Babalon & the Will to Numinosity

Hello, this is the sleepover podcast. I am Carolyn Lovewell, and I am Layla Matthews. And we are live at Layla's kitchen table. And we wanted to talk to you today. What stuff has been happening in the world? As per usual, things are pretty crazy. Humans are killing other humans on mass. Humans are persisting and believing that other humans are evil and have to be eliminated. Climate change is going pretty strong. Like here in Pittsburgh, it's chilly today. But we've also had a full-on balmy springtime in the middle of February, which isn't normal, yes, historically. And, you know, anyways, the apocalypse is going along nicely. So we wanted to keep talking about that, our favorite subject. And Layla was saying that she had been enjoying some thoughts about the email that I wrote today that I sent out about Babylon in the book of revelations. And how, you know, like she, to my mind, like the symbol of this great harlot riding a seven-headed beast, who's like, whose pan is like, pan the beast of the all. The seven spheres, the seven archons, the seven, you know, prismatic flavors of existence. It's just the monstrousness of reality. The heaving, fucking, terrible, devouring truth of material reality. She's riding it. She's in union with it. She's so happy about it. She's intoxicated. She's like orgasmic. She has this giant, holy grail filled with the wine of her fornications and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus and the blood of Jesus. It's honestly the most inspiring, religious icon image. I don't know what the right word is. It truly inspires me. Like when I really, like, behold it in my mind, I'm like, yes, that's correct. And even John of Patmos, who was like, this is horrible, that's like, who saw Babylon as this like scary representative of Babylon, which had enslaved the Jews and John of Patmos himself was a Jewish Christian. And his so he saw, you know, he the metaphor of the Jews enslaved in Babylon was for him parallel to the Christians being oppressed by the Roman Empire. And so Babylon represented basically all of the values of empire that to this day everybody is lamenting quite a lot, the horrible, awful horrors of imperialism. So John Patmos, John Patmos saw Babylon as that. And I mean, Babylon was sort of like his figurative name, right, for the lady looked like Ishtar, right? Like Ishtar, the goddess of love and war. And anyway, so there she is, she's riding the great beast. And even he, who was like, this is, she's a bad guy, right? And I wondered with a great admiration. Wow, give you nods, like, whoa, something, something's being transmitted to me. And I was, yeah, I was just really taken by, you know, the line in your email, where you were like, and from the point of view of, you know, John the acetic, this like sexy babe, it looks like bad news. And I was just really appreciating how, I just don't take, I just can't agree with him. I can't see it that way. I can't see it that way. I really can't. I am very turned on by the idea of like lovingly apprehending the all, including its yuckiness. Well, I feel like even in the text though, I mean, I feel like there's textual clues that she is identical with the Virgin Mary in the sense of like there's another woman who appears in the book of Revelation. She's a few chapters before Babylon. And it's this woman who's pregnant. And she knows she's crowned with the sun and stars and girt with the zodiac. She's obviously like the mother of all the mother of heavens. And she's pregnant and she's being persecuted by a great beast who's chasing her and she's having to hide. So there's that, that pregnant great goddess lady. And then there's Babylon. And Babylon is holding a grail filled with the blood of Jesus. What could a grail filled with the blood of Jesus and the martyrs of Jesus be but the womb of the Virgin who gives birth to the Savior? So how, like, and what? So it's like she, she clearly is that womb. Like she clearly, to me, like she is the matrix of Christ consciousness embodied in living matter and form. And, you know, she is the precondition of manifestations like Jesus of Nazareth. Her just incredibly slutty compassion. And let's just think of this. Incredibly slutty compassion. And she is understanding, right? Like in the vision and the voice Crowley sees her and he's like, she's understanding which is Bina on the tree of life. And what else is there? There's that she, the Virgin Mary, the Virgin Mary was like, she was like 13 or something and she was betrothed to Joseph and an angel came and was like, look, you're going to get knocked up by the Holy Spirit. It's all cool. Just roll with it. Your husband to be is going to know that you're a no go trashy slut. So everybody around you, everybody will realize that you are pregnant and you are not supposed to be pregnant because you haven't been married yet. And, oopsie, that's a bad look. So a slutty young teenage child bride essentially is the mother of Christ. Right. Anyway, you slide. It rhymes. It rhymes. And she was like, yes, I am down for that. Let's go. Let's do it. Cool. Okay. She was down for it. She wasn't a real slut. Signed up. Yeah, well, I just, I do just think that the rhyme, the