Arsenal’s Defensive Masterclass, Martinez Madness & Brighton For The Champions League

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I spoke to Declan Rice after the game yesterday and I asked him about that. How much work goes into working as a unit and also working as a midfielder? All in the protection that you give them when you see him and what he does, what the midfielders do also when one their stop and ball is going into the forwards, two their stop and anything that gets in there, but when you're just going to all of a sudden put throw crosses into the box, that's food and drink for Arsenal's back four, they're so strong, they're so powerful in the air. They get the line of the cross very, very early and that's a skill in itself. So you're not going to beat them on your own, you have to perform as a team and you have to do things as a team because one person is not going to do it specifically and I guess that has been such a strength of Arsenal's now for such a long time. I mean, we all know that if you keep clean sheets like they do, then you are going to get chances throughout the year, throughout the game. That's what Arsenal do there. For me, there's no doubt that they are the best back five, six in World Football, so difficult to play against, so tough, so hard, physical and can play as well. But do you think it's as well, it's the appetite that we've got for it? They enjoy it. Yes. They enjoy defending. It's so strange to see how we do in the game yesterday, I saw you at the ground, didn't you? Yeah. You was working for another broadcaster. I just love. I know the modern day, full back in defenders, what I step out and build up and I get all that sort of stuff, but they absolutely enjoy defending, which is just amazing to see. The way they step up together, the way they drop together, the organisation, and I think what's even more brilliant to see is a fact that cons are come straight into the squad and being so good. I thought was Saliba being missing, and then even in capy eight last season was very good, but Califurus pretty much nailed that left back spot now, timber outstanding again, but you cannot forget about Ben White. Every time Ben White comes in the squad, he had a little bit of a wobble, remember last season in the FA Cup and a photo, but then ever since then, he's been fantastic. So it's not just essentially the four at the back, it's their subs too, who buy into exactly what the manager wants to do, and if they keep performing like that defensively, then they'll win the Premier League again. I suppose the thing you have to bear in mind here, Mike, is it taken absolute full to leave out a couple of the Arsenal defenders and put them on their bench for fantasy, wouldn't it? You know what? I'm done. I know what's coming. I'm done. You know what? I'm sick. I'm sick. To death. I'm sick today. Right. Last week, you want to say, it had kind of fury, 50% again, or 75%, and I'm thinking, has he got a knock that I don't know about? So I thought, let me just put, I took a gamble. I played my wild card, and he sat, look, good, his move on the zare, but I kept your air for it. You know, let me give myself a little bit of a, what's the word I'm looking for? Some kind of glimmer of hope. I guess a little bit of a glimmer, I just a little bit of a glimmer. I thought, you know what? Just in case. We have a safety net. The safety net I was looking for. Raya. And then I took out Call of Fury, and I took out Conzer, and I got 18 points, gas, 18 points on my bench. I'm done with the game. I've had enough. I've had enough. I'm retiring. I'm retiring. I just got a note from her saying, Mike, you need to watch the press conferences where it was declared for Call of Fury, so it was too late. It was time to do another thing, I can't watch everything, I'm watching football. I watched 10 games a week, guys, at least 10 games on YSKR, I'm watching them. I got time to do press conferences, I take, I take my information from Premier League, I check it Saturday morning, he's everyone fit, and he said, oh, there's a bit of problem with Call of Fury. Don't take the risk. I take him out. And then he goes and gets the points. I've had enough. I'm done. I'm done. I do, because I guess in terms of being a forward, you've seen and played against some brilliant backfords. I mean, we go back to Arsenal, Adams, Ball, Dixon, Winderburn, Seaman, The Invincibles, Chelsea when they had those 25 clean sheets in that season, the best ever wasn't it, 15 goals they conceded. How does this Arsenal, and I know they shift around and I know they change players, but in terms of ability wise, what do you think? Chelsea did it for a few years, didn't they? I mean, they were so good defensively. I think generally it's the two central defenders of the ones that they very rarely change. It's very difficult to compare different eras, but I suppose nowadays there are bigger squads and more rotation. There wouldn't have been much of that back. It was pretty much a very consistent back for. But this one, if they keep going, I mean, the interesting question for me here is what is Arsenal's best back for now, because Saliva has been out obviously all this season. Does he get back in? Because I think Cons has been absolutely outstanding. And he's obviously new to this back for. So maybe in a year or two's time, they might have a different back for that we can compare to the one that obviously had Saliba in it. And does he get straight back in? I suspect not until someone at the back starts making a few mistakes and they don't seem to make many mistakes, but I don't know, which one do you think how? Carvalho and John Terry was pretty strong. I mean, Terry and Carvalho would take some being, but I tell you what, those two yesterday cons are in Gabrielle, they're solid, they're tough, they're aggressive, aren't they? I mean, I was sat like three or four yards from where Michael was sat and I was just next to Artetta and how all that staff are at them to be as aggressive and as quick, it was brilliant to see again, because you don't sit there very often. You might forget how aggressive it is actually on the touch, like how quickly they are. And it was those two at the back for Arsenal up there, they'd take some getting by those two. They were just though, they were fantastic. Just to add to that though, I don't think you can compare. And I think if you have to compare, I think you've got to go with Chelsea. Look at the strikers back then that Chelsea had to face. So yes, the games moved on and we love the modern game, but look at the strikers back then and especially 442, like what they had to deal with. If you look at what Arsenal had to deal with yesterday, you got ESAC really, you got back all those who's coming into it and will get there at some say, but it's not too upfront way having to deal with the physical presence. Everyone talks about systems and styles of play, but back then, I remember when I first broke in at Man City and I had people like Jason Roberts to contend, it was just a beast at John Karoo, those sort of players were, yes, they might not have the ability going forward as what the players have now, but that physical presence was different back then. And that's what the Chelsea boys in that era had to deal with. So I would say physically for sure, I think that Chelsea defence had it a little bit harder. 