B. Pagels Minor: The State of Becoming

This episode is sponsored by Mogul Moments, a global brand that specializes in content, clothing, and collaboration. We help you find the miracle of greatness under love within you so you can make a statement that's powerful. So get ready to believe in yourself, overcome fear, and practice gratitude along your path with a purpose because you got work to do. Think about that. Mogul! The Nikki Eason Podcast. This is a podcast for someone who's at a crossroad. Not sure where to go. Know that they want more, deserve more. Not sure how to get there, but it's open to doing something different. They're at the stage of, "Should I keep going down this road or should I pivot and do something else?" Yeah, this is for you. Just up on my listeners around the world, it's your girl Nikki Eason, the Mogul, and welcome back to another episode of the Nikki Eason Podcast. Yo, I got an amazing person with me today. It's just amazing to have them here. You just meet people along your way. You just get inspired. You get inspired. You get, like, wait a minute. How did you do what you did? And how can I learn from you? And I feel like I always learn from them some things that I didn't know before, but without further ado, let's welcome B. Pagels Minor to the mic. B. Y'all bear with me because I said it over the beginning and now I had to fix it. B. Pagels Minor. Tell me again. You get, B. Pagels Minor. Yes, you got to forgive me. I love it. B. Pagels Minor. Yes. I got it. Okay. But I'm going to call you B. Is it all right? Yes, that's all you have to call me. Actually, it's so funny because people, like, I was in a meeting on the day and someone was like, hey, so is your name B? Yeah, and I was like, yeah, but technically it's B period, right? Because my legal name is B period. My middle name is Michael and my C H E L. Pagels Minor. That's my name, right? And so then she proceeded in the meeting to say B dot. What do you think? I know it's just hilarious and I didn't have the hard to be like, I didn't mean it's that seriously now. Like, you know, like, this is, that's a little intense. But no, my name is just B. I love it. I love it. I had the fortune to change my name, but it's changed it to what everyone already called me. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you for clearing that up. You know, and now I know and I understand I'm always big on like knowledge and understanding. So I appreciate it. But on the flip side of it, the Pagels come from from my wife. She white, right? It's understandable that it is not a normal name that we're used to seeing, right? Like that's also true. Right? And it's actually funny because when we were, when we got married, we were trying to make this decision about like, would we choose one name or another? Would we come, you know, when we combine in it? And she said, Hey, I really, really like my name. There's not that many Pagels. So like we actually did a search condition, really not that many Pagels left, right? Yeah. But I really like my name because mine are mean something where I'm from. So that's ultimately how we ended up with our name. We decided to combine them because they both met something to us. And they were pretty proud to keep that going. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Well, just what I say be like anybody who comes as a guest, I only asked him two questions because these two questions is how I started, you know, this, this podcast. So I always welcome those two questions to the table for guests. The first one is who are you and the second one is how did you get here? Now you can spin it any way that you want. I'm always in awe to see how, you know, guests answer it. But let's just first start with the first question. Be so who are you? Yeah. It's actually so funny because this is the quintessential question that drives people crazy. So first and foremost, I am in a state of becoming, right? I'm very hopeful that all people in a state of becoming, I jokingly say that, you know, because of the way society is now shaped really, you know, especially in the United States and somewhere around the world, we're very ageous, right? And so there's some restrictions that we put on people in terms of the dynamism that they're allowed to have. Like it's like after 50, you don't really get allowed to really do crazy stuff. Although now we have like the over 50 list. And also like every woman who was on there, I was just like, I don't know if I love you because you're like so smart and brilliant or because like I just like older women are great. I don't know. But there's something dynamic about all these women, right? Like it's amazing, right? Because we are finding out like because of the advances of science and all this other stuff, we gonna be here, right? And we're gonna be here longer than we've ever thought. And so there's just like responsibility I feel to never see the coming, the best version of myself. Like one of the things I always tell folks is that I'm from Mississippi, right? So I'm from this deeply, you know, anti-al of the things. Like, right? Yeah. Except for church. That's the only thing like everybody, hurt your football actually. Yeah. Only two things. Like actually the governor of Mississippi said that folks needed to start wearing their mask because they thought they were gonna have to delay the NCAA football season. And he was like, we can go without a lot of stuff, you know, healthcare, right, indoor plumbing, right? But we cannot go without football, right? So this is how important it is. And I think coming from that background, it just became so clear to me that the only real difference between successful people and not successful people was access. But there's only one real way that I could figure out how you could get access to the manual and job. Okay. It's to be super smart or to try to become as smart as you can about something, right? And so that's why I'm a source of becoming because my first focus was technology, right? I was like, if you had asked me, you know, six years ago, I was like, I'm a technologist. I'm going to be this and the product leader. I'm going to be a chief product officer, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I started doing it and I started going at your trajectory. And I was like, this is the dumbest stuff ever. It's like, you know, once you get to a certain level, especially at large companies, you just aren't allowed to do the fun stuff, honestly, right? You're not allowed to be as dynamic. You're not allowed to, you know, go off and do experiments and actually test stuff because there's millions of customers who are in the case of like Apple. There's billions of customers. And so there isn't necessarily the appetite to be as aggressively. Responsible, right to our customer, right? Because to me, like when I see an app that has like some obvious thing that's missing, you know, and the thing is all here, like 12 people will say all the same thing, like the great example is like with Apple messages. Yeah. Everyone's like, you know, Android has been able to understand messages for forever. What can Apple do that? And I'm just like, well, first and foremost, Android has people on multiple different types of Android versions that have multiple different types of states that have multiple different types of skin that are operating things. So they can in some ways, you know, do block for trauma to, you know, something to jam something in. Whereas with Apple has promised this like seamless, delightful experience. And then everyone has to be on the same thing at all the same time and it has to have all the security. And then they operate in the most secure states and secure countries in the world. Yeah. So there's a complexity in making one chain, right? And on one hand, I'm cool with that because at the same, you know, like my phone works, like it's supposed to my lab