Ariana Madix: The Vanderpump Affair (FBF)

Daddy Gang, I am so excited because Ariana Maddox is our guest on call her daddy today. If you are a fan of the reality show Vanderpump rules, you know exactly who Ariana is. You don't need any preface to this interview. You're ready to dive in, but for those of you who may not be familiar and have never watched the show, I got you. You're stressing out. You're like, I can't watch this interview because I'm not going to know anything. I don't know the backstory. Daddy Gang, I got you. I'm going to break this down for you so you can follow along and also enjoy this episode. So here we go. Vanderpump rules is a reality television show that is on its 10th season, naturally with reality shows. There's been tons of emotion and drama throughout the years. And there have also obviously been hookups, breakups, and cheating scandals, which brings me back to my guest today, Ariana Maddox. Ariana stars on the show alongside her former long-term boyfriend, Tom Sandeball. And let me be so clear. When I say long-term, Daddy Gang, I don't mean like, oh, they've been going steady for a couple of years. No, no, no. I mean, they were dating for nine years. They bought a house together. They had dogs together. They were planning on freezing embryos together. And they planned to spend the rest of their lives together. That is until Ariana found out that Tom had been cheating on her for nearly seven months. And Daddy Gang, he wasn't fucking some stranger or some chick-off of Instagram. No, it is truly everyone's worst nightmare. He was cheating with one of Ariana's closest friends and fellow cast me, Raquel. A huge betrayal, as well as a complete and total blind side. But also fucking classic, right? The boyfriend and the best friend are cheating. Awful. This affair has been secretly happening the entire time season 10 was being filmed. And no one knew. But now, as we've seen, the news has leaked, everyone is dying to see how this drama continue to unfold somehow a news story is new every fucking week on this shit. And we've obviously seen glimpses almost every single cast mate has spoken out about this. They have gone on podcasts, news channels, radio, I mean, this is everywhere. Even CNN and the New York Times have reported on this cheating scandal. Apologies have been posted, sides have been taken. Everyone is extremely shook and extremely invested. But the one person that we have not heard from in long form and the most important person that we need to hear from for a sit down in depth interview is Ariana. I also want to point out, obviously, this is such a noisy scandal and everyone's like excited to hear. I just want to remind everyone, this is Ariana's life. This was her relationship. This was her best friend. And when this happened at the time, it probably felt like her world was turned upside down. So even if you don't watch reality TV, that's okay because unfortunately, this episode is extremely relatable because it's about cheating, betrayal, dishonesty, manipulation, and heartbreak. So Daddy Gang, I'm excited to give you Ariana and I'm excited to give her a space to open up and speak about this and have a really open on his conversation. So here we go. Let's get into it. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy. Hi. Hi. Ariana Maddox. Welcome to Call Her Daddy. Hi. Thanks for having me. How are you doing? I'm okay. Can you explain what the past few months have felt like to you? A roller coaster. I mean, truly like the lowest lows, I think maybe ever, maybe since my dad died that I've experienced. And then I wouldn't say the highest highs, but I would definitely say that there has been like some really amazing bright spots and it sometimes feels like I don't know like a ping-pong match in between those two extremes. Right. I have a tendency to like compartmentalize a little bit with emotions. It's the Virgo moon in me, but it's weird because also sometimes when I'm like, oh gosh, I'm doing, I'm feeling good, like things are really positive, then people on the internet will be like, why is she must have not cared, they're like mad at me for like healing, but then they like, you know, but that's the thing is it's like everyone's always going to have an opinion about like how you should live totally. Something I want to talk about is like, I think so many people have had something to say for so long about this scandal and like, we haven't really heard from you about like start to finish in long form your thoughts, everything that's gone down. So today I'm hoping we can like put it all into one. You're like, okay, let me just, let's take a little holiday, cheers, here we fucking go. Can you take me back to the night that you found out that Tom was cheating on you with your at the time best friend, Rick Hell. Like, I know you were at a concert of Tom's. His phone fell out of his pocket, someone handed it to you to just take your boyfriend's phone and hold it, take us from there. So they had like one more song after that and so I was holding like my phone and his phone just kind of as a stack and had no, like there's nothing weird about that. I mean, we were together for nine years, like me holding onto his phone, his, you know, his laptop, his, you know, whatever, it's not weird. So they had like one more song and then afterwards I got up to go over Tim and tell him like good job and give him his phone back and he was talking to some other of the band members so he was a little preoccupied, he was a little busy and I was like, okay, and then literally I just, in that moment I was standing in the back of Tom, Tom and I just was like, I don't know what I was just like, it felt like I like divine intervention or something because you know, I've always been very hesitant to become like the snooper because I always feel like anytime you snoop and anyone's stuff, even if they're not guilty of doing anything wrong, you always end up finding something you don't want to find or seeing something you don't want to see. And I always feel like it's a slippery slope because once you look once, then you want to look, it becomes an addiction because I've been like that in past relationships. So in this one, I was always like, I'm not going to do that and if I ask about something, I will, you know, take their word, Tom's word at, you know, this value. Exactly. Yeah. Like I will be someone who trusts because I don't want to become that version of myself. Totally. And so, but in that moment, I just had this thought, like this like go do it. This is like a time to do it. And so I went into the bathroom at Tom Tom. I went into one of the stalls. He had not changed the passcode on his phone. So I knew, and that's the other thing is like we knew each other's passcodes. We knew each other's. So it felt like if you were going to be the type of person who is going to have an affair or be cheating or hiding things, you wouldn't also be so readily giving of your stuff like that. And so I looked in his messages. There was nothing weird in his messages, and I was like, okay, I mean, you're being dumb. You know? And then I opened up his camera roll and then that's when I saw what I saw. And I like busted out of the stall and there were like some girls in there that were just kind of going to go to the bathroom and I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. And then because I didn't go to the bathroom and I thought they're going to think I'm leaving the bathroom and not washing my hands. I was like, I promised I didn't pee or anything, I just, and then I just ran out of the bathroom and went straight up to him and he was like, oh, hey, do you want to go smoke a cigarette or something? And I was like, yeah, I do actually. And it's funny because there's a photo of him that I've seen like used in articles and stuff. And it's from literally the moment I was walking up in his arms like this. And I see that photo and I'm like, that was literally like the moment before. And then we went, and then he was very, we went straight out to the back behind Tom Tom. That's when I confronted him. What the fuck is this? Okay. Pause for two seconds. Yeah. I feel like no one is saying specifically what the video is. Are you guys not legally allowed to be talking about what the video is? I don't know. Axe, you can. I don't know. Can I say what I'm speculating? Yeah. I can say. I think the speculation is in the camera rule. There was a screen recording that he screen recorded while they were on FaceTime of them having FaceTime's X. That's what I'm thinking. And I think I know is what it was. But you don't have to confirm. But just to give people context that may have no idea about this drama yet. I don't know how you would. You live in Iraq. But that, so you view something like that. Yeah. Can you just take me back in the stall? It's, bring me to the moment where you come across realizing he's cheated on you with Raquel. What were you thinking in the stall? I was like shaking like full body. Like just like, I don't know if it's anger, shock. Like I think shock is a big part of it because I mean, I've been cheated on in my life before and I've caught somebody before like that and like way in my past. And I guess it's like that feeling I hadn't felt and like we're talking like 15 years and like it's hard to describe but it's literally like a combination of shock and anger and somehow disbelief that this is like truly what you're seeing. And yeah, and then like there's just, I don't know, it's really like a huge mix of emotions. - It is, and like did you think this was a one-off or did you immediately think this has been a relationship? - I mean, there's no way that it could be a one-off given the closeness of like all of our relationship to her, you know what I mean? So there's no way and also to feel so comfortable doing that on a face time, you know, there's no, there's just no way of it being like a one-time, oh we just decided one day to face time. So I was like, right, it was like, drunkenly, I'm like, who should I call? What I'm gonna call Rick Hell and just like. - Yeah, yeah, no, okay, yeah. So you start confronting him, what does he say? - He was very, he wanted us to get into a car. He wanted us to get into an Uber and leave immediately. He was starting to call a car and then he took my phone and then I was trying to get my phone back and he ended up walking down the same as Santa with my phone and I was in like boots with a peel and so I was like, if I freaking, you saying bolt, being like, I need my phone back, like, why did he take your phone? - Because he thought, 'cause I was like, oh, I'm gonna tweet about this, I mean, obviously I'm not. But you know what I mean, like, you say things like that in those moments, you're not like. - Of course, I'm not calm about it. You know, I was freaking the fuck out and he was very concerned about people hearing us because obviously we know a lot of people in West Hollywood, we know a lot of people at all the different bars and we were in the back of all these bars and he was very concerned about people finding out. And I was like, I don't care, why would I care? Who am I protecting by doing that? So do you both get into a car together? And where do you go, home? - Home. - What happens in the car and when you get home? - So in the car we were, so I called Rachel during all of this after I got my phone back on San Vicente. I called her and that's when I was like, if you ever gave a shit about any woman ever, about me as your friend, about literally anything, you need to tell me like when this started, whatever, like tell me, I was hysterical. And she said, that's when she said the part about like after the girls trip and I was like, you mean when my dog died? Like when Charlotte passed away is what the girls trip was. Like the fact that that is not even on your radar at all in describing this. And that's when Sheena came up and that's when Sheena took her phone and then said, I'm gonna call you from my phone. I'm throwing her phone in the gutter. Sheena called me from her phone. I get in the car. Sheena's on the phone with me and then he gets in the car and now he's on the phone with her. So all four of us are on the phone together and it's literally like why are you carrying? Like why are you on the phone with her? Like who gives a shit about her right now? And then that's when he was just very dismissive, very defiant, dismissive of Sheena's friendship to me and to him in that moment. Like it was very much like just, and the poor Uber driver, oh, we should get him in here. I know. I remember at one point we stopped and got a pack of cigarettes 'cause I was like, I wanna just, I wanna drink and run chains, but you know what I mean? Of course. I'm like one of those nights, like please. And he went into the gas station and I was just in the car with the Uber driver at that point and I was just like, are you hearing this? And the Uber driver was like, yeah man, this is good. (laughing) Uber driver was like, whoa, but like give me five star, girl. That's excellent. Yeah, like it was just. So you get home and this is the part, I think I've seen the world be so fascinated because you guys live together. You own a home together. So you both go home that night and is it just like a screaming war till like you fall asleep? Essentially, yeah. Do you sleep in the same room? No, no, not at that point, no. So you sleep in a different room and like when you're by yourself, like what were you thinking? Oh, I mean, well I made sure to text close friends of mine and of his because I was like, I'm not going to be in a position where, and luckily because of the sheena of it all, like at least I was like, no, we're not keeping this a secret. Other people know. Yeah, so I was making like texts were slowly trickling like, what is happening? Are you kidding me? I mean, I didn't sleep. I mean, I didn't lay down to sleep until maybe like 6 a.m. That was how long we were like going at it, I guess. And he was just mad at me pretty much the entire time. That's also, when I've been cheated on, it's like when someone that has been keeping a secret for so long gets called out, all they've been doing is lying. And so I feel like their natural response is lean in harder to like trying to gaslight you, trying to distort your reality, like trying to make you feel crazy somehow and like not take accountability and somehow you're like, how are we fighting? How are you yelling at me? Like you fucked my best friend. Yeah, and I'm like screaming crying growing up in this moment and you're just like annoyed at the whole thing. So that night ends and what we do know is like when this happened, you guys were not filming anymore. So how long after this happened, did the cameras finally get in there? So this was Wednesday night. And so it was Friday morning that cameras were at my house. Because what I could notice, because we've all been through a breakup like that, is like the conversation in the finale that we watched felt more like a breakup. Then like post morning like literally go fuck yourself, like fuck you. 