An Epic Spurs-Thunder Series, Cleveland Survives, and the Knicks' Moment Is HERE With Zach Lowe

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Now you have to look at it as you paid full freight, but here you are in the conference finals with a Knicks team that I think is going to be the favorite. I will pick them to win the series, but they're not unbeatable. Cleveland has a chance in this series to get to the finals. Yeah, I had Mitchell as the top story too. Nine years, 77th playoff game tonight. Never made conference finals, which becomes a weird list when you've had a really good career and you've made some all-NBAs, but you've never made it past round two. I don't know who the most famous player on that list is, but I always think of Dominic Wilkins when I think of lists like that and all the what-ifs with his career and how if the Lakers had just taken him over James Worthy and if he'd been able to get by the Celtics once or the Pistons, anybody, and had this awesome career but never even got to be in the final four. Felt like we were heading that way with Mitchell. Friday night, I just was stupefied by Friday night. I thought for sure the Cavs were going to win. I don't know what happened to them. They looked lethargic. The Pistons, they had so many turnovers. in the Friday night game. And then today, we were texting near the end of the first half that Cavs had two turnovers with like four minutes left in the second quarter. Honestly, that felt like part of the difference because Detroit's offense was so iffy. They really needed that energy stuff and they needed the two-on-ones and the blocks and going the other way. And they just didn't get any of those today. And it's just a lethargic game all the way around. Cade wasn't good. Mitchell was the best guy on the floor. The point you made about the getting the big guys above. I almost wonder, did they look at the tapes of the first six games and notice that every time they drove to the basket, the Pistons, Biggs, and Thompson were just flying at those guys trying to block the shots. And like they told Mitchell, when you go to the basket, look for Al and look for Mobley because those guys over and over again were rolling and it seemed like they were unimpeded. So it almost felt like a football strategy flip of like they keep doing this, zag this way, and Mitchell bought in. Because the thing with Mitchell, it was a storyline that he was averaging, what, 2.9 assists in the playoffs? That's terrible. He's supposed to be the guy who makes everybody else better and he wasn't, but he did tonight. I think if they lost this game and he had another game like that, the number one takeaway, I mean, all the big takeaways would have been the big picture Cavs stuff that we don't have to discuss now. Like, what are they going to do? Is this the team of the future? Who do they trade? All that stuff is stable. But the biggest basketball takeaway would have been, what happened to Donovan? Donovan Mitchell's playmaking. Like, I thought this was going to develop into a real strength of his game and it kind of had just disappeared in the playoffs. He was not making passes that were there to be made. He was not looking for them. He was just playing. I keep using the word frazzled. He looked a little sped up and just not in his normal state of mind. And tonight he was really, really under control and really good. A little black hole-ish before tonight, I felt like. Like, not that fun to play with would have been my take. Out of sync sometimes with Harden. I mean, gradually, starting in Game 3 and excluding the just inexplicable egg they laid in Game 6, 3-4-5-7, you started to see the Cavs figure out some ways. It wasn't pretty. It's not always artful. But to loosen up their half-court offense a little bit, it was sometimes hunting mismatches for Donovan Mitchell. It was using Mobley more in the pick-and-roll and they started to get, like, the Mobley-to-Allen big-to-big passing going on. It was finally, I thought, probably a little over, starting Strews tonight and playing Merrill more and just having more shooting on the floor. And Merrill, like, probably should have left the thing with Sam Merrill, who came in and completely changed the game. I've been calling for it all series. I don't know why they weren't playing him more. Do you think he was, was he hurt? Well, he did miss the game. He seemed like such an obvious person to play more. He did miss the game. I thought the Strews adjustment was going to come sooner. And in Kenny's defense, the initial starting lineup with Wade had, like, a better plus-minus than I had thought of in the playoffs. But it's just, the offense was so clunky. I didn't like it. Wade was not bringing enough defensively to really justify it. I thought they could have reorganized their rotation a bit. But this is what happens in the playoffs, man. You shrink your rotation. You got to stretch for answers. This is, you know, the Cavs, for as ugly as it's looked at times, seven games and seven games, and they're here. And they had to negotiate two of the five best defenses in the NBA this year. It's, like, not always going to look pretty, but they found just enough to squeak those series out. Yeah, so the big adjustment was starting macho man Maxi Strews. I saw you. I saw that come. That was fun. Starting macho. Yeah. Hopefully that'll keep going in the next series. Sorry, I dropped my notes. Other than that, it just looked like they took care of the ball and Mitchell played better. Those were really, that was really, because Friday night was, I was really surprised and stunned, but Detroit did seem like they got the Reed-Durham combo going. And then today it was gone again. And we'll talk about Detroit later and what Durham's worth and all that stuff. But for ugly loss for Detroit. What a wild loss. Like, just a reminder that it's a little, as predictable as the NBA is compared to other sports leagues in terms of who generally wins and advances game to game. It's like, wait, Cleveland won three games in a row and just got obliterated in game six in the most dispiriting way possible at home. Detroit's riding high. They're going back home. You know, they're like game seven and they get obliterated at home. It's like it can swing in wild ways, even if it doesn't seem that way sometimes. Yeah, it's turnovers and threes basically seem to be when you have two teams, that I think a notch below the highest level that we have going in the league right now. Who the hell knows? For Detroit, how bad was that loss for you? If I gave you a scale of one to the 2022 Mavs-Suns game, how bad? That's a 10. That's 10? That's 10. I'll go six and a half. I mean, I think we saw in the first round that this team was, it's regular season win total probably inflated. a little bit how good they really were in all the sort of sort of concerns we had about their viability as like a real finals championship team came to bear in the series against Orlando which by the way I think Orlando probably wins if Franz Wagner doesn't get hurt and also they blew a horrendous game six of their own at home so I think we win because we did that podcast with the the scariest ceiling playoff teams when we had Detroit 11th and their fans and media got mad at us well I mean and just I'm going six and a half maybe seven because it's a young team it's a rising team in a lot of ways like again this is a team that had it over under I think in the high 40s before the season started and here they are going toe-to-toe with Donovan Mitchell and James Harden and Evan Mobley and Jared Allen in the second round it's great season but Jalen Dern another invisible game uh Tobias Harris over from the field he's a free agent you've really got it you've really got a tough question uh tough tough discussion to have with him and just the center rotation completely fell apart again at the word after Jalen Dern looked reinvigorated we were texting over the weekend like the biggest the the biggest possible positive sign for Detroit going into game seven is maybe Jalen Dern got over whatever mental hurdle or whatever was happening to him he had a pretty good he did not and he's missing layups and everything around the basket and then Isaiah Stewart for what felt like the fourth time in the series is just throwing guys like judo throwing guys at the foul line and picking up these crazy fouls and J.B. Bickerstaff's like dude cool you're the tough guy in the team can you play basketball because if you if you're not going to play basketball we're bringing in Paul Reed six minutes for Isaiah Stewart tonight so I would go higher than six and a half for the Pistons for three reasons one you have this impossible to figure out during contract thing though I mean I don't know he just got outplayed by Jared Allen who plays who makes you know 28 29 million a year right so you can't pay during more than that even though I voted for him for an omba team I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know you we've seen this in in in football and we've seen it in basketball where if you overpay somebody who's not a dominant guy that's the quickest way to screw your team up for three four years it's aka the Bradley the Bradley Beal Paradox Paradox Paradox Pibb Dilemma Bradley Beal Paradox um I just couldn't in good conscience pay that guy more than 33 to 34 a year oh I think if you're I think after this series if if you're Jalen Duren's agent you you might pretend to protest what you just said like oh that might might place a phone call to Bill Simmons being like oh I gotta do the the thing where I protest but secretly you're like I would take that like that's like we I was so Dyson Daniels 25 a year Jalen Johnson signed for I thought I think we all felt like it was a little low right I think five for five for 150 so he's somewhere in there but I wouldn't feel good about going over 30 for him after that series I don't feel good about paying that for centers in general because I think the perimeter guys are more important unless it's Jokic or Wemby I will say I thought his defense was pretty solid throughout the series offensively he was exposed is kind of not ready for the for the playoffs at the level that the Pistons need him to be ready which is a really high level second round against a really good team like you it's got it's high level stuff and you know the perimeters the perimeter game like every time he takes a mid-range jumper it's a win for the other team and I think he'll get better at that he's only 22 you can't repeat that enough but like I don't know what the market I mean the Bulls are the team with cap space that has the obvious hole at the position but I I just don't know that anyone is blowing Jalen Duren's Market away with any kind of offer sheet now agents as we saw with Miles Turner are super creative of like magicking up sign and trades and crazy deals but you know I it the center of course Lakersy Lakers ish I mean we'll see if they have any cap space they have this 50 million dollar possible cap space and it depends on a lot of different things LeBron Rui hachimura how quickly they saw Reeves and all that but he would be I mean at the very very high end of what the Lakers could could go after sure you know so that was my first time two more things for being bummed out of on the Pistons the second is what happened to Isaiah Stewart where I I think he became a liability he was one of my favorite bench guys in the league this season and I don't know if since the fight it never felt like he got his impact back the way it was before the fight where it felt like he was coming in and just swinging in games and adding on to Dern and I just thought he got worse than the playoffs to the point it seemed like he came at it seemed like he was yelling at a couple coaches and they cut away from it but I think he's an obvious trade piece for them making 15 million a year there's great rim protection things for him maybe he needs to play more but just in general I thought that was a guy that seemed like he was one of the better contracts in the league and just was MIA so that's two and then the third one is just that they punted on the trade deadline which we talked about at the time their big move is Kevin Herter who didn't play tonight who didn't really play all series and I don't add an injury in fairness but yeah there was no universe in which Kevin Herter was going to suddenly be playing 22 minutes a game off the bench in this series did he even he wasn't he didn't play one minute this series did he he got in at some point um yeah yeah well whatever so they kind of punted on that and we talked about it and we said hey they you know it's a marathon not a sprint they're using the same Presti logic of let's try to build and we'll pounce when we pounce I don't know if you have a chance to get into the final four that means you're four wins away from the finals I certainly think they they've had a lot of success against the Knicks and they really needed that second score which is what we said in February you're putting