Ammarah Ahmed: The Hidden Psychology Behind Why Customers Don’t Convert

What if your business is in customers, what your product isn't good enough, because the experience of using it is quietly pushing people away, customer can arrive with changing interests, understand what you are offering, and still live without buying. Sometimes the problem is in the produce, the price, or the marketing, is what happens in the moments between. This case is Amara Amet, the behavior of equity driven, the RO and US strategists, and the founder of precision consulting, which has been dedicating some of the pigeon's biggest group platforms, including delivering hero, food panda, telepaths, and others, working across 15 countries and eventually leading teams of more than 200 people, which are three P profit and loss responsibility. In 2002, Amara started a precision consulting, in 2005, she made a leap to build it full time. Today, after auditing more than 120 funnets, she combines behavior as a ecology data, US and practical groups' experiences to help businesses understand why people don't convert, and what to do about it. But as it is another layer to our story, Amara was offered the only one money in the room, she became the first two money in an extended family to move away from work independently, and the first to start a business. So they were talking about conversion, psychology, ambition, entrepreneurship, and being the outsider in high-pressure environment. What happens when you finally decide to build something on your own terms, Amara? Welcome to the show. Hey, Thorentin, thank you so much for having me, it's lovely to be here. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you so much, Amara. So you spent 10 years inside some of the biggest group platforms in the region. How did working that close to the non-bus tissue about why people actually buy or don't buy? A lot of businesses, you know, initially when we started working, I think we used to think that it had specifically to do with price, and don't get me wrong, pricing of course plays a huge role in why people buy or not, but what we need to understand is that there are different types of buyers, right, there are, you know, price-sensitive buyers. There are, you know, buyers who are looking for a certain experience, there are buyers who are looking for a certain quality, right? So even if you look at it from that perspective, it goes back to the psychology of the buyer itself. So you need to really understand why is your buyer present. And I think that's where the initial, you know, friction or the initial, I would say leakage in certain funnels begins when businesses really fail to understand that psychology of the traffic that's coming on to their platform. What, you know, is the buyer or the user that's coming on to their platform, or even the user that they're trying to attract, who is this ideal user? Why is their particular product the answer, you know, to their needs, and then how do they interact with their, you know, particular platform, their website or their app, what's their state of mind, what's their need, and when they're in there, then what are the information points that, you know, that they need to actually make this particular purchase? So I think a lot of it goes, you know, in a consideration. And oftentimes, you know, what we think is just top of the funnel which is get the people in and, you know, do we have the right price, but there's so much more in between that needs to take, be taken into consideration. All right, thank you so much for that wonderful answer. You have said businesses often leave revenue on the table, not because your product is broken, but because nobody has looks closely enough at how people move through it. What does that look like in practice? I think what that looks like in practice is a lot of the times, you know, businesses are so focused on failing traffic and optimizing, you know, the top of the funnel and what I mean by that is just really increasing their at spends, making sure that, you know, more and more traffic is coming in. But what happens is that they just have a larger group of people coming in and having a bad experience. So if they don't really look closely at the data of what is happening, once people come on to the platform, and what is the sort of experience they're having, where are, you know, people falling off, then what, then what you do is you set this sort of precedent in perception in the user's mind that that is just the sort of subpar experience that you provide. Right, and so you've wasted all those precious at dollars and you've kind of created this image of yourself, which is not the best. So I think what we really need to do is really look at, you know, the conversion numbers and not the conversion number as a whole. That's another issue that oftentimes we do is we just look at the overall conversion rate like a number of people that came onto the platform and number of people that bought. But really, you know, a funnel stage, the page to page conversion, how many people went from, you know, one page to another, and then further breaking it down, you know, from a mobile and a desktop, so platform level, because oftentimes when we look at it together, and no platforms conversion or presented being very high, can oftentimes cover up a particular platform, a particular, you know, platforms being very low. And so that really hides the real issue and stops you from actually fixing what needs to be fixed, right? And in that, what we often do is we don't realize what's broken. And so we just keep funneling in traffic and building on this already broken experience. And so our customers think, you know, that this is just the subpar experience, you know, that a company provides. And to be honest, then it's not even that we get to result them or we get to convert them into customers. These are just, you know, traffic or viewers that come in and never really convert into customers and they go. And so the next time or much later when you actually do, you know, start working on these things and you have fixed it and you retarget those people, it's, you have to spend a lot more or you have to work a lot harder to actually get traffic, because they've already come on and they've already had a negative experience, right? So now to