BCLP senior partner Segun Osuntokun on growth, mergers and weekend emails

Welcome back to the podcast. My guest today is Shagun Osentoken, senior partner at BCLP. Shagun has spent more than three decades in city law, including leadership roles through some of the most significant changes in the firm's history. From the BLP Brian Cave merger in 2018 through to BCLP's recent return to growth. We talk about what it takes to lead a global law firm while still fearning as a litigation partner. The lessons he learned from the firm's transatlantic merger and why he thinks too much of the discussion around US versus UK law firm cultures misses the point. We also get into mental health, leadership, firm strategy, and where Shagun sees the legal market heading next. I really enjoyed the conversation, and I hope you do too. Thank you to LaGoura for sponsoring the Numbillable Podcast. LaGoura is the agentic operating system for legal work, supporting lawyers in research, review, and drafting across complex matters. With the launch of LaGoura AOS, its agent now drives legal execution end-to-end, handling the work from start to finish while lawyers retain oversight and make the decisions that matter. Trusted by more than 1200 leading law firms and in-house teams across more than 50 markets, LaGoura is setting the standard for how great legal work gets done. You can find out more at laGoura.com. Shagun, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. It's a real pleasure to get you on. It's a pleasure to be here, Oliver. Now, look, first thing I wanted to ask you then was, could you tell us a little bit about your journey to becoming BCLP's senior partner? I'll give you a potted biography. I was born in Nigeria, start at the beginning, and I have lived in England since I was sent to boarding school to do my A-levels at the age of 15. After my A-levels, I stayed on and went to university, did two degrees, one at Queen Mary London in economics, and then I did a law degree at Bayleyville College, Oxford. And after that, when straight into city law, trained at Wildsat, which those of a certain vintage will remember, which is our past sentence. Even I remember that one. And after Wildsat, I had a brief stint at Ever Shed before joining what then became a DLA Piper. I made partner in DLA Piper in 2003. Was there when de Blokton also, DLA did its three-way merger to become DLA Piper. I then moved to BCLP, the LP as it was then was in 2008. And I have been at BCLP since then, just over 18 years. I go, I have been in the role of senior partner since the start of 2024. So I am two and a half years into that role. It's a four-year term. Prior to that, I was the UK managing partner for BCLP for five years. Those are my leadership roles. You've had what, seven plus years sort of in leadership roles. Are you sort of feigning again as senior partner or? I am feigning. I have always feigned. The leadership at BCLP is comprises partners who are also practicing partners. Our global CEO, Steve Valmer, is the only partner in our leadership structure who doesn't have a feigning requirement. Everybody else has to do the age or as well as the leadership thing. How do you find that balancing the two? I wouldn't have any other way. It's challenging because it does mean you are spinning plates in more ways than one. I think we're all spinning plates. And for me, it's spinning plates both as a partner, feigning, as well as doing the management thing. But it stretches you and if you have an interesting leadership then you want to bring what you know as a feigning partner to that as well. So you became senior partners, you said, 2024. I wanted to ask them how's business because when you look at BCLP's performance recently, revenue and profits were up last year, weren't they? After a few more challenging years, fair to say, post-merger, what's been the key drivers behind that? Tell me more. So the results we had in 2025, which you rightly point out were a strong set of results, that was the outcome of the fruit of many, it wasn't just one year's thing. It was a multi-year, multidisciplinary, multi-pronged strategy around growth markets, growth sectors, embedding a substantial client relationship management program. And it came together in a way that we knew it would and is continuing to do this year. So last year we had good increases across different metrics, profit by equity partner, revenue, revenue per lawyer. And to me it was satisfying, but not in any way complacency inducing to see that a plan was coming together in a way that as I said we knew it would. So we have a go-to-market sector focus program where we have designated for a few years now five key sectors as our priority sectors, sports, media, entertainment, food and agribusiness, real estate, financial institutions and energy transition. Well, we have a long tail of other sectors, but by bringing our focus energy and resources to bail on those sectors, we've seen the fruits of that. Clients like to be welcomed, spoken to by people who know their industry, as well as being experts in litigation, and a private equity or whatever it is. So what we think investing in a sector focused approach is it just makes absolutely business sense. And that's not to say we ignore the practice-led focus as well. We see great growth in areas in my area of litigation, you know, antitrust, white collar crime, big cross-border investigations on the transactional side, M&A, mid-market M&A, private equity, real estate, which has always been a mainstay of our business here. And on the client relationships side, the client growth program side, it is again just doing, being more intentional about how we grow certain client relationships and demonstrating that when you put in the effort into growing client relationships in a meaningful systematic way, it