B. Pagels-Minor

We have our guests with us be Pagels minor. Please by all means let our people know What brings you to the conversation today? Well first off to say I actually just got a shipment of notification that my new European fire is on its way So this is like our third one, right? Like that's how serious it is out here I'm up here like googling like how can my air be pure like this is like the little things that makes it excited But I think that just like from a general point. I'm here because of community before we actually started recording I shared the fact that you know It's actually happenstance actually I shouldn't say happenstance right because nothing that we do is really by chance Right usually by us ordering our steps and getting to the place that we're supposed to be So actually I when I first moved out here to California I joined a group called such a circle like women in tech and Lexi who was on the podcast You know just like yesterday She and I met because someone said you know, you have to be like see Lexi is someone who will change her life And to be truthful she has and also she's like literally the loveliest like if you and also I don't really like hugs For her hugs give like a hold at a level to hugs and then I was just like it's actually like so I'm like you know what I'm ready just give me all of that in one place But she actually she connected me to someone named Dominic Collins and dummy Collins connected me to someone named say and Say actually is the person who connected me with this podcast and said you know be like I really think you should be here So I'm here because of community and the fact that you know It's a really great opportunity to kind of share some of my thoughts and and also kind of promote those other folks You stand behind me and I stand on their shoulders That's what's up the the world is small and it is grand at the same time and you know I'm glad as you're here with us We're definitely going dig deep and see what's up. What's up? But um, you know more importantly Given that you you've worked with these people or at least have them in your network right within your social circles Kind of what is what is your kind of overall goal? What is it that you're trying to accomplish for yourself and having worked with these other people? I I don't want to make the assumption But I have a feeling that you also are doing work for others and supporting others So what is those two to ends look like for yourself and then for the people? Yeah, you know, I think for me it is it's about lifting up other people you know I always tell folks that like my super power is Meeting people understanding deeply what can make them successful and then helping super charge that ability Right, and I think that actually comes from you know, so I actually you know tell folks all the time So this this pandemic and this economic downturn reminds me a little bit of 2008 and so I graduated in 2008 and When I graduated from college, you know I started off I had this consulting degree. I had this consulting job I was gonna pay more money than anyone my family ever had and then the job went away and I was a barista at Tvonna And I remember reaching out to people that I thought were really cool who were super you know well respected and saying I'm the Struggling kid who just wants a job right and I would love to talk to you and so many of those people ignored me right Like I never got responses back and many people just didn't invest in me and so for me personally like I spent a lot of my time Just you know putting myself out there and telling people like I'm here for you like I'm here for you to run ideas Off of if you have questions about how to navigate the corporate, you know works face how to navigate tech How to just navigate life right like you know, I love talking about that I love participating in that and I love helping people kind of like open themselves up You know one of the things that I think is like very difficult for both Just generally for minorities as well as women is that we have this assumption that we may not be good enough But the reality is is that like to be truthful like we we speak two languages just coming out of the womb right because we have to speak the language of Whatever our culture is but we also have to speak the language of the dominant culture which are white folks and we have to You know and so because of that we are naturally in tune and much more Empathetic and have the ability to be more successful in most workplaces than just about anyone and all the the only thing that we really need is That encouragement to prove That we that we can't do that and so that's really what I do and so I do a lot of work You know speaking period podcast writing things One-on-one mentorship with those young people also some not so young people because I mean everybody needs you know advice And it's really just that that's the work of my life and you know when I when it's all said and done I hope That people will say that be just did a lot to Completely change and create this army of a magnificent humans who helped change the world Super important super powerful and super thankful for you being here with us today um You know, it's uh You know it's incredible to hear all that and to know that you know At least at the very least in the smallest parts of the world we can Be a part of the conversation and be able to learn from you like you know you you mentioned some names that have been pivotal In my own life and development and have been critical and how I look at things and how I show up in the workplace So to hear you mentioned say mention Lexi to to speak