Basement: Marc D'Antonio | UFO Propulsion, The Fifth Dimension, and 40 Billion Habitable Worlds

Today we've got Mark D'Antonio. He's an astronomer, MUFON's chief photo and video analyst, and the CEO of a visual effects company that builds stuff for Hollywood and defense contractors. He also co-developed a UFO detection camera system with Douglas Trumbull. He's the guy who did the visual effects for 2001, Blade Runner, Star Trek, Close Encounters. I mean, he's a legend. Yeah, so he gets paid to analyze UFO footage and make UFO footage. It's like hiring a counterfeiter to authenticate money. I love it. At nine years old, Mark had a missing time experience on a school field trip. He came home terrified of the night sky. So what did he do? He asked his parents for a telescope. He turned that fear into a career. So the aliens scared him and his response was, I'm going to find you. It's not a career, that's revenge. This guy's like nerdy Charles Bronson. Today we're covering exoplanets, how life spreads across the universe, and what might happen to us. This is what Mark heard on a Navy submarine that the government won't talk about. I always spend some time with semen. Stop that. What? And Mark has a theory that might explain how UFOs actually move without engines. And I'm telling you, it's a good theory and backed by real science. There's also a three-night encounter at his house involving knocking, a flash of light, and something in his sinus that he can't explain. And neither could his doctor. It sounds like his doctor skipped the alien biology classes in med school, huh? I had a great time hanging out with Mark. He's super smart and also very funny. And I'll prove it. Let's go down to the basement. Mark, welcome to the basement. Wow, AJ. So good to be here. Thank you. I'm so excited to have you here. It's so much fun. It was a great time. Long time coming, right? It was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really cool. Good to be here. Thanks, man. So you have a super long resume and a very wide. breadth of experience. But I want to start with age nine, got your lunch, you get on the school bus. Oh, okay. We're going there now. Let's do it. Okay. So hey, so check this out. Age nine, you're in third grade. Hey, you're excited. You're going on a field trip to a pond. Yeah. Okay. How much fun, right? I got my mother gave me a bag lunch with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and some of those fluorescent orange crackers with peanut butter in them, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I get on the bus with my bag lunch, my hand. Okay. And I sit down to see, you know, making the squeaky sounds in your shorts because I was wearing shorts. It's near the end of the year. Okay. And we get to the pond. We're all getting off the bus. Next thing you know, I'm getting back on the bus. Wait, what's going on? I still have my bag lunch. I'm holding it the same way. Okay. And the kids are bouncing around like, what's going on? So I say, when are we going to the pond? And they turn and look and they're like, ah, you idiot. You know how kids are. Slap, push. Punch. You know, we've been here all day. Where were you? Where were you? I don't know. I don't remember the day. It was the first true missing time I've ever experienced. I never experienced anything like that. I didn't know what it was. So I just sort of stayed quiet in the bus, got back to the school, walked home. I was what they call a walker. Okay. Well, hang on. Did the kids know you were gone? Were you just. Oh, yeah. A couple of them said, where were you all day? So they were aware that you were not there? They were aware I was not there. Okay. And I don't know. To this day, I don't know where I was. You have no memory of what? No memory. You ever thought about doing regression or something to figure that out? Yeah, I have, and I'm a little concerned about it. First of all, let me just finish the other part. I got home from that lunch. I put it on the counter. My mother says, why didn't you eat your lunch? We love our moms, right? And so I said, I don't know. She goes, okay, well, go outside and play. I'll call you for dinner. So I went outside and played with my friend from next door. I distinctly remember a weird feeling coming over me out there. And then next thing you know, I'm on the ground in convulsions and seizures. And I'm banging my head on the ground. Bang, bang, bang. But it wasn't me. Here's the weird part. I'm doing this. I'm looking at the ground, seeing little red ants running around going, oh, check out the ants. Look at the ants. But I'm still hitting my head really, really hard. Hitting ants and thinking, wow, I'm hitting the ants. Hey, I'm squashing the ants. And it wasn't me. Well, they called the ambulance, of course. They put me in the ambulance. It still wasn't me. Wasn't you meaning you weren't in control? You're kind of just watching it happen? Exactly. I was a passive observer watching this happen. It wasn't really me. So guess what? I'm watching this. I'm in the ambulance. And I say to the ambulance drivers, I say, hey, can you run the siren? Right? So you're not frightened? No. No. I was like, this is cool. And they put on the siren. I'm thinking, wow, cool. They're putting on a siren for me. I wasn't worried at all. I should have been worried. Yes. I wasn't. AJ, I didn't have a worry in the world. I have no idea why I wasn't worried. I get to the hospital. The doctor sees my head has a bump on it, of course, because I was banging my head in the ground, right? Oh, it's OK. He had a concussion. OK, so I take him home. We'll have the nurse pluck out the dirt. It's embedded in his forehead, OK? That was the worst part. That hurt like you can't believe. They're plucking dirt out of an abrasion, OK? If you get an abrasion, imagine plucking dirt out of it. The pain is, ah, that's just painful. Makes people have jelly legs, right? So anyway, that was the worst part. I just wanted to go home. Well, hang on. What did mom say? Where were you? Teacher? Chaperone? Well, no. She never knew that I missed all that time. You didn't tell her? I never told her. Of course. We were not going to tell her. No, I'm not going to get in trouble. Right. What, are you going to take me to a psychiatrist now? No way. I'm not going to the doctors again. The hospital was scary to me. So I didn't want to do it, man. So I ended up going home. And the worst part was, besides the picking out that stuff out of my forehead, I know that's nasty sounding, was that they wouldn't let me sleep for the night. Because the doctors told them, keep him awake. Right. And my mother, of course, going overboard, you can't sleep tonight. You're going to have to stay awake. And that was the worst part, because I was really tired and i mean and and anyone that has seizures and convulsions knows that afterwards you're fatigued your body has just gone through this tumultuous muscle tensing and relaxation tensing it's like doing a workout in like 25 seconds 30 minutes whatever it takes and so i was just totally fatigued i couldn't even sit up in the table at the hospital i kept wanting to fall over and so that's probably why the doctor said don't let him fall asleep keep awake and i'm like okay marky okay and marky that's what they call me so is this missing time because of seizures or is there something else happened just speculate my speculation is something happened okay um i came home perfectly fine if i was having a seizure i would expect i would be dirty filthy have problem have abrasions from you know having done it i had nothing nothing aj nothing on my body indicated anything until i had that seizure before dinner and that's why i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die okay i didn't i've never sought medical help i've never tried to do a regression you know i'm sure i'll get offers to do regression but you know what i'm kind of scared of that okay i'm no that's a fair answer i'm not i'm not gonna lie i'm not like some big brave guy that's gonna say oh of course i'll do it you know i'm i'm scared of it when you're nine did you think this could be an alien abduction or did you not have that frame of reference uh it wasn't there quite yet but here's what happened after that unlike any other time after that when i got home from the hospital when i went out to play the next day uh it was fine when night came i was completely afraid to go out and let the stars see me right the stars wait a minute the night is you usually frightening to people it wasn't the night i didn't care about that but the stars were scary to me something i felt was looking at me i mean that's how i was putting it together as a nine year old it was scary so i i literally and and i think you may know enough about me to know that sometimes i attack things head on and even as a nine-year-old i kind of did that it doesn't mean i'm brave and oh look at him go no no it just means i was scared and sometimes you attack things when you're scared when you're scared you punch back right i'm scared bang you hit without thinking so i did in an intellectual way i actually i told my parents i want a telescope i want to telescope mom and dad you're afraid of the stars yet you want to see more of them i want to see more of them and i said i've got to know what's going on and i was scared to death and the first time i went out there looking at them i was literally like this and i felt this is so stupid it's just a star you know i didn't even know what stars were at that point at the point at nine years old i thought well were they alive were they were they something what are they the points in the sky yeah we know they're they're balls of hot gas oh okay that's what i knew of stars back then but something's pulling you to look but something was making me making you look yeah i looked at the moon first oh i'm comfortable with that that's the moon all right so i'll check out the moon wow look at the craters mom and dad look show them the craters wow that's nice mark remember do your homework yeah okay mom all right so then uh i looked at star clusters and i saw these beautiful clusters of stars i wonder if there's anyone looking back at me right now from there what an odd thought is it i don't know if it is unless i'm odd also yeah but duh that's why we get along i think um but yeah yeah yeah i think that that you're wondering who who's there who's looking back yeah and so um that persisted and so starting around age nine just as i reached age 10 i had to have surgery back then a heart surgery it was very big surgery and had a new haven hospital and um i started you know embedding myself and looking at the telescope because that's what i could do i couldn't do any kind of athletic stuff they wouldn't let me doctors were way over cautious and conservative back then they wouldn't let you do anything because it's a heart condition yeah yeah yeah they had to fix the valve problem right like in your car right so you know fix the valve so they fixed the valve they and now they basically have to recuperate so i didn't even they wouldn't even let me climb stairs i had to walk and i had to go to a special school that was all one floor okay it was weird so anyway they're over cautious but i sunk into the telescope and i started looking at stuff and the more i looked at stuff again still fearful okay i began to think i got to figure out what's going on out there you know i'd say it's scratching my head this is something crazy out there what is this i'm gonna figure this out i'd grit my teeth and i'd force myself to look and it's scary in the sky and i'd say i'm gonna figure this out now was it just a mental thing maybe but guess what it guess what it did it turned me into an astronomer because at age nine i felt i said to myself i'm gonna i'm gonna be an astronomer well doesn't that lead us to you writing to jpl as a nine-year-old oh yes oh yeah um i actually we have to get i mean this is very as you have your i don't know if you know how weird you are in a great way in a great way i'm out of here no no you're right i mean i i i definitely um feel that i am a little weird sometimes uh but i just mean this i try to in a good way man you know and you understand yes most of us don't have this third or fourth grade experience we're writing to jpl so can you what did you what did you send to them to nasa while recovering from the surgery yes i was bored i would look at my telescope but during the day what do i do i read books i'd read books and i realized we need a space station we need a space station i didn't know that nasa had space stations on the docket and thoughts i didn't so i created them i actually built and i created a space station plan okay it was like eight pages of torn out notebook paper okay what blueprints and not even just notebook paper i drew you know my hand and i drew space stations i drew space stations i drew space stations i drew space i made two dumbbells in an x configuration that were rotating at just the right speed so that you get gravity earth gravity in these dumbbells you're a nine-year-old figuring out how to do 1g with centrifugal force absolutely and and okay how did that happen i don't know okay okay but i did you know again it happened during that pond experience i was wow oh they they gave you they they they gave you the seed oh okay that's scary now all right you're making me think well all right we'll all right so i i built this space station plan and i put in rotation to have uh earth gravity i didn't call it 1g i didn't know what that meant okay i said this will make if it's rotating you know we'll get uh earth gravity okay and uh because there was there were there were things out there in the literature talking about space stations rotating so i i put it together i made twin dumbbells in an x configuration the access hatches were you know you get closer you get zero g at the center right well i didn't know that okay i just bring you climb a ladder to go to the next one i'd never put that part together but it was one it was it was rotating with earth gravity at the ends i had pigs in there i had cows okay you know pigs for meat cows for milk i mean i did all that stupid stuff that just obviously is impractical but i also talked about cleaning the air how do you clean the air you got to clean the air inside your space station to get rid of carbon dioxide i knew that because i read books about what we exhale so uh i also figured there has to be a way to get rid of carbon dioxide out of the air so this box here is the thing to remove carbon dioxide all right and replace it with oxygen now we don't do that part but we do scrub co2 right so i didn't know what that was but i said it's needed for a space station because we're going to otherwise get the oxygen of course the animals are going to get carbon dioxide out of the air so i did this whole stuff i wrote it all up and i draw these pictures arrows everywhere and pencil a notebook paper with blue lines i love it i boxed it up and i'm putting a folder actually and i sent it down to nasa and the the nasa person that read it must have had a field day okay he was a nasa scientist he read it and for whatever reason it struck him he actually wrote back to me uh not who was he what was his name i'll tell you i'll tell you in just a minute because that that's part of i don't want to step on the punchline no no no you're fine you're fine but so this this nasa guy writes back to me and he provides me with this giant box which i said was my space box it was full of cloth mission patches for missions it was full of books it was full of models it was full of all the stuff a kid could dream of if you're a space nut yep and i labeled it space box i had it for decades tattered torn many of the things got lost the time but i still had the box with a few things in it left and uh in my space station plan in in the manila envelope he read every page every comment and he circled things and little call outs and he wrote things like this is a good idea we do this meaning the carbon dioxide thing he says it's called a co2 scrubber and we do this now good thinking wow and then he wrote me a letter okay which said dear mark uh your space station plan i read with enthusiasm i just love that line wow i had a scientist read something i wrote with enthusiasm i mean i didn't think i'm nine i'm thinking i'm an adult right that's how you think and then he says um stick with the they called it back then the manned space program right stick with the manned space program because you've got a future you know uh and and and he signed it his name uh burt lee gentry lee gentry lee today uh and probably retired by now but he is jpl's head engineer the outer outer space robotic missions directorate yep and i literally said i can't believe this okay this is cool and now back then he was just a nasa scientist so let's jump ahead 45 years okay i remember gentry lee i should write him and find out if he remembers this he won't but i'll do it anyway i wrote him he wrote me a letter and i said okay i'm going to write him a letter and i said okay i'm going to write me back i don't remember this but that's the kind of stuff i did he says we should stay in touch this is so cool you know and it's really neat now i was in pasadena because i was at a conference out there right and i was presenting so i was presenting for a and e so i couldn't leave i didn't have a car but i wanted to go to jpl in the worst way to see if he was there to make an appointment to meet with him and say hi to him finally after all these years i didn't get that chance yet um but man uh that guy single handedly took a nine-year-old kid and cemented that he was going to become an astronomer that's a real gentleman to do that to take that time to do that he was amazing you know and and i've always given him kudos for this um we've talked about this i think in the past um i know your brother and i talked about it you know um you know for me to get where i am i've stood on the shoulders of giants you know none of it is i can't say it's all me you know i don't have that kind of ego you know i've stood on the shoulders of giants i was helped along the way and i never forget who helped me and i always make sure i name them and make give them that credit that's due them you know so that's how it works you know but it's so cool you know and so here i am some weird astronomer guy who believes ufos exist and believes that we might have alien life on our planet how the heck did that so the nine-year-old kid goes into astronomy yeah and you start building telescopes yeah i actually uh started making a reflecting telescope which i never finished because uh i was i was grinding the mirror but as a nine-year-old kid i was also very much unable to focus you know so i was grinding this mirror with a friend mike and we're grinding it in his basement and i'm like looking around and thinking man you know hurry up and finish let's get this thing so we can look at the sky so the mechanics of making a telescope weren't so exciting to me using them and looking at stuff amazing and i said but wait i want to take pictures with them and i'm thinking how do i attach my camera to a telescope now i didn't know that they have adapters so i made one you know no lie out of a paper towel roll and the camera i built out of nothing i built it out of of cardboard you built a camera i built a one-shot camera using the Instamatic film they used to have was film camera, you know? and they used a screwdriver to wind it to the next picture. I figured that's about right. And so I would actually make this camera, and then I had the cardboard attached to this paper towel roll in the telescope. I had no way of focusing it. So what I did was I figured, well, here's where the film is, and that's got to be where my eye is. So I would look where my eye is, and I took my mother's ruler, and I went like this, how far away am I from the eyepiece? And so I got pictures, but of course they're blurry, crappy photos, blurry. But you could see kind of the star, and you could see sort of a moon crater. But it wasn't unsuccessful. But I figured I wanted to take pictures, so that's how I did it. I couldn't afford a camera. How did you end up building basically a missile silo on your front lawn? Years later, let's talk about you're doing astronomy. I wanted to do astronomy, but I wanted also to share it. I took my astronomy. I took my astronomy into public outreach. I felt that that is a rigorous application of astronomy is how we're going to leave the planet eventually. Astronomy, physics, astrophysics, and maybe even cosmology is how we're going to get there. So I wanted to be an astronomer to do that. So how do you do that? Well, you have to bring other people into the discussion. You hear people talk who are in a university, and they're over your head within five minutes. And you're like, well, what about the people that are watching over here? How are they going to—they're not going to get it. So I made it my effort. I made an effort to make it so that I take the complex and make it digestible. Because even if you don't understand all the science, you should still be allowed to be in the discussion. That's why you're perfect for TV is because you'd make it accessible to all of us. Maybe, I guess. Maybe that's why they found me. Who knows? But the point being that if you can make something like that digestible, well, okay, it's a commodity of sorts, but I don't think of it that way. I don't go after opportunities. I mean, this came from someone else. And I said, oh, I'll do it. Sure, that sounds fun. All good. But the point being that when you make it understandable to people, they start asking questions. And they always start the same way. This may be a stupid question. And they go, no, no, stop. There are no stupid questions. If you don't know, you don't know. I was you once. Just ask. And they're set at ease. And they ask their question. Well, the black holes really suck. Right. Like, yeah, that's sort of true. But we don't understand gravity yet. We just know that they do. Yeah. And then they go, we don't understand gravity? Oh, that's another discussion. You know? So, yeah. So, obviously, you know, obviously, that's very important. So, tell us about the dome that you built. I just love the story. Well, so, I wanted to be able to bring astronomy to the masses, like we're talking about. And to do it, I needed to have a telescope that was always accessible. I did not like the inconvenience of having to bring it out. 150 pounds of telescope. Mount it. Align it with the north star so that I could make it properly follow the stars. Because you have to do that for telescopes, for those who don't know. And by doing that. What I did was I bought a dome for my front lawn. It was the only dome in the entire town of Terryville, Connecticut. It's this big, giant, white minion on the front lawn, okay? I dressed it up as Stuart the Minion, in fact, for Halloween, okay? And people are stopping and going, "Look, it's Stuart! Ah, banana!" You know, they're taking pictures of this giant minion on the front lawn. How big is it? Because my HOA won't let me put up a flag. How do you get a dome? How big is this thing? I don't have an HOA. That's fine. You got some perfect. It was an eight-foot diameter. Okay. Okay, so it stood about maybe eight feet tall, eight feet wide, you know? It was really, really nice, okay? I think they called it a standard two-meter dome. But anyway, I put my computer in there, the telescope was in there, and it was protected from the weather, mostly, except when we had, like, violent winter storms that ripped the shutters off and filled the whole thing up with snow. Telescope, computers, the whole nine yards, but luckily it was cold, and I took everything out. And I blew it out with my air gun and managed to recover perfectly, right? So it wasn't perfect solution, but it was great. And so I'd go in there. It'd be February. It'd be, like, minus three outside, and it has to be minus three inside, too. You can't heat a dome because there's a slot, and the warm air would go out and do this to the view. Ah, you need to keep everything the same temperature. You have to be ambient temperatures outside. And when I worked in a parallax program in a big observatory. We had a 20-inch refractor that was, like, 35 feet long. Massive dome. You'd have to open the dome hours before you're ready to start doing observations of nearby stars, okay, to gauge their distance. And when you did that, it could be 10 below zero or five degrees, and you gotta be in five-degree weather. Not only that, you had to also work in a dark room in the dome at the same