Be Brave, Be You

Hi, I'm Rom and you're listening to Raisin the Glass, the podcast that delivers a long serving of honesty with a dash of humour as we aim to create connections to drive inclusivity for women and allies in the drinks industry. Today we're chatting with Lottie Trageur about the balancing act of working as a parent, the impact of creating a safe environment and the importance of inspiration. Lottie is the category any comm director at Red Bull, so you know this is going to be a fascinating conversation. Keep listening to learn how your bravery, self-belief and being your authentic self can help you be a game-changer. And remember to subscribe to the show if you enjoy the content. Before we get into this episode, I just want to introduce everyone to raise in the glass. Our vision is to create meaningful connections that drive inclusivity for women and allies in the drinks industry. We strive to foster a community where diversity is celebrated, voices are heard, and opportunities are abundant. In each episode we'll share candid stories and insights from learning about the challenges faced by women in the industry to celebrating their triumphs, raising the glass is a refreshing and inspiring lesson for anyone interested in the world of drinks. By sharing stories and perspectives from a wide range of voices, we want to help break down barriers and build a more equitable future for all. Through our commitment to empowerment and collaboration, we aim to build a future where everyone feels valued, respected and supported in their journey within the drinks industry. Follow us on social media or check out www.raisingtheglas.co.uk to find out more and to stay connected for updates on our networking events. So grab a glass, settle in and join us as we raise a toast to authenticity, resilience and empowerment by raising the glass. For now though, it's about creating those connections. So without further ado, let's raise our glasses and introduce our first guest, Lottie. As well as being our first podcast, you may hear from her in future episodes as she will literally be in the wings in her capacity as co-producer. Lottie, thank you so much for being on this epic journey, which started off as a little bubbling of an idea and now here we are recording the first podcast. So I'm going to start with the first question. What drink evokes one of your strongest memories? Well, first of all, thank you ever so much for inviting me. I feel very flattered and honoured and if anyone's listening out there, thank you so much for listening to us. So I thought about this for a really long time and I've worked in soft drinks for a really long time and I'm thinking the brand and the drink that evokes the strongest memory is actually iron brew. So iron brew is an interesting one for me because I really got into it when I was pregnant, which was quite a big part of my journey as a woman in drinks and how that affects you. I think we might end up talking about that later. But I really craved iron brew when I was pregnant with my first child. I'd have iron brew, I'd have a prawn and mayonnaise sandwich and I think I had salt and vinegar walkers just to get all the brand names called out and I'd buy it actually in co-op forest hill if the team there wanted to, yeah, that I was that lady who always bought the same thing. But yeah, it was just a part of my life and it was quite interesting how much that product associates with that time in my life. But I also love iron brew because having worked in soft drinks for as long as I have, I still don't know what iron brew is, I don't actually know how I'd classify it. It's just it just is iron brew, it's not a particular flavour, it's not a particular taste, it's not, I don't think it's uncategorizable. And it's very authentic and in its own, it's like happy in its own skin. And something I've been reflecting on recently is I think I'm really entering that phase of my life now where I'm just really happy with who I am and really happy in my own skin and comfortable that this is who's on offer. And so and I wish I'd been like that sooner, which we might end up talking about, I suppose, in terms of confidence. But I just love iron brew's confidence as a brand of, you know, it's just really happy with what it is and that's how it shows up and lots of people drink it, including me when I was heavily pregnant. I hope that's fine. It is really interesting. I think this will be a question that will ask of lots of future guests. It's a really interesting question about what that do everybody will have memories that a drink can bring up and a vote. But I love the fact that if you, it's an important time, that memory that anchors back to you being pregnant. But this is me attitude that you still associate with it as well. And I know that's been an important part of your journey. Talking of journeys, our journey goes way back, Lotte. We have worked together on different sides of the table for probably more years than either of us would care to admit on a podcast that will sit in the ether forever. Did podcasts exist when we first started working together? I don't even know. Pick and mix existed, which were a highlight where we might have crossed paths. But podcasts probably did not exist when we first started out on our careers. So you had worked for Woolworths for about four years and then you moved into Red Bull, which brought you into the fantastic world of drinks. And you've been at Red Bull for about 16 years. That's right. Quite a long time. It is quite a long time and I think sometimes people see long periods in a business in the stability, but actually I'm guessing you've been through a huge amount of change from the growth that Red Bull has seen and it's almost provided you with loads of different learning opportunities. Given that you've been in the same place for that period of time, how do you learn and grow in your career? That's a really good question. So I think from my perspective, I guess the places where I most learn, I'd say twofold. One, I just love learning from other people through watching other people, listening to other people, networking with other people. I get a lot of energy off other people and their