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Speaker 2Hold on, I need to check something because I've written something wrong here. Okay, no, it is right. Okay, sorry, back. Hello and welcome to the How Not To Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat and enjoy the conversation. Today's episode is about how to screw up your kids' podcast. Today's episode, Becoming Me, How Our Children Develop Their Sense of Identity, is a big one, really, because I think in a lot of the work that I do supporting families and supporting young people, so much of the challenges they're facing, whether that's anxiety, whether that's managing big emotions, whether that's confidence, all hinges so profoundly on their sense of self, on their who am I. And I guess if we take a moment to think about that, if we take a moment to think about maybe even the challenges that we face often as a parent in our parenting role, but also as an adult, a lot of it is wrapped up in how we identify as the person that we are, our capabilities, our abilities, our strengths, our weaknesses, how we compare ourselves to others. And so this is a big, quite intense podcast episode. And I think it may well be one that you'll want to come back to, re-listen to in lots of ways, because I actually think, and I've spent quite some time sort of reflecting on this particular episode and sort of pulling together some of my thoughts, is that I actually think it's probably one of the biggest challenges that we face as individuals and that we also face in terms of parents, because so much of the challenges that our children find themselves in, so many of the choices of behavior that they have that are not in their best interests are very much fueled from and come from that space of how they identify, because in lots of ways, who we identify with and who we believe we are becoming or that we are, whether that is correct or not correct, whether that's healthy or not healthy, who we believe we are at our core drives so much, TOEFUL. along the way. And those tokens are all part of creating this person that they're going to become that will be really true to who they are. And it will become much more apparent as we go through this about these various different stages. But in essence, what I want you to be thinking about is that there are these conflicts that are occurring, they're exact opposites. The successful navigation of that stage means that they come away with the strength. And if they don't successfully navigate it, they come away with a challenge that they then take into their next age and stage of development. Now, that doesn't mean that we can't then resolve that challenge that gets taken away with them. But it just means it really helps us identify almost when we're thinking about it in terms of how do I help my child who is displaying X, Y, or Z, we could almost go back to that when we're talking about identity to do the different stages and then resolve it. It will all make sense. It might sound a little bit difficult at the moment to understand, but it will all make sense as we begin to dive deep within this. But we want to kind of look at it in terms of developing these strengths. So let's dive in. What I will do to help make this, to clarify this, is that we will be sharing a table which outlines each of the stages in terms of the ages. It will outline the basic context of each of the stages. It will outline the basic conflicts. It will outline the virtue and it will provide a very small description to help you be able to understand it. Before I start, one important caveat is that so much of psychology is based on absolute ages. So I'm going to give you some ages around various different stages. Please don't be overly wedded to these. Don't worry about them being that, oh my goodness me, my child is right in the middle of this. Because it's a bit of a flex because our children sort of develop at different rates. So these are guidelines rather than very specific things. So let's dive into these stages. So stage number one is infancy. So this is in our child's first year of life. And the basic conflict that our children are navigating at this stage is between trust and mistrust. So in essence, what is happening as we know is that our babies are unable to fend for themselves. They can't feed themselves. They can't protect themselves. They can't keep themselves safe. And so this particular stage of our child's identity is them being able to, can I trust or not trust individuals to meet my basic needs, to be able to respond to me and my emotional needs, to be able to provide food for me, to be able to keep me safe. And so this particular stage is very much consistent to what we talk about when we talk about the importance of early attachment. And this idea that actually children are actively seeking this one person from the theory that we often talk about, this person that then provides this secure base from which I can explore the world. If we think about it, human babies are much more vulnerable than other mammals because they are dependent for so long. By providing a secure base for our children, knowing that their emotional needs are met means that they're able to explore their environment, assimilate information. So basically gather as much information as they possibly can and learn because they know that someone 100% has their back. So they don't need to worry about the saber-toothed tiger coming to get them. They don't need to worry about where their next meal is going to come from. So the energy that they can expend can all be used to get them back. So they don't need to worry about where their next meal is going to be about exploring. I don't need to keep myself alert to danger because someone else has taken care of that job for me. So that infancy stage in terms of that identity piece is, am I in an environment that gives me trust or does