actually get them back, it's a much harder job. So I think it's very important to be a lot more cognizant and a lot more, you know, conscious and careful about these details from the start itself and be more careful about your middle section of the funnel, because I think a lot of, you know, companies don't really focus on that. It's very much top line or, you know, how many orders are we getting, we're not really optimizing for the actual experience of the user. And we say things like, you know, customer, customer is king, but that's what we, if we really want to make a customer a centric experience, then that's what you need to optimize for, you need to optimize for the middle of the funnel, because that's the experience that the customer actually gets. So how, you know, seamless is that, how intuitive is that? Are they getting all the information that they need, you know, is it frictionless? Do they have all the pictures, you know, depending on what product you're giving are the contact touch points present? So of course, it depends on the industry and the product that you're selling, but that is the sort of focus, you know, that's required. Okay. Thank you so much. So moving on, what are some psychological reasons someone can genuinely want to produce, but still feels to take the next step. I think in today's day and age, honestly, there are, we have such influx of websites and platforms, there is no shortage of, you know, platforms availability of where one can actually go and buy a thing from, right? So oftentimes you have a high supply. So when you're actually going out and looking for a product, you will find it. Or even if you're, you know, scrolling, it's very easy, it's become very, you know, it's also become a very consumerism driven sort of like, you know, society were very used to, you know, just needing random nicknacks, whatever. And so oftentimes people will find themselves wanting to buy random things. Now what happens in terms of, you know, psychologically, some of the things that stop people from actually buying is, you know, is the trust factor, right? So let's say I genuinely actually really want something, but then I have questions like, you know, is this platform legitimate? If it's not a, you know, particular brand that I've heard of, if it's completely new brand, and this is not something that has, you know, gone viral, it may be completely legitimate. But because it's new and, you know, I come on to the website, and it does not seem to have, you know, any reviews or any social proof, then I'm going to be cautious about whether or not the thing I'm going to be getting is going to be legitimate, right? At the same time, I'm going to be cautious about the fact that when I put in my credit card details, as it's going to be trustable, right? So I'll be looking out for what does that payment portal look like? Is it something, you know, that I usually see like a, like a stripe or a shop paper or a Google Pay, or does it look, you know, fishy where I might get to be getting, you know, scam messages later on, and I'm going to have my, you know, credit card details leaked and that's going to be a whole issue. Or it's going to be even, you know, a product quality thing where I might be looking at a product and, you know, it might be something I want, but the pictures are not really, you know, super clear. And so I'm not really sure what I'm going to get is going to actually look that way because the pictures seem to be, you know, a little too AI. And so I can't really tell if what, what the product is going to look at, you know, reality. And oftentimes if you have, for example, image reviews, you know, someone who's actually received a product and put up an image review saying, Hey, this is what I actually got. Those can kind of counteract those, you know, suspicions or, or those sort of, um, confusions, but when those things are not present, then then I don't really know if this is something I want to proceed with. And then if I don't like it, or for example, if I'm on a, on a fashion website, right? So what if it doesn't fit, especially when it's new brands, you know, you're not really sure about the sizing or if it's a particular price point, you want to know, you know, am I going to be able to return it if, you know, if it doesn't fit, if I don't like it. So what is the return policy? How easy is it going to be for me to send it back? Again, if these, these, you know, sort of information and policies are not upfront and center and clear, then again, I'm going to be, you know, hesitant in terms of, you know, making that sort of purchase. And also the sort of experience, you know, like if I feel like the platform is incredibly buggy or, you know, the product seems fine and the pictures seem fine, but there's just, you know, it seems low quality, it seems incredibly slow and things are just, you know, too difficult to type, right? I remember there was a, there was a beverage brand, you know, that was super, super hyped up. And I thought, okay, I'll, you know, I'll check it out. And I went to, you know, buy it. And I got to the, to the cart. And when I was buying it from my phone, the on the cart page, while I was entering the details, the keyboard was so hard to navigate because they hadn't, I think they hadn't optimized it for, for mobile. So the tap size was really bad. And I tried with one field I got through, but the second field, it was the same thing again. And I had, they were forcing an account creation. And there were too many fields and, you know, all of the fields were optimized for desktop. And in the end, I was like, you know, what? It's not worth it. So it wasn't even that, you know, I was worried about losing my credit card details or anything. It was a legitimate, you know, product. It was incredibly well hyped. It was very viral. So I knew it was real, but it was just such a more experienced, you know, the fact that I made it all the way to the checkout. And then they were forcing me to make an account and not just make an account, but also really just forcing, like forcing me to, you know, really push in and fill multiple fields, which are not even optimized for a mobile. Then, you know, it becomes a really frustrating experience. And then I was like, no, not worth it. I'll just, you know, try it later, get it from