Bea Miller | Child Stardom on The X Factor, Depression and the Wild Stories Behind Her Songs

I also have been in sessions in real life where it's like me and like two or three straight men and like I say something And no one really reacts and then one of them repeats it and everyone's like that's a great idea I have never worked with those people ever again because I'm like you Are profiting off of like pop girls and you hate women and yet the bulk of pop music Being sung by women is being made by straight men. Yeah, they don't even like this Artful is like of course a straight man will always have the audacity in like every industry I was like oh my god, I don't know. I guess just transfers just like her twink then I found out that day that Send my precious weapons was your band, and I was like well now you're cool. I think that you might actually like have some potential here What makes you feel Hot and without flinching You go oh my god, you know what makes me feel so hot that I'm ugly in LA I would say like averagely. I'm a six But if I have like my face beat and like my tits out like I'm maybe a seven the anger drag a 27 year-old artist being described as making a comeback Morgan You're hateful Morgan. I'm gonna get at least I'm really excited for people to like know that I am still first more alive and second of all still I'm some semblance of a career. I hope that we disturb a few people. Yeah, let's rock the roll baby Hello kings and queens and everyone in between I am pop songwriter Justin Tranta and this is my podcast with my friend Morgan Stewart who's off camera It is called un famous and we break down the art of collaboration and today is a very special episode because one of my favorite collaborators in the entire world is here and She's the funniest person alive not to put you in the spot um, but One of the most special songwriters writing songs right now one of the most special singers singing for the last decade or more Because her parents forced her into child star them way too young Ladies gentlemen, everyone in between be Miller Hey, oh hey girl. Well, I just think there's a lot of pressure on me to be funny. It's gonna happen. Fuck. I don't know I really don't think I can do it like if I feel like I have to do it on command. Yeah, can't wait Let me just move this a little closer to you while I'm leaning back in this chair this way too big for me I'm just like what like I just feel like this is the way that I want to sit in it But I just it's probably looking I mean are you over five feet tall? Yeah, well barely five one. How do you proud of you? How do you like my shirt? I love your shirt I feel like you need to tell the people like what's going on here Well, I think you need to tell people like the idea though that you're so obsessed with me that you made this near free time Just like wait you made that shirt. I actually I did make this shirt I am bees. No one fan. No They just do for the podcast moving forward. You should make a shirt of every guest every guest and just that's your outfit Well, what's funny is I was kind of started to like wear little fashion items Intribute to every guest. So like when Linda Perry was here. I wore a huge fucking hat Um, and I was like, what am I going to wear? Intribute to be like should I like dress like a gutter slut to And I was like just put on a fuck kind of makeup last night and then just wipe it off this morning all over your face And I don't need to go gutter. I have a picture of her face Mm-hmm in my closet. Do you want to tell people what this is when when when you took this? Um, yeah, so I Clearly, I think that like this doesn't even require me saying anything But like I had really no friends at this time. And so I think that's clear And like my only friend was my tumbler blog that I really really gave a shit about in a big way Yeah, I don't know if we've ever sat down and scrolled through it together But it's like me at like 14 like re blogging stuff that's like sex and drugs and fucking suicide like that was my That was my aesthetic. That was and you never had sex I've never had sex had not done a drug I had considered suicide but like that's the point and I was like that's a different podcast And I was just like, okay, like perfect. This is my this is like my life And this is what I'm doing and so I'm going to start taking selfies that are really like I would put them on my blog You know, and so this email I was like wow I would be re blogging this in a big way like this people are gonna love this do you remember how many reblogs has got? I think I never on a personal post of mine got more than like 48 right So I wasn't doing cranking I wasn't going big wasn't making it big I actually feel like that's just like the first and like a long series of things in my career I'm like this is gonna happen. I'm just like 12 people care Thank you so much for those 12 people though Shout out, but yeah, I Took that and I was like, okay, like this is really capturing like how much I hate my life, but I'm still like a gene cool And you're 14 here 15 14 14 was the blue hair and um now since this podcast is about collaboration So this is 14 We our first session was when you were 16 I think probably but I like can't remember my life beyond like five years ago Right like my brain is just like do you remember our first session? I do remember our first session. I don't remember I don't know was that the day that uh Like we're making repercussions without like later. That was that was repercussions repercussions day Um, and I what were your thoughts? What are your thoughts about? I you're you're now most trusted collaborator What were your thoughts on day one? Like I'm your biggest number one fan of stress with everything that you do The day that we met I um was informed by my label that I was doing a session with Julia Michaels and Justin Tractor And I was like oh jeez like Julia Michaels like she's so that girl right now like she's writing all the hits and like I don't know. I guess Justin Tractor is just like her twink like I don't really know like I don't know like who that is And I just feel like is he just here for like moral support um because I was like okay like I feel like I'm emotional like I'm a teenager like Julia Michaels trying to like help me like hone in that emotion And like we're being emotional together and like maybe we just like need someone here to like babysit essentially And that's who I thought that the Justin Tractor was in that moment But then I found out that day um That Send my precious weapons was your band and I was like well now you're cool And now I actually no longer think that your Julia's and my babysitter I think that you might actually like have some potential here And that's what I really started to believe in you and what's what's so funny about that Which I don't know if I've ever said it this this specifically to you is like that was my biggest fear even though I co-wrote all of Julia's early hits that she wrote for other people and for herself Um, I was like I think Because I very proudly let her lead the way as as the alpha in the room I'm like I bet a lot of people think I'm just like her gay babysitter. Yeah, and then you literally just told me that yeah I was like 16 years old and like it's fucking even is this person like I really don't care like but then Julia mentioned Send me precious weapons song aviation high. Oh, we could do this thing like you did in the verse of aviation high And you like your jaw dropped and you're like wait you wrote aviation high I said no, no, I wrote it and sang it And you were like she was living for that like she was like And I was like are we you know That was me okay, so then what was it in That you went and so not only aviation high What was it after that because a lot of people come to this podcast trying to learn about like how do you know when a collaborator's right when is it the right we should keep doing this Do you remember a moment when we were writing together where you were like oh shit, this is awesome I honestly like a specific moment not as much as just when we were writing in your old house um And it was empty it was completely empty it was just like a really big foyer and like few furniture pieces and then it was just like let's just skip this and go right up stairs for this tiny bedroom I want to say it was like probably the smallest one at the house. Yeah, and it was just like a couch and some studio gear And that's when we were writing a lot with um like Sabbath and Kennedy and we were just like shoved in that little room and I just feel like I had more fun writing yeah There that I had ever had like in a lot of my like music career before that like I think um because my Mom like kind of put me into this industry. I didn't really feel like I had a super big Lust for it. I've got love for it. I like didn't care like I was just kind of like oh I'm doing this and like I want to succeed I guess because like I have bills to pay and like it would be kind of cool if like everyone who called me bitrist in school Like what's like oh, but now she's a success But I mean bitrists it's called maybe a band name. No, it's actually it's really good. It's a really good project So I was actually like for next album. Just call it bitrist I was like wow, that's so much better than Beatrice, but that's actually really clever and we did write a song called that bit That bitch. Yeah, exactly. So like I feel like those bullies back then were like breeding my future successes when I wrote a song about like sucking my clit um like thank you guys um But that's actual lyric. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did that and you were what 19. Yeah. Yeah, but that was written in that house I mean I just like I didn't really care about songwriting too much before that before We started really working together After I realized that you weren't just babysitting Julia Michaels and me, like, not getting too carried away. (laughing) I think that before that, I had just been like, oh, I want to write songs because I'm a teenager and I, like, have a big ego and I want to be, like, more involved in the creative process, not because I actually felt like a huge passion. For being a songwriter or, like, I maybe did, but I didn't, I wasn't necessarily that great at it or I didn't really believe in my ability to do it as much as I believed in my desire to prove to people that I could do it almost, if that makes sense. And then when we were writing together, I just, like, I was having so much fun that I kind of didn't realize that we were writing a song. And then we wrote great fucking songs. And I was like, oh, I've never all these sessions that I've done before, there have been good ones here and there, of course, but a lot of times, I feel like I just want to, like, literally rip every single hair individually off of my scalp because I was so fucking bored and pulling teeth. It's like, okay, and people are like, okay, what if we, like, the metaphor of this song is this and we're going to write a smash today? I'm like, I actually, like, I just couldn't do it. It was just like a lot of sessions that I felt like every moment that passed by. I was like, oh, I'm doing a job. And then people would always be like, oh, we're in music, so we never feel like we work. And I was like, I feel like I'm working right now. I feel so awful. And then when we wrote, I was like, oh, this is what people are talking about. And you were so young. Like, you were an ex-factor at How Old? 13. 