Bears Interior Defensive Line outlook for the 2026 offseason

Bears, blog, boys, you know it all, computer, analytic, geeky, [bleep] nerds, Michael Schneider-Thumb, Kavanaugh, the Bear, blog, boys, [bleep] know it all, do it some podcast somewhere. Nobody wants to hear you, geeks, you pencil pushing, [bleep] skinny, jean, rare, [bleep] geeks, you. Coming to you live from our mama's basement, this is the Bears, blog, boys, podcast. I'm Rick Holes, Tom Kavanaugh here with my good buddy and other co-hosts, Michael Schneider. Schneider, it's been a minute since we talked. We haven't talked since the Super Bowl, so obviously the season has wrapped up, but buddy, today we are starting our, basically our off season, talking about the Bears off season, how you feel and how you bit. Good, brother, hope you're doing well at, as well. This is probably my favorite time to talk Bears football. Obviously, in season, it's fun, but the off season talk, I mean, this is how you build the consists of winner. This is what separates front offices and teams from the other. And I think more than ever, this is such a crucial off season for the Bears. There's a lot of maneuvering. And I think this is the most excited, probably I've ever been to dig deep into an off season. A lot of intricate layers to this Bears off season. So I'm super excited to get into it. Yeah, they're definitely in a different and weird spot. Like I, in season's past, since we started this podcast, I've started watching draft prospects around November, 'cause I knew it was like, it's over, right? The season's like far gone. And there has been the total opposite this year. Like I'm playing catch up, I'm trying to watch all these guys. And I just don't have a great grasp of the class yet. I'm still trying to grind through some guys. So I think our draft coverage is gonna be a little different this year, same with you, Sinerwag. We have not, this has not been our attention at all. Like we've been thinking about the season, we've been thinking about the playoffs. And I think it's going to be, honestly, I think better this year that we can be a little bit more intimate with each of these players. We've talked about the selective options at 25. It's not like we're having, like last year, I remember talking to you, Sinerwag, we could have picked so many different players at 10. We really did not know what direction they were gonna go. We figured they were gonna meet a couple players off the board, but after those players, the door was really open. I don't think that's gonna be the case this year. I think it's going to be a pretty selective group based on what the Bears need based on what they do in free agency. So I think we obviously will talk about the whole draft class, but I think the discussions will be lengthier about certain players that fit in what the Bears need. And Sinerwag, it's hard not to watch the Super Bowl and look what Seattle's defense was able to do. They're defensive line. Just being able to take over that game and have the Patriots so spooked that they could bring whatever pressures they wanted to because they knew they could just wreck the game up front. And that's how, that's basically why they kicked that entire game. The Patriots just could not handle them up front. They couldn't pass off the correct blitzes. They couldn't pass off the correct pressures. They couldn't hold up in one-on-ones. I mean, the clips have been going around and will camber really struggling. And obviously you love the Bears' offense and what they were able to do, but when you see a team that's able to just kick, ass and demoralize you in the trenches like that, I feel like that's where we have to start our off season coverage with the interior defensive line. Yeah, I'm with you, man. Yeah, watching that Super Bowl just real quick. It was like, yes, the defensive line, obviously, dominated them, but it just had Drake May so flustered, right? He had to get rid of the ball way quicker than he had to. And then he just threw up some prayers and you've seen the interceptions, but then you've seen the inaccuracies with them, just totally had him so uncomfortable, right? And then they're being exotic with it. You've seen the divine withers who blitzed an inside, beating one of their interior offensive linemen one-on-one and then pressuring and second the quarterback. Like that is just insane stuff. Really, I haven't seen a complete defensive performance from the front and the back level. I can't remember when. I know it's recent C bias. I've seen dominant performances like Aaron Donald and Bob Miller, but I haven't seen a complete defensive game plan and just total domination start to finish from every layer. So that was pretty incredible to see. It was incredible to see. And it was even more incredible, since they rolled like AD by the D line. Like they have like eight different guys that could legitimately win on one-on-ones and they all kind of come on each other. And I'm not saying the bear is going to achieve that this year. I don't know if that's really possible or they could get that, not even star-studded. I guess that effective of a defensive line rotation. But I think they definitely, I mean, it's already been coming out. Brad Bigg said that's going to be their number one priority to get a stronger defensive line. I was looking yesterday, Senator, just kind of Dennis Allen's past as a defensive coordinator and like who is he wanting to be? Like what structurally does he want his defense to be? And from 2021 to 2024, and I probably should have split the season from when Dennis Allen was defensive coordinator in 2024, 'cause I know he was fired in the season. But they were amongst like the lowest teams in Blitz rate, right? They were like, I think anywhere from like 18 to 26 in Blitz rate. Last year they were 12. So I think that was very much a pivot to we cannot be the team we want to be. And we're going to start blitzing to get pressure because this format rush thing isn't working out. And I think that like two Dennis Allen's core, he's going to be wanting to be a four down and go defense. And that's going to start with improving this defensive line, especially on the interior, not only the past rush, but the run defense as well. Because Dennis Allen also allowed two eye coverages. And there's a clip that's been going around Twitter, Mike McDonald saying, if you can defend the run, and this is the whole philosophy of their defense and why they're so good, if you can define the run with two eye safeties, that's some really high powered stuff. The bears can't the front of the run with one eye safety. Like the bears just can't defend the run. Are they struggling to do it all year? I know they had their moments, but and I think that starts right down the middle with their interior defensive line center. If you just look at the grades, look at the statistics against run defense, this