rhyme of slutty compassion is a liberating, a liberating philosophy to have because a lot of us imagine ourselves to be compassionate people, but in a rather prudish kind of way that is only reserved for like decent good people. The deserve that deserve that deserve compassion. And then there are other people who just aren't good enough to receive our compassion. And I think that goes like largely unquestioned and completely unconscious in most people's minds. And you do have to become a real fucking slut to be willing to like open your heart to having compassion for even people that you don't agree with. And even people that you think are maniacal. And, yeah, it's just, it always reminds me. I had this dear friend in grad school and one day I did something that offended her. And we, you know, we made up. We had a little, you know, and she was like, for a minute there, I was really worried that you were a bad person. And I was like, I'm a person. I was like, I didn't realize we had to split everything to categories, good people and bad people. And there are folks, there's tons of people who go around with seeing the world through that lens. It's just like, it's never made any sense to me. I mean, and thank God for the 12-step rooms because I feel like those are places where one can really learn actual, really get religion, really get truly. Really, really grok what is meant by compassion and love and forgiveness. Yeah. And anyways, so I'm not able, I've never been able to like, my mind has just like never operated in those terms. And my mind is also never, I also really love that Babylon is a whore. And Babylon is like, you know, what is selling herself. And she's triumphant. And she's not, like, I've been thinking about this a lot. Ever since, I've sent it out to my email list of the formscapes video, which I cannot remember the name of, but it's something about the divine womb, I think, in the title. Where he's talking about the will to domination, the will to escape and the will to new monocity. And he talks about it in such a way that's very smart, but really just privileges the will to new monocity. But as the more I thought about it, when I was like, you cannot have the will to new monocity without the will to power and the will to escape also. They are all on the tree of life that will to escape is the pillar of mercy, the will to dominate is the pillar of severity. And the will to new monocity is the middle pillar. And so that middle pillar doesn't really exist without those two other wills. Right. Yeah, the right, the central pillar is like an interference field created by the other poles. Yeah. So exactly. So you have to, so I can just really feel the way in which, like I said some spicy things on Instagram yesterday and people got offended with me. And plus I was doing in the context of marketing because I'm a disgusting or and I try to tell people this all the time and they just don't listen to your eyes. Clearly, you don't know me. You haven't paid attention. They're like, oh, I love you, Caroline, I just didn't know you were so tasteless and just I love you trying to sell me something that I might like in the context of talking about something deep and important. How could you do that? Oh, I thought you were different. I'm not. I'm not different. I'm a fucking whore like everybody else on Instagram, by the way. So I'm just like other girls. Okay. And I have a will to dominate and a will to escape. And that is part of what makes my my middle pillar will to new monocity is a giant astral cockbalva. It's huge. It's fucking huge. I can't even begin to explain it to you and how well it works and how much happiness and money it generates. And I'm actually jealous because I wish I fully been able to describe you in this way because it is true, Caroline. Your will to domination is strong and so is your will to escape. Like the amount of times that you text me being like Layla, if I figure out how to spin these tetrahedrons in my mind, I'm going to figure out how to teleport. I'm going to do it. Like you, you're like desire for the like highest knowledge of transcendent realms is like so pure and beautiful and strong and also like you were just showing me the listing for the castle that your husband wants to buy. And we were seriously considering what it would be like if we lived in a giant Sicilian castle. And it is true that those two things come together and make you have an enormous will to new monocity and like love and appreciation for the world as it is. I'm lonely, Caroline, your self-knowledge is free. And it is like a giant cock vulva of like generous penetrating juicy. Yeah, love. Like what else comes from a cock vulva situation? You only lingam extravaganza. Thank you. I'm so happy to be with myself. I just am like I'm just jealous but I can see it's worklierly myself. To be fair, I do, I have dreams of giant cock vulvas, just like giant ejaculating spasming, birthing, things. So I'm like, yeah, that's what's going on. That's, I can see that. Yeah. But it is just like I think about how a lot of people, very beautiful tender hearts, very compassionate, well-intentioned, just want to have that will to new monocity. They just want to, you know, love and