to All these different things and then yourself join us here today is like thank you so much. Thank you for your time You know they don't You you hit it on the head in terms of saying speaking to languages right like The level of empathy because of being at a disadvantage right being people of color being black being whatever you want to call it African-American the the African diaspora For me, I know this might rev some people the wrong way, but being American descendants of slaves and what that culture looks like right like we are Americans and we are descendants of slaves and we have We have had to take what you would whatever little you've given us and we've created things that are supremely valuable to society to the world and to each other right like We are profound people and it's seen when you look at a movie like black panther right that is That is you know, I was having a conversation with somebody and they were Being hyper critical about the movie and they were like how how can so many people identify with T'Challa When he's from southeast Africa and I'm like hold on hold on hold on Back it up. He was like I could see if he was from west Africa. It'd be a different story. I'm like hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on I'm like Most of us being American descendants of slaves. We don't have a national country of origin that we can identify In this fictitious country that was created within America Which was to give us some sense of like attachment or belonging has become our unofficial homeland right and now we see it manifested On the screen supported through a black lens Especially a dude from the Bay Area right google a shout out to him And it's through the scope of trying to reconcile all these different threads of our own personal identities Being played out on one of the biggest stages possible That's the reason why T'Challa is so important right that's the reason why it's so important for us To know the power in ourselves into uplift and hold each other like As like applaud worthy so that brings me to saying this like before we continue I just want to give you All the awards praise love admiration that you deserve because I know when you work when you walk into work They're not they're not going to give you a plaque for saying you made it this far right then no one's going to say You are here right because I know for me when I go into work and I look around and I don't see my friends or people that reflect my community It's isolating at at times and you need to like you know have those moments where you can find a Lexi to embrace to say oh We're we're in this together. We're in this struggle. We're in this whether we no matter how far we come Our ability to connect and powers and enriches our lives and gives us that nutritional feed But more importantly people who aren't in those conversations or don't get to be a part of those circles We want to give you that love and support to know that even where we are at It's an honor to know that you're there doing what you got to do to show up and be yourself that you're able to see within yourself That yes from the very beginning the duality of our identities and how we have to operate in this world Is now making us important and showing our worth beyond just the scope of a role in a title because we're fulfilling things Most times that not everyone is able to do right and a lot of those people right who might be the gay keepers don't look like us But when they see oh They're actually incredible what they do You know what maybe we should get behind them right so yeah again Thank you, but um And be I just want to say thank you and give you praise for paying homage for those that came before you because that shows your strength And your dignity as a black woman and I know about cold switching or code meshing or whatever you want to call it And some people may call it out and say oh, what's it? You know what you're are you trying to assimilate? Are you trying to Are you trying to remove yourself from or from a certain cultural people group and and assimilate to a different kind and then you know what I say is many people you can talk to and and as many ways you can that's that's boss so So if you have to, if you know, you're going to communicate the most effectively talking one way with this group of people and then go over there and still share your same heart, which is what you're doing, all praise. That's nothing but good. But I do want to give a shout out to the late and great Chadwick Boseman because he was a real life superhero and I actually had a chance to meet him in person. And the man was just filled with so much peace despite what may have been going on within him physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically, here he is leading just this fictitious world, but no, really a fictitious country, Wakanda on the screen, but he was such a leader just as a person to be in his presence was an honor. And I just want to wrap up and say it's also an honor to be co-hosting here with you guys as well. It's kicking off to be a great episode. I hope all of our listeners are really tuning in because it's about to get to you. Exactly, exactly. So the where do you come from? Where did you get your root start? Like where part of the world are we talking about? Yeah. Well actually, so it's so funny that you say that right? Actually, I just, well, and so I want to take a step back because obviously there's like the reality of what I've been since I've been here, right? But there's also this idea of like where have we been. So when we talk about Wakanda and why people are so like inspired by it, it's