15 goals, considered that Chelsea defence. Unbelievable. 13, 38 goals, 15 all season. Let me ask you one question, as a defender, is it easier to play? play against two up top like it used to be. So let's say a 4-4-2, where you've got two cyclists and they try and run in the channels and some go, one go, short, one goes on. Or is it more difficult now where you've just got one central striker and two wide players that are not quite wingers but they're not quite central strikers that drift in, say like Mo Salah, but there are three altogether rather than two. What's the more difficult for a defender? Ooh, it's very good question, guys. In Arsenal's system, I would say it's easy to play now so playing against a free because the really top 10. But back then, I think playing against a, if your team wants to play on a front foot and essentially your man versus man in a 4-4-2, I think it's harder to play against that because you get more isolated but the way Arsenal play, everyone's tucked in timbers in, califioris in, other ball, and then you've got rice and Bruno and even older guard drops in, but not only that, you've got my wake when you play and Zolli's tucked in really as well. So you're not really getting the opportunity. If it was money, seller and femenia, now that would be difficult to play against because of the movement. So what happened with that? You wouldn't know really what to do because for me, they used to take defenders away and the money used to come into that space. So that would be difficult. But in terms of, I think it all depends on the system, guys, I think equally can be as hard, but I feel it depends what the manager wants. So in Arsenal's side and right now, it'd be easier to play because you're getting more protection, I think. - I've got a list of strikers from that era of 2004. 2005 Prime Marino, Prime Chelsea's defense. People like Tyrian Rhee, Andy Johnson, Jimmy Floyd, Jumaine DeFoe, I had a good Johnson, Chelsea again. Peter Krauch, Andy Cole, Yucubo, Robbie Keane, Robbie Fowler, Wayne Rooney. - This is what I mean. Look at the deck. - Tim K. Hill, come on, come on guys. - Film right, Philips. Emile Hesky was still around there. - Mike Hesky, Tom. - And he dins your chuk-a-mine in there. - Were you still going there now? - Come on, that's pretty well. - Were you still going in 2004-5? - Yeah, we're tied in 2006. I mean, I was on my last legs. - Well, exactly, that's why I was still going back. - I was still going fishing in 20-a season. I mean, come on. - Fair point now. - Micah says 50-a-20 this season is a world beer. - We'll get to that. Don't you worry about that. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. We've got plenty of time for that. - Micah, Consular Saliba. - No, I would still say Saliba. Don't let's not forget. Saliba won the title last season and got to the Champions League final last season. And he was consistent. I think I said last year he was the best defender in Europe. So as it stands, 'cause what have done, you have to go off the evidence that would say, Saliba, right now, bought consa. - Brilliant piece of business. And I remember J.T. called it early. He said, if Saliba gets an injury or when he was out injured, I don't think Saliba will get back in because consa is that good. And obviously, it was with my villa and it coached him and all that sort of thing. And I thought, ooh, if J.T. is saying that, it must have a little bit of substance. And I don't say I didn't agree with you. I thought, let me see. But he's been proven right at the moment because he's been that good. - I think Consular is probably ultimately a better defender. - I think Saliba's got the odd mistake in him. - Okay, that's probably fair. - That's fair, that's fair. - Yeah, that's fair. - And Consular, I've not really seen that yet. I mean, everyone's got a mistake in them, but you know what I mean? It probably makes fewer mistakes. But he's only been, you know, but he was brilliant in the World Cup. Consular. - Consular can also switch to right back as well if needed for Arsenal, but they've got plenty. - Not any more now. - Tippers there. - Well, it's a Tisbach not any more. - Yeah. - Although they had a lot of space down the left hand side, Liverpool in the first half. I mean, he had just did that at half time. They were causing Barclay was causing him a lot of trouble down the left. He got the crew crosses in. - Did you see that tactic that was doing though? It was really interesting. I did it a little bit on a match of the day last night, but we didn't have in depth because we didn't have that much time to do it. But there was purposely trying to do that. You see, Neonney was sort of going into a back free. So Madwiki didn't really know what to do, which one to press. And in the first half, he got caught out so many times. I once, earlier in the second half, where he was sort of following Neonney and then Barclay got a load of space. And then he should see on the sideline. You know, actually being on the bench because I was sat mostly in Romali GV playing career, and I was like, (laughing) - Good. The information, and I was telling the information that the guys were saying because I feel like it's private. I feel like I was privy to information that I shouldn't really know or should be hearing. But what I would say is it was interesting to see, there are a lot of, when things were working and things wasn't happening, and he was constantly saying to Kirk, go, go, go, and it's almost like, we've got a tactic. There's so much space. We've left what I call a 1v1. So him to drive inside for you to take the outside and cross it in. And there was a couple occasions in the first half where