Army Captures Live Alien [You Won't Believe What Happens Next]

I can't think of a crash retrieval case with live aliens better than Virginia. Every single bit of testimony from separate people from all over the area all fits perfectly. It's like putting together a piece of puzzle, right? I think if this were a murder case you'd have more than enough evidence. The alien was alive in this bed right here. Knowing that you sat in the hospital room with a live captured alien and had direct telepathic communication. You have the autopsy of this soldier who's died because he basically grabbed an alien being. Every time I say something's impossible therefore you know it can't be there for it isn't. I've been proven wrong. I'm here round two with James Fox who I always say is my documentarian hero and now a friend and I just really I really appreciate you coming here because we're talking about I think maybe the most interesting case where you have a UFO, you have alien beings and you have all of these witnesses in a town in Brazil in Virginia, Brazil as late as 1996. We're not talking about Roswell 70 plus years ago or magenta or magenta you know 90 years ago and you've just done an amazing job in this movie of documenting all of the literally the flight path of the UFO you know three beings coming out of the UFO and them seeming sort of injured and and afraid maybe more and maybe more and you show all of these. There's witnesses coming from disparate places that have zero reason to lie have not made a penny off of any of their testimony and they're coming from this you know from Virginia Brazil they're not you know selling books at like a conference in the southwest in the US and like into the UFO or like they don't really have pre existing notions of what these things even are so hard to get those people on camera people have no idea they think like people are just lining up I want to be famous I want my. My my my notoriety get on camera exactly the opposite people took years and in some cases decades to come forward and you know this most recent revelation which is in my humble opinion the most compelling firsthand eyewitness testimony in the history of the phenomenon I agree I fully agree with that right and and it's and it's not just some random Joe it's the guy that ran all the hospitals. Hospitals, Humanitas, Regional, like Bonheurts, there's three, he mentions them in there. But in any case, he's a neurosurgeon and he had health complications. He had a heart attack and he got cancer and he was like staring at the ceiling of the ICU and he was thinking, if I get through this, I can't take this to the grave. This is, it's literally, I agree with you. It's the most amazing testimony. I've ever heard from a person who was face to face with an alien being for what he describes as three to four minutes, which is just remarkable. And it's clearly, you know, he's a concert pianist. You show him at the end of the credits playing piano. Oh my God. And, um, and he's a really well-respected neurosurgeon. Yeah. And, um, it seems totally beyond reproach and you see him, he's in the hospital and he's showing the bed that the alien was on. Crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. And then he gets emotional. You take him to a cafe nearby. You get kicked out of the hospital. He's like, I think I might've just lost my job. So a lot of this might be, you know, a lot of detail for people to take in, especially if they're not familiar with, you know, kind of the, the, the background of exactly what happened kind of high level. So, uh, we might be getting ahead of ourselves here. So, so, so what happened in January of 1996 in Virginia? Put me on that farm in January of 1996, what happened? So that was the, the object was shaped like a song and I was shaped like a school bus. It was the size of a school bus songs and no noise at all. We kept watching it because there was smoke, a light smoke wrapped around it. But I even joked with her. What is that? Is it a submarine? Because it was floating, you know? And he kept watching it until it vanished this way. It was shaped like a cigar, you know, that a long, like that, like a cigar. Roughly 20 miles as the crow flies from the couple's sighting, farmer Fabio Furtado encountered a similar object. From here, I saw it, it passed right by and made that movement over there in front, you see, and I saw it all from right here. Look, then it performed that exact same movement right here. And then it landed way back there. It was like a cigar. It was like a cigar just flying through the air. It was January 1996, probably the 13th. And there are a number of witnesses to a cylindrical shaped object, rather large, the size of a little bigger than a school bus. Okay. And it was like a metallic cigar shape cigar shape. Yeah, there were no like wings or any visible means propulsion. It didn't really make any noise. And according to the witnesses, it had. And for the first time ever in this recent cut of Moment of Contact, New Revelations of Alien Encounters, we actually have a map of all the various sightings of it, which really helped put things in perspective for me. You did a great job of that. Wow. I was like, oh, my God, he saw it here. This person saw it here. This is the town of Virginia. The crash was here. It was like, it all makes sense, you know? And so they see this object and it had a tear in the back of it, which is very positive. And they're puzzling, like, hmm, how did that happen? Something came in contact with that object to tear it and have, they said it was like a white vapor. It wasn't like a smoke from a fire that you would see. It was like a white vapor that was coming out the back and that it was clearly in distress. And I was like, well, how do you know it was in distress? It was struggling to stay in the air. But they said had the animals or the farmers, the two farmers, had the animals not made a ruckus at two o'clock or three o'clock in the morning, they would have not even heard it or known it was there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was absolutely silent. And they were expecting it to hit the ground, the two farmers. And then there was another gentleman, Fabio Furtada, at that farm. And he said that it was like it was over his house and he was there with one other person at night. And he said that it was making a whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop sound like it was kind of in trouble. And then it landed on his farm. It's the first time we got that testimony. And that's like over here. And then. You know, the object was seen here and here. And then it crashed right in the middle. And then there was a gentleman by the name of Carlos de Sousa. And he was an ultralight pilot. And he was also a geography professor in Sao Paulo. And he was going up to go ultralight flying with his friends early in the morning on January 13th. And he sees. And he's a pilot himself. He sees this object, this cigar-shaped object with a gash in the back, just like everyone else described, that was struggling. And he's struggling to stay in the air. And he never once thought alien. He was like, that must be some sort of weird experimental crap. Maybe it was government or Air Force, whatever. It's in trouble. It looks like it's going down. So it's really early in the morning. He turns off the freeway and he goes up to this place called the Maialini Farm. It was a dirt road. And he goes up there and he sees it struggling to stay in the air. And then it just goes, boom, and hits the ground. He's like, oh, my God, I think it just crashed. They need help. Wow. So he went up to the actual impact site, which was like a debris field bigger than a football field, maybe two football fields with debris everywhere. Half of the craft was still intact. And then the other half was just gone, like just debris bits everywhere. Got out of the car. And he's looking at it just, and again, never once did he think alien. That didn't even enter his consciousness, right? And he said he's looking at it. He's like these little bits everywhere. And he goes, the smell, like it pulled to me. He was like, it's rotten eggs and ammonia. He grabbed his shirt and kind of pulled his shirt over his mouth. My God, the smell is so dense. She immediately smelled ammonia. It was like rotten eggs. A very strong odor. I had to cover my nose. I had to cover my nose with the shirt I was wearing. And there was like kind of a liquid that you described, because I was asking like an acid or some sort of liquid everywhere that causing the grass and stuff to burn. And he said it was acid, maybe an acid or something. Yeah, like some kind of liquid. And because he was talking about the grass was kind of, was affected by it. And actually, if you, when we flew the drone over that exact alleged impact site, you can see it's different. The ground looks different. different in that zone than it does all around it i mean it really does yes and um he picked up one of the pieces and he said it was like uh like aluminum really light like you couldn't feel it very much like the roswell people that's always what you hear yeah and he said that he could crumple it up really light like you could barely feel it in your hands and then when he released it it regained its shape it's the same thing as what jesse marcel that's what he said yeah it was weightless you couldn't feel it you had everything in your hands and then he goes he goes then all these military trucks started coming in from uh the military base as from the opposite direction which actually just a few months ago we were there and i took the drone way way up in the sky and pointed it straight down and you could see where the as a military base the route that as it would come in from and he came in from the freeway on the opposite side and that's when he was he was threatened at gunpoint he didn't see anything get out of here he was like i was just trying to help like you know what what's the problem i'm just trying to help i'm not you know and that's when he said things got really weird and then he got into his car and he left and he stopped at a gas station just a few miles down the road to have a coffee and just kind of gather himself and that's when an unmarked vehicle showed up and they knew who he was his name his wife his address his daughter like all everything about him two men approached me dressed in black suits all perfectly aligned very tall individuals they stood right next to me and asked me are you mr carlos de susa married to so and so your daughter so and so they described my entire life story right there i turned to the man and asked who who are you what do you want to know how do you know all this it was perfectly clear to me listen you didn't see anything you just shut your mouth and you leave if anyone ever asks you anything at all you didn't see anything you don't know a thing or else things will get no supposed to really weird for you all right so just get out of here i was at that moment completely startled it was a black or a very dark blue opala almost black and without a license plate they got in and drove away they vanished that's That's crazy because it's a level of counter Intel response in 96 in 1996. And they, they somehow know everything about your family. And it's right after you witness a crashed craft and you drive a few miles away and they somehow are able to apprehend you there. Yep. Like the car that stopped had no plates. Did they have an accent or was it, they were very tall. They had suits and, uh, they spoke Portuguese and I, you know, sometimes there'll be one person speaking Portuguese and there'll be a couple other people that will just be silent in the background. And that's, that happened in the case of, uh, Louisa, the mother of the two girls that came into direct contact with the alleged alien. Um, and she's like, they, they were foreigners. Like, how do you know? Well, they didn't say anything, but they looked like foreigners and the money was foreign. It was like American dollars. In a briefcase. And, um, and he said that they were very intimidating. They said, you don't, you didn't see what you, you know, you didn't see that. And if you ever talk about it, things are going to get very weird for you. Not that we're going to hunt you down and kill you. They're going to get very weird for you, which is kind of spooky. It's, you know what I mean? Do you think they were maybe like the proverbial men in black? Well, I, you know, it's so funny because I'd heard about these so-called men in black stuff dating back to the, to the nineties when I was investigating and I was like, I investigated the Phoenix lights case. And a lot of the witnesses hate when you say Phoenix lights. So they're like, it wasn't a bunch of lights. It was a massive craft. You know, I can see the compartments. It flew right over my, yeah. The governor has now admitted is real. And Kurt Russell saw while he was flying his plane with his son. He said he could land his airplane on her. There you go. So we're going into Phoenix and, uh, there's these bank of lights, six lights in the shape of a triangle going back right over the airport. So I was investigating. That case. And I was working with a woman who was like a council woman, Francis, Emma Barwood. And, um, I was interviewing her. And of course I was going after the governor at the time. I wasn't getting any traction with that. And I was interviewing all the witnesses and, and, uh, there was one guy, uh, a Vietnam vet and he contacted Emma Francis Barwood, one of the few elected officials, council woman that, that was willing to, Hey, all she said was let's investigate what happened. What these people saw, like, let's just, you know, she was lambasted in the press. Oh my gosh. You can go see, they were making fun of her. This guy reached out to her. And I know this cause I was investigating at the time I was in touch with her. And he said, Hey, um, I understand you want to know more about this craft is I, I'm a Vietnam vet. I was on my roof that night trying to get a, uh, a video on a tripod of hell Bob comment because the hell Bob was over the sky, you know? And, um, and I have a CB radio and I was listening to the truckers come up interstate 10. I'm from Tucson and they were all describing this massive boomerang shaped craft. And I realized, shit, this thing's coming right my way. So he said, I, I was all set up with a tripod and a camera and I filmed it going right over the top of my house. Got great footage. Would you like to see it? She's like, yeah, I'd love to see it. So, uh, they make arrangements where he was going to drop it off at her office. I don't know if it was later that day or the very next morning or that night, two men roll up in an unmarked government vehicle and suits. And, uh, he's like, he goes, they were very intimidating. Look at me. And they were like in these dark suits. It was really hot. And, uh, the only thing they really asked me was, you know, they said they were from France. They, they're like, we're from Francis Emma Barwood's office. We're here to pick up the video. And he was like, Oh, I was going to drop it off, but I guess I don't have to. And he said, the only question they asked is, uh, did they make, did he make any copies? And he said, no, I didn't. And so they took the, they took the footage and left. And a couple of days go by. He doesn't hear from Emma. So he calls her up. He goes, Hey, what'd you think of the footage? She goes, what do you mean? What I think the footage, I didn't get the footage. He goes, well, you had two men from your office show up. She goes, I didn't send anybody around. So that was like the first time that I really heard about these so-called men in black. And that was in the nineties. Yeah. No, this is made fun of. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, but, but Richard Dolan, you great UFO researchers write about this phenomenon happening time and time and time and time again. You, you have another example, which you cover in the phenomenon, or I think in the program, actually. Two witnesses were out hiking. They then saw a large diamond shaped craft hovering. It didn't move. It just hovered in the air without making any, any noise. The witnesses looked at this, for a while. And one of them had a camera. So when the jet came along, they sort of stuck the camera out from behind the bush and snapped six frames. The two witnesses that took the photographs took like six prints, five prints, like color points of reference, broad daylight, two witnesses, military jet, the background, like it doesn't get much better than that. And he was like, these men in black rolled up. They were having their cigarette break. They were fucking spooks. They were men in black. And they stood outside and the person ran speaking to them. So any case, when I got to the Varginha case with the men in black, I was like, oh my God, these guys again, I'd heard, I could give you, I could go, go on for five hours. It doesn't matter. My point is I went all in on that. Yeah. And I did cover a little bit with the 1966 Westall UFO incident, the landing, when I got ahold of Mr. Greenwood, the science professor. Well, that's a whole story. About how I got him to go on camera. I remember when I arrived in Australia, all the seasoned UFO researchers were like, don't even bother. You know, this guy was never come forward. We've been trying for 50 years. I said, just get me in the room with them. It is a great story behind how that whole thing goes. But he talks about these guys, the intimidation, they showed up at his door, they're in suits. Like, you know what I mean? Some unmarked government agency threatening him, like putting the blood, the fear of God in this guy. And yeah. So, but, but, but, but, but if you talk to Richard Dolan about who the men in black are, he seems to think. - OSI? - No. Well, this is really trippy. He thinks it's like counter Intel on behalf of the NHI or the aliens or the ETs. Because if you, if you think about it, the level of rapid response, - It's unbelievable. - The ability to show up and like, you know, kind of know everything about like, it's either like in 1996, we had way more of like, like, like think about 1990, 1996, the consumer internet wasn't really a thing. Like, you know, who knows how much information the government, like maybe the US government had a lot of information on its citizens, but did they have information on a citizen of Virginia on a, you know, this guy who's a pilot in Virginia and a, and a geography teacher in Sao Paulo, probably not, you know, and then the ability to show up a couple hours after he had seen this crash craft. - So DeSouza, did he see any beings with the crash? He just saw the crash. - Just saw the crash. And I asked him, I said, it was the, was the, the section that was still intact. Was it big enough to have people? Oh yes. He said, no question. Now, - Did he see inside it? - Not that I'm aware of. - Okay. question. That's a good question. Yeah. I think if he had seen inside, he would have told me. But he said there was a section, and it wasn't there for very long, but just a few minutes, but the section was intact. That was still there, and it was about half, half the size of what it was when it impacted. Seven days after Sousa witnessed the crash, Hubert Laudera leaves this gym when he and several friends see two military trucks driving into town. They follow them through the neighborhood and come upon a military blockade. We tried to force our way through, and they raised their rifles, their weapons. Did you get, did you all feel scared at that moment on that day? The only time I felt fear was when the soldier raised his rifle, because until then, I had never seen such a large weapon, and no one had ever pointed a gun in my direction, you know. And you have some reason to believe that two or three beings came out, and that, and one of the beings, and you have, you have the, you have the mayor on record testifying to this. The mayor's nephew's girlfriend was one of the three girls that saw one of the beings. Yes. The news has just arrived at this very moment. The Aguerras have spotted some kind of creature up there, close to the Maracanã gymnasium. Just around the corner from the military blockade, three young girls had an encounter of the third kind. The sisters Valkyria, who is 14 years old, and Lilian, who is 16 years old, are also very frightened. It's the first time they've come back to this very place since Saturday, January 20th. That strange round thing, wow, it was incredibly strange. And it had these things like horns right on its head, its skin was brown, and it looked like it had some. Some kind of oil all over its body. It had a huge foot, and its eyes were super wide and red. And then I think you have some reason to believe that one of the beings made its way over the hill and possibly towards the water, and then was captured with a net. Is that right? Yeah, that was over the fire department earlier. That's why I keep thinking because that one was alive because we have testimony of someone that was in the area when it was, it was in a net. They captured it with a net like they would with a wild animal or something like that. So wild. And, but it was screaming like a little baby. That's what they say, screaming like a child. Screaming like a child, yeah. The fire department was dispatched to this location after receiving several calls from concerned residents who reported seeing something strange in the area. Oh, it's a lot of care. I thought you said you were going to cry, but I'm going to cry like a child. First of all, I'd like to take a quick moment to acknowledge all the Brazilian UFO researchers that have done a stellar job helping expose this story. Claudio Covo, Pacaccini, Uberajada Rodriguez, Marco Petit, A.J. Givard. I mean, these guys that came before us, you know, Marco Leal's been on it for over 20 years. My partner, he's amazing. And the persistence of. Of all of them. And Marco and I knocking on doors, like going downtown, putting up signs, like leading us to people. Like, I just want to give one example of how we got to the girls. Because the girls are like, this is not a career enhancing move for these girls in a small town to be talking about. They got made fun of, ridiculed, laughed at. Like, their life was a living hell. Men in black showed up at their mom's house. And they got offered cash to retract their statements. Yes, a lot of money. And they did not. They didn't. They did not. And the mother said, I will not have. My daughters are not liars. That will not happen. That's right. They were very intimidating to her. And like, so all this pressure and all this, you know. But I was there with. I was in Virginia, I'm going to say it was my second or third time. And it was probably 2012 would be my guess. And I was doing a silly TV show, which I'm not proud of at all. My