Balancing Hormones Naturally with Two Moons Health

Welcome to Caudible, a female entrepreneur podcast. The show buy-in-four female entrepreneurs who are building and running thriving successful businesses while living life to the fullest. I'm your host, Alessandra Polina, owner of Caudible Media, Cala PR and Media Company. After more than 10 years building a PR agency have learned a lot about business and entrepreneurship, but the most valuable things have always come through conversation with other women who've been in it too. And I want to share all of them with you because we're stronger together. So fill your coffee cup up, sit back and listen in. I am so excited to be here today with the co-founders and CEO of Two Moon's Health Terry Chang and Uli Councilor. I am so excited to get to share them with you all today. I got to meet them actually really recently and we were like we've got it. We've got to talk more. We've got to have you on the show. So thank you both so much for being here today. First of all, thank you for having us. Thank you so much for having us. I want to start by first of all, I feel like when there's two people on it once it can be a little like I want to make sure people are able to put a face to a name. So when we are not a face to a name of voice to a name, so when we first start talking I want to make that a little clear so people can like have a sense of who they're hearing from, but I love that you're both on here today. I love a good co-founder story. I just think it's, it just seems so nice to like build a business with someone, build a company with someone else and something I can't really imagine doing, but I always love to hear about other people doing it and get to hear what your experience is. So I want people to get to hear what Two Moon's Health is first of all and I just always want to start by hearing a little bit about your background and like how you decided to start the business and then we can go into a little bit more about like how it all, how it all came to be. But Terry, did you want to start with some of that background of like what exactly Two Moon's Health is and where it came from? Sure. Two Moon's Health is a women's health company and we've developed a plant-based supplement in two parts that addresses IPMS, PMDD and Pairment-A-Post. It incorporates the idea of seed cycling, which Dr. Calves-Ner will go into later. But she and I, I can start with our backstory. She and I have been friends for 17 years and our friendship began at this evening division master class at the Juilliard School in New York. We were both young professionals then. She was working in research. She's a medical doctor and I was a young corporate attorney and we were both very stressed out from work. So music was something that we had both done since we were four years old and we both signed up audition for this class with the professor at Juilliard which we took every week and over the course of five years. And so you really get to know people well when you're in a master class format with them. But then fast-forward 15 years after that we had developed a group of close female friends and in New York City and we had this ritual that we've done for almost up to decade where we get together and have a clothing swap where we trade clothes in our closet that are unworn or underworn and it's just a way of refreshing our work throughout every season. And so in one of these gatherings which I hosted in my apartment we got to talking about hormonal health and you know I opened up with the fact that I have very difficult cycles and you know I have PMDD which is the most severe form of PMS about 3 to 8 percent of women have PMDD and about 90 percent of women up to 90 percent of women have PMS and I said to my group of friends in you know in close covenants you know I tried everything that the Western doctors have prescribed hormonal birth control antidepressants but he's all come with side effects you know they're meant to help alleviate the symptoms of a very severe PMS and so I asked Oolie because she was a doctor and also her father before her was an OBGYN I said surely there must be something outside of these standard prescribed remedies what do you recommend and she explained the concept of seed cycling which will go over in detail and I said that sounds wonderful but I don't really have the time or the ability to mix four different seeds in my kitchen and remember which day of the month to take which one seems that part seems impractical I love the fact that it's plant based I love the fact that it's organic and I love the fact that you she herself had been seed cycling for years and found it to be a great help and so I said why don't we make it easier for women let's create a snack bar our initial idea was to create a snack bar but then we did some initial market research and found that women preferred capsules or you know gummies capsules I think it was over 60% of women preferred capsules where only around 30 something percent of women were interested in cycling with raw seeds or even fewer with granola with seed cycling granola so we vowed that day to create a new format and we came out with a with a capsule basically by April we had filed for a provisional patent on the capsule and by August we had a product in hand so that's we became accidental founders we weren't trying to become founders we were trying to solve a very personal a personal health problem and so that's like amazing I love that story because I mean I always love a story of like it's like you started out of necessity like as you said it wasn't even like you were like okay let's start a business or like I want to own a company it was like here's something I need and if I need it probably other people need it too and like no one else has made this and it's something we like someone needs to do it and you're just like okay let's do it let's be the ones to figure this out and I I'm really interested in this because