Speaker 1This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. As we head into the end of the year, it's really easy to get caught up in the things we feel like we were supposed to be doing. Whether it's making it to every holiday gathering, finding the perfect gift, or keeping up with traditions that don't really work for us anymore. This time of year can come with a lot of expectations. What if we gave ourselves permission to do things a little differently? That's one of the things therapy can help with. Making space to understand what you're feeling, what you need, and how you want to move forward. BetterHelp connects you with licensed therapists who have at least 3 years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience. BetterHelp is now in-network with more than 125 health plans, with co-pays as low as $15 for eligible members. And if you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the U.S., you can still get 10% off of your. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash EverythingHappens. That's BetterHelp.com slash EverythingHappens.
Speaker 2Oh, hello, friends. Look, it is a big day. It's season 16 of Everything Happens. Welcome. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited that you're here. I'm also just, like, in awe that this gets to be part of my job. I've been doing
Speaker 1this now for eight years, which has been the opportunity of a lifetime to have incredible conversations, over 200 of them to date. And that together, we've really built this incredible community, me and you. Yes, you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing these episodes with your friends. Thank you for trusting me with life's hardest. And most tender questions. It really has been just such an honor to be with you and to, like, make things for you. This season, we're going
Speaker 2to start with someone very special. She is luminous. She is wise. She is sometimes delightfully cranky. And, of course, it's Anne Lamott.
Speaker 1Anne is, as you know, a best-selling author, beloved essayist, and one of the great truth-tellers of our time. She's written iconic books like Bird by Bird, Operating Instructions, and Traveling Mercies. She also has a brand-new book coming out called Good Writing, co-written with her husband, Neil. And it's a wise and generous guide to the writing life. And Annie just joined Substack, so you can find her over there, too. This conversation was taped live in Durham in front of a room of wonderful friends at the Historic Carolina Theater. You're going to hear the warmth of the room. It was a completely packed house. And you can also, like, watch it if you go over to YouTube.
Speaker 2And let's just say you're going to hear Annie. She keeps me on my toes as a moderator.
Speaker 1But being in person with you guys is just always one of my most favorite things, which brings me to some very fun news.
Speaker 2I'm going on tour. And I really want you to be there. So if you live in the following
Speaker 1places, or, like, plan a girls' trip, you can come on and see me in Nashville, in Houston, in Charlotte, in Durham, Charleston. I'm going to be in Los Angeles. I'm going to be in San Francisco. I'm going to be in New York. I'm going to be in D.C., in Indianapolis, in Winston-Salem. And also, I'm going to be in London, which is going to be really, really fun. Tickets are available now and are going fast at katebowler.com slash joyful anyway. Also, Canada, my beloved Canada, I have not forgotten about you. So don't you worry. Dates and tickets for the Canadian leg are going to be announced soon. Okay. This is going to be a great conversation. So settle in. Whether you're listening. You're in the car, or on a walk, or you're just figuring out how much laundry you have. I hope this conversation feels like good, good company. Here's Anne Lamont. When I thought about tonight, I thought about something Father Richard Rohr had written in his book, The Art of Letting Go. And he says, it was a funny little passage that said, faith makes you mature. But it wasn't like that. It was like, faith makes you old. Like, our God. God is wizening us at this moment. So it made me want to start by asking you, how old do you
Speaker 3feel at this point?
Speaker 4I feel like I'm 57. Although I'm 71. But if I look at my driver's license, it says that I'm 57. But your inside person doesn't age. You know, the outside person ages rather dramatically. And so I used to feel like I was a little bit older. And I used to feel like I was a little bit older. I used to feel 47. But now I feel 57. Because I had to fly 3,000 miles. And so that aged me. And then. I think. How old do you feel?
Speaker 1I feel 112. Do you? But not like a longevity study.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like when they're like, why? Yeah, yeah. Like cockroaches. Yeah, yeah, exactly. One of my favorite things about you is that you got married at 65. Which makes me want to put you. On the cover of Costco magazine.
