Bangladesh's Evolution at Darwin ft. Mohammad Isam

It's going to get there. There it is, a beautiful boundary and what a magical moment. The giant slays of beaten Australia in Australia for the first time. Congratulations, Bangladesh. And the number 19 in World Creature beating the number one, they beaten them comprehensively. They've outbattered them, they've outbattered them, they've outcorp them. Their supporters are up, they didn't expect this, the dugout is now all about. That's thrown 20 falls since the start of the match. Hello and welcome to the PCCI podcast. Today is a red letter day for cricket. We have a host of people from PCCI, Saurabh, Sartha Khritsha with us. But most importantly, on a day that Bangladesh has registered a 9-wicked victory over Australia. We have with us ESPN's Bangladesh correspondent and friend of the pod, Mohamed Isham with us. Welcome to the pod, Isham Bhai. Thank you for inviting me. Right, so I wanted to start with the fact that at Mount Manganui on the New Year's day test in 2022. Under the captaincy of Mohminul Huck, Mushwikur Rahim scored the winning runs. And Mohmin was watching from the non-striker's end. Today, four years, four and a half years later, Mohmin scored the winning runs again through Backward Point. And now it seems like this is a full circle, but there are many more stories to be written. As somebody who's followed Bangladesh cricket so closely over the over many years, how does this victory stand for you and for world cricket? Yeah, I think for world cricket, this is a gift. I think it's a huge gift because cricket doesn't really have a lot of miracles. A lot of upsets cricket is mostly. We know that we know the path of results. You know, we know who wins, who loses. Once in a while, we get a miracle when an associate beats a top team for a full memory. And I love those results. I mean, I love underdog stories and I love to write them. I love to read about them and I grew up reading all those underdog stories in my life and watching those movies. So when it happens to the team that you cover for over 20 years, you tend to, you have to distance yourself from any emotion or any sort of feeling that you have, but then you can use that into your writing in some way. Because it is a, I think sports goes well with emotion. So I feel that whenever Bangladesh has done such a massive thing, I mean, they've done some incredible things in cricket, but also they've done some really stupid things. So, you know, when you get into these situations, you have all those memories rushing to you and you fret a little when Bangladesh are chasing 57 runs. And you think that, oh, something might go wrong. But, you know, and then you tell yourself, no, no, no, this is quick kit. And this team has done well for so many over so many hours in this test match. They are not going to mess up. And then you see how Australia is just going through the motion. And then you tell yourself, no, no, no more accidents. You don't have to change your match report intro. You can just go for it. So, you know, it's, it's a, it's a full circle of emotions to you. You mentioned Mount Manganovi. It was during lockdown in many countries. I think it was still quite bad in Bangladesh around that time. And I remember that I would wake up very early in the morning again to cover that test match. And again, it, it feels like an onion, you know, one player each one day giving you something new. So many twists and turns, but this was this was different. I think, I think this had a more directness to this result. Hi, Sam. I actually, you mentioned about the ending and it's meeting like an onion. I want to speak about the last half an hour and I want to bring back some painful memories for you. So, I apologize at this start in Bangalore 2016. Bangladesh needed one of three worlds. Mushweak, one of the better battles to have ever come out of Bangalore wasn't the trees. Before him, it was my Madhulla. Sorry, after then, the next world was my Madhulla. Swami Sarkand did defend four of one world. And this is something deep in a way associated with Bangladesh cricket, where, you know, at the time when they could have done so much, the quarter finals against India in 2015, maybe the short ball could have been just differently or maybe not. There would be Nisha Cup finals similarly. Today, as Australia bolded that first pair, Lanthan Zeev got out and then Stark Hazel would come and skame all guns firing. And then they gave the ball to Nathan Lan and Bo Webster who tried to make Moominul and Shadman play the big shots. They wouldn't have won, but let's see how your nerves are. And Moomin and Shadman kept leaving the ball, kept leaving the ball. And just tapping it, over before the last, Moomin steps out to Nathan Lan and just chips him. He doesn't try to hit him for a six, some six to seven runs when he did. And even the last ball was played as a touch cut, not a full-fledged cut. If some talk to us and our listeners about the change in the amount of steel, has it come from Moomin, has it come from Filzaman's, what have you observed that that has led to the point where Montmanganoi Park is the two wins in Pakistan and now this are just such serious grown-up wins that you associate with New Zealand, South Africa. Not necessarily Bangladesh. So what has brought about this change? Well, it's a, it's a, you've gone for a long art. Yeah, I mean, that Bangalore game, of course, I remember it very, very vividly and as you're describing, I can, I can remember every sort of over of that game because I, I was, I think I was writing the match reporter writing something from that game. So it was something that I remember. And of course, it has been talked about so much. And that's not the only one you've spoken about the Dinesh Kartik 6. There has been a few, few others where they stumble right at the end. It is a very tightly-knit circle in Bangladesh, in terms of the cricket team circle that I'm talking about. So the people you're spoken about, Shadban, Montmanganoi. Montmanganoi was already an established desk cricket around that time. In and out of the ODI team, Shadban was just about to graduate into the undernight, from the under-19s into the national team. He would definitely be seeing the likes of Moshek, Mamudullah, and Shomu Sarkar around that time. So, and every story in Bangladesh cricket, we live it. Every incident we live it. You know, everything that has happened, we have gone through all of us together, and we have shared that sorrow and that joy. So everyone learned, and as you said, they were careful towards it. I think, I think it wasn't obviously, I'm pretty sure they were not thinking about Bangalore, but they must have been a little worried about not giving away too many because, because the statement of winning big in Australia, 10-week-at-win, 9-week-at-win, 8-week-at-win, that, you know, says a lot. I think this team has come to the stage, and obviously it has