like I don't know anything about seed cycling so I'm curious I'll be curious to hear if listeners have been familiar with this before if this is their first time hearing about it and I mean I love the idea of capsules because it does feel so easy and I know there's probably people out there listening being like oh my gosh I've been doing this on my own for all these years and it's been such a hassle but it makes you feel so like it's necessary I'm sure like once you like as you said if you're having those symptoms and nothing's helping and this will help like you're gonna do it right but yeah I want to hear more about like when you were like okay let's do this like what how did you actually know how to do it like what what what they're I imagine it wasn't that easy it sounds like you went pretty quick like from like idea to like let's make this happen because you're both obviously very like smart ambitious high-powered women but like what did that look like to be like okay actually let's start this company in here and create a product I'll let me jump in on this maybe first a little background on the seed cycling so seed cycling is the use of two different seeds during each half of the cycle which is actually flex seeds and pumpkin seeds during the first 14 days the first half day half half part of the cycle and then sesame seeds and sunflower seeds during the second half of the month or the cycle and the idea behind this behind it is actually that it contains different electrolytes and different components that are beneficial for the respective needs of the body such as magnesium which can help with sleep or headaches and cramps or manganese or zinc which can be anti-inflammatory or selenium and interestingly these seeds also have different oils like Omega 3 they also have ligaments which can function as a phytogenic properties so for example flexi can have a little bit of a yeah function on certain estrogen receptor it's a very interesting concept how it works with and in competition with estrogen actually and it can be a little bit of a phytogenic meaning it can support the estrogen in the first half and support the protester and the second half plus all these electrolytes can help with all the symptoms that can be associated with PMS or the symptoms that women can have throughout their cycle starting with headaches and migraines or brain fog or of course cramps or breast pain or bloating and so we had this survey and discussion actually was truly something nice because we started making bars in teres kitchen and tried like different recipes and what would like taste nice would be nice but then we got the results for the capsules and yeah there was a lot of reading looking at studies actually there's there's not much about seed cycling in study yet there's a study on PCOS in seed cycling and actually there is one from a yeah looking at seed cycling itself that shows that 70 to 80 percent can show improvement of different PMS related symptoms And so we looked at different studies and publications that are socially synced and magnesium, etc. what that does. And then looking at the dosages and then we calculated it measured it on like a little kitchen scales but also talked to a lot of laboratories. And essentially came up with a certain amount that's added up to taking two capsules during the first half and two capsules taking during the second half. And then we added something called Chessberry or V-Tex, which is a really old herb known since Greek antiques times to be helping for with PMS and for all the PMS symptoms during the second half of the cycle in a little bit of a sillium which can help with digestion. So this is what we added during the second half and then we came up with one formula that yeah, a pure to make sense. We asked different producers, factories, etc. and settled with one that actually is organic and is nicely certified with FDA and as F and then we decided to work with them and they produced our capsules and this is where we had the product. That's amazing. Yeah, it was important to us that the capsules be manufactured in the US that they had these certifications that's GMP compliant and SF regulated, FDA registered facility and that they were able to produce the given capsules because capsules are not always plant-based and we also needed we wanted a facility that was able to bottle everything in glass bottles because this is gainability components really important to us and it's also healthier not to eat things out of plastic bottles. Yeah, that makes sense and I love that. Well, I love what you touched on which maybe is obvious to people but I also feel like I like all of these like vitamins and whatnot are in these seeds. Like it's not like people will take you know I already forget what you said so I don't want to misspeak but like magnesium or whatever like pills but if you can already get those inside of a seed that's it's not like it's not like you're not taking these other vitamins and obviously you can take other things too but like it's not like you're just like oh I'm gonna eat pumpkin seed it like what's the point of that it's like the things that are inside of the seeds that will help your body and help make you feel good like they're just they're just already packaged up in these seeds in a really natural way and it's not that it's like pumpkin seeds are gonna be the thing that makes you feel good but it's it's all of the things that are already naturally found inside of a pumpkin seed that are things that your body needs and wants at these times right so it's not like it's like you are yeah getting all of those vitamins and nutrients and that's the point that it's it can be done in a really natural way and it's not just like taking a totally synthetic pill for these different yeah vitamins and nutrients that like I feel like we're so used to doing already this feels so much more natural than that like let's find actual foods that are containing the things that are gonna make us feel better you know absolutely and in our capsules we basically ground the seeds into a very very fine powder and because it's airtight it has no longer shelf life than say if you were to um just by our seeds at the supermarket so yeah that makes sense too and I feel like one other thing that you guys mentioned when when we had talked before recording this that I thought was really interesting because again I was like I've never heard of seeds cycling and like it's kind of something that's maybe you know about to get a Tade in the US but it's something that people have been using all in other parts of the world like it's not new it's not like uncommon right in a lot of parts of the world it's just maybe in America we haven't really heard about it that much and a lot of us might not have ever tried it yet yeah it's it's so true I think plant-based ingredients or herbs are actually powerful tools and we always think of of it as some yeah not as effective as chemical ingredients in other medications or tablets which is very funny because many of our very strong medications actually derive from plant ingredients like cardiac medications or even chemotherapy's and it is very well known that herbs and this integrative measures are actually working quite nicely I mean let's say 900 years ago a thousand years ago actually medicine for women was done by women and it was a very clear field that was traded from woman to woman and kind of everybody knew about remedies for all kinds female woman childbirth related and these were of course mostly herbs and it's so true for example the chase bear it's something that is very commonly used by obituary and so my father has very often given it and said oh it's a nice thing it's an herb take that and he was never a big fan of the birth control pill of course he prescribed this it has its own great advantages absolutely but maybe not for certain pains or maybe not for certain other things where maybe other remedies could help and so it was always nice to have these conversations and it's so true to maybe open that idea to others or have a little bit of a paradigm shift and awareness about like huh actually herbs or natural medicine can actually also have quite powerful effects is I think was an interesting thing that we see and learn along this journey yeah and I feel like we just like in this day and age in america especially we just like assume we have to take some harsh medication for anything or like that we have to go to the pharmacy and get like some kind of totally you know packaged up pill for everything even though like that's honestly that's so new right like that is a new thing and we just don't really we like forget that I feel like but I I also like I think it's worth mentioning you guys are like even though we're saying seed cycling's been a thing in other parts of the world and here like people do do it but as we mentioned like you need to have all these seeds on hand and have a way to eat them and it can be less than convenient it can be annoying to deal with and so you guys are what's super unique about this is that you guys are the first ones to have brought this into capsule form and just made it like a really easy convenient way for busy women especially but like I mean for anybody but to to actually do this to actually try it and you're pairing this with that innovation with a deep commitment to education and community and being able to like bring up these conversations and get people thinking and talking about these things so I feel like that's just I mean obviously worth mentioning that you're the first ones doing this in this way and I want to hear a little bit about why why it's important to you to not just be like here's a product you can take it if you want but also you're challenging the silence and stigma around this menstrual and hormonal health and like having these conversations around this is a thing a lot of us struggle with we shouldn't be ashamed to talk about it and there might be things that help once you're able to have these conversations and we talk about it more so why is all of that so important to you guys? I often say to Uli it's not just a capsule it's a conversation I also say that when we've been talking to students at these campus pilots we've been doing at top US business schools like Columbia and my U-Warton and most recently we did when at MIT's on we've been partnering with the Student Health and Wellness Clubs and the Women's Association at these various schools and you know we really challenge the the systemic basis for why it is that women's health has been so neglected so you know in business school they often go through this exercise called the five wise to get to the root cause analysis of things and so you know I ask them well why is that that women first along have you know struggle to work for equal pay despite maybe working twice as hard and and I said could it be just as a thought experience this experiment could it be that we're struggling with underlying hormonal conditions which are no there are no adequate remedies that are you know and why is it that there are no adequate remedies could it be that these conditions are underfunded and then I say well why is it that they're underfunded could it be that these topics are stigmatized so people don't talk about they don't actually describe their pain to others whether they might be hiding it from friends, family, their communities, their employers and so boiling it down to the fact that maybe these sort of social taboos are are preventing research from being performed adequately so that there can be remedies so that there can be you know ultimately gender equality is all tied in to these systemic root causes and so I um yeah we bring this up we talked to the business schools and we think that it's an opportunity to when we're gathering these students to empower the future leaders of tomorrow. So we see them as captains of industry and they're