ANSIEDADE CLIMÁTICA

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"Aquecimento, fervura, crise, cataclysm, colapso" Para no ar a sentiment that the world is in flames, but we continue to buy new ones, and goals, and cell phones, and importing superfluous things from the other side of the world. It seems like in the place of systemic changes, everything we can produce is to blame others or to feel overloaded by the magnitude of the problem. On the one hand, there's a very strong negotiation, as we know, that the crisis is going to be over. On the other hand, it seems to exist a bridge in Catastrophe, in a destructive way, almost empty, let's move to the end. 40°C in England, 48°C in Italy, 49°C in India, 53°C in the Valley of Morton in California. According to the National National Oceanic and Atmosphere, the month of August of 2023, has been pointed out as much as the fifth of the history of the world. According to Lancet's report, in the last 20 years, the increase of mortality related to the excessive heat grew 54%. We receive daily news about signs, events, events, tornadoes, heat waves, pollution in the air, and a sequence, more and more frequent of extreme events, that affect lives and communities. Although environmental effects of this all have been recognized for a long time, it seems that little attention has been given to the impact of our emotional state. According to the public study, also in Lancet, 45% of 10,000 young people in 10 countries say that their feelings about climatic changes affect their daily life negatively. It comes out like this, all a new vocabulary of suffering. Ecosidate, eco-coupa, eco-psychology, lutecological, solar energy, bio-physical concern, climatic traumas, ecophobia and, of course, climatic anxiety. Between 2017 and 2022, 3,000,000 Brazilian people were affected directly or directly by relationships related to the strong rains. In these cases, more than half of this happened only in the past year. We had a tropical cyclone, extremely intense, which created a state of calamity in Rio Grande do Sul. And in Libya, a tragic action generated more than 20,000 deaths. No one can deny that the health of the planet is affecting our physical health, but then how does this affect our mental health? Hi, I'm André Alves. I'm Lucas Lidic and this is Vibes Analysis and a podcast where we seek to analyze some Vibes that are sub-mercised in the collective unconscious and in the psychopsych stratosphere. Lucas and I are psychoanalysts and researchers, and our analysis are on the profile @flutevibes on Instagram, on TikTok and on our newsletter. And if you want to help us to maintain this podcast, you can make a contribution to the support. All the links are here in the description of the episode. It's good to remember that Vibes Analysis is in a partnership with Elevary Online 2. So many of the books that we have written here are sold in 2.com/flutevibes. And you can buy with discount using our coupon "flutevibes", the link is also here in the description. So let's go. André, would you say that you're already suffering or do you think it will suffer from climatic anxiety? With certainty, they are already suffering. We already have certainty that they are suffering. Well, the answer is already known. I suffer and I believe that much more people than I imagine also pass through some kind of anxiety related to climatic issues. I think that there is a vibe that the air is breathable, the heat is supportive, while the level of lucros, the combustible forces and the climate action are unacceptable. But I would like to warn you that this is not an episode about the catastrophe. In which we will only talk about numbers, cases and facts, many assessors, and that leave us extremely depressed or apathetic. But this is also not an episode of going all right, everything is right, and our channels of metal will save the world. Because it also does not allow this direction. So you think that we can reach some good vibes today? I think more than we can tolerate the value of vibes when we are talking about climatic crisis, okay? I went to study the work of some psychoanalysts and psychiatrists who are working on the interception between mental and my environment. Besides these works, I was thinking about how the analysis has exactly this power of helping us break the negation, of working with a struggle, of provoking transformations of our ability to think, of sustaining inclusive, of feelings that the analysis promotes in us. And consequently baning some conversations about very insoluble parts and even supportive of life. That's why I'm talking about tolerating already elongated ambivalence. It's as if the psychoanalytic matrix was extremely appropriate for us to deal with climatic cataclysm. Because there are many of these goals that are mobilized in this topic. Why? Let's go. There are some studies appearing about these impacts of the climatic disease. And then, in terms of stress, anguish, sorrow, even depression, clear stress, post-traumatic, in communities of people who passed through some kind of these extreme events. And maybe one of the references that has helped me more to think about this topic is the meaning of melancholia, life in the era of perplexity of Christopher Bolas, the British psychoanalyst. He helps us to use psychoanalysis tools to think about what are the psychoanalysts that are in the world as a whole. Almost the pacient world or the pacient culture. And then, there's that part of the work of Bolas, which you know I like a lot. I've already brought you several episodes, which is that idea of when a subject is in a crisis. And then, that other book of it, "Catch them before they fall, peggerous, before they fall". After that, we have this idea that when someone is crossing some kind of collapse or break down, it is also an attempt of the subject to make some kind of breakthrough or through. That's why we have to respect a symptom, and that's why we have to respect a crisis, and that's why our work as a journalist also is to deepen paradoxes. For those who know, we can take advantage of these moments, so serious, painful and severe, to promote some kind of dissentment, which will bring a great change, a great transformation in the ability to think, or a catastrophic change, as Zubion says. Why am I