Speaker 4I got married three days after I started getting Social Security. I'd never been married before. I had a child by myself. First, I went on Match. And I. Because I didn't know how to date, you know? And I'm an alcoholic. So when you're drinking, you just. Like, you're not quite dating. Like, you just have the next, like, hostage. And then. And then you stay with them. And it all turns to hell. And then you just always know who the next person is. And so I really didn't know how to date. So I went on Match. And I had a year of just god-awful dates. Like this one guy with a Beavis and a butthead laugh. But you have to have coffee. You can't just go, no. You sit, you have coffee. But I thought, this is good. I've never had to date before. And people would bring me manuscripts. No. And on one. This one guy I liked a lot. And on our third. Right before our third date, he said, is it too soon? Is it too soon to bring you a plot treatment? Right? So, but I did it. And I toughed it out. And I saw some guys. And a lot of them were very sweet. And you just. Like, what I longed for in my heart was that I would find a man who, if it was a woman, I'd want to be best friends with. Right? And I was going to hold out for that. And so there was this guy. And there's a match.com for old people called Our Time. And so there was this guy on Our Time. And he was really handsome. And they always say spiritual, but not religious. Right? And what that means is that they personally think they're a really good guy. Right? But they have zero interest in spirituality. They probably don't even believe in God. Right? And I'm not going to be able to have a life with someone who doesn't believe in God. But this one guy's really handsome. Spiritual. Spiritual, but not religious. Overeducated. A problem. But mentions all the same books that I've always given to everyone I ever loved. Right? So we have that in common. But then he says he's allergic to cats. My life is my cat. It goes like, Jesus, the cat, the family. Right? So I let it go. I don't pursue it. Well, about three months later, I see this incredibly handsome guy. Has read all this. And I write to him and I say, God, I really like your profile. And he writes back, you already rejected me. I guess I wasn't Jesus-y enough. So I said, no, it wasn't that. It's that you're allergic to cats. And he said, I've lived with cats. I have this thing I do. I put, this is a great thing to know, brewer's yeast in the kibble. That somehow changes the protein in the kibble. And the cat's secretions. This is an evolving theme of our thought. And so he says, can I take you to dinner? Well, I have so many issues. I don't even have time to tell you about them all. But I don't like to eat with people I don't know. I mean, I don't actually like to eat with people I do know. You know, I eat with like four different people, four friends I can bear to eat with if we have the TV on. So, so he says, do you have coffee? I can have coffee. So we meet for coffee and I love how he looks. He sort of looks like William Hurt, really tall. And I love his hands and we start to jam and we don't stop. We're just going, oh, did you read? Oh yeah, no, I've read that question. And we never stopped the conversation. And so it's been very happy. And you know, we're old. And he said the funniest thing the other day. He said, the thing about, 'cause we both have a ton of issues, you know, and he said, he said, kind of thoughtfully, he said, the thing about old bodies is they hurt all the time and they look bad.
Speaker 3Oh,. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1You mentioned the strangeness of reconciling like the young self with this mature kind of love. And it made me want to ask you about the most important person of the first part of your life, which was your dad. You're both writers. creatives and Sounds like such a charismatic and fascinating person that goes all the way down to your soul. I wondered what the biggest lessons that you'd learned early on from being his daughter.
Speaker 4Well, he was great. I adored him. He was the center. He looked like a Kennedy. He was brilliant. He had a nice sense of humor. He was a bird watcher. So he was a cool guy. But he hated my mother. And so I grew up in a family where I needed to make sure dad came home. And he drank. And he had affairs. And my mother ate and tried to manage and manipulate her three children into doing perfectly in school. I grew up thinking that I was in charge of everybody's happiness. And what I learned growing up was that I should be a certain way. And then everybody loved. And that meant being like a flight attendant to the family. And what I learned to do was to fashion this fabulous persona. My parents were both atheists. My mother was from England. My father was raised by Presbyterian missionaries in Tokyo. God's frozen chosen, which is what I am. I'm a Presbyterian. And there was no sense that I was loved and chosen because I was. I was a child, just a delight because I had a big open heart. I was very sensitive. In the 50s, there was this book called The Overly Sensitive Child. And it was for parents who were saddled with a child such as myself. But, you know, we took National Geographic. And I would see the photos. I would see the photos of the children in Africa or India. And I would cry. And they would go, oh, for Christ's sake, Annalee. Now what? So I learned to stop it. I got an eating. I've had a lifelong eating disorder until a few years ago. So I got 12-step help. We were sent to our room because the English, you don't get mad. You just stiff lip and carry on. And if we were angry or sad at the dinner table, we went to our room without eating. So my father was who I loved. He was who I longed to be and who I longed to please. And I was afraid my entire childhood. I get sober when I realize that it was never out there. That it was an inside job. That the self-esteem, the sense of self-respect was, you know, like, you know what it's like. You get a great review. You hit the New York Times bestseller list. And it's like, crack. It's fabulous. Right? I mean, I won't lie. It's the greatest feeling on earth. You're stupid. You're stupid. You're stupid. You're stoned on it. Because it means, it's like the world has validated your parking ticket. And it means, but what happens? It dissipates. And then you either need it again or you just feel like shit. You know, because it's not there anymore. People aren't patting you and going, oh, my God. Oh, my God. You hit the list. Oh, this. And so I was very late to undo a lot of what my father taught me. But I still am. I'm a bird watcher. And I'm still a book-based person. Yeah. And those were my dad. And I got to be a good conversationalist. And I got to have a sense of humor because of my dad. Yeah. I wanted to talk about this thing that we were talking about in the car today when we were cruising and about what we've shared, which is that shame that began in childhood about who we actually were.