is one of the worst interior defensive line groups against the run in the entirely. I mean, that their highest graded run defender on the interior had a 55 grade. A Grady Jarrett 42 run defense grade, Gervind Dexter 42.8, Andrew Billings 37.5. It is just not a very stout group at all. No, and it's rock time. I mean, the writing was on the wall. Like you said, that blitz number, it's something that Dennis Allen never did in his entire coaching career. And then, I mean, you've seen the games right against the 49ers. You've seen the games against the Lions that first half against the Packers. And then, even though the Bears, I think, Dennis Allen was in his bag against the Rams game, but the head coach was so, they had no trust in the defense, and in particular defensive line, I would say that kept going it for fourth and down. We're taking the points, right? Because he had no faith. No, they did have a performance, but you can't rely on that, right? To be sustainable through it and through. So, I mean, those decisions by Ben Johnson think we that aggressive throughout this playoff run. And even it was against the Packers, and he goes for it like on fourth down, like on their 35-gallon, that's crazy. But I think that was just an indictment in what they think of this defense. So yeah, that needs to be the number one center of attention there. 100%. And, you know, when you're looking at the types of players the Bears have and like what Dennis Allen wants, like I don't think this is the offseason, and we're gonna talk about a draft prospect at the end of the show. I don't think this is the offseason where you just load up on big space heaters that can't move. Like that's not who Dennis Allen is typically wanting to be. He wants to have guys that can get up field, getting the back field. So obviously, run defense in general for that type of style is gonna be a little bit more hit or miss. But I don't think there was nearly enough hits. And I think when you look at Grady Jarrett at his best, he was that style of player, right? He was the past rushing first, could win one-on-ones, extremely explosive, extremely athletic. That's just not who he is anymore. He's always been spotty against the run. But if you're not getting those positive plays against the past who offset some of the hit or missness in the run, there's really no reason to leave him out there, right? Like that's kind of his whole calling card. And he's an undersized guy, right? He's not gonna hold up well against double teams. He's not gonna hold up one on one against the run. Gervin Dexter, I think you have seen growth as a past rusher. He does have his moments. You thought he would be a little bit better against the run based on how he was in college, but Senator, I always, my whole evaluation of him was he plays so upright, he plays so high. And I don't know if that's ever going to change. He's a tall guy, right? He's like six six. And you saw it in moments in college against double teams. He's just getting blown right back because he cannot get lower than the double teams. He can't really stick his feet in the ground because he's playing so high. And not only that, it's like such a harmful combination of not only does he play high, but he also has really short arms. So he can't really control blocks, even when he does fire out with good pad level because he has such short arms. So with Gervin Dexter, I think it's the same discussion. Like, is he offsetting the bad run defense? 'Cause the run defense is bad. Like I don't know what else to say at this point. It is bad. Is he offsetting that enough with his patch rushing? I don't think he is. I'm not going into the season, like just rolling with him as the starter. If you can find better out there, we'll talk about the option that they'll have. I think you have to consider upgrading. Yeah, that's, I seen someone tweet a while ago and he is the co-comment of the defensive line for the Bears. Is he solid? Yeah. But is he actually a down to down difference maker? Is he impactful? No, right? He's okay, right? He belongs in the NFL. He's shown flashes. He is a contributor. But I think now that time where us Bears fans need to understand like what's at stake, right? The standards are higher. You're so used to missing on the driver. So used to having just an awful team that you see guys like again, a few years ago, co-comment was a bright spot on a bad team, right? And Dervon Dexter, the past couple of years, is shown flashes of contributing, but how consistent is he? How impactful is he? Now when the standards are like, hey, you're trying to win the NFC North. It's still a bloodbath of the division. You're trying to win playoff game and make it deep run. The Dervon Dexter's other worlds just don't cut it, right? And on that starting lineup. So you got to have a tough conversation. I get you the second round pick. You're probably going to have a little bit of allegiance to him because of that pedigree. But again, you have to, you have to evaluate these guys to where your goal is to make it to a super bowl. So maybe a few years ago, you were just, you know, looking for bright spots in a pile of shit. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry to say that, but now again, with the standards a lot higher, you have to really evaluate these guys individually, would have magnifying glass with the expectations of like, hey, it's, it's when the division make a deep playoff run. No doubt, no doubt about it. It's a different, your different standards for sure. Like there, when you were really building, you had the grace to kind of allow Gerberne Dexter to grow and we all knew, look, the second round picks are obviously high investments. Don't get me wrong. But there's a reason they're going in the second round. Like they're not finished products. They definitely need development in some regards a lot of the time. And Gerberne Dexter, he was like the total developmental guy on real athleticism, like for that size, especially like when it clicked, you saw like an unbelievable size speed athlete for this position. The problem is like the consistency, like everything you just brought up, consistency, football, IQ, all that stuff needed to grow. And we have seen growth. It's just, this is going to be year four now. Do are we really expecting him to become like a top 12 or 15 player in his position? I think that'd be a bit ambitious based on what we've seen so far. There's been growth as a pass rusher specifically. I think you've seen he's had his moments. He can win one on ones. I wouldn't say consistently, but like at a decently, at a decent clip. And that's valuable. But is that just, is he just anything more than like more of a rotational guy or like probably your worst starter on the defensive line? Like that's kind of the question you need to be asking yourself. I think to count on him to kind of anchor the middle