bad. But whatever. It got me to where I am now, I guess. And that was for National Geographic. Oh, God. It was so bad. Sorry, guys. And we were out wandering in the jungle at night. And I got bit by a spider. Ooh. And it was like midnight or something. We had no business out. It was so silly. I got bit by a spider. And by the fang marks, it looked like it could have been a Brazilian wandering spider, which is deadly. They get me to this clinic and they had to go to an anti-venom. And I was up all night getting this drip feed. And then the next day, I didn't get any sleep. And the camera crew, the whole team, they were like, we're going here. And we got this scheduled. And I was like, I've been up all night, man. Like, I'm on-camera TV talent. And you guys are expecting. I was like, at the very least, I need to stop at a cafe and get a juice. Because, like, Brazil is known for having incredible juice, right? Fresh juice. I love it. Mango, papaya, whatever. And they were like, no, no, no. We don't have time. We don't have time. And I was like, you know, and the car was stopped. The van that I was in was stopped at a stoplight. And I just opened the door and got out. I was like, you guys leave without me. I'm not. I need some juice. I need something. I need something to nourish me. So I walked into this random, like, cafe juice bar. And I'm in there ordering. And this guy's looking at me. And I think he said something in English. Like, hey, are you American? And I was like, yeah. What are you doing here? And I was like, oh, I'm kind of working with a TV show, you know, covering the 1996 Virginia incident. He goes, oh, my gosh, I dated one of the girls. I said, really? And we're trying to reach them. We're trying to find them. And he goes, let me hang on, Bert. Takes his phone out. Boom. Gets her on the phone. Hey, what's it going to take you to get out? And that's how we first met. Whoa. And so had I not been bitten by the, you know what I mean? Like, the way it all went down. Yeah, I know. That's crazy. Really crazy, right? The creature was there. And we just came by this way. I didn't realize that's closer than I expected. It's like eight feet away. And he was absolutely sweltering, sweating profusely. And it was incredibly hot. And so he was going through it, you know, suffering from the intense heat, the scorching sun, and the effect it had on his skin. Remember, I said, hey, everyone, look over there. Then he turned, I saw his eyes, and I immediately ran away. So when he turned, we could only see his eyes and what looked like a slit. But we couldn't really tell if he had a normal mouth like ours or something else entirely. When they locked eyes with this being, what were they thinking? Well, it wasn't a human that we saw. Honestly, it wasn't an animal either. And so these days, I truly believe it's a being from another planet. Back then, you know, we were always in pause. We were children of Catholic parents, right? In pause. And that it could be a demon. So that's why we ended up being afraid back then, you know? So the three girls run to her house. And they say, we saw this creature. We might have been the devil or whatever it was. And do they get in the car and drive here? Do they walk here? How did they get here? And what did they see when they got here? She said, let's go there in the pickup truck. And I told her, I'm not going. I'm too scared. I won't come back. Then Louisa asked, please, won't you come with me? So I finally got into the pickup truck, and we came back. We ended up stopping right here. Look. In that very spot, I saw the creature's track, its foot. I will never forget it. I swear to God. Oh, I'm still trembling. Do you want to see one toe, then another long toe, and then another toe like this? Look. Smaller. Yes. Roughly three hours after the girls witnessed the strange creature, military police officers Eric Lopes and Marco Ciresi drive down this road on the lookout for something unusual when suddenly, it runs right across their path. These military personnel exited the vehicle. These soldiers, but most notably Marco Ciresi, wrestled with this creature to bring it under control. It was captured by Marco Ciresi with his bare hands, easily, and taken to the hospital. So what happens is Marco Ciresi, who's this soldier, apprehends the creature. This alien being grabs him, brings him into the vehicle, right? Yep. No hesitation. Puts it on his lap. That's so wild. And then he ends up with this gnarly bacterial infection. And I don't want to get too into the details because Chris Ramsey's going to do an amazing follow-up with you, which double clicks on this autopsy. But you have the autopsy of this soldier who's died because he basically grabbed an alien being, and it shows bacteria. Yeah, you have the guy, the founder of the company, IPD, and you could get the, it's an acronym, but the founder of the company, Dr. Giannini, and the guy that did the autopsy on the deceased military officer, Dr. Armando, participated on camera for this cut of the movie. Yeah, it's amazing. You have the guy who provided the report and all the infrastructure for the report. The one who founded the company. And the guy who founded the company and the autopsy guy. Yes. Both saying, and they are using words like ET. I get goosebumps. And then they're the ones speculating that the claw from the ET must have punctured. the skin and it's like this he said the bacteria most likely came from the under the nail of the et which didn't mean to like it wasn't like an evil et that tried to kill this guy he just like accidentally in the process of grabbing it yeah he got a little scratch right under his armpit based on the circumstantial evidence that has come to my attention it was a very distinct and deliberate scratch on zarez's skin clearly inflicted by et i truly believe he was a victim of of et's nail you know his sharp claw why was it so resistant what biochemical gain did it possess to completely escape the antibiotics it just sailed through destroying everything in just one week that's very very atypical yeah i won't go into detail about it but basically never before never since yeah they've never seen anything like this bacteria this was an advanced bacteria that did things that nothing on earth no bacteria on earth does you know you see them in the movie saying that it's like incredibly yeah and it's not anonymous they're not doing this anonymously neither is the neurosurgeon yeah neither is the neurosurgeon and he's still working at the hospital today when we first started selling merchandise at americanalchemymerch.com we had no idea how complicated and annoying selling merch could be we talked to a dozen different platforms and companies comparing shipping tools payment options website builders and it all felt like way more of a headache and complicated than it should be we decided on shopify and within days our store was up everything was running cleanly in an automated way so we could just focus on the brand and the quality of it and that's when it hit us ideas don't scale on inspiration alone they need a structure a container shopify provides that structure it quietly powers millions of creators and brands about 10 percent of all united states e-commerce from big names like gymshark and mattel to solo creators building from their bedrooms shopify made it simple to build a store that actually feels authentic to us which matters when your brand lives in a niche like alternative tech or fringe science and when you have a very clear brand vision plus their ai tools help write descriptions organize products even clean up photos so we can focus on what matters and what we care about building the best custom merch line possible with the coolest designs like our ufo cowboy tee and the atomic age tee plus shopify handles all of the unglamorous more painful stuff shipping returns email marketing all in one clean dashboard it's like having a silent part who never sleeps our favorite part of the product is the dashboard which gives us complete demographic information we can see where our orders come from making it easy to know who our most loyal consistent customers are around the world that's just one example but shopify really makes your life easier bring your next idea to life with shopify quietly handling everything behind it sign up for your one dollar per month trial and start today at shopify.com slash jesse again that's shopify.com slash jesse j-e-s-s-e for a one dollar a month trial it's just one dollar a month to try shopify the state-of-the-art solution in e-commerce and they tried to suppress this report marco shirisi's sister oh yeah tried to get yes basically had to sue them and arrest the report out of them the wife couldn't get the the autopsy report from her husband that's great and she was pregnant at the time it's horrible you know yeah god that was one thing that dr roger lear thank you dr roger lear for tracking down the wife in 2002 after a protracted legal battle the family finally received the death certificate it was produced by ipd laboratory the institute of prevention and diagnostics in virginia an unidentified substance, so he died of a generalized infection, but without a fair cause. All the witnesses that claim that Marco Chirisi handled a creature, a strange creature, it doesn't have to be from another world, it was a strange creature, he gets some unknown infection, you did everything you could to save him and he died. Do you believe that there's some credibility to that story? Yes, I believe that there's some credibility to that story. He exposed that as an excuse to try to help himself, to be able to save his life, because he realized that he was going and, according to his sister, he was prevented from reporting it. Marco Elis Chirisi, 23, worked at B2. around a random goose chase we're going to knocking on doors in random places three or four hours later we knock on this one door door opens there's marco sherry's sister marta who's like and i remember my sound guy looks over me he goes you're the luckiest son of a bitch i think i've ever met i said not well not sarah i'll look i was knocking on doors to find her and um uh her husband was very protective and he was wearing this white wife beater and he was just ripped and he was like standing in the background like you give me the nod and i'm gonna rip this guy's head off like to me right and and she doesn't know who the hell i am right everyone's paranoid like i'm some american and i said i'm here to give your your your brother justice to give your brother a voice and that broke the tension immediately yes and it was like okay let's talk and then we and then that's how i got in with marta taveras when her brother falls ill she asks about his involvement with the case and this is the story the creature from outer space look this story will be a big deal so what so one of the beings gets captured with a net yeah the the other being so the only yeah the only two really solid ones that we have but we have information on others uh up to five but again i only reported on two because that was the most concrete eyewitness testimony that we could get our hands on and that was one capture in the morning by the fire department with a net apparently that one died but that's the one that was crying and then the the other one which was marco sherry's and eric lopes and it's interesting actually because when you watch the movie and a lot of people miss this when we doorstepped eric lopes and a lot of people a lot of people criticize us for that like how could you just doorstep this guy you just show up at his house it's like well we exhausted every other possible avenue for decades yeah all the researchers had like he wasn't talking period and he was the the military transport guy he was the one driving the car when his fellow intelligence officer police officer marco sherry's jumped out and grabbed it because the being was in the way of the car went right across the road right in front of him yeah and it was just a couple blocks away from where the girls had seen this creature just two hours earlier and eric lopes everything lines up he said i will uh deter you with bullets or something like he said he said he'd shoot you but before he said that he's like if you're here to talk about the et he he he won't talk he referred to himself in the third person it's kind of like it's kind of like the police showing up at your door at a party and you know and you answer the door you see the police and you go there's no drugs in this house it's like the police always like i didn't ask you about any drugs but now it's interesting you know he said if you're here to talk about the et something like if you're here to talk about the et he won't talk yeah yeah yeah we didn't even say anything yet we just said hello so well that plus threatening to shoot you i think it's you know they're not a normal reaction he's like they he he brought the et up we didn't bring the et up he did yeah so it's like read between the lines there tacit admission of something yeah and and and when i when i was standing there trying to make sense of what was going on because it was like everything was happening really quickly and they were talking you know and like i speak french and i speak a little Spanish. And I could really, like when I'm in the field, I really want to understand what's being said. Even when I was in China, I was like learning Chinese. I just, I have to be able to communicate. So I, I can, I have this level of focus where I really try, but these things were happening really quickly. He was making threats, I guess, about shooting me and shooting everybody else. Even there was a 10 year old kid there. And I'm looking in the eyes of this guy and he's up, he's like up in a window on the second floor, looking down at us. And he's got something in one hand and I don't know what, if he had a gun or whatever he had, but he's military intelligence. He's P2. Like he probably doesn't have any problem. You know, I'm sure he's armed to the teeth, but I'm looking in his eyes and, and, and I hear all this commotion going around me, but I had a moment where time almost stopped. And I looked into this guy's eyes and I just saw eyes of someone that I've never, I never seen before because like, they look so grief stricken. They look so sad. And I'm just like, I, it's like time stopped and I'm looking in this guy's eyes and I've never seen eyes like that before. Like if you can imagine harboring or witnessing a murder or something really intense and then having to be quiet about it because maybe your family's threatened or your life's threatened or who knows what, like, and you had to harbor that for the better part of 30 years, like the toll that would take on you. Well, you, you see it even, even you hear it with, with what he says to you in the movie and you, and you sense that he's been threatened, his family, his family's been threatened and that he probably feels like kind of half a man or something. Like he's been, you know, he's been submitted, uh, through force. So Eric, Eric won't talk. What just happened? I'm trying. What happened? Is that Eric Lopez? Who is that? That's Eric Lopez. Terminat. Terminat. Okay. Okay. Oh my God. That was Eric Lopez. Just saw him. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We'll go talk. Did you get him? Dave, did you get him? Please tell me you got him. That was Eric Lopez. You get him in the window? Yeah. Fuck. If that guy had nothing to hide, he would have just said so. That guy was driving the car. Yeah. That Marco Tresi was in. We received an unexpected request for a meeting from the chief neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional. The same hospital where military police officers, Marco Cherise and Eric Lopes allegedly had taken the live alien they'd captured on the road. Dr. Italo Venturelli, the head neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional, was on duty in the ICU when he had the most extraordinary encounter of his life. In this room or which room? This room. Right here. Holy shit. So he saw the creature right here? He saw the creature right there? Right there. While he was watching the video of the surgery. His eyes, they were like teardrops, red, much red. His eyes were redder, especially right here, you know. And he was, well, partially covered. He was right here, you know. But he was still alive. He looked in the eyes of the creature? Yes. In this bed? In this bed. And what did the creature say to you? What? I saw the red eyes. His face was white, his eyes were red, and he wasn't showing any suffering at all now. If there was perhaps a possible telepathic communication? Yes, yes. Right there, you see? As if to say, you know, something like, "I'm perfectly fine, I've been well looked after." He said, "Yes, for sure." A communication as someone would say, "Yes, I am okay, I've received care." That's what he felt from the expression of the being. What did the creature say to you? To speak without speaking. It spoke without speaking. According to Dr. Italo, a being underwent a procedure by his colleague, fellow neurosurgeon, Dr. Marcos Vinicio Neves, who died at a young age. He died in 2018 of a heart attack. The other primary witness was his partner, a fellow neurosurgeon who was slightly below him, Marcos Vinicius. And Marcos Vinicius, there's a lot to that story as well. He had a heart attack in 2018, he didn't survive, and he passed. And he did surgery on the alien being? He did a little, he did a procedure on the being, yes. Yes. Yeah, I know. And so he died in 2018, I believe. 2018, yes. And Ventarelli, he said he was face-to-face with this being, and what did he describe as far as that interaction? He said that, this is incredible, it's hard to kind of wrap my mind around it, you know. It's like I've had very, I've only had a couple of cases where I'm almost kind of pinching myself during filming. One of them was with the former governor of Arizona, Feist. One of them was with the former governor of Arizona, F. Simon, when he confessed after 10 years that he had not only believed about the Phoenix Lights case, but that he too was a witness to the event. And then he looked into it, and he, as a pilot in the Air Force, he said that thing could not have been from here. And I said, how did you know that, governor? And he goes, because of its size and its flight characteristics, it couldn't have been from here. It had to be otherworldly, is how he put it. And that was a moment. In my career where I honestly, and I'm not just making this up, I remember sitting in my chair and I'm going, did the governor of Arizona just say that he too saw it and that he looked into it and he felt it was otherworldly? And I'm like, I think I must be dreaming. And so I'm like pinching my, I literally grabbed my leg and I pinched it. And I was like, no, I feel that. I'm not dreaming. Then I said, I bet the cameras aren't rolling. So I looked over at the camera to see if the, you know. And then when we. We were with Dr. Italo, the neurosurgeon in regional hospital that he just snuck us in the back gate, like, you know, with all cameras rolling and the audio guys and everything. And then he starts talking about like, this is the bed, this is the ICU. I was like, holy shit. This guy's just going full Komodo. Like he's just saying the hell with it, whatever the consequences. This is what happened. I was here. I sat with it in this bed, right here in this room for three to four minutes. And I was like, I'm going to die. I was like, I'm going to die. Yeah. marcos venises's daughter marcos venises's he had a mistress and he had a he had a kid with the mistress we we we talked with the the wife and um did they all say that no they were very guarded okay but not like no it didn't happen like okay well you know like guard what you come in as outsiders to a place it takes a while like like it took when the film came out that was actually one of the reasons why the the police officer he's like you're doing a serious investigation one of the reasons why i'm talking to you is you you're investigating something that i participated in like you you clearly are taking this seriously i'm i'm providing a platform we are providing a platform for people to come forward and not be ridiculed not be laughed at taken seriously and like you know kind of like first time in decades right so they're seeing this is a real effort to really get the truth out and it's power in numbers you know and um um and and again i i think this is the beginning of the beginning on this case i i believe that i mean this is an extremely compelling like new account new cut of the of the case but i think it's going to get better yeah well i think if you believe that that's going to determine the outcome because you're the prime mover of a lot of this stuff and i know you've given credit as it's due to many uh of these local brazilian ufo researchers uh but i think as far as mass exposure you are you are helping them you know really get this thing out you keep going back and so i really admire that if this were a court case you would have an overwhelming amount of evidence that something happened whatever the thing is that you're trying to prove in court this would be far beyond the threshold of evidence that you would i think we could sway any jury i think you could sway any jury and so the venturelli thing is just fascinating you end up in a cafe with him yeah he gets very emotional he starts crying because clearly he's held this in for 29 years 29 years and could you imagine the weight of that on your shoulders now like you're watching all this speculation you're watching all this conjecture all this media coverage the debunking going on from the military like excuse me the witnesses you know adamantly saying you know this is what i saw particularly those the three girls you know and then knowing that you sat in the hospital room in the icu with a live captured alien and had direct telepathic communication face to face face to face man's eye to eye doesn't get any more incredible than that like as someone who's been around the world yeah interviewed people like you know you have close encounters of the third kind you know where people claim you know entities connected to a craft that's in the wild i mean it happened in rua that happened in socorro um you know lots of cases in china you know all around the world but it's like people seeing a landed craft and seeing entities connected allegedly to the craft and that's close kind of third kind but to actually have an alien alleged alien in captivity and having direct contact direct communication he said you look into the eyes of this creature and despite the fact that it was in captivity it had control of the whole room usually the person experiencing the thing is kind of discreditable often they live in you know somewhere in the woods or something the interaction