Speaker 1It's kind of my strongest first memory of you. I was really struggling with the fact that I have very loving parents who gave me a very incomplete sense of self-worth. And so I've always felt like at the very center of me is just like a sand castle. And there are just waves coming. And every day I kind of have to build it back up again. But the easiest. The easiest kind of thing. And then it's just gone. And I remember when I met you the first time, actually, I looked at you and you said you are loved and cherished. Chosen. Chosen. And the second you said it, I felt like it was like daggers to my stabby little heart. And then I think the second thing you said was, do you normally cry this much?
Speaker 3And all of that tracks.
Speaker 1I've always thought of you as having such. Like a loving, tender word for all those of us who feel too sensitive, too much, too tender inside and are not really sure what to do, especially now in a world that seems to require us to be so hard.
Speaker 4Yeah. So girded. Well, there's the illusion that the armor is going to protect you, whereas the armor actually keeps you from the direct sense of Holy Spirit and the goodness and the love that. But yeah, you know, my I've told you this before on your podcast and I've written about it, but about my wild Jesuit priest friend, Tom Weston. He told me this thing. He said, these are the five rules of being a human, an American human. You should have nothing wrong with you or different about you. OK. Yeah. Right. I can. Yeah. I'll get on it. Just do that. Sure. Rule two is if you do, you should fix it or change it. Correct it. Rule three is if you can't even correct it, you should just pretend it's not a thing anymore. It's just like it used to be, but it's not anymore. And the fourth rule is that if you can't even pretend that it's not a part of you anymore, you should not show up. Because it's so painful for the rest of us. And the fifth rule is that if you're going to insist on the right to show up, you should have the decency to be ashamed. And that's what we're all up against. And that's what I talk about with my writing students. The shame, right? No one in your family is going to be happy to hear that you're writing a memoir. Believe me. But every writer, even the great. The writers you love most, Kate, me, but the famous literary, but are there any others? No, but I mean, the literary writers you love, every one of them, you deal with that shame that it doesn't come easily to you. That you, like when I was a kid in the 50s, and I know a lot of you who are older remember this. The greatest criticism you made of a child was, oh, she thinks she's so full of herself. Right? Well, full of yourself is a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful. It's a beautiful way to be that you're full of your memories and of your challenges and how brave you've been and how loved you are by just a few people. All you need, you know, and to be full of yourself and to be full of what you're going to start trying to do. You know, you're going to start writing. You're going to start doing. I started going to the gym about six months ago. I'm older. I need to have. I need to do weights. I need to, for bone, I need to do this. And the shame, like I go there and I'm like, like Ruth Buzzy, you know. You know, and now I can lift weights, you know, and, and also, you know, and I also never going to look like, you know, Kourtney Kardashian. I'm just not. And I always. I like that you went with Kourtney. Yeah, yeah. We all aspire to that. I love Kourtney. How can you not? You can get there. But. And then I'm like, you know, I'm Blanche DuBois with all the really adorable young men. I'm like, oh, excuse me. I have trouble changing this bar. And then, and then I can pull it down. I've been doing it for six months. And that's how we learn. That's bird by bird. That's how we learn to do anything. We learn afraid and we learn full of shame. Yeah. But you know what we do? We show up.
Speaker 1Yeah. That's right. That's what we do. I love when you quote that William Blake poem. May we learn to bear the beams of love.
