration. - And I'm a huge fan of the last two Joseph Kaczynski movies. - Yeah. - And I think that he will bring, he will infuse this with an energy that I'm very interested to see. Michael Mann is my Jesus, so I won't doubt him. But I just wanna see some set photos where I wanna see, yep, we're rolling in this year. - Okay. - Thank you for sharing that. That was very vulnerable. - Thanks, yeah. - That's why I wore this shirt. - The only other thing I had for you today was that I saw an announcement that Paramount is going to get behind a series adaptation of another cult classic, honestly. James Mangold's, I believe early 2000s. - God, what year was I? I think it's earlier than that. I think it was '90s. - 1997. James Mangold's 1997 crime drama Copland. - Let me set the scene for you. The young, young fellow, no TV in his room, goes to the mailbox to get the hot off the press issue of Movie Line magazine. We're in addition to a scorching interview with someone who was in probably body of evidence or something. - Yeah. - There was like- - Wondafone. - There was literally, there was a little piece about how Sylvester Stallone is gonna, you know, dust off his acting boots and really give it a go. - Well, he did. And it is one of my, one of my favorite crime dramas of that decade. - It is. - Oh, 'cause it's incredible. - Leo. - I remember. - Harvey Kitell, Robert Patrick. Briefly Edie Falco. - Yeah. - And Stallone. - Very dramatic ending. - Yeah, it's just fantastic. Anyway, this is actually a film to series adaptation that I think makes sense because for people who don't know, the concept of Copland is essentially a town in New Jersey that a bunch of New York cops have essentially taken over as their like soft retirement home slash place from which they do nefarious business. And Sylvester Stallone's character is the cop who polices cops, but not very aggressively. Like he's part of a kind of, you scratch my back, I scratch yours. - And he's deaf? - He's volunteering in his one ear, yes. And a cop who has to police cops is a good log line for a TV show that lasts multiple seasons. - Yeah, especially because it comes with a setting, like a town that runs by a different set of rules. - Now you don't have to set this in New Jersey to New York, although that was definitely like the sense of place in Copland is one of the major draws of it. It's so evocative of those towns when you get over the George Washington and you're driving south and you're just kind of like, what's going on over there? What's going on over there? And these are all like these kind of commuter towns that are very, and even like the way New Jersey is kind of set up where it's like everything is like a village or a township. - Yeah, in order to turn, you have to turn right and then loop back around. That about, we never got to the bottom of that. - Do you think Copland voted for Mikey Sheryl, for a governor? - Can I ask you that something? Do you think it would be better if we had more shit like that in Los Angeles instead of like the-- - Like roads? - Death race 2000 that is left turn on yellow? - Yeah. - Any follow ups? - No, I mean, I just think we could do some interesting stuff here with driving if we ever had to wear with all. - I think the problem, here's what I blame most in Los Angeles. It's the groundlings. I think that there is a culture of improvisation that has leeched from the feeders theaters to Silent Live into people's approach to traffic. - And this analogy, what's the feeder theater? - Well, any improv theater, because I watch someone just-- - You mean like people's driving has become more and more free jazz. - Yes. - Who is responsible for that? - I'm assuming, I just think it's the culture of yes and. - I think it's the culture of everybody being like, I'm looking at Google Maps. I saw someone today turn left to get here where we are at lovely Spotify and Downtown Los Angeles. It was the most impressionistic left turn I've ever seen. It was like Monet looking at water lilies for the first time. There, we were on that bridge turning off. And there were four cars coming. And there's no signal. So normally what one does when one has an arrow that it's allowed is one waits for the oncoming traffic to cease. Not only did they turn it from those cars, they then started to turn more to delay the impact of those cars as if they just took a little more time. - Yeah. - It would get them there. - It's tough out there. - It was like watching Will Farrell in 1993. - Well, you know, the reason why I bring this up is I was thinking about some Cape Fear coming soon on Apple TV, which I think will be an extended version of like the story we know and love of Max Katie. Presumed innocent from a couple of years ago or a year or so ago on Apple TV, essentially expanding a very taught two-hour thriller. That's not ordinarily what I go for when it comes to these kinds of like big screened little short adaptations, but something like Copland, which obviously I'm drawn to anyway 'cause of the subject matter and because of the original treatment of an if mangled involved, I have a lot of belief the other creative involved is the old man creator, Robert Lewin. I think that like that's just like a really smart way to make a cool TV show. Yeah, you could just definitely like dial it up as mayor of Kingstown too and just kind of have it be like guys walking in rooms. It'll probably be pretty decent either way, but I like the thinking here. - Yeah, I do too. I also like you concern trolling TV shows about men walking into rooms. - I mean, it's well, it's all we got, right? They haven't figured out a better way to make TV, right? Let me know. - No, I mean, Lioness, there's a woman in the room. - Sure, yeah, for sure. - You got that. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for, that's when Prime's same day delivery has your back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit amazon.com/prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas, terms apply. - Should we just talk about beef? - Yeah. - Did you have anything else you wanted to bounce off me? He said you had a question for me. - I think considering my long disposition on left turning, I think we should just get into our shows. - Sure, I mean, it's your show too, man. You can call an audible if you want. - I work better within a structured offense. - Let's talk about beef. Okay, so not unlike the first season where I think I went into it and was a little bit like, what do we got here? What do we got on our hands? And then found myself just completely enamored with it and talked to Sonny and Jake from behind the scenes on the show at one point for the podcast. - And we should say Lee Sung-jin, who is the creator of the show, goes by Sonny. - Goes by Sonny and Jake Shryer, who I think believe these two are now collaborating on the X-Men adaptation, which is pretty big deal. This is three years after the first season. This is an anthology show. So the concept of beef is one I think we can interrogate and what unites these two seasons. I have not revisited the first season, obviously. But I'm curious to know if you drew any connective tissue to the other two. Obviously Sonny takes the idea of an inciting incident and really explores the studio space with it because from this inciting incident, so many different things kind of get brought in to this world pool of distress, right? This season, the new installment tracks the collision between two couples working in and around a high end country club called Motivista, which I believe is like set in Santa Barbara, I believe. - Yeah, and then the one couple, Josh and Lindsey, or in their 40s played by Oscar Isaac. - Excuse me, Lindsey's 39, that's a plot point. - Josh and Lindsey, who are in and around their 40s, they live in Ohio and work at this country club. Lindsey, not so much, she's hoping to be brought on as an interior designer, Josh is the general manager. There's another couple, Ashley and Austin, who are far lower on the totem pole at the job, the job totem pole at this country club, and Ashley's a cultural, Austin is hoping to catch on as a trainer of some kind at the club. And one night, they witnessed in the first episode, a fight between Josh and Lindsey of volcanic fight that they surreptitiously record and then use as tacit, then explicit blackmail over the first couple of episodes. Then the show explodes, and the show goes in a hundred different directions, but not, I