[MUSIC] Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, a podcast presented by the law firm, Bonshea and King. I'm your host, Kim Wolf Price. In this episode, we're speaking with Gabriel Oberfeld, a senior counsel at the firm who joined us recently in the New York City office, gave practices in our healthcare practice group. Welcome to the podcast. Gabe, excited to have you here. >> And I'm excited to be here. Thank you, Kim. >> Terrific. Well, of course, there are many practice-related topics we could focus on, and we will get to a few of those. But I'd like to do something sort of unusual for us on the podcast and focus quite a bit on your background and your road to joining bond, because I think it's really important. It's an important part of your current practice because there's public interest work, public service work, and then association work on your resume. And I think that brings a real depth to what you can bring to clients into the practice here. So do you mind if we kind of focus that way to be? >> That sounds terrific. >> Great. All right. Well, I'm excited because even though we've talked a couple of times, we haven't had the chance to meet in person yet. So we're getting to know each other and hearing pieces of each other's backgrounds. But before we get too far into our conversation on the podcast, I also think it's important to start with a few moments about the people that we're talking to, and we get a little bit of more personal background. So the listeners get to know who's speaking. So would you mind telling us a little bit about where you grew up, went to school? >> So I'm a born and raised New Yorker. I have lived in Manhattan and currently in Brooklyn. Childhood in Manhattan, including high school. I subsequently went to law school in Manhattan at Fordham. Before that, I was an undergrad at Brown University. And I had an opportunity as well to study journalism at the Northwestern Medell School. Following law school. >> That's great. All right, wow. So okay, born and raised in New York, so you took a test to figure out what high school you would go to, is that correct? >> Well, I went to an independent school. I got in when I was too young to know how to do that. And that's really where I grew up. Many of my close-life friends are from there. >> That's fantastic. And you live with your family in Brooklyn now, you said, right? >> That's right, yes. But in Prospect Heights, right in your van army plaza. >> That's a great neighborhood. That's a great neighborhood. Lots to do in parks and easy commute into the city. So lived in New York City, your whole life, took a few years in Rhode Island. And then a year out, less a little bit. >> Yes. And while I was at Northwestern, I also had the opportunity to be based in Washington, DC for a portion of that. Focusing on reporting with legislative and regulatory affairs as my focus, working on the Hill and sending out copy across the country about the same. >> That's fantastic. Well, as a former college paper editor-in-chief, I love that you have a journalism particularly. And I was going to be a lot of great conversations. I think we can-- >> Yeah, I'm one of those two as well, the Brown and the Brown Daily Eirled. >> That's, and I've led the Colgate-Murrow News. That's awesome. Very good. Well, see what we learn about each other. That's why I like starting with that part. And I think it's interesting for our listeners as well. So thanks, Gabe. I really appreciate it. >> Of course. >> I think this is an important part of our conversation. And I'd like to talk a little bit more about your education because you have an unusual path where you earned your JD and then an MS in journalism. So what prompted that decision? >> Sure. So throughout my life, really, I've had this passion for research, for digging deeper. And of course, there are many different ways to express that. And as a high schooler, I got myself involved in journalism even at that point. I edited that paper way back when. >> Yes. >> And I knew going into college that journalism was something that was a passion of mine. Also though I had a complimentary interest, if not a real curiosity about governance and history. And so in college, I focused on journalism, which in many respects, was my major, particularly when I was leading the paper, although unofficially, of course. And also I studied history and political science. And in that mix, I was always focused on the thorny policy questions and trying to understand and peel off the proverbial layers of the onion. And so I left college knowing that professionally, there were a lot of different ways in which I could express that passion. And law was one that made a lot of sense because of the ways in which my understanding of government and policy, I could then work on issues whether for clients or otherwise around systems change that would really be benefited by that background. And so in law school, I focused in many respects on those kinds of activities that really gave me that entree into the policy questions that really were what drove me to be part of the legal community in the first place. For instance, I worked extensively in the immigration rights clinic and I also focused on those aspects of the law relating to free speech. And otherwise the press freedoms of journalists, my note way back when was focused on press rights actually in the context of the aftermath of September 11th. And so I did my best in law school to try to figure out essentially how this person who has this real connection