temperature to develop all those plates. It was actually glass plates. Because back then, Yale University could actually measure these glass plates with what's called a measuring engine back then. That's how they did it then. Now it's all digital. Thank you. Okay? But it was crazy. So I'd be in there. So I'm used to the cold, hate the cold, you know? And the gloves are never good enough, right? You can't use heated gloves because it gives off heat. And heat causes you to have problems with your image, so you've gotta be the same temperature. Just breathing can be a problem in a small dome. Right? So anyway, I built the dome. The summer months, great. I had broadcast stuff in there. I broadcast to the internet, and I would actually stream it on YouTube. And that was the whole Sky Tour livestream thing, right? And so people would come in, and they still do, from all over the world, and just watch as I produce the universe live in real time. And we produce these images for people. And I say for people because everything we image, I give away. We have a server at Sky Tour. SkyTourLive.org. They can go on there and go grab the images we took a week ago. Even if they couldn't attend, they could see what we took. The streams are a lot of fun. They are. And you have another observatory in Arizona? I do. I have two there. And can you control that remotely? I do. You do? Yeah, because I had the one on the front lawn in Terryville, Connecticut. Right, the Minion. The Minion. And I controlled the Minion with Wi-Fi. They go, "Oh, okay, and that worked." And that worked for a period of time, and then I realized, you know, that way I could be inside the warm house while doing it. That's a huge leap from being in 20-degree weather because I'd be saying, "And this is the. " Oh, gosh. You know, I forget because I'm so cold, and people are saying, "Oh, we're feeling pain for you right now." And I was like, "Oh, see, that's the wrong thing, wrong message." So I ended up working out the Wi-Fi thing, and then I'm inside. Wow, what a difference. I have a warm room now that I'm working from. Then I realized I want to put these in Arizona somewhere. So I convinced a friend to let me put one on his land, okay, and that was the first one in Arizona out in the Sonoran Desert. You're right, on 14 miles of dirt roads after the pavement to find the observatory. Are you triangulating objects like Avi's doing with the Galileo project? Interesting you mentioned that because the other observatory in Arizona is in Benson, Arizona, which is 220 miles away. So if we image the same object from both telescopes, we could indeed do that. Okay? As long as we know the exact look angles and exact position and altitude of the telescopes, we can do the calculation. We haven't, but we can. And that was precisely why I wanted to have them separated like that, because if you see something in the sky, in fact, you can, you know, I talked to Avi's team, Ezra Kelderman is on his team. I talked to Ezra and several of his team members because I wanted to offer them a Galileo site. You know? A potential Galileo site for them, you know, if they want to ever use it and so forth. But I was also talking to him because I could maybe help them automate some of their processes. After all, I had the right software to be able to control my dome out there. And it's not even a dome, it's just a flat roof, okay, where the roof comes off much quicker to acclimate that way. And so I wrote a control program, does housekeeping stuff, turn on power, move off the roof, do this, do that, check the temperature, blah, blah, blah. So that all works great. So then when I do the actual work, I'm in Connecticut, 2,600 miles away. And I thought, you know, this is a far cry from my front lawn. But if something went wrong on my front lawn, what would I do? I'd put on my hat and go out and fix it. Can't do that when it's out in Arizona. So I had to make it bulletproof as best I could. Sometimes we lose power for a bit. Everything gets upended. I had to have back doors to be able to shut things down, even though. That only happens when you're live, by the way. Oh, yeah. Right. Isn't that weird? How did you know that? There's been times where I get in and welcome everybody, "Welcome to Skyther Livestream. Hey, guys. Mark D'Antonio here, blah, blah, blah." And all of a sudden, pew, it's all gone, it's like. It really fills your heart with fear when you lose connection. But what I did was I circumvented that. by having a secondary internet. the Internet out there was okay. In Benson, we're sharing it with nine other professional astronomers on that plateau out there, and sometimes the Internet goes out, and then everybody's out of the water, including me. So I put a Starlink in. So now I'm connected to Starlink. The backup is the regular Internet they provide. So I'm paying an additional $120 a month for the peace of mind to know that from 2,600 miles away, I won't lose connection to this telescope. You've got to have it. And the bitter irony that you're using Starlink, the bane of every astronomer on the planet. I've said that so many times. You have to do it. I'm taking pictures of these beautiful nebulae, and depending where you are in the sky, and the thing is, a typical session, for instance, I'll be sitting there looking at objects in the sky, and I've got people from all over the world watching. And I've been a performer all my life. I started as a magician early on. I do a lot of talks. I speak all over the country. I'm very comfortable in front of cameras. I'm very comfortable in the sets. I'm very comfortable. I know my marks. I know where to be. And that just came with time, right? So all that said, I started to think, well, you know, I can't let any dead air occur. I've got to fill the space with something. So I put music in the background, some of which I make myself, okay, and others of which I use from, like, the YouTube galleries. I hate those. But, you know, I haven't mixed in all my own music. I haven't mixed in all my own stuff yet. But it makes it a show. It really does. You put on a show. It's a production. Yeah, it is. It really is a production. You're right. And, you know, you want to add other things. I used to have other overlays and things, but I'm one person doing eight things at once all the time. And that makes it really hard. Now, I'll tell you this. With a friend of mine, a partner who was also a magician, we built a robot together. And the robot would work at trade shows and go out and talk to people. We actually worked an inauguration in Washington. A robot? Robot. Okay. And the robot gave, it was at the time it was the president's daughter. And we were giving her a tour of the Smithsonian. Which president? It was Clinton. Okay. So it was Chelsea. Okay. Okay. And we had her sign the robot and all that stuff. Whatever. So anyway, it was an opportunity. And Electronic Data System, EDS, Ross Perot's old company, brought us down. And said, we would like you to take Chelsea around the Museum of American History. Okay. So the museum escorted her around, talking to her, interacting with her friends. Now, what no one knew is that I was inside that thing. No, you were in the machine. I love it. Now, being magicians though, AJ. Right. Being magicians, we figured out how to make this large thing look small. Clever use of black and white colors allowed us to make it look impossible for a regular-sized human to fit in there. This is your VFX training as well. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. And so, I ended up doing this, escorting her around. Can we hire you to do parties or anything? Because that would be super fun. They have. They have. I've worked in Phoenix. I've worked all over the place with this silly thing. Okay. What did you name it? Sammy. Okay. Sales and Merchandising Informant. I knew it had to be something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it was sort of like a follow-on from the. I mean, I was in the same phase with R2-D2 and Star Wars and all that. And believe it or not, we called George Lucas to find out if he would have any problem with us doing this. And the response we got from his people was, "Go for it. More power to you." Now, you can't do that anymore. But we're grandfathered in. You are? Oh, hell yeah. So, Disney's lawyers can't touch. Good for you, man. Grandfathered in. Good for you. But, you know, I don't do a whole lot of it. You know, I don't do a whole lot of it anymore. I'm an astronomer. I don't have time to sit inside a can and run around, but it's a lot of fun. It sounds it. Unless you roll over something on the ground that smells pretty bad, because then you have air conditioning that's pulling in from the ground. You know, we've had that happen, too. What drew you to exoplanets? Everybody loves exoplanets. Oh, I know. So, what did you ask? What drew you to. Oh, oh. specializing or. Well. Well. How many are out there? How do we find them? Yeah, yeah. There's like about 5,200 known ones right now. But that's a low number, but we've got to understand that that's in a small area of sky, relatively. When Kepler went up there, Kepler's like a laser beam. It would focus on one star at a time. Is there a planet crossing in front? Are we seeing a light curve where the light dips a little bit and then comes back up? Are we seeing that or not? Okay? And then came along TESS, Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite. It looks at like a 96 degree by 24 degree field, something like that. And it's not a laser beam pointing a star by star. It's looking at whole swaths of stars and saying, "Are any of these transiting?" Okay. Okay? So, the idea was it should be able to find thousands more. Well, the TESS candidates are still being studied. There's thousands upon thousands upon thousands of them. And I'm working with. I'm working with a group with what's called Las Cumbres Observatories. And we have time on big telescopes to actually do transit studies. And I'm working with another. a kid who knew nothing about astronomy and has come a long way. It's a kid, Kyle. You know what? I give him kudos. He would always say embarrassing things about astronomy and things we're looking at when he was first starting. Now, he's an exoplanet scientist in his own right because he's managed to do the diligence. And I'm really proud he's done this. Oh, he talked about me. You're paying it forward. Yeah, but I am. I mean, because the thing is I've helped him to understand what was going on. I would advise him. And he's taken it to heart and he's worked really hard. So, I don't have an ego. I don't care. I mean, who cares? Someone has to say it, right? Someone has to study unidentified objects. Someone has to study planets around other stars. Why did I start? I started because I figured the stars aren't actually looking at me, but something around those stars might be. I started getting drawn to exoplanets. In fact, part of my book, The Populated Universe, has a whole section on stars that might be habitable, you know, and talks about why they would be habitable. That's a key point. You know, there's no guarantee of intelligence, and right up front, we know that. Intelligence is a circuitous path you follow, and by luck, you get some intelligence. Well, every creature has intelligence of some level. We, as humans, will call it rudimentary for everything below. Aliens would probably say we're rudimentary. Of course. We always heard that. We're just ants. We're not ants, okay, to aliens, in my view. And the reason is because they know we can hurt them, all right? When you, as a human, you're far more intelligent than an elk. But if you go into the middle of a herd of elk and say, "Hey, come here. I've got to put this radio collar around your neck," okay, you're going to get trampled to death, okay? So, even though the elk is not nearly as smart as you, he can kill you. That's true. Right? So, we have to keep that in mind when we talk about alien life. What are they going to do? Are they going to just stop us and put a radio collar around their neck? So, you walk into the house with a big radio collar, "Hey, you got any pizza left?" With this giant collar around your neck, right? How's that going to work, you know? We're not going to notice? Well, of course we do. So, the concept of implants, for instance. Hang on. Hang on. Before we get to aliens, there's something about transiting that I want to ask you that just occurred to me. Yeah. So, we know that transiting is the star luminosity dims a little bit, a planet goes in front. Right. Do we have to be oriented to the orbital plane? And what stars? Are we missing a ton of transits because we're just not oriented properly? We absolutely are. Really? Yeah, because if you look at my hand, if we see a solar system like this, and there's a planet going around it. Nothing. The only way we would know is if the star does a little wobble. Right. And that's because the planet might be a Jupiter-sized planet, and as they go around each other, this one moves more. The small one moves more, but the big one moves a little bit. So, if you look just at that motion, you'll see a little bit of motion. Now, that's called astrometry, studying the positions of stars. It's the most error-prone method. It is? Why is that? Because we can't measure those positions accurately. Right. Why? Because we're looking at stars. They're just ever points of light to us, you know? And when people understand that, they look at, like, Betelgeuse in the night sky, the upper left star in Orion. It's a bright red star. Right? Well, it used to be bright blue. Okay? It evolved to a supergiant. And so, when it stopped fusing hydrogen into helium, it went off the little snaky line we call the main sequence, where stars are that are burning hydrogen into helium. We call them normal stars. The Sun is one. Okay? Alpha Centauri. Those stars are others. Okay? And of all kinds. So, but once they stop, they leave that main sequence, because now they're going to fuse other elements, and when they do that, they swell, and they become these gigantic. They're much cooler red supergiants. Betelgeuse is one such star. But it's still just a point of light to us. But with something called interferometry, we can actually see the shape of Betelgeuse. It's one of the very, very few stars, that one in Antares and maybe a couple others, that are as massive. Okay? We can actually see their actual shape. See the shape. And that's it. That's amazing, though. Yeah. No other stars. Alpha Centauri, 4.3 light years away. Okay? Two stars going around each other with a third one there. And the red one going around to that is Proxima, where we have a planet or two going around that one. Okay, as well. Well, those two stars, closest ones to us, we can't see those. Because they're sun-sized. If you put Betelgeuse where the sun is, it would almost reach Jupiter's orbit and radius. Right. And then you've got to make that a huge thing, a huge diameter. Well, Proxima's a rocky planet, yes? Yeah. How do we know that? Well, we don't. Oh, don't tell me that. I want the answers. I want to know that there's oceans. Yeah, I know. See, Proxima is a red dwarf. It's a tiny little star. But red dwarf stars are the most prolific number of stars in the whole universe are red dwarfs. The largest count are these red dwarfs. That said, the red dwarfs also have the most amount of planets around them, statistically and in all likelihood practically. So if that's the case, that means that the most likely life forms might be around these stars, right? And you might say yes. Well, if you look at Jupiter and you look at it, it's moons, the Galilean satellites, right? You've got Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto, right? Well. Black Friday is coming. Last year, businesses on Shopify made billions in sales. This holiday season, you could be one of them if you start now. Shopify helps you launch fast, so you can design your site and start selling before the biggest shopping days of the year. What are you waiting for? Tis the season to start selling. Start for free at Shopify.com. I-O is going like this around Jupiter. It's same face is facing Jupiter. It's tidally locked to Jupiter in the same way that our moon is tidally locked to the Earth. So, around a red star, any planets going around one of these red stars are likely going to have to be close to it for it to be in what we call the habitable zone, right? And if that's the case, it also means for these little red stars that those planets are also tidally locked. So, if you're going to do that, you're going to have to find a way around it, right? So, if you're going to develop life on a planet like that, it's probably going to be kind of on the sunset dark side. Right. Where it's, on the front, it's going to be scorching hot. So, kind of just on the delimiter, I would guess. Yeah, the terminator. Determinator. Yeah, and at that point, you might see life develop a little further in. Now, what would life look like there? If you've ever looked at cave creatures on our planet, cave creatures in the dark, they tend to have no pigment, right? They look kind of whiteish gray. Right. Hmm? Operative word. Gray, right? But the ones that have eyes, some of them don't, okay? But if they have eyes, they're very big. Just like the grays we see in literature. Long before we thought and knew that there might be planets around M-stars, people were seeing gray-type aliens. Now, is it possible? And I just asked that question as a brain teaser. Is it possible that gray aliens, they come from these red stars? The stars that are the most numerous of any type of star in the universe. Is it possible? I can't say no. I just can't say no. You know, and so they have zero pigment, they're kind of grayish looking, they have big eyes. Is it possible that they are red star occupants? Wouldn't the red stars be older stars? Well, here's the thing about those stars. The red stars, okay, our sun is a 10 billion year lifetime. We're about four and a half, five billion years in. Whew, good. We got time. Yellow dwarf? Yeah, it's a yellow dwarf. Okay. Actually, it's a white dwarf, okay? A white, whitish star. Right. Okay, white star. It's called a dwarf, but it's not like a white dwarf. We're astronomers, we like to confuse you. But think about this. Pluto's a planet. Hey, it says so on my shirt. Attaboy. Yeah, it says I need my space and it shows Pluto's one of the planets. There you go. I got the whole ring. Team Pluto. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I knew Clyde Tombaugh. You did? I met him. Yeah, we were at an astronomy conference together and I sat with him. Did you get into a shoving match? No, I agreed with him. I felt that Pluto was definitely a planet. Yeah. Okay, back then there was no doubt. Right. It still was a planet. Anyway, so when we talk about, oh my God, I'm forgetting where I was. We were talking about red stars. Thank you. Okay, so when we look at the red stars as being most numerous in the universe, one of the things that's interesting about them is that they're kind of flary. They give off a lot of ultraviolet flares, especially when they're young. All right? And if we look at the sun, for instance, we know it is a yellow star. It's actually not. In space, it's white. Okay? It's yellow because some of the blue light is being taken from it, okay, before it gets to our eye because of our atmosphere. So, it looks yellow in the sky, but in space, it's white. Okay? And that's the condition, all right, that causes that, is something called Rayleigh Scattering. The problem is that as we get through more air, we see the sun through more air. What's happening is more of the blue light is being removed, so the sun starts looking redder and redder and redder as it goes to sunset. Sure. Or red as the sun rises. And the reason is just because of all the atmosphere removing the blue light from that red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet spectrum coming to us from the sun, okay? So, with the blue left out, you only have the red, orange, yellow, and some of the green. Okay? So, it looks predominantly red. So, anyway, that relates to the green flash people see as well. So, all that said, when we talk about these red stars, these little guys, they're like little percolators, the very first star to form in the universe as a red star is still existent and still percolating. Really? They live trillions of years. Trillions of years? Trillions, not billions. And why? Because they're a little different animal than stars like the sun. The sun, one of the things I had to do in astronomy was build a star, a computational model of a star and make it work at all levels. And I had to build a core, I had to build this envelope outside. The core has a, there's a radiative energy that comes out from the core for a certain distance and then it turns to convection near the surface. Well, the red stars are convective throughout their entire diameters, and that means they can dredge from outside back to the inside hydrogen fuel, so the very first star in existence that's a red star. And the second star is still alive today, so to speak. So if we only, if we're what, 13 and change billion years in, how do we know it can survive for trillions? 