occurs in some remote place and it's just this kind of inherently ephemeral thing where you have to take their word for it i would actually say those people are sort of more trustworthy in some ways than like you know uh often people who are kind of insidery types or whatever but in this case you have a person whose credentials are unimpeachable he runs a chain of hospitals he you know people are are their lives are on the line works on people's brains works on people's brains he's a neurosurgeon he's a concert pianist and you know clearly all of the incentives go in the direction of him not revealing any of this stuff and because he's had a couple of light life-threatening illnesses and scares he comes out and speaks to you what does he say about his interaction with the being the being was very calm and it was it was uh it had sort of acquiesced to being in captivity and was very calm and that it was it was okay that it wasn't suffering it wasn't in pain um and he said when he looked into the eyes of it it read his mind like it could just read all of his thoughts he's like it was an advanced intelligence and i kept saying like what do you mean by that he goes there's nothing here on earth like it he called it like an angel and it was it was um passionate caring like it an advanced intelligence and i said explain that he goes way more advanced than anything on earth way more advanced than than myself just way beyond and that you and he said that one of the last things he said was there's so much to learn from the eyes of that being we have so much to learn in the eyes of this being just looking into the eyes and it's just amazing to think you know think about that and you know you hear other cases in the wild where people talk about you know looking in the eyes of the creature rua zimbabwe you know secor new mexico i remember the wife of lonnie zamora looking at me and she goes i don't know what happened when he looked at that creature but he was never the same like the community there's some communication that occurs with the eyes and that's exactly what he said he said there's so much to learn from them and they're advanced like more advanced somehow than than human consciousness which is and then what do you say about the physical characteristics um big big head almond shaped eyes they were red now interestingly the skin was more white than brown and i don't know this is just speculation but when the girls came in contact with this being that was most likely the same being that he had in the hospital because the chain like the girls saw it they got when within 10 feet of it it was really hot it was a really hot day in the summertime january summer over in brazil and it was suffering it was like kind of exuding some kind of weird smell like almost like a skunk would you know when it's fearful or feeling threatened or vulnerable but his eyes were red his skin was oily i couldn't see him with an open mouth laughing no not happy but sad hunched over pale and sad and he had no hair and i saw that he was frightened just as i was frightened the creature was also frightened the fear that we ourselves possess just as we became afraid of this this being whose nature we do not know and it was suffering and the girls said it was suffering in fact when when all three girls came into contact with that creature two of them the two sisters grabbed each other by the hand and hightailed it out of there and they realized they had left katya behind katya was the oldest she was probably 21 and um and valkyria and liliani the two sisters stopped and realized shoot we got to go back and get katya and katya was locked eyes with this creature and uh it was pleading to her because i asked katya what was it saying it was like i need help and it was suffering i need help it wanted help and i just thought my gosh can you imagine how different would have been if they'd gone with if the girls had taken the creature and and hidden or you know who knows like giving it aid or whatever anyway the girl uh liliani katya stayed behind the youngest she was like maybe 14 liliani was 16 katya was 21 uh liliani ran back and grabbed katya and yanked her out of there and then the reason why we're pretty sure that that's the same being that uh dr italo had a direct telepathic communication with in captivity is because we did all aerial photography of the area and if you look at where the girls came encounter it like late afternoon with the creature just a few blocks away is where the capture occurred it had to be the same being it was just literally two blocks away from where the um two military officers marco cherise and eric lopes captured the creature around six o'clock something like that about two hours later two two and a half and then they took it to one little um clinic and apparently the doctor came out and took one look in the back seat and there was you know marco cherise military officer with this creature on it and he's like i don't know what that thing is but get it out of here so then they went to regional hospital and that's where italo was so it makes perfectly good sense we knew that that creature went to regional and so it went it when the women saw it was like brown or darker and then when he saw it it was somehow whiter it was it was more of a white big red eyes just like the girls described the little ridges on the on the forehead just like that spindly arms same height same exact body structure everything exactly the same but the skin was more white and do you think it was because it had was emitting the ammonia or sulfur because both everybody says that it was smelled like rotten eggs yeah and it was ammonia or sulfur or some some sort of smell she immediately smelled ammonia it was like rotten eggs a very strong odor i had to to cover my nose with the shirt I was wearing. I couldn't stand the smell that was right here inside my nose. It lasted for about 20 days, and I have no idea where that awful odor came from. I even went so far as to wash my nose with alcohol and water just to get rid of that smell. Stayed in the sinuses for days, if not weeks. Right. And, like, there was another one, which was one of the deceased ones. We interviewed a radiologist, and I think he was at Regional Hospital. Pretty sure it was Regional. And he said that the room where he did the performance of doing the x-rays, that stank, like, for. They had to close that wing of the hospital down for days, and they disinfected the whole thing, and he said it took days, and it was in his sinuses. It was everywhere. Did the smell leave? But even after being washed and disinfected, the epidemic smell still lingered in the ward. In fact, our sector was closed because it couldn't accommodate external patients due to the very strong odor. So we're having a big meeting in a week. Uh-huh. We're meeting with pretty much all the doctors. Wow! Yeah. Some of them, you know, at Humanitas Hospital have stories. Some of them aren't ready to come forward just yet. Some of them might want to come forward. But there's power in numbers, strength in numbers. And according to the book by Roger Lear, there was another creature that was alive that went under a procedure because a lot of them got hurt in the crash, evidently, that also had communication with the two doctors, but they're at Humanitas. So we're trying to find those guys right now. And Roger Lear was contacting me. It was probably 2013. And he was like, I know you're doing something on Virginia, and I got to talk to you. I got to talk to you. I said, yeah, we definitely got to talk. Let me come. I got to go on camera. There's things I need to discuss. And I said, I kept, like, postponing and postponing. I was so busy. I was working, like, 17-hour days. I was so busy. I could barely talk. And he goes, well, you got really angry with me. And he's like, well, if you're not going to meet with me, I said, Roger, Dr. Lear, Roger, it's not that I don't want to meet with you. I just, I don't have the bandwidth right now. And he goes, well, look, take my tapes. So he gives me his tapes. And I don't know how much time went by, but I don't know. I can't say. But I transferred the tapes. I sent them back to him, and he died. Fast forward, and that was very unfortunate. Fast forward probably 10 years, I'm guessing, or ish. I was making Moment of Contact, because I was going to include Virginia in the phenomenon. And then I just couldn't squeeze it in. It was too, there's too many moving parts. Anyway, so when I was making the whole movie on it, I was like, oh, shit. I was like, the Roger Lear tapes. So I got the tapes. He wrote a book, got the book. And the book was a transcription book. And it came from the tapes, because I had the tapes. And I read the book. But there was one section that wasn't in the tapes that was in the book. And that was, he met with two doctors from Humanitas Hospital. And they talk about a creature that was also undergoing some sort of procedure at Humanitas. And then all of a sudden, there's this crazy thing that occurs in the room where there's this communication and weird smoke and just crazy. And the communication was basically like the entity saying to the doctors that we feel sorry for you, the human race, because you don't realize your potential and who you really are. Really? Yes. Which is the same message that the Renro Zimbabwe. Yes. It's the same message where these school children get, where it's like, you don't understand how special you are and your potential. True potential and stuff like this. So I was like, oh my gosh, if I could just get the name. And apparently, Ubo de Jaro Rodriguez, who was one of the leading investigators, a lawyer who's gone. I don't know what happened to him. Pacaccini got threatened. He disappeared for 20 years. Ubo de Jaro Rodriguez, God knows what he has because he hasn't come forward and said yet. Pacaccini apparently was shot at. Really? Yeah. He talks about it recently because he disappeared for 20 years. Where's Pacaccini? He said he was shot at. He was shot at and he had a gun and he shot back. And he says he would put his right hand on the Bible. Yes, he said he would testify like he would put his right hand on a Bible and he would take a public lie detector test. About there being video and footage of this alien. That he saw. Hello, I'm Vittorio Pacaccini. I am one of the leading investigators of the Virginia incident since the very beginning. I know and I saw with my own eyes an alien creature kept in captivity. And this 35 second video, it was right there. One of the alien creatures with two militaries holding the creature by the shoulders. The creature was really injured. The eel was not feeling good at all. They tried to give the creature some fruit and water. He didn't accept. And the reason why they filmed this creature without superior authorization, it's because they were pretty mad that the American militaries were coming to Brazil to take all these material, not only the pictures, the footage, but the creatures itself and the spacecraft. As they took it to the United States. So, some other militaries friend of mine had the chance without authorization to make this movie. And right now I'm willing to put my right hand tomorrow on a Bible and take a live public lie detector test that everything I'm telling you is the truth. Yeah. Now he grew up in Tres Corzones, which is like the region, Minas Gerais, where the as a military base is. So, he knew all those people that worked at the base. They knew him. He grew up there. So, like, after all the investigations, his life threatened and all the stuff that went down, he said he disappeared. I think he went to go live with his mother or something somewhere for 20 years. And then when Moment of Contact, the first version, came out in 2022, that's when Pacaccini came back on the radar and it was like, "Hey, you know what? I'm ready to get back in the ring and finish this fight." And so, yeah. So, you have multiple people in the hospital system. You've now gotten military whistleblowers. You have civilian witnesses. I have the guy that drove it. You have the guy that drove the being. Yes. That saw it and drove it. So, like, the amount of disparate uncorrelated sources, I think, is just. Unbelievable. And that comes from you literally touching down in Virginia and on a piece of paper, like, do you know what happened in 1996? What does he think about the case? Does he think it happened or it didn't happen? Absolutely. What are your feelings on Virginia? You have two types of people in this movie, people who are extremely afraid and admitting what they saw, and all of those stories line up. Everything lines up perfectly. It all lines up perfectly. It's unbelievable how it works. You have a flight path of the UFO. You have all these witnesses in these disparate, you know, places who aren't coordinating clearly. And then, so that's one type of person, and then you have the other type of people that are, like, lying through their teeth and so obvious, like the commander at. Yes, Lima. Yes, he is. General Lima. General Lima. Yeah. And he's. We're in touch with him now, by the way. Oh, amazing. Yeah. You got to talk to him because even if he lies to you. We're trying. You know, it's like you see the smugness when he goes, you know, we were serving our country that day. Yeah, national security. Can we get some details on, like, how you served the country that day? What you did? He said, "No, absolutely not." And, but he says it in such a, like a. a condescending, cynical, like, I don't care what you think sort of way, and then walks away. There was another part to this when interviews were conducted, and that's when Euclides and Calado, the two young men from here, traveled all the way to the sergeant's school of arms in Tres Corazones. Then they managed to ask a question. Then the sergeant went inside, came back and said, no, but aren't you going to say anything about the case? Look, if you ask one more question, you'll be arrested. We were investigating the case at the ESC, the S.A. headquarters, the sergeant's school of arms, and I had never been arrested for doing my job, neither before nor after this case. I was just having a normal, regular day at the barracks, you know. Then around 9 o'clock in the morning, we received orders, a mission, to get some vehicles ready, you know, some trucks, specifically for an important operation, and that we, our unit, would be deploying. We would be moving out, heading directly to the city of Varginha. We were given the order that we should proceed to follow a number of specific vehicles, which were clearly unmarked and definitely not military. So I followed this military man, you know, who was from the Secret Service, passing through the city center near the hospital, if I'm not mistaken, the regional hospital, and afterwards, we went to here. Humanitas Hospital. When the instruction was given to back a vehicle up into Humanitas Hospital. When I was approaching the entrance, how exactly can I express it, of the hospital's immediate surroundings, I noticed a container, a stainless steel table with a container on it, you know, with several doctors and other staff members holding clipboards. As I was analyzing, it seemed that everyone else was also caught up in the same thing. And when I realized, I saw something completely different. You know, a different kind of creature, with skin that was very oily, very, I describe it as having a sort of silicone-like texture. And that sight really startled me. But what truly caught my attention, what later convinced me that it wasn't a human being at all, was its foot. Everyone was completely taken aback by the news. They were all incredibly, incredibly surprised. We have, for the first time ever as well, we have the police officer, which had been trying to get to him for so long. Marco Leal was going by his house, knocking on his door, he would set up arrangements for us to meet with him, and it was always, it was like slipping between your, it was like trying to grab a bar of soap in the bathtub, you know, it's like pooh, pooh, like you got your hand on it, but then it's like gone, you know? And that was the former chief of police, Aguilar, Pedro Aguilar, and he had, allegedly, according to people that tracked him down, he had a photograph of one of the things. But anyway, he described the activity at the base. He was at the base as chief of police. He was invited in there, and he said that, he described it just like everybody else. Every single bit of testimony from separate people from all over the area, all fits perfectly. Not once have we had it any other way. Like, you know, we're putting these pieces together, so now the piece we're missing is on the American side, and we want to get with Humanitas Hospital. So it's like ongoing. Yeah. Well, the chief of police says this is not a story, it's history. Yes. And, you know. You remember well. Oh, yeah. It's a great movie. And it's, he just, he said, you know, this happened. I participated. He said, I participated. Absolutely. And are you at all conspiratorial about the fact that he just died, and that you were about to go in a couple of weeks to go see him? Yeah, again, I know. And allegedly, he has a photo of the ET being. Yeah. Do you think that that timing is coincidental? I mean, anything's possible. It's very unfortunate. Was he in good health? Do you know? I mean, you see him on camera. Yeah, and that was, you filmed that, what? You filmed that, like, not too long ago, right? We knocked, so it was really crazy, actually. It was just a couple of months ago, and we were going to doorstep him on the way to Vargino, and I say doorstep, and he's just show up at the door, right? Yep. And for some reason, I was like, I want to stop and get a slice of pizza, and everyone's like, we got to keep moving. And it was like 5 o'clock or 4.30 or something. I really was really hungry, and I wanted to get a slice of pizza. We stopped. Reluctantly, half the crew was like, oh, we got to keep moving, blah, blah, blah. Well, as it turns out, it was perfect, because the owner of the pizza joint, you know, gave us pizza, gave us, like, really good, you know, we took, like, an hour, and we just spent a really fun time having pizza with the owner of this pizza joint near the area where we're going. But it set us back at least 60 minutes, possibly 90 minutes. But, you know, it was a little later. Maybe it was, like, 7, 7.30 at that point. And we show up at his house, and they had just gotten home, like, 10 minutes in our house earlier. So we would have missed him had we not gone and stopped to get that pizza. And what we did was is we, you know, started talking to him at the door. Then we went inside, and we had some, we had audio. One of us had audio rolling, and the guy in the car outside had, you know, our sound guy had a, you know, it was remote transmitted back to a receiver. That was just, you know, the audio. And then we're talking, getting to know his wife, his son. And then I said. Would you mind if we bring a camera in here just to kind of, you know, document the moment a little bit, just ease our way into it? No, that's okay. So in comes the camera. We're all sitting down and talking. And his wife, I'll never forget this, and I think I have a cut of it somewhere, but his wife had these, like, her eyes were so big and, like, kind of just, like, and her wife was looking at her husband, like, like, just wouldn't blink. And I'm looking over at my cameraman, Dave, and I'm like, are you getting, you know, she's just looking at him. Like, I'm thinking. I'm thinking. I'm thinking, does she have the photograph? Like, does she. Who? You know, I don't know. Yeah. Is she worried that we're in there probing? Yeah. And at one point, we asked him, like, when things got more comfortable, and he goes, I'm a. I participated. I'm a witness. He saw the creature under a tarp, maybe the bottom half or something. And then he went into, as a military base, the activity, helicopters coming and landing. He goes, more brass than I'd ever seen ever before. Like, there were higher-ups from all different corners of Brazil all there, maybe even a plane at some point. No, he did say the Americans came. They came to Campinas. He said that, too. Yeah. And took the goodies. But he seemed to be in relatively good health. I mean, you know, it didn't look like he was going to win, like, a triathlon or anything, but he was in. I mean, he's in the movie. Yep. And he just died. Yeah. And he might have had a photo or footage. Well, we talked to two witnesses. One of the primary reasons that led us. to him were two people that described he pulled the photograph out and showed it, and it had one alive, one deceased creature, and it had military police and fire department in the picture with their faces that, you know, that's according to the witnesses that we talked to. And when I pressed him on it, and I don't want to push too hard, but I definitely pressed him on it. I've got the footage. He said, I was like, well, when I talked to you a couple of years ago on a video, a Zoom call, you confessed that you had the photograph or that at one point you had the photograph, and now you're saying you don't have the photograph? Like, what's. You know, and I really pressed him on it. What did he say? He said, well, there's certain things within the police department that have to go unsaid or something like that. Come on, dude. Just let it out. You know, and I feel the frustration from people out there, like, oh, there's not a picture, there's not a video. First of all, I never give up. And I'm not giving up. I will never give up. I'm getting closer. We are, as a team, are getting closer and closer and closer. And the developments that are happening are unprecedented. It's an ongoing investigation. I'm not giving up. I think this is the case that's going to blow it all out in the open. That's my humble opinion, because I can't think of a better crash retrieval case involving the Americans. It's recent enough where most of the people are still alive, right? Like, unless you can, I can't think of a crash retrieval case with live aliens better than Virginia. No, I think it's the best. It's a recent case. And, and, um, again, I think if this were a murder case, you'd have more than enough evidence that it happened. Yes. And so, like, there's this, you know, you want a smoking gun? You'd be, maybe you don't have that. But like, I, I bet you in the world of deep fakes, if you've produced a photo, the, the, the, the goalposts would move and there'd still be skeptics who'd say, oh, look at the photo is blah, blah, blah. It's blurry, blah, blah, blah, you know. Unless the neurosurgeon who shot the video. Okay. Came forward. So you have Providence. That would. I think that'd be pretty good. I think that would be about as good as you can get. I think that'd be as good as you can get. And then it is what it