mobilizing these concepts so complicated, in a long time? Because I think that exactly in this place that we are as humanity. It seems that we are accelerating our break down, in a expectation that who knows, we can get out of this with a breakthrough. Who knows, we can get out of this collapse with some kind of delay and dissentment, in ways of living, which don't make any sense anymore. There is a middle-generation feeling of discrepancy in humanity. This is something that we know that grew up a lot after the pandemic, it has already existed, the essence of the relationship with the future, of the humanity, at some point. And a feeling that there are many things wrong and tragic happening at the same time, generating a perception of catastrophe, it is complicated that we are knowing of everything very quickly. So, perception also becomes more tragic. And at the same time, it also becomes easy to normalize the effects of these news, because they come intercalated in a quite schizophrenic way, together with other content of photos and videos of our friends, or curtain a party, and suddenly a tragic news comes, everything very accelerated, being disturbing, in a semantic cadence, like that of completely disconnecting information. One of the effects of this infodemium, which is a term that emerged with more force in the pandemic, when we were being disturbed and invaded, so many news information that is already afraid, that is already anxiety, it can be a certain attachment, a torpor, emotional extension, even because the internet, as we know, has a power to destroy our scale sense of importance of things. And when everything becomes urgent, nothing is urgent. As a defense mechanism, we can be more insensitive, even disaffected, as a method of reaction from self-protection. So we will naturalize the absurdity to maintain a certain mental state and continue to flow, maintain our mental health, so you stay thinking about this global environment every day, it will not be good. But there is an effect in general, which is even more unconscious than conscious, and this chronic fear, sometimes even irrational, sometimes exaggerated, of what can happen in the future. I remember that concept of "Berardian", which is "Eliminism Obscuro", which is certainly very radical about the future, the future is no longer what it was. One of the answers we see is that people don't want to have children anymore, because they are afraid of what this new generation will suffer until the end of this century, which will have to do to save the world. It is interesting that you brought, for me, two conflict psychics of the moment that we were living. Starting with this description that you were doing what I like called climatic apathy. As a psychic mechanism, very useful for us to think about this crisis. Thinking about apathy as that kind of internal death, as if we let it be seen by the other, as if we accept a certain statement, a disengagement, a corrosion of itself. Apathy is a kind of vertigo, that feeling of an imminent abyss, so it is not worth investing or simply anything, or at least the majority of things that are in our surroundings, in relationships, in objects, anyway. Apathy climatic, I think, as if it were accepted, an internal death of the planet. A conformism that leaves this feeling of terror inside us, and that even disinvestes us, not only this question, but also other questions that are linked to some kind of empathy, or the same disengagement. But when we talk mainly about young people, which is this pressure that you brought, the feeling is very distant from apathy, I think. It is much more in the field of anxiety, anxiety as that inflammation that makes the fear come to our surroundings or in all places. There are many interesting studies about how a young population has faced these issues, and this absence of future. We are right now in the beginning of this episode, this research is published in Lancet. And there are many pretty impressive numbers, which 59% of the young people from 16 to 25 years, from these 10 countries, have been very concerned with all this matter, and 75% think the future is scared. 83% think that people are not taking care of the planet. Most of these young people feel attracted to their governments or governments. There is a belief in the institutions that could be protecting us and protecting the environment for a long time. In Brazil, it is quite bizarre, we have scenes like these days, the video of Ricardo Salis, the minister of the environment, so much incentive for the dismantling and agro-toxic use, and this is the video of his organic watch. And then, to think about it, as a environmental crisis, there is a similar model of political polarization that we have seen today, in this case, so concerned about the discrepancy of the media, to think that all the data that I don't want to believe is false or manipulated. And then, who can we trust? To Uno, who can't trust? To MS, who can't trust? No, I'm going to conform to my group of trust in WhatsApp. At least they don't lie to me, or they tell me the lie that I wanted to hear. There are some psychoanalysts and psychologists who are depressed for a certain time, in this question of how we explain the psychic origins of climatic negation. This vibe doesn't look up to him sitting in that movie that caused a lot of discussion. Which is very related to that idea, a more English psychoanalyst, of how to lie is a protective psychic content, which defines us of some kind of psychic change that we don't want to face. So it's more what defines us from the truth. The lie impede that we have to do some kind of genocide, or elasticity, psychic to expand our capacity of absorption and transformation of the content. You understand? But I want to insist on what you said about the young people. Because there is this last book by Leanne Brum, "Banzero O'Cottor", about the experience that she is experiencing since she was living in Altamira, which Leanne Brum describes as the center of the world. A very important point in the Amazon, for us to understand what will happen, what is happening with the rest of the planet. She even says that the company should be covering the Amazon at the same point as the one in Brazil, because the negationism is much more broad than it seems. It's like