Antaresia Pythons with Ben Nickelson

(upbeat music) - Hello everybody, welcome to episode 603. (upbeat music) - No, no, no, no. - We talked about you. - No, no, no. - We're in MPR, we're dipping into Anturgis. Don't you change the name of the show? - What would we be? - APR? - No. - That sounds like an insurance agency. - That's perfect for you. - MPR, we already get mixed up for NPR so far. - I was like, let's not. - ARP, we'll be, yeah, let's not. - I don't, well, get in there. - Australian reptile podcast. - Oh my God, yeah. - Yeah, so in this episode, we have Ben Nicholson coming back round two and we're gonna be talking about his antiregia and like I said, we have a couple carpet things that we're gonna throw in there for sure. - I mean, what we have to. - We have to. - We have a little sprinkling of carpet python to make everybody happy. - The three of us are exhausted, so bear with us. - We're dying. - It's been a long day. - Still be dying on air, mentally, physically dying. - Yep, we're still here and we're gonna. - Push through it and then we could. - Because we never ends, the torture never stops. They will stop when I'm dead. - Yeah. - So, yeah, no kidding. - I don't know. - So it's kind of crazy. I guess maybe next week we should talk olives. - Right. - Olive pythons? - Yeah, because we did-- - Just olives. - We did meralia, then we did aspeditis. Now we're doing antiregia. What's left, Lassus? - There's so many other types of python left. - No, no, no, no, no. - The Lailia. - I thought, like, you know, it's like, the old python, like, we were like, you're like, you're nagging, Lassus. Like, no, there's something, there's something, there's something shit. It's like, you're like, and done. Like, that's it. - I said it, gone. (laughing) - I said it's it. - I said we're finished. All right, god. - I think we're gonna be like, giddy school girls in this episode. - Yeah, let's get rid of this entire. - It's already bad. - We're two minutes in. It's already bad. - Two minutes in. - I mean, the problem is that it's doing an entire show, but Alipaythons, you know me, I'm gonna be like, they're green. - So it's funny when I was driving home and I was like, maybe we should do an olive python show. We haven't done that in a while. I was like, oh, Owen's bred them many times. He should be able to, and I said, scratch that. - Yeah. (laughing) - I love how you hear me in your head now. - Yeah, I was like, oh, and so how do you breed pythons or alipaythons? Well, it starts at the beginning. There's a male alipaython. - And there's a female alipaython. - They love each other very much. - Yes. - They support each other. - And I locked them in a box. - A woman of box and said, you can't come out and tell her, maybe she's like, "I can't come out and tell her eggs." And then they kind of agree or disagree. - Right. They usually agree with you though, right? - And if they don't do it, I turn the temperatures down slowly. (laughing) - Before it was good, it's more torture than it is like, you know, science. I don't give the food I turned down the temperatures and I lock you in with her. She has a bad time, the whole time. - Immediately why I said, no, we can't do that. (laughing) - I'm glad you could see it. - Yes, yes, yes. - We look out for each other. - Yeah, man. - So how was the real quick before we get back on the show, any good? What was the feel? - Hammer. - Hammer? - Hammer was, - Was that last weekend or was it two weekends ago? Two weekends ago. - Was it? - Yeah. - It was good. - I mean, - We talk about it on the last show. - I think we did. - We did? - No, no, no. (laughing) - We can't just jump through it. - I mean, it was a good show. I saw some people, saw some things. I did some more wholesaling than I did. Actually, like sales sales, which was good, but. - Okay. - One of my guys that I don't remember my wholesale through came and took all my false water cover babies. So now I'm like, okay, I have to introduce them because I'm done with false water cover, which is why I have a next show in April. I gotta come down to see you and grab a bunch of shit to put on the table 'cause I got nothing. So I gotta keep that going 'cause normally I would kind of hold stuff back to make sure I had stuff to go to the next show. But now I think I've done more of the, it's okay to sell it. - Ah, kind of a thing. - And it's okay to sell it for a lower price than what you were hoping. Because I think I sold two false water covers during the day at the normal price. And then there were about seven left. No, I'm sorry, there were about five left that I sold at the wholesale price. And I'm out of false water cover, but. You sell two at high price, two at a little bit of a lower, or five at a little bit of a lower price. You still come out with a good, you still feel the freezer, okay? - Sure. - So, that's what it was. - Okay. - But yeah, now I'm sitting here. All this week I was checking on my poppin' carpet python because I was hoping that I could do a victory lap at the show. I was gonna do a victory lap on the show. I was gonna bring her and the eggs. I was gonna be like, look, look at her. - It'll be like the Lion King. - No, no, no, no. - Just like hold her up the whole time. As people are talking, I just slowly raise her up. Like, yeah, meanwhile she's pissed as shit as all right. But I got the dates wrong. Like I thought she was due today. She's due next week. She's due the 12th. So, we will continue this. So we were at like red alert. We will continue at red alert for another week. - So. - But if it was a coastal carpet, you would know. - She would have laid her eggs by now. - You, you was a coastal carpet. - She was gonna lay. - They'd never go to 60. If it was coastal carpet, eggs would be on the ground and she'd been eaten or rat by now. This bitch is like, no. - I think she's just trying to hold out. - She knows, she's like, no she's. - She knows she's gonna fail the whole poppin' carpet community. - She's the one, she's the key. The second that happens, it all falls apart. - So, all I need is a one baby out of that egg. - I guess at that point, well, you're already bred more carpets than I did. So. (laughing) - Yeah, I'm just gonna say it. - I'm sorry. - I'm sorry, but it's horribly true. - Yeah. - So, it is, it's not just true. - Horribly true. - So. - Yeah. - Well, you bred one more than me. - No, then we bred the same. - No, wait a minute, hold on. We got this one. - Hold on, we bred jungle. We bred jungles. - Jungles? - Yeah. - Coastals. - I've, so now. - Poplins. - I bred, - I bred darwins. - I bred darwins. - Real darwins or cross? - Not a real darwin to a cross darwin. - That's a cross, I've done that too. - I will then, but then, okay, so crosses. I've done bred lie. I've done Brisbane's. - So, wait, you're counting coastal twice? - It's, what are we doing here? - Well, then you can't, you can't double up them into a coastal. - Then you can't count coastals. If it's chain eye, you can't count it twice. If it's split, then you can't count it. - Okay, then it's a northern jungle. - Okay, fine. - Northern jungle. - Okay. - You mean northern coastal? - No, I'm saying I bred northern coastal. - Yes. - I bred northern and southern coastals. - Okay. - So, yeah, I get the count of twice. Yeah, I get the count coastal twice. - That's how it's called. - I call bullshit. You're going by 2024 standards. I'm going back to 2019 when we were waiting on. (laughing) Before the book. - No, no, no. We have to go by the normal nobiclet. - Damn it. - Hurry, approved nobicleture. - All right, so you're one ahead of me. - Yes. - If this comes out, then you're two ahead of me. - You're ahead of me. - Then I'm adding you, if it's not lapping you. I'm going to get inland diamonds. - I'm rooting for you buddy. But remember. - Yeah, I'm not, it's terrible. (laughing) - You shouldn't. - I could hold a grudge when it comes down and Python give out time. (laughing) - Oh my God, I don't know buddy. - Listen, listen. Listen, I would give these to you, but you're dick. - It's a dick. (laughing) - You embarrassing me in front of everybody. - Fair, fair enough, it's fair. - It's true. (laughing) - She's not wrong. (laughing) - All right. - Well, my fingers are crossed for you. - Yeah. - Next week, hopefully we can take a - Thank you, Lap. - Poppin' Carpet victory lap. - You talk about my journey of breeding popplin' carpets. You know now that I'm a poppin' carpet breeder. - Don't count those eggs before their hatch, buddy. (laughing) - You're the guy that says, listen to it, shed. - Listen, listen. - Listen, listen. - You know I never do. You know I never do. - I know you know. - Leading all the way up to the white lip, like I had ultrasound images of the eggs and I'm like, I'm not sure yet. - I'm like, what? - I'm like, what? (laughing) - No one's sure. - What do you think there's big round things on her? - I don't know yet, could be a lot of things. Could be eggs, Owen. - No wonder you don't believe in Bigfoot. - Not. (laughing) Welcome back. - That's a completely different thing. You know, there you were down. It has like a shield for you. - I did, it's not a lot. - You're saying he was a human shield. This is not a hard thing to go through. - I had to take the shields right now. - Damn. - Yeah. - Wow. - Do you mean Bigfoot's not real? - Look, see, it broke his poor heart. (laughing) - Oh, this is hard. - What? I'm tearing about this. What else is not real? What is going on? - This reality is not right. - Too fairy was just your dad. I'm like, dammit. - I'm sorry. - Stop ruining my job. - Sorry. We'll talk about Santa Claus later. - Oh, it's down. - Anyway. - We've done that. Then, how are you? - Welcome back. - How you doing then? - Pretty good. How about you guys? - Oh, you know. - You say mold same old. - Yeah. - Spiraling to madness. - Yes. - So, but how's your season going? Are you kind of like cooking with gas or taking these and kind of, I'm still going to be like, trying to figure out where my season is. I'm for sure getting children's pythons. They were like I didn't see any other action going on so it was like I'll put the children's pythons together because they seemed to always work and they did. I have my knees in a different male this year though so okay and just worked right off the bat put them in they immediately locked and then I'm also doing wheat belt stumpsons I think they're going to go. They were cuddling still today. I thought the deed was done but they still are kind of working together so we'll see how that's going and then I may get a pop one carpet clutch repeat pairing that I did last year that produced some pretty sweet granites and then I have a inland pairing it's kind of early to tell what's going on with them but they were they were cuddled up today so cool yeah. I know we're going to talk antiregia but I was curious with the inlands do you approach them from the from a spring are you spring breeding them or are you well last year was my first year attempting and I just put them together like in October and just left them together the whole time and I dropped them I think 63 was the lowest I recorded it probably got cooler that I think my my probe was on the warm end and I always had you know some sort of eat on the thermostat so it probably got a little bit cooler but this year I know they got into the upper fifties if not a little bit lower and last year I didn't really see any action until about this time until you know February march so I yeah I wasn't expecting to see anything until about now and they were they were cuddled up today I'm not sure if there was a lock under the heat but yeah they they might have been okay cool yeah I didn't put mine together yet I'm hoping I don't know man my season's kind of going weird I thought it was going good now I'm kind of the same boat as you like I don't know I thought everything was cool but they do have to be