ideas. But the other thing I do is I just love throwing myself into new things and trying new things every day and being brave about those things and doing things that sometimes scare me like doing this obviously is terrifying, absolutely terrifying. But I think a day where you don't do something that slightly scares you and slightly out of your comfort zone, probably isn't a day that's taking you forward. And I've been really lucky at Red Bull because, as you say, whilst I've been here, we've been through enormous growth. I've had the opportunity to set up our first category management function, our first shop of marketing, our first e-commerce function. I've sort of been there along the journey, got to do so many incredible things. And it, you know, this place has really supported me in having that entrepreneurial outlook in life. And yeah, given, given wings, I get s to the things that I've wanted, I've wanted to do. So I feel like I've, I have never reached that point in my career yet where I'm like, this week looks a bit similar to another week because I'm just always throwing myself at new things like sitting in a podcast room with you today, which is an amazing new thing to be experiencing. And as you say, probably something that we wouldn't have pictured more than 20 years ago, a lot's changed in our industry in that time. I would really love with your background and I know you're very customer-centric, but to understand what do you think some of the trends or developments are that you will think that you think will shape the future of our industry? The future of our industry. So I think one of the reasons I particularly like working in impulse is it is so fast-paced and there is so much change and excitement. So if you think about soft drinks, it's not just new products that turn up, it's new categories that turn up within soft drinks. So energy drinks haven't always existed as a category. CBD hasn't always existed as a category that feels quite new. There are categories that we probably haven't even thought of and definitely when we started working together a long time ago, there were probably categories that we could never imagine existed within the impulse space. So I think from a category perspective, I think it's very exciting because I think the trends continue to take us to new places. What we see in the market is a movement to more and more functionality. So I think increasingly consumers are looking for finding products that help them get more out of life, whether that's supporting them with their gut health or supporting them to feel calm at the end of the day or supporting them to maximise an opportunity or like when they're about to run a big race or for me it's just managing to get through the day with two children and manage to make a big race. That is an enormous marathon of a race. So yeah, I think I see a big movement towards functionality in the soft drinks space, which is really exciting. and a great room for innovation for a number of brands. You talked about your children there. Tell me a little bit about what family means to you. So, I. Well, so look, I think. I was always a person who was very, very ambitious, who was quite happy working all hours, and very proud of myself if I was at Woolie's at the end of the day and the lights go out, because I'm still working. And, you know, that hard-core work ethic, when I had children, I thought, "Well, it'll be easy." Then you just. You carry on working that hard, and you put your children in nursery, and then you get back on the horse. Do you know what? I think having children was one of the most important things that has ever. And will ever happen to me, obviously, because they're incredible, and wonderful, and I love my boys. But also, I think it really caused me to have a moment of reflection in my life about what was important, and actually reevaluate what was going to matter in my existence as a human being on this planet. And they've re. My kids have really grounded me, and really helped me understand who I want to be, how I want to leave the world in a better place, leave the industry in a better place, leave the employment market in a better place if I'm lucky enough to have that impact. And yeah, I think for me, family represented a big, huge moment in my life, in me figuring out what that all meant. You introduce that in a. Probably naivety, but a lot of people go through of, you know, "Children will come into my life, and I'll manage it, and I'll come back to work, and I'll just get back on the horse." How was that immersion back into work for you in the drinks industry at that time? Well, I think I'm going to be a bit vulnerable here and really talk about it, because I think that's important. And I think that's important, because I don't necessarily believe people talk about it enough. For me personally, it was really, really hard, and that's not to do with the sector. I think that was a lot to do with me. When I had my first son, Leo, it totally, not me for six, in terms of what I was and who I stood for, and it almost. It was quite challenging, because you. It's almost like an identity crisis, because you're. Hopefully it's okay to share this, but like for me, I was so clear on who I was before, and it's just like, "I'm going to be really successful in my career and just go as far as I can." And then suddenly, I've got this fragile human being in my arms that, you know, I can't survive without my body. You know, it's quite an incredible connection that us women get to have with our children. And suddenly you're like, "Well, I have to give everything to him." You know, he couldn't possibly survive if I wasn't there, holding him. And then you're suddenly like, "But how do these two human beings co-exist?" And for me, it was a real crisis, actually. And I think, you know, people talk about post-natal depression. I definitely went through that, and I definitely, you know, for me at that point, I got, I actually decided to take some additional support with some talking therapy and use the people around me at that point because, which I hope it's okay to share, but like I just do. From my perspective, I had a total identity crisis at that point because I