13. Pride and Britney Spears arms. I hemorrhaged my vocal cord. Almost ended my career before it started. And then Dr. Miserie, wonderful, brilliant genius, sweetheart, Dr. Save My Voice, an ex-factor. Like, gave me a shot of adrenaline in my ass and said, you must go forth and do your save me song. Because it's a TV show, right? So like, they couldn't just like, eliminate me by being like, announcement, like, she's got to go home 'cause she woke up today and like, can't speak and her shit is fucked. They had to make it seem like real. And so I had to like go out there and sing with a vocal cord that was bleeding at 13. So that was-- You did look fierce, though. I did look fierce. And I was crying. And I was like, and I was so funny as I was like, oh, like, I had watched like the previous season. And I was like, oh, the one thing I'm not going to do is cry. Like, they're not going to get me down. Like, I'm not going to be the girl who's like sobbing when she's voted off. And then I was definitely her sobbing so much so that Britney Spears herself was like, I have to consult this trial. Like, it's just like a whole talk. Like, what? And I think it was just like kind of fierce because I was actually crying 'cause I was in like an unbelievable amount of pain. But everyone was like, oh, like, she's just like a little baby who's like going home. And I was like, you know, we'll just leave it with that story one. What blows my mind is someone who knows deeply what a great songwriter and singer you are that it kind of you were, like you already mentioned, forced into it. Yeah. Now, we're really, really close. I'm going to give you a lot of leading questions because I already know some of these great stories. So here's a leading question. OK. So you were, you're one of your mom specifically was like the super stage mom. Yes. And she was trying to make you an actress. Yes. And you were in Toy Story 3. Yes, I was. Which is, like, so sick. So legendary. Like, that's so sick. It's what a cool footnote in your Wikipedia. I know, like, sometimes I truly, like, I loved it. Like, when I'm having like a hard time, I just, like, love to put on like a Pixar movie. Like, I just feel like-- Specifically, Toy Story 3 to hear yourself. And I just, like, that, like, really ups me. I'm like, oh, like, so young and like already so beaten down by the world, like, poor girl. No, I just, like, love to watch like a Pixar movie for, like, a picking up here and there. And Toy Story, I feel like I go back to a lot because one and two were, like, I grew up with that. I mean, three is a masterpiece. And three is a masterpiece. I know you don't want to say it because you're in it, but it's very good. It's because of me, too. Like, my 10 lines really took it, like, from being good to being great. Yeah, we need a, like, an Oscar now. They need to apologize. Yeah, so instead of sending me, like, a 2-cent check every, like, three years, they just need to give me an Oscar. But I will, like, watch the first two. And then I get to the third and I want to, like, watch the third one now. But, like, I'm just going to have to, like, sit here and hear, like, a few seconds of myself as a child, which is just always like, it's honestly fun. It's, like, it's, like, a little bit, like, cringe. But it also was kind of like, oh, fuck, like, I really did do that. And I can't, like, remember that time in my life. So hearing my vocal stylings and, like, wow. I, like, really was doing it at that time. When did singing come into play? When did the stage mom realize there was a singer in there? Um, I think that, like, a lot of people, like, I just love to sing as a kid, like, just hear in there along my own time. Like, I just feel like a lot of kids, like, you, you just sing around the house, you sing with your friends, you sing along to Hanwon Tan on the TV. Like, that's what you're doing. Yep. I'm just being mildly. Yeah. Like, of course. And I think, I was doing that a lot. I randomly, like, auditioned to sing for, um, I sang America the Beautiful before a Venus and Serena Williams tennis match. What the fuck? You're a lie. I don't fucking know how old are you? So random. I think I was 10. Does this footage exist? I think so. I think if we did enough digging, we could find it. We have to make a social cut down. We cut. I think that that must exist somewhere. I haven't looked for it in a really long time. Do you slay? I kind of think so. I think you could tell that I was shaking like this, but I might have slayed. It was really just like, I didn't really know what I was auditioning for. I don't think when I did it. And then they're like, you're going to go in front of Venus and Serena Williams. They're sisters. And they're both amazing. And it's going to be spotlights on you right before it's on them. And I was like, oh, great. But I think that that was, like, I hadn't really done much public singing. And I just did that. And I was like, OK, that was, like, weird and strange. And then beyond that, like, I think that, like, before that happened, I don't know that, like, either of my parents necessarily realize that I was like, oh, I couldn't actually carry a tune. I mean, like, more of, like, a real way. And so I'm just like a fun way, I guess. And then I was singing a cover, like, an Adele song cover for my YouTube channel, and I was, like, 12 in my room. And I heard my mom crying outside my door when I finished. And I was like, you're fucking weird. Like, why are you just sitting outside the door, listening to me and just, I didn't know you could sing like that. And it was like a whole thing. And then we, like, loved her and I to watch mostly actually so you think you can dance together. That was our shit. Like, I loved that. Like, I was obsessed. But we also, of course, watched American Idol together. And X-Factor was in its first season that year that I was 12. And we realized that American Idol needed to be 15 to audition. But X-Factor, you could be 13. And I was about to turn 13. So she was like getting the car, we're driving to Rhode Island. And we're sending L-Mine for eight hours in the rain. So you can audition. That's what I did. Yeah. Wow. Do you get into the industry so young, whether it's writing sessions, whether it's touring, whatever it is? Is there something that you, to focus on the positive? Because obviously it's kind of not great that minors are put into a very serious business. But to try to focus on the positive, is there something that you learned from being in this so young that you think you still bring with you now? I mean, I think I just learned that, like, I just had to learn to have a tough skin. I feel like, ultimately, I think probably a lot of people would tell you that, but a lot of people probably figured that out when they were in their later teens, or an earlier even to mid-20s, earlier on in their careers, whereas I was figuring this out as I was already a really emotional child. And I was being put in front of all of these eyes that I feel otherwise, obviously, would not have been on me. And it's weird when you're looking to outside sources for an example, because you're a child, but then you're being told you'd be on your best behavior, because other kids are looking at you. For their example, it's like very weird. It's like I was being informed that I had to be an example for my fans who were my age or younger than me when I was only 15. And so I was desperately looking for someone that I could model my own behavior after, or take inspiration from myself, while also having to recognize that I need to be potentially that person for somebody else. And I was, of course, receiving a lot of criticism for some of the things that I was doing. And you already received a lot of criticism when you're that age from just, like, probably peers. I think kids are really mean to each other. But on top of that, people, like, kids are being mean to me on, like, very public platforms. And adults are being mean to me too. But it's so fucking weird. I'm like, you're going to be, like, an online troll as, like, a 40-year-old man for, like, a 13-year-old girl. Oh, thank you. Like, are you actually fucking crazy? Yeah. Honestly, it's sad. I'm like, that is so sad that this is what your life is. But it's also, like, it was so fucked up for me. I was like, what the fuck? How do you-- How do you process that? That, like, you see a horrible comment. You click on it, and it's fucking Grandpa Jenkins. Like, how do you-- They were going to my meet and greet sometimes too. No. Grandpa Jenkins would be, like, at my meet and greet. What would he say? I mean, I'm just getting filled up at my meet and greet by Grandpa Jenkins when I was, like, 17 years old. Like, it was just really, like, I just really think that, And like, but then it's like, okay, well, I'm a job. So like you just take like a quick like 10 minute break from getting field up as a child and then you go right back to it. Oh my God, so good to meet you girl. Welcome to my meet and greet after I literally was just crying because I got felt up by a 50 year old man. So I just think like that's so insane. - It's really bad. - Okay now, as I was saying I had to learn to have a tough skin really early. And so I think that helps my career now because I was like already dealing with so much shit that comes with like being a child and like my, my, I'm a child of divorce. Like my parents were separating even though they were never allowed to be legally married because gay marriage was not legal at the time. - Speak on it. - Speak on it. - Ew. And I was like dealing with like just like hormones and puberty and also like bullies in my school, trolls on the internet. And I think it was a really miserable time for me to be alive. You could tell on my Tumblr, like I was saying earlier. I'm just like re-blogging like death, kill, drugs, partying. I literally had no friends. - There was nobody in no party to be crazy. - And all of my child start 'em. Start 'em. Nobody has ever offered me any drugs. - Do I just not look cool enough for like some like grown person to be like at some like industry party to be like, hey, wanna go do cocaine? - Right. - Like why not me? - Like I just so, you know, I'm just feeling like, I don't really know like what vibe I was giving off that like nobody was asking me. But I feel like-- - Maybe because you're so short, they're like, she's like, she can't handle us. - She can't handle us. - No, she can't. - She really can't handle us. - Wait, I need it back for one second. So when you, someone is really, really creepy to you at a meet and greet, and a very old adult. - Yes. - And then you go, okay, I'm gonna take, I need to take a 10 minute break. Is someone saying to you, you need to get back out there and finish this, or are you saying to yourself, I have fans waiting, how do you get through that? - There's, I mean, it's a little bit of both. It's like, obviously, I, like this actually hasn't happened to me in a while, which is disturbing. It happened to me more when I was a minor, which just really goes to show you, like how predatory people really can be. But it was a little bit of like, okay, it's not my fans fault who are young girls like me who actually love my music and relate to me. And like we're bonding, and like this is like for them. It's not their fault that like, you can't really screen who buys a meet and greet ticket, you know? It's like, how would some kind of algorithm, like you can't like discriminate and be like, oh, because you're above a certain age, or you're a certain gender, whatever. Like you can't, obviously, like be like, oh, like if you're like, like a straight man over 35, you can't buy my ticket. What the fuck? - Yeah, and then just gonna pretend they're gay. - There's, yeah, there's no way. - They're like, submit like an Instagram with rainbows. And like, let me meet her. Like, oh, it's like those tiktoks that like, I feel like I see sometimes if like gay dudes being like, okay, like how do I let girls know on a walk that like, I'm not gonna kill them? Like, we're on a hike and it's like slay diva. Like per se, like I should there be some kind of requirement like that online to buy a meet and greet ticket. I don't really think that that's possible. So it's like-- - Show us your grinder account. And then you can come back. - Right, or like just play the sound and see if they respond. But I just feel like there's no, so it's like not these girls fault that like some weird pervert was able to come to my meet and greet. So there was a little bit of me being like, I need to get back out there. But there was also like, this is like a thing that I feel like happens, I'm sure you've experienced it, where it's like, I think that a lot of the times the people who help you in your career. Like, of course, a lot of times you hope that they care about you as a person, but also like you, you know that like, it's also their job to like get you on stage and get you where you need to go. And so sometimes there's like a weird air of like, you can tell that they just want you to like get the fuck back out there at your job, but you can tell that they also have to be like-- - This is crazy. - Delicate about it and a little bit like, okay, so, so