Are Big Changes Brewing In Portland? Gary Trent Jr. Investigation + Latest LeBron Updates

(upbeat music) Hello and welcome to the Who Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which you're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining me from Dallas, he's back from Los Angeles. He's Ben McMahon. - Howdy, Barnars. - I'm McMahon, I was scrambled back from Las Vegas early 'cause I had to be in place. And in the studio for LeBron's big podcast on Thursday, where he was gonna make many announcements. - How'd that go? - Yeah, we'll get in that later, but we're not leaving with it, so I think that tells you. - That's right. All right, so I went to Adam Silver's press conference on Tuesday night in Las Vegas. You know, I did McMahon, the rumor they had the presser in Vegas, it was like a room that they used from multiple things, not just press conferences. So they had like in the back of the room, they had like these big giant leather oversized chairs. And I was like, I don't mind if I do. I mean, how many boarded governors press conferences have I been to in my career? 37, 111, whatever. Like, why don't you sit back here? - You stayed in it for the whole presser? - Yeah, what's the difference? - Did you take an app? - No, I was totally comfortable to set back and paid, I was paying attention. Like Vinny Goodwill and Ben Golliver, are your span colleagues? They were up there like in the folding chairs, you know, on the edge of their seat, you know. But I was just back in the back, what's the difference? - Did you order a diet coke? - No, I would love that. I think they cleared the catering out, but I definitely looked around to see if it was available. Anyway, he said a lot of stuff in that press conference. I actually don't think any of it was super duper newsworthy except for one thing. - Okay. - And that one thing is what I'm going to talk about right now. And outside of one MBA city, I have seen basically nobody talk about it despite how I think it was the most important thing. And in fact, I don't even think we've covered it almost at all on ESPN. - And that is the situation that is developing in Portland. And I know we've got LeBron, I know we've got contract extensions and all these things. I mean, I know there's a lot of newsworthy things that people care about, but there's a whole lot of stuff on hold. LeBron's decision, the collide trade and the aspiration rule and the Gary Trin investigation. - We got a lot of extensions, like what's going up with Carl Town's extension? Is he going to extend or not? Is Michael Porter Jr., that's something that Shawn Marx from the next general manager was talking about. If Michael Porter Jr., for example, doesn't come to a contact extension, would they trade him, you know, stuff? Like there's stuff going on, but this to me is the most interesting. So let me just start right here, McMahon. Let me take you down to Primrose Path, okay? You remember-- - Is that a Rose joke? - What's that? - That was a Rose reference, like-- - No, but you know, when you're good at the game, you can throw roses in there. I don't even know what the Primrose Path is, but you remember back when the Seattle Supersonic's left Seattle? - I do. - Howard Schultz, who was the owner of the team, CEO of Starbucks, he sold the team. He's from Seattle, you know, has family there, all these investments there, Starbucks headquarters there. He got tired of owner of the team and he sold it to business bench from Oklahoma City. And those guys led by Clay Bennett and moved the team to Oklahoma City, big surprise, okay? And Howard Schultz's name was dragged through the mud there. He tried to sue and pretend like he didn't know their movie with Oklahoma City. - Sure. - Okay, so, but his name was mud there. In fact, a couple of years later, he tried to run for president and his bid went nowhere in part because he couldn't even win his block in Seattle because they all hated him there, okay? And so, subsequently, McMahon, when teams in markets, you know, when the Dallas Maverick sold, nobody thought they were moving. The Las Vegas stuff is laughable. When the Phoenix Sun sold, nobody thought they were moving, okay? When the Lakers sold, nobody thought they were moving. But subsequently, when teams that are in markets that are not 100% solidified sold, the owners who were outgoing went to pains to make sure that they did not become Howard Schultz, okay? They put Howard Schultz clauses basically into their sales contracts. Let me give you some examples. Cole, Herb Cole from who owned the box. One of his, he's passed away since one of Wisconsin's favorite sons founded the Cole's department store chain was the senator from Wisconsin for many years. He was just known basically as the senator. When he sold the team, they badly needed an arena. And he didn't want to sell it to somebody, even he was selling to some New York guys, some New York hedge fund guys. And he didn't, so he put it in the contract that they couldn't sell it. In fact, there was even a clause in there that if, that they couldn't move it, you mean? They couldn't move it. In fact, they would, if they did anything, they would have to sell it back to the NBA. They couldn't, they couldn't move it. He, no, he can't do anything 20 years after he's dead. But gosh darn it, Herb Cole was not going to be criticized or, you know, his name ruined drag through the mud because he sold to people who moved it, okay? Minnesota, Glenn Taylor. When he sold it, he took a bath, not a bath. He sold it for a billion five. But he could have sold it for so much more money to somebody who wanted to move it. He was, it took him years to sell the team in part because he was determined to sell it to somebody who would not move it. Because he didn't want his name. He was, again, he's one of Minnesota's favorite sons. He did not want his name drag through the mud and ruined after he spent a lifetime building it up as doing that, okay? The New Orleans Pelicans, Gail Benson, when she inherited the team from Tom Benson, her late husband, she has been adamant. This team is never leaving New Orleans, okay? And she has announced a plan to donate the teams after she dies to the city of New Orleans. So that it, you know, I don't know what happened for that, but if New Orleans city wants to sell it to somebody and they can move it, they'll blame it on the city. They ain't gonna blame it on her, all right? - Then New Orleans might be like, "Yeah, we'll take the sands, but the Pelicans we don't need them." - Well, then they can drag whoever the mayor is, then, okay, so this is where I'm taking you. Now, let me bring you to the Portland Trailblazers. Paul Allen died 2017, okay? His family foundation honed the team. It had to sell the team. Couple of years ago, Phil Knight, one of Oregon's most famous sons. And again, another man in his 80s, like Herb Cole, like I'm having a brain fart. - Glen Taylor. - Glen Taylor wanted to have, make sure legacy was okay, offered to buy the blazers from the Paul Allen estate to make sure that they would stay in