loved who I was as a mother, and I loved who I was as I thought a fledgling business leader at that point. And I couldn't understand in my brain how these two people could co-exist. It's like someone had just chopped me in half. And I loved my job, and I loved my son, and how could I make those two things work? And talking to other women, I think lots of people go through that. And sometimes, do we feel brave enough to talk about it? Because the main thing we want to do is, you know, not lose the peg of the ladder we were on when we left. We don't want anyone to see any weakness in us now. We've had children. You know, and it is a real human. It's a biological experience. It does chemically change you. It doesn't change how smart and useful and valuable you were to the industry before, but you have chemically been changed. And I think, yeah, for me, I had to work through what that meant. And in working through what that meant, you've been very open and vulnerable, and I agree with you. As well as being open and vulnerable, I think you've been very brave, because I do agree there is a need to talk about this. I think lots of people will relate. No matter how your children have come into your life, I think there is a lot of that time as parents where you have that challenge of this, this is the way you feel about this individual is almost indescribable and that balance and that, and then to your point, you're going through that identity crisis of what does it mean? How was it for you working that through with your company? I think the funny thing that happens on maternity leave is for me personally, I didn't keep in contact, perhaps as much as some of members of my team have done since then. I felt very scared to have those conversations, but then when I did have those conversations, it was fine. And that's the weird thing. Like, I think my company, and I hope this is true of lots of people, were so supportive and so excited to have me back. And I went down to four days when I came back the first time after my second son, I then decided to do something completely different in the organization and go down to three days. But initially, you're just sat there on your own on a sofa with a little baby thinking, oh my goodness, what do I do now? And you're not dressed in your business attire, you're not feeling as smart, you're probably covered in all sorts of baby fluids. And you think, well, how on earth do I start having that conversation with my employer? I think I didn't have enough people to talk to about that at the time, which is something I regret, and I hope that I can offer more, and I try already to offer more as I move forward. But I think companies are, in my experience has been really, really positive. So I'm very, very, very lucky. But it doesn't mean I expected it to be positive because I felt so vulnerable at that time. - I think the conversation points really important, and the intent behind what we're doing is to drive those connections and those conversations and surface some of this up. And I think you're right, having those conversations can sometimes be part of the challenge. I think there's also another challenge that I certainly felt of, I came back after maternity leave, a completely different person. And the way my brain had worked, similar to you, I was doing very well. I knew how to do my job really well. I went off and had a baby. I came back and from day one, people expected your back off you go, and not a word of a lie, by the time I'd got to the office, I'd run that race you were speaking about of that parenting reason of getting a child into nursery and how I felt emotionally about that and getting across to the office and then doing a day's work. And I think my experience was a learning of slowing down and almost giving parents when they're coming back from parental leave the time to land softly as you would with any new start in a business. Because however long you have off on that parental leave, there is still a seismic change that can happen. And I think if we could get more businesses to meet the people at the door of how they are when they come back today, that would help. It's interesting because you can talk about lots of things that have changed your life coming back from maternity leave, the big things, but you also talked about relating to I am brew and being comfortable with who you are. You talk a lot about your desire, your success, your ambitions to driving in that place to be able to continue to keep going. You talked about that belief of being first in last out mentality. Where does that drive and that success and that striving to be ambitious come from? - When I was growing up, we weren't particularly wealthy family, sort of, you know, which meant that there's lots of things that my children have that I don't think I had growing up as opportunities. So I think I've always been of this mindset that I need to make the most of every opportunity I have because I don't have quite as many opportunities as I think it's growing up, that sounds awful. My mum was brilliant, but I couldn't necessarily do it expensive clubs and classes that my boys get to do. And I think I just always had this desire to just make the most of every single opportunity. And that meant that at school, I was just very driven to do the best I possibly, could and I am very competitive but because I want to see the best I can make of every single opportunity that presents itself to me. So yeah, I think I've always just thought well how big can I make this how successful can this project be, how good could this piece of work be and it drives me on. Yeah, I don't truly know. I think some people are just, I think it is just how I'm wide, my son is actually very, very horribly competitive which presumably he gets from me and it's, I sometimes feel very bad about it. But yeah, I just, I just strive to be the best I can be and make the most of every single opportunity that presents itself which is probably why I found that mix of being a parent of a very, very small child and trying to be really successful in my career at the same time, quite a mindset challenge because I'd been used to being able to just like turn the dial up to 11 on, you