there's a lot of like, okay, so clearly you're upset. That was very upsetting, weird. We've escorted him out of here. And you take all the time you need. That being said, Soundcheck is in 30 minutes and you have about a 27 minute lie left waiting to meet you and they have paid. If you want, we can refund it. We might not be able to forward gash the bus tonight, but if you want, it's ultimately up to you 'cause clearly this is a very like upsetting time. You know what I mean? There's a lot of that kind of like, when you as a human are also the product, it's like a very weird thing for people, I think, working with you to help you succeed. - By the way, your performance as a manager, Oscar worthy. - Thank you. - That was great. - Thank you, thank you, do you relate? Are you like, wow, that's so, so me. Actually wasn't Tim at the time. This was like my old weird managers who were like, really scary and like, we're not just scary to me. But yeah, it was, it's just, I feel like there's a lot of that when it's like, people who are trying to help you, who do care about you, but ultimately like, you are the product, but you're also a human being. It's a very like weird thing, I like to deal with sometimes. - Okay, to bring it back to collaboration, what do you feel like are, 'cause I love that you are using the nuance, which is true of like, they do care about you, but there's still money involved. So it's this weird, very layered thing. When it comes to like collaborators, what for you is like the worst thing someone could do in a writing session? What is like, I'm never going back to that person again. - I mean, there are a lot of things that I could say would be like the worst thing. And like, if I'm like, imagine like crazy shit that I actually have not experienced, I think I have- - What have you experienced? - My least favorite thing, I actually have not been like, unlucky in the sense that people are being like super like, I mean, I've been in a session before with someone who's actually like, very successful. But I think because of their success, like believe it, you know, like it just kind of gave this person like a big head, I think. And I was like talking about what I wanted my style to be in like the sound that I was working on. I was probably like 18th this time. And I was like starting a new project. And this was the first time that we had met. And I already had some examples of stuff that like I liked. And he said it was like, no, none of that's good. And I was like, okay, okay. Like, first of all, you could have put that more delicately. Even if you are right, like, you know, could have been a nice way to approach that. But secondly, like, you don't work for my label. You don't work for my management. Like, we're like meeting to like create together. And you're basically telling all my ideas are bad. And that I don't know myself. And I was like, just because I'm like a teenager doesn't mean that I don't know myself. Know myself and like know the message that I want to get out to my fans who are my age also, which I think has also frustrated me through time. I'm like, you know, now I'm 27 now. It's like, I feel like obviously like my fan base is like a bigger. It's like the age group, I think is larger now. But when I was writing music as a teenager, I was like, I'm writing music for teenagers. So I do not like when people who were significantly older than being a teenager would tell me like, what wouldn't be communicated well to my fans. So that was like not great. I was like, that's such a weird thing to say. And I've had things like that happen before. But I also have been in sessions in real life where it's like me and like two or three straight men. And like I say something and no one really reacts. And then one of them repeats it. And everyone's like, that's a great idea. And I actually before that happened in the first time, I was like that, like I feel like it couldn't be that blatant. Like our men really that blatantly ignoring, 'cause I was like a child when this was happening. So before that, I hadn't been in rooms where like I had been exposed to the possibility of like, men doing shit like that. Where they truly ignore you, speak over you, almost like laugh at you, don't care about what you're saying. One of them does actually hear a pretence that they don't kind of repeats it in their own words. And then it's like, wow, that was genius. It's really, that has happened to me on more than one occasion. And I have never worked with those people ever again. 'Cause I'm like, you are profiting off of like pop girls and you hate women. - That was the perfect lead into what I was going to say. You set it up even better. I'm going to make a big broad statement. So don't get crazy in the comments, but I'm going to make this statement. Is that the bulk broad statement, the bulk of straight men do not buy tickets to see female pop artists perform. If they do, it's for their girlfriends or their daughters. And yet the bulk of pop music being sung by women is being made by straight men. They don't even like this art form. - And then because they wrote it, then they want to bring 17 of their weird male friends to the show and you give them out all these tickets. It's like, and then they understand her like this. What a fuck are you here? Like actually, why the fuck are you here? - Yeah. - And I know that is a blanket statement. There are obviously like straight men who are very talented pop writers for young women. It's like very like weird that it works out that way, but it does a lot of the times. But I do think it's strange that a lot of people who are in charge of the way that like young women's careers work are, whether it's like songwriters, managers, people at record labels, people at publishing companies. You wouldn't listen to this in your free time. I know that you don't, I actually know that even when you're working with me, you don't listen to my music in your free time. You listen to it when you have to like approve a mix or give me your opinion on something that I've made or whatever, but it's like, unless you work with me, you would never be buying a ticket to my show. So I do think that that is weird. And there are of course like a lot of men that I work with that I love and that I appreciate. And like I have like benefited a lot from their help and advice, but it does strike me as odd. - What I think that's weird. like an industry like that is like there's so many women who are like the powerhouse of pop music. - Yep. - And a lot of times there's like straight dudes behind the scenes where it's like, this is not, like we're not making music for you. How do we even know how to write music that's not for you? - Yeah. - It's really weird. - Hello, my little un-famous friends. So, the thing about the algorithm, low-miss algorithm, is that she doesn't want to let people know about our podcast, unless she thinks that people love it. So, if you follow this podcast, one of the old-school YouTubers say, like, subscribe and follow. If you do that for me, then you will help the un-famous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people. So, please do me just a cute little favor and follow this podcast and share it and do all those fun things. Bye. - Well, I think like the reason why someone wouldn't listen to you is because it's not, in the session, it's because it's not even what they'd like. You know, it's like, I grew up obsessed with the songs that Annie DeFranco wrote when she was 18, 19, 20. There's the album that Alonus Morseh wrote when she was 18, 19. Like, the album that Fiona Apple wrote when she was 16. Like, that is what I care about. So, when I met you, when I met Julia Michaels, when I met these brilliant young women who were unbelievable writers, of course I'm going to listen, because that's what I like and let me help you guys do what you do even better. - Yeah. - And I think that that's like a huge mistake in our industry is it's like, well, if you're not, you're not listening to these young women because one, you're misogynistic, but two, because you don't even like the art form. - Yeah. - So just get out of here. - Get out. Get out of here. But that's also like, it's impossible to say because like, there has been so much success. - Of course. - So I'm just like, fuck, but I'm like, how did you get here in the first place? - Yeah. - It's so frustrating. There are, I'm sure like plenty of dudes who are not misogynistic, who are like actually like, oh, I still wouldn't listen to this in my free time, but I'm helping you do it. And I like wanting to have your voice and whatever. But I was truly, I don't know why I was shocked by this because like, of course, a straight man will always have the audacity in like every industry. But I really when I was younger was very shocked by the amount of very successful writers who had worked with a lot of female artists who I would get in the room with and they would not give a fuck about anything I was saying. I was like, how? - This is so weird that you've made it so far. - Without listening to the artists. - Without listening to any of these women who have made you successful, it's a crazy thing. - A good gillian dollist, it is so weird. - What, I know how B-Miller writes a song because I write many with you. To all of your amazing fans listening, how do you start a song? I think that's the biggest question I get for people trying to write songs. How do you start? It is a mystery. - It's a mystery. - It's a mystery. - It's honestly a mystery to me too. I don't know if it's ever a mystery to you. In a way, it's like, yeah, I obviously know how we start a song. But sometimes, this has happened to us before. We reach the end of writing a chorus or whatever and we're like, this is fucking really good. What the fuck? You literally just make it out of thin air and it's like, as it's happening, I don't always realize that it's happening. But people do ask me this question actually a lot, like friends and just random people that I meet who don't work in the music industry or especially any creative industry. Like they really can't understand. But I always, I think it's obviously different for everybody. Like I know some people who write a whole fucking set of lyrics at home with no melody and bring it to someone who writes a melody. Like I know people who do everything 100% completely by themselves in like an hour or some people who spend like fucking two months on one song. Like it's obviously different for everyone. But I would say when we make a song, it's like we, first of all, we just like shoot the ship for like an hour, we laugh and play. It always starts with conversation. And then you eventually will flag something that I say by accident. And you're like, that's the song of the day. A lot of times, like there are every once in a while I've come to you, like when we were depressed on the internet, I was like, oh, this is what I want to write about today because like I just recently discovered that I apparently had depression for like five years. Surprise, surprise. But, I'm so excited. But Morgan, do you know this story? It's worth repeating. Yeah, there's actually a prompt in there. I wanted to get to this. Okay, great, let's get to it now. Yeah, so. Your friend's corner, you. My friend, yeah, my best friend, Teddy, cornered me. She's also my roommate. And we've lived together for many years now. And we were talking about something. She like unintentionally cornered me because at first we were just having a conversation in our kitchen. And then I made some kind of joke that in, to me was genuinely, like I was like, LOL, imagine. It was like, oh my god, like that would be like, if I was like super depressed and blah, blah, blah. And she, like we run the middle of the, she let it go. It was like, fuck. It was actually like that out of a movie. I was like, oh my god, girl, I've never seen someone do that in real life for real. And she literally immediately stops laughing. And she's like, if you were depressed. And I kept laughing because I was like, yeah, if. Yeah, if. Yeah. Just like, you think that the way that you are and the things that you feel, or really mostly don't feel, is just like your personality. I was like, yeah, like I've been this way for years. I'll be like, yeah, granite, like I used to like have, you know, more excitement and joy and like