it happened really well. But it's almost like Kirk has lost a bit of confidence. And I know he's not played well this season. I need been fantastic for Bournemouth in the past. But it's almost like they had to keep telling how good he was because he'd lost a bit of confidence, which was a little bit strange to see, really, because someone who's so good on the ball going forward needed the manager to keep telling him and sort of, I don't know, having to give him confidence, which was strange. - Micah, just before we get on to Liverpool, did you, I don't know whether, did you find the fourth official as I was knowing as I did? - I mean, one thing, get out of the way. I can't see the game. Why are you stood there? - What is going on? - And his attitude and his behaviour towards the fourth benches when someone stood up, I mean, he spent, oh, please, can you sit down? - He's like a thought he's a fucking headmaster. - He's like a star. - He's like a star. - Honestly, my pipe down here are fourth official. - A pipe down here are fourth official. - Oh, he was doing it, he was looking right. - Yeah. - And looking left and just like, sit down, sit down. You know, I was just like, what is going on here? Is this pointless? Like, he's a good, four official as well. I know the guy. But I just feel like. - I don't know, Micah. You just sent the words. He's a good person. - He is. - What does the fourth official do? Apart from tell the guy, he's a good referee. And he's a good, he's a good lineman. That's what I meant. But his job there, I don't understand what he's doing. All he's there for is to take abuse. So, I was talking about what he's saying. I think he almost was quite performative, like he has to do that. Because otherwise, he's just going to get hampered. He's the most ridiculous job ever. I mean, this side, to the right, Iriola and my old mate, Tommy Ulfick was on the bench, he's one of the coachings at my, and every two minutes, he's going up to him. And on the other side, I tend to wave his arms up just like, what is going on here? - No, I was the same. - What were on the officials? - ESAC penalty? - Or a shirt? - Yeah, it was a penalty. - Seriously, I knew the line that we're going to come out with, because I said it. I said, they're going to come out and see it half time. It wasn't sustained home. - It's sustained home. - Honestly, it was. - Is that in the rules? - Well, yes, sustained home. - Yes, how long sustained? - Yes. - What is it matter whether someone pulls a shirt for one second or five seconds, if ESAC, like he was, a millimeter's off heading that ball. One tugging him has to alter his stride, therefore, he's cost them a gold score opportunity. And the reason Timber pulls his shirt for it, 'cause he's out of position, and he knows he's done. - Yeah. - So he had to stop him, and he did clearly. I mean, the other two were not penalties, but that one, it has to be a pull on his shirt. Come on. - Gaz, the other smart one. Explain to us, sustained holding. - Me? - Yes, 'cause you're very articulate. - Well, I think sustained means that you hold on to the shirt for at least 25 minutes, so on this occasion, it was just like a two seconds, one, two. So it was 23 minutes, and for sure. This is why I've always said it can't work, and it's present for beer, because they have to judge, is what's enough? Is it sustained long enough as a hold to justify? - Yeah, that's rubbish. - I mean, it's nonsense. It's either a foul, or it's not a foul. And then is it serious enough to turn over? It did some workable, 'cause sometimes it's a clear and obvious. - This is the issue where referees make and the rules are the laws. Referees are deciding these nonsense. Come on, it's a pull of a shirt. It doesn't matter whether it's a second or five. You stopped him from getting to the ball. Clear pull, penalty, simple. - Totally agree. As a striker, what you know when you're playing against best defenses. Do you do anything? differently or I mean I used to say it's important the service is really good in those circumstances. You've got to get onto your wingers to get the ball in early so you can make your runs and then keep making your runs against the better defenders. But it's not all down to you and that's why sometimes people you know they'll go well early in Harland you know you don't really get any touches in the game and do it because amazingly he's trying to wait for the moment to make his runs in the area so you are reliant as a striker on people getting the ball in the box Liverpool had a lot of crosses particularly in the first half almost 20 it was in the late teens and there was not a lot of movement in the box the one time there was the sat gets in front of me gets these shirt pulled back but there were a lot of really good deliveries in there which the Liverpool players didn't get on the end of aside from McAllister's head of which you wouldn't have wanted it to fall to anyone else because he's so good normally in those positions and under those circumstances but you are reliant as a striker what you've got to do is if you're not getting much of a look and you've got to persist yeah I think that's the important thing persist in making your runs persist in making your runs and eventually a ball of commitment which is hard when you're not when the balls are not coming in or where you want them to come in I thought the Arsenal defence dealt with the ball there were much better the Arsenal defence particularly second half and Liverpool's forwards I was really disappointed in Liverpool's forwards actually because considering what they've paid considering the ability and thinking come on all right you're up against a brilliant defence but there's a reason why paid over a hundred million for you guys I thought verse was poor again I didn't I'd be struggled physically what's going on there guys obviously back all as a good player we wouldn't we wouldn't say at least say or let mean the dream but in terms of how they want to play and what you would want now with essentially a four to three one you know you've got gap up on the right which is always a little bit different because he normally plays on the left but what do you want to see more from these guys is it and I still learning off each other is it because the manager wants them to press high how do you get the best out of these these forwards well I thought there were signs of improvement before yesterday's game I thought they would just start under one or two little things that you could notice little flicks