Speaker 1Hello, and welcome back to Equity TechCrunch's flagship podcast about the business of startups. I'm Rebecca Bollan, and this is the episode where we bring on industry experts to help us explore a trend in the tech world and dive deep. At the HumanX conference in San Francisco, I had the chance to sit down with one of the top names in autonomy. And today we're bringing you a conversation I had with Chris Erbsen, CEO of self-driving vehicle tech firm Aurora. For those who aren't following this, self-driving has been almost there for a long time. But the commercialization story may be finally changing with long haul trucking. So I had Chris walk us through what is actually shifted after a decade of technical bottlenecks, why trucking could have a better pathway than robo taxis to real revenue, and what founders and investors still tend to get wrong about this market. Chris and I actually just got off a panel and talked about a lot of the stuff. We're going to talk about today. So we're all warmed up for you, Chris. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2Thanks for having me. And, you know, thanks for putting up with me for another half hour.
Speaker 1Please. It's a pleasure. OK, so give us a little bit of a rundown of where you come from because you've had such a storied career in the physical space and where Aurora is today.
Speaker 2Well, I've had the privilege of working in self-driving for 20 something years at this point. I started when I was at Carnegie Mellon University working on the DARPA Grand Challenges, which were these robot race across the desert. I then got a chance to work with Caterpillar on these giant dump trucks for mines. That was a lot of fun. And then I got the privilege of helping found what's now Waymo, what's the Google self-driving car program and and led that for seven and a half years. Ultimately stepped away from that. Took a little break to figure out what I want to do next and hadn't got rid of the bug. And so ended up having a chance to start Aurora. Founded that with Sterling Anderson and Drew Bagnall who are great co-founders. And we've been at it for nine and a half years. And as a company, we've been really focused on our mission, which is to deliver the benefits of self-driving technology safely, quickly and broadly and in the field of trucking. So today, starting April of last year, we have trucks on the road in Texas and now in New Mexico and Arizona hauling goods for customers in a driverless vehicle. This way. And then this year, we're going to go from having a handful of trucks to having hundreds of trucks. So it's a big year for us and an exciting year for the industry.
Speaker 1We talked about this a little bit on stage, but autonomy has been here for over a decade. You're now running commercial driverless trucks. Are we at the start of scale or is this more of a polished pilot phase?
Speaker 2I think we are very much in the begin to scale phase. It's exciting. So we've done over 250,000 miles of driverless operations, so we're getting good experience. We have customers who are learning with us what this means. These are companies like FedEx and Werner and Schneider and Hirschbach, some of the biggest names in trucking and what they're seeing, they like. And so for us, it's this big moment of starting to scale and going from a handful of trucks to hundreds of trucks and then ultimately to thousands of trucks next year and on to tens of thousands of trucks. So we've kind of cracked the the problem and we're now off to, OK, how do we really build a business with this? And importantly, how do we serve customers and make sure we're building their businesses?
Speaker 1How does your roadmap change when you think about, you know, macroeconomic trends? Like we are in a recession, not recession. You know, people are spending a bit less. I imagine that that creates less opportunities for shipping, but maybe I'm not sure. Does that change your roadmap?
Speaker 2I've had the privilege of work in the space that is really transformational, that the impact it will have on safety of America's roads is profound. The impact it's going to have on fuel economy and sustainability is great. And the benefit to our customers in how much they can use the trucks they have and how they can build their businesses is, again, huge. And so that the benefits that we expect and we're seeing with these trucks already really kind of outscale the macroeconomic situation.
Speaker 1There obviously are bottlenecks like we've established that, you know, we all thought autonomy was going to happen a lot faster than it did. Like what are the main bottlenecks? Is it tech? Is it regulation? Is it just, you know, public acceptance?