is. It is what it is. Yeah. Um, Jose Fernandez is this, uh, air traffic controller. Yes. Who, what does he see? His unit was responsible for monitoring specific airspace over the state of Sao Paulo. Do you know anything about this case? What I am aware of, uh, is that the U S air force. Made a landing in Campinas, a specific aircraft belonging to the United States air force landed there in Campinas. And following that two helicopters took off from the very same Campinas airport proceeding to an entirely unknown destination, which we later came to understand was the city of Virginia. They landed, collected something that no one knows what it was, then returned to Campinas, placed it inside the U S of aircraft. And then they took off, they were gone and the mission was what we were told was silence. So it was really funny actually, because let's back up a little bit by a couple of years. And I was just talking to Lou Elizondo about this. Lou was pestering me before I had a, I had a final cut of the first version of moment of contact. And he was like, I need a copy. And little did I know about what was happening behind the scenes. I need a copy. I said, Lou, do you have a copy? It's not done. He goes, I don't care. I need a copy. And I said, okay, sure. He goes, have you had any idea who's watching this right now? And basically Lou was like, okay, this case is absolutely amazing. But the air traffic controller who talked about USAF coming in without any government regulations, they didn't have government approval. USAF is U S air force. Exactly. But I kept hearing USAF and I was like, USAF, what's this guy talk? Oh, United States air force, the acronym USAF. And, um, and that was one of the aspects that, that Lou really wanted to show, to this day, hasn't told me exactly who's watching it but i think it was like like maybe if there are certain restrictions on people like lou or grush who knows like they could show them the movie show them that it's a compelling case eyewitness testimony and then having the flight control what do you call the radar control officer the people that monitor the planes that are coming into brazil that's what do you call that air traffic air traffic controller okay so it would be an air traffic controller talked about this uh you have to have government approval to land a foreign plane coming into you know brazilian soil and apparently this plane deviated from going to uh sao paulo to campinas and and campinas is where we know according to all the eyewitnesses including the guy that drove it that's where the et went so for the have the united states usaf landed campinas makes perfectly good sense like i said earlier all the pieces of the puzzle line up it all lines up perfectly like every single person there's not been one conflicting testimony there's a date here and there where it's like oh well maybe it was earlier maybe it's later we don't know but everything else lines up perfectly and you use the united states freedom of information act yes to try to get information from the air force yes about flight law you saw that yeah and so and and from the u.s to virginia in 1996 and and what came back well i tried to i tried to cover all of our bases and uh our team we filed a foia and uh in 2022 i think it was yeah it's probably 2022 and i've forgotten about it quite honestly because it's like years went by and all of a sudden we get a response from the cia which is weird i don't know i mean i'm not a huge foia guy but i mean the cia yeah like really and it's basically like you know because i asked for records i was thinking like okay so let's just like back up let's give it like a window of 10 days or whatever so we know the incident happened a lot of the sightings were on the 20th of january so why don't you back it up a little bit crashed a little earlier so i think it was like january 13th to say january 27th something like this just to cover you know any planes that came in from the united states air force well it was a 10-day window two-week window that landed in campinas get all those flight records because i was talking to an individual who for a long time was anonymous and then he was so knowledgeable i was like wow this guy's incredible who are you and he goes well actually my colonel in the united states air force i was a fighter pilot blah blah and he has since come forward with us and he had a really dramatic ufo encounter in 1980 or something like that but he was giving me guidance on like what to ask and where to ask and all that stuff and um blanket statement from the cia basically that's like either national security classified or exempt from foia because of xyz because of this 1949 yes provision secrecy provision i can't even get a flight record it's always a tell too when you uh request from one agency and then they forward it to the other agency which the other agency would obviously have you know this this article came out in the daily mail about the office of global access run under the cia around their rapid response you know global crash retrieval team and um the article is amazing like it mentions i think doug wolf as like the head of the oga and so they probably would have been in charge of this sort of thing so the fact that the air force is forwarding this to the cia is such a tell cia runs all foreign intelligence obviously for the us such a tell that they were involved in this case i mean it's it's it's honestly funny it's like an admission of of of you know involvement in some ways uh you know i just interviewed a guy named dan sherman and he wrote a book called above black and uh he was a cool title amazing title insane story he was a air force electronics intelligence all of his stuff with you know his elant electronics intelligence career lines up with like i i've i've had multiple elant people come out after this interview i've done with him saying this guy was definitely u.s air force elant like like just very matter of fact very intelligent kind of on the kind of traditional vector of of signals intelligence and um he said that he was part of this secret nsa program and it was called project preserve destiny and it was he was supposed to do this kind of continuing elant education you know in air force but while he was there he was taken to this complex this nsa complex at maryland and this was in 1991 or two and he was told to drink this you know drink and uh and then kind of hook himself up like match the tones that he would hear with these headphones that this computer would would play and and lock into them and that's how he would kind of gain telepathic access to alien communication and this was really interesting independently this research or foya the air force said does you know just asking for information about project preserve destiny his name is no erotic i've been in noah if you're out there please confirm this because i don't believe he mentioned dan sherman's name at all they forward the the foyer request to the nsa that's telling right there yeah the nsa of course gets back and says you know we can't the existence or non-existence of this program didn't they say that in my foyer it's the same thing right yeah yeah but it's such the bigger tell is you have one agency forwarding it to the other agency it's like okay that then the second agency was obviously involved why wouldn't the agency you sent the initial thing to just respond absolutely yeah i got i get i get emails all the time people reaching out on all the various platforms i got an email from someone and i could pretty much like i could read it pretty quickly and determine you know what i mean like i've had been contacted by alleged witnesses and stuff like that yeah for decades and you could kind of sift out the crazy pretty quickly and um i think it was like a year ago maybe maybe a little over a year ago i got this email and i read it and i just i time stopped i was like oh my gosh and it was basically someone that claimed uh i have the email i'll show it to you offline um claimed to have been part of the virginia corporation from campinas it was a usaf he goes i was on the flight no way yes i swear to god what happened did you get in touch well so i was like oh my it was just this moment like i was i was overwhelmed with excitement right and i gave all the details i'll let you read it and um i was involved this has weighed on me for almost 30 years of my family and what yeah you have to be very careful how you reach out to me if you do it this way or that way i'm going to cut all ties like it has to be this way you know blah blah blah and i was like i'll whatever you want let's do it whatever makes you comfortable that i didn't hear anything for about 24 hours maybe a little longer and this individual this individual said oh my systems were hacked and that wasn't me that wrote that no way so did you do some follow-up and research figure out who this person so yes and and but when when this individual reached out and i have a proton email now which i'll provide to you at some point yeah well yeah because it was it was through google it was through gmail when i thought well that was silly like why did you contact me through gmail yeah you know that's easily hacked and it really wearied me yeah when i got it yeah but i only way oh that was only he didn't leave me a number i couldn't find him on signal like so i responded just the way he told me to respond and the feeling i had certainly from his response later was that somebody he got a phone call something happened shut this down i don't know but it seems so authentic like it seemed so like this guy was really part of it i don't know if that guy is listening to this message right now in any way shape or form like reach out you'll provide the proton email that you can put it on the screen thanks yeah but so uh did you do some background research on this person i figure out i did through some connections of mine yes it was the air force uh marines he was marines marines yeah okay and um did so is it plausible that what he was saying was correct very interesting yeah i mean he gave like you'll see do you find any colleagues of his or anything uh no and and uh you know since then i i was putting out the program and then in record time i put out the new cut of moment of contact nine months from concept to completion to delivery nine months which is a history like i i have had so little bandwidth for anything else there's so many things to follow up on i'm going back and forth to brazil we gotta find this guy have you found any colleagues of his or anything like that have you heard of jonathan wagant yes i interviewed him in the 90s with uh yeah what am i talking about you have an interview with jonathan wagant which steven grier edited yeah in a weird way yeah i was actually there for that interview and i i went around the country with steven grier just because i was like oh this guy says he's got all this access to people and i wasn't even prepared for landing cases let alone crash cases back then i mean i heard about roswell but but i met him and he was in his 20s and i was in my 20s and i was like and he was so paranoid at the time yeah this is the 90s well he was beat up he was paranoid and he was talking about like it was one of the interviews that i was on steven grier's anyway he left an indelible impression on me because i saw behind the scenes how terrified he was he was debating on whether i didn't even come forward at the last possible minute he talked about i think either he was in the helicopter or they mentioned the fact they could take him up in the helicopter it was a very big forest they could just throw him out anywhere he would never be seen or heard from again like well he went right up to the craft he went up to the craft he said there was like a green liquid dripping out of it he said there was an arm with i think three or four fingers it like a like a biological piece of an entity yeah and i haven't i haven't watched the whole interview since i operated the camera for that interview with with dr career and um but he left an indelible impression on me like i was like shit well he because he was a marine right yeah and i that's why i mentioned maybe the connection with this guy reaching out to you maybe there's some you know and the thing is is like i wasn't really prepared at the time to process like crash retrievals anything beyond roswell i know it's been a kind of a slow evolution for my personal like sure my personal journey you know because i'd heard about i heard about that was my first case where i was like boy this guy is credible man i mean i i felt like he was super credible this happened in the early 90s he was a part of operation laser strike in peru yeah and this egg-shaped craft crashed into dripping dripping there was something dripping from and he had telepathic communication with it it was it was buried for about a 45 degree angle and into the side of the end of this end of the side of the the cliff there the ridge it was dripping this serp like like serp viscosity this liquid uh it was everywhere all down everywhere when we went down there because there were plants and everything and it was it was weird it was a a purplish green color and it kind of like like fluctuated like you couldn't really when you you'd look at it one time then you look at it again and it would like it's almost like it i don't know if it was like alive and it was just changing but every time you looked at it you saw a different shade of greenish purple and the being the being was uh uh basically sending him very similar signals that that sent you know uh ventarelli the neuroscientist and the the the daughters or the the the sorry the women yeah um it was saying uh help me help me and he started to walk towards the craft and they showed up and then they they apprehended him they beat him up people were like oh my god he's like oh my god he's like oh my god people in virginia are terrified that don't have evidence just they're just they're the fact that they witnessed the event or drove the creature or whatever aspect you know they they experienced they're terrified now obviously the ultimate you know holy grail of evidence that i'm bending over backwards to get my hands on and we keep getting close uh is film footage yeah now i know through experience that if i do get my hands on it and bloody well we've gotten close uh i got something to worry about and i've thought about that many times like uh could i upload it to a server could i send it to 10 different people like how do i deal with that that scenario in fact i had a really recent i had a really vivid dream just recently um really vivid like in fact when i was watching your show with joe rogan yeah he had he had that dream yes that really vivid i had a really vivid dream where i was in i was in virginia and i was in a very crowded area i think it was like a conference or we're having a screening or something and um lots of activity lots of things and some gentleman walked up to me and he handed me a thumb drive and he just slipped in my pocket and he just looked at me and he kept walking i was like i've got this this has to be the footage right but in my dream i was going what do i do like then i just felt this dude maybe that happens i just got the chill now i have a target on my back like what do i do like i feel like i'd have a target on my back to get the hell out of there i need to get it uploaded as quickly as possible you know go to a fancy hotel in sao paulo i don't know but anyway if there's one thing that i've learned in this field don't draw quick conclusions don't have that knee-jerk reaction like suspend your judgment listen to the testimony because it's so easy to go that's impossible that's impossible that's impossible that's impossible it couldn't possibly have happened with the whole world knowing about it well that's that's people have an allergic reaction to everything that doesn't fit their kind of mental model how the world works but it should always it should always be follow the evidence absolutely it should it should always be like okay what actually happened and then there's beyond that there's speculation as to what those things are i often think even ufo researchers jump to the conclusion that it's a thing came from another planet when you know i don't know what these things are that's why they use non-human intelligence which on the one hand sometimes seems sanitized pc and part of some controlled disclosure like uap is supposed to ufo like uap is supposed to ufo and i like ufo better than uap you know i think it's kind of better in old school but like also i i kind of like the nhi thing because it's we don't know we don't know we don't know and you you really just have to follow the evidence specifically and you have great theorists people like mike masters you talk about that them being beings and maybe they are being who knows i'll be the first one to admit i have absolutely no idea where they come from what they want why they're here yeah i can speculate i can look at like i don't think the government is sure of that either but you know and i okay over the decades i've gone you know you look at what they do and that's pretty compelling but then you look at what they don't do because all they'd have to do to to reveal their presence would be to hover over the next super bowl right i mean but they don't do that they've done some pretty bold moves over the years like in the 50s uh 57 i think in uh italy some big game they were oh yeah yeah you know they've done some pretty cool stuff i mean phoenix arizona was pretty phenomenal i was when everyone's under the night sky to get a glimpse of the hellbob comet and that massive boomerang shaped craft and other crafts as well pretty bold pretty bold stuff you know but then you look at travis walton and it's like well they clearly if you're if you're going to take if you're going to take the account of seven witnesses you know at face value they cared enough about him he probably got in the way of the propulsion where they grabbed him fixed him and then deposited him in the area in an area on the outskirts of town that was close enough to like he could get help but not too close to reveal their their presence they cared about him but had they dropped him off where they picked him up right he wouldn't have made it it's a very remote area of the snowflake arizona up in the mountains where that encounter occurred so i thought about like i think about those things i think about you know sakoro like officer lani zamora like face contact you know locked eyes with one of these beings they got back in the craft and left like they didn't want to have contact they didn't want to have communication much more than anything whatever happened when he looked into the eyes of these creatures so they're in on the secrecy as well yes clearly yeah right i mean you can draw that conclusion pretty definitively i would say that many of these experiencers yes yes exactly if you take the their accounts at face value that but there there is some level of contact i mean look at rua i mean look at 1966 west all you know thank you shane ryan and james rigney um that case is compelling because you know once again it was a school 10 30 in the morning broad daylight broad daylight 300 plus witnesses standing out there watching this disc zip around in the sky with a little airplane falling around it and then the thing lands and then the kids run over and a handful of the kids see it sitting on the ground within 10 feet that's a pretty bold move i would say yes yeah you know as far as sightings go yeah yeah in plain sight yeah anyway it's it's a complex it's so complex and i feel i feel almost like i know less today than i did 30 plus years ago although i know the phenomenon's real i know there's a cover-up i know that the government i i say no i i feel very comfortable the government has got very definitive evidence about this you know bodies and craft and all that stuff i just i don't know what they know in fact i just asked somebody who'll probably i'll remain nameless but i was talking to somebody that i feel would be in a position to know and i said i was like how many people have the bigger picture and this individual is like and i believe me i trust this individual and um um 10 10 have the bigger picture that's a good question i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't mean they have the full scope yeah yeah but yeah and i said well so like how many people know what you know he goes about 30 i was like so 30 people know what you know it's like well um is it i've heard that some people say it's a little scary is it scary and uh the individual's like yeah i guess it could be a little scary yeah mm-hmm yeah it's a little scary i know i'm dying to know right you know maybe with the information they have isn't correct who knows and um i looked over and leslie keen was watching me have this conversation you know this is recently and i see her looking at me across the room and she's like looking at me she knows she goes i know that look on your face james when i see you locked like you're you really want to know something she goes i didn't want to interfere and i'm like just about so i was like well what um it's like well what uh what's the intent you know and then somebody like butts in and hey you know i've always wanted to meet you know i'm sitting there like oh like i don't know if i would have gotten it or not but according to this individual that that it's not like i they didn't i didn't have to fear for my safety kind of thing and this could be all wrong i don't know but but that the intent was a little scary a little scary yeah yeah well what do i know i don't know it's hard to say jesse i don't know i don't i don't either you know and that's that felt like the framing of the of disclosure like there you know that there was some sort of um you know they were prepping the battle space and they care about our nuclear assets because it's just like we would do isr on a foreign adversary or whatever you want to know what they're working with yeah i don't believe that i don't i don't um and that's not to say you know if you're you're a hammer everything's supposed to look like a nail and so if your job is american national security like you know maybe that's the way you're supposed to orient yourself towards this but like i i don't i don't believe that and i don't i don't think that should be people's a priori biases going in especially if that's their first touch point towards you know the phenomenon that's that's not my personal belief and i mean look you just spoke to you know tala venturelli and you know this is like this thing was like an angel and it was higher consciousness than ours and it wanted us to know how special we are and even that could be a form of deception you you know it's always like you know you guys are doing harm via like you know these