"Andrew Huberman"

(upbeat music) - Hey. - Hey, Sean, I wanna get into this, I know we gotta do a cool open for the show, but I'm planning New York today, so I gotta, why are you going, why are you coming in here, why are you coming in here, why are you coming in here? - I gotta go take care of some stuff, and I just, I mean, I'm not trying to be Jake about it, but I know I just gotta do some stuff, I gotta, I gotta go to New York, I gotta, I gotta go. - I gotta, I gotta come and pick you from your apartment. (laughing) - Okay, are you happy? Welcome to Smart List. - Smart. (upbeat music) - Smart. - Smart. - Smart. - Smart. - Smart. - Blast. - Jason, you're still coughing. - I'm still coughing, I'm still clearing. You guys both got it, right? - Yeah, I'm doing a little better. - But you're still, you've got it in the, in the lungs, and I know I don't, I might-- ♪ Everybody's working for the weekend ♪ - See, I have enough energy to do that. - I know I can do that. - I know I can, I know I can do, I know I can do that. ♪ Everybody's working for the weekend ♪ - Hey, Bant, right now, JB, who's saying that? - You wanna piece him a heart. - You've had a headband, Tiger Balm. - Fucking close. - White Tiger. - Tiger Balm. - Sort of. - Tiger's milk. - No. - Tiger's milk. (laughing) - No, it wasn't, wasn't it lover boy? - Yes, lover boy. - That's what I said. - That's weird. - By the way, by the way, by the way, my honestly, and I don't wanna get too philosophical 'cause it's the new year and stuff like that. But it is, there is something to it. Everybody is working for the weekend. - Job. - You know? - I'll tell you a little about it. We just went through the holidays here, listening, and everyday seemed like a Saturday, and I was really excited about that. I loved it, but I feel like my brain got real labby. Like, I don't know, now I'm afraid to go outside. I feel like I'll have culture shock if I run into somebody that's like a serious person. - Somebody, last night I was talking to JB, you and I were texting a little bit during the last week in a football, we're dating this when we were recording this, but we're talking about football and stuff, and I was talking to our old buddy Eli. Is that right? - Oh, I do miss him. - I love you, Eli. - Sweet Eli. And he was saying, the holidays were over. Like, tonight's the last night. Like it was the last football game of the regular season. Like it was the last weekend after the thing. - And the year starts. - And honestly, I gotta say, I'm really happy about that. I had, we were all sick over the holiday from starting Christmas day. Had the thing, JB, that you've had, Sean, to which you've known. - I think Jason gave it to me. - Yeah, that big Thanksgiving trichis that we labeled it, right? This is we were leaning in. We said, "Oh, it's a trichis." And then you guys got it. - A turducket. - It was a turducket kiss. - So I'm just, I'm like, at this point after, we spent, which was nice. Again, we felt very fortunate we got to be at home with the family with all my kids. And we had sort of 10 days kind of sequestered on the East Coast. But I'm looking forward to emerging from this. - Yeah. - A little bit from this. - Yeah. - I know what you mean. - And who we are is we're starting right back. We're at work now. - Yeah. - 90 Monday morning. We're a little out of practice, right? - I know. - I know. - I'm really nervous about today's on the set. - I know, nobody's done it. And we haven't covered the weather or the traffic yet. I think there's a sigilard on the 210. - How do you stretch out for a podcast? - I don't know. Jason, you're gonna arrive in about 10 more minutes. I can tell. Jason's got his, Jason's got his, he's wearing a hoodie and he's got the hoodie up and he's got his headphones on the outside. - Yeah. - Of his hoodie. - He's still trying to stay cozy. Like I'm making fires still. - Wait, yeah, tell me, but what do you mean, Jay, when you said that? Because I think the same thing when I, I was thinking about you about like you, you were like, I love being cozy and watching movies and not going anywhere. I'm kind of the same way. And then I know what you mean. Like, oh shoot, this has to end. And like the world starts again. - Sean, you're really on the fence between the, well, I got a couple things. A, there's that. 'Cause you say you like to cozy and do nothing. But the truth is, you also like to just rifle things off a checklist. - Absolutely. - You never stopped, right? - That's right. - I don't wanna think about it. Because if I don't, we talk about this a million times. If I don't check it off or respond or something, then it lingers in my head. I'm like, I gotta do that. And I just don't wanna think about it. - I know. - What's your email inbox look like? Is it clean or is it always zero? - If it's not zero, I panic, yeah. - Me too, empty. - Exactly. - I'm the only thing that's in there. Me and everything. - There are all the emails are in there, but there are just no new messages. - Yeah, I need, if it's still in my inbox, I need to respond to it. That's right, that's how I feel. - But you don't delete all the emails you got. - No, but they've been read. - But that's when I'm amazed when I see people, somebody, I'm amazed when somebody's phone, and the messages of the emails are like, 2,390 people. - That's a sign of, that's a sign of that. - I don't know how to need it. - You think my accounts, yes. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need to go and get an assessment if that's happening. And you need to-- - Or an assistant. - Deep, not in it, no, not in the system. That, that sort of betrays a deeper, like you need a lot of assistance at this point, and we're gonna send somebody over to the house. The only thing is, JB, I want to know, over the holiday, how much wood did you go through? - Gonna wood, check, check. - Sean, that question's gonna go for you, but it's gonna be on a different subject. Go ahead. (laughing) - JB, how much wood did you get through? - Consistent with Sean's answer. I think I went through two loads. - Wow. - (laughing) - Very nice. - Wait a minute, see what they say. I said, you show up in about 10 minutes and what they don't like to look like for. - He is back, you guys. - 2026, log out. (laughing) - All right, well speaking of brain machinist, this is perfect. My guest today is a fellow podcaster, but that's about where the overlap ends. He's got a-- - Cut, you can't even, you can't even make your own writing sound in it. - It's terrible. - You wrote it and it-- - It's terrible. - It can sound like it's red. It's terrible. - Oh, I'll read the whole thing right in front of you. He's got a PhD in neuroscience. He's a tenured professor at Stanford School of Medicine in Neural Biology and Ophthalmology and by courtesy, psychiatry and behavioral sciences. His work's been featured in time, BBC, scientific, American, basically every publication that makes me feel dumb. His podcast is one of the most downloaded in the world. It's the cold plunging, dopamine optimizing, sun staring, science genius, Andrew. - You've been great. - Finally. Good morning and happy new year. - Good morning, happy new year. - How are you? - Doing great. - Yeah. - How's your brain fog today? Are you flabby from the holiday? - I spent this holiday, like I spent so many holidays working in the past that used to be grandson now, it was doing book edits. But I'm very familiar with this, what you call, flabby brain thing that happens after about four days away from, I don't know if it's the grind or the work, but it's a normal thing and it snap right back. - Yeah. - Yeah. Being sick doesn't help. I took some notes here as I was sitting there in the backdrop. This thing that's been going around is rough. - It's no joke. - A couple of, I'll just say there are a couple of things that are supported by the peer-reviewed literature that can really help accelerate moving through something like what you all know with. - Yeah. - I had it too a couple of months ago. Three things, it turns out that the old practice of hot baths is actually quite good. You don't want to make it scalding. Obviously, we get into a just tolerably hot bath. - I'm right in this now. - And it turns out it mobilizes some features of the immune system in ways that can help you get over your sickness. - Like just because you swatted out, is that what it, I mean? - Well, no, dummy, just let him finish. - You're activating some of the mobilization of some of the cells that go in scavenge for whatever it is that you're dealing with. This is particularly useful at the beginning. Your immune system has two different phases. There's a kind of an innate phase where it's like any foreign invader gets kind of the same inflammation response. That's good. That's the kind of like, oh, you know, I'm feeling a little like under, I'm a little extra tired. That's the time, ideally in the hour or two before bed, you take a nice hot bath or hot shower, and then just get into bed. And, you know, if you do that for a couple days in a row, you may be able to spend it off. If not, once you have it, keeping that practice up provided, you don't have a really high fever is really useful. That, and, you know, I know