Speaker 2So I think historically it has been primarily technology that this is a really hard problem, whether you're driving in a city or whether you're hauling a trailer down the road to 70 miles an hour. Like these are very hard problems and it's critical that you get it right. Right. And that you make it safe. Right. That like you just can't cut corners when it comes to safety with these kind of applications. And so I think what you see is the responsible folks are making sure they get to that point where it's safe. And that has really been what's kind of been the bottleneck up until recently. At this point for Aurora, we are very much supply constrained. So the first generation of hardware that we launched with, we knew we could only make a couple of, you know, 20 of those, 25 of those trucks. And so we just couldn't build our fleet. We couldn't grow customers beyond that. What's very exciting is in Q2 of this year, we're going to be launching our second generation of hardware with our new international LT trucks. And that will be able to scale up to about 1,500 trucks. And then next year we'll launch our hardware that we've been building and developing with Amovio. And that'll take us to scales of tens of thousands of trucks a year. And so we're kind of unlocking the supply side. The pilots and work we've been doing with customers are really creating the demand. And, you know, we've got a lot of demand this year. We're getting demand for next year. It's really exciting to see how it's resonating and the values there for customers. And then on the regulatory side, we're seeing progress. So it feels really good.
Speaker 1I want to talk about the regulation stuff, but also, you know, as we're talking about you scaling, I'm curious, you know, all we hear about is chips, chips. There's so much demand for chips. Data centers are using all. I imagine that self-driving trucks, you know, you're doing a lot of onboard inference. Are you fighting with data centers and hyperscalers and AI companies to get access to chips?
Speaker 2Yeah, we're not directly fighting with them for access to chips. The truck is big and has a big engine, but it still has a lot of power limitations that, you know, just aren't relevant for data centers. And so the kind of chips we use are intended for automotive and physical AI applications. And so. That third generation hardware that were launched with Amovio will be on the Thor SOC, and that's something that's been specially designed for this, and it's not super relevant for data centers. So, no, we're not seeing a direct competition for that right now.
Speaker 1OK, you know, going back to regulation, you know, you're running in Texas, you can't run in California yet, right? They've got, I believe, a ban on deployment or testing of fully autonomous or autonomous trucks, right? Anything over like 10,000 pounds or tons or something. How much? How much of your roadmap is dictated by regulation versus the technology?
Speaker 2So today, you know, obviously our roadmap is constrained by regulation. We don't break the law, but we operate places we're allowed to, and that's the vast majority of states in the U.S. And we can build a heck of a business if the law just stays the way it is today. We estimate in the Sunbelt there's 50 billion vehicle miles traveled, and that's mileage that we can go and support and support our customers and grow our business in. What's exciting, though, is that it's not just customers who are seeing the benefit and value, but we're seeing at a regulatory level and at a policymaking level real interest in this. And so we're seeing California, we expect regulations to be released for trucks on the road, and we expect that to happen in the next month or so. So that's really promising. And then we see at a federal level real interest in there being a framework that would create a consistent set of rules across the United States. I think that's an important step. It's one that we look forward to, but it's not one that today is limiting our business.
Speaker 1Yeah, you can operate in all these other states, but California always seems like the Holy Grail. I mean, you've got the it's got the shipping like from, you know, the ocean. Right. Like you need that coast, I guess.
Speaker 2Well, I think another way to think about it, I think California is like the fourth largest economy in the world. Right. Right. And so for sure.
Speaker 1And they're sunny. It's a sunny state. Right. Are you operating in rain conditions?
Speaker 2We do operate in the rain today. Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah. OK. Autonomously?
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1OK.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1How long how long ago did you start doing that?
Speaker 2We started in April of last year operating in the daytime in good weather just between Dallas and Houston. Over the course of the last year, we unlocked kind of what what we call operational design domain increases. Right. So new place we could operate. So we started operating at night. I think in the middle of last year, we started operating to El Paso towards the end of last year. And I think in January we unlocked operating in the rain.
Speaker 1So, yeah. What are your customers most excited about? Like, is it that you can kind of run all night and just do more or do more runs, essentially?