of your defense, that's where I think I'm not a sold on. And I think it's the conversations easier because you probably need to replace Grady Jarrett anyway and he'll probably still get another shot at this thing to really grow into this role to really take that next leap to be consistent every down impact player. But I just think that really on the defensive line, we'll talk about the edges on another episode. There's really no one that should be safe based on how bad it was this year. I tweeted out yesterday, Santa because I saw someone tweet that the defensive line shouldn't be priority one based on all the other needs the bear's have. The bears were 25th in pass first grade. They were 27th in pressure pressure rate and they were 30 second in time to pressure. I mean, this was about as bad of a performance across the season as you could possibly get. See, time and that's the the frustrating thing about your bond extra, right? With his size and a let us him. He's supposed to have a high floor as a run defender. Right. He should because of his size as let us as an expose him this he should be able to climb up running lanes. He should have that high motor against the run and be able to kind of seek it out. Right. But you're not getting you're not getting that floor in the run defense with him to allow him to grow as a past pressure. So that's the frustrating thing. At this point, I mean, going into the season, you're hope you were hoping to drive on Dexter was kind of like your primary down to down guy in the interior. You knew great. He Jarrett was kind of like is who he is, but you knew he would probably be better on like your past row situations, right? And he'd be rotated in because he's older, keep him fresh. And he thought maybe get some value there, right? You thought Andrew Billings would be that run climber like he was. He kind of fell off a little bit there. So he's a free agent too. And I doubt he's going to be brought back exactly. So like going into last season, you're kind of counting on Dribb on Dexter to be that like main snap getter that main interior dude. And then the other guys were kind of going to be primarily rotated in. So that's a little bit of disappointing that at this point in his career, you only really feel good about him being a rotation guy. Again, he is very young. He might get a second contract to kind of stick around. I don't know. He'll be on his last year going into this season, but that's the one thing that's got a little bit frustrating about Dribb on Dexter, not a bad player by any means. He is a contributor. I think just you thought a little bit more, but I guess like the main conversation we're having here is we need to put a lot of resources into this position. Still, even though you have a guy you thought, you know, would be a little bit further in his progression. You death. That's that's the way you ended that was perfect. You thought he'd be further along. You thought he'd be a more consistent player. And I think the run defense is just like like aerodynamically how he's built. I think he's just always going to struggle. Like I think he doesn't get moved like I'm one V1 situation. He doesn't get moved up block because he's so big and so strong. Like even if he has bad pad level, you're not like moving him, but on double teams and just his overall impact. Like, can he control the block? Can he to gap? Can he stack shed his guy? I don't know. Like I don't think that's going to be a really like high level part of his game because again, he plays really high and his arms are short. That's just a bad combination. So and I'm looking at some of the stats that are averaged at the tackle. I love the stat for pFF against the run. If you don't believe in their grades, that's one thing. I think this is a great stat because if you think about where interior defense of the line and play on the field, they're right on the line of skirmish, right? So that averaged at the tackle number should be really low if they're doing their job and they're playing the run effectively. The player with the worst averaged at the tackle was Chris Williams, a bear, a rotational defensive lineman, who had a six. So his so six yards, but down the field is what's his average at the target. I'm sorry, averaged at the tackle. Andrew Billings was fifth worst, Brady Jarrett was 14th worst, and then Garvin Dexter was at two. He was a little better, but his number was at 2.8, right? That number should be like below one, and it's at 2.8. That just goes to show you like everyone is allowing run plays to go right by them. And also another thing with Garvin Dexter, his miss tackle number is really high. He's just not been able to finish as a pass rusher or as a run defender. 15.9% miss tackle rate. That is not going to cut it. And that kind of makes sense with how he's built. Again, he's really tall. He leaves his feet. He's on the ground. Like, I think this is just like, might just be who he is. And again, I still think he's going to get another shot this year, but when you're considering what the bearish should be looking for moving forward, I think you can learn from, you can't just draft athletes at this position. You need to draft guys that know what they're doing or maybe quicker to diagnose against the run. If they have limitations, they at least know exactly where to be given the offensive formation. Can they replays out? Is there football like you? I think you can learn from some of the sins that they've made in the past. Yeah. I like that you say that, right? Because I think the one thing that really, what we'll talk about, that's not going to go super deep into it. It's like the combine, right? Like you look at like the senior ball stuff, you look at the combine stuff and a lot of these guys athleticism gets very measured. I'm not saying it's not important or anything, right? But you're going to have a guy like Dr. Vontector insane athlete, combine warrior. Don't get me wrong. You talk about upside, right? If you can coach that guy, let him get the technical aspect of it. You almost strike gold, right? If you can kind of develop that guy, it almost reminds me of the way the packers develop Rishangiri, right? Super raw, super Tracy. I ended up working out. But they had that same mindset with like a Lucas Van Nass and it hadn't worked out, right? So it's so hit or miss. There's so much risk there, but and that's the thing, right? The IQ, the instinct, the technical aspect of it, able to square your feet on a run play and just get penetration on that guy. With the bears, I just noticed like all the way around it. I've noticed this with sweat a lot. I noticed this in an edge episode, but I see him on, he like set the edge, but then he get totally dangled, totally get caught on because his feet were like crossed with each other. And I see no lot with your Von Dexter as well. It was like in those like one on one run play where you had the tackle like their feet aren't where so there's so many technical aspects against the run. run that I noticed with the defensive line just that is not there. 