don't mean that in a messy, unplanned way. I think what I wanted to talk to you about first with the show is, we did five episodes, so we've a couple more, we can maybe hit that on Monday if you'd like to, but what are some broad headlines about this season for you so far? - As I said to you last night, call me "Liver King" the way I'm loving this beef. This may be my show of the year so far. - Wow. - I loved it. I was completely, completely riveted and engaged with almost every aspect of it. Excited to talk about it in detail, why I'm excited to talk about some of these performances, but I was specifically thinking about what Sonny has done here and what he's established across two seasons, and I think that he is one of, if not the best example of a television author. What he is capable of doing within the Netflix model is remarkable. I wish it wasn't unique, but it is rare in that he is able to tell a sprawling, but I think very focused, thematic story across multiple episodes that has the necessary propulsion to keep you clicking, to keep you watching television, but doesn't ever feel, 'cause we've been bumping up over the last few weeks against a lot of pilots, a lot of new series that feel like, well, that kind of could have been a movie or that kind of is gonna be best expressed over five seasons. It's in the wrong box. - Yeah.
He is a master at this specific size box, and that is not a small thing. The second thing I was feeling as I was watching and loving these episodes was, I was trying to think about why I found this so appealing because, as you and longtime listeners know, I tend to be drawn to smaller studies that capture the minutiae of daily life. You know, for example. Well, you will spend a night watching a horror film in the theater and I will spend a night watching the Taste of Things. One of the most charming and beautiful French films of recent years about sumptuous cooking in the 19th century. - We can only be us. - Elite Juliet Pinoche performance. It's on Hulu now. The thing that I love about beef that really crystallized at some point, I believe it's in, might have even been in the first episode. I did watch them pretty stack them top of each other. - Yeah. - When the characters are scrolling, when the characters are Googling, when the characters are WhatsApping, and texting, and Instagram messaging, and then going into recently deleted, the way they're living their lives online on a show. I realize that first of all, interiority, as I love, or as generally we love in novels, is extremely exterior these days. We perform interiority all the time in our daily lives, whether it's the pictures we post, or whether it's the wellness journeys we embark on, or even just bringing everything up in either actual therapy or therapeutic talk, like the business of interior lives is about making that external. And I feel like Sunny has really captured that moment in a way that it feels artful and true. And specifically, there's a moment early on, and then we can get into the specifics. But early on in the season, Carrie Mulligan, who I think is brilliant always, and incredibly so in this series, is toggling between conversations and Google's and life choices the way we all do. And she's reaching out to an old flame, and then blocking the old flame, and then engaging with someone else which causes her to go back and unblock the old flame. And the immediacy of her emotional decision-making is so dysregulated, but also so available to her, that that then finds its match in the way these characters bounce off of each other, like super radical free electrons in this fish bowl of contemporary society. - You're really tapping into something there, 'cause it's also the thing that I think maybe, at some points makes my skin crawl when I watch it. - Yeah, it's intense. You know, not necessarily because I probably partially, 'cause I recognize it in myself, but there's often this trope about, like, well, would digital cell phones or would smartphones ruin this movie? - Yes. - And we're often like, yes, diehard would be five minutes long if people would protect, you know? It's strange to watch a show feel native to that in a really, really perceptive way. So much of the deception, the betrayal in this show is fueled by or the mechanism it's expressed through is deleting text messages, is, you know, like basically that kind of almost digital forgery that goes on if you are in an untrusting relationship or any kind of relationship. And there's like, you know, to what extent are people's phones? They're an extension of their own, you know, personal, private thoughts. And to what extent are they, just a piece of like tracking machinery that is following your wants and impulses. And you know, it's not like this is a digital surveillance show, but a lot of what goes wrong for these characters happens because people have fucking computers in their hands all the time. - And it is not an impediment to the storytelling. It is often the source of storytelling. - Yeah. - One thing that we, I think that we celebrate whenever we see it is when we can recognize even without behind the scenes interviews or access to the showrunners, moments when it felt like they had painted themselves into a corner and they were like, actually this challenge is an opportunity. Everything about this show flows from the reality of what they carry in their pockets. The video doesn't happen if they don't have it that way. The seething jealousy of other people's lives that fuels everything all four of these characters do in different social strata wouldn't happen if they didn't have this in their pocket all the time. They are living, you know, we've often talked about how like, it's hard to break through as a TV show because you are competing against everything that's ever been made all the time. And this show is about how it's almost impossible to be alive when you're competing against every other person who's alive and has ever been alive. - Yes. - And how do you stay within your own life? So it is, use the word native. I think this show is native to our time in a way that feels very, very exciting and gets the details right in the sense that you know the creators are being observant in the way that Austin tosses out the word late stage capitalism as if it was something that had been on a high shelf and he had just recently reached and taken it down the way that when. - And Austin is played by Charles Melton. - Who is incredible. I can't wait to talk about Kaley Spaney, who I think is remarkable in this. The four leads are astonishing in this. - When Lindsay, this sentence alone is going to give you a sense of the show if you haven't watched it yet. But when Lindsay and, oh my God, I'm blanking on Oscar Isaac's character's name. - Josh. - Josh are driving looking for their missing dog named Burberry. She says in the middle of her absolute anxiety spiral. Oh, a childish Gambino just shared. - My next door post. - My next door post. And when they go to a rescue, they say something about like, I saw Gambino's post and he's just like, he's a nice guy. - The specificity, it would be different if they were like Donald Glover shared it. - Yeah. - That, even in that small line, it communicated to us their relationship with celebrity. - Yeah. - And the people that they do or don't know and how intimate they are with them. Every moment is considered in a way that I found really thoughtful. - Yeah, I think that there's. When I'm watching this show, I have basically, I'm curious whether you ever do this with this or other series. You're having essentially the front, this sort of superficial visceral experience of like anxiety and or just tracking the various threads. And I should mention at this point that very quickly into this show, Josh who, you know, essentially his identity is being the general manager of this country club. The country club is taken over by a Korean company, run by someone named Chairwoman Park. - Played by Oscar winner Yoon Yoon-jung. - That's right. - And. - That's awesome. - She is fantastic. And it brings in like a whole other element to the show which involves like her husband. - Who's played by the legend Song Kang Ho, who starts parasite and memories of murder. One of my favorite actors alive and he's just. - He plays a plastic surgeon working in Seoul who loses a patient. And that is in its own sense like a triggering event for the entire series. And Eunice, who's a