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Speaker 2Hello, and welcome to the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pull yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat, and enjoy the conversation. This episode, Apathy and Bed Rot, is for all you parents out there struggling with children and or teens who can't be bothered, spend hours on sofas or in the beds, glued to televisions or devices or screens on laptops, never seem to want to do anything, and could quite happily while away the entire day indoors. Sound like an issue you're having? Well, stick around, as I'm going to not only address what might be the root cause, but also how you can slowly, yet surely, turn the tide in your favour. And I say slowly on the basis that if this is quite an entrenched set of behaviours, then it isn't something that you can suddenly magic away overnight. And for those of you who are listening to this at the time that it's released, we've got the school summer holidays coming up. For those of you who have children of school age. Yet, for those of you who have got younger children, don't switch off. I say this because some of the principles that we'll talk about will be really helpful to avoid apathy and bed rot happening in the first place. But also, we can begin to see some of this with children anyway, from an early age. And really, the episode is about addressing not just those that just want to while away hours in beds, but it's the apathy, it's the lack of desire, interest, motivation to do anything that we will also address as part of the episode. And before I record an episode, I plan it. I don't write everything that I'm going to say, but I have bullet points, as you probably have already gathered by the way that I set out the podcast episodes. And I genuinely thought, foolishly, clearly, that I could do this episode in one. But the reality is, it is a really big topic. And to be able to do it a proper service, it is likely to need more than one person. So let's see how we get on as to how many episodes it ends up becoming, because I want this to be really helpful, because it really is a genuine problem. And it seems to happen for a lot of parents that I speak to, it seems to happen almost overnight. You've got a child that is one year or one month, they're racing around, they're into everything, they want to do their sports, they're practising things in the garden, they want to go out and do things. And then suddenly, what feels like overnight, they don't have any desire to do anything. And they're just in this sort of slightly vegetative state, hence the bedrock. A lot of parents that I speak to who are really frustrated, are just literally, I cannot get them out of bed, I cannot get them to do anything, I can't get them off the sofa. The episode is about helping you where there's this apathy, rather than very specifically how to get children and teens off devices. That's a different thing. It's part of the apathy, but there's a wider, deeper, issue here, which I want to talk about. So first of all, I think it's really important that we look at this issue of apathy and bedrock in some form of context. So I want you to remember just a couple of things for context before we then start looking at what might be some of the root causes, because it's really important to understand where these root causes are, because it's the way that we'll handle it when we start looking at how we can stop it and start moving in the right direction, understanding how we've got here and why our children are reverting to this is a really useful thing when we then start pulling our plans together. So from a context perspective, it's really important to remember that children have busy days filled with listening to others telling them what to do. Now, whether this is a child that is at school, whether you've got a child and a teen that's then in those sort of examination years, whether you've got a young adult that's at college or university, or you've got a young child, toddler, three-year-old, four-year-old who is at nursery and or preschool or at the child finders. In essence, our children, regardless of age, have busy days. And those days are literally packed with listening to adults, telling them what they need to do. And so there is always going to be an element of children wanting to take an opportunity to do what they want to do when they want to at the pace that they want to. So we have to remember this. And so depending on how busy your child's day is, as well as their personality, it's really important to remember that they too, in the same way as when we've had a busy day and we've been consumed, whether we're staying at home and ferrying our children to various different things, sorting things out, whether we have a part-time job, whether we're working from home, whether we're commuting, whatever it is that we're doing, our days are also busy. And so we want, we as adults, want to find opportunities for us to do what we want when we want to. And so this potential backdrop for bedrock and apathy is a filled day. Now I want to try and shift that pace to compensate for myself. So that's one context that we need to remember. The other thing to remember is also this apathy is also an opportunity for them to clear their head and to also establish their own personal space. And so we want to remember that doesn't mean that we want to go down that particular route, but we want to remember that that's part of it as well. The other part to remember is that how our child sort of takes the opportunity to clear their head or takes the opportunity to do what they want to when they want to at the pace that they want to will also be reflective of their personality. So we often hear this notion about