passion and love and like all these wonderful things when I was younger, but like that's just, that's just what happens when you're a teenager. You just enjoy and passion and love. Yeah. That's only for teens. And adults are all just beaten down by the world. So of course, we don't experience those things. It's like, it's like you dates when you're like, I guess, like whatever, I have love. It's just like, I don't really fucking care. It's just like something to do. It's like, oh, I'm gonna write this song 'cause like I have to pay my bills and there's no such thing as passion or love or excitement or joy. That's just what happens when you are an adult. And she was like, no, like, no. You used to have passion for these things and enjoy life, not because you were a teenager who just like was more emotional, but because you weren't experiencing extreme depression. I was like, no, but like, there have been times where I've like literally like wanted to die and like that was extreme depression. Like that's what depression looks like for me. She was like, no, actually, like they're different, they're different ways to be mentally ill. (laughing) She was like, they're different branches of each mental illness. She was like, I'm obviously not a doctor, but I've been to enough of my own doctors to be able to tell you girl that personally, you need a therapist. I've been begging you for years. Second of all, I was just like, I truly thought that I just got older and my personality became apathetic. Like I was like, oh, like, I've just been so beaten down by the world that I've developed a really thick skin and like I just, and instead of just being thick skin and still experiencing joy, I was like, and my thick skin is so thick that I never get too excited about anything. So I never get super let down and everything is just kind of whatever and I don't care. - Ish, yeah. - It's just like whatever. And she was like, that is, you have depression. (laughing) - So, and I actually had no idea. Then we were talking about this for a while and I was like laughing so hard, I was crying, but I was also maybe crying 'cause I was like, fuck, like what the fuck I got this. - I know. - I think I truly was like, this is who I am for years and then she was like, no, like you're like actually someone totally else and I was like, well that's also something I don't really want to unpack. (laughing) Like if I'm not this like apathetic diva, like who am I? Like that sounds really annoying to figure out. And I was like, this is fucked, like feel something. - Yeah. - Which is not your biggest song, but it's our biggest song together. It's literally like at 19, you came into a session with me and you were like, God, feeling things must be so cool. (laughing) Like I don't, I just, I don't. - Yeah. - And what's the open line of, if I could choose anything. - She was anything, I would be good in bed one day. - 'Cause you're just like, sex is so boring. - Like everything sucks, like nothing is fun and like everyone just like loves to come and it's just like not that great. (laughing) I just like, I was just like nothing, it's like not that fun. And like, oh, like kissing, I'm like an off me. Everyone is just like, let's like go party. I'm like, what, like maybe if we drink enough to die, like that would be exciting. Like I just was like, I, I don't. - Which leads to our song, Drunk Enough. - Right. - Cut, that's your new single. - Yeah, the new single is something about like, oh, like I just have to get drunk enough to actually enjoy life because I have depression, but at this time I actually knew about that depression already, so I was working on it. (laughing) But I didn't know there's anything to work on part of this conversation with Teddy. And I just thought that like, this was my state of being. And then, what really set me over the edge and made me believe, like perhaps I actually truly have a problem was that my other roommate, James came home. And you know, he, I wouldn't say, like, love James, like he's my friend, but I wouldn't say he's the most like, like we don't want to have like emotional conversations, really. - Yeah. - And we don't like tap into our, like feelings together. - Real mates, not sisters. - Yes. - Yeah. And he came in while we were having this conversation and Teddy was like, James, be think she's not depressed and James started laughing. (laughing) And I was like, oh, like, we all thought you knew. I was like, you all thought that I have this problem and no one ever brought it to my attention and they were all like, well it was so obvious that we just figured that you knew and just didn't care. I was like, no, I mean, I don't care about stuff, but apparently that's because I'm depressed and not because I'm just really cool. (laughing) And I was like, that is so fucked. So that day was really an eye opener for me and then like a week later we wrote to press on the internet. So that day we obviously had something to talk about. But I do feel like a lot of times we just are key king and then you're like an hour and a half and you're like, well that's the song and then we accidentally like have a whole thing to write about that I wasn't planning on. So that's my process, my processes. We just have fun. To bring it all back, God, I'm like hosting the podcast for you. >> I keep trying to interject and you're just like, you've been in it. I mean, I'm posting the podcast. That I always start my writing process with conversation. Conversations with you are just, it's a little more special. Like, sex retention, one of my favorites. You were telling me a story of how you were at the bar in, like, these leather pants dancing all night. Things were musty. >> Tight leather pants. Tight leather pants and like, not cotton underwear. So, like, that's how you really, like, kind of keeps everything, like, from fixing too bad. I think I was like, it was like mostly polyester and it's like not, it's like plastic. I mean, plastic and leather. >> Yeah. And dancing. >> And dancing. >> And you were telling me how you were in leather pants, plastic panties dancing all night and you really wanted everyone's, you needed to know that at least one person wanted to fuck you. >> Yeah. And then the problem was. >> And I never want to fuck anybody else. I was like, but you should want to fuck me. >> You just want, you want the attention. >> Right. >> Yes. >> You should want to fuck me, but I don't want to fuck you. But I need to know you want to fuck me. And so then we wrote a whole song of you were like, oh fuck, now I have to, maybe I have to fuck this person. >> Yeah. >> Because I just, I'm having sex for attention. >> Yes. Like, I need attention. But then, like, I'm just like, I get so much attention that it's like, oh, well, now I just like, I really, now I have to do the sex. >> Now I have to do sex with you. Like, I've let this get so far. Because that night also, like, that night, I just, like, it was like a group of dudes. There's always like some group of dudes who have a tail first off. >> You know what's really fucking annoying? These Jews had a table at Davy Wayne's. Fuck you. >> You can't. >> Davy Wayne's is like a kitschy dive bug. >> It's a kitschy hit. >> You don't live in Ella. >> No, it's, well, I'm- >> Actually, it's like, shut down because of a bram and- >> Actually, just, yeah, I was invested with rats like this past weekend. So I don't really know what's that. >> That makes you like it more, yeah. >> Yeah, I actually feel like lean into the dive, get rats. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, like actually now I haven't gone there in a while, now I'll be returning. Like once they clear out those rats, I'm just gonna know that they were there and I'm be like, that makes me like- >> This place is cool. >> Yeah. >> But they're like, they probably were a dive, like back in the day and then they became like cool, kind of- >> Trendy, trendy. >> Like trendy, so then it became like a little bit less divy because it was like trendy, but it was like trendy because it was a dive, kind of, you know, that's like a never-ending cycle. >> Chicken A, chicken A. >> But like it's just like not the kind of place where like it's not like a club or you're like, I'm gonna get a table and get bottle service. Like, it's just like so annoying, first of all, that these dudes are like, we have a table at Davey Wayne. So I was like, fuck you. >> So they're like asking me, like, oh, come over to our table, like you and your girlfriends, like you guys are so hot and fun and cool. And I was like, I know. And like, that's why we're having more fun without you. We don't need your table because we're at Davey Wayne, it's like, fuck off. And a lot of them were like wearing sweatshirts in the club. I was like, I just can't, like I'm just like you're annoying me. And so like, keep going up and asking, I'm like, no, like go, like we're having fun. Like, I want to buy my own drink. I love paying $25 for a mocka soda, because I just, I honestly most of the time, like my friends will get on me about this. They're like, why don't you just like pretend to be interested in a man for ten minutes to get a free drink? And I'm like, I actually would rather go bankrupt buying my own drinks than pretend that men are interesting for even one second. Like I just cannot fucking do it. That whole thing where you're in the line and you're like, wow, that's so cool. Like I just like, yeah, I just fucking hate it so bad. They're asking, I come to the table, I'm like, no, no, no. Finally my friends are like, we don't want to keep buying our drinks. We're going to the table. We didn't figure this out. And I was like, table time. I think I know some guys, they come back for the third, fourth time. Come to our table. I was like, fine. It's your lucky day. We'll come to your table. And so then like, but then I'm like kind of being like, okay, like this is like a game to me. Like how much can I flirt with this like fucker who I kind of care about. Like how interesting can I get him to be to like give me attention and make me feel like so beautiful and awesome and sexy and fun. And I took it so, but then also it's like, then I have the drinks are flowing now, I'm having like a silly time. Now I just like want to keep the night going. So the bar closes and then they're like, we're going to go and like play beer pong or something at our house. And I love beer pong. You do. And so obviously I'm there. I'm like, yeah, I'm there. I drag my friends along with me. But also you're welcome to my friend Olivia because she actually met her boyfriend this way because I dragged her us to this apartment and I was like, let's go. Um, but yeah, so now it's like, I'm like, I've been getting the attention for so long because like now I'm like having a little bit of fun, but I'm not having fun with this man. I'm just like having fun. But now it's like he thinks that I came back because I'm like flirt. And so then I was like, well, now I just need to commit to the bit. Like now it's for him now it's for him. And he's he's just been like wanting to fuck me more and more all night. And so how was it? We didn't have sex because yeah. But he did go to town for like 30 minutes after again, I had been shfitsing in my leather pants. Like I don't know that I've ever sweat that much from my plus until this night. And then he and he loves it. And he he peeled my leather pants off, peeled them off top still on. I'm just like looking at the ceiling, he's just like going for it. And eventually I was like, well, that was great, thank you. Pat hit him on the head. Yeah. And then um, still there's like, yeah, and then I was like, yeah. He actually was like, oh, but like I can't get my dick out because I did too much coke and I was like, oh no. And then I left. So. And then we were sex for attention. We were sex for attention. So yeah, if this story speaks to you at all, you're going to love my, my next, my album upcoming project. You're going to be like, wow, she's so mean. The, the last song I have to talk about in this current tangent, there'll be more tangents don't worry. My other favorite song starter with you was a song that we have coming called LA Ugly because I asked you what, because we had just written the day before we wrote a song called Unlovable, which is one of my other favorites on the album, um, which is you just