Chairwoman Park's assistant is also a very important character. But it blows out of the doors of the Ohio Country Club into a kind of much bigger canvas. So you're watching it and you're tracking it and you're kind of like analyzing all of the. Oh, this document was left out on somebody's table. So they saw it and there's a lot of embezzlement stuff going on. And then there is like the other part which I think I'm much more into which is thinking about beef rather than necessarily watching it. I don't find this anxious or uncomfortable to watch at all. Maybe it's not my favorite show of the year but it's probably the smartest show of the year. And I think it has the most to say. And I think it's the deepest so far. And maybe that should be. That alone should make it the best. But I think that seeing these three couples at various stages of their life essentially like late '20s, late '30s, early '40s and then much older like senior citizens, essentially. Well, the Chairwoman is 20 years older than her. The Chairwoman is probably in her 60s, right? Do I have 50s, late '50s? Chairwoman, the actress is approaching 80. Right. And her husband is 50 years older. Do you say Chairwoman's much older than her husband? Yes. Sorry. Yes. So the Chairwoman is approaching 80 but the husband is probably in his 50s. But in any case, much older than Josh and Lindsey. And the way the show kind of depicts love getting corrupted, no matter what age you are, depending on your economic situation. And also love getting corrupted regardless of your economic situation. You know, that there is essentially this coarsening, brittling effect that happens to any kind of romance. This was a hallmark of the first season as well, which is that the show escalates and then asks what comes next. We've talked about, this came up in our industry conversations, I think recently, and when we were thinking about the way characters fight on that show and then the types of, and in relationship, actually to the way characters fight on, are fought on succession. And one of the things that was remarkable about succession was that when Tom and Chiv went at each other, it felt apocalyptic. And then the show wasn't afraid to say, the day after, what happens in the smoking ruin? How much more is there to bomb? What remains alive? And the thing that Sonny does so well is he pushes his chips in on these fights that can, you know, the smallest piece of kindling can ignite them between the characters. But the fight that begins the series is immediately spun into something else. Where Lindsay is like, oh, you know, if you don't have fights like this, then you're hiding something which plants a seed in Austin's mind about what honesty is worth and how it's expressed in relationships. And it allows us to see a little bit further in the emotional journey of these characters as they get more increasingly caught up in these like Byzantine plot elements that are compelling and beautifully stacked on top of each other. But the show doesn't succeed or fail on the back of them, which is something that I really, really like. It succeeds and fails on its continued.
emotional archaeological dig of these people, all of whom who are given the full sweep of personhood and all of whom are can be both buffoons and victims in equal measure. Do you think that when characters are as well drawn as this and are given to use your words the full suite of personhood? It kind of obviates the need to have the do you like these people conversation? I hope so. Yeah I think it's a great question to ask and I find it I mean I find that it's the most boring question you could ever ask about art. It is but I do think that there's something to the durational experience of watching television where you have to like at least spending time with them. You don't necessarily have to watch the guy to be your babysitter but you want to see them over and over and over again. And partly because they are they can be competent in ways that are compelling they can be charming in ways that are entertaining or funny often which is something that the show is able to do quite well but the other thing that keeps you coming back and I think kept people coming back to succession not just from a baseline like kill the rich attitude but from a oh my god that excruciating moment of vulnerable humanity is pretty relatable and it kills me that someone I hate like Kendall or you know or in this case Josh is also capable of that moment. Yeah that's what the best shows do and that's what the show is to me is is doing through five episodes there in what I've read about the making of this season it sounds like Sony wrote very specifically for the people who he cast so not necessarily originally because I know that others had been in the mix for the show I mean you you mentioned it originally and rarely rarely you know hit lists or wish lists get leaked or get announced. The first stories about beef season 2 said that the four actors were circling the parts and it was Kayleigh Spani and Charles Meldon and Jake Gyllenhaal and Anne Hathaway who I think would have been phenomenal in this and I actually think Jake Gyllenhaal would have been better than Isaac Ascrize again actor who you know in cold I like more but we can talk about that specifically. I disagree with you about that. I think I'm a little bit warmer on the Ascrize performance here than you are I wonder what it is you think what what why do you say that? Okay so my there's certain things that you can just tell like you can I don't know if you can tell but like Charles Meldon is incredible in the show he is so so good at doing something that a lot of actors struggle with even great actors. Gosling is good at this too being dumb and putting that in quotes but also somehow soulful yeah Brad Pitt's the master of that it's but this is this part is Brad Pitt's performance in burn after reading but with the humanity filters yeah set slightly differently he is kind of buffoonish but he also weeps when a B dies in their apartment which tells you a lot about him both good and bad I think and I think that like little decisions to just suit and flatter the actors like I think Carrie Melgan is amazing in I think everything I've ever seen her in I think she's one of our best actors this decision to let her be British in this is so crucial which she said is I knew that it would require this this performance was going to require degree of improvisation that would just be much easier if I wasn't also worrying about accent and dialect and so we don't know what the original conception of the character was but adding in certain details about her life before Josh in about a royal yeah being photographed in the daily mail being posh and then finding herself in circumstances that her friends back home were probably all heart on Instagram but the reality of which is a lot more diminished than people might realize is pitch perfect I I love as Isaac he's as long as we've been doing this podcast he's we've talked about him like one of our favorite actors which which he is I find him less he so good and uniquely good at being never she I mean inside Lewin Davis is a masterpiece but there's something about his presentation and his physicality recently where he looks like he's still auditioning for Moonnight and he looks super ripped and good and healthy and I know that's part of like the Ohio lifestyle and presenting as someone who can hang with the rich people in Benny Blanco and Michael Phelps as he does in the show but it is slightly to me makes his neatiness and his vanity and his weakness impenetrable there's also I think it's important to note that that character is kind of living in a state of suspended animation where he's still like trying to get like the sickest stereo setup you know and and has sports memorabilia all over his man cave you know and it's like kind of like I am gonna preserve this version of myself and and I think that that explains also like why he looks the way he looks like yeah trying to stay as long as he can in his child like his best version of his body and it does track that like people who are rich and successful and famous wouldn't they would bring him along because he looks the part even if he can't play fully the part with his finances and everything else I this is just it's a it's a minor note because when he and Carrie Mulligan are going at each other he's exceptional when he's sort of looming over Kaley