been helped along the way by all these senior cricketers, all these former cricketers. Now they're former cricketers. So I feel that because of how everyone has shared in these sorrows and in these joys over the years, we have learned to adapt to these conditions, these moments. The players, you know, you spoke about Shadban, you spoke about momental, momental, obviously. A flagmatic character doesn't really smile or laugh or show any emotion for that matter. Shadban also very coy and very, like an elite opener, you know, he doesn't really show a lot of emotion too. So you've got two kids, two guys, I mean, momental obviously not a kid, but you have someone like Shadban out there, someone like Yatansi out there, these, they're battle-hardened cricketers right now because we, of course, Mushpik and Mamdul were also battle-hardened cricketers. But, you know, it was in that moment and Bangladesh were going through a phase where they got very close and they were not used to winning close matches and then they started to get used to winning close matches. Case in point, the two matches against India during the 2022 home series, Mehti Hassan Miraz, right out there, nine wickets down for, I think, 117, you need to 30 runs with most of the Faisal who's not great with the bat and Mehti Hassan Miraz is to win that game. Then the next day, obviously, six for 60 yards and then they won that game as well, Mehti's going to 100. So for every Bangalore, we also have a few other situations. Of course, Lytondash of Flaid has started to bring the team back from the dead in Test cricket, Dunedin Raul Pinbih has done it in Sillet just a few months ago. So, you know, managing to bat with the tail, chasing a total, and all these types moments, they have started to grow out of them and they have started to catch up to those moments. I think they don't feel overwrought by superstars in front of them. I mean, they're respectful, but I'm sure that they no longer fear them like they used to many years ago. Also, I think it's not just the superstars that they fear. They also fear that last hurdle that we just spoke about. I think that fear has also passed away, but I mean, it's sports. It'll come back. I mean, you ask a Boston Red Sox fans from the 80s or 90s, they'll tell you that Bucky then, you know, let that ball go through his legs behind the bag. That's what the famous phrase is. So they don't forget, a bunch of these fans will never forget Bangalore, but now we have a generation. I'm not going to say with generation, but I'm going to say that this generation of cricketers or fans, they are used to seeing better things. So we would like them to remember the better things as much. So hi, Samai. Just zooming out a little bit on this, where are the middle of August? I've never seen the ETA series in Australia in the middle of August. And this happens at Darwin, which is a, it's known for its evolutionary theory, not for being a test venue, right? So at least that, does that make this win sweeter? Oh yes, so sweet because, you know, every time I get to write that Bangladesh are playing there after 23 years, you know, it just, it underlines the fact that how little Bangladesh were respected by Australia. And it's not just that they didn't invite Bangladesh, they just, you know, called off one, two, or in 2015, two Bangladesh. And they've always had that sort of like a like a bullying, they believe that Bangladesh were not good enough for Australia and in terms of commercial cloud, in terms of cricketing, you know, performance, they just didn't write Bangladesh at all. And I think for a long time, that really isolated Bangladesh, at least isolated Australia from Bangladesh. But, you know, there is a huge population of Bangladesh immigrants in Australia. And, you know, to deny them of their cricket team, because Bangladesh does draw a lot of crowd. I mean, wherever they have played around the world, they accept for Bangladesh, accept for Bangladesh, they've drawn a crowd everywhere. Because these days people don't really come to the ground to watch me. I'll tell you later a little bit about the later, but, you know, even in Darwin, we saw about a thousand Bangladesh, she's turned up from nearby. And as you mentioned, Darwin is nearby to nothing. So people turned up from around Australia. I know one guy, he traveled from Brisbane, one guy traveled from Melbourne. At least I know them. I've seen them on on TV yesterday. And I was really happy to see them there because, you know, these people they're mad about cricket, you know, so they deserve, since they're living in Australia, they must be invited. And so, not playing against Australia for a long time in Australia. You know, it became such a, I mean, I would call it something like, you know, with generation has played in Australia. So only one cricket team before this has done it. So, you know, that has been a huge insult to Bangladesh today. And I think, I think this is the best way to give it back that they won the first at the first opportunity. Hello. Hi. Hi. So, first of all, congratulations. We all enjoyed it in the early hours of the morning. So, my question is, on the narrative that we have heard on the broadcast while these four days passed, there was an excessive usage of the word upset or shock or accumulation for the Aussies. And it's quite, you know, uncomfortable to hear this because for a team that has been scaling up in tests for a long time, that has a very resolute pace battery that did what they did in the recent times. Do you think that how does this come off, or rather does this come off as an age-old disregard for the non-big three teams, where something that looks very obvious, I mean, Bangladesh were not outplayed. I don't remember even a single hour of the play where game got away from them in any manner or they looked disheveled in their plans, in their execution. Yet, there is these almost disconcerting words like upset. It's a shock. So, shouldn't the narrative have evolved by now? Well, it should have, but Bangladesh, to be honest with this sort of they haven't done themselves a lot of favors in that, in that sense. I think they, the test record is still really bad. I mean, in the last few years, they've really turned the corner and they started to do well. And we expect teams like ordinations like Australia, England to know how it is going in Bangladesh, but to understand the vibe here that cricket has changed, cricket is better now. So, I mean, we can forgive them for that for not knowing that, but yeah, I mean, those are words that sometimes can be, those are words that can be demeaning, but I think, Bangladesh is a pretty comfortable with the word upset or a miracle because, you know, there is a huge gap between two teams in terms of rankings. And honestly, Australia came into this test series. You have to look at the two circumstances. Australia came into the test series of seven months, but they've won almost everything