I'm always talking about the morning sunlight. - Please say smoking cigarettes. - Because I say you're security in real. No, but we can talk about nicotine if you want. A lot to say about nicotine. But getting some, what we call longwave length light, so some sunlight, or I'm not here to say red light therapy, but getting some sunlight, this is very well supported by the literature because again, it's helpful for your mitochondrial function, for your immune system. In Arctic countries, not so much Arctic, but in Scandinavia and Russia. They actually put babies bundled up out in the cold in the morning to mobilize these. - No, we throw them all the time. - You know, here we don't do that. Here, that'll get you child protection services. - No, but up in Canada, we'll toss her outside, for sure. - And there are a couple other things we can talk about, but in any case. - Wait a second. Now, listen, Andrew, it may, nice to meet you, first of all. - Yeah, it's so nice to meet you here. - I went, you went for so long. - Okay, shut up. Can I call you, Cuberman? - You can call me whatever you want. Okay, because I refer to you as you remember as if I know you all the time because I've seen clips of yours online for years and stuff And so I like I like a lot of the stuff you talk about First of all you lost Jason when you said bath because you just think he's thinking about his own juices He hates marinating in juices So sauna so interestingly interestingly enough and by the way, not that interesting When I was starting to get this flu I looked it up. I consulted I did my own research as they say meaning I have Google A lot of people like to talk about research and what they mean is that they use the internet Like a bunch of fucking dummies and it's it told me because I've been a I've been a proponent of sauna and cold water always for for more than 10 years. I early early days and They said to me The internet they said don't expose myself if I have the flu That they were worried about because they said that your body's already working hard enough Historically they were saying don't do the cold plunger. Don't do the hot don't do either because they were saying Because I've had it hard enough. So so this was the first time that when when I was sick that I did not Use the heat and or the cold to try to combat it and it ended up being harsher and I now that I'm hearing you I'm like I wish I had because historically I've always just gone in and I saw on our early days when I start to feel that thing in my throat or whatever And usually I'm able to save it off. So you're saying yeah I you know that the cold deliberate cold exposure right cold showers cold plunges this kind of thing It is a stressor Counter to what you hear out there. It does not raise court as all but it is a stressor You're adrenaline spikes when you get in the cold Which is part of the reason you do it? And then when you get out you get that long tail of dopamine and epinephrine a adrenaline that makes you feel Much better and more alert, etc. That's fine under healthy conditions I would say if you're battling something or you feel like you're coming down with something use heat Sauna hot shower hot bath. Whatever it is that works for you. But about that. I would drop the cold as you're getting into something That because it's a very potent stressor. Yeah, the thing about heat is if it's too hot It can also be a stressor. I mean when you're healthy using the Sauna as a way to get your heart rate up and kind of push it in there a little bit is good By the way, useful tip if you put a towel over your head or you know, you'll notice that Russian bonus they wear those I have a Sauna hat. Yeah, it insulates your brain from the heat so you can stay in longer The impulse to get out is a brain thing not unless it's very very hot a a burn thing And then of course if men Men want to conceive children in the next 90 days because of the 90 days for metagenesis cycle if you're going into the sauna you need to put a cold pack at your growing outside your shorts guys if you don't want children also don't use this as As as a surefire way to avoid having children. It's you know many accidents Yeah, you got to stick your nuts in I say like you're Wait, you're saying that the sauna will will will will cut your sperm count Absolutely heat and sperm not a good combo, which is why we're going to Anatomy here, which is why the scrotum can extend and contract closer to the body It's to maintain the optimal temperature for spermatogenesis. How about that? Yeah, and so If you go in a sauna or hot baths quite a bit in the 90 days prior to trying to conceive You're going to limit the number of of highly mobile sperm That said, I'm sure many children have been conceived in a sauna in hot baths and in hot conditions But this is on average. No comment I would have had tons of kids right now Now let's let's get back to what you were saying doctor about Please expand on nicotine as one of our co-hosts here choose his nicorette gum sure is that correct? It's not what what are you looking for? I'm pleased I do a zin a zin combo Okay, I have a lot to say about this before I do that just very quickly There's there First of all, I want to put a full disclaimer. I have no financial relationship to what I'm about to describe in any way There's a beautiful study Published and it's on PubMed. I can send you guys the link if you want and I learned about this from an ER doc out here in Los Angeles who need to keep himself healthy during the winter season and acetyl cysteine also called knack Is a glutathione precursor? There's a beautiful study showing that when they people signed up for a study where they would where they were deliberately exposed to people who had flu Okay, and they they either got knack two or three times a day at about six hundred and nine hundred milligrams per day or not But okay, but sorry just just describe what knack is because you said that long word. I don't know what that is An acetyl cysteine it's a precursor to something called glutathione which is used in a bunch of different cellular processes normally I think you don't need this right you don't need elevate glutathione I know it's all the rage now to get glutathione drips and that sort of thing. I have a I have a more conventional opinion about all that But if you feel like you're coming down with something or you're going to be exposed to things or Jason you mentioned that you're heading off to New York You've got work to do you need to recover more quickly The data on avoiding getting sick by taking six hundred to nine hundred milligrams of an acetyl cysteine Two or three times a day When you're sick getting sick or trying to avoid getting sick is quite robust in fact There's a huge difference in the number of people all exposed to the same virus that flu virus in this case that Did not contract the virus some still did it's in the high 20s But had they not taken it the control group was somewhere close to 80% it's pretty impressive and And obviously check with your doctor this kind of thing But that's the one thing you know we hear about zinc echinacea all this stuff It's the one thing that the peer reviewed research actually shows can help stave off Fluids are any downsides would taking it constantly Some people will take a little bit each day It is a little bit of what's called a mucolytic so we'll make your nose run just a little bit more It's actually used to treat cystic fibrosis at very high doses which is a build up a fluid in the lungs So it's a well-known mucolytic so it's going to help you drain out more as well But no there's really no downside he wants to drain out he all he heard was drain out Losing water weight I'm happy I have a feeling that's related to previous this guy wait a second wait a second We're not going to an hour is not going to be enough time with you are in Sean. I we have so many You know but so many boxes dream We're gonna want to know if our friend is I want to know if our friend yeah if our friend is safe Because there's been because there's been so much and I want to set it up by saying There's been so much about nicotine is good for you people are now saying it's great All all this sort of stuff and so I want to hear once and for all what your take is on nicotine and the various delivery systems great nicotine Is a very interesting stimulant it is a stimulant sure but it's perhaps the only stimulant that also relaxes you at the same time Thank you Andrew for coming on the podcast So that that you that's a very unique property right gives you that alert but focused kind of puts you in the groove That is so alluring to humans so much so and I'm gonna avoid going into a history about nicotine But let's just say for hundreds of years But in particular in the last hundred years humans have figured out ways to get nicotine into their brain and we know that smoking vaping dipping and snuffing All cause cancer and I did put vaping in there vaping is perhaps safer than smoking But still causes lung damage the contaminants etc vaping is bad I mean the science the science isn't back yet on on with the burning of the metal and all that kind of stuff And and I will say anecdotally when I