13.8. Models predict that stars like this are utilizing their hydrogen at a certain rate, and based on their mass, we know how much hydrogen's in their outer envelopes, and we can calculate what their longevity is. The number comes out to trillions of years. So what does that mean for life? Life has a long time. Time to potentially gestate on a planet like that. It can come and go. There could be flares that wipe it out, but it'll keep coming, right? I think the universe provides these templates, okay? DNA is a template undoubtedly provided by the universe, right? Adenine, cytosine, guanine, thymine, nucleotides, these guys make up DNA, and that DNA is something that has been brought to our planet by asteroids, comets, and meteor impacts, okay? I think they just found another one last week. Yeah, exactly, right? With a protein. With proteins. That's right, and see, the Murchison meteorite was famous because it brought some amino acids to our planet, okay? And when, there was a famous experiment called the Miller-Urey experiment in 1951 or '52, and what they did was they had a flask, and it was filled with the hypothetical primordial atmosphere on our planet, and they bombarded it with lightning, and there was a spark gap. A week later, there was a brown sludge in the bottom. They examined it. It was a black hole. It was a black hole. It was a black hole. It was a black hole. It was a black hole, and it was a black hole. It was a black hole. Now, what does that mean? It means that even the Earth, with its thunderstorms and its rudimentary atmosphere, was creating the building blocks of life by itself, also brought by comets and meteors and asteroids striking the planet. So it's like. So you think there's tons of life out there? I do. I think that there's tons of life elsewhere. Is it intelligent? Well, that's the question. Now, I had an argument with my director at the observatory when I was getting my degree. I said to him, "I think it's a populated universe. There's a lot of meteors out there." Now, ironically, that became the title of my book later, years, years, and years, decades later. But I said to him, "I believe it's a populated universe. Look at us. We're carbon-based. We're bilaterally symmetric. Same on the left as on the right." Carbon is the basis of life on planet Earth, and it's probably the basis of life everywhere in the universe. That's my guess. And so I said to him, "I believe that it's not just here. This is where this has happened. I believe it can be in existence all over the universe, in a variety of ways, at a variety of levels and capacities." Do I think that every life form is intelligent? No, I don't. Intelligence takes a certain path, right? I will say this, though. When the dinosaurs were rendered extinct by the Chicxulub impactor 65 million years ago, there was one dinosaur whose cranial capacity was accelerating in size, and it was called Troodon. Yep. It's T-R-O-O-D-O-N. I did an episode on it. Did you really? Yeah. That's the reptilian race. They come from there. Yeah. And so that. Well, you know what? That's funny, because I used to say, "Ah, reptilians. What a stupid thing." But then. Why not? Why not? Then. And then. Why files? Then I realized. Then I realized that I'm really being short-sighted here, because I'm looking at this in terms of Earth development, and I love alternate history. I do. So I work through what would happen if dinosaurs didn't get rendered extinct love it what would happen how would life change on the earth well it would still go on like it's been going on there would still be evolutionary uh you know mutations right mutation followed by adaptation is evolution and that's exactly what we see the truodon was starting to form a opposable thumb yes exactly so i mean this thing is very important yes it is okay and bipedalism is very important well the truodon was already kind of bipedal okay so was it gonna reach that status we don't know we don't know but it figured out that hey caves are kind of safe yes that's exactly right so you did do that he's a smart guy that guy over there well that's it i love alternative history also without so without that let's just speculate without chikshalube yeah is the truodon become the apex it would it would become one of the smartest dinosaurs i would think uh given no other you uh downfalls no other impacts events no other biological catastrophes or anything the truodon may have actually proceeded now would the truodon be conscious of that i don't know you know who knows right we can speculate but i do believe and this is why i changed my idea and i kept thinking to myself don't go down that path you're going to become that that guy that thinks reptilians are all around us or something i'm not okay i'm not that guy but i will say this i do believe that you could have races out there that may have developed off of a reptilian branch okay i do believe that and here's why if you look at how life develops on a planet right you have an ancient ancestor and then what do you have you have you have all this radial branches coming off it right radiative adaptation okay all moving out in all directions every one of those is a different creature different animal different version of the same species yep and those do this radiative adaptation many of those branches die off in other words they they're not successful now the question is where do the mutations occur they occur in the dna to begin with right what's causing that what do you think i'll ask you a question what do you think is causing the adaptations and the i say the mutations in creatures just to survive yeah right there's environmental pressures right and this one happened to be born with a thicker high than usual and guess what it's going to survive the new glacial age and right it's offspring will probably have thicker hides too that's right that's natural selection okay but the other thing too is we had a we have a son a young son and that young son the young young young saying all wrong the young son actually is spewing all this ultraviolet radiation and what does that do to our dna it makes it unravel exactly it unravels certain uh nucleotides and reassembles them another way it causes mutations yes you got a shield from that somehow yes and and and thank you for the atmosphere right doing that okay the atmosphere was a little thicker we had up to 33 oxygen in our atmosphere at one time which is why this is so big and hulking okay but today a brontosaurus could a brontosaurus couldn't survive right you know it couldn't have the the oxygenation in his tissue required to survive so we'd have to give it an oxygen mask or make a little pocketbook one like i was i think it was i think it was gino that said like paris hilton would have a little pocket a little pocket dinosaur yeah get back that would definitely happen a little pocket tie tyrannosaurus pocket right hey rex you know so give me a read on the drake's uh equation regarding life doesn't have to be intelligent what how many planets do you think all right well okay here's the thing when when when frank drake finally first did that equation okay it only came out to one planet ours right and the reason was because that's all we knew there was many parts of the equation he didn't have answers for like how many planets out there are habitable we didn't have you'd have to guess we only knew one one times one is one right and so we had to do that and that makes sense but there's an there's an italian team and another team they each did their uh their analysis of the new drake equation using what we now know about exoplanet populations the numbers are now staggering okay we have about 150 billion stars at the low end in our galaxy at the high end 400 billion we can't even see the other side of our galaxy you know i mean it's blocked by the central bulge and all the dark dust we're looking through tons of dark dust all the time in our universe in our local universe right and we can't see the other side we're guessing based on the architecture here we're saying symmetrically it must look like that okay that said when you look at the number of stars let's say 150 billion right now the estimate is right now with this this italian team i think it was they came up with uh 25 million earth-like planets in our galaxy 25 million i know it sounds like a lot want more yeah yeah okay that's at the low end okay and if it if you go to the high end it looks like maybe we're talking 40 billion 40 billion billion b with a b as in baker 40 billion potential habitable worlds in our galaxy now that doesn't mean intelligent life but it sure does give it a fighting chance doesn't it it does yeah so that's that's the possibility that we're looking at right now and so it's between 25 million and 40 billion kind of a range man okay but and again it depends who you talk to you know everybody has their own take on frank drake's work um and i'm kind of in the middle i don't go to the 40 billion range i actually think it's it's more of a percentage of the stellar population so based on the stellar population the fact that m stars are the most populous in any galaxy all throughout the universe i think we're probably looking at maybe 10 of the star numbers in a galaxy might actually be habitable based on metrics but i'm kind of a little bit more conservative but 10 of 15 billion it's that's plenty what technology do we need to definitively identify that kind of planet transit's not going to do it right transit gives us an idea of how many things see we say okay if we're seeing this many there have to be statistically this many more that we're missing we're still we're still kind of guessing that's that's right it's still a guess and what about spectrometry what about color analysis for atmospheres is that enough i've done spectrometry it's spectrometry too and uh creating you know the bands look at the different absorption bands and stuff i've seen it i got one going in our observatory actually we're putting in a new spectrometer actually to make another telescope capability and um they show us uh what a star is made of but if a planet passes in front again in front of the star then that planet's atmosphere is going to pollute the star's spectrum with its own spectral lines yes and that pollution we call contaminant in the spectrum gives away the planet's condition so if you see lines come and go periodically another big one you know that there's a planet doing this you know contaminate contaminate contaminate right exterminate right so it's like we see that contamination show up in a spectrum and bam now we're looking at some uh really interesting findings because now we're saying well that looks like a planet and now based on the spectral lines we might be able to actually determine what's in the planet's atmosphere too james webb is doing that that's what my next question what have we seen anything in the color that makes us go wait a second well the thing about the thing about um the spectra is yes we're looking at spectra and and they do tell us what's in there but it has its own limitations too because we're only as good as the quality of the spectrum coming from the distant planet or whatever and one of the things for instance to give an example um james webb made news uh a couple years ago with a finding in i think it was kepler-18b okay it was one of those planetary atmospheres now the planetary atmosphere was like hydrogen it wasn't oxygen okay but it doesn't have to be okay the the hydrogen atmosphere all right was uh that was the atmosphere around this planet but it looks like the james webb is also showing another compound called dimethyl sulfide everybody knows what dimethyl sulfide is even if they don't know that name if you eat corned beef and cabbage you know it good for you yeah it's actually yeah it's the smell that's only created by life on earth and it's created uh when you when the tide goes out you smell the the mud yeah you're smelling the methyl sulfide so we've we've seen that we all know that and well okay they had a finding showing dimethyl sulfide and they're saying well that was a very aggressive analysis uh a repeat analysis that was more careful didn't seem to show it however it's on the radar now as a target compound to look for because dimethyl sulfide is only created by life and if we can find oxygen in a planetary atmosphere of any quantity then it's very likely it was created only by life because phytoplankton i'm sorry man you're breathing bacteria poop brother that's that we are that's why we're here you know we're breathing we're breathing the waste product from phytoplankton yes yeah so We're mostly nitrogen, so think of a distant planet. How do I phrase this? Color analysis, can we tell that there is some oxygen in there, or does the dimethyl sulfide, does that overwhelm the color? No, dimethyl sulfide is sort of a minor player. When you're saying color, we've got to be careful what you mean by that, because when we're talking about the spectrum, there's different locations in the spectrum where these spectral lines will appear. And they're at different nanometer wavelengths. And so when we do talk about that, they could be in the red end, they could be in the blue end, or whatever, or green, or anywhere in between, or multiple sites at once. Hydrogen is usually in the red end of the spectrum, but there's a blue line in there too that you can see too. So there's a lot of different things. But if we look at a planetary atmosphere, James Webb won't be able to find oxygen during that time. And it was always known that was true. And the reason is because, and I've seen these lines. In my spectroscopy that I've done, I've seen the oxygen lines in our own atmosphere affecting my stellar shots. And it's actually down in the red end of the spectrum, and it's visible. It's in the visible spectrum. Now, if this is the visible spectrum, James Webb is like 200 feet that way, where it's looking in the red, if this is red. It's off in that far infrared. So now, how can it see? If you see oxygen, if oxygen occurs here in the spectrum, it can't. So somehow there has to be a way. Can it see it? Well, it can. Because what happens is, oxygen atoms in an atmosphere collide. And when they collide, they create an infrared signature that's out there that the James Webb can see. Oh, I didn't know that. Ah, it's an inferred oxygen. I love it. Yeah. So it's got the eye out for that too. And spectroscopy went from being kind of like a basic science in the 1800s to being this mega science now. In fact, think about this, right? I mean, this is the truth. Everything we ever knew about astronomy is just by looking at the simple light coming from something. Right? Radio waves are light, just invisible light. Microwaves are light, just invisible. Gamma rays are light, just highly energetic blue light, right? So obviously, everything we ever looked at in the stars, it's just the light. And the other thing, which I find interesting too, and this is sort of an aside, but I'm going to take you there because I think this is cool. The universe is a time machine. Every time we look out at the universe, we're seeing it as it was, not as it is. You see the moon 1.3 seconds ago. You see the sun eight minutes ago. Okay? Right, Betelgeuse could be gone already, right? Exactly. And Betelgeuse is like 640 light years away, meaning it took like 640 years to get here. Well, if Betelgeuse blew up, boom, way out there, okay? Well, the light of it still being there is still traveling to us. So it's still coming to us. If this is us, it's still coming to us. And when that supernova finally reaches here, we'll see it. Yes. But that'll say, ah, when we see the light, it happened 640 years ago. And I have a talk I'm doing now. I'll be doing it on contact. And it's about the time machine universe. We're going to talk about what was going on on Earth when the light we see tonight left that object. I love that. That's so cool. It is. And it puts it in terms of Earth history. And people say, wow, you mean that object, when the light that we see tonight left that object, Earth wasn't even formed yet? That's right. And now you're seeing light. All that travel time it took to get here, Earth evolved, Earth became a planet, Earth went through five major extinction events, and then boom, we're here now, pow, that light comes in and it's gone. And you're a witness to it. It's kind of a cool thing. I love it. It is, it's neat. Before we break and come back and talk UFOs, what's telescope technology going? Like, what's the future look like? What are we going to see? Yeah, and see, Earth-based telescopes are still progressing, right? We have the Very Large Telescope. We have the Vera Rubin Telescope. I actually applied to be their outreach astronomer, actually. But alas, they wanted somebody else, which is fine, okay? But it would have been a Tucson job, right? But that's okay. So anyway, I ended up looking at technology of telescopes. And for me, for me, the telescope pictures we're taking today with our remote telescopes are the equivalent of some of the space-borne telescopes of the past. So we're finding that people with just the ability to put a telescope somewhere, a modern telescope, they have the ability to see things that just were not ever possible. And I'll be able to take spectra of stars and maybe see the pollution in a spectrum from a planet. And so telescopes are progressing to the point now where even anyone who has no knowledge of science can do real science, okay? Of course, we guide them, right? We try to get them successful. We want them to be successful, right? And so we're doing these streams, right, these live streams. And we have these two. They're not large. One's a 10-inch, one's a 12-inch telescope, or 11-inch, okay? And at different locations, sometimes I'll run them both at the same time. And people can see a wide field view of the universe and a narrow field view of the same thing. And then they can see all these things. But the telescope technology, we have to also couple it with remote technologies. How do you. Remember, it used to be an eyepiece you looked in. Right. And then how many times when I was teaching astronomy for a science center, I would put something in the telescope view, and then someone, let me see, and they'd pull it. I don't see it. And I'd be like, no kidding. No kidding, you don't see it. All right? You just bump it with your elbow, like, oh, okay. Yeah. So to get rid of that, I wanted to put a camera. So I started with a regular film camera, not a film camera, but a digital camera. It was a Sony A7S. I stick it on my telescope, take pictures, and pump that out over the Internet to show people live. Well, that gave way to dedicated cameras, dedicated instrumentation. And now you can't look through the telescopes that I have. Yeah, without looking at a screen. Now, that's less romantic, that's less nostalgic, I agree. However, it's way more instructive and way more capable, and that's what I do. And so the telescopes came a long way. Their manufacturing processes are probably a hundred-fold better than they were 30 years ago, okay? And the electronic arm for getting this stuff transmitted digitally has, we're probably heading to a technological singularity with that. I mean, we're climbing that slope so fast, and it's fantastic. What if we unlock the ability to build in space and can construct a giant array, not a 20-foot, 200-feet? That's a plan. What would we see? Could we finally image the exoplanets with something like that? Yeah, actually. And here's the thing, okay? If we make a large telescope, okay, there's a limitation of what it can see. Okay? There's a Dawes limit, right? And that limit has to do with aperture. It's aperture, aperture, aperture, aperture. The larger your aperture, the smaller thing you can image, okay? Right now, the James Webb is 21 feet in diameter. Hubble's 8. Why was it 8, you know? No. I'll tell you. Because 8 feet fit inside a rocket tube. Okay. You can't take a circle and fit it any other way. Makes sense. It's going to take 8 feet either way. The diameter is the diameter. You can't, sorry, the diameter is the diameter. You can't change that. But the James Webb is 21 feet in diameter. The James Webb was a departure. They used those hexagonal folded mirrors, and they unfolded to 21 feet out in space. First time we've ever done that, okay? And so that, 300 plus things had to work right for that thing to deploy right. Yeah. I counted every one of them. I bet. I followed that thing. I wanted that thing to work. I wanted that thing to work in the worst way. It was fantastic, you know? And, you know, I've known pioneers. I've known a woman that worked at Goddard Space Flight Center. She was on the team that landed on Aero. Aero was, okay, the near-Earth asteroid. Yeah. And she, believe it or not, was a Catholic nun. Go figure. Yeah. She was a PhD scientist. Who knew? She was at my table in my house. Let's not discount the clergy's contribution to astronomy over the years. No, no, no. We certainly can't, but we can discount that we actually make judgments of people when we look at them. For sure. Namely, Mark D'Antonio, who shouldn't have. And I know it's an aside, but she was sitting at my table, and she says, you know, I really like the Hubble Space Telescope. I'd love to see some pictures. Oh, would you like me to print you out some pictures from the Hubble? Oh, yes, please. So I went down, got my best photographic paper, printed about four or five of these nice shots, helix, nebula, other things, really nice. Brought them up, sat down with her. And I'm telling you, yeah, and this, see this? This is hydrogen gas emission. It's making it look red. Okay, now that got teal blue. That's oxygen. And what it's doing is it's ionizing, making electrons jump off the atom momentarily, absorbing energy. And when they come back in, called recombination, it gives off a little bit of oxygen. It gives off light. And she's nodding. Oh, oh, okay. Meanwhile, the other nun, who's a relative of mine, is laughing. I'm going, what are you doing? Sister Florence, you shouldn't be laughing at me. Okay, I'm thinking. And meanwhile, I'm telling her these things, and she's nodding. And I'm a little white-haired old lady. I judged. I was wrong. Because Florence said, she's an astrophysicist. And I went, oh, my God. And she goes, she works at Goddard. She landed on an asteroid. I'm like, what? and I'm like, "That was you?" yeah. I was blown away, man. I was blown away. I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy. I love it. Oh, yeah. And that was Sister Mary Ellen. I can't believe it. She was a wonderful, beautiful person. You know, she passed, unfortunately, but she took all that with her. Now, when Osiris-Rex went out, okay, to do the asteroid sample, sample return, I contacted the team and said, what are you doing? Are you doing any kind of photo dots or anything like that? Oh, yeah, we do. Do you have somebody you want to put on there? I absolutely do. What's a photo dot? They put a little micro dot on the probe, okay? And it contains all the photos and images of people that you want to memorialize. Got it. I put her in there, and they accepted it. So now, she is circling the sun for a billion years, you know? I think that's really cool. Once again, Mark painted for it. Let's take a quick break, and we'll come back and talk about UFOs. Yeah. All right. Time to enter the realm of the weird. Wait, this isn't all weird? We're just getting warmed up. This is great, man. A story you told, I forget where it was, but it was a three-night story. Oh, that. Take us to night one with the knocking. Yeah, that. I will tell you, though, you know, when you're a science guy, you don't expect this stuff to happen to you. But what do you do when it does? You know, I mean, I even did a talk, I even had a lecture called, Where Does Science Go in the Face of the Unexplained? Now, the unexplained could eventually be science, okay? We never thought we'd break the sound barrier. Right. Until we did, right? We never thought we'd find planets until we did. So there's a lot of until we dids out there, okay? And so where does my thought process go when I know there might be alien life here, never experienced it, don't know if it was, not sure if it's really here or not, but investigating it to try and find if it is. And then suddenly, you wake up one night. And you think, why am I awake? And then you look over at the clock. It's exactly 3.15 a.m., right? And then you hear this. What's that? What's that going on? And then you look, and it's coming from, like, the peak of the window roof. Sets a three just like that. Like this. No, what is that? It's happening. Something's going on up there. I don't even know what it is. And it's just persistent. You know? Now, at the time I rescued greyhounds from the track. Because I had my dogs, and I had these two greyhounds, right? And they sleep underneath a window to the right side of the bed, okay? My wife is next to me, asleep. And there's a window. And there's a screen. It's August, and you can hear the sounds of the night out there. And there's one street light you can see through the window, which is annoying to me. Right? Whatever, right? So, as I'm sitting there, thinking, hearing this thing, I'm like, whatever. And I go back to sleep. Did that knock wake you, or did you wake? I'm not sure if the knock. The knocking woke me up first, and then I heard follow-ons. Okay. So, maybe. I don't know. Next night, okay, same thing. I wake up. Oh, come on! Again? I'm hearing this, and it's like a rhythmic thing, like this. You know? And then I look at the clock. 