all your bricks and the you print all your eggs in the uh Tobias Harris basket and he was 0 for 6 today and they did not have that other score they could trust Levert had the one hot game in the series you know they'd have Jenkins would hit a three every once in a while Robinson who did not seem healthy to me I know he made a couple threes but I felt like he had some back thing I was watching how he's walking he looked 100 to me but they were just missing that second whoever it was and I don't know if I was a Pistons fan I'd be mad about that yeah I mean you know I was talking about this with some people at the combine and and you hear this like well I mean ironically they got they get to swap picks with the Timberwolves in the first round of this draft because they took on Mike Conley and the initial salary dump or so they were involved in that um and it ironic I say because you hear a lot of people say well I mean like they could have gotten in for Kobe White or I would soon do or a guy like that I mean they could have is that getting them over the hump is it worth it step definitely would have given them a better shot in this series because we like we all knew they were light on secondary creators and I think honestly like I think it Cade had to have been exhausted by the end of this series because he just has to do everything and the Cavs I think probably uh switched too easily against Cade like they gave him Harden they gave him Donovan Mitchell they gave him Merrill they gave him whatever matchup he wanted they'd never really trapped him when he got those matchups and a lot of where people were calling for that and I understand that and I think they could have done a little bit I bet what they were thinking was look we're just gonna make him dribble eight times and take a 14-footer and yeah it's going to be over Donovan Mitchell or Sam Merrill but we're not giving him the easy stuff and the easy passes we're just going to wear his ass out and like what he was doing what is he no one in the league is carrying a bigger load I don't think than Cade cutting him in the playoffs two MVP votes from people today for him first place first place MVP votes yeah so I have a lot of Knicks fans in my life I know you have even more and they've been asking me for two weeks who who do I want to play do you want to play the Cavs or the Pistons and my answer at least for the last week is you're going to beat either team it doesn't matter but I would rather play the Pistons because I the Cavs still have this ceiling thing that they the potential of what they are is still more dangerous than what the Pistons are to me which is a team that just has too much trouble scoring in the Thompson piece of it Thompson who you know steals and blocks some offensive rebounds um three incredible defensive plays a game like clearly somebody who can be one of your best five guys on the floor and be really impactful but if you don't have enough scoring and especially this is a Pistons team if they fell behind 15 it felt like 50. you know and I I just feel like if I'm the Knicks I would have much rather played that team because I'm better than them anyway I could just outscore them Cleveland who knows with the two bigs you mentioned Mobley earlier I the last the three of the last four games I thought he was really really really good um like as as much as I've enjoyed watching him play just total package like defending the rim some good passing was aggressive wasn't afraid to shoot his three did you feel like he went up a tiny notch or am I crazy no I mean look the scoring numbers are I don't think he cracked 20 unless he did tonight I haven't checked the final box score in any of those games I just thought he played really solid all-around basketball and I think the series started to turn when the Cavs had him more involved in the pick and roll and like used him as a passer more and used him as a hub more and I think like that's not going to be sexy statistically but I thought he made all the right plays and it got him just it got the ball moving a little bit and for a team that was like like the 29 assists tonight they've been dead last and assist rate in the playoffs for most of the playoffs it just got the ball moving a little bit more and it invigorated him like there was a moment I think it was in game four where he dunked on Isaiah Stewart like dunked on him hard and I'm like Where is this every other game? Like, why is this a rare thing? Like this level of nastiness and aggression. And he played that way the rest of the series. I kind of agree with you. The Pistons swept the Knicks in the regular season. They blew them out, if not all three times, and at least two out of the three. There are guys missing on both sides in most of the games, but their physicality bothered the Knicks. They just beat the crap out of the Knicks. The Knicks were not ready for how physical Detroit played. Obviously, in the playoffs, your state of readiness and your willingness to engage in that kind of stuff is going to be way higher. The Cavs, like you love the trick-or-treat analogy for players, the Cavs have a little bit of that in them where they, for a quarter, will find this groove where the Harden-Mitchell thing is more complimentary than it is, like they amplify each other a little bit more than they do usually. The bigs are rolling, Strews or Merrill are making shots. You're like, oh my God, this team is awesome. They're defending the rim. Yeah, and then the next two quarters, it'll just be a little bit like sluggish. And so they do have that kind of like, oh, if that team pops a little bit more, they're going to be like, oh, we're going to win. They're going to be like, oh, we're going to win. And then off, they're not, then yeah, they have a chance. They've also really, I think Merrill, Sam Merrill has really emerged as a possible, like MSG playoff villain. I can see him going in and being unafraid and hitting shots. Schroeder, who was plus 12 today, was at least two turnovers. Schroeder was a turnover machine the last couple of games. Last couple of games, it was rough. To the point that he almost seemed like unplayable in game six. Like I was surprised. I was surprised they kept him out there. But, you know, with Macho Man, Maxi Strews, Harden, Mobley, Allen, Mitchell, and Merrill, I at least know I have six guys. And then Wade's like a six and a half. At least he has some size. It's, they'll be able to land some punches on the Knicks. But if I'm the Knicks, this is, I mean, this is easily, easily their best chance to make the finals since 1994, I think. - It's not close. - They're way better than, they were way better than either of his teams. What do you think the line is for the series? I'm going to FanDuel right now. Before I look, I'm going to say Knicks minus 300. - I was going to say 250 or 230 or something like that. So. - Okay. The answer is, minus 240. - Okay. I win. - Plus 190 for the Cavs. You win that one. - I win. - That's why you're Mr. Gambling. - And I win, me and House had nine different bets going on this game tonight. That's what I, that's what I do. And I won by Price is Right rules, which I respect in my house. - Yeah, you did. - Like, but my wife does not respect Price is Right rules. She says that's stupid. It should just be who's ever closest. I respect the institution that is the Price is Right. - I like Price is Right's rules as well. Brunson minus 170 for final, for conference MVP. Mitchell's three to one. Towns plus 950. Harden 20 to one. OG's 22 to one. And then Evan Mobley sitting there at 33 to one. - All right. - Not against it. I'm trying to get, get my app, get my app up. - Not against, not against that one. 'Cause I, in my opinion, Mobley will be the, that's the Cavs guy to watch in a series like this. - Yeah. - If he's awesome, that's a, that's a differentiator for them. - I'm gonna dig in a little bit tomorrow. Obviously it's a quick turnaround. Game one is Tuesday in New York. I will hopefully be there. And, but I, I'll dig in on the matchups a little bit, but the Knicks, OGN and OB practice. OGN and OB practiced and said he's feeling much better. And this is not like the hamstring injury from two years ago. That's a huge thing. I just think they're better. I think they're a better team. They, they, they, I think we're two and one or three and one against the Cavs this year. Now I will say the last time they played, I've said this over and over again. I think the Cavs figured out a little bit something on who should match up with who and how all that should work defensively and, and gave the Knicks a little bit of trouble. And I think they, they discovered a little bit of, of that kind of stuff, but the Knicks are just better. And like to your point, I'm surrounded by Knicks fans. They are absolutely giddy. And I'm like, you should be giddy. This is by far the best chance. I like, I'm, I never thought I would ever have a hometown finals as long as I would be doing this. So finals where I didn't have to travel for half of it. I just never even deemed it possible. I just never, which of these teams is going to suddenly be competent enough to actually win three playoff rounds. This is by far the most likely it's ever been to the point that if the Knicks don't win this next series, I think it's going to be absolutely crushing for their fan base and their, their whole organization. - I don't know how crushing it will be because they had the will to live for the rest of their lives crushed out of them by the Halliburton shot and that Pacers come back. So they're, they're already dead inside. - I can't believe you, you have to mention that. Like they're- - They're dead inside. They have, they have no emotion left. - How about the Paul, how about the Paul Reed shot by the way, can we just, from a, from game six that hung on, - Oh my God. - That hung on there. It was like a golf shot that just hung on the lip for five seconds. - It was like a Tiger Woods where he's doing the fist pump after. We're going to take a break. A couple more storylines for that Cavs-Knicks series in one second, one second. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The conference finals finally is here. We are down to four teams. I think you know it'll go down. Take your shot with FanDuel. Get closer to the action. And as you know, I've been telling you for years, FanDuel, the best place to bet the team's players and plays NBA post-season, build the same game parlay for a shot at a better payout, or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off, or just follow me and my picks. Cause every once in a while, I'll put them on social. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app right now and play your game. 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat, Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. For small businesses, guess what? Every hire matters. Luckily, there's LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Great name. It's designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates. And guess what? Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting jobs to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered screening interviews. And its conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language. Hire right the first time. Why not just do it the first time? Get started by posting your first job for free at linkedin.com/simmons. That's me. That's linkedin.com/simmons. Terms and conditions apply. So one thing I was thinking about with the Knicks and the Cavs, and it's off of Minnesota falling short in their series about these little windows that teams have, that can't get over the hump teams. The teams that they win a few plays, a few playoff series, they might even make a conference finals. They have like a three or four year window and they just can't make the finals, right? And I think the most, my favorite example of this team ever was the Mark Price Cavaliers that, with Doherty and Nance and all those dudes, I thought those were really, really good teams. It's really unfair that they never made a finals. They had some bad injury luck. You know, they obviously crossed paths with Michael Jordan at the worst possible times and the Pistons and then Price got hurt. But I just thought that was a really good team. And you look back, you're like, oh, that was an error, but they never got over the hump. And I think the Knicks and the Cavs are like that right now, where the Cavs, they've had this Mitchell, little mini era here where they were able to get lucky with the Mobley being there and being able to draft him. And then the Jared Allen trade, you're basically getting him for nothing. And then, you know, Garland initially turned him in harder, but this is their window right now, I feel like. And then the Knicks, same thing, where they, you know, they went all in with the Bridges. They were able to dump Randall at the perfect time. We're going to talk about him later. They get Towns, that trade turned out really well. And this is the window right now for them. And this