Speaker 4We are here to learn to endure the beams of love. Oh, God. The hardest work we do. A lot of us, and I know a lot of women here, have been, as I said, flight attendants to the world. Yeah. Getting your self-esteem from being loved for how much you do for everybody else and how beautifully. You see people through and help with their kit and help with their old people, da, da, da. But William Blake's, what a trippy God. Yeah. We are here to learn to endure the beams of love, to put down the swords, you know, and to take off the armor. Because that's when we're at our most powerful. You do the sacrament of ploppage. You plop and you breathe. Can you look around? That's what all of your books are about. It's hard here. It's weird here. People are damaged. People can be hurtful. What's your title? Joyful Anyway? Joyful Anyway. You know what? Hit me with your best shot because I am not getting my joy from out there anymore. It's an inside job.
Speaker 1I was just thinking about the places where I feel that kind of absurd, like divine love the most where it's overwhelming. And I think that's partly why I love this community so much is because some of my moments of like delirious love came from when I felt at my most helpless. And then I could feel like the grace. Of other people step in like, well, anointing oil, like hands, like people praying over you, like they're direct in traffic, you know, and then other times it's just in the chaos of everything that's been going on. And then at night, my son has this sort of choir of stuffies and he has, they just create these little caves and the bunk bed is so low that I effectively have to crawl up to him. And then he has his four comforters stacked one on top of the other, and then just his otherwise enormous head peeking out from it. But I find myself as I'm like shuffling over, it feels like a pilgrimage site. And now I am just worshiping at the altar of love and that many eyelashes on little boys. And I, I can't help but just feel overwhelmed by how grateful I am for everything that's left, for everything that might be. For little scraps of every beautiful thing. And I wonder where you feel like the absurdity of love the most.
Speaker 4A lot of times people are dying and things get so real, you know, and people aren't talking about their accomplishments and their promotions or how much they're talking about love. They're talking about the necklace of beads of love. And there was, I want to tell you this one thing. There was this Jesuit named Father Arupe, who I think in the 60s is the worldwide, he's a worldwide head of the Jesuits and he's living in Japan. And so he's having this profound experience of immersion in meditation and in the Buddhist traditions. And he's brilliant, brilliant literary. He starts having a series of strokes little by little. He's just, they really take him out. Little by little, he needs his pit crew to just do everything more and more and more for him. And finally he has a stroke and he's just, it's like neither side works all of a sudden. And he writes, now I finally know what it means to be in the arms of God. And he goes on for years, but he can't be performing. He can't be emphasizing and he can't be seducing. And so I've. I just, I was so, so moved by that. And I feel that feeling of blown away by miracle and resurrection in 12-step meetings a lot. Yeah. There's this woman. She'd had a horrible oral cancer. So to save her, they'd done chemo and radiation, but they also did surgery and they took out part of her jawbone, part of her tongue. And so. And some of her teeth. Yeah. You do what you do. And she's okay. And, but she has a speech impediment now and she has a really funny, fabulous way of speaking. And then, and she comes to meetings and Al-Anon meetings all the time and she just speaks gratitude, you know, that she's here, that she loves life so much, that she knows she's loved and chosen, that she's. And then it comes back and it returns. And one day at a meeting, she says. I'm going to have to do it. It's back and I'm going to have to do it all again. I have to do more surgery. I have to do chemo and radiation again. Well, everyone, you know, 15 nervous women start doing, oh, well, you know, whatever. Have you heard about oxygen therapy? Have you, you know, about magnesium? And my cousin's hairdresser had that exact same thing. And she just waves it away like cigarette smoke. And she says, you know what? God's got it. And that is. That's where I feel that we have one foot here and one foot somewhere else. And I feel that that was the love that indwelled her, given to us so freely by God, as we understand God, but God in each other's faces and love and support. There's a grace. I have a great story. I used to tell my Sunday school kids. I would go to a failing church with like four, there might be four kids and it could be a five-year-old and a 15-year-old and people in between say, I'm wondering if anyone here has sort of two-tone white and beige sneakers on today. But it would be like, and then, you know how kids are, they go. And I'd say, Kate, you are loved and chosen. I want you to. We can. We both fit in this chair. Come sit with me. And then I'd say, is anyone here wearing Hokey Man shoelaces? So, but anyway, I used to tell them this story, this sort of story joke of a very, very frightened little girl who can't go to sleep one night and who's me. I couldn't sleep, I didn't sleep a day in my life. She calls her mother and her mother comes in and at first y'all was really nice when they want, they want to. Sit with you for a minute. She says, oh, you know, I'm right next door and don't worry. Well, 10 minutes later, the little girl calls out for her and says, I just need you. And the mother comes back. She says, you're just right here. And don't forget, Jesus is right here with you too. So you don't have to be afraid. And this goes on and on, you know, fills the first half hour of my Sunday school class. And it goes on and on. And finally, the little girl calls for her again and the mother comes in and now she's the way we get. She's exhausted by it. And she says, Jesus is here with you on the bed, right beside you. And the little girl says, I need someone with skin on. And that's who we're called to be, right? That's what you teach. That's the teaching is that we're called to be people with skin on. Jesus comes here, comes here, God with a, you know, skin on. And he knows he's, he sees the violence and the rage and the pain and the sorrow and walks among amongst us, right? I love that so much. So when I don't know what to do, I think all I'm going to do today is be God, is God with skin on. I'm going to get thirsty people water and I'm going to pick up micro litter and call it a day. Maybe have a nap.