software. So like we were having actually we weren't having technical issues. We were having like a preparation issues because they all have a toddler. And I had two doctors appointments that both went along today. I was just like, how y'all all going to be late? You know, I had to, I literally love one of Dr's appointments. I told him I said, I'm going to get a snack real quick and I'm going to come back because I'm starting to get angry. Right. Right. Y'all are taking too long. And she looked at me. She said, are those like new old milk wrappers, you know, from Starbucks that I said, girl, they really are like they got the brown in flavor. And so then I was just like, you see how calm I am. Yeah. I said, why y'all got me in here for an hour and a half? You cannot hold me hostage like this. So anyway, that's another story. We're continuing to work on their ability to get me out of their fast. Uh-huh. Oh, but that's a situation. Especially since the doctor wants North Western too, I said, we went to the same school, bro. Yeah. All right. We should be family like you should be able to understand if someone who spent a lot of my time in Chicago that I need to eat as certain intervals. Right. And then they did tell me I can't ask for snacks and they would bring them in. So like now, where I think we're getting closer to where we need to be in the school. But again, that's neither here nor there again. I said, I'm Southern. I make a size it totally make fun. It's really does. Yeah. Anyway, so right. So, you know, I go from this place, right? You know, coming up, you know, as this techno file, like that's what I thought I was, right? Because it was also so far away from what was in my community. It still felt precious and unique and different. But I was so pissed because it was so annoying trying to actually do that. It's, you know, and so, you know, after I had my kid, you know, we didn't really have to go back to, you know, work really quickly. And so it was this opportunity to really start to explore, right? With I could do anything, what would it be? And so I fell into consulting because, you know, if you have a good enough rat, you could convince people to pay lots of money to like help them do things, which is like fascinating to me because those same people would not have hired me for like the VP role or a chief product officer role, but they were totally fine to pay me like double or triple that amount. Yeah. To consult with them. So anyone listening to this, think about that. Think about why, you know, they will, they would not hire this black trans body human who was in the sea sweet in places like Apple and Netflix helping to make certain types of decision. Yeah. But then was never given the title. And by the way, I got paid more than most CEOs, right? Because of like how much I got paid to work in Silicon Valley. And so it's always been this like fascinating thing to me, this ability to for people to who work with you every day to understand who you are. But for someone who's outside of it to give you this heightened value, then in some ways it's probably, I don't know if it's value, if it's true or not, but the very least the work that you do with them helps. And so that consulting really helped unlock something for me, right? Because I realized that there is this ability to start scaling up the things I hate it and the project organizations I wanted because what I hate it was not actually product and what I hate it was the inefficacy of corporation, right? The lack of, you know, foresight for corporations to think about the proximate, you know, cause of turnover, right? Of dissatisfaction employees, right? How can I possibly ever make a successful, amazing product? If I'm constantly struggling just to make sure that my team has the basic things that they need to feel comfortable and psychologically say to create great products, right? You know, Google did this famous study. Yeah, they studied all different versions of teams. And what they found out is that the only rule of why a team truly is successful because of psychological safety. That means that people can be from completely disparate background, right? They could speak different languages, anything. But if there are some commonalities, there's some way that that team finds some way to bond and begins to trust each other, they can do anything, right? And so, I think about that, right? Because I'm a sports person too. Yes. It's that idea of the Rudy story, right? It's the idea of like the '96 Atlanta Braze to this day, like, wow, like that team, like they always like, you know, they all were grown up together. It's the Golden State Warriors, right? It's this idea, right? If you get these folks and you put the time and energy, it's like, wow, gosh, like, wow, like it's just like this really, really cool thing, right? Because you feel so comfortable, so safe that these folks even to this day, they're like best friends, right? They still look out for each other. And so then I realized that the reason that that doesn't happen as often anymore is because the pressure, corporations are not being put under to create this facade of success. And I say facade because the simple fact is you can goose numbers in so many different ways, right? If I'm, you know, a CEO and my investor says, I need to see more traffic on the site to trust that they're like, but I can figure out how to generate more traffic. You can hear that. If they say that I need to see more leads, I can figure out how to see more leads, you know? The one that they typically don't ask for when it first starts to be easy, because they're like, it's going to take a while to close, going to take a while for you to get revenue. So they don't talk about that, right? Which is also a little acid, I know me. But that's a whole other conversation, right? Oh, I know. And it goes back to this idea, though, right? That we start to make people value the wrong thing, which means that we then ask our employees and our team, right? Because we're chasing the wrong types of metrics to do the wrong types of work, right? To execute in half-ass ways. Like the number one thing that I will tell you is like the most frustrating thing is tech debt. Like if you are in a product or like, you know, you're supposed to try to allocate some tech debt, but they're also constantly trying to build new things because they've been told to do XYZ blah, blah, blah, blah. And so that tech debt is usually the reason like the crowd striving thing happens or everything gets shut down and Windows doesn't work, right? Because no one's had time to fully get rid of that piece of code. Because from what I understand, it's like the smallest piece of code that simply if it had been removed properly would have just like everything was going to swim in, right? And I could imagine some product person or some, you know, you know, head of engineering or some even CEO who was just like, but we're supposed to deliver this, we're behind schedule. Let's just, you know, go for it. It should be fine, right? Right. And that is that lack of foresight is what has like really damaged our ability to build the best type of technology to build the best type of company and to really innovate. And so that's why I slowly got into venture, right? Yeah. Because I was just like, man, like if I could like consult with people, if I could like really explain to them that there is a profitable way to do this. Right. There's no reason we can't figure out how to do revenue. I was actually talking to this like very brilliant woman. Her name is Annie Brown and the name of the company is reliable. So it's an AI company. And they're thinking about how to scale up getting demographic data, right? Especially for states that now want to hold VCs accountable to demographic information. But think about it from a diligence perspective, right? Being able to go through and say, hey, ADCDE, this