is why, when I think about this series, like for one of these teams, whoever loses this, I don't think it'll be a, well, we made the conference finals. I think this is like, this was our fucking chance to make the finals. So there's real stakes here that, not that there isn't always stakes for the conference finals, but I feel like this is like a four year road to this series. - Yeah, I mean, look, if you're right, and one of these teams comes out feeling disappointed to the point where they view change as necessary, like certainly the bucks are opening for just maximum disappointment around the top whatever teams in the league, including these two teams. And it is like, I talked about this last week, like imagine if Cleveland comes back and wins the series and they did, like, what does that mean for Harden's future with the team? It seems to solidify it, right? Does it solidify Mitchell's? But like, you're right, if they just get rolled, if one of these teams, it's different if you go to seven and it's just like both teams played really, really well. - It's a heroic, awesome series. - Like just, and they're like, it's a tip your cap kind of series, but if it's 4-1 and we get exposed on the glass, like Mitchell Robinson four years ago exposed us on the glass, or 4-1 and Cat has another existential crisis week, like the Cat thing goes back this way where he's fouling and like all of a sudden you just can't recapture whatever it is you had against Philadelphia. And at the end of the Atlanta series, like you're right. There could be, there could be certainly disappointment to the point of like, all right, we got to pivot. I mean, we'll see how it goes, I guess. - The problem with some of this stuff, I remember you talking about this when Dame was leaving Portland about like, they made the 2019 Western finals. That's a win. They were one of the four, you know, teams left, but the whole Dame era in Portland, I don't look at it as like, oh man, they were rolling. You know, we go back and we, we look at that Western finals. It's like, ah, it was a little fluky. The Houston and Golden State was really, the Western finals that year, but that was an error. And I was thinking about the get over the hump teams. The grit and grind Grizzlies is a great one. Made the finals. I mean, made the, uh, the conference conference finals, right? They put some series together. They had some upsets was the distinct error. They could never get over the hump lab city Clippers. Oh boy. Paul George Pacers, uh, your favorite, the coach, Bud Hawks, uh, blazers. The heart, the heart and rockets is probably the most successful example of just a ton of success, but never actually made the finals. The Celtics pre COVID Celtics, basically 16 to 20, where they made the Eastern finals, I think four to five times that whole year in the Eastern conference, it should just be, it was just Cleveland and a bunch of whatever. Yeah. So, and Nick's and calves now, and then, and then the wolves and we'll, we'll talk about the wolves later. Cause I want to do, what do you do? But. Sometimes like being one of the final four teams is okay. I think we just overreact to where it's like, we didn't win the title. What do we do? And it's like, I don't know, man, there's 30 teams in this league. There's a lot of good players. Like if I'm the calves, I'm like, all right, this was pretty good. We were down to, Oh, in the second round, we made it like maybe let's cool the jets on, on all the panic stuff. Now, if they had lost tonight, I would have had five trades for you. I, I, I totally agree. Making the conference finals. This is really hard. And there's only four teams left and you're one of them. And you've learned something about yourself. You're going to be better off for it the next year when you're in the playoffs. And, you know, you were doing the hump thing. Like I was like, where's the hump. Cause a lot of these teams you were mentioning made the conference finals, but not the finals. And I, I guess that is the finals. I mean, that's like, and again, like, what are you gonna tear down a conference finals team because now you have decisions to make and the salary cap forces you to make decisions and all that kind of stuff. But it's, it's hard to get that far in the playoffs and, you know, I mean, the, the West is just a completely different animal. Like Minnesota loses to San Antonio in the second round of the playoffs. I'm supposed to panic about now. There are things to panic about. Like Julius Randle disappearing is a thing to panic about. Rudy Gobert kind of sneakily disappeared in the last two or three games. Well, I mean, he's a catastrophe. Okay. I was trying to be nice for, for Rudy. He was cause everyone just, it's just, he's just the punching bag of the punching bag, but I'm trying to be nice. He's being bullied. He's been bullied too long. I'm trying to be nice to him. Putting that aside. If I'm Minnesota, I'm. Really scared that one of the people I have to go through in my conference, Victor Remba Yama, just completely annihilated my center. To the point, I don't know what to do with that. To the point. And Stan was making it on the broadcast that they were, they, and I had talked about it last week too, on my pod, they were rejiggering their rotations. The wolves were to have Rudy in the game only when Wemby was not in the game. Um, not good or, or a limit. Yeah. So look, but it's hard to make the conference finals. The calves are pretty young and, uh, yeah, I don't know. I don't know why there was something else I was gonna say, and I forgot, but it's, it's, it's hard to make the conference finals with the trait. So we talk about, they're obviously not panic. They're young during 22 Kate's in his mid twenties. There's a trade for a second score. Let's let's try to get Kate some help. Um, no question. Probably a, there's probably a Kawhi Leonard conversation. There's probably a, we don't have enough to get Jalen Brown conversation, but let's at least kick the tires. There's a, Hey, do we make our version of the Desmond Bain, um, McKell bridges trade for Trey Murphy and see if New Orleans is interested in that. But I think it's somebody like that. I think it's, I think they have to find a reliable second score. That is not Tobias Harris. I thought Tobias had a good season. Um, and I actually really liked the way he played the regular season, but the, the playoffs speak for itself. The question that you, you're gonna have to face is what's the salary that you're throwing in. I mean, you can throw in all. Your picks, I guess, and that's pretty valuable throwing all your picks, all your swaps. They got everything, but I gotta get up to a number, right? Like if I'm the names you're mentioning, I got, I gotta get up to even a big number. They have Robinson who's 60 in a year, the next two, but he's only 2 million guaranteed this year. So they can get out of that. Um, they can, I think they could trade Stewart pretty easily. And I think that's somebody that just, but just throw Jalen, you just threw Jalen Brown's name in there. The Boston Celtics are not trading finals MVP. Jalen Brown for Isaiah Stewart, Duncan Robinson, and a bunch of Detroit first round picks. Like that's, you're not getting a guy like that. They're not. And the problem is they're not getting Kawhi or Trey Murphy for what they have to trade anyway. I think unless I don't, I don't, unless Thompson is involved. Well, they're not, they're not doing sort of capacity. They're not doing that. And, but that's the other thing they have to figure out. Do they, do they extend Thompson? Do they give him, you know, do they jump the gun on the RFA season and, and take it out basically? I mean, look, we could get a lot. I mean, we had the four guys who just hung in restricted free agency forever last year because they're just, there was nothing out there for them. We've seen the Rockets already play pretty tough with some of their internal free agents and just say, we're not giving you the max. How about this? And if you don't take it, we'll just be happily negotiate against you in restricted free agency. Yeah. And I think more teams should do that. I mean, I hate restricted free agency. It sucks for the players, but it's a rule. And I don't think teams have adequately taken advantage of it. And I think it's really like, if you're a team that's really, you know, you're a team you can chip eight to 10 million a year off some of these contracts. Again, it sucks for the players, but it's, it's a weapon that you're, you have collectively bargained to have. And I like a star. It also really hurts the flexibility of being able to fix your roster. Once you do that extension, you're, you're poison pill. Look, we're just, these are just the rules. I have to live in the, I can think about other rules, but these are the rules that it's just now. And under those rules, like I'm not extending a star Thompson now, unless he's willing to take a pretty big discount. And because if I'm, and if I'm a star Thompson's agent, I'd say like, Oh no, I want the max. It's 25%. And like, then we're not negotiating. Then we'll go to, we'll, we'll take it to restrict every agency. If, if a star Thompson's agent asked that or said that I would cut a 45 minute video of him missing eight footers and be like, we're not giving you the max. And here's our 45 minute answer on that. Well, I think that would be make an eight footer. I think I don't know if that would go over. Well, I think that would be perceived as rude. Like what were the backyard basketball one-on-one games between the Thompson twins? Like ferocious. I wouldn't want to be a part of those games. Just incredible. Is that why they both can't shoot? Because the other one was so great defensively. They never figured out how to make an open shot. Just four hour games. And people are like, we got to eat dinner. I know it's two, two to 11, but we, dinner is ready. It's getting cold. Can we just call it at three? It's like two, two cheetahs just fighting, unable to gain upper ground on each other. I'm going to. I'm going to just quickly give you my, I had some Cleveland content in case they lost about what would happen. I was really excited about some of this. I wrote down in all caps. LeBron is looming. I think we can close the door now for the LeBron comes back to Cleveland. Hey guys, I'm a former champ. I'm here to help. What if they lose? What if they get swept? I mean, I don't think they would. What if it's four one and it's just, it ends like with a whimper. Really? Just close it. You're just closing it. What's the golf like in Cleveland? Because I think that's going to be the number one determiner for him. Probably not great for a large percentage of the year. I think he has to stay in California. Yeah. I had some Mitchell trades though. Okay. Well, let's say, how about this? If Mitchell gets swept, if they, if the Cavs get swept, but I'm just trying to figure out what his value is. Fourth pick Chicago is Chicago's not doing that. Right. I would, I would think not new GM, new, new, new lease on life. Let's get it. Let's get a cornerstone. New guys, young guy, but Brooklyn six pick, which I think is going to be a big one. I think is for sale. They were the, they were the first team that came to my mind when you just started. Six pick Traore and a future first call it in Sacramento. Seventh pick with Levine. And I get another Sacramento pick. And then, and then Atlanta eighth pick with Dyson Daniels, something there. He'd be very good on Atlanta. I mean, he'd be very good anywhere, but there would have been a really interesting discussion to be had of Donovan Mitchell. Almost 30. Eligible to sign just a D one of these extensions. That's just going to be a just gigantic amount of money. If it's a max extension going into his mid thirties with a playoff record that I think, by the way, has been a little bit underrated as he's come under some scrutiny in this series. I think he's been pretty goddamn good in the playoffs. And there's been a couple of series the last two years for the Cavs where he felt like the only one he was like the bus driver and just, just, just the only one that was really up for a fight. And, and, but there still would have been interesting discussion, like, you know, small guard 30 plus 30 into 33, 34, 35 on Pam, 70 million. And he's never made the conference finals in that discussion is at least forestalled for now. The bigger issue for me with that kind of money is do you make anyone better, which he was not doing during the playoffs, but he did tonight. I did get, uh, got an email earlier today from Alex Taylor. This was before we knew the result. Who said being a Cavs fan is a lot like having a Cavs fan. Having an elderly relative you're taking care of. I always have to watch and I'm rooting for them, but I kind of can't wait for this shit to be over with. That's a dark email. That is, um, yeah, I think that's where the Cavs, that's where the Cavs fans are mentally. I guess I needed a trigger warning for that. That was awful. Alex Taylor. Jeez, Alex