An Exclusive Interview With Ukraine’s President Zelensky

As Russia's war on Ukraine has dragged on, Ukraine has gone on the offensive. Its advanced drones have been hitting deep inside Russia, and its inflicted major damage to Russia's oil refineries. Ukraine hitting Russia with a massive drone attack over the weekend. It came on the final day of Russian elections. This week, Ukrainian President Volodomir Zelensky is in New York for the United Nations General Assembly. He spoke before other world leaders earlier today. Sometimes it may seem that Ukraine is focused only on war because we speak about weapons. We speak about defense and sanctions against the aggressor, but Ukrainians did not choose this war. We choose not to die, not to lose our country, our families, not to lose our independence, our freedom. The day before his UN speech, Zelensky sat down with the Wall Street Journal's editor-in-chief Emma Tucker. Well, now I feel very much put upon that I'm going to have to try and say, "Look, how do I say it?" Thank you very much for being here. During their conversation, Tucker asked Zelensky about the possibility of a cease-fire on striking energy infrastructure, where Ukraine needs to get through the winter and how the nation is handling the stress after nearly five years of war. Welcome to the journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knutson. It's Wednesday, September 23rd. Coming up on the show, an exclusive interview with Ukrainian President Volodomir Zelensky. Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day-gum v-grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. I knew groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. After attending the United Nations General Assembly on Tuesday, President Zelensky met with President Donald Trump. During the meeting, Zelensky asked Trump for an aid package of military equipment to help Ukraine survive the winter. A few hours after that meeting, Zelensky spoke with Emma Tucker at a Wall Street Journal event. Here's an edited version of their conversation. Like I said, delighted to have you here. It's a great honor. Thank you for joining us. I know you had a very busy day, including a meeting with President Trump. What can you tell us about that meeting? So, I'm very thankful that we had a opportunity to speak about almost everything, not everything, the main things, what we really need, on what we can count, how to bring this closer, about winter, winter packages, how to defend our people. And it's also very difficult to speak when you know that at this moment there is a attack on your native country, people, and that's why it's, I mean, this balance. To hold this balance is not simple. We spoke about energy, ceasefire, and food security. One thing I wanted to ask you was, did he ask you again to stop bombing Russian refineries? Not today, yes. So, no, really, I mean, so it's not a secret that American partners raised this topic and between us before President Trump, be honest, it's time to time, it's raising, and the topic is increasing when there is some deficit and etc. But our, you know, it's, we respond. We have to be strong and we have to show putting that he's not alone on this planet, even if it's his dream, and that's why he has to respect people. How Russians can respect people? Only when you show that you are strong, they don't respect weakness, even sometimes when people want to be weak. It's normal for people to be weak, to live, to spend time, to love children, yes. But now you have to demonstrate with Russians, you have to demonstrate, that's why you have to respond. Like our electricity we have to respond on their painful moments, I mean, some sensitive moments like energy, that's why our signal is next, that ceasefire on energy, it doesn't matter what energy you use or your people use. So ceasefire on energy is time to end the war, yes, to show something, something discalating. So I want to talk about the prospects for an energy ceasefire in a minute. But just to go back to the Ukrainian attacks on the Russian refineries, did the president bring up the specific issue of diesel prices? Because we know that this is something that's very much top of his mind at the moment. Yeah, today we didn't talk about it, but by phone, yes, really we read this topic about the diesel, especially about diesel. I said, look, maybe for somebody it's important for our lives are more important than the price of an energy and between us, I mean, this doesn't depend on us. I would be honest, everybody and send the volume of our moves has influence, it's not that volume from Russia, but in any way, even if these has influence, if everybody wants to help just people with the diesel or with prices on diesel, okay, help us to stop putting with blackouts on territory of Ukraine to attack our civil infrastructure. What does it apply? What is not an enemy for Putin, I mean, just what are for people? So if he attacks, he has to understand that the respond will come from Ukraine, and we will do it, of course, definitely, till the end will, till the war will end. So clearly, you're not backing down. What would Russia have to do for Ukraine to stop bombing the refineries now or to sort of dial it down? What does Russia have to do? Energy is fire. And energy is fire. Yes, and energy is fire. I mean, it doesn't matter what kind of energy I think so. And people want to say, look, stop here, we will stop here, then you have to stop here and you will stop there is difficult. It's too much, I think. If you don't want to attack energy, anything, energy supplies, petrol, diesel, refineries, gas, water supplies, because it depends on electricity, on deficit, and et cetera, electricity. If you decided not to attack critical infrastructure, it's mean critical infrastructure. It's the list of critical infrastructure. And I think all the respect leaders of nation have to know what doesn't mean. Not to attack energy, it's