Portland. The offer was rejected. Now, there are some shenanigans that went into that. Apparently, the way he approached wasn't good. And then there was some stuff that got leaked to the media. The point is, the Allen foundation could have sold her to Phil Knight did not, okay? When they sold it, they sold it to Tom Dundin, who we've now all heard, Dallas businessman. And there was nothing in there that would keep the team from moving. - And he's wielding that nothing is a weapon. - In fact, you could argue the opposite happened. A year or so, don't hold me to all these dates. There are a bit. There's some reporters in Portland who have reported on this extensively. Bill Orham, the columnist of the Oregonian, Sean Huyken, who has a sub-stack, the Rose Garden Report, I believe it's called. John Kenzano has his own media network. I'm not trying to steal anything from them. They have reported on this exclusively, Brian Berger, who's a podcaster from Portland. But around a year before the blazer's sold, they did a new lease in Portland. How long are leases with arenas usually? - I believe like, okay, C's for examples, they're built in their new arenas, 25 years. - Yeah, so, you know, I'll always lease double digit years, often a generation, five years. Five-year lease, okay? - I mean, that's a rookie extension. - And not only that, the blazers, the Allen Foundation owned the arena. How right? Paul Allen owned that arena, the Motor Center. Actually, his Motor Center. - Motor Center now, yeah. - Was called the Rose Garden Motor Center. The blazers owned the arena. They sold it to the city for $1, okay? Why would they do that, McMahon? Why would they sell it to him for $1? 'Cause now it's a city's problem. - That's right. Okay, so, what I'm saying to you is this is the, and I know that, you know, and this is a July conversation, I wouldn't talk about this at the trade deadline, but I think it's the most interesting thing happening in the league right now. - Well, because you have a team that's been there for a couple of generations for 50-some odd years, that is very possibly going to rip up their roots and rip city and move somewhere else. And, you know, this is different than when Clay Bennett bought the, and his group bought the sonnets, 'cause there it was like very transparent. Oklahoma City people are gonna want to move that team to Oklahoma City. That's what happened. Tom Dundin's not moving to put trailblazers to Dallas obviously. He's just gonna, he's gonna go wherever he can profit most. If that's important, he'll stay. If it's somewhere else, he'll lead. but it's not like there is, he's not trying to take. That team that franchise a move to his hometown. He's just trying to go where he can make the most money So Tom Dunton bought the team came out and I'm and I'm I'm summarizing here. Please don't take these as Drug quotes, but Tom Dunton came out and basically said I bought this team because it was one first. It was for sale He didn't say I've always wanted you know wanted to be in Portland And he said basically that he's not intending to donate or give any money to the renovation that Motor Center needs Apparently for the blazers to extend their lease. He basically said him buying the team was his donation Correct. I mean and hey if y'all want us to stay you better spend some money to like 600 million to renovate the arena Right, and I'm not gonna get into the blow-by-blow here because I can't summarize it But the city, state, and county are all trying to come together and to get one entity to agree to give money to a billionaire is a challenge to get three entities to all agree Long story short, it has not You know has not happened. Well, and according to the reporting coming out of Portland The blazers aren't really cooperating. They aren't being specific with their request. They're not being you know, they're they're not like Dispating in the in the process. It's it enough to there's been like Bill Warren base. You Wrote hey, is are they attempting to sabotage this right? So here's the sequence of events Adam Silver goes to Portland in March. There's a press conference. He says We're gonna get a deal here. We want to be in Portland long term. Okay Nothing's happened since March Adam Silver comes out and this is the most relevant statements that he makes this week where he basically said that the negotiations have gone off track and he Said he said he said he said what we're most focused on right now at the league office is the deal we discussed when we were in Portland in March I was hoping more progress would have been made by now on that agreement It seems they have gone off track in various ways We're working with both sides to ensure the trailblazers can have a long-term future in Portland But there are several open issues that still need to be resolved. This is Adam Sandler Adam Sandler my god Adam Adam Silver Rattling the saber even though Tom Dundin it's not it's not like Adam Silver's making threats But this is basically saying that there's open issues here and I will just say that There was no votes on expansion taken to move the expansion process along in at the owner's meetings in Vegas this summer There was a possibility that expansion would move forward that they would formally announce that they were expanding That did not happen. I'm not saying that those two are related. I'm just saying it did not happen But if you wanted one of your owners to have leverage to move a team you wouldn't necessarily Have expansion all lined up and announced because it takes it takes away some of the leverage so McMan, I think Beyond the basketball court the future of the Blazers in Portland is the most relevant thing and it matters more than just Portland because It matters to potentially Seattle Las Vegas who you know, maybe the NBA slows down It's expansion plans because they want to make sure that all their 30 teams are currently going to stay in place before they expand to another market Yeah, and listen Portland's a it's a it's a small market And it's a small market that has one major pro sports team. They don't have a Football team there. They don't have a baseball team there. They don't have a hockey team there This is this is it for them and it's it's a small market that like a lot of small markets has natural challenges in terms of revenue generation and so like I get why a guy who has no roots there who has no emotional attachment there who Frankly doesn't care about the fans whatsoever not he doesn't he does not care why Oda about Blazers fans It's just a simple matter of fact. I get why he's looking at that and and taking the approach of Pay up or piece out, but that that's the approaches. Hey, he's not trying and he's not trying to like be slick He's not trying to be smooth. He's not trying to get that right. I mean, he's just being is he act like a Texan Is that how a text that normally operates? I would say there's some politicians here in Texas for better or worse But now there's nothing like he this is not like he's not going there and like smooth He's doing