extroverts and introverts. Our children are no different. They're extroverts and introverts in the making. But obviously when we use the word extrovert and introvert, we tend to extreme polar opposites, which they are, but very few people are extremely one or extremely the other. We're combinations of the two. What's crucial about the introvert and the extrovert piece to remember is that it's not to do with sociability, which is often this preconception of what introvert and extrovert is. If you're an extrovert, you're super sociable. You like being out with people. And if you're an introvert, you don't. That's an element of the story, but actually introversion and extroversion is all to do with energy. So when we're talking about apathy and bed rot, it's really important that we don't need to label our children as introverts or extroverts, but understanding that their personality and their character will have an impact on how much offline time that they have. Not about offline as in devices, but offline as in away from people. So an extrovert gets their energy from people. Being around people energizes them. So if you think of them as a rechargeable, being around people charges an extrovert's battery. For an introvert, being around people discharges their battery. And the way that they charge their battery back up is by having time to themselves, doing the things that they want to, to top it back up. So when we have children that are either at nursery, at a childminder, at preschool, at school, at college, at university, if they're an introvert and they've spent all day around people, their energy is then going to be completely discharged. And so apathy and bed rot has a purpose for them in terms of recharging. When we've got an extrovert, apathy and bed rot is slightly different because actually they've been charged up. So they're using it in a different way. So these are all things that we just need to remember. And then we'll start looking at the root causes as well. But that helps us understand what might we then need to do. So for example, if you've got, if you have a good hunch, and let's face it, as parents, we need to trust our instincts a little bit more, that your child is probably quite introverted, then actually, and an introvert could be super sociable. It doesn't mean that they can't, they just need, they have a super crash afterwards. Then we probably want to be more compassionate about an introvert having that downtime. Now, obviously that downtime can't be indefinite. And when, you know, when we're talking about bed rot and apathy, this is a sustained amount, but we want to be a little bit more compassionate when we have that inkling that we've got a child or a teen who is probably quite introverted and needs that time. We will take slightly different approach if we've got an extrovert doing that. So it's about understanding that their days are busy. The other thing that we also need to bear in mind is that our children are expressing or will need to express their individuality and make active choices to spend time in their own safe space. So this is particularly for parents that are finding that the apathy and bed rot is happening behind closed doors in bedrooms and they're up there, locked up there all day. We don't want that to happen all day, but we have to remember that there is an element of wanting to express individuality and they're beginning that process of distancing themselves from the family as part of what will eventually be them moving away from the family. So if we just have some of this stuff in the background, because it's a really useful context for us when we then start looking at the causes. So this is the bigger picture. Yeah, that bit. Now let's start looking at what might be some of the core root causes. Yeah. So I say this with love. So take it with that element. The first one is to examine the culture in your home around entertainment and boredom. So remember as parents that we're the CEOs of an organisation, which is our family. If those of you who've read the newsletter recently will know I've sort of likened it to a sports team, whatever analogy works for you. But in essence, as parents, we, set the tone within our home and within our family. And if we have a culture within our home around entertainment, as in it's really important that our children find ways to entertain themselves and that that entertainment and that ability to be bored is not then pacified with a device or just television, whatever that might be. So whether that's an electronic device in terms of a laptop, a mobile phone, or whether it's a big TV. But in essence, we set the culture around how our children entertain themselves and what we deem is an appropriate response to boredom. So that falls in line with also then the expectation. So if our children grow up with an expectation of either, you need to entertain me. And if you're listening to this over the school holidays, you will know this will be a really real thing that you're dealing with. Sometimes we inadvertently. We inadvertently create a culture within our home that we are either entertaining our children because we have got back-to-back things organized for them. And then when they don't have that, then what we then do is our expectation of the culture within our home is around, well, you can then just amuse yourself with a device or just lying around because we don't encourage, we don't create a culture that when we're bored, we actively use our imagination to do things that devices or television screens are concerned about. And so, I think that's a really important thing that we need to do. And then the rest of the time.
Speaker 1Grow is therapy. That works. Covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48.