to journalism brings that through line in to a legal practice. I realized that there was more I could do however. And so I looked for a journalism program where I could explore that nexus a little bit more deeply. And so in specific, I was attracted to Northwestern because it has a long and very established record of bringing law and journalism together. Many of the faculty members, in fact, had JD's themselves when I was there. And I got into the issues at that intersection really from day one and happy to tell you more about them. That's fantastic. And I do think that we're seeing more and more. Obviously we see a lot of journalists who have JD's. As you mentioned, you're a faculty when you are at Northwestern. And I think we're seeing that more and more. But I like the fact that you're in a journey with that master's. You know, you're using it in a slightly different way. So I think that's very interesting. So you started your legal career though after you finished your master's program. Is that correct? Yes, yes. In a way, and let me just explain because I at Northwestern started to put those pieces together in terms of how I would as an attorney really build out that connection between the two disciplines and also give of myself in all the ways that I could to both the client matters I connected myself with and more broadly the policy issues that I was seeking to affect. And Northwestern is known for founding one of the Bremen and Innocence projects in the country. And while I was there, I got to work very closely on several different cases. And also with a set of professors who helped to cultivate essentially what that day-to-day kind of connection of the two disciplines would mean for me. And I found it to be an immediate and exciting way where I felt like yes, I'd come to some understanding of what this could be. And when I was ready to return to New York City, which again is home, I looked into opportunities with the Innocence project locally in New York, one of the most well-regarded and long standing Innocence projects across the country, the one in the city founded by Barry Schek and Peter Newfell. And so I found my way to the Innocence project as a founding member of its policy department. That's fantastic. So you started in that position. It was policy, but it wasn't health care, which is where we're working our way to a little bit. Can you talk a little bit about that position? So at the Innocence project, I had the opportunity to build from the ground up essentially the legislative and regulatory practice that came from the lessons learned from at that time more than 200 different cases proven to be demonstrably wrongful by way of DNA evidence testing. And essentially, those lessons learned touched on a whole array of different ways in which our justice system could be reformed to prevent the next wrongful conviction. And so what I did was advocate in front of legislative bodies. I worked behind the scenes with the US Department of Justice and it's specific, the Inspector General. My research played key roles in two reports of that office that questioned the validity of various forms of forensic evidence. And ultimately, that's for Senate Judiciary Activity and was part of the groundwork that was essentially the foundation to National Academy of Sciences, a study of the same. And so it was a really exciting work. It was as well in many ways that I understand all the more deeply as I look back on the experience, very much an exposure to health because so much of what justice policy is about are those social determinants of health and the ways that justice policy impacts families and loved ones. And so I saw all those kinds of issues.
issues very plainly and viscerally with the clients I got to know of the innocence project during the tenure there. And I just want to sort of point out, I think wrongful conviction is now something that we hear about more often, but it's because of the work done those many years ago by the innocence project and your legislative and policy group that works for things on to make wrongful conviction more part of our than regular because when I first was out of law school, that wasn't something we were really talking about, even though we should. Yeah, well, I'm very proud to have been part of that conversation. And I learned a tremendous amount about that point of intersection of policy and strategy and foundationally how that connects to the law while in that role. But what I also realized over time was that in order to be a really all the more effective advocate and someone who understood government deeply, not just from a studied perspective, which of course I had the opportunity to undertake, but from an applied vantage point going into government was the best way to really acquire that knowledge. And so my tenure advanced at the innocence project, I turned my gaze to a government opportunity and moved over into the Bloomberg administration. First as a chief of staff in the agency setting and then ultimately in the mayor's office. So how did that transition come about? Really? Was that you seeking that transition? Or was it the sort of the typical, the more work you do, the more people you meet? And then the connections happen. Well, you know, it was a real interest in finding a way into government because I felt like it was time to give back as well to the community in which I was raised with all that I had learned in the policy space. I also had this growing interest in figuring out how to incorporate healthcare in a