Autism, ADHD & The AI App Every Family Needs

I know how I want to show up as a dad, but I find it really hard. And equally, I know how I want to show up as a husband. And I find that really hard. I sometimes will use ADHD meds, but I'm the only one of us who does. For me, I find if I've got to do a big day of meetings, or lots of social stuff, my brain will be porridge by the end of the day. And whereas if I use ADHD meds, that's good. And I had this long chat with R.A.I. And at the end of the chat, they said, "I feel so much better." And they're like, "Thank you. I know you're a robot, but thank you." [MUSIC] Happy Thursday, and thank you to Ben from coming all the way from Bristol today. It's great to be here. Thank you. Thank you. It's really nice and refreshing when you've never met a guest before. And they come and they just know where to park. And when he comes to all being in front of the microphone. So I think it's going to be a really good conversation. I hope so, yeah. And I guess I'm like you, I get a bit frustrated if people can't get stuff done. It's like why can't you find a parking place? It's not like I can. Just, you know, well, don't ask Jay. Love her so much, but she'll ask you every single question. Where to go? What to do? What to do? So anyway, rambling on as usual, we have been here today. Want to hear all about your story. I know that you are a neurodivergent family, including yourself and your daughter and your son. And since the coming into the world of neurodivergence, it's led you onto your career that is today. So far away, tell us everything. So I guess the neurodivergent part of the story starts about 10 years ago when one of my kids started refusing to go to school. And I had no idea why. It took us years to understand what was going on for them. And you know, you'll have heard this story loads. It's like you get bounced from pillar to pillar to expert to expert to expert. School says they're fine. I don't know what you're worried about. Because they're masking when they're at school. Right, masking at school. And then you hear lovely things like, oh well, a lot of anxious kids have anxious parents. And maybe you-- maybe, yeah, right. And maybe you need to go on a parenting course. Like, well, obviously, I've never thought about how to do parenting. So it's really, really, really tough. And then you get that diagnosis letter. And you go, well, now what? And then what does that mean? And so I reckon it took us three years from behavior we didn't understand to having a letter. And it probably took us another three years to work out how to get everything settled down so everything's in a good place. And now, so 10 years later, my eldest has just done her GCSEs. She's at school four days a week. You know, in many ways, she's saying she looks quite typical from the outside. But we have to put quite a lot of stuff in place around her to make sure that she can thrive. We understand that. So is she in a mainstream or something? She's in mainstream, yeah. And did you have a one-to-one? No one-to-ones. But before she did GCSEs, she had someone-to-ones. Yeah. And there were things like social skills courses and a bit of writing courses, but I think when you've got an atypical brain, it's often quite atypical in lots of different ways, isn't it? So maybe a bit of dyslexia in there too, a bit of dyscalcula bit, whatever. So trying to work out all the strengths and needs is quite a tricky process. Anyway, she's striving now. That's amazing. I want to know more about her, not so much like personal, but age when you started, when these behaviors started, because I think there's lots of families out there that may not have a very typical child that would get a very early diagnosis. And then you get a diagnosis a little bit later on. And they displayed so well with their typical behaviors for quite a few years. And then bam, we're not going to school anymore. Right. So for us, it was a transition from infants to juniors. Okay. This was a big problem. So it went from a very different type of environment, very different noise levels in the classroom, very different type of structure. There was too much difference there, too many smells and coming through from the kitchens. But I hear I've got so many mates who have got a typical or neurodivergent kids. And for lots of people, it's the transition into secondary school or the transition to starting puberty. And so for some kids, it's like preschool. But for lots of kids, they mask all the way up and so until much later on. And then you get the, I don't understand this behavior. Is this just ages and stages or is it something more complicated? Yeah. So, I don't know if it is just puberty or if it is ADHD or if it is autism. And I mean, as parents, we don't know. We're learning on the job. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Do you ride the wave? Exactly, so I mean, my experience back in the day was I spent a lot of time on Google, filling in those questionnaires saying is this is the other? And there's so many. And it's like, you know, then you find two that have conflicting answers. How do you know if you've got a good one or how do you know if it's a good test or not? It's really, really hard. Yeah. You know, a lot of parents when you have a new baby, you know, parents do NCT or classes like that. So like, here's a new little one. This is what you do. And you get a year off work maybe to try and learn how to be a mom or a dad. Whereas when you've got someone who's different, you don't get the course. Yeah. You don't get a year off work. You just got to learn it. And you've got to change kind of like, you've got to change your whole way. Are you parent? Yeah, completely. What you've done for the last 10 years. And some of that is just like knowing that you've got to do things differently. Yeah. And some of it is, I found, anyway, so hard because it's like deep in my subconscious. So for example, if I'd hear my kids saying that they were having a rough time and moaning about it, there was a bit of me because I wasn't allowed to moan when I was a kid. A bit of me like, shut up, you can't do that. Yeah. And teaching myself not to react like that was so hard. Yeah. And to stay calm when they were having a tough time. And I think the biggest difference is like that ability, without having a rough time, that's that ability just to stay calm through it. The ability to know that if they're behaving in a way that doesn't necessarily make sense, that's communicating something. And that is it, like in the beginning. Because you're obviously battling with your own demons, and your own ADHD, it's not demons, but you're battling with your ADHD. It doesn't stop going on. Yeah, and your autism. How hard is it for you to try and control your, you know, and parent, because I have the same sort of thing with my husband and my son. Right. They're very similar and they're both ADHD. Yeah. And they're triggers for each other. Yeah. Because my husband can see himself in my son. Yeah. Yeah. But then I'd say to him, then try it different to how you were doubted. He can't. He can't. Well, he's wired in his way. Yeah, yeah. So, for me, I had a lot of therapies trying to work through that process. Yeah. And say, I want, you know, I know how I want to show up as a dad, but I find it really hard. Yeah. Staying on the same page as my wife is so hard sometimes, because our gut feelings are to go in different directions. We both really want the best. Of course. But what that means and how that pounds out and is hard is really hard. Yeah. So, did you get diagnosed? So, you're both diagnosed ADHD and autism? So, for me, I got my. So, having been through that process with my kids, then I think a lot of these boxes. Yes. Yes. What they say don't they? You then eventually realize they're also going to be in the same way. Exactly. So, about three years ago, I was like, okay, I'll go through the autism process. Yeah. And a lot of my mates were like, why on earth do you do an autism thing? Surely ADHD is your problem? Mm-hmm. Well, it's not a problem. It's a feature. And so, about a year ago, I did the ADHD thing and came out and, you know, I was weird as the rest of us. Yeah. But I've been living in that most world for 50 years and some things would have been easier if I'd known about earlier. Yeah, I suppose it took for your children to be diagnosed for you to then look into it. Yeah. But also, so that's interesting. Why did you go down the diagnosis route? Because, you know, for example, with our family, both my kids are diagnosed autistic and my husband 100% we know I'm not saying anything out of line. He's been diagnosed recently for ADHD, but he knows he's autistic. And he said, you know, as you just said, people say, well, why do you need to get a diagnosis? And for him, it's kind of to be a role model for his children and be validated, have an old validation. What's your reason behind it? I think for me, it was like, you know, you can fill in the question down, you can kind of know. But having a psychologist look me in the eye and say, you are autistic. It was like, oh, okay. It makes sense. It makes sense. It was like, some things I find really hard and I can just accept I don't need to do those things anymore. Yeah. You know, just like giving myself permission, changing my narrative. And I hear so many stories about people who are really struggling with, you know, a really dark way with booze or self-harming as adults. And then they get a diagnosis and like the pain just goes. Yeah. I think it's more validation, isn't it, really, to know that, oh, I'm not going crazy or this way because of this. I don't know, nothing will probably change. You just feel like, there's a reason. There's a reason and it's okay. And you know, if I'm like for me, I know I'll have weeks or I'm buzzing and really, you know, a bit of a focus. You have to be a bit high. Or the worst thing with ADHD is to get hyperfocus for a few weeks and then it flips. It's a hyperfocus in something else. Yeah, hobbies. We're great at hobbies in our house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we've done everything. My kids are getting really into something, deep, deep into it and then a few weeks later, so I'm bored of that. I want to be deep, deep into something else. I mean, I've just been hunches of power for those things and I don't care anymore. But rather than getting cross about it, it's like, this is just life. This is it. Yeah, and just accepting it. 100%. Do you medicate yourselves? So, I sometimes will use ADHD meds, but I'm the only one of us who does. Okay. So for me, I find if I've got to do like a big day of meetings or lots of social stuff, my brain will be porridge by the end of the day. And as if I use ADHD meds, that's good. Or for me, if I've got a