in the last two years in test cricket, except for the WTC final. Bangladesh, well, they came into test match 54 all out against cricket Australia 11. So, the fans are, you know, they are weathered. They know what they're about to face. And I think it's good. I think it also keeps the cricketers on their toes because, you know, you just cannot migrate from causing upsets to becoming, you know, the same level because they're not. They understand that there's a huge gap in experience in Red Bull cricket, this huge massive gap in infrastructure between Bangladesh and even countries like Sri Lanka, you know, India, huge gaps. So, I think, I think in that case, taking all of those things into account, it's not that demeaning in the sense that it is an upset. I mean, it is what it is. If it was a one-day series, which happened a couple of months ago, then, you know, I would have been, I would have thought it was incorrect, but the way Bangladesh played in the one-day season, leading up to that one-day series as well. Australia doesn't play a lot of attention to India. So, Bangladesh doing well in Bangladesh wasn't a huge surprise or an upset, but in this cricket definitely, I think it's still okay. I think it's fine to call it a miracle because I would definitely call it a miracle. Okay. I mean, just to quickly add on that, the thing is, okay, I understand what you've explained. The only thing is, leading off a discussion on a match like this with these words. It's like you are first going to acknowledge the gaps in the losing team before you gave the winning team their due credit, right? And as I said, this wasn't a freak spell. It wasn't a freak innings by anyone. This was a very well-constructed match, phase by phase R by R. So, this looked like a very professional team. So, keeping that into, keeping that in mind, it felt like, okay, maybe the narrative could have been slightly more, kinder towards Bangladesh. Well, I totally agree with you. So, I mean, the way Bangladesh built this test match, I don't think I've even seen them win so many sessions. We have that meter these days. How many sessions which team has won? Even against Pakistan at home, when they beat them or dominated them and beat them in May this year. There were times when Pakistan did grab the game. And then, Bangladesh had to resell it back here. I think except for that one little phase where the last three weeks for 23 runs and then we got completely changed the course of the game with those, you know, disfarming the strike for 52 overs. That was something else. So, yeah, I mean, you're absolutely agree with you that, you know, semantics and the words chosen should could slowly get better. But I think one big advantage of winning in Australia is that Bangladesh won in a country where test cricket has a tremendous culture where you see all those explicators there. They haven't made fun of Bangladesh. It's not like getting a bit hooked, coming out and saying something weird. They've been very careful at the start. And then when they saw Bangladesh doing well, you have the likes of victory. Ponding that you had in Adam Gilchrist. All these guys, Jason Gillespie was out there. They were full of praise. And they actually analyzed it perfectly. You had one or two, I think, or one of the podcasts or some journalists may make a rash comment, which is absolutely fine. You know, we get worse in other countries or even at home. So, that's totally okay. I feel that this win doesn't just tell the world that Bangladesh is here in test cricket. But it is also, it is a corner that Bangladesh are going to turn in test cricket. I think they're going to become a very serious test regulation from now. Yeah, it's okay. So, um, taking off one of your words that, uh, it's, um, um, to become a serious test playing nation, obviously, 20 buckets is what we're looking at. And over the last many, many years, we've, the best of Bangladesh bowling has been spin, um, but in the last, say, four or five years, starting with maybe Tuskins emergence as a serious basketballer. Um, and then we reached a point where maybe the two best skilled goalers from Bangladesh did not play this test match, will not play at Makaya, maybe. Um, and yet the win was in large parts, you know, uh, triggered by the incredible spell by Hassan Mememoo on Day 1, Tuskins, uh, with that, especially that ball to go Webster, uh, Ibadah, who was, uh, who was very instrumental in that win at Mampanganum. Um, so, uh, how do you see this evolution, uh, is I'm like, how do you see, um, you know, Bangladesh coming up with a generation of excellent, I mean, there are two, two or three more that are not even part of the test set up. Uh, when Bangladesh play T20 cricket or, uh, odia cricket, it, it is not this lineup that comes out. They have a separate peace attack for that. So, uh, uh, if you could just, you know, uh, draw a picture of how has this happened? What, what has led to Bangladesh, uh, unearthing, and then nurturing, unearthing is one thing. It's, it's easy to discover talent. It's, it's a completely different thing to nurture and nurture them like this. So, uh, how did we get here? Uh, before somebody answers this, sorry, can I just add one more comment? It's a bit, um, so when you said it to be a serious team, uh, certain things need to be done, but I think in, uh, today's setup to be a serious team, you need to be given enough games to be a serious test team, right? That also has to be factored in at some point, right? Yeah, of course, just to answer answer sort of first, yeah, Bangladesh really has taken advantage of the world's championship, because now teams are forced to play Bangladesh two test series, at least, you know, they get to have 12 test matches a year or at least in that cycle, they get to play a number of test matches. So, I think among the better things of this world test championship, the fact that there is a competition and people are going to, not going to select, uh, uh, second string side just because they're playing Bangladesh. It has helped Bangladesh. It took Bangladesh, um, a little bit of time to buy into this, uh, world test championship, but now I think since beating Pakistan in our 20, a couple of years ago, I think they now take it, they now at least take the certificate in a very, in a very, um, practical manner, and obviously, they take it very seriously, they don't just use it to, you know, earn money out of, uh, you know, sponsors. And to get back to the other question, I think Saad Saad asked me about the fast moving, look, it, uh, like everything that happens in the subconscious, it is emotion, it is drama. Uh, you can even actually, I mean, uh, I'm planning to do that actually. I think you can make a drama series out of the way. Taskin, uh, had an epiphany during COVID when the first lockdown scheme, we had a breakdown and he thought his career was over. People's already out of the boundary team for a couple of years at