and tricks and understanding of each other's game I was thinking okay that's fine let's let's see what you've got against the the big boys the best defence and I wasn't impressed with any way to be honest I mean yep my call has to had that absolute sitter but other than that they huffed and puffed and they never got any joy really as I said I think Vert's is really struggling physically and he's with the pace of the Premier League esac it didn't it wasn't a lot from him and also a bar call I think come on it's like a lot of the time I'm thinking you're moving the ball and perhaps crossing it maybe the easy way out when when someone's as mean as Arsenal are you looking for a bit of magic that's why you pay the big big money for one of them to undo that lock you know for one of them to to produce that piece of brilliance that that you're waiting for and there wasn't any of that I didn't think from from Liverpool yesterday particularly second off and I just ask you guys quickly on on on Vert's because I think you didn't go over the top like I did at the start because I've obviously watched him from from a from a young age and and he's talent is just remarkable but why is it not working what what what's physicality in the pace of the game I think no but I always thought I'll that ease his brain and his touch was quick enough to play in the Premier League you know so I don't understand it and like you talk about the big players and I'm just thinking when's Vert's going to have these big moment you know in a big game and be decisive and he just you just waiting for it to come and it's just it's just not arriving you know I agreed agreed yes I said it before the game yesterday it said right they we have seen the odd bits of brilliance from him there's no doubt about it and there's there's he's he's got incredible skill we have to do on a more regular basis and he has to do it in the games like that like yesterday I've watched him a lot now as all of us have I think obviously it's probably slightly tougher than Bundesliga who's playing a very good team at the time and I think the Bundesliga is just very strongly and there's some great teams in there obviously but I don't think you come across strong teams every week like you're doing the Premier League there's much greater depth in the Premier League and I think trying to assess it it is slightly baffling because he was too perv in that and we all expected great things I've a massive deliver pull as did he probably himself but I think the mind plays plays games with you as well and the mental strength for me is is just as important as ability technically you've got to have both I don't know his mind but is his confidence drained a bit we know important confidence is it's now over a season so I've just cut him some flat weight for the second season with some players they just ultimately for some reason don't go on and improve I mean he might be like that it might be the style about football it might be the physicality it's it's really hard to know unless you know someone really well you know his personality his character whether he's strong enough mentally but you know technically he's generally very good but it's he's not really making a huge difference to Liverpool so it's he's a slightly baffling one I'm with you Mike I thought it was going to be an absolute revelation in the Premier League and it's surprisingly but it's football you never know with players they can go suddenly off the boil that there's and then sometimes they can come back and sometimes they don't now I wish him well and I hope he hope he finds that success but the longer this run without providing decent numbers both in terms of assists and goals and overall play the harder it will be for him I worry for him a bit they've spent a lot of money on him as well whether that's weighed on his shoulders I I don't know whether players actually really do think about that when they've been transferred again I come back to the the mental strength side of things and ultimately that is it's a very powerful thing you mind he's just got to be careful I think there's a good point in terms of you've got to be in the right place mentally and maybe he's not too confident out of him not playing really well but he's not doing the things he's supposed to be good at that's what's worrying me in the game where okay if you're a playmaker or someone can keep the ball and keep ticking over but he's making the wrong decisions even with that so the ball came to him in the game once you're thinking just turn out and we're talking about a simple ball or whatever but he's giving the ball away and I'm just thinking what what's that what's happened to hurts and it's even harder now because the manager wants a team that compress he likes Naomi as as you've seen obviously Graven Bertras was on the bench he likes McAllister he's been good this season but at some point Graven Bertras will come back into the team but he's also going to bring Subosli so if you're looking to be a high energy team then he's probably going to end up on the bench because Subosli will probably play in the number 10 which then becomes a little bit worrying so I'm not writing him off just yet not not yet but it needs to improve massively right now I know I would say also I mean I know you're very critical of Liverpool's performance Alan particularly I thought in the first half that looked a bit more like a roler side I think that I think the energy inside of things was really good they got a lot of crosses in and under normal circumstances you know you'd score from one or two of those even against the side as good as Arsenal so I actually thought in that there's a bit more to that performance than I've seen perhaps in previous performances season I just he's brought back the high energy high octane football perhaps that clock did don't forget took clopper while as well although he didn't have them didn't have the players when he first took over so I think it's worth being patient with iraola because I you could see something I think they probably ran out of steam after about an hour and made changes I look at their squad I think it's pretty pretty good overall even though you know one or two of the big name signs haven't worked yet but it's been one of them but there comes a point when you've got that kind of squad depths where you just can have to say well you might have cost $130 million or something but I'm sorry this kid on Gamal is quite good yeah and he's getting game I was very impressed with Neonie