because we all, most of us people who are the citizens of enslaved people, we don't know the full story. Like I can tell you, for instance, my dad's out of the family, there's a cemetery down in Mississippi where I'm from that we can, I can show you the various ancestors. And you know, that's the one who was the first one to be freed from slavery, right? But I can't tell you where we were before then, right? And actually, I just took this African ancestry, like ancestry test. And so now I know from my mom's other family, I'm from Cameroon. And so I'm waiting for my dad to do his test because I want to see where he's from too. And it's actually really great because like I didn't even know anything about Cameroon, but I was like, so I'm a follow camera, I'm a soccer camera. I was like, I'm aware all the colors, like people are not going to be able to deal with me. Because like I'm like, I'm at least partially Cameroon is. So like, you know, this is who I am now. But I was born in Mississippi. So very small time in Mississippi, not that far from Memphis, Tennessee. I actually lived in Chicago for a couple of years before we settled back down into Memphis. And I went to, I kind of got my, you know, once I was in school and things like that, I went to school in Memphis, Tennessee. And so like I'm saying very specifically, I'm super Southern, right? Because there is like, there's a big, big difference between being a Southern black person and like a black person for someone else, right? Like there's like, there's just like very much like this dynamic of like the way that we kind of hold ourselves and how we kind of act. And how we sell folks like, you know, everyone is my friend until you're not. And when you're not, you know, like there's no confusion about what your status is in my life. But like I am from the traditional, actually what's one of the most fascinating things about my life is that I remember when I was a child, so like two, three, four, being at my grandma's house, which was like a shack. It was literally a shack and it was a shack that my great grandfather had built. And so it started off as like a one room shack and they just kept putting different rooms on it. And like it was like so interesting because you didn't want to be in certain rooms because there was too much of a, like there was too much of a draft. It would be too cold, right? And so then when I was in high school, my family put us together all of this money and they built my grandma like a legit house, right? And so that's like that's literally like that's to me is like kind of the, when I think about my journey, you know, especially working a tech and doing the types of work I do. And the scene amounts of money I get paid now compared to like what my, like what I even considered back then, it's just like, whoa, like I'm from a family that in Mississippi that thought a shack was like the best place in the world. I mean, come on. A lot of like people, right? We, we, me and Alex go back and forth about this a lot of times, but we got, we have ties, our family comes from the south, right? There's a lot of people, I mean, you know, especially us being on the west coast migrated from the southern states to come out here for more opportunities, right? Or, you know, being able to, to try and lay claim to something that, you know, is kind of fertile, right? And so to hear that you come from the south and that you've been able to kind of be in the Midwest and to see different aspects of the south and that culture, like I know firsthand, it is a difference. It is, it is, it is, it is almost like a whole other country, if you will, because of certain dynamics that are at play and the history and lineage, right? And being able to go back and say I can go and see where, you know, all this is the first freed person in my family, right? Like, most people, they'd be like watching PBS and be like living by carousel to Chris Rock when he goes and does his test and be like, oh, but there's a slave in the family. And it's like, you know, most times, kids don't even realize that the generation's like, I know for my family, it was like, there's my grandma, there's my great grandma, and then there's her, her mom, her, you know, she was a slave, right? And then I look back and I'm like, my grandma picked cotton and Texas like my grandma, right? We don't think about how close these certain elements to life are to us. But to hear like, yeah, you got to see firsthand, like you don't want to be in this room in this shack that is grandma's house, right? Because it's a draft, but then to have the ability to say, okay, now we're at a place where we can give her something that, you know, this is what you, this is what we want to give to you, right? And we're going to give you this and we're able to, we're capable to, that's powerful in itself. So with that, like you come with that, what made you get in a tech and then within that, like what do you do specifically within the realm of tech? Yeah, so actually, you know, I'm 100 in 2008. So 2008 was the last great economic downturn. And I went to, you know, North flush turn. And there's like a, there's like a few different careers that you normally take. Like so you end up going to law school or medical school or you go to become a consultant and go get a business degree. And so I took the, go be a consultant and take the business degree. But I honestly, I was at my job for three months and then they lost, you know, like a lot of their contracts and they're like, peace. Like, you know, we don't have a space for you. And so I actually started doing a lot of like really random work. My favorite job was