person, you know, fit certain parameters that would, you know, be important to your LPs, for instance. Yeah. And you know, she's like, oh, we have to write a couple more white papers. I was like, oh, let's go out there and just start selling it. I'm sorry, because that's the sub-briall. As like, that product makes more sense to me, right? Yeah. Then 90% of the products that come across my desk all the time. And so that's what I started to realize, especially for those types of founders, those founders who are already thinking about how do I do right by my employees? How do I do right by the data that I'm supposed to be collecting? How do I, you know, implement my product in such a way that it can grow, you know, and become potentially that billion dollar products? But I want to start to include as many people as possible because I think I have a moral responsibility to improve my product as fast as humanly possible. So we can be more impactful. Yeah. And so being able to imbue this like acceleration into them has really started to become who I am. Right. You know, yes. I hate the rocket ship analogy, but to me, it's the rocket field. Like, the name of my firm divergent ventures, you know, it comes from, you know, the pole on the Robert Frost poem, you know, two roads, the bird, in the woods. And so a lot of people think about it as that there's just like difficult choice, right? And that the choice is like this idea that the road that has that has not been walked on, right? There's some bravery in going on that road. That's what a lot of people assume is the intent. That's not the intent. And that's not really the intent of a lot of Robert Frost poem. Yeah. But he's trying to really say is that there is a certain responsibility in every decision that we make and that there's ramifications big and small from those decisions, but we simply have to move forward and make them. And sometimes you will go on the road that is untrottened, right? And so it may be more difficult and maybe more dynamic. You may sell and maybe awesome. We don't know. But the same can be said of the road that looks beautiful. Right? And so the idea for us as always, been is that we have travelers, like, you know, the folks who come into our universe, they're travelers with us, right? And so we give our travelers different things our founders. We're really trying to give them that rocket fuel. It really is what it is. Like, you know, our first investment, the precision epidynamics, you know, I really chose them for so many reasons. One is that my partner, Jeremy, he's like the most skilled dude ever. And he was so like, he was like, he was like, I was like, he's like, I personally, I'm going to invest, but like we really have a more responsibility. And it's because we both are so passionate about healthcare outcomes. Like we, we all know, actually, everyone I know knows someone who has had cancer. And then everyone I know, I know someone who's had cancer, who should have gone to the doctor sooner. But the reality is, when we have lived in a society where the medical system feels scary, depending on what you look like, depending on who you love, you may not be treated well, you don't necessarily want to interact with that system. And so one of the things I've always thought about is trying to create or trying to support tools that increase the likelihood of the first that people get information early about what's going on, right? Especially, you know, like the colon canter, things like that, have a tendency to impact, you know, black lives, especially. And it's also something that has a high rate of death if you don't catch it early, but on the flip side, if you catch it early, it has a high rate of survival. Right. So it's one of those like really simple things. But it also goes to this idea of you cannot have people going once, twice, three, four, ten times to something, right. And then you have to bring someone we have a moral responsibility to get them the answers they need instantly, right. Or as incidents we can so that we can keep them in the room. And I learned this by being a board director at How about hell. So how about hell is one of the largest LGBTQ plus, you know, health centers in the world. And they always used to say is that they would have all these dropping hours and they would have like rapid HIV testing, STD testing, not because, you know, you know, they couldn't do it in different time frames. They just knew if they could get it as quickly as possible, you could keep that person in the center. And you can not care to that person to make sure if they friends that did have something right like that was a major disease, they wouldn't even be a danger. Right. And so the same principle comes here. If you get someone at the point where they're really well willing to start going to the doctor, you want to do it. And so that's one of the things precision epiduromics are very first product. And so it's really great about because the goal is for it to well, actually, it already has was diagnosed to do so far. So it's a startup. So to is actually huge people who don't know. Like having a real patient who's purchased the test, who had an actual, you know, diagnosis is essentially what we were looking for. Obviously many more people have taken the test, but to actually diagnose two people with cancer, but you know, there's 20 different cancers. If you check out the websites of precision epidemiology, 20 different cancers were focusing on the start off with we can return results within three days to three business days. Most of the tests are within around two weeks. Right. So think about that. That's 11 extra days to know what's going on and to aggressively start fight. That's why I'm super stoked right because you know we're starting off we're working with doctors, but eventually I want them to be directed consumer. They also want to be directing consumer because my goal is to really put health care people's hands. Right. You know, I am really disabled. I've come out of the closet. I am legally disabled. My little hand, you can't tack it is so cool to. And like I always make sure I'm dressed in class with it too. So this one deal was like, you know, looking at you. I was like, let me cap with different. I was sassy pants with it. Yes, I was because I have a bigger platform than other people and I want people to know that disabled people look all kinds of ways like you don't know what the. And so knowing that right like to me, I'm like, I just won't my whole DNA in my hair with like whatever. So I can say, hey, actually insurance. I know you don't want to do XYZ. I think based on my DNA panel, you should be checking it out right because that's where we need to be really like if we can think about it. If you like one of the first investments I ever made was this company called day, the start off in the UK, they're coming to the US and they are a feminine care product. So you know, your tampon, your you know, feminine napkin, you put it directly in your underwear based on, you know, your dish charges they can actually tell you that you have certain diseases right because to me again, if we can meet people where they are. Have them just be in their space right and say, hey, like you just have a diagnosis now connect with your local doctor. That's the dream helping people be healthy. So ultimately, right, who am I? I always tell people so my my my monocardial truth teller, like I like to go out and meet people to tell people the truth because I think it's super important. I think I'm also very fortunate because like I'm so chill about it that people listen and I really, really hope more people listen because it's super important that you understand that this isn't about politics. And about any specific values. This is about the responsibility we have to ourselves and our families to be healthy and awesome. Then, you know, I feel like I'm