tried to use one of the vaping products I'm not going to say which one I increased my blood pressure it increased my anxiety 10 fold and I went back off it Yeah fit I'll take a hard stance obviously smoking we now know Still cool. Yeah, no one dips or snuffs really are people per dip but they don't know my grandfather used to snuff Used to put a little bit on his yeah mind yeah literally putting tobacco up the nostrils Yeah, you can even imagine yeah, okay. Well, okay, so here's the deal We went from smoking dipping vaping. It's nothing then we moved to what they used to call electronic cigarettes vaping And then now oral nicotine is The main mode of delivery nicotine itself is not carcinogenic This is very important doesn't cause cancer right? It's a stimulant that relaxes you as I mentioned It does raise blood pressure and it increases vasoconstriction Vasoconstriction is just a clamping off with the little capillaries and vessels in particular in the periphery You know in the fingers in other extremities and in the brain and You know strokes and other things like that are cutting off a blood supply to small regions of the brain So if your blood pressure is already high not a good idea If your blood pressure is naturally low and you're doing other things for instance sauna To phase with dilate Once a day or several maybe a few times a week at minimum or a hot bath if you're traveling or hot shower Taking some effort especially before bed to make sure that your capillaries are dilated not taking nicotine too late in the day There is a space where I can sit I can now safely say what I'm about to say which is there is evidence Let me do this backwards People with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's if they take nicotine don't seem to get better However, there is decent evidence in animals and humans that nicotine Not delivered by vaping dipping smoke here snubbing right Can be protective against Parkinson's and Alzheimer's because oh because it offsets seems to protect neurons against disease generation, which is the hallmark feature of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. That said, I'm going to feel very comfortable saying what I just said, but some people are going to say, "Wait a second, I don't want people starting to take nicotine to avoid getting Parkinson's and Alzheimer's." The blood pressure effect, the mild anxiety effect for certain people, is significant. And here's the biggie, and then I'll just kind of peel back and hear what you guys have to say about this. The biggie is that it is highly nicotine, delivered in any form, is highly, highly habit forming. Do we call it addicting? Addicting is, you know, continued use despite harm to self or others. I call addiction a progressive narrowing of the things that bring you pleasure. By those two definitions, it's hard to call nicotine addicting. And yet I know many people that start with one pack of zinoday, one gum, one four milligram gum, pretty soon it's two, pretty soon it's four, pretty soon it's a canister every three, four days. So if it's not addicting, it's highly habit forming. So that's, you know, those are, I'll occasionally take a piece of nicotine, but I don't do it very often. I won't do it more than once every couple of weeks because I love the potent effect. The problem is- Just to get through the day or something, you mean? No, if I'm doing a particularly long session of writing or a particular long podcast. But here's the thing, if you take up stimulant of any kind, caffeine, nicotine, any stimulant of any kind regularly, pretty soon you need it just to get to baseline. Right. Most of us drink 90% of the adult population of the world drinks caffeine every single day just to feel at their normal levels of alertness. And the reason there's so few studies on caffeine that are really solid is because no one wants to go through the woods, you'd have to go into caffeine withdrawal for two weeks to be- I don't drink, that's why I don't drink caffeine. You seem to have a lot of energy. I don't think you need caffeine whereas I need caffeine. That's not why. Like you seem very alert like you're why, like you have an alertness to you. Well, I don't. You need, first of all, I just want to say again, it's not like you started, you're like early on, you're like, I'm not going to drink coffee because I don't want to be my baseline to have to be- No, no, not that. No, that's not why. But I didn't want to drink coffee at, you know, in high school and stuff when people are drinking, because I, I saw what people went through when they're like, uh, don't bother me. Like, I don't want to be that person that I can't talk to you until I've had caffeine, you know, I'm angry until I, I'm not woken up until I have caffeine. So I recognized that and I didn't, I never wanted to be that person. So then I never drank coffee, I've had soda, but I don't really drink soda anymore. And so, um, yeah, that's it. I mean, that's the reason I avoided cannabis. I don't have anything, you know, I, I think cannabis has for, for some people, it can activate psychosis, high THC, for some people, they seem to be able to take it and not really have too much trouble with it. The people I knew growing up, growing up, excuse me, who used a lot of cannabis, when they didn't have access to their cannabis, they were pretty difficult to be with. Oh really? To be with- They had this kind of, they were irritable, yeah. And we will be right back. And now back to the show. I've always said that there's nobody grumpier than a stoner who's not stoned. They're always the grumpiest people and there's a real, you can really draw a pretty firm line there. And there's, we're saying, JB, that people who like to- JB just took a breath. P-brake I think. Cannabis. And when they're not, when they're not using, can be prone to being grumpy. Thoughts? Oh wait. So. Take it easy, man. Yeah, he just wanted to grab some nicotine and some cannabis. You're saying when people who use cannabis, they get grumpy when they're not using it? Yeah. When they don't have access to it. Like, because I was saying, JB, I was saying, I don't drink caffeine because I don't want to be like a grumpy person until I reach my base, you know. I might be a tough person to gauge on that because I think my set sort of default idol is, I wouldn't say grumpy, but is, is, you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I sit at the back of the room and doesn't do a lot of talking, but I'll throw a bomb every once in a while. That's right. And then leaves. You know, but, but does that make me, I don't know, I've got to work on my personal- No, you don't get the beer, what I was thinking of. I was thinking about chronic weed smokers. Yeah, chronic weed smokers. You know, yeah. No, no, no, that's not. Cannabis is definitely here to stay. It's kind of amazing how much the- Yeah, yeah. The reality is changing is people sold everywhere. There are some real issues. I think the big one that's very overlooked is that everyone talks about, oh, the, you know, the weed is so much stronger now than it used to be. It's true, the THC levels are much higher. But here's the thing. I had a researcher on my show who specializes in cannabis research. And he said, when people take edibles, that's when they tend to go through the, like, the quote, not overdose, like, lethal overdose. But they take, it's very hard to gauge the kind of plane of high when people take edibles if they don't take them regularly. That's what lands people in the ER with a psych- That's right. Yeah, me too. And people who are prone to psychosis definitely need to avoid high THC, a lot of the madness you see out there. When you're eating, it's hard to know how much is too much, because, like, I might be hungry and the cookies look good. That's the problem, dude. They're frownies. Yeah, I've, I've owedied on THC a couple, not OD, but I've taken too much THC a couple times. And it was just like, I was lying on the bed one time I took so much and I was like rocking and I'm like, Scotty, Scotty, and he's like, it's okay, it's going to be okay. And I go, God, it's been like three or four hours. He goes, it's literally been two minutes. I was like freaking out. I slept in my eyes open the whole night. It was awful. It was terrible. I can't, I can't. I was nice. Yeah. Well, people who take cannabis to sleep of any kind and any amount, they're getting no REM sleep, no rapid eye movements. That's interesting. That's interesting. Everyone that comes off cannabis, they are talking about how incredible their dreams are, how vivid their dreams are. You get a REM rebound. REM is when you consolidate memories, when you learn the most information, you consolidate what you've learned. REM is essential, just a little tip outside of cannabis for anyone that wants to increase the amount of REM sleep they get. There's a wonderful trick, which is you'll have to adjust the thermostat if you don't have a way to adjust the temperature of your bed, but either way, increase the temperature in your sleeping environment in the last hours of sleep. So, you want the room cold to fall asleep and stay deep sleep, but toward morning, even if you have to heat up the room as you