100%. No, no doubt about it. They're definitely like in you and that those are the things you're like hoping to get better because those are the those are the things you can't improve, right? Throughout your career, like you're you're not going to get more athletic. You're not going to get shorter to play lower like you're going to have to improve on the technical aspects of the stuff that you can prepare for. And I think we have seen growth. Like I don't want to just say it's been all bad for a curve and are for a drive on, but like I think he's definitely added some past rush moves to his repertoire and you see some of that on tape. It's just I just think that there's some limitations there and some technical stuff that still has has yet to be cleaned up. And it's like we're approaching your four now and the bears need a difference maker at this position. I'm not saying to get rid of drive on. I'm just saying that to count on him to be that difference maker, I think is maybe where you would be a little bit misguided. I don't know if that's the best bet. The thing also I can't make any excuses for the Grady Jair. I don't know what you were expecting Grady Jair to be at the price that you paid him. Other than like a situational pass rusher, we talked about that center. I his we talked about that when I think I had some time to kind of like digest the signing like if there's they're kind of drafting him to kind of tutor the younger guys and be more of that situational pass rusher, then I kind of see it even though that's a healthy price tag for a third contract defensive lineman. But now he just looks like he's out of gas. Like I don't really know what you're expecting to get out of him. To me, it's not he shouldn't be in the plans at all. I'm not really counting on him to be other than just a rotational piece. If he's starting for this team next year, I think you're in a lot of trouble. And it's frustrating, right? Like you understand like the Ryan Poles era, he definitely prioritized it. Good dudes. I and off the field locker rooms. And I'm not saying that's not important, right? When you're paying a guy $17 million and he's on the wrong side of age 30. It makes it you got to be a lot more sure that he is very good. He was coming off an injury Falcons. I think at the time I had a very bad defensive line. And no issues letting him go say what you want about Ryan pace and Terry final. I think that was the name of the GM. I thought they were pretty good at evaluating defensive line in their career. So to let him go, I do think that said a lot. But we we still paid it. And I think we paid him for the wrong reasons. And I hope that's maybe a lesson learned. The issue with that is the contract not pretty. The way it was structured, I think they took a low cap hit this past year. So the capits are really high next year. A lot of guaranteed money there, not much flexibility to get out of it. So you're stuck with that contract for next year. And how we mentioned in a in a show, you're a little bit disappointed in Dervon Dexter because you still have a lot of resources to throw at the position. Right. But then you're also, you know, paying a guy almost $20 million against the cap. And you still have to throw a lot of resources at it. That alone is just very, very frustrating because like you said, we need different makers. We need guys to be need got to be elite somewhere, right? You're good somewhere. If it's stopping the run or, you know, past rushing, if you have to lose a little bit on either end of it, you get the production on the other side. You could live with that, right? You could work around that. We're not getting it in any way. So again, it's frustrating that there is a lot of investments into this defense and tackle group, but it's still a position group that we're going to have to throw a lot of resources at that to fix. Yep. And we'll talk about kind of the different options. We can talk about those now. Snyder, I'm just looking at the different contracts given among the league and seeing if there's anybody worth trading for. And I know Jeffrey Simmons has been a pretty popular name that people throw out. I just think if he would have been, if he, the Colt or the Titans were interested in trading him, they probably would have traded him, right? I don't think they are. They have like $118 million in cap space. They're not in that dire of a situation to where like they're just totally rebuilding all the time. I think they had announced they want to keep Jeffrey Simmons. I just don't think that's really realistic. That would be awesome if you could figure out a way to trade for him. But I just don't really see that a guy possibly, I think, could be available based on what they want to do this year. They're in a pretty tricky, tricky spot. He's older, but the forest buckner, you know, he is a pretty flexible contract to move. And the Colt are in a pretty weird situation where they have to pay Daniel Jones. He's a free agent. What are they going to do there? Alpheir's a guy that really broke out for them. He's also a free agent. And then I think they're also losing the right tackle. So maybe that's a situation where if you want to just see what that would cost you. If they're trying to dump his salary, could you get him for a chief amount of draft conversation? He'll be a lot on your cap, probably. I'm looking at his average per year. Colts. He's a 23 probably a 23 million dollar cap that so that's not like the most cheap option. But it is an option. He's still playing some good ball. So I don't know. There's not a really whole lot of obvious trade candidates in terms of improving this position. I personally like going the trade route. I know a lot of people don't like losing capital, but if you could pay a little bit extra for a guy like the forest buckner, you could probably get the Colts to eat a big chunk of that salary cap. And then he comes. It's like when the bears, I know it was a little bit different caliber player, but when the bears traded away, Robert Quinn to the Eagles, the bears took on the entirety of the salary cap. It converted to dead cap and all the Eagles were on the hook for where was the league minimum. So he was on the Eagle salary cap for like $900,000. And that's how the bears maximize the return. I'm not saying pay a second round pick for the forest buckner, but you could get a little bit creative by leveraging that and exploring that way. It's not a bad process to do that. Get a guy who's a sure thing. It's going to make an impact and then you're paying him cap wise, penny on the dollar. Yeah, you might have to give up a little bit more capital than you wanted. But Mike and where the bears are at as a