more day to day way into my professional role. It's important to note that I grew up in a healthcare family. My parents are both doctors and the dinner table conversation was always about essentially the ways in which through healthcare, we can really affect positive change in our society. And you know, my parents are still both practicing physicians. My sister's also one. So I very much in that environment recognize that my choices weren't the same as theirs, but yet I did want to find a way to contribute to our healthcare conversation. And so in coming to New York City government, I focused on the intersection of healthcare with human services work at a really interesting time because that was when much of the conversation around value-based payment was beginning to really take root both in New York City and more broadly in the state. It was around the same time as former governor Cuomo put forth the Medicaid redesign team in its first iteration. And so that time while I was in city government was a really vital one for both looking really again at those social determinants of health and figuring out how CBOs could be more essentially part of our healthcare conversation. And so that opportunity to be an agency chief of staff in that setting was one I really am thankful for and from which I learned a tremendous deal. And then ultimately I found my way into the mayor's office. And the backstory there was really a story about crisis management because during the roughly third year of my tenure in city government, New York City was of course struck with what was a very devastating storm, super storm, sandy. It's devastation of course all comes into a context now that we have continued to live through this pandemic. But I look back on that time and what was very clear was that the elders in New York City, many of whom were my focus because I was an agency chief of staff specifically at the city's department for the aging. The answers for them to keep them safe and well in that moment were really emerging through the lens of that crisis and the more hands on deck that could be provided, the better the city's response would be for those individuals in need. And so I raised my hand and I moved over to lead operations at the Park Slope Armory for those of you who know Brooklyn, it's in South Park Slope and it is near Prospect Park. And there were hundreds, literally hundreds of frail elders who were evacuated to that armory when they're nursing homes and other care sites were flooded on the Rockaway Peninsula and elsewhere across the city. And working with a intergovernmental team involving federal resources, you know, who came through the auspices of the federal emergency management agency, many different city agencies on site as well, New York State Department of Health, I navigated that complex array of agencies working together to find solutions for these individuals. And it was a really critical turning point for me because what I also recognized was through operational excellence. It was another way to really provide that level of commitment to the constituency that brought me into city government in the first place. And so I built up my crisis management skills in that moment. And that then led to an opportunity with the mayor's office to take the further steps, essentially many who were displaced, not just those elders, but across the city did not have places to return right away. And so I worked with the law department and other city agencies, again, as well those intergovernmental players to find long-term solutions, whether through supportive housing or through other creative means. I also in that time led the operations of a network of hotels that provided interim roofs over the heads for those individuals who could not go back to their communities right away. I was just going to say just for the listeners, I don't know that people necessarily realize like the Rockaways, that's beachfront communities. You know, I think people think of New York City, they think Manhattan and high rises, but there's a lot of at sea level and lower places in the city. That's why this type of crisis management, while it was supposed to be a hundred-year storm, became so important because really it was as if these things happened in Miami or other coastal towns, New York City is a coastal town. That's right. And we learned just how important it is to focus on our resilience and otherwise our preparedness. And it was a set of lessons that I brought with me into my next role with the Greater New York Hospital Association family and I'm happy to tell you that more about that. So you leave working for the city and join the Greater New York Hospital Association. Two parts there, of course, please tell us about that transition in your first role, but I didn't really understand association more fully until I worked in association. So at some point if you could give us a little background on what does that mean to work for an association? Can you start with telling us about the transition? Sure. So I mentioned my experience in the mayor's office and as well my understandings that I built in my city government experience around strategy and operational excellence and the really big picture ways in which government connects with providers of all types and at the Greater New York Hospital Association within that family of organizations. What I brought was that understanding of regulatory affairs and the legislative experience going back to my innocence project days and I as well getting to that