'Cause there had been that little bit of that space. The final conversation between you guys, it was infuriating I think for the nation to watch because he's blaming you being like, I lost my mojo, we never had sex. Like I wasn't myself, I wasn't happy. And he was quite literally taking no accountability, whatsoever for his actions. What was it like sitting there listening to someone as your hurt, tried to deflect all responsibility for what they had done? - It was awful, it was brutal. But it was also what he had been doing for that past 48 hours up until that moment. So I almost kind of like knew that that's where he was headed. But then listening to it in the moment, not knowing what other people around me are thinking when they hear it, I'm like, is this am I, you start to really question your own sense of reality. And this whole thing had me like I did not at that point, like that 48 hours, especially that night, that Wednesday night and that Thursday day, like and going to that conversation without having any other like witnesses or, and also being in this position where it's like my partner of nine years and one of my best friends, like my sense of reality was gone. Like I just did not know like what was up and what was down at that point. - Yeah, you were very vocal this season about defending Tom and Raquel when people would come to you and you like had their backs. If someone would have come forward, and I know this is a hypothetical, but if someone would have come forward and told you about the fair, do you think you would have believed them or do you think you had to like see it yourself to believe it? - I think I would have believed it if it was told to me off camera. Or if it was told to me, you know what I'm saying? Because I think to some degree, a lot of what I felt was rumors and rumblings was, which has happened before. People being like, okay, I heard a little something about something, but I'm gonna bring it up because that's our job is, you know, we bring up everything that we hear about. And a lot of times it's nothing. And I was like, well, if it's nothing, I'm not gonna have like my friend and my boyfriend be like dragged through the mud. - I get what you're saying. It's almost like being on reality TV for so many years, you become almost more accustomed to, this is obviously for content, this is for the show, this is for the show, this is drama, this was like, you're not actually gonna believe that kind of shit. So if it was genuine, it would have come off camera. - Right, or would have come, yeah, it would have been a friend who's like, I'm gonna end up bringing this up on camera. - But I need to tell you first. - But I need to tell you first because I think it's actually really real. And I think that that's something that like my close friends would have done. - Okay, so I got it. - Okay, I do wanna take a step back because as much as we're talking about like in the weeds up like this affair, you were in a relationship for nine years with this man. And you guys were friends before you got into a relationship. What was it that first initially attracted you to Tom? - I just thought he was so earnest in everything that he did. And I found it really like endearing that he would be over the top in making a cocktail or over the top in just everyday parts of life like I thought it very endearing and sweet almost. And I also thought he was a really good friend to the people close to him. And I thought that that was a really good quality. - Yeah. - How would you have described your relationship with Tom to someone? - I would have described it as like, we used to call each other like apocalypse buddies. You know, like the person that all shit goes to hell and this is the person that you can rely on that you want with you. He was gonna continue to like make you laugh and get through all of what life has to throw at you. And like honestly, even right up until me finding out about this affair. like even during while the fair was going on. We were still like laughing together, you know, having like our little, we had so many like little inside jokes and things like that. And I mean, if you were to go through like either of our camera rolls, you would see just like so many, even during the fair, amazing fun memories together. - What was your sex life like in the beginning and then like as your relationship progressed? - I mean, in the beginning, I was definitely struggling with, I was very excited that someone was like really, I thought really into me, because the relationship I was in previously, that sex life was fine, but at the same time I was being like criticized very heavily about my body and my personality, just everything. And so I was like, oh my gosh, this is someone who's like really into me. And so that was very exciting. And I think that our sex life waxed and waned at different points. I definitely think that, you know, got to a point sometimes where, you know, I just wanted that quality time so bad. And I just think that in my mind I thought, well, if we get through opening this bar, if we get through all this stuff, like then we'll be able to have all this time together. And I felt like he just was adding more and more things to his plate. And I just didn't, I don't know, I felt like, I'm like, oh, he's just not into me. - Yeah, it's like you lose the connection almost. And I think that's something, 'cause there's so many things you just said. First is from your past relationship going with someone that was very vocal about things they didn't like about you or your body or your personality. Like that takes a toll on yourself confidence. So then to meet this guy that's larger than life and funny and jokes and it's so into you, it's like I totally understand that, Lur. And like you feel like alive and like happy and good with yourself. In the season, I think probably one of the hardest scenes for women specifically to watch was that scene with you and Raquel. Where you open up to Raquel as your friend at the time again to people watching Ariana did not know about the affair yet. And you voice that you feel insecure about your body and you say, you know, why would he want to have sex with me? And for, and watching her speak to you, knowing she was fucking your partner is so painful to watch. But I, when I watched that, I felt so bad for you because I'm like, did Tom not make you feel confident and make you feel good? - It felt like, you know, he would complain about frequency of sex and it felt like he wanted to have sex, but I was like, but do you want to have sex with me? Is it about me or is it just about the act? And that's where I was like, okay, so but what is it about? He wasn't really great with like the words of, you know, like descriptors, I was like, be specific. Like what do you like, you know, like like what do you like about me? - Yeah, like I need to know those, like I want to know those things or I would be like, okay, well, do you like, you know, people have said that they think I have a nice ass. I don't know if I agree with that, but do you agree with that? Do you, and he would like be very turned off by the idea of me like being like, can you, do you like like that part of me or like what are the, you know, right? And I think that it wasn't coming necessarily from a place of like he didn't like my body. I just don't think he knew how to express or maybe that's just a disconnect there and like, yeah, love languages or how to like click in that way because, I get what you're saying, but I also do any fucking guy listening to this. It's like when your partner is so clearly being like, I need some reassurance. I don't know the last time you've given me a compliment. That's also like a, hey, wake up. Like, you want sex? Well, why would I have sex with someone that I don't know the last time I felt like pretty in front of my works? - Can you objectify me maybe? Like call me fucking hot. - Right. Or like you would say things like, oh, nice outfit. When I was naked or changing, he'd be like, nice outfit. And I'm like, I get the joke, but like, that's not connect. That's not gonna like, no, really get me there. Something that really pisses me off is when men try to justify their cheating by being like, but we weren't having sex. Like, I need to get my fix somewhere. And like, it's so often that women are deemed as the problem. And of course, a guy went and cheated. Like, you weren't having sex, but it's like, but why weren't you having sex? And so, was there ever a point where Tom or like, the situation as you kept hearing it? Like, we weren't connecting. We weren't physical. Was there ever a point where you were questioning, was that your fault? - I mean, I think in the past, I would have been inclined to do that. But because I was, had been in therapy and for years at that point, I knew. And couple therapy with him, by the way. - Well, that's not. - And the couple's therapists literally sat across from both of us and said, this is a him problem. This isn't a you problem. You know, there's certain things I have to take accountability for in the relationship, but when it came to stuff like that, it's like, no, this is something that he's going through that he's dealing with and don't take that on yourself. Like, just please don't. 'Cause it is my inclination to be like, I'm not enough, you know, we all have that lie. Whatever the big lie is that we all tell ourselves, mine is the not enough lie. And the therapist was like, please don't do that. - Right, this actually has nothing to do with you. - Yeah. I know hindsight is obviously 2020. And it's like, you can look back and try to put like, were there any signs of red flags in the beginning of the relationship that you now see? - I think in the beginning, it was like, you know, he likes to go out a lot. And I thought that that was just like the phase of life that we were in. And I would have thought that nine years later, we would be in a different phase. I think I'm in a different phase in my life. I still like to go out and have fun. I go to festivals, I party, I have a good time. But like as far as like going out during the week, just for the hell of it. It's not anyone's birthday. You know, it's not like a dinner and drinks. It's just like a, that's just not why I'm at anymore. And I thought that we were in that phase together. And then we would come out of it. But I feel like you never grow up. - He didn't really, yeah. - When you look back, I know a huge conversation on the internet is your relationship with Tom started by him cheating on his girlfriend, Kristen, you guys kissed. He lied to you and was like, I'm not with her anymore, but then it turns out Kristen was like, we were fully together. So and people are like, oh, you lose them how you got them. Like he cheated on Kristen, he cheated on you. Like how do you feel looking back at how your relationship started and how people are now like, are you that surprised? Like he did it to Kristen, he did it to you. - What's to be very clear, I didn't lose him. He lost me. So that's right there, sorry. But I think that I trusted in him so much, even like as a friend back then, and I trusted him so much like during our relationship, that I trusted his perspective on things. And I think that I was caught up in whatever he told me, that whatever it was that he was telling me was what I was going with. That's not to say like I'm a smart girl. Like, you know, I could have dug deeper, but I didn't. Kristen and I are very close and I love her so much. And their relationship as she will tell you, it was very toxic and there was a lot of cheating on both sides there, whatever. I love her, she's amazing. She's a very strong, incredible woman and she has become like just such a force. I think that it's something that just goes to show that that's kind of maybe just what he does, is he says things like I tried to end it or I meant, you know, things like that or oh, we're broken up or things like whatever it is. I would like to think that maybe this thing that's happening right now will prevent him from ever doing that again with any other person, just because I think it's time to put that right. Tactic to bed, but yeah, when you look back, I'm just thinking like, do you think he's a pathological liar? - I mean, it's hard to say, I mean, clearly in the last seven months he was a pathological liar, yeah. It's now hard for me to look back at nine years. And if I tell myself he's a pathological liar, then I means that the last nine years of my life were potentially alive, but he did say stuff on that finale episode to Shina, like we weren't happy and we bought the house as a band-aid, I'm like a band-aid to who? 