a dream maker, like, you know, for a long time, you know, I think everyone thinks that they want to be famous, but then I actually kind of got famous for a while and it was stressful. Like I did not like that people came into my life. What I love though is that when people get in my life who are amazing, I had this opportunity to say, well, actually, I know some. Yeah, let me see if I can connect to you. And I realized that that is my that's like my dopamine. That's my drug. Like especially when they come back and say like it hooked up like someone like before we did our first close for my my fund of urgent ventures. Like there's this company and I still like I still want to invest in the one that if we can. It's a really great company called wealthy W L L T H I, you know, amazing black woman founder. And so like I was like, we don't we haven't closed yet. I don't have cash to invest, but I still, you know, dropped her, you know, profile and so couple groups and she got to invest me from someone. And I was like, it stoked about that as if I had written the check because I realized like, you know, for a long time, especially for someone like me, you feel like you have no ability to augment the world. Yeah. And so what I've realized is that, you know, anyone has the ability to augment the world, right? You really do. I was, you know, I was telling someone recently because you know, they were speaking not really derogatory really about unhoused people, but not in a way that I like. Right. And you know, it's basically like, you know, they're causing mess and I was like, I don't disagree with your point. The reason they're causing mess is because we're treating them so poorly, right? Like, why would you do something better if people go mess up your stuff anyway, right? Like, why should I respect you if you not go respect me? Like, that's where I go to instantly. But beyond that, I always, I told him my favorite story about this on house. So I talk to every again. I mean, based on how much I'm talking here. Y'all can tell. It's okay. I love it. Like, go ahead. Like, like, when I'm just like today, I was at the doctor's office and like, one of the nurses came through with some food. I was like, I got the door free. But then she came through too much. She's like, I can't believe you open a door to you. I was like, I'm from Mississippi. I'm going to do it. But then she sat down and we started talking kick in. We talked about like the best. Like, because I like to be kind to people. Again, that stuff makes me feel good. Right. So this unhoused dude, his name was like will you or something like that? And like, honestly, I feel like he told me a different name all the time. But I feel like in my head. It's really the one that's not. But he would see me all the time. In fact, one time I had the flu. And so he didn't see me for a while. When I came back, he's like, you too skinny. What'd you do? He's like, you not doing drugs now. Right. I said, no, my mama will look mocks. Y'all know, you know, what's up in it? That's my mama was a four foot 11 dynamic. You know, you made it. Who is terrifying? It's like she would like, it was like levitate up into whoop the ass. I was like, I didn't even get up there. Yeah, because like she was so sure. I was so good to take it to my butt. I'm just saying. I was like, how did you even have like go back that far? Do you hit me? And my mom, like, you know, we are anti-popol punishment. Right. But I only got like five like real real bad whoop into my whole life. And every single one of them, I'm be true for I deserve every single one of them because it was real bad what I did. Yeah. Like it was real bad, but we're not going to talk about that into it. So Willie, whose name is probably not Willie, but that's what's not. You know, one time I was sick, you know, and he noticed I was gone. But then this other time, like I had gotten off the train. So anyone who's been in Chicago, there is the. Lauren stop. Yes, the Lauren stop. So you get no. No, I am correct. The Lauren stop. So you get off from the Lauren stop and you have to walk up. There's like nothing there. Like it's just kind of like decil it. Yeah. Right. So like I'm just like walking and like Willie is just like. And I was like, really never stands up. He was always chilling there own his like little crate drinking his copious amounts of you know what we probably know it was right. Whatever. And he just like comes up and he starts running behind me and I had heard something because like I was always smart. I always had like one ear out because I was like I'm not going to die this way. And I was like, I have a very specific way I'm a guy is not going to be this way. It's like I'm saying it, especially in like the snowy drifts in Chicago that are like dirty. Like they're not even white anymore. They're black. Oh hell no. Okay. I'm not dying like that. So anyway, Willie like you know goes and like like like shoes them off. And he's like, you leave me alone. You leave me alone. I was like Willie. I was like what he's like, I didn't like how he looks. I mean, the dude was booking it. I was like, Willie, I think you probably say my like he's like, no, I was like, okay, Willie. Yeah. And I was like, well, next time I come over, I say you want some chicken wings or you want the chicken fries. He's like, you don't like the chicken. That's always the chicken. But I was like, all right. And then that was the rest of it. But the reason I say that is is that I really don't know. Like that like the person could have tried to kill me or at the very least left me different than I was. And maybe I would be different than who I am now. Right. And so there's always this proximate effect that we have on others. And it doesn't matter. Right. If we think we have it, we still have. Right. And so the dream maker part, right. That's a huge huge thing to me. And I think that you know, I kind of got here because my mother. So my mother passed in 2012. You know, ultimately because you know, we were poor, right. You know, we didn't have the means to get her the care she deserved. And so people ignored her. Right. And what was so such an interesting. economy for me is that when we had her funeral, it was standing with her moment. Right? Like it was so many people and like all these people I never know. Right? And again, I said my mom's worth 11. I did say she could love it say which makes her impressive. Right? So you could see why some people might want to hang out with her. But it was really because she was Mama Suzy. Right? Like Mama Suzy, Mrs. She would make people food. She made the pink cake. But she listened to people people. Right? She cared deeply for people. You know, she had worked at juvenile court and then she worked at Shelby County Penetration Tree. But then as she was like getting on, she had, you know, going back to school. So in fact, she graduated from college the month before I did. Right? That was her number one goal. She was like, I really want to graduate before you do. And so she got it done. Right? And she was actually in grad school. So she was a couple of months away from her master's degree to be a guidance counselor. So she was like, be all my kids are raised now. I'm gonna go raise these other kids. And so ultimately she's just that person. She's just like always was super nice. And so all these people are coming. They were like, you don't know me. But your mom was the first one who told me I was worth something. You don't know me. But I worked with your mom. And like she's the one who told me I could go do this. And now I do that. And I realized, right? Is that like legitimately this idea of paying for it? So like I've always been courting. I just want to be clear. Like people think I'm full. The wardrobe is cool because like the thing is I could put an outfit to go. Right? But I am truly a corn ball in my heart. Because you know, that movie