Speaker 2It's a combination of things. So for all of these companies, safety is top of mind. Right. It is, you know, one, two and three, I think, when they when they talk to us. And so the opportunity to have a driver that is always vigilant, that never gets distracted, that is able to look 360 degrees and the safety implications of that, I think, are real. Right. And that's not just good for customers, of course, that's good for us as a society. And beyond that, the ability to utilize the truck more. So, again, if you're a company that runs trucks, you spend $150,000, $200,000 for a truck and you can only operate it half the time because we very rationally limit people to driving a truck 11 hours a day. This allows us to take that truck and use it twice as much. And so if you think, again, any business where you have a major capital expenditure, the more you can utilize it, the better it is for your business. Yeah. They're also excited about the sustainability benefit. So we've done studies that we care about sustainability today. I certainly do. I mean, I certainly do. But it's like it's gone out of. But I think you can you know, you can both think of it as I do is both a societal good that we want the world to be a cleaner place. We want it there for our kids and grandkids. But also you can look at the bottom line. Right. A truck that consumes less fuel is lower cost to operate. And it's less greenhouse gas and other pollutants. Right. And so I think it's a win on both sides. And we expect it to be 14 and 34 percent. And we're actually seeing that in practice in our fleet. So it's it's, again, another big deal, particularly with our current set of adventures and the impact that has on the diesel fuel. Right. It's it's a big win.
Speaker 1We're talking about safety. We're talking about regulation. I remember last year, a couple of years ago, there was a whole. Hullabaloo about safety cones. Do you remember this? You guys, I think, filed a warning triangle, the warning triangle. So for those who don't know, like so much of like road safety is obviously designed around humans. So when a truck pulls over on a highway, they're meant to the drivers meant to get out and put out safety cones at certain distances so that cars coming down the road can see this. Now, if you have a driverless truck, obviously a human can't get out. And do that. Right. So that causes problems that I imagine it's like a weird little regulatory thing that would have held you back from being able to do fully driverless deployments. What's the update on that? Because I covered that when it happened. And I want to tell you, when I was surprised that this story got so many clicks, like so many people were interested.
Speaker 2It's interesting. Right. And I think what's neat about it is it translates, you know, something that a lot of people don't have direct contact with. Right. Like AI and machine learning, verifiable AI. It translates to something very real. Right. A person having to walk down the freeway and put a put a cone down.
Speaker 1It's very loud.
Speaker 2It is. And it's it's grooving here.
Speaker 1You're doing a great job paying attention to your own thoughts while that's happening in the background. It's pretty fun.
Speaker 2You know, it's, you know, it's an external difficulty on the podcast. But you talk about it being this idea of dropping these triangles as a safety thing. Well, it turns out there's no data that shows that. All right. It was a rule that was put in place in the 70s. And then I think it was in the 90s. Nitsa actually studied, should we require that for passenger vehicles? And they said, oh, actually, there's no reason like there's no evidence this is actually helpful. And so our approach has been like how you ask, how do other vehicles on the road tell drivers to look out? Yeah. You know, what does a police car do? What does the emergency vehicle do? What does a tow truck do? A construction vehicle? They all turn on flashing lights and we're like, hey, we should turn on flashing lights and warn people. And it felt very common sense. And it turns out at this point that the administration, the Department of Transportation has come back and said they'll give us a waiver to study this for a few months. And then, you know, that would potentially lead to an exemption that would last for five years. And, you know, we've been excited to have a good conversation with the federal regulators around this. And, you know, they're smart people and they listen to common sense and things are moving forward.
Speaker 1Zooming back out a little bit. So you were part of Waymo. Waymo here in San Francisco is everywhere. They had like a similar but opposite trajectory to you guys, right? Both started thinking, OK, we're going to do highway, autonomous vehicles, autonomous trucks and robo taxis. Waymo ditched the trucking, stuck with the robo taxis. You guys have not, you know, ditched the robo taxis. It'll come back, I'm sure. But now you're focused fully on trucking. What made you make that decision?
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Speaker 2Yeah, like you say, we started wanting, you know, and we continue to believe we're building a driver that can drive all kinds of different things. But you have to pick somewhere. And for us, we pick trucking. We did that for two big reasons. So one is we didn't start with trucking because we didn't think you could solve the problem. When you drive a truck, you have to look a long way down the road. Right. And we're big believers that you use a combination of sensors to do that robustly. Laser radar and camera. And there was no laser sensor. We'd see far enough.
Speaker 1When you say laser, do you mean LIDAR?