know, on a daily basis, on a daily basis on just one thing and just say this is the thing that I'm going to be the best at and get really good at and I realise that I'm going to have to maybe have both dials at five because I wanted to be really good at one thing and really good at another and and it's interesting because if you think about that analogy, I think that's one of the challenges we have as parents, men and women moving forward is, is, is how do you get the balance right between all those things in your life that are important and that's been a learning journey for me for sure. I think we need to start talking about those choices and that balance rather than an either or and I think we've seen some either or and now is a time where actually I think we need to find our voices to talk about actually, how do we create those balance for everybody to be able to thrive in those situations. A hundred percent and I just think for too long the industry has lost incredible talent I think by not being able to offer those opportunities and flexibilities to people. I see so not from this company but in the sector I see brilliant women leave the work place or leave their industries and do other projects because they just can't find a way of doing what they were doing before in a way they're both dials at five anymore and that you know when you think about it even just for the economy that's terrible we've got these incredible talents that we lose when we don't offer the right ways to support them. How do you personally feel about being a woman in the drinks industry? So I think I thought I think I'll think about this question in two ways. First of all I love retail and I love the drinks industry and I love impulse. I absolutely adore it. I think drinks is such a vibrant category there's so much going on there's so much innovation there's incredible brands the buying teams that we work with a phenomenal the shopkeepers up and down the country and the bar owners that sell drinks you know I just think such brilliant vibrant communities and I feel lucky every single day to come to work. I think being a woman in the drink sector I think is I guess I've only had an experience of it at a certain time and my experience is tainted by that moment right so my experience of being a woman in impulse has actually been like if I think about the people I've worked for and their boss and their bosses boss and their bosses boss and all the way up to owners and shareholders of companies. I have a lot of very many women you know and that's not that there's not women out there but statistically surely I should have worked for more women by now. In the last 16 years maybe it's six or 17 maybe the last 18 years I've not had any female managers above me right. I've worked for brilliant men so this isn't a criticism but I've not worked for any women for such a long time so being a woman in drinks for me during this moment I felt this ridiculous level of responsibility to be a woman working in my sector and be visible and for someone for my team and future teams and other people around the organisations or in sector to be visible not as a role model not because I'm doing it perfectly or rally and not because people would necessarily want to be me but just as an example of another woman doing it and I think I do think and maybe I've just been really really unlucky but I think I've not worked for enough women has been my experience of working in the drink sector. I know loads of brilliant ones I've just not been lucky enough to work for any of them at this point and there is that that whole saying if I can't see me how can I be me but also that bit of how lucky we are to know loads of great women and I've I've been truly privileged on this journey to have been supported by some absolute cheerleaders which makes the journey a lot easier but you're right there is still that statistical probability that you're talking about which probably poses another question linked that of based on how you feel and the role you're trying to play in terms of leaving a ladder what's the best bit of advice that you would share? It's really important to me that we create environments that anyone can thrive in right? So we just want the best possible talent and whatever team we're operating in as leaders and it's very important for me as a leader I think to make sure I'm vocal about the fact that I'm up for creating those environments even if sometimes that is not straightforward or easy right? So the easiest thing is just recruiting someone who's always there at 8.30 and can always stay late if they need to or can always you know be there all the time but that's not real life that's not real life at all and actually some of the most talented people might not be able to make it into the office till 9.30 because they've got a school drop off or some of the most talented people might need to always work at home on a third day because they're a kid plays football and they want to be part of that. All of my examples seem to be children based so far but I think there's all sorts of things like I definitely see lots of people take on caring responsibilities as they get older as well within their careers and like you know is it that there is a certain time every week you need to be available for something else? I'm very open to flexible working requests I never want someone to not apply for a job because they're only going to work four days a week you know I want people to feel like they can have that conversation with me rather than being a scary people manager who's like it's this way or no way and I think for me leaving a ladder is partly a jet boat just being smart enough to be adaptable enough to create environments where more people can succeed because that's our job as people lead us. What's one lesson your jobs taught you that you think everybody should learn at some point in their life? I think my biggest lesson that I've learnt from working that I wish I'd had sooner was to be braver right and I think sometimes and I don't know whether it's more a female thing than a male thing I think it's statistic I see it more in women than men sometimes we're shy of our own opinions about bringing