Speaker 1Because I just want to also be clear that this woman taught Sunday school for 30 years, but also with a kind of loving vindictiveness, like if you texted, for example, like if I was like, Hey, would you like to go to Sunday school? And she would say, which is a real story. I'm having a horrible time. It's this guy named Henry. If she was at Sunday school, she'd be like, all the children are now yelling, boo, Henry, boo, Henry. So it was a powerful force you had behind you.
Speaker 3It's like you were conscripting troops into a sudden, we hate Henry. That's right. You really went to the mat for me and all the kids, my new little cult members. We're going to be back in just a little bit. We're going to be back. that's right you really went to the mat for me and all the kids my new little cult members we're going to be right back
Speaker 1after a break to hear from our sponsors don't go anywhere this episode is brought to you by quince there's nothing like having the pieces in your closet that you love and you can count on for any occasion it makes getting ready so much less stressful. This holiday season, quince is where I'm finding those pieces. I love my Mongolian cashmere sweater from quince because it's one of those pieces that I can go to over and over again. It's so soft, it's timeless, it looks great with everything, a little classy. I just like knowing that I'll have it in my closet for years to come. Plus, these sweaters start at just $50, making them a great gift for someone special this holiday season too. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so everything is priced 50-80% less than similar brands. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was everything happens. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. I've been really wanting to make my living room feel a little bit cozier and more put together for this new season of, you know, sweaters and whatnot, but I didn't want to sacrifice style. But then I came across this totally beautiful upholstered swivel accent chair on Wayfair, and I love it. It's modern, it's super cozy, and it's a great way to make the space feel so much more inviting. so much more inviting, I love that Wayfair has options for every style and budget. whether you're looking for small seasonal refreshes or tackling a bigger home project. For me, I love to find things that are stylish but also functional and I love when something can make the space feel so like hospitable and nice to have people over in. And with Wayfair Verified, products are hand vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection so you can shop with more confidence. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% off on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's w-a-y-f-a-i-r.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. I think one of the things that's so precious too about the way that we have to confront, I mean, death and especially I think like the impossibility of the questions of kids who know when we are bullshitting them. You have this lovely passage I wondered if you could read and it was right after a tragic school shooting and you are teaching Sunday school and you're going to give them some kind of answer.