get toward morning and your REM sleep will increase fairly. I won't do it again. I won't do it. You won't do it. And would you say that your REM sleep is really good? I mean, it's okay. So, maybe you should do it. No, but I mean like what wakes me up is when it's too hot. Are you saying doctor that if a good, if I'm dreaming a lot and I'm kind of remembering a bit of my dreams, is that mean I'm getting REM? Yes. Especially if the dreams are vivid dreams. We tend to get more REM toward the end of the night and more deep sleep at the beginning of the night. The way to get the brief description of this is that at the beginning of the night, you go into a deep, slow, wave sleep. That's more about bodily repair. The dreams are kind of unusual. They don't really have a lot of emotional content. The way to maximize the amount of deep sleep in addition to not drinking caffeine to close to bed, etc., all that is to try and get to bed at more or less the regular time plus or minus 45 minutes where all human, right? Because you're going to capture that deep sleep and then the wave passes. The way to maximize your REM sleep is to basically make sure you sleep long enough. So some people need six, some people need eight hours, whatever it is for you to feel refreshed. But that last part of the night, if you can increase the temperature now, Sean, it sounds like you have a high core body temperature. That's great. That reflects a high metabolism. It's a wonderful thing. Super hot. So you might just need to keep the room a little bit cooler than most. This is all relative. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I just say, you're just making me think, so last night this dream, I mean, this is not a joke. I was just thinking about it. It just came to me. I had a sick dream last night. I was in the back of a truck. Yeah. This is totally true with a bunch of dudes. Yeah. And we're all wearing, we're, I'm not making this up. We're all wearing ghillie suits, right? Like, like, like, like, those, like, onesies. You know, like snipers wear when they go when they're like, you know, trying to camouflage themselves. And the rest of our crew went off. And then this one guy goes, you and me, and we jumped off, and we went in, and then we put up a bunch of branches, so nobody knew which way we went. We went off from the regular crew. Sure. And then, and we went off on this path. And we saw this, I'm not kidding, I'm just, and we saw this hill, and we saw this shadow of it. And he's like, those are the russians. And they were up on this hill. And we were going to go and try to outflank these, these, this, like, this, this, this sort of like spets knots group over on the other, on this other hill. Yeah. It was ghillie. I'm just, I'm just, it was so vivid. Well, end of story. Shit, hang on. Let him speak. Well, there's actually, what we say in science, a mechanistic weave here that, that's, so get this. One of the things that happens during REM sleep is your aceto-coling levels are high. Nicotine, believe it or not, is called nicotine because it binds to the nicotinic aceto-coling receptors. People who take nicotine, and I'm not suggesting people to go out and start taking nicotine. And I have no financial relationship to any company that makes nicotine whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah. That when you boost your aceto-coling levels by taking nicotine, activation of that system with nicotine, it actually, it turned into a sniper. No, you'll, well, in your case, yes, but you, you will increase the amount of REM that you get a little bit that night when you sleep. How about that? But will there's one thing I really have to give you? Yeah. And I, actually, for all, all the men out there and on this podcast, but it, it will offset some of the vasoconstriction and blood pressure increase of your nicotine. But I had a guy in my podcast, who's a colleague of mine at Stanford, Mike Eisenberg. He's our, he's our head of male sexual health. and hormone clinic at Stanford. - Here we go. - He's an MDPHD, the top notch doctor in urology in this area, okay. He's a serious scientist in clinician. Every minute, his words, every male, 40 years or older, should be taking low dose, meaning 2.5 to 5 milligrams of Tadalophil each evening. To lower their blood pressure, dilate their capillaries. At higher doses, this is known as Cialis, right? He used for erectile dysfunction. However, this drug Tadalophil was initially developed to treat blood pressure and for excuse me, to dilate the small capillaries of the brain and body in order to encourage prostate health and into encourage brain health. And there's a lot of evidence as to why this is a good thing. It's very inexpensive, it costs pennies now because it's generic for people out there. You do need a prescription. But my colleague, Mike Eisenberg, he didn't tell me to say this, but when we're talking about vasoconstrictors, high blood pressure, stress, stroke, some of the leading causes of death, every male in particular because of the prostate, women should talk to their doctors, whether or not this is applicable to women, but it will help offset some of that blood pressure and vasoconstriction increase well. - That's amazing. You know, now listen, every single day, I know you talk about supplements too. I wanted to bring this up to you because this is what I take and it has the word nicotine in it. I take, I take metformin and then I take nicotinamide, is that I'm missing, and resveratrol. - Okay, so you're taking nicotinamide. - I take it every day for like three years. - Yeah, which is in the NAD pathway. Okay, so let's break these in two. Metformin is to lower blood sugar. - How long does he have to live, just say it. - I mean, you guys, I can do like an age guess thing, but everyone here looks like they're in their late 30s, early 40s, it's gonna rest here. - Yeah, I'm on it. - We can great wise. - Yeah, thanks. Yeah, just turn 50, I feel really good. - We're all mid 50s, we're all over 55. - Wow, but can play, I don't know, what kind of script you got. - Yeah, I mean, we could play these mid 30s, late 30s to know what kind of thing we could play. - Can you even go boyish, like, you know what I mean? Like, he's, by the way, I loved your McCulley Culkin episode. I listened to that. I was like, this guy is so grounded. I can't even imagine being famous from that young of an age, you know, and I mean, and he's like, and hip. He's like, you know, he's hyper fam, and he's just seems so, so grounded. I'm sure he's gone through the wickets to get there, but I was very impressed at the person he isn't. He's talking about, and how grounded he's about everything from a lego is to parenting to acting, and just-- - Yeah. - It was awesome. - It was great. - Yeah, it was great. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Great. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That came up because you were talking about child actors or something. I think I still frame him in "Home Alone." So supplements, to be very clear, I know I often get kind of put into that supplement cold plunge category. Look, get great sleep sunlight. I'm all about sleep sunlight. If you drink alcohol, limit it, offset it with good behaviors, cardio resistance training. I mean, I've been doing that stuff since I was in my teens, and I've been really committed to the behaviors come first. There is a place for some people for supplements. Metformin is lower blood glucose, blood sugar. - Right, which is-- - So I can have a cheese cake, yeah. I mean, it seems to work for some people, especially you tend to run high blood sugar levels. - Very high. - Some people will know the kind of a poor man's version of this is actually a tree bark extract called berberine, which accomplishes the same thing. - I'm writing it down. - I mentioned that because then you would want to stop taking metformin. You obviously want to talk to your doctor. The other thing you're taking, nicotinamide, nicotinamide rabbit side is in the NAD pathway. Okay, NAD got a lot of attention a few years back as a potential longevity-- - Yeah, right. - We all make NAD and levels of it drop off with age. There is no direct evidence yet in humans that increasing NAD, either by taking what's called NR, which is what you're taking, or NMN, can extend lifespan. However, it does seem to increase energy and NR in particular, what you're taking, seems to, there's some good human studies that it can reduce inflammation in the body. - Oh, nice. - And I'll say also, again, no financial relationship to any NAD NR- - Likewise. - I take some lingual NMN in the morning to increase energy and I take NMN. - Oh, okay. - It's covered. You could either take NR or NMN. Here's the interesting thing about increasing NAD. I noticed, this is just anecdotally, but so do other family members, et cetera. When I take NMN or NR, my hair grows very, very fast. My nails grow very thick. - Yeah, me too. - It definitely is doing something for growth of those cells for me. - For me too. - For me too. - There's been no clinical trials on this. I would just continue with what you're doing if you feel good and you have a good doctor that you're working with, and how do you feel? Do you wake up feeling pretty good? - Finally, thank you for asking. I feel great. I feel terrific. No, I feel, I could, we need to do like a side comp, you know, zoom or whatever. - Well, well, what's Sean about him? - Sean, can we come to you? - Can I, it will cost you? Can we get into it a little bit? 