together to breed so you do have to do that so that that's step one I listen to your show I mean I'm just telling you one snake girl yeah boy snake with girls naked it doesn't work the other way so but I think now is the weird time where it's like you see other people might be a little bit further along than you so you start like second guessing yeah whether you should be doing stuff and also you saw a ton of locks earlier and you're like cool and then it kind of peed us off like I have a pair of coals that were together or have been together and they were locking like crazy and the female it doesn't seem like she's thick enough yet and I'm like all right so I kept the male in there and they've been kind of ignoring each other but then they were locked up yesterday so it's weird and it's also I think this is the time when people pull a male because they think they totally got it and then the females just like yeah so keep definitely keep going with what you do and this is not gonna stop I'm not just saying that to you there are other people that are listening Eric it's not all about you I thought you were giving me motivational speech no I mean no listen if you need motivation I will come give you motivation I'll come put the pit I'll pair them I'll be over to pair later yeah right on I'll do so let's talk about your interasia I think you were talking about children's pythons and you know you're talking about the pairing and I think this is is this the male that you used for yes what's going on with this thing so this came from Todd case and their ghost line is what he calls them children's pythons they kind of the pattern kind of blurs out and it it changes you know they fire up and down and sometimes they look almost completely patternless and sometimes the pattern is more more visible and they both have pretty good I have a pair they both have pretty good red color at times too this I think the male is a little bit more orange in the females a little bit more red gotcha okay yeah I just saw that and was like wow that's really a show it is very cool yeah yeah children's you know because it's kind of like a lot of times they seem I don't know kind of brown you know like they're brown snake you know yeah yeah and uh but um yeah I don't know cool so you're breeding this one this year and it is it is it a gene or is it just like a line bread thing um you know I'm not really sure um I think it's more of a line bread thing I haven't been able to find a whole lot of information about it um but the reason I'm doing this pairing actually the female that I'm using is weird looking and has produced a weird bit there light babies and dark babies normal looking babies and light babies um so I'm just trying to figure out you know if I use a different male do I get different results is that the pair yes okay how do you know how much your adult sway like how bigger your guys um the female is probably 250 280 grams um the male I have no idea he's tiny he's just small yeah he's two feet maybe okay yeah he could see me tiny little worm in the breeding picture yeah yeah he's he's tiny um but yeah I'm trying to figure out there you know uh Nick has the European T-plus children's pythons and there's a few people here in the United States that have these light colored babies that they're calling T-plus too um and you know they're they're for sure not related not the same thing but yeah I don't know that there's a lot of strong information or at least that I've seen about what is going on with the American stuff okay and I don't know if what I have is the same thing is that or if it's something else because as far as I know mine aren't related um but about half of my babies are real light colored kind of pink with the dark pattern being a little bit purply um and then the others look normal so I'm trying to trying to figure out if there is something different going on gotcha okay um that's cool that's a cool project if you know to um can I send you a picture yeah absolutely yeah yeah let's see would I guess the what the next step would be with that is to even kind of see if there was gene things as to breed it to something outside of the whole like the exact opposite isn't that what Niko he says is like take the weird one and breed it to a like a horribly normal normal like yeah yeah and see that's where I started I had a normal male let's see uh I had a normal male that uh was related I think okay came from the same breeder um here I um sending Eric through Facebook the the picture of last year's pairing gotcha and the offspring um so yeah the the the male that I use last year's dark uh okay normal looking male uh so Todd sent me this other one you know to see if I would get different results I did go back through Todd's feed and I think I found the pictures of his babies hatching and they were light colored too so it could be that it's just they're those are the same thing so maybe I'll get all light colored babies I don't know um so I'll learn something that way too okay um that's cool and then I obviously I'll try the other male with the other female eventually too to see if there's anything different there but this is the pairing you did last year wow yeah what okay same female different male same female different male yeah okay it had females weird yeah you know it you know it it kind of reminds me of Eric what's that the escarpment hmm yeah a little bit yeah it's just that the the the head is like the so there's normal it's not the darker one seems to have that kind of long gated head yeah I have my pair look like the dark one and that's that's pretty much what they are but I'm hoping wait do you see the babies I would like to see the babies yeah I just sent you a whole bunch more pictures and we enjoy seeing babies you know it's I I'm hopeful for my pair every time I kind of pair what do you what do you when you that's cool man Jesus shit all right well that's all right so one of these things is not like the other yeah yeah so one is like the it almost looks like the T plus kind yeah and then the other one looks like you know normal children's yeah I've tried to be very careful not to call them T plus because yeah I don't know what they are but sure I feel your pain with the man is the guy Jay man I totally get it yeah um did you let any go or are you keeping everything you just can see where they go I have everything that I've produced so far right to answer yeah wow that's easy to do with the answer region huh well I mean that is it the baby suck like you know maybe wasn't all it's cracked up to be right but okay let me see what other ones I'll get the other ones as she's yeah I said some more pictures of the female because she she fires up and down and she's just weird looking at different times but like I can't peg I can't never peg what the hell's going on with you but when you do breeders that's an awesome shot because I usually chuck my adults they live in 32s most of the year and then around breeding season I throw them in an empty three-foot cage that I have and they kind of hang out with each other they kind of do whatever but part of me is like I've given you way too much room I should just put you in a 41 so yeah I mean I I use a 41 for mine um I don't know it seems like if they're gonna do it they're gonna do it though doesn't matter yeah and as far as I can tell antiregid would are just gonna do it my wheat belts have been a little bit more finicky than the others but like I have some eastern simpsons that I was trying this year I think they're a little bit too small okay and the youngest of their 23s I think and the male was trying real hard but he wasn't getting any success I love that hurt ice stripes have stayed dark while the rest of her head just like oh my god that is so cool that's wild then yeah very cool yeah and where did she come from uh a guy uh where did I find him these are my these them these are my favorite snake stories because it seems like it was the random table at the snake show and he sold it when I went back 20 minutes later it had magically disappeared and it was dawn forever so well it was online but what's that what's that forum that still exists but is like fauna fauna yeah oh yeah oh that's a great shot oh my god that's so cool yeah unfortunately that was the only one that hatched so don't tell people that you know the picture no I am uh that maybe the last time that I tried maternal I don't know I might try it again but maternal incubation sucks yeah that really that really was disappointing because it is so excited yep yep that's why it sucks but yeah it looks like a beautiful clutch there a bunch of babies are gonna come out yeah so what do you think happened was it what happened you think you know I couldn't really tell they might have dried out but all the eggs look good and I ended up you know a week later maybe I left them in there for a while and I put them in the incubator just hoping something would happen but they were all dead yeah that happened a couple times with me where I totally didn't think about the humidity in the room yeah you know and I had them in itself and it just got dry and it was in that might have been it yeah um it it seemed like there was plenty of humidity I'm almost wondering if it well I don't know it might have been that the humidity was too low so she like you know constricted it and held the tight and they couldn't get enough oxygen would maybe maybe my guess yeah yeah but I don't know cool shot though yeah okay so so that's your children that's that's the only children do you work with oh wait we still have this other one that I forgot the chair it was this little one is this when the that your female was younger or is this one of the babies um that's one of the babies yeah okay yeah and some of them are kind of more orange and some of them are more I don't know what you would call that cup you're like faded coppery pink yeah yeah and I like that the spots are pronounced but the back is kind of really light yeah yeah and whenever they hatch there's two very distinct phenotypes you know the normal looking ones and then the light ones there is a range in the light ones though between like like super light pink and like kind of with a more purpley dark spot so I don't there can't just it can't just be two there has to be and then one in the middle so it's like great now yeah you know I mean you could definitely tell the two apart like this is a normal looking one and this is a but yeah the the brighter colored ones are definitely like there's variation what made you get into anter Asia so you know I had my decade long hiatus um from keeping snakes and uh whenever I was a kid I had a children's python that I bought at a just like a local pet store that I don't think was eating for them and I had it for you know a couple months in the cheap for sale yeah so yeah I tried everything with that whenever I was a kid but I didn't know what to do so that always kind of stuck with me and whenever I was getting back into it was like you know I want something kind of small and easy to to take care of that was that was the first thing I got was the pair of children's pythons so cool yeah that's uh I mean I don't know I was reading one of your posts about the wheat belts and you're saying about how you think that there's such a good pet snake like a first pet snake yeah um maybe you could talk a little bit about that but like you know why why do you feel that way okay so I think like it's probably true of all antiregid it's not just the wheat belts but uh they're small they're without being like too small they are they're basically a miniature carpet python yeah yeah they they once they're eating they are the best eaters that you could get like they're kind of scary um but if I just use a hook tacked train them uh to know when there's not going to be food and they they're the calmest snakes I have to like they won't