elsewhere. It does not matter. So I think when these are the sort of things that, you know, make a customer go like, yeah, I want it, but I don't want it that bad. Okay. Thank you so much, Amar. So we have walked across 15 countries. What has that experience taught you about how differently people make decisions online across cultures? So there are certain patterns that I think are common. And I think there's certain patterns, you know, that, that of course, vary. And it has a lot to do with, of course, understanding each culture. I think some of the things that you need to take into account for each kind of country is, you know, their, their, which particular payment method, for example, that they prefer, you know, there are certain countries which just prefer, for example, cash on delivery. And in those countries, if you force a, you know, hard payment, you know, payment option on, on the checkout, then, then you're going to be losing customers, right? And we've, we've tried that in some of this ad Asian markets in its, it's, we've had a fairly poor result. And then, of course, similarly, if you, if you try to do the same thing in, in GCC countries where a lot of people, you know, aren't carrying cash. And you try to push them on cash, then, then you're going to see order losses here as well, right? Because it's, it's a very car driven economy. So I think it has a lot to do with, with people's, you know, preferences in terms of payment methods. It has a lot to do with people's preferences in terms of, you know, the sort of visual experiences they like. But at the same time, there are certain things that are fairly, you know, common as well. Which is, in terms of, you know, the attention span, for example, that's going to be the same, you know, for, for a user. You will, you will only have, you know, three seconds when they come onto your platform for between which they decide whether or not they actually like and they're going to scroll lower or they're going to bounce off, right? What that platform is going to look like, of course, is going to vary between, you know, Malaysia and between, you know, Sri Lanka and England Pakistan, because each of these countries is used to a slightly different visual experience, or these people like slightly different visual experiences. But, but those are, you know, more cosmetic nuances. The, the behavioral psychology is very much, you know, the same, the way that the user's eye moves, you know, in a certain F pattern is the same. What you need to realize, I think, as a company is that, yes, you have, you know, certain best practices and you really need to understand, you know, the psychology and the behavioral laws. But what you also need to do is, you really need to understand the user in the culture and their needs and their nuances and find, you know, the middle ground combination of the two to really create the best experience. I think often times, the thing that we fail to do, you know, when we enter new markets is that we, we think that one thing that has, you know, work in a similar enough market is just good enough to be applied elsewhere. Or one thing that's work in a region is, you know, is good enough to kind of like apply everywhere else. And, and I think that's where, where, you know, where we're wrong because, you know, all people are different people and we are not putting enough effort into understanding and customizing for those nuances. And that's the same reason I think a lot of, for example, you know, AI solutions today do great work when we talk about, you know, automating manual and repetitive tasks. But when you talk, but when you work on, you know, really working on, for example, creative in optimizing true, you know, expert tasks, it still falls short because it still requires very much someone who needs to understand the details who needs to understand the person who needs to understand the, you know, the, the person sitting on the other side. And what exactly it is that's important to them, you know, what their social, you know, profile is like what their wants are like, what their personality is like. And when we don't, you know, customize for that, when we don't humble ourselves, you know, to that, then we don't really create a customer-centric experience. Then we're just kind of creating a, you know, copy-paste, minimal, we, you know, custom, not even minimally customized, just minimally changed experience. And so we can say that it's personalized, but the only thing personalized is our algo for the sorting order, for the products and the categories. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Emma. I don't wonder for myself. You describe yourself as neurodivergent and let them, they are most looking back, looking back at your career, add your things about the way you work, or thoughts that makes more sense to you now. Oh yeah, definitely. I think a lot, a lot of it makes a lot more sense now, both during, both for my career, I think from, you know, my school life, all of it. I think once you have the, you know, vocab for it, and you can kind of really go into sort of the research and, you know, deep dive into it. It gives you a different sort of lens to look at it from. To be honest, I was always, you know, into psychology, and I think this is something that is true for a lot of people who do end up either, you know, being late diagnosed or simply going into late diagnosed and, you know, going into psychology careers, they pick up psychology as an interest in their, you know, childhood or teenage years. And it turns out it's, it's an attempt to kind of, you know, basically self-soothing, you know, sort of self-heal themselves, but it's more so just to kind of understand. And I think while I read that, you know, I found it fascinating, and I would read a lot about, you know, the brain and all of the different, you know, different, you know, neurodivergent strains that existed, the different, you know, disorders existed, all of the DSM-5 everything. And sometimes I felt, you know, I could relate, but obviously, you know, you don't really give yourself that sort of permission because it's not really official. And so you're very much in, you're very much in that sort of place where you go by what the people around you are saying. And so it's, it's your quirky, you're weird, and