Speaker 2I mean LIDAR.
Speaker 1You guys have your own LIDAR, right?
Speaker 2We do. In fact, this is a big part of why we can do trucking. Right. Is that we, when I started the company, I'd been at what's now Waymo. And we'd come to the conclusion you couldn't see far enough with lasers or with LIDAR to drive safely at freeway speeds. When we started Roar, we thought, OK, how do we solve this? We spent a bunch of time trying to find a technology to do it. We found this great company in Bozeman, Montana, of all places, acquired them, brought them. And that turned into what's now First Light, which is this special kind of LIDAR that, because the way we do the measurement, can see way further than a conventional LIDAR can. And so that technological unlock was one that said, OK, we can now go after trucking. And then as a business, we just see trucking as a better opportunity to start with. It's a trillion dollar market in the U.S., whereas ride hailing is a 50 billion dollar market. And so, you know, it's gigantic to go and work with. There's a real need on the safety front. Five hundred thousand collisions with tractor trailers with trucks every year and five thousand fatalities and the economics, the unit economics are stronger that we value a truck being driven three times the value of a Uber being driven. And so when you're bringing new technology to market, having something where you can be profitable sooner and where you have a huge market to grow into, that's just ready for it, just felt like a lot of make common sense to us.
Speaker 1It reminds me of, I mean, and you partly reminded me of this before we started recording. You were talking about CERV Robotics. They do the little sidewalk robots. We've had their CEO on Equity before, Ali. And there's some CERV robots here.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Running around handing out little electrolyte packets, which is exactly what I need. Oh, is that what they are? There were some in there. I was like, that's exactly what I wanted.
Speaker 2I thought they were luggage bags. I didn't look closely. OK, so that's good to know. They're delicious.
Speaker 1Excellent. One thing that Ali said. Was, yeah, the the business is not delivering food like that's not where I want to end. Yeah, but it's a business that makes money today and it allows me to get the data I need for real world use cases of autonomy. I'm curious, what is your end goal? Is it trucking? Is it autonomy at large? Like what's what's what's your why?
Speaker 2Yes. So what I'd say is if all we do is, you know, what we're doing with trucking, it will be the company be incredibly successful. I'd be very proud of what we've done. That said, what we're building is really the vanguard of physical AI, this ability to understand the physical world and to be able to have something interact with it safely. And so that capability is something where we think we can apply it to a lot of things. And, you know, whether it is other elements of logistics, so not just big trucks, but box trucks, or whether it's in adjacencies like, you know, personal mobility and robo taxis, or whether it's in mining or agriculture or. Aerial drones or humanoid robotics. In a couple of years, you'll start to see us explore where we can take this muscle that we've built and apply it other places. And so it'll be fun to see. I'm not sure exactly which of those places it goes. But what I do know is we're going to be very uniquely positioned, not just with the capability we've built internally, but with the scale that will come from the trucking business and the cost down that comes with that scale. And so I think it's going to be it's gonna be a lot of fun for the next few years.
Speaker 1Yeah. Well, what have you learned, you know, in your. How many decades? How long has it been?
Speaker 2Oh, good gosh. It's been 24 years, something like that.
Speaker 1Right. In your 24 years of bringing AI from the lab to the physical world, what have you learned that other startup founders can can take away?
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 1And I say that about yourself, right? Because if you do another business unit, you're essentially a startup founder again.