you've just mentioned him I thought he's got a little bit of and maybe again it we've got a Spanish coach at Liverpool he's got a bit of that kind of Spanish he holding a little bit a little bit of a pivot kind of player that we don't control control in it yes he stats here with pretty impressive mica he completed 96% of his passes in today's match I know that can be misleading sometimes with a lot of side cards still going to do it still got to keep it 53 out of 55 complete the highest against an Arsenal side since Fabinho in November 2021 so very encouraging I think signs for for a young player what what was in 19 I do I do like him I like his spatial awareness I like his calmness I like the way tactically when the manager wanted him to go into a back three. That's probably where a lot of his passes came from into the 90% but he's picking the right pass. But also not that. He was told to press as well. So one minute he was going into the back line, into that free. And then when the ball went to a curkage or a bar call, he was having to get right up and press. So it looks like he's got that energy. But it's nice to see a different type of player. You know when we talked about Rio, yes, he's tricky. He wouldn't be eyeing, he entertains. But it's nice to see a young player playing with his mind as well than a little bit of control. So I totally agree with you guys. I think Liverpool, but inconsistent one week. I think they'll they're very good next to it's up. And I think it'll be like the season. But I think Liverpool will be finishing 456. I think that's where they are. And yeah, there are signs that he's getting to get them to do what he wants to do. Yeah, I think it'll be 456. OK, let's take a little breather there. We'll be back. I'm very sure. This episode is brought to you by Hotels.com. You know what's better than getting a good win, getting another one straight after it. With the all new 10 for £100 benefit from Hotels.com, members that stay 10 eligible nights can get £100 back in Hotels.com cash to use on a future booking. Work trips, weekends away or longer holidays, all those stays can quickly add up to 10. But the wins don't stop there. Hotels.com members can also save up to 20% instantly on select hotels just by being a member. So you get value from your booking now while your stays count towards a future reward. But once win twice, booktodayathotels.com, available to UK customers only, members 18-plus-chotels.com site for details. We just moved into our new house, and I didn't realize just how close we were to the neighbors. That's when my friend told me about Blinds.com. Blinds.com isn't a medication. But it can improve how you feel about your home. Customers who shop at Blinds.com experience excellent customer service from consultation to installation. Side effects include increased privacy and better sleep. Talk to your partner today and see of Blinds.com is right for you. Welcome back to the rest of the football with Anna Shira, Michael Richards and me, Gary Linnika, let's turn our attention. Well, Manchester United again. I mean, we've said a lot about Manchester United. And once again, there's a bit of controversy with Martinez. And as he got his second yellow car, given away a penalty, as he walked off the pitch, there was a very deliberate effort on Michael Carrick's behalf, not to look at him at all. So that problems continue for Manchester United. Even though I actually thought they played quite well in the first half. Not quite well. They were excellent guys, wouldn't they? Do you think it was really good combination? I thought the only said quite good because there's a very important part of football. To make it very good, you have to finish the chances that come along. But yes, Michael, interactically, energy, everything. What did we say a game of two half? If we say that the first half, they were excellent. Father, the finish. And that would have been, what would have been exceptional, if we would have had a couple of other finishes with Dale Amand, wouldn't we? But yes, I would agree with you. I thought, run United, you know when you're looking at performances and you're going through a bad time and you're like, you're trying to pick the positives out of the game and you're like, there's not many there, there's not many. Actually, if you look at the first half, there should have been two, maybe even three. No, no. Or maybe three. When I met Mr. Fuze, you said in Bruno, Mr. really good. Not that he'd normally put away. Yeah, so you have to give him a little bit of credit. But then it is not a minute game, isn't it? And then sort of all went downhill in the second half. And I feel a little bit sorry for Martinus. I do. Because he came out. Really? He came out and he tried to give an honest assessment of what was going on. Are you talking a few weeks ago on each? A few weeks ago when I'm talking about it, it wanted more players and the behind the scenes I've got to take a little bit more responsibility. And I think that takes balls to do that. I didn't really see the the the angle way we're saying it was against his teammates. I don't think it was against his teammates. I just think he was saying we need more numbers to build on last season. That's it, we're going to chat briefly. Yeah, but it was sort of a lot of people was going to the angle right. He's throwing his teammates under the bus. And I get that, but I didn't think that was the case. But then it comes out. And then you're the one to talk. But if you talk, you've got to play well. And unfortunately, you come off on one of the games at half time. And then it goes and gets sent off again. It's almost like you try to do the right thing. You try to back your team. But unfortunately, you're the problem at the moment because you're not playing well enough. And when he's fit, he's probably running out. It's best center off. So I feel sorry for the fact that he's tried to, you know, come out there and put his chest down and say, yes, I'm ready for the fight. I want to talk, I'm frustrated. We talk about interviews and players not giving anything. He was emotional. He cares. I liked a bit of that. This is a World Cup winner, by the way. And he tried to stand up for his teammates. But ultimately, on the pitch, the last couple of games is not being good enough. So that's why I feel sorry for him. And not in terms of his performance. The last couple of games. All last couple of games. I just, I just feel as though. You're not being watching, man, you're not. You're not. It's