that time. It missed the World Cup in 2019, and then, you know, we so good about it. We would see him in training and we'd be like, oh, remember that last bullet. He, he came up with a beautiful five-week at haul, I guess, India. I think you guys remember that Stuart Vinnie game, a little long game. That was his debut, ODI, as far as I can remember, and took a five-week at haul in that game. But then as fast as he rose, he was not training properly, he was too distracted with all the, you know, the trappings of fame. And then he was gone. He was finished. He lost his pace, he got injured, and then just asked the millions of cricketers in the subcontinent who were in this chapter, having played a few matches for the national team. So he had a epiphany or a breakdown or an anxiety attack, and he called me one of those times. He called me and he asked me, uh, so there's a small cricket ground here in my place and he asked me how he can enter that ground, uh, to bowl. Because all the cricket grounds were closed in Hatha. People had just locked them up and gone home and no one wants to come out. This is peak bend, anything, the first wave. Um, he used to go to the outskirts of Dhaka to run on sand. After he started to bowl at the ground near my place, he, um, we called up his coach, the late Maguwalizaki to his house, and they corrected his run-up in his parking lot, at home. And he got crazy, like he thought, career over, we are going to forget him. Then he resurrected himself to some tournaments, some domestic tournaments, we got back into the team somehow. And, uh, when he got back into the team, obviously, that story came out that Husqin is back, Husqin is lean, Husqin is bowling fast, and seeing him, the foreign coach at that time, Russell Domingo was very interested that, okay, if this kid can, um, you know, he can come back. Let's see what the others have got. So that message was, um, shown around the look Husqin Bhai has done it. Let's all do it. So they started to train better. Uh, it spread like wildfire. You have, you know, Bangladesh already had a lot of good fastballers because of the, the crazy, uh, I wouldn't call it crazy. I would call it ruthless, thinking from the team management at that time, uh, thinking that only spin can win them. As much as also what helped the rise of fastballing was how just that one idea, uh, of the one track mind of just winning with spin, that's hard to fail. You had Dildoan Pereira, you had, uh, Rakhim Kornwal coming in Bangladesh. Rashid Khan blazing through 13 wickets in his one test match, I think 2019, yeah, 2019. So those also, uh, told the team management on the BCB at that time, because it's not working. We need a variety of bowlers. So slowly, a few bowlers started to emerge, Husqin was already there. And then when Husqin started to contribute to match, you know, wins and obviously most of the fees, you know, honestly, I think at that time, even most of his loss interest, that this, this is not a serious cricket team where, you know, they, you don't think a fastballer for a whole series, you let Shomu Sakar bol 6 balls and that's it. That's the only fastball you have. When, uh, I think it got serious when they won the under-19 World Cup, you had a group of fastballers coming from there. I think Shori Fulal was in Sakid, and was out of the gate called Aishik Das, but he got injured at that time, so he couldn't come in. But these two were, you know, right there and Shori Fulal got into the team the following year. You had a flow of fastballers around and then obviously the other factor was Alan Donald, I think, uh, I think many fastballers in Bangladesh just wanted to hang out with him. Such a cool guy. He, you know, hung around practice, uh, spoke to the net bowlers because I think at that time, we see we also made some changes to their policies. Like, they would take, they would, they would actually get some of these promising fastballers like Mahidrana, like Moussha Ikhasaan, like Rickon Wondoll into the Bangladeshness. They were netballers. So in the nets, you would see some of the fastest bowlers in the country bowling in the nets, and then you would wonder who they are. And if you paid attention, you'd see that Alan Donald was giving them extra time after training because these are the marked out guys. Okay, let's work with them. So these guys started to develop. Most of his form was another factor inside a bowl, even better around that time. And then one thing and two things that to another and then you suddenly had, you know, one test match, I think sometime in 23rd, 23rd, when they tried a bouncy track against Afghanistan or Ireland, I don't really remember. And it worked. Tasking nearly got a five-weeked hall. The fastballers took about seven, eight, ten wickets in the whole match. And, you know, these are all like a presidential. I mean, it's not planned. One thing led to another. And then, I think Hassan Mahmoud debuted in 2024, but by that time they had a group of fastballers. Naidrana Hassan Mahmoud, I think, debuted in the same test or nearby. It all kicked off in Pakistan when they won that test series on the back of fastballing. And such good fastballing. We had Tasking getting them the only big teams. There Hassan Mahmoud getting five-weeked halls. You get Naidrana obviously rattled. Babarazam and Rizwan. I mean, I remember standing outside in the balcony in front of the press box in Rahul Pindi. And Naidrana had hit Rizwan. This is shortly after he got Babarazam out. And I had a number of Pakistani journalists asking me what should we call him? He's getting all the wickets in Rahul Pindi Express's hometown. He should be some express, right? As I said, yeah, he'll be, he'll be called the Chappaya Express. He's from Chappaya, now I've guns. Those are mouthful for them. But what I saw at the ground was when Rizwan got hit on the head, I was an empty, empty ground. There's no one there. You could hear everything from the middle. And I could hear a lot of caters, a lot of laughs. And we could see the slip cord and mimicking how the bats, batters were ducking and weaving. And I asked them later, why are we doing this? We've never seen this before against us. You know, batters would never duck and weave. Like every ball was a test for them. And then obviously, Naidrana, you've seen how he has emerged in the last few months. Taskin continues to be good. I mean, every time we think this is it, Taskin probably gets injured or he'll get tired, but he just comes back. Hassan Mahmoud, of course, the special. Dremendous accuracy against India. I think you guys remember Chennai took out the whole top order. Yeah, just they had us wait. I mean Australia had one of those better stand up, but the difference was. Hassan Mahamod is a refined baller now. He knows how to bowl to the middle out. He knows how to bowl with an older ball. Tuscany knows how to bowl with an older ball. So these are, this is learning on the job