bite yeah and what's what's the max like large mouse maybe for them yeah like I feed kind of the females getting into breeding season I might give them like a rat pup just a bum just to just to give that last little yeah they don't need it my my my females maybe are bigger than they should be because I've done that a couple times but they they seem happy and healthy yeah and and and I get that idea because just like you said it's big python small package because then you want to set it up in like a uh terrarium yeah you can easily accessible yeah yeah you can do a three foot cage and that'd be a mansion form you know yeah I'm trying to I'm trying to design a cage for my 12 foot dwarf retick right now and that is annoying you shit yeah so this is the opposite problem right like you know you can get a nice little exo and really kind of do it up for uh childrens or something yeah yeah I mean yeah they're just they're small they're compact they everything that's awesome about like a carpet python in a small package yep um and they're just easy to handle you you know if they're pythons you don't have to feed them very often they aren't that dirty no they're just the best pet snake whereas like similar size collubrid you know other than you know the care requirements the feeding in the cleaning is a lot more so yep yeah they're easy I agree it's uh you know I remember the first time I saw antiregia was actually had oens and he had a like giant spider spotting yeah and it amazed me that it was like a tiny python it was they were you know they were way bigger than they ever should have been which is why they came to me broken and I broke them further yeah so they should never have been the size they were did you have did you have a pair I had a pair and they'd never bred for me because they were the size of maybe a three-year-old carpet python like they were never they should have never been the size that they were so yeah but they were smaller than all my carpets so I'm like it's perfect no my carpets were too big and then they were too yeah I kind of remember that one being kind of fat yeah it wasn't like huge but it was they were looking at them now like I have three savouze females that are the size of my that were that are the size of what those granite spots were right so I moved them on after about three years of not breeding them and now I have a pair of children spythons which are children spythons eyes and I am growing going up a pair of Cape York Spottids and the hardest part is to keep you have Cape York Spottids. I have many things I don't tell you. I miss that. I have a pair of Cape York Spottids and the problem is with interregion, like Ben said, is when they're rocking and rolling, it's hard to get them to not eat. Like they're constantly wanting food. So you have to basically like ignore them. Otherwise they'll just eat everything, including your fingers, yeah. Well, it's a meme, man. My children are at least okay. My Spottids are mean, dude. Like it's tiny. Yeah, I think it has to do with it. Like you think about their just their natural history, right? They're in these rocky, outcrop crevices and you know bats are flying by and they're just reaching out and grabbing them and shit, you know. Kind of like rosy bowels, right? They kind of do the same thing. Yeah, the same niche they feel, I guess. It's just so funny because where the Spottids are, right next to them, because the rack is here and then right next to them are the scrubs and it's like, you have this little tiny python that's like, and this scrub by the time you're just watching them. I'm like, that's that better behavior than you. Like that is. Yeah. Is there, so you work with Spottids, Easterns, Westerns and childrens? Yes. Okay. I think that covers everything I have. I have like a striped spotted that Ryan produced. And then I have like a really contrasty, it's a younger one. It's, I think it's, it might darken up a little bit, but it's, it's like really bright white and black. So I think that's what I want to move towards is kind of make miniature ivory jungle carpet pythons. That's cool. Yeah. Here else, Sengia, a couple of pictures of that too. Yeah. I think honestly, I love Moralia and I'll always have them, but if, if I had to choose something it would be an Theresa because you can fit so much in a small area. Yeah. And there's tons of variety just as much as, as carpet pythons and tons of potential that's been untapped as far as selective breeding. I think, I think you could do some real wild stuff, you know, like with contrast with the, the spotted pythons or even color. I think it is a Matt, Matt Turner, I think I was looking at his page and he's working on a high contrast spotted python thing too. And I think he's actually trying to go the yellow route. So to make a little yellow, so that the top one is a children's python that I produced two years ago. Okay. Actually, the one that was in the picture hatching of mom. Okay. So you can see how much different, you know, it hasht out bright pink and it's, it's looking a little bit more like a typical children's python now. Right. And then yeah, that spotted python that, that spotted python is nice. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that came from William, Philip heck did it go ahead? William. Damn, that is a nice. It's just a regular spotted python, right? Yep. Yep. Wow. Yeah. Holy shit. There's a lot of potential there. Yeah. There's, yeah. None of it. It has kind of, you know, in the light pattern, it's kind of added some dark flecking there, but it still has, you know, still the bright whites. So I'm hoping that stays. And the, the male that I have isn't as contrasty, but he's more contrasty than most spots that I've found. So, and the male is the one that's like you said, that's the one that Ryan, yeah, it's a, it's a striped. Yeah, let me pull that one out real quick. I sure face. Ryan's, is that him? No. No, that's, that's that, that little one, that's what it looks like now. That's a reaction photo. Okay. So, like I said, it's got kind of black flecking in all the white now, but still cool. Yeah. Still clean it up. And I just sent you the one that Ryan produced. Oh. Oh, well, yeah, that's me. I'm, I'm being an owner of soccer for stripes. Thanks for three-weighting. Yeah, yeah, you're going to like that one. Um, what a stripe. Oh, shit, I closed it when I was trying to open it. What the hell? Um, yeah, I think, yeah, here it is. Okay. So you're just going to try to make, uh, which works pattern or color because already tried to just muck out both once my main thing is pat or I mean, my main thing is the color, the contrast. Yeah. If I end up a stripe, that's great. Um, but yeah, my main thing is a contrast. That is really cool. Yeah, man. Okay. All right. So, so do you have a favorite species of the, of the one you're working with? Yeah. Uh, for sure, the wheat belt. Okay. Yeah. Just because they've got, you know, kind of the color palette of a pop one carpet python. Yes. Maybe even a little bit more extreme. Yes. I agree. One prick pony is all of you. Um, I don't know. Oh, and when you see these wheat belts, you're going to be like, what? I, I, I will, I will make that determination for myself. Thank you very much. But I've heard the wheat belt, and I've seen wheat belts. I mean, I've seen don't get arachewate. You have or had wheat belts? I have, yeah, two point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like those, um, there probably breed next. I just can't add any more interecia. I'm good with two. Like, you know, I don't want to get any interecia. I can't. I can't. I can't do it. I can't not have. No, blackheads first, but I do love that because that's like, that's what's on the book cover. Isn't it? Is a wheat belt? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's quick, essential. You know, that's a really good looking animal. You know what it is for me? I, when I was a kid, I loved giraffes, right? Me like giraffes were my favorite animal. And they remind me of giraffes. That's like the color of them remind me of giraffes without the black outline around the, the, I don't know what you would call it the spot or whatever it is. Oh, you would know. You're a mammal guy. What are the spot? It's called a spot. I don't know what it is. What are you talking about a articulated giraffe? Then it's just the reticulated graph. But, you know, it's, I was just because you're like, I always love the giraffe. Always up there. So hi, all the way up there in the sky. It's like, I always wish I could be up there. Let him down here with the interecia. So I have this that'll for an answer. I can do his dream. Oh, man. Okay, so what about the feeding aspect? Getting them going, right? You bred them? What was what's your experience with with them with that? Well, so the first year was what would you say heard horror stories? Oh, yeah, yeah. The first year I only had the one baby. And I gave it a an unscented red hot pink and ban right off the bat, like it had eaten a thousand times. Shit. Okay. The second year, I said, that gives you the false confidence. You're like, yeah, I got it. Yeah. Like the next year, you're like, shut up. Why do reptiles always do that? I don't know why they always try to get it. I know what I'm doing. No, you don't. Yeah. The second year, same thing, first one, bam, right off the bat, it ate it. Yeah. It was the only one out of 11 that the section that joy less a little bit longer. And then only one out of 11 that ate for like, I didn't even take good notes and track it. It was it was weeks and weeks. Eventually, I got a few to eat drop fed. And then I got a few to eat drop fed with either gecko or quail synth. Okay. Okay. And then I had quite a few holdouts that just wouldn't eat anything. So I did the chicken gizzard thing that the the conjurer people are talking about. Okay. And a couple of those eight right off the bat after that, just one, you know, one assist fed meal and they that got them going. I'm trying to remember, there was a couple that just still wouldn't eat. And I did the braining thing and that worked. And then I had a couple holdouts that just I could never get going. Just never went. Yeah. There's there's some every year, especially with weird stuff. Like I always get at least one or two mad dogs that just don't and end up just come around, but they don't. And it was like, I'm kind of okay with that because then every generation is going to get better. Yeah. Well, and I know, I think one of the things that might have been an issue is, I've heard like Justin talk about pygmies. Once you start assist feeding, you've got to be like right on top of it. Yep. And there might have been a week where I lapsed and that was, you know, that was the end of it. I mean, they didn't die immediately. I got another meal in them, but at that point it might have been too late. It's the thing with that though. It's like, because like I have been assist feeding an Arizona mountain, Kingston, extension, it hatched last year. And like I mean, like I have to put the mouse tail in her mouth and then she'll eat the whole mouse tail. And that's as big as she's going. And I put her parents together. Why? I don't know. I'm an idiot. So I'm like, do I want to keep going with this? And also like if I don't assist feed her every week, there's going to be a problem here. So it's like I've been in that world where you do all the things and you do this just eating for a year. And then the animal still dies or like you can't do anything like I can't sell her. She's still being assist fed. So yes. Oh, and that's something else. I've never really tested it on my own, but I've heard from, you know, other inter-regiabreaders that you want to have a pretty high hotspot. You want it to be like 90 plus to really get them going. And I don't know if it works because I've always done it that way, but I had pretty good success. I felt good. You know, back when I was having a hell of a time getting albino carpets to eat, there was a guy in Australia. He said the same thing to me. He's like, you're not keeping their hotspot hot enough. You have to get it at like 90. Yeah. I guess that makes, I guess it makes sense to a certain extent because it's pretty hot. Yeah. I'm Karen Darwin, you know. Well, and I keep all my stuff in my basement and I don't use any like, you know, hot spot is hot. Right. So yeah, yeah, if I don't have a good hotspot for them to thermoregulate, you know, it's they, they need a gradient. So yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Very cool. Do you see yourself ever getting like Pigmy Bandids or Pigneys? Eventually I want everything that's available. Yeah. Okay. And hills or like, you know, how tiny can we get here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Pigneys are probably my favorite besides the wheat belts. Yeah. I went to Williams and saw his and I can't even describe the color. Like they're red. Real bad. I don't know if it's the ear of a decents or what, but like they're red, but they're also purple. Like they're just the most beautiful thing. Yeah. And it's crazy that you know, like the clutch fits like yeah. Yeah. You know, the whole thing is like there you go. Yeah. Yeah. With the with the mom on it. Yeah. I just like that. Babies could use the olive python eggs as a hide. Yes. For a while. Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of I've been looking at some of the stuff in Australia, man. Holy hell. And it comes to an Tereja. Oh, I know. I know. Something today it was like a reduced. I think it was a spotted python. But it was like reduced pattern and I was like, oh man, I hope this thing doesn't have Noro. You know, immediately I'm going right to it's good. It's going to be a jag. But it was like a platinum maybe it was platinum. I can't remember what the name of it was, but holy hell is it nice. I'm going to see if I find it. Maybe I find it. There's so many different colors and mutations of entourage in Australia. It's like I think we're just so lacking here because I don't think. Yeah. What are we going to have? And we're not on this like we're having picked up on it. And I'm kind of on the fence. It's like I'm okay with morphs, but at the same time, I'm like, I'm kind of glad we don't have all those morphs in the entourage because then they just become ball pythons. We wouldn't know what a normal one looks like and like, I don't know, they're beautiful on their own. Yeah, that is true. Yeah, you don't, you don't got to convince me of that. But I'm a sucker for like a reduced pattern. Man, I wish I could remember. You don't know the guys that had that podcast that did entourage it. I can't think of their name. No, okay. No, no, it's gone. We'll move on. It's over. I'll find it and I'll send it to you then. I'll send it. So I'm like, yeah. So babies with like, if you found that purchasing might help them or this is that just something they just don't give a care about. You know, I haven't tried giving them purchase the babies anyway. I've used like the mesh on the older, you know, like yearlings. But the babies, I start in one of those like, itty bitty pencil. Oh, the really tiny. I don't use the smallest tub. I use like this, the second tub. I think that's what I put my corn snake babies in because otherwise they're just like, and they're like between the gap and gone. Exactly. I was like, every, every other rack that I looked at, I was like, those things are going to get out of there. Yep. So yeah, that, in that, that thing's like what, maybe an inch tall. Yeah. There's no room for a perch. Yep. But yeah, the bigger ones, I've never seen them like coiled up, perched on it. They'll crawl all over it. But I don't see them messing on a perch. So I think they're more of like rock crevice type of species. Yeah. Kind of like, you would want like a, you know, a tight hide or something. Yeah. And that's what I take like a toilet paper roll or a paper towel roll and I kind of smush it flat. Oh, so they get inside of it. And then it's close. I like that. Yeah. I bet you they would, they would really love like a reat stack. You know, you know, like the most. Oh, god. Yeah. Yeah. They get in there all the different levels of thermoregulation or something like that. Yeah. Another fun thing because things are so small like in those tubs where I have my baby corn snakes, baby rhinos, baby, kinks, snakes, I mean, anything too tiny to go to a rack. Um, like going to lows, you can buy like a bag of like PVC pipe like tries and then just put it in there and that's a hide for them. It's just like a little, a little PVC pipe. That's a good idea. And there it is. And they sell them for bags. So you just take the whole bag and you got 40 hides and you can clean them in a big tub of soap and water when it comes time. But, um, that's what I've done with my guys because like you said, there's no space then you just. Yeah. In there. So that's cool. Okay. Yeah. So, um, with when it comes to, um, breeding them, is it, I mean, seems like to me. They're pretty simple. Like, I would say, I would say if you have a room like mine where the ambient just goes up and down on its own, yeah, I would say you probably don't even need to adjust the thermostat. Um, at least for the children's pythons and my one attempted e-sterns, like they were, they were trying no matter what. My wheat belts, I tried last year and they just didn't do anything and it may have been that they weren't ready. They sure seemed like it. Well, they should have been ready because the female was at 2021. But this year I got them a lot cooler. Um, I'm not sure exactly how cool I got, but it was definitely below 70, probably mid 60s. Okay. And I don't know if that's the trick, but they were breeding this year. Uh, and I will say the wheat belts, uh, everybody else wanted to breed no matter what, but the wheat belts, I had to do some feeds, you know, separate feed and then they, they started locking. Um, and every time they quit locking, I'd separated and fed again and that, that got going again. So, yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if there's really a whole lot of difference between the different species, but that's the, the only difference I've found so far as far as care. Just to say, according to Australia, there's not. There's no, no, there's no species. There's no difference. I will disagree with that. So a lot. As far as care. Yeah. Um, that's cool. I, uh, yeah, I think when it comes to, uh, I was just going to say, uh, I'm thinking more that I'm going to take my reptiles, my snakes down to 60 when I cool. Go forward. I think 70's just too normal. Yeah. I mean, like my route down to 70 as it is. And yeah, I mean, it just doesn't seem like a drop to me. That's my early night drop is 70. So yeah, they got to go further in my opinion. So I usually take them to close to 60 like, and they don't, and I'm not talking like, gay one of cooling, like all the way down to like, it's a gradual. And then it's at daytime, we still get back up into the age. So yeah, that I think is that they need the basking spot during the day and No food Okay, but I'll take I'll take them down the western so they need the food That's I think Like I said, I'll take him to 60 and I won't feed anybody but then with other larger things like the breadly Or coldest species breadly olive pythons off at that. I'll take them on the other side of 60 So I'm not saying like you know we joke saying that I dropped them down to 50 I do not do that due to the breadly. I don't do that to the olive pythons They do go lower than 60 maybe like 58 for a week and then back up so yeah But it's not like they melt once it goes below 60. It's not I've been watching. I don't know It's but that's things like it's long as it's not permanent Yeah, I don't know that was one of the things that was one of the things I thought about this breeding season like I'm not seeing the same level of Interaction as I have in the past they might just be also being sneaky like you have to watch good I mean I did not see a single lock out of this pair and she's as wide as a house And I'm like well either she ate a rat that I don't remember feeding her in the last three months or right The flip side of that is I think Last year, I didn't I did a night drop, but it wasn't very much for my pop one carpets Yeah, and then whenever I came out of breeding season I decided you know what I'll go ahead and give him a bigger night drop all year round and then this breeding season Even though I went with an even bigger night drop. I'm not seeing the locks the way that I did before someone and Are they to use to a night drop now, you know where before they didn't notice the change? I don't know it's only two years of trying so Yeah, I feel like I feel like a lot of that has to just do with consistency of whatever you choose to do Yeah, you know what I mean and like not try to change it up so much, but yeah, you know, it's like okay This is the plan. We're stick to it. You know, I'm starting to like the lights go off at this time and that I don't know throughout the year Yeah, I think that's where I'm finding this breeding season Again, like it's you know, I'm bred in a few years So it's kind of like getting back on the horse, but when I'm doing it I'm just like yeah, I'm probably gonna change change this or that but I'm just I don't know I you know, it could be all my head like I was saying I don't know, but yeah feeling like I Would I would much I would much rather let them see it go to 60 so it goes like a real drop But I think pop winds don't need need that I think they're like, you know like green trees and stuff where they For guardless, you know, I they're not really experiencing that but I think as long as you keep them on a cycle and follow it Yeah, it'll be good. I saw locks on mine. I think one because everybody was dropping down at the same time I think they're night hit 75 and they were locking up and I'm like alright, so you guys are good Here I kept dropping them, but I probably could have just been like and good so I just didn't want the male to not Be producing sperm and stuff just because I stopped here, so Then he just be having fun for no reason and there has to be a reason behind it. Otherwise, what are we doing here? So I'm not here for his entertainment god damn it Oh man, okay, so like are you so you're I forget maybe you said this already No, that was in one you said you keep together are you you're and the one you're taking in and out feeding with the Stimson's but everything else you're leaving together Yeah, just left him together as long as they were we're greeting I I'm probably separated just because I was separating I like yeah If I'm gonna throw a mouse I'm gonna get all the bait or all the animal separate everybody needs to go to their own corners Yeah, so I was like no mind as well Throw them a mouse while they're apart, but I don't know that it made any difference as far as breeding because they were breeding without that so All right, and then it was just your standard python breeding from them on yeah, I mean Yeah, drop the temperatures a little bit at night and then Once you see an ovulation give them some pretty good heat because I don't know Just like with the babies needing a good hotspot and my room being cool The begin with I want to give them a nice hotspot and they're they're pretty much always stuck right on it Once they're going my children's python goes I have a nest box and all of their cages and she goes between the nest box and Lans straight on the heat tape basically whereas The others are well the wheat belts basically just living in the nest box right now And I don't know if she's gravied yet or not because the male still clinging to her but How what are you doing for your nest box