pays dividends, especially on the platform. How do you sort of pitch the firm then if you're pitching it to a potential client, let's say, because I've always thought of BCLP as a very sort of traditional kind of full service corporate law firm. As you said, really strong in sort of corporate M&A, real estate, litigation, probably hasn't made the same emphasis some other kind of transatlantic US firms on private capital being the center of everything. How do you pitch the firm? Well, I would pitch the firm as a firm that is there's client driven. We have our strapped line being client intelligent and I like that strapped line because we look at what our clients require from international law firm, we're unique in our culture, so we are collaborating all the time to bring the best of the firm to our clients. And we are, you talked about not having a distinguishing ourselves by having a big play on corporate or big play on financial institutions, but I think what I've just described to you is that we are a broad based transatlantic law firm that runs the gamut of all the areas and sectors that our clients would like to see their legal advisors have expertise in. So I would definitely lead with the cultural piece, I'll lead with the approach we take to our clients and bring into bear that intentional focus on key sectors, key practice areas, whether it's in litigation, real estate, financial transactions. So that's the way I would pitch it to, and that's the way we pitch it to clients. We're still very much, we are true, full service, we have that big transatlantic scale, that's the play. Exactly. So talk to me, tell me about it, because obviously you've been in a leadership role since 2018 when you were London managing partners, you said. So you've overseen the firm merged in 2018. Tell me a little bit about that, what are some of the lessons you take from a merger like that, from a UK, US law firm merger? Obviously it's super topical right now, I mean as we're recording today Taylor Westings merger has gone live, hasn't it? I would say the key lesson is, it's all about the clients. It is all about the clients. It is the resonant debt to river any law firm or any strategic. initiative being a lateral growth or combination has always got to be what do our clients really want from us and can we deliver that in a better, more seamless way if we have this platform we're aspiring to. And I think that's what led the BCL, the BLP, BC merger. So I think that relentless focus on how do you make this platform work? Most of the forum was for your clients. If it works for your clients it will work for your partners. And I think the work that does need to go in, it's easy to state that proposition but then you then have to build the systems around it. And you and I both know that the business of law is simple but it isn't easy. So you do need to build the infrastructure around that which will mean you have a good business services platform. That is efficient, that is cost effective, that runs the gamut of all the offices in which you are based. You have your partners who are the owners of the business talking to each other in a way that is good for the business in the sense that they are collaborating and if you like subsuming their own sovereignty for the greater good, the essence of a partnership is collaboration. How do you make, how do you put together these individuals in a way that they are committed to giving their all for something which is more than just that themselves. So that's the hard work. I think it was one of the first transatlantic modes, it was correct me if I were wrong where there was full financial integration from day one, that was the idea. So shared profit pool, everything fully integrated. Talk to me a little bit about that because again it's kind of topical isn't it, we saw DLA recently get rid of its for Ryan's structure to go full integration. But you were one of the first to do that. I'm sure there are some opportunities there obviously but also comes with some probably more challenging integration issues, doesn't it? And when people ask me about this I always say people go for Ryan's for a good reason because it does avoid certain hurdles. But our view is if you want to unlock the power of a partnership and deliver to your clients in the way that you believe best serves them then you want all your partners to be in the same economic unit. And going back to what I said about building systems around your primary focus, having a system that recognizes the efforts partners put in, wherever they are in our firm I think is critical to that. There's a lot of ways to be a partner in a firm that did have one of a better expression, economic silos. And it solves a number of problems but it creates others. So I can understand why many firms are or some firms are considering how to break down those economic walls because I think having everybody in the same boat rowing in the same direction is a powerful way of not just because of the sentiment but also because of the reality that you all share in the same pie. How would you describe the difference between the kind of American big law mindset and the London or the city big law mindset? You can describe American society generally in a particular way and for the tend to be caricatures you see. I was student of history so I can say well look the America is all about the loan, the pushing out the frontiers, go west, be your own people, do your own thing. And then I think well actually in order to do that you might have that interperenery spirit but I can tell you that you wouldn't be lacking in that same interperenery spirit in many parts of Great Britain or London. That's what drives us. So I don't want to fall into the stereotypical US versus the rest of the world or the European gentility versus something