very clear what doesn't mean. Putin talks a lot about the successes of Russia on the battlefield, but we also hear that his generals aren't telling him the truth. Do you have any insight as to whether or not Putin genuinely doesn't know the truth about the state of play, or does he know and talks about the winds in order to convince the West and his own people that Russia is winning? So, first of all, the situation on the battlefield is not successful for Putin, so he is not winning, it's true. And he is not losing, it's also true, because for him, human losses, it's not to lose. For Ukraine, it's to lose, because you lose people. It means that you lose in the war, because all this is about humanity at the end. So that's why he's not winning, because on the battlefield, almost everything gets freezing, I mean, moving a little bit. The problem is that his generals, as you said, he shared with him information, and I don't know, he doesn't want to know the details, or he knows the details, and I don't know what is the difference, but it doesn't matter. So for today, he doesn't feel that he has to stop. This is the problem. How are you preparing? Clearly, then, you're in for a long winter, and how are you, I mean, is Ukraine ready for what comes next over this winter, which is likely to be, you know, a difficult and challenging one for you to get through? So, all this period of the war is a period of surviving of our nation. In any way, it's not normal life, and just to close the eyes and say, that's its normality, the new normality, and it says, no, no, it's not normal life. And that's why you, of course, you have to prepare, I hope, and we have a chance to stop and end this war before the winter, if there are several, if now we have. Of course, the first "if" is always. is the will. The will of the United States, special of the President, political will to end the – I mean, he has a political will to end. But this Putin is not enough to will. I mean, this is for Putin, you need to pressure. The second technologist, we need some technologists from the United States. We have our experience. We're always ready to change, but we need something from the United States. We need winter package, missiles for patriots, systems. I mean, this is important. Very important to have everything. Now, if you want to hand the war, now, you need to react now. So, did you get a sense from the conversation you had with President Trump earlier as to what the American plan now is to end the war in Ukraine? The anchorage proposal was, you know, it hasn't gone anywhere. Do you know now where President Trump's head is on this? No, President Trump's idea is to mediate and put at the table of negotiations Putin and me. And it's not simple. I asked, it's not simple because one of us is not ready. Yeah. So, this is the first. The second is to find some solution. And when in one solution, you want to find some compromises. It's again not simple, because one of us is not ready for compromises. The problem for us is to wait and to go like we began to speak about it about winter and to go through winter and to survive and to lose so many people. This time costs, I mean, the price is very high. We can stop this war. I think that Putin said to President Trump, I think that he needs our territory and he wants us to live our territory. And this is the problem for us because how you can, I mean, this, I mean, we didn't do it at the very first day of the war. We've been strong in our people and our children. And they still, I think, as tired, very tired, it's through long war, but they are strong. But we didn't do it the first day of the war. So after all these days of surviving and just to sell our independence and sell our freedom, I think it's not about us. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Jeldermist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. Try new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. I want to ask you about another meeting you had recently and that was with John Ratcliffe, the CIA director, who you saw when you were in Ireland, I believe. It's a secret. It's a secret. Damn, you can't tell me. It's a secret. He didn't tell me. Has he got a role now in ongoing negotiations? No, we decided that we will not share that we had a meeting. But we decided. That's a very good answer. Sorry. I'm so sorry. But he's looking good. He's looking good, right? Sorry. Are you going to see him again while you're here? No, I'm sorry. I can't. Who asked would you like to see while you were here? We were chatting earlier and you mentioned that you would like to have a meeting with Elon Musk. Can you tell us what you would be sitting down to discuss with him? First of all, we were thankful to his company, to SpaceX and to Elon. We really had good connection for our people during these challenges during the war with Starlings. It's important. Yes, very important. The problem is that China is very close to such technologies and they will share it with Russia. And it's true. They began to do it and to be worried how to say it precisely. Yes, to be very precisely on the territory of Ukraine. It was several times already when they tried to use this new technology, not massively, but they are on the way. They are training practical time. So they use it just, I mean, this year the window of just the house, the drone came just through the window and hold and wait for the people. And then attack when the people came and attacked. So it's new things between us, what really the United States or America has. I mean, you have such technologies. Yeah. Yeah. And the China will share it with Russia. Well, we already shared. We think that at the end of December, January, that they will share distribution. This is the fact that that's why I just wanted to speak with, I mean, this, we, you know, not, I wanted, I, I, we spoke with, with Elon. I mean, this, our teams have to speak about it. I think it's