them to the table and what my experience of work has been if I am brave enough and I truly believe in an idea enough and I'm brave enough to bring it to the table the reaction can be brilliant and you know like that doesn't mean that all my ideas are great for sure I like having a discussion it good thanks for the feedback with the laughing but I think you know I think being brave enough to bring your ideas at the table and not feeling so vulnerable that you're just too shy to bring it forward I wish I'd done it more sooner you know everything you know everything you are the reason you are in the job you are in whoever you are listening is because you know someone has identified that talent in you be brave and use it you're talented be brave tell people your ideas talk them through you know absolutely you are brave what you what you think matters and is valuable to your organisation and other organisations that you work with for anybody listening who's got that inner voice of maybe I shouldn't say it that we've all felt those moments haven't we and I think it's sometimes very easy to say it out of the moment you know just just be brave just you know you're your valid your valuable all of that but I think there is also that element of the way you talk about if I'm if I'm brave and if I believe enough if you believe enough you have a out. a right and possibly from your business's point of view and need to socialise that idea and actually doing it in the right way, in the collaborative way and bringing people on the journey makes that idea that you had even bigger and potentially makes an even bigger impact and truly makes a difference. So probably a top tip there of breathing deep and find your voice. I'm going to ask in a different type of question which is what's the best question that you have ever been asked? I think the best questions I always get are from people who haven't stopped being brave yet and those people are children. Yes. Children, don't hold back with their questions. They don't think is this the right time to ask this or not and I think being able to ask why a million times is what children are the best at and it's actually one of the things we get less and less good at I think as time goes on. And so I'm not going to give you a specific example but I think the best questions I get are from people who are just brave enough to put themselves out there and say but why and in my experience it's usually children who are quite no holds bars on that. If we could hold on to that natural curiosity of children and just anchor back to it a bit more and I think it might go back to the bit we were just talking about around that bravery and if I'm asking why does it mean that I don't know into somebody else you can again get into a whole mindset of what that means but I agree and it's not just why once it's why why why why why and that's where some of the magic happens. Yeah, 100%. Who inspired you or who was the most influential person during the early stages of your career? So I talked before about the fact I've not worked for many women and I also come from a background where my mum didn't have, it didn't work like this, she was a carer and none of the women in my family had ever worked in, I didn't have any role models in my formative years when I got to Woolworths when I first started out there was a woman that headed up our team, the head of in store or the head of in store brand I don't know and I'm not going to give her surname but Jill from Woolworths everyone who's listening from Woolworths background will know who that is. She was so inspirational to me because she was everything that I wanted to be in a female leader. She was smart, she was creative, she was innovative, she didn't take any shit, she was really strong and resilient and empowered but she was kind and she knew her people and she protected her people and if you work inside a retailer and you work for the brand team you've got all the commercial team wanting to do all this stuff and not all of that stuff is necessarily the right thing to do for that retail brand and you've got everything in the marketing team wanted you're right in the hub of it all and you're managing all this complex conflict within an organisation and she was just phenomenal and she had two children under five and I just she's the first woman I'd ever really met in that sort of role and I was like wow that is, that's it isn't it that's if I could just be and if I ever am, culture the woman she was like that's it that is how to do it and she just she inspired me so much and I probably should have said more at the time I fully you know I've I've sent her a note before I recorded this but she she was so inspirational she was really she didn't pretend to be someone she wasn't she was absolutely authentic she was living the complex life of being being a mum and and doing a really important job within a retailer and she was phenomenal at it and she was funny and she's like it's great to be in a business and look up and go car that'd be great I'd love to be her one day and not just be that job but like any you know I'd be really proud of myself if that was the sort of personalities and and you know if that's how I am related with an organization I think you're right that bit of when I grow up and spoiler alert I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up but when I grow up that that bit of it's not that job it's I would like to be like that yeah and I think those behaviors that we see more that we talk about more and that we understand the impact more can be really powerful I don't necessarily remember any specific meeting it's weird because people say what do you you know when you're having a meeting when you're going to do a presentation to someone what is it you're going to say well the most important thing is how they feel afterwards and I still feel how I feel about that person I probably can't even remember a single sentence because it's such a long time ago but the the sense I get is that that incredible feeling of someone where I was so inspired we're going to change tax lately change the tables and I'm going to give you another question which is what one question would you want