being like, I'm Unlovable, can someone please teach me how to be lovable? Um, and then I was like, okay, so that's like a, it's, I wouldn't call it a ballot, but it's emotional and still funny because you're always funny. And I was like, sit down today, like what's just like what makes you feel sexy? Like what makes you feel hot? Like what makes you, that's like, that's what's B Miller's version of a sexy song. And without flinching, you go, oh my god, you know what makes me feel so hot? That I'm ugly in LA, that I am LA ugly. Like being an LA-10 must be so exhausting. Those girls who are LA-10s, like they have to look hot all the time. If someone takes a bad picture of me, I don't have to stress because no one's looking at my pictures. You're just getting lost in the sea of bad pictures. So do I drop in the bucket? Like no one, no one fucking cares. And a lot of them, I post myself, like, I really don't think it matters. And I was like, the fact that without flinching, that was your honest answer. What makes me feel hot is that I'm not, to get a little cheesy about it, that I'm not perfect. And that is actually so sexy to me. Like you were being funny because you always are, but you weren't like, that was your immediate answer. This is what makes me hot. Like a ridiculous song about it. Being an LA-7 on a good day. I would say, like, I have a six, but if I have my face beat and my tits out, like, I'm maybe a seven. Which I'm saying, it's like that. Take you to the Midwest. Oh. You're at 11.7. Exactly. Like, we're like the hottest people alive when we leave the city. And so is basically everyone. Yeah. Righting the song, and you and I understand it deeply, like, I know I'm not an LA-10. I like the way I look, but I'm not an LA-10, and that sounds exhausting. Yeah. Having to have abs every single day. No, I'm not going to have a lot of it. I've never had it. I've never had it. Like, I'm just not doing it. And so you and I are understanding this song and the like, fabulous, ridiculous truth behind it. But the other two amazing collaborators, Oak Felder and Dan Crean, kept being like, "Hey, you're not ugly." And you're like, "I'm not." Well, no, you're not. Actually, I think I am ugly. Now, the fact that you two are being like, "Oh, P," like, "It's not that bad." I'm like, "Well, now I actually feel like you think I'm the ugliest fucking troll to ever walk this year." I was actually feeling really hot and fun and sexy over here with Justin until you guys were like, "Oh, no. Oh, you guys. You're cute, though." Aww. Aww. Like, they really were trying their best. I was like, "No, like, you don't get it." Yeah. And I'm pretty confident in myself, like, I'm really just like happy with the way I look. It's fine. Yeah. But I'm definitely not the hottest baddie in a room most of the time in this city. And that's okay. I definitely have been in, like, the middle of nowhere. Yeah. But I'm okay with that and I'm actually happy about it because I've said to you, like, I'm hot enough to get into the club without much of a fuss without waiting too long on the line. But not so hot that once I'm in there, I am just being constantly bombarded by people who are like, "Oh, my God. I just have to have her." Yeah. Extra for that one time in those guys. I come to our table. We have hoodies on and we've got a table at Davy Ways. Right. I mean, they needed, they needed love and you gave it to them. Yeah, because I clearly I need attention. No, it's such an amazing singer, which you'll never say about yourself, but I'll say it for you, as a truly, truly, truly special singer. How do you, the difference of like a demo vocal versus a final vocal, that even just a demo production versus final production? What is your process of keeping magic of the demo, but making sure something's finished? And you can focus on the vocal if you want, or. I have definitely been guilty of demoitis, which in case anyone's unfamiliar, I feel like it's kind of self-explanatory, but it's just like you have a demo of something that you make the same day and it's not finished, but you listen to that demo so many times that you're like when it's actually like potentially made better technically, like you can't let go like the original version, which a lot of producers hate that. They really don't like to send us a day of bounce of the song because I like what if you like it better than what I actually put in a lot of time and energy into making it better, but I really try not to be guilty of that, but sometimes I think that there is like a certain, I think it depends on the lyrical content and like emotional feeling up the song when I feel like it's finished. Yeah. I think that there have been songs that I've worked on where they're really emotional and like really tug at like the heart strings and like they're they're a little bit more like vulnerable and not in like the fun, funny way that I feel like we've really mastered at this point in like terms of like my artistry, but like things that I just kind of it's like stream of consciousness almost in the studio, and then I like to keep those kind of untouched. I kind of like a more demo sounding thing. Again, producers hate that, but that's like the kind of stuff where I'm like that's really or all their times there's like a magic in the studio that day. Like everyone is just like vibrating with some kind of like there's just something there that like it's so fun. It feels so good and like the song you're just like and then you hear like a potentially like technically better version, and it just doesn't capture the same. Like there have been times where where Oak Felder has best vocal producer of life on earth on the planet. But there have been also writer and producer overall. But the vocal production is unknowingly good. Yeah. But he has like done something in the session that's like a certain drum pattern that isn't what do you call it quantize where it's not like pretend it's not like exactly like to the 100% in line with the it's not like this with the BPM. It's not like 100%. That's probably the way I'm saying it's not right, but it's not 100% like in time. It's it's it's just been kind of like added in there in the moment. And then there have been times where he sends me and I don't know that in the moment, but I love the song. And then he'll send me this is happening on like three of the songs on this project. Then he'll send me a version like a week or a month or whatever later. And I'm like it sounds polished and mostly the same. It's like better, but there's something about it that it doesn't have the same feeling anymore. And the first time we couldn't figure it out until we figured out, but then the second and third time that this happened, he was like, I know what the problem is because you've had a problem like this before where I make things like more perfect. And like I quantize the drums and you're like, no, I don't like it anymore. So now we like kind of this a problem. So it just kind of depends. But then there are other times where I'm like, oh, the song isn't finished until I go in for like my third vocal attempt. And I like I've, you know, really like leaned in to like trying to in a note that I was a little bit too afraid to do before or like whatever. It's like, I think for me, it's like, I know when a song is done because I just like know what it's done. Yeah. Which is so fucking annoying to everybody around me. No, but I mean, because I'm also like, I'll get like 17 mixes of something sometimes before I'm happy with it. Yeah. But I think is, you know, was we just just turned in this album that we've made together. You always like when you are asking for what you want because you're a woman in this society, you always apologize every time. And I'm like, and you're like, I don't know how to explain it, like no, you're explaining it very, very well. And I just feel like I didn't go to like music school. I don't like know the proper terms for things sometimes. It's like, oh, I feel like I'm being so annoying. I send like voice notes. And I'm like, so like the thing about this little thing here is that this one noise is like, and I feel like she'd be like, I'm just like, what the fuck am I even talking about? And I just feel like there's like at least like two songs on this project where I feel like we went back like where you were like, okay, like I, I'm like, it's reach a point where after like this third mix, I think it sounds great. Whatever, but be like, I'm sure that you're going to hear something that like is just only like standing out to you. And like there always is something like that. You have great years. And I think it's 99% of the time you're right. And I think that also we live in a world where like the artist for better or worse is in charge of marketing. Even though we wish that like you could market in the old school ways, the artist is you're in charge whether we like it or not. So like if you're not obsessed, what's the point? The days of like the label forcing it down radios throughout a single that the artist hates. And then it's a huge hit and the label can go see we told you those or the producer saying see I told you or the writer saying see I those days are over. So it's like, we should always listen to the artist, but especially now because if you are if you if it was an artist doesn't want to think that if you talk with the song, then it's not happening. It's not happening. I mean, what I also love though too is you are the lyrics that you write are so human that like things should feel honest like on my for sure favorite song on the album summer of 16. It is so first of all your melodies in that are some of the best melodies I've ever heard in my life. And secondly, it is such a raw feeling of like romanticizing like your teenage best friends or best friends plural that like it had to be handled so delicately and you like in a positive way really fought for that production to be. Yeah, right. Which we mainly kept take it strip it back. Please strip it back. We had a conversation about that where it was we wrote that so towards kind of the end of our album writing process. We have and I know that you've spoken about this on this podcast before. It's like if you are not like in a small group of people kind of like working on a project together, then everyone always just wants to get like the single and then you have a full record of just songs that are just like it doesn't necessarily go together. They're fighting each other to be the best one where I feel like we we made every song but one on this project together. And so that really gave us the freedom and with only like three producers, the most part. Yeah. And so that really gave us the freedom to just sit there and be like, okay, what this song is. Fill in the gap. It's special because it is like the way that we made this demo this day makes us all feel like a certain emotion that I think is just perfectly captured as is. And I on that song, we we did what like four sessions after that song on that one thing trying to like add drums and take away. And how's it go? Like I don't like the the drum kit that we use. And then eventually I was like, actually, I just don't think I want drums. I think that we don't need. And so it sometimes takes. So it's like technically like maybe that first version that Sean sent that was like better and like more finished should have been good to go. But it's like I never know when this song is finished until it just feels right. Like sometimes it requires a lot more assistance. And sometimes it just like requires leaving it the fuck alone. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's the fact that you an artist should know that when a song is done or not. And you definitely do. We talked about my favorite song, Summer of 16. Let's talk about your favorite song, which is my second favorite song, Born to Lose. Yeah. You are the queen of self deprecation. And what I find so special about Born to Lose is that it is deeply self deprecating. But normally when you're being self deprecating, it's like an uptempo on like a bouncy melody. That is like a really self deprecating piano anthem. How does it feel to like you're going to have to go on tour? And at the top of your register, just sing over and over. I'm born to lose. I actually meant to talk to you about this because I wanted to fight you in a way. Like I was like so annoyed. I recently started doing vocal lessons again for the first time in years. So I haven't like toured in a long time. And I'm lazy. Ultimately, and it's really easy to sing in the studio, of course, because I just like can scream out my lungs and then just rest the next day. But of course, like now preparing to potentially like tour all this music. So let me start going to vocal lessons again. And yeah, I decided that it was time that we start like practicing each song. I learned the proper like placement to sing them every night and not lose my voice. And I haven't attempted to sing Born to Lose. Since I recorded it, I've never attempted to sing it all the way through until this day. And I was so confident in the first. And I've got my little microphone set out of my vocal coach. And I had to, and I was like, I actually had to stop. And I was like, oh my god, I can't sing the song. But I was like, I can't sing the song because I recorded the song. And I like, I fucking sang the song. Yeah. But I can't sing the song. And then I was like, I hate you. And like want to kill you, even though I also was like writing the melody. You wrote that melody. Yeah. But I was like, but I was like, it's just in small. Like how can I make it someone else's fault with my own? Just take it a whole step down. Chappel sings good luck, babe, a whole step down. Does she? Yeah. And she's talked about it in interviews. I do try to go the whole step down to classic banger fire and gold truth. There is how do you feel about her singing it a whole step down? You don't care. I don't know that they even knew you don't care. I feel like maybe like people who are also in music would be able to tell. - You get down, do not hurt yourself. - But I was like, no! - When I was like, oh fuck, but it also is like, I'm like, what the fuck? Like there's so many people who record these notes in the studio and then they sing them absolutely perfectly, not better live. Like, how can I, like, why is that not me? I think I can, I just need to like, practice a lot, but also like, I think because my vocal cord hemorrhage when I was younger, like maybe there's just like a fear but it's like pushing too hard. And so, yeah, I was like, fuck, like my favorite song ever and I can't sing it. - Just take it a whole step down. - Yeah, I'm gonna have to. - It's fine, but with the self-deprecation and like, how, how does it, I know why you do it. Like, well, how does it make you feel to sing? It's literally called, I'm born to lose. (laughing) How, walk me through how you're gonna be on stage. - I just, I mean, not the vocal, not the melody. - The lyric. - I really, I just, I don't feel like I've ever necessarily had like an artist persona. I say the same things to you in private for the most part that I'm saying now, that I say to my friends. - Almost everything. - Yeah, almost everything that I say to my friends that I say to really like anybody who asks. I'm really like an open book. I'm also not the kind of person where it's like, people need to be like, oh, do you mind if I ask you about, I know it might be a sensitive day. I don't really find a lot of topics to be sensitive 'cause I just, I really am just like an open book. So I've always been that way in my music too. I do think that this music, I think I've developed like as a songwriter. I think a lot of that is because of you 'cause I didn't really believe in myself as a songwriter until you like really believed in me and told me that I had more talent than I thought because like I've also said to you before, I thought what are the odds that I was kind of pushed into making like being like an actor or a singer or whatever and then I actually had any kind of talent there. Like what are the odds that just because I could sing? Like I could also write a song. Like I just never really believed in myself until you started getting really excited about some of the melodies that I would have thrown away if you weren't in the room. Because I just like have a really hard time like figuring out what is good in that sense but because I don't necessarily like know that I didn't like know that I was a great songwriter, I don't always feel like I'm going out of my way to become gonna be like songwriter about this. It's a lot of stream of consciousness, a lot of the kinds of things that I would say just in person to anybody. And I just don't really feel like a lot of things are really like that sacred. I feel like one of my favorite parts of being live is just like talking to people and connecting with them and like that's obviously like a very generic thing to say but it's like I really, really hate the like awkward, oh, what if we like walk on excels and we have these conversations at a very surface level and like whatever, I have a really hard time with that because I just don't really feel like that's the way that I want to live my life. I'm very comfortable just being like this is what I've been through and this is how I want to talk about it. And I do find a lot of humor in it. I think that I spent many years being really miserable about things that I felt like were forced upon me and things that I didn't want to do that I had to do and I hate my fucking life and I hate. And I actually eventually was like, no, but it's honestly funny. Like it's honestly funny as fuck. It's so funny to me that like I'm like, oh, I didn't know I was depressed five years and I just thought everything was sort of like I'm just like, okay, like whatever. And I recognize also that if I hadn't had the success that I'd had at an earlier age kind of like unintentionally like not necessarily due to like my own desire and passion whatever, like I wouldn't be in a place now or like I could be writing music and actually paying my bills kind of and like doing this as a job. And I just feel like the only way to properly tell the story of where I am now is to be very candid about all the people that I've been before and all the progress of myself that exists. And so I don't really feel bad or like sad when I sing these things even though they can't be like depressing. I almost don't even think it is. I'm like it's like yes, it is like sad in theory. And be like, oh, I'm born to lose. I was really successful kind of when I was 19. And now I just like one of my, I'm like struggling to get by sometimes and like that's so weird and like difficult to grapple with. But I honestly think it's like that's just like the way that things work sometimes. It's like I really have no control and I think it's funny and I think it is just like, I like to invite people in by being like, if I tell you some of the worst shit that's ever happened to me and we can laugh about it then if anything that like makes other people more comfortable and I feel like it's inviting and that's the kind of music I like to listen to and the kind of people that I like to talk to. And I make jokes when I'm on stage. Like I'll be like, oh, so technically this song's about like the worst day of my life. But like, oh well, let's dance. And I really mean it. I just think, but I think that that has really come with time. I went from being very angry about my life and feeling genuinely devastated when I would write some of these like songs or lyrics or poems or fucking whatever I was doing to being like, it is devastating, but that is kind of fun in a way. - Yeah. - I thought. - What is your favorite lyric on the album that we have not mentioned yet? - I mean, I have like lyrics that I love because I think they're actually like really invoking more emotion like some of the lyrics in summer 16. I think are just really, for some reason, like I miss you, like I wish you were here with me, come over, like get stoned, like we did before, like that kind of shit. It's like not really like an eloquent lyric, but something about like just wanting to go. - The truth of that. - Just like the truth, just wanting to go back in time, just like smoke a joint with my friends. Like that just sounds like, but like back before I was scared of it and before I had any like real, like fears of like losing those people and like moving forward with our lives in different ways. But I also love like, when I'm a star, it's like Madonna. If she was drunk and poor. So I'm like, it's really hard for me to choose. I have a hard time, like I don't know if I love like the more absurd or the more, yeah. But there was a lot. I think that we really had like a lot of great. - I mean, the amount of times that we would shock ourselves and be like, we can't say this. And then of course, we said it at least three times a song. - Yeah, I don't know if there, there was maybe one time where like, okay, we actually can't say this. But I don't even know if there, I feel like there was like a time maybe we were close on like whether or not we do it. But I feel like most of the time we just say the thing. - Yeah. - Like we just say the fucking thing. - You just say the thing. - Because you normally say it. - And then we just make it right. - Yeah. - You say it in conversation and then we just make it right. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I just feel like that's like that's the way that I enjoy writing song the most. And that is one of the reasons that I love writing music with you because obviously I think that you're a genius. But I also just have so much fun with you. Like I just think that the most fun. Literally laugh and giggle and talk and chat. And then we have a song. And it just feels like, now I understand when people are like, oh, I don't like, if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. Like fuck you first of all. The second of all, I kind of understand it a little bit now. 'Cause I don't feel like I'm working when we're writing songs. - No, when we write it's not, now you have to like go work. - I think probably a lot of people who work with you feel that way. Like I just think that the energy that you bring to a session is unmatched from anyone that I've, and I really feel like I've written with fucking. - Are you done the whole industry? - And it's a fucking song. - Yeah, by the time you were 19, you'd written with every fucking person. - Yeah. - There he like written a lot of them off. Oh, you weird man, hate you. Thanks like, already. - We ask this question of every single guest. What is the song that ruined your life? Meaning like when you were young, you heard this and you were like, oh fuck, I have to make music. Now it might be different 'cause you were kind of forced into music from your parents. - Yeah. - What is there a moment you can remember of a song, a performance that you were like, oh fuck, that's so cool. And now I'm gonna ruin my life by being a musician. - Yes, actually. It wasn't necessarily a song. Well, I guess I think that the only exception and really just Paramore and everything, Haley Williams. And then I saw, I was already like, I heard that song and I was like, oh, like, it's over. Like it's actually over. This is the most beautiful fucking thing I've ever experienced. And I still think that this is one of my favorite songs. - Oh, it's a perfect song. - It's unbelievable. But then of course, I just started getting to all of Paramore's music at that time. And I would say I took a lot of inspiration. But also then I saw Paramore live for the first time when I was 14 or 15 maybe somewhere around there. And it was like, yes, the song and that song brought me into more of their music. And just like all of that, I was like, this is so fucking great. But seeing them live, I think I also was like, I've never really felt even when I was a kid when I didn't even know that I would do this for a living. I never felt like I'd be like the diva on stage who has backup dancers and I'm hitting these fucking, which love that down, that's not me. Like I can't, like I just, I can't pull off like a dance number. Like that. - Oh, you're a rock star. - Like it's not, it's not gonna happen. And so I think when I was younger, there was a lot of that with like the young, like pop girls. And they were all fucking great at it. And they were like doing the dances and they had like the fucking, the big props and the screens. And I was always just like, I just feel like, even though I wasn't thinking that that wasn't my career, I just felt like I didn't relate to that as much. and it seemed really like out of reach for me. - Yeah. and I saw Paramore live and I just saw Haley will, I mean, of course, like the whole band is there, but Haley Williams is such a fucking star. Like I just, she just sucked me in. I was like, this is so entertaining and so brilliant and I feel so connected to her from like way the fuck back in the nose bleeds. And she's, she's got no dancers. She's got, I mean, at one point, like they're doing tricks where they're like the fuck, they're flipping over each other with their guitars and whatever, but like that was just the band and just Haley at the front. And she never had any like real choreography. She had no backup dancers. There wasn't even much on the screen. And I was completely sold. And I was more entertained than I had been by almost any other show I'd ever seen. And I was like, oh, if like that's a way that you can do this, then that makes me want to do this. - Yeah, I didn't know that about you actually, but it makes perfect sense. Like even back when we made the EP with Feel Something, when people would ask about you, I was like, well, she's a rock star. Like she's, she's frontine a rock band. She's just, but it's not a band, it's B Miller. And that, now it makes a lot of sense. - Yeah, and like much of this is your grand of like my entire team. I'm like, I won't perform without a band. And they're like, oh, but like they expensive that. - That's expensive. - And I'm like, guess what? Like we just have to do it because me with the track and like a little, it's no one. Not, I don't even think my mother would buy a ticket to see that. I'm actually not kidding. Like I actually think Kim would be keeping her money in her wallet. I don't think I could sell that to anyone. 