almost like they know what mistakes they've made in the past or how they fell short. And they just take that one extra step, one extra step. And that's how the fast bowling group has now become the most talked about thing in Bangladesh. And just just a very small follow up has there already because of like you said, Nahit said says and it was a very visceral success in Pakistan has has the trickle effect already been visible in is it reflected already visible in Bangladesh domestic cricket or the pitches being made to eight more fast bowling so that now there can be a now there can be a assembly line of them. Not not not too much, but I think we see we are trying on their own to build that fast bowling base, they are using a lot of fast bowlers in their representative teams and squads. Yeah, I mean some pitches are being developed, but it's slow progress. Bangladesh cricket is also a lot of there's a lot of private equity in Bangladesh cricket, where jobs are run by different owners. So, you know, that lead that hack up primarily where people earn the players on most of their, you know, they're living that's where the pitches haven't really changed much. It's still flat betting because it's a bit of turn, but yeah, I mean, first class cricket, they have tried to experiment with the jukeball, they've tried to bring in the cook up right in the S G of the sea. They're trying so yeah, the BCB are aware of what's happening around them and I think they are trying a little bit. That's actually great to hear, but before I ask a couple of questions that I have, what was that the skin celebration after it took the weight of cam green and why is it the only celebration we'll ever do next time we play. Yeah, obviously, I haven't spoken to him, but he does come up with these interesting sort of celebrations. He's like the cool kid slightly getting older now, but he does bring in a lot of these bot culture things I love to ask in the next time I see what was that all about. Yeah, I mean, it's it was something very different from what we usually see just to touch up on that just to add to that. I remember when Hassan Mahmoud was asked why he doesn't celebrate we said that because he thinks the batters are upset already. So why should I celebrate on my face when I had to relay this information to one of our colleagues in cricket field. I think someone just said, uh, Gen Z. I think it's it is, I mean, this is as Gen Z as it can get from one from Gen Z to probably the oldest generation that we can living generation that we can talk about. Okay, I wanted to hear from you about the joy of having karaoke, uh, doing commentary for this test series, we saw that video of him showing his preparatory notes. And it was fantastic because he was the only one who was able to take us through stories about the players all through the game. Yeah, remarkable. I mean, I noticed it on the first or second day that this guy karaoke, obviously we know it's his that laugh. That is very well known, but he's always come, come, come off as a very knowledgeable guy and other about Australian cricket, Australian domestic cricket, cricket, cricket, great cricket. When I started to hear about how he knows so much about shaman islam's batting and the sun's batting, you know, it shock me and I tweeted that, oh my god, he probably, you know, research is a lot or has a strong VPN connection. And then the next morning I saw about, I think 30,000 views on that on that post on Twitter. And then there's made that video that doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, these old school guys are amazing. You know, when you give them something to do and they're from a generation where note taking was obviously what coaches did or what scouts did. I have the privilege of knowing Ronald Cardwell, who is a very well known publisher in the Sydney Circle cricket book publisher. He used to share all these stories with me about, you know, all these former cricketers who would still do a bit of scoring when they go to the ground, who'd always keep track of what's happening in cricket, you know, he has published books of Duchi Venna, then it's really from back in the day. So he knows all these things. So I've been, I've been obsessed with Australian cricket all my life. So, I mean, I've picked up on these things, but, you know, this sort of research on Bangladesh team, this was remarkable. I mean, it's it's amazing to see and it's someone any commentator, I think, and look up to him. Look at how he drew me in, you know, someone who would mute commentary on when Bangladesh are playing elsewhere, I'm not gonna say where. So this, this just the ramps of the point that, you know, everything with a bit of knowledge information can always make it better. I'll just add that one of my, you know, someone I know in India, Manoj Zimri, he made a video today about how he, he described this video in one of his, like, he made a reaction video to that. And he said, just look at how much research he does and what happens in India, and I would like to add that in many matches in Bangladesh, we don't get to hear these sort of things about Bangladesh players and wealth. So yeah, it just took me a surprise and a pleasant surprise that, you know, you know, even though they are from Australia or a first world country or a big tree, but, you know, this guy really paid a lot of attention to Bangladesh players. I mean, I must share that PCC has probably biggest fans of Manoj Zimri before Manoj Zimri was famous and before he went on to start his entrepreneurial career twice, I must say. My second question, I think it leans on a little bit from karaoke itself, is the fact that when there were reviews to be taken, we've generally seen commentators call the, call the review by the way, by the behavior of the players on the ground. This was one of the first occasions where karaoke was sure of shanto's calmness on and off the field that he was calling it. Despite all the pressures that were there on shanto around with the players. So my question is essentially on shanto's captaincy, I mean, this is so calm, so composed tell us a little bit about him and his captaincy. And we his name is chanto, shanto means, damn, shant, right, shant, well done, yeah, so well, it was there for the taking and well done, you can say shanto and calm is like, why is saying the same thing? Yeah, but just to go back, just to talk about this captain of Bangladesh, obviously nine test wins now, the most you already crossed must be behind him seven in the Pakistan series. And surprise, many of us observers of Bangladesh figured how he has adapted to the captaincy and how he has, he has convinced everyone through his on field work that he is the guy. So the genesis of shanto's captaincy is not from one that I didn't get to domestic, but it is in Delhi. You know what happened in Delhi, Bangladesh were playing in Sri Lanka in the 2023 World Cup, one of the Sri Lankan batters as well, let's