the exact opposite. That's right. He's basically just being an arrogant Root like, you know, just not he's not he's there's nothing important about it. Well, that's well said. I agree with that I mean the entry so basically Tom Dundin like he's like he's gonna do what he wants, you know like This week, so he obviously owns the Carolina Hurricanes They just won the Stanley Cup and the Stanley Cup I was it just Jackson was it just this week that it came out that the engraver the engrave on there was that just this week So they showed pictures of the Stanley Cup and I guess and I'm ignorant to a lot of this stuff McMahon, so I want to apologize I'm not trying to overlook anything. I'm not trying to Be rude or get aggregated or insult anybody. I just just saying how I think it goes But I think you're you can have 55 names on the Stanley Cup every year You engrave on the Stanley Cup and then for some period of years your names the names are on So they put the players on and there's room for more names and you know you have coaches you have executives you have owners um and he used eight of the I seven I think of the spots for his family Tom Dundin including his wife and five children Now it's it's not the first time that it's someone has put other names of family members on the Stanley Cup But usually it isn't like you know children. You know, it's you know if it is children. It's Children who work for the team and so they had to omit some People who work for the team to make the room for the children. He just doesn't care. It's like it's my team I get to choose the 55 names I'm putting my My kid's names on there he doesn't care about people and we've talked about this before it's going to say he doesn't care about people He's just certain people he cares about Yeah, his family and like he cares about it'll spend on players because that's the product But the whole way that he approached the coaching search we've talked about the whole way of like not traveling to a guys during the playoffs They've had massive layoffs. I mean they gutted That that franchise like in in terms of you know behind the scenes people um Look If Adam silver really cared about the Portland Trailblazer stain in Portland he would have not allowed Tom Dunn to be approved to the owner So if if the trailblazer leave Portland that is on Adam silk a couple of things so one It's been reported that the the family that owns a couple of the teams there. I believe the um The women's soccer team And the WNBA team made a bid to buy the Blazers which would have You know assured there um assured them staying there But they didn't have the highest bid Dunn didn't had a higher bid and so You know they went with the highest bid the second thing that's interesting So so the Allen at the Allen foundation That owned the Blazers and sold them to Dunn then they just last week agreed to sell the Seahawks for 9.6 billion huge amount of um Of money obviously all-time record for American sports And according to reports and it's not a done deal and I'm not saying this for sure I'm just recording to reports They're selling 100% of this of the Seahawks they're selling they're all over their shares to the Seahawks Um in the case of Dunn then they only sold 80% and they kept 80% And some media in Portland is speculating that one of the reasons they kept the 80% and I don't I am not saying this They sold 80 and kept 20. I'm sorry. They kept 20. Okay. I'm not saying this. I'm just saying what's being reported. Okay That Speculated by media that one of the reasons you would keep the 20% is if the team moves The team's value would increase and Your 20% that equity would increase too. I you know, I'm a little surprised that Paul Allen didn't have Language in his will that would prevent something like this from happening as invested as he was in the Blazers They also took eight years to sell the teams. I don't understand. I'm not a state attorney so I can't Really say But but I think other than the underlying reasons of this just the palace intrigue of it all the reason I think it's interesting And I've spent 20 minutes here talking about and we'll move on Is that I think it's going to potentially affect expansion because if you look at the markets that you could expand to Or that you could move to there's not a lot of options here like man Because outside of Las Vegas in Seattle where are places that could legitimately take an NBA team that would be An upgrade on Portland in other words you would move the team. I mean you're starting fresh as far as a fan base wherever you go as well Like you would probably be part of an Omaha leadership group with you. Well Omaha is not an upgrade from Portland with all due respect Um, uh, yeah, I mean, we can talk about like Kansas City, Louisville, like, I don't know yet. So Kansas City. I have stats in front of me. Okay, well, that okay. Like, for example, Austin could host an NBA team, but Austin was down, let that happen. Correct. Because NBA teams have a perimeter that they can, that they control and defend. For example, when the kings were uncertain as to what was going to happen, with them, you know, they obviously almost moved to Seattle. They had another plan where they were going to move to Orange County. They were going to play in Anaheim. It was announced. Not sure if they like ever like had, you know, Anaheim Kings gear or whatever, but it was announced. And the Clippers, Sterling and Jerry Bus blocked it. They said, no, you can't move into Orange County. We control that, that territory. And I believe now, and now the owners could vote on anything, you know, they could, they could change their mind tomorrow. But I believe the Grizzlies, that's the nationals within their perimeter. So you could say, you know, you know, if you're going to try to move the grizzlies to Nashville, who did the brawn? That's right. I remember that. So, you know, seriously, if you, please correct me if I'm wrong, Las Vegas, Seattle, Nashville and Austin would probably be the most attractive cities. Jackson, do you think I'm wrong? We can talk Kansas City, Louisville. I don't think Kansas City and Louisville are upgrades on Portland. I agree. Listen, it's, it would be tremendously unfortunate if the trailblazers weren't important. It's a very passionate and unique fan base. I get the revenue challenges, but it would be a shame. All right. So we'll just monitor that and keep an eye on that. I will say it was interesting. You know, when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl in February, it was very much taken note, both in Seattle and in Portland, that when Jodi Allen, his sister, who would become the head of the estate, she became the governor of both teams. She didn't think or she didn't reference her late brother when she took the trophy. And I would never have thought about it, but people felt a certain way about it. In other words, she doesn't have that connection. And so the concept here is that, you know, Paul Allen loved the Blazers, you know, loved having them in Portland. He probably would have preferred