in school for 18 months and they graduate out and are in a position to impact their workplaces dramatically, but the way that they think about their own bodies, cycle health, and the way they communicate about it to their peers, to others in their workplace. So we were really thinking about the potential societal influence that a product such as ours, and we're not the only product that is working towards these sort of aims. We feel very privileged to be part of a women's movement. We really feel so lucky that we've founded a company at this exact moment in time. People always said entrepreneurship would be so lonely, but I've not found that to be the case, because I found so many other women founders who are excited to collaborate and cross promote with us. We were invited to the Cycle Sinking Educational Workshop that Ula, the maternal healthcare startup, was hosting and they had us. They had a Cycle Sinked Meal company there. They had a Cycle Sinked Tea company there. It was just so exciting for different women founders to be meeting each other and connecting and realizing that we're all kind of in the same fight. We all have the same sense of purpose and mission driving our work. Yeah, I love that. It's like, it is the time. It's the time to be doing this. I love that there are other companies like this, and it's not like, "Oh, we're the only ones talking about this stuff." It is all stronger together, and I love that collaboration. Everybody helping lift each other up and come together to get in front of people in that way that it's like, "We're all here to help." You're all working towards that same mission in different ways. That's something that you probably wouldn't have seen even a couple of years ago, a generation ago, at least. Yeah, I love that. I think just when it comes to hormones, I feel like so many of us have just no idea what's going on. We don't know much about them at all, and the part of that is the stigma and just not talking about it that much, not knowing what to talk about, not knowing what to even think about, or think to ask. I'm curious if there's one thing you wish that everybody knew about hormonal health, or one thing you would say when it comes to talking to someone who's like, "I don't even pay any attention to my hormones. I just don't know." You're bringing up a very good point, actually. I don't even know what I don't know. That is probably something that we all could be. I don't want to say shit, but could be aware just to ease our lives and make it like flowing easier every day or every week with the abs and flows of our hormones. And I'm not so sure if so many people actually know about what the basic hormones, estrogen and progesterone, and do not want to call them basic hormones, do when they increase during which half of the cycle, when actually the fertile window is. It's actually the egg itself is fertile for like 12 to 24 hours. And how long one has to be careful, for example, before hand. And I mean, this is just so much power and knowledge about things, to know to be avoided, to be helpful, or then to know exactly when the hormones decrease before the period comes, and to be aware of more sensitivities and the body needs a little bit more rest. And I think this is just a simple awareness that we all should have. And it can give us a lot of knowledge and power actually, because then we understand ourselves better and know how to interact with our environment. And it is, I don't think something that a lot of people know about, and also women know about, we have this like crude idea of what these two hormones do. And during which half they increase. So I think just really knowing that there are these two halves. First one is more estrogen, second one is more progesterone driven. Then there's this little ovulation window, fertility window of actually the actual combination can be only 12 to 24 hours, but fertility window is just like 3 to 5 days prior. So it's actually a very narrow window and then the period itself. And I think everybody could use this and maybe people don't need to be on harsh medication. So not everybody needs a birth control if they actually know what the days are. And the other important thing that I always harp on in Terry has heard this many times is that these hormones actually come from an interesting building block from cholesterol. So we actually all do need good fats because all our hormones and women also have testosterone. So also accounts for men it comes from this cholesterol ring. And interestingly the cholesterol ring also goes into cortisol. So if you actually really stress more cortisol is built. So in a lot more kind of goes into the use of this cortisol and not so much into a balance production of the other two hormones to women hormones, the classic ones, the progesterone and estrogen. And I think that's just very interesting to know like, okay, if I'm stressed all the time, how can the others be balanced because the entire body focuses all the time on building the stress hormone? I think that's important. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's just the more we can talk about these things and be aware of them as women or as menstruators, the better. And I feel like, yeah, we've definitely seen more and more of that now. But there's still so much more to come. I feel like I'm personally someone who's like pretty aware. But also like, yeah, there's just so much more to learn. Like there's so much that I feel like I'm just not paying attention. I think about like cycle thinking for certain stuff and like which days I'm going to have more energy, which days I'm going to have less. I think about that a little bit like when it comes to running a business and stuff like that. But then also like months will go by where I'm like, oh, I got really busy and just like didn't think to think about. And didn't even pay attention. And then I ended up maybe with a big meeting on a day that I knew I was going to be