forgive and ascend. And they're, they don't want to hurt anybody. They don't want to take, which means, and if you don't want to hurt anybody, ever, especially if you don't, if you define hurt as offending even. You cannot exist in the world. You cannot have that face chakra, like where you land and you make money and you get your hands bloody and dirty with the filth of the marketplace. And you, you know, the way you're talking. The way people need to understand. They need to understand. Because it's, you know, I've seen the best minds of my generation, like destroy themselves, uselessly, pointlessly, like keeping themselves in these little confined, you know, like, and it harmed you. What does that say? The way the weekends do it. And it harmed none. Do it that will. And it's like, yeah, but if you breathe, you're harming the micro, right, right, right. You cannot. And so, right, there is an inherent harm that is included in the great fullness. And that's why it's just do what that will to everybody. In case you've ever been fooled by some wicked nonsense, sterile gardener, did not know what the fuck he was on about. He was literally just cribbing notes from Alistair Crowley. So the original version is just do what that will does the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will. And, you know, so that's the truth. And you have to do that. And so when you do that, your will to new monocity, when I'm just telling you from personal experience with Layla is kindly co-signing for me, is that your will to new monocity becomes way more powerful creates way more actual beauty and bounty in the world. And it doesn't. There's a lot of flaccid spiritual people. There's a lot of flaccid, flaccid dryness in the spiritual world. It's true. Well, and I was just thinking about how like you like the will to new monocity is both like a creative act of like actually doing things that make the world more beautiful and create more abundance and generosity. And also the will to new monocity. Sorry, we got interrupted there. I'm not sure we don't know where we got cut off. Well, I think we got cut off when we were talking about the will to new monocity as not I was saying something along the lines of is not only a like generative will to new monocity, but it is like a will to like perception of the like luminous beauty of what is. And I think it's completely impossible to have an overflowing, turgid, juicy perception of new monocity if you if you can't deal with the will to domination or the will to escape like if you find either of them like yucky and objectionable. Of course, you're not going to be able to like perceive the new menace interplay of all things in manifest reality. Yeah, I really like that you use the word turgid because to me, that's really a DH Lawrence kind of word and I really like DH Lawrence. He wrote Lady Chatterley's lover. He was a fun erotic writer and DH Lawrence said the only aristocracy is the aristocracy of consciousness. And I feel like DH Lawrence just knew what was up. But he would really agree with you there, Laila. You would agree with us. You would agree with us. Everything we're saying. So we got that going for us. We do. And yeah, it's true, which is, you know, and so you were talking earlier to me about how like from the pessimistic, narcissistic, a sedic point of view of like this is a prison planet. We've got to get out of here. Yeah, this is a horrible world. This world is to be like not to be trusted. We've got to like see our way through the like evil tricks of the world. Like the world is the enemy. We have to like receive from it as much as possible. Eat only rice. Yes. Only rice. We're only burlap sacks. Never masturbate or enjoy fornications of any kind. That Babylon is way more exciting character because I feel like the acidic narcissism is of course like I mean the shorthand is it's the will to escape gone completely fucking crazy. It and it sounds like you might you might get somewhere with it, you know, people do have like potent religious experiences on that path, but like they came that like it can't be true because the reason that they're there having that experience is because somebody else was like fornicating and having a good time. So it just says I don't know like somehow it's not it's not holistic enough and it doesn't everything like how formscapes dude I'm going to find this video and like mention it. The description hopefully is that he talks about how both the will to escape and will to dominate cannot be the foundational logos of the world exactly because they do not require a world because like if the only point is to escape then why should why create a world in the first place right the tables of God can't be to escape because then God would never have imprisoned God self. It makes zero sound. It's like weird that you would have like an escape room being like metaphysical truth of reality. Yes, which is why not stick like those pessimistic, not stick myths always get so weird because they're always like everything was perfect and beautiful and then something went all wrong. Something went horribly wrong. This lie happened. This prison was created. What? Oh, okay. But anyways, so there's that and then there's