emergency management and resiliency thread that we just were discussing that knowledge that we needed to do more and to deepen the level of reserve within our community. And so at the Trade Association I wasn't really excited to join because what a Trade Association does is it represents its members. It's for those lawyers out there a 501 C6 and so what it does is it's not you know for say the the nonprofit C3 delivering services in a direct fashion but instead convened in order to essentially work on those issues that are critical to their members strength and and to their vitality over time and so my members included organizations like the Visiting Nurse Service of New York I worked very closely as well with several health systems whether Montefur or New York Presbyterian Northwell and these organizations come to Trade Association's looking for a way to raise their voice as a community and to do so through both excellence and efficacy but as well a skillful deployment of operational knowledge and strategic ingenuity. And so in the Trade Association environment I joined that community of those you know essentially committed to those goals and I entered as a director after I completed my instant in-city government and I concluded as a senior vice president. And all this time that you're there because we'll talk a little bit about that path but are you seeing that journalism degree enhancing sort of everything you're doing with your JD? My knowledge that digging and really focusing on details is critical to understanding any problem permeated everything that I did within the Trade Association.
Association of Ironman is still part of my makeup as a professional today. And journalists, I think, at their core ask good questions if they're doing their jobs thoroughly. And so I am always interested in making sure I'm querying, I'm probing, I'm learning because the more I understand, the more I can help, the more I can be pointed in a direction that ultimately serves the needs of the constituency that I'm backing. Hereupon, of course, those are our clients and the broader communities that we serve throughout New York and beyond. I think besides the good questions, journalism teaches you to listen, which I think is a key for loyering. And it makes you listen, right? Like it teaches you, like, ask the question, don't anticipate, listen to the answer. And especially in association work and then advising clients, that's so important because sometimes we think we know what they want. But once we stop and listen, we can hear a little bit more. If we take the time to put aside whatever preconceptions we may have in a moment and really step into the unknown, really, that comes with any conversation you take on. You can learn and you can move forward in ways that really benefit the parties that you listen to carefully because if you're attuned to what they want and what their needs are, you can do your job that much better. Absolutely. That very well said, yes, absolutely. So if you would walk us a little bit through your time at the Greater New York Hospital Association, sort of focusing most, of course, on your most recent role because I would assume the last year there, there's this particular issue that took a lot of your time and used your crisis management skills. But can you walk us through your time there a little bit? Yes, it was extremely difficult period when we came to the realization of this not going on what once in a lifetime pandemic that we're still enduring. I will talk about my experience there in a moment. But I joined the Greater New York Hospital Association family, focusing on those organizations, delivering human services and other long-term services and supports. I mentioned whether it was those hospital systems that had investments in those domains as well as those organizations like the INS, for instance, that were and remain very critical components of our healthcare delivery environment in the downstate region. And as a director, when I entered, I began the process of building trust with those members more than 80 organizations that affiliated and as well building crisp linkages between hospitals and health systems with those organizations, really building off of that set of issues I was tackling while in New York City government. The early days of the value-based payment conversation I was looking to earlier, that all was such a core part of what I was focused on in the Trade Association and what that ultimately matured into by the time I became a VP there was a suite of more than $200 million worth of projects that came out of something called the Vital Access Provider Program to bring transformation and new connections to organizations within the healthcare community that through innovation could bring their operations into this new and all the more integrated space. Some of the ways that I drove that effort forward included building an independent practice association from scratch, a group purchasing organization, a health insurance collaborative, and also I focused extensively on workforce issues building programming there too. And that in turn laid the groundwork for another $60 million or so of funds invested on workforce issues specifically through a partnership involving both VNS and Y as well as $11.99 SEIU. Oh, so it's funny, I get, you know, we all hear the things but the group purchasing is such a seem so logical but it takes so much effort to pull it together and to sort of pinpoint it and it must have been through listening and paying attention that