'Cause we touched on it, and you do feel good, and you, and you're, - Normally, yeah. - There's very good observations. Sean does have a lot of energy in a release room, but, and I give you a lot of shit about it because I do love you and it's funny, but it's also, I do worry about your sleep, and, Sean, - Nice to meet you, Sean. - Well, sugar, and there might be a correlation in, I'm sure there is, but Sean, and correct me if I'm wrong, you'll go to sleep, but it relatively decent hour, and you'll often wake up, and this has been for years, in the middle of the night. - That's right. - And then you're up, and you send emails and you text, and you do stuff, you make phone calls and you're up, and then that might be three, four in the morning, and you'll be up to like seven. - Correct. - And then you'll go back to sleep for like two hours. - Or two hours, yeah. - And this is really hard. And you'll sleep, what you think is really hard, because you're exhausted, but there's, and this isn't just sort of once a week, this is, that is the rule more than the exception that you expect. - That is correct. - That is how you get your rest. - Yeah, is that bad? Because I read a long time ago, a doctor said, we should all sleep like babies, like if you're tired, lay down, if you're not, get up. - Many nights do exactly the same thing, Sean. And I would, - Call me back. - Okay, great. Yeah, we'll work side by side. - Yeah, cool, cool. - Come on, come on. - You know, a couple of things, I mean, some people, there's a theory that some people have this sleep architecture, just naturally. That theory has been kicked around back and forth. Here's the thing. - Because I sleep worse if I fight it. - Don't fight it. One of the worst things you can do, this is very important for everybody listening. One of the worst things you can do is stay in bed trying to sleep for more than half an hour. Your brain is a prediction and sort of parrot association machine, which is nerd speak for, you will start to associate your bed with a battle. - That's right. - You do not want that. Get up and get out of bed. If it takes you more than 30 minutes to try and get back to sleep, get up and get out of bed, go do something. It is a good idea, however, to have a more or less normal to bed time that's right for you. - Like so hygiene, yeah. - Well, and we know that some people do great going to bed late and some people go to bed earlier. Oftentimes people who wake up at three or four in the morning, or two or three or four in the morning can't get back to sleep, but are still tired and then need to go back to sleep. I'm raising my hand here as one of these people. Sometimes getting to bed a little bit earlier than you happen to be getting to sleep can help. Meaning getting into bed around 9.930 falling asleep at 10. And then it just may be that you're not getting enough of that early, deep sleep that your body craves because it's very easy to push through tiredness. It's hard, we can't make ourselves sleep, but I have some great tools to help you fall back asleep if you want them. But my first question is what time do you go to sleep? - About 11 o'clock, between 11 and 12. I'm always almost sleeping by 12, 15. - Okay, so you're falling asleep quickly. So we could go through a lot of diagnostic aspects. - And you're watching television generally after that point? - No, yeah, I'm looking at it. I'm just looking at your phone. - Like last night we started watching the Godfather Part II and I put that sub-tied one 'cause I couldn't hear. Anyway. - Yeah, so I appreciate that movie. - Okay, I'm gonna give a general theme for everybody because some people are early risers and late night owls. - Before you get it, 'cause this might be a part of it and maybe you can answer this too, 'cause I actually said it to my 17 year old last night. Again, I had heard red whatever, 'cause we're all experts these days, that going to bed earlier, getting those first hours before midnight and the importance of those hours versus post midnight, et cetera. Can you factor that into it too? - Yeah, and it changes across the lifespan. So teens often need more sleep. For social reasons, they're gonna push later sometimes and we just have to live with that. Like no healthy kid wants to go to bed at nine o'clock. - Right, right. - You know, it's just, you know, so I think it's important to eventually, by the time you hit your thirties, to figure out kind of what, when would you go to sleep if the rest of the world didn't exist, when would you wake up? - Yeah. - And what's your natural rhythm? And it may be that this is just your natural rhythm, Shawn. - Yeah, that's it, yeah. - It could be, it is true that you can create lighting environments that are best for sleep and wakefulness and it's very simple. I'll just make this very, very simple. You want very bright mornings and you want dim dark nights. In fact, there's a beautiful study out of the UK that showed with more than 80,000 human subjects that just making your days brighter, working near a window. Obviously, I'm big on getting sunlight in your eyes for singing the morning, but if you can't do that bright, bright lights inside, getting outside as much as you can during the morning, especially before 10 a.m. Whatever you can get, even if you're taking the key. because it's cool, et cetera. And then dimming the lights in the evening, I'm not saying everyone has to go to a red light environment and look like a biohacker, dimming the lights, springing the lights down, dimming your screens. That, in combination, that in combination, greatly offsets depression, anxiety, symptoms of OCD, it's so much so that even if people are in dark environments during the day, if they make their nighttime environment truly dark, they benefit. And there's a whole story about cortisol behind this, but for time's sake, I won't get into it, but this is a very real thing and a modern life has completely inverted this. Our days are too dim and our nights are too bright. So just trying to adjust things a little bit in each direction. - I don't understand how people can sleep with like blacked out curtain. Like if I wake up and it's, you know, and it's bright outside. - You like to trap the underground. - Yeah, exactly. Or like in a drug, you know, a three day drug excursion. But like, so I have to sleep with, right? That's good to sleep with the curtains open. So light comes in in the morning, right? - It's great. I think everyone should invest because it's very inexpensive in a comfortable, I'm asked. You know, are these soft, I'm asked that Velcro in the back, you can adjust it, you know, not one that's just like-- - And let your eyes, and then let your eyes move. - Yeah, let's breathe a bit. And then, you know, you may, try this for me one night, Sean. Get a hold of some ear plugs that are those, they're like wax. There's like a firm wax that you put on the outside of yours. - They don't jam. - Oh yeah, you may be waking up because there's noises in your environment that you're not aware of. And just see if-- - No. - You're coming from-- - You're coming from-- - You know, I'm thinking this is you. I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking. (laughing) - Oh, man. - Scotty, fuck. - No, I sleep with a fan on, 'cause it's sort of block out all noise. And I think you're doing great yet-- - Yeah, my biggest fan. - And if you can afford to get back to sleep a little bit, that sleep that you said used to sleep really hard late in the morning, that's rim. You're dropping back. - Sean, have you thought about Propofal? (laughing) - By the way, I get it. - This is a steady drift. - I get it. - Hey Doc, what got you into medicine? Why do you have a parent that was in it or did you have a fascination with health when you were a kid or both? - Okay, well I'm a researcher, not a clinician. So I profess a lot of things. I'm not gonna, I wanna be clear about that. But my dad's a theoretical physicist. So I was exposed to a lot of science. - So none of it's been proven. (laughing) - Good shit. - That's for what it's worth. - I like that. The internet would say we don't know anything. I mean, it's kind of scary what's happening now with kind of like calling all fact into my question. So here's the deal, my dad is an academic. He came here from Argentina for a generation immigrant and to study physics and I grew up in the South Bay area at a time before the personal computer, et cetera. But I was surrounded by science and technology as a kid and always loved biology. Always loved fish. I've got my fish tanks. I've always been fascinated by animal behavior or human behavior. And then in high school, I went to a quite good public high school. For reasons related to teenage rebellion and home environment, I rebelled against all of that. I got really into the skateboarding concocting in the Bay area and have a lot of friends who went on to start skateboard