it's our house, the planet is burning, but we keep sitting on the surface of the television. Think about that image with me. The house is in flames, and we are on the surface of the television. It seems to me that much of that "design" of the dog. As soon as the house is falling on his head, it's all right. Let's continue here. In some of the interviews about the book she gave, she says about how perhaps this is the first generation of pilots, in which the pilots are trying to protect the world of destruction while adults continue promoting this destruction. A very radical inversion, and that has a tremendous subjective impact, that we are not getting tired because it is even more frightening. This frightening idea that you believe that there is something very severe, that has to be done, and then there is a large population. Generally, it should be very difficult in the future of the next generations, which follow the path. There is a very obvious factor, also that the children of the teenagers will live longer to see all this happen. Now this pressure that they will have to concert the errors in the previous generations is very unfair, uncertain. Even because who will have to dance this climatic dance? We are all of us. I'm using this word dance, because for many scientists and activists, we learned, during the pandemic, to dance with coronavirus. Open, close, and that this dance with the virus also was a way of us to prepare, or also an event that served to start, to prepare for the climatic in your state, a little more advanced. And there is all this sense of colativity, of something that is a phenomenon planetary, but that generates a sense of impotence, also makes us feel very small. It fascinates us, it scares us, it makes us feel safe, and we sometimes don't want to believe it, because we don't know how it will react when it happens. And then you will, I don't know if you agree with me, but it seems that there are great two answers, quite opposed to before this fear. On one hand, as we begin to say, there is the negation of reality, there is alienation, a trust in any factor of the provisions, to believe in everything that can be justified in our children, that has to be maintained in the words, because there is also the negation of the help, the ego does not have to be afraid, or guilty, or responsibility, by what is happening, or by what will happen. The other answer, which is also not very good, is paranoia absolute. It is catastrophicism, infotainment, doom scrolling, it is an obsession to be more and more very informed with a behavior that becomes obsessive, or compulsory rituals, and that becomes very anguish, because we will not be able to get changes very deep and systemic from one day to another. The part of the problem is that we can adapt, we can't live with fear for a long time. But this adaptation, at the same time, is being destroyed. The climatic changes are very slow in a human scale, so we will be using a new normal species, and there is something about having to really live on the skin to be able to take the consciousness of gravity. Is it the ideal answer to all this? It is anxiety. Well, the climatic anxiety is different from many kinds of anxiety that we treat in therapy, because the goal is not necessarily to resolve the intrusive feeling and leave it on the side. When we manage the anxiety in the clinic, many times the anxiety is disproportionate, or it is actually happening without much burden, in reality. The question is that the climatic anxiety is a little different from that. Mainly because as you said, the effects can even be more long-term, but there are extreme events that end up crossing many of us, and making us confront with a real love that leaves a very deep wound. So, now, how much will these extreme events be related to this phenomenon, which is part of scientific community, to the point that it is happening, it will happen, but there are many possible interpretations. There is a whole discussion about the controversies about the psychology of research and previews, or even the question of the importance of the term "medication of temperature". How long does a systematic collection of data to be able to do these comparisons and projections? How do we believe that the temperature was measured in a correct way, at 100 or 200 years ago? Then scientists will talk about the rings of the trees, the socioeconomic sediments to make these medicines more ancient, and this generates some debates, because there are other factors that influence the temperature, the various solar, volcanic eruptions, and then people sometimes live in a colder winter and begin to say, "Ah, global warming, it's a good weather". But climate and weather are different, climate is this long-term, and the weather will bring some events that can be related in some way, but not, and then it will be pushed a little to the side to believe or to believe, but not only in the facts, but in the ideologies that are behind these facts. And all the systems that exist there? And we're talking about how you're talking about climate, fossil fuel, gas emissions, fuel effects. What are we going to do with this? What are we going to do with this? And leaving many people in an obsession for meteorology, which is something that grew quickly in the last years with more sophisticated applications, super attractors with graphics and things that even wake up dopamine in us every moment. You are following what happens with more precision, but we have to remember that how much this precision has existed before too. So there is a means of activism to live this with more intensity. Yeah. What's going on in these two pedals? A pedal is what it says and what it takes, and the second pedal being what it produces in us. And on the first part, there is this scientist who is one of the most influential in climate discussion, who wrote a fascinating book of the last years, which is the Denil Climate War, the new climate war. The point is very incisive about how the negation of global warming, global fervor, and consequences that come from there, and how the climate events are in any way linked to a systemic thought, is a result of one of the most financed and organized campaigns related to history. Which is a great articulation between the industry of fossil