'Cause I just feel like the rest of what I'm doing is just like, like I said, like it's not really a persona. It's just like that's the way. And it's like, yeah, like I'll fucking hit some dance moves on the dance floor. But like no one, that is very much for fun. - I think Wayne's trying to get attention. - That's very much for free sweating in my leather pants. 12 drinks in, like we're not. Like no one is giving me their money to see that. And so for a long time, I was like, that's what a pop star is. - Right. But I had never seen a rock star do us a kind of pop song, a pop show until I saw Paramore. And I was like, now I'm in. - I love it. You ready to play Gag or Drag? - Yes. - Okay, great. - I loved when you did this with Wendy and you had to explain to her. - Yeah. - It's like gag is like, okay, like you love it. - Gag is you love it. - We love it. - Drag you hate it. - Drag you hate it. - But I thought she locked it. - She locked it. Wendy has a lot of gay friends. She understands. - Yeah. - But I did like, you were like, let me go. Galingo when Wendy was DJing in the '70s, '80s, gag was like a bad thing. - Yeah. - But now it's transformed into a good thing. - Yes. - Okay. So gag is good, drag is bad. Gag or drag leaving a party without saying goodbye. - Gag. - Gag. - Gag. I actually only do that. - Yeah. - Actually, if I say goodbye to you before leaving a party, just know I don't remember it. - I do too. - Oh. (laughing) - I either hate you. That's a good point where I'm just trying to be like, - Super nice. - Bye. - I'm so good to see you. Or I'm absolutely obliterated, blacked out. (laughing) I have been told by people like, oh, like I'll host a party and they'll be like, oh, like, I'm glad that we like got to say body on my way out, like I felt bad for leaving early. And I'm like, girl, what? I don't fucking remember that at all. So, yeah, big fan. - You know, Darian, who lives here and does your makeup quite frequently, Darian will leave parties at her own home with people that she invited. (laughing) - Yeah. - She'll just walk upstairs. - That's why I'm serious. - And then I'm like. - Like two floors away. - Yeah, and I'm just like, well, now I'm just here with Darian's friends. (laughing) Like, someone has-- - How soon in? Is it like 25 minutes in? And you're like, and this is your party now just-- - She'll do it. If it's my party, she'll leave 12 minutes in. - Just making a appearance. - If it's her friends, she gives them at least an hour and a half. - Okay. - And then, at least, but I'm like, well, someone has to walk them out and lock the door. - But I kind of get like-- - I guess that's me now. - No, if anything, she's the people's princess. She's like, okay, my friends are having fun. (laughing) I'm no longer having fun, but who am I? - To stop them from enjoying their night. - Yeah. - I'm with that. - So now it's my response. Yeah. Okay, gag or drag? People who text call me with no context. - Drag. - That is satanic. - Actually, I might block you. I might revoke your access to me permanently if you do that, Shay. I fucking hate that. I've also had people be like, we need to talk or like, call me. And then they don't respond for like an hour or two. I mean, and then it was something chill. Then they get out of whatever they're doing and they're like, oh, sorry. I just wanted to know like what our plans are for like next Saturday. And I'm like, I actually hope that you know that you have taken years off of my already decaying body because of the stress that that caused me. Like that is fucked up. Like ew. - gag or drag me telling you that something you love in a song is the worst part of a song. Has that ever happened? Morgan wrote this question. I don't know. - I just wanted to know. - I don't know. I mean, I would actually love to gag. I actually would say like-- - You would love to gag. - Yeah, I actually feel like I was like, just it. This is it. And you're like, no, Diva. It's actually not. It's trash. I hate it. It's actually the worst thing that you've maybe ever come up with. I think I would live for that. I think I'd be cracking the fuck up. I would, I think that that would honestly be so fun. - Yeah. - I don't know that I've ever brought you an idea where you're like, this is the worst thing I've ever heard. - No. - You may have been like, mm, not your best. But like we're working towards the better thing. - Yeah. - But I actually think that would be gag. I'd be like, okay, out of everyone. Like I think if like some random suit told me that, I'd be like, kill yourself. - Right. - But if you told me that, I'd be like, oh well, I just, I trust you completely. So you must be right. And that's so funny and I'm laughing at myself that I thought this was a good idea. - And then we probably would still put it in the song. - Yeah. - 'Cause then it would be a joke. - You'd be like, okay, like now we're just gonna put it in there and it's bad, but like we love it. - It's a bit. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Gag or drag sleeping with a TV on? - Uh, drag. - Really? - I can't do it. - I can't do it either. - I can't, why can't you do it? - I just don't, it's, there's no, I don't watch TV in my room, that just seems crazy to me. - Oh, I do, 'cause I have roommates. So it's like, I do honestly that I can really be like alone. And it's watching TV in my room. If I'm in the living room, like sometimes in the room to chat and other times I'm like, no, I just wanna watch my movie and like, you don't shut the fuck up. But I can't fall asleep, but there's like an ounce of light. Like there's like a little light on the TV in my room that sometimes if I'm having like a really bad night where I'm like really restless, I have to get up and put something in front of it to cover it because I can't sleep. And also, people who like fall asleep will really like watching movie on the couch. I've never done that, because I need to turn it off. If I miss even one line that someone says and something, I need to go back. I feel like I need 100% context. - Do you put captions on? - Of course. - Yeah, captions on. I'm like, I can't hear without my caption. - I know. - It's not happening. - The show never played. - But I can't fall. It's like I need to turn it off so that when I wake up and want to potentially keep watching it, I know exactly where I left off. Whereas like you fall asleep and then you're like, "Oh, the fucking credits are rolling." Like, "Well, the fuck is going on if you ever want to finish it." Like then you'd like, go back and figure out where you fell asleep. Like, I just can't, all that. I just can't. Like, it's too light, it's too loud. And also, I just feel like I can't miss a single thing. - Yeah. Agreed. Gaggar Drag, sharing your location with friends indefinitely. - Gag. - Yeah. - I think that like people that aren't even fucking hang out with anymore have my location. There are people who, I don't, they might show up here. I don't know. I will go to like, I don't know, like a music festival with like a friend's girlfriend's sister. And I will share my location with the whole group because we're like, oh, we're at a festival, our location shitty or like whatever. And so we all know each other. And then those people saw my location. I, I myself have theirs. Everyone wants to go through my location thing. I'm like scrolling this much. - How many people do you think have your location? - I would say like 30. - Okay, that's not crazy. - Like, I'm probably right now. Or maybe I just think it's 30 because I have about 30. But I think that it could be more. 'Cause I never go back and unshare. Like there are like, people I'm no longer friends with. But I hope don't like hate me so much that they want to like, stalk and murder me. And they still have my location. I'm just like, just, you know, hoping and praying that that works out for me. - I can think of a few that we maybe should take off just in case. - Yeah. - Okay. Gag or drag couples who post every argument online. - Gag. - Gag. - I love it. - I love it. - I mean, terrible for their life. - So terrible for us. - I think that I just as like a general rule, if your relationship is a big part of your fame, success, social media presence, content creation, you owe us. You need to let me fucking in on why you broke up. I want you to sit down and fucking sit down from the care of both of you side by side. - Post-Track. - I don't even care if you put a fucking wall between you. Sit down together and you sit there for 10 minutes and tell me every detail of what happened. - I agree. - I didn't even let me ask questions. I just think, if you, I'm like, if you, I just think like, also though like when random celebrities break up, sometimes I'm like, I wish I could get the tea on that. But I think if your whole thing is like, and I make content with my partner, and you don't tell me exactly, oh, it's just like a really private thing between fucking you, like actually fucking you. - Nothing else is private. - I'd say it was not private when we were like doing all these pranks on each other in your living room. Let me know what the fuck. (laughing) Like I honestly like, I can't say that I'm like, standing James Charles by any means. But when that whole fucking drama was happening with biceps or like friendship break up, I was sat the whole time. I didn't follow him. I didn't care about what he was doing. Don't give a shit. I was sat. - The break up. - It was just so good. - What was her name, Tati? - Tati. - Slay. - Fuck. - I never saw her face before that. - Never saw her fucking content before that and never gave a shit about James Charles. Still don't to this day. I lived for that. Like I was on tour in the back of my bus on Vokarest. Like. (laughing) [BLANK_AUDIO] - Fucking gagged, loved it. And that's how I think it should always be. - I agree. Gag or drag fans asking artists to return to the sound they made as teenagers. - Oh, okay. - This was a loaded question, Morgan. - Well, yeah, loaded question. I obviously say drags. I'm like, let me like express myself. Like, are you who you were at 15? No. But at the same time as a fan. - Get back there. - I'm kind of like, okay. Like get back in the studio. And like, I think, I think it depends. I think age plays a factor. It's like, okay, like if you love this artist when you were teenager and they were a teenager, like they were obviously making some teenage shed, especially if they were like under a label that was like really pushing them to make like very like child-leaning stuff. But like, then like they grow older and it's like, now you're both adults. Maybe you like different things. And so then I think