the will to dominate also cannot be the tailos of the whole universe. Because if you just want to completely fucking control everything don't create anything at all you'll maintain perfect control if it's just not right for sure. So clearly the creator is not into like total domination and not into escape. Clearly there's something else. So that what I know I think I just probably talked about this in the last one yesterday did but it's just so important why not talk about it again is that like the fundamental difference between both the will to domination and the will to escape and the will to new monocity is that those two those two pillars are seeing the other as antagonist. Which is true to always true to a certain extent but to a limited extent not to an absolute extent right like there are people that whatever I'm competing against in the marketplace they are antagonists. If I get lost in the forest you know nature red and in tooth and claw will probably destroy me pretty quickly because I don't have any Tom Brown survival skills. So they will antagonize me okay yes but it cannot be true in the absolute sense it just can't be like I'm on an absolute level the other is loving because the other is the precondition of my existence in this world at all. So that in itself is love like you said there was fucking that precipitated me even being able to have the wonderful fun of transcending the present of matter whatever it is. Yeah so you didn't get here by like transcendence being already the case so that can't be the like universal truth it can't be the bedrock. And then I didn't just bring you back to like how that's such a wonderful like the symbol of Babylon riding the beast is such a wonderful symbol of that because like it's not Babylon slaying the beast. It's Babylon like majestically triumphantly riding the beast and the beast isn't transformed into like a gentle lamb or like a unicorn or even like a normally attractive lion. It's a terrible beast that just is the way that it is and still like Babylon triumphantly rides it in all of her slutty allowance and compassion and I just I don't know that just inspires me. I was thinking that maybe like a gateway drug to appreciating the full beauty of that image could be for some folks the rider weight image of the strength tarot card which is a nice chased looking lady in a white robe holding open the mouth of a very conventionally handsome lion. And the implication is of course that she has tamed the lion this beastly strength this ferocious force through her chased and gentle loving presence. Her innocence her innocence just diffuses the ravenousness of the lion. It couldn't harm her because why would it want to she's so sweet and beautiful. And it's like he's in her loving vibrational field so he's just going to let her be the boss and it's kind of so it's amazing. That in itself is a teaching about like okay true strength is this gentleness that can overcome all ferocity right. And then Alistair Crowley was like great you know what strength really is a little less than let's illustrate that. So then if you look at the third deck you see exactly what we've been talking about which is the image of Babylon riding the beast. Yeah the more fully translated advanced version. Yeah and there's like an ecstasy and like and and I think that's just you know the true tantra the whole thing seems to exist for pleasure on some level and excitement and titillation. So I do think that lust is just a better transmission because I do think that lust energy like that word has more more to do with more things than maybe just like love. I think love sometimes feels a little like trickly it's a little trickly it's like blue Mary in her like holding the baby Jesus not like horror virgin horror mother Babylon like give it to me in printing with the seed of the Lord God. A real real Mary like what was really going on when the angel came to call you know what I'm saying. Just insane you know just like very turned on yeah totally which is funny because I was just thinking about how like the typhonian order of Kenneth Grant which is like one of the weirdest esoteric orders on the planet. And there's a version of filetma very prominently features the dove and I guess the other seals of filetma feature the descending dove of which in conventional Christianity is the Holy Spirit. And but they understand the dove as you know a symbol of Babylon and a symbol of this. What a grace of the great horror exactly exactly so which is also funny to me because it's a little fun little precognition when I was in college I really used to fantasize a lot about being in a 1950s style girl gang called the bloody doves. Pictures of this in my notebook and make little collages and it was all I really wanted and I feel like I truly have that these days with you and Lucy and Lisa and everybody like Danny shout out Holly all the wonderful ladies. Of the soms faculty. The bloody doves. The bloody doves. Yeah I do feel like that's what we're trying to do here Carolyn is bring down the grace of like what if you were just way more Horishness. But we were Horishness to your consciousness. I mean every single woman I've ever met I don't know about men. Maybe but I'm