environmental catastrophes that could be some sort of deception where they're trying to clamp down and control us who knows but i think i think knowing that they're bad somehow i mean this this thing's but whatever it's been going on it's been going on for a long time i think well before roswell well well before magenta in the 30s look at uh wonders in the sky by jacques valet that's a great example yes incredible yeah our passport to megonia passport to megonia exactly so so this has been going on for a long long time so i just the idea that there's going to be some sort of rapid juncture or break in their orientation towards us where they start to view us as some sort of big threat uh you know clear i do think they do care about our nuclear stuff and are trying to enforce some sort of homeostasis of the earth protect it perhaps it could affect their reality yeah it could affect them somehow but i interesting but i the i mean in the you'll hear things like oh they activated the nuclear sequence well guess what they turned it off after they activated you know and they always turn it off in most cases they deactivate in most cases they deactivate yeah so yeah i don't know if i buy that but um you know i'm open but i you know the one line that i always remember and i i actually think i i think i got this with tim coleman i was doing out of the blue i should watch out of the blue again it's been a while but uh robert salas former launch control officer i think he's been doing it i just love this line and i'm sure a lot of you have heard it but i was like well wow it's amazing these you know these craft were seen over the base and these nuclear installation during the peak of the cold war blah blah blah and he's like yeah he's very calm and i could see exactly why he was a launch control officer because he was very measured and every word was carefully crafted and he was just calm you know the kind of guy that you want in your corner when all hell's breaking loose right because he's going to be very methodical measured and like not panic and do the wrong and he's like yeah you know james uh message was uh pretty clear in my book um it's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby you know i thought wow that's pretty cool whoa yeah yeah it is cool and and it's all reassuring a little bit it is and you know what he he's not alone most of those guys who are in bob hastings amazing book ufos and nukes say that that's what they you know they're like we don't know but we think that the message is you know you guys are playing with fire yeah and not we're you know we're trying to deactivate your tip of the spear defenses against us not that we're trying to dominate we're talking between september of 66 and march of 67 we lost 30 missiles to ufo activity it's wild yeah 30 30 that's pretty pretty insane and i do think what that guy said to you as far as i think i think there is a tip of the spear as far as government knowledge on this stuff but i think if if you know maybe the biggest misconception of all is that they understand all of it yeah you know i think they're learning from you just as much as you're learning from them i really do that was really funny yeah go for it yeah i was at this event and uh and and i was with leslie and there were all these men in suits and she's like hey there's a these guys are from the agency and you know i pretty much know them and i'm like oh yeah i knew that you know they were very nice and i i didn't assume anything i i was like oh yeah you know and i've been investigating this case you know in virginia they're like oh yeah no we know exactly what you've been doing yeah not in a threatening way but like we follow oh yeah we're following this really closely like for sure like you know isn't that funny yeah no i get i get that all the time of course you do yeah and i've had people on the inside ask about you oh there you go like what do you think about what do you think about this guy jesse michaels though i was like he's fucking amazing that guy's putting the pieces of the puzzle together that i just like whoa i'm taking notes on the sideline that's why i mentioned you on joe rogan because i was like this guy earned it that was the nicest plug i think i will ever get you i mean earned that brother that means so much you earned it it came from here well that i know it did i know it did and i i got emotional just watching it because it was that was like 10 minutes or something you're a rock star and i don't know the end of it because joe didn't know me then and he was just like okay i guess you love this jesse guy thanks jane because i've been watching you work and i'm like this guy's operating on another level like you're just incredible the way you're putting the piece of the puzzle together and like doing deep dives into all these different aspects i was like whoa like this is incredible well i'm standing on the shoulders of giants and and and there's no way you know like you were making movies while you were painting fences yes and it's just branding rebar pouring cement painting houses parking cars yeah yeah so like i think it's really easy to post destigmatization of the whole topic new york times article in 2017 all this stuff you know it's easy to make these youtube videos so uh you know i i i think you know all of us who are doing that oh you a huge debt oh people like jeremy corbell and ross colthard a huge debt and so yeah no it's uh thank you for saying that but uh oh yeah and there are people like me too like uap i get so many people ask me to do that and and i don't i and i so many people oh i heard you're going i always try to keep it secretive i heard you're going on like can you please you know it's like you earned it it's like when you called me and you said thanks so much i was like dude don't thank me man you earned that one like yeah that's i meant i meant it yeah i really i really meant the the world to me and and and joe's become a good friend that's incredible when i saw him on your show i was like my god yeah that's so cool that was so cool that was so cool that was so cool the most surreal moment so cool it was so epic because he he's also he respects you too like he's got tremendous respect for you oh i don't know it's incredible yeah it's it's so nice maybe both of you guys should aim higher but it's always nice to like feel appreciated everybody wants to feel appreciated and you know one of the things i'd love to say right here right now is like you know i really like to see more kindness between fellow everyone really i agree especially with the people you disagree with yeah you know and less less impugning people's motives and thinking that they're bad faith actors absolutely because and there are all these people who i went into this world thinking oh but they're part of the insider crew yeah or whatever and then i'd meet them and i'd realize that like yeah maybe they know a few like kind of spooky-ish people or whatever but they're really just trying to figure it out and they're trying to get the information you know a we're like you know i i uh you know recently when he went on rogan yeah it was it was too much yeah it's too much too soon well well because he was probably right right he was right about a lot of stuff i think but he he it was um too much where he wasn't in a position to he could like say a high level thing and then rogan obviously wants to get low level he wants to know all the details yeah and then he would say like i can't really fully you know tell you like i'll tell you after the show yeah the thing and i was like i can't wait for the show to end right but um you know i find him to be extremely earnest and cool and smart and have like some sort of working worldview around this thing that uh you know seems to be pretty coherent and and i think a lot of his you know uh engagement with people on the inside were his own just really vigilante desire to like get a lot of this stuff out and in any way he could and he has some interesting stories that i hope he tells at some point i want to shift gears for a second because you have just uh a compendium of incredible historical interviews and interactions with some of the people who are the most important people in ufo history uh i want to talk about phil j corso yes you have maybe the last interview with him alive yeah uh he obviously wrote the day after roswell um he was uh head of the the pentagon's uh foreign technology desk and he was a witness to the creatures maybe well he says he was he says he was but in the day after roswell the that was also co-written by william j burns right and that might have been but no but i interviewed him and he told me about when he was taken in at fort it was okay so they started the journey in roswell by truck i believe it was and some of the debris went to right pat on an airplane but i think the bodies according to corso yeah there was a stop along the way in any case he said that he'd heard that there were some bodies and they went in and they opened up the caskets and he saw the body from the roswell no way yeah yeah in early july 1947 corsa was post duty officer in fort riley kansas there he claims to have seen a body transported from an Air Base in New Mexico. I went back and there was five crates there, like five or six, I think it was five. I lifted one up and here's this body there and floating in fluid. First I thought it was a child because it was small. Then I looked at this head and all right away and this was only happened a matter of seconds. Then I put the end back down and the head was different, the arms were spindly, the body was gray. So right at that moment I figured I don't know what this thing is. So like an intelligence business, I just better put it in the back of my head here and wait to maybe in the future I get cooperation so I can evaluate what it is. And you said that in your interview? Yes. It was really funny actually because when I went to the 50th anniversary of the Roswell case that took place in 1997 in Roswell, New Mexico, it was a scene because we had like members of Congress, there was Congressman Schiff, I think it was, who was saying like, I don't know what's going on here, but I've been getting, you know, I've been getting the, I've been getting like stiff arm by the airport, you know, and I'm making inquiries and why would you fly a, you know, a weather balloon under armed guard, like, you know. And he noted that all of the Roswell stuff was deleted. Oh yeah. And they sent him to an agency knowing that agency didn't have anything. And this was all happening. More people were coming in. And they sent him forward and then boom, this guy, you know, Philip Corso, who apparently, according to him, he told me this directly from him, his mouth to my ears. He said that they rushed the book to print with William Burns because they wanted to make the, they wanted to ride the coattails of the 50th anniversary of Roswell and all the attention it was getting. And that there were a lot of discrepancies in the book that he was upset about that, you know, this is what he told me. And, and I, uh, when he came, when he came to Roswell, there was a flurry of activity in one of the hangars and he was surrounded by all these news reporters. Oh my Lord, you should have seen it was a feeding frenzy. Like, and I'm looking at him and I'm like, I gotta get a, I gotta get an on-camera statement. But I was a little kid with a camera. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to elbow my way in there. I don't care. And I, I fought my way in there and I got my camera and I asked them a couple of questions in the movie. I'll give it to you. You can show it. And, um, and then the next day I found out where he was staying, what hotel he was in. And I, I just like, you know what? I went to the reception. I said, oh, I've got a meeting with Philip Corso. Can you, I just forgot what room he's in. Would you mind, you know? And I went to the room and, um, oh, we were expecting you like, you know, and, uh, oh, really? Like I was like, so we sit down and we do an hour and a half long interview, whatever it was, I don't hour, hour and a half, got a lot of stuff out of them. Again, I'll, I'm happy to provide whatever you want. And, um, and then Michael Hesseman arrived. German guy. And he was late and he was all sweaty and flustered. And apparently he had scheduled the interview that I got with Corso, but he showed up late. I showed up, I was in the right place at the right time. So I got this sit down interview with Corso when Michael Hesseman should have had it. And as it turns out, he was all flustered and he was late and he had no sound gear. So I gave him my sound gear. He said, I got about, I want to say it's about an hour and a half. And he talked about why he's coming forward because it was grandkids. And he's like, I'm old. I'm going to die soon. And I'm like, I'm going to die soon. And he's like, I'm going to die soon. But, you know, I want the world to know this thing happened. I was a witness I saw. And I remember thinking, cause there was a lot of controversy after he died and he was no longer in a position to kind of correct the record, I guess. But I believed him. I believed him. I looked him in the eyes and I really did believe him. And I think I still believe him to this day. And I think he got a really bad rap and maybe it was too much too soon. I don't know, but he told me I'm coming forward for my grandchildren. And he goes, I saw the bodies, like, he looked like a little kid, big head, big eye, you know, all the typical spindly arms, spindly legs. How many fingers? Didn't, I don't remember that part. Because, you know, it's interesting. You say in, in Virginia, there were three, three fingers. And it was, you know, on the paper, it's drawn, you know, the three fingers or whatever, you recreate it. And, you know, I've seen beings in Peru that are skeletons with three fingers and the three toes and three, three fingers. And they carbon date to between 800 and 800 years. And, you know, 1700 years ago. And one of them has a tridactyl fetus inside of it. So there's inheritance between tridactyl mean tridactyl means three fingers. So, so one of them has a fetus with three fingers and three toes in it. They all have DNA associated with them and further testing is being done right now. So I'm like, okay, both of these things are happening in South America. Is that just a skeleton of what, and they have, they have elongated heads, but they didn't undergo any headbinding. They don't have any of the stress fractures involved in headbinding. Wow. Super weird. Virginia, Brazil, those things had three fingers and three toes. So the question is like, they saw footprints too in that case. And, and, and didn't Dave Grush say that some of the craft recovered were archeological digs or something like this? He said, Bob Lazar said that, but David Grush said that the, that the, the skeletons that I saw in Peru looked like things that he's seen in classified settings. Wow. So that could be the same thing that happened in Virginia, that, that being, and we could have literal mummies of those beings for all we know. Bigelow. I remember I met with Bigelow. I got contacted by him in 2009 and I don't think I was ready for what he told me at the time. And I'm quite honestly, I don't know if I'm still not ready. What did he say? Well, it was funny actually, because he talked about the complexities of disclosure. He reached out to me through his secretary and I still have the email and they said, uh, uh, Mr. Bigelow wants to congratulate you on a job well done for, I know what I saw. And, uh, that's cool. I looked up Bigelow and I kind of knew who, you know, I was like, Oh, wow. Would Mr. Bigelow like to get together? You know? Yes, he would actually. And so we arranged a time where I would go to his house and this is like 2009 probably. And, uh, we had lunch together at his house in Las Vegas. And he, he starts telling me about the complexities of disclosure. Do you understand kid? Like, you know, the implications and they're so vast impacts on organized religion and this and that. And I, I honestly, I hadn't really thought of the complexities of disclosure and I was like, yeah, cool. You know, and he's talking about that. And then he goes, he goes, uh, yeah. And they're walking among us. And I said, what? And he goes, what do you mean? You know, he goes, I mean exactly that. They're, they're walking among us. Now, now I think I took that and I put it in the back of my head. Cause I was like, you know what? That's just crazy. Like you gotta be kidding me. You know, at the time I, I don't know. I took it with a grain of salt. Uh, maybe they are. I don't know. I mean, it would be pretty funny if they were because, you know, here we are looking out across the cosmos for any sign of intelligent life, you know, with all the various NASA programs, you know, looking, uh, for water or whatever oxygen or atmosphere, you know, all these various planets. And it wouldn't be funny if they were like right here, you know, and maybe they are, you know, maybe they are. Yeah. Well, they, the Hal Puthoff always talks about the UFOs engaging in what he calls signature management, where they control what they sort of look like or appear to be an optical and radar and that sort of thing. That's happening with the beings themselves. And so who knows? One thing that I've learned over the decades is suspend judgment, man. At this point, anything's possible. I don't know what's going on. I would love to know what's going on. I don't either. And I, and I want you guys to understand, like, I don't put something out into the public if I don't believe it's highly likely that it happened. I'm not out there just trying to, I really don't. I care about integrity. I care about perception. You're the opposite of a grifter. A grifter doesn't start valeting cars and then makes the thing on the side because he's so passionate about it. What are you talking about? When there is no market for the thing in the early 2000s. Once I pay back my investors, I always put my films on free platforms, like free. No, you just, you just told me before you started rolling, your dream is to buy the phenomenon back. So how are you a grifter? You want to buy your own footage back? Because that feels more authentic. It's crazy. Yeah. Anyway. So yeah, that's just ridiculous. No, but it is these things. Same with this thing in Peru with these mummies, like sometimes when the thing is staring you in the face, you think it's too good to be true. But maybe, maybe it's just, you know, Jim Semivan, who's very high up at the CIA. He said, said something. He's like, most of this stuff is a personal experience. Says most of this stuff is just hidden in plain sight. And that's the conclusion that I've come to. Uh, again, despite my funny, wouldn't it? Yeah. Right. What? That it's just, it's just there. Yeah. I was at the airport a couple of years ago and I was flying to Arizona for a conference or something. And I, I get up to the gate and I was like, shit, I left my sunglasses in the car. It's like, I can't leave without my sunglasses. It's like, ah, I had to go back to security. I go all the way out of the car. Ah, my sunglasses aren't there. I was like, crap. Guess where they were? Where? On my face. Yeah. They were right there. Yeah. Sometimes. It's just right. Staring right there. But what, what is, did you, did you probe Bigelow more and you say, what did you, you know, what'd you mean exactly? I talked about that. Well, I did talk to him about the implications of disclosure, the complications of disclosure a little bit. But in terms of them walking among us, I wasn't ready for it. I honestly wasn't. I was like, you know, who's this guy? I don't know, man. I couldn't dismiss it entirely just because of his position. He's probably invested more money in research with NIDS and OSAP and ATIP and all the various different people that he's worked with. So I didn't categorically dismiss it, but I compartmentalized it and put it in the back of my head. But as time went by and I learned more about the phenomenon, I started thinking, shit, man, maybe he's right. Maybe they are right here, you know, walking among us. Wouldn't that be funny? It's like, you know, it's right under our noses. There it is in plain sight. And that seems to make more sense to me because a lot of people go, you know, and I get people go, oh, well, you're just, you know, you're concluding, you know, it's extraterrestrial. I was like, no, actually, I didn't say that. And I've never said that. I really don't know what they are. Well, with the guy who is transporting this being in this, you know, in the military cargo driver or whatever, he goes. I'll show you the email. I want to see that email. Yeah, sorry, go ahead. But he says, he says it was, you know, it was told to him like there was somebody was questioning him. What'd you see? And he says, I don't know what I saw. You know, it was like a burnt human being or something. Because he was trying to be cool. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It was supernatural. They focused on me with this other military guy. He looked me right in the eyes and asked what I had seen. I said, I think it was a burnt man or something. He said, no, you didn't see that. I don't know if he thought I was. He was trying to deceive him, you know, like he knows, but he just doesn't want to talk about it. It was then that he stated that what I had witnessed was a particular thing. Super natural. Yeah, super natural. Super natural, yeah. I was very funny in the edit room because I edit my own movies. And that line just really stuck with me. And I really wanted it to. I really wanted. I really wanted it to hit with the audience. And so I had, I did all the subtitles in the film. And I did it at my pacing because I'm a slow reader. And that always frustrates me when I'm watching a film with subtitles when they come on too fast. I'm like, ah, you're going too fast. Slow down. So I tried to like do one line whenever I could, two lines at most, primarily one line. And when it came to super, because he goes, this is military X, talking about with the general meeting that he had with the general after he'd driven this creature from various places. Humanitas, ultimately Campinas. And he's like, he goes, no, no, that's not what you saw. What you saw was super natural. And so I put super and then a beat later, natural, as he said it on the text. Super natural. And then the other guy that I work with, Boris, he changed it to have them both come on at the same time. And I went, no, no, no, no, no, Boris. That was intentional. I want that word because it's memorable, right? Yes. It's a cool, it's a moment in the movie. Super natural. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds like a shampoo commercial or something. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's sort of remarkable. And we don't know, you know, what these beings are. And, you know, even on the, I keep going back to these Peruvian mummies, but they had these like osmium and cadmium implants like on their heads. And, you know, I was just, I was playing around. I was asking chat GPT, you know, what these things might be adaptive for. And it's like, maybe they could create this local electromagnetic. Field, which would define how the beings are perceived or like modulate, you know. In other words, affect the environment around them. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. Who knows? I remember. What's his name? I'll think of it a second. He was a NASA employee. He analyzed photographs. Maccabee. Was it something Maccabee? Bruce Maccabee. Yeah, Bruce Maccabee. He wrote FBI, UFOs and the FBI or something. Yeah, but he. Primarily did photographic analysis. And he said to me years ago, because I was like, why are all the pictures blurry? Like, ah, you know, and people would criticize that all the time. And he was like, if they're not blurry and they have a defined clear edge, this is 20 plus years ago. He goes, that's when you should be suspicious because there's some kind of weird field around the propulsion we feel that causes a slight distortion. And so you'll always get slightly fuzzy edges and all that stuff. I was like, wow. Wow, that's interesting, you know. And that was coming from a guy, PhD, like, you know. You have these lensing effects from the gravitational warp bubble. It was explained really well in Age of Disclosure, which I thought, you know. Yeah. I mean. Red shifts or blue shifts. Yeah. And, you know, tip my hat to Dan Farah and Lou Elizondo. That was an exquisite accomplishment. Everyone can criticize how a film's put together, but trust me, as a filmmaker myself, I think that's going to help move the needle. Yeah. I was very impressed. You know, people like Rubio and James Clapper and all coming forward and putting their necks out. So I'm excited about the times. And I feel like Moment of Contact, New Revelations of Alien Encounters, I don't know, the timing seems to be perfect because, like, Dan Farah's film, Age of Disclosure, with Lou Elizondo, is kind of everything that our film isn't. And our film is everything that their film isn't, right? So you make these extraordinary claims, you know, and then we're providing an extraordinary case. Yeah. Because this is an example. One's top down and one's bottoms up. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. So I think that it's a really good, I think the timing and the pressure that I felt to get, because I didn't know when Age of Disclosure was going to come out. I'd heard it, kept hearing it was delayed, whatever reasons. And so the fact that it came out and then, like, you know, six weeks later we're dropping this one, I think the timing's going to be perfect. Yeah. I think the stars are starting to align and I think that we can really get some traction in terms of, like. Yeah. And I think, you know, regardless of what you think about the current administration, I think if ever there was a time. For full disclosure. Yeah. I think it's more likely to happen with him than anybody else. Yeah. No, I agree. He's more likely to do something out of left field. Rip the bandaid off. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because Biden administration, I was so disappointed. Like, Rush came out during the Biden administration. It's like, you don't even know how to address it? Well, the Biden administration, the problem with the Biden administration. Okay. Right now, maybe, you know, you could argue that Trump has too much agency. Or something. With Biden, he wasn't. It was a headless administration. It was literally. I was so disappointed. The whole thing was just a bureaucracy. Yeah. Because you have a guy who's had dementia. Yeah. Who, and so then you're like, who's actually running? Oh, is it Jake Sullivan? Maybe his chief of staff. And then, like, what's he up to? We didn't elect him. Like, what's the deal? So. The most dismissive. Nothing's going to get done in that context. I felt it was the most dismissive administration in history on the phenomenon. On everything. Yeah. On everything. If you believe. It was so frustrating. That America is headed in the right direction, then that was the right admin. This, you got a lot of volatility, maybe. But it's like some sort of Hail Mary where you might get some movement or something. But. I just feel like it's going to happen in this administration more than any other. I really do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm, and we're going to be doing things. Well, you have all these truth and transparency initiatives. I mean, one interesting thread is like Tulsi and Clapper kind of hate each other. I don't know if you know this. Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tulsi's a current DNI and like they're going after Clapper. She seems pretty amazing. I love Tulsi. Yeah, she seems like amazing. She seems. I'm a fan. I think she's great. I think she's, she's an honest, earnest actor. I think she's very brave. And yeah, I, I, you know, pray for her. It takes unconventional to get this stuff done. It does. Yeah. So, um, but she doesn't like Clapper, um, because she says that Clapper was involved in Russiagate and this whole kind of, you know, um, planting stuff on Trump's calling the Russian asset or whatever. So. I guess what I would say to the current DNI is like, okay, like, do you want like Clapper or any of these guys eating your lunch on this very important issue? Or do you want to get in front of the issue? Good idea. Why would you want these guys to get credit when you can get the credit? You can get the credit. Exactly. I mean, honestly, you would go down. Hey, look, I interviewed Senator Harry Reid. Yeah. And love the guy, hate him, whatever. He was, he spearheaded something that was incredible, right? Yeah, yeah. And he stood up for Lou Elizondo. And I'm. I'm very grateful for that. But I asked him this question. I recently unearthed it because I didn't put it in the phenomenon. And I said, like, what would you tell whatever president it was, what would you tell the president of the United States about this topic? And he just goes, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to take it on head on. Like, don't be afraid to admit that this stuff is real. Like, I think that's really important because everyone that I've interviewed, including the governor, including senators and members of Congress, it was the best thing to their career. They thought it was going to be the opposite effect, right? But in actuality, and I even interviewed the former governor of New Mexico, who was a Democrat, Richardson, and he goes, you know, quite honestly, James, one of the few things that I ever did in my political career was looking into the UFO phenomenon, particularly the Roswell crash. He goes, you wouldn't believe the level of support I had from both parties. No, it's, it's, you look at. One of the only bipartisan things. You look at Luna, Burchett, Burleson, like all these guys. Yeah. Are it's become their like number one issue and they are going They're going on podcast tours. They're talking about it constantly. United. Yeah, and they're all pumped. Yeah. Democrats and Republicans working together is so beautiful to see. Thank God they're working for the people. Yeah, but it's clearly good for their career. It's not bad for their career. That's exactly right. Yeah. No, they're getting notoriety, and people want the truth. Yeah, they do. And they should get it. Yeah. Like, I don't care, man. If it's a little scary, whatever. Yeah. Don't treat us like children. Don't hide the truth. Like, you know so much, and I know what I know, whatever. You know more than me. Well, not really, but what I know, I know, right? Because I went out, you know. But we, regardless of it, I think that every man, woman, and child has a right to know what the bigger picture is. Stop treating us like children. Like, it frustrates me to no end when you see, like, statements made. You know? It's starting to be less so these days. Satan made, they're so clearly, like, clash with reality. Like, the crash test dummies in Roswell. If you've looked in a modicum of research into the Roswell case, you'd be like, you'd laugh that right out of the room, right? Yeah. Oh, these bluish dummies, and that happened, like, way later. And then Project Mogul, like, Project Mogul is, like, later. And they're same balloons, but they're stringed together to make a bigger balloon. Like, if you look at all the facts. If you look at all the facts, that's just, it's like a slap in the face. Yeah. Anybody who knows anything about it, you know? It's like, and it's just, I've had it. Like, could you just please, can we just have some transparency on this? Like, it's one of the reasons why I'm working so hard. Like, you know, I'm pushing now harder than ever. Like, I've cranked out, since 2020, I put out The Phenomenon. Then I put out Moment of Contact. Then I put out the program. Now I put out a new version, Moment of Contact, which is covering all the congressional hearings really quickly, you saw. And I'm doing something else that I'll be cranking that out in under a year. Because I feel like now's not the time to let up. As much as I want to go spend more time with my family, and I do, believe me, it's very painful. Like, to be away from my son, and I'm missing so many things. But I feel like my whole career has kind of culminated to this moment right now. And I feel like we all, as a community, need to work together, need to be kinder to one each other, need to respect one each other, particularly with those that we disagree with. I really mean that. Because we're stronger together. Yeah. Speaking of people who did not hold back on the truth, Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, you met him as well, right? Yes, I did. And he came back, and he was just, from his moon excursions, and he was just completely adamant that alien life is real. I think he was in touch with various components of the government, maybe kind of legacy crash retrieval programs himself. Yes. He had that memo at his house. Yeah. Tell me about this memo. Well, it's the. Oh, you're talking about the Wilson Davis memo? Yeah, you know all about that. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I covered that one. Yeah, which is strange that he even had that memo, which is documenting Eric Davis in the parking lot talking to Admiral Thomas J. Wilson, who's head of J-2 Joint Chiefs, should be in charge of all military technology in the government at the time. And he's still around. In the late 90s. He's still around. You know, there were some people that wanted to subpoena him into a skiff. Yeah. And he goes. And I talked to the people. People that subpoenaed him. Yeah. And they said. And he goes, he goes, sure, I'll come into the skiff, but I'm going to tell you the same thing I'm telling you right here that I'm going to tell you in the skiff. So if you want to waste my time and yours, let's go. That's crazy. Isn't that funny? Because in that document, you have him. But he said he would deny it. Yeah. He's like, if this ever comes out, I'll deny, deny, deny. Yeah. But let me tell you something interesting about Edgar Mitchell. And I was really close. I mean, I would call him all the time for advice, and he participated, I was interviewing him in my 20s, I went to his house, and in the middle of the interview, and I was also friends with Buzz Aldrin's sister, Faye Ann Potter, very close. I used to go to her house, I used to look at all the behind-the-scenes photographs of the moon landings and all the stuff, and she would tell. She said that the NASA authorities said that they were all given some kind of pill that they would die if anything happened, and also like. Wait, wait, they would be given a pill? They gave a pill like where if they had to kill themselves, if they missed the Earth. Sorry, if they missed the moon and they shot off into the space. Whoa! They were going to. They would have something. Take a pill. They could die, yeah. In other words, they would have to have a slow death. They could kill themselves. That's what she told me, Faye Ann Potter. Whoa! She showed me all these pictures, and that if Neil Armstrong came out and anything happened to him, Buzz was not supposed to play the hero. He was supposed to leave his ass on the moon and get back, meet up with. Was it Collins? Michael J. Collins. Michael J. Collins, yeah. And so she told me that. She also told me that he had some UFO encounter on the way to the moon. Oh! I know, yeah. And one of my biggest regrets was. Well, I have a lot of them, but. You told that story on the last podcast. Yeah, it was that Faye Ann Potter never. I never got her on camera talking about her brother, Buzz Aldrin. But you chased Buzz Aldrin down. I did chase Buzz Aldrin. And you said, I want to interview you about UFOs. And then he goes, what would my testimony do? When I was watching Joe Rogan talk about. And I respect his opinion. That's totally fine. But I was personally friends with a number of people that landed on the moon. And I got great detail. And could I have been deceived? Sure, I could have been. But I think about, like, when Joe's like, yeah, look at the three of them sitting right after they landed on the moon. I was thinking, well, that's the look on their faces of people that. Maybe they had a UFO encounter on the way to the moon, like Faye Ann Potter had. Yeah, that's the third choice. And they had to shut up about it. That's the third option. Yeah. Because you have. You know Beatrice Villareal? No. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You interviewed her not too long ago. Yeah, she's amazing. She's spotted thousands, 10,000-plus transients every year at the Alomar Observatory, which is the most prominent observatory. And this was between 1949 and 1957. These things aren't sunstreaks. They're not, you know, asteroids, comets, meteors, obviously. They're not satellites because they're pre-Sputnik in 1957. And they look like mirror-like, light-reflecting objects, which are what all the CIA documents describe UFOs as in the late 40s and early 50s. And they're in geosynchronous orbit. And so you, yeah. And so you have to. And they sort of pop up. Yeah. And so you wonder, when you leave, you know, the Van Allen Belt, you know, when you leave the protective magnetosphere of the Earth, do you just encounter tons and tons of UFOs? And if you look at Bluegill Triple Prime, which was the first time we cut a hole in the magnetosphere of the Earth with the, you know, we were trying to see if we could puncture the Van Allen Belt. Guess what came out? UFO material. And Harold Malmgren, this presidential advisor. I'm so glad you got to him. Isn't that wild? And he said he was holding the pieces, the pieces of the UFO. It was an accidental shoot down. He reached for some stuff sitting on his desk. These are things that have come down. But debris or images? Debris. Wow. You know, he said handling them. Wow, that's amazing. So are we just surrounded by UFOs? And maybe that's the secret. Maybe the, you know, the Neil Armstrong cryptic speech about, you know, the layers concealing the truth. There are great ideas undiscovered. Breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers. Are, in fact, the idea that once you get past the Van Allen Belt, you actually encounter just a UFO. And then you have, OK, another one. Very well could be the case. And all I can tell you. All I can say is I was good friends with Edgar Mitchell. I went to his house. I sat down with him. And in the middle of a UFO interview, I was like, I'm sorry to ask this of you. I know you get asked this all the time. But what was it like to go to the moon? I closed my eyes and I listened to every detail. But if that guy was lying, he was a damn good liar. Like, just me in the room with him and the sound guy or audio guy. You know, I'd have to dismiss him. I'd have to dismiss Fan Potter. I'd have to say, like, I'm open to it, though. No, here's where I land. I'm sorry. Yeah, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, you didn't interrupt me at all. I'm just kind of responding to where you're at. It's like, I think the presentation of the first Apollo mission was clearly manicured and sanitized. Can I tell you something about that? Yeah. So I talked to Edgar Mitchell. A lot of this stuff was coming out in the 90s. Yeah. And they were questioning the moon landing stuff. And I was like, yo, what do you think about all this, like, imagery? And da-da-da-da. Yeah. He goes, James, it wouldn't surprise me. He goes, we had Hasselblad. Yeah. We had Hasselblad cameras with no viewfinders, gardening gloves on. Yeah. And, like, the whole world was watching. He goes, it wouldn't surprise me if they recreated some imagery that they could fall back on just in case. For sure. Like, the biggest, most expensive endeavor in the history of mankind. Yes. And, like, and he goes, that wouldn't surprise me. But he goes, I walked on the moon. I swear to God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, if we had one person, and maybe we do, but I don't know of anyone, I don't know how many people were involved in putting a man on the moon. But I'm. I'm assuming it was in the tens of thousands, if not more. And not one person from high level. Well, walking on the moon, way less than 10, you know, not. No, no, no, but. Oh, involved in the program. In the Apollo program. How many. A few hundred thousand were involved. A few hundred thousand. Yeah, yeah. So has anyone from that few hundred thousand come forward and said it didn't happen? Yes. But, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All they have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. Yes, but. No Apollo astronauts, but some people within the NASA. Some people, and, yeah, in fact, there's this guy who Rogan talked about on the show. where he like did this whole review and he, you know, Oh, I saw that podcast that Danny. And you had the Danny Jones, you know. But Bart Cybrell, he's not associated with the program itself. But there are people who were, and there's the Gus Grisham thing. Right, he died the next day, and he put a lemon on the thing. There's some weird facts. And you could, you know, if you think that the UFO program involves, like, so many people, like, there's an argument that could be made that the only thing that would need to be faked would be, like, mission control. And if you could fake mission control, you know, like, all the parts suppliers and all the people, like, doing kind of the ancillary kind of peripheral, you have, you know, like, the spokes of the wheel, so to speak, in the operation, they could easily be lied to. But, yeah, I still shake out. I do, you know, I think we attempted, and then, like, you know, I did, there's. To me, following the evidence, something about the presentation of the whole thing, clearly sanitized. Yeah, and I. Clearly, the video's weird, the two lights, the. Yeah. Two light sources, the, you know, the. There's some anomalies, no question. The flag. Yeah. The, you know, there's just, like, there's a lot, you know, no dust on the lunar lander. I talked to a guy who's a scientist that actually coincidentally worked on that cheesy TV show I did, Ben is the guy, and I was asking him about the moon landing stuff, and he's like, well, you know, and he's a total geeked out scientist, like, he's like, ah, you know, we could see the laser, we could put a laser on some of the things that we left on the surface of the moon. Yeah, the reflectors. Yeah, reflectors. And we have stuff up there, and you can see them. But you could put a, you could put up the reflector with a, with a rover. Yeah. But so something went to the moon, according to this guy, Ben. For sure, something. Well, we put rovers to the, up to the moon, for sure. No question. No, no question about that. Yeah, yeah. No question. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, no. Anyway, you know, I, again, going back to the UFO phenomenon, every time I say something's impossible, therefore, you know, it can't be, therefore, it isn't, I've been proven wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have to open, I have to be like, from what I know, I believe we went to the moon, could I be wrong? I could be wrong. And I'm not going to sit there and say, I'm, you know, I know what I'm talking about, because I really don't. Well, maybe the more interesting middle path would be there are UFOs along the way to the moon, and it's surrounded or something. Yeah. And there, you have John Podesta, who is Clinton's chief of staff, and, you know. Who I interviewed. Oh, really? Interesting. I interviewed him, yeah. What was that like? It was great, because he talked about, you know, they, so, Lawrence Spellman Rockefeller, who put together the briefing document for dignitaries and. High level politicians and all that stuff. I think it was like a global thing. He apparently put significant pressure on the Clinton administration to look into UFOs, and to the point where he said, if you don't do it, I'm going to, I'm going to publish, publicize the fact that you won't do it. I'm going to put it on the cover of every magazine across the country, you know, blah, blah, blah. Apparently. Whoa. Threatened him a little bit. And, and so Podesta said, all right, well, the Clinton administration said, all right, pick a case that we should look into. And they picked. Pick a case. Pick Roswell. Because Roswell, obviously, if it happened, right. And so, and then according to Podesta, Clinton was not happy with the answers they were getting. They were getting the runaround. The president of the United States was getting the runaround. Yeah, no, that's right. And then Podesta basically entered a, you know, multi-decade long personal search for this whole thing. And. Really cool that he spoke out at one of the National Press Club events, I think, that Leslie Kane was involved with, way back, back, back when. Maybe. Yeah. Oh, maybe. I believe it. But he made some. Well, their, their email. Their emails that have since been deleted between him and Tom DeLonge. About UFOs. And these are, this came out over WikiLeaks, but, you know, I think this, this exists in the form of screenshots or maybe the Wayback Machine or something. And it's him meeting with a guy named Bob Fish, who I think might've worked at Aerospace Corporation in El Segundo across from SpaceX, this sort of mysterious federally funded research and development center, Think Tank. And they're talking about fast walkers. And they're talking about. Fast walkers and things in space. Fast walkers. Fast walkers. And, and you, to this day, you cannot use the Freedom of Information Act on fast walkers. You know, John Greenwald tried to do that. He's like the, you know, UFO FOIA guy and, and was rejected. And, and the defense support program, the DSP is the Air Force's outermost defense of like, you know. Like 80,000 miles up. Yeah. It's, yeah, I think a little less than that, I think, but yeah. Or 80,000 feet. I'm so sorry. I meant to say 80,000 feet. Cause isn't that space? That's where space starts. Okay. But I think, I think it's. I think it's like 35,000 kilometers and up is geosynchronous orbit, I think. And that's where they're detecting these fast walkers. And yeah, interesting. Right. And so, and so you have the Malmgren thing where you puncture the Van Allen radiation belt and that UFO material comes out. Was it like a tic-tac? You have the, you have, it's a, it just material that he held is all, is all we know. Lawrence Preston Geis, who ran the Atomic Energy Commission, Albuquerque branch. Did they scoop it out of the ocean? They did scoop it out of the ocean. Yeah. Oh. And General, General Starbird, he was there, flew back to headquarters at like 4 a.m. that night. And William Ogle, who was overseeing the whole thing for Los Alamos Special Projects Division writes about it. And all, all of this is like public. It's, it's, it's really insane. And yeah. And you have this kind of public fight between you have on the one hand, Jeffrey Cruikshank, who's like a nuclear expert, UFO researcher in Australia, and then Dedean Johnson and Merrick von Rennenkamp, they say it's the booster, but he's sure that it can't be the booster. It has to be some sort of anomalous UFO material. But you have video of something coming out of, and then, and then you have this other video where it looks like there's a white triangle superimposing the UFO coming out of the nuclear blast plume. Wow. It's crazy. It's crazy. And that's where the debate gets a little above my head as far as, you know, the Merrick and Dedean Johnson versus the. Well, Cruikshank, I don't know if that, but we need more eyes on that. It's an important thing. When you interviewed Malgrom. Yeah. And I was watching the interview. I was like, I'm so glad you got to him. I was thinking to myself, and this is just me speculating, whatever. I was thinking like about that launch of the Atlas rocket at Vandenberg circa 1964, 64 with the, with the, with the dummy warhead on it. Right. No wonder if it's true, what Malgrom says. Right. They detonated that up into, was it subspace or. Yeah, it was a high altitude nuclear, yeah. A little subspace. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So if that's the case, no wonder why they were shooting at the dummy warhead, according to Jacobs, right? Exactly. The footage that he captured. If I, if one of my comrades was shot down by one of these silly, like missile launch with a nuclear, you know what I mean? Like I'd probably shoot it out of the sky too, which is exactly what they did. I was like, wow, that makes sense. No wonder why they shot it out of the sky. Yes. It took some of their people down. Yes. And then, and then you, then you have this. Disabling nukes, shooting that out of the sky. Like that's pretty phenomenal. Yeah. It's really phenomenal. And Lou Elizondo said he saw that footage. Yeah, I know. He says he saw that footage and he says he knows where it is. And I'm like, Lou, get that thing out. We saw the video. That's crazy. Cause that's what I was going to ask you. He said, he was like, I think Lou has seen the video. So you've seen the video. Yeah. So, you know, this is a real thing. Yeah. Oh my God. Is it, is the video, do you still have the video or. I don't have it. It was, it was in Pentagon with all my other files. When, when the Pentagon said they deleted everything, of course, we know they really didn't because. Really? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my God. Where everything is. And then, and then when I talked to a buddy of mine, apparently somebody went in and they, they cleaned everything out. But what they don't realize is that there's backups in a whole lot of places at that. Oh, okay. The problem is if I say it right now, they'll go and they'll mysteriously, a bunch of people's computers will wind up disappearing tomorrow. So I'm just going to wait until the right time. And, uh, you know, that stuff is alive and well. We need to provide people like Lou and Grush immunity so they can give us all those details that we need. That, that needs to happen. We need to figure that out. Yeah. Just give it like if the presidential executive order say everything you know, and let's, let's reverse it. You have to say everything, you know, or you're in trouble. Everything, you know, that doesn't compromise some like specific vehicle you're working on. That's going to confer a tactical advantage to Russia or China, all the science, let it out and flip it and say, if you don't say everything, you know, you're going to get in trouble. Let's do that. I mean, you know, look, we've got nothing to lose, everything to gain. Obviously there are certain aspects of national security. I understand that they don't want to get in the hands of the wrong people. I get it. You know, if the accounts would be believed that Russia's obviously trying to figure this out. But it's like, it's like nuclear. We don't let out the trade secrets, we don't let out the trade secrets, but nuclear science is taught at universities across the United States. This should be treated the exact same way. Totally agree. I totally agree. And like, you know, like I said earlier in the show, if you don't believe Lou, if you don't believe Grush, you don't believe Hal, you don't believe Eric Davis or any of these other alleged whistleblowers, let's give them immunity and let's put them on the stand. Well, that's Eric Davis in your recent moment of contact. He's asking for that. He says, literally, give me a blanket immunity and I will say everything. I know. Yep. He'll testify tomorrow in an open, under oath. Under oath. To a bipartisan group of lawmakers openly for the whole world to see. And he says he has all this data on crash retrievals, alien bodies. Criticize him all you want. He says, I swear on my family's life that this is the truth. He said on my children's life. On my children's life. Where's the proof? We have alien spaceships in our possession. We have bodies. Where and why can't I get the specifics to verify those claims? If the president. of the United States issued an executive order that absolves me of all of my TSSCI NDAs. NDAs are non-disclosure agreements. Those are the agreements we have to sign for every compartment in our SCI clearances. So if the president waives or absolves my obligation to those NDAs and I get subpoenaed by Congress, somebody on Capitol Hill, some committee, either in the Senate or the House or the both, to reveal everything I know that I learned from my investigations, both unclassified and classified, into the legacy UAP, crash retrieval, and hardware reverse engineering and NHI programs, I would do so. If I could be waived from that or absolved in some fashion by presidential order, and if Congress subpoenas me, yes, I would go and tell them everything I know. This reality is very hard, very physical, very real, and. And this type of evidence, you can't come by in the open literature. It's not public. It's classified. And I can't discuss what it was, but I can tell you, yeah, it's a crash retrieval, there's a craft, and there's alien bodies. That's all I can say about it. You swear on your life that you saw those pictures? Oh, I swear on my life and everybody's, my children's life, so. Yeah, I'm absolutely telling you the truth. I saw the evidence, and it's stark. Just wild. So, yes, that needs. Thank you for remembering that. That's a great line. Absolutely. I swear on my children. Who's going to say that? I mean. Who would say that? You're either a sick person. You're a psychopath? Or you're telling the truth. Yeah. And speaking of, you know, the idea of. No, speaking of psychopaths. No, I'm kidding. Speaking of psychopaths, yeah. No, speaking of your mentioning of Bob Jacobs' Vandenberg case in 64, where you have this dummy nuclear warhead getting shot out of the sky. Yes. Um. Yeah. This is where it gets really trippy. Because either they are defending against some sort of incursion in their airspace. Yeah. or they're actually provoking some of this occurring. So this is really strange. But Malmgren, on his deathbed, told Pippa, his daughter, that he saw an interview from one of the surviving beings from Roswell, and that. Taped? What's that? Taped? A taped interview? A taped interview. Okay, okay. So he saw. Sorry, just. Yeah, yeah, not live. Fun as a player to see. No, no, a taped interview. So Malmgren, on his deathbed. Yes. told his daughter Pippa. Who's alive and a friend of mine, and. that he watched. A tape. a taped interview with a captured alien. With a captured alien. And guess what? Guess what the alien said? He. The alien gave them the idea to do Bluegill Triple Prime and have this, you know, specialized X-ray system that would. not only be used as missile defense, but be used to take out UFO material out of the sky to be reverse engineered. So it's. Isn't that. Like. Like a. Like a deal? Like what. Like giving him information as to how to retrieve the material. So you get into this weird thing where, like. It's about to even say that on camera. I know. Well, there's so much. But why would his daughter make that up? No, why would she make it up? That doesn't make any sense. Well, it's all these things, and. And there was kind of a takedown of the. You know, there's all these people criticizing Malmgren afterwards. They said that. Easy to do, right? Well, yeah, well, I can also. I mean, when they're dead. Sure. I can also crush all their arguments. They literally. You know, this is. You know, I don't want to be too tribalistic. Like, I do think all of this stuff has to be thought about probabilistically. And, like, if there are good points, please make them against this guy. There's no. There are no sacred cows. He's making an extraordinary claim. But this guy was an elite statesman, who knew people, you know, at the top of the chain. Like, literally, you know, knew Nixon personally. He was LBJ, JFK, Nixon, and Ford, you know, presidential advisor. And he said. He's not an anybody. He was a little bit junior in the JFK administration and was more, you know, in touch with Shriver. But, like, yeah, was not a nobody. You know, talks about stories with the, you know, Russian foreign minister Dobrynin. His mentor was Richard Bissell, who was. founded Area 51 and was the deputy director of the CIA, the number two at the entire CIA. We have diaries of his that say, meeting with Bissell all over his diary, his journal. So, he definitely knew Bissell. If he had gotten his Q clearance through the CIA, there's no way to use the Freedom of Information Act against it. Is that the highest level clearance, Q? Yes. Well, I think there. Possibly, you know, UAP group talks about different designations within Q. In Q clearance. Like a SAP? Like, I think there's this, like, special foreign intelligence design. So, the CIA works with the DOE and there's a counterintel division, actually, of the CIA that, like, works with the Department of Energy. And I think there are different Q clearances you can have. Because DO. Sorry, Department of Energy. Because I was told. I think it was Chris Mellon was telling me this, that they hide things because anything nuclear would be national security. Yeah, so if you look at the Department of Energy. If you look at the. So, you could hide these SAPs and WUSAPs under the Department of Energy? Is that. Yeah, but if you look at the special definition of nuclear material in 1954 Atomic Energy Act, it's anything emitting any sort of radiation, alpha, beta, gamma radiation, whatever, upon retrieval of that thing, that is restricted data. So, it's born secret. Automatically secret. So, if you're an aerospace contractor, you don't need some sort of official clearance designation, you know, you just. Automatic. You're automatically. Under that envelope. Or that umbrella. Yeah. Wow. So, you have this. You know, this blog came out trying to debunk Malmgren, but if he got a skill clearance through the CIA, they'd have no idea that, you know, you can't use the freedom of information against that. This was at the time where, you know, not official covers, this idea of it being a knock for the CIA was, like, rampant. Like, a ton of these guys. And he was at a federal-funded research and development center called the IDA, the Institute for Defense Analysis, which has instituted every. Or has helped with every single missile defense system that the U.S. has built since then, since Bluegill Triple Prime. And he said in a 2024 interview before he interviewed with me that his work at the IDA was actually a cover for what he was doing for the National Security Council in the White House. So, you have all these arguments that, oh, he was just at the IDA, he was, like, some junior guy. Like, no, he's already talked about this. And his mentor, by the way, was extremely high up there. He was really high up at the CIA. This is what you're really good at. You're really good at putting these complex pieces of the puzzle together. It's like, oh, this is, like, this is, like, that makes sense, and this is over here. It's like, duh. Well, it's important. Well, it's totally important. Are you kidding me? And I love the deep dives that you do. Just like when I put the maps up for Virginia, this witness was here. This witness turns out to be there. It's like, oh, my gosh, it all lines up. You have a full picture. Just like what you're doing on the inside, like, you're creating that full picture, which is mandatory for what you do. Like, when I'm in the field putting the pieces of the puzzle together, when we met Italo, it made perfectly good sense because we knew for decades that it went initially alive to regional, right? Then it was humanitized. Now we have to get to humanitized. We're working on that now. You're putting the piece, and they're all, it's all painting the picture, right? Like, it's incredible. Just like what you're doing. Yeah. You're putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. Where are the different, like, it's, it's incredible. And I'm always impressed when I watch how you do that. Like, I'm doing it in my little way, and you're doing, you know. We're all doing it. Yeah, no, it's really cool to watch. That was like, there was a couple of deep dive interviews that you did that I was just like, holy smokes. You know, it was very impressive. With Hal, or was it Hal? Eric Davis. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that whole thing. Just the deep dives and the stuff that you do is very impressive to watch. Well, I'm excited. It's fun to watch. It's fun to watch all this stuff accelerate. We're in this together. Yes. We support each other. Yes. I remind people out there that we're stronger together. Be kind, particularly those you disagree with. It's okay that we disagree. That's fine. Yes. Nothing wrong with that. Yes. And, you know, I'm not out here screaming E.T. from the hilltops. I'm not. I'm curious. I want to know desperately what's behind it all. And it's easy to, it's easy to, it's easier and lazier to impugn somebody's motives and say that they're a bad actor than to actually tackle the substance. Or give them a platform so they can, they can cough up the goods. Yeah, exactly. Why not? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yes. So I'm just going to criticize you and I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to, you know, continue. Like, people give these breadcrumbs. I think about, like, David Grush, for instance, you know, he comes forward. It's like, all right, well, you know what? You know, extraordinary claims, if you want to say, you know, give us the extraordinary evidence. But why not create that platform for David Grush to build to do that? He's refrained, he's restrained, he's scared for his safety, his family's safety, like, he could get locked up. I mean, those are real concerns that these people have. Yeah, you think he's going to fall on his face? Okay, give him the one-time clearance, let him go back into his skin. Like, or put him out to testify in a row. Like, why wouldn't we do that? Yeah. You know? So, anyway, I, yeah. Have you, okay. Yes, sir. You got, I got more for you. Go for it. Because you've seen so much history. So, have you ever seen a saucer and a hanger? Shit. I wish. Are you kidding me? Come on. Because of all people, if I was on the inside, I'd say James. No, I can neither confirm nor deny. You've done your work. No kidding. No, I wish. Have you ever been taken into a skiff? Yes. You have? Yes. Have you ever seen anything interesting in a skiff? Yes. Yes. What did you see? I can't talk about that because they asked me not to, but I said, if that goes out, that's not going to look good for you guys. That flies in the face of all the testimony that I've ever heard. So not as good as things you've seen in the open source. Yeah. It was really funny too, because I just put out the program and I met with a number of government insiders that are, intelligence insiders, excuse me, that described the exact computer, the computer that has access to all the good, you know what I mean? Yeah. UFO files and stuff like that. And I was sitting there looking at it in the skiff and I'm thinking, good, if I can have just a few minutes with that computer, you know what I mean? Yeah. No, it was really crazy. I was one of kind of a pinched. Yourself moment when I was in there with John Koskowski, the new head of Arrow, which I liked him actually. You thought he was cool? I did way cooler than Sean Kirkpatrick, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sean Kirkpatrick, man, that guy, maybe that guy was read in or something. I don't know. That guy was, I don't trust that guy at all. I don't either. John Koskowski was really nice guy. I looked him in the eyes. He seemed like a sincere, honest, nice guy. I did not get a bad vibe from him, but I was talking openly because I was like, whatever, I have to lose. They know who I am. Like I was talking about Rua, I was talking about, you know, Virginia, I was talking about Socorro, all these different cases. And I was like, you know, you know, you're going to draw the conclusion after all the other, you've exhausted every other possibility that we are dealing with a small percentage of probably non-human intelligence, right? I mean, you know that. Like, what's the plan to tell the public? And they were both very quiet. And John goes, he goes, you know, James, you're very soft. And like, non, I liked him. I got a good vibe from him. And he's like, you know, James, I can't part my hair without the approval of the DOD. Whoa. And then he goes, and you can quote me on that. Okay. You're quoting him on that. But I was in the skiff and it was just like in the movies, you know, I went in, I went in, it was not too far from the Pentagon and I had to get a 48 hour background check, which I passed, thank God. And then I had to go. I had to go through all the security, take everything off and go through all the, oh my gosh, that took forever. And then they had these like glass tube like things. I felt like it was a Star Trek or something. I think they went to the ceiling or they were pretty high up, glass tubes. And you walk up to it and one side opens and you step in and then that closes and another one opens and now you're in the inside. And then I go to a locker. They probably got my phone data and I took all my, all my electronics and I put it in the locker and, you know, and then we went to a bar. We went to a big door with a thing and, you know, just like you, almost like a bank vault looking door and it opened up and it was a, it was a, it was, I thought it was going to be like a kind of a small room, but it was huge. It was like the whole, the whole office area was all one big skiff. Right. And they walked me in there and I was just like, oh my God, this is crazy. Actually before, before we went into the skiff and I had just gone through security, I had this badge and I was like, I really want a picture of this badge. Cause I just want to, you know, I want to have it from memory. So I, okay, can I use the bathroom? You know? Oh, sure. It's, I went in the bathroom, click, took a picture of the badge, which I have. Cause I don't know. It's, it's not illegal. Right. So I take a picture of the badge, but anyway, they take me in this, down this hallway. There's a bunch of different cubicles and take me down this hallway. And then there was like a door on my right and a door on my left. The door on my right was closed. The door on the left was open. And there was like a, I don't know if it was a round table or if it was slightly like, um, like, uh, what do you call, um, um, oblong or whatever, but anyway, there were four or five people, couple of girls, couple of guys in suits, nicely dressed, sitting there. And they said, Hey, wait right here. And like I said, I had a door to my, on my right. And I had this open door on my left and I couldn't help myself. I was just like, you know, kind of listening to the other covers. I just want, I was scared. What else am I supposed to do? I stopped where they told me to stop and I'm, and then. And then they looked at me and they got up and they close the door of my face and then, uh, and then John Koskowski with another guy from OSI came and, and met with me and open, open the door in that room. And then we went inside there and that's when we had, I don't know, maybe a 30 minute conversation. And in that conversation, was he admitting that the UFO stuff is real? They didn't say no. And they didn't say yes. They were just sat there quietly. Okay. Yeah. Cause I was like this case, this case. And then they did say that the phenomenon was mandatory viewing for anyone who worked for Arrow. Interesting. Well, that's cool. Isn't that cool? That's pretty awesome. I was like, wow. Yeah. That was a nice little. I'm telling you, you're doing as much work for, they're, they're learning from you. Hang on a second. Are you ready? There you go. Nice. I don't know. I love my little T-shirts. I got to buy one. No, I'll give you some. The first time I went on Rogan, I, I was like, I'm not going to be the guy who gives them a T-shirt on camera. I'm going to do it afterwards. Yeah. So I always do that. You know what I mean? So I gave him a T-shirt afterwards. On camera is basically like, here's an advertisement for me. I was like, Hey, you know, and, uh, and I don't even own the phenomenon anymore and none of the proceeds go to me, but I still want people to watch it. Cause I'm very proud of that body of work and everyone that's in the credits deserves it. But, um, but