Taylor. Um, and then this one I got before game seven from Brit Pierce about, um, watching James Harden push off on every drive and flop all over the floor. The best playoff moment this year has to be Dean Wade slipping on Harden. Sweat spot and Tobias get in the run out dunk. The referee should be embarrassed for allowing the ship for two decades. that would have been if the Cavs had lost that would have been the signature play but they won and now nobody will remember there also would have been like I'm sure there was an understanding between James Harden and the Cleveland Cavaliers about what would come next when he has this player option for next year yeah and the Clippers there was clearly an understanding about what would and would not come next with the Clippers and when there is an understanding of that nature James Harden tends to change teams and find one where he finds a better understanding but if they had just flamed out in this series and by the way he was two of ten today it's not like he covered himself in glory in this game he just didn't turn the ball over a lot I liked it I thought he was good it was two for ten was deceiving I I do think like and again I'm sure they've already kind of talked about it but I like can you just I would have been like you just opt into your player option and we can just wash our hands of this because he's getting old he's getting old in front of my eyes I don't think that's what happens it's I think the player option is 43 yeah no he's it's what's gonna happen is he's gonna he's gonna opt out and get a longer deal but I'm saying if he if they flame out in the series and he goes down like he's gone down at other game sevens before if I'm the Cavs I'm like I don't know man how many more years of this like I know we traded Garland don't you want to do what if it was like 27 and 27 is he gonna take that I guess I guess he would but he was in the what draft was he in 2009 he's old he's getting old anyone it's just Tim and Curry from that draft now right is there anybody else from that draft I don't know you're better at the draft stuff than I am I think that was but and you do get to you do get to have him as a trade ship in case you have one of those meetings that doesn't go well and then he gets traded to another place well the question is is this the third straight team he felt like he was wink wink promise something that then did not materialize yeah I did I didn't sense um I didn't sense a lot of empathy for uh Daryl Morey from the James Harden camp uh when the news of Daryl Morey's firing was rippling through the combine in Chicago last week I want to invite Daryl on my podcast and just pour truth serum into him get him to tell all kinds of stuff with the painting of Harden be in the background do you think he still has the painting remember the Ramona Shelburne wrote that piece and it was like sit in the living room stands this painting of commission from this artist for this amount of money and it's James Harden doing this and then it's a quote from Daryl being like yes he's my muse we will be forever connected we hugged on the tarmac all those years ago well when he has his podcast on the floor maybe James will be one of the first guests on the Daryl Morey show the Daryl and Doc show the Daryl Doc show would be amazing I don't I don't think that one will happen I don't know if there's a lot of the mismatch part two the mismatch 2.0 yeah that would be more than a mismatch I don't see those two getting together for a pod um all right Knicks Knicks Cavs let's do it are you well you'll do Tuesday morning so you'll be able to do a pick on that series so I won't step on your podcast listen to Zach's pod I'm gonna pick the Knicks I'm there's no amount of film study or whatever that I'm doing tomorrow that is gonna make me pick the Cavs I'm picking the Knicks it's just a matter of how many games I would lean right now toward Knicks in five um just because I think Mitchell will have one game when he goes nuts that's usually usually what happens with him I'll have one game where everything goes right would be my guess but I don't I just think the Knicks it's weird I think it's we have three classes of teams this year not two as we get in the final four because we have this OKC San Antonio all the way up here I think we have the Knicks here but punchers chance of being able to hang in a series against either of those teams no question and then probably the Cavs here I think those are the three levels yeah I think that's fair I think I think the Knicks could win the championship I wouldn't bet on it I wouldn't pick I'm not gonna pick them over either of the Western Conference teams but I if you told me it's a 25 chance they could win one of those series that sounds reasonable to me I think the Knicks winning the championship oh this is gonna get cut out of no social media video I'm fine with it I think the Knicks winning the championship is the biggest thing left in any sport other than the Bills Vikings or Detroit Lions winning a Super Bowl and I probably left out another team where their friends are gonna get mad at me but when you think about the Knicks not winning since 73 but the generations of fans and the drought of 20 years and it there's just so many parallels to me with the Red Sox pre-04 um the the just the emotion that will come out of that we cannot I don't think there's another basketball team that would have it and there's some that it's unrealistic because like the Sacramento Kings as long as they have the current owners will never win the title so we can't even be like oh in Sacramento it's a we'll never know because they're not going to win Phoenix a little bit just because of all their tough losses but other I just think the Knicks have the most fans New York's the biggest city we have generations of fans going back to the 50s and grandfathers and great-grandfathers and that I just think it's the biggest thing we have I well look I mean outside the arena is already a complete show after every game and I mean that mostly affectionately but also like leave J.R. Smith alone and leave poor Brian win horse alone this year if he comes to town um it's already insane there um and yeah I mean they're the Knicks I mean this is they are an absolutely iconic team they're in New York's team and New York is a big gigantic City I would throw out like the Timberwolves Vikings twofer in Minnesota would be pretty huge um well how about this Minnesota hasn't won a title of any kind since 91 and I don't even think the twins I don't even think they've been in the finals in any sports since 91. I'm pretty sure that's true I mean my North Star Wild history is a little muddled but the thing is like I know there's been a bunch of teams that have had droughts or have never won at all like the Maple Leafs fans are listening to me right now like what about us so just the Knicks are the biggest city in America like they have the most fans that's the point is like they've had 53 years of just getting their teeth kicked in and they have just a shitload of fans so that's that's why I would make that argument can I give you one more that I'm sure at 40 by the way I'm aware and we beat the Yankees today and come from behind uh bottom bottom of the 10th win uh to take the Subway series yet again um can I just throw one other team at you yeah I I am curious to know um what modern Atlanta would feel like if they got a team that they really felt like this could be a championship team like the the Bud Hawks I think everybody knew they're gonna run into the Cleveland buzzsaw at some point and this was like a very fun team and a very fun story for like the basketball a seat right like oh they pass the ball they do all this cool stuff with Korver like what if they just like like Jalen I mean Trey Young was but they didn't like Anthony Edwards uh whatever don't don't do that like University of Georgia Georgia native Anthony Edwards and had a team where you like actually believed that it's that seems like they would go crazy there that would be a pretty good one hey listen lots of teams have a one Indiana get back there after the Halliburton coming so close and Halliburton going down like that would be another one but um I just think the Knicks have the they've so many fans it's something about that I don't know I don't know what to say about something but I you and I I mean it's a little less fair for you because you're in the vicinity I'm in the heartlands we just I just know so many Knicks and it's like all they want this is it um all right I'm going Nixon five okay it's my pick I don't know what the odds are let's uh let's talk Spurs okay see oh my God you um you were asking me what I thought the most anticipated series has been since you and I have known each other which was 2011. I tried to hire you it didn't work out and then you finally finally came to Grantland the next year um you sent me all these series that you thought were in the running for most anticipated playoff series trying to trying to get my headspace back into what it was what it felt like before those series started yeah Kirk and I talked about this for a scratch on Tuesday and I said that I I felt like this was the biggest series in eight years but I didn't really put a ton of thought into it and then when you and I were talking about it I think the weirder thing to me is that we haven't had like a mammoth series like this in eight years and I don't really know all the reasons for that because I do think we have a lot of talent in the 2020s um I don't know if it's bad luck or I I don't really have an answer but I know that this is this feels like the single biggest series we've had at least since the first Cavs Warriors won but what would you what would you go like what what was the top five that you landed on so first of all my theories as to what you just the void that you just talked about I have a few theories will you let's hear it no let's go let's dive into it I'm curious I think the pandemic up like two and a half seasons they just didn't not that they don't count don't do don't Lakers fans I'm not saying that it just didn't they didn't the games didn't feel the same obviously I'll say it well no don't be the Lakers games are in a bubble with cardboard cutouts of fans and that was insane and then the next season there was attendance restrictions all over the league it just didn't and then I think the parody like we've had seven champions in seven years we just haven't had these like two colossuses who are rising next to each other and meeting in the playoffs over and over again 60 plus win just like juggernauts and now we're gonna have that I'll give you my top five I made my top five before you give me the top five yeah I have a point off your point because I'm glad you brought the covid I think that would have been the best and biggest and most anticipated series but we didn't get it because covid would have been Lakers Clippers first Kawhi year second LeBron year they were the two best teams in the league And we were headed that way. And I remember the weekend before all the COVID shit happened. And I think they might've even played that weekend. And it just was clearly, I remember doing a podcast that Sunday and it was like, this is it, man. We are headed. We've never had the LA versus LA collision course. This is fucking happening. Kawhi was the reigning finals MVP. LeBron had his fastball back. Like Davis was there. We were heading for it and it didn't happen. Streetlights over spotlights. The Clippers had the whole ad campaign that was like, we're the anti-Lakers of LA. It was great. And it just immediately was over for two plus years. We never had the awesome Nuggets kind of, oh my God, Nuggets series either. And probably the closest was that first battle with the Timberwolves when the Timberwolves ended up beating them in game seven. But there wasn't the anticipation for that, like with the Spurs. Anyway. The Nuggets are in a bunch, like a bunch of my honorable mention, top 20 anticipated series. Like I think Thunder Nuggets last year was like, that was a pretty hot series. But again, it wasn't like, it was earlier. No, you need like, it needs to feel like this is the finals right now. There's big legacy altering stuff. I have two of hopefully the two best guys in the league, but at least two of the best three or four, like you got to check a lot of boxes with this, which is what this series does. So what do you got? My top five. I did this from LeBron signing in Miami until now. Top five most anticipated series. I sent you a list. I have like 20. 