feeling kind of awful. And it's just like even, yeah, even for someone who I feel like I'm pretty aware, it's just like so easy to just not pay attention sometimes. Which also might be easy for me to say as someone who hasn't really struggled with like too much, you know, I know some people are like, how can you not? Because sometimes you feel like you're like, you have to pay attention to that stuff. It's not a choice, but yeah, there's so much to it. And I'm just, I'm just so glad we're actually talking about it and having these conversations. And so glad there's companies like you guys creating the things that we all need to make life a little bit easier. And I'm just so curious. I mean, I mentioned this little at the beginning. I just always think the life of like a company being founded by two people who were like friends too for so long before even started the company. I'm just always curious to hear. And you guys as like an attorney and a doctor obviously very successful people before starting this. But I imagine neither of you went to like business school. Like were you ever expecting to start a company and like what has that been a little bit like behind the scenes for the two of you to be running this together? Anything that's been particularly challenging or particularly joyful. However, you want to take it. You know, it's interesting. I didn't do an MBA in the traditional way, but I did end up in this executive education program at Harvard Business School, which was a seven month program that was an accelerated. Kind of equivalent to any MBA, which, you know, some of it was on campus, some of it was remote. And I do think that going there sort of late in my career, like I've already been practicing law for 18 years. So when I went there, that was maybe three years ago. So 15 years into my career, it actually kind of lit a little bit of a spark in me. I didn't know that I wanted to be a founder, but it helped me to start to see the world in a slightly different way with more openness to the idea of. To look at things with business eyes instead of legalize, which are, which are very different set of eyes. In terms of friendship. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a way to really get to know a close friend extremely deeply, but also understand more like what their strengths are, because oftentimes in their professional strengths. And because oftentimes in friendship, you may have very different professions and you never see them within the context of what they, what they do best in the workplace. And so we've now gotten to see each other make a lot of speeches, you know, design and business strategies. I've been able to hear, at least, speak about science. And so when you're, when you're just friends connected through music, maybe you will lose to your, your day to day work a little bit, but you don't get to see somebody in action. And so this has been kind of an incredible, incredible thing. Then in terms of medicine, it's actually. honey to think about that because I think it can go into both directions. It is a very old-fashioned profession because we probably do things that we have done for a long time the same way, maybe sometimes for hundreds of years the same way. And on the other hand, it is actually a field that is evolving because we are only as good as we as our knowledge currently is and there are still many new things that we learn. And especially science and research and development in medicine actually is a really exciting and fast-moving field. So it is very funny in medicine we don't have like a business education background at all that we get traditionally throughout our medical school. And I think it would be actually very helpful because many go out and actually fund their own practice or yeah, or some scientists actually go out with a patent and a product. And it's really great to and so nice what you said to her but it's so great to actually work with a friend who is a absolute fantastic lawyer but who also has like a really savvy business background and it's really great to see all this. It actually learned a lot from Terry and throughout this entire endeavor together. The Ausseted and Evening Accelerated together last year for a couple months. It was also very exciting to share things there and learn a lot there. And yeah, so it's a humbling experience to me because medicine again. I also tried to look at things sometimes in a different way. It's very humbling to look at my patients and think like oh how much can I more move into integrated for natural measures and discuss maybe more sleep or more gut health with them. So it comes on really different levels but the in terms of personal growth really learning a lot from Terry and through Terry through her really fantastic legal and especially business background is really great. I love that. I just love your dynamic and how you guys have come together to create this. So that's really cool to hear you say. And I'm going to hear I know I know also we talked about how you guys are doing some studies like having some official third-party studies done on the capsules themselves just like even though you're like we know it works we've seen it work there's all these you know examples of it working so well but just to have like some official kind of studies done from someone else saying like yeah and here's how it works kind of thing. But what are some of the things like if someone's listening to this and they're like okay what is this really going to like feel like for me if I try this product to have like an example of some of the most meaningful transformations you've heard people talk about or your own experiences that you've seen since you've since you actually had this product out there. I can quickly mention we have some reviews from customers and instead that is actually really beautiful and very humbling to see the first people tell us like oh it really does something it really helps I feel so much better