setup is just a top? Yeah, it's just like a six cork tub kind of thing full of moss. Okay. Yeah, it's awesome. It's a six-court Six-court hide for breed female why? Carbiculate it's head in it's like you know, yeah Oh, man, I wonder Dale used all those entries for his set egg studies since I mean, yeah, that was makes sense Yeah, but in many the room Cool, okay, and then yeah, we talked about the the feeding and whatnot now But other than that is there any other issues that you ran into as far as the babies when you're getting them Go in and started or I mean once they're going they're rock solid. I mean They're tiny So you need to you need to make sure that you don't have any like you know heating issues or Or you're on top of their water. That's the other thing you in those little tiny drawers you don't have room for a very big water bowl so you got to be checking that thing every day Make sure it's not dry. Yeah Be on top of your water changes with them being so small Do you do you approach feeding them as babies are is it a weekly thing? Is it every couple of days like what's the Yeah, I think I think it's good to do every like three or four days whenever they first get going um And then I don't know once they're you know pretty solid and they aren't these little tiny worms and you can go to once a week and then Right, I mean go from there. Yeah. Once they reach adulthood. It's just like any other python You just kind of feed them whenever they look like they need food. Gotcha I think that's where I screwed up when I originally got an teeregia is like I was approaching them So like with me I fed baby carpets like every two weeks Yeah, when they were first you know getting going right and and um You know I would after I got them kind of like I was trying not to stress them out But still have a meal in them and then you know once like to your point once they're going and they never refused Then it was just yeah, you know you'd give them weekly or whatever Maybe every 10 days or something like that and I the thing I that I the For for my males I bought a big bag of Dale Quail chicks Okay, like a giant bag of them and I was like Because I was gonna use them to get like carpets going that we're needed is like all my carpets started eating okay So What am I gonna do with all these quail chicks and that's what all my male and teeregia eat so nice little day old quail That's all they need I'll give them some mice so they have something with a little bit more substance every once in a while but I think of the food bill too like I think I'm like oh yeah Like what I just spent on large ones like you know It's just like the biggest thing you're gonna get is a large mouse. Yep. Yeah. Yeah Do you prefer as they as adults are you feeding is that what you're feeding them large mice? Yeah, they don't even probably need large mice, but you know medium medium large mice And every once in a while I'll give the females Maybe like a small rat or something okay Just to give them a little more fat on the yeah that makes sense Okay, cool And then did we talk I don't even know yeah you did talk about you your ambience you You keep a cooler ambience, so you have a hotspot um Of like you keep 90 all the time yeah, yeah pretty pretty much even even with the adults I give them 90 yeah, but the the babies I go upwards of 90 Yeah, just give them a nice hotspot cool What's the next antiregia? Uh Pigmies would be my next one my my preference if I could find some Particularly it seems like there there seems to be a male shortage too. I everybody know I Talk to seems to be looking for a male and I want both so I don't know it might be might be a weight. I don't know Well, I could start with female if I can find one but And then I don't I probably want to get some more wheat belts just because they're my I think they are my favorite of all the snakes I have they're my favorite thing So I think I need more than a pair That sounds like it. - I have the pair of the two localities, the wheat belts and then the berms. - The berms, yeah. Those are cool. They've got like a reduced pattern kind of thing in, yeah, they're different looking. - Yeah, it's cool. First of all, let's just start with the wheat belts. I mean, that's pretty bad ass that we have access to that. You know what I mean? That was, I remember in the early days when I was getting into all the all the Python's, you would look at the Eastern's and I guess like Eastern's didn't get into love in the US. Now there's some really, really nice Eastern's. But back then. - Speaking of that, I just sent you another picture. I could continue that. - Yeah. But back then it was kind of like, they were kind of like, you know, I don't know. You know, like just brown snakes, I guess, if you will. - Dirt snakes. - Dirt snakes. - Yeah, yeah. - What they were. - Yeah, but holy shit, man. It was like the, as soon as you were like, I don't even remember what reptile book it was, but I'm flipping through and then it's like wheat belt stumps. And so I was like, why can't we have that? Holy shit. You know, like God damn. - We're those. - Yeah. Hold on, let me pull this picture up and see what we got. I mean, that's just the, the dishes for all that kind of stuff. I mean, it's just being able to get all the different flavors. It would be so cool. - Oh man. Yeah, it's giraffe, man. - Yeah, it's a giraffe snake. It's all I want. So yeah, the animal you're pulling up now is my male Eastern Stimpsons python. And I got these, my Stimpsons, my Easterns from, from Todd Case as well. - That's cool. - These are the ones he's letting go. (laughing) - He's got the best, the best antiregia that I've seen. - Does he selectively breed them? Like you said, yeah. - Okay. - I think he's got, I couldn't begin to tell you what all he's got, but he at least has two adult females that he's been breeding regularly. And he's got a couple of different looks. This is the more traditional one, but then he's also produced these ones that he calls Tri-Color, where each blotch is kind of like a reddish orange is brown thing, but then there's like a dark, like richer ring around them. And they just, they're insane. - Wow. - That's cool. - But yeah, my goal with these is to really kind of pull out the yellow base color and try to get more of an orangeish red out of the browns. - Okay. - Wow. - That's, I was gonna show the close-up picture too. Just to get. - They do love the contrast. And it's something about every single one of them. And three, she just have some of the best eyes for-- - Oh yeah. - For based in their, and with colors and so on that, their eyes just pop, it's nuts. - Yeah. - Jesus. - Right? - Yeah, look at all those colors in there. - Yeah. - That's really cool. - Is this one the female or something? - Yeah, the one I just sent you is the female. So she's got a little bit of a cleaner pattern she didn't have quite as popping of colors, but her pattern's a little cleaner. So I'm excited. I ended up, even though they were trying, I decided to separate in this year, 'cause I think they're a little small. - Okay. - Just to, so you still might get some or you just kinda want her to have any, which means you'll probably have in some. - I mean, if she goes, she goes, but I never saw any locks, but I saw the male trying really hard. - Maybe did it sneak. - You'd come back here. - Yeah. - Wow. - So yeah, we'll see if they go. She's still pretty small. I never got a good weight on her, but she's cool. It can, less than 250 grams made Jesus. - Wow, yeah, that's small. - That's so cool. - Very cool. Okay. Yeah, I am a huge fan of the fact that we have wheat belts. - Oh yeah. - I think that's awesome. - Okay. - Cool. - Let me put up my notes here. - I guess we'll kinda divert. Do you wanna go and talk some popular carpet or we still have them, if you have any other questions on an inter-reja? - I don't know. Do you wanna hit on, yeah, we can move that. - Yeah, it's just in the carpet pythons. I can do carpet pythons. (laughing) - It doesn't like that. - So with your carpet pythons, there we go. I asked the question. - What's up with my carpet pythons? - So, I mean, I got a decent pile of carpet pythons. - Good, good. - These are good things. (laughing) - This year, pop-up carpet sort of, you know, the base of my carpet collection. This year I attempted two pairings. I used my granite male, who's a possible head for exanthic. - Okay. - And I was trying him back with, oh, god, my pixel saw. - Yeah, that's for oh my god. Oh no, that's how it's supposed to look. - That's one of my babies from last year. So that is, that was to a possible double head. So now we know it's a head for granite. But I didn't really get much clarity on whether they were, they're either one of them carried exanthic. So I was hoping to try that again. I only ended up with six babies. I had a little bit of an incubation issue where I think water was getting on the eggs. So, only have to clutch hatch in no exanthics to be seen. But they all, none of them are normal colored either. So, yeah. (laughing) - That's great. - So somebody at least carries exanthic, if not both parents. So I was hoping to figure that one out this year, but I'm not sure I'm going to because I don't think my head exanthic is gonna go. I think the mother of this one is likely gonna go again though. - Oh, okay. So is your ultimate goal to make exanthic granites? - Yeah. - Yeah. - What's your feeling with that? Like as far as, I think about, I see just a lot of variability. I keep thinking about one, the one that Star had, you know, that killer one that everybody was like, "Oh my God, what is this?" And then some of them I see, it's like, "Oh yeah, okay, that's okay." You know, but I don't know what you're feeling on that. - It's hard to know, I've never seen one in person. So, - Yeah. - It's hard to judge. - Right. - But there's so much variability in granite, itself, throwing in another morph, which also has quite a bit of variability honestly. There's gonna be a range in different looks, even it like from one exanthic granite to the next. So it's really hard telling. This one here, this is when it's like fired down, when it's looking at its darkest, when it's like, at its lightest, it's kind of this like, purply blue thing. And I'm just curious like if it had, if it was a visual exanthic, like what would that look like? Like, would it just be like gray or would it be blue or? - Right. - Yeah. - I don't know why, like when I hear, I've heard Nick talk about this. And I just, to me, I don't know if what I saw, maybe I misunderstood what he said, but when he was talking about exanthics and yellow, he was like saying like, you shouldn't put yellow into it because you're trying to take yellow out of it, right? - Right, right. - And I get that, but like man, some of the nice exanthic ball pythons have a yellow bit like a pastel exanthic, it pops, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - Like, you know, those, I can't think of that guy's booth. I mean that guy that breeds like all exanthic ball python, I can't remember his name, but in order to guess it doesn't matter, but like that's all he works with. So it's all different variations. And like, he had this one, I think that it was called a stormtrooper where it was white and black. - Right and black, yeah. - Yeah. - Okay, so it's popular, even though it knows about the ball. - Yeah, I mean, you dipped into Star Wars, which means you're gonna get me every time. - Yes. - So, - That's it. - It's like you with guitar picks. - Yeah. - There's many guitar picks. - Yeah, this is, yeah. But I think like, I'm gonna try to go to go with a more higher yellow, base to sort of put that into, 'cause I think of like, Graham, Paul Boy, you know, that one with all that yellow that was on it, what would that look like as a grand in exanthic? I just think it would look, remember the team war? Remember, I mean, as