else. I just don't think that I don't think it plays out in the way you run a global institution. Yes of course you're aware of cultural differences. You would whether you're in New York or London or Singapore or Hong Kong, you will always have those differences culturally but I think the business underlying a global law firm like us tends to transcend most of those differences in the way we do our work and we communicate with our clients. So what would your advice be to any of the current law firm leaders who are having to you know integrate two firms going through a transatlantic merger? I mean I don't want you to give too many secrets away here, show you another way but what would my number one advice be? It would simply be understand what your clients want from you because you must have thought about that before you put before you went into a combination. So understanding what your clients want from you and how your new platform can best serve those clients by harnessing the resources you have and pointing it in the right direction towards those clients needs. So what does your day look like Ben as a senior part? Well my day today is a mix of leadership management, tasks, reactions, responses and getting on with my client work. So I tend to be a tri-tube, a structured about it. I literally divide my day into two. I've got a fantastic EA who helps me manage my diary and I have the mornings which I demarcate as client only time and we have a protocol as to what can be what can be nicked from that time to give to other non-client facing things. And then the afternoon I will say okay this is going to be more meetings, calls, especially calls with the US which may be in the evenings. How sort of all encompassing is it then, Chegun, you know, being a senior partner of a big global law firm like BCLP? It is a lot but it's not so much that you don't have a life that includes more than just your role as senior partner. I think that it is, I think that you do a better job by having those different perspectives and different interests. So I make time every morning, you know, I have a meditation practice which is, which I don't discard when the going gets tough, that's when I really, really rely on it. I'm on a seven year dual-lingo streak learning French. So I try and incorporate that as well. Learning something new, challenging myself, having fun along the way. I like running so I just did the London marathon last month, it was my first ever marathon. But I do a parker on those Saturdays when I'm around. I read, listen to podcasts, fiction, nonfiction history, I love philosophy because I think that you can teach us so much about how to live life in a constantly changing volatile, uncertain ambiguous, complex world. So I think that there is, the, the, the, the, being senior partner just, to me, adds to the richness of my life and I, I. I, I, I, I really should. Now one of the things I wanted to ask you, Shagun, was I remember a couple of years ago, you did an interview, I think it was with the telegraph. I think it was. And one of the things you, that you said in that interview is you said that you, I, I'm not, I can't remember if it was a sort of firm wide policy or not, it was about not encouraging partners, not to send non-urgent emails at weekends. Okay, and I remember it got quite a lot of sort of traction and it, you know, it sparked a discussion in the industry. Do you, do you remember that? I do, I do remember it. I do remember it as slightly non-plast because I thought I was, I thought I was, in the context of what I was saying was, I thought it was, I thought it was relatively uncontroversial. And what I said is maybe because I'm, I'm such a, a bit of a lulladite. But I, I said that I discovered that you could do your delayed delivery email. You had delayed delivery on your, on your emails. And I, I thought that was just fantastic. So I could spend time working at the weekend, but I could delay delivery onto Monday. Stuff which didn't need to be seen on Saturday or Sunday. And that's all I was, that was a context in which I was, I was, I was making that, that remark. And yeah, I still do that because, you know, we all work at different hours. We all, you know, my, my three children have grown up. So they don't need, they don't need me around them as much as they did when they were younger. So I have, I have more free time at the weekends. And I do spend some time, you know, working. And there will be emails which is, I'm catching up on stuff from early end of week. And I will think about, well, does the the person I'm sending this to, do they need to see this at the weekend knowing that we all for good or for ill are checking our emails and an email from the senior partner on the Saturday may have a different, may need a different reaction than than others. I just figured it was just good, it was just courteous more than anything else. If people didn't need their weekends intruded upon, then why do it? It wasn't a firm, this isn't a policy in stone at BCLP then. No, to me it was just simply something that was, that just, it was good, again, an example of good compassionate leadership. So obviously that plays into a topic which is obviously very, very salient still and quite rightly, you know, mental health within the profession. What's your approach to mental health? How do you think about it? How important is that as a topic at BCLP? It's critical in the sense that we as human beings, we have this amazing function of our consciousness and minds through which we mediate all our interactions with reality and the health of that, of that medium is key to the way we work. And so for me, both personally I know as BCLP, it's something that we take very seriously. We do have systems around encouraging the mental well-being of our people, we have a well-being