it give me mistrust? And if our children successfully navigate that, they've got that secure attachment and they know that they can explore things, the virtue that they come out with, what the strength that that is, that stage gives them is hope. And that hope is that I have hope that there are people who will always be there for me, who will be able to look after me, who've got my back covered so that I then can trust people in the world. I can trust that others have my best interests. So that's stage one. So hopefully we're beginning to see how these stages will work. Stage two is early childhood. So this is sort of the one to three, stage. And the conflict here that they're navigating is autonomy. So this idea of I can act on my own. I can be an autonomous person. I can act independently of others and be in charge of what happens in my world. I can act upon my world versus shame or doubt, this notion that they can't. So this is where this particular stage is, as we know with our young children, three-year-olds are learning through trial and error. They're developing a sense of some form of independence, some form of being able to act upon their world and for there to be an impact to that, for there to be a result within that. So the idea, again, with this one is that if our children are provided with an environment that allows them and affords them the opportunity to be independent, dependently and on their own, so that they can develop this sense of acting on their own will, on their own best wills, and that they've got some form of agency, that then the strength that they come out with, with this one is that they have a will, that they have some form of autonomy and that they are capable and independent. So this is our stage, our early childhood stage. So we're beginning to see, and as we move in further, where we might have a child who then may be struggling with a sense of autonomy, we can then be linking that back to, right, okay, so maybe at that particular age and stage, they didn't successfully navigate that. There may be circumstances that happened where that wasn't possible, or it may well be part of their temperament as they navigated that particular age and stage. So we've got infancy where we've got, they come out with that strength of hope. We've got early childhood where they come out with that sense of hope. We've got infancy where they come out with that sense of will and that sense of autonomy. Then we've got the stage of sort of age three to six. And the basic conflict that is going on there is this notion of initiative. So can I take initiative in some activities versus guilt? And so what we're looking at particularly in this one is, can I take some initiative and act in certain circumstances initiative? What I think might be a good, a right thing to do, or something that I might want to try. And if I'm unsuccessful, am I able to then see that as specific to that situation? So on this, in this situation, I tried this and it was unsuccessful. Or does what happen instead is I use my initiative, something is not successful. And what then happens is I develop a sense of guilt. And this idea about guilt and shame. So what we're trying to, in this particular stage, when we're thinking about that sense of identity is that I can act on my own free will, because I've developed that in my earlier stage of in the one to three year olds. But I've learned that there are certain boundaries to the initiatives that I take, that means that if I'm unsuccessful, that that is restricted to the situation and isn't about me, myself. And therefore, I'm able to continue to use that initiative. And so the strength that I develop in this particular stage is purpose. I have purpose. I also have autonomy, and I have hope. So I can trust the world. It's a place that's full of trustworthy people. I can act autonomously within that world and know that that's safe. And that I can then have my own purpose within that world and know that there, that I have no guilt around that in terms of whether that then is successful or not successful. So we're beginning now to develop a child who has successfully navigated this in terms of who they're becoming by school age, or certainly within those first year or so of school, is that they've got a sense of autonomy. They've got a sense of being able to trust the world and those that are around them in terms of having their back. And they've got this sense of purpose. When we then start moving a chunk of the school age, but the school age that is below secondary school. So when we're looking at our seven to our 11 year olds, and this for me is often when I start working with a family or a young person who is struggling with their confidence, or they're struggling with their anxiety, they're worrying about things. More often than not, and whether I whether they come to me as a 13 year old, a 16 year old, or an eight year old, we can always have that confidence. And so often track back back when we think about things that have happened when we do a bit of a charted history of how the patterns of behavior may well have shown themselves or that you know their typical responses more often than not almost 99.9% of the time where we can really plot back is that we can bring it back to this particular this particular 7 to 11 I think can then be a big part of when things begin to unravel so in this stage the basic conflict that's happening here is between industry industriousness and inferiority and this is the stage the psychosocial stage where the development of self-confidence happens so this is a really super super crucial age and stage that they navigate and please don't be wedded to this 7 to 11 it may well vary either way of a few years but it's a really important stage and it's a really important stage and it's a really but when we think about it this is where they're developing their sense