team and where their goals are. That's probably a little bit more valuable to me than a third round pay. If you have to toss in an extra four, I think I do something like that just to get the sure thing, get a difference maker. And you know, you're talking about a third and a four. I could probably live with that. So it's something along the parameters of that. That's why I do like exploring the trade options. You do you create a lot of cap flexibility where you're getting production for almost pennies on the dollar. For sure. You know, it's definitely like I'm sure they're going to call around on guys like I'm I don't doubt that. But I there's not a whole lot of obvious answers in the trade market. I think for the edge market, there'll definitely be more names to talk about in regarding for trades. But like who do you really like feel comfortable? I'm sure the Vikings would love to get out of Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargraves contracts. Like do you want to trade for either one of those guys? Probably not. Like I think those guys probably have a better chance of just hitting the market. And if you want to go them as a rotational options, ensure. But in terms of like I don't know, I just don't see it. I don't see a lot of great options here when it comes to finding a stud to trade for. And if you did like want to trade for like a Jeffrey Simmons, let's say for whatever this hypothetical he'd be available. He's he's going to cost you a lot like it's that's not going to just be some easy willy nearly trade. He's one of the best interior defensive linemen in the league. So I mean, I'm thinking like two first plus to get a guy like that. And I don't I don't really know if I'd be in that business. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting to talk about. I'm sure some of these guys will hit the hit the market too. Some of these guys I'm looking at like Kenny Clark will the guy will keep him around. I don't know. He's an interesting option again, is a routine again. The like Kenny Clark, Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, like if those guys do hit the market, they should have been treated like great. He should have been treated where it's like one year, seven. Yeah. Like don't don't like tie yourself to these guys because it can go at any moment. Tom, let me ask you. I don't really talk much about your bond extor, great Jared. When you hear the Ryan polls press conferences and I think even prior to the scene and season, you always talks about flexibility. You always talks about maybe dials in a kick inside. Maybe Shimart Turner is going to kick inside. I personally, I'm never really a fan of that because I think those dudes are too light to be inside. It doesn't solve your run on the fence thing. And I don't know. I just think it almost is like a tweener approach. Right? It's like, you're going to lose something by kicking those guys inside. So I don't ever, I don't really value that as much as like Ryan polls send that. And I don't, I hope that's not the plan that like, Hey guy, like, you know, Dio was hurt. We didn't get to use his flexibility and you didn't get to see that. I don't want to be sold on that, right? And I get some alternatives coming back from a ACL. I don't want to be sold on Shimart. Oh, it was sure. My turn is going to be the savior. I don't think we are, but I just, I don't value that. And I don't, I don't entertain that conversation. Maybe it's some dude, but you hear that a lot kind of floating around. I think it's so over. Honestly, I think it's so right because yeah, guys can do that. But is that where you want to play? Is that what they're at their best? Like the day old conversation drove me crazy because I like he did play a lot of the interior. Did he do anything on the interior? No, like he was like just at maybe he was a little better but it wasn't a needle moving decision to hey, he's like a different player on the interior versus playing on the edge. I'm trying to think of a player that's been like that throughout his career. Clay's Campbell, that's a great example. Okay, when you move him to the interior, he's actually a way better player. Like yeah, just like based on how he's created as a man. Like he's just ginormous, not super explosive as an edge rusher to someone to beat an offense tackle to their outside shoulder. Yeah, sure. Move him to the interior, I'll kick ass. Dale never saw that. I just like didn't think he had the pass rush chops wherever he lined up. I just like didn't think he was a consistently an impact player. So just because he can, doesn't mean you should value that. A lot of guys can, it's whether or not they make a difference. Like do they actually aid your defensive line with that versatility? We're gonna talk about a guy in this draft class. Who I think that's actually very much the case. Like a guy you could basically line up anywhere and he whoops ass. And we'll talk about that guy. But he's actually one, I'm like, okay, I have actually on board. Like you could really build a pass rush package around this guy because he is so versatile. He's showing he can win from basically any alignment. And I'm really excited to talk about him. But yes, I think it's a totally overrated skill. I remember in like 2023, I think that draft class was a full of these guys. Lucas Van Nass, Keon White, like all those guys, like, oh, you could play them on the inside. Well, do they actually do anything on the inside? Is the question you need to be asking yourself? You know what I think is the best example of that. I think he was a top five pick, if I remember correctly, is a Solomon Thomas, right? He is like the perfect example of you were sold on that logic and throughout his career, solid player don't get me wrong. But he's always been a tweener on either position on the edge or inside. So you talk to yourself into something of value just because you had the athletic profile and the size, but you didn't have the film and the dominant aspect on either end there. So, yeah, that's one of the things I just wanted to touch up on, like, that's not going to be the savior, right? That's not a way to me. You have no, you know, a contributor. You have solid depth. No, I don't want to be sold on that. For sure. Most doubly, Senator, all right. Well, let's talk about the free agency and Senator, to be honest, there's not a lot of great options. Like, this is not a good free agency class for the interior defensive line. I think it's very much the class where you're just signing guys to one-year deals that kind of bolster this thing and just get some competent players. Like, if they signed, DJ Reader is PFF's top free agent. He's ranked 20th. I could see, like, that signing kind of makes sense. He's a run defending first type of defensive line. And I know Dennis Allen wants guys to get up the field, but if you just want someone to just kind