to own the Sonics because he's from Seattle, based in Seattle, but after he bought the Blazers, like invested in them immensely, made sure that they always had everything. They were one of the best taking care of teams and that the concept is that, you know, that he would never have stood for the team being sold as somebody would move them or whatever. Well, and just the way that they're being run now, the way that they're being operated, it's polar opposite to the way that he ran things. It sure is. It doesn't like, look, I was just in Vegas at Summer League. And the outlet, I mean, we, the NBA is operates in a world of excess. We at ESPN certainly do not go hungry. I'm not casting a stone from a glass house. Some of the expenditures that are going on at Summer League for these teams are a little, are a little wild, McMahon. These teams are spending a million dollars each on some of these Summer League operations. And apparently the most interesting thing happening is X teammates, you know, throw them punches at each other. More hoop collective podcast after this. So I'll tell you what though, I was thinking about this. Now I know why BondTemp's avoided the Salt Lake City Summary where the Hawks were, right? He knew I was going to be there and he was right. Cause it's on site next time I see BondTemp's why I'm just, you know, bad, bad blood X teammates. I mean, it's a good way to get some attention. So I might as well go punch him in the face. Let me think about that. So I, I would pick you in that fight. But I have seen evidence of BondTemp's fighting from one for you. There is a, a YouTube video that I believe still float around the interwebs. Oh my God. Don't say it. Of a college freshman, BondTemp's with, I think it was I'm a cross-homing boxing gloves. And he does one crazy spin backhand thing that I, I, he did win the future about the technique. We should note that he did win the fight. Yeah. But he was fighting a guy who's not tall enough to referee an NBA. Yeah. Jackson, who would win between BondTemp's and McMahon? I got McMahon. I think it goes more than one round though. BondTemp's a little, I think BondTemp's would be scrappy enough to keep it going. It go longer than the McGregor fight. Hey, one thing we know about BondTemp, so you can take a punch. All right. I'm not here to defend himself. So I'll just leave it at that. All right. So before we get to the, the non-Lebron information, there, the NBA has, wouldn't say they have announced it, but they have acknowledged McMahon that they are investigating the Gary Trent contract that we talked about earlier this week. The contract went official. It is four years, 64 million, all 64 million guaranteed. Every penny. And so by the way, that is, in addition to the $16 million a year, there weren't that many four plus year guaranteed contracts given out this summer. And they were given out to people like Donovan Mitchell, Victor Wembenyama, Austin Reeves. I mean, the Lakers gave out a couple, Quentin Grimes and Mamou. But yeah, no, it's a short list. Are you sin? Yeah, it's a pretty short list. It's, it's not, it's a little bit, it's a little unusual for a role player. But you know, you're right. There was a couple. It's certainly is unusual for a role player to come off the worst year of his career. So that's what the issue is. Is that so I heard Rich Paul, he was on his podcast with Kendra Perkins. And he referenced, you know, he's the agent of Gary Trent. He referenced Quentin Grimes. Quentin Grimes got four years and 60 million from the Lakers coming over from the 76ers and, you know, as a comparable contract to, to Gary Trent. That's certainly something you could say you could, you could present as a defense to the league. Gary Trent had like you said, like one of the worst years of his career. And the difference is is that the Lakers didn't pay, you know, Quentin Grimes, you know, below market money, the previous two years. Right. Grimes was in on a minimum on their roster. Grimes was playing pretty well for the Philadelphia 76ers last year and a half. And I'll just say this that whatever happened last summer, the Bucks had sort of lost their moral, not moral, but they had lost their North Star. I think a little bit last summer, McMahon like. Well, he's now who's now the South Beach star. Right. You're exactly right. They wave and stretch. I mean, let's just say it. They were, they were desperately scrambling. And they were more good thing left and right. Yeah, to try. They were flailing to try to keep you on us around. So they, they wave and stretch. Yeah. Dame and put $20 million a year, whatever it is, $17 million a year on their books for five years. I think it's 22 a year. Oh my God. Yeah. They sign Miles Turner to an overpay, which is a double air. Yeah. You know, they can't get rid of the, the, the, the number on the books for Dame. And it's next to impossible to move Turner right now, if they had to, at least to get off the money. And so I don't know the idea here would be that there would have been some circumvention. There was a quid pro quo. Well, wink, wink, what have you? And let's be honest, that would have happened last summer. wink, wink deals happen in the NBA. This is a, what was being investigated here? Is essentially what Joe Smith was busted for? You've seen the Joe Smith thing talked about a lot in reference to Kauai. This is, this is much more comparable to what happened with Joe Smith. When you sign, if you're out of money and you, and you can't sign anybody, and you could always sign the minimum contracts, you know, how do you get good talent? That's where the, the Timberwolves were in 2000, they had Garnet on the roster. They were trying to like crazy to get more money. And so they created a, it wasn't just a wink, wink, it was a sign sign. Yeah, they came to a, to an agreement that they would pay Joe Smith, you know, a couple of million dollars for a few years. I can't remember if it was the minimum, but was some small amount. They would pay him for three years. They would establish his bird rights. And then they would enable them to pay him more money. And then they would pay him a max contract or whatever it was. Basically, it was like, I will pay you tomorrow for your work today. And they signed an agreement. And the reason that, why they signed the agreement, I don't know. But the reason that the, that it came to light was because the agents who negotiated the deal, the two agents that were partners got into a feud, sued each other. And that document was in the freaking lawsuit, McMahon. And the smoking gun popped up in the lawsuit. And they hit, and they avoided the contract and they hit him for five first round picks, blah, blah, blah. I would, and wink, wink deals happen. And I mean, I, I know of several situations I could compare this to. I am not going to compare it to, but it's not unheard of. It's just that this one is pushing the envelope. This, not, not that I'm saying it is a wink. It is, but listen, it's one thing. If you, if the bucks say, Hey, we want you back, we can only