'Cause that wasn't where I was at at all. Or things like, there were a lot of things from his perspective that have been said in that episode. And otherwise that it's like, oh, okay, well, that's maybe how you were thinking, but that's nowhere near where I was. - Right, and also we're in a relationship so you should have shared that to me, because I would have loved to know that 'cause I probably wouldn't have bought a house with you. If you were like, just to be clear babe, this is a band-aid. You'd been like, the fuck? - Right, I mean like, okay, well, maybe we should fix our relationship then now and do that and not do, yeah. - Couples therapy. You and Tom got into couples therapy this past year. - And after he started the affair. - After, and he was full blown at that point. I didn't know that. But so when you got into couple therapy, you had no idea about the affair. You go in and he claims he initiated it. Is that true? Initiated couple therapy. Yes, but it had been brought up by one or both of us. Okay. Years of being together. Yup. And it's since been revealed that he got you both into couples therapy as part of his eventual plan to end the relationship. What explanation did he give you as to like why he was so gung ho ready, finally, for couples therapy? I mean, he was just, we got into an argument one day. Well, you saw on the show, we had that conversation on the couch. And it was that conversation and then like one other one that we have where it was like, I think we should go to couples therapy. And I was like, absolutely, I would love that. We should do that. But it was those things in those conversations that led us to that, yep, to going. And I remember specifically one session, because we would do joint and we would do separate and in my separate sessions, I was doing inner child work. I was sobbing with her. I was, I mean, I felt like I was making leaps and bounds. And he even said, oh, we went to couples therapy and our relationship got so much better. Right. But like, it's like, well, duh, right. Right. Like it's almost like a little counterintuitive that if he actually had the intention of ending it with you, why the fuck are you going to couples therapy? I remember even saying after one of them, I was like, okay. So there was a session where it was, it got really intense. It felt like maybe we were ending. And at the end of the session, she was like, okay. So is this, you know, a breakup or you guys, and he was like, no. So that's where it's like, I don't, I don't know. So do you mind sharing like when, when you guys are fighting like, because obviously you're not fighting about the affair, what were your issues in the relationship? My issue says that I felt like he was not choosing me over like random nights out, or that he just wasn't coming home. Like he would want to just be at Schwartz's for no reason. I fucking know. Just, you know, having beers and whatever were coming home. And then, you know, I'd wake up and I'd be like, where are you? And I would like go down, he's just downstairs like, having face. Smoking cigarettes and probably, but like, you know what I mean? It was just like the absentee boyfriend without, and the, I have to do this for work. I have to, you know, it was just everything was coming before me and before the relationship. And I felt like, and I needed that connection and that stuff, that all that stuff in order to be physically intimate. And I knew that physical intimacy was something that he was saying. He was lacking. So I'm like, I don't know how I can meet you where you need to be when I'm not being mad where I need to be like, how do we figure this out? Right. It's almost like you both couldn't, it was a circle. It's like, no, but come home earlier. He's like, no, but like, I'm miserable because we don't have sex and you're like, but we need to hang out in order to have sex. And it's just like, like what I said on the show is like, I can't teleport your dick into my vagina from the bar because if you're at the bar and I'm at home, like, I'm here. You know, maybe I'm ready and you're just not there. So how do we do this, right? Like we can't actually physically do this if you're never part of it. But like exactly, exactly, so yeah. So Tom did mention on that how we bandell podcasts, like things did shift. You started to make an effort, like what did you making an effort in his mind? Do you think look like? I think I just was doing my best to be present and going out with him more. And trying to be more fun party time gal. You know, I was just trying to be, I don't know, like fun and hot. I don't know. Right. Dude. And like how the fuck did you feel when you were doing that? I mean, part of me was just like, I mean, this is fine because again, I was still doing like that inner child work and it was, you know, I felt like that was really helping you just be like, I love myself and I'm, you know, doing, I mean, that like really changed the game for me. Yeah. When you say doing inner child work, like obviously share what you're comfortable with. But like what was something that you were like really struggling with that was clearly like, you felt bleeding into your relationship that you were like, I'm going to work on this shit because like I want to be whole and good with myself. I think like this sense of perfectionism because I mean, I love my dad, but my dad also like didn't come home after work and stuff. And I was always like straight A student super overachiever. And I think like going back and looking at it, a lot of times I did those things. I mean, maybe because I wanted people to be like, I'll be there. So I thought like if I could be the perfect girlfriend or the perfect girl that they'll come home, they'll want to be around me and I'll be enough. I won't have to be me tap dancing, doing shrooms and hang gliding. I can just be me and that will be enough. Is it so fuck to when you get into therapy also you're like, oh my god, like is it this obvious of like, I'm dating a version of my dad or like I'm dating a, you're like, how did this happen? Yeah. Like my dad didn't come home. Tom's never fucking home. Like my, yeah. I mean, I hate to speak ill of my, I love my dad, he's a great person in so many ways. But he would, you know, sometimes just be like, okay, where there's a random dive bar down the street. I'd go do that instead of coming home and helping with homework. But it also makes sense, Ariana, because weirdly we are attracted to things that are familiar to us. So it's like, if that is what you were growing up with, weirdly, you're like, oh, I fucking got this with Tom. Like I know how to deal with this. I know how to do it. I can do it. The right. Like, oh, I can do it right this time. I can kind of do it all over again. And be better. And actually, he'll come home, watch like all the, and then it's like, actually you deserve so much. That's actually not on me. It's on. No. No, you want someone that actually wants to come home and you don't have to beg them to be like, come on. Like show up. Be there. Right. You said that you hadn't considered ending the relationship before all of this came out. Were you truly happy in this relationship? I don't know. I think I was a version of happy that I thought was, I don't know what I wanted. And I also felt like the bones of the relationship were good. And I felt as though the potential for the relationship to be just incredible was there. And I think it was the potential and the, okay, if we can make it through this time. The Fred again song, we lost dancing. I literally the night that Tom, that Schwartz and Sandeys had the, like, their last, like, opening thing, I was driving Tom home and I was like, just listen to the words of this song. And in the song when, I think it's a blessing to Donna says, if I can make it through this next six months, what comes next will be marvelous. And I literally was like, if you can get through this, if we can get through this opening of this bar and whatever, what comes next for us will be marvelous. And I just cannot believe that he'd already been having, at that point, he was already, I don't know. But it's, it must be such a mind fuck where you're like, which I also want, because I know I've done it too, where like, I remember when I was getting cheated on and I didn't know it at the time and you're making such an effort and you're like, I feel so fucking stupid. Like, how dare, and it's like, no, no, no, you're not stupid. You were trusting the person you were in love with. And so it's like, you also have to wrap your head around like this wasn't your fault. But it's like also crazy now that you remember these details of you putting in so much fucking work and be like, we got this, Tom. My only question though was like, nine years. Now when you look back, because you're like, oh my gosh, like I was like, you know, I was obsessed with like the potential, like, I really wanted the 10, nine years in. If you're still fantasizing about the potential of what a relationship could be, do you now have any ability to look and be like, hmm, if I didn't, you know what I mean? Like, or did you feel it in the first couple of years and then it dropped off? Like, was it always like this? I feel like things would kind of, they would, they would wax and wane. It would be ups and ebbs and flows and I feel like we would have so many amazing times. So then if there was like a couple weeks that were like, not great or if I was like, hmm, unsure about something, there was so much other stuff that was great. Or I would be like, laugh, we would be laughing hysterically about something or that it was almost like, I think hard to say, oh, this person's not right for me because I also had never been in a relationship that long before. So it's hard to know like, what is it supposed to be like? You know, because past, I think my, my, my longest adult relationship previous to that was I think like three years or so. So it's like past that point, this is uncharted territory and I'm thinking, this is what it is. You know, when you're with someone for nine years, when you're with someone for maybe potentially 10, 20, right, like a fucking decade, you know, things are going to be hard sometimes. I get that. I actually think that's like really relatable of like, you try to see the good because there is good. But when it's ebbing and flowing, you have to be like, we just have to say strong through the hard times. Like we just have to make it through this. But because people say that who have been together for 50 years, who have never cheated and you have like they're like the greatest love story of all time and you think like okay yeah they said that we had some hard times like sometimes you have a year that's hard right and I you know especially this past year I went through a lot and I felt like okay and he was going I felt like we were both on our own going through these things and so I thought like we'll get through this together because I mean I'm committed to this man and but you know he didn't you know he'd have full other relationship going on right this season we found out a lot about your relationship there you had talked about like how at times you would go through his phone and he was open with you and he would hand it to you or then we found out on watch what happens live you're like I had the iPad password you can idiot like they're always so stupid and Tom mentioned you guys were only having sex four times a year and you were living pretty separate lives were you lonely yeah but no because I had my best friend so he would be so jealous of me hanging out with my best friend Logan right and he would be like I feel like a third wheel when I go out with you guys and I'm like well because you you go outside and you are on the phone or you're do you know you yeah and so it's like I don't want that for you but so I filled that I filled that absence of him not coming home and not wanting to do the same things that we wanted to do I filled that absence with the most incredible people I know which are my friends which is like such like also a beautiful thing that you had great friends but also kind of like clearly a deflector of like instead of being like we why are we never hanging out I'm just gonna hang out with my friends which is great we love your friends because he was going and doing that you know and it was just like or but honestly though the separate lives comment yeah to me is just so not true I mean to some degree maybe yeah but when you're saying like I have to work I'm trying to open this bar and oh I have to go to dinner with shorts and breath because we have to talk about the bar and then oh I thought you were gonna be home right after dinner it's 12 like what are you doing oh we just want to get drinks next door at birds you know like things like that and it's like okay well but then if I again my camera roll and his camera roll because I have it right um if you look at it it's we're still we're going to concerts we're going on dinner dates where we are there is some there is effort being made somewhere of like you know right it just felt like it just wasn't enough yeah no I got it you obviously mentioned you went through a rough year you lost your grandmother you lost your dog I'm so sorry how were you mentally grieving during that time and like what was your relationship with Tom when you were grieving because I know you've been open about like when you lost your dad Tom was there he was like your rock he was in it with you he was like the person for you and this time around was very different were you concerned at all or were you just like full grieving you didn't even like give a fucking pay attention yeah I was full grieving because my concern well with Charlotte my dog um he was there with me he held her as we said goodbye um we literally said goodbye to her together and then we went home and I put on my comfort movie which is love actually and we drink wine and we laid on the couch together and just like mourned together and I so I thought we were like fully on the same page there