of make this thing competent, I can see that, right? He's projected for one year, four and a half million. That's exactly the kind of thing, the kind of price range I'm expecting them to be. David Adimata has yet a really good season with the Falcons this past year, which is surprising. He's 33 years old. He's projected for one year, three and a half million. He has history with Dennis Allen in New Orleans. So I could see also that. But again, we talk about these older guys. I'm not giving them a lot of long-term money. This is, that's how I'm treating this free agency class. It is one-year mercenary type deals. You're not finding a future starter, or I guess a starter for the future in this free agent group unless anything changes drastically. Like someone who we didn't expect to get cut gets cut. I just don't think you're searching the waters to find a long-term answer. - Yeah, and that's the thing, right? We talk about who we have in place. Even though we need improvements there, I feel like the improvements in free agency aren't even much better than what we have, right? - Right. - There's like, you don't want to take the same approach and really, you know, put some money in there, even if it's $7 million, $10 million on some of these guys. Did you actually really get any better in the group now, really? - Yeah, it's not a good group. And honestly, I think it's gonna be one that they're gonna have to kind of set, or if they want to really, really improve it, they're gonna have to set their sights in the draft. And I'm not to the level where I wanna be in terms of talking about some of these prospects. We're gonna talk about one who's been a very popular name for the Bears. But I think that's the direction they're gonna have to go. And right now I'm looking at it. Dane Bruegler has nine interior defensive lineman in his top 100. So I mean, that's a decently strong class. There's definitely stronger positions in terms of who he has and look, I'm not saying he's the gospel or anything, but it's a decently strong class. And I'm sure they're gonna have, from the mock drafts that I've seen, they're gonna have a lot of options at 25 specifically if they wanna go that route. And I think it's one they should consider. Just some free agent names I think to keep an eye out. On, I think that Sheldon Rankins for the Texans this past year, he had a nice bounce back year. He has experience with Dennis Allen. He's projected one year, seven and a half million. He's gonna be 32 this year. So again, not the youngest player in the world. John Franklin Myers, he's actually been one of these players, a signer that can play on the edge and is probably better in the interior. He's had some strong seasons. He's coming off kind of a doubt season this year, but he's probably projected for the most money among the group three years, $15 million per year. I don't know if the Bears will be in that market, but someone to kind of keep your eye on, I could see him being fit. I don't want them to keep going after these like tweener guys because they have so many for this following year. But I think those are kind of the names I'm looking at before. I guess maybe the last name is Tim Settle, who's more of an explosive nose tackle. He's a guy who can't get up the field for being the big guy that he is. And I think he cost you very, very minimal dollars. So that's kind of the guys I'm looking at. Again, you're not gonna, I don't think solve the issue with this free agency group. - No, maybe just raising the floor a little bit more, very, very marginally. But yeah, I'm not excited about this free agency class as well. I think you're gonna have to hold some guys do become cap casualties or you get creative in a trade. Like how you did maybe with Joe Tuney, right? Find that guy that I don't think I'm gonna interrupt but find that guy who's okay, yeah, he's a little bit older. Look at a teen that needs to save some cap that's tied against the cap. Maybe you might find someone like that. I mean, that's probably the process that I'd be exploring. - Because even if you draft someone, this is not a position where guys hit the ground running. I mean, if you just look at this past class, we, I think that people are pretty held this last class in high regard. I think that Mason Graham, Kenneth Walker, or not Kenneth Walker, Kenneth Grant, Walter Nolan, all those guys, it was a pretty exciting class. And outside of Walter Nolan who got hurt, I don't think any of these guys came in and dominated. Like I think they all had their issues. I mean, Ken, the grant had a lot of issues. So, I don't think it's a position you're expecting guys to come in right away and dominate. And maybe that can transition to the guys we wanna talk about. Let's start with the Kate and McDonald from Ohio State, who has been an extremely popular selection for the Bears. Senator, do you know anything about Kate and McDonald? Like, where are you at on terms of like who people are mocking to the Bears right now? - You know what time? I am behind on that. I really need to start getting into it, so not much. - So he really, like, he was a starter last year, but he really took on the role of being like the anchor against their further run defense because Tyler Williams left. They changed defensive coordinators. He was really asked to just really be the stalwart of the middle of that defense. He's a true junior. He played the most snaps of his career, this year, 448 snaps. He's listed on PFF's site as 6'3" 326 pounds. But son, he doesn't look like he's got a lot of bad weight on him. For being that big, he looks pretty rocked up. Like, this is a strong ass dude. When I watch him, he is like teach tape, run defense, like stack shed, two-gapping. It's all great. He fires off the ball low. He can control blocks. He can control like just two gaps at a time. He makes plays at the line of scrimmage. He makes plays in the back field. I like him a lot more than I liked Tyler Williams last year because I think his technique is way better and I think he's got longer arms. And you just see that on tape over and over over again. I don't think I've seen a rep where he gets moved off the ball. Even against double teams. He might not control blocks against double teams, but you're not moving this guy because he plays so low. He fires out into gaps. And you also see at times-- I don't know if he's the best athlete in the world, but you do see at times that he can get the back field and make some plays behind the line of scrimmage. He works a club swim move that's pretty nice. I wish it was more consistent. So I think if the Bears outset was kind of like, I don't think it's the correct one. But if the Bears outset was like the 49ers last year, hey, we're just going to get really stout up front. And you're not going to push us around. And we're just going to drive a bunch of great run defenders. He's an option. He's