to ask me a self referential question that's quite exciting what meta right I've confused myself in that sentence alone so who's doing what I would like to know what was the spark that made you have the idea to launch racing with us I have had a number of opportunities in my career when I could have called something out called something in done something different and I've had the privilege in my career to be able to do some things that I think are centered around diversity inclusion equality equity and I'm really proud and really proud of those moments and really proud of people who have supported me to allow me to make change about a year and a bit ago I started working in the drinks industry and I had those moments of amazing I mean genuinely what an amazing industry to be a part of huge upskilling huge learning curve still on that huge learning curve and I think we'll probably be on it forever and then I started looking around to my left and my right and felt there wasn't perhaps the representation there and I was actually at an awards event and there really was a lack of female representation sat around the tables and I was lucky enough to connect with some women that evening and they're still you haven't seen here you hear before and you kind of have a bit of a conversation and there was a bubbling of you know that there's still something that needs to be done and the drinks industry has done loads in this space there's women in beer events women in wine but there are still statistics that are alarming and this isn't just a piece about representation to be seen this is a piece about whether you work in the on trade the off trade whatever category of drinks there are still statistics that say some people do not feel safe at work some people do not feel respected at work some people do not feel safe at work do not feel seen at work and I looked to my left and to my right and went why am I looking to my left and to my right let's do something about this let's do something that drives the change and what if we brought all those voices together and what if we created an environment where it is safe to have the conversations and what if we created an environment where everybody wants to get in the room women and allies and being very open that this is learning as we go and that's what we do best we come up with an idea we create it and it will evolve but having had that spark and being able to reach out to my network and my cheerleaders of who let you behind the scenes lot of you as one of them and saying I've had this spark what do you think and that brave moment and that bit about socialising the idea what do you think and the unanimous response of let's go made me realise that if just us lot with saying yes there's something here there may be by setting it up in the right way and driving as much ambition to create those connections that we can create the space and this movement that turns the dial marginal gains and leaves the ladder because it is about building that legacy and leaving the ladder. For me I think I think just being able to hear voices whether it's through methodology like a podcast or a couple to an event or just read about it it's so great to see this movement not just in this area of diversity and inclusion but across the board and I just think, as you say, it's like representation, seeing examples, seeing people that, you know, you're like that person, I feel a connection with, that makes me feel like I know where my next step could be and I understand a little bit about myself and my path better as a result of listening to that person. So thank you, I would say, thank you just on behalf of all your listeners, thank you very much because I certainly, you know, I'm a, as you say, I'm a big fan of the idea. More people being part of it, helps to amplify the voice and that bit around marginal gains at Shijunee, what 20 years ago, we probably had a conversation about this 20 years ago, Lottie. The marginal gains is, we've managed to get to a place where we both feel brave enough and comfortable enough our authentic selves now to say, but let's put it out there and let's hope it changes things for the future. So it probably means that it's time to head towards our final question as we start to wrap up our first podcast of raising the glass. So Lottie, who would you raise a glass to because of the impact that they have had on you? So, well, I guess I've already talked about Jill and I would definitely like to raise a glass to Jill if she's ever listening to this because she was phenomenal and so supportive of me and really backed me early on in my career. But I'd also like to raise a glass to my mum and I think that I doubt I'll be original in that, you know, I think it's only by becoming a parent that myself that I've fully understood, you fully understand finally what your parents were going through. And, you know, my mum was a care of someone with level three autism and putting up with me as well at the same time. And, you know, and she managed to keep the ship going and we've all turned out brilliantly and I'm just me and her are so completely different in what we've done in our lives. But she has helped me up the ladder herself and always backed me with everything I've done and been such a supporter even though like I like, you know, I think, you know, she's trained to be a teacher and things like that. We're totally from different sectors but I just think having those cheerleaders in your life, yeah, I'm thank you mum obviously. Thank you, Lottie's mum. You smashed it. Lottie, huge thanks for being on the podcast today. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much. So hopefully you've enjoyed today's episode. If we've peaked your interest and you feel you might have found your tribe, we have our first networking event on the 18th of July. Tickets are available now via eventbrite, just search, raising the glass. So that's us all wrapped up. If you have enjoyed the conversation, please like and subscribe. We'll be back in your ears next episode but for now, let's all raise the glass, build the legacy and leave the ladder. [Music] Raising the glass, a podcast bought you from the podcasting suite at Red Bull.