I also know that like when it comes to it was the summer we do have to you know we have to film we have to go do stuff we can't just we can't stay at home forever and so a lot of times it'd be like okay well I have to I'm gonna go film this I you know boys night or this or that and I was like go do it because this is what we do yeah it's a career I maybe I'm not ready for that yet but you go do it exactly um and so I definitely had no idea that you know he would betray me during that time because I thought he was also grieving when it came to my grandma I was so concerned with my mom so I flew home to my mom and then I flew back filmed the rest of the season which was like one week left and then I flew back again to Florida and was there for like two weeks it was during the hurricane in and everything and I just I just extended my stay um beyond the service and everything and I just my concern was really just my family when you were grieving your grandmother isn't that when Tom and Raquel apparently were like at your house or something having sex potentially potentially potentially I mean he has maintained that that's not my case but I don't trust what he says of course they FaceTimed me the three of them they FaceTimed me that next morning like before any filming or whatever so I was already aware that she had stayed the night because she it was like hey good morning yeah stay the night like it was just no big deal is that one of the most painful things for you aside from the actual fact that they were having an affair like the casualness of just like hey girl we're gonna FaceTimed you together and they're your best friend so you're like hey guys and they like literally just fucked it's the duplicitousness it's like the it's the backstabbingness it's like less about like an a fit you know what I'm saying right it's so layered it's just really bizarre as well like it's just like I can't wrap my head around doing that it's yeah I'm really twisted and sick it is actually Tom claimed he tried to break up with you multiple times and your response would be I'm not gonna let you leave you're gonna have to force me that it there was only one okay so was tried okay he's talking about those conversations that we filmed so the one on the blue in the brown and white and then the I don't know if that looked like try an attempt to break up that you didn't look like it to me and then there was another scene that didn't make it to air that was pretty much along the same lines and that was where we like decided we were actually gonna go to couples therapy or whatever that doesn't that's not in it and then that was in September so then we had literally all the way up until just Valentine's Day like January no Valentine's Day is in February so I'm like what a day Valentine's Day where are we Valentine's Day he got me flowers we went to shorts and sandies he pulled out a bottle of wine from our first trip we ever took together so obviously also after we had celebrated our nine-year anniversary at Musone Franks on January 1st like full you know like we we went out we had our anniversary dinner happy anniversary like great night right like like we we were having sex in January like multiple times so like so to also to confirm to everyone that's not following all this drama it's like Tom really honed in being like I was really trying to break up with her like you're sleeping in my bed and by me flowers and we're going on a anniversary dinner and like yeah going to couples therapy and all of that so the the Valentine's Day right that he has reference yeah um again got me flowers we went to shorts and sandies for dinner um brought of super special bottle of wine that was special to us um I got dressed up I put like little hearts on my face so because he was like he looks so cute um we went out for drinks later Rachel showed up as did a few of our other friends and then we went home and we were started kissing and he was like I had to stop you and then that's when he we had this breakup conversation then at the end of that conversation when that was hours long and the end of that conversation was all right well let's continue this conversation you know and he was saying things in that conversation like I think I I'm having a mid-life crisis like and I'm like absolutely and I said if we break up I'm probably going to quit the show I will probably leave Los Angeles I will probably deactivate my Instagram and he found that to be like very offensive he was saying like I don't know like I was never saying that I was going to kill myself I was saying that my life this life will be over for me because I will go do something else I've been fantasizing about moving to like the French countryside since I was fucking child and like honestly to be fair like in the conversation is quite tearful it was definitely not like a positive conversation right but I'm not talking about physically harming myself and given the fact that we had that conversation over many many many hours he knows that that's not what I was saying it's not just like one comment and then we stop talking so the fact that I feel like so many things that I've said not just in confidence it's just me and him like we could sit here and we're words all we want it's my word against his word right okay that's fair but at the same time it's like knowing me and knowing the conversation and knowing the conversations we had in the days after that were you were still certainly being my bed and we were still going to we went to a concert on February 19th and there's videos that he has of me like Thank you. in the living room and you know so it's like okay so why are you sleeping in the bed why are we continuing to hang out why do we have any sort of relationship if to you now you're gonna go on a podcast and say are you on a new we were broken up it's just like in my opinion I was like you know what I feel great about us having this open I was really a rough conversation it ended with let's keep talking about this um the next couple of days we had more conversations um I said you are going to have to if you think this is over you will have to be the one to end it because I'm committed I'm actually thinking that this is like the potential for us to like be even to be great because we're talking about stuff now that we haven't talked about yet like we've never really gotten this this far down this road before so yes if you want it to be if this is over to you like you are gonna have to like you're gonna have to do this you're gonna have to leave like that's not crazy it's like a like not all I don't we don't have to mutually agree upon the breakup you know what I'm saying like not only is it not crazy Ariana that was gonna be my next question of like I think the whole world watching it when Tom looked at Shina and was like I can't break up with her because she's threatened to kill herself first of all my problem with that even if you had said that which I appreciate clarifying but again you didn't need to because it's like number one that's a huge fucking allegation to make about someone's mental health and to just casually say on a show when that's not the truth or it was the truth shut the fuck up and I have dealt with suicidal ideation before and I have been in very very deep dark places before so to then be flippant about it as if that's also something about me that makes me like deserve to be treated poorly is is pretty awful I think I couldn't agree more I also am like when you saw that clip how how did you feel I mean it made me angry obviously and then what Shina said was like such a great thing like even if that was exactly word for word what I said which no but if it was why did you do absolutely nothing to help at all like why didn't you call my mom my brother my friends right instead you just my best friend right Tom knows you have shared that you have struggled with your mental health I have yeah you have he has clearly been next to you while you're going through things and purported to be my supporter in my partner in that why if you were going to break up why do you think you would leave everything in move like do you still well now you did break up you're not going to do that right are we going to the French countryside like where are we going where are we going I'm down but like when you said that to him you really were like I'm out because I didn't want to do I didn't want to do all of this on my own or without him and I didn't want to like just kind of like be like all right I guess I'll move into an apartment in studio city and you know I just was like that's not what I want and I was like if this is going to change my life dramatically not being that relationship then I want to change it dramatically I get what you're saying it's like I also appreciate I think a lot of people can relate to this randomly sometimes when you have the worst fights of your life with your partner it does feel like you can see the light at the end of the tunnel because you're like we have never been this candid we have not spoken in this way so almost it allows for a dialogue where you're like weirdly we went backwards to kind of go forward that is literally where I was at I was literally where I was at because I'm also thinking to myself a nine year relationship is not a relationship that ends on a with a drunken valentine's day but by the way we were wasted when we got home that night so I'm like that's you don't just have one wasted conversation and end a nine year relationship right so right but to him I he was clearly and obviously in that conversation there was nothing brought up about him having a fair anyone right so it's almost like the whole thing the whole thing was nonsense and I remember asking him I was like why did you get me flowers if you were like I'm going to break up with her and he was like why really I wanted to get you flowers you just I was like oh my god he really it really feels like he really wanted to have both I think so I think he was very committed to the double life I agree because do you actually believe he was gonna end it before the reunion yeah I don't know honestly it's like hard to know I do think that I've seen I've seen some things I've learned some things even after filming the reasons come on give us the tea um one of those things is um a text message from Rachel to Tom saying I just talked to a mutual friend I won't name them and they said that you should be honest with Ariana maybe not so much about all the details like sleeping in the house together but that she deserves to know about this and then it's like I love you you got this oh so kind just so so generous so I think it was only in that last little bit there right before I found out that it was even that I that it was being workshopped right that's when like when I saw that they they were like we were gonna do it before the reunion because we could never sit in front of her and let her defend I'm like bro that's what you've been doing you've been sitting in front of her and letting her defend you and Raquel and everyone it's like why would the reunion be any fucking different right okay throughout this season there were numerous comments from castmates about the dynamic of your guys relationship again before the the affair came out in January you had to set the record straight that you and Tom were not in an open relationship why do you now with all the information why do you think that rumor started honestly I think it came from him I think that which it's been denied I'll say that but I think that so it came out that day that all everyone was at my house that you see on the show that I mean obviously these conversations that are two minutes on the show are like two hours plus and sometimes there are things that are said that are way worse than what is on like Bravo give it to us what the fuck like his and I my our conversation there were things that were way worse and then in that conversation with all my friends I think it was Shina was like um so one of our friends back when this stuff started coming out and rumors were rumbling it was apparently Rachel told a mutual friend that she thought me and Tom were in an open relationship because apparently he told her that at one point and then when that got brought up he was like absolutely not I never said that and I was like well you should probably take that up with your little fucking girlfriend because she's the one who told that to someone else and I and you know what she said to that someone else she said even if that she's like I mean I don't know if that's true but I would way rather hook up with Ariana than Tom and I think she said that because she was talking to a guy and she thought it was like hot hot to be like to say that and so when Tom was like I never said that but I'm like well don't ask me I'm not the one that's written information that's being brought to me that she apparently said it's weirdly I do think in a strange way that is helpful to know because that narrative now knowing what we know it's like that didn't get put out into the world by like no happened like it's not like everyone's like Shina and Brock are in a no and it's like you know what I mean it's like now knowing there's like a kernel of something that was planted somewhere that turned into something right like someone fucking knew it was an open relationship but it was one fucking so there's one person yeah because the other person's like right absolutely not like I would have loved to have known I've been like let me know so I can like you would have loved to know like many times earlier so you're like oh let me get on the same page you're fucking recalled got it I'm out right he was operating telling people that probably so that it wouldn't get back to you because people go oh Bill then they must have some sort of trust some rule and so I'm not gonna bring it up to her I mean that sounds fairly likely to me absolutely Katie at one point said