do the minimum. We'll have your bird rights next year and we'll be willing to pay you. to, you know, at or even a little above market value. I think that's one thing. It's a, like this is market value and don't know. There was sign and trade interest. I mean, come on now. - That's one thing we should point out. Shams has said that there was a team that was interested in signing and trading him for a comparable number. And by the way, if that is indeed the case, the lead would probably like to know what that team was and they would ask. - Sure. - And if that is true, that would kind of get the bucks out of trouble. So this contract is just so far out of line in terms of his production and the comps in this market. It doesn't make any sense unless it was, went, winked a year ago. But what's the worst punishment for the bucks? - You have to pay the contract, honestly. Like, do you think, have you heard a lot of other teams complaining? - Well, I had an NBA executive tell me this week in Vegas that the penalty shouldn't be that the contract would get voided, the penalty should, if the bucks are found to have done this and it's a big if and I'm not accusing them, do not want that in my life, this executive said to me, hey, if they are found guilty of this, that the contract should be doubled on their books. (laughing) Not wiped out, should be doubled. - Yeah. - So that'll be investigated and we'll have to see. Okay, now that that's put to bed, we are joined from New York City from the Javits Center, I believe, right Dave McMataman? - That is right. Music just started playing right at the start of the staping, so we're gonna have to roll with it. - No, we hear you fine. I don't know if you can hear us, we hear him fine. - Okay, I can hear you guys, perfect. - So this is fanatic stress. - Or the indecision, yeah, there you go. - So you were there, you flew all the way there from LA and as soon as I heard you doing it, I was like, I can't believe you're going all the way back to New York for this. For LeBron's various appearances of fanatics fest on Thursday, and in you slash we learned what, Dave. - Okay, we did learn his first thoughts on his exit from the Lakers and he took the high road, which is not necessarily surprising, based on his initial tweet after several hours after Rich Paul told Jeannie Busce and Rob Pollink that LeBron would be moving on, but it was still notable. Also notable, I was trying to find a way to get in there. This is a way bigger sprawling event than I think I realized. I go through a curtain, fortunately one of the security guys recognized me from being an NBA fan. So I get spit out right in front of the stage and they're getting ready to start the program. And so I just go try to find the first open seat right next to Jeannie Rennick. Was he happy to see you? - Yeah, I was gonna say I'm sure he was thrilled. - He was friendly, he was friendly. And listen, I think there's some degree Brian, you can speak to this even better than I can. LeBron's a showman. And this was part of the program to continue to hype up the last major basketball decision of his career. And there have already been two events on Thursday. There's a third one on Thursday, a time 100 Dallas, and there's the fourth event Friday where he has a live taping of the shop with Novak Yokevich as the special guest. I don't anticipate us learning his decision on even this. - Would it be great if he was explaining it to the Joker? Like, what if Joker Vich tries to talk him into playing with Yokevich, his buddy? - That would be fun, yeah. And guess what, if that happens, people like myself will be writing and tweeting and going on television and podcast, talk about it, which again, feel like it's part of the apparatus this week. - Well, yeah, if it doesn't happen, you'll still be talking about it. And we're still gonna need it. Like, in the age of day, we'll be led with LeBron until LeBron actually for several days after he makes his decision, probably. - Yeah, how about Dave? How about he was like, well, this is my third gradancy. I was like, whoa, Mr. James, it's your fourth buddy. We felt all of them. And this one's gone on longer than the other three put together. I just, not that we're getting tired of waiting here. - He did correct the record in his second appearance. - Okay. - He got his counting right. - He got his bridge climb. - And he got it up to number four. So, yeah, I mean, listen, that this is a legitimate process to some degree, of course, because all the factors he asked away, trying to land the plane correctly of what's been a Hall of Fame career. It's not a top three or two or one best career in NBA history. Family, style of play, what coast he wants to live on, what teammates he can fit with, what business opportunities you can have in that market, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But Ryan, as you have kind of reported on over the last week or so, and it is my gut instinct, if he's not 100% where he's going yet, he's got to be darn close to 99% at this point. - Yeah, I think you leave the door open to see if things change. But that's one of the things is that in the past day, teams that wanted LeBron did moves to sort of till the earth seed the ground to try to get him there. And that's not happening this time. I mean, the Sixers worked trade for Jalen Brown no matter what. It wasn't like they did that to get LeBron. And now the teams are kind of like, well, we might make some changes to our roster after you have to say you would come. And we'd appreciate you'd say you'd come. So we have time to do that because options are more limited, but that's one of the things that I was hoping to hear from him today, and not just me day, but the other teams, they wanted to hear what his priorities were, because like, for example, as you reported on and talked about throughout the season, this last year playing with Luca and Austin Reeves, LeBron became a third option. And he had to generate often sometimes by just outrunning people up and down the court. And he had to stand on the side. He'd never played that way before. So, you know, I don't know how much of that contributed to him leaving the Lakers, but, you know, it had to be on the decision pie. So does he want to go to need to cleave him, for example, where it's, you know, I know that James Tartin, Donut and Mitchell are not the same as Reeves and Donchurch, but it's comparable and play the same style. Does he, you know, that would be the case in Philadelphia. Like, what's his, you know, that's the thing that, you know, we don't know. I have no doubt he would fit anywhere. He can play all five positions, even now. I have no doubt he can play different ways, but what does he want to do? That day, if I think is what teams are interested in finding out. - And he didn't give clues to that. Other than the fact that he popped out his chest a little bit when he asked or answered a fans question about his free agency decision and basically said, I know all the ins and outs of basketball. I'm going to fit in, but I'm also