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Speaker 2We have an expectation that that time is actively filled with our children engaging in the environment that they're in, the environment being the home that we have, the outside space that we have, the neighborhood that we have, the road that we might live in, the village that we might live in, the town or the city. So if we've created inadvertently, it's not that we've actively said, do you know what? This is, this is what we want. But inadvertently, through whatever reasons, this isn't finger-pointing, this isn't accusatory, but it's really, we've got to understand the bigger picture. We then need to look at what are the things that we might have done inadvertently that has then created a culture and an expectation that this is acceptable. So it's looking at that. And it may well be that you're listening and you say, actually, do you know what, Mary-Anne? I absolutely can categorically say that we haven't created that culture. We've had a really high expectation that our children use their imagination and they're not on devices and that they're expected to interact with their environment and do something. And yet overnight, I've now got a child who's just full of apathy and full of bed rot. So those might not be at the part of the root cause and it may well be something else, but we have to start with that piece. And it may well be that that piece also works in conjunction with some other aspects as well, which we will look at. But I think we have to start with that bit because what we set out in expectations in our home is often what we get. And you think about the things that in your family have been absolute non-negotiables that you have utterly stuck to your guns over that for you, as you've parented and co-parented have been an absolute no non-negotiable. That happens when my children were growing up, that an absolute non-negotiable was around sitting to have a meal together and not getting up and down at the meal and not having, as they got older, then not having at the table. And that was categorically non-negotiable. That expectation was so clear that we never had any infringements. That doesn't make me a fabulous parent. Of course it doesn't because there were many other things where it was all a bit wishy-washy and woolly and this bed rot and apathy was very, very much part of my children's upbringing as they got older. So I'm very aware of that. But because one particular, area that I know was just so crucially important, that was never something that got compromised. So quite often, and particularly around this bed rot and apathy and entertaining our children over the holidays and the culture that we create at home around what do we do with downtime, it can very easily go from an appropriate amount where we think, God, they've had such a busy time at school or they've had such a busy day. Let's just let them chill out and relax. It's when it goes beyond that and you're literally feeling your hair out because then you just can't get them to do anything. So we have to look at the culture in our home. We have to look at the expectations that we've set. If that piece is not in place, then that really is an important starting point because whatever other things might be going on with our children, we also have to create that right. It's like cultivating that perfect soil for our children to grow within. We have to get that bit right. So that is one important root cause. Other really important things that we need to consider is actually, do we have a child that is struggling with confidence? And so what looks like bed rot and apathy is much more to do with trying to avoid certain situations. So I am actually not feeling very confident about myself. Maybe I'm really anxious about things and it might not be that I've got an anxiety disorder, but I just, I'm overthinking it. So I'm trying to avoid and I over-worry about things. I don't feel confident to use my time effectively. I don't feel confident to make contact with friends. I don't feel particularly confident about my capabilities in something that I used to do. Maybe I loved racing around the garden and jumping on a trampoline and doing somersaults and kicking a ball, hitting a tennis ball, whatever it might be. Now I'm full of self-doubt for whatever that reason might be. I'm feeling uncomfortable. I've got poor perception of myself. Maybe I've got a body image issue. Maybe I am overthinking how others might interact with me and I'm feeling that I'm being judged. So one of the other reasons why we can sometimes get at the root cause why our children then tend to withdraw is it's almost the safe space that is normal because our children need to decompress and they need to have their safe space as in their personal safe space where they have an opportunity to really think about what they're doing and what they're doing. So I think it's really important to think and ruminate about their day and to just empty that bucket. It goes beyond that and actually what it does is it provides this sort of cotton wool place where they don't have to push themselves out of their comfort zone. They don't have to face or deal with or acknowledge some of these wider challenges around their confidence in those particular situations. So they keep themselves, you know, that's often what happens, isn't it? When we're nervous about thing where we don't feel that we're equipped for something, capable of something. we then sort of put ourselves in a space where we avoid it. So that's another piece to consider. And that can sometimes be a difficult one to unpick because it may be that your child has always been really confident and suddenly they've done this and you feel that maybe on the outside they are confident, but you don't quite know. And so I think with that one, as when we start looking at the things that we can do to help move our children in terms of the right direction, that's where that communication is really crucial