Spaniard threatening her and stuff like the perform the granular details of the performance are spectacular but there is something like when I see Jake Gyllenhaal on screen I don't trust him like I just I think that's a key part of some of his best performances going back to what you know I briefly thought was a masterpiece of television presumed innocent but that is something that he knows how to use it even in like the Spider-Man movie he was in you're like he's he's using his charisma but you there's something it's telling that it was hathaway and Gyllenhaal because clearly Sony has like an eye for pre-existing chemistry between performers and they've they've been in at least one film that I can go before Mulligan and Isaac have played a cross from each other in drive and in Lewin Davis and obviously are very familiar with each other as performers and I think it works really well and on the flip side of it Spani and Melton I think have this kind of like perfect vibe of like I can't remember how long they're supposed to have been dating for but a year and a half but they're fiat they're engaged and it has that like a lot of this show is about what does marriage mean and what what is your duty and what is your sense of loyalty to somebody made out of and you lift each other up or do you weigh each other down sure I mean I think that that inevitably happens in every marriage but like the the sort of bonds that people have in the like the how they wanted to find each other through their relationships is really fascinating the so we'll talk a little bit more specifically about the episodes now the first two I don't really have a ton to say about we've kind of set them up as these inciting incidents important to know that Spani's character Ashley has a medical issue with her ovary that is going to need surgical attention at some point but she doesn't have the money she doesn't have health insurance because of her current status at the country club how she's working she uses this blackmail footage to sort of start to attain more and more status both up the chain of command at the country club but just getting financial and benefits financial benefits and to me the series really takes flight in episodes three four and five I agree three features a wonderful a excavator of Carrie Mulligan's character and Oscar Isaac's character have long thought of starting a bnb and then they decide they want to start a bb and b which is a bed bath and barn and in the barn they would hold concerts because they've they they're remembering going to see hot chip at the Hollywood Bowl this LCD sound system at the Hollywood Bowl the the aging millennial details are choice also that exact dream that they have floated above Los Angeles like a giant thought balloon out of every house on the east side during covid like that is so we could move to Palm Desert and and Queen's the so it's so much cheaper there yeah and they go on this sort of fact-finding mission to see like another couple's version very similar version of their their idea and just immediately let their dream die like as they walk through the realities of what they would have to do but also the the scale at which they would have to be successful and who they would be competing against and how difficult that would be I even thought that the the way that so Josh text Troy who's played by William Fickner the great character actor who's the sort of alpha of the country club in terms of rich guys and is like you know we're thinking about doing this and instead of being like yes I'll invest he's like you should meet my friends who are doing it already and it's just such like a perfect like that's how a dream gets killed is with the one person not showing any interest and telling you by the way someone else is doing this already I just love that whole episode and then that episode culminates with a great fight between Austin and Ashley that ends with her jumping out of a moving vehicle shout out lady bird and then she winds up in the hospital and her medical condition in this in episode four is this harrowing like other side of the pit yes adventure where she you know is got this huge deductible Josh comes and she doesn't understand what deductibles are is great yes and Josh comes and offers to help her but only if she shows him that she has deleted or is deleting all of the backups of the video in the cloud which again is this sort of like [BLANK_AUDIO]
three layers of mistrust and everything as attached to, you know, all these digital devices that we have is that nothing is ever really deleted. - And a lesser show would run from that, either because the creators are old and don't know that things stay in your recently deleted folder or on the cloud or because it would dramatically, they would feel like it would dramatically cut off their opportunities. The show brings it in and makes it part of the story. - And there's all this stuff happening while they're in the hospital waiting room, waiting for Ashley to be seen, seemingly firmer injuries from falling out of the car, but really like what's really coming is this, the overre situation is kind of coming to a head, is that there are these text messages between Austin and Eunice, Chairman and Parks Assistant. There is Austin being somewhat territious about his designs on becoming an unlicensed physical trainer for the club, but then Ashley is also responding to these text messages and then deleting all of them and then Eunice is responding when Austin says the phone to text messages that he hasn't sent to his mind. So it gets very, very not convoluted, but like kind of complex when it comes to the ways people are communicating. And the fact that Josh kind of holds medical attention ransom for Ashley is a final straw she has to go into emergency surgery. They have to remove an ovary. And at the end of that, she's like, I will have my revenge in this life for the next and winds up releasing unintentionally, perhaps Josh and Lindsay's dog, and that leads to my favorite episode of the series so far, which is five, where Lindsay has to spend an hour looking for Burberry while Josh goes to play with hot chip. - At a Shelley in Utah off of a private jet. Episode four, we should note, Jake Shryard just a brilliant job directing the first episode. And I believe he came back for the finale of the season, but Sunny Direct's four. It is a lynchian fantasia in a way that is not annoying, which I think is worth noting, because it is a very challenging tone to strike where you can have silly jokes and humor, like not in that episode, but Austin thinking that invoices written for MISC, is a misspelling of missed. And he imagines that someone in Marta is providing missed for the club every morning, but also have kind of creepy, kind of funny, just very unnerving glimpses of healthcare crises in Ventura County all at the same time. And then these just constant subtle is not the right word, but appropriately rhythmic beats of the show's thematic drum, where Ashley does not know how healthcare works because she's never had it before. And in fact, the strongest opinion, sorry, the health insurance, but the strongest opinion she voices at least through five episodes is the Gatorade flavor preference. That's what she feels the most strongly about anything. - The whole Gatorade thing is killed me. - In real life, it's remarkable. Did you ever feel, I don't-- - It's like, what does he say in my professional opinion, the quenches the same? - The quenches the same. - Yeah, the quenches the same. - Did the, they're very funny jokes in this season. Did any of it ever take you out? I wondered like there's a moment when, because the one question I had is the latest criticism that I'm gonna offer because I think ultimately, I don't believe this to be true. But there were a couple of moments when it felt like the characters, particularly Ashley and Austin's intelligence level, toggled based on how good the joke might be, whereas Austin is sort of the golden retriever sweet, not so smart guy and thinks Miske is missed. In that episode alone, obviously she's been injured and potentially can cuss and as a knee and is experiencing torsion in her ovary. - That was what you said, has a knee, like your joke book. - Has a knee, she's out with a knee. - Jay Brown's got a knee. - She was. - That she gets the deductible stuff all mixed up, but then also thinks that the hospital pain scale is numbered like letterboxed. - Yeah. - Which was super fun. - I mean, I think that-- - It didn't bother me. I wondered if you bumped on it. - It doesn't bother me. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me. Nor does a guy be obsessed with hot chip really bother me. Like it's specificity is what roots it in reality to me. - Totally, by the way, you should mention, the reason she jumps out of the car is not any proof of infidelity. It's that she sees that Eunice's Instagram is private and yet Austin has been allowed entry into her private Instagram. That is a very contemporary concern. That is not a dramatic act out beat that I would say that my parents would flag where they to know how to turn on Netflix or what Netflix was or what beef is. - That's the thing is I do wonder for people who are not glued to their phones, like how some of this plays. No, I have no problem with the humor and I also thought that episode four was a really great example of something that's incredibly tense and everything is kind of building towards Ashley's surgery, but he still takes moments to have Austin have that weird interaction with the woman at the-- - Totally. - at the-- - Which is a vending machine. Vending machine, and the woman brought in on a 5150 who's tripping balls and like there's just flourishes and it feels very, very lived in even though it's in Netflix show that has like movie stars in it. It feels very much like-- And for me the reason why four and especially the end of four, the face Cayley Spani makes when Josh's long promised like white glove treatment comes through way too late and the guy is like, oh I wish Josh had called me earlier 'cause I could have gotten you seen immediately and we probably like the underlying message being we could have saved your ovary. Her nostrils flare for just a second and you're like man Josh is fucking dead. This is, and it is, I always remember Tina Fey talking about Rachel McAdams and Mean Girls and how like you can tell you've got a movie star when she can do a page of dialogue with an eyebrow arch or with like with one gesture. You can cut the words. And Cayley Spani does not have to say a thing but she is like, this guy just might have robbed me of having a baby. I'm gonna make it my life's mission to bring him down. Now that fluctuates over the next couple of episodes. It's kind of going back to the the Shiv and Tom corollary that you brought up. But to see her in the very next episode being kind of Carrie Mulligan's therapist as they walk around Ohio looking for this dog is it's its own kind of thriller because you're like, what are she gonna find out? What is she gonna find out? - And the way that the characters emotional arcs are not always jammed into each other because they are not in service of the plot. And not to compare and contrast 'cause they are very different shows with very different goals. But I think one of the things we were bumping on with Marcos got money troubles is that any interiority of characters lives or emotional state was so clearly created to be serviced by someone else's to advance the story of healing and unconventional family structure and it's plot plot plot. - Yeah. - This allows us to have that moment unsaid about how Josh literally leveraged her future over his own concerns by potentially blackmailing her back over medical care. And I believe it's the previous episode. There's that absolutely incredible sequence in which Carrie Mulligan's character wearing a red light face mask. - He's looking awful. - Seiz is trying to follow up on an resignation with an old flame and then he begs off and then she immediately Googles and sees on daily mail that he's seeing someone else and she just starts laughing slash crying maniacally and then chases a plan B pillow with a glass of red wine. So Bravo. This is cinema and I love it. I do have to ask if anything cut close to home to you, I mean, I know that we've probably all been to a hot show or two in our lives. Have you ever gotten mad at someone for getting COVID at mezcal night? That seems CR coded to me. - Getting mad at somebody for having COVID? - No, just like. - I got a British guy coughing in my mouth. That's how I got COVID the first time. I mean, it is what it is. I was so good. I had the fucking Johnson and Johnson. Nobody was touching me for a minute. And then I go to England for the first time and some guy comes up to me after a live show and goes mate and then just starts yelling at me about Crystal Palace like into my larynx and I was like, that's it. I had the worst fucking flight. Anyone in America has ever had coming back. I'm really sorry now in retrospect 'cause I was COVID positive and I didn't find it out till I got to LAX 'cause he had those cool tests. - Uh-huh. And I was like, that's definitive proof. - That's a funny story. - That's the novel coronavirus rampages through my body. It's by the best efforts of Woody Johnson's vaccine. - What was the question? So no, I don't give a shit about that. And I had some mess countnites with you brother and if I had gotten the big 19 from it, so be it. - All right. So what if I didn't mess up mess count night but let's make it beef season two specific? What if I. - Your mess countnites were great. - Thanks man. - Man, remember that mess count mix tape? We used a little tasting flights we would do. - Getting tobacco here. - And then be like, oh, it's almost 11 p.m. - Is that bubble gum? What do you think was like, it would be, you'd serve it. It would be like, are you tasting the bubble gum and I am, I am tasting gasoline. This is fucking fire water too. - So just staring at you. See if you're picking up the subtle notes of like saddle leather and regret baked into each glass. On beef season two though, Ashley's COVID, not Ashley, Lindsay's COVID diagnosis keeps her husband from seeing Top Gun Maverick in the theater. which is. it was bullet train. Oh no, it's right. It's Top Gun Maverick. Right. That's a very great fight. It's very Los Filos coded. It's also just a fight that like the way they're like, this is the problem with fighting with you is that you like completely misremember things like. Yeah. It's it's just a very very accurate depiction of long-term relationship fighting. And two Oscar Isaacs credit. His best moments on the show so far are the fights. And there's a moment when she's like, I've caught you in an egregious lie. The lie is whether or not she approved a door stop that he had sourced on Amazon. Oh, she's like, I'm going to go look this up on Amazon, right? Yes. And she's like, and she's like, you absolute idiot. And his face is the most alive that it is in the entire series. But he comes like their kind of chemistry. It's like when he, and I've seen this pointed out online. So I don't want to pretend like this is like my my blind observation here. The moment where he breaks into a British accent to mock her, she breaks a little bit or maybe doesn't. But like she certainly like has like this moment of nervous laughter. And I'm like, you could do that a million times. You may not get that reaction. And like, you know, let's see. And half the way in Jake Jill and I'll do that. That's all I got to say. They can look. Her British accent's quite good. Right. If she was if she was playing lazy. I do want to ask you because I think it comes out more in the final episodes, which we can talk about next week. But the international intrigue. Oh, yeah, we did talk about that in chairwoman park part. Where, where, where, where did you kind of, how do you feel about that additional sort of three to four characters and a huge other swath of plot being laid on? Well, there's two things. One, when you are this tightly focused on the emotional lives of characters that I'm interested in, add more plot. The plot becomes secondary to that. The plot becomes the scaffolding of the rollercoaster that the people I'm paying attention to are riding on. And if there's an extra loop in there, it's probably better for the characters. That's generally my approach to stuff. When it's working, I only note that stuff being preposterous or outlandish if I'm not bought in. If I'm bought in, I'm on the right. Two, something that I really appreciate about the series. And again, I hope we get a chance to, I've never, I'm calling them sunny like I've met them. Never met them. We'd love to talk to them about this show. This is a show that clearly is fueled by someone's interests. That he's interested in things. He's