companies. And I got, we could talk stories about that at some time. But I was actually, Tony Hawk's dad took me to his house when I was a kid. So I got to sleep in Tony's room. No Tony wasn't there. People always ask Tony was there. And I got exposed to a lot of action sports and music culture and really loved that. But it wasn't until college that I circled back to science and biology. I realized I need to get good at something. I wasn't very good at skateboarding. I wasn't going to be an athlete or a musician or anything like that. You look like you could be an athlete though. Well, I've always worked out. I've always done skateboarding, soccer, swimming, running, lifting. I enjoy sports, but I wasn't very good. I wasn't bad, but I wasn't very good. And so I had the good sense, fortunately, and some input to go, you know, what do I really love and what could I get good at? And I love learning and I love teaching. I love learning, I love teaching. That's just kind of like who I am. I can't help myself. And so I got really into psychology and biology. At that time, they called it bio psychology. There was no field of neuroscience. And I started working in a laboratory. And I got super serious about school. So did my undergraduate, my master's, my PhD, did a post-doc at Stanford, eventually, was hired back to Stanford as a gendered faculty member. Running a lab and doing experiments with my hands is pure joy for me. I don't do it these days because of the podcast, but I still teach at Stanford. I still have my position there. And nothing makes me happier than learning information that I think people can make use of and telling them. And not telling them what to do, which is like, hey, you might want to check this out. Or you're not sleeping well, or hey, maybe your sleep is just fine. And I feel like there's been very little opportunity out there in formal education to teach scientists and physicians, clinicians, how to communicate with the general world. And it's usually like they have to market their book or they're talking about their thing. I love actually talking about other people's science. I hardly ever talk about the science from my lab, but we've published lots of papers and have fun doing that. We could talk about that, but I just love learning and teaching. And so, like I said, I'm 50 and I'm just like in bliss. The podcast lets me teach very broadly. Stanford's been super supportive. I still teach the students there. And I guess it was faded through my dad. My mom's a writer, my dad's obviously a scientist. But I feel like the only downside of getting old for me is that I'm excited about what science and medicine are going to discover, and I just want to learn about it. It's not even so much that I can use it. I'm not thinking about eternal life for anything. It's like think about how much we've learned in the last 10 years about gene editing, immunotherapies for cancer. I'll make a hard stance here, and I'm not doing this for any political reasons. I mean, whether or not you were pro or anti or skeptical about vaccines during the pandemic, these mRNA technologies are incredible for cancer. Let's just leave. Let's just, you can edit this out if you need to. Well, let's leave COVID-19. Well, let's get into chemtrails after this. But no, but these, you know, I went on Bill Maher and talked about this, and I take a lot of heat for this, 'cause I'm sort of at the interface between the standard academic medical community and the kind of wellness, I hate the word, a biohacker community. And they're really like at loggerheads, but the truth is, there are pearls of wisdom all over the place. But science and medicine are the bedrock of everything I described. It's the only reason we even know what glutathione is, or that light and temperature impact sleep cycles. And I mean, it's so important. And I'm like, I'm on a mission to teach what I think is the best of science and medicine as I can see it, so that people can make it useful to themselves, and understand that one of the reasons, one of, that we are where we are these days, it is because of science, and I just love it. We'll be right back. And back to the show. - There's so much noise out there, and there's so many people out there now professing like a lot of people learned about that, they should sleep with their room at 68 degrees, because they heard Tom Brady say that in an interview. Right, so like we're, everybody's getting their, like these little bits and pieces, and they're going, I heard that you should, I just did it myself. I heard you should get the sleep before midnight. I heard that you should get this. The vaccines, I heard this, and there's so many people out there who are speaking about in this space, whether it's wellness or medicine, or whatever they're calling themselves. And you even, I forgot the term you used, the sort of the, what would you say, the sort of the cold plunge? - Of the biohacking. - The biohacking cold plunge crew. Everybody's a fucking expert. There's all these fucking people, and there's a little bit of fatigue, 'cause part of me is like, God, it feels like, I want to put everybody in the same bath. They're all anti-vax, fucking Kim Trail, fucking nobody, don't trust the government, don't trust anything. And there's just so much of that out there that it's like, what the fuck do we do? What is, what is a person to do? - Yeah, so what I like to do is take a step back and think, okay, you know, why do people end up in these bins, right? But like, not how did we get here, but kind of like, where are people showing up to the table? And I think that I said a lot in favor of science and medicine. I'm now gonna say, as an insider, what I also know, which is that the field of science and medicine has done a mediocre job of explaining why the why behind things. They tell people what to do, but people like to understand the why. They, people are deeply rational at some level until they're not, right? And so I think that something I really believe in is that how people come to learn information, strongly impacts whether and how they use that information. One of the reasons I do longer form podcasts where I explain mechanism, okay, is because I do think that if you understand that bright light, cold water, exercise and caffeine will spike your cortisol in the morning. And guess what? You want your cortisol high early in the day. And dim light, lack of caffeine, cooler temperatures will lower your cortisol in the evening and help you sleep. Once you understand that you want that seesaw tilted high in the morning, high cortisol, you want this. I don't care if you're male, female, pregnant, young, old, whatever. And low cortisol in the evening, lower your heart, right, do some long exhale breathing, et cetera. Once you understand there's a mechanism behind it, then when somebody says, "Cool, plunge is great," and you say, "Yeah, but early day makes more sense than later day," or how about bright light early in the day. Make sense. You need your cortisol high cortisol sets away front of energy for the day. You want it low later in the day Once people start to understand a little bit of mechanism about dopamine about cortisol about sleep then all the stuff coming at them They can filter it through a rational filter wait. Does this make sense based on the bulk of what we know now when it comes to things like Vaccines and prescription medication. Let's take a slightly less Barbed wire version of this, but that's very Timely which is all this stuff about the GLP ones right people are saying. Oh, you know so many people are on GLP What is that? It's very interesting The weight loss it the weight loss thing. Oh, oh, like ozampica whatever very very interesting peptide that we knew about from Helo monsters you know is discovered in Helo monsters these reptiles that only need to eat once every year or so a smart Biologist said how come they don't get hungry all year long turns out they have very high levels of GLP one Circulating isolated the peptide. We now GLP ones is perhaps the first Really effective treatment for obesity and diabetes amazing and it's also turning out to be very effective That we need more data, but for people who have what they now call alcohol use disorder can really reduce cravings for alcohol So what happened was the medical community came out and I know that's what they call alcoholism now Yeah, everything. Yeah, it's a pseudonym Hi, my name is Will and I'm a knuckle used to sort of Interesting the only people the people who have no trouble with the word alcoholic Yeah, I have a lot of friends. I go to meetings like they are like alcoholics, right? Former alcohol they go they're part of right, but everyone, you know, anyway Here's what's really I think so vital for us to understand is that you know if you look at the GLP ones They're very effective at lowering body weight They are high cost because they're still not generic versions of them out there the the wellness biohacking community was very Disparaging of this like oh, this is just a shortcut. This is bad for you There were some side effects and indeed you have to be careful with these things I'm not taking them, but I know people that do and they can be