of self-confidence they're developing their sense of how capable am I what abilities do I have what sense of competence do I have or the conflict against that industry is all about confidence isn't it and competence whereas inferiority is about that I'm less than I'm not as good as I'm not capable so we get this conflict so if they experience their world and they're not as good as I'm not capable through their experiences in their world and this isn't about us orchestrating experiences or creating scenarios where our children are always successful confidence is not built through successes because you remember we've talked in our previous stage we've talked about you know having initiative to do things but when they fail they don't have guilt associated with that they just see it as a as something that they've tried that hasn't worked so don't be fooled into thinking that this particular stage is not going to work because it's not going to work because it's not is about our children developing self-confidence because they're getting everything right it isn't self-confidence comes from understanding that they have competencies understanding that they have autonomy that they can act on themselves understanding that the world that they live in is a trustworthy one and that they have purpose and developing that self-confidence through their experiences because all we don't develop self-confidence we don't develop competence we develop it experientially we have to be in it to win it so it's understanding why those particular years are so important in that sense of self because what then happens as we then begin to as our children then transition into their secondary schools and move into their senior schools that's where they move on to another level in terms of their identity against others but it's giving them that that groundwork and that really super important foundational piece around that confidence so if our children navigate that conflict between industry and inferiority the strength that they come away with is competence and that's you know fundamentally what self-confidence is hinged on is that i have competence and i have capabilities might not always get it right and i'm ready to have a go but inherently within me i am a competent and capable individual. And now we're going to take a quick pause for a word from our sponsors. Adolescence, which is roughly 12 to 18 years, will resonate with so many of you who have got children who have recently transitioned into senior school or that you are navigating and negotiating those particular teen years. Because the conflict that is happening here is identity versus confusion. So this is where they experiment and develop that sense of identity in the roles. So I often like sort of liken it to this idea that they're almost like trying on different clothes, they're trying on different hats, they're trying on different personalities to see which fits. You know, this is all there. Suddenly they're becoming much more self-aware of who they are and how they sit amongst the dynamic of that bigger social context. Of course, that comes into it in the school years where they're developing confidence. But I think it's particularly marked when they move into adolescence because they move away from what my parents think of me being one of the most important things to what my peers, what my contemporaries, what other people who are the same age as me think of me. And this is often where, as parents, we often sort of pull our hair out in despair. Because our children don't listen to us, maybe, or we say something, our children ignore it, but their friend says exactly the same thing. And suddenly it's the best thing since sliced bread. And that's a natural thing. And there's been lots of research evidence that has looked at putting teens in scans, in MRI scans, and them being over the sort of speakers, them hearing audio of their parents' voices saying something, and then audio of their, of other young people saying things. And we can see big differences in brain activation that basically reinforces and confirms what we long know as parents is that basically our children tune out to what we say, and they tune in to other teens and other, their, you know, their friends, their contemporaries, their, their immediate peers, because this particular age and stage that they're navigating in terms of identifying who they are, is all hinged on my identity and how I am seen by others and how I relate to others and how I, that whole comparison. So the virtue that comes out of this is this notion of fidelity, this notion of being true to who they are. We're developing that sense of self. And of course, we're always learning about who we are and some of that sense of self and becoming us changes as we get older. But if we succeed in that sense of self, we're always learning about who we are. If we successfully navigate, if our children and our young teens successfully navigate this into their early adulthoods at 18, then they come away with a true sense of who they are. It doesn't mean that, and for some young people, that conflict of identity and confusion continues in long past that 18, because they don't, you know, we don't necessarily navigate these at these exact ages. We might still be grappling with some of these conflicts at different ages and stages, but that's why it's such a challenging and difficult time for our, for young people, because they're, they're still developing very strongly this, this huge sense of self. So that's adolescence. And then we move into this notion of early adulthood. So it's again, rough approximations here is sort of 19 to 29. And the conflict here, what, what's transitioning in terms of that sense of self is we're moving away from seeing ourselves and that sense of self being developed within our peers in a school environment often, and that trying on different