something along the lines of Ariana doesn't care she just cares when people talk about it and she doesn't want to look dumb comments like that insinuating you and Tom had a different relationship and understanding off camera than on camera and those comments were pretty heavy throughout the season of like they've got this thing on the side that no one talks about I remember Lala went on a podcast and was like they are the most different off camera like how does that sit with you I mean to be honest and I do love Katie and I do love Lala but those were people who were not really in our inner like whatsoever for the last many years. - Okay. - And I don't think anyone within our inner circle would ever say anything like that. If you were to interview Logan or Brad or even Sheena, they would not say that. And those are people that we spent like a lot of time together with when on trips with, things like that. So, I mean, I get to them, maybe they think that that's fine, but they were not in our inner circle. Prior to the scandal, there had been other rumors of Tom cheating with other women. And it was disclosed in the fine finale that you did know about one of them in Miami. You guys weren't official, you talked about that. Now, knowing who Tom really is, how many people do you think? - I don't know. There was one years and years ago that I got a DM that was like, Tom hooked up with my friend in San Diego. And I was like, and I brought it up over, and over, and over, and over again, 'cause I was like, I'm drilling, I'm drilling. And it was like, no, absolutely not, no, no, no. Like, you know what I mean? It was like really just a no. That now, I'm like, no, I think that was a yes. And then there's specifically the one that he said, oh yeah, there was one other time. I'm like 99.9% sure, I know exactly who that is also. - Yeah. - But that being said, how many, I don't know, because it's like, I don't know, because I feel like he was so, I mean, there was stuff that he was getting away with that I learned about within the last month. - Like what? - Like bringing Rachel home to St. Louis. - When did he do that? - Apparently more than once. - While you were dating. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So his family knew? - It's hard to say like what exactly they knew or when they knew, I think they at one point they knew, but they were like definitely not condoning. And he wasn't, he was like putting her up in like a hotel. Like how diabolical to bring your side chick to your home. Like, and were they not afraid to pop around? Like what? - I guess, I mean, it's St. Louis. I don't know. I don't know if they have those there. But you know what that being said? There were some rumblings even before I knew whether or not that was true. There were rumblings of that on the internet. So definitely somebody had seen something at the point. - Okay. - What do you think about the Billy Lee situation? - I do not think that anything happened there. - You don't. - I don't. And the reason I don't is because, I mean, Billy Lee, okay, I understand that this sounds crazy, because for someone I loved and trust, you know what I'm saying? - Right, you're like, but I do really, I trust that Billy Lee would not do that. - Have you asked? She has, we've talked about it. - Okay, okay. - Yeah, based on people saying things online, she's been, yeah. - Right, yeah. - Has anyone reached out to you since to be like, I also hooked up with him? - They have not. - Okay, I haven't had anyone do that. Okay, that's good for your mental health. - Or are they scared? - Are they scared? You'll be like, on-call her daddy, like, yep. Brittany from fucking Australia said that like, no, dude. - Honestly, I would not, if any women did do that. - Yeah, you're not. - I would not put that on blast, because honestly, at the end of the day, as much as I think that they suck for doing that, 'cause they knew we're together, it's a responsibility, in my opinion, of the person in a relationship. - I also think, weirdly, now knowing the drama of like, the open relationship rumor he may have been putting out, I've always said, like, men, when they want to put their penis in something, they will say, like, a married man will be like, no, we're in the middle of the divorce. Later, he goes home to his wife. Like, they will say-- - They will say-- - She sadly, she passed away. Like, are you mad? - Literally, like, she's not here. Like, we don't even know how, it's already so diabolical, how crazy it's gotten that it wouldn't be surprising, if every room he walked into in order to get a girl, like, it was like, we're on a break, or we're like, it just-- - It's, it's, it's, it's, I fucking hate, man. Okay, um, does being completely honest with yourself? Do you think you ever subconsciously turned to blind eye? - Yes. Yeah. But I think I was given a lot of assistance in doing that because I would bring things up and I would be shot down. And, or I, again, with the, oh, let me see your phone. I think that I was given a lot of assistance in that, you know what I mean? Like, and he even sat on the show, like, well, she didn't follow me. It's like, how much effort should I be putting forward in a relationship? Should I be stalking my partner in order to know for sure, like, what they're doing? Like, I get what you're saying, and I think also to women listening. Like, we talked about you going through his phone and there are no texts. So it's like, at what point you have to just trust your partner 'cause then you start to actually feel crazy of like, and I being just like so untrusting, like-- - Right, and you're like, am I just like a fucking bitch? Because now I'm being, you know, that person, that's just so like, so what? And my mom, they're mom now that's gonna be like, every time they come home, they might gonna be like, all right, let me see your phone. You know, like that whole thing and it's like-- - And then you start to feel like the psycho and they become the more normal one that's like, you're so crazy, like-- - Well, and then they get to use that against you later on. So it's like, you're either not psycho enough to like, not figure it out. Or you're so, you're two psycho and they're like-- - They know how to hide that shit. - Now I'm gonna break, exactly. - They're like, you're so crazy, here's my phone, look. And it's like, well, then open the iPad if you didn't delete those messages. Were his messages connected to his iPad? - No, you're so fast. - And you know why? Because at one point they were, and it was just like, we just get so many, and it would just be dinging, dinging, dinging. So it was like, we gotta turn that off. This was years and years ago. It was just like, the mount that I know. But the find my iPhone app, I, you know, could see where the devices all were located. And they were always located somewhere that they should be. The band rehearsal space. Or shorts is apartment. - How much of the affair do you think happened at Schwartz's house? - I think more than Schwartz is willing to let on. Because the recording was at Schwartz's. And he apparently felt real comfortable there. - Ah, yeah. - And that sad, sad apartment. - And that sad, sad location. - Yeah. - That's fucking gross. - Yeah. - Do you think, you kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but do you think you were so quick to defend Tom? Not just about this, like through seasons, you've always had his back. You've always been right or die. And I think so many people, including myself, respected you for always being like, I'm gonna stand by my fucking partner. But do you think that you would be so quick to defend him so that people wouldn't think less of him or so that people wouldn't think less of you for being with him? - Both. - Yeah. - Definitely both. Because I didn't want people, I always saw a side of him that I felt wasn't a parent on the show or on social media or whatever. I always felt like I saw a side of him that was like the home side. And so I always felt like if people could just see that part of him, they would get it, you know? And then in turn, yeah, I mean for people to think less of me, I don't want them to be like, oh, this girl sucks at picking guys a date. - Although, I mean. - No, we're leveling up Ariana. Okay, like it's getting better. I've seen it, it's gotten a lot better. When you look back on your time together, are you able to see any good or has what he's down and completely tainted him and as the human he is? - I don't think I'm there yet. Although some of these edits on TikTok that come on my 4U page that have like ceilings, that ceiling song is playing and it's like cute clips of a, I'm like, look, I can't because I feel like, I mean in that regard, I'm like, oh, that's maybe almost getting me there, but I feel like, I mean he even said, oh, because I've done this, then that negates everything else. And I was kind of like, I mean, it kind of does. I mean, it does. I hate to say it, but when you have an affair, you cheat like that. I do think it does make it very hard for me to look at the relationship with any level of nostalgia. - Maybe years from now, but yeah. - It's also again, the level of truth. really lying and actually having what seemingly no remorse almost between the two of them. You can't help but wonder, and I think the whole world was like, what else has this motherfucker done over these nine years? It's like, this is the one we know about, and then oh, there was one in Miami, and then there was one in San Diego. It's like, what else? Because he's good at fucking keeping it close to the chest, and he has no fucking issue lying to your face. No. So what else was there? Like, I get what you're saying, it's like, that's difficult, that's difficult. And it also makes it feel like you look back on the relationship and times that you did think that we're good, that we're happy memories, and you think like, well, did they didn't really like me or respect me during those times, right? Because I don't know. What do you miss about the relationship? I would say, inside jokes, being goofballs together, the fun, funny, just stupid stuff. That like, comfortability of like, you've like the same language, like we know each other. There's a deleted clip from Vanderpump of you, Tom and Raquel in a hot tub in Mexico, and you say, it looks like we're in a thruple. That feels like a foreshadowing now knowing what we know, what specific moments did you have to look back on or you look back on now that you're like, whoa, something so fucking shady was going on in that exact moment, and I didn't know, I didn't know. That one, in particular, that's the big, he's like fingering her in the hot tub, you like don't know. I'm like, this is hilarious to you guys, like I'm so drunk, and I'm like, this is so funny. And by the way, his whole thing about like skinny dipping and angliding, I went hang gliding, and I clearly went skinny dipping, like I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Anyways, there's that, there were times where we would have like a bunch of people over in our house, and we have a guest bedroom, and that guest bedroom gets used a lot by a lot of our different friends, and her being one of them, and we would have friends who would be like, bring over the dog, so like my brother would come and bring his dogs, and our friend Jesse Montana would come and bring India, which is like my dog's best friend. And Rachel would bring Graham over, who is honestly a terror, he bit me before, he's not a well-trained dog. He's kind of a little jerk, but we would let it go because we're like, that's our friend's dog, maybe he'll, and she would always purport it to be like, it was because like maybe like when her and James had him together that maybe like, it was the way he was raised as a puppy, and I'm almost like, clearly James was not the problem. Like I try to like move the food bowl, and he will try to bite me, like he's crazy. He's very cute. But crazy. It's not his fault. It's not his fault. Right, the owner's fault. It's right in your dog. Yeah. Anyways, we would have people that would come over, stay in the guest room, stay on our couch, it's a very normal thing. And sometimes I'd be like, all right, well it's like two, I'm going to go to bed, turn the music off, or come here, and my poor neighbor has so many times been like, hey, and I'm like, I'm not even down there anymore. I feel like go down there and be the person, it's like, can you please? And it just was like so annoying. And there were times where I would go up to bed or whatever because it's late and I have a life and a career and responsibilities and you know, 28 year old failed pageant queens don't. And so they'd be able to stay up super late and hang and have no reason to get up the next morning. And that's fine if you weren't fucking my boyfriend also at the same time. And there were times like that where if I could go back and be like, why are like, what's going on? Right. Things like that. Do you think they ever had sex while you were upstairs? Yes. I do. I think they had sex in my guest room while I was sleeping in my own bed that he and I went to bed in together and then he left the bed and went to the guest room and fucked her. Yes. I believe that. God bless you. God. God bless you. Ariana. That's like trust issues like how like fuck fuck him because how do you even begin to like trust someone after like that level of like nine years or someone and they're that fucking comfortable in the home that you co-own. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And like when people say Tom's house, I'm like, excuse me, it's my house. We own that house equally, so I don't ever want to hear that. In one episode you said, Raquel is kind, sweet, and loyal and has just been a delight since the day I met her. How would you describe her now? Oh my god. Lost. Lost. Um, I mean, I don't know her. Yeah. I realize now I never knew her. But I certainly don't know her now and we don't, I don't know anyone who does know her. And so it's hard to say, but based on what I've seen lost and empty and just, um, potential, I don't know. Yeah. I think a lot. It's hard to say because it's like, I don't really know what's going on. Some of the behavior has at times seems sociopathic, but at the same time, I'm not really sure like what is the real deal. Yeah. It just sucks that you were kind of in the middle of something that someone that has clearly no remorse was involved in the destruction of also your relationship. Sure. And I, at the time, was like, I kept telling her like, it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to like, fuck, you were so nice to her. Are you on it? Do Raquel and Tom make sense together to you? No. No. I mean, unless he has changed everything that he has ever said that he's looking for in someone, um, then no. How did you feel watching them on screen together in Raquel's apartment? Like that was the first time we all kind of see them able to romantically interact with her like, oh my gosh, this is so weird. We can't kiss on camera together. Like, how did it feel watching your partner of nine years, just literally the day before I think it was look at you being like, I'm going to her place. Yeah. I'm going like also just so shameless. So by the way, after he filmed that scene with her, he came back to my house. And it was essentially, I mean, you saw how many flowers were there. So I, there were probably like 15 people there. I still had not slept. Still not eaten. My friend Janet came, got all kinds of things. She was making French onion soup to like, check, cuz it's my favorite. That's my favorite too. Yeah. So she's making French onion soup. Our friends had all brought over like wine and we were just watching drag race. And every, it was essentially a funeral, right? Because these were all also people who were friends with him and were friends with her. And they were like, we've lost these friends because we cannot like, and good conscious. There's no, there's nothing they, they, we've lost them as well. Because we don't want to, there's no way I can imagine if he's willing to do that to me. Is he willing to do to you? Like, exactly. So I can understand. And so he walked in the house after filming that scene, yelled at everybody. This is his house too. He referred to it as a party that I was having a party. I went to bed. It was like 9 p.m. I finally fell asleep on the couch. He went upstairs, Kristen and our, another one of our mutual friends Courtney had to be like, you should probably go like, why are you here? And then eventually he left in the repoparazzi shots of him going back to her apartment after. So he came back to the house, yelled at everybody to like, get out of his house and blah, blah, blah. And then we find out later on he was definitely like tuning into like the cameras in the house like watch, like we were doing literally nothing. We were, you called it party. We were having a funeral. Thank you. Exactly. You're done. Bye. So, but that scene was very cringe on so many levels. And I think it was that scene and that, that conversation that I watched that made me, when you asked me like, did they make sense to you, I was like, no. It was awkward. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I love you, and he was like, no, I said, they love you, but I love you too. Like, how did you also feel knowing that they said to each other that they love each other? I mean, I kind of knew that before watch, I mean, knew that before watching it. Yeah. That that was like, where they're at. Yeah. But it was cringe. Do you think Tom misses you? Um, yeah, I do. Do you know that? Like has anything been said? No. You just know. Like, as someone that he would go to for advice on mostly everything, um, up until like that moment, or I just think that there's no way that he doesn't, because he's been making a lot of like very questionable decisions of the last two months, and he doesn't have that like sounding border that advisor anymore. What is the extent of an apology that you've received from each of them at this point? Hers was like a nothing. Hers was a text message that was very like, I just don't know what to say, except that I'm sorry. Like, that was it. That was that day. It was March 3rd that I got that one. That was that night, I went to a concert to see Tulsa. - My friends were like, "Let's get you out of the house. "Let's go, just do something fun, "and then we'll go back and we'll heal." But, and then at the reunion, it was very subpar. - It was like a rehearsal speech, and I was just like, "Chut the fuck up." - Right, it's like someone told you to say these exact lines, like nothing is inside here. - Yeah, nothing had clicked. I didn't feel like it was genuine. - Also, that kind of text message, you're like, "That is the kind of text messages you send, "when you were a bitch the night before "because we were drunk and you said some things." And you're like, "I'm really sorry. "I don't know what to say, I'm in bear." Like, you had an almost year affair with my boyfriend. Like, maybe you should send multiple pages of an explanation and it like, "Okay, and what about Tom?" - Well, obviously you saw how, well, I told you how that night went. The next day, not much better, and then that scene that you saw, which was two hours, and there was a lot of way worse things that he said, like, what is he saying? - Like at one point, he was like, "Oh, well, I'll keep taking care of the house. "Like, I always do." - What is his obsession with the batteries and the fucking toilet paper? He's like, "I take care of this house." Like, "You have an assistant." - Like, she goes and gets the, like, he says, "Hey, we need this." And she goes and gets it. Like, it's not like-- - Right. - You know why he's standing over back there? - I literally thought I'd take to have a girl being like, "How did not get cheated on 101?" And she's stalking the house with like, batteries and toilet paper. I'm like, "If only Ariana had stalked "the toilet paper." - Right. - Like, he acted as if, like, that was a huge point of contention and like why he cheated. He's like, "She would never stalk the house." Like, "Aryana didn't do these things." And you're like, "Bro." - I noticed, yeah, like over the last two months, I've noticed like, there was one day I was doing, I think I was shooting SpawnCon like downstairs at one point. And all of a sudden, he's like, "Ask his assistant, "like, does she know where the ladder is?" And it was by me, so she brought it. And he's like, "I wanted to change the filter "around the air conditioner." I'm like, "What, you want to do that now?" 'Cause now you have this thing, you have to like uphold that you like to do all these things. - I am the man of the house, it's a chill. - Yeah, so it's so cringe. Would you go back and change anything you did? - Honestly, I want to say, no, because I feel like, listen, I've seen people online be like, she wasn't perfect. - Well, obviously, who is? - Who is. - She's not innocent. Okay, I don't have to be. I was very much a committed partner in this relationship. Faults, what does it, warts and all. I was very much committed and I feel like I was doing my absolute best as a partner. But I don't think I would do anything differently just because I feel like all I can do is my best. And whether my best was good enough or not for anyone, that's what it was. And I feel like, yeah, I could have been less trusting. I could have been more paranoid or I could have been, I could have followed or I could have bought pens and batteries or whatever. But ultimately, I think that if I go back and try to like change all the things that I could, what a cut of a shut up, I mean, I would never stop. So, do you think that had you not caught him? Do you think you guys would still be together? - It's hard to say in this moment because there was a plan. Still together, I almost think no, given that I know about this plan now. - Can you explain what the plan was to people? - The plan was, I think, to end the relationship under the guys, like that Valentine's Day conversation. For that to eventually stick, eventually that would be the, that was the end game, to break up with me without any mention of any sort of affair or cheating or anything. Whether that was pre-reunion or not or pre-want going to film winter house or not. And then, you know, go about whatever and then they would just start dating. - Yep. - But the narrative that he was the victim in our relationship or that I was just, I just suck. So, would have already been planted. I think that was part of like a, there was a master right plan. - Yeah, it's a little wild to see like, how much he was working it towards the end there. Like, you guys weren't really in this season that much. And then to watch like halfway through, or even a little bit farther than halfway through, he just is coming out of the woodwork, complaining to Tom. Oh my gosh, we're not connecting. We don't have sex, I don't know. Like, it is pretty diabolical now that you watch it. Like, oh, this was a whole plan. Set the stage, I'm not happy. We don't have sex. We don't connect and then end it. And then, and all he thought was gonna work perfectly and thank fucking God it didn't. 'Cause it's disgusting. - No, I'm actually like, there was at one point, I think it's him, or Schwartz had said to me at one point, like, I'm so sorry that you found out this way. And I was like, I'm so glad that I found out this way. Because if I had found out the way that y'all had planned, it, are like, are you kidding? Like, it would have been, I would have been just a cog in the machine, of this whole narrative, this whole thing. - Do you ever think back to like, that night with the phone and you're like, thank God. - Yeah. - And I also think, what the, what was it? It felt like a beam, like, I hate to say a lightning bolt. No, literally. But it really, truly felt like a lightning bolt of do this right now. And it's like, I don't know, that's why I say, like, it's about like, it's some sort of divine intervention because like, and I'm not like, I don't really believe in God. - Right. - I don't, I'm not a religious person in any means. There is something that just went, like, something went off and it's so weird. Because I don't know how to describe it. Because like, so many other times I would have been, I could have even asked me that. And he was like, why didn't you go through my phone, you know, when I was sleeping or whatever. And I'm like, 'cause I just didn't ever wanna do that. And be sneaky like that. Like, I don't wanna be sneaky. And that makes me feel sneaky. - Mm-hmm. - But, yeah. - Thank God. - A woman's intuition is never wrong. What have you now uncovered that repulses you about this whole situation? - The flying her to different places. I know that she was, that, I watch what happens live, appearance, where Schwartz was covering his mouth and acting all weird. - Yeah. - In the hotel room. She was there in New York. I know for a fact. He was so, he was using like other people's credit cards and things to like basically making them pay for things and then benmoing them later so that like, it was just really mess. And you know what, honestly, it makes me really upset is I feel like he put people in a position that they felt like they didn't know what to do. And I feel bad because I feel like, if that just, I can only imagine how heavy, like how much that weight on that, yeah. - Like this was a whole fucking operation that he started to get running where it's like, the credit card here have some a booker in the hood. Like it was like, who knows how much farther it would have gone? - Sure. And having the band and the touring and stuff like that, I feel like it was a very easy way to be like, well, I have to be out of town and then she could then be flown to wherever that show was. And I would have no idea because he's coming home exactly when he's supposed to come home. Of course he's out ladies playing a show. Like there's nothing about it. Like he was very good with that. - It does start to make you wonder was the, is this band just a whole cover for the to fair? 'Cause like objectively, I know you're in love, Ariana, but like, it's not great, the band's not great. - I feel like it's gotten, well, wait. - Has it gotten worse? - Or did you just open your eyes? - Or did I know? - Can you now just like unbiasedly look at it and be like, that, those were love goggles. - Yeah. - And now we flicked them off and you're like, okay, don't need to watch that anymore. - Do you know if there was a night ever that you had sex with Tom the same day, he had sex with the workout? - I don't know that. I don't know that. Oh, that would be extra therapy sessions for that week. - Yeah, I would love to know, would you? - Well, well, I've already had my pan, I'm good. - Okay, right. So now it would just be like, oh, of course, like an LOL moment, right? We've already gone through the worst. Now like just like the details just become like, oh, that's sick. - But you see like sometimes it makes me laugh because at this point, it's like, it is so, again, you ask that question and I'm like, like, I don't feel so, but seems like enough. - Right, right, I don't know. - The reunion airs this week. - Mm-hmm. - How did you feel going into the reunion and how did you feel walking out of it? - I felt going into it, like, like, it had only been like, what was it? Okay, March 1st, we filmed the reunion in March 23rd. It had already felt as though it, it felt like there was like a wall, like a divider had been built somehow between the current, the past and the present. And that feels so weird and maybe that is again, like a compartmentalizing coping mechanism, but it also felt as though going into it, we were all on the same page. Like, and that's never happened. So that I felt gave, not just me, but Shina, Lala, Katie, James, we all had this like, vote of confidence amongst each other. And we all knew that we were all on the same page with that. And so it felt like a boost of confidence in that way, of just knowing like, I don't have to sit here and question whether or not I'm right or not wrong, or if Lala was right or wrong, or if James or Shina or Katie is right or wrong, we know and we feel that like deep and are good. And that felt good. - Yeah. - It was weird. I mean, honestly, that three weeks was like, really fucking weird. And so to go into a reunion, and I'm a, not sitting next to him, but I'm also not like, he would say stuff, and I would be like, 'cause normally I would be like, well, what he's trying to say? 