Speaker 4I drove to church on Palm Sunday six days after the latest school shooting in Nashville and there were three little kids killed and three aides there and I had three nine-year-olds and I had two nine-year-olds in a group of about five. So anyway, while they worked on their cards, I told the kids the story of the sparrow in the horse, which I have written about before but which bears repeating. A war horse comes upon a sparrow lying on its back in the street with its feet straight up in the air. What on earth are you doing, the horse sneers. I'm trying to hold back the darkness, the sparrow replies. That's absurd, the horse says. You barely weigh an ounce. One does what one can, says the sparrow. The nine-year-olds both look puzzled. Is that a true story? I watch them draw, their faces inward and dreamy, their mouths on the edges of smiles, trees, hearts, dogs, and probably a beaver. We're making cards for Nashville. We're going to send them to Nashville. We don't know who yet, but you know, figure it out is a bad slogan, so we're just making the cards. This will save them art and imagination, the power of imaginative joy. It tells us we will not plummet to the ground. We will be caught. Over the last 30 years, while most of my Sunday school kids have done fine with the usual allotment of struggle, loss, disheartening jobs, and missed opportunities, i.e. real life, several of my cherished kids have died. One of brain cancer, one by hanging out because she felt she could not come out as gay, and one was shot under the bridge where he was living in a homeless encampment. My kids have been cutters, addicts, and anorexics, and that was before things here got really bad. New scientific reports now say Earth will likely cross the threshold beyond which it cannot avoid cataracts. catastrophic climate change within the next 10 years unless we rapidly stop burning fossil fuels. Raise your hand if you think we will. Recent parents have come up to me near tears and asked how they can help their kids with this. I tell them that they need to be in prayer about this with their kids, but also that we are good at discovering impossible things like the God particle and the Hubble telescope. The human genome and proton radiation. So help them focus on miracles and how each child can help. Be kind, do good, pick up litter in the neighborhood, walk more, plant seedings, read inspiring biographies with them, help them find ways to serve the poor, laugh a lot, read and make art. That's all I've got. that feeling like well
Speaker 1that's all I've got is so um it's a heavy it's a heavy feeling right now and I I love how committed you are to small stubborn acts of love but you say something so funny that I had to write it down we are the ones we've been waiting for no one is coming to save us from our deepest fears this is so incredibly
Speaker 3disappointing right now should we be should
Speaker 1should we be just intensely stubborn about small hopefulness
Speaker 4well I do think hope is a radical act in these it's it's a decision you know I have a lot of hope in the American people I have a lot of hope that small groups well Margaret Mead said it like never doubt that a small group of people um committed to good can change the world in fact and this is not exact but it's the only thing that ever has you know so you find people who you are who are doing good and you help them do it and you you uh you know the when I first got sober someone said take the action and the insight will follow so you take the action you feel you don't know what to do you're scared you're angry you're overwhelmed by what's going on in the world or at the dining room table so you fill a bag with food and don't forget oreos for the little ones and the old people and the moms and everyone and you take to the food pantry you know and it changes your whole day because now you've created love and hope and oreo cookies you know and so you take the action the insight follows that love abides that love abounds that love is who we are that love is what we're made of that love is what we're made for and there is this guy and I know I've mentioned I've shared this with you before this guy the father Dowling who helped Bill Wilson get AA started in in 1935 and Bill was Wilson was just the most neurotic depressive on earth and yet when God in her infinite wisdom decides to throw in the 12 steps based on the Oxford group before him throw it through tears a little hole in the veil and tosses them in like a football she throws them to Bill Wilson who has failed at everything he's ever tried but he's got this engaging personality and um but he wants to think things and know things and figure things out and father Dowling says to him Bill sometimes I think that heaven is just a new pair of glasses and I think about that a lot because I wake up I say my prayers I put on my glasses I let the dog out to be every single morning I wake up I say my prayers I put on my glasses I let the dog out to be and I think about that I think about if I had a like a lot of days I'm just cranky I I just wish people would obey my will you know um I have excellent ideas for everybody you know I have like great ideas for everyone here and your children and you know and I have tiny tiny control issues you know and so every I get very judgy and that's probably my gravest character defect but it's also my deepest wound is this endless judgment this is good this is bad this person is this that person forget them this that the yeah and um and if I put on a good pair of glasses I just make a decision to live in the prayer of we that we are here to learn to endure the beams of love and to get water Jesus is so clear like get thirsty people water you know and he's got those whiny bachelors geez when is it our turn I hate this everyone's so mean he's he's it's Jesus in Jewish mother mode where he I was always saying go to the beach someone will bring in a load of fish have something to eat right you all seem very tense and and I'll come back later and then he goes off and he prays and so anyway so you feed people you don't know what to do you you go