pay it for it. Like I remember watching it. I was like, you know, actually executed. I'm not and I probably was like 11. But it's like always been in my spirit to be this person. Yeah. But you know, what I really realized at that moment is just really crystallized. Like this is a real thing. Right? You can have like this multitude of impact just by listening to someone and saying, you know, actually know someone like we have a bunch of fellows coming on for the firm. And one of the people she's based in DC. And I was like, actually, I know like two or three people you should just like connect with. Right? And it's not because you know, she's, you know, working with me is because that's what we should do. Right? We should always be a net promoter of great people. Because when we complain about the people who rise to the top who are the trashiest worst folks in some of them run for president, it's because we have not uplifted the people who have who needed it. You know, I like to say a lot that the only reason I'm here is that there are so many people who love me more than I love myself for so long that help me above the water that kept me from going under until I could stand on my own and love myself and then love other people in the way that I could. Right? Because again, everyone is on a journey. You know, you know, 20 years ago, and like I can say 20, I'm older than I look some people, right? 20 years ago, I was a vastly trashier version of myself. Right? And this version of myself, like, you know, went back to Chicago and there were folks who were just like you just look completely different. They're like, it's just different. Right? And the difference is is always in harmony. Right? My my song is my song. Right? Everyone thinks things are like a to z or people think that things are like have to always be in personal person, perfect alignment. That's not actually how things work. Right? It's always kind of like notes. Right? The greatest note actually, though again, I'm a I'm a corn ball and I'm also a nerd. So like we were watching Dr. Who and the most recent season, they had to find the perfect note to get rid of the bad guy. Right? They had to find it. And it was actually the Beatles who had to who had to find it. And so to me, right? That's what this is. Like I'm finding my own music. My sheet music is finally coming together. And I'm gonna tell you, I can't not hold a note to save my life. But now with this AI, I guess, you know, it's it getting to my brain because this music is very, very nice now. Yeah. And I really love it. And so you know, that's that's me basically. Oh my gosh. Be I heard so much in that. I'm digested. So give me a second. But I heard a lot of first you started off with I am becoming that that already takes my thoughts to a whole other level of just I am becoming, but you're always in the state of becoming. And I admired that so much about what you shared on your journey because it was almost like you dream maker. You said that, but I also hear change maker like you see, you know, a problem or see something that needs to be solved. And not only do you just say it, you find ways to do it. And if you're not finding the way to do it or to be a part of that solution, you're going to connect the person that needs to be there. And I admire that so well considering one you came from Mississippi like your whole journey from where you started all the way up to now and continue to be that. And then you did point out a say that, you know, they wanted to get the information, but not give you the title, even though you already exuded that in every aspect. And I hear a lot of the resilience in that, the willingness to continue to stand up regardless of all things. And that is such. Wow. It confirms why creatives and entrepreneurs and innovators are here to fill the gap to fill the void. And I feel like you've been doing that in your pursuit in everything that you've committed your time to. And that is, I mean, profound. And I admire that. So I have to say, do you feel like you mentioned about your mom? Do you feel like that was always poured into you from your mom to be that? And it's so expound a little bit on that. Yeah. So what I will say is that like with like most kids who have too much, I kind of took it for granted, right? So even though we were poor in money, we were like so wealthy and love. And so I think that there's a lot of like comfort in that, right? Because I always say that I got way more ambitious after she passed because I was like really mad about it, right? Okay. So I was like, this seems like very, very dumb. Because then after I started doing research, like there's very, there's a very specific rule around how you can compare someone's death in one state versus another state, right? So like if you die in Tennessee, like my mom died in Tennessee, I can't compare her care to California and say she should have gotten care at like in California. I have to find a comparable metro area. Right? This says that they have the similar outcomes and find a doctor there who would say that her care wasn't great. And I explain that because imagine in what's supposed to be the best country in the world, yeah, you know, you have to say, well, because she died in Tennessee, like she's not probably worth that much. What? Like that's literally what they will say in a case, right? Because they're like, well, it's not that crazy that she died of it because in Tennessee, she's supposed to get worse care. Right? You know, you know, if you're in Chicago, right? Versus DC, they'll say, well, Chicago's supposed to have better care than DC. Look at DC. Right? Oh my God. You see what I'm saying? And if you're in California, obviously, you're supposed to have the best care. Well, California, like parts of Massachusetts, parts of New York, best care in the whole country, right? That's the only places where it truly is unacceptable to have many outcomes. Right? And so when you think about that, it starts to, you know, understand the difference between life and death is simply where you would. And the level of acumen of your provider. Uh-huh. Right? Oh my God. And so, you know, how can you feel anything except for absolute incomplete anger? Right? Because like if, if, again, you know, when I, you know, had my baby, I went to preeclampsia and then he clamps you like my blood pressure went through the roof and I probably would have died in virtually every other state except for California. Right? And so one of the reasons we don't live because like one of the, the number one questions everyone's like, oh my gosh, you love middle America. Why don't you live in it? I was like, because the healthcare system's not good enough, right? And that's why I invest there. That's why I spend time there. Right? Because I would like it to be comparable to California. But when you want to live, you end up with these very interesting decisions, right? Because you want to make sure your outcome is great. So yes, would it always in me to try to figure out how to be great? Yes. But was it always in me to help people figure out how to navigate these systems? And then well, now first navigate the system, right? Because as soon as people start to navigate a lot of these systems, they start to realize how assinine it is. Yeah. Right? So for instance, let's say you're on an HMO. So an HMO is one where everything has to be pre-approved. Right? Yeah. Right? Like, like, so let's say like, you know, you went to your, so I have a spinal issue. You went to your spine doctor. Your spine doctor goes, I think your spine is still in it. Right? I would like you to go get an MRI. You have to wait for the MRI to be approved. Right. So again, this person could tell you, so unless that person can specifically say like, hey, now go to the emergency room right now, I think it's going to rupture like whatever you have to wait for that MRI and think about spinal