sure you don't they're all good too but the every single woman I've ever met has had such a tender compassion at heart Lord they're already saints every single woman is already a saint. And sure she might be a complete asshole too but like the same art is already there. And I feel like it just needs permission to coexist along with the ass holeery and in full. And to become I don't know I guess I just noticed with being around women is that the more they give themselves permission to be that you know nature read and tooth and claw and have that ferocity the more they thrive and the more their compassionate hearts can be effective in the world. I've seen it with you Laila. Oh thank you. It's been glorious. It's been a glorious transformation to witness. Oh thank you. Yeah I feel like I was always kind of mean no that's not true anyway whatever we don't need to talk about it. Yeah I just really appreciate the perspective that the world is loveable and to be loved even in its shittiness much more than it is a trick to be seen through. Anyway that's yeah and also and what I love about uh so like to sort of tie this all in with battle magic which you can buy today for one payment of five hundred dollars or six low though payments of ninety nine dollars a month less than what you're probably spending on door dash and Uber eats my friends you can participate in this wonderful course where we're doing deep work on shadow recollection and profound level of restorative the orgy that just uh you know brings this magnificent balance into the world and to our lives and anyways shadow recollection work I feel like is what gave me the ability to begin to do this to begin to have an actually empowered will to new monocity and I guess I was thinking about this with you too Leila and we were talking about it recently with folks and sleepover mystery school which is that this oftentimes spiritual folks want to do some sort of work that involves their talents, their compassion, their actual thing and they are very afraid of being seen as a con person, a charlatan, an exploitative cult leader creep and all of my happiness in life has come from just agreeing to that be like okay you are whoever you are out there you are entirely welcome to see me as an utterly exploitative con man creep cult leader buyer charlatan whenever you want and I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing and you can pay me come on in and it's really good and because and as long as I was afraid of that perception of that perception which and as long as I was being afraid of receiving that projection from people and as long as I was afraid of that actual vibration in my psyche which was like fuck yeah I'll you know there was I could feel there was a part of me that would be like willing there was willing to prostitute myself in a not cool unconscious way that was willing to be a people pleaser that was willing to like you know I could feel that in myself and it was funny is that that shadow was operative when I didn't approve of it I mean that's the thing with unconscious contents is right are fully operative when you are not agreeing to them consciously so like I was like I'm just going to try to be a good person in my level of denial that actually saves you from doing the thing that you're afraid of yeah you just don't even recognize that you're doing it exactly meanwhile I was conning people left and right with my weird people pleasing sickly sweet love and light bullshit and and I was poor so like really it's just sucked all around it was completely pointless and then a deep level of creative energy and you know everything yeah I mean creative energy like life force vitality became available to me when I was like actually I see this shadowy thing and I'm willing to like be like yes that exists that's a part of me you are welcome to see that in me you are I'm definitely capable of acting in that way if I'm not you know like I'm aware that I could behave in an exploitative way with the members of my mystery culture if that occurred to me like I could be like yes why yes you could have sex with me for special teachings or whatever which is like right the oldest trick in the book and would totally work would totally work on a number of very funny people who I just decide not to do that too but it's not as if there's zero part of me that would like to have adoring sex with adeps it's not as if that doesn't exist within me it's not as if like you don't even fathom how anybody could do such a thing like I understand quite well what the alert of that is and anyways so it's so consciously accepting like that is a part of me the part that could choose to do that is completely present and that monstrous will to dominate will to exploit completely there and I'm just not going to exert it and I'm not going to pretend like it doesn't exist like if it comes up I'm going to talk to my trusted spiritual support system so they can be like no Carolyn don't do that and I'm really great thank you for reminding me that I need not do that yeah so anyways all of which I'm is to say it's by recollecting that part of the shadow I gained a lot of creativity and a lot of joy and a lot of ability to be honest and to not be