and it's an entire array of improvements that they feel some say oh my period just goes really regulated I had this really long 60 70 day periods now it comes on a really more regular and monthly not every period needs to be 28 days but around this spectrum it comes on a regular base or other say oh my mood is so much better and I feel so much more balanced and also really great and interesting is that people feel their skin having major benefits from that and for example homo-al-aakne being cleared out and this is what we also start hearing more and more and personally I think the use of these natural approaches is really good I personally as you said it's I'm very thankful for my balance and I enjoy my seat cycling and I do it and so this is also my personal word and from my perspective I you know I have PMDD and so usually I'm in the mood you'll face a nice cycle right now so usually I'd be you know under a blanket or you know I used to call myself the the dragon volcano I be erupting but instead I'm having a nice time on this podcast starting to you and so I'd say for me the mood differences are enormous we also because we include Cillium it really reduces the bloating and you know thinking about how it's affecting some of our customers with their hormonal acne like literally clearing up people with chronic hormonal acne who may have had it for a decade and they're reporting that after taking our product for a month that it's gone and that's to to provide that kind of level of confidence for people that's such a beautiful thing to me but also the beauty application of this product is also very interesting because I see that the beauty industry in the wellness industry are converging they're more and more products they're addressing how to make women truly beautiful from the inside out both in terms of how they feel about themselves and also how what they consume is going to affect their skin and their hair and and so it's it's really interesting being part of that movement as well so I'd say like we're part of three different movements we're part of the women's health movement we're part of this beauty and wellness converging together movement and we're part of this movement towards an openness towards more more holistic health methods that are gentler than the traditional western pharmaceutical methods and so I see this wonderful kind of amalgamation of energy as we're joining these these movements I tell Uli that we're accidentally on trend a lot of gen Z years are posting about seed cycling now on TikTok and we don't even use TikTok so the fact that we created a capsule to make it simpler like we are so we are quite accidentally on trend yeah I love that it's like you get to be part of all of these conversations now and yeah I could think you should get on TikTok you should probably start bringing in your cap so over there next quarter next quarter oh my gosh I think yeah it could not be coming at a better time and I'm just so impressed with everything you guys have have created here in or doing and I'm gonna obviously give you a chance to share like how people can find the products and connect with you guys more after this but I want to leave with if if there's just one last thing whether it's related to you know the product or hormonal health or if it's just like one last like word of advice for other women go you know our listeners are other female entrepreneurs so just anything related to like a piece of advice that you guys have learned or found helpful or impactful along your journey that you'd want to share with other people today would you like to put it first I can go I would just say higher for passion and alignment with your mission because skills can be taught but passion is what drives creativity and hard work and also creating a cohesive culture within the company and so we've we've we have a very lean team we're we're still very small but we've hired some really mission driven aligned individuals and it really it shows so that's that's my or still early in our journey but that's what I've observed so far maybe people didn't don't be afraid of trying something and of course what I think is very important is to the research to the research on the product that you wanted to learn everything about it but also to the research on the people who might benefit from it and ask them and learn from them what really is needed what they want and then they can be translated to the product yeah that's great thank you and tell people how they can find the company how they can follow along how they can purchase and then if you're comfortable like if there's a place that you guys connect with other female entrepreneurs like whether that's linked in or a social media platform or anywhere like that that people can connect more with you if they want to just become a part of your community Terry do you want to tell us where to find sure our website where you can also purchase for product but also read articles on our blog it's www.tumoonshealth.co www.tumoonshealth.co and we have an Instagram account as well no tech talk yet but we do have an Instagram it's at Tumoons Health and you can DM us there with any any questions amazing and we will put links to all of these things in the show notes too so people can go check it all out and can purchase with a special link and everything anything else that you wanted to add we'd love to give a discount to your listeners so a quoteable 50 and it'll last for the amount of time that it lists in the show notes amazing thank you so much oh my gosh so good to have you on today thank you both so much for being here and for talking about this with me I'm so happy we've connected thank you really great meeting you thank you for what you're doing because you're spreading the word thank you thanks so much for listening for more information check out the show or find us on Instagram @quadbomeDIAco and @quadalolmagazine. 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