issues, right? You would have it like a very basic, not crazy thing happen, right? And as a result, right, your whole spine could be completely jet, right? Right? Because you just had to wait, because like, for instance, and the reason I say this, I don't have this problem. So I'm I'm I just my routine maintenance spinal stuff. And so I recently had to get it. I'm right. The wait time was three and a half weeks. Right? So, now I didn't if you had an emergency issue. Right. And so I say that because a lot of people, you know, they call it Obamacare, but the American Care Act was supposed to help P8 discontinued care lately, right? It was supposed to help to ensure that people like my mother, if for some reason, they were in a position where they didn't have healthcare, they could still not only get reasonable healthcare, but there's a responsibility of the organizations that that were working with them to follow up to ensure that their care was still going well. Right? Yeah. And so these are the types of things. And again, she passed in 2012. So this is before that, you know, there was also provisions about, you know, requiring people to update systems to be more digital systems to make healthcare more easy to access. Right? So they only talk about the cost of it. But the reality is is that it should be easy to access healthcare. It should be easy to buy healthcare. All this stuff should be ridiculously easy because we all know that we're going to need. Yeah. It does not matter of who you are. It does not matter what your circumstances are. At some point, you're going to need the healthcare system. And right now, the reason we go into debt and our lives are fundamentally changed when something negative happens to us whole wise is because our healthcare system has been treated like a business like everything else. And so like, you know, if you actually like so, I'm on the board, like I said, of PowerPron Health, you know, and one of the first things that we do as a board each year is look at like the healthcare. Like so we look both at healthcare for our teams. And we also look at pricing and things like that for our services. So for instance, like, you know, a healthcare provider will say that a service is like $3,500 for something like that. And then if you have insurance, it'll say, well, the insurance rate is 208, right? So they don't have to pay 280. They're giving them a $30, $100 discount. But if you go in without insurance, they can't get rid of that $3,500. So they just put the $3,500 there. Even though essentially you could assume it's only worth 280. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And so this is the type of stuff that I figured out after my mother. I figured out that this is why we need regulation in certain industries. Like I was one of those people who, you know, I've gone to business school, I literally invest in something that I want to make gains with money on it. I want to pay as little taxes possible. That's right. But there is a reality that there is a value in certain things being regulated. It should not be feasible for a plastic surgeon. So let's think about like the super expensive plastic surgery. So these same people who get paid millions to do elective surgeries like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Imagine if we required them as a part of their sub today's, because like almost everyone, like whether you've had a fellowship like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you've been subsidized in some way by either a city, a state, a government, blah, blah, blah. Imagine if we required them to do like 10% of their work for, you know, people who truly need it. Right. And the reason I say that is, is like a person with a cleft lift or, you know, a person who's had like a horrible disfiguring something because the other thing that I realized and the thing that really made me mad after my mother is that I understood how important human potential is. Yeah. Everyone thinks of like, oh man, that person was young, right? Like that's so terrible. But the reality is is we are going to live longer than we've ever lived, like just as a species, right? So we actually don't know when people are going to hit like that maximum, you know, potential, that maximum impact, like Willie on that street, like if I had died that night, none of this would have been built, right? So Willie's actual impact was, you know, cataclysmic, you know, like it could have, it literally is a world-ganging impact for some people, right? Because of the things I've done and the things I've built, my son wouldn't be here, I would never have gotten married, right? None of that would have happened, right? And so that's something that I'm super interested in exploring now, right? Because my mother had a standing room only funeral. And she didn't have social media and all that stuff, right? She didn't have a platform. She was just a person who met people through her daily routine and had impact. It's one of the reasons that actually one of the things I do, like obviously I do like social media and I do all that, but every single day, when I have interactions with people, you usually find me seeing something nice or saying something kind or doing something nice, not because I want to be recognized for it, but because I started to understand, like it is that way forward, I don't know, you know, like the butterfly effects, where like that one thing, where that woman didn't, you know, get, you know, like all tangled up, opened in a door, so she didn't have a bad attitude. And since we were in a doctor's office, maybe since she has a better attitude, she diagnoses someone better. I don't know, but that's the way I think now, right? I think about the fact that regardless of whether they're at my funeral or they're not in my funeral, whether they know that this was possibly one of the reasons they had a better day than they did, the at least that I'm trying to create that proximate effect because I want to see how we can get back to the people who happen to ignore people like my mother, right? And our kindness, our gentleness, you know, our directness in asking them and challenging them on why they speak distinctly about certain people of why they distinctly talk about themselves often, right? Because a lot of times, as we kind of help them heal themselves, they become better versus a versions of themselves. And then again, like I said, hopefully they see older black women like my mother, although my mom died at 48, right? And one of the things I think is crazy about that is that I used to think 48 was very old. And like, you know, now like, you know, like Gabrielle Unway, Tarraji P. Hintz, and they're all like 50 and I was like, right, yeah, my mom was so young, right? She had so much, you know, in front of her, right? And so, again, once you start thinking about that, like it just becomes easier to just think that step back and say, what should I do today? Probably something nice for someone. Oh my gosh. Here, you know, be wow, like the be kind and paying it forward. What I'm getting from that, you never know what people are going through. You never know what just happened. You never know what happened a week before you never know what people are dealing with, you know? So you making that conscious decision choice to always be kind and to pay it for it. It's almost as if like realizing all of these things is connected in some type of way. And you never know who you may meet along the journey of the time that you meet them. And the time that they may come back around in another way for whatever. And if you was not kind for that person at that time, how do you know how they respond to you at the time that you may have needed them in that moment? And it made me think about the story about Willie and how you treated him and how he was able to show up for you in that moment. So butterfly effect, all