all season, no. No, but him. When he's been, when he's fit, Martinez, and that's one of the problems as well, he's not being fit enough. What is fit? The Arab better side with him in it. It's just this season is not being that great. Is that fair? I don't know how you can protect him and feel sorry for him after what he's done. I mean, he's left. You know, the manager is about to lose his job. The club is in turmoil. The noise around them is as loud as it has been for years. And he thinks it's a good idea to get a yellow card and then do that on the pitch. I mean, Michael must be thinking, what the hell? I mean, come on, you're an experienced center off. I need everyone together to deal with it. I need all my experience. I need everyone pulling in the same direction. Yeah, Martinez thinks it's a good idea to go and dive in like that and get into the yellow card and give it a penalty. I mean, I'm going to go from a slightly different angle. I don't think it was like anything deliberate even though it looked it. I think what's happening is he had a moment of panic because he's lost his man. He's lost his man and he's going, where is he? And there he is. And from that point, and he didn't look at the ball at all. And as the ball comes over, he's running towards him. He's just obviously just trying to block him off, which we see from every corner every time. But he went in with. I don't think he deliberately went to try and do him with his arm. I think he's just gone in there. His arm's lifted up and he's blocked him. I don't think he deliberately gone out of his way to foul him on purpose. I just think he's got himself in a bad position and he's at a moment of panic. But either way, it's very bad defending. Very bad defending. I don't think you can say, well, he deliberately did that because 99 times out of 100, there's blocks and pools and pushes and jobs in the penalty box at corners anyway. So, but, you know, everyone's saying, well, he's let Michael Carrick down. He should. People even talking about getting him out of the club now. You know, young footballers make mistakes. We'll do. We've all done it. He's at a howler there. But I think there's a. For me, there's a slight overreaction. Yes, I think he completely fucked up and he knows that. But was there anything beyond it, anything deliberate, intentional? I don't think so. If it was a youngster, he'd perhaps understand more, but he's a World Cup winner. He's got incredible experience. He knows the pressure, the club or under, and the amount of. Well, football as a youngster's. Oh, yeah. I wish, compared with those. Very true. But no, it's like, it was a moment of madness and cost of madness. It wasn't exactly what I think it was. It was just a moment of. He just lost control slightly. But, you know, I did he do it deliberately to fuck Michael Carrick over, of course. Yeah, but I do agree with Al in terms of your experience, World Cup winner. He shouldn't even really be in that position. He should be the one organising, shouldn't he? So I get it from the football point of view. And when you're going through a difficult time, you want your big Carrick to step up, don't you? Yeah, I agree totally agree. And he didn't step up. So I understand the frustration of money and I had fans because you're going through this little spell and you're thinking, "Yes, you've got someone who's got so much heart." And what they call him, the butcher, don't they? Because he's just. When he's on it, he's really on it. But he just, yeah, he was mistimed. Wasn't it ill-discipline at the moment in time? terms of his performances, but I agree with you guys, I don't, he sort of missed his man. It didn't mean to do it. It won't switched on and his latest team down, which builds more pressure on on Carrick essentially. I'm doing the game tomorrow night, man, you know, at the Roma, who caught commentators. Is that, is that you know, is it, is it, but baby, because I'm booking the flight to Rome. So it better be at man, you know, you know, Alan, Alan, man, you know, it's a relegation battle. Yeah. What, Alan, stop your nonsense. Their fourth bomb. How can you not see that? Well, let me get the table up because I'm sick of it. You're getting all excited because you've seen a good 45 minute, you've seen a good 45 minute. So do you think, oh, here we go. Your reaction, very, look, it's the same with commentary. What is commentary? Oh, commentary. They're down, they're down after two games. Look at commentary now. Commentary ahead of man, you know. Leica, you've just accused Alan of being reactionary. You just left two awesome defenders out, you fancy two. I mean, we can't get any more reaction when you're not. I'm reacting. I'm reacting. I'm reacting to nine games that I've witnessed this season and saying, yeah, they are, they've been that bad. Okay. No, what I would say, and my point was, look, there might be flirty, when I say, they could be five points from 10th all the way down to 17th at the end of the, so you know that, it could be tight. But you know, they've got seven points in all the way up until 10th. It's 11 points. There's only four points in it, so that's why I don't believe they're in a relegation battle. I think they've got enough quality. How many points are off the bottom? Well, the two points off the bottom, hey, you always look up, guys, you always look up. Yeah. You always look up. You know, that's, that's a very good point. There you are. Femps, you're awful. What about Chelsea? I'm really impressed with Esteveau, he's been patient, he's had to wait for his opportunity this season, and he's certainly given Javier Lanzar a nice problem. How does he play? He's got a lot of talent in forward positions. Obviously, he sort of persists in with a false nine at present rather than, I mean, I know he played in midweek in the carabal, but rather than play well back. But you know, they came back and they were much better in the second half, brilliant goal from Rogers as well. He was brilliant, Esteveau, who's absolutely outstanding. Yeah, and he has, I mean, when Pedro's back in, he's got, he's got some job in terms of trying to get ahead of those three and where does he play him, but talent wise, ability wise, he's brilliant, isn't he? Got, he's so exciting with the ball. Football's such a strange thing, isn't it? Because if money and I take them chances to a free and a full staff, then we're talking about something completely different, but they're stuck in there and then they've got the quality to hurt you. And Cole