fuels, the conservative politicians, and the communication vehicles. It is a human that brings all the archaeology of, as for example, the British Petroleum is one of the responsives for all the campaign together with a carbon-produced fuel. That is, you get one of the biggest actors in the promotion of this catastrophe we are talking about. You exempt this actor from his responsibility, because it transfers to the individual's business, as the liberalism does, as well as the costs. The question is who will take these shots, we are all ours. And there is no general balance, while we will try to decide who will save it, if it is Bill Gates, Agreta Thamberg, Willumas, Kuayutun Krenak, figures like Ricardo Salles that you brought, go passing the bubble. What this produces, according to Man, is such a dangerous threat as the negation, which is the nation, or the nationalist, which is the idea that there is nothing to do. So, it is better if we feel a kind of disengagement. It will last a little. This is especially popular among people, a little older, even this is a very curious number. This narrative is too late. So, it is better if we take good intentions, change the desire, and transform that into disillusion and despair. What is the catastrophism of what you were talking about? It is like the narrative of the end of the world was one of the narratives that has more to do with it today. By the logic of the psychoanalysis, we know that humans are equally capable of destroying the soul, aerositans, which is the place that exists within us every day. If many times we search for a conflict and even deny the fear, we also have this capacity to replace the fear of the outside by the desire of the previous anguish. The threats are becoming so large that they will be enabling our conflicts with the infantis, and we feel even more indefeasible, more lost, more angused, more angry. We feel protected without anything to do. If we take the future of illusion, if we take a step into civilisation, these social networks are so important, we know that manipulations from the first are always easier than controlling the engagement. Winativism is a master's goal. It is a very well-designed product developed. It is almost like a consistent catastrophysicism. We hope that it will end. We will exerce a slightly funny function with the end of everything. And that makes us, in fact, do not leave the couch, continue to watch the television while everything falls back. There is also a question that is also important to think. There is something in this fucking movie where it seems like a conspirator. But I am with you when we, to think that it is necessary to recognize a record of social classes in this story. The marginalized populations suffer a lot more than the oppressions and the insecurity of this climate crisis. We have to remember that as many movies we have not seen of some rich people who went to live in green colonies and luxurious spaces while the earth turned into a pandemic, taking the fire. There is a mentalist who has a lot of affection, that says so. The peripheries and communities, traditional Brazilians, already need to deal with the lack of water, basic sanitation, demarcation of their lands, racism and insecurity. In addition to these thousand problems, they are still the ones who suffer the most with the impacts of climate crisis. So, is this story that we are in a tempestate, is everyone in the same boat? No, there are people who are on the ship and there are people who are tired. Perfect. And there is a term for this. Which is the environmental racism. It is about the environmental justice and a racialized context. So, how do communities of ethnic minorities will be systematically subjected to the situations of environmental degradation? Yes, ethnic minorities, who are majority, but are minority when we are talking about power and income. It is perfect that you are looking for, Lucas, because we need to think that there is a new vocabulary that we need to incorporate these discussions. I think you touched on one of the three terms that are very fundamental for the next few years. Which is, you said, environmental racism, but that is very encouraged in environmental justice, in environmental injustice. Which is this concept relatively old, but ironically very urgent. How do we face global climate change and climate crisis from an ethical, political and social point of view? Which is, of course, if individuals of society are benefited from prejudices by climate crisis in the same way, who will be responsible and who will be penalized? This is the discussion of the cloud in the last meeting of the year. This is a whole question that has happened inside the G20, for example, in the scope, and so on. But there is another term that also is in this cauldron that is the climate violence, which is exactly a product of such a disbalanced equation, which is, generally, the result of a collision between climate conditions, extreme and social realities very precarious. The reactions to these events will not always be empathy and nativism etc. The poverty, the negligence of the state, this abandonment also produce a lot of violent realities. We are seeing this in the culture of mass, even. We have a little more pacifist postures than Greenpeace, for example, during decades, going to a place of disobedience and the radical appearance of Stinction Rebellion, which is an organization that is dressed as the Greenpeace in 2020. And then it comes to a very strong conversation about environmental crimes and about environmental criminals. Even this vibe of ecossabotage that has happened, you know, the violence and all the museums, the climatic activists, attacking art works inside great institutions, in a very violent way. But in this case of climatic criminals, maybe it is one of the most interesting things that we have in the common culture. There is this group of young activists, called climate defiance, which is almost the disasters of the climate, and that make almost every day expositions or exposures of executive, of large companies, mainly from companies of fossil fuel, to expose these people and treat them in public opinion as people who deserve to be punished, because they are promoting some kind of robbery in our future. There are also those guys that we