Speaker 2I will not be doing another company. This is one public company that's good for me. I'm not that ambitious, I guess. But but do you intend to be building this company for the next century? Right. I think like one of them is that there's just no shortcuts. We believe this from day one and that if we are building something that people's lives depend on, right, if you're driving a 70,000 pound thing thing down the freeway, you need to know that it works and that you build that trust slowly over time. And so we have to be committed to that. We need to be thinking safety first. We need to be building the process. We need to be building the tools that allow us to do that and then grow from there. And it's baked right into our mission. is deliver the benefits of self-driving technology safely quickly and broadly do it safely move as quickly as we can and then think about scale i think that has really served us well um and it's an important part of how i believe we're going to be here for a long term time doing exciting things
Speaker 1yeah it's interesting how safety is so front and center for physical ai less so in a lot of ways or it feels like yeah for um not physical ai like llms right you said on stage which i thought was interesting that like you know you have to focus on um that there's more safety implications for self-driving trucks than there are for llms and i said well i don't know if i agree with that because as you've seen there's been a lot of mental health um poor mental health outcomes that have happened as a result of llms and before that social media but why do you think is it just because you're operating in a in a realm that already has rules of the road
Speaker 2i think it's i think it's a little different than i think it's i think it's more obvious right right that it's clear that there are risks when you are driving a car down the road or driving um a truck down the road the harm that can be done through an llm is uh not as front and center it's not as like cause and effect and it's not as direct right and and i i certainly agree that we're observing harm and uh i'll have to think about how i express this a little bit differently but really when when i think about an llm there at least is a person intervening between the the interaction that happens on the screen and whatever physical interaction happens in the world right and i i talk about the kind of gaff that gemini had back in the day right how do you keep the cheese on your pizza you put glue uh right and and that we all look at that and say it's silly and i don't expect many people would take that at face value and then glue cheese on their pizza right the equivalent and the trust of the pizza is that you put the cheese on your pizza right the equivalent in the truck is if for a moment it decides geez i should make a right turn in the middle of freeway there's no human who can intervene and so yeah i'll try and be more a little more careful how i talk about that distinction but but i i do see one being there that's that's
Speaker 1material yeah well do you have i guess like when we talk about safety and um for self-driving or the ai being safer than a human or a better driver than a human like who gets to decide that and how like is that something that you kind of self-certify or are you working closely with you
Speaker 2know regulators or yeah at the end of the day society gets to decide it right we we have elected officials they create a regulatory environment they create a policy environment and that is the decision about how and where these things should be used on a day-to-day basis we make the decision uh whether we think the product will put on the road is safe uh and we do that using uh what we call a safety case and you can think of this as an explanation for why we think it's safe and it has five core pillars the first is that the vehicle has to be proficient so that means that it drives safely right that it behaves in the way you'd expect the second is it has to be fail safe so it has to understand if something breaks uh and then figure out how to mitigate risk associated with that and be safe uh the third is that it has to be resilient so we have to think about how it might be misused or think about how a cyber attack might impact it and make sure that we're thoughtful about that and responsive to that uh the fourth is that we need to be continuously improving so we need to learn from our experience you know whether it's what we see from others out in the world or we see from our our system behaving on the world or our company operating and be constantly kind of making things better and then the last is that we need to be trustworthy and just kind of on the face value if i tell you the other four things and i'm not trustworthy it doesn't really matter but it's also about how we engage with regulators and policy makers to make sure they're informed and can make informed decisions yeah and so we take those five pillars and we blow that out into about 450 something like that bits of evidence right these are things where we said this is what it means this is why and then when we get all that checked off we say okay yeah we feel good that this is not creating unreasonable risk on the road and that you know frankly i would feel comfortable with my family on the road around it uh and that i feel comfortable that we're not putting other people at unreasonable risk
Speaker 1how much is that like that that feeling of safety based on your ai approach right like so there's um a debate i think in the industry right now between like end-to-end systems and then more structured verify approaches i think that's what aurora is doing so why does that matter more for safety and and for context i believe you know a company like wabi one of your competitors they're doing more of an end-to-end approach and yeah so i'm curious what you think about how that applies