you're like, wait, we have all of these groups doing this and their members, here's something we could do that would really benefit everyone including the people they serve. Through building the group purchasing portfolio, we created essentially contracting efficiencies that drove down costs and allowed for those savings to be reinvested into patient resident care. So many of these organizations that affiliated with the membership, they have this commitment to serve but ultimately an insufficiency of funding to do it as well as they would like. We're seeing that manifesting of course all the more viscerally as these days of the pandemic continue with so many organizations facing economic strains. But yes, group purchasing was and remains a critical way to bring savings and efficiencies and it was an exciting opportunity to build. Absolutely, it just shows that bringing in the ways that all kinds of clients can be served with someone who has the ability to counsel who has the ability to step back and take a broad look at what's happening and then provide solutions. So this topic I thought when we started the podcast by now we would be this many episodes later, we would not be talking about it as much but he went from super-sormed Sandy with the city and crisis management, you're at the Grid and your hospital association and then are once in a lifetime we certainly hope global pandemic and healthcare is of course our first line. So can you talk a little bit about your last year or so with the association and some of the things, how this impacted your role? It was and it remains such a difficult time but also one where thank goodness we're seeing some promise and there are really notable pockets of improvement that I think we can all say point to better things ahead. And in the worst of the first wave of course we didn't have any of this knowledge that we've cleaned in the more than 18 months since. What we knew at that point was there was this devastating crisis that we're beginning to hear glints about from overseas, first of course in Asia and Wuhan and then ultimately the devastation in Italy that really preceded what transpired in New York and across the country whether Washington state and some of the other locales that really endured the weight of the pandemic most significantly during the first wave. So at that time at the Trade Association we were very much aware that monitoring and deepening our knowledge of what was happening overseas was critical. This was not the first time that something with the risk of unfurling as a global pandemic could affect our community. Ebola was in the recent past and so these are the kinds of experiences that I personally was drawing upon during this time. It's important to note as context this was at the same time as the federal government was taking the lessons learned from Katrina that affected of course the Orleans and surrounding geographies so profoundly and it was moving at the federal level to bring through the centers for Medicare and Medicaid services regulatory requirements around emergency preparedness. So that was the context in which a lot of this experience that I had and the knowledge base that I brought was ready to be put to work. So what I did was I created in many respects from scratch a curriculum and a set of operational protocols for a large sloth of New York cities, long term care provider community and all of this proceeded the pandemic. This was involving the areas like coastal storm preparedness, actually cyber security as well which we can talk about as well because it's a place where as I turn my gaze to bond and its clients I really look forward to providing information and perspective from all that I have gleaned in that environment helping organizations really deepen their knowledge and preparedness. So I took that background into the pandemic and I recognized very quickly that there was much more we could be doing through a role that I held at the time I was a member of a New York citywide health care emergency preparedness steering committee I was working with leaders in the mayor's office in the New York City Department of Health and mental hygiene, fire department and many other city and community assets that convened to try to get ahead of the crisis as best possible. None of us could have foreseen the incredible devastation we all experienced and that led very quickly as we moved into March and so much happened so quickly a focus on finding creative ways for instance to secure PPE at a time when PPE was so hard to come by. I was able to through partnerships I cultivated bring more than a million units of PPE into the downstate region.
involving overseas relationships, whether it's South Korean entities, those in Singapore, and Turkey, we all needed to be very creative at that time. I saw so much was uncharted. I also was very closely involved in the interrelationship between our members and the regulators at the Department of Health and within the governor's office, both working to absorb and clarify what were really scores of regulations of the public health emergency that reflected the constantly changing and really crisis level moment that we all were enduring. And in that environment, also thinking about creative solutions. So it was a really non-stop moment and of course we all lost so much. And as a New Yorker through and through knowing just how much our community experienced in terms of this tragedy is still really unfathomable. But I'm glad that I could contribute in some way to helping