it's a little bit like, okay, like we're not going back to like, making teeny-bopper like fucking whatever. I do say though as a fan, like as an artist, I'm like, boo, like shut the fuck up. I'm going to make what I want. But as a fan of music, I really hate what I'm like. I have been streaming your music and following you and fucking paying for your concerts and whatever for years because you're making this kind of thing. And now you're randomly like fucking jumping ship to make like God for me, it's country. I'm like, how fucking dare you? Like actually how dare you do this. I just can't even fucking believe it. You better go back there or you've lost my business. So it's like I get it from both. But also a lot of times when I feel that way as a fan, it's not people that I love as a teenager who are now making adult music. It's people that I've loved as an adult when they were also an adult. And then they just like went into totally different direction from like why they became fans. - Yeah, you're a nuanced woman. You can see both sides of the argument. - Yeah, gag or drag people who clap when the plane lands. (laughing) - Okay, like drag because like, that's like, I hate white people, but God, because I'm like, that's so funny. Like it makes me laugh and like, you're so embarrassing and they're just, like they're so happy. And they feel like they're doing a really good deed. And I think that's honestly cute. - Yeah, they're applauding the pilot. - I'm like, all like, that's so funny. - Yeah. - Like the pilot doesn't care. - And also like did they think they were gonna die. - Yeah. - And now they're super happy. - They're like, very high. - Yeah. - Like that thing is kind of funny. - I agree. Gag or drag cancelling plans. - Gag. - Gag. - Gag. - High to that all the time. - It's rare that I show up to a plan that I made more than like 48 hours ago. - Yeah, yeah. Gag or drag turning a private breakdown into release week content. Oh, good question, Morgan. - Gag. - Yeah, Gag, sell that fucking song. - Yes, sell that fucking song. - Sell that fucking song. - We support you. - We support you. We are there. And I'm seeing you. - We are all trying to get views. - Yes. - We have a microphone in our face right now. - Yes. - Gag or drag deleting a text and pretending you never sent it. - Drag. - Drag. - I just want to do that. I just own it. - Yeah. - If I've said or done something embarrassing or something, I've come to regret, I just let it linger there. I just feel like that's what I deserve. It's like, it's like, you know, every once in a while someone like points out my bad behavior or something that I did too, like hurt their feelings. I'm like at first, I'm very defensive, but I usually will come around and be like, okay, now I spend some time thinking about this and you're right and I'm sorry. And so I feel like, you know, a text, or like if I, like, I feel like I have a text, I've sent that's kind of bitchy. Let's leave it there. That's my shame that I have to live with. Sometimes if I'm feeling too good about myself, I can go back and look at that and remind myself, like the kind of piece of shit that I really am. But also it's like if I send something embarrassing, like like a fucking text that like 2am being like you up, like, and I don't get a response, I need to live with that. I need to deal with the fact that I've done that. - Yeah. Gag or drag, a 27 year old artist being described as making a comeback. - Morgan, you're like, you're hateful Morgan. - I'm gonna get up at least. That is so beyond drag that I like can't even. It's like when all these artists who've been making music for 15 years get nominated as best new artist. - Right. - I'm like, oh, you're new because you're new to like a few more people that now gave you a bigger career, but you've been playing music for 15 years. That's just like fuck, like that's such a bummer. So I would say drag. - Drag, drag, full circle, full circle moments. What do you feel now as this new album has less collaborators than any of your albums in the past? You're a better songwriter than you've ever been. You're a grown-ass woman. What are you most excited about for your fans to learn about you from this album, to love about you from this album, to hate about you from this album? - Wow. I mean, I've just been so excited about this release and like this next stage for so long. I don't even know if I can like narrow down exactly what I'm the most excited about. I think this is like a surface level answer. What I'm really the most excited about is to prove that like I am still making music. I get a lot of comments on my social media that's like, "OMG, you're like still alive." Oh, I thought that something happened to you tragically like 10 years ago, but even though I thought it was tragic, I didn't care enough to like research her look into it. Because I was never that big of a fan. So I feel like there's like a lot of that. So like my ego is kind of like, I'm really excited for people to like know that I am still first of all alive and second of all still have some semblance of a career. And I'm just like, I am also excited that I am with a new label now with her public and I like worship Wendy Goldstein, as we both do. - She's one of our one of our top you episodes. - Yeah. - Of that. - She's a podcast star now. - And she really is. - Oh, no. No, like she is a stop. - The amount of text messages I got about that episode, more than any episode that I've done. - I know that you got her to do it and she like hadn't really done something like that before. - She was so happy. - She was born for it, she's born for it, and she doesn't even know. - Yeah. - She's too cool. But like I'm really just so grateful that like you have that relationship with Wendy and that she like, I don't think would just tell you that she liked something because of that relationship. - No, she had it. - And she like genuinely seems like really like believe in the project and like everyone at that label. Like I think it's really exciting to be doing something new with the label that I don't have to argue with all the time. To the point where even my fans will be excited about this because they had issues with people I've worked with in the past where they're between them themselves being like you suck and you're rooting or correct. Which I thought was honestly really fun. - I love when fans harass labels. I think it's really funny. - I thought it was so funny. Like they would post something for like my birthday and my fans would be like I am surprised even fucking now due to Google it today bitch. Like it was so funny. I was living for that. So I'm excited that they're gonna get new shit from like a label that I really hope that they will like that I'm working with a lot more. And I don't feel like I'm excited to say like oh, like they're gonna get to know me at a deeper level 'cause I do really feel like I've always just been honest about where I am in life. But I do feel like there has been a lot of growth like personal growth and like songwriting growth that I've experienced since the last time I put out. I haven't put out an album in 10 years. - Fuck. - 'Cause when we did it it was an EP. - It was an EP. - I haven't put out an album. They've been waiting for B-Miller 3 for 10 years. - I always love when they say B-M-3. - B-M-3. - B-M-3. - B-M-3. - B-M-3. And sometimes I have that money today. So I'm like, well how are you like in my house and my head do you know what I'm up to? But, (laughing) - I. - Clip it. - Clip it. - Clip it. Unfortunately I never grew out of potty humor. I will always laugh when someone farms. I'm just really excited for them to see like my fans to see like where I'm at now. 'Cause again, like I've always been honest about where I'm at but where I'm at now I think I'm like, I know myself a lot better now. - Yeah. - I'm a lot older now than I was the last time I put out an album and I'm a lot more comfortable in my ability and in my self. And so I'm really excited to see if I feel like I've always, I've had very like close bond with my fans. I think that you just kind of naturally have that. - When you grow up together. - Yeah. - When you start making music when you're a kid and your fans are kids and you literally experience life side by side. I think that's really special. And so I'm just really hoping that they, the ones who have grown with me this entire time like feel like we're still growing together and that they still like relate to my experiences that I'm having now. - I mean, any of the fans that are as demented as you are, they're gonna be-- - And they must be. - And they suck around this lot. Like they're gonna love it. - If they're still here. - Like they're still here. And I just like, I think that if you're still here, like they're in it for the long haul. And I hope that we disturb a few people. - Yeah. - And I hope that it's just fucking great. - What last question promise? What piece of advice would you, it can be about collaboration, but also because you got into this business so young, it can also just be about the business as a whole. We are lucky enough to have lots of people watching this podcast who are trying to figure out how to get into multiple different parts of the entertainment business, but music business specifically. What advice would you give a minor specifically? As someone who survived the music business as a minor, and you're still here kicking ass as an adult, what piece of advice would you give them? - Like if they were trying to do the same thing. Yeah, at the same age. I would say, honestly, I don't want to do some bullshit, just believe in yourselves. I would say I think it's a really beautiful thing to follow your passion and pursue your dream. I think that when you're really young, a lot of times it's hard to see. And I don't say this, it's like, I'm an adult, and I'm smarter than you. I'm saying this as someone who can really remember what it felt like to be like 15 and think that I knew exactly like who I was and what I wanted to be and what my future was going to look like. And I, of course, didn't. And I think it's really important that you follow that dream and nurture that passion while also recognizing and like really trying to let it sink in that like the way that you feel about what you're doing now will change when you look back on it and also be prepared for if you actually have success and that's great. You're going to have like a love hate relationship with that success when you're an adult whereas like I look back personally now and I feel you're gonna miss out on, like I missed out on a lot of like, quote unquote, normal experiences. And I think that if you want to follow in those footsteps, I feel like I actually made it out the other side. Pretty okay. - Yeah, you're pretty fucking awesome. - And I will say, thanks. I will say, I just think that you should be prepared to mourn the things that you missed out on without realizing that you were missing out on them. Well, also realizing that because you missed out on those things, you are able to live the life that you hopefully love now. So it is like a, it is a real balance but it obviously is possible and it will create a space where you can have a closer relationship with your fans 'cause I think it's really, really nice for other 15-year-olds, let's say, to have, to listen to an artist who's writing songs in the respect of a 15-year-old. I think that's really, really great for other people your age when they're all going through something together like that. But yeah, it's possible. It's also possible to like make it through and still be mentally stable to a point. And yeah, you just have to recognize you will have to sacrifice things as I think everyone does to really achieve their dreams. So you'll have to sacrifice things that also will lead you to not fully relate to your peers when you're older too. But then you'll find other people that you will relate to in a way and you'll laugh about how your child stars and how that's really cringe and a little bit devastating but also kind of fun. - Yeah, I love it. - And you can do it, just know that, you know, it is beautiful but it's also, it's art. - Yeah, I love it. Everybody, be a Miller. (audience applauds) - Justina Trentina. - Justina Trentina. - Watch unthings on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you then.