3:15 a.m. again. What is this? You know, what's going on? Are you frightened? Are you annoyed? I'm annoyed. I think it's like a woodpecker that's like mentally handicapped, and he's banging on my vinyl siding or something. So, I get up, and I go over quietly to the dogs sleeping under the window, and they're looking up. They're hearing this thing up there, and they're going. They're looking up there, too, with their heads up in the air. So, I lean over them, grab the windowsill, and I push my face against the screen to kind of look up. I didn't want to open the window, because I didn't want to open the screen, because I didn't want to scare away whatever it was. I thought it was an animal. Mm-hmm. The next thing you know, I see this blanket of white light in my view, just a total white flash. Now, when you have a. When you have a flash, okay, you see a hotspot, and then it fades away, right? Well, that hotspot that fades away is something that you're used to if you get flash-blinded, right? This was a blanket white. It was just a pure white flash in my whole vision, the same intensity across the whole vision. A flash or a sustained. No, it was just like a, "Boo!" Okay. And all of a sudden, I couldn't see. My eyes weren't working for a moment, and then I'm just holding onto the cell, looking out again. I take away my face from the screen, and I'm looking out at nothing. I can't see anything, just like a haze of whitish afterimage. And then I start to see the streetlight in the distance, and it starts to fade back in slowly and stuff's coming in around it. I'm like, "I was just flash-blinded." Yeah. What is that? Why? I've never seen a flash-blind like that. Does nothing frighten you, Mark? I'm actually. This whole. Good. I need to know you're a human. I was terrified by what you're about to hear. Okay. There's terror here. Good. Okay? There's terror coming. Promise. Okay? So as I'm sitting there, and, you know, waiting for my vision to come back, I thought, "I've been flash-blinded. What the heck?" And now, I'm curious. I gotta know what that is. Well, first of all, I look down because I'm leaning over the dogs. They're sleeping under me, and they were just perfectly fine down there. I look down, and they're not there anymore. They're gone. I'm like, "What the heck? Where did the dogs go?" And I turned on the light, and I start looking for Tycho, my male greyhound. Of course, Tycho. Yeah, yeah. And Tycho is hiding in a laundry pile inside the closet. Hiding. Not just sitting elsewhere in the room. Hiding in the laundry pile. He sunk down behind the laundry pile and curled up, and he wasn't. He didn't want to come out. His ears were back. Something scared him. And Kepler. Kepler. Kepler. Yeah. was outside the room, hunched down in that minimal surfaces pose, "I don't want to be seen." And she was scared to come back into the room. And both dogs, from that point forward, just as an aside, never slept under that window again. They'd sleep in other positions in that room or in a different room next door. They would never come back under that window again. I think every pet owner's seen this. Your cat or dog sees. What do you see that I don't see? Yeah. Something scared them. You know? And so after I got my vision back, I was like, "What is going on?" So later on that day, I basically forgot about it. I came home from work. I was actually working a quote-unquote "real job" at that point. And when I came home, I went outside, looked up at the window from the outside, looking to see pecks into the vinyl siding, like a woodpecker. And maybe I hit a nerve when I turned my head or something, you know? But it was just a flat blindness. It was the weirdest thing. Yeah. So then that third night now, I wake up again. I'm like, "Oh man, now I'm not. " Tapping again? No. I'm not hearing any tapping now. Now, I'm just awake. And I'm thinking, "Is this 3:15 AM again?" And I went to turn my head. I couldn't move my head. Oh no. So then I went to move just my eyes, and my eyes wouldn't move. My eyes wouldn't move. Sleep paralysis? You know what? It's more than the hypnagogic type thing, because I've used that for meditation. Actually. So you know what that is? I know what it is. I get into it on purpose, so I can actually relax and sink, you know? It really feels good when you do it right. So I'm sitting there going, "What the heck's going on?" I tried to move my eyes. You can move your eyes. I couldn't even move my eyes. My eyes were fixed. And they wouldn't. If I tried to move them, it felt painful, like something was restricting it. And I thought it was like a medical thing that happened. I'm thinking, "Oh no, I'm gonna die here. No one's gonna find me," or something, you know? Weird thing. But at that point, I watched from the side. I saw something eclipse that streetlight. I couldn't look at it, but I saw it in my peripheral vision. I can see my hand here in peripheral vision. While I'm looking at you, I see my hand. Right. Well, I saw something pass in front of that rough, dim outline of the window, pass in front of it. And now it's doing this. It's coming toward me, getting bigger in my vision. I'm like, "What the hell is this?" You can't see its shape? No, it's dark. Okay. But then it extended something, and it had like a. It looked like a wand. It looked like a magician's wand, but it was like a pen. But it was glowing soft white. And it's here, right here. And I'm looking at you in the same way that I had to look, because this is where my eyes were stuck, fixated on. I couldn't move and look down. And it wouldn't let me. But I saw, for all the world, gray, long fingers. Oh, come on. Like a hand. And then I felt something going up into the sinus. And it was like, "Whoa!" And then it was morning, and boom. I was lying there. And I was lying with my hands on my sides, face down in my pillow, and unable to breathe. Okay? Why couldn't you breathe? Because I moved my hands up, and I pushed out the pillow like that. And I looked down in the pillow, filled with blood. Concave, like I was sleeping in a lake of my own blood. And it came out of here, out of this sinus. And it felt like someone punched me really, really hard. Now, could that have been just a strange nosebleed with a wild dream? Sure. Over three nights? Mm. With a knocking? And frightened dogs. And the frightened dogs? There's a lot of concurrent things going on that make this really strange. What are you feeling when you wake up? Are you frightened? Do I have to go to the doctor? You would think that. You would? Anyone that goes through such a terrifying encounter is gonna say, "I gotta get to the doctor and get my face checked." No, no. Instead, what does Mark do? Mark goes and takes a shower, does the work, and forgets about it. Now, wait a minute. Okay. Think about that. That's not right. It's not. It's not proper behavior. your own response okay so it took me two full years of not being able to breathe out of this side of my nose that whole time from that night forward this was blocked forever and so it's like this it's like this side only this the right side only i go to the surgeon ear nose and throat doctor in harford connecticut okay all public record which is cool i go into his office yeah hi doctor um i can't breathe out of this thing when did this happen uh about two years ago no oh okay let's take a look he looks up there you didn't tell him what no right not at that point right okay i'll get to that though so then he looks up there and he says holy cow he says and i said those are words you don't want to hear a doctor say and he lies he goes oh he goes but i will say this you've got something huge up there and i went really yeah he goes i i think we can get it out and i said okay and how can we do that he says well we can numb it up and i'll i can reach up there we can use a special lasso and then and and get rid of it it's it's uh looks like it's it's something we call a nasal polyp but it's like the biggest one i've ever seen he said no lie those were his exact words i'm like wow and uh he's been in business like 40 years at that point so he goes up there he snares that he pulls it out it's this big size of my two thumb and it comes out through that little hole okay i felt like uh arnold schwarzenegger that's what that's what i'm thinking of yeah yeah and it's like get it out now pull it out you know yeah get it out right that's what it felt like to me did you see it of course i did what is it i i it's it's a it's a looks like a fleshy mass okay okay it's disgusting looking okay uh and it wasn't moving nothing moving my first words can i have that i did i don't want that yes i want that i yes okay oh no no we have to send this down the pathology to make sure it's not a malignant you know uh you know tumor or something he says but um i'm pretty sure it's benign he said but you can absolutely not have it and and now yet he still doesn't know anything yet so i said okay well can you at least have them check the center of it to see if there's something in there that doesn't belong there and he said oh you mean like a splinter that a machinist might get yeah yes yeah i can do that why oh and you know what's coming next i told him the story you did a little bit okay yeah not to the detail i said she even shared with you he laughs he goes oh he goes i'm sure it's not aliens you know of course not who would think it's aliens you know maybe me i don't know and he says all right call me in a week and i'll let you know okay thanks i left call in a week yeah hi it's it's mark i was going oh hold on doctor has to talk to you oh yeah yeah oh we're right yeah oh and my heart's going to get what happened maybe it's like my head's gonna fall off you know what's gonna happen here he gets on the phone hey mr d'antonio just want to let you know uh it's probably benign nothing to worry about okay oh so you don't have the results from pathology yet and his response was no response he paused and he goes well um i've seen these before this looks benign he says but in in all honesty i hate those words in all honesty uh because that's what happens before you lie it is in all honesty um i sent it down to pathology and they can't find it they lost it they lost a sample of someone's tissue is that something that happened in his career often he was just losing his response i've been doing this for whatever at the time 35 40 years he said this is the first time this has ever happened in my office i went of course it's not me of course it was now he says but it's it's it's not a problem it's benign okay all right thank you so i left and um wasn't happy with that outcome but i said i don't know i don't know where it went maybe it really was lost maybe it really was just some kind of stupid polyp you know however two years later i went in again for something else and you know how you fill in the intake sheet sure well they always say i'm i'm i'm i'm uh pregnant and lactating and you know i always do i make funny cartoons because don't you don't do don't do that i do because the medical assistants they you know my wife's a medical assistant and she has to read those too and so i'm stealing that bit go on you should i entertain them you know right as well because i'm a consummate entertainer that way i just want people to have fun you know so these things are meaningless many times so but then for my my career what do you do i told him i do special projects for the navy okay oh okay so uh and i just left it at that you know well i go in i sit down he walks in with the sheet he's reading the intake sheet and he's laughing goes he goes my medical assistants love you this is funny stuff i do cartoons and pictures you know all that stuff so you know you're 45 minutes waiting for a thing that's like 45 minutes late i'm gonna draw cartoons darn you right okay i'm gonna entertain myself okay so anyway um he sits there and he looks and he looks at the thing he says special projects huh you know yeah and i i told him some more details and then he does something i never saw a doctor do in my entire career of going to doctors entire entire life he hopped up on the exam table next to me i don't like that at all no i don't like it i was like awkward yeah awkward i was like this like and i go and he goes you know he's looking out the window like we're two kids on a cliff looking over a lake or something he says wistfully yeah yeah wistfully remembering i just gave up my top secret clearance to the doctor and i'm like i don't know what to do i don't know what to do i'm like what to do i don't know what to do i don't know what to do i'm like i don't know what to do i'm like what to do i don't know what to do i'm like i don't know what to do i'm like i don't know what to do this year this year so he was cleared when you know it and i looked at him and huh that's interesting now i know from having done work in that arena that you report everything down to your your handlers the people you work for um at all times because otherwise you're liable you actually can be criminally charged if you knowingly don't report something that you should yep so he probably called and they probably said okay where is this thing you took out and he told him you know in the pathology department here at hartford hospital and so they probably then said okay thank you okay bye under oath on the polygraph he doesn't actually know who took it under oath on the polygraph he can't say who took it and where it went no it's all compartmentalized by design you got it you got it so what do you what what do you think it was did it could you feel metallic could you taste metallic plastic no but what i found out what happened after was what made me realize there was something more to this okay now yes i suspected there was more to it because of the terrifying encounter of course however um i i second guessed myself did it really happen you know did it happen that way and as i reproduced and recreated the results in my head watch it watch the events over again over and over and over i came to the conclusion this was real man i had no other way to say this wasn't real other than say it happened it's as real as me talking to you right now is this real or is this memrex you know is this a brain dream uh no we we objectively can decide what reality is sure and i decided that that was actually reality that actually did happen so um sometimes when it was taken out at first uh i would be driving down the road and i'd feel like i was in a car and i'd feel like i was a burning pain right where it used to be and i hear a high-pitched whine in my head really really loud yeah i'd have to pull over and it persisted for like two years afterwards it would do that every now and then no pattern to it okay and then it went away for like a decade no more tapping no more light no more nope and then recently it started happening again i started getting i mean within the last eight months to nine months i started feeling this pain and i was like oh my god from now from nine months ago from today i would feel this pain again and hear that high-pitched whine i'm like what the heck you know mothership's trying to find you yeah well know what it is and if you if you have an electrical circuit you know all about this you design a circuit you try to put charge through a circuit and the component is substandard it's gonna go pop and it's gonna burn right or something's gonna happen you're gonna have a short circuit all right it felt very much like and sounded very much like a short circuit going on up and down there was it i don't know have you had a look that sense i have had just multiple mris okay and the mri show clear it's clear you know so what's going on up there why is it doing that no one knows you know this is weird stuff and like i said where does science go in the face of the unexplained i can't explain this man aj i'm at a loss for words so you're doing some special work for the navy and you end up somehow on a submarine yeah that was decades ago actually i always felt like ufos uap i still call them ufos i always felt like there's more of them in the ocean and your experience on that sub was very interesting to me can you tell us yeah you know i'll tell you right now um everybody's always looking up for ufos okay but there's a growing number of people looking under the water for usos unknown suburbs object i've always said to people they go where we are not okay Because if you're a science team gonna study elk in the Yukon, what are you gonna do? the middle of the elk herd and say hey come here let me study you nope you set up a blind it will kill you you set up a blind yep and you watch them from a distance you tranquilize one abduct it yep put something in its nose yeah yeah yeah tag in the ear okay well the elk don't notice that but humans would you know hey frank where'd you get that tag i don't know got some pizza i mean right we're not gonna do that right we're gonna notice that stuff so the bottom line is that they're gonna they're basically gonna say uh we need a surreptitious way to do it so they use sinus potentially sinus implants right that's one of the things roger lear was into okay all that and and maybe that's happening maybe that's real you know my experience seems to indicate it was right i can't say but when i was on the submarine okay and why were you on a submarine okay well first of all i did some project work for the navy and i literally was asked would you like to go out on a submarine us sub yeah who wouldn't want to go out on a sewer pipe with end caps in the middle you know this guy yeah but go off well at that point i was making submarine models that actually functioned i actually made working subs that he had real ballast tanks and these are models but they would go in lakes world war ii german u-boats modern submarines i had a research subject the alvin yep okay i did engineering uh uh talks for the woods whole oceanographic institution using the alvin i created which could dive deep and come back to the surface oh it's so cool super cool yeah really cool stuff you know there's engineering there real engineering so that was kind of neat to actually go through all that well anyway um as a thank you for some project work they said you want to go for a trip on a sub yeah i didn't know what i was getting into um i've only been at subs at the dock uh up to that point and i've been in the virginia class at the seawolf class but i was able to go all over the boats i mean to be honest i could go anywhere i've been in dry dock with some of the boats and in places that people normally don't get a chance to see and so i said i want to go so i showed up at the sub base i think it was like five in the morning boat left by uh 7 30 a.m but i never even realized we left the dock until i started to feel this the whole boat swimming around under my feet and i thought oh i'm getting like dizzy what's going on well that's the river and the water causing the boat to move and do this and do this compound motion in the water and man i got seasick i'm not i'm not proud man i was seasick sick as a dog all right so i thought oh man i have to have dinner with the captain later in the ward room oh no i don't want to be sick no okay no and i was scared so um once we got out to sea okay um and they dive the boat it feels like everybody listening and watching feels right now you can't tell you're moving okay there's no motion except when you go through water of a different temperature you get a little bit of vibration and that's how you know that you're moving because you're getting that vibration of you know okay warmer water up front colder water at the back translates through the hull okay and that stuff is uh that's how you know you're moving that's the only way you know if you're moving at high speed you turn they bank so you kind of feel a little weird and heavy but you never feel like you're being whipped to the sides you either get heavier or you just feel that vibration so it's very very little uh force so anyway um all of the motion while we're on the surface the boat doesn't dive until it's way out into the atlantic and as i said it's a sewer pipe with end caps it rocks and rolls brother and that thing it just knocked me for a loop and i was like oh my gosh why did i come on this boat the hallway's doing this and i'm trying i was like okay yeah so i talked to the uh kid that passes the doctor on the boat and they gave me this weird thing called a patch oh i never saw that before i thought it was like you know which doctor science he just stuck it on my neck right there so you should be okay in a little while sir i know okay what was that what scopalamine whatever it was well they tried on the navy before they tried it on us now you can get one sure all of my go to cbs you can grab one get me the airport that's right exactly but the navy had him first okay and i tried one of these new things and it worked but it took hours a couple hours to work so while i was trying to work i sat down i asked permission to sit next to the active sonar um and just watch the kid do the sonar uh and once under the water okay um the boat felt like we feel now and i was like okay if i can i can handle this as long as my stomach comes back i dreaded eating in front of the captain and having you know i mean you keep you keep watch checking your watch i'm like oh man you know this is bad i'm like oh my god i'm so anyway uh as i'm sitting there um i'm actually sitting up straight now in a submarine it's not quiet it doesn't sound like it does in this beautiful studio in the basement with a cool window okay it doesn't it sounds there's a cacophony of sound there's stuff going on all the time you hear high pressure air you hear people talking you're hearing machinery it's really really loud in a boat so it's hard to hear yourself talk and then when you make announcements over the intercom everybody has to stop and listen and then you have to no matter what your converse what your conversation is you got to stop and listen because that dominates and you let it pass just like at the airport you know when they start making these announcements you know you know you know please come back yeah when you hear the whistle you stop moving yeah you do and you just stop moving and listen and let it pass so anyway uh several of those things happen too but while i'm sitting there i'm drifting off sitting up vertically you know and i even i made the mistake of trying to move the chair closer to the sonar station they're locked down man okay and they looked at me go haha newbie you know yeah you're a noob man you know and so i go sorry and so i'm trying to get my stomach back i close my eyes i lean back cross my arms and i start to drift off to sleep all right thinking okay i'll get my stomach back dinner will be great it'll be fine i'm not gonna have a problem all right right this is all good and while i'm thinking that i'm hearing con sonar con sonar fast mover fast mover what what i'm like now my heart's going i'm thinking is that a torpedo are we gonna die out here what the heck happened oh my gosh i should never have come on this cruise of course i should never have come on this boat i'm thinking i'm i'm no this is bad i can't believe this the executive officer xo comes around the corner just sauntering around really calm what do you got i'm like i'm thinking faster dude they're gonna give me a torpedo we've been at the maneuver you know get away you know stop decoys do what i'm gonna do you know and this is what i'm thinking i didn't say i'm just sitting there like this you know like a little worried and the kid at the sonar turned to the side and he's away from me and then the xo is up there talking down to the kid who's facing away from me remember i told you it's noisy in the boat he gives the bearing in the range which i did not hear okay but then the xo said how fast is that moving and the kid did a calculation and he turned and he put his arms out like this and said several hundred feet and he said how fast is that moving several hundred knots sir several hundred knots hundred several hundred knots and he's like this like oh okay what's going on you know he doesn't understand what it is now sonar guys are supposed to know everything they hear yes that's their specialty that's why they go to school that's why sub school is so important they have to learn all the sounds they can tell if there's barnacles okay on a frigate's propeller okay and and which one it is and how many rpms it's turning and all that stuff all that stuff from the sound did you see his waterfall display yeah it's just water it looks like the matrix to me i don't know what it is you know it's so you couldn't see a shape there's no shapes okay it's it's lines okay and this apparently was a transient which i didn't even see because my eyes were closed okay um and so he he says to the xo several hundred knots in the xo without missing a beat it's okay son log it and dog it yes sir he said well sir yes sir now log it and dog it no hey come on no no no now seasickness whatever it's gone of course my adrenaline went poof out you go and i got up like a big shot because i'm a big shot right i'm a vip man i've been invited i'm special dinner with the captain you see where this goes where it's going i get up i go up to the xo sir um excuse me i've i know what these fast movers may be is there anything i can help you sir and he looks at me and he goes d'antonio correct yes sir he says you having a good trip so far sir yes sir let's keep it that way and he turns and walks away so i was like okay i'll go back i sat back next to that sonar squirming like a little kid thinking wow this is crazy i gotta get off this boat i can't wait to get off i gotta research this what are these things but his his calmness in that moment told you something didn't it that this is something that they see all the time that's what struck me it's like why was he wasn't even phased it was the term fast mover now the kid had never seen a fast mover before like the kid had never seen a fast mover before like 80 knots maybe it's a concern 350 knots no it's several hundred several hundred so what's the fastest fastest sub on earth 40 yeah maybe okay and see the thing is about the torpedo let's talk about torpedoes yeah because i thought it was a torpedo the fastest torpedo on the planet is owned by the russians it's a rocket torpedo it spews steam out of its nose and coats that torpedo body with a laminar flow of steam so effectively the torpedo is racing into its own vacuum i love it's gorgeous i love it right but still how fast but that's 200 knots however it's the loudest thing in the ocean right you can hear that thing anywhere in the ocean it's what's called a desperation weapon you fire it they know where you are you're dead it's the last thing you ever do okay it's the last act of defiance you know it's like a mouse giving an eagle the finger right right yeah it's that much for you so the bottom line is okay uh it wasn't the squall torpedo it was something else that was really quiet and moving several hundred knots and I wish I heard the bearing in the range you know the angle