going to pour into whatever teammates I play with and I'm a natural born leader. And again, maybe that, I mean, maybe I'm just sifting through the comments to try to figure out the laker exit because that's part of my job. But maybe that was hinting at some of the reasoning left beyond his taking the high road comments that he started off with. - Well, you mentioned earlier landing the plane. You've been working. Did you hear about Pat Riley's comments today at Yannis's press conference? - I actually have not. I'd love to hear it. - So Pat Riley made sure he was on stage for Yannis's arrival. And they did a big press conference today. They didn't just do it in the media room where there's the constant buzz. Any interview you ever see in the heat's interview room, you just listen, you hear a buzz in the background. It's a little-- - I see if you are right. - Totally been there for 20 years. I would know that buzz in my sleep. They were out in the court. And Pat Riley said, "We landed one plane. Now we gotta land the other." And I don't think he was talking about contagious football. - Bradley Bill. - Well, Pope. I think they landed flight seven today. That's Yannis's new number. And I think they'd like to put number six back into circulation. - Did Yannis count up to five, six, seven and Greek? We learned that. - That would have been nice. That would have been cool. It would have been good for content. But Riley came out and let it be known. Like, we're not done, we want him. And that's a little pitch to the Braun. He knows the Braun's a showman. And that's Riley's a showman as well. Kenny Acats in trying to do his little recruiting pitch when he got a microphone in front of him in Vegas. Apparently Tyrie's Halbert in trying to do a little recruiting pitch. And that didn't last very long. We want to get a couple laughing emojis in response. And that was, yeah, he was rebuffed in Tyrie's, I mean, that was a notable moment, right? Tyrie said that even before LeBron informed the Lakers that he would be leaving and moving on, Tyrie's made a play for him, was returned to laughing emojis. I do think that helps me try to answer the other question that I've been really curious about. Rich Paul told me that 27 teams have, he's been in contact with or they've contacted him about LeBron. And we know the Lakers aren't, I don't know if the Lakers count. That's what I said, because the Lakers did like want to meet with them. Right. So they say did. So, so let's say the Lakers still count. So what are the three teams that didn't? Indiana, I was like, I don't know if that would be one, but I guess Indiana is. Do we think Memphis did? We got a great air. So I have to believe that I should find a find out of Boston. Did I think Boston would rank 30th on his list? I really honestly do. He hates Boston. I wonder if OKC did. I wonder if the spurs did. I don't know. Am I understanding there was. some sort of spurs dialogue. I don't know whether it was pitching, but it was some sort of dialogue. There's a premium clutch client on the team. They probably did, which in the case of San Antonio. And the spurs clearly do have that. Yeah, I would say so. And by the way, the thunder might do it just because they would be like, well, the spurs are probably going to reach out because of Fox, we should reach out too. I wouldn't be surprised if they did. If nothing else than to play defense, but I would guess Memphis might not have and I don't know, I don't know. Boston would have to, right? They would have to. You'd think, right? I think that Boston would rank 30 at Dave. Do you agree? I do agree. Last year LeBron came back. Yeah, the Saadika that caused him to miss time. And the Lakers' lone trip to Boston was in that window before he was playing back-to-backs, and he missed the game. He was not sad about missing. I do not think he enjoys. He's had some great games at Boston. I don't. Yeah, yeah. One interesting thing that he said, and I forget the exact context, but he mentioned something about it. He's going to decide where he's going to spend the last few, or two, or one year of his career. That made Dave so hard to go further, Gray. Oh, yeah. Well, Brian, what did you talk to me, Brian, which was, I thought, was a very astute observation. Well, one thing that I noticed, McMahon, as I was watching this today, was that LeBron's beard, which was very gray on the golf course last week, was very dark today. Yeah. Well kept, and nice and dark, which means that this isn't going to be one year. He didn't bring up, especially three years today. That seems like a lot, but I could very well see it being two years, and part of that is the success he's had joining new teams where the example that he's had is year two, he went on the championship. Dave, look, I'm just going to say I have no insight. I have no information. You know that I'm from Cleveland. You know my ties there. The more I've looked at this and the more I've had conversations, the more Miami makes sense to me. And now when I hear him thinking about a couple of years, it makes even more sense to me. Why? Why Miami? Because I think that's where he goes and fits. He can go there and have the ball. He also can go there and be protected on defense. I can clean when he can be protected on defense for sure, but he wouldn't have the ball. I mean, I want to be clear. He can play with anybody. You think I don't think he can play with anybody. He can do anything, but like I don't see him playing with Donovan and Harden as being a clean fit. Of course, he can do it. I just don't see that clean fit. In Miami, I see the fit in Miami makes more sense to me. And I've come to that as I've watched his unfold for the last three weeks and had a bunch of conversations. And I'm not trying to cause any problems. I'm not trying to report anything. I'm just telling you the my perception. I do think the points suddenly are up to him, but I do think the point about the ball in his hands. That is the undisputed basketball fit in terms of the way we've seen him enjoy playing basketball his entire career. And there's a major need for it. Obviously, Janice has expanded his game, playing some points. Sorry, but that fell as I've got a call from our esteemed producer Brian Franey. I need to get my butt out on the 11th and 35th to do sports center hit, but I appreciate joining and talk to you soon. All right. Thanks to Mick Maneman. Mick Man. What do you think of all that? Well, the only point I would make about the fit in Miami is what's the one thing if LeBron's going to have the ball in his hands that he most needs around him shooting. And that's the one biggest flaw in that Miami roster. Now they've gotten some, you know, Tim Hardaway, Fonteco, like they've got some shooting. But playing with Bam at a bio and Janice, there's going to be some, I think Janice honestly needs to have the ball in his hands as well. I think there will be some fit things that would have to be figured out there. Those are absolutely reasonable points. I don't dispute any of that. You would have to build them