interested in exploring dynamics and has some unique perspective to bring to these dynamics. And so there's a scene when they talk about, or there's Wush, the tennis pro brought in from Seoul. And when he and Lindsay are talking about like things that Dr. Kim can do to change how she looks, you know, or improve subtle things. Or even the way the country clubwives talk about going to Korea and what Korea can do. So this this idea of Korean culture, Koreans can care. Korean beauty standards being folded into the batter of upper class California life. That's pretty real. I was curious whether or not there are elements of K-drama that like inner. Oh, that we might not even be. The sort of plotting and the way that this is this is playing out. I mean, obviously K-drama is like blanket term for a lot of different kinds of storytelling. But I was reading a little bit about it. I can't say that I've like watched a ton of it. Yeah. But I was curious whether or not there were hallmarks. This would be a good good thing to talk to Sonny about because like I wonder whether or not there's an influence there in terms of like the way the plot almost yes ends into like into the stratosphere. But I think that works whether I think I'd be very interesting to find out because that's not a genre show that I particularly familiar with. But what it does in practice with this season of television is that it raises the ceiling. The possibilities for the Josh and the two couples skirmishes are limited if they are just bound by the economic and societal limitations of those two characters. You put you raise the roof when you put in William Fickner's character who can just put people on planes and just give them advice and take you know and and and make things a make the people who are higher which is Josh and Lindsey make them want something. Yes. And then you bring in something on top of that. Everybody always wants something. That's the great thing of yeah. And you put people on top of that then suddenly the embezzlement or the blackmail can go higher. That's good. You get bigger which works for what the show to me works for what the show does. And then when you put to one Oscar winning certainly two Oscar caliber actors I would have to imagine having fun yeah playing these parts playing these parts with each other as a married couple which is not something I think they probably I don't know if they've ever acted together before but I doubt they've played that. It's awesome. I mean Song Kang Ho is like a leading man writ large and he is having fun playing a character part and that is such a luxury on a show like this. We'll wrap up Beef Monday with the euphoria. How about that? You thought you were like guess what this podcast is vegan now but no we like I just was all I did was like pass along like I guess this I shouldn't do the news. You know what I mean like I just was like hey you know what I've seen some mixed reviews of this show. You know it's like even the greats can be swayed by misinformation campaigns or honeypots like the first time it's ever happened to me. I know that Eric Swalwell said the same. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just saying not for what brought him down but he was involved with the you know Chinese asset. With that they've ever got proven right. I feel like now is the time we could talk about it. I want to talk to you about Top Chef instead. It would be incredible if I don't know if we have special Top Chefs. The Tidious Swalwell stands took down our podcast because of just one straight. I don't really want to talk about the food. Really I mean I've been to Cracker Barrel and I liked it. This episode is a grueling experience for the chefs. This is Monday's episode of Top Chef obviously. They have to make a Cracker Barrel-esque item from Cracker Barrels all day menu. They get put into breakfast lunch and dinner assignments but it seems like it was a difficult challenge. Even our boy Lawrence just undercooked a bunch of chicken tenders so you know it's possible. Yeah that nice pink in the middle. That was hardcore the way Kristen was like no you know she was just like this is this is not safe to be eating. Do you believe in bringing chicken tenders up to an appropriate temperature before serving? As a parent of children. You also spend a lot of time in England and they get chickens everywhere there of all different internal temps. You ever know come on man when we watch British food content creators the chicken there's just like and then I'm just going to dab that the salmonella off the cutting board before I put all my veg on it. The chickens look healthier. Yeah they are yellow. I'll say that. I'll say that for them. They do this Cracker Barrel challenge. That's the quick fire the elimination and begins essentially immediately in the studio where all the chefs much to their own chagrin have to make dessert because it's always funny there's like one or two people are like yeah I was a pastry chef but a lot of them fucking hate dessert and making it and it is going to be judged not by Tom and Kristen and Gail but by top chef fans who live in Charlotte. Yeah I was going to say up to that point I was like hello where was the call. Yeah and honestly those fans were delightful and it there was like a nice experience of like what it must be like you know when Tom is like this is shit and like somebody who doesn't eat that food all the time is like god damn that's like the best dessert I've ever had. These desserts were supposed to mirror several classics you know that Queen Charlotte would have enjoyed. Yeah Melissa Benoise the actress who's on a Netflix show that's set in North Carolina. I can't remember she played super girl and she's a huge fan of top chef. Nice. Yeah she seemed delightful. Yada yada like Anthony winds up winning the elimination challenge. It's pretty close to see who goes home and also the chefs I don't think the judges elected Anthony I think he won based on a vote right? No the the crowd vote always had three had up. Yeah and I think the crowd vote had a sway in the final decision making or at least or maybe or maybe you're right maybe they had the they had a voice. Okay don't we all and the more important thing is the elimination. Do you want pretty close to getting cut I think because she basically picked a caramel cake which looked quite nice and made something completely different and then and then just poured brown caramel foam on top of it. Yes and it was they were pretty savage about ones but like this is the age old top chef like are they really only judging these people based on the dish they have in front of them or is there a um does your cumulative kind of expertise or skill go into it. I I usually would say it's impossible not to think of that you know and what everything somebody's cooked until up until that moment but Rhoda is a good example of somebody who I thought was like running away with it and then went home we're not home we went to last year in the kitchen anyway. Dwayne doesn't go home Justin does yeah after the elimination it's announced that restaurant Wars is next as it always is and while this is happening Jennifer who is Justin's partner in life and also on the show with him and contestant with him Jennifer who has been experiencing these like some nerve pain in her left arm or in her arm now she's experiencing discomfort or like some like temporary paralysis in her face it looked like she was Bell's policy okay yeah this is not like I'm not breaking hip up like they she's posted on Instagram okay so she's but she had an attack of I think for the first time in her like Bell's policy which is quite scary yes and treatable and Joel and beat had that exactly so it looks like Jennifer is now broken the kind of bear like seal on like you you need to go get medical attention and leave the show. Here's where I want to get