to Doctors Without Borders and you send them 25 dollars or you get a bunch of ones and you give them to every person you see at the intersection even though you don't think they're going to spend it on what you think would be best you know like Jesus doesn't say to the blind man what do you anticipate looking at after you know you just give you just give you know and we're taught by the American way and the way of all commercials and advertisements is that we feel lacking because of what we're not getting and what we don't have but what we feel empty and isolated about is what we're not giving as soon as we give it changes everything everything, because all of a sudden the world, it's a new pair of glasses, and I think that's the system. We think we're hungry for what we're not getting. Yes. We're hungry for what we're not giving. Yes. And when we bring, oh thank you, when we bring hope, when we bring hope to someone who's feeling hopeless, then hope exists. Yeah. Then we're in a little emotional acre where there's
Speaker 5hope. Yes, that's right. We're going to take a quick break to tell
Speaker 1you about the sponsors of this show. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by FIGS. So I know a lot of you listening work in healthcare, and first of all, thank you so much. You are the people who show up and go above and beyond to care for other people. And second of all, if you don't already know about FIGS, it is time. FIGS' mission is to empower people that work in healthcare by making the best scrubs, apparel, and accessories. The holiday season is officially here, and if you work in healthcare or happen to know anyone who does, you know it's the most wonderful time of the year, sure, but also the busiest. It's also the perfect time to think about giving them or yourself what they really want this year, and that's some ridiculously soft, stylish, comfortable FIGS scrubs. FIGS just launched their all-new holiday collection, featuring tons of new styles and accessories in festive shades that'll bring all the holly jolly merriness to their shift. From scrub wear to outerwear to accessories and beyond, FIGS has a little something for gifting every awesome, beautiful woman on your list, including yourself. So if you're in healthcare or shopping for someone who is, be sure to check them out. You can get 15% off your first order at wearfigs.com with the code FIGSRX. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. This episode is brought to you by Merit Beauty. Somehow it is already fall, and that means we're probably in the thick of our routines by now. And in the middle of a busy life, I'm trying to find those little moments that make me feel like myself. And Merit Beauty has become one of those things for me that I can get ready and feel polished without spending a ton of time in front of the mirror. I really like trying new products, but need things to be very low maintenance and easy to replicate. I recently tried Merit's Great Skin Serum and then used The Minimalist for quick, buildable coverage. And with my fingers, because, you know, I'm classy like that, just like added a little flush balm on my cheeks and finished with their Clean Volume Mascara. And that was it. Just a couple minutes, and I felt ready to go. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering our listeners their signature makeup bag, which if you've seen it, it's not just a makeup bag, but really an accessory. Free with your first order at MeritBeauty.com. That's M-E-R-I-T Beauty.com, MeritBeauty.com. I think that's why I'm so obsessed with joy right now, is there is some weird alchemy that happens. When you give yourself away. Like, because I was sort of hoping that I could just sort of accrue more joy by just little, like, optimization. Just a real sense of efficiency, which I bring as a spirit to my day. That I could achieve joy if I could just sort of stack it. And there's this really odd relationship with, like, with loss and surrender.
Speaker 4I mean, why do you think. Well, it counts to be bread upon the water, right? Because it comes back to you, and it might be the casting that gives us that direct connection with the Holy Spirit, right? It's how I see it. I probably have that all wrong, but I'm a dropout, so it doesn't matter if I get things wrong. They probably taught that junior year in college, but right, the casting might be the way that we receive. Just to freely cast what you have upon the water.
Speaker 1Yeah. That also reminds me of what my dad would say right before I would try to present something at the show and tell on, like, Fridays in grade five. I would bring, like, I think the kids want to hear Wagner. You know, just sort of present an elaborate something, unbidden, unwanted, and you'd be like, oh, pearls before swine, sweetheart. Yeah, pearls before Wagner. It's fine. But I do think we don't know when we're giving something away, like, who's it for? And maybe especially right now, we almost have to give. Before we believe we'll ever get anything back.
Speaker 4Yeah. Can I read you a poem? Okay, this is a good bonus. Life is short, though I keep this from my children. Life is short, and I've shortened mine in a thousand delicious, ill-advised ways. A thousand deliciously ill-advised ways I'll keep from my children. The world is at least 50% terrible, and that's a conservative estimate, though I keep this from my children. For every bird, there is a stone thrown at a bird. For every loved child, a child broken, bagged, sunk in a lake. Life is short, and the world is at least half terrible. And for every kind stranger, there is one who would break you, though I keep this from my children. I'm trying to sell them the world. Any decent realtor walking you through a real shithole chirps on about good bones. This place could be beautiful, right? You could make this place beautiful. So that's Maggie Smith and her one book, one collection is called You Can Make This Place Beautiful. Okay, this is a little bit longer, so settle in. Naomi Shehab, S-H-I-H-A-B-N-Y-E, Gate A4. Wandering around the Albuquerque airport, do you know this poem? No. Oh, my God.