is connected, play your role, do your part, things happen along the way to show you why you need to do your part, but you also learn to see, oh, this is what's missing in that. Okay. If I see that that's what's missing, what can I do myself to do to be a part of that change? And that is so freaking brilliant and amazing that you live by that you get that. And even saying, you know, where you were then and where you are now the growth in that and being able to be that example so people can do it. And I believe that's part of what we're here to do to be all of us to be kind to be loved, you know, and to pay it forward because if you don't know how forward it's going to be, you know what I mean? Like, and that's so good. I love that. Go ahead. Well, and I think something that I really want people to understand, like we are mammals, right? Mammals are not set up to live solo. Like we're just not. Like we supposed to be in a crib together, make sure we are all warm. Like we're supposed to hunt and gather together, right? Like obviously if someone breaks the rules, we kick them out. Like that's what gel is for it, right? Like that's not against gel, but that's like that's the modern version. Yeah, modern version is jail, basically. Yeah. But generally speaking, we are supposed to collaborate to make the best use of our resources, right? And so as you start to think about that, that's why it becomes annoying that so many people have such a selfish like independent, I must be right, lines. Because the only thing that is limited is our ability to like cap our effect here. Although I do so and sometimes I do agree with the billionaires. I do think we should invest some time in figuring out how to like hang out on other planets. I don't think that should be our primary focus, but it seems like a valuable, you know, plan B. Yeah. But it is this idea that like we should be really thoroughly thinking about how can we have the best like collaborative, like, you know, net effect together. Yeah. Yeah. And just like, you know, I was talking to someone talking to me, I'm from Mississippi. So a lot of people I know have guns. And so they were like, you know, the one thing I like about, you know, this VP was is that he likes to hunt to and I was like, I don't think most people want to take most people's guns away. We just think scary people shouldn't have. Right. And so I love when we start to get to those types of conversations. Yeah. Because it's like, well, how do we define a scary person? And it turns out we all think scary people are the same. Right. Like, I don't care if you're conservative or if you're level anyone says like they first thing they say is people who are extreme. I don't like. And it's always on both sides are like, you just don't mess with extreme people because extreme people don't always think about. And I was like, and if you can agree on that, imagine how much else we can agree on if we just keep the conversation going. Right. And I feel like there's a lot of conversation and a lot of things that can be different from just having a conversation and asking the questions and educating each other on it. You know, and maybe if that was, you know, always at the forefront of everyone, then it could be less judgment. It could be less like, I'm not sure what to do. Like, we won't have that. It's great that you, you know, look at it like that to have that conversation. Like if it's anybody out here listening to this, like, what are you doing with your time? How are you showing up, you know, each second. And I feel like, be is dropping this knowledge. Go ahead. Was it going to say something? Well, and I said, like, so I said, I became famous for a while. And the thing that was crazy to me, because like my wife would be like, you, you don't want to know what they're saying about you. I was like, that is true. And also, it wouldn't even occur to me to go look for it really. Like some of it came because like they'll email me like whatever. And if you were like, well, why didn't you go looking at it? I was like, I don't go look for negative stuff. Like I like true prime stuff. I don't know why. Like it's like my one true like, like, I can get away with that. You see. So I did it's partially. I think it's partially because I just want to know what they do so that when, if it ever comes up, like the other day, someone was like, I want the podcast. It's like if there's ever a band next to you that has a sliding door next to the driver's side, like automatically do not get it. Like go find someone and it never hurts me. I was like, but that makes so much sense. Like why would a sliding. Mm-hmm. And it's like expensive windows. So you can't see. And I was like, they just saved my life probably. I don't even know. But now I'm telling a whole podcast about it now. So they probably save all those people's lives. Like wait a minute. I think it makes sense. Right. And then also and most of those bands are only like grandfathered in. So they're not even necessarily legal on many states. So that's a whole other thing. So like they have to go get that band to go be free. So yeah, like that's an extra. But. Oh my gosh. So. But you know, like I'm just like a super, you know, chill person. And you know, for me, it's just like actually I lost my train of thought because like now I can only think about that podcast. It was like the weirdest podcast. Like I literally, I'm still on the band. So you good. Wait a minute. I cast called psychopedia. I did not expect to like it. Like, it's like the two people look like wrestlers. Like they look like they should be like WWE people, but they're not neither one of them is like both of them are like legitimate people who have live for Mary. Their family seem to be like reasonably normal, right? So I'm like pretty happy for them. But the podcast is legit because she's a legal investigator. So she does all the legal investigator. He also does say like investigation into the disease as these people have like wherever. So one that I was just thinking of with the high heels. It's actually called that like the high heel fill it. And so I was just like, wow, no, that that plan to listen to that one this morning. And I was just like, this is why we need to love our babies like honestly. So that's what. So you said like the things that last few things that I would like to leave out on one love your children. If you cannot love your children, give up your children like straight up like that podcast has taught me that like so many of the terrible things that people have done is simply because they were not cared for. They were not loved. Now, I'm not even talking about necessarily they got they behind speed or anything like that. I'm literally just saying that no one ever cared about right in the lack of care because again human their mammals. Right into the lack of care and all that stuff is like a very clear business podcast it turns people into terrible terrible humans right they cannot they cannot. They can't. They conflate things that they shouldn't go together and the reason I bring that up is that so when I think about the Welsh ones in the nonprofit obviously we're not thinking about that extreme level of personality. But like you know hope and health and love and all that stuff is such a huge part of what we do right you know on the southern earth. I really wanted to bring food in. I wanted to create experiences where people feel like that they're getting. Beated the way that they should be treated right like I'm very high maintenance is one of the first things that's almost people like I will not go like I don't have a problem like people think I don't like to go to a diaphrough. I love a diaphrough that has great whiskey you know in a selection and has the whiskey appropriately pride based on a diaphrough I'm like you know y'all real people like we can hang out we can chill like we could probably keep you