far as team war pythons go, it's kind of like, - Exactly. - Yeah, okay. It really kind of like had like a pop to it because I think of all that. What the pattern helped with that kind of stuff and yeah, true. That's why these things kind of pop out like that, but you know, it's It's cool, but like you said the variations. I think if it's any kind of patterned animal Variations are gonna be there on just the the original like on the wild type yeah adding morphs. You still don't lose that variation and variability. It just becomes Now there's silver. It's like I don't it's yeah, right. So now there's more stacking on top, but I just I just I just sent Erica a sibling to the one he just showed down down down down put the picture up my heart. Come down Put your shirt up. Breathe just to show the variation and you know, it's I still have that one right? Yeah, that one right. Yeah, good man. Good man. That's gonna say don't Ben's better at picking whole backs than we were like you know, I well every single animal I've ever produced is still in my house Correct correct Almost like a jack granite jack. Yeah, that's just a straight granite granite possible head for example But yeah, no jack in the no jack and The whole clutch kind of had other than the the previous one that since you kind of had Kind of like a a jaggy kind of look to them Let me see if I can that's the one I would breathe into That's what I'm talking about that. Yeah, I do that one. Yeah Okay, I'm gonna that's that's like definitely less pattern too and See that's yeah, so I think the thing that I'm going and this wasn't the direction that I was going until I saw this thing catch Always that way I don't want to go shit, you know just like the granite where like the the pattern just kind of completely disappears That was the direction that I wanted to go yeah, but then most the clutch had a Pattern to it and this one's the best example, but Now that's the way I want to guide is just gorgeous. Yeah, she's pretty look at that eye man that eye that's just like tucked down there Yeah, the white rim or like around the point. I'm so cool. Oh, man. That's awesome snake Yeah, man, that's so cool. I'm sending you a couple well Keep that one the fired up version of the the one you showed previously and then another one of their siblings or two of their siblings a Wild type as well Because yeah the whole I catch two wild types and they Have big old fat back stripes They yeah, they kind of look like a jag Yeah, I'm gonna show the regular one first because talk about you know, it's weird the The xanic granites that I produced that are the hats hats just hats a lot of striping in those two I don't know if you noticed that and I've seen that in other people's clutches I just don't I don't know if it's related to the gene or if it's just you know that doc is related or what I Don't know, but I was happy to see it Yeah, and that's why I Know that I can let that go I wouldn't Would not wow it kind of makes me want to get a tiger I J So to me I love when when when a pop one has like the backstrike And then it has the saddles but the top of the saddle is solid and the bottom of the saddle is kind of like Like it has a lighter color inside I love that look to me that's like you have that all down at the base That you know as you're getting towards the tail I don't know if I'm and that's the thing that I'm trying to figure out like Is it because it's head for Xanthic? It seems like it still has yellow but like there's no red. There's no orange in this one. Yeah And like the whole clutch kind of has this look other than one for a time I sent you a picture was was bright yellow, but it has faded away And kind of looks like the rest Gotcha. Yeah, there's There was a couple screamers in here that you said you keep popping up But this is how you build a project is you start with one thing and then you you you have to be fluid enough to Edit it Jesus Christ. Yeah Like I said that one it's not as yellow anymore. It's not away. Oh, God. Yeah But you have to be fluid enough to realize what comes out of the egg Might just have to have its own project built around it exactly. Yeah Where I'm going with them now is not what I envisioned whenever I Originally did the pairing yeah Yeah, and that's kind of the fun of breeding right but yeah, you know I do love and I would say that this is the move to make if you're getting into that you and Owen did this right I did this totally wrong but like you you pick the morph You've kind of like, you know, I'm taking it in this direction crazy things pop out You kind of veer left you veer right and you're still working within the same But now you have like this set you have this group that you're gonna kind of work with and try to tweak with and I think That's what sets people apart in the hobby because you're not gonna be able to Just necessarily good like if you're gonna get an exand at granite you're gonna go to bed You know what I mean because he's got these Wands with this look or whatever you know blah blah. I mean yeah, that's the I've never seen Grannets that look like that one in the no that pale bone white one like that that you need that one up next right? Yeah, I Save that one for last Yeah, man, you're right. I But that like you were saying dude like you you You make it so that you're what the product like your project so where people go after like you know Issue with reds and stuff like that you focus on that but then you kind of drift off depending on how it goes This is that one fired up the one Yeah, that was that was the original one fired up and like I said it's kind of like blue in person. It's yeah weird I just like dig the eyes. It's like dark It's like dark and then there's like a white ring around the black slit which which makes it really cool you do a really good job Capturing the colors of these things Because it's very hard to get like the like I know that purple hue Just looking at so many grant you know, I mean like you but you nailed it. It's sometimes it's very hard to get that That's that's my job I'm a I'm a photographer well I was a photographer for a long time still do it on the side, but my I'm a photo editor so Okay, I know my whole job. It's what I do I remember you are I remember I think I remember from the last show you were talking about being a photographer, but yeah This one is still my favorite now. I can't wait to see what you do with that that I guess what do you what do you even what do we call in that reduced pattern one? I don't even know I What did you call it you called it something earlier? Yeah Reduce pattern is kind of this pattern. Yeah, I mean it's it's kind of a jaggy looking thing But yeah, I don't know. No, no, no, no All the choice of a jag but none of the upside down this yeah holy shit. That's that's really nice man Okay, so you got a lot of directions you're going with your granites and yeah trying to get Xanick into it Yeah, imagine that with even less color like it reminds me of a snow leopard Yeah, yeah, I see it and just you know just enhance the color reduce the pattern even more see what happens And like it would look awesome if it had a lot of yellow in it too. Yeah, or even orange So yeah, that pattern is it's wild. There's lots of ways you can take it and that whenever I built my collection like I like the morphs, but Wild type is still my favorite and I kind of wanted to build it in such way that like I could make awesome looking wild types and then have a byproduct of having cool looking morphs too. That's yeah It's kind of my goal. So I Think I think it's gonna work out. Yeah, no, I mean That's all right over that snake. Holy shit and how old is that snake? Hatch last year it actually hatched it was a really early clutch. So is about this time last year. So is it a male or female? Female everyone in the clutch is a female Okay, of course Okay, so a couple years from now. We'll Yeah, we watching See what you do with it to it happens. Yeah, it's really cool, man. Okay Is that you're the extent of what you're doing you're just trying to refine that granite and get the really nice normal babies off of that uh, well I've got Did the math or I think it's 3.6 pop wooden carpets besides the ones that I produced okay That's what you got all those. Yeah, one of them. I I got it now. Sorry. - Yeah. - About half of them have morph genes in them and half of them are just really good lineage stuff from Nick and from Mike Cross. (laughing) - Oh boy. - Well, at least they're in, I got them. - Yeah. - Yeah. - At least you got them. That's, yeah, whenever. - Nicholson Hurt the culture now. - Yeah, whenever I came back to reptiles, I remembered a name from the forum. It was like, oh, that guy's probably safe, got a buy from him. He was like the first guy that I spent money with. (laughing) I got lucky. (laughing) - You got him in the early days. - Yeah. - Nice. - But. - I forgot about this one. This one. - Wait a minute, hold on. The, it's probably your favorite I would imagine. But. - It is. - It's my perfect pop-win carpet. - I think I know which one you're gonna bring up. - That one. - Yep. - So yeah, that's pretty. - I have that one because of this podcast. - Oh, really? (laughing) - Oh good, we did it. - We did something. - Yeah. - When we did the pop-win carpet round table with Nick told that pairing that he was gonna make and I began pounding him then. - Smart man. - And basically for, yeah. - For two, this was the only male that he got. And I just kept on pounding him. Hey, hey, can I have it? Can I have it? (laughing) He finally let me have it. - Is it you, M Pen? - Yeah. - Aw. - I know it. - Aw, that's it. - Yeah, that's actually GQ, I don't think it M Pen. Half of it's like, - K2. - Yes. - GQ, K2, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, it's from Luke's Nell's stuff, right? - Let me double check it real quick actually. - Okay. - Either way, it's pretty. Like, you know, and that's. - K2 Eddie, that's it. - I think, yeah. - Oh man, I'm getting, you can tell. - You're tired. - I mean, I'm not going to do it. - He's just trying. - What the fuck is that? - I mean, dear God, that's a gorgeous animal. And Nick let it go. And Nick let it go to not Eric. So, - Yeah. - Well, I have it. - Well, he had the same animals. - He did that pairing again. So, this one's a 24. He did it again last year. And he left. - But that was a few go. Those would be, those would be pop ones that even I would get into. So. - Yeah, that's, so it's Luke, Nell had K2 and Eddie. And Eddie was this amazing GQ animal. And K2 I think was, Kabala and, it was two K animals that he had. So, he called it a two. Hence the name, K2. - Wow. - Let's say it was Kabala, Kabala, something like that. And yeah, he bred them together. And those adults were holy shit. - Sometimes we're really fun with our names. Sometimes it's just blatantly obvious. - Yeah. - Yeah. - We got that, it's gorgeous. - I love the frosting around the nose. - I love the thing. - It's kind of like, - There's the triangle right inside its nose pattern that doesn't make any sense. - I love it. - I love it. - I do. I also dig the background color and then the contrast of the spots. It's like, - You know what, this reminds me of a cook town carpet. - Yeah. - It's got the same, like the same, to me it's like the perfect carpet by Thana. I'll show you exactly what I mean. - That is a really cool, I just, again, I think it just carcans back to what I love about carpets is the contrast in the color. Between, like this isn't just the solid green or solid yellow, it's like you have the base pattern, you have the black outlines of the saddle, you have the rusty orange color that are inside the saddles and it all comes together to make this, you know, just fun looking animal. So, I think you need the contrast in certain things. But can you imagine a granite with that yellowy creamy color base? Is that the idea? - It should be. - Yeah. (laughing) - That's what I do. - I was actually looking up the lineage on this thing and it's not. - Oh no. - Oh no, it's not K2. - Oh no. - I was right, it is pretty much half leery blood. - Okay. - And then, let's see, is Hannibal. - Oh. - Yeah. A name of an I know. - Hannibal, really? - Hannibal. - I do have a female K2 Eddie. - Yeah, K2 Eddie. And that will be his first objective. (laughing) - Well, I'm telling you now, you should put my name on that list. (laughing) - Mary's like, I feel that list like four times. Like the first four are mine. - I'm gonna do what you did to Nick. (laughing) - I mean, it's only fair. I only, I have that snake because of you. (laughing) - It makes the most sense to be this way. - Oh man, I'm so off on my, on my pop win lineage. - Yeah, you even see, I'm so disappointed myself. - You even see Hannibal child. You look, you skipped right over that. - The reason is, is because it surprises me that Nick has anything Hannibal, because of what Hannibal is. That just surprises me that. - Well, you know. - Okay, just as Nick's, you know, pooing it in this hand, doesn't mean he's not sneaking him in on this hand. Like, you know, - Let me just find the side. - Let me just find the side. - I do, you know, and Tereja and I spotted Pythons are just sliding in when you're not looking. You know? - So this is a cookdowns carpet. - Yes. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's as good as it gets. - And that's like the perfect carpet by the way. - And where's, where's, where would this, would this be variegada range for cookdowns? - This would be variegada, yeah. - Okay. - Then it makes sense, doesn't it? - Damn, it's almost like, - Oh, it's almost like the same damn thing. - Right. - That's so weird. - Very cool. - Okay. - But they're so variable, especially with variegada having such a large, larger range than we gave them credit for before. It almost looks like that maybe that's why you see such variability in captive poppels. Because we've grabbed them from all over the place. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - You know? - For sure. - And it's not even getting into the Indo stuff, which is even weirder. - Yeah, I don't, you know. - Yeah, I don't mess with the Indo stuff. Yeah, I know. - No, no, no, I'm just wondering, I just wonder like, is there other looks, why wouldn't they be variable up there? - There's tons. - We only see like a, a small section of. - Well, and that's, and I think poppano getting, - I think I've said that before, where it's like, if you could pick a carpet python project, that you actually wanna have fun with, why not choose the one that you can still get, while call it blood in, and build, like we've seen what coastal colors can do, with what they're doing over in Australia, with like the white coastles and shit like that, like that's line breeding shit. - Right. - We've seen what we can do to jungles, we made everything black and yellow. Now obviously with poppano and you can go in so many different directions and enhance the colors, so many different colors. Like if you wanna focus on that base color and orange or if you wanna go blues and purple, like they're there, just figured out. - You're preaching to the choir, man. - I know, I'm trying to tell you that. - I know, I know, I'm like trying to sell you or something, like I'm trying to sell you or something that you've already sold like bought. - Yeah. - Like I'm trying to sell you your own car. - I'm trying to sell you your own car in your driveway. - Like it's, oh man. - So you were talking to us about inland car pits, and you had a situation in inland. - Yeah. - Last year. - That would say fun. (laughing) - Let me backtrack. Maybe not fun. - Learning. - Learning. - Learning. - Learning. Learning is sometimes fun. It's time. Not. (laughing) - Well let me phrase this. I think it's fitting that in an inter-agia episode, we talk about inland because in my mind, inland are inter-agia of more, I don't know how to say that. They're the most like inter-agia of the merelia. They have the same feed response. They have a similar pattern where, at least like my wheat belts kind of have like a spot thing going down their neck with side lateral striping kind of thing going on. - Sure. - They're just, they just seem like the same personality of antarigia to me. They're mellow. Well my babies aren't really mellow, but the adults are super chill just like the antarigia. Unless they think there's food. - That's on. - Yep. But yeah, I just love inland's. And I think there's a lot of potential with them too. But yeah, last year, I had a clutch and I had seven babies hatch And then like, it was like two weeks. And then another six all hatched. Like I went in and I pipped everything that didn't hatch immediately. And I thought they were all dead and I started poking, oh, one just jumped. So I was like, okay, we'll just let this ride out. And yeah, like two weeks later, the first batch was already shedding. In fact, I think before the last one hatched, all of the babies from the first batch had already shed, which was really weird. - That's a good one, yeah. - And then I fed everything after the first batch shed. I was like, I'll just go ahead and try to feed the new ones too. And two of the babies from the second batch actually ate. But then no matter what I did, I could never get them to eat. Again, all the ones from the first batch ate just fine. But then two of them ate first try out of the second batch and then never again. And they never shed out correctly. And after talking to a few people, two people separately came up with the same theory that the female ovulated from each oviduct at different times. But then obviously when it came time to lay, they all came out at the same time. So the second batch was possibly prematurely laid and not ready, which I don't know, it kinda makes sense to me, especially because whenever I was waiting for it or watching the breeding cycle, I kept on thinking I saw ovulation. There's ovulation. And I was sitting pictures to William Philip because he's been kinda my mentor through the England process. But he's like, I don't think she's ovulated. I was like, man, that sure looks like an ovulation to me. And then like a week goes by and it happens again. So I'm kinda thinking that's what happened. - Okay. - That's wild. - That is kinda nuts that that would happen. - Yeah, it gets like makes sense. I can happen, right? Sure. - I mean, that's why I asked if it was possible to fathers 'cause what we were talking about earlier, about basically figuring that eggs got fertilized at different times, which is the leading theory what you were saying is that one over duct got fertilized and then the other one got fertilized and delayed. I guess when the train starts, when you're laying eggs, it doesn't stop until it lays out. - And that was the other thing that makes me think that theory is correct because you know, it was kinda a mat, it wasn't like a ball. It was kinda like maybe a pyramid. - Okay. - It was the ones like around the outside and on top that waited the hatch. So like the first ones that laid, it was like a chronological kind of thing. The first ones that laid all hatched fine, but it was all around, like at first I was thinking maybe it was a temperature thing with my incubator, like maybe the rhymes on the front didn't get as much heat, but no, it was like all around in a couple on top that like it just didn't make sense that it would be a temperature thing. It kinda seemed like chronological from when they were laid. So. - It's wow, man, you must have been banging your head against all doing it. - Oh, it was so frustrating. And it took me a while to figure out whenever I was trying to get them all feeding, it was like, how come all these are eating, but all these aren't. And then I realized that it was those two separate batches and it was like, I mean, that's the only thing that can hit like the ones from the first batch all got going relatively quickly except for two. And I used button quail to get them going and they started immediately on button quail. All the other ones, like I said, the two of them ate first try, but then would never eat again. I eventually, I held out as long as I could, but I eventually tried, you know, the gizzard thing with them too. And yeah, there was just no saving them. I'm wondering if like, I'm wondering if like, not to put any blame on you or anything, if you hadn't pipped and just let them ride. And if they had ridden out for maybe another month or two, I don't know. - Yeah, I had that same thought. And I don't think it was me. I mean, I think pipping them probably wasn't the best thing for them, but I don't, they all came out pretty much at the same time. - Right. - You know, once they started hatching again, they all stuck their heads out at the same time. So it was like they had it time together. - Yeah. - I will say a few of them kind of drug their, the umbilicus around and they didn't hatch, you know, the best way. - Yeah. But I don't know, I think ultimately it was like the skin just wasn't ready. - It's closed there. - Because they never shed correctly. They tried to shed, but it was all like, you know, crackly. And I even, I soaked them multiple times and I tried everything I could to get the shed to work out. I didn't know. But they could just never get it off the face. - Wow. - And yeah, I don't know. That's crazy story, man. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's crazy. I often think like how often does, you know, sperm, hypertension happen and like all those kind of things. - Yeah. - We see like these weird things happen and, yeah, I don't know. It just always makes me wonder, how do you even, how do you even breed to not have that, you know, other than the same pairing over and over and over and over again? - Right. - But I guess, you know, this is another reason why I started to move away from doing, you know, I sort of like, I always had this dance where I was like into pure camp and in the, in the cross camp. And it's like, well, I'm taking, you know, because my idea was it's like, oh, well, if I have a pure female of this and I have a male, I could breed it to the pure female and the cross female. But, you know, if the male, you know, I don't know, I always just got worried that somehow, that's the wrong way to say it. But I always got worried that it would be like, you know, this crazy thing would pop out. That's why I think, remember that red zebra had Owen? - Yeah. - Like did that come from something like that, you know? - Yeah, I mean, you know what I mean? Like how did that happen? - Mm-hmm. - So, I don't know. - And that's the other thing, like the, those babies were super pretty. (laughing) - Is it because their skin wasn't developed correctly? - Probably. - Probably was in the long mouths lines. They were so, they were so contrasty compared to the others. Like the others are beautiful too, but yeah, they were, they just popped. - Yeah. - The prettiest ones were always the worst feeders. - The brookin' asses. - The brookin' asses ones that they take forever to eat. And then when it comes to breeding, they're like, I don't know why she's in here. Like, and it's like, yep, cool. - That's awesome. Okay. All right. Yeah, I don't know. Is there anything else you wanna hit on? Or I think, yeah, I don't know. I think, do we hit on Anter Asia? Do we do it? - Do we do it, do we do it, kid? - Talk about it. - I mean, we talked about the ones that I have. We didn't really talk about, you know? - Anter Asian general, right? - Yeah, Anter Asian general. I'm not really an expert on everything out there, but I do think, I think it's, I don't know, I don't think the community really appreciates what all is available out there because, yeah, you've got the children's pythons, you've got Eastern Stimpson's pythons, which have