into it with you. Okay, because I want to get into it when the episode started. So I'm I'm rare and to go, but I'm sorry. I was just giving people a recap of what was happening. I wasn't because because I think the as you should have the end of the episode shenanigans that led into last chance kitchen. Right. Uh, is about who actually has been eliminated and who will be rejoining the show. So for people who forget Seager was eliminated last week and did not go to last chance kitchen. And when last chance kitchen started, Tom was like, this is very uncommon and been we will explain at the start of next week's episode, which they did not. And then Jennifer goes home for a medical at the end of this episode and her partner Justin has been sent a last chance kitchen, but has given the opportunity to simply go back into the show as the most recently and replace Jennifer. And he turns that down to go be with Jennifer, but then does do last chance kitchen eventually. So this reinforces something that has been explained, I think, or at least alluded to last chance kitchen shoots later. So today's later in this case. So Justin had time to having withdrawn from the competition, make see that she was not having something more extreme. You know, there was worries she was having a stroke or something. She's been diagnosed. She's safe and she encourages him to give it another shot and to go into last chance kitchen, which she does briefly. Yes. And loses to Rota and, but Rota is not then sent back into the competition. So the, I suppose that the suggestion is that she will be back. Come back next week. This has not been confirmed, but this is obvious and they're playing very coy with it in ways that I don't think it's good television. I don't either. And I would say it's particularly not good television because this was a catastrophically bad episode of Top Chef across the board, because it did three of my least favorite things that the shows seems to inevitably have to do at some point during a season, maybe for vegetarian reasons. Got the big three, big three of Top Chef. No, no, let me guess one. Yeah. A corporate tie. A absolutely wedged in nonsensical corporate tie in that cracker barrel. Nice restaurant to go to when you're on a roadtrip. No problem. But to have Chris and be like, we all know and love their famous crispy-edged pancakes, which camera? No, we don't. We don't all know that. Thank you. Go on. Two. Making them do back-to-backs. Nope. Making them sound like Joel and Beat. He hates back-to-back. Well, the fucking bell's policy came from somewhere. Yeah. And how about them never leaving the studio? Being absolutely ridiculous, especially when last chance kitchen is there too. And the attempts to make it classy and like hang different lights and then bring normals in to taste their food to the entire episode feels claustrophobic and detached from any actual reality or presence. I will give them some grace here because last year when it was Top Chef Canada and it was like Top Chef warehouse in Canada or so were told it was really, really egregious. If you have to do one of these to then pay for or save money for some larger fuel studies later. Okay. Yeah. But yeah. That was two. That was number three desserts. I don't care about desserts. Chefs don't care about. No, but I also think that it's not good television when two thirds of the contestants are like, thank you for asking me to do something I don't like doing and I'm not particularly good at. Yeah. That's not very compelling. And then I also don't. You know, the Indy is the kind of guy who sends me Instagrams of steamed fish and is like, I am Paula Treaties now. This is my dream. Very, very clean, very clean fish. I also, I also ordered cheese for dessert. So like, let's, you know, let's be honest. I'm not saying I don't, I can even like a dessert, but if they don't like it, it's not a fucking ice cream cone. You know, like, let's just be honest. Like, I kind of, like, I don't, it doesn't need to be too fancy. I like a bread pudding. Baking is challenging. I even like baking great British baking show. I enjoy as well. But baking primarily is science and ratios and not like wild improvisation, which some of these chefs maybe are more talented at. And I also think that like the palate fatigue of all these people just, just shoveling in the sugar makes for kind of a muddled judging experience. Yeah, I have to imagine that that is difficult. I still think this has been a strong season editorially and vibes wise certainly. But I'm very unimpressed with the contestants so far. Unless the Rota elimination really was like accidentally axing your main character too early. And she will rise triumphant from the underworld like Norseus who didn't look backwards. I don't really think that there is a maybe something someone will emerge. Some of those people go on a heater later. I think Anthony Lawrence are clearly the two best chefs. And like, they are kind of being treated as like supporting characters to the twins. Yes. Jennifer and Justin. Gwen's got a lot of a lot of camera time. I think these are very charming people. Sure. But I don't. Oscar, you know, but it and the show it struggles year to year. I mean, it's only can rise as high as the contestants raise it. And Tristan was another Tristan and Buddha are generational like in the sense of like what they were bringing point of view. We've had buyer wire guys a couple of seasons in a row now. And guys that, you know, not a row, but we've had we've had them guys who elevate everyone else because if there's a front runner people are chasing or trying to get more experimental and like this season, we seem to have a lot of just fine folks who whose highs are not nearly as high. So that all of that was diminishing the experience. That was a week episode. But then to have it to kind of have it both ways and be like, there's an exciting mystery to come. We've never had this happen before. I mean, really, it's just a bummer that one of your contestants had a health issue and you have to bring back someone. I just don't under I think that survivor is just very communicative about like this person needs to go home and here's what's going to happen. And here's this. And here's that. Like there's a lot of overexplaining. And I don't understand why they couldn't have done something in the edit to be like the reason Seeker is not in last chance kitchen is because last chance kitchen shoots several days after the actual competition shoots on any given moment. And Seeker, it was a we were aware that Jennifer was not going to be able to finish the competition. But I guess my the reason is because my confusion is that he would have spoiled the Justin element. Yes, but they gave Jennifer this morning that she was going to be eliminated if she missed any more quick fires or any other elements of the show. To me, that kind of indicated that they did not think that she was going to be on the show longer. I it's totally fine. I don't want them to kick her off in any way, but there's something strange about like where has Seeker been now for like three days. He's in the stew room. He's just waiting focused drinking Josh wines. Right. So I mean, we got an email from a friend of Seekers or from a former colleague of Seekers that was like written in the first person. Just not that they feeling like the show is not capturing his personality. You know, um, and that I'll be interested to see what happens if he is back next. Do you think we'll have a new Seeker when he comes back humbled rested ready? Well, I mean, there's an element of that as well where it's like, did this guy get to like go home and conceptualize recipes for three days while everybody else is doing back-to-back crack or barrel dessert challenges? Can I throw something out there? Yeah. It's too soon to go back to an all star season. You want it. I think we might be approaching the time. They've done this a few other times where there have been some returning favorites who get another chance. Well, Kristen Guarantee's Jennifer can return whatever she wants. Sure. Although I, you know, she seems very talented, but there was I can't like when Justin was talking about her and actually his behavior towards her and his lightened demeanor in last chance kitchen when he was freed of the stress of how she was doing was very touching and I think really appropriate and they seem like they have a good relationship. But he's like she was crushing this competition before this happened. And I did not see evidence of that. Well, so it's less. When does her arm get screwed up like the second episode? It's less her opportunity to excel, though maybe she will when she comes back. It's that there have been years when they have sort of just given a little boosted a little bit by bringing back some like almost almost words and also rants just to give it a little more verve. And I think maybe we're headed back to that. How would you have done? First of all, we're avail. That email address is out there to come