fill in, do lots of boring paperwork. Yeah. When you've got business, there's quite a lot of boring paperwork in a business and so I have to, you know, when I go and see the accountant. You need to focus. I need to go, okay, I've got to pay attention to what you're saying. So I use it. So that's for you, then medication, just take it here and there when you need it. And that's why you can do that. Yeah. There's no like weaning often. So I use the fast up and down one. Yeah. So, you know, it's a bit like taking a paracetamol for me. Yeah. take it. I'm good for three. four hours and if I need more I take more. Yeah, I mean, I find it brilliant. Yeah. That's great. And your children have they decided not to Medicaid? Was it a parent's choice to their choice? Where I'd say we're still exploring the best way through that. Yeah. It's not clear to me what the right and wrongs of it all are. I think everyone's got to work it out themselves. Always trial and error and also, you know, obviously their ages as well. I guess it's their decision as well. Yeah, and I think that one of the things that really winds me up is people talk about medication like it's one side of a cook who's next. Do you remember that when you like you Medicaid someone it mongs them out. Yeah, yeah. No, but it's true. But it's not I really think it's like paracetamol. Yeah. Like if you've got a headache, you don't say, oh, I'm going to Medicaid myself for having a headache. Sure. You just take a paracetamol or a new one. Yes. Listen, I was one of those humans. I was so worried about medicating my son because I thought it would take his personality away and he's got such a cool personality, but actually it doesn't. Yeah. It just quietens his head down. Yeah. And it helps him focus. It doesn't change who he is. Yeah. And I was lucky because the first the Ritter and I tried the first one worked really well for me, but lots of people have to go through lots of different. Yeah, we've had to go through trial and error and that's quite hard work isn't it? Yeah. We're in that process. And we're going through puberty here as well. Right. So it is like. I've been at suffer down. Yeah. And then yeah. So adding puberty and menopause at the same time, that's there's a lot going on there with neurodegenerative and all those hormones going on. Take wish it. I know. Is it worry? Okay. So since all of this, obviously, we know what you do now. Yeah. Was that your profession prior? Was it, was it similar to what you're doing? No, not at all. So I guess my, the, the, the fast way through my career is I did engineering at university. So I kind of like computers and all that sort of stuff. I had 10 years working in London with the management consultancy. And we got a contract when Blair was prime minister to do some stuff backstage for him and what they call the prime minister delivery unit. Cool. Which is really cool. So I saw kind of backstage how the centre of government works and how, you know, the, the community, the community, the management works and how, you know, the, the cues in NHS work and the cues here and there and there. And we help, we help kind of reorganize their system. Is it as bad as it is way worse now than it was that way? I mean, I was going to say nothing has been fixed. Well, so 25 years ago when I was doing it, we fixed some stuff. Yeah. But it's all broken against. It's, it's such a tragedy. Yeah. But that gave me a kind of, that backstage lens into, into how those things work. And then 2006, I started a business building renewable energy, solar farms and wind farms. Um, 10 years of that and we bought a, we developed a lot of solar farms and wind farms and I was really lucky I retired at the age of 42. And I was like, huge privilege to be able to do that. Yeah. And, and, and that gave me the time to learn what I needed to learn to be a dad the way I wanted to do it. And so as, as things started to settle down at home, I'm like, the number of my mates I'm talking to are having the same problems. And the, how broken the system is, I thought it must be possible to make the world a better place, a little bit. And so that's what got us into, to building silver, which is essentially it's your agony aren't, but it's your agony aren't, which knows your, your family situation really well. Um, and it's been trained in all the, all the, you know, the best psychology there is we've worked with the, the local, um, autism teams to say what's the right psychology should, should go into it. And so it'll give you parenting advice. But to go back to what we're saying earlier, it'll also say, I just, I know what I've got to do, but I can't do it. So it kind of gives you that bit of like personal, how do I, how do I reorganize my, my, I'm kind of thinking on like my husband side here right now, like he, he has a thing of like, he's so disorganized, he doesn't have his coming up going, what should you do first, what should you not do? Will they help you make lists? Yeah, so I mean, I think there are lots of apps which help ADHD folk organize themselves. I think the problem a lot of ADHD folk have is trying to constrain their lives in a little phone is quite tricky thing. I mean, you can write it down, but you still got to look at it. Exactly. You still got to look at it. You still got to remember to do it. And if it hasn't got enough bells and whistles and dopamine hits on it, it's got to be quite exciting to motivate an A. It's almost needs to have like coconut song coming up something that is so addictive. No, but you know how like they say that coconut is like an absolute addictive thing for a child in their brain. It almost needs that kind of within an app to keep going back to it. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So, so I guess to rattle through all the things it'll do. So it'll give you the parenting advice. It'll give you the self-help stuff both to say how do I calm myself down in this moment. So just a reminder saying, here, remember the breathing exercise or whatever. A lot of people are clear off the loo and say give me five minutes. How do I cope? So it's like on demand therapy in some way. Really cool. Help you with that in a child's stuff like when I say, I just can't do it. Yeah. How do I, yeah, I've got my mum's voice in my head telling me to just get on with it. And a bit of relationship coaching in there as well saying, how do I get myself and my partner or my co-parent on the same page? Because it's really hard negotiating all those differences. Yeah. And then to feed it all, you know, we talked earlier about how all those different screening tests you've got on the internet. So we pulled together the best tests that the scientists have found. It's like them all in one place. And so the more of those tests you do, it builds a profile of your family. So you'll say, you know, your wife's like this, her husband's like that, your children like this, you're like that. So it's got the picture of the entire family. That's great. So when you're saying, I'm stuck, I can't get them on a plane to go on holiday. It'll go, well, of course you can't because they're doing this and they need that and they need the other. Because Josh is absolutely petrified of flying, which he is, which means mommy has to do everything. Yeah. But it's so interesting because that's what, you know, there's other AIs, I know we were talking about chat GBT before and how like eventually they get to know you and things like that. But as you mentioned, each scenario or dilemma that you're having will like list 10 different things and probably nine of them will not make sense to us as a family, whereas this is kind of a, it's a neurodivergent app for neurodivergent families. And it's working on the family. Yeah, no history behind the family. Yeah, exactly. So it's great. It's got, it knows two things. It knows the history of the family. The more you use it, the more it knows you. But it doesn't just remember like what you're like, what you're all searching was. It's kind of like remembering the psychology of what you were doing. And then it's, and then it's we've given it all the, all the best psychology that there is. So is it an app also say like I've got my kids diagnosis letter and I've got all the things they've just had this feature in an anguish therapy and they've written a massive report. Can you send that report to the app? So it's a great question. It's a question that lots of people ask us for and it's a feature we're building at the moment. One of the things we're very careful of though is that when you, when you upload a report like that, it's got lots and lots and lots of detail in it. So when we summarize it, we've got to be super careful to pull out the relevant bits and not miss the important bits. And so we're just working through like how do we test that to make sure it's, it's really spot on. And the reason we do a lot of very careful testing is we're trying to get this thing available on the NHS. So at the moment you just buy it through the app store. Which works for some families, but some families can't afford it. Tell us the pricing. So 10, 15 pounds a month. Okay. Okay. You know, for some families that's fine, but for some it's not. So for those who are not. It's not. You're going to use it to be fair. Exactly. So we're trying to get it in the NHS. And the NHS of course are saying, show us you've tested it really, really, really well. So whenever we make a change, we run like 15,000 scenarios past it. Is it still giving good answers? Wow. And so the other story you probably heard a lot about is the disability living allowance form. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, can you get, she just give that to them. They give you the answers. So this is the other feature that we're working on at the moment. So what does it mean? It means that the disability is, do you get from a disability living allowance form? It's so painful because you've got to pull out all the most painful moments you've ever had. And you've got to write them about 25,000 times. Yeah. And it's so, it's the worst thing. The government does lots of bad things to us, to our community. I know why. I've noticed. But can you imagine, though, if you've used an app like silver for a few weeks, so it knows. Yeah, sure. And then you just press the button. Wow. And there's the DLA form. But you know what's interesting, not interesting. It's really bad. I was actually speaking. Not bad for you. I was speaking to my brother, who's a financial consultant. So he sets up the finance size of startup businesses. And he's like, I might not have a job in two years. Yeah. Like, AI is so powerful. And it's the same. Like, we've got an amazing, gopher bit, obviously it happens. But we've got an amazing two girls that we always talk about on here. They