probably the option at 25 because you're not pushing this guy around. He is that good of a run defender. He is as teach shape of technique I've seen in a very, very long time. The problem is he's been basically-- underwhelming to like not exist in as a fast-resurer throughout his career. I'm curious to see how he tests. Maybe he'll show more than I see on tape in terms of athleticism. That's the thing with him. I don't know if he just doesn't know how to rush the faster or if he's just not the athlete because even when yeah this guy profiles more as more of a nose tackle, more as an early down player, you expect those guys to have like a bit of a bull rush because they're so strong that they can just overpower people and push them in the laps of quarterbacks. I don't even see that to be honest. He looks pretty clueless as a fast-resurer. Like this is not a lot of plan to his game and I definitely have some questions if that will ever come along. If if he shows he's more athletic at the combine and Ohio State didn't allow him to just pin his ears back, which is very possible. They could be like you're the middle you're going to be like the fire hydrant of the defense that you're going to read, react, really hold up against the run, play the run first. That could very well be the case and they didn't let him off the leash. So if he shows that at the combine, but from what I'm seeing right now, I don't see another worldly athlete and I just like whenever I'm considering someone in the first round, like I wish you had that potential at the very least let alone he does not have the production have that potential to be more of a three-down player. But then again you could tell yourself hey he has such a high floor as a run defender. You such a technician. You feel good. It's not just a projection right. It's not like the Gervan Dexter like a super athletic. He'll have a high floor. This guy actually has the instincts IQ and the technique. Yeah, I'm kind of just quickly looking over him kind of doing some of pff advanced at scouting right there. The password is not existing it's a 4% password wouldn't right there. But hopefully you know it is just the scheme and what he was asked to do and maybe there is some on tap potential there. But again, what the bears need is they need somewhere to be in any need defensive tackle right. It's going to be very hard to find the complete package pass rush and run to funder at 25 in the draft that typically never have as a talented ask but if you could find an elite run to funder at 25 that's extremely valuable to where the bears are at as a team. You need to bf up that defensive line so you can kind of get away and do things more defensively, schematically let Dennis Allen do what actually wants to do. So when you just drive this player that can kind of come in and just be that technician, be that stout run defender, I'm game with that because I think it's a safe pick and it's a high floor pick and maybe there is some on tap potential there. Yeah, I think the comments are going to be big for him. Like, can you show that he has at least the tools to get more out of him as a pressure? There was him. He had a nice club swim move as a pass rusher where I was like, okay, like if he can if he can figure this out and really like attack the half of offensive lineman, that's the thing. He kind of just rushes down the middle with no plan and I don't know if that's in like an athletic thing or if he just doesn't know what he's doing. Which I'd be shocked at Ohio State if he didn't know what he's doing. He could just be being asked that like hold the integrity of the pocket. Just rush down the middle. That very well could be the case. I'm not I don't know enough to to have an opinion one way or the other, but I didn't see a super athletic guy on tape and I just never love batting on the type of production he's had as a pass rusher to expect that to be all of a sudden different and we got think that tends to be a bad bet more times than not. But at the same time, we talk about like beefing up your defensive line and just like having stouter guys not only does he just like raise the floor of your run defense unit, he's like an actively dominant run defender like he's he's pushing guys and the back of the line of scrimmage and he's making place center this year only 3.3 percent missed tackle rate. He finished his place like he he's not just holding his gap. He's actively finding the ball making tackles. He's as good as it gets like I really really was impressed by his run defense tape and it's not typically what Dennis Allen has gone for in the past. We saw it last year. They went for Grady Jared, Schemaard Turner, he likes undersized explosive guys. So again, I don't know if he'll really be on the Bears radar from that regard. But again, they could just be like, nope, we're putting a line in the sand. We're getting better upfront to at least stop the run. I could definitely see him being an option if that's the case they want to go. Yeah, I like what I'm hearing totally game for it. I just think there's there needs to be a different mindset, right? Maybe in a couple years past, maybe you need to take a swing on a drivondex there with the more upside of that nature. Now you need that high floor guy and with the beardom particular, you know, struggling so much on the interior. I think this feels a major need and it's it's a valuable need, right? You're going to be able to do a lot more. You're not going to get, you know, ran down your throw. You're not going to see, you know, Josh Jacobs kind of runs one for, you know, six, seven yards per game. That that stuff is valuable when it comes late into the season into the playoff game. I know from a from a team building aspect on the beginning part, you know, those aren't the guys that you're trying to chase, right? Now those guys will make that impact late into the season when you're getting against these better running schemes getting the against these better running back. You can't make deep playoff runs if you're allowing six, seven yards per rush. And when it comes to defensive line, you mentioned all the stats are defensive tackle all the stats. They're really bad against the run defense. I mean, in your averaging even five, six, seven yards per carry. I guess it just you're in so many second and shorts. You're in so many neutral spots and it makes it harder to play defense. If you guys, you have a guy who can clog that up on those early downs, not second and times and everything like that, that's what it brings. So at this level of where the bears are at as a team, I'm totally bringing up a player like this that raises that floor like that. Most definitely. I think you, yeah, you hit on a lot of important things there. And we just at the beginning of the show, we talked about like teams wanted to defend the run with light boxes. They don't want to