take a bit of time coming to the middle. Shanto went up to his captain and said, you know what, if he is laid by another so many seconds, we can actually go to the ampah and say that he's out. This captain being Shakibullah Sanos, oh good idea, let's go and try went up to the ampah and rest happened and that angelic batsman was given out and then many, many months later, Shanto said in a, like he had told a few of us in the background. But when he said it in an interview, he knew that and Shakib, I think later confirmed the story that was yeah, we meet Shanto, this vice captain who put his hand in Shakib's shoulder and said Shakib, I think we can go and go to the ampah and something's wrong here. Whatever your stance is on timed out and all these things, I think that was the moment we realized that this is the guy, Shanto is a guy who lives up to his name, he is very calculating in his decision making in the ground, he knows what he's about to do. He really understands the value of the experience around him, he likes to have the likes of moustache, momminol, these are X captains, you know, there's always some sort of complex, you know, relationship between X captains and current captain, he has managed that well. has managed relationships with the big guns in Bangladesh. We were like sapi, Tamil, pretty well. It's going well. It's one nine test matches. So I would say the most successful Bangladesh test captain, but I would say one of the first test captains for Bangladesh and Habib al-Basha was a very good captain given his resources. But Shanto has great resources, and he knows how to use it. Batting, bowling, and pretty much everywhere. He knows what he is capable of, and he knows what his team is capable of. I think Habib al-Basha is a good segue to ask you about Tanzig, and how Habib al-Basha played a key role in bringing Tanzig to this team while Tanzig was a white balls specialist. You wrote about it. Talk to us about having these brave selection calls also coming off for such a brilliant away series, let's say, away victory for Bangladesh. I'm hoping it's going to be too nil, and not just one nil. And we talk about both Darwin and Makai over a period of time. Yeah, this was a very good call from Habib al-Basha. But I think he didn't also predict that Tanzig was going to bat in this way. I think Tanzig completely tore up his own playbook and his own way of batting to fit into this way. I think they had-- I think the plan was surely we will leave more because the ball bounces over us and bounces over the stones because we have put down a shorter height team than Australia. If the ball bounces, we're going to leave as much as possible. I think that 54 all out also taught them that we need to leave more, not just go and fetch that ball outside our stump. If you have seen those highlights, I don't know whether you've seen that eight-trigger ball from Campbell, that fastballer. So I think that also taught them a short lesson. But the major plan was, I think Phil Simons having played in Australia for so many years also put that plan forward that we're going to leave more. And it was great to see Tanzig buying into that idea, as well that, OK, I'm going to leave more. This is a guy who made his name out of T20 cricket. 700 runs in 2025. The more six is there, Bangladesh in T20Is. He established himself as an ODI batter. He striped at 100 plus. It was also a rainy day for Bangladesh to have that batter come into a test match, open the innings, a batch of five hours and score. That's essentially that. I think surprise everyone. But I think the most is surprise of Habib al-Basha because he expected the role given to Tanzig. And he said it later that I was told to bat in like an ODI. He wouldn't bat like that in any ODI. So he molded himself, let's say just for Darwin, that, yeah, this is my role. I'm going to bat this way. I'm going to fit into the whole batting mantra. And let's see where it goes. It landed well. I think 100 in your first test in Australia is a big deal. I think the first one after Hanuk Muhammad in the 60s that Asian batter scored a 100 in his first test in Australia. So a really good batter, a really good opener. But again, a massive surprise for dishes. - I think you mentioned Phil Simman. So I wanted to ask you a little bit about him and his coaching style and how that's contributed because so I looked it into his background. He's a Trinidadian. He's coached a slightly more medium profile team. So he's coached him Barbe and Afghanistan and a couple of franchises. So what was, what went into bringing him on as a coach and what does he bring to this team? - Phil Simman's made his name as Ireland. The coach who took Ireland to the first World Cup, I think. - From what I tell you in 2007. - So he was an Ireland coach when they were playing ICC trophy, the qualifiers. Then he took them to the World Cup and then obviously West Indies. He was 2004, I think he was the head coach when the one that took 2012 World Cup. So he had a great profile in Afghanistan. He took them to a different level in the early days, around mid 2010s. It's a very interesting story. So Phil Simman's had interviewed for a job in Bangladesh in 2018, end of 2017 or no, I think, yeah. Sometimes in 2018 he came to Bangladesh for the interview, no one was impressed. Very late back, why is he here? That's what the cricket board people told me. But you know, he must be a really poor coach because he's tried, there is the level of self confidence the Bangladesh cricket board has on itself. But it's Phil Simman's has come down to us to give an interview, something must be wrong with this guy. It is something is going to be wrong. We're not going to take him. They're going to take him. Afghanistan got him, and Afghanistan did pretty well in that period. He was working in the franchise world, but I think Tommy and that the, I think Tommy had to say in that decision, although Tommy was not in the cricket board at that time, but definitely Phil was a favorite in Bangladesh by many, many different boards, officials at that time. So they really needed, I mean, the board president at that time, Farooq Ahmed. He had a really, really bad relationship and had Chandivath Rosimuth. Wanted to get rid of him, got rid of him. Phil Simman's was in a very calm character. He doesn't smile a lot, doesn't frown a lot, and I think one of his best, I think it's great advantage is that he doesn't just take unilateral decisions. He speaks to the, he got, he was convinced that Bangladesh needs a very good assistant coach and some really good coaches with him. So he does collaborate with local coaches, which is very refreshing to see and very new in Bangladesh. Local coaches are really not treated well here. So I think Phil does that very well. And again, you see Phil Simman at the end. He listens to what the players have to say. I mean, that may be a problem for the cricket board that there's a bit of player power