off the boat in the distance I didn't have that information I couldn't hear that yeah so when I got off the boat finally I raced home and I started trying to figure out what these USOs were because this this sounded like a USO to me and now I'd heard about them I studied them never expected to see or hear from of one and as I'm going through the the USO stuff I'm learning way more about them than I thought I actually knew what are you seeing when you're learning more Navy see them than ever before the Russians I knew saw them they're not the only ones of course other than other people in our own Navy didn't I started talking to other submariners and they said oh on our boat we call those jellyfish which is kind of the joke because jellyfish don't move right the water column right they don't move but if it's moving several hundred knots they don't know what to call they call a jellyfish just to be funny right and just because that's it I mean they have to officially call it something uh you know so there's other boats that call them by uh by that name have these been photographed no they have this is sonar stuff you know it's all sound sound sound coming to the boat right passive arrays all right so they just don't have any idea what it actually is now in the 50s there was a five sub task force with another task force of surface ships off Puerto Rico I thought 60 I think it was 1960 and one of the subs heard something and it started giving chase it didn't know the people in the boat did not know whether this was part of the the exercise or not so they're doing what they think they got to do give chase right they chased it for two or three days it was going full ocean depth and then going all the way to the surface within seconds it was letting them approach and then rocketing off at high speed within seconds yes so this is there's no people doing that correct we don't know well not people right not people nor even if it's aliens and there's no aliens okay that can race and do like a 90 degree turn in the sky either as we may get to okay yeah they don't have to they don't have to right all right so the point is something was out there and they they showed that this in fact was not a machine issue a fake problem an enigma with the machine the machines are all working right sonar system are all on top of their game doing their thing uh so what was it to this day we don't know now uh the uh there was another there was a japanese freighter traveling to japan another incident and this was like the uh kusagawa maru or something like that and it was traveling when all the people that all six crew members on this boat watched these silver discs flying out of the water okay and they actually had the presence of mind to mark the latitude and longitude of where this was interesting yeah okay of course i researched that you know where that latitude and longitude put them right at the southern end of the marianas trench exactly at the southernmost point it's the deepest place on earth yeah that where we can't go the challenger deep right jim cameron can go there well he can but and trieste did trieste did true but a different part of it right so isn't that interesting why there you know is that the point being because they could i've said this before and you heard me say it they go where we are not so if they go where we're not well we're never there so they're safe there but wait mark the pressure is incredible of course it is so how do they mitigate the pressure no that's something else which we'll get to but i do want to finish up on that fast mover thing let's do it it took me uh it was like two years after that trip i had to do a job for the joint chiefs i was actually building a model for the office of the chiefs an advanced model showing the concept uh and that's what i can say so i bring it down and i delivered to one of the chiefs and i sat with them and i know i shouldn't have said it now oh no no come on all right mark you know yeah i shouldn't have said it my brain was saying don't say it don't say it but my words were already coming out because see my mouth says things before my brain gets engaged sometimes so what came out of my mouth was sir what can you tell me about the fast mover program exactly and i'm sitting there and i immediately literally physically went oh literally cover my mouth like oh i shouldn't have said that i shouldn't have said that and he just looked at me and he smiled he goes i can't talk about that i'm sorry oh it's okay sir never mind never mind it's never mind and he said thank you so much he says great work we'll do follow-on stuff with you and they did so that didn't hurt me luckily but again that gave you information oh yeah by saying nothing he said everything i mean and so when i drove to the office i was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry and i drove home from washington dc back to connecticut that's like a six-hour ride i don't remember the drive of course right because i was only thinking i i just drove on autopilot and got back it wasn't like missing time no okay because for six hours i was ruminating about everything i was learning and all the past trip and all the stuff and all the knowledge i was thinking it's like wow they're here holy cow they're really here and they're living in the wilderness and i'm like oh my gosh i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry okay we know that for sure because we see him go from air to water and back yeah yeah well remember the xo said log it and dog it right by the way that was decades ago we're not talking about last week or two months ago we're talking decades ago when that actually occurred so they were tracking them way back then in our u.s navy okay okay understand that so now you come forward now and you look at arrow and atip and all these other uh project uh activities and you have to say now these aerial objects that people are seeing are they also the same as the underwater objects and i believe they are because based on you know going transmedium and darcy where has done a great movie on this called transmedium it's i'm not plugging but hey it's a great movie watch it right so but transmedium capabilities will be automatic depending on the technology used to move that that ship around okay so that said um they could be the same object the the uh the uh kichikawa maroon folks saw these silver discs coming out of the ocean and flying well they're transmedium right in front of you a water to air water to air water to air over and over as they see these discs come out right so clearly they can do both all right and there's reasons why they may be able to do that right so hearing from literally one of the people that works for the president of the united states say to me that this is something i can't talk about to me it's an admission that it exists but kind of all knew that you know at that point but hearing it from that level it's just like blows your mind actually say wow i can't believe i heard this so what's your take on the current disclosure narrative do you think we're being prepared for disclosure day or is it a psyop well you know i do a lecture about um in part why uh the government's actually assisting in disclosure and one of those things is they work through hollywood too okay think about the show the movie the day the earth stood still of course clout too right okay great well that was a that was a message that message was we warn you about using powers and nuclear power you got to be very careful blah blah blah okay then remember uh movies like uh close encounters of the third kind well in there the aliens are benevolent but they don't have a concept of time they return people stole decades earlier but to them it's nothing but to the people coming back like where am i right right so that actually was a cool disconnect and of course you know i work with douglas trumbull who did the effects for that movie okay i didn't work with him then i worked on for 10 years but he was a just like a grandfather to me well just as an aside yeah douglas trumbull has built the most famous ufos in movie history was he a ufo believer as a matter of fact he was he was that's how we met i did an npr show about x files of connecticut and um during the npr interview they said well you know this this special effects guy douglas trumbull my idol i mean i i've watched stanley kubrick's 2001 like dozens of times i loved that movie i loved how trumbull created all the everybody on the planet has seen his work of course everybody everybody yeah and so he said next time i'm going to get you on with doug trumbull i went yeah yeah yeah yeah you know i'll tell you that's so i was like wow so i didn't wait i got home from that interview on npr and i wrote an email i found for douglas h trumbull and i wrote him telling him everything half hour later i get a one-page email back from the man himself wow whoa and he says been to your website fxmodels.com wow excellent in every respect we could use you now can you come up and meet like i'm like hyperventilating at that point i'm gonna meet the the just oh my gosh blade runner oh my goodness yeah yeah so i meet the guy i go up there to his studio his studio oh yeah it's a studio out in the middle of the woods in massachusetts okay and i meet in his office i look around this office well there's blade runner paraphernalia there's the helmet from brainstorm you know i mean all these things all around everywhere okay i thought to myself gee wouldn't it be cool if i did some cool props and he had him on display in his office someday you know and that happened eventually so what did you get in his office what'd you build oh i we worked on um there was an apple ipad pro commercial for the super bowl okay we did that commercial on site and uh i was in charge of doing uh just one artifact one effect for one small shot and as time moved on doug put me into many other shots and ended up doing 13 different uh pieces of that commercial uh and i even brought my son in to do a particular uh comet crash into the earth's atmosphere wow okay and i had him build the comet and everything um and he now works for the biggest tv station in connecticut and so he's stuck with his journalism and and stuff you know and so forth so is it as a point of fact um you know doug called me his chief scientist which was hilarious and uh so i would always talk he'd always ask me this is he doesn't need my opinion okay this guy has every right to be arrogant has every right to just say look go away you bother me and i'd accept it because he earned that right in my view okay with all the work his body of work but instead he'd say mark what do you think of this and i i've said to him several times he would always yell at me well you want my opinion he goes i wouldn't ask you if i didn't you know and he'd smile and so i gave him my opinion and so we had a relationship where he valued what i said and he was actually very uh uh corroborative he would actually well it's super handy to have a scientist around and collaborative yeah especially with with with uh with um you know space stuff and other types of things didn't metamaterials land on your desk when you were working with doug oh they did you got to tell us about yeah yeah i i held better materials supposed to metamaterials yeah from from retrieval they came from yeah they came from some type of retrieval and um um i'll be seeing one of the guys that uh actually had them uh when you contact i gotta remember his name but he came from mit a materials lab and he came in with the receipts with the results and he said okay this piece here and they had a container he brought the pieces yeah i held them in my hand so i got photos of me holding these in my hands so are they lighter they heavy or they well you know to me they look like normal pieces of industrial cut off you know okay well what is that you know i mean but he goes let's study the material you know i mean but he goes well let's study the isotopes of these oh this honeycomb piece of material and i recognize that because in my shop i have a laser cutter and i have a honeycomb as the base underneath so it looks like my laser cutter honeycomb he goes yeah that's where the similarity ends look at the isotopes and we went through the spectral analysis and he read me all these settings and stuff and it's like well that isotope doesn't exist doesn't exist no that one doesn't exist on earth in a stable form but yeah it's in there now that isotope doesn't exist in a stable form but yeah it's in there now that isotope is in this piece what metals were those in there i don't know don't know that's the thing the metals the metals had uh a combination of multiple different types of metals i mean it's weird to say this but you know how alloys are right there conglomerations well this is one of those but i don't remember the specifics uh he said we could detect uh certain known metals but then there's some we don't know and this one here there's an isotope in here that we can't produce on earth so we don't know why this one is in this piece that you metal that's sitting in the palm of your hand right now i'm like wow now isn't it true that different isotopes could be a signature of coming from a different world well if they're stable uh on earth then maybe not but if they're not stable on earth and you find them built into a a mechanism that is produced on another world well then they could be stable in that thing and even on earth they'll be stable because they're locked in but you can't make them on earth yeah i've heard someone comment on those metamaterials that yeah we can do that in a thousand years with a billion dollars exactly exactly so and and that's the whole point it still smacks of advanced technology doesn't it why did mit choose you guys to look into that because of doug trumbull doug doug is uh he's done presentations for them in the past and so and let's bring this to doug trumbull because they knew he hunted ufos he def he definitely worked he definitely worked saps he just didn't tell he had clearance for sure no he didn't as a matter of fact um when we were working on the uh the ufotog system which was a ufo detection system we were making some strides and he got a call from some dod guys and uh they said we'd like to come see what you're doing he said absolutely f and not wow yeah no you're not welcome wow my hero yeah go f yourself he did not want to be uh didn't want want them in the room you know he wouldn't accept them in there are you able to explain how that uf photog works yeah because you thought it was interesting um because the the system that doug had developed even before i came along okay was that it would track objects in the sky now doug coming from a camera background a physical practical camp background he focused on having a system that could spin around really fast and he had telescopes and cameras and detectors all aimed at one spot in the sky and he could track a jet you're going through the sky and then gather information about it you know okay what's the what's it spewing what's it doing a spectral analysis so okay what do we got you know what's this made of that kind of thing so it had that kind of capability but we wanted to expand it more and i said that doug because he had this all in a humvee on a hydraulic lift remember he's a showman he was a movie maker so he wanted something to look cool and flashy yeah i said doug how about if we do something a little different what if we make platters which each have cameras and make these platters have a solar panel to power them and then just just put the platters out in the desert have them communicate with each other set them up in a triad so all three are linked to each other okay uh and i got that that idea from war of the worlds where the martian landed land in triads and then they would in triangles like right talk you know cover the entire united states i thought we can do the same thing as more of the worlds we'll put one here one here one here separate them by like two miles each that way if this one detects something and then this one down here detects the same thing we can triangulate directly all right because it means it's far enough away that this one can see it too but if this one sees it this doesn't this doesn't this is a local event right and we're just going to get the data for the one okay let's do that so we started working on centralized servers trying to figure out a way to get that data to go there you know in one of the places uh and then you know doug ended up getting sick you know and uh passed away obviously a few years ago which broke all of our hearts you know and his wife julia beautiful lady you know very very uh understanding and uh amazingly supportive man of that of that man uh man he could be he could be a bear sometimes when we weren't doing we were doing a commercial for espn it wasn't working out right and it was two in the morning and he was just getting downright tired and he was just sinking deeper in his chair and he says i don't know how we're gonna get this thing to work and we finally did of course because that was doug you know we always make it work well so he ended up um we ended up working uh you know to try and figure out how we're gonna get the telemetry to work i was working on little xp transmitters trying to figure if that will work too uh and then we actually had an idea for getting the communication to go have it making a round robin at all times you got anything got anything got anything polling and then extracting the data making it available in a centralized database did you get it working no no we didn't unfortunately um and that's okay that's okay because we put the we put the feelers out to get other people involved too we wanted to make sure that people could do it right now there's other projects out there doing similar kind of things but as i started to get further into this i thought these platters would be really cool they'll be self-sufficient and you know all the cameras will be looking you know it's better to have single high pixel cameras pointing at a different plot plot of space with overlapping fields than to have one big giant all sky because the all sky is going to have limited resolution it's going to have warpage and distortion a singular camera wouldn't so we have enough cameras we can cover the whole sky all right and be able to have a high resolution digital zoom capability on every field we want us that we see something in and then we could stitch those together and we want to work on having a methodology for auto stitching views and stuff and to recreate say motion and then tie them to other units to be able to talk to each other well this sounds like you still have ambition to build this i sure do i sure do i hope you do well there's another guy i talked to a guy named dave mason okay he's been on television a lot doing some stuff but he's also an inventor okay and david and i whenever we get on the phone three hours passes and we don't even realize because we're talking about things to do so i would definitely team up with david and i would definitely team up with david and i would definitely team up with dave and he would team up with me i'm sure and we would actually make this happen because i know we can solve a lot of these uh problems like there's ranches out west that people say and this is all happening there's tv shows about it you know okay i think we can solve those okay Okay, because in the network's view, they don't ever want them solved. Because if you solve them, the show's over. That's right. And the profits go right down the tube. So we don't want them solved. Make sure you always have questions so you can have a next season. So there's a vested interest in not figuring it out. But we're science guys. We'll figure it out and blow it wide open. Yeah, we'll get a lot of people mad at us. Can't launch rockets anymore. Oh, well. Oh, well. Yeah. So what? Too bad. So to set up our next break, I've heard a lot of different theories on UFO propulsion. Yours is my favorite because it's not propulsion at all. It isn't. All right. So we'll talk about that in just a minute. Oh, wow. What percentage of photos of UFOs that come across your desk can be explained? About 99.5 or 6%. What is it usually? Well, a lot of people photograph airplanes. Birds, dust motes that are captured in a flash. They call them orbs, right? I mean, but not all of any of those things are planes, dust motes, you know, or whatever. They could be actual things. So we have to carefully examine these to see if we can determine what the conditions were that may have led to them mistaking something ordinary as extraordinary. Because I always say, many times people capture ordinary. They capture ordinary things in an extraordinary way. And that's because of the way cameras operate, right? They do this for cell phones. Cell phones don't just take a picture. That's not how they work. They're actually stacking all the time. They're actually taking multiple pictures and stacking them together to get the final result. Okay? And so that can introduce its own set of artifacts into images. So it's a pretty extensive science. You know? And it's hard to know what people actually took a picture of, what they thought they saw. Because you ask 10 people what they saw in the sky, looking at the same event, you get 10 different ideas, right? I proved that when we were training people out in the Sonoran Desert at a boot camp that was like a three-day boot camp out there. And I affixed a very, very bright light to one of my drones and I flew it up in the air, turned on the light and started flying it toward people away left and right until they noticed. And I affixed a very, very bright light to one of my drones. And I was on the other side of the building from where they were and I heard them all saying, look at that. What is that? I don't know. I think that's a Navy jet. No, no, no. It's something bigger. Okay. Maybe it's a triangle. I'm not sure. It's moving fast. It's got to be moving hundreds of miles an hour. I listened to all this stuff. I'm chuckling because I'm thinking they're demonstrating everything that happens with people. They all see a singular event a different way and that's okay, but they have to really try to isolate what it is they're seeing in the sky. right so uh when i look at an object in the sky there's only so many things it can be right well that's either a star or it's a satellite if it's moving it might be a satellite it could be a high altitude aircraft where you don't actually see the faa lights you know from that altitude uh it could be a black project i mean it could be something like that true we've seen some of those probably sure okay and not even known it okay stealth fighter was a black project for a while b2 was the stealth bomber was a black project for a while we see weird stuff here over vegas all the time you know and that's just not the elvis in person no yeah exactly have you ever had a sighting yourself like an in-person sighting well the uh in the in-person event i had was uh strange i i had okay first of all with our remote telescopes uh with our sky thirst live stream telescope out in the sonoran i have an all-sky camera very high end i built it you know myself make sure it captures everything really nicely and i caught something flying through the sky on that all sky over the course of the night and it did a time lapse and every single uh line of it corresponded to like 15 seconds so for 15 seconds it was going here then 15 more seconds was going there then it was going here and here it literally went but it was a faint light do you have that footage that we can show when we cut this together i indeed will okay great i will send it to you you'll see the actual photograph of this thing moving through the sky yeah so if you're just listening mark is indicating what it it may it goes across the sky and then upwards it veered off on like a 40 degree angle and i've never seen anything do that before um that was weird i've seen airplanes turn that's fine but they have faa mandated lighting on them don't they right you can register and recognize what you're looking at okay but wait mark what about a black project could have been a black project could have been some one of ours but to fly in a configuration where you don't have lights that is only used in wartime in battle zones it's not used over the continental united states because atc needs to know what's up there right you know so it is kind of um interesting that this happened the second thing that i saw again another all sky image was this little tight circle way up in the sky all right very very tiny circle sort of faint but it was a perfect circle it was over across two frames all right that were each 12 seconds long okay so over 24 seconds this thing made a complete circle in the sky how high up do you think hard to tell it's a single point vantage point right but um it was it was high enough so that if it was any kind of light that was on a vessel or a craft or a plane you would recognize the relative brightness you know when something has a brightness of a certain amount it's kind of certain uh altitude you can kind of guess sure But in this case, this object was sort of a dim brightness, and it curled around in one image, it curled half the circle. In the second image, it went the rest of the circle. Same brightness. So I thought, well, is that maybe a fighter from Luke Air Force Base? Because it was nearby. But if it was a fighter, you might say, well, maybe it's an F-18 Hornet, or maybe it's, say, an F-16 or something. And they have a jet nozzle, a singular jet nozzle. An F-18, they might blend one this scene from the ground if it's high enough. And you'd see it as it was going away from you. But what about the other half where it's coming towards you? There's no nozzle there. So that one perplexed me. So those two things I saw were very, very perplexing. Now we've seen reentry of a Chinese rocket. We've seen that. We've seen Starlink launches and Falcon 9s. That's all cool. I've seen them live. I've seen them. They're cool, but you know what they are now. We know what they are now. Have you ever seen a good hoax? I mean, it's so hard to hoax a VFX artist who's an astronomer who's been doing this since he's nine. That's a tough call to try and hoax our photo analysis team, right? Right. For sure. I tend to see a lot of things. But they try, don't they? They always do. Right. I'll give you an example. There was a hoax known as the Dome of the Rock hoax. It's one of my favorites. I bet it is. Because it's a few different angles. Yeah, go ahead. I love it. Yeah, that few different angles was really important to me. Okay, but that's what undid it. Was it? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, tell the story because everybody knows that sighting. Yeah, I figured that's why I brought it up because it's pretty popular. The Jerusalem Old City Dome of the Rock footage, when I got it, it was like, wow, you're hearing people talk about it, right? But you're hearing people milling about, and you're not really hearing a specific comment about that thing other than maybe just an exclamation. And then it does a little, it looks like it's rotating, and then, boom, it takes off really fast. Okay, that's the thing. But when it takes off, it flashes the whole city. Yes. Okay, momentarily. However, there's other images of that. And in the other images, the other videos of this, you see a close-up, say, of this UFO. And it looks like it's spinning, and it has lights on it, stuff you do a comparison between that and the other video they're totally different so what we saw in this close-up is not what was in this distant shot okay because you can tell when something's flashing the bottom light should be going like brighter and dimmer brighter and dimmer at that frequency it wasn't so that was wrong so then i am i disappointing you yeah you are i'm I mean, I knew it was fake, but I love it so. It is really interesting. It's fun. In that part of the city, the city never sleeps. There's always people out. Why wasn't it reported by anybody else? Why was there only like three people reporting it, and it just happened to be the people that filmed it? Right, it just showed up. Okay, and they were at this vantage point, and then somebody was down filming it from below. They saw it, okay, supposedly. What do you think the chances are that all three of those people knew each other? Chances are pretty high. Yeah. In fact, they did. They were all in a film class. Oh, no. Yes, they were. And the guy that was the teacher is the one that basically accepted them doing this little project to fake this, okay? Hey, you know what? It's kind of cool because one of the first things you do when you're doing compositions and compositing is you'll use something simple like a flashing light because that way you don't have ships to worry about and shading and shadows. That's a problem, you know? Having been in the 3D world, I've done 3D animation for television and for myself for decades. So I'm familiar with how people fake stuff. And when I watched this footage, I thought, there's something wrong here, and I'm going to figure out what it is. And when I watched the three different versions of this thing, every one of them was different in ways that made it a fatality in terms of being an actual event. And then we found out that there was an Israeli reporter, I believe, that actually made the breaking news that these were a film class project that was done. And that was like, wow, now I get it. Can you break my heart one more time? Yeah, which one? It's a sighting that's happened many times over Turkey, where in some of the frames it looks like there's two pilots in the craft. I've seen that. I've seen that. I analyzed that one. And one of the issues I had with that one was that the reflection we're looking at is something that's a curved reflection. That's what I'm looking at, a curved shape, right? So you're saying, oh, well, the ship is like, you know, it's got a little like a delta wing. Maybe it's like out of Stargate or something, right, with a little curve to it. And you see those two things sticking up. Well, that one, people said, look, if you zoom in. Fatal words. If you zoom in, you can see aliens. No, if you zoom into anything, you see pixelation. And then your brain makes it into something that you want it to be, okay? Like bunnies in the clouds. Oh, it's a bunny. No, it's not. It's Satan, you know, whatever. Right. I mean, you know, you can make whatever you want because your brain manufactures it. The pareidolia takes over at that level. You know that. They hate the P word. They do. They do. It's the P word. That's right. Sorry. But that one. That one. Let's talk about that one. No. That one. That one, it looks like right now, and I haven't gotten any more data on this, to be honest, so we'll let it rest as a potential unknown, okay? So, and we'll break your heart entirely. Okay. Okay? It looks like a potential lens reflection at the edge, okay, that we're looking at there. I know exactly what you mean. You do, don't you? I do. Yeah. I mean, you kind of got cameras all around. You kind of know. Right? You get some kind of weird reflections, especially when you have bright lights on the water. And in this particular case, there were bright lights on the water. You know, there was a distant ship, and that distant ship at sea could have caused an edge reflection in the barrel of the camera. And I leave it at that, because it could have been that. You know, was it that? I can't say for sure, and that's the mystery, isn't it? Are there any that you haven't solved that you're like, this is the real deal, that 0.5%? You know, the two I caught in the all-sky cam, yes, they're mine, but still. Those are points of light. They're points of light. Any craft, shapes? Yeah, I haven't seen any that I could be, say, are convincing. Right to my heart. I know. I'm sorry, but I'll tell you this. Okay. Remember the Belgian Triangle? Sure. Okay. The photograph of the Belgian Triangle? Well, that was found out to be a model, okay? And it was a styrofoam model with lights on it, and that's why it was so blurry, because they couldn't, you know. Right. But they used that as a potential for being the Belgian Triangle, and they ended up becoming the standard. The standard image of the Belgian Triangle, a hoax image, was created as a, and said it was a standard triangle. I'll tell you this. My sister, who doesn't believe in this stuff, her name is Beth, called me at two in the morning one day and said, Mark, there's something outside my window. Well, is it a person? No. It's a craft over my house. I don't know what to do. She doesn't believe in UFOs. Never has. Very practical person, okay? I said, describe this thing to me. I didn't say, is it a thing? I said, describe it to me. Well, it looks like a triangular shape. It's really dark, but at the ends of the end points, there's like these red lights. Really? How big are the lights? Well, they're about, she tried to say that they're like balls sticking up in the three corners, okay? I said, is there anything in the middle at all? No, I don't see anything in the middle, but it's moving slowly across the yard. It's pretty high in the air, and I heard this humming sound. I don't know what it was. I don't know where it's coming from, and I opened the window, and I hear it. It's coming from up above my house. Now, my sister is not a hoaxer. My sister is practical, and this was, I'm listening to a shaking voice, and she was panicking. I said, all right, calm down. It's not going to hurt you, all right? Is it moving away? It's moving toward the trees at the end of the yard, and it's going to go over, and it's going to end up in the rest of Plainville, Connecticut. She said, but I can't really tell. I go, why? Because all the power's out. Oh, yeah. Plainville's out. All the lights are out. All I'm seeing is this thing in the sky. Wow. So is the power outage related to this thing in the sky? Maybe, but a power outage isn't going to wake someone up out of a sound sleep either. So what was that? So she witnessed something that I wished I could have seen, and I thought that was a really, really interesting observation. I'm glad that you said that. I thought you were going to tell me it was a drone, but we don't know. No, it's something we don't know. And again, she can observe, obviously. She's very good at it, but she's not someone that can say exactly what she's looking at, right, either. So she left it to me. But by describing it, she literally was describing a triangular craft that had lights at the three vertices, you know, and they were red, a dull red. But she said they were weird looking. The lights were kind of weird. Hard to look at, but not too bright. Yeah. And I've heard that before. I have too. And she's not, she isn't into that, any of that at all. I've heard sometimes the lights seem to be moving within the shape, but. Yeah. And they're hard to look at because they're weird. It's a weird type of light that the eye can't really figure out. And that might be perhaps part of the propulsion or whatever we're looking at. Who knows? So last one, Phoenix lights. Oh, yeah. Flares or why is it seen across the whole Southwest all night? What happened? Yeah. And that's the, you said the last part you said is very important. Okay. Seen across the Southwest, all across the Southwest. The Phoenix lights were not the flare drop exercise that is so often shown. That was an actual flare drop over the Astralis. I've been there. I've been in the Astralis looking at that site. Okay. Those were flares, parachute flares, but they're not the Phoenix lights. There's no actual imagery or video of the actual Phoenix lights. So what we see are those are the flares? Those are the flares. That thing that's popular from 1994 or whatever it was. That's the actual flare drop that occurred, but that's not the phenomenon that occurred all across Arizona. Nobody captured it? No. It was like, as far as I know, if there's stuff out there, I haven't seen it. You know, none of us have, you know, as far as I know. But that was not the flare exercise. I mean, that was not the object. That was actually the flare exercise. You know, and the thing about parachute flares is the first one that comes out is the first one to go out. Right. So they drop and the lowest one is the one that has dropped the furthest, meaning it was first out. So it goes out first, then this one, then this one. Well, those are parachute flares. Right. Because their lifetime is, you know, based on, you know, how long they burn. The first one out is going to burn, you know, for, say, 12 minutes or eight minutes, and then it goes out. But it's going to fall the furthest as well. And then the second one will be a little higher. And that's what we saw. It was sort of in a weird line. But the news grabbed onto that flare drop and said, this is the Phoenix Lights. But everybody was saying, that's a flare drop. And they were right. And it was not. Unfortunately, it doesn't discount that the Phoenix Lights actually occurred. What it says is you accurately said that this is a flare drop, and it was. What you didn't say, though, was that people all across Arizona saw this boomerang of lights moving through the sky. Absolutely. And I'm sorry, but when you look at something like that, and you get cases like that, people who don't even know each other reporting the same thing across a path that you can then extrapolate, that means something. You just said earlier in the break, that's how your analysts work. You separate them. I do. I do. I separate the analysts, and I have them do all the work separately. And then we combine our research at the end to come to a common conclusion. Consensus. Only after we've done all of our own diligence. I think that's the way to do it. I agree. So when you have all these separate people around Arizona reporting a certain thing, kind of all the same way, that means something. I agree. My gut tells me it's something, but my gut isn't good enough. I like data. Me too. I'm a data guy, and sometimes the data doesn't tell us everything we need to know, or doesn't tell us exactly what's happening. We don't know. So Phoenix Lights is a bit of a mystery. We don't know what it is, but could we figure it out someday? If it occurs again, ta-da, right? We can do it. Why are most UFOs round? You know the answer, because you're leading me on. I know you. Okay. First of all. So this is your propulsion, your theory, which I love. It's not my theory. It's actually a theory of a good friend of mine, Robert Schroeder, who wrote a book called Solving the UFO Enigma. I think it's out of print. But He covers in there that if we consider advanced physics and string theory, that we'll be able to take advantage of multiple dimensions. Avi Loeb even mentioned that he thinks maybe they travel interdimensionally as well. I don't know if he mentioned it when he was with you. He did. Okay. So the actual definition I'm sure he couldn't talk about because we don't really have a full definition of how that would work. But we do have a concept. And the concept is absolutely thrilling. Because this is something that, well, this is something that got me a real cowboy hat. Now, wait, what? I was presenting in Texas at a big conference. And I told people this process. I said, this is probably the only way it can actually work. And I explained how this interdimensional travel possibility can work. And we're going to get to that. And there's a guy in the front row. Cowboy hat and boots. After the lecture, he walked up to me and he said, I got to tell you that everything you said, that just, that closed all the loops, man. That's exactly how they work. It's got to be because everything you said is reflective of everything people have seen. He says, you know, I want you to have this. And he took his hat off his head and put it on mine. I'm like, that's your cowboy hat, man. You don't give up your boots, your horse, or your hat. That's right. He goes, well. Well, this hat belongs to you, my friend. All right. I shook his hand and took it off. It's in my office at home. That's a big deal. All right. So why was it so impressive? Why does it resonate? The reason it resonates is because it answers the age-old question. If the universe is so big and so vast, how can they possibly be here? That's my hang-up is the distance traveling. Not me. Not anymore. Ready? I'm ready. Okay. So consider this. Everything we've ever done is in four dimensions. X, Y, Z. X, Y, Z moving through time. Time's a dimension. Here's my hand over here on the left at a certain X, Y, Z coordinate at a particular point in time. One second later, it's at a new X, Y, Z coordinate at a different time. Yes. To get here, I move through every point between that first point and this last point. Okay? So motion takes us through specific X, Y, Z points all throughout time. Right? Voyager. 30 years to get out of our solar system. Traveling linearly from Earth. All the way out. And every point between here and Voyager was crossed by Voyager. Okay? Yep. So wormholes. Einstein rules and bridges. Yep. All in the four dimensions. They are not something outside of our time. And when we get into this, people say, well, what about time travel? It's all about time travel. No, it's not. No, it doesn't have to have time travel involved because I believe time is linear. I don't believe we can go back in time and get rid of Hitler. Okay? I don't believe. We can do that. Okay? Block universe theory? You don't subscribe to that? Not really. I mean, I think that one of my issues is that if we look at the way the universe is constructed, we're looking at it from the point of view of understanding four dimensions. No other dimensions, no other realities, no other possible, nothing else possible. I had an occurrence in my shop. And I was doing this thing that bordered on interdimensional, possibly. Okay? What? Yeah. This is something where I was working on a prop for a movie Doug Trumbull and I were doing. And I was working on this prop, really excited. It was 3.30 in the afternoon. Okay? In fact, I was trying to finish this thing up to show Doug because I was really excited about this thing. I plumbed it for liquid nitrogen. We were going to have liquid nitrogen spewing out of this thing. It was an EMP device. And so as I'm working on it. And I see this semi-transparent creature walk into my special effects shop. And I'm rubbing my eyes looking, what is that? You know, it looks sort of like water without the shine. Kind of a glowy, not glowy, but sort of like undulating mass of something. And I'm taking off my glasses. I'm looking at it going, is that real? And I'm looking at it and thinking, that looks real. So I walk over to it. And as it starts moving, it's making rhythmic motions like. A dog looking at itself. What? Yeah, no kidding. It's weird. Okay? Now, you have to understand, this is on the heels of seeing people that weren't there in my house. And also hearing voices of people talking that weren't there. Didn't you leave that house? This is my new house. Okay? Okay. Now, the other problem I have is that about 35 years ago, I had brain surgery. You know, I'm not an easy case, man. What can I tell you? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. No, but. So what happened was, they operated, and I thought maybe this was part of the latent injury manifesting 35 years later, 30 years later, whatever. Did you say, hey, Doug, do you see this? No, he wasn't in the shop. Oh, okay. I was in my own shop. Okay. Building it to bring up to Doug. Right. Okay? Or I was like, Doug, what is this? I absolutely said it. You know? So I had been previously seeing people that weren't there thinking it was just, you know, my brain is replaying images it saw in the past. I saw a lady in a dress, which scared me, because I turned around, brushed my teeth, and there she was. I was like, oh. And I dropped my toothbrush on the tile, and that loud clack made her, whoop, she was gone. You know? I was like, what is that? Now, other people would say, you're seeing ghosts. Okay, maybe. Okay? But then, I saw a guy walk by my door in a sport jacket. Now, I couldn't really see him. I saw the cut, because it was sort of like a. A grayish, semi-transparent thing walking by. But it walked like a person, and it had squared off shoulders. It looked like a guy with a sport coat on. And I'm like, man, I don't remember seeing that. You know? I literally was saying, well, I don't remember seeing that in the past, but I must have. Same house with the woman? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay? And so, then I would hear people talking. And they're not saying, you know, go kill your family. Nothing stupid like that. What I was saying was, you're going to go, yeah, I'll be there. I'm going to go there. Well, who are you going to go with? Yeah. I'm going to be there. But you see a nine o'clock. I mean, just like random talk like you hear in a crowded room. Right. You know? So much so that I went to the doctor, and I had to start taking a drug to focus, because I couldn't get focused, because I kept hearing people talking everywhere around me. It got so bad that one time I was watching or working on my computer, and my kids were banging around on the floor above. Like, oh, what are they doing up there? Bang, bang. You know, I hear them yelling. And I'm thinking, their mother's asleep. I run upstairs. I run upstairs. Empty. Dark. I run upstairs to the second floor. Sound asleep in their beds. So, what I. As a scientist, you know this sounds like schizophrenia. It does. As a matter of fact. However, it wasn't. I wasn't becoming somebody different. Right. I was just hearing things that weren't there. And so, I actually wore a brain monitor. I went to a neurologist. I had them at the Ayer Neurological Institute put a brain monitor on me. I had a thing to press whenever I saw and heard these things. I did, okay? Now, this thing that happened, right, is something that, you know, I'd see an object, I'd press the button. Okay, I see something, press the button, see something, press the button. They looked at the data. Yeah, nothing there. Your brain looks perfectly fine. Okay. Now, cue the dog. The dog walks in, curls up. It looked like a Pekingese, one of those little yap-yap dogs, right? If you have a yap-yap dog, I'm sorry. But it comes in. It's curled up. And it looks like it's licking itself, right? Now, I'm a stable guy. I don't have weird crap going on like this, okay? So, what do you do? You know, where does science go in the face of the unexplained? I keep saying that. It's like a mantra. But that's what I say. So, this thing curls up on the floor. And I walk over to it. And what happened next changed everything. Because I stepped on it with my left foot. And it felt me step on it. And it got up and ran out of my shop. But took my foot with it. What? Yeah. How does that work? I don't know. But you know what it felt like? I can tell you what it felt like. If you wrap a bungee cord around the base of your ankle or base of your foot, okay? And you start the tension and you have someone run away with it. There's only so much ability for your leg to keep putting pressure to keep you on the ground. Then it's going to fly off and you're going to fly up. That happened to me. My left leg flew out. I saw my left foot briefly in the sky. I felt this tremendous pain in my left knee. It hyper-excited. It extended. Then I saw my right knee coming up with my right foot. And the next thing you know, I'm falling. And I hit my right shoulder on my workbench, my left shoulder on the concrete floor, and my head on the concrete floor. When was this, Mark? This was, oh gosh. In my visual effects shop, this was, I'm trying to remember when we did that movie. Maybe. I was trying to get a sense of what was going on. I'm thinking maybe it was around 2000. 