dedicate more bodies. It allows you to do a lot more back on the back end if you're able to do that. And the bears can't, right? And so if that's the, if they feel like McDonald is the guy that's going to unlock that for them, then I'd definitely see that that like being a really good reason to make that pick. If he said if he tests like way better than I'm expecting at the Carmine or just like way more than I saw on tape, I think it's a very real outcome that he could be one of these better athletes that just like wasn't able to show that I'm 100% gain for this pick. And I'd be a lot more about it. Let's transition to the next guy though because he is so fascinating. It's not a defensive lineman or interior defensive lineman. It's an edgerusher, but he does play a little bit of everything. That is Miami's a keen Macedon or slider. It is actually insane when you watch Miami's defensive lineman coach by Jason Taylor Hall of Famer. How polished these guys are. There is just no wasted movement in the get off. They got past rush moves on past rush moves. They tie their feet to their rush. That is like an NFL next level thing where they're getting offensive tackles off kilter with their leg movement and like Euro stepping, jab stepping to open them up and get them where they want to go. And then they got the past rush moves with their hands on top of it to really aid them to clean their wins. I mean, when you watch Macedora, he is like one of the most polished rushers I've ever watched. He's got moves on moves, counters, all of it. He's got a full bag of moves that he can work against basically adding one guards, tackles. That's the thing that's really great about him. He almost looks at his bass when he's kicking inside as a sub-brusher guards can't hang with them. They just can't hang with them. He's so good at not allowing guys to get clean shots on his chest. He's always so low to the ground. He's reducing that surface area and he's always moving around. So it just feels like he's always a moving target for guards who can't move as well. And he's just woping him. He's clean wins right up the middle. A guy I think could really provide some past restuse especially as a sub-brusher. There's some concerns with him no doubt. The biggest one you got to mention, he's going to be 25 years old. He had his best season this past year as a six-year senior. But I think what he's my concerns with him a little is this is not Tyree Wilson. This is not a guy who's just getting by with his athleticism. He's actually winning with real deal moves. In the highest lever situations, like when it was fourth quarter we need a bucket. This dude was making a habit. He's coming consistently in those situations. He's just winning over and over and over and over again. Yeah, that's interesting, my man. Not everyone likes the older guy. It's actually when you broke in, but man, when you're being cultured by face and tailor and you're showing that much in your arsenal as a technician, your instincts and everything. I mean, I'm looking at the past first win percent, 20 percent. The run defense grade aligned with the past defense grade. It looks like you could get maybe a steal because of the age and get that instant production. Those guys do time to age like fine wine. So it might work out. That's an interesting one. So the thing is too. The bears are not in full rebuild mode. They're not in full rebuild mode. They're in full mode. I don't think the conversation isn't like the bears of two years ago. Do you want to drive a 25-year-old? You're probably not going to give him a second time. Now, you're not hope, you're not expecting to give him a second. I mean, 29 as a psyched contract player, that's a hard pill to swallow. So I don't think they're in that situation though. You're in a situation where you're looking for guys that can help you right away. The message or to me is a guy that can help you right away because he knows exactly what he's doing. Now, he's not without his flaws beyond just the age. I don't think he's a great athlete. I think he's pretty a marginal athlete. If he tests well enough, I'm on board because he's shown he can win in other ways. There's definitely thresholds he needs to hit. But I don't think he's the greatest athlete. I think I worry about him as a true edge rusher because he's just doesn't seem very explosive to consistently threaten tackles to the outside edge. And then also, I don't think he has a really great speed to power rush. But he does a really good job at hiding those things with how technical he is. And also, two-sided, this guy's get off, no way, he's in movement. He's anticipating the snap count. He's giving himself edges because of his football IQ. And again, that's a player I think that can help the Bears ride away. And he just gives something the Bears don't have quick wins. That's what he does. He wins quick, he deconstructs blocks. That's where he is as a player. And I think he's someone you can legitimately consider at 25 for all these reasons. I like that. I think Tom, my biggest takeaway here, I think we figured out how we. You got a fixed defensive line. I feel like we're going to talk about edges next. I like the edge free agency class. I'm not going to get into that, but I would love to find a way to sign one of those guys off the street where you're not paying any capital. We're going to have to draft an offensive tackle in round one or two. And I think you're going to have to maybe trade for a guy, maybe using that like, Jotuny method, like, it'd be a three, maybe a four. And I think you could find a way to add three bodies in there. Your restructure, sweat, you keep book or as a rotation piece. And I think you could figure it out in one off season with that method there. Yeah, and most out, no, definitely. And I think, I'm telling you right now, I think McDonald, Meso, these are going to be named June and keep hearing. Along with the different avenues we discussed about adding talent to this room, those are going to be guys that you're going to keep hearing because I think that they definitely make sense for what the bears need. But it's going to be interesting to see how they approach it. Remember two center, Ryan pulls X fast. Those interior offensive line trades happen before free agency even open. So I'm expecting some major shakeups soon. Like in the beginning of March or even late February, I'm expecting those moves to happen. Yeah, I'm game time. I think this unit can get overhauled. I know a lot of people say we are very tight against the cap, but there is a lot of maneuvering to do. And I think you can still do it in a responsible way. We'll get into that in a different episode. Other than that time, I got a jet unless you had anything else. No, that's all I had. We will be back to top more off season, y'all. So until we meet again, keep it real. Fair down. You're down. [BLANK_AUDIO]