I gave it to Joe Rogan and, uh, you know, really appreciate and, uh, oh, so. You know, when we went to dinner with Joe Rogan the night before with Jacques Follet and one other guy from his team, it was great, man. We, we drank really nice wine. It was five course. Oh, it was incredible meal. Oh my Lord. We had so much fun. I was the wonderful Joe, such a nice guy, man. Like just really a nice guy. Yeah. You know, I don't care what anybody says about you, you meet him and you hang out with him. This guy's cool. Super cool. Nice guy. And super fulfilled and like humble and just kind and generous. And anyway, I got up from the meal and I went discreetly out, like I was going to the bathroom and I paid for the meal and it wasn't cheap and, uh, and, and came back and he, you know, after like 20 more minutes, he's like, Hey, can, you know, can we get the bill here, please? And the guy goes, it's been taken care of. And Joe looks over at me and I got the impression like, no, but he does. How did he react? Well, he was shocked. He was like, you, you know. Oh my God. Nobody, you know, it was like, oh, but Hey man, it's the least I could do. Thank you. You know, anyway. Um, but I gave him the t-shirt and two or three days later, I could, everyone's blowing me up. Joe Rogan's wearing your t-shirt on his podcast. And there he was rocking the phenomenon on his podcast. How cool is that? It's so cool. He just did the same with the ours merch last week and it was just so, it was so, it's so nice of him. It's so cool. He has helped so many people. He's created so many careers. He has so many. I'll give you an example. When I, I got an Uber ride, uh, with Joe, uh, Joe flew me in first class, which is incredible. Then I had a driver pick me up and the driver, he was like, oh, you're going on Joe. Oh God. I love that guy. And I was like, oh, and he goes, let me tell you, man, I was really down on my luck and I was just, things weren't going well. And I was just really struggling. And he goes, I, I was, I was on to take Joe. To some place. And I got the address wrong. And I, I got him lost and I, you know, 15 minutes longer than it should have been. And I felt terrible. He was, you know, Joe Rogan, such an important guy. He's got all this stuff going on and man, I felt terrible. And Joe's like, Hey man, wait here. I got, I'll be right back. I need to go to this one location. Come back. And Joe came back and he tipped him like $2,000. He gave him some huge tip and he goes, that saved my life. I was behind on my rent. I was like really struggling financially. He goes, Joe did that for me. And I'm a renter. Random stranger, like just screwed up his, his ride. And I heard that's wild. Yeah. And I heard that from just about everybody that I encountered in the Austin area about how Joe would do a random act of kindness and generosity, help people like, no, he is like, he's like that. He called me out of the blue and was like, just super complimentary. Like, like just so nice. And, and, uh, yeah, he's so generous. And, um, what? What else? I mean, there's that story of this miss Pat, this comedian. She, uh, I think right when COVID hit or whatever was struggling or whatever. And she was like, the only guy that called me, it was Joe Rogan, you know? And like, Oh, really? Yeah. He really, he really cares. And he does care. And he really does sincerely care. And then you hear all those stories behind the scenes of people that have had encounters with him and said nothing but nice things to say, not nothing but nice things to say. And I say the same thing. Like, I'm incredibly grateful for the exposure. He's. He's given all of us. All of us. I think he's more than anybody bent the timeline towards disclosure and even an interest in any of this stuff. No question. And it allows like more, you know, I find, I think I'm sort of this niche, like, you know, compared to. Another thing that I really love about Joe is that Joe has president Trump on Joe has Bernie Sanders on. Yeah. Joe has opposing viewpoints. He's kind to everybody. Like, yeah, he gives them a platform because I think like, it's so easy nowadays. like, oh, you're on the left, or you're on the right, or you're in the middle, You're whatever. And, you know, you're the devil. We disagree. Therefore, you're the devil. And I just like that bothers me because I'm friends with all. You're cool and you're a nice person. We're good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have friends with people that are both sides of the spectrum. We don't even care. We're high five. We're really close. Like I don't believe in the demonizing of someone just because they have a different viewpoint than you do. That's just so wrong. I know. It's so wrong. Yeah. We don't need to do that. When the internet allows you to do that, you compress somebody into this 2D thing. Yeah, you're there. Exactly. You're like this avatar that like, you know, you're some evil like, you know. Totally. You're not actually just like this full dimensional. You're a human being. Like you have a human being with like a family. Totally. It's like we're all, it's all good. I know, I know. But then none of those people would say those things to your face. Your face. You know, it's just, it's a keyboard warrior. That's a very good point. BS. It's like, yeah. That is a very good point. Yeah. When you meet them, like, I always say like, like I've said some things very rarely and particularly not publicly, but I said, I said this, you know, to this person's face, I was like, Hey, you know, I really hurt because of X, Y, and Z. And I really appreciate it if you, you know, cause I feel like if I have an issue with anybody, I'm going to tell, say, say to their face. Totally. Cause that's the way it should be. Yes. I'm not going to sit there and like, Oh, he said this and that. No, no. He's like, I got an issue. Let's hash it out. Let's hash it out. I'm pissed off. X, Y. And we all make mistakes. I piss people off inadvertently. Of course. You know, like, Oh shit, I'm so sorry. They were offended or I said the wrong thing. And like, Hey, all you can do is go back and make an apology. I'm really sorry. I hope you forgive me. And nine times out of 10 people are like, you know what? That's cool. We're good. Yeah. It's all. Yeah, totally. Yeah. A hundred percent. Have, okay. Have you ever been asked to bury a story? Sort of. Sort of. Okay. What does that mean? Like, Hey, I've had like this, this meeting never happened. Okay. Uh, we don't, don't discuss any of the details that I just gave you. And I feel like if I violated that trust, I wouldn't get in the door with these people. No, I, you know what I mean? Valuing relationships. So for sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm, I mean more like you were covering a thing independently. Somebody entered your life and said, you can't come to this. Okay. Kind of. Because it was an aspect of the story that I got from the inside. That they didn't want that aspect out as part of the story that I was covering. And I made them the promise that I wouldn't. What was that for the program? No. Okay. No. Earlier. Earlier than that. Earlier and later. Okay. I'm not trying to be. No, no, no. It's okay. They just asked me not to mention it. Okay. And I respect that. How did they find out? How did they find out that you were covering the thing? Oh, oh, my, my work is public. Okay. Okay. So you were like, you were starting to surface. It was a follow-up on a previous thing that I'd reported on. And they were like, don't take that further. Don't, don't, don't mention that we showed you this and don't mention that we. Okay. You know. Okay. So I said I wouldn't. Damn. I know. Do you want, do you think that that, if people knew that thing, that would move the needle as far as overall disclosure? Uh, no, no, not really. Okay. Um, I, I think the, uh, I think the Holman landing footage exists and I've talked to a number of people and I didn't, when I first heard about it, I was like, come on, no landing contact, please. Yeah. Like, come on. Yeah. You know, uh, but now I'm convinced the Holman did happen. And I think that would obviously move the needle, particularly if, you know. Why are you convinced? Well, because I was investigating Socorro and that happened in 64. April 24th, 1964. And in the process, I spent five years investigating that case on and off. I met with Ray Stanford, RIP, uh, who was the, one of the lead investigators, wrote the book, Socorro Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry. And in the process of investigating, I was reading all the articles. I went to the house. I befriended his wife, Mary, daughter, son, Michael. And I'm reading, I'm going through all the newspaper clippings. I'm going to the national archives. And I mean, I'm really, I'm doing a deep dive into that case because my God, it's a very good case. And I came upon a couple of articles, uh, coincidentally, haphazardly, you know, written by a corral Lorenzen of the UA UFO bulletin. I think it was called. And, um, she had talked about, uh, this landing at Holman. She interviewed someone that was in an airplane that witnessed it. And someone that was on the ground at the base that witnessed it, both military officials. And apparently she was a respected journalist. And, and I was like, Hmm, this is interesting. Like this is an original, you know. I was looking at it like, Hmm. And that led me to, uh, Bob, uh, uh, come on. Uh, the two guys that made the film, uh, UFOs past, present, and future. Emmenager and Alan Sandler and Emmenager in particular. And then of course that led me to, to Colonel William Coleman, who had that dramatic encounter, uh, with UFO and B-55 over Alabama. But also he was later on part of Project Blue Book. He was a public spokesman for the, for the Pentagon during the time the film was being made. And I started poking around and started as a side investigation, I started to look into the landing case that they kind of, um, put forth as a concept that may, uh, something that might've happened already that maybe it would happen in the future in their film. Right. And, uh, and then that led me to, uh, to do Emmenager who talked with the guy, Paul Shardle, who was at the archive process, the film of the landing talked about it in great detail. I interviewed Bob Emmenager, which I'm going to release for. Oh, my archives coming up soon. It's been so busy. That's amazing. I digitized them all. And now they're all digitized. Now I just have to go through them and edit them and I'm going to, and I'm going to put them all out there for free for everybody. Um, uh, but anyway, and, and based on that, and then Alan Sander was shown the footage by Paul Shardle, he's convinced that it was a real flying saucer. No question about it. Three came in over the base, two peeled away, one came down and landed and he goes, James, just like in a, in a sci-fi movie, there was no, there was like a seamless door that just opened and dropped. Alan Sandler happens to think that it was our technology in this, whenever it was shown to him in the seventies, I think he was shown it in 72, 73, but it was taken in the sixties, I believe is what Paul Shardle said. Um, and, uh, he thinks it was our technology, our flying saucers that we had, and they dressed people up to look like aliens as a staged event. But he goes, it wasn't doctored. It was a real flying saucer that really flew and that really came down and landed. Yeah. Over the base. And it was filmed on a tripod, which means they anticipated it coming. Cause you don't have a tripod camera sitting on a tripod unless they're filming something else unrelated. And then the event happened. Either that, or they just saw it happening because I asked those details and he said they were met with a bunch of, uh, military base commanders in uniform, got into a Jeep. Off they went, discs just sat there on the ground and then the film footage ends. He thinks it was staged. He thinks it was a real disc, real technology, real flying saucer that really flew in the sixties. And then it was, uh, that's what he thinks. Why does he, why does he think that? I don't know. I guess it was hard for him to imagine that real aliens. I don't, I really don't know. Okay. But he said that they had. Uh, yes. Egyptian headdresses. Big noses, slits from mouth. Tall. Tall. Yeah. Kind of tall. Not, not short. So what was that? And some sort of device that they assumed would have been a communication device. Okay. But if he's saying that, is that like, were there makeup artists involved? Like why? Evidently there would have been according to him. But they dressed them up in it was like bullshit. That was a real event. It was an extraterrestrial Paul shuttle who had the footage, who processed the footage and ordinary air force base. Absolutely to his death said that was a real event. And then of course I've talking to other people that have subsequently since then, particularly he's come out with it. Eric Davis said that, uh, either he was told about it. President Bush was either senior, was either told about it or shown it. I can't remember. Do you know? I don't know. He told President Bush about it. I know there's some relation there, but I don't know. As head of the CIA, he was made aware of it accidentally and that's how he became aware of it. But I don't know if he was shown it. Eric Davis would know. Hmm. So fascinating. Well, we could go back and forth all day, man. I love talking to you and you're such a treasure trove of deep knowledge when it comes to UFOs and inspiration. I don't really feel like that. I know what I know talking directly to witnesses around the world and that's it. But you have a much deeper understanding of so many of the. Yeah. Plotsies and intricacies from what you do and I respect it, but it's great. We compliment each other. I don't know. I don't know anything, man. Neither do I. I know, I know less than I did when I, it's the more, you know, the less, you know, you know. Totally. And, uh, the more, the more questions you have and the weirder it gets, you expect it to neatly collapse into, oh, it's like either all manmade, you know, anti-gravity vehicles plus, plus MK ultra or whatever. Right. And then you go, or, or it's just these beings and they're like from this specific place. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, no. And it's like, I haven't gotten either of those. Like it just keeps getting weirder and weirder as I'm sure you've experienced. And so. Please, you know, don't put me in that position under the night sky and the remote desert and look up and just realize just how vast the known universe is and the possibilities of life. One of the things that we covered it out of the blue very early on was like the equations of the possibilities of life in the universe. And it's like a hundred percent. Like, it just comes out at 100. There was that book written by Amir Exel, Probability One, years ago, back in the 90s. You know, and it was like, mathematically, we are not alone. Look, you know, come on. Yes. Could be all of you. And life is bizarre. Life is absurd and bizarre. Consciousness itself is weird. Yeah. What is happening? Nobody can, you know, has a great answer for that. And I think the framing of disclosure, it's both exciting because maybe we're on the precipice of this, you know, big reveal. But it's also kind of a misnomer because I think, you know, per the messages that maybe a lot of these beings seem to transmit, we're in more of a position ourselves to know the truth than we might realize. And I don't think the government has monopoly on an understanding of metaphysics. I do think they have asymmetric understanding of maybe some technology and they might have some more materials and might have some more footage and concrete evidence than civilians do. But the idea that they have some sort of like ontology. Ontological understanding of the universe that like, you know, people can't achieve without them giving that info. I mean, great. Let's let's get the info. Amazing. But it's also like a low agency thing. You know, it's like we can we can do it ourselves, too. And anyone can understand this stuff if they reach for it. So I don't know. Or understand it or understand more of it. You know, when you pull on one thread, you get like three more in its place. But, you know, I think. I think we can ascend much greater to much greater heights kind of intellectually than, you know, we give ourselves credit for. One little thing. I'm kidding. You got some gummy bears, some James Fox gummy bears. I just got this little, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it goes. Speaking of which, my swag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I want to thank you for having me on. I want to thank you for all your support. I really appreciate it. Oh, man. I really mean that. No, it's an honor to get to know you. And, yeah, really, you know, ride in your. Your wake that you've created, you know, aerodynamically. I get to. I get to. Hey, we're all in this together. We all make our contribution. Absolutely. We'll go check out. What's that? What's that? It's moment of contact. New revelations of alien encounters. It's got. We did a complete. Yeah. We really felt like I felt like, you know, processing. You got all the congressional hearings. Right. And that, like, I think about mainstream. I think about skeptics. Fair enough. It's very healthy to be skeptical. But I think about trying to process. Like those allegations made under oath by Grush and Lou and all the others of crash retrievals and live aliens and biologics. Right. So I kind of like took the first 20 minutes completely new, condensed those, those hearings as you saw, condense those hearings. And then, hey, you know what? As extraordinary as it sounds, it's not the first time. And I give really quick examples of various, you know, magenta. We go to Italy. We, you know, Roswell. Very quickly. I don't get bogged down in those old cases. But boom, boom, boom. You know, Kecksburg, Kingman, the landing at Bentwaters. Just really good statements of craft landing or crash on the ground. And then, but the best case, you know, and then we do a deep dive into Virginia with all the new testimony from two forensic pathologists, from the chief of police, new crash witness, plus the lead neurosurgeon at regional hospital. And none of these people are coming forward in this. New cut. No one is coming forward anonymously. They're putting their names, their reputations, their faces out there for the whole world to see. Well, thank God they did. And thank God you went out there and got the footage and keep going back there. And yeah, it's just, uh, it's an honor to speak with you. Go watch this movie because I think it's going to be, I think it's gonna be earth shattering, especially watching Italo Venturelli, this neurosurgeon, just his revelation just feels so real. It's so important. This, this, this testimony of being face to face with an alien being for that long. I'm told it's the first time in history. Like, you know, we never had with Roswell, right? We didn't have it with the gender on any of these other cases where we have, we don't have video of, you know, yes. Yeah. I mean, obviously it would be great to get the ultimate prize, right? I mean, no, no, no, but you have video of him and he's still alive now. He's still alive. He's like, I asked him, would you put your hand on a Bible? Would you testify? You know, would you take a lot? Yes. All the above. Yes. And now the whole entire doctor, medical community in the region are all supporting him, getting behind him. And I'm told there are other doctors that are considering when the time is right to come forward. So we're at the beginning of the beginning. I'm, I'm, I'm quite honestly, very excited about it and we'll see how it's received. Yeah. Well, let's hope your dream becomes a reality and somebody slips a thumb drive. That's real in your pocket. Or maybe it goes down in a, in a, in a, in a way that's more manageable for you. I don't know. But I'm trying, even if it gets out there and by the way, I'm going to make this abundantly clear, unless I have to, if somebody gives me the footage, I'm giving it away for free. I'm not going to charge a dime for it. I love that. If I have to pay for it, I'll have to recoup my investment to pay those people back and then I'll put it out there for free. But if I get it, I'll give it to the world for free. I swear on my, unless I have to pay for it, reimburse the investors. Yeah. Then I'll reimburse it and then I'll put it out there for free. Yeah. Go to jamesfox.com. It's behind a paywall. No, that won't happen. That's awesome. No, I think that's the right attitude along with like, you know, wanting other people to follow up on your research and you're, you're the paradigmatic example of that. Cause you're having a Mar who's a good friend of mine and kind of such a cool guy. Yeah. The best. And he's kind of a correspondent for the show, but he's kind of, I think he's going to start his own thing. Yeah. I hope. And, um, he's going to go get some amazing footage with you. And so you've been so welcoming. So me and him, as far as, you know, come with me and that's not normal in the space. So this, uh, there's, there are a lot of people who, you know, they call it, it's like, I want to get the quote unquote scoop and like, I'll even see, like, I'll cover a thing and then somebody will try to like front run the thing. It's like, and I'm always like, great, good. You cover it too. We'll both cover it. It's like, whatever. Power of numbers. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, we, you know, so I appreciate you. And, um, this was, this was amazing, man. And, uh, I'm excited to, to do this and hopefully do this many more times. Thank you, brother. All right. Thank you, James. Bye. All right. Over the last couple of months, we've been designing the new American Alchemy merch drop, and I'm excited to say that the 2025 winter drop is finally ready. We now have 30 uniquely designed pieces that really reflect what American Alchemy is all about. This drop includes epic t-shirts, long sleeves, crew necks, hoodies, tapered sweatpants, hats, totes, mugs, and tumblers. The Fukushima. Japan pieces, for example, have detailed left chest embroidery. The morning of earth designs went through multiple revisions to get the fit exactly right. And the iron horse tee is something I think will be a hit for anyone who loved the UFO cowboy or our atomic age shirts from our last drop. We cut a lot of things that didn't meet our standards and we're really, really proud of each of these items. Everything is pretty limited, so there's no endless restocks. Once it's gone, it's entirely gone. If you missed anything from our original drops and you want to go out and represent, now's the time. Go to AmericanAlchemyMerch.com to check it all out. Thank you.