'Cause he'd always almost like needed a translator at times, because he would have an opinion that we had talked about things, you know, at home. And so I understood where he was coming from or like what he was trying to get at, but like, then he would voice it and no one else could get it. So I would be like, okay, so what do you really, this is what we're, and so to be there and like sink yourself by the water. What was it like, sitting and having to listen to Raquel? Painful. And not painful in the sense of like, she hurt my feelings. Painful in the sense of like, I really did not feel like she was connected to the moment or reality at all. I really feel like, again, then March 23rd, that the two of them, both of them, somehow, maybe it was like they were feeding it to each other. 'Cause I don't know who else would be to, they thought people are just mad. Yeah. I'm a little mad at you and like, we'll be fine. Like, I think that's like where both of their minds were at. And so the gravity of what they had done or were doing or whatever it was just not hitting at all, he was still, I mean, look, I think she just, I don't know. And I told her I was like, I mean, I don't know why you're sorry now. You thought you were a hot shit when you were doing it, right? You thought, like, are you kidding? Uh-huh. So, how would you describe your emotions during the reunion? I was angry. At times, I was sad. But I honestly think that the biggest thing that I felt that there was like a question that was asked for the end that I was just like, I was so grateful for my friends, both the friends that were there that day and otherwise. And I honestly, a lot of it felt numb in a way because it felt like as angry as I was, it was almost difficult to connect to. Once you go angry, it's very hard to like come back from that. Totally. And yeah, that's where I was, I think. Was there anything you went into the reunion with of like, I'm making this up, like, I'm not gonna look her in the eyes or I'm gonna make sure that I don't look him in the eyes. No, literally, I was like, I'm not looking at either of them. I will communicate to Andi or Talisa. If I have to look that way. Otherwise, I will speak to the, the, the, the, the wall. Emptiness, the, the soundstage. Was that like, you're literally that was me. Like, I was like, I'm not looking at either of them. And then eventually a couple of times I did. But I mean, that was, you were like, it was at your main thought going into it. Yeah, it was just like, I will not speak to them. I will speak, like, I will answer. Right, but I'm not, we're not gonna, you don't deserve my, I got it. Did you feel like you were able to get closure from the reunion? Yeah, I honestly felt like I had closure before that, before the reunion. And then at the reunion, I mean, I said what I felt like saying in the moment, but I honestly felt as though everything that happened, I think I even said it, but it didn't make it to air, but I was just like, you, this happening, I mean, you made it really easy for me to just not give a shit about you. Like breakups are hard, you miss the person, you know, you think, what could I have done? What could they have done? Are we gonna get back together? You know, you have all these things, right, when you go through a breakup. But when something like this happens, you're like, bye, there's literally nothing about that person. Right. Even if I missed him, like in the first few days, like even that feeling of missing him, that's not whoever that is is not that person. So I feel like that's also a good bit of advice for people listening that maybe be going through something similar of like sometimes weirdly, the more that the person hurts you in terms of how they decide to betray you, you can find some type of hope of like, that just made it so much easier to never look back. And that is even more hurtful to fucking person, that fucked with you, 'cause it's like, it would have been like, if I kinda, if you fucked up a little bit and we had a fight and then we did, like he closed that door, you didn't even have to fucking push, slam that door shut. And I almost think that that was why the elaborate plan was what it was, is because then I would, then I would wanna get back together, right? Of course. Or I'd be sad, or I would be, you know, struggling. No. It's thank but. God. Thank God. Was there anything specific that was really hurtful that he said to you, that you kinda can't shake still? I think it was the, it was the way that he weaponized any struggle I've ever had with my mental health. That to me, it was like the most hurtful. (soft music) Apparently, there is something so wild. Okay. There's something so wild that's gonna be revealed in the reunion that could potentially have you guys not when it's signed back up to be on the show. Have you thought of, I know your group tap must be going off. No, we all are just, we haven't even. And I'm very like, 'cause I've talked to our showrunners and stuff, and I'm like, I think I know what the deal is, but I am not entirely sure. There's a couple things out there. Rekel's pregnant. I don't think so. A fair started during James and Rekel era. Maybe. Right, but is that that crazy? Right, 'cause what difference really would that be? Right, we all hate them, we still hate them, okay. Lisa knew the whole time. I don't think so. I don't, I don't think so. I am, she would have brought, here's why. She would have brought that, she would have brought that up. Like I had to be early on. Because again, there's a lot of speculation of like things being staged and whatever. Right. This all happening after filming, just from a, just from a logistic production standpoint. Not to mention the fact that like, this isn't my real life and these are my real feelings. And this is something we're really going through. Right. But for those naysayers, just from a production standpoint, something like this happening months and months after we're not filming. And there's no cameras around and they had to borrow a crew from Housewives of Beverly Hills even film after. That is a nightmare for production and for our show. Because they want everything that's going to happen. It's like you want that to happen in real time while we're filming. Of course. Because otherwise, you lose it, it's gone, it's hearsay or it's this, you know, something happens off camera. That's like not ideal. Right. So again, if Lisa knew, she, there's no way. That's not possible. On the last one I have written down, which I think is, I mean, this would be fucking awful. Raquel hooked up with Brock. Oh, no, no, no, I don't think so. No, no, there's no way. What is something that could come out that would make you not want to go back to the show? I mean, anything that like makes me feel unsafe or for my dog to be unsafe, and it's something like that. It's like anything safety wise would be, I think the only thing that would make any of us be like, we're not coming back to film, but I mean, I can't see that. Like what the fuck? I know, I guess we're gonna see. I mean, I kind of have an idea. Do you want to tell us? You're thinking, oh, what? I mean, okay, you'll tell me off camera. We're like, that I really won't come back to film. Yeah, then you're literally kicked the fuck off and I get sued, so that'd be fun. Okay, but you think you have an idea? Yeah. Is it as bad as everyone speculating? I don't think it's something like that. Right. It's easier that wild. It's just like more drama. Yeah, I think so, but I don't know. 'Cause again, I haven't seen it, so I don't know. I got it. Okay, let's go. - I get like happy for five seconds. - Okay, because what I, should we have more roses? - Yeah, can we have a little bit? Yeah, let's pour more of this. What I appreciate in you being really open today is like, I said to you when you walked in, this is sadly really fucking relatable. I remember sitting on the bed in New York City and being like, he hasn't done anything. I just have the fucking feeling of what I need to. And I looked him in the eyes, Ariana, and I said, I need you to open your iPad. And he's like, I'll give you my phone. I said, no, the iPad. - Oh my God, so what was it on that? What was the? - Fully having a sexting nude with his nutritionist. He was a professional athlete and he would show me his nutrition for all the time. Like, she recommended the bison, and I'm gonna eat the bison. - Oh, right, because he's like, her advice is like so great. He was trying to get to her, he would talk about her to me. And I remember when he opened it, she was not the first person I went to 'cause I was like, okay, but you know what's crazy? I didn't even need him to open it. The minute I asked him and I put it down in front of him. I pulled it out from my back, I said, open it. He went, go, swipe. I was like, oh, I'm not, like I knew. And then I saw it and I remember going into the bathroom throwing up and I think we can talk about this a little bit, which is, I wouldn't say it's like embarrassment, but there's like a level of for five seconds because this is also the person you love. - Yeah. - Your love doesn't go away the minute you see it, you hate them. - Right, yeah. - Five seconds goes and love with this person. You, there is a part of you that wants to be like, no, no, no way, no way, yeah. - It's not real. - It's not real. - But it is. - But it is. - And it's like that gut pun. - Yeah, and it's like, do you have any advice and all thing too of like for someone sitting there that just found out that they were getting cheated on? Like, how do you mentally wrap your brain around? Being in love with someone that you trusted and then the ultimate betrayal and trying to be like, I wanna go have them hug me 'cause they're usually the person that consoles me, but you also fucked me. And like, I would be like, look, maybe have that moment right now. Give yourself an hour to have that moment or that night and then get away from them. Like, obviously we're still in the same house, but we are most definitely in different rooms. You have like, I know exactly like when he's coming back to the house and I know up to like, I, we do not cross paths. That being said, like as much as you can have that conversation, do what you need to do, get your ducks in a row and then get away from them and don't allow them to like come back into your life. Because again, if it's somebody who is capable or talented enough of being able to create those lives and stuff, they'll be able to create something to pull you back in at some point. And then, so you have to separate. You have to go no contact. You're so right. And then also, if you go back, they're just gonna be smarter next time. And that is I think the worst of like, there's gonna be so many things that are said to you, but I also believe like there's one thing if someone comes to you and tells you and it's like, I did this, I feel disgusting, I'm sorry. When you find it, when they're apologizing, they're sorry they got caught. - Oh yeah, keep that up. - If that aren't gonna apologize because I've had a lot of women that I've spoken to online since all of this have said, my ex was the same way. He was angry. He was yelling at me, he was pissed. And it's like, yeah, the house of cards has fallen and they're angry about that. They're not so much like remorseful or upset. It's not about how you feel. It's about the fact that all the effort that went into creating this, to building that little house of cards got blown over so fast and now what? - And I fucking love how much you talk about your friends because I and I also love how you talk about this distortion of reality. Like the great Esther Perrell always talks about like when you get cheated on, your reality becomes so distorted and you are like wobbling essentially. You can't see you straight because you were the person I actually loved most and trusted the most in my life and you just ripped the rug out underneath me. You have to immediately surround yourself and I know you're embarrassed. Part of you also sometimes doesn't want to tell anyone because you're like, oh my god, now I'm that person. Or you know, if you tell people it's over. - Right, once it's out. Well, it's like they always say to like, whenever if you and your partner just get in like petty fights, like don't tell your friends because they always say that, right? But it's like in this, if it's this big of a thing, - You gotta do it. - You gotta do it and you gotta surround yourself with your friends as quickly as possible. And then that way they can also hold you accountable and be like, absolutely fucking not. You are not allowed, like this is not happening. And then also, if you are in a situation where you do have a gas lighter and manipulator and you have a friend over, you have someone sitting right there going, no, I heard what they said. I saw how they were, it's not just you because that was my big thing is it was like, there was no one else there. And so I would question everything. - Yeah, and then my friends that were, you know, the house, like again, like when he came back and we said, are you guys here? It's like, well, thank fucking God, see? I was like, so you guys saw that, right? Like, if I was