know I'm saying yeah cool with that and I also love me like a high maintenance mixology like one of my goals to go to like every James beard winning bar program in the country. I got out to my friend Rinaldo riddle nobody's darling into Prague Rinaldo is one of my oldest friends in fact I thought you hated me at first but turned out she just has wrestling bitch face. But one of my favorite experiences in life is that when she she had been thinking about starting a place and so whenever she would want to go to cocktail spots in Chicago she would call me up so I was just like her date. And so when she opened up her spot and it was during coven I felt like it come over she was like yeah I have my good part barge in there because I know like if you like this like is what and I have that drink and I said yes yes I say you did this and then and now whenever I do events in Chicago I always do it there I was like it's the only place that meets my like true standards consistently about cocktails because I care a lot if you make a cocktail make it like you want to like they do care about people. And if you don't know how to make a cocktail at least have a good you know alcohol selection so people can enjoy themselves right. So anyway food drink all this stuff is great and then the other part about is this curating these conversations right all I care about is creating psychological safety right and so we curate the rooms to curate the experiences to create the psychological safety one of the one that Chicago a bunch of the people in the room I was just like I don't understand how y'all have never met. And it turns out that this is just that reminder that even when we are part of similar communities like we get into our own heads we have a tendency not to participate in the ways that we look our best right and so what I loved about that is that that became like a new thing for me like we always constantly think about how do we help people see each other and also see their own flaws right because they often aren't understanding that the flaw is just that they don't think that they're great right. Right right like I don't know many people who don't do all some stuff every day it may not be like you know newsworthy right but also journalism is paid for now right so it's newsworthy to your community it's newsworthy to your cousin you know it's newsworthy to your heart right and so if people invest more time and energy doing that that would be great so if I had to say you like come you know check out the wealth salons you know the application is open so we're starting out with three verticals the black wealth salon. The women's wealth salons and the queer wealth salons we will continue to expand the umbrella over time as we gain more expertise so I'm a fundamental believer that we have to have people who represent the communities do not only you know lead initiatives there but to help us that and continue to hypothesize and experiment on how we do things because there's going to be some things that are going to work across communities. There are other things that don't and so once we start to figure that out my hope is also that we'll be able to create more and more collateral lesson software so that we can give away a lot of that stuff for free and if we do charge it will not be 599 like these cricket like kids apps that are bogus they are so boring my kid destroys them and like a week and then I got to find something else to entertain this kids I'm going to charge like 99 cents for something that will entertain them for a month because it's a lot of work to entertain these more kids it's like I'm just like you need. Like I was kind of wanted to dumb when I was like if you could play sport but not football like you know like baseball or basketball actually no soccer. The soccer is the big dollar sport now because like he could be famous everywhere but now he's probably just going to be a nerd and so now I got to figure out how to be smart than him like young children style for the rest of my life which is a lot because I told you they also like my brain like they literally start messing up your brain and then he's still supposed to entertain them for a month. They're still supposed to entertain them for like the next year. It's a mess. No, no, it's so good and people I did is listening. I really think you're going to have to take the moment to listen to this and digest all of these different things that be a sandwich. right now because there's something that you say that I really want you to say again about everybody's great but what? Oh, everybody. So the usually the usual issue is the usual plot is that people don't realize that everybody is great. Like they are great. Can't enough themselves, right? And within their community, they're great. Within their heart, they're great. Like as all that matters is like stuff that makes you heart happy, right? You know, it doesn't really matter about, you know, whether you got the gold medal or the silver medal, right? Although no allows Mike, you know, disagree. Although, if you really did have COVID coming in bronze though, I mean, that was not much of life because it would be true for without COVID with his legs. I probably still to came in last because like, you know, my, my, like, level of determination I'm not going to do all that. But you know, if you need to dream to be made, I can help with that. Right, right. You know, you're laying, you know what laying you in, you know what you went and he knows where he's at too. I love it. This was so good to be like, be thank you so much. Everybody out here, I hope that this water your spirit, I do believe we're going to have to do another extension of just one specific topic on just like wealth and what you just said. Because I'm still over here like, I don't, what? I got to go back and listen myself even more times. I feel this out because there's so much more power in that. And I just am honored, honored and thankful to learn from you. You've said some things and I'm like, hey, I don't even know that even about healthcare that I'm just like, whoa, so anybody out here is listening. You know, I hope this really watered your spirit and just educated you because it did the same thing for me. But be, I just appreciate you so much for coming to just be a part of this conversation. And I know we're going to have more. Is there any last things that you want to say to anybody that's listening to help them, you know, on their journey? Any words? Well, first and foremost, I share very lovely and happy memes across the internet. Like if you want to laugh or look at babies, because like that's usually what I share, right? People are like, I mean, I literally, I never like that thing. So then Instagram and TikTok just curate. And also I get a lot of lesbian stuff too. So that's like my whole feed. But you can follow me on B Pagels Minor if you want those types of things. If you want to learn more about venture capital, founders, corporations, how that stuff works, you can go to divergent ventures as DVRG and see ventures to divergent without the vowels across the internet. And if you want to start looking about this like nonprofit side, and you want to start thinking about like the financial things that you should have, how you actually build well, how you maintain well, you can go to the Wilson ones. And the Wilson ones is just the Welfelons everywhere. Those G A E W E A L T H S A L O and again, we're taking applications for founders, investors, and also the Welfelon members across all the world. Love it. Y'all got it. Go check it out because I already know there's some things I need to check out. So thank y'all for listening. This is another episode of the Niki's and podcast. Love you guys. Peace. So get ready to believe in yourself, overcome fear, and practice gratitude along your path way to purpose because you got work to do. Think about that. Mogul!