going on. They may feel, but I think Phil allows the players to think for themselves, which I think Russell Domingo started, Steve Rhodes was very good at that. But then Phil Simman has now been successful even this far. So Bangladesh has had some good coaches. I think Phil Simman is in a very interesting timing that they have started to do really well. He didn't start well, took him a bit of time to convince everyone that this is his style and this is how he's going to go about it. But I think now everyone is now used to the way he wants to do it. OK. That's good to know. Another question is also about one of the other players, one of the stars of this game. Mehdi Hassan Miraz, he's so good. And yet he somehow feels underrated. What is-- I mean, do you get the same vibe? Is it just me who thinks this? No, no, no, no, look. I think when you have an all-rounder, like Shaki Balasan, having played for your country or your team, the record, the caliber, or the pedigree that he has shown or has given, you always feel a little underwhelmed. You're overwhelmed by his record, and you don't think that you're really good at it. In terms of match-reading performances, in terms of clutch moments, when he has pulled the team out, we try to the start. I think Sartar asked me about how Balasan has gone from Bangalore 2016 to Darwin in 2026. Mehdi is one of them. Mehdi is one of those catalysts who stepped up to a lot of difficult positions. Like, clearly, just on top of my head, 2018, Bangladesh needed an opener. Everyone was failing. Mehdi said, "Ashek of 2018 finals, I'll open." Never opened in his life, went up, and gave lit on the perfect partnership. Same thing happened in I think. One of the World Cups in T20, he worked hard at it. He became a better in the top order, transferred it into ODI. So this guy adopts very fast. And he is a very eager guy. Eager beaver, he wants to do it. You know, when Tansi scored that 100 and Chantos scored the 50 and everyone was getting runs, I was actually thinking he's not going to let it go so easily. He doesn't want to stay out of the-- it's not a line-like thing. He just thinks they're, OK, I should come to him for everyone else's ass. So those partnerships were typical regards. He wouldn't let it go. He wouldn't like to get out. What really, really made me happy was seeing him both so accurately, I think. I think he started out very well as a bowler. He was very good in his loop. And that kick he got out of the wicked was great. In the start of his career, for the first two, three years, they decided to get a little to do batting and then captaincy happened and this will happen. I think the way he bowled in Darwin was second innings. The amount of pressure he created on Alex Gary, we saw with Bo Webster getting out of that way. Everyone felt this way. I think he started with seeing Smith. Smith had absolutely nowhere to go. It was not as if Smith didn't know how to play an off-spinner. He didn't allow him to do anything, and that's what happened. Then came Alex Gary, who just kept playing a lot of dot balls. And I think Adam Gilles was saying on commentary that if you get to bowl to one batter in particular for so long, you get a hang of it. The batter doesn't get a hang of that. He's defending you. The bowler gets a hang of it, and then you have the chance of getting him out. I think two or three balls later, Gary got out. That accuracy is back in maybe. And if he can just hold on to it for a little while, he's going to make wonders. Because if he has accuracy to go with his loop and it's the end. away going delivery is going to be deadly. He's going to be even better in more health conditions. On the matchup with Kari, I would just like to add here that Kari has this very, you know, from the opposition point of view, annoying habit of taking the advantage away. He's a very jittery bachelor, I see, or the way I see him, he is restless. So he's always hitting the strokes that conventional batters would try would not hit with that angle of the back. And he's always trying to score. So when he came to the crease and Mary was able to completely tie him down. So I remember watching like 20, 25 dot balls, you know, to carry and that was assigned that, okay, today they have their plans perfectly in place and they're executing it and to tie him down at that stage, actually, you know, basically minimized all the chances of Australia in any way or form trying to wrestle the momentum back because he was the last hope the way I saw it because he's done it so many times against so many teams. The top order removed and then he comes in and those 50s completely give the advantage. So that was was, yeah, that was very nice to watch how he completely Yeah, sort of, I couldn't hear the last bit of that. No, that was just a comment on how he was completely able to tie, carry down a backpack who is known for, you know, trying to do these so managing to wrestle the advantage back. Yeah, I think I think they had the plans set for each better. Very specific ways, they bowed to certain batter, I think they also tied down Cameron Green despite scoring the 100. I think he was not smooth in his certain shots or he was not flowing, you know, I mean, they had barnnesses number from Dhaka. They knew that he was in trouble, they knew where the problem was. I think that was taken care of. I think the way they bowed to Jake, whether or not, I thought Chad has said the way he got out those two innings and no way he put his bail back on. I still can't figure out that one out. I figured out almost everything from this test much, except for that one. I think you guys know, please let me know. But yeah, I mean, the way they had bowed to each batter was very impressive. And again, as I said, that accuracy has really really impressed me. About Travis said, like a very famous philosopher Ian Higgins recently said, that Travis had thought he was having a center wicked. So when he got out, he thought it's best to put the bail back and get another role. But now we love it because he's obviously joking. Is I'm why I also wanted to ask about, like we spoke about Tanzi, then Tanzi was part of a team that did something pretty historic in Bangladesh, which is when the under 19 bulk up in 2020. And I, and I'm sure all of us are believers in doors being opened. And these moments kind of opening doors when a big team kind of wins something, it just tells them that this is possible. And an example I often quote and I don't know if it's too dramatic or whatever. But for example, Tanzi noggin, Edmund Hillary, when they went to Everest, they did not just do it for themselves, they did it for humanity, that to say that this could be done. So how much has impact has the under 19 bulk up in 2020, the New Zealand test win in 22, the Pakistan series wins in 24. And now, and a test win like this, do you see a mindset being changed in Bangladesh cricket, where you see that not just that we won't just