people pleasing and to not be leaking sexual energy outside of my monogamous commitments and not just to not do the fucked up shit but still people see me like that and I cannot control well you cannot control people's projections right you can only you can only have a good awareness of self to say hmm that seems to be your own shadow that you are tilting at over here I'm pretty clear that that's not what's actually going on no I do want it so anyways so I'm pretty at peace with allowing people to project whatever they want on to me and I was reading Louis von Franz and she was talking about how sorry I was reading Louis von Franz and she was talking about how projections do have a negative impact on the people who receive the projections which I think is quite obvious like you look at any Hollywood star right and how crazy they go and they're receiving all so much projection right from so many people and and I had this interesting thing where like oh my god my back and my neck was like really hurting so so much and I could not figure it out I was like getting multiple massages a week and going to chiropractors and doing relaxation and stretches and all of this stuff and it wasn't until I like tuned in and was really looking for like what what were the representations there and I saw that I had like psychic representations of like voices saying mean things so it wasn't images but it was like my muscles were like reacting and tensing up against like voices that you know like as critical like as if other people were criticizing me and my muscles so those were like a a mental representation outside of my conscious awareness until I really searched for it and tuned into it and once I changed that representation using the tools that I've learned from Dr. Robert completely one way the pain the tension the tension utterly gone so I'm really grateful for that but it got me thinking I'm like I was just like okay so it could have been something that I entirely generated in my own psyche sure and also pretty sure there's some bitches I used to be friends with who were out there talking shit about me love you get everything you want me and I was like yeah they like anyways I was just feeling the truth of Marie out the way is von Franza statement which is like that's why we're afraid of the evil eye and that's the whole Mediterranean was really on guard about the evil eye because they recognized that you can with your malevolent thoughts like create actual negative effects for other people that will hurt them and yeah so it's just a deep thing to think about so anyways that's another reason to put effort into recollecting one's own projections which by the way 1000% are doing them all humans project shit that's we completely do it all day long and it drains us of our own creative energy it drains us of our own self knowledge it drains us from really from being in the position to take full responsibility for our power and exercise it in the world you know what this is making me think Carolyn but on the topic of battle magic I hope I can explain this because it just sort of flash into my mind that this shadow projection of like evil and wrong that it's like totally legit to do every sphere of people has another group of people that it's completely okay to just like talk shit and hate on them and think they're awful you know who I don't like those dirty materialists that's why exactly that's what you find it completely okay to just hate on and yeah exactly so pretty much every group of people every ideological thought bubble universe has a you know group of others that it's totally okay to project hate on to but some ideological thought bubbles are deeply harmed by the projection of evil onto them and some ideological thought bubbles have evolved the capacity to be fed and nourished by evil being projected onto them and they actually grow stronger the more that other groups hate them and revile them and think they're evil and try to take them down and put all of the world put their essentially like when you are like I'm a good and virtuous person not like that evil group over there there are some groups that are like yes give me your evil I want to be associated with evil that makes me stronger and more dominating and so one of the most powerful things we can possibly do to diminish the power of those ideological thought bubbles is to stop projecting evil onto them because they are like growing because of that oh so well said really well said like yeah I really and even I was you were just talking about them as thought bubbles I was really seeing the Taurus form you know which is like the most stable dynamically moving shape and and like the way that they're they're sort of these like epic kind of vampiric toruses I guess you could say we're like predatory they're sort of what yeah I know what you mean they're well I think like Carlos Castaneda would call like anyways I don't need to give in to all that weird stuff I know what you're talking about and I know that like yeah the more that people hate and fear them and you know cast yeah they're definitely energized by that and strengthen by it so it is an act of battle magic to be like I'm not going to villainize you anyway that's what