honestly being a barista, Tvana because like, honestly, the tea was hidden. Like that tea was so delicious. Like I'm just going to put that out there. But I needed to know that. I needed to know because they don't get the love. So I needed to know they pop, they just pop up and then you know somebody that worked there or don't. And then like, how do I navigate? Do I go get T off out of safe off the safeway shelf or do I just get up Tvana? I needed, I need that real information. I need the real stuff. I really got a Tvana, like it's Starbucks. The Starbucks mixes Tvana like drinks. It's really good. Like I fully approve of them. So one thing that, but what was really great about that is that I started doing like various like job fairs and stuff like that. And so I actually became a store manager at Target. And so one, this is a little complicated story, but it makes sense when it all comes together. But so I became a store manager at Target, which interestingly enough, I still had to make tea because there was a Starbucks in the Target. And so I managed to part of the store that included the Starbucks. I had to learn how to make coffee and tea. So like I stepped up my skill level. But it was actually through that job that I realized I absolutely freaking hate it doing that work. And Target actually had a really great program where they would pay for your grad school. So they would pay 4% of it. And so because of that, I ended up going to grad school and I got, I did a dual program so I managed to read information systems and MBA. And through that program, I actually got introduced to the CEO of a startup in Chicago called Sherry Cell. And I became like an entry level tech support person. Right. And so that job is actually the job that introduced me to product management. And so I actually work as a product manager. So product managers, I think the simplest way to think about a product manager is any device you have. So let's say an iPhone. There's someone who thinks about whether there should be icons or not, whether there should be touch ID or a face ID. And so product managers are the people who are behind those decisions. They do a lot of analysis whether it's user experience surveys. They talk to customers and they make those decisions. So that's what my actual work is. And so I've been a product manager for about eight years now. Okay. That's what I said. So is it safe to say where you work? So I can't really work it. But yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. But before that, like, you know, I worked at Apple, I worked at Spell social, I've worked at a lot of different tech companies. I will say that this is the first time I really, really like where I work. So that's why I'm very comfortable in saying it. In fact, we're recruiting for a lot of roles right now. So if you're looking, feel free to take a look. I guess I need to start looking. June came back right on time. She heard the opportunity. And then what she, well, you see where she at now, Sip and your T. So to me, you know, it's important like, you know, that people want to enjoy where they are, right? Because everyone is dealing with, you know, different levels of kind of, I call 2020 the Great Awake. right? Like we are coming to terms with like how to how to provoke and push the culture forward in all these different spaces because we're we're whole people right? Like yeah I wear a mask because I realize I'm in a world where it's easy to commodify what I do right? I make music I enjoy making music but I create the separation and boundary because I want to be more part of a community I don't want to deal with fame right? So when the mask is on the mask is for sale when the mask is off I'm not for sale right? And so there's that that relationship that we have where it's like you know tech and tech companies a lot of times our scene is like the evil overlords of like you're coming in to take away but in reality you know when you look deeper at it right we're going through a transformation of industry right? Like the biggest kind of supplier of movies doesn't have copies physical media like it's it's an online service right? Just like one of the biggest kind of I want to say housing opportunists or opportunities that you can get they don't own property Airbnb doesn't own property they they provide a service that gives you access to housing right? Same goes for Uber and Liv this is a and this is the industrial revolution we're witnessing right? It's not about the physical it's about how do we create these services and deliver on a on a grand scale on a bigger scale right? Now when you say it like that it doesn't sound like these demonic entities have come to take over and destroy the industry well let's be fair we always go through an evolution we go through moving into the new design of what will be and then we we part ways with the old it's hard to transition is hard to change but it's important to know that you love what you do and that there are opportunities for people to be able to be a part of it right? Because it's not it's not going away like you know I'm I'm one of the few people in a world who still holds on a physical media right? Like that is not the norm right? What's the norm is I could look at a whole season of TV on my phone you could do what? I I remember I know Kia I remember a two way was the most incredible technology I knew about like now we don't we could make whole movies off the phone and then redistribute them back onto the phone for other people to use on their phones. Well actually the bigger point is remember you and you had to watch the show the night that it came on or else you