board, we have mental health first aiders, we will raise mental health awareness, we have the mental health awareness week a month, I think last month a month before. So, you know, to me, in a people business, in a sustainable people business, keeping, keeping people well mentally is to not, it's a non-negotiable because that's the only way you are able to ensure that the services, the client for services you are providing is as sharp as it could be, not just from a business perspective but also from the individual perspective. Do you think lawyers work too much? I think that we have demanding jobs, I think we have we inhabit an ecosystem where things are the speed of communication and the volume of communication is as grown exponentially. I'm not going to bore you with tales of oh, when I was an article clerk and you sent a letter out and it took you know two weeks to a response to come and you know in between you put your feet up and of course now with the advent of email and everything else. So, I do think that there is a demanding job and clients sometimes understandably want and require services which mean that we need to work in order to meet those requirements. So, I think I don't think it's just lawyers, I think that we need to confront the reality that we are all dealing in all our different professions and occupations with more and more demands on our time and increasingly on our attention and that's where I think mental, good mental health training and support really does come in. How you maintain your resilience and your wellbeing not just at work but also more generally. Okay, good stuff. So, look, maybe just zoom out a bit for a second then, Cheg and get your sort of strategy back on. I just wanted to ask you, what's your take on where things are headed in, you know, in terms of the business of big law? We mentioned it a little earlier, you know, there's a sort of wave of transatlantic mergers we're seeing. It feels to me like we're now in a place where you're either sort of chasing scale as a law firm or you're saying no, we are, you know, the go to for x, y or z whatever it is. So, you know, you're either a Kirkland or you're a, you know, like a Quinnan manual or a slaughter in May or a Wachtel or something like that. What do you think about that? I think that we're likely to see more and more change. I think the scale at some level always matters because you need a decent amount of scaling which to make, you know, make the investments you need to make to drive your business. But it's, I mean, scale is, scale is relative and you need to, what you need to do is, is having set your strategies to how you want to serve your clients, ask yourself the hard questions about, you know, are we the right size and shape to deliver that service? Now, you know, BCLB's position in the market is quite clear, you know, we are, we know the clients we have that we want to keep and we want to get, we know the services we want to provide and we will be relentless in our focus on that. So, there is a lot going on that you can't control Oliver. Who was it who talked about your circle of influencing, your circle of control, your circle of concern? And your circle of concern was always going to be much wider than your circle of influencing, your circle of control. And what you want to do is try and expand as much to the circle of control and push it out as far as you can. So, my focus, I don't have focus is what is it that we can really control here and what things can be influenced. So, I'd rather focus, I'd rather have that as my, as my, as what occupies my mind, knowing that there are more things I can be concerned about who's getting bigger, who's getting smaller, but what are the things that we can control and really drive our energies towards that? And what does that look like for BCLB over the next 12, 24 months? What can we expect? Well, I think you can certainly expect us continue to deliver on the strategy which I'd landed at the start, you know, double down on our growth sector programme, our client development programme, our practice areas, their mid-market M&A, private equity, real estate, antitrust, white collar crime, big ticket litigation, and in the key markets where we are based, you know, the US obviously being one, one of the key driver of legal services in the world, we want to make sure that we are making the right investments there. London is our largest, is largest office in the firm, so I want to make sure that as an engine 80s also humming as well, and that is the combination of being more efficient in the work we deliver as well as attracting, you know, people who want to join us to further their careers. So, I think we will, we will, I want to see us, you know, use last year and the previous year where we were making incremental improvements in our financial performance. Continue to do that, and that is what I think there will be, you can certainly be looking forward to. And at the kind of macro level, what are you seeing in terms of, you know, where the activity is, because, you know, still we've had this war in the Middle East, which has definitely put a dampener on sort of capsule markets activity and deal making things like that, but then, you know, normally, you know, you tend to see, you know, an uptick in disputes work and contentious things and things. Is that what you're saying? Well, we're seeing, you know, we're still seeing strong growth across all our departments. The Duke, Duke politics is obviously going to weigh on our client's minds as he does weigh on our minds, but our pipe mind so far this year is that we're not, we're not, we're not seeing any, you know, fall off a cliffhedge and we're confident that the growth will continue this year as it is last year. Okay, thanks so much for joining me. It's been a pleasure.