Palmer's at it, when Rogers is at it, when Esteveau's at it, it's, yeah, they're always going to score goals. I think for Chelsea now, even though they've got a clean sheet, money, they've got a man sent off, they need to be more stable at the back. They'll look a little bit too easy still to play against. That's my one. Because again, talking about reactioner over there, Alan, not the fighting for the league. Chelsea, oh, they are challenges for the league is what he said after pod number three of this season. And now, look, they can't defend, come on, just have a little bit of ballad today, don't go too early. He's all I'm saying. Here's a question. What about the standard of the league this year? I mean, last year I thought was pretty poor. What about this year? I thought it started very well, but I just, I'm not, I'm not, some games, I'm not sure. I think it's so tactical now, where at times it become very boring. But for me, as a defender, watching Arsenal, I absolutely love it because I'm looking at the positions and the spaces and all that sort of stuff, the out of defending. But some games can be quite boring. Did you see the comments? Was it Roberto Badgeo? Anyone see those comments? No, I didn't see these comments. What did you say? He might have said it a while ago, but it got regurgitated and I saw it on social media, but he said modern football is increasingly dominated by the coaches, their narcissism, their tendency to put themselves above the team and their players. The players seem to be controlled by remote, every youngster has to move like a robot. Football is imagination, not geometry. I think, I'll go back to my thing in the Premier League. I'm, yeah, I'm not, I don't think it's been a great season in terms of ability wise. There's a lot of tactics and defensively, as we said about Arsenal, that's a skill in it's in itself, but I don't think, you just said it before there, Mike, a Chelsea in the position there and I don't think a great Liverpool, I don't think a great city lost two on the spin. I mean, Brighton, obviously, the standout Brighton and Bradford and Bournemouth and they are having fabulous starts this season and doing great work again, but I don't know, I'm not convinced it's a great season yet, are you? I think it's, I think it's, we're not seen quite as many teams play very defensively and sit in back. I mean, obviously, sometimes you have to, and you play a low block yet on the countertack. I think we've seen slightly less of that, a lot more teams playing with a, trying to play with a high energy and high press, but yeah, I think, I don't, you say some mixed bag and don't forget, we're coming off the back of a, of a World Cup, there's a lot of players to find in their way after, after playing deep into the summer. So, I think there's been some very good game. I think football is always like this. You have little patties where it's not that good and then, you know, I remember, in my day, you know, it's, it's when it was probably the most defensive time football because, you know, Italian football, that was the way and everyone was copying that sort of thing like they do with the Spanish now, but, and it was all a little bit defensive back then, but it, it just goes in ebbs and flows and you get some good games, you know, I've, I've quite enjoyed a lot of games this season, I think I don't know whether the statistics show that they've been more goals or fewer goals, but I think what you mentioned there, Brian, they have been the revelation at the start of this season and, and yesterday, third in the league and people, you know, we've often seen teams, I think make really good progress at the start of the season and then it dwindles a little bit, but looking at bright, I always look at the goal difference under those circumstances, but Brian's goal difference is way better than anyone else is. They've kept more clean sheets than than anybody else and you look at those, those two stats together and that shows you that this might be a team that can maintain their excellent start to the season, how far they can go, I don't know, but I think they can challenge realistically for a champion's league spot. You want to consider what potentially could happen to Man City, if they hang around there long enough, then you just, you just never know, do you, but there's no doubt they have been some of the football out there playing, they've beaten Arsenal convincingly, your great result on Saturday against, against City again and it was deserved by the way, because I know the keeper was brilliant for Bourbon, but they could have went too nearly up just after half time, Mr Big Chance, so there wasn't, there was no fluke there for Brighton, they were outstanding. Yeah, City, I mean, like you said, City had chances, didn't they, Brisbane was, they had a lot of chances, but yeah, City knew what City do, essentially control a lot of the game, but when they don't score, when the game's open, they just concede a lot of opportunities don't they? And it must be hard, I was trying to think about this, on the pep, played a certain way. I'm constantly banging the drum saying, why are they left themselves so exposed? It's the same with Morescar, but, but maybe when he just on the ball so much, he's just more liable to that kind of course, that's normal, but I just thought that would have been sorted, he talked about Roddry, Boardy played, didn't he, Anderson, didn't have one of his best games the other day, there was times in the games where he pressed too or he dropped a little bit too deep, but he's going to get them games and bright, you have to give credit to Brighton, they were just a very good side and took the opportunity when it came. I think the one thing I'd say about, from my experience of watching Morescar's career is that he's very much of a tinker man, and it's work for him, you have to say, generally, it's certainly work for him at Leicester B, he was always shuffling and juggling, and he did the same at Chelsea quite a lot, and now he's doing the same for Manchester City, can that work against them or will it prove to be a strength? The last key out as well, didn't he? Yeah, it was Kusanoff and Diaz. Yeah, he said very much, he does, obviously they're fighting on many fronts, so you have to rotate to a degree, but he said it didn't he after the, I think it was after a Champions League game, he's going to leave a few players out, which he did in the subsequent game, so he does like to tinker a lot, whether that's something that he feels