us forge the path forward that again, I'm really heartened to see us progressing on. Yes, there's certainly, I think it's going to take us all a long time and I'm not sure we'll ever fully be able to wrap our minds around exactly what happened. But the work you were doing, I think you mentioned a couple of things that I think are important that people did always think we can do in advance. And that's for businesses, build resiliency and of course operational protocols. If you build some infrastructure in, in advance of any emergency situation or crisis management situation, you really can weather those things a little bit better. It can't. The level of preparation that we all now see so plainly, we should really build in the upstream efforts to avoid the kinds of consequences that can be mitigated through thoughtful investment upstream really makes a difference. And you know, I connect that in many respects to my work at the Innocence Project on looking at those reforms that if properly implemented could affect the downstream. And in that instance, of course, it was wrongful convictions when it comes to cybersecurity and other forms of preparation. The kind of investment of time and energy is really comparable in terms of the value it may generate. And so I should also know that I'm a co-chair of a gubernatorially pointed body that focuses on cybersecurity and the ways in which smaller and mid-size healthcare institutions across New York state can build their resilience. And it happens to have its next quarterly meeting shortly. And I see that as very much a connection to the kind of work that you're describing. Absolutely. And I think that many mid or smaller-size businesses, whether they're healthcare or not, think I have to focus on just running today. Because as you mentioned, lean resources often. So that that's where having counsel who can help you plan ahead and think about the data privacy issues because data privacy and cybersecurity, what's good today might not be good tomorrow, right? What I am really excited about and the way bond approaches problems is that full service and really multidisciplinary approach that it affords its clients. These are the kinds of ties, these kinds of connections that bond is so skillful at delivering and where that kind of, to your point, can upstream investment in trying to peer ahead and to really know what's as best we can coming and to be thoughtful in the way we shift in position. It's something that I made core to the way in which I approach my work. And it's absolutely key component of the bond culture. Yeah, I mean, as you're pointed out, there's this interdisciplinary approach quite often at bond because there are a variety of different departments and healthcare providers, not for profit or otherwise are businesses with the typical business problems. And you mentioned labor to everything else but that are layered with regulatory oversight and public scrutiny. So they have some different issues that make having an ability to focus on healthcare important and then having these other departments to sort of support important as well. Do you think that's a fair assessment? I do see the kinds of connections, Kim, that you're describing and they're just so critical for bonds clients. So once I have noticed from our conversations, it seems like you're really working to bring your approach of creativity and problem solving from your past experience to bonds clients. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Absolutely. So one way in which I've been excited to roll up my sleeves is in healthcare delivery context where there are opportunities for transformation. Much like we were talking about in connection with those projects at the Greater New York Hospital Association family that I led, here at Bond, we're working with clients and look forward to helping others in the same way, to look at ways in which they can bring forward creative business ideas and opportunities that tie into the healthcare reinvention that we're seeing all across our country that the pandemic has only made deeply more important. And so that includes bringing in new service lines, it includes new partnerships and at Bond, we are helping clients navigate both the processes of framing what it is to undertake that kind of transformation work and also connecting them to resources so that they can do so with full sophistication and funding possible. That's right because a good advocate not only answers the clients' questions, but helps the client find the resources they need to continue to succeed. That's fantastic, and we're excited to have you here and of course to have you back on the podcast to talk about this notorially appointed effort and cybersecurity and data privacy in the healthcare industry because HIPAA is a buzz word now that gets misused, I thought used often, but those issues, I mean there's just so much more we can talk about. So I really appreciate you being here today, but I hope you'll come back to talk more on topics such as that as things develop. That would be my pleasure, Kim, and thank you for having me. Yeah, it's been great to talk to you today. Thank you so much. I'm glad we have the opportunity to highlight your career and to talk about healthcare practice and counseling clients, and I really am looking forward to having you back so thanks, Gabe. Thank you. Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond. If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at
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