met together from Client Earth or Client Terra, which is basically an organization that uses, above all, juridical procedures to make justice against large organizations, especially again as fossil fuels. They started, including processing the BP, British Petroleum, one of the greatest polluters of the planet. They made a series of reports offering many companies that practice greenwashing or green washing. So, do you understand what I'm talking about? Do you have a force that is linked to this climate violence that will appear or that will gain a little more contour? Which are more extreme reactions to events that are more and more extreme. So, what will this be doing? I'm doing it with our mental health. And then, to learn more about this topic, let's hear the Analysed Farias. She has a very interesting training, because she is a psychoanalyst, master in environmental geology and doctorate in environment and development. The author of the book "Psychanalyses" and the environment and several other articles about this topic. To talk about it, it's a university. First, it is necessary to situate that the place is located inside our time. And our time is passed. It is marked by a environmental crisis. And what is this crisis? This crisis is a psychological catastrophe that has the registration of current scientific evidence and that is happening in the whole world. That is, there is a destruction of all that, of all systems that have been sustained in the planet. And this crisis, this catastrophe, is exposed in a brutal way to the constitution of a large mass of the social system, therefore, entrelaça, exclusion, violence and environmental destruction in an inexperienced way. And the climate changes in my understanding is one of the easiest, the most perverse of this crisis. Because there is a destruction not only physical but psychic. Always present. And what happens in different places over different contexts? So, it is not an environment that is in crisis but, like, a mode of being a collective lifestyle, that is, our subjectivity in terms of civilization. We naturalized a strange world, a hierarchy. It is a world where people die in contaminated leaves, die of hunger, live in extreme situations, like wars, like climate events, destroyers, avatars, which is the existence of the market of animals, of people, even water. And while this, we follow. Follow without being responsible without any responsibility for some of these circumstances. So, we can say that environmental crisis is homologous to what Freud defined as "syntoma", because it expels a truth about the subject and interrogates the sense of our civilization. It has the character, repetitive of the symptom, its multiplicity of causes, about the determination and ambiguity. So, it allows this biology. And these physical elements of the symptom in a deeper analysis, they are present in ecological disasters, in the development projects, and even in the view of how it was possible for everyone. That is, there is a solution of commitment to the economic system to maintain everything as it is. And the consciousness, it is a manifestation of all this. So, it is far beyond its discursive definition of being a reaction to the fear of the possible consequences that the current of destruction, social and environmental, caused by these climatic changes, do you know? It is fruit of this crisis scenario, of this arrangement. And I think it is very important that this can be noticed. Because we know that the capitalist system is appropriate for all forms of suffering and take it as a product to be commercialized. You have a climatic age. So, now, is the concept of your doctor? It is terrible, isn't it? I see that the psychic responses are very related to fear. Fear, as a very strong affect, fear that can also happen, also in power, the feeling of disampage. And also, the feeling of failure, mainly because in your directly in the environmental issue, because taking into account the failure of social structures and then, in a way, when this suffering explodes, a psychic pact, of everyone who is in this front line, especially when we are talking about young people. Also, there is a new inculcation of people who are in a situation of vulnerability, environmental. People who lost everything, that is, as in the case of Rio Grande do Su, now very recent, or by a project of a great barrage as a beautiful mountain. And then, everything can happen. So melancholy, suicide, compulsions, apathy, in both of the most legacy people, yes, we can talk about this way, we can say that there is a knowledge of the dimension of what we are crossing in environmental destruction. And if we see, too, the question of the fake news that follow about this, then follow the words of the way like sustainable development, sustainability, people get glued to this meaning, adjusting behaviors in the material. So, the imagination is restricted. We get the difficulty to imagine the possibility of coming out different. Until then, because you are following the path determined by the system of "Vigente Entente", then think that the strategy is following the direction of the cure, as we read with a symptom in analysis. You are giving another sense to what was said in the right way, in your speech, interrogating if there are no other possibilities. And the end of analysis is this dissentment. So, in order for this civilization to be possible, I understand what is around there. We go interrogating, everything that the system itself puts and it is a dismal fight. Titanic. Yes. I agree that these spider effects mainly have some segments and I would say that they even transborder them. So, when we were talking about apathy, fear, disampage and even adversity, because we have many examples that the previous government or the current offers us, like the genocide or the mum and even the incendiary of important biomes that occur in all countries during the year of 2021. And the negationism about this aspect is another chapter because it is still going to be part of all of us in terms of life, when we talk about an environment that is a risk to everyone. And when that comes to official speech that authorizes ignorance. And see, so, the consequences of climatic changes are devastating but the effect is the occurrence of the deep