taste things. Preferably not a dessert challenge in the beautiful state of North Carolina. I would have loved to have done the the the pepper judging. What's really interesting. You hold on. We might have to switch the lights for this. You wanted to be in the 120 degree greenhouse and getting a progressive meal. Yeah. Of catastrophic newspapers. I don't want to want me to go judge cracker barrel food. Like I want to go to experience something that I'll never experience otherwise. I'm going to go on the right. I also would like to have new experiences. I would like to have you don't you want to have the clean white fish challenge delicious. I'm just saying I don't want to experience all the new things still awaiting me on camera. Oh, I'm not worried about that. I have a pretty good constitution when it comes to that stuff. How would you do on hot ones? Here's I've talked about this before. I'm I am no one can hit me when it comes to Sashwan's spice like set like I didn't know this about you. Sashwan like the numbing spice. I'll fucking dieting that stuff like really fly by doing extra fucking spicy on everything. But numbing spice is different than like the Carolina Reaper spice. I know. I'm saying like I have a different relationship to different kinds of spices. The reapers I never ate Danny Chow eat one in front of me at Grantland once and I thought he was going to have a fucking heart attack. I find I just I'd love to know I haven't I haven't I haven't really dipped my toe into that. This is what keeps you young and makes me quite old. You know, you're willingness to try new things. Yeah, but you I think I think that I just have like a much more like kind of like adventurous palette. I think you know more what you like. No, I like to try almost anything but I am not a fan of extremity for extremity sake in television or in spice. I think that the Sashwan stuff opened up a new dimension of like how I like
I like to eat food. - Do you like leaking everywhere? - That's the thing, when you're start ringing and you're a little bit in this reality, but also Desmond from Lost and experiencing parts of your childhood at the same time. - Day of fair days was free to me. - Do you want to do any sports before we go for After Dark? - Yeah, we're yet. It's draft day. - Before we do draft day. I want to ask you how many games in a row the flyers have to win before you pay attention. - It's interesting that they are having a moment right now. - On the precipice of sweeping the Pittsburgh penguins. - First of all, Pittsburgh is a friend to us. - Sure. - They've given us the pit. They've given us-- - Bane. - Bane's greatest moment. They should have a plaque there. Sandwiches with French fries in them. Great town. This year alone, I've been on the record as saying something true, which was, I don't think it was controversial, but it wasn't my greatest moment, where I said the impediment to me watching he had rivalry wasn't the full frontal sex scenes. It was ice hockey. I am so deeply uninterested in ice hockey. I haven't watched your beloved shoresy. - No. - I'm not a hockey guy. - Playoff hockey, there's nothing like it. - That's what everyone says. - There's just nothing like it. - Find a new slant. What do you, what do you do? Everyone, the only argument anyone I've ever heard, I've ever heard anyone make for hockey is playoff hockey. - It's just fucking intense. - This guy at least guy tripped it on the flyers again as headbeaten in at the end of the game too. And they just fucked him up in game three. Like they came back five two. It was just like, how many rounds of playoffs await? This is the first round. - Multiple. - Okay. - So I'll hit you up if we make it to like, the conference finals, how about that? - I mean, I, I am rooting for the flyers above all other teams because-- - And they're also like, the thing you might like about them, young guys, you seem to like each other. - That is, that's what draws me to most things. Weirdly, I like beef, which is not about young guys like each other. - As far as the sixers go. - That was pretty cool. I hope so, but yes, that was very cool. - My trademark look didn't turn that game. - Which is you checking in on it? - I thought, I thought I by checking in on it, it would cause like the entire team to suffer Bill's policy. - My question I have about draft day is what are you going to do with all your time when draft is over? - First of all, unlike Mike Raeble, I'm not taking off day three of the draft to pursue my mental health. I will be locked in across all three days. What's nice about the draft for me-- - That is honestly the funniest thing anyone's ever done has been like, I'm going to go into counseling after the first draft. - After the first two rounds. - That shows respect for all involved here. I-- - Can you imagine like how that conversation with his wife went where he was like, I definitely need to go see a professional after I make four draft picks. - Yes, after I spend time with the fellas. Like I definitely would schedule all things for after the NFL season. - We're just gonna go to Sedona after that to just kind of like-- - Rebuild. - Yeah, debrief on the whole thing. - That's right, we'll bring the whiteboard. - What's your next obsession after the draft? - You don't understand. - The thing about the draft that I like so much is that after the draft, we come away with, you know, four to eight new characters in my life who actually have no accomplishments in Midnight Green or Kelly Green as the case may be. Thus, I can then spend the next three or four months cleanly fantasizing about them all becoming Hall of Fame players and getting along. That will help me sleep. - And driving well. - That will-- - Yes. - Yes. - I shouldn't say that. - I always, well, or big DOM will drive them. That's what I thrive on. That's my preferred mode of sports. I'm beginning to think that I'm an offseason warrior, you know? - Oh, I definitely think you are. - Have you always thought that? - Yes. Not a bad way, but I think that this is where you thrive. Is it narratives? - Yes. - And in media, but not necessarily in game tape. - And in like, parasocial friendship projecting. - Yes, that's fine. - Well, you're all the same draft class fellows. And then the Instagram mods for like Philadelphia Eagles will post them of like, showing up at the NovaCare complex. And I'll be like, look at that. They fit right in. - We should do a bit of the fellows. - You and doing the carry mulligan thing from beef like wearing a red light mask and like flipping through. - And you know, just me rewatching when Howie Roseman called Jaylux Hunt and he said, what's up big pimping? But I'm crying because there have been nights like that. Here's something. Here's something you can guarantee. If you ever need my attention anywhere in the world, you people I know strangers just go near me and play the video of how we drafted Cooper to Gene. It's like three minutes cut together to make it seem like it was feta-complete. You know, it was all easy. If that auto plays in any moment of my life. - It's like you're taking a bump. - It's like, it's like you at hotpot. I dissociate completely and I live only in that reality. - It's been wonderful talking with you today. I really didn't enjoy talking about beef with you. - It was good, see? - Yeah. - No, the only thing that beefen was lacking. It was really crisp. - Seriously. - Sarah, Kai, Kai, thank you so much for producing and cutting and directing and lighting and making sure that we put our best foot forward. - Well, I think our wardrobe person took the day off in other ways. - Monday, a Monday, we're gonna talk about euphoria. Episode three and we're gonna talk about maybe the last three episodes of beef and maybe there's some other stuff to shout about. - Well, we actually made a blood oath that we would check out the audacity at some point. - Yes. - So we should probably do that. - I'm going to Ohio this weekend, so. - Yeah, boots on the ground reporting. - I know, I'll get to the bottom of Burberry. - Would you begin Monday's show with kind of like a verbal column in the style of Thomas Friedman in the New York Times about taking a cab ride and what you observed. - This O.I. Farmed a table restaurant. - Yeah. - And people are wondering what. - You could do it. - Thanks to everybody for listening, O.I. and we'll talk to you guys on Monday. (upbeat music)
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