to try and unpick what might be sort of happening underneath that. But that can be a really big part is this just, I don't feel confident actually. Do you know what? I'm just going to avoid that situation. I'm just going to withdraw. I'm just going to keep myself away from those particular situations. And that way I keep myself safe and I just sort of, I'm in this particular, I just don't want to, I then don't want to necessarily do anything. So that can be another particular reason that we want to look out for. Another one can be that we just simply have a child who is overwhelmed, who is actually doing too much. And the bed rot is simply their way of bed rot and apathy is a genuine recharge because they are just simply doing too much. And I think that one's a much more straightforward one to look at because we can actually look at what the child is doing and what the child is doing. And I think that's a really good way to look at it. And I think we can actually look at what is my child doing on a regular basis? What does their week look like? What does their day look like? And am I getting this pattern of behavior as a direct result of just too much? And actually it's their way of just finding their own recharging capabilities. So that can be another cause. And then another cause can actually be related to do with sleep. So this can be linked to this issue of lack of confidence or anxiety. But it could be that what you're getting with the bed rot and apathy is a direct impact of a child or a teen who is just not getting quality sleep. And they're not getting quality sleep because maybe they're ruminating. Maybe they're taking ages to fall asleep. Maybe the quality of their sleep isn't good. Maybe they're on devices a little bit too late in the evening and they don't get to have that decompression and that downtime. If sleep is the issue, and you know that you've got a child who's struggling and isn't really having quality sleep or is taking a long time to fall asleep or is on devices quite late, then that will be connected 100%. There's one caveat, which I'll come back to, but will be linked directly to this notion of confidence or anxiety or worries or nervousness or stress, because we know that that is linked with sleep. So all of this overthinking, overanalyzing, replaying little movies of what happened in the day with different alternatives, things that they could have said, should have said, would have done, could have done, that will definitely link back in. But you are likely to get that apathy because in essence, your child, as is the case for us as adults, just simply hasn't had the quality sleep that they needed. They haven't been able to recharge properly. And of course, that's then impacted how energetic they feel the next day. The one caveat with sleep is obviously we know that there's a link between sleep and wellbeing, but the caveat in terms of where there could be an issue is that there's a link between sleep and wellbeing. So there's a link between there might actually be a physiological reason why your child is struggling with sleep. So obviously, just make sure that you explore that. But the easiest thing to do is if you deal with potentially what the psychological issue is with sleep, which is then feeding into the apathy and the bed rot, and that doesn't resolve it, then by all means, there may well be a physiological reason, which is much more to do with something chemical that is actually happening that is causing an issue with the sleep. But in my experience, you that are listening to this podcast, it's likely to be psychological and much more to do with confidence and overthinking. So this is a really good place to start. We're going to have a second podcast episode where I'm going to look specifically at what you can start to do strategies to start moving in the right direction. But I know that if you're a parent that's really struggling with this, you are probably desperate for strategies and tools and ways of moving things forward. But it is so important to get that, understand that context about the culture in our home and our expectations, and that our children want this safe space, but also to be thinking around what might be the root cause for my child. Because once we can understand that, we can then move on. And the strategies that I'll share with you in the next episode will be so much more effective as a result of that. So if in any part of the podcast episode that you've got some very specific questions around the broader landscape around why we get bed rot. Apathy and around the root causes, please, please do contact because we can always do extra episodes on this because I want it to be a really practical and super helpful. So do email it's contact at drmaryhand.com. In the meantime, there will be a resource that we'll look at very specifically the context, just to remind you, and then the root causes that we've talked about. And then obviously we'll add to that when we do the next episode, when we look specifically at the resources that might be able to help you with that. So my give this week, it's going to be just that checklist. So you've got that to hand. So you can go off and do your homework. You can do a bit of reflecting. You can do a bit of observation. You can do a bit of auditing in your family to get ready because then you're equipped to understand as you listen to the next podcast episode. So all you need to do to have your free audit is to head over to drmaryhand.com forward slash library, where you'll find the link to download the resource. All you need to do is pop in your email address and you'll get instant access, not only to this week's resource, but all the other free resources across all my other podcast episodes. As ever, if you have enjoyed this episode, I would be eternally grateful if you could follow, rate and review this podcast so that others can find us and we can spread the love. So until next time.
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