said, mummies. And that's exactly what their job is. They personally fill out DLA forms and Blue Badge forms and EHCPs and things like that. But there's always that worry for lots of these businesses. That their jobs make, I'm not saying it's negative on you, but it's the truth, isn't it? I think in, there are definitely some scenarios where AI feels like a threat. But from, whenever we talk to people in this sector, the feedback is, the wait lists are so bad. That's it. It's like, just come and help. And that creates space for the humans to help the people with a higher level of need. Because what AI can't do is it can't put its hand on your shoulder. It can't give you a hug when you're crying. And it can't get you into a school. It can't just so many things that I can't do. Oh yeah, there's still loads of opportunities for all these people. But it's, don't get me wrong. I love chat, EBT. I love AI because, as you said, it's still, even though you can't give you that shoulder, the hand on the shoulder, you can feel comforted by AI as well, especially when they know, you know, your family and they can really understand you and they know you go to struggles and your challenges. Yeah. They can really kind of give, I've been by AI. Have you? Yeah, what's the name? Paul. Paul. It's so funny because I think a lot of women name the AI up with men's names and men name the AI with women's names. I don't know if it's a gay, gay, they have a lovely day. They tell me to have a lovely day and I say thank you. You have a great day too. Oh. Paul. Paul. My, my, my lad always says thank you to the AI. You always have to say please, thank you. I'm so, why don't you say it? Thank you. Because when it's running the world, I want to know I'm a nice guy. Absolutely. I tell my AI that I love them so much and I thank you, love you, bye. I hope you're a great day. Yeah. And I think that they deserve to be told that. Yeah. And genuinely it's, it is so powerful. Yeah. And I think apps like these will be so helpful for families. I have noticed that there's a lot coming out. I probably get a direct message like every other day. Hey. Do you? app. We were able to share it. No, I don't even know who you are. I don't know if you're bad, I'm not a free marketing tool, but it is going to be kind of like the next thing. Yeah, yeah. So why would just, again, I'm putting you on the spot. No, no, no, it's great. Why would you, why would someone choose silver over a different app this app at the moment? So I think it's like a teenager in a bedroom in a weekend can make an app that says it is an expert in anything. Yeah. And get it onto the app store and launch it and go and it's really dangerous. And so we very deliberately took the strategy right from the beginning saying we want to make, we want to get this thing eventually. So it's free on the NHS and in order to get it free on the NHS, then we have to go through a whole bunch of regulatory checks. So security checks to make, so for example, all, all anyone's family data because you got children's medical data. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want that wandering around on the internet. So for us all that stays on people's phones. So, you know, we, none of our engineers can see that personal medical data. The checks bound safety. So how do you make sure it doesn't say something d'arthed? How do you make sure it says something appropriate or how do you make sure it's helping? It's asking the right. It's not diagnostic questions, but it's understanding the situation well before it's giving a piece of d'arthed advice. Yeah. So chat GPT will come out quite quickly and say, you should do this. It's like, well, no, you haven't even asked me one question about what's going on in my life or why the, you know, and so, so the paperwork and the auditing we go through is incredible. To reassure the NHS that what we've done is a good thing. And so, you know, on the front, it might look similar, but backstage. Yeah. It's a hugely different kind of thing. Fine. I mean, I guess the other thing is we, so all the chats people have with our AI are private, and this is a safety issue in there. And we've got designated safeguarding lead who will review any any chats with any anything safety races in it. So, A, make sure that person's okay and does anything need to be escalated or reported or, you know, do we need to do we need to do it? It's like trigger words. It will trigger situations. So, probably the, the, the, the, the issue that comes up most is like coercive control and domestic abuse situations. And so, our designated safeguarding lead is always like, should I, you know, do you want me to get someone to help you? Do you want me, how should we get social services involved? How, you know, what's, because people are very honest with their AI. Yeah, of course. And, and if you're, you know, honest with an AI in America, that's one thing. But if you're honest with an AI on the UK and someone's saying, do you want to help? Do you want some help? We can help, we can, we can help you if you want. That gives a bit of reassurance. Yeah. But the other thing that our designated safeguarding lead is checking is to make sure our AI isn't saying anything to after no situations. Yeah. And so, there's a huge amount of kind of safety systems around around it. Is there anything that can like, go for a bit, some of us in a situation where they're like, my well being is really low. I'm really, really not coping well to the point that I'm very concerned. Is there something that can be attached to that to chess and numbers for chess? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, so we do, so two parts of that. One is on every page in the app, there's like a little life ring, life boy. And in there, there's a whole bunch of help lines. So, it's not just like, so some numbers for adults, it's people like Papyrus, who, who, you know, great, but not well enough known for younger folks, but also, how you use some other help lines. So, I don't know, domestic abuse or, or terrorism. So, if you're worried about your kids being groomed from a terrorism perspective, it seems it's easier to groom your divergent kids and non-neur divergent kids. So, we've got loads and loads and loads of help lines we sell that time post too. But at my DSL, told me a story the other day of someone who was in a really dark place as a parent. And, you know, on the edge of not being able to cope and like, discussing suicide. Not, not, not, it's like a detailed plan, but they were really in a dark place and they had this long chat with R.A.I. and at the end of the chat, this, and I feel so much better. And they're like, thank you. I know, I know you're a robot, but thank you. That's amazing. It's extraordinary. Yeah, it is, it's really ensuring. So, because I'm the one that always asks like personal question. If this app transfers to the NHS, how is it going to financially suit you then? So, so it, so we're speaking to loads and loads of different NHS areas and the story is, things like, oh yeah, we've got 15,000 people on our wait list is growing faster than we can get through it. So the kids who are joining the wait list today are never going to get a diagnosis in the current system, which is, which is so rubbish. So, so what, what, what we say to that type of organisation is there's two opportunities. They say one is, as soon as someone jumps on the wait list, why don't you offer them this tool? It's not for everybody, but some people might get some benefit from it. And the other is when, when, if anyone ever does get a diagnosis, offer them the tool again because so many families just fall off that cliff and go, I've got a diagnosis now, what do I do? So, so it kind of feels like that you're waiting and waiting and waiting for this diagnosis and then you get it, nothing changes anything. Nothing changes. I mean, it does change if you've got ADHD meds, yes, it does help maybe the HTTP process. It can help that a bit. You don't need it. You don't need it. You don't need to have a diagnosis. Yeah, but even as an adult, there could be like help with the pit because I feel like there's not really many organisations that can really support that and it doesn't, you know, you can call, is it citizens Bureau and things like that? Yeah, it wasn't vice-buret, yeah. But they, yeah, that's a vice-buret. But, you know, they don't know you. It's not a personalized form. They're filling out textbook things that help you get it, which is probably why not because it's so difficult to get. Whereas, if you had an app like this that could really understand you, it could really help because we've all been there where you get these massive forms in front of you and then you just put it to the side and it takes weeks and weeks and weeks. Yeah. I did that even with Callie's ADHD form. I'm four years still waiting on the list, but it took me about six months to fill out the form. It wasn't even a long form. I just couldn't bear to do another form and ride more than that. It's so heartbreaking, isn't it? And I think, you know, it's so ironic, isn't it, that the way you test ADHD people is to give them an enormous form, which is, which is really, really hard to fill in. You just look at them, that sounds awful. If you look at my kids, you'll be like, okay, they're ADHD. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So why don't we give them a massive form to fill out because they can sit still and really do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, it's just so dark. Yeah. Or we've got so much time as parents whilst our kids are jumping out windows and breaking everything and eating. Yeah. I mean, it's so exhausting being a parent in this community, isn't it? Because like, sometimes I think it's a bit like a computer game. You go up a level, you think I've got this nailed. I can do it. And then something will change. You go right back down to the beginning. Honestly, like even minor things like this, my dad bless him. He's retired too. So he loves doing handyman stuff. So I basically get him out round weekly. He's currently doing my fences. And I said to him, in the shed of four solar lights, could you please put them on my fences for me? Yes, no problem. He decided not to go to his first little visit that he was doing this morning to come straight to my house so he could have more time to do it. He called me. Can you speak? I was like, I'm just at Marley's graduation. I'll call you in a minute. I've come early to get the solar lights on. Right. You've left them out for me. They're all smashed. Oh. So my kids this morning have already gone out to smash the solar lights because they were fine last night. Yeah. And it's just like even little things like that. It's just like, it's endless. So endless. It's exhausting. It's