like he needs to keep everybody happy, I don't know, but will that go against him? I think for this game though, if you're thinking how to play the high energy, the really good, if you go back to the PSG game where Cherokee played, and essentially you could see there's play with a man less off the ball, so I understand at times why he wouldn't play Cherokee. But then Foden, I thought Foden would have been given that opportunity, you know, especially at home. At home, you're supposed to be on the front, you think in Turkey or a Foden, yes, he was on the front foot in terms of what we've witnessed, and Jay and Dockoo, but the miss someone sort of creating that little bit of a moment or a little bit of genius or something, and I've just thought, without Foden or Turkey playing in that game, that they've lacked a bit of quality sort of between the lines. I'm not sure that Juggling Your Team constantly really works, from my experience of watching a lot of football over many decades, the teams that do the best, the ones where you're buying large, you pretty much know the starting lineup and the best team. Now obviously in these days and the squad depth is much bigger, but I just think, you know, stop starting playing people in different positions constantly. I mean obviously you get some ever presence like Juggling that will always play if he's fit, but they don't seem to have many of those, they've got a lot of, and I just think whether the tinkering works or not, we'll see, we'll see over the course of the season, but from my experience, the teams that are, you know, the teams that are really successful, you're buying large, you know, the basic spine at least. Even from your own personal point of view, you'd want to play as much as possible, you hate to be playing one week and left out the next and then blitz, yeah, from that point of view, no. Before we go, a little look down at the bottom of the table. Oh, well, well, we're not going just yet. Why you ain't quiet? Jackson, let's talk about Villa, baby, another go for Nicholas Jackson. He was a good goal as well, eh? What a finish. What a finish. What a finish. Interesting. Interesting, I love. Have you, you know, we had our conversation. Mike, are you exaggerating? No, I can't believe you. I just, either way, it's just nice, it's nice to call something, when everyone's giving you a bit of a stick, oh, he's not that good, he's just, I was like, no, I've seen it. If you could just start scoring, which in fairness, you both said, my point was more around his overall game and he did need to score more goals, but now he is scoring more goals, which is good to see. No, it is. I mean, he's got a lot of abilities. We've talked about it many times this season on the pod and mainly because you've brought him up every time he scored. Yes, every time he scored, I'm going to bring him up every single time. So get it in the script, H, Max, get it in the script. One thing we talked about over all this season, but it's not easy at present to go look at the bottom of the table and there's, because normally after we get close to 10 games in the season, there's normally a couple of scenes that have hardly got any points whatsoever. But that's not really happening, even commentary, they've won three of the last four league games, they're having a really good run. I say, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, Frank, I'm with you. I'm telling you, everyone will say you're going to go down. The evidence from last season told me that he was going to stay up and now it looks, no, it looks a lot better. I'm not going to be saying you're going to step, but yes, it looks a lot more convincing. So come on, Frank. Well, none of the bottom three include any of the promoted clubs, which is says something. The bottom three Crystal Palace, Forest and Sunderland, Palace and Sunderland obviously playing in Europe, and I think they've found that difficult. Sunderland fans has always stressed this season on you now. I have Sunderland fans gone too early. We was all, tell between our legs, what we're saying, they're not going to go down this season. Come on, Sunderland. We want you to stay up, but you've got to do a lot better because you're not putters on blast in the season, you had the little laugh, a little laugh last season, you put all of your social media and all that sort of stuff and we apologise and we backed you to stay up. So we need a little bit more from Sunderland. Yeah. I think the one that's perhaps surprising is Forest down there at the moment. I think with, with Glasen has gone there and he was, he did one of his very odd press conferences, didn't he, talking about his position as well again there. Did you see the chances they missed, Forest? Some of the chances, oh goodness me, yeah, massive problem for him. Yeah, delapsed, not really been the answer so far, a bit like he was at the same Chelsea as well. So they need to improve there and we all know the owner hasn't got a lot of patience with coaches. Crystal Palace, we predicted it might be a difficult season for them as well. But in the last 20 years, no club sitting on as many points as Hollandips, which have at this stage of a Premier League season has gone on to be relegated. So we could actually see all three promotes, I'd stay up. Interesting, yeah, still early days though in it, still early days, leaves are getting sucked in a letter 11, we need a lot of draws of leads, I need a couple more wins from leads to be honest. Have you ever happened four times in the history of the Premier League that all three promote teams have stayed up? There's a good chance of it then this year, isn't that the way they've gone, started. Yeah, absolutely. Let's call it a day there because I've got a leaf blower right, so I'm a front door with the sounds of it and we know what we think of leaf blurs. That's it for this episode of The Rest is Football. Goodbye from me. Goodbye from me. Goodbye from me. Have a great week. Afternoon glare totally ruined my watch party for the big game, that's when my buddy recommended Blinds.com with custom window treatments made to fit your style, space and budget. Customers who shop at Blinds.com experience to overwhelming satisfaction. Shop Black Friday all month long at Blinds.com, don't miss huge deals dropping every week. Our refrigerated trucks keep your items cool while our associates are committed to getting every detail right, carefully selecting and packing your order with care. 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