taken safely But the moment that the GLP ones hit the compounding pharmacy market and it was inexpensive It was suddenly like the the wellness biohacking community was like oh, okay, this is great It's just like a supplement no problem. So people are just too entrenched in The camp they're in I like to think well, I don't know you tell me I like to think that there is a league of reasonable people out there that represents the majority of people that are not so polarized They're not talking about chemtrails and now I'm gonna get hate from the chemtrail people I don't believe in chemtrails I believe there's a chemtrail. I have no idea what these are the there are people that think that they the government is using Chemicals from airplanes across the sky to to reflect sunlight and block the sun to reduce the effects of global warming etc Or or depend on the day. Oh, yeah, yeah, there were plans to put a mirror in space Not that long ago to reflect sunlight and they and they try to conflate it They try to conflate it with cloud seating, which is a totally different which has been done since the 50s Mirrors in space is something I've been a proponent of Looking look back into time effectively. He went we had Neil deGrasse Tyson and Jason a very robust conversation We feel about time travel about time travel Use the speed of light and stuff like that doc you wouldn't understand No, but my father would so I'm so wait and very so yeah, so that in there so that the important thing I Here's what I'm hoping we're 2026. Here's what I'm hoping that the There are what are you most excited about 20 20s? There are most because there's so many useful tools that don't involve taking anything Supplement or drug that are very useful. There are also very useful prescription drugs out there that have helped save lives And I you know, and I think I think people are coming to that clarity now and there are also some over-the-counter Supplement things that can help that are not as extreme as either but I think that We are finally seeing a blending between the silos of these extremes of conspiracy theory versus unless there's a double-blind placebo controlled study There's no way I'm going to do it type people. Yeah, yeah, and and I think Los Angeles to be fair I might have lived it west of interstate five my entire life in Northern San California in the middle of the state Los Angeles is the place where this stuff got blended together Okay, and as like because people here are experimental, okay? They're experimental they like to try things and see what works and things get marketed and get put out there. There are no bad There are no bad suggestions. You know, especially that right right right back to Jason's original question. So your dad was I'm kidding. So I do want to do I was thinking he's still active as an 82-year-old Scientist and he's physically well. I love that. Yeah, I love that still super strong He doesn't look like he doesn't look like that dude who's trying to biohack his age, right? Oh, not at all No, no, no. He's quite viral and robust. Oh, good. Well, would you agree that our generation like us for ding dong's have a good shot of living to be a hundred that this generation? Yeah, yeah, really a hundred yes, so I think 120 is probably the genetic limit natural genetic limit on age. I think At this point at this point I look I I posted something Yesterday that I just found online of a confirmed 90 year old guy not on any hormone organization. I just saw that twenty twenty pushups and real pushups and the best part is in front of his kids and grandkids He's got his family there takes his classes off gets down on the floor and he does ten full like chest to the floor full Reppett full range push up stops midway teases his son about doing partial reps and then goes back and does the remaining ten and then stands up and Basically guys 90 years old. It's so clear that yeah because to answer your question Jason By drinking a little bit less focusing on sleep a little bit more working on limiting our stress a bit or a lot more Doing things that really bring us meaning this is huge We know this from all the blue zone stuff, but from everything else Social connection like really trying to put the phone away and drop in with people and really it's such a critical It's wonderful. It's also biological right is biopsychological how it benefits us plus You know nutrition's gotten better. I think that it's harder. The problem is it's expensive to access good food Right, but nutrition's gotten better than it was in the 90s We're no longer messing around with trans fats not everyone's smoking If you're using nicotine hopefully you're using it a nerd zone, you know, I know a lot nerds I'll tell you I know a Nobel Prize winning neuroscientist everyone in my community knows who he is and the first time I met him about 15 years ago He chewed no fewer than five pieces of nicotine or a meeting and I said why do you do it? He said it's protective against Parkinson's and Alzheimer's And he said what you don't want to smoke because they'll give you cancer that so that that's an anecdote But you know, so I want to think of photo that you and me. We're gonna go out We're gonna go to we're gonna get a cheese. We're gonna go get a big Mac and smoke a second We're gonna post it online just to fuck with people's brains Just fuck it. Just just mess with them. We should be clear. I need a cheeseburger. Yeah good. I eat meat cheese fish eggs I mean eight fruits and vegetables, you know, I eat like a human I eat like an adult the thing to do is eat like an adult Slurp your food. Don't drink your food. So what do you have for breakfast today? Be honest. Go. I haven't had anything except what was coming up What's coming up? I probably have a cinnamon roll There's a cinnamon roll in there. There's also a chocolate chip cookie and I'm sure they're oh my Yeah, but I'll probably have you take them at Foreman. Would you have yesterday? What would you have yesterday morning when I called you and you were on the way You're in the car with Sean. I did really good. I had carrots and cucumbers dipped in ranch. No, no And then when you drove Oh, I went to Portillo's. Yeah, yeah, I drove to Portillo's in Boina Park. There's one in Boina Park So sugar is your thing. How's Sean? Yeah, it's too bad. Anyway, listen, Andrew We don't have a couple minutes left. We're taking you way too long And I just want to know just like as fast as you can because I don't want to keep you is my My mom died of Alzheimer's and I I like talking about it just to learn more about like what causes it and how to prevent it and I Took that is it AP01 AP04 gene or whatever you I don't have the gene It doesn't mean I can't get it, but I I'm less likely to get it because I'm not right pre-determined through Jeans, but what you know I I mean anytime a Report comes out that we're three to five years away from a cure or three to five years away from Something positive about Conquering this horrible horrible disease. I don't know if you've been around it, but it's just awful to see somebody go through it Is that the pharmaceutical companies like making sure we don't come up with the cure? Like what are the realistic, you know feelings about Yeah, the future of of of cure for it. Yeah. Well first of all, I'm really sorry It's devastating. I don't think people can understand until they see someone who's alive, but deteriorating and yeah, yeah, it's awful. It's awful The pharmaceutical companies are absolutely working very very hard to try and solve this problem as our many labs I'll just put in a plug funded by US taxpayers I'm not you know, I have to say my lab was funded by NIH for many years This is the this is the this is the thrust of Discovery not just in the United States, but all over the world like this I'm working hard behind the scenes to try and make sure that funding's maintained Those discoveries get turned over to companies which farm a companies which test drugs on animals and then humans So it is happening. Yes, they're not trying to keep us sick those theories need to go Also, think about the finite if it was just purely purely financial incentive the person that comes up with that treatment for Alzheimer's yeah, of course like I can say right right right what can we do? Obviously blood sugar management seems to be one important piece It used to be, people were starting to talk about, quote, unquote, type three diabetes, not a whole thing. Some people do seem to benefit from a ketogenic diet for offsetting some age-related dementia, but not everybody. But it has to be truly ketogenic, and it's hard to stay on a ketogenic diet. Some people, not everybody, but managing your blood sugar, it does seem that the effects of exercise and quality sleep, and avoiding environmental toxins, and I can talk about that in a moment, are significant toward offsetting age-related dementia. People with these gene repeats are higher risk. I'm great to hear that you don't have these repeats. But everyone should be trying to up, I hate the word optimize, trying to optimize it on a daily basis, I should say, in real life context, get the best sleep they can. It's so clear that resistance training, doing some