hats and different clothes in terms of that personality to moving much more broadly into our relationships, moving, not just in terms of the peer relationships, but moving much more now into more intimate relationships beyond that. So our, our relationships are not more romantic relationships. So the challenge that the basic conflict that is having happening here is intimacy versus isolation. And so this is about, am I somebody, we're testing our environment and learning around establishing intimacy. What does that look like? What are the boundaries around that? How do I create and navigate a relationship that is intimate? What does that feel like? What is that kind of reciprocal nature of that intimacy and the relationship with others? And part of that will be romantic relationships, but part of it will be that intimacy and relationship with people that, that have your back. That our children and our young adults can call upon when times are challenging and difficult. And as they navigate this, obviously with each psychosocial stage that our children go through, we're layering, it's like layers of, of the cake you know we layer one step on top of another and as they navigate that intimacy versus isolation they bring with them the intimacy that they've observed in others so it's not just what they're learning experientially from their own experiences but there we observe we're social beings we observe others so it's their understanding what intimacy might look like for different people they're working out how they then take what they've the knowledge that they've acquired and what they've observed to what does intimacy look like for me you know what are the boundaries around that and again when we're looking at it from that 19 to 29 if that stage is successfully navigated then the virtue the strength that comes from that is love because that's that's the understanding isn't it of intimacy and what relationships and connection and vulnerability and sharing really looks like in those relationships and that's kind of the foundational pieces for early adulthood and then we move we've got two more stages here and i'm going to mention these because whilst we might not necessarily instinctively think well Mary Han I don't really need to know beyond 19 to be honest with you or the 19 to 29 years is good for me I think it's helpful to understand the middle age and the old age piece because this is what's going on for you as a parent so being able to understand the basic conflict that you are going through is so helpful for understanding how that might show up in your parenting how that might show up in in your own identity and that transitioning changing aspect of our own identity and how that might show up for us so middle age in Erickson's stages was given an age of between 30 and 64 so most of you are going to be well and truly in this or approaching this so the basic conflict here is generativity versus stagnation so this is where we begin to consider our contribution to society so this is an a stage where in terms of that development of identity is not only how do I see myself as an individual but how do I now see myself as part of a family so for all of you that are listening to this podcast you will have something to do with children so our identity becomes beyond just simply me as a solo parent so that's where we begin to consider our contribution to society so this is but me as part of a family me as part of my community me as part of society and obviously where you are in that 30 to 64 will depend on where you're at in those early middle age stage it's very much within how do I see myself now within my new role as a parent and how does that then filter in terms of my community in terms of that might be my community in terms of where I live geographically it might be my community in terms of my extended community within my workplace but you're going to get a sense of that for those that are nearer my age so you know I'm at 56 with grown-up children it doesn't mean that I changed my sense of identity as part of the family but I'm also now beginning to consider my contribution to society so in that how do I contribute to my family and how does that contribute to my sense of identity but also now how do I see myself in that sense of identity in that broader context as an individual who then is part of that contribution and that's often why we see so many people as they're getting to my age and stage that are reflecting on their lives that are asking themselves questions around is this what I want to be doing am I showing up in a way that I'd really like to this is often where people make big changes and you know if we think about the typical kind of midlife crisis and suddenly someone decides to change their life to pack up their job or sell up their house or move somewhere these sorts of things come from this stage of you know how do we see ourselves and our identity particularly as our children grow up for those of you who might be listening you might have children in senior schools or secondary schools or beginning to start university it changes the dynamic of how you see yourself why it's important that we change the way we see ourselves and how we see ourselves that we talk about this stage for us as parents is that transition that impacts all of us as parents to some extent is that we identify ourselves in one way before we become parents and so often that changes and that changes in a great way but it can also change in a not so great way because we feel we've lost a sense of who we are and we've been engulfed and not necessarily suffocated although i think that that's a word that i would use for for some time there are times when we feel suffocated by this new role as as parent and that doesn't mean that we don't care about our children it doesn't mean that we don't love them it doesn't mean that we don't enjoy