alterations, physical, chemical, biological, that the planet is suffering. There are products that we call contaminants for our good. Of course, an irony, right? Sodorants, creams, conservatives, without talking about agrotoxic, which contaminates the eternal milk, something more surreal than that. Plastic, everything, even in the human blood, and in Europe, and in the United States, there are already all about the contamination of the water for heroin, cocaine, antidepressants, and that we are not even talking about the effects, of the form, lack of discernment. There is a lot of legal thing happening outside of the capitalist thinking circuit that can have very interesting consequences. The question is how to change your mind to all of this. So, it may seem a bit cliché, but the critical reading of this scenario passes through a good job that social networks can do. I feel a lot of existence in the psychoanalytic center, even because it is difficult to articulate the psychoanalysis in my environment. It is difficult for people to understand that we are moved by the principle of the read of the pleasure. And then Freud is so brilliant in a culture state when he catches that we were in front of the expression of death, which was the annihilation of the human species. So, I can say, this is also my place of being a scientist, that there is evidence, contundents of what we are walking for this. And the psychoanalysis teaches us that we should never underestimate the power of death by the contrary, if we don't know what to do with her, she will talk to us. But I am not pessimistic. We need to recover the capacity of dreaming new futures which is not the destruction. The crises are always the opportunity to destroy assumptions, to break naturalizations, to move reading, make a subversion, that is, a new version of the truth that is exposed. And the power of the psychoanalysis is precisely in this, which is to offer conditions so that there is a certain connection. We can do this and it's hard to open to other ways of living possible when we relate to the environment, which is different from those that in the private lives as much as the presence of others as the experience of sharing the world. It's very interesting to listen to Analyzette. The first thing I thought was "What will Freud describe about the environmental crisis based on a civilization?" But it's quite good this perspective of her climate crisis as she takes. Above all, if we think in this angle of trying to reveal a truth about the collective subject, it's also very good when she pushes this idea of failure and to take it to be the failure of social structures, something that we, as a subject, has made a lot in modernity. Do you know that I thought, Lucas, in the case of those bombs that worked incredibly in Australia, in Canada and in Hawaii? In this year there are a lot of interviews on these incidences on the forests. It's something very impressive and of an order to disobey a lot of great people. Because they describe that the work on these lines in front is not necessarily end with incidences, much for the contrary, because it is impossible to fight against the size and magnitude of the problem, that the work on them in that sense is to choose what we are going to leave here. Who are we going to leave here? And that obviously the traumatic stress of these situations is the order of the invisible. And I found it very good how the analysis provokes to think about how there are a lot of incidences within my psychoanalytic cycle, to talk about my environment or to think about the same acclimatical therapy between experts, because it is a difficult articulation. But again, if we get an obstacle in the culture of Freud, we know there is a city in the suffering. The way we suffer is intimately linked to our time. And in an optical illusion of a more transgenerational psychoanalysis, it is also linked to the chaotic content and unconsciousness that were transmitted by the previous generations. So in this optical illusion, it is as if we had some very elaborate environmental traumas that we are carrying, or trying to elaborate. I really agree, André, and I am thinking that there is even such a real and material aspect in this subject, in this episode. Which is different from we think about the challenges of human relations, for example, or these sufferings that are more linked to the small one, or the world things of our individual life. We are talking about a suffering that is related to humanity. So it is a type of evil star that maybe has been lived, even, I think in several moments, but certainly in the first World War, which was a big bug in the whole world, a moment of radical despair, of disappointment with the proper species, and that it was inclusive when Freud elaborated the concept of dead pulsing. So this climatic evolution of today disrespects something very giant, which is in the course, and that we don't know where it will go, or worse, we know, but many of us don't want to believe. And so we are creating almost micro-realities in our mind, to try to outline, without necessarily repriming the subject completely, but being able to deal with it, because this question is so big, so intense and brutal, which seems to be more for our psyche. And the question is, is it possible for us to think in a planet that it is not, but so sacred for a capitalist, strategist, and for the industrial society, what we hear from talking about is that this global warming is the waste made in the climate by anthropocene, anthropocene being this geological time marked by an irreversible alteration, of biophysics processes in a planetary scale. And all of this is linked to human activities, including rural expansion, urban, and all these strange things that have been shown in a scale unfortunately much more exponential than what was imagined. With certain crazy things, and then we can think in what are the costs of this both for us and for the planet. While you were talking, you were remembering the era and civilization and the man of a single dimension, two works of Herbert Markus and that philosopher and sociologist Le Mans, in which he speaks of modernity as this period of domestication radical of the body, of the body that will be domesticated so that we can produce and it is a grit reduction of our body