for women and men, this is like a whole new world now, right? You used to tell women that you need resistance training, they'd be like, I don't want to be too big. This kind of thing, resistance training for strength in particular, so if you can get strong without getting bigger by training with very, you know, safety, you know, these are the things. Low weights, tons of reps, or okay, I would go the other direction, but in any case, to maintain it, I don't know, it's not sufficient to just walk and guard and do yoga. I'm sorry, I know there's some yogis. I agree. It's not sufficient. And you need weight, you need weight. And so maintaining, maintaining healthy blood sugar levels. Which goes back to, do you lift, bro? I mean, honestly. Well, now it's a few lift, girl, because I'll tell you, I have a female training partner and she's a beast, but she's not big, she's just super strong. There, women and, you know, I have a mom in her 80s, I'm trying to tell her, like, listen, you need to lift heavy for you objects. You need to do this. People, when they stop moving, I know it sounds like the usual advice, but when they stop moving their feet back to the, well, there's feedback to the brain that may help kickstart some of that neurodegeneration. That said, there are some genetic predispositions. Nowadays, we're all much better off, because we all know that don't do. The environmental toxin thing is interesting. There was this data that living next to a golf course, put people more at risk for Parkinson's. These are correlative things. We are now discovering, okay, this goes in the opposite direction, where people were, you know, all this, like, round up stuff and, you know, cancer-causing agent that turns out, that was a real thing. Yeah. You know, so we have a friend who's limiting exposure to environmental toxins to the extent that you can is going to be good, but you don't need to be hyperparanoid about these things. I believe there will be a solution. I just think like your time is your time. Like you're, you know, eat right, exercise, do good things. I'm going to save an hour. And stay, and stay, and stay so engaged. You know, my big push for 2026, I know we're out of time, but, and I forgive me, I like to firehoses. No, I love people. I love it. Useful things. I know they come here to hear you guys, not the kids. No, no, no, no, no. Why are you kidding me? This is fascinating. So, is we, like any technology humans build, it takes about 10, 15 years before we go, oh my goodness, we really screwed up. And we're now realizing that with, here's the thing, people will listen to things for a long time, but they like to view things now in rapid succession. And when you put your phone away, it's going to feel a little boring for a bit. Good. Your brain, it's like a palate cleanser between life events. Getting your phone away, it'll feel like, you'll feel restless, you'll feel bored, engaging with people socially or even with your thoughts, getting back to that a bit. I have a lock box for my phone that, that it's a, it's locked in there for portions of the day. And it's rough, right? You're like, online, all these movies, all this stimulation is very exciting. Listening to podcasts is great. Audio, long form stuff is great. I agree. But this is my push, people. Put your phone away for a short while and drop in with people. And yes, it's going to feel boring for a bit. But then that's where, from a health promoting and kind of life enriching stuff, that's where the good stuff is. I completely agree. And again, I see it, you know, because we, you know, Jason, I both have teenagers, we see with the kids on the phones, et cetera. And I see with my own kids, as my, I've mentioned this many times, my big regret was giving my kids phones too early. But then I see it in myself. And if you guys, if you can, and this, again, this is just an observation, I started noticing in public places where I'd, I'd, I'd just sort of try to clock people on their phone, not just randomly. But especially people going in, like let's say going into an elevator or going to a restaurant they order a coffee, I was in New York last week, and I watched people when they had, they make an order and then they have a minute where they got to wait. And everybody just out of habit pulled out of their phone. And sometimes they do it out of insecurity, because they don't want to look like they got nothing to do. Right. So they want to look like they're doing something. Otherwise they feel exposed, and they feel too vulnerable in that moment to just stand there and be present. Check it out. It's really amazing. Fascinating. If you start watching people in stores, in restaurants, we'll do it in an elevator will, I'll, of course, for an elevator, and I'm with somebody, and I'm just, I'll pull up my phone, because I'm, what am I going to say? But, by the way, and the other guy does it too. Super entertaining. Don't know how to engage. You know, it's fun. It's a, it's a not pull it out on an elevator and just stare at someone. And just, yeah, the whole time. Everybody's looking up towards the door. You just, you just stand, looking inwards and then wait till they look at you and then just raise your eyes. I was like, what? I'm not on my phone. It's weird, isn't it? Right. And also bring back the art of winking. You know, start winking at people. Slow winking. Really awesome. It's awesome. Really nice. Andrew, we're winking at you. Winking back. Winking back. Come in today. Honestly, this is so great. Like, I could listen to you for hours and a half. Yeah. And so I just, I'm a huge fan and I love. Thank you for starting the year off just to rights. Yeah. Well, thanks, guys. I want to say, and I know I'd speak for many, many people. I'm a huge fan of what you guys, and I know everyone's always jokin' you guys, but here's the deal. No. From a very young age and many of your cases and, and, but still now you, you really enriched the world with really entertaining and really like stimulating thought provoking stuff. And I think, you know, long form podcasts, movies, TV, that stuff, I actually think can enrich us in a, in a real way. And so that's not what I'm referring to when I talk about the phone stuff and I think we all know. So I just want to say thank you. It's, it's a, it's an honor and pleasure to be here and I'm a big admirer of the work you do. Thank you. All right, thanks, dude. Thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you, pal. Keep fighting. The good fight. Thank you so much. I love you. Yeah, you have to come back and have so many more questions. Anytime. Please. Yeah. No. He's one of those guys that he kind of set it, that he breaks down all that information so you can digest it in a way, you know, that we can understand it. And like, how does the person know all that? Yeah, it is great. That's something that didn't, yeah, that didn't exist. Well, I mean, what, like Web MD and stuff like that started to like, you could, you could just go there and start asking a bunch of questions. You didn't need to, like, make a doctor's appointment and stuff. And now it's like chat, GPT will kind of break it down a little bit more for you. Right. But these, these podcasts or even like TikTok or Instagram, you get these little bite size pieces of information. But as he said, you do have to kind of like thin out what is just the entertainment crap and what science-based stuff. Right. And what science-based stuff, yeah. Yeah. And like, what's conspiracy shit? And what, that's what I was saying. Like, there's so many people out there. At least he's the guy who's, you know, a professor at Stanford. So you have to try to like, I'm going to try to lean towards the people who have a little bit more sort of academic credentials. Right. I mean, science is still science and the other stuff is sort of, I guess he's always been there, but it never had as we've talked before. It never had the platform, the amplification, the microphone that it does today. And so it does seem like, well, what do you know? Like, now, like, you never know what's real. No, it's just that the noise just got noisier. The science is still there and still valid. You just have to self edit this new level of volume for nonsense and put it back down to its right size. Yeah. I mean, like, and all the stuff that he does at Stanford and like, he's in the optimal like me. So you couldn't even, you couldn't even, Sean, you know what I was going to say? Okay. You know what I was going to say? And then just basic, just because you have to, no, hang on. I think that Sean, this is what I wanted to get to because you've had a few and I can feel you building up. Because you couldn't even get through your own setup. No, that's what I want to say. As I heard you, as I heard him talking to you and you're talking about your sleep, and I was thinking like the different things, the light, the sound, the thing, the bedtime. And maybe, maybe all you really need for a good night's sleep is just a good old fashioned love. Bye. Bye. It's going to do, um, I was going to do neuro-biosis, smartness, smartness, smartness is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant-Terry, Rob Armjav, and Bennett Barberco.