like, my anxiety is going through if I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna look. But see, that's what it's been like. And they're like, okay, yes. So now we see the reality because otherwise, you know. - And that's again, I just think it's so important to talk through this because when you're in it, it almost becomes impossible to see straight. And you have to remember, you're too fucking close and there's no, like you have to act, like we just keep saying and I always say it back to myself when I have friends that go through it. Like you loved this person 30 seconds before you just - Oh my God. - Found it. So that isn't gone immediately. The hurt, the anger, all of it. But you still love that person. So you need someone, and you have to remember, what your friends have, no ulterior motives other than making sure you're good. And so just catch yourself if you're going against your friends in that moment. It's 'cause you're trying to hold on to something and let them be the anchor to pull you the other way 'cause they're actually just looking out for you. - Yeah. And talk to them about it. - Yeah. - If you're sad, you miss them or you want to talk about like good times and stuff like that. Talk to your friends about it. Like, and then just, but keep that, that no contact. I'm telling you, that wasn't, I think that was the whole like, in my life, blah, blah, blah, 'cause I knew that I would go no contact. - I'm so proud of you. I knew that part, but I knew even if it was just a breakup, I knew I was going to go no contact. - Wow, how did you know that? I just felt it in my gut that that was like the way to go. And like, in the past, I had not done that with other relationships. - Yeah. - And then like, I've been on TikTok a lot the last like, three years. And I would see stuff about that. And I was like, okay, I think that that's like, in this situation, that's what I would have to do. - Yeah. - And I think that that was, you know, part of what was like, oh, I don't know, the troubling to him or something. - What the, you wouldn't speak to him? - Yeah. - What did he expect? - Right, that we would do the shorts and cany, like dog custody thing, like, we're not doing that. - No, you're getting the dog. - Absolutely. - Oh my, what is it Jennifer Cooler take? - I'm getting the dog. - I'm taking the damn dog. Fuck you. - Oh, I'm so good. - So you're like, I'm fucking taking the dog. - Well, I paid for her adoption. My name is on her adoption paper. - And she loves you more. - I paid her vet bills. I took her for walks. I gave her baths. - See, I don't have things that I would do that he wasn't doing. - He gets the batteries. You take care of the fucking dog. - Yeah. - Dude, no, but I get what you're saying and that's another point. When you are so strong to be like, I'm not speaking to you. This is a boundary mother, fucker. Oh, it enrages them. - Yeah, I think the setting of boundaries has been. - Oh, you know. Well, when you saw him at Lisa's breaking, like, I don't know if it was real or not, honestly. - Dude, I felt a little bit like a performance, to be honest with you. But then also, of course, I'm gonna be jaded because I don't trust. - Right, and we have to. - And he had just yelled at me. And then the day after he yelled at me again, after the Rachel scene. So it was hard to say, but that being said, the biggest thing that he was upset about in that moment was that he doesn't get to have another conversation with me. 'Cause I said, you don't get another one. - It's done. - Like, say what you need to say now because we won't be doing that. And by the way, my friend Meredith and my other friends, like, they, she's the Cat McCorn Queen of my dreams. She made a spread sheet that was like, who's gonna be staying with me what night? I did not stay alone for weeks. And even after I went, I had friends fly in from New York to make sure I got to the wedding in Mexico that I went to. And then even after I came back from Mexico, I still had friends that would stay with me every night. Make sure I ate, make sure they were like, they had like their own group text. Now they've friends that didn't know each other before become friends that I've like always wanted them. I'm like, you guys would love each other. - Right, now they're like. - Now they're like, it's like, honestly, like, the community that is, our friends like on and off the show is like the most incredible group of girls, gays, and thays like I've never like honestly I could not like I don't know how I could write like if I was a super talented writer I couldn't have created that in like yeah like absolutely incredible and that's what I think again you kind of talk about like when you're going through it let people actually help you guys because doing it alone is torture yeah you can't do it alone you can't or you go back to the one person you love the most which is the person that hurt you yeah or you yeah you think you can yeah and then you end up you know yeah it's just not healthy or you end up self-medicating or doing my my classic way of coping is isolation or sleeping and it's like he always he kept bringing that up like she just sleeps all the time like um yeah maybe you should look inward that is your partner okay or depressed or like what's going on like maybe her dog just died right like be there for her get in bed yeah get in bed get in bed get in bed bitch like what the fuck like that isn't that where sex happens right you want sex about she's laying in bed all day get in bed I'm in the bed she's in bed naked waiting go in talk to her emotionally connect with her and then maybe right men are so dumb like that she's not right now that we say it he's like she's in bed all day and you're bitching about not getting fucked what what are we missing your dog I'm not in the place for it to happen to okay rumor on the street is there not single is this like a situation ship are we in a full relationship are we just fucking are we having like what are we doing what are we doing Ariana what's going on I'm really really enjoying myself um I am seeing someone they live across the country in New York so obviously you know it's kind of there's that whole aspect to it but I would say it's like really really great it's good and you guys met where we met at a wedding when like literally 10 or 11 days after I found this out which people are like what are you like literally I just met this person right we did not start dating when I met them right we just started talking right and then we were talking and talking and talking and it progressed and it's right you had a moment to grieve you're grieving still but you can also fucking go see people and also it's like really nice like on like okay so I met him at this wedding and all we did was talk like we stayed up all night just talking like that's it that's all you wanted literally all I wanted I was like what do you time what is this and then he flew to where he lives and I flew where I am and then we just face time and talked and talked and it was just like oh my gosh like I'm getting to know this person and the conversations we were having were like so amazing it's not like we were like we met and we're dating you know but like it was really great and now I've been able I've been going to New York for work and so when I go to New York for work I've been getting to see him and it's like so nice that's what I think also people understand is like there's nothing wrong with any timeline post something that dramatic happens you have to do what feels right and so people that are like oh my god it's so soon are yeah like well then you do like if I was like a down on one knee proposing to this man then we'd be having an intervention right now we need to like reel it in but like you know going luckily for New York being able to go every couple of weeks this last this just this last month yeah and just work see my friends see him and like just really like love life and honestly like having someone that literally will be like we'll be on the phone and he'll be like you know we're working we're doing stuff he's like hey can we just get like five minutes or like we just like have like quality time on the phone I'm like are you kidding me my tree I'm like okay great this is great how okay give all the ladies advice of like nine years is a long mother fucking time how do you not overthink it and allow yourself to be with someone that's not the person you've been with for nine year it's like a little bit of a mind-fuck to be like open to getting back out to open into anything yeah I think honestly if you are overthinking it be honest with yourself that you're overthinking it and just say like I'm overthinking this or this is where I'm at be honest I think that honesty and vulnerability to the sexiest things I think in any person and even if you're just like going out on a bunch of like casual dates with multiple people be honest with these people and if that if they're like not down for it then they're not for you and yeah and honestly just like being honest with yourself too and saying like this is where I'm at this is what I'm ready for this is what I'm not ready for because then the day that I met the sky I literally said this is what I can handle I can handle us talking I can handle you telling me I'm pretty I can maybe handle a smooch but beyond that that's that's it and he was very enthusiastically like okay great that sounds great I just want to hang out right so I was like okay cool like maybe like just be very clear about your boundaries and what you're okay right it's like you don't have to go in and be like so I have to be a fully but it's like hey and honestly accepting like happiness and good things while you're healing there's no like nothing bad about that is nothing people that are judging are also just like either you haven't been through it or like you went through it and you did something different that didn't work for you and tried to judge like let everyone do what they want to do because we're all different people and we all are in different situations like and like I said someone does we were saying that someone does something shit like this to you that door is slammed shut it is way easier to grieve a relationship or that is that cut and dry yeah yeah it is one that isn't I can't believe this I just remember you said his family didn't reach out to you because they have they still not reach out it's kind of weird no yeah I mean I understand like what would they say I guess I would just think they'd be like hey this sucks like wishing you the best just that period just like nine years there was some respect yeah not great okay this is a fresh start yeah and the beginning of a new era for you what do you want for yourself I want independence on like every level I want to be able to be completely financially independent thank God I don't have like a ton of tied things but I want to be like financially independent and successful I want to open my sandwich shop with Katie and have that be a total hit which I think it will be what street is it on Robertson oh I am there do you know how there's like no good sandwiches in LA and you as we're so right the only ones are like male like the fats no no offense to fat cells no but it's like it's only fat cells yeah or like Uncle Paulie exactly that's just so right not the vibe right for right it's not that then what is it I love it I love it so you guys are opening yes fabulous you're not you're not letting it like go to the wayside like this is still happening yeah good for you yeah so I'm very I'm very excited about all about yeah I just want to be independent independent and successful I mean all the things that I always wanted previously but now it's like really nice to be able to do it on and I want to be a solo homeowner want to own my own home with no one else on the deed God bless yeah and you deserve it okay last two questions okay what do you want everyone to know about you outside of this scandal you're like I had too much rosé leave me alone like I love long walks on the beach I like rosé and I want to the French countries I'm like okay look I just want people to know that like I understand that reality TV is very over the top at times and yes of course we love the drama I love the drama I mean I'm a love island stand as we know but I just want people to know that like again like what you were saying like on the other side of it we are real people I'm you know kind of like a perpetually barefoot girl from Florida you know and I I love my girls and I love my friends and I just think that something I hope that all of this stuff brings is that we all just kind of like join together because I just think that I love women and I think we are the fucking best and I just think that when we team up like we are unstoppable I am so happy you came today because I truly think like you are You're so classy and you have such a head on your shoulders, even though in the midst of quite literally one of the biggest, most painful moments of your life. I'm so sorry this happened to you, but I do weirdly think, thank God, Ariana. Thank God, because you would have potentially been with him and not known. And it's like you deserve so much fucking better. And you know what? Let him go do his thing, let her go do her thing, whatever she's going through. Like, everyone is meant to not be in whatever it just was and you're amazing. And I can't wait to watch the reunion, although it's like, do you have any fear of like people watching it? Like is there anything you want to preface before we turn on our TVs? I just hope I wasn't like to cut through. No bitch, you could be, I don't know. I want it. We want the drop box. I think I go in, I don't know, I blacked out. I think everyone was like, "Lala's gonna destroy." And we hope Ariana's right underneath being like, a little bit, you know, getting in there. Yeah, I'm excited. Cheers. Cheers. (upbeat music)