never came on again? What if it was like what if it was a show that only had like one or two seasons then it's never going into syndication so you never going to catch a rerun like it was like you had to be there or like you know like I'm a kid I there's a show called Botsmaster tell me who what Botsmaster like that ain't that ain't part of the lexicon of popular television power rangers and freaking like say the move for that matter let me aspire five firefly half you seasons and that's it but like is like think about like the access right like if you didn't see it didn't happen it wasn't real like you missed out you wasn't you didn't watch it on Wednesday then you ain't never going to know ever your life you forever missed out but now like you know at least Netflix will warn you hey this will be gone soon you better get it in while you can because you know we about to move on it's like oh I know what I got to do right I can at my own leisure within this time frame I can watch this show so you know it's the evolution of time right we all we all got our own little edo secreties that we hold on to and maybe in a little geeky kid Botsmaster was my jam and well I don't even think I've ever watched the full season of it but that's the point if I didn't get to it in time I was out of luck but you know more question but you got a question how do you feel like you're just a little transition how do you feel like the skills that you implement in your professional and the skills that you implement in your community work how do they correlate like as a catalyst for people in the community and then as a project manager at work also clarified it's product manager actually product managers hate you call project managers it's like it's like like the ultimate offense it's the ultimate offense but yeah so the thing is product managers you own a product right and you optimize that product to be useful to any user so I if you start extrapolating that out like you know my product is this community that I think is underserved and I'm doing an analysis on what they need and then trying to build products you know whether that's again the concept that I create on my blog or um you know on my social media or the talks that I give to try to like you know optimize for that area right so for this is a lot of the talks that I'm doing right now are about how to kind of challenge in you know ask ask for a raise for instance because I've realized in the community I was like well you know so people are now comfortable to apply for these jobs but they're not comfortable to ask for what they're worth right so then you have to optimize for that next step and then once people are comfortable asking for what's their worth then maybe the next step will be something like how do we like make sure that they actually have um like that they they're getting the right skills or getting the right access to information to level up their skills against like senior management so it's kind of like it's a constant process so it's a product so I just treat it like a product that has continued to be optimizing and I do that by kind of listening to what people tell me okay that's what that's what that's like that's a nice way to show the transferable skills for those that don't know transferable skills the skills that you develop in one area that can transfer to another and I think it's important because we don't have at least in my time like I work and work for development right and so it's important for me because I've also worked within like kind of the the probation system the juvenile justice system and so the correlation is if right now they're you know in the Bay Area there's rampant you know theft right and so you know people will post these videos of young people running in Walgreens trying to snatch everything and run out and then the post will be like this while we can't have nothing they making us look bad and I'm like hold on understand the dynamics of what they're dealing with right they might not have access to basic needs or resources and they might lack the exposure experience or education to understand what is the importance of money and how that relates to life right because it's like that well they they have right they got air maxes on in Jordan and it's like hold on like they like they don't come with the innate need of Jordan's right those are things you develop by your community those are things that you develop based off of your relationships and then they become like signals or markers of your own self worth right but we don't want to look at it like that we just want to break it down that bells are $200 shoes you just ran install this qtips what is you doing but in reality it's like well I got to eat and I got to be able to feel good about myself as I continue to live on in this world and if these shoes make me feel good about myself and help me look just a little bit better why they catch me on this camera doing what I need to do to survive so be it right and it's not to say that I'm condoning it it's not to say that I'm allowing it I'm not endorsing behavior I understand it and I'm accepting of the reality because I've been able to be in the rooms with the families where it's multi-generational these are things that are instituted institution institutionalized into the family right these oh well if I don't commit a violent offense then I get a slap on the wrist and I get to go about my life right or yeah I'm a osamone but I grew up in a household where debt was something we moved away from and we shied away from having a conversation about so when I say transferable skills yes and the sarcastic most literate and