important. It's important because all the technologies we are today are using, you know, on the territory of Ukraine, its, the answer is we're, we're installed for what? Why North Koreans are using technologies and learning in Ukraine, North Koreans, soldiers will come to this war for what? To help Russians. No, I'm not sure. To, first of all, to get experience, to prepare the operators of drones, to prepare and to learn new technologies, new way of this war, absolutely new. Yes. And then they will, what they will do, where they will use it. Yeah, they will use it on the territory where there are their interests. And that's why I think that the China is using their technologies with Russia, not because there were great friends, brothers, and sisters, not, of course. Yes, everything is very pragmatic because they will need this experience somewhere. And that's why I always say that is during this war, this experience, this too long war with all these military technologies, we have to understand that the distance between, I mean, there's no distance in this war at all, at all. That's why we need to share technologies. We need to share health. We need to share support. We have to stop any kind of terrorism, any kind of aggressor. We have to stop them. Tell me a bit about your own ballistic and anti-ballistic programs that you're developing your own. How, you know, what's the state of play with these programs? So for today in the world we know that one of the best spatular system, what the United States has not only United States, some Asia partners. And as I said, some licenses in Europe. So on this track, we want to have licenses for the future. Yes, but in parallel way, this one is great, but it's very expensive and not enough. Yes, not enough for the Europe and for the world, between us, because production is so small, even with the increasing steps, which I know American government provided, and it will, it will increase, but not enough. Yes, and we'll never enough. So we wanted to create the anti-ballistic system with cheap missiles with our experience and to give it, to give the licenses to other countries, them, to give them possibility to save themselves, to give them not even for the war, for peace time that their societies will, I mean, this will be sure, tomorrow and they will come down and know that they are shielded, is closed. That's what I wanted to create and to share it, because it's so difficult to get one missile. That's why I wanted us to create thousands and millions of these missiles and just to give people, because they need it, I'm sure, just to have it. And that's why we began to work on it, and we think that in winter, kind of this year, beginning next year, we will have, we hope, so we have the first system just to try and how it will work. This is the system, the name is Freya, and God bless, it will work. No, God bless, it will not work because we will have peace. Yes, because it will work here, right. - I just went to. (audience applauding) We haven't gone much time left. So I've got a couple more questions. One of them is very specific. I want to go back to the meeting you have with President Trump today. Did he ask you to withdraw your support for the International Criminal Court? - No. - Has he asked you to? - Never. - Have I had a criminal court? - Yeah, the International Criminal Court in the. - No, we never spoke about it. - Okay. - Really? - Good. - Maybe I was sleeping at this period of time. - That would be understandable. - Or maybe this part we talked in Ireland. - Maybe, ah. - You did it, you did it, you did it. - It was a joke. - Well, just. - You should be careful. There are a lot of journalists in this room. So I have my last question for you is about you. So we're very soon, this war is going to have been going on for five years. And I interviewed you, I think it was three or four years ago. Even then, you know, you'd been at it for two years. And I asked you, how do you deal with the stress? And you talked to me about helping your son with his homework. We're now facing. - I still have small sons. - Do you still help him with his homework? - No, no, he's not so small. - All right. How do you deal with the stress yourself now? - I don't know. I'm not sure that's a really deal. But no, I mean, what do we do? We try, you know, we try to do our job in the way when even it's not that people will respect you. It's about in the way that you can continue after the war and after this presidential job, you will continue living your country, go through the streets and nobody will want to kill you and hate you. I'm just because you've been like a piece of shit, not a leader and not a man. Not a, I mean, this is just, I mean, this is what you do. How would the way how you live and the way how you try to live? Sometimes with all my mistakes and et cetera, during the war, you have so many mistakes. Why? Because you have to, how present Trump say, make a deal. So you have to make hundreds of deals per day. Not comfortable. Where is sensitive? Sometimes, I know, when you don't even want to do this, but you have to. Yeah, so a lot of things. And that's why it's all about that you think that it's your attitude to your job, your country and your people. At the end of the day, everything is around the people. So people give you energy to live and also there are people whom you hate and they took all your energy. And yes, and that's why it's all about it. So I try to live for good people. I hope that there are around us a lot of good people. Hope so. President Zelensky, I'm sure the good people in this room are not bad. Are hoping for a deal and that you finally get some rest. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Go. Okay. Bye bye. That's all for today. Wednesday, September 23rd. The journal is a co-production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts throughout every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.