20 finalists. My top five were, I'll go in reverse order. Number five, Oklahoma city, San Antonio, Western conference finals, 2012. It was like the old guys versus the young guys. The Spurs had acquired D out at the end of that, like a middle of that season. And they were on like a 20 game winning streak going into that series. Or they killed the Clippers, killed them. They, I think they had won 20 straight games after going up to, Oh, in that series. And then the Thunder were like, Oh, we're just younger and more athletic and we're actually ready. And they just wiped the Spurs out four in a row. So that was number five. But by the way, on that 2012, which was a great basketball season and it was right after the lockout. So it was all condensed, sped up and there was just a lot of basketball happening. And the thing that sucked is we lost Eric Rose at the beginning of that playoffs, but we had Chicago, Miami, Boston on one side. And then we had this lob city team that came out of nowhere because Chris Paul ended up on the Clippers. You had this proud Spurs team trying to get their throne back. You had OKC, you know, ascending, um, and then you, you had, was there was one more, right? OKC Clippers. Now that's it. Those three. So we had six teams. Grit and grind. Memphis was like floating around there. Yeah. Kind of lurking. But, uh, but yeah, that was a, I, I thought both of those thunder series because he heat thunder in the next round was also really great, but I liked the non-finals for this. Okay. I'm with you on that one. Number four, most anticipated, uh, series. Warriors, thunder, Western conference finals, 2016 ends up being the clay Thompson game six series. Um, just so I had that higher, I had that second on my list. Okay. No, because it was 73 and nine. It felt like it was Durant's last. Maybe he was getting out of there. Maybe he was going to Washington. Maybe he was going to Boston. The golden state buzz had started, but most people didn't know whether to believe it or not. But it just felt like there was something momentous happening ahead of us. Uh, I'm not done with that team, uh, that year yet on my list, uh, number three out of a bunch of candidates from this two year era, uh, the 2014 finals heat Spurs too. Um, I think just the happiest I've ever been covering basketball was being at the back to back heat Spurs finals. Just so many awesome players, awesome storylines, the vengeance storyline in the second one that the one out the 2014 one after the Ray Allen shot the year before broke to Spurs. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the air conditioning game is in that series where the air conditioning goes out. Uh, I honorable mention, I just think the Spurs, the Spurs thunder conference finals from that year is also awesome. Um, that's why number, that's my number three, by the way, Clippers Clippers thunder that year was awesome too. Right. Wasn't that 14 honorable mention, not so awesome for the Clippers, but honorable mention, uh, the Clippers had quite a dramatic playoff run that year with Donald Sterling happening, right before, uh, number two, the 2016 NBA finals, 73 wind warriors, LeBron and the calves. Just the, the, the rematch after the first one had Kyrie injured, Kevin love injured, and it ended up being not quite a fair fight as the warriors won their first title. And number one, just slightly over that 2018 Western conference finals warriors versus the rockets team with Chris Paul and James Harden. And they switched everything and were built to beat the warriors and actually had them on the road. So I think that's my number one. I think that's my number one. the title gap kobe the big three celtics going for one last ring when it felt like they should have had another one and never did and just i i don't think that was a crazy i mean i'm sure we could go back and find other candidates for such a lofty designation but it had to be up there yeah there's a there's a couple finals that i think levitate above the rest of them 2016 it's definitely like that i mean that's you could argue that that might be the biggest one at the time in 2010 i was thinking is this one game obviously yeah 2016 that that was no but i'm saying going into certain series and being like wow they're the stakes just feel higher right now that's why like if we get a game seven in this first under series oh my god i think we're gonna feel that way right because on this i know wimpy's 22 but i don't care man he's seven foot seven like you you got to take it year by year when somebody's got that kind of size and i just i'm always nervous about injuries with him you and then okc you know you just never know it's really hard to just put title seasons together it's hard to keep everybody happy they've done a great job of it presti famously and some of the stuff starting to come out a little about how he approaches player evaluation and stuff but really thinks about personality chemistry wanting to build these guys that are all going to pull for each other that's why he sees somebody like jared mccain he just grabs him there's like a certain type of person that he values and they probably had the best chance of anyone of having a long long run with a tail without any disease or more stuff happening but um well you talk about stakes like shea just won his second mvp in a row today it was announced yeah if he they go if they break shams somehow scooped everybody but was it a scoop did we did anyone think shea was not winning the mvp uh is there one person i'm sure um no but i mean i i don't think it was a surprise but i'm sure the league and its broadcast partners preferred that to be or the other broadcast partners preferred that to be outed a different way um yeah that wasn't great but but uh if they break the no repeat streak in the nba now and he wins another finals mvp and they're still pretty young i mean like the the historical stakes for him and for this thunder team are are now very big and they they will begin to put if they win another title and they break the no repeat run they will begin to put themselves into position with another title whether it's next like if they win three out of four or four out of seven or something they will get into some pretty big historical discussions and like that starts now that starts with like this this title and this is the first time they mean they've it feels like they've barely participated in the playoffs it's been so easy for them and now we're here yeah back-to-back finals mvp jordan hakeem shack kobe lebron and durant that's the entire list and then back-to-back regular season mvps russell will kareem moses bird magic jordan duncan nash lebron curry yannis and yokich the yannis second mvp gotta gotta reinvestigate that one at some point well look no one reinvestigates an mvp race like you i mean you got a whole team under you i think i voted for yannis but i but now it's like when they always talk about that lebron won enough mvps that might have been the shaky one that he should have taken i think he finished second i got i'd have to look back yeah i don't know i remember voting for yannis both times so anyway the the the people who have done the back-to-back regular season and finals mvp it's not a not a long list also speaking mvp yokich got second place he he officially top two mvp six straight years him bird and russell that's the whole list wow i'm surprised i thought it started in the in the voting that it was yeah 83 first uh first placers for shay 10 for joker and five for wimby so you thought joker would get more votes who'd you think was gonna get more votes i thought yokich would would snag like 10 more first place votes or would just be a little bit less of a route um than it was this episode is brought to you by 20th century studios whalefall only in theaters october 16th based on the acclaimed book by poets prize winner daniel krauss it's the tale of a diver fighting for his life after being swallowed by a whale experience the ultimate survival story that's unlike any movie you have ever seen before don't miss whalefall only in theaters october 16th this episode is brought to you by paypal every winning team has that one player who can do it all the new paypal app it's kind of like that you can shop pay earn rewards manage your account all in one place plus find offers deals and stackable rewards paypal also offers purchase protection on eligible items so you're covered if something doesn't go your way download the new paypal app to get started see paypal.com slash protection terms this episode is brought to you by carhartt we spend a lot of time talking about football the players the coaches the big plays but there's a whole other team we rarely think about the people who make the game possible the workers building stadiums paving parking lots growing the grass welding the grass and building the stadiums paving the parking lots growing the goal posts even making the footballs they're committed to their craft and they're doing the work long before kickoff carhartt is proud to outfit those crews so next time you're watching a game take a second to appreciate the people behind it learn more at carhartt.com slash join the trades i have a a segment i didn't tell you about called spurs okc legacy check okay well like let's check some legacies out just mentioned shea okay he's really going for something unique here with the back-to-back and finals mvp and run mvp chet has there's seeds of the wimpy feud going really since like 2023 it's like is something's here that doesn't seem like these there's a lot of love between these two guys and um now they have a chance to really go at it he's i think he's solidified himself as the second best thunder guy it's probably the second best defender in the league second best center um he's their best chance to maybe nullify wimpy a little bit i don't know if wimpy can be nullified it might be impossible well let's say he's definitely not fun shed stuff here he's definitely not the second best center in the nba i'm sorry i'm joking yes the third best center uh yeah i mean this goes back to before you know they were even in the nba the international basketball scene there's a lot of there's a lot of wimpy chet history and i'm just gonna say like just let's see how jalen williams looks before i mean it doesn't really matter they're both awesome but before we definitively say that chet has now surpassed him as the second best player in the thunder i mean this was a dude who was like oh my god is he gonna is he gonna steal finals mvp at the last minute here from yeah he's gonna play he's ready oh i forgot what he looked like well you get ready he's gonna look right you're gonna see him again he was on my legacy list i wrote jalen williams hyphen um were you here i guess he was there do you not remember the finals last year he was unbelievable he was awesome i had him i had him like 12th of my ringer 100 just like to see him play can he play can he play some basketball uh legacy sam presti okay i think a title getting by this series and then the next series i think officially um he becomes one of the great jams of all time i think it's just official yeah you're talking our back and west and riley jerry kraus pick anyone but um to put that whole durant run together not have a quick get there and then do what he did with this decade it's he's certainly been the best gm in the league for how many years now the one that people point to yeah i mean 15 i don't know if it's quite that long it's very long time and there's indisputably he's in the gonna go in the pantheon of the best ever to do it yeah aj mitchell best contract in the league bordering on one of the best this century with the way he's playing making three million dollars a year ridiculous trade bait or keep bait for them and in my opinion hold on to your horses zach low yeah the single most important thunder player in this series thunderer single most important thunderer for this reason the spurs are gonna go small and do that three guard thing and try to do speed and unleash their pitbulls and they need mitchell to be really good they need him to be as good as he was the last two rounds they're gonna have to play lineups with him and sga together and a defender and might even have to go a little smaller and he's just gonna have to be good he's gonna have to do what he's done and we haven't seen him do it at this level we've seen him do it in the regular season we've seen him do it in the regular season we've seen him do it against in series where they were much better than the other team this is a whole other level so we're gonna find out i love that you brought him up and i think you did for exactly the right reasons i think it's very much worth noting that he missed three out of the five games the teams played this year and you felt his absence in the games he wasn't there uh just the secondary but the more ball handling you could i mean the spurs secret sauce against the thunder was we have a ton of ball handling and enough that we can a get into the pan against your defense and b not collapse and we can do it again and again and again and again and again and again and again in a hail of turnovers because we have reliable guards and that's what you feast on but the thunder can play similar lineups now that aj mitchell has become aj mitchell to this degree and i think we're going to see like i've been waiting for the thunder death lineup all year year, and we've barely seen it, and it's Shea, AJ Mitchell, Caruso, Jalen Williams, Chet Holmgren at the end of some games or in crunch time of some games. We've had glimpses of it. One of the glimpses was in one of the Spurs games. I was re-watching all of it. I think that's an awesome lineup that if we see everyone healthy, we'll see a little bit more of it, hopefully, in this series than we've seen. What's the lineup again? Shea, Mitchell, Jalen Williams, Caruso, Chet. It's like I want to close. Can I close games with that? So I have enough defense with Caruso and Chet. But I have a little more offense than, say, AJ in the Dort spot. Three super dynamic ball handlers in Mitchell, Shea, and J-Dub, and just I just think, like, look, there's no Dort, so you lose a little heft, right? And there's no Cason Wallace, who's sort of your defensive ace in the hole at all times, but just something to watch for. Because the other thing with the Spurs is this is a fun series for them because they can play the Wembley with smaller guys in this lineup. They can play them with three guards in a swing, you know, play them with three and a half guards, whatever they want. And it's not like OKC would be like, OK, we're going big, and they're just not going to be able to do it. So I do think the guards versus guards thing, which was a huge advantage for San Antonio, OKC has the guards. So I have Mitchell. Alex Caruso, role player hall of fame is like in reach now for him. Absolutely. This will be three titles for him. I think they really need him in this series specifically because I want to see, who do you think guards Harper for them? I mean, I think it's going to all of these are just going to be a combination of tons of different people, depending on who else is in the game. So let's say end of the game. They go Fox Harper Castle Bissell and Wembley. I mean, they rarely play that. The Spurs rarely put all three of the guards on the floor together. It just hasn't happened very much this year. But sure, we can. They were doing a little more in the playoffs, though. Just a little, but not very much because Champagne plays a ton. Keldon Johnson plays a ton. Yeah. And yeah, but so and like, well, this is the I mean, this is the interesting chess match of the series. It's right. Like, I think we would the Thunder are awesome in any configuration and we have not seen hardly any of Hartenstein and Holmgren together against the Spurs with Wemby on the floor. So those those two, the double big, the best double big they have that you can't you got to play shooters. They've only played 33 minutes against the Spurs in five games. And it was really only in three games. And if you go back and watch, a lot of them were against Cornette and Harrison Barnes because Wemby came off the bench in two of the games that they played. And so they start and Wemby comes in and like when it's Wemby is the only big man on the floor for the Spurs and Chet is the only big man on the floor for the Thunder. I just think the chess match that's going to evolve over the course of the series is going to be fascinating, starting with do they guard each other? And if so, how often? Because the Thunder have put Chet on, you know, Harrison Barnes, Kelton Johnson, basically not Wemby. And the Spurs have kind of toggled between Wemby. Sure, you can guard Chet, you can guard anybody, but we like you have like guard Caruso and Rove, guard Dort and Rove. Like, I just think that chess match is going to be super interesting. And will Dort guard Wemby? Is that something that will happen? Dort guarded Fox a lot. So their base alignment when it was one big versus one big, if they had one that was used the most frequently, it was like Dort on Fox, and Jalen Williams on Wemby to switch that pick and roll, and they would have the bigs elsewhere on the floor. But Dort will guard Wemby some, Caruso guarded Wemby some, like they'll throw everybody, they'll put Hartenstein on them now and then, like particularly, I think, when the starters are against the starters. It's just going to be super interesting to see who guards who. It's going to be, I'd love to know how many people OKC is going to actually settle on as the series goes along. Because they were basically playing 10 and sometimes even 11 in the last two rounds. But I think that gets narrowed down. I think they probably end up at nine, would be my guess, right? That's usually what it is. I'll tell you, I can't tell if it was because OKC was, you know, like A.J. Mitchell was out for a bunch of games, a couple of three of the games, as I mentioned. But like a guy that saw a lot of the floor against the Spurs in the regular season games, and who has not played hardly at all in the playoffs, is Kenrich Williams. And I do wonder if he's someone that they look at as, do we try him at the five a little bit, or we like his shooting at the four next to Chet? He guarded Wemby a bit. I wonder if he's a guy that is going to get a shot to play a little bit in the series. Wemby, I have for Legacy as this would be the single craziest ascent since 1977 Bill Walton. Pretty much. If you're just like, hey, I'm going to actually win four straight series and take the title here at age 22. Harper, is definitely moving into that 1981 McHale 83 worthy 88 Pippen, 2003 Manu and Tony, where this is just a guy at the beginning of his career who is also a huge chess piece. And it's somebody that I genuinely think he has a chance to be a Hall of Fame top 50 guard. House and I were talking about the other day. I was there when young Jason Kidd showed up and, you know, some of the best guards of the last 40 years I've seen the beginning stages. I just think he has it like I would bet anything. I don't think that's a daring bet. He had absolutely has it. He's going to be a star. There is a world in which this was a popular debate question. I was meeting everyone at the combine was best player from that draft in five years and 10 years. Is it automatically Cooper or is it Harper? Those were the two automatic. No, I think people would defer to the size that Cooper has. But I think Harper being the best player in the draft is in play. And by the way, all the love Harper's getting is incredible. Like he's incredible. And the nobody comparisons, their lefties, they come off the bench. Nobody's mentoring him. It's an amazing story. He is totally step up in the playoffs. Steph Castle's averaging 26 and five on 49% shooting and 44% on three and just being a gigantic pain in the ass to everyone at every position on defense and he's going to guard SGA a lot. And like, I just can't. I just can't wait for that. What a show that's going to be. I had Castle as the next legacy guy. I wrote down horrific haunting of the 2024 top three draft. Oh my God. What a sliding horrific at this point. The Reed Shepard stuff. I mean, for teams that have all of them, I had him first, but but but for teams that have massively high stakes like are ready to win big right now, the Rockets and the Spurs and the Spurs didn't quite know that they were going to be ready this fast. Like that's a huge sliding doors moment in like the coming history of the West. Brutal Cornette and Barnes. I was going to say when are we champs? I was literally going to say, when are we going to get to Cornette second title? When is that? How about Barnes? Well, but you Darren Fox escaped from Sacramento. This guy was playing on the Vivek run of dive Kings 18 months ago and now is in the best series in 10 years. I just watched the jailbreak deal the jailblazers documentary on Netflix escape escape from Sacramento. Sounds like the next Netflix or Amazon basketball mini doc. Um, Mitch Johnson versus Dagnall, the most boring, great coach matchup in NBA history. Sure. Can anyone name three things about either of these guys? Mitch Johnson went to Stanford and Mark Dagnall coached the Tulsa Blue. Levinster, Massachusetts. I know that. Mitch Johnson, son of John Johnson. Yeah. NBA champ Seattle ended up on the Celtics in 1976 and something got screwed up and I can't remember what happened. The trade got voided or the signing, something weird. And they actually had to trade him again to Seattle. But during that brief time, looked at my mom and dad's condo, came into the condo because we were selling the condo, moving to another house. And John Johnson, new member of the Celtic walked through the condo and six year old me almost had a heart attack or seven year old me, however old I was. What a, what a, that's, that's my most exciting Mitch Johnson story for you. That's a, it's a lot of information about Mitch Johnson's dad. Do how long could somebody spend? With Mitch Johnson and Dagnall together drinking beers before something fun would happen? I bet two hours. No, I bet not that long. I like because the Levinster is going to come out of Dagnall at some point. Everyone gets, you get a couple of people, a couple of beers in, it becomes a fun time. Um, one of my college roommates was from Levinster, Chuck LaPosta, LaPosta, Chuck LaPosta. All right, shout out Chuck. Uh, and then last one for me for legacy check, Adam Silver. Okay. The Spurs Knicks series is sitting right there. This is your biggest rating series since 2016. Wemby versus the Knicks. What, what a, pull some strings. Remember when the Spurs were the boring killers of ratings, even when they were like, yeah, just immaculate, immaculate basketball team. And now they have freaking like, I, nobody can take their eyes off this dude for people who know nothing about the NBA are asking you about him and watching these games. And by the way, I'm like, we're, we've barely scratched the surface on just how awesome this series, um, could be. I mean, we were texting like. I, I, I looked it up. Cause I'm like, man, the Spurs, every loss they've had in the playoffs has been like, Wemby got a concussion. Wemby didn't play. No, they have three Astros losses. Yeah. Wemby got ejected. And I looked it up in the last, since February 1st. And look, everything says the Thunder should win, right? It's experience versus youth. The Spurs haven't taken their lumps back to back champs, number one seed, all of that stuff. And their record's incredible. And it's absolutely terrifying to not pick the Spurs because since February 1st, the Spurs are 37-3 three playoffs in regular season when Wemby plays at least 15 minutes in a game, 37 and three in half a season. It's at, they just don't lose when he plays a real game. They don't lose any games anymore. It feels like they're just up 20 all the time, but you could say the same about. Okay. So, um, I'm picking the Spurs. Okay. They are. What, what, what is there? What are the odds for this right now? Let's see. So they are plus two 20 for the series. I'm taking it. Um, I would do Spurs in five 50 to one or Spurs in six plus 5550. These are bets. Are you just picking them to win the series? No, I'm picking the Spurs to win. I'm just saying that the value I like are those two. I think what I think asking the Spurs to win a game seven with how young their team are is in. Okay. See, he's a little ambitious. I think it has to be in six. I like, and Van Gundy mentioned it today. It's a great point. I thought Van Gundy has been really good. The whole playoff. Shout out to him. Two man booth, clearly his destiny for broadcasting three man. Didn't like him. Two man. Great. Um, made a great point about the rustiness thing. We see this every year. We always forget the team that's been playing and is in the groove and, you know, can just go from one series. They always have an advantage in game one over the team that hasn't played. So I think the Spurs, uh, I really think they actually have to win game one, um, to win the series as goofy as that sounds. And I think they are going to win game one. And, uh, so that one on FanDuel Spurs to win game one in the series is plus four 50. So I like that bet too, but I think the Spurs are going to win Zach. I, I just think they've caught lightning in a bottle and this feels like 77 blazers to me. I'm tired of thinking about the teams from the past and how you got to learn and take your lumps. And I just don't think it matters. They have a seven foot seven guy who's out of control and a bunch of pit bulls and they absolutely struck oil with this Dylan Harper thing. Like this is to get those three guys and back-to-back drafts. This is the kind of fluke you need to win a title. And your best guys are 22, 21 and 20. And I think it's going to, I think they're going to win. I, I, I said it on Christmas, the Spurs can win the championship and they absolutely can win the championship. Um, I, Oh, and I forgot one more thing in my, my pick. Okay. The Jalen Williams thing is I, I know he's going to be back and they feel good about it, but I think it's a weird variable to introduce into the biggest series of the year. And I don't think it's going to be seamless. And I do think OKC is too many guys. I don't know about all the roles with all those guys and they can, I know they have great chemistry and all that stuff, but I don't even think they know who their best five to seven guys