dimensions. And then, through this idea of a reduction of the body dimensions of the human body and also of the planet body, as if both our body, as much as the planetary body have just the service of all the performance of the production, but as a great journalist I know, the body has rights, even rights to rebel. For us to think about the global river, also as a form of rebellion of the body of the earth, almost a reaction to the antropocene. "Main earth is broken." "The body of the main earth is broken." And then what is our role, or our power to influence the situation in this planet that is so macro, because then, obviously, we are talking about questions of public politics or of great transformations that need to happen by the private sector, everyone knows, renewable energy and technological innovations, recycling refluxion, processing water, new ways of doing what was always done. But we've been living like this for over 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, and the father continues to do the same. Like that, sustainability. ESG, let's see these, we've seen these terms like this, and it all seems like a kind of market share, collaborative, a lot of green watching. And the big problem is that the understanding of consciousness and individual activity is very important, as long as it is subject, as long as it is data, as long as it is consumer, consumer, but it is a very riskary effect compared to the big years, industrial, and these small actions seem very small. And we are very uncomfortable in getting used to these big destructive actions of the practices, industrial systems that we live and how things work, but we will have to really overcome this phase of some kind, and even if the impact of our actions is little considered individually, it can have a positive effect for our consciousness, that we are at least in some way being mobilized. Everything is absolutely systemic. We have to have more this look, that everything affects everything. So don't you think, for example, I'll buy a condition, because of the heat, and stay working at home to measure your two. Because maybe the climate has destroyed the health of the year and there is no more food. And then it's more important to have another place, understand? This look of things are very systemic, we put it in a position that we need more commanding, more institutions, more innovations that help us choose the best. And it would give us better behavior, because many times we don't know what to do. And we just need to continue following what is being discussed, which is very important, but also many times we just leave us anxious. Flanista has all the discussion of what Belém will be the chosen city to be a COP in 2025 and what the climate of the year will be. What would be very interesting in the area, quite propitious, Brazil has such a wonderful potential for green energy, and we really need to do more of that. You were talking about systemic solutions, Lucas, and I was remembering the complexity and maybe one of the fundamental parts of us able to deal with this complexity is some kind of struggle that we will have to do. Because we know the future of illusion, Freud, raiz, to think about how we are humans, we are in a way to create and to believe in illusions. But at the same time, there are some of the illusions that we cover in this story of the climate city, or some mechanisms that we use as a defense to deal with the climate city, that we will have to fight. Because probably the conversations will be a little more serious. I wanted to paint a scene in your head. Just in me or all of you? Let's go. We're ready. Imagine you feel so hot that it is impossible for you to sleep. Then you take your sun off to the earth, and try to sleep in the open sky. Now imagine that your neighbors had the same idea. The cities' terraces are empty of cushions, empty bodies and suns. A hot wave that makes it impossible to walk under the sun during the day. Just give it to you if you see it at night or in the shade. The noise of the air-conductor walls is almost absurd. It is as if the city turns a big engine, trying to take advantage of these high temperatures. But there are many walls, and then the energy system comes to talk. Then they enter into several diesel and gasoline generators to try to maintain the air-conductor walls. The weight of any of them has already been announced with a clean energy matrix. The only solution is to seek refreshment in the rivers and beaches that are crowded. But the water temperature will also be in support. It is able to literally close the human bodies. It is hot, too. What I described is the first chapter of the Ministry of the Future, a book by King Sterling Robinson, which was released in 2020, and which became a great hit of the Clifai, which is Climate Change Science Fiction. It is a scientific fiction about climate change, a literary and fictional genre that has grown more and more every time. Each page is a non-hungry page, a very large number of people need to do something, because this is a little bit of the role of fiction writers, which is able to imagine some scenarios. And it is also able to reflect on how it is no longer a matter of IC, but when and how we will deal with the consequences of these scenarios. In the book, Robinson says that many journalists, specialists in climate change are treating, which is how the last 30 years showed us that we are a little bit able to deal with the problem size, and that we will have to record the options, very little animators, if you ask me. For example, in January, and a radical change with landscapes. Technological solutions, like the dark sun. Drenasca, Polaris Lotto. Establish literature of carbon with very authoritarian sanctions for countries and companies that were a little bit more and responsible in relation to this subject. The energy to nuclear power will be one of the only ways to end with fossil fuels or leave everything on the way to the collapse. But I found it interesting that you were talking about recycling, about the attitudes that we can have. And at the same time, these great questions, which are very serious and complicated questions, need to start entering the stage with a little more frequency, because maybe one of the things that we have more to fight here is