win these vocational test matches here and there, we should be competing in every single test match. Look at the under 19 bulk up win in 2020. Just look at the players in this one of this team. They have, I think, 11 of those 16 players in the inner round of the team. You have obviously Tawiz Redoy. You know, just recently when he says everybody's already played a lot of ODIs and T20s, you have part as even the T20 opener, you have Tanzi Tassan, obviously we spoke about him, joy, shower, Shami, Hassan Murad, you have Tanzim Sakeib. You also have a guy called Mithu Judge, who's a left-hand quick bowler. The two guys have missed out and I think there is a travelcy that he, Akbar Ali, the captain hasn't played for one of this yet, damn good player, damn good good keeper. And also Abhishek Das is a very good fast bowler, but he got a serious injury few years ago. So he's now coming back. So coming back to your point, I think references are very important. I think when you have won the United Kingdom World Cup, beating a team like India, and that Indian team was something else. That Indian team had the youth duel as one of the players they had, Jaiswal Pishnoi and all these guys still at Varna. When you have defeated India in a World Cup final, that particular player, his mindset starts here. So that has carried over to the Bangladesh team, I think. Very good of one of these players, especially those who are not in that team, to welcome that feeling into the team, to welcome that rise of standard. Because one thing that is very common in Bangladesh cricket and all the elite creatures is that Hangar, they really want to do that. They don't know, they don't know what just want to be famous. They want to be famous doing something big in cricket. So I think that under 19th setup, now that they have so much so intimately with the senior setup that has really made a big difference. So, I mean, Bangladesh have been there before, I mean, notably on that heading item cardiff, and I mean, all of us remember it, and of course it was special for you too. Again, it was one of those things that Bangladesh were not supposed to do this, and it happened again today. Ashraf ul was there on that day, leading the charge, and he was there pitside today. How does this compare to that evening? I mean, if you have memories of that evening, I would love to hear that as well. If somebody before you start, I'm so sorry. Can I just give in one more piece of information? I will not name the anchor or the PV channel. A very famous media personality from India gave his entire editorial stuff a day off the next day, because back then, Australia just did not lose. So for Bangladesh to do this in England, it just became a whole thing of all of you guys get a holiday. This is cost for celebration, and he came to office the next day, wearing a olive green jersey. That's what you say. Yeah, of course, I remember that game. I think sports semester in my university or fifth semester. What's the whole game? Bangladesh were in a very difficult tour of England. They had lost both test matches, and nothing was looking promising. Australia, we're obviously the Beatles, the Iron Maiden, the YouTube and Coldplay of cricket at that time. No one could touch them. They had just conquered everything. That day was, I felt that was, I mean, if I had to rate a miracle in cricket field, I would definitely say that that was the closest thing I've ever seen to a miracle. Obviously, there have been upsets in cricket, but this was two teams at two different spectrums of their confidence. I think later, we had a Zimbabwe team being Australia in the 2007 World Cup in South Africa, but I think this one was just something else. Ashrafull, we all knew was so hot and cold, very inconsistent, gathered his wits and scored that century. Mushapy was all very well. And I think my favorite moment was going to be that six that Aftar Amadhypt towards the end. And there was, I think, Bumble Lloyd and Diane Leven were on Capcom and Chief, and they invited, they pulled Aftar Ali Khan and just gave him the mic and said, just say something. And Aftar Ali put, Diane Leven, take that. It was very, very cool of him. And obviously, that win, it didn't change anything about the risk here at the time. It was just a win. I mean, it was a medical, no one could comprehend what had happened. I think I interviewed Ashrafull many, many years later about that game. I mean, he said it was like, he couldn't believe what was happening basically. So I think that that was the whole point of that game was that it was just a one-off medical. Obviously, Bumble has dominated most of that game as well. I think in those days, 250 was not a bad score in Australia. It's written in Cardin, but I remember there was a great chase. I think Ashrafull had a massive 100. I mean, that was Ashrafull for you. Wait one day, and then this ordinary for the next 10 days. I remember that match. I think there was a very famous quote from David Lloyd, after the willing one was scored on the Richter scale of the scale. It was a bit like that. On the Richter scale of the scale, you couldn't count how big this was. or you know so yeah I mean yeah that that was there and then obviously Australia lost to Bangladesh in the Dhaka test I was at a ground at that on the test match with some hilarious legend from that game I remember one that I heard I think Matthew Wade had come to bat Bangladesh had sledge the hell out of all those trillion thatters they were not talking to I think Tommy wasn't talking to Wade and then Wade asked him why aren't you saying he said I don't talk to people who have a little place in 25 with the bat so yeah that was a and that is the series when Usman was a lost issues in the mosque when he went to play so many things happened yeah some other yeah it was like nine years ago so yeah there was the last time that was before down with yeah I think I think that's actually a good way to end the podcast thank you so much for joining us on the day that Bangladesh has probably had their biggest day in desk cricket and in my opinion I think this is the greatest upset in desk cricket when Tim Wiggmore writes an addendum to desk cricket a history I think there will be a very nice chapter of this test I like I'll make sure to write a team about it at least at the very least from mine yeah thank you so much for joining in oh thank you so much for inviting me I really love talking to you guys I think I've done one with you guys shardan and let me write so yeah I mean I really enjoyed enjoyed that one and obviously always a pleasure to do this is your podcast thank you so much thank you okay take care guys good night take care have a good night the side get some second hundred to do success in the front and the next style the whole of Bengal are on their feet yeah go not that is full to these golden eggs bowl but dream and big finish for Carlos Bradwy the bullseys here at the bulldoin.