you're, you know, you're, you're operating in a way that you can't really explain to other people. And they can't really understand either. And, and so you feel like there is like some sort of like a broken wire. And, and I, I used to like say this, I, that I feel like I'm missing some sort of a manual that everybody got handed around. And I don't have it. And I'm, every time I interact with people, I feel like I'm trying to like put take down notes to kind of build my own to sort of figure out how exactly, you know, one, one makes it through. And I think afterwards, you know, it made a significant difference to me on a personal level because it just gave me, I think, a lot more in terms of tools. It gave me you know, more ability to be able to be more empathetic to myself. I wouldn't say to be honest that it made a difference to my career in the public sense because I was never, you know, vocal about it. I never felt comfortable being vocal about it because I think it's only very recently that people have started talking about this. And even now, I think that privilege is very much limited to, you know, certain places, certain sets of people. And I think, especially at the seniority I was, I would definitely felt like, you know, my career and the speed at which I would then be able to progress would definitely get impacted if, you know, this was something that was made aware to the people around me because as much as people, you know, workplaces like to say, you know, diversity, inclusion and all of that, it's not something that actually gets, you know, taken. It's not something that actually is integrated. And you can see that in the way that, you know, we don't actually have inclusive workplaces. Our workplaces are not built for newer divergent places. We, our work policies are not built for that. So, you know, I was very sure that, you know, this would only hamper my growth. So I very much, you know, continued the masking. But I think on a personal level, it allowed me to be a lot more empathetic with myself, a lot more, it allowed me to go out and seek, you know, better help, better tools, a better circle, you know, in my personal life of support, which made the entire experience, you know, a lot better. And for me, I think that's also what fueled the entire thing with, with precision is I wanted then it changed my perspective in terms of what I wanted for my career. I, I no longer wanted that, you know, the initial career ladder that I was going for. I, I wanted to move away and I wanted to, you know, set up my own company where the culture actually spoke to the values that we were claiming to have. And, you know, when we said that we had an action bias or we had ownership or we had integrity, then, or we talked about, you know, diversity and inclusion, then we truly talked about diversity and inclusion. And we, you know, when we talked about empathy, we talked about, you know, true empathy, which meant for everyone, right? And, and that's the sort of culture and workplace that, that I want to build, in not, not just a pretty sign that I can, you know, hang on, on the wall, or write on people's planners and stuff, but a living, breathing culture where people are not afraid, you know, to own to the fact that they are neurodivergent or whatever, but they're comfortable and they have the right tools and considerations in their workplace to be able to do their best work. All right, so Amara, if someone listening right now, if someone listening right now, a business owner listening right now believes their funnel is working because they are getting traffic and making some sales, what science should tell them that they are quietly losing revenue? What is the first thing they should investigate? They should definitely look at their heatmaps in their Google Analytics. I think heatmaps are a good way to kind of see how people are scrolling and more importantly, I think Google Analytics gives you a very good view in terms of, you know, page-to-page conversions or what are known as micro-conversions. So yes, you may be, you know, getting traffic and yes, you may be getting orders, but what percentage of those people are you losing along the way, right? So what percentage of people did you lose before they ever even added to cart? What percentage of people did you lose between the active cart and the checkout? I think those, you know, two big numbers are usually the biggest indicators that can help you understand, you know, where you stand, but don't look at them on their own and think, you know, that you're doing well or that you're doing poorly. This is another mistake that I think a lot of businesses do is they just compare to a general, you know, benchmark to just SaaS or just e-com. Be specific in compare with any or industry because what's a good conversion rate for a fashion brand is not a good conversion rate for a, you know, for an appliances company because they have very different customers, very different consideration life cycles. So fashion, you know, e-commerce site is supposed to have a higher conversion rate than a, you know, appliances conversion appliances brand. So when you are looking at these numbers, please make sure that you're also benchmarking it to the right thing and defining good and bad accordingly. And once you have that, then I think that gives you a good place to get started on where are the right places for improvement for you. Okay, so Amara, for those who would like to connect with you and learn more about what you do, how can they do that? You can access us, you can just come get us at our website at GoPrecision.co. We have our, you know, you can book our calls there. You can request a free mini audit there. And we also have a really big insights hub available there where there's a bunch of resources. So for anybody who's looking to just DIY and upskill themselves or fix their websites themselves, you know, please feel free to use the insights hub as well. All right, thank you so much, Amara. It's been a pleasure to have you here on the show. And to my audience, if this episode is begin to you, make sure you share to someone out there who needs to hear this. Love you guys so much. And I will see you guys on the next episode. Bye guys. Thank you, Amara. Thank you so much for having me. Have a wonderful day. You too.