out, but that's why I'm reacting to him thinking about playing multiple years. Like that would be an acknowledgement that, you know, I'm not necessarily done. And maybe this is something that is a two-year project. Also, you'd be wagering on Pat Riley and the Ellisburg figure out how to build out the team, you know. And that's. Yeah, but regardless though, he'd be playing with two, I'm like non-shooters is strong for Bam, but two guys who you don't fear as primary shooters. Because like the figuring out is like those two guys, Bam at a bio and Janice are going to be in the starting lineup and on the floor for the vast majority of minutes that they're especially gonna play off time. So I just, you know, I do think there would be some pretty significant fit challenges with Miami as well. He would just be very clearly, you know, second or one B on the pecking order in terms of having the ball in his hands. Where I, he was just saying about Cleveland. I just don't think it would be as strong. Like, Luca was the very clear number one and then they got to a point where it was defined one, two, three. I'm not sure it would be that clearly defined if he's playing with Don of the Mitchell and especially James Harden. What do you think if he chose Miami, do you think that they would have cookies for him at his when he arrived? Do you know the cookie thing, right? I don't know the cookie thing. I guess I guess this will be our so-fi. Get your money right. Throw a throwback of the week. So you don't, you're not aware of the story about how Pat Riley pulled the cookies? No. Well, first off, the interesting thing about this is that when LeBron came to Miami, so the night of the decision, one of the people that actually, the people who kind of knew first were the pilots. They actually had two planes at the, I don't know, I assume it was a Westchester county airport in New York. They had two planes and the pilots had to know where to fly the plane. So the pilots actually knew he was going to Miami because they said, hey, we're going to Miami. So they were, they remember the night after the decision was when they had that big shin dig down there. Yeah. Where they were. They all, which by the way, you have to admit, it was pretty, it gets remembered not five, not six, not seven. But it was pretty bad-ass. The stage. It was the show. Yeah. As far as introductory press conferences goes, definitely the most memorable I've ever seen. Absolutely. It was amazing. I mean, it was arrogant and regretful, but in the moment, incredible, incredible. So anyway, they get in the planes. For some reason, they needed two planes. They had nest so many people. They fly down. And the side story on that is that they're, they're like sort of reading Twitter and they're seeing that the decision is being destroyed. And that was in the infant days of Twitter. It wasn't like you's ubiquitous for like the, the way it would become later on. But like, let's just say that the mood from what was described to me was somber. Despite that flying down to Miami, they're new places and whatever, like it was somber. And like, there was even this thought like, oh my gosh, did we make a mistake? And then they landed in Miami and the letter came out. The comic song's font. Not that I think that they would have changed their mind, but whatever, you know, this was way it was described to me by somebody involved years later. And you know, maybe LeBron would say, you're dead wrong. I mean, I'm not trying to get inside his head. But when the letter came out, the bridges were burned. The miracles that they're able to reconstruct the bridge three years later. And potentially again, yet again, eight years later will be amazing. But the funny thing is is that they didn't know what to bring to the airport because the heat, like they were, they were confident, but they like, I'm telling you, like this is the thing that, as I'm talking to teams, like, I remember Dan Gilbert, you know, saying to me one time, he's like, we didn't know LeBron was coming back until after he announced it. Like the Lakers had some heads up, but like it was like the Lakers had 12 hour notice he was signing there. Like LeBron is going to say it and then inform the team or very close to it. LeBron wants to make a splash when he makes it, when he changes teams, he wants the announcement. And that's what, that's what this whole thing is about right now. LeBron wants to make a splash. Okay. And so like, but yet like, it was a viral thing on Thursday that Steve Kerr, like, you know, I don't know if he was in Vegas or California, wherever he was and he lives in San Diego in the off season. But you know, somebody walked, walked up to him in his car and he said, yeah, we got LeBron and like, they have somebody saying, hey, we got to get LeBron. He's like, oh, we got him. Yeah. Okay. People were like, the warriors have like, yeah, that's how it would be announced. Steve Kerr yelling out the side of his car. Anyway, so they, he didn't have anything really prepared. At least at that night, so Eric Spolstra brought a plate of cookies. He didn't know what else to like, you know, what do you, what do you bring to your superstar when you have like two hours notice you're going to see him at the airport? I'm surprised the heat of all like, I thought cookies might be banned from their facilities. Well, you've now got the other half of the story. So when the heat would fly, They, the catering, you know, everything in Miami is different, McMahon, like you know this. The heat, the culture, baby. Jackson's asking about kind of cookies. Apparently it was somebody's homemade cookies, like there was whoever took care of the catering for the plane, made these homemade cookies, or there were these special cookies for LeBron. LeBron love these cookies. Well, the heat are fanatical about weight. I mean, they like typically players are weighed two or three times during the season, like once at the beginning, once at the end, the heat players are weighed like every day. I remember Shane Badiye, who told me once, if you have a big lunch, they know it, which is part of the reason that one of the most fascinating stories of LeBron's career was that he gained like seven pounds during a game, last one where I'm just not sure about the science behind that. Go on. Okay, so I don't know what to say about it. Mike Miller told me the story that LeBron, because in Miami, they weigh these guys all the time and LeBron started weighing himself, and I know it doesn't make sense, McMahon, I'm not, I'm not saying that it actually, I don't have to tell you, all I know is this. Mike Miller told me that LeBron weighed himself before, I guess he used to weigh himself before and after every game when he was in Miami. Maybe he still does, I don't know. And somehow he weighed like 261 before the game and 268 after the game or something like that. Maybe put both feet on the scale the second time, McMahon. I am not denying anything you could just say here. You could say that he was holding a basket, but what do you want me to