most technical terms but it's important that we speak upon these things and make them the norm because these are attributes that speak to the duality and our abilities to show up in a workplace in a way that not everyone has access to because they don't they don't they don't grow up with the understanding and the fundamentals of like my grandfather made a shack for my grandmother right we didn't really have multi-generational wealth to go and have someone created for us we had to figure out how to do it ourselves and so now me showing up all these years later okay let me take these skills that I've developed in product management and now see how to serve my people in a different capacity but for me what was the call to action like what was that moment when you realized like you know what I need to like I need to show up for my people because I mean to sit to say you enjoy your job right you could easily just turn the screen off though the computer out the window be like I ain't got to deal with this I'm good but what made it so that it's like you know what it's not enough like what was that moment for you so I'm going to address that question but I also want to go back to this idea of like oh like it's not okay like you know you're going in and taking stuff or you're wearing these shoes first of all those shoes could have been 2997 and Marshall's first of all but they are Nike Air Max's I don't care like a sale as a sale so like I've never understood this idea of like you wear nice clothes like in fact I mean my family was dirt poor and I wore really nice clothes because we caught them all sell right so like I don't really understand that logic behind it and also like this idea of like you know there's like this idea of the scam right and in black folks I mean we were like you know we wrote that check on Wednesday and we were hoping you weren't going to cash until Friday because that's when the pay check it right so I just think that there's also this idea of like you know it's all about survival right and so the things that people do to survive like and I also think that your mind so when you're in survival mode the way that your mind operates completely different than when you are no longer in survival mode and so I give so much grace to people who are in that space because the ways that they would act is very vastly different the way that I would act now but I also was in that place before I just wanted to acknowledge that. In terms of why I feel such a need for this, is that I was literally dirt-proored. My family, I remember a story of one, the woman who went to jail, they put her in jail for years, and she couldn't vote because she put her kid into a school in a different district, and she used the fake address for it. That was literally my entire childhood. My mom would have friends who would use various addresses so I could go to those different schools. And my teachers knew, and so my teachers would say, we know that your phone isn't working, because our phone was always off, and they didn't know where we lived. And they would be like, "I can give you this note, because I know I can trust you to take it to your mom to make sure that she knows that you did something." Like, I didn't really do much wrong. I was really good at teaching, so I'm not gonna lie about that. But the couple of times I did do some wrong things. They're like, "We can give you this note because we know you're gonna give that to your mother." So I think that that was my mindset. And I remember my mom talking to me all the time, and she was just like, "Be." Like, you're gonna have a better opportunity. She's like, "You don't have to be anything fancy. You can be a plumber, you can do whatever." Like, I don't really care what you do, but you need to understand that there's a lot more opportunities out there for you. And she would be like, "Well, you need to go and go to the library and check out this book about scholarship, for instance, when I was applying to college." And it was because my mom said, "My mom didn't always know the answers, but she always knew that there had to be a solution." And so her mindset was just vastly different than most people in our community. And she imbued that in me. And so when I got old enough and I started looking at other people, I was just like, "Wait, you don't think like I think." And I realized I was like, "This is a unique trait." And if I could figure out how to like imbue that in other people, then this is an ability for us to create an army of amazing people, right? Because the number one thing is, is that it's not about any flashiness or wanting to be famous or anything like that. It's about wanting to have a society of people who are successful. Because if you have a society of people who are successful and successful to me, again, coming from my background is, you're built to pay, you could take a nice vacation, you could get the not-on-sell of my keys, right? Like that to me is what success really looks like, right? And so it's like, if we can create more folks like that, then we're gonna have less people who are causing harm in other places. And so it's really a harm reduction mechanism. Like when I think about the world, and I think about the bad things that happen in the world, I'm just like, "Man, if that person wasn't so stressed out because they didn't have a job where they weren't being paid, or they were in a space where people were being just respectful to them and being harmful to them, so then they go out into the world and they create more harm than maybe, like if we could reduce that, then maybe the world could be what I think it could be, which is