I started talking about about oh yeah that was the tip I was on talking about not perceiving an absolute antagonist like just knowing that that the adversary is just another archetype the adversary is necessary the proper response to the adversary is to ride the adversary to like embrace the adversarial energy and be grateful for it to like lovevine enemies is the generative response to adversarial energy not the like the fearful shaming blaming response because that can totally just energize plenty of those forms I know yeah yeah it's also make me think about how like their thought bubbles that like their their toruses of ideology or whatever that thrive by like completely outsourcing all perception of evil and are like sucking up I don't know like that are that are largely projective and that cast themselves totally as good and cast the evil elsewhere and then the evil ones are only two happy I mean whatever these are relative terms but are only too happy to like suck up all the like evil that's being expelled from the like super good ones and like becoming stronger and stronger anyway I just I can see very clearly how all the forces of imbalance are fed by the fact that like we're like I got an outsource I can't I can't be associated with this evil it's got to go somewhere and someone else is like great I need it that's my power amazing and yeah just being going to be like you know what actually I'll just take responsibility for my own human size lot of evil and that's mine I don't need it to be somewhere else I don't need you to carry it for me I can just comfortably be associated with my own regular mortal human amount of evil I love it is like then there's no surplus to be found anywhere because we're all carrying our full weight and no one destroys the world you're really getting to the heart of what it is and it's also like there's and so that attitude that basic sanity what that attitude does and I think the reason why I was very slow would want to come to it and why most people in their lifetimes never get to that attitude at all like I will take responsibility for my portion of evil here I will suffer its consequences I will know that it is there I will be on the lookout to try to responsibly manage its impact whatever the reason why most people don't take that like humble related human level of responsibility is because it means deflating their unconscious archetypal identification with how do I say basically with the self itself so like when one starts so how do I it's I'm it's still difficult for me to explain because I kind of get this intuitively but I haven't spent a lot of time putting it into words and there's a wonderful book called ego and archetype by Edward Ettinger that goes deep into this but basically Ettinger talks about how we're all born in a state of total inflated identity with the archetype of the self in the sense that every baby is the son of their universe and it should be so they experience themselves as the center of everything and they don't know they don't know that they are conscious they don't know that other people are conscious they have to develop a unique individuated consciousness when so if you sort of remain in that unconscious identification with the self you're sort of remaining so physically like if you don't individuate if you don't come into proper human relationship with the archetypes of you know the adversary the son the you know love all everything you're sort of just riding whatever is in the collective unconscious of whatever is closest to you so you know your family your culture your news media you're just basically kind of like an automaton being run by those programs and you're not which is very comfortable there's a lot of certainty and reassurance and affirmation in it there's a lot of material benefit in it because as long as you're agreeing with your family and your news media and your religious group you are you're right for advancement yes and as long as you are agreeing with them about who the evil other is and who you know you are cozy you're just like bobbing along in this like it's frictionless yes there's there's no friction between you and other because you kind of aren't other than other exactly so you get to stay in sort of like this baby-esque condition of not being responsible for your own shit and of just imagining that other people elsewhere are responsible for your shit so comment so deciding not to do that deciding to recognize like oh wow there is a portion of evil in me and it doesn't mean I need to like pull out my hair and you know berate myself it's just every human has this as part of their fractal holographic inheritance this is mine oh and also by the way I also have this glowing star like wonderfulness in me just as literally every other human being does and it's so like recognizing that and like recognizing like wow this wonderfulness is not something foreign that belongs to somebody else this terribleness is not something completely foreign that only belongs to somebody else they I have a portion of each of these and I need to see relate to the world as honestly and as equanimously as I can instead of through these like really like vast distorted, imbalanced views which the