that particular aspect but there are times when it does feel like it is overwhelming and overbearing and and there's no space to breathe which is why i wanted to you know touch upon this because it really is for so many a really challenging part of that new stage of when we move away from that identity of who we are in isolation to that identity as part of a family so that's our 30 to 64 and then we've got old age which is 65 onwards and this is the conflict that happens here is integrity versus despair and the you know what we're navigating here is basically we're trying to assess and and it's almost we're at that stage where we're beginning to make try and make sense of our life the life that we've lived the contributions that we've made the lasting the meaning of of life you know it very much is a very reflective stage of life and i think that probably some of eeks in very much into that middle age sense as well but it's this sense of have i conducted myself with an with integrity do i do as i reflect on my life as i look at my experiences and what i've done and the contribution that i've made and the meaning behind my life and what i've done do i believe that there is that there has been integrity or do i despair because i feel that i've not lived as fully as i could have done and i haven't said the things that i wanted to say that i've not done the things that i wanted to say that i've not done the things that i wanted to say that i've wanted to do or that i've not necessarily felt that i've made the contribution that i should have made and when we navigate that the strength that we come away with the virtue with that is wisdom and the reason why i wanted to do that one in particular is that i think that when we consider that important part you know if we take it right back to the stages for our children and then becoming who they are and that's that sense of identity in that sense of self there is so much within our community and within our family and our extended family you know which is our wider community you know our neighborhood as well as those that we necessarily work with where that wisdom could be so well integrated within our family and for our young people that i think and this will be a whole other podcast episode that i will do so do look out for it is how can we integrate the wisdom that comes with age to our young people so that we can integrate that wisdom so there's been some quite a bit of research that has looked at young people who have then maybe lived with older people in in their homes as part of you know they've been unable to get their own rental but they've made a conscious decision to live with someone who's older or where you've got you've integrated communities where young people are living alongside older people is that actually there's so many positives that come from that because the younger people get that wisdom that comes from age and experience where there is no attachment as in i'm your parent and therefore you should be listening to me but actually i can be philosophical and i can talk about my life experiences and what i've learned that is interesting and engaging for the young person but that also works reciprocally for the older person where there is a curiosity and a creativity and an interest in an intrigue in life because they're getting a different lens on the on the world from young people that they're spending time with and i feel that this is an underutilized resource in terms of when it when we think about helping our children develop that real strong sense of identity and self that there's an untapped wisdom within our community now do i i don't know what the solution is to how we can do that other than being active participators as parents of children and actively getting our children involved in their community in the neighborhood so that we get more of that integration and our children managing to spend more time in the company of those and we can do that within our own family in terms of just connecting the grandparents and the great-grandparents if we're fortunate enough to have that available to our children but i do think that that we don't have to have it within our immediate family to feel that same sense of benefit and so that's why i wanted to kind of include those in there now i know that this is a you know it's been quite a intensely deep and meaningful conversation around this but i i wanted to touch on it because i think having that knowledge is so powerful equipping us to be able to understand those different ages and stages and so i will be on i'll be taking those stages and outlining in more detail now that we know that these our children are going through these ages and stages how might we in the five stages that take our children from infancy into adolescence then take those conflicts and the strengths that come from those and best set our children up for success in those so look out for the second part of this episode where i will dive deeper into those and also look out for the link for the 60 minutes with dr mary hann if you would like to join me where we can take these stages and i can unpick and answer how you might then be able to apply them the age and stage that your children are currently at. So I hope that's helpful. If you enjoy listening to the podcast, you know what I'm going to ask you. It literally takes a moment to rate the podcast, give it a rating out of five, and then to write a statement, a sentence, a few words to review the podcast, because that is how all of the different podcast platforms, it helps them use reviews are the way that they then are able to make suggestions to people that they may find this podcast, something that is useful as a resource. So if you could do that, I will be eternally grateful. And it means that we can spread the love. So until next time.
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