2011, 2012, maybe. I had to think about that. I don't remember directly. And then, so now I'm on the floor hurting and I get up and I'm in serious pain. My leg's killing me. My head is bleeding over here. My shoulder, I can't even move my arm. But aren't you going, what the hell was that? I'm getting up going, wow, what the hell was, this is crazy. And I actually say the words, did you see that? And I'm like, what an idiot. There's nobody here. what am i saying and i was like blown away because now i'm thinking well this is one of two things we hear of ghosts interacting with people and hurting them and whatever but i don't believe they can actually hurt you i think they can make you hurt yourself okay okay but you're not going to make me hyper extend my knee okay or and i coined the term for this maybe it's a parallel universe intersection ah and this is a parallel universe creature that just is pushing into our universe because of the concurrent or or so i say coincident spheres of universe poking and prodding they're always moving maybe in these certain different ideas about parallel universes maybe it's poking and prodding where you see a little piece come through philip k dick believe this yeah and if you're there you see it yeah you believe and then it goes away and it's gone right and if your house is at a potential location where that kind of thing can happen you're not going to be able to get out of it you're not going to be able to get out of it you're not going to be able to get out of it you're not going to get out of it maybe you see more of those things than other people do i don't know so time travel no multiverse yes that's where you are yeah okay yeah and i i think that's very possible i mean and i i called it a parallel universe intersection a pui you know and i found a lot of other people using the term now which is cool because i do think we need to research this yes i'm not saying it's actual i'm not saying it's real i'm not saying that what happened to me isn't some strange confluence of of crazy i don't even see i don't even know what the word to put for that until we know why the wave function collapses i think everything's on the table it's all there and you're absolutely right you know so until until we know what's really going on in the quantum world right we're not going to find out uh what this stuff all means so um this also gave me another revelation and that was maybe people that see ghosts and people that think there's parallel universes maybe they work together maybe they can you know two things can be right at once and maybe there are ghosts and maybe there are multi-dimensional beings seen across universes and maybe they just appear in our four-dimensional universe in the same way so maybe they both exist so i can see aunt mabel okay and it's really aunt mabel it's really her yeah it could potentially be and but maybe i'm seeing a lady in a long dress where i don't even know who she is and she's a parallel wholoper who's just as surprised to see me as i am to see her right that's what's interesting is these these worlds collide but they're aware of each other it's not like you're just observing yeah yeah think about that stepping on this thing and having it yanked my leg off from under me that constitutes rudimentary communication across some gulf yes and that's what is that gulf parallel universe i don't know the ghostly realm maybe see our terms are not our terms are not sufficient to describe what's actually happening here so and i've said this before today's paranormal could be could be tomorrow's science we don't know we don't know we don't know but today's paranormal could be tomorrow's science and maybe this is an example of that happening i don't know think about that isn't that crazy it is i did i didn't expect this story yeah well i'm i'm not crazy okay i know that i'm very firmly grounded okay but when things happen i'm open-minded enough to say we should explore this and i think this is one of the things we should explore so let's see if we can explain how that fifth dimension would work okay let's talk about uh in terms of propulsion uh and and when i say this it's going to sound crazy until i explain ufos don't need engines in my view they don't need them they just need the ability to translate from one dimension to another how do they do that well we have to go down to the fundamental forces to see that we have a strong force a weak force electromagnetism and gravity right right and gravity's the weirdo yep right physics physicists hate that one that's right they do and the reason is because the other forces we can define as functions as a weight function we can describe them as with an equation or as a particle their duality right light is a photon it's a wave okay an electron is a wave okay and it's a particle right we can define it as a probability equation right yeah or as a particle that happens with all the quantum uh particles except gravity which is 10 to the what 30 second power weaker than electromagnetism yes and nobody knows why and nobody knows why the hierarchy problem that's right and so exactly and why is it why is it yeah exactly why is that even why is that hierarchy problem even there we don't know but we have a clue right we have a clue and that clue is because you're not seeing all of it okay why is it why is it we're not seeing all of it because we're in four dimensions what if there's more what if there's an other dimension what if there's a fifth dimension well how do we even what's that mean what does a fifth dimension mean okay well we have to change our physics to understand that because as i said before everything we ever done is in four dimensions we've gone in four dimensions to go everywhere we've ever done everything is four dimensions as such we only know four percent of the universe the rest is dark matter dark energy and whatever that means whatever that means dark means we don't know doesn't mean black okay so dark matter dark energy who knows but i'll tell you this if we talk about um the four dimensions okay and a fifth dimension we want to talk about it in terms that give us some kind of grab hold in into the other dimensions yeah so we have a new construct and a construct partly is string theory string theory is not proven we don't know that it's real right okay we have no idea but if we can employ let's let's hypothesize for a minute if we can employ let's let's hypothesize for a minute if we can have a fourth dimensional space with a fifth dimensional space too that actually corresponds to one particular variant of string theory called randall sundrum one rs1 okay well randall sundrum one states that there's four dimensions and a fifth dimension if we can access that fifth dimension there's something that's a quality of that fifth dimension that i use my thumb for which is very really really really strange the farther in you go into that fifth dimension it's exponential it's exponential the farther you go in the smaller the universe gets around you so imagine this you travel 12 inches out here you go 12 measured inches on the ruler go into the fifth dimension some distance you travel that same 12 inches from your personal measurement on your ship you're actually traveling a much bigger distance because when you come out that expands to the size that you actually went right okay so that means you could be at the moon but wait don't you travel all the distance from here to the moon took us like two and a half days to get there all right well no because you're utilizing this other dimension so what happens is you translate to the fifth dimension all right from this and this exit point in your four-dimensional space let's say earth orbit you go into the fifth dimension and you translate to a new four-dimensional point over at the moon and you can do that because the space is i think the client called it compactified exponentially so you you can do that because the space is i think the client called it compactified exponentially so you you're really just hopping you're out and back in you're punching out and punching in right that's right now think about right that's right now think about right that's right now think about that okay it makes no sense before you go on that okay it makes no sense before you go on that okay it makes no sense before you go on with that yeah if if if rs1 and for people with that yeah if if if rs1 and for people with that yeah if if if rs1 and for people listening this is a published paper from listening this is a published paper from listening this is a published paper from from i think the late 90s if gravity from i think the late 90s if gravity from i think the late 90s if gravity originates deep within the bulk originates deep within the bulk originates deep within the bulk and it's compactified exponentially then and it's compactified exponentially then and it's compactified exponentially then that would unify the theory because that would unify the theory because that would unify the theory because gravity would just be leaking back to our gravity would just be leaking back to our gravity would just be leaking back to our dimension and it's exhausted by the time dimension and it's exhausted by the time dimension and it's exhausted by the time it reaches and hierarchy is soft you it reaches and hierarchy is soft you it reaches and hierarchy is soft you don't need me don't need me don't need me you got it well so exactly so that's how you got it well so exactly so that's how how that works yeah now how do we travel in that okay well that's because that that's that happens at subatomic level how do you how do you how do you blow that up well see that's the problem we don't actually know how to access it that way mark we don't we don't know no one does okay but we actually have um okay here is the nature of this this process back in the 20s calusa incline right uh theorized that there were calusa cline particles okay uh and they theorized that these particles could potentially have uses and characteristics that might be advantageous to us right but back then they didn't know anything right well go to cern now and there's a detector on that large hadron collider that was built some years back called atlas atlas very different from 3i atlas okay it's a different detector what's it do well in part it was built to do what detect calusa cline particles why they're only theoretical because if we can detect them these are particles that are very very interesting why is that because they allow us to take gravity and actually quantify it in a way that would allow us to actually utilize it is this the elusive graviton yes this takes us you knew that i know you knew that and einstein read this paper i think the first time he read this paper he read this paper he read this paper he read this paper from calusa held it for two years he couldn't he couldn't break it he couldn't break the math yeah yeah because it it actually made sense yes yeah it's difficult when you're looking at things that that don't make sense when you think they they or that do make sense when you think they shouldn't right and then you're going to sit on it like he did he sat on it for a long time right but the point being let's let's let's let's draw a picture okay you have a ufo and you had a You asked me why they're circular. I never answered that question, purposely because I wanted to get to this of that okay when you talk about how we generate those particles we're trying to generate them by speeding protons into a circular uh channel and curving them with magnetic fields right okay well when you take a charged particle like a proton a plus one charge okay made of three quarks okay when we do that we put them into a ring like that to make them go in a circle we have to use the magnetic field and contain it every time we do that protons want to go in a straight direction so when you curve them they generate another form of radiation which you probably know it's called synchrotron radiation yes that's very dangerous so we don't want that okay that's why certain large hand-run colliders hundreds of feet underground blah blah okay the ground protects uh so the problem is that that is the way that we're generating particles to look at and we're doing it crude it's rudimentary we don't have an efficient way to generate particles we just look at how they splash together at the end of the channel right and we based look at the base uh on the basis of that beautiful collision uh we can follow the trails and build digital paths that they take and say oh look that's a quark you know this one has charm okay i mean and figure stuff out that way but we're also doing that to try and find calusacline particles notice i didn't say gravitons yet okay because the elusive graviton would would basically theoretically come from the fact that uh all the quantum particles are dual they're dual we have a wave and we have a particle nature so we now know that gravity has waves where's the particle right it's got to exist we just can't see can't see it and the reason we can't it's not in our four dimensions it's originating outside in the fifth dimension ah so this means that when we when we are subject to gravity we can measure it we can calculate its effects we can send we can send probes outside our solar system on exacting paths using gravity and propulsion but we aren't actually controlling gravity we're subject to it because rs1 has three provable experiments that should prove that those gravitons are there and we can't find none of them work it's null it's three we're over three our technology is is not to the point where we can possibly do it i would like to get more information and like to see that we can prove we have to prove string theory we have to actually be able to live within rs1 for some period of time to be able to do this yeah i don't think we're there yet but i do think that this is the way they operate and um let me paint another picture when we talk about the large hadron collider it's a big ring right and we're primitive we have a 22 mile ring that we're trying to make these particles collide and takes us that much time you know in size to actually speed these things up to near light speed to collide etc etc alien creatures probably being say a thousand years ahead of us would have figured out how to shrink their their accelerators to generate particles that they could then use for their purposes all right so when you talk about ufos being round i think they're round especially the 30-foot sport model as lazar calls it right the coop yeah whatever that is okay the 30 the 30-foot diameter size i think that they're round like that because the outer ring is an accelerator these are particle accelerators and they're generating particles that surround the craft and close the loop with gravity they generate these fifth dimensional particles from their accelerators and because they have generated these particles they're pulled into the fifth dimension because that's where they're going so i'll call this way going home too okay and they pull every craft in they pull anything within them into this fifth dimension now that's very dangerous especially in a compressed universe if anything goes wrong in there they're toast right figuratively and accurately okay however if they can pull it off if they can get in there and they can go in a certain distance all right and what they do is they now can punch in at a new point from within there but based on how far in they go that point they go to will be expanded to a much bigger distance so theoretically you can go from here to alpha centauri and a stanford physicist figured this out last i checked he calculated that using uh kaluza klein gravitons if they exist they're about 10 to 16 times stronger than the gravitons holding us to our chairs today right okay he said if we can do that and use these particles like that we could actually get to alpha centauri in about 20 minutes using this technology which is what four light years foreign change 4.3 wow and 20 minutes yeah and we're not we're not we're traveling for light years we're not violating the speed of light because we're not using it you just hop into the fifth dimension and pop in right it's probably going to be like this you know like like zigzagging through space between here and alpha centauri why would you bounce in and out because we can't probably go the whole way we probably can't generate the energy to us so far in that we can make the massive jump we can't and maybe when we get the technology we're going to take a uh a bottle-sized spacecraft and send it to the moon in in two and a half seconds whoa look what we did you know and then bring it back okay so but the fact is if we can't if we do that we're gonna we're gonna probably oscillate in and out okay and this is key because if you oscillate in and out from the fifth dimension to our four dimensions if you do it fast enough well now it's like a frequency right and if you can do it fast enough you're not here you're not there you're sort of in between kind of in that little in-between path at all times so guess what you can be in the deep ocean for as long as you want and not feel any force of pressure no problem you can live down there you can hide from us you can actually have your ufos sitting on the bottom you can have your ship on the bottom and just sit there how does that accelerator protect the occupants ah well see that's the thing the accelerator okay the central core all right is going to be subject to synchrotron radiation as well probably very intense but not as much as the outside no well it could it's radial in all directions but the fact being in the interior you can shield that we can shield the craft to prevent that but that's a that's a taurus how do you how do you protect above and below the plane of the accelerator you don't you don't no you don't have to you don't have to because the occupants are inside in the middle and they're protected okay they have shielding so that stuff is going to surround the whole ship metamaterial would be useful there no kidding right maybe maybe now keep in mind there's another wrinkle i haven't talked about that's micro black holes there's a few wrinkles here but there's a few but but i i love it there's so many wrinkles that it's like is it even worth talking about but yes it is yes it is because i believe that this is the way that it may actually work i think you i think you're right i think so and i think bob schroeder was right too when he wrote that book so micro black holes yeah the micro black holes okay here's what they do okay with with with a tiny particle all right that is 16 times more powerful than the gravitons holding us down it's going to generate a certain percentage of micro black holes theoretical construct we don't see them all the time right obviously so if you do that what are they going to do they only live a few nanoseconds a few billionths of a second but if you keep a a flow around your ship at all times you have a certain net number if you're seeing a ship using them what are you going to see you're going to see the ship shimmer right you see it change color wobble you might see it wobble you might see it vanish and what's it going to eat it's going to eat some atmosphere it's going to eat some light and it's going to eat the gravitons coming from the earth that's right and it's going to prevent the earth's gravity from reaching it it's not anti-gravity it's preventative it's preventing the earth gravitons from getting to it right as a shield okay so that's not anti-gravity per se that's actually just gravity avoidance very cleverly do those singularities affect gravitons out of the bulk out of the extra dimension oh well would you okay let's that's a very good point okay when you talk about those those little micro black holes uh outside the bulk they're affecting uh our earth gravitons because they're actually consuming them right in the way that we don't even understand right because graviton and that emanates from mass that's right okay so all right right go to the higgs boson to talk about you know why we have mass for particles that's another show okay but think about this okay if we have for instance if we have a uh a bunch of these particles surrounding our ship and we have a net number of micro black holes it's going to eat like i said air light all that and and give you visual effects that we see in the literature okay of all the ufos we see this stuff happening is it possible it's cool as a client gravitons in play maybe is it possible that it's just a distant star shimmering on the horizon we know it has been yes that's all true so differentiating between all of this is the tough part within our physics so if we now see that we eat some of the earth gravitons that explains why these things look like falling leaves sometimes to people sure and just drifting because the occupants don't have an up or down in fact when they disappear from one spot sometimes they'll vanish outright in front of you and reappear over there i'm an astronomer we can say that's the autoconetic effect your eye is unable to track things right right so you you look where you think you were looking isn't so your eyes your eyes always dancing around it's an evolutionary trait of our eyes okay so you're never gonna be able to see a point light in the sky and try and follow it around it's not gonna work okay unless it's constant if it disappears you'll lose it and it might look like it's appearing somewhere else not very far away i've done that before and showed people that they're actually looking at a tumbling satellite making a perfectly straight line dash of light no light dash of light no light they say it's here now it's there now it's there wow it's a ufo blinking at us i was taking a picture guys it's a tumbling satellite and there's the proof so it points out the the foibles of the human eye sure so now take that okay and let's go a step further so now um if your your clusacline gravitons are eating a little light a little air whatever then they're going to disappear and they're going to get replaced with more right micro black holes they eat a little bit of our gravity right the gravitational particles that we haven't found yet and now the ship is not subject to earth gravity right if they choose to go from one xyz coordinate in that point point in time to another well then to your eye and right if it was this mug, it would literally disappear right out of my hands. It'd physically not be there. Whoa, it's gone. And then something could appear like here. And it would really have done that. Because when it goes to the fifth dimension, it's really not here anymore. It's really not. Yeah. So as long as they can keep those particles flowing, then they can actually do this process and continue to do it. So the question is, but Mark, what about the energy requirements? Oh, yeah. And the Hawking radiation. Exactly. Yeah, Hawking radiation is very important, right? What do they do about it? Why don't we see that? Well, Doug and I were actually, we were using this technique to try to decide if we were actually seeing UFOs or not. We wanted to create Hawking radiation detectors. Very expensive, okay? And very, very out of reach right now. Well, yeah. Yeah, okay. This is when a black hole evaporates. That's when we get the Hawking radiation, right? Yeah, and we would not be able to capture that. No. No. Not with our conventional systems. So we opted for gamma rays. Okay, interesting. And if we see a thing vanish in the sky and we get a burst of gamma rays, well, that might actually indicate that, because that's going to be another incidental, that might indicate that we're looking at Kaluza-Klein gravitons in play, right? And we have a gamma ray detector on the system. We had one. It was about that big. It was a little horn. And we thought, that's cool, but I want to microminiaturize it. That's what I told Doug. I want to miniaturize this and put them each on a single, single platter. Each platter has one, you know? And he's like, you're going to have like a million dollar platters out there. I don't know if we want to put that kind of stuff out in the middle of desert, you know? I said, well, if we can get funding for doing this, we probably could. And we could gate it off. We could make sure that they're camouflaged, right? The cameras need to be able to see, but it could look like it's a boulder. I could look for visual effects, guys. We can make that happen. We can make a camera that can see and smell and taste and everything. It's only the most important invention. Ever. Only ever. Right. Yeah. So the point being, okay, if you look at the fact that UFOs then are accelerators, they figured out how to miniaturize. They figured out how to make circular pathways and wave guides that are really small. However, they don't shield the outside, as you've said. And what do we have in history? People touch UFOs. What do they get? Radiation burn. And burned. Where do you think those burns are from? Synchrotron radiation. There you go. See, now you're picking it up and you're putting it together too. Yeah. This is where we're going. So it's like, it seems to all match. It does. That's why I got a cowboy hat. You deserve that cowboy hat. You know? Well, I should have given it to Bob Schroeder. But that was his initial thought process. And I'm really very comfortable with this thought process because I think that looking at the universe as vast as it is, how do we shortcut? I mean, if we travel at light speed, it takes us over four years to get that. The nearest star, other than our own, okay? It takes months to get to our own, you know? Right. So how do we do that? You know, we have to do it by literally avoiding the speed limit of the universe, which is light speed. And to do that, we need to actually get out of the four dimensions. Fortunately, people are experimenting right now to try to solve that. Not for UFOs, although they should keep that in mind, but just to solve