Speaker 3This is a ride, and I'm on it.
Speaker 4Okay. Wandering around the Albuquerque airport terminal, after learning my flight had been delayed four hours, I heard an announcement. If anyone in the vicinity of Gate A4 understands any Arabic, please come to the gate immediately. Well, one pauses these days. Gate A4 was my own gate. I went there. An old woman in full traditional Palestinian, embroidered dress, just like my grandma wore, was crumpled to the floor, wailing. Help, said the flight agent. Talk to her. What is her problem? We told her the flight was going to be late, and she did this. I stooped to put my arm around the woman and spoke haltingly. Shidoa, shibiduk, hibidi, stanshwe, minfadik, shubit, siwi. The minute she heard any words she knew, however poorly used, she stopped crying. She thought the flight had been canceled entirely. She needed to be in El Paso for major medical treatment the next day. I said, no, we're fine. You'll get there just later. Who's picking you up? Let's call him. We called her son. I spoke with him in English. I told him I would stay with his mother till we got on the plane and ride him home. She talked to him. Then we called her other sons just for the fun of it. Then we called my dad, and he and she spoke for a while in Arabic and found out, of course, they had 10 shared friends. Then I thought, just for the heck of it, why not call some Palestinian poets I know and let them chat with her? This all took two hours. She was laughing. She was laughing a lot by then, telling of her life, patting her knee, answering questions. She had pulled a sack of homemade mamoul cookies, little powdered sugar crumbly mounds stuffed with dates and nuts from her bag, and was offering them to all the women at the gate. To my amazement, not a single woman declined one. It was like a sacrament. The traveler from Argentina, the mom from California, the lovely woman from Laredo, we were all covered with the same powdered sugar. And smiling, there's no better cookie. And then the airline broke out free apple juice from huge coolers, and two little girls from our flight ran around serving it, and they were covered with powdered sugar too. And I noticed my new best friend, by now we were holding hands, had a potted plant poking out of her bag, some medicinal thing, with green furry leaves, such an old country tradition, always carry a plant, always stay rooted to somewhere. And I looked around that gate of late and weary ones, and I thought, this is the world I want to live in, this shared world. Not a single person in that gate, once the crying of confusion stopped, seemed apprehensive about any other person. They took the cookies. I wanted to hug all those other women too. This can still happen anywhere. Not everything is lost.
Speaker 1describe love. I hear the morness. I hear the overwhelming desire to overcome our exhausting and necessary judgment. I hear the chants of Sunday school children who want my grudges to succeed. And I could not be more grateful to have had you here tonight with us. Thank you so much. Okay, before we go, I just want to pause for a minute because maybe if you're like me or maybe like Anne, you spend a lot of your life hoping. Hoping for things to get easier, for things to be better. Hoping for more clarity, more certainty, more answers. But sometimes what we really need isn't more. It's just enough. So here's a blessing for anyone and everyone who wants more in a world. Where everything happens. May you have enough. Enough love to put you back together again. Enough forgiveness for yourself and for others. Enough faith to grow deliciously old. And enough hope to stay wide awake to possibility. And may we all learn to be joyful anyway. Speaking of which, my book, Joyful Anyway, comes out in April. And you can pre-order a copy now so you can get it like right on the day it comes out. Or just grab a ticket for one of the tour stops at katebowler.com/joyfulanyway. I'm also just having the best time on Substack. So feel free to come find me there. It is truly like the nicest place on the internet. And I'm going to be doing a daily reflection for Lent this year. So if you make sure you're subscribed, you will never miss a post. It's at katebowler.substack.com. A big thank you to all the people who made this conversation and event possible. Rob Webb, Ken Spencer, The Duke Endowment, Dean Edgardo Colon-Emerick, Duke Divinity School, Harriet Putman, Liz Allen, Catherine Smith, Megan Cronkleton, Anne Haring, Healy DeRitt, Jessica Ritchie, Eliza Neo, Anna Fitzgerald-Peterson, and Burt's Media Services. And hey, everyone at the Carolina Theater, we love you, especially Bridget Barnhart. And of course, Keith Westin. You always make me sound better than I deserve. This is Everything Happens with me, Kate Bowler.
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