archetypal possessions create I don't know I'm probably still doing a bad job of putting it into words but that's so much of what this work entails is being willing to and Edward Edinger talks about and this is I find this very connected to the work that you do in your forbidden fruit coaching container Leila because it's about he says that what you know 90 pretty much everybody needs to do and many people avoid doing is they need to do something that is completely taboo from their socialization so like not you know which could be literally something of like I'm going to say what I actually think on Instagram or to my mom I'm going to you know go out with my boyfriend and wear this dress or whatever it could be literally anything it could be I'm going to start my own business it could be I'm going to make art whatever but it needs to be something that like the person they perceive it is like oh no if I do that I need to actually make money right like that's usually like one of the first level excuses or like if I do that like what would my mom think of me or what would my aunt Jenny think or what would Bruce my cousin I don't know yeah totally totally and you need to do whatever that taboo thing is in order to realize in order to accomplish just the first steps into individuation because there's no way that you begin your individuation while completely complying with the conditioning that you've been handed that's what it is right absolutely yeah I mean I'm my shorthand for it is that like everyone knows that being possessed by a demon is bad news but it's equally bad news for your evolution as an individuated person to be possessed by angels and so if everyone around you is just constantly like so happy with you and just like never has anything wrong with you chances are you are again you are possessed by angels and you're not really being you at all you're living in that baby like frictionless essentially immature state wildly dishonest wildly dishonest cannot be true and and and then you know thinking about this in the light you know circling back to the thing we were talking about before if you are completely associated with the angelic goodness then you inherently must be projecting the demonic badness elsewhere and someone's doing something with that and accumulating it and like forging it into power and you cannot pretend that you're not supplying that by your own complete attachment to your angelic goodness and innocence yes it's definitely the debts have to be paid like you're that's a great way of putting it towards yeah absolutely you are literally giving your power away you're giving away your inheritance as a you know sublime little fractal of God and trying to pretend like you ate the whole thing like you're only right some little part anyways yeah it's deep it goes deep so that's what we're doing in that's what I'm doing in battle magic is I'm seeing folks hey come on I'll show you what I know about re-owning re-collecting these projected parts of ourself and oh this is a fun thing it's like people it's very nice people say very nice things to me about like my skin and how young I look and how beautiful I am thank you everybody who says that I completely agree and it comes from I really truly know this and I really think that I should be able to find beauty sponsor for this I think it's the Lord that by eating by one truly eats you know eats these demons and angels like recollects these projections it improves the glandular function it improves the blood flow it boosts human growth hormone it boosts collagen production basically I'm trying to tell you the appeal to vanity it's a beauty course okay it's better than any whatever you know you pay for things to look more beautiful you take you go get manicures you get your hair done you go to the gym supplements I'm saying this will do a lot for you okay it's true it's true you will look younger you will look brighter you will have more vim and verb by battle magic I is not even untrue I know it's moving that's me you laugh the most I think it sounds so what is so true they're the one day where like I came down state maybe you were there maybe I was imagining they were there David was definitely there I came downstairs after I just done this deep working to like eat this like demon of alienation that was within me yeah I came downstairs and like everybody was like wow Carolyn you look great yeah and I was like I just I love it Carolyn by battle magic you heard it here folks you will be beautiful and also wise exactly exactly that's how we do it okay thanks for listening everybody thanks for tuning in and yeah battle magic will be open for registration just until tomorrow night so it's Thursday today when this is going to come out tomorrow will be Friday closes midnight on Friday Eastern time so if you're listening to this after battle magic is closed I'm sorry for your loss but you can stay tuned for other offerings from the Immortal College stay tuned for more podcast episodes and thank you so much for tuning in you are the coolest people that is no lie tell your friends keep posting ratings and reviews and sharing us that really really helps get the bizarre magical integrative word out there bye everyone