are. Whereas I think San Antonio knows, I think they know exactly who they are, what lineups work and don't work for them. And I just think they're going to win. These are all great reasons to pick the Spurs. You don't even need great reasons to pick the Spurs. They won 60, whatever games 37 and three in their last 40 games on a one B plays more than 15 minutes. I mean, it's an unimpeachable pick. They can absolutely win the title. I'm going to pick the thunder and seven. Um, did you respect it? The Jalen Williams thing is not a worry to me other than is he going to get re-injured again? Um, I think he probably could have come back earlier had they, had they felt any kind of pressure at all from either the sons of the Lakers and they got to sit them out for a long time. Um, I do, I still will like defer a little bit to the experience factor and having been through these moments of like big total stress. Although the Spurs seem completely carefree to the point that when B was like, yeah, I'll kick a game by elbowing Nas read in the head. Like, I don't really care. We'll lose this one. We're going to be fine. I just want to elbow. And I was reading the head cause I'm fucking annoyed at everything. Yeah. Uh, and I look, they, have a little thunder got a lot of guys. I, they have a ton of continuity. So I don't think in reintroducing J-Dub is going to be that big of a deal. And they're just going to have to make some decisions. Maybe it's a big versus small decision. Maybe it's like not an Isaiah, Isaiah Joe series. Maybe it's whatever. They've already done it with Aaron Wiggins too. And whatever 37 and three, you can make, there's a similar record sitting out there for Oklahoma city. And it's last like 40 games with Shay or something like that. Um, it's scary. This is a, what the Spurs did to them in the regular season. The regular season was legit. I went back and watched all the film. You can definitely see Shay looking uncomfortable, looking like this is my pet. This is my pet jump shot. This is a pet move. I do every game, but I don't have it anywhere, but the guy on me is a pretty good defender. And like, I see that the giant arm there, and I know he can jump really far and get to, and like, you would see him pull out of shots that he makes in his sweep. But I think I, I looked, these are two awesome teams. I think Oklahoma city has home court advantage. They're more experienced. And I do think they probably have a little bit of an extra gear that they've been waiting and saving and reserve for a series like this. So I'm going to defer to the champs and pick thunder. And my second, as long as, as long as we're being full disclosure, my second backup pick would be thunder and six. Like this is not a case where I'm picking thunder and seven, but I kind of don't, it's wishy-washy and it's 50, 50. I would, I'm picking the thunder to win the series. So I think I would go thunder and seven, thunder, six, maybe spurs in six is the third, most likely outcome, but I'm going thunder. We both agree. Long series, six games is plus two, 10 on Fando and plus two 20 is seven games. And that's another way to do it. You can just bet both. What's sweet. Plus 1200 or something like that. Oh my God. Spurs sweep is 25 to one thunder sweep is plus five 50. I just don't see it. That's a little lower than I would have expected. Okay. See in five is plus two 90. Okay. See in six is plus four 70. It's pretty strong actually. Can I just give Mitch, can I just give Mitch Johnson a little love for this? Yeah. I mentioned how like the teams have obviously all season gone back and forth with putting their, their centers not on a Webby and Oklahoma city has done that quite a bit. And castle is now like the guy that they try to do. This with and castle has just been like, you think this works? Like this isn't going to work. How about I just shoot 45% of three. And when I'm not doing that, how about I just barrel to the rim with all the space you're giving me? And I'll score 32 points in an elimination game. But he's been the guy that like clinging guarded castle and on and on mid season, moving Harrison Barnes to the bench in favor of Julian Champagny. I mean, it's one of the most important mid season adjustments that coach has made in a long time. It completely changed. The spurs because Harrison Barnes was the safest guy to put your center on. And Mitch Johnson had to go to Harrison Barnes who was having a nice year and making a ton of corner threes, but starting to slow down, be like, Hey man. And is a, is a bigger, better defender than Julian Champagny, bigger for sure. Better in certain situations and say, we're going to, we're going to start this unproved, like relatively unproven shooter over you because we just have to maximize when B and you're, you're too safe of a hiding spot for these other centers. They can roam off. You, they don't have to guard him. And our goal just has to be, we're going to make it as hard as possible for you to finagle the matchups with, with where your center is on the floor. And like it's Julian Champagny. It's not like some like 10 year veteran with a track record and Harrison Barnes ate it and he took it and you remain productive. And now he's barely playing because that's what happens in the playoffs. And it worked. And it was like not a gutsy move, but it was like a, it was a big like seismic shift in how the spurs are, are guarded. I think. It's a good one. It's a good one. Um, Minnesota quick. This is another thing for my San Antonio case. I think Minnesota was really good. And I think San Antonio just kind of broke them as a series went along specifically Randall, who just his brain broke during that series. So rough, rough playoffs for Edwards. Wasn't a hundred percent. They use some stuff against Minnesota. Um, you know, obviously they were lying on Conley a little too much. Go bear. Was eradicated in that series, but I, I actually thought it was a more impressive six game win because they really should have just swept them. You know, when we gets kicked out of the one game, I don't know that that game one, looking back like they, if champagne just hits the three, they, maybe they win that. But, uh, I really liked that Minnesota team, which brings me to a, what do you do with them? Um, Minnesota Randall has 36 this year, or this, this upcoming year and 33 the next year, go bears 36 and 38. They asked them to figure out IO and defense. And so it was 12.5 expiring next year. Um, I don't think Edwards or McDaniels goes anywhere. Do you buy anything that this team got a little screwed up, um, holistically when everybody was getting shot for three minutes there, when they thought they had a chance to get Giannis? Um, not really because you, you didn't hear a lot of that when they were kicking the shit out of the nuggets in the first round. Like it wasn't a price. It wasn't a problem then against a team with, you know, one of the two or three best players, minimum two best players in the world. And when you lose, then it becomes a problem all of a sudden, but against that team was a problem. What's the problem is Julius Randall has been in the playoffs four times in his career. And three of them have been complete disasters. And one of them last year was we thought, okay, got over the playoff hump after just, I think he came into last year shooting like 30% for his career in the playoffs and had a great playoffs. And he reverted right back to what he had been in the first two runs of the playoffs that was that i is that because of the trade stuff i don't really i don't really buy that i think what really submarine them was anthony edwards was 100 percent io was 100 percent even chenzo tore his achilles and they stopped playing bones highland like they just kind of ran out of ran out of guys and then go there had four points combined in the last two games of the series i think it's a good showing for them to with all that injury stuff to take two out of this off the spurs i think is a perfectly fine showing doesn't feel good so they can they can put together rando and deep and chenzo's expiring he's not going to play next year if he plays it won't be back till april and you could take back somebody else's big money problem if you want okay like you could be like all right we'll take zach levine's last year why is that why what is that doing for me i'm just i'm just pointing out they could put those contracts together if they wanted to change something they could think about something like that somebody's big expiring um which would give them more trade flexibility in december january february maybe than what they have um i don't know what you do about gobert after that spurs series um and who knows it might be a get over the hump thing like we talked about earlier where they had their run and this is kind of where they are and now they're clearly just going to be behind san antonio and okc for the rest of the decade and that's where we are you know what's the thing that's going to be behind san antonio and okc for the rest of the decade you know what though i get again like this is a franchise that from the last couple years of garnett to the one jimmy butler year just sucked sucked continuously and sucked in every possible fashion i mean like a little flirting with like we're all we're 500 with ricky rubio and kevin love we're like a fun team to watch nicole peck of it but like they just weren't good they did nothing in the playoffs they had the one butler year they lose in the first bad injury luck with rubio bad injury luck without jefferson and just like everything goes wrong and then they but the butler thing goes haywire and then you're back not quite to square one but back to like we got to figure out what the hell we're doing with this team and now you've been in two straight conference finals in a conference semi-final where you win two games off victor women i'm like this is just indisputably an awesome three years for the minnesota like all of their fans should are elated by everything that's happened with all that said you can't bring randall back well what are you going to do you have to figure out how to trade him for somebody else well this was the this was always the mystery of like they're in any honest they're in any honest they're in any honest they're one of the teams that's like in in last 72 hours still in contact with milwaukee and i never got how that was going to happen because they don't have any they have very minimal to no first round picks to trade i never believed it i never understood i believe they were getting them but i i i believe but mcdaniel's would have had to have been in the trade for them to have any sort of assets to then give up for yannis i think well yeah i don't i don't know again i don't know how but yes if there's a person on their team who's getting you multiple good first round picks that's who it is and you know i i don't i just don't know how they're going to do it but if they were trying then they'll surely try again for adults with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms every choice matters trim fire offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start trim fire is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks if your doctor decides that you can self-inject trim 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apply visit the website for full terms and conditions god i hate bringing this up can we talk about yannis's trade value for a second i mean you this is your favorite one of your favorite topics so go ahead well we're going to be talking about it for the next four to five weeks he was in the news this week because miles turner gave that interview talking about that was that was pretty i have no problem saying this because he's not going to be on my team like next year so here's some tea i'm gonna spill um or it's just like hey man they paid me 25 million dollars a year where i didn't have a lot a lot of other options i'm just happy as a clam this is all great for me i know he's stunk this year though um i can't really find the team for yannis i thought this was going to be a lot easier last year if we were doing this a year ago i think we had multiple years and uh just just kind of talking to people and hearing from different people about this i'm really surprised how lukewarm the market is for him i don't think people feel like this is a home run this will change my franchise i will now have a chance to win the title it was telling that san antonio and okc wanted no part of them when they had the most assets it seems to me that the team that would trade for yannis would be a team that needs to take a little bit of a hail marrier as a really short window and that rules out a lot of teams i you know my dad and i have kind of landed the we hope it's not the celtics that's where i've landed after looking at this from every direction i don't simmons colon awful announcing tomorrow simmons oh jesus i don't want yannis in boston get that guy fucking out of here um i don't know i went through all the stuff what two