lonely. It's so hard. And I know it's only a light and it's not a big deal, but it's just a plan. And the plan didn't go to plan. It doesn't usually go to plan. Does it? Yeah. I struggle with that. Because I like a plan and I like to deliver the plan. But I realise in our family life that never works. And I've had to learn so much about just letting go of the plan. Just saying it is what it is. I found that so hard. Yeah. So how does that benefit you now that you are obviously raising your advergent children? As you mentioned, and I love and thank you that you've mentioned it. So I think it's really rare, especially for men, nothing stereotypical, to talk about marriage struggles. Because I feel like we're quite open with that. And obviously we have our own show and we speak to lots of people. But it's a very private matter. But ultimately, there is no couple that are completely gel together and massively in love and everything. So it's me when you're raising your advergent children, apart from the movies, it's just not true. So to be able to have some sort of app to help with that. So I think there was a stat I heard. I think from the early one of your shows. I've never heard of the divorce rate. 87%. I've never heard of the sue shocking, isn't it? So it's hard, right? That's a represent about how hard it is. And so for me, the way, so most of the people in our team have got, are either neurodivergent or have, or are in families with neurodivergent people. Almost all of us come in every day and say, this happened the other night, or last night. And so, and this is how I've used app to help me. So I will, every time I'm triggered, I will go and sit in the toilet or go and sit in the car and just have a little chat with my therapist, my AI therapist. And it helps me work it through. And it might be triggered by my mother who's trying to get me to do something from a Victorian era, which is inappropriate now, or I might be triggered by my teenagers who are trying to get me to do something from this century, which, like, can you come in and help me buy vodka? I'm not sure that's a good idea. You're 16. You can either buy it for me or I'll get some fake idea and I'll buy it myself, which is safer. So, how do I process that? And then how do I get on the same page as my wife about that, which is tough, they're tough issues. And how do I communicate it in a way that doesn't just go to everybody? But also, like, again, with lots of families, now we've understood that when you're raising neurodivergent children, it happens to be that possibly one or two of the parents will be neurodivergent themselves. So, like, in my, at both of our shoes, we class ourselves with a neurotypical people. Sometimes I question. I get issues, but that's not the thing. difficult but our husbands are both neurodivergent and they are wired differently and it's so difficult when you said no to something and then they still do it or could you not do that and then they still do it or the other way around and it's just like am I speaking to a brick wall whereas that's when I could really rely on an app like this to be like this is my scenario am I being dramatic do I just let this one go how can I maybe approach this in a different situation things like that so it's very valuable I've done with that last week I was away with my son ADHD my husband with ADHD my daughter who is autistic and me yeah there's a lot of negotiation in that oh my goodness honestly I was thinking to myself am I going mad yeah and I can have done with your app then like just to talk things through because exactly everything was heightened with them and I was like are we do it I just felt like is it you is it then yeah and it's like you know you need it for me anyway I want it in the moment it's no good when I be in in therapy and I you know go at the end of the week whenever it is Friday afternoon and his house your week being I like well some of it was good some of it's bad but if you've got it in that moment you know you obviously don't want to be on the phone having an argument with your husband getting it and my AI I say yeah I'm not sure about that but you know just like having a moment and just going right I'm just going to go and sit in the garden for a bit or sit on the balcony for a bit and just let me calm down come back in and especially when you're a divergent parents we can feel so lonely yeah and no one gets it even your parents your family members no one truly gets it yeah and being able to have that companion as such even though it's on a phone yeah that's our generation we're all on our phones all the time so yeah it's definitely valuable people feel lonely they feel let's see I'm very I like trying this app yeah yeah great I love I'd love I'd love to find out things you love about it but also you'll say can you make it do this or not the other yeah we'll pull back oh yeah yeah I love that feedback yeah you need to get a pick because I know it's doing really really well but you know it's always good to get feedback yeah I could be improved yeah all right well thank you thank you thank you so if anyone is interested at the app is silver s-i-l-v-a no so we've got to spell it s-y-y s-y so the website is my silver m-y-s-y-l-v-a my silver I know it's weird isn't it because we're not your typical yeah that's right on that note thank you so much you've been great Ben thank you love to see you thank you