just like this really great place with people who create positive, amazing things. And so that's really what it is. And so it's that desire to just have more positivity in the world because it's too hard to think that there's no hope. So like if I can figure out how to help create more hope, I think that's what really makes me do this work all the time. - We are here in these streets, y'all don't understand. We are, we really are here. So one, going back to what you said prior, because when you said harm reduction, that was it. You, you, let's throw it all, let's throw it all at the window. But you know, just to kind of to go back to how, you know, this community of like, might it folks works, right? Like Nipsey in an interview has said, when you're in survival mode, you're not worried about the rules, the law, or what you think about me. And what you just said was you're trying to take people from survival into thriving, right? Because when you're thriving, you don't, you get to have morals again, you get to have ethics, you get to have boundaries, you get to have capacities for yourself. And that's, that to me is the important part of like these conversations is, how do we create understanding when there's moments of division? How do we create compassion? When there's moments of like aggression or harm, right? And harm, you said harm reduction. So let me break down for those that might be unfamiliar. If I see somebody smoking some weed, and I run up on it and I'm like, you shouldn't be smoking a weed, smoking is there for you, right? That's, they're more likely to meet that with, you're in my adversary, you're against me. This is a divisive moment. Now, if I come to them and I see that they smoking a blunt, but those I don't know, that's when you have a tobacco wrap leaf around some marijuana, right? Now, if I have the conversation with them, I say, oh, you smoking blunts, have you over smoked papers? That is now the harm reduction, like that is harm reduction, because we're taking it from you smoking a blunt, which is, okay, I see you smoking weed. Let's have a conversation about other ways to use this, to consume this, right? Because then I can break it down from, okay, you smoking a blunt to maybe you could smoke papers, to maybe you could smoke a pipe, to maybe you could eat it, right? Because a lot of times people are smoking weed for the benefit of what it does, 'cause it does have benefits, right? Whether that's to relieve stress, whether that's to do with anxiety, whether that's to deal with appetite. Everyone has their reasons, right? Whether it's recreational or medicinal, we all have our reasons. So the thing is in harm reduction, it's, oh, you're smoking, it's causing harm because that's a backo leaf, right? Yes, I get it, that great choking burning sensation of that first initial hit, it cannot be matched. But what is it doing now? Because you're associating the weed with a tobacco, you're almost changing your mind into the dependency beyond just weed, right? The dependency is now, I need it on our routine fix, because I also am taking in nicotine with it. Now, the conversation changed. When I talk to kids about this, they'd be like, yo, I never thought about it like that. No one's ever talked to me about it like that. You know what, I'm gonna try it and see what happens. And I'm not looking for them to change, I'm looking for them to at least explore the thought to see, like, well, how do you engage with your own personal health? And then trying something different because eventually maybe you get to the point where it's like, oh, I don't even need it. Or maybe I get to the point where I'm not putting smoke inhalation into my lungs, I'm consuming this in a more sustainable manner, right? So harm reduction is the idea of, let's reduce the harm. And that doesn't just apply to substance use, that applies to the community, that applies to how we treat each other, that applies to our conversations on our communication. But I'll fluent, what was you getting ready to say? - Well, before we let Biggo, because she got things to do at home and we wanna make sure that we. - One quick thing, one quick thing. My pronouns are they, them, they're not hurt. - So, that you're right. Excuse me, thank you. And I've been good all this week about it. In every reference, when talking about you, I'm like, on point, and then I mess it up live. Excuse me for that. But before we let Biggo, they have some home things to take care of and we wanna make sure they do that. But, B, I wanted to hear, senior talked about something that you mentioned, that you do in terms of listening to people, and creating that conversation instead of like, stereotyping, instead of passing judgment, creating that conversation where you create the opportunity to listen to somebody and say, have you thought about this or have you tried this? And how important is that in today's society for us to promote listening and allowing dialogue to happen and allowing people to, like you put it, I think, on your blog, for the end of last month, just like unlocking somebody's true self. How important is that right now? - Yeah, I think it's super important. So, the thing that we have to remember is that every time we interact with someone, we bring in our own biases, right? And that is a huge issue. To be truthful, so obviously, I am a super proper, like, Yankee now, so I'm still something, but in some ways I'm a Yankee, right? And so, I am materially different than many people I interact with on a regular basis. And so, if I put my own biases on them, in fact, I was listening to a call with someone who actually, I deeply respected