the hierarchy problem. Yeah, that's right. I mean, the disparity. The disparity in the forces. I mean, it's just incredible. And everything falls right into place. But again, once we realize where gravity really comes from, we're probably going to find that the hierarchy problem isn't as bad as we thought. Right. Because gravity is only partially visible here. We're not seeing the whole thing. Right. So if we see the whole thing, well, that might fall right into line. And guess what? Unification. Yep. Right? We can do that, but it's going to take some time. It's going to take some time. What do you think on how navigation would work in the bulk? It's just speculation, but I mean, what would we do? I mean, see, in the bulk, now you're in a compressed universe. Right. So whatever distance you travel in the bulk, it's literally going to be a translation to another coordinate from within the bulk, too. Speculating, not actuating. I don't know. Okay. But if you travel a certain distance, you don't have to go far. Right. To extend that to a massive amount when you come out. You know? Literally, depending on how far you can go in. Okay, let's talk about UFOs acting in the atmosphere. People say, it's going across the sky at unbelievable speeds. Right. It's making 90-degree turns in the sky. You know? How can it possibly do that? No creatures could survive that. And they're right. Not even them. They're not making 90-degree turns at high speed. This is a punch-in coordinate. All that's changing for them, it feels like we feel right in here now. In this incredible studio. Okay? Nothing's moving. All that's changing is the scene outside the window. They could just be navigating, like, hey, Bruce, make a right. We're a little bit off. Yeah. Go to these coordinates. I think they're the greatest cartographers in the universe, to be honest with you. Well, they have to be if you're not. Exactly so. They've got to know, whoops, sorry, Torg. You got us in a star. Get us out of here. I said, y'all just do as I can, you know? So, I mean, it's really crazy. So, they have to be good cartographers, too. But, yeah, and so, the bottom line is, if they're going to be able to go point to point like that, all the changes, like I said, is their view out the window. They go from this point to that point without traveling the distance. Okay? But what do our linear devices capture? Something going from here to here. And even if it went, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, in a very high speed to our cameras, to our sensors, it looks like it's going, vroom. Right. So, we translate it to a high speed. It's not high speed. It's zero speed. How about that? Zero speed. How about that? I love it. And that's why UFOs don't need engines. They're just translating from one XYZ coordinate to another by doing this transfer into the bulb. All they need is the power generation. And, by the way, we keep mentioning power generation. Where does that come from? Hmm. What could do it? What could possibly create the power needed to do that? Hmm. I bet you you have an idea. I might. I'll tell you. I'll tell you, huh? I might. Go ahead. I bet you do. Okay, here's what I think. Right now, we deal with fission. Nuclear science, right? Yep. We've discovered that if you have exposed fuel rods next to other exposed fuel rods, they generate, you know, these errant particles that come off and heat up the fluid they're in. And, basically, a nuclear reactor just makes steam. That's all it's for. Yep. Okay? Now, but that's dangerous. And, if the water goes away, those fuel rods begin to melt. There's nothing cooling them, right? Witness Chernobyl. Witness, like, with that graphite. The graphite reactor blew the stack, poisoned all of Europe, you know, essentially. Yep. It was fallout through all of Europe, detected. Okay? And I'll tell you a story about how that was stopped, too, if you want, after. But, so then, with fission power, I liken it to being in a deep valley, like a V, like this. Fission is at the bottom. To make it stop, you've got to push the reaction out of that deep valley to get it back to the top. The pushing out is the control rods going down. down to shut down the reactor right that takes energy and you have to be able to do it now the russians have a submarine that that had a kind of a runaway and they couldn't put the control rods down in and it ran away sailors died submarines sunk some sailors were rescued some died okay because of fission reaction gone awry so they couldn't climb the wall of that that canyon to get out to the safety okay that's fission now all you have to do is bring my fingers together and go the other way now you have a point that's where fusion lives a fusion reaction is very temperamental and with unlike fission if fission goes out of whack you melt down you blow up you do a fukushima you got a hydrogen explosion in your in your building because you're you're you're spent fuel rod pools dry okay you get that however in in case of fission here's where you are you're at the top of that top of that little peak and you balance that reaction if it goes out of balance just a little bit it shuts off no nuclear bombardment of anything no no ionizing radiation no Cherenkov radiation no dangerous results in fact one of the fuels for a fusion reactor is tritium and tritium is harmless to us in a sense you could rub it on your skin ah look at me it's like talcum powder it in your skin okay it doesn't penetrate your skin worse it's not or better it's not even cumulative so you will you'll get rid of it you'll excrete it out but mark they say there's no sustained fusion reaction well they say that except that lawrence livermore lab in san francisco is making great strides aren't they they certainly are they have that's right and i knew one of the lawrence livermore lab scientists a good friend of mine in fact one of our observatories is on his land in arizona okay uh top nuclear scientists for for lawrence livermore um and so that um that particular uh that particular conundrum saying that we don't have fusion well we don't however and they always say it's just 10 years away right right 10 more years 10 more years get your stuff together right well anyway it's say they always say 10 more years but uh fusion has come a long way one of the problems with fusion is sustaining it right because we look at the sun we say well the sun has a temperature of over 15 million celsius in the middle and that's fusing hydrogen into helium okay and it's a process called a proton proton reaction you know there's deuterium in there and all that stuff okay but eventually you get this helium isotope okay fine great energy is released yep that's what we want okay but we want more energy coming out than we're putting in okay and that's the problem okay so that's the idea now is well we can fuse a fuel pellet and have fusion occur for a split second yay that's a huge actually that's big yeah we did that several years ago now uh they've achieved something else they actually achieved a sustained reaction they were able to do more of a fusion reaction than before and because they're using magnetic containment and so forth they're actually able to isolate the particles isolate the heat and now there's another fusion process that's making its way onto the stage and that is a fusion process that uses laser bombardment okay that doesn't require the containment like the other now i don't know enough about that yet but it's very exciting it's not the cold fusion thing that people were talking about which of course was debunked fairly yeah okay now i know what you mean it's it's been used in sci-fi but it's not the cold fusion thing that people were talking about which of course was debunked it's been used in sci-fi but it's not the cold fusion thing that people were talking about it's not the cold fusion thing that people were talking about which of course was debunked is is using lasers yeah and so this this multiple laser uh bombardment technique is something that i'm very fascinated by so i'm gonna be following up on that so next time we'll talk about that right kind of a thing i look forward to it right so think about it i mean if you think about it that means that fusion reactors are coming all right well guess what cern is looking for these kk particles laurence livermore is working on a fusion reactor how do you generate kk particles with a fusion reactor marry the two together and now you might generate maybe a little bottle-sized probe to go interstellar you know and then we'll have uh you know uh the first uh aliens coming here saying hey hey no more warp drive you guys cut that crap out now we're not ready for you and you're not ready for us you know i don't know it's a joke obviously but we're we're entering that that whole uh that whole uh was it zephyrm cochran that's right the first warp drive yeah yeah we're entering that first uh right in that first thing but it's interesting how science fiction leads to science fact it really does it always does and in fact that's kind of weird and it comes from i think a biological evolution all right we can't think of anything with our brains that is actually patently impossible to actually do our brains don't allow us to do that our brains are made from the material universe we have the knowledge of the universe kind of within us right i mean based on our arc or the arc the uh archetypal brain okay we know how it's made essentially we know the organics okay yeah yeah there's microtubules yeah there's a whole zero you know i know about zero point energy no i don't even have to go there i'm talking about just the fact that when you start to think of something fantastical all right is it really impossible to make you know oh we can think of impossible things i'm going to invent something to make my elbow touch my nose you know well we know that's that's an anatomical limitation right right but and we but we know it's not possible but we'll say i want to make something like that but you can't and we know that so we know it's not possible but still we can we can muse about it but we can't actually think of a development that is patently impossible to actually do in the within the laws of physics right because physics everything we're seeing now and i'm sure people are thinking oh i got a few okay and maybe they do okay but the fact is it's all in the your perspective of looking at the of the laws of physics the laws at the quantum levels the laws of the universe okay people have to keep in mind the periodic table is the same here as it is a billion light years away that's right the elements are the same a billion light years away as they are here right hydrogen is the most populous helium's next oxygen is the third most populous element of the universe and it's the third most populous element of the universe and then there's carbon so carbon and oxygen have a love affair yes they've had it for a long time and so we're going to get carbon-based life it's going to make discoveries it's going to probably uh have intelligence as we've talked about earlier today well let's bring it home by reconnecting to we're talking about sci-fi movies preparing us for disclosure oh yeah let's let's end with that what's what's going on well um you remember the movie prometheus yes yes i do the engineers the engineers we're going to wipe you guys out because you were a failed experiment right and we took issue with that we did yeah we rose up they had they had a couple of good points but i i get you yeah but but the message there is uh humans are are are a bad invention and you gotta keep your heads down just in case life was seated here uh we want to be careful not to get our way out there you know and and start announcing ourselves before our time yeah that's dark i'm kind of i'm more of a dark forest guy you know i'm like i'm gonna keep your head down kind of like stephen hawking maybe let me keep quiet you're too late too late you know why i do go ahead go ahead two and a half billion years ago yeah okay oxygen built up in our atmosphere i knew you were gonna say that the blue freaking marble yeah it's better than that it's the blazing blue beacon yeah in the universe and you know what we're how far along in human race a few hundred thousand maybe years overall okay and 4.2 million years away from lucy after you know uh australopithecus afarensis right okay well the bottom line is that in that time we're looking for life elsewhere and what are we doing we're looking for oxygen in a planet's atmosphere so it stands to reason that another civilization is going to do the same i believe that fully okay and i believe it just takes about 500 years 300 years 500 years ahead of us to do it more efficiently than we're doing by far so uh for two billion years roughly we've been announcing there's oxygen in the atmosphere this little blue you know blue beacon and test looks for a swath of planets with with uh transits and and uh there's no reason to expect it a test type telescope created by an alien race is going to look for an oxygen signature so we could have been visited for thousands of years then by millions by many different types of of of aliens if that's true uh and i do believe that's possible and if they wanted us gone that's they could do that correct but here's the thing if you're a civilization that creates technology to travel imply the gulf between the stars are you actually going to go to destroy them and conquer them and do an independence day i don't think so no you're not coming to do an alien thing like eat the brains either you're not going to do that okay you're gonna stick your finger in and say stop messing with the nuclear weapons you might do that you might do that you know if they had an interest in us right or they might just an interest in resources or hey tord let's see what they do with the nukes okay okay well you sure we want to let them yeah why not what could go wrong you know i hope they're paying attention right now what's going on i know right but think about that isn't that crazy so the the bottom line is then that um you know whereas hollywood influences what people think i have a feeling when actual disclosure occurs people are going to go that's it yep that's it where's the fireballs where's the explosion where's will smith where's all where's this come on where's the welcome to earth but where's all that you know it's probably not going to happen when you think uh what do you think disclosure day is government knows i i don't think that's yeah well we we know that the navy sees these things and and here's here's what the rule is i found this out it's actually from you know the guys we talked to in the navy they um their uh their operative mission is to observe and report do not engage that's what they do but we want more than hey there's stuff that out there we don't know what it is we want to know there's 15 races here here's what they look like the norm is to observe and report do not engage that's what they do but we want to know that you know like people of earth yes right we had jeff we had uh that's right jeff the gray hey you know and he's always getting messed up right are they going to tell us that are they going to bring out the chart yeah i don't i don't think that there is anyone that knows what the chart looks like oh no no majestic 12 no council of nine i don't know that that was real or false i can't say but i'm not gonna you know throw water on it and put it in you know put shade on it because i don't know okay i don't know what it looks like i don't know what it looks like uh is it possible maybe yeah maybe um you know i've read all the books you know i love uh corso's book you know the day after roswell that was fantastic great talking about seeding technology to societies little by little and or companies it's great i debunked most of it but it's a great book yeah yeah right you know the the uh the nut file he had in his you know file cabinet and all that stuff yeah is that possible it's possible but do i fully believe it well you know come on you know i think we're fully capable of creating kevlar yes the transistor didn't just you know didn't just appear overnight actually it was a combination of a lot of work in the past with with looking at you know uh and or nan gates you know and putting together computer uh you know decision making right so you're going after the reverse engineering argument fiber optics lasers all of that yeah i mean that that stuff i mean there's no reason we couldn't have created that right you know uh because we thought of it and we're trying to put it into practice we are very very um i don't know i don't know what the word is creative people right we are you know you know a shatner would say we are creative right i'll keep rooting for the uh for the gravitons that's what i'm hoping for yeah i think that's pretty cool i think that that's probably one of the only ways they could actually travel long distances yeah and it really ties it up in a knot it makes it so elegant and it makes it it removes the biggest impediment the visitation that exists in the universe right now and when i came to that realization it was like half my head went i was like wow i did the same when i read your theory i said i by george i think he's done it yeah and again i stood on the shoulders of giants so i'm you know i can't take all the credit but i can tell you i can be the mouthpiece mark d'antonio where can we find you online what can we do to support you oh man well we got a beautiful patreon um i only have a few patreon subscribers for our observatories but would love more i'm you know go to skytourlive.org uh we are a non-profit organization i take no money you know i'm i do this out of passion and love for astronomy and i teach people astronomy i've taught classes in bangkok from my house in terriville connecticut okay uh on astronomy showing them the live night sky so we we pride ourselves on showing the universe live in real time you know aj and it's one of those things where once you get going uh they have this nickname for me it's it's mark just one more d'antonio because i i will find i'll look at this last object okay right you're doing an encore right now it's right it's two and a half in the morning and i gotta go to bed okay but wait just one more we're so close let's do this and i show them one more and of course people like that but then all the photos we take are available for free they can download and see these beautiful spectacular objects in a way that they've just never seen because they live people live in light pollution all time you know they don't they can't see what's above their heads because they're not allowed to the lights ruin their night view well i'd love to have you back to go through those images also to go through some photos and do some of that oh but i like that stuff this has been a joy and a pleasure and a treat thank you thank you so much aj i've had a great time bye everybody so that's mark d'antonio and i went down the rabbit hole after we talked so we can walk through some of this mark's credentials check out he's mufon's chief photo and video analyst his astronomy degree is real his company vfx models does work for hollywood and the defense sector he runs two remote observatories in arizona and live streams the night sky through a non-profit called sky tour live that's all on the record and you should definitely check out his live stream the gentry lee story confirmed gentry lee is the chief engineer for the solar system exploration directorate at jpl he directed science analysis for the viking missions to mars he co-created cosmos with carl sagan mark says this guy wrote him back as a nine-year-old lee is documented as exactly the kind of guy who would do that now douglas trumbull was very real obviously he passed away in february 2022 at 79 that was a great loss he did the effects for 2001 close encounters blade runner star trek i mean everything mark says that they worked together for a decade building a ufo detection system that collaboration is documented in multiple interviews now the physics stuff which is my favorite mark brought up the randall sundrum model rs1 now that's a real paper from 1999 published by lisa randall and ramen sundrum in physical review letters it proposes a fifth dimension that could explain the hierarchy problem why gravity is so much weaker than the other fundamental forces the idea is that gravity originates in an extra dimension and only leaks into ours that's why it feels weak cern's atlas detector is actually searching for the signs of these extra dimensions right now including calusa klein graviton signatures but so far they haven't found any but the search is still ongoing the book mark referenced is robert schroeder's solving the ufo enigma and schroeder proposes that ufos are miniaturized particle accelerators generating calusa klein gravitons to punch in and out of a fifth dimension now it's speculative but the underlying physics is rs1 calusa klein theory that's all peer-reviewed and taken seriously and it would explain why ufos are round why they shimmer and why witnesses get radiation burns and why they seem to appear and vanish rather than fly the fusion stuff tracks too lawrence livermore's national ignition facility achieved fusion ignition on december 5th 2022. they put in about two megajoules and got three megajoules back the first time in history more energy came out than would end and by july 2023 they repeated it and got almost four megajoules out fusion is no longer always 10 years away it happened but here's what we have to keep in mind mark isn't asking anyone to believe in aliens little green men grays or any of that all he's saying is that the physics exists that could explain how interstellar travel works the randall sundrum model clues of client particles extra dimensions these aren't fringe ideas they're on the whiteboard at cern and in a week or two we're going to have a physicist from cern in here and we talk about this stuff as for we're in the y files catalog this fits probably the gravity is a lie category maybe the project anchor episode because what mark's describing really isn't anti-gravity it's gravity avoidance and the math at least on paper doesn't break any known laws of physics it just requires technology we haven't built yet allegedly mark's book is called the populated universe you can find it on amazon and if you want to watch him live stream the night sky for free go to sky tour live.org we'll have some links down below until next time be safe be kind know that you are appreciated that was almost one take almost cold inside the bible said i was i love my ufos and paranormal fun as well as music so i'm singing like i should But then another conspiracy theory Becomes the truth, my friends And it never ends No, it never ends I feel the crab cat and I got stuck inside Mel's home With MKUltra being only too aware Did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone On a film set or were the shadow people there The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man And I'm told, and his name was cold but then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth my friends and it never ends no it never ends no it never ends no it never ends no it never ends no i can't believe i'm dancing with the fish no i can't believe i'm dancing with the fish no i can't believe i'm dancing with the fish head to fish on thursday night swiss day j2 and head to fish on thursday night swiss day j2 and head to fish on thursday night swiss day j2 and the wild boars have their feet all through the night all i ever wanted was to just hear the truth so the wild boars have their feet all through the night The Mothman sightings and the solar storm still come To a god, the secret city underground Mysterious number stations, planets are both two Project Stargate and where the dark watchers found We're in a simulation, don't you worry though The black knight said a lot, he told me so I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish Heck, we'll fish out Thursday nights with AJ too And the white balls of the beat all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth So the white balls of the beat all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth Heck, we'll fish out Thursday nights with AJ too And the white balls of the beat all through the night All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth So the white balls of the beat all through the night Gertie loves to dance. Gertie loves to dance. Gertie loves to dance on the dance floor because she is a camel. Camels love to dance when the feeling is right on wasting time. Gertie loves to dance.