different looks to them. You have Western Stimpson's, which we have the two localities. We have, Pygmy bandage right here now. - Yep, yep, yep. - My dog's freaking out. - You said, "Pygmy bandage." (laughing) - That's the one you want. (laughing) - Hang on, word. - Let's see, what else we got spots? - We've got Cape York Spottids. - Do you see them as separate? - Yes, yes. - Yeah, but aren't they, oh no wait, we disagree with the current papers. It's the poppin spots that could, probably the same thing is the, the Cain Tear Works, but. - Well, I mean, if they've been broken up. - If, but, if the carpets from those two areas are the same things, why are the spotids broken up? - Yeah, that's a good question. - I don't know. - That's a good question. That's it, get me a boat. I'm going to Australia, I'll figure all this out. - But here's the thing about it for me. They're different populations anyway, so I would keep them separate. - So it's, yeah. - Yeah, so I look at it. - Yeah. It's like if you had right down is the same thing, but they're different, you know. Yeah. Water Python's from Fog Dam as opposed to, you know, Queensland or if you had them from, you know, Papua New Guinea, I would keep them separate. Right? Yep. Yeah. I would. I would. I keep all that separate. Fair enough. I hate you. I split everything. Yep. But yeah, I don't know. That's cool. Yeah. And to be sure, I think you're right. That's why I wanted to kind of do some more shows on them, on them, try to give them more spotlight. Because I think, you know, it seems like herp to cultured to me is sort of taking on this thing where they're doing, you know, like they're trying to do naturalistic enclosures and trying to have all that. And like you want to Python because maybe don't want to clu-bred. I mean, you can't go wrong with the n-you know what I mean? There's so many flavors and stuff, you know, side-the-you know, spot-eds, they get the biggest, right? They do, yeah. But they're still a lot tiny. Three feet. Yeah. Which is, you know, that's not big at all. And, you know, you figure your average carpet is what, five, six feet? Probably, six, seven feet, something like that. So, it's even smaller than that. Yeah. I would say, in my experience, I would say probably the average pet keeper would probably not, to me, spot-ed seem to bite the most. And that seems to be, I don't know if that's just mine. But out of them, that's the ones that attack me the most. Yep. So, which, Leonard Evil? Which your experience? I have found that they all have pretty much the same personality. Okay. And it's, I'm gonna bite anything I think is food, and I think everything is food until I've been convinced that it's not. Right. Once I have them out, they're all chilled and fine. But it's getting them to that point. And I've seen, you know, like Adam had that video go viral of his spotted python trying to eat him. Yeah. There's that thing, I've never had that happen to me, but that happens too. So, I guess everything's food until I decide that it's not, and then maybe it still is. But they're not like, they don't do the walnut thing, right? Where they're just like, you're holding them and everything is great and then all of a sudden they're just like, you know, like they're gonna start chomping you. I haven't experienced that with them. I haven't experienced it either, but that's, that's what Adam's little, uh, That's what it did, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just trying to eat his fingers. It's like, hmm, is this food? I mean, it's, I think certain pythons are just always like that because baby olives will do the same thing. We'll just be like food and it's just like, yeah, and then they'll stop and be like, well, what about food? And it's just constantly trying and it's just so weird to have such a tiny little python be like the, like, you just go right for it. So, but yeah, talk about it perfect for, for a naturalistic display. You get a 36 by 18 by 18 exo Terra, do a cool background on it with a bunch of rock stacks. Oh, yeah. I think this is, yeah, it'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We really cool. I'm thinking, that's what I'm gonna do, event. That's my goal eventually. And with a, like that, with a pigment, you could go even smaller, maybe. Yeah, you know, it's smaller with the egg. Yeah, even less. Like, you know, by four would be like having its own, you know, yard. Yeah, it's a man. Yeah. And you can like take pictures of what we found and just put that as the background. Oh, Eric, you should just do that. And you know, the other thing is it's like, I do love big snakes. But man, what hassle. Come on. Yeah. You know, I mean, it can be, you can get old sometimes, you know, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. And then you have an idiot like me who's like, I have a door. It would be fun. And then it's like, why would I? You didn't even get the black head. What are you doing? It's like, I'm trying to be an idiot. It's why I got to get you to be like, I need you to take one pair of my olive bite down. So I can maybe be like, I have two open cages at a door. Like it's how big of a cage do I need? You need an eight footer for the female six for the male. So I need two eight footers. Yeah, you do that. Okay. All right. I'll find the gun to kill him. You know, I guess the hell button's going to kill him. Yeah. Like, oh. But yeah, I'm with you, Ben. I would like to do more entourage of shows that sort of get people to be excited. He's allowed one per season. So this is the one. That's not true. And that's unfortunate now. Of course, I say that and I have no say in what is booked or how it goes. He just tells me and I show up. This is what we're doing. We could just do all entries here for the rest of the season now because of that comment. So I would like to talk to some more people in Australia to see some of the cool, you know, the projects that they got. Even if it's just locality, I think they're, um, didn't Peter Birch have like a melanistic one that was from an island or something like that? There is one. I don't know. I don't know if I'm sure Peter has. He's got them all, right? Yeah. Yeah. Which ever reminded me, um, Justin has some melanistic eastern stimpsons. I saw that on a Saturday other day. I know. I don't ever remember him talking to me about that, but I asked him about it and it sounds like it's like an increased melanin gene thing. Like where they hatch out looking normal and they get darker over time. We don't know anything about that. We don't have any of those. And it's nothing we know of. I made, I made, I broke my rule. I started talking about it and you cannot believe my inbox. I was talking about it on, uh, we should, they would show pictures. We showed pictures. Didn't we? No, but people over, you know, they're, they're texting me wanting to see pictures of it. And I sent it to them. They're like, what? I've seen them all in person. You're going to have to send me some pictures. Okay. I will do that. Yeah. You'll appreciate them. And I guess I better throw this out there too whenever I mentioned a Gerard Bosch that I was going to be on. He said to ask for a poison ivy, baby for him. Yes. You can't put somebody else's name on the wait list. This is, this is highly irregular. You know, I say all the time. Obviously the people that are passionate about, uh, popling carpets. That's going to be the people. So if you want to mean like, you want poison ivy babies, you should flood Eric's inbox with pictures of your own popling carpets. Stop it. No. You are a true believer. And then he will bestow on upon thee. Yeah. I will not. No. No. That is not correct. That's incorrect. This man does not speak for me. Um, but not it's it that. That'll be cool. I enjoy, I think, I think Eric getting success with that and putting them out into the world to be fun to see the poison ivy babies spread around. You know, I'm hoping that happens and I don't have to like. Deal with them upon his like you get hit by a boss and I'm like, I don't, I. I told her not to give them to you. I mean, the project would there be dead. Dory, not, not you know, you can, you can, you can prove me wrong this, this season. You got one week, my friend. One more week. And maybe you'll maybe. Yep. And then I will have my, would it be a son of a bitch if, if I didn't die and Owen takes over the project? Son and he's the boy's night. He's cranking out like. Yeah. He dances popling carpets. Yeah. I've always been popling carpets guy. Yeah. I knew I was going to kill that Eric. I forgot to say this. I had to say this though. So when we were on the trap talk, right? You're telling the story at the beginning about how you're like, you said something like. How we met. Yeah. And I'm like, well, the whole idea was I was going to get close to Eric and kill him because he was. And he was like, why are you enjoying that? I was like, why is Owen so funny? Anyway, sorry, Ben. Yeah, I'm glad to share that. Ben, do you have a working people contact you, toss your stuff out there like, you know, basically check up with you at the end of the season. If you got some cool a Theresa pop wins inlands, anything else you're cooking that we don't know about? Yeah, you could look me up at Nicholson herpet culture on Instagram and Facebook. Instagram is probably the best place to go. Yeah. Or, you know, just my name on Facebook. Cool. I put the link in the show notes too for people. I want to check it out. Ben, always a pleasure. Yeah. Appreciate you coming on. Yeah. Appreciate it, guys. Look forward to seeing what you do the season. And this is good. I can warn Ben. If I grant it, man, holy help. This is going to get more than if I do get an Theresa. I will be bothering you about babies if I have. have problems like that. All right. So all right. Cool. Cool. All right, man. All right. Yeah. Well, we'll end it there. And yeah. All right. Can you take us out? Go ahead. Oh, yeah. OK. Health. Sure. You can go to the Patreon. You can go to the-- I guess the Patreon. And then the website is still being constructed. It's constructed with the health come on. So let me talk about that real quick. See, all right. Never mind. Take it away. Website. Yeah. So what we're trying to do at the NPR network is kind of have a hub where we're all-- I feel like sometimes we're kind of like separated out. We want the love that people are giving to-- Well, we're trying to make a community. Yeah. That's not it. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm trying to bring the NPR world and the CCR world and the Reptile Fight Club is our world too. It is. All together, you know what I mean? And make a big community. So the idea was, is that we needed a place where everybody could go that was kind of a central hub. So that's what we're working on right now. It's going to be blog, store, you know, the web that podcast, talk all about the guests. Patreon's things are bad. Stuff like that. So it's going to be a place where you could go and then filter out into the Reptile world with the people. We're talking about Adden Turtle Show. We're talking about Adden, a ball python show. We're talking about Adden. What was some of the other one? Another lizard show. General information show. We're looking for like a point of view from girls in herp to culture. What else? I would like to do like maybe a business type of thing. I don't know. We're trying to see-- First bit ball in it, you know. We'll figure it out as we go. But-- 2026's are growing year. Yes. Yes. So we'll figure all that. And we'll touch back on that. I don't know. I think I got a show coming up at the end of March. So I'll talk more details as we get closer. And then, yeah, that's it. Check out all our social media for various things, breeding successes, failures, all that fun stuff. And we'll catch everybody back here next time for some more Merleaf Python video. Good night.