Speaker 2i think it's it is one part of it right and and because there's a like i said there's a lot of things around safety and getting the software right is obviously an important part of it but it's one part of it for us we've taken this approach of verifiable ai and what that means is that we appropriately decompose the problem so that we can understand how the system's behaving so we can have conviction that it's actually working well and is safe uh and so you know one of the major ways we decompose is we take an understanding of the world so what's what's moving around us uh and and in the world around us and how do we react to that and by decomposing that we can actually look at the things that matter and make sure that we're understanding the world correctly right um because if you just have an amorphous blob uh in an end symbol system i don't know why i'm making the decision i am is it because i made a bad decision but i understood what was going on or is it that i didn't understand the world or is it some weird interaction between the two and or something else all together and so we think breaking them apart allows you to actually better understand the system and makes the testing the verification of validation actually possible and some would say okay well you don't need to break it apart you can just have you know kind of what they call heads right these uh these versions you know these outputs from the system that tell you those things yeah the challenge with that is that we're seeing in these reasoning models that the system is complicated enough that it can lie or do two things at once right so it's you know if you take one of these reasoning models it'll tell you an explanation for why it did what it did right what it's really doing is telling you an explanation for what it did what it did that it thinks you will like yes right and that may not actually be uh yeah and i don't even know i don't want to necessarily ascribe a personality to it whether it's dv's or not but it's learnt that that's that's the right way to explain this thing and then it may be coming to that answer in a very different way and so when you think about verifying our system we want to say okay let's not have that be a risk right that it's telling us that it sees the red car there and so it's reacting in this way but in practice it's doing something else right and the complexity of these networks are such that it could very well be and so for us this decompositing of the system is a very important part of the process and i think that's something that's really important and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's something that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process
Speaker 1and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process and i think that's a really important part of the process
Speaker 2yeah i there's a couple that i i get a chance to check in on every once in a while so one of them is serve robotics you mentioned earlier uh i think it's just cool to see like there's this wave of everybody thought oh we'll drive on sidewalks and that'll be way easier and it turns out it's a technically pretty hard yeah you know interacting with people is not easy and then building a real business there has been hard as well and so to see a company that's got these things and the business seems to be starting to work and you know it's kind of fun and cool um and then the other one uh that i think is pretty cool is this company called bedrock robotics uh and they are doing automation for excavation and kind of at the at the construction site yeah um and you know that one there's a couple of people that founded it i've known for a long time and you know worked with in the past and they're good people and and she's kind of cool like i i'm still like there's a part of me that's still like the eight-year-old boy who's like big truck cool excavator cool right and so seeing something where they are um both working with the physical world and doing something that actually is useful uh and like seeing the technology come to work and seeing it with good people doing it that i love that you know you're talking about construction
Speaker 1sites and it's reminding me of a company that i saw i think we wrote about them at tech crunch maybe last year or the year before i can't remember but they their whole thing was we want to help um construction sites be more organized so we're going to put cameras on all the hard hats and with that data we'll help you be more organized and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized so we're going to put cameras on all the hard hats and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized and whatever our goal is we want to help you be more organized and um kind of made it so that it's a little bit obsolete to get out in the field and do that
Speaker 2so our approach i can speak to is you need to do both right right we have some incredible simulation capabilities um but you have to ground the simulation meaning you have to know is this at actually behave is my simulation accurately reflecting the real world yeah um otherwise you're playing a video game yeah and you may be really good at the video game but that you know anyone who's driven a mario kart knows that's quite different than driving a real car yeah uh and and of course these simulations are much more closer than mario kart but if you haven't grounded it you don't know how close they are and so for us there's a set of things that we know our simulation is very good at and we understand the limitations and then there's other things where we go to a test track or we gather data from the real world and we use that both to improve the simulation capability but also because today we don't trust the same that particular part of the simulation for that particular test and so it's an and not an or in my mind got it okay well we're
Speaker 1just about out of time um thank you so much for joining is there anywhere that our listeners can
Speaker 2find us or find you online uh yeah please uh we're at uh aurora.tech uh and even better yet if you actually want to see our trucks in action uh you can go to youtube.com at aurora driver and we live stream our driver's every day uh for i think eight to five central times so nice uh check it out it's it i'll warn you it is super boring uh but we have some good background music really it's not well honestly that's what we want right if you're catching an exciting moment in a big truck like we just don't want that right we want it to be boring and smooth and easy yeah awesome okay well you can find me um
Speaker 1on twitter i'm on linkedin i'm on blue sky um i'm on substack and uh you can find equity on twitter and blue sky at equity pod talk to you next time equity is hosted by tech crunch senior reporters
Speaker 3and produced by theresa locan solo with editing by cal subscribe on youtube or wherever you get your podcasts and find out what's next at techcrunch.com slash events thanks so much for listening and we'll talk to you next time Thank you.
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