before this call, but after the call, I was like, "Well, I don't know how to expect this woman anymore." And it was because, like, it was very obvious, that they were just, they were following a script in the advice they were giving people, versus listening to what people were at, like saying. So, for instance, a person, like, it was a Q&A section, and the person asked a question, and in the question, they indicated why they couldn't pursue a certain path, but that person had already decided how they were gonna enter into the answer made no sense whatsoever, right? And so, I know that when I thought about that person, how they left that call, I was like, "They have to be so discouraged because this person who they highly respected and listened to them." And because you have no biases, you have to take a step back. Like, so, for instance, I'm a very loud extrovert, you know? So, like, when it comes to, like, for instance, like someone might say, like, "I don't know how to ask for a raise, I've never had that problem." Because, like, I know how much I'm worth, and I'm real loud about it, and I will leave the company, like, I will legitimately just be like, just so you know, already got applications out. So, you can give me a raise, or you cannot, but be good, right? But most people aren't like that. And so, you have to really take a step back and think, if I were this person, if I wanted to be successful in this person situation, what do I need to, what type of advice do I need to give them? So, for instance, like, what the, asking for a raise, for a lot of introverts, it's so much easier for them to do research and create, like, a table of the various salaries, right? Because then it's a data-driven thing. So, it's not even them, they don't even necessarily even have to say, they can just say, "Hey, by the way, I looked up all this information about my, role in my years of experience. And I know this is how much these people get paid. I was wondering if we could work to that. And so that's a way an introvert can actually go about that and be successful in that conversation. And then they actually, they feel very empowered and then it allows them to kind of open up in other ways. So it really is about being the type of individual who takes that step back, who thinks about individuals, and then make sure that you're advice is tailored to them. But as if it's not, they're never going to be unlocked. And so then it's like, what was the point of it? What was the point of even participating in this way? Because it is a waste of both of your times because you haven't taken the time to listen to them. And obviously when we think about the larger picture of things, we think about government and stuff like that, I always think it's very fascinating because being a son and a son, obviously I'm probably a little bit more conservative than some, my California counterpart, right? And they're some, honestly, some of the stuff you'll do out here in California, I'd be like, how really do that in public? That's a skeptical, like I didn't even know that that was a thing that you know that you did, right? So it's like really, really fascinating. But the thing is is that by me coming here and just being completely open to what they're saying, it's completely unlike my mind about so many things too. So the other reason that you want to listen is that sometimes it's things you take a step back and kind of improve upon who you are. And that's the other great value out of it is because like one, if you ever get to the point where you stop growing, like what the heck is the point of living life, right? And so it's really, really great to have that two way communication because you helped the other person, but then you also often get help yourself. Be for that. Thank you so much for your time. Where can people find you for our audio only people? What is the places you show up? You know, so I am across the internet. First of all, I'm the only B Pagels minor in the world. You know, my wife insisted that we be a dual name. So we are the Pagels Miners. And I'm on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn. I honestly, so if it's professional, I really prefer LinkedIn just because it always makes it easier for me to understand the context. But I also love completely shady, trashy stuff. So feel free to send that to me on Instagram and Twitter because it tickles me to death. And also one of my favorite things is I love when people make me blush. Actually, it's getting harder because in California's again, have helped me grow. But I freaking love the stuff that you all said because it will be hilarious. Be thank you so much for your time. We're not going to take too much of it. I appreciate you taking this time out with us. Thank you for sharing so much and giving so much of yourself. But I am tempted, you know, we got to get a part two, part three because there is a wealth of information that people need that you that you have. But in the meantime, in between time, you know where to find be be Pagels minor, right? That's that's B P as in, you know, Paul. And then instead of it being like bagel, you take that B output of P. I know it's confusing. But then minor, you all know that like B. Pagels minor, right? B P A G L, whatever M I N or what anyways, B. Thank you very much for coming through. I'm sorry for butchering your name. But I appreciate you and you know, all the praise and all the love and all the admiration and continue the work and just know all our resumes going to be popping up soon. So thank you. I love it. Bye everyone. Take care. Enjoy dinner. Peace. - And then he's-- - He's-- - But show, but show.