months ago about the year 14 and after big guys and how how kind of creepy the stats were and how few guys even were able to put up 2010s and um the injury history hit in the last five years and it just doesn't something's just telling me to stay away and i know some teams will talk themselves into it but i just don't know what he's worth i don't i can't figure it out so what have your as you talk to people in the league what are you hearing so i mentioned this last week when i got back from the combine that um it like the thing coming out of the combine is that the team that's going to be in the combine is going to be open for business jimmy haslam came out and said we're going to be open for business again we wanted to do it before the draft if we're not going to sign him or if he's not going to sign whatever um and it just like there's a it's a it's an interesting paradox because there's a general i mean everyone was in chicago i saw a million people yeah there's a there's a general assumption that he will get traded because that's just what happens right like when the tooth basis is far out of the tube yeah and you know there's a general assumption that he will get traded yet no one can really identify the team that that fits the right the right package of like we have stuff a lot of stuff that's going to entice milwaukee and we're going to be good enough to justify sending out all that stuff when yannis is here and i i said this i had uh i met up with a a very high powered agent who knows things and we were just shooting the shit and i said so what's your what's your bet on yannis and he said you know i'm i'm just i'm going no trade i'm in the contrarian zone i think i'm going no trade i think he's going to be on the bucks and i was like really why he's like i just don't know what the team is who's the team go through all the teams find the team and it was like i heard you say this it was like a fairly convincing argument that i still but didn't sway me like i think he's going to get traded still and that's why i said after all that if i just had to bet if you made me like pick a team that is it if i just had to guess if he's traded whereas he traded i would put miami as my number one guest team because they fit the hail mary thing you just said because they have just enough stuff that if they threw it all together the bucks could sell it as like hey we got we got a lot and maybe we can reflip this one guy we got and like get another thing and but i don't feel great about that package whatever it is if i'm milwaukee portland would be the other team and i don't even know if you'd want to go there yeah the other thing is at least he's not a two-way player so he can travel to all the games right i think he's fixing that though dundon he didn't he he went out and he's like i'm he went on game over with richard max and said he thought he thought it was more like hockey and i saw that i saw i didn't realize all the players went to the games yeah well he learned he learned a valuable lesson um some of the stuff we keep hearing everybody seems terrified about the injury history and the miles on the body right using almost like a running back in football or a car that has a ton of miles on it that's gone cross country just wondering if i get yannis how many years left am i actually getting there's also the stylistic thing if you already have a best player on your team how is that person going to fit with yannis the guy who likes to have the ball who likes to be at top of the key um how do you how does that fit with somebody like jason tatum right and then you know that i i i think everybody loves yannis the guy i think everybody thinks he's a great guy but there's some there's some stuff that comes with yannis right he's got multiple agents he's got uh he's got the two brothers um he's been the superstar in a in his own team now for 11 12 years probably used accustomed to certain treatments and it's just it's risky to bring somebody in like that we've seen it not work in the nba where it's like i'm a big star i'm walking in this is now my new team and sometimes it doesn't work even when dame came to milwaukee it was rocky there for a year it was a similar situation so i think we're i think we're both looking at the same team and but would you kind of hail mary situation would you say you still expect him to be traded though i do i do too because um here's what i think has changed i think it's become acrimonious with him and the gm i think him not playing at the end of last year i i don't think it's on good terms well look understanding i mean the miles turner stuff got kind of a chuckle from people but that was real shit man he was basically saying the dude was never on time ever without saying who it was but we knew who he was talking about and like oh i mean i didn't realize i i did he not say who it was did he not did he just say it's the best player or whatever um yeah he there was some dancing around but you could tell who he was talking about i mean that's and he certainly wasn't kind to doc either that kind of stuff annoys whoever it is annoys players like i've heard stories about we had to hold the plane because this guy was late and everyone's grumbling because they have dinner plans when they get to the city or like the guy the guy was late for his massage table appointment and it like had created this whole backup that ruined everybody's days and when the guy if if it if he's talking about you honestly when the you just if you're the best guy on the team and you're the franchise guy you can't do that stuff is not acceptable for someone you have to be the other way you have to be the guy who sets the standard for the rest of the team there's one other team that i think we have to mention and it ties into another theme that i've been wondering about if there's going to be punishment against the clippers should they be moving fast right now and trying to trade their picks in case they're worried that they might get taken away and if you're going to do that like do you just could you just trade the number five pick for yannis right now and just we're trying to win a title with kawaii and yannis and garland and yeah i think they would have the cap space to do it they could put a couple expirings there to make it to make it work and basically try to jump start if they feel like a punishment's coming because i think that the feeling is we're going to have a verdict pretty soon the that would shock me if only because we're going to have a verdict pretty soon i mean i was there when it happened and i and i saw other people like they just feel like they got a new lease on life with this pick i mean just a new okay that it completely changed everything about their franchise and it would just absolutely blow me away if so who are the other hail mary teams then i guess you could say if cleveland gets annihilated by the knicks maybe they're in that that's what i was saying would you trade moby for yannis straight up at this point with the injury history because i don't think i would i'd be i don't think that's the case i don't think that's a smart move it's it'd be i don't know if i would do it honestly but it if like a couple years of mitchell plus yannis is is interesting yeah you're short here two year yeah that's like a classic two year window yeah um i'd be very nervous to do that so yeah how the playoffs um play out is a big part of it right we haven't mentioned houston and then you have the other kind of older hail mary teams who may not have enough to get it done like the lakers and the warriors and and teams like that right but who else that's it that's it rockets i mean would you trade shangoon and another contract for yannis and throw some picks in i don't know if i would do that the only other one i could think of is brooklyn i do not as we said before i don't think they're keeping their six pick and is it like a two-part move where move one is yannis move two is something else and you go in on two stars and now you're in the mix in the east well that's the thing with brooklyn is like they've been floating around the rumor mill like this with yannis for a long time and the question has always been like what who is yannis going there to play with and given his age and his injury history you don't get a year to be like we'll find another guy like that year you have to have your team ready to compete at the highest possible level the six pick is super interesting like i haven't heard a lot of buzz about the nets in the six pick yet but they're just in the range where everybody's a guard and they just drafted a million guards and and not all of them are like your guy burry's is not a is not a point guard so maybe he would fit there but it is an interesting place for them to land he can't a cuff a cuff or waggle or have to has to be six they just have the most value and they don't need either of those guys i also think all the intel i've gotten is that they don't want to have another rebuilding year like they want to be good they're tired of this and the nets are in a weird spot the side family who i think everybody thinks are great owners and it's like a first class team they have this awesome wmba team situation where they sell out people love it there's real energy in the arena and then they have this nets team that's just punted and they're playing in the same city as a team that's about to make the finals barring something crazy happening so i don't see how they don't try to i had someone make the the best possible pitch to me about the nets at the six pick and he was just i don't even remember who was it was a front office guy on another team he was just he didn't know anything concrete he was just saying this is what they should do he was like i don't even care who they took in the last draft they should take a cuff because he would just be like the ultimate draw like the hipsters would be like this kind of is a cool undersized guy who does cool stuff like he would just fit what they just give them a buzz give them some hipster like street cred like he would he was just like fuck all the guys they just picked maybe they'll develop maybe they won't they should take a cuff no matter what if he's still there i agree with that because because he has real kairi potential and you have to investigate it but yeah so if we're talking you know the draft's still five weeks away but i do feel like we're in range now it's may 17th the draft is in five weeks and i think some trade stuff is is starting you know for sure the celtics are certainly looking at it i think the celtics whatever i've talked about this already but whatever they decided to do with jalen i think would be i don't think it's a yannis move i think it's more of a can we get two pieces for jalen some salary cap relief and maybe somebody that makes less money than him two years from now type of thing but i would say they're way more likely to keep them than trade him you know i would i i do think it's more likely that he's on the team next year than not um i yeah i don't i don't know anything more than that so we'll see it's a weird situation all right well it's past midnight your time and you have to get up early tomorrow so we have to go anything else we cover everything i think we covered everything best thing you heard in chicago that you didn't talk about on your podcast oh god i talked about a lot of it on my podcast um seemed like a lot of people were there it was crowded it was it was uh everyone's always there it's one of the greats like vegas but in a shorter period of time uh and in a normal city uh and not vegas which i i do like vegas a lot actually but um i i'll have to think about that i have nothing all right so we have we have nicks and we have spur we i have the spurs you have okc and we both have nicks yeah okay um thanks thanks to zach low as well don't forget new rewatchables for me tomorrow borat nice really fun one um and then i'll be back on tuesday night zach's gonna have a new podcast on tuesday morning after game one spurs thunder which should be an all-timer it's great to see you as always it's it's gonna be a blast thanks for having me must be 21 plus and president select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or 18 plus and president dc kentucky or wyoming game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in maryland hope is here visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text hope ny in new york for louisiana call 877-770-7867 this episode is brought to you by whole foods market now this is a player in the food space that has championed winning food standards and quality since 1980 that means no added growth hormones or antibiotics in their meat and no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in their deli meats hot dogs or sausages plus all their seafood is responsibly farmed or wild caught they've even banned some ingredients store-wide to make sure there's nothing to mess with the flavors you want shop whole foods market in 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