that the solutions that we use in the last 30 years are the solutions that we can deal with this problem. This is the use of more backstage than we can find, understand? Yes, Andrea has a lot of things, even to be invented. And in this sense, we can also think that there is an anxiety that is good. I think it's a good logic for us to think here. In some way, the lack of anxiety is something positive and that it is good for the planet. Maybe it's already a geological concept, some suffering for the subject. But it can also be that kind of functional concern that makes us more active, or more precaved, more attentive, more curious about what is happening, who knows what is more responsible, for what is at least in our individual field. It is a bit of a difference between normal and supposed neurotic anxiety. Normally, when there is, in fact, a specific threat, then we have to defend ourselves. And we need this discomfort to be able to take attitude. In the psychological behavior, you talk about that "nudge" that is a little impure, which is a slight discomfort to a change that is positive, without restricted more the choice possibilities. Because you said these fights, or it's interesting, because we have to have some choice possibilities. Otherwise, we also feel very appreciated, or very guilty. And this makes us insist. This makes us lose hope completely. I was watching a news these days of a 19-year-old boy, Robyn Woods, one of the most famous trees in the world, who has more than 200 years of love, from Robin Hood, and I don't know what the boy, at a level of despair, despair with the world and humanity, derailed this tree. And then, it's a shock. All the world is extremely despairing, which is the future that we have in front of. So, some active hope that allows us to be more adaptative, and accept that we also don't have control of everything. In the city, there is a lot to do with this, so, it's necessary to avoid the managers, the paranoia, these assumptions, and to be able to acquire some better habits, some media of content, yes, with renunciations, seeing renunciations, what we can, what we can burn. If it's going to be enough, if it's going to take time, we don't know, but what doesn't give, is to despair the climatic, deprimir our sense of activism, until the subject deprimides us in a transformation, in a general way. Interesting that you wrote this boy's story, that even gave me a rapist, that you said, Lucas, because I was thinking that, maybe, the great debate that we have for the next few years, is the bottom of the valley, between the equality and the ecophobia. Ecophobia, in the sense of, we are very afraid of being at home, or in the planet Earth, and start, until a phobic relation, exactly, with environmental issues, or even, to install in a paranoia position, because in this case, the boy you described, or making a psychoanalysis very selvage, I thought exactly in the destructivity of paranoia position, yes, the nature will destroy me, I will destroy it before, perfect, defense attack, but thinking in ecophobia, I found it beautiful, that you caused of commonness also to produce something. Perhaps, it produces the chance of returning to Mars. This is the title of the book of Tatiana Rock, Secretariat of Science, Technology of Rio de Janeiro, which is the day we return to Mars, which is practically a manifest book that invites us to see the climate crisis, as a chance to change the world of the same and delirious in which we live. It speaks, even, of how it is urgent for Brazilians, because we have this myth of the 'Splendid' of our natural riches are inexhaustible, that we are giant for nature, and it describes in the book how this myth was the combustible of destruction of our biomes. It was believing that we are giant, that we have a 'Splendid', that we detonated the Atlantic, the Cerrado, and now we came to the Amazon. As if the Amazon was the last stop of this 'Splendid' trend. And what this great idealized, Tatiana Rock, is something that we have to disassemble, because it plays the resolution of the problem to the front, a problem that is founded again in the economic inequality. There are people who have tried to even talk about the capital language. The 'Popoma', the guy who was CEO of the Unilever, for many years, wrote in a book that the costs of the climate crisis for the global economy, will turn into $1,270 trillion. While some selective solutions to minimize the problem would be in the house of the 40 trillion. So it's much more expensive for us to leave the train following the abandoned, what we will necessarily stop and rethink. There are some solutions that may be even more anxious, the 'Lets of the Devil Import', that we have been there in the beginning of the episode, it speaks a lot of an idea of the depth of resilience. Resilience is not in a sense of corporate leadership, but in our capacity to recover psychologically from the moment of the great anguish. Jailya Nebrun, writing specifically about Altamira, there in Belomonte, a city that has already lived the end of the world, like it describes, invokes us to freedom in the future. Because the idea of continuing everything that we have done here is to keep the future imprisoned in Catastrophe. And Catastrophe says that we are exactly new people. And then you are a little bit of a text from her. And it is there that the absurd that the pandemic opened, suddenly the world stopped. When the indigenous peoples, the scientists and the teenagers shouted that it was necessary to reduce the production to save our lives on the planet, that it was necessary to change the way of living. Governors and great corporations said that it was impossible. What did the pandemic show us? That it is possible, yes. And to do that quickly. In few weeks, the impossible happened. André, for today, this city, we will leave here, giving the answer, then. But without any delay. Please, it's combined. Combined. So, ok. See you next time. See you later, bye bye. [MUSIC] Your sausage, my muffin with egg, didn't change. You received it. The sausage, my muffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Right, this impression may vary. This episode is brought to you by ESPN. Catch the first WWE Premium Live event on ESPN. 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