say? Okay? He was choosing, they were heavier, but I said, Mike Miller told me this story and I was like, it cannot be true. I asked Mike, man, see us, Mike, did LeBron have a game, was apparently during the conference files? This is LeBron's long time personal trainer, I guess would be the, I said Mike, did LeBron really gain seven pounds during a game? He goes, yes, it was a playoff game. I still didn't believe it. So then I went and asked LeBron and LeBron said, yes, I, it was very strange, I don't know to make it, but I don't know whether I had, I drank a lot of, I gave it a rate or. Got seven pounds. McMahon, what do you want me to say? Let's get back to the cookie. The trainer, I asked LeBron. I hear you. Anyway, the point is, the point is that the heat were, were an R fanatical about all of that stuff. Look, the point about all of this is, is that the heat, well, very, very fanatical about food and, and weight and stuff like that. And so at some point, near, it was either the last year of LeBron's time there, whatever, Riley ordered the cookies off the plate. Oh. And so LeBron, like they're taking their flight and LeBron goes to the, because what they typically do, they put, in the overhead bins, they fill the overhead bins with like, I mean, there's food and stuff, but they also fill the overhead bins with like gum and fruit and snacks, which is, you know, the overhead bins like I line for an NBA player, they just, and LeBron went to go get his cookies and the cookies had been banned by Riley from the plane. Which, you know, angered LeBron and, you know, some people have been like, that's why he left. That's obviously not why he left. But the point is that Pat Riley was like, he, so my, so Riley makes this joke today about land the plane. I'm thinking like, if LeBron comes back to Miami, they have got to have a cookie bar. By the way, like, as if LeBron was ever not in optimal shape, like those cookies were causing him to be one, two MVP's, what's the four finals? But look, this is how Riley rolls, you know, and Riley is probably at or below his playing weight in his mid 70s. Now, I think he's in his 80s now, isn't he? Is he his 80s? Believe so. Well, anyway, so Jackson wants to know what kind of cookies Jackson, I don't know, let me Google it, but I was, that would be like a good way to, like, sort of just, just restart the chocolate chip cookies. It says Jackson. And he must have been a little bit of a recipe. Mario Chalmers told the story on a podcast. That's where it came from. So if Mario told her to can't be wrong, absolutely not 81 Pat Riley is Jackson says, you know, I'll throw, I know LeBron doesn't eat cookies anymore, I mean, he's, you know, he's pretty fanatical about everything. So look, maybe he signs in Philly, maybe he signs in Golden State, maybe he goes back to Cleveland. Are you counting out the Tim Bulls without you're doing? I'm not counting out anybody. I don't have, you know, it's not a comfortable thing to say that you don't know in our jobs, but it's, it's the responsible thing. And when I, when I played golf, I had the wonderful, um, the event earlier this week with Scott Morrison's foundation to the max. And, um, one of the teams head coaches who's one of the teams recruiting LeBron's head coach played in front of me. And one of the teams general managers who's recruiting LeBron played behind me. And at various times during the day, I was with each of them and sometimes they're with each other. And they, they didn't know that they were asking me the next day I was at a hotel. Another one of the head coaches who was recruiting LeBron, he asks me. And then I see another, um, with a team president for one of them, it's like, what do you think? I'm like, I don't know, man, I wish I could tell you and he's like, I think he's going to Cleveland. I'm like, what do you want me to say? Like, like, people, I assume at some level, maybe the ownership level that there has been some conversations, you know, that maybe like, that maybe there is a very few set of people that know that it's moving in one direction or another. Do you think LeBron has made his decision and is now just plotting out, announced knowing LeBron like I know him and I'm certainly not in his circle and I'm certainly not saying that I'm have special insight, but knowing his former high school teammate, yeah, knowing his psychology, the high school team was three and 17 when I was a senior, um, knowing his psychology, I would suspect that he is known for some time, the direction he's heading. But obviously the decision is not finalized yet. I mean, that's what I could be wrong. I could be wrong with man, he could announce and say that he came to it to it the night before. Yeah. Well, and maybe the decision is finalized and maybe he just want like, again, like he is a showman. And I think part of this is he wants to be very calculated on when, where and how he releases this information to the world and he's got the entire league kind of, you know, he's got the attention to the entire league. There's still a few free agency things like, you know, Peyton Watson and Benedict Mathur and there's some restricted free agents out there. Like for the most part, the business of the league is done, not done, but, you know, it's a very slow time in the year as far as as far as players changing teams, like there's extension business to go on, right, right, and that could lead to things. But in terms of player movement, we're probably in the high 90% of player movement. Yeah. It's a very slow time. And this is, it's stretch, this is further than it's ever stretched in terms of the time of July. McMahon, it's, it's on the verge of being longer than all three, put to all three free agencies put together. So in, I believe July 9th, July 8th, July 9th and July 1st were the three times he traded. So that's 17 days difference is on all three previous occasions, because you had to have max cap space or, you know, the first time in Miami, at least close to max cap space to be able to land him. He did hold up business around the league. That's not the case here. He's not holding up business. True. I'm just saying that like what I believe one was July 8th, one was July 9th and one was July 1st. That's 17. I'll call it 18 days and we're July 16th. Yeah. So. All right. Thank you to Dave McMahon. Thank you to all of our producers on here Tucker, Mark Jackson at all. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching the hoop collective. Will we get until Monday? I guess Tuesday for our next podcast or will we have to emergency pod before then? Guess we'll wait and find out. World Cup finals on Sunday. I think LeBron is planning on being there. Who's playing? Argentina and Spain. Who are you rooting for? I was rooting for England. But I was mesmerized by Messi and so you know, they were they were correctly beat the correct team. One. Argentina. So I don't have a dog in the fight, but LeBron, I believe, is planning on being there. So we'll see if he does it after that. All right. We'll wait. I'm Pensanitos. Ios Migos.