- We didn't know a little bit. Do I need to? - I think this is good. - Yeah, yeah. - Hey, look at that. - Okay. - Guess we'll see how that sounded. - Okay. - Okay. (upbeat music) - Hi, Charlotte. - Good day, Madeline. - We're back with another episode of the sports gossip show presented by eBay Live. - Yay, yay, yay. - I like that one. Do you like that one? - That was a really good one. - We need to do a compilation of all of my little interests. - We need to do a compilation of your intros. We need to do a compilation of our tests. - Yes. - A lot of compilations. But I do it. Maybe it'll be a year-end review. - I was just gonna say maybe for a two-year anniversary. - Oh, it's coming up. September. - Yeah. - Crazy. - Time flies. - How is that real? - Having fun. - But it sure does. - We have a really unbelievable episode for you today. At least we think it's unbelievable. - And we have recorded it, yes. - No, we'll see. - But I think-- - No, it's gonna be great. - I think it is, we are getting into season three of America's Sweet Hearts Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, the Netflix show all about Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. - And if you have been with us for some time, we did an episode about this when it came out the second season. Well, the first and second season last year. - Yes. - And someone commented on it and was like, "Are you gonna do season three?" And then we watched it and we both had very strong reactions to this season. - Before we get into our main thing, I mean, this has been just like so much fun to research. - Oh, yes. - Week. - We spend a lot of time on JStore. Any JStore users out there. Which you can access at least through the New York Public Library, probably other public library systems in America, I hope. - Yeah. - So we pulled from real academic research on cheerleading, aesthetic labor, emotional labor, you found some research. - A lot of feminist theory in here. But don't worry, it's fun. - It's fun. - Which is so hilarious that we're about to get into this and the main thing we have to say is it's feminism. But don't worry, it's still fun. Don't tune out. - Don't tune out. - Yeah. We'll dance for you. But real quick, last season of America's Sweethearts was about how the cheerleaders had decided effectively to unionize. I mean, they didn't use those words. But they banded together and said basically like, we need to be paid more. And then it was sort of an ongoing thing throughout the season about the stress of negotiating or standing up for yourself and standing up to an organization like the Cowboys under owner Jerry Jones and his daughter Charlotte who runs the cheerleading program and ended with them being granted pay raises. Yes. So our take last year was like, oh, this was actually a little more hopeful. - Yeah. - Then we thought to see these women band together and use their collective bargaining power essentially. - Right. In this season felt like a swing in the opposite direction. Couldn't be more opposite, I think, than what happened the last season. Yeah. And if you think about it, the time that the season two was filmed in 2024 before the election, season two was filmed in 2025. - Yeah. - When the vibe shift was most pronounced, I would say. So keep that in mind as we go through this. - Yeah, 'cause I think a lot of what we'll get into while it has to do with cheerleading and the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders in particular, it says a lot about where we are as a society right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's bleak. It's bleak. - We won't sugarcoat it. - That's our face of statement. - However-- - However, the fact that the two of us can be sitting here in a sports podcast talking about all of this, maybe that's the hopeful part. Yeah, yeah. So we have a lot to get to. A lot of different themes and takeaways that we want to share with you. We'll obviously be getting into the show. So if you have not watched the show, spoilers ahead. - So just let us know. - But also, you don't have to watch it 'cause we'll explain to you what happened. - Yes. - So if you want to watch it and then listen, but if you want us to watch it for you so you don't have to, then you're in the right place. You're in the right place. - Well, before we get into our fabulous deep dive on DCC season three, we have our very fun fashion mailbag segment, presented by eBay Live. - Woo! - And we have the bag in question. - Wow, look at that. - I picked this out on eBay Live. It's a Chanel vintage caviar wallet. - I think I'm gonna put a little chain on it. - That's really beautiful. - Look at that. - Oh, look at the tiny little pocket. - Tiny little pocket. - Oh yes, there's a little pocket in the back. I should have put the question in there but I put it inside of the wallet. - Yeah. - So let me pull out the question. Oh, we'll do that. - Pretend it was in there. - It was. Okay. I actually wrote it down this time. - Wow. - So the question is if you could find any vintage sports championship t-shirt on eBay, what would it be and why? - Wow. - Great question, Chair. Hold on, thank you so much. - That is a great question. Maybe it's because I have World Cup on the mind. - Yeah. - But that 1999 women's World Cup. - If there is some merch. - Oh. - I might, I might pull it up. Charlotte's Googling. - eBay line, she's pulling it up. - 1999 women's World Cup shirt. Oh, wait. Wait, okay, I think I like that first. - Wait, oh. This is like an American flag. Oh my God. - Look at this one. It is like a, this is riveting audio, we know. But it's like a figure running across America and it looks like clip art. It's pretty cool. - It's unbelievable. I think mine would be, ooh. I think also thinking in the 90s, actually, if there were some vintage 96 Olympics t-shirt, 'cause I have a reproduction from Old Navy. - Would you go a lot of compliments on? - A lot of compliments on people think it's vintage, but I think I would like an actual original. I'm from Atlanta, iconic Olympics, think about those gymnasts. I think I would want some actual authentic 96, which isn't technically a championship, but that I think that is what I would go for. And if you look on eBay Live, there's some pretty, there's some pretty six stuff. - Oh, yeah. - I mean, this one is also, I mean, basically we could do a whole episode of us just, that one. - Ooh, yeah. - We could do a whole episode of us to, oh wait, this one. Of us just saying, looking at eBay and saying this one, because I'm gonna go, oh wow. Oh, that one's, yeah, see, that one's amazing. It's just purple. - You should just get this. - It's 40 bucks. - 40 bucks, okay, I might have to buy that. Atlanta 1996 Olympiad with like an impressionist painting and some, I almost called them thrones. What is that, torches? - Torches. That's pretty fabulous. - I know that eBay is sponsoring our show. - Yeah. - But I genuinely love eBay. - No, we love eBay. We're not kidding. That's one of my hobbies is looking for specific vintage things on eBay. So this is always a joy to do this segment. It really is always a joy. So thanks to our Mailbag sponsor, eBay Live, Camp Miss Live streams, heart pounding auctions, iconic fashion and collectibles, whatever you're into, you can bring it home right now. Don't miss another second at eBay.com/EbayLive. Hell yeah. Okay, Madeline, I think before we start this, I think we should head off, or as we start this, we should head off one main thing, which is that we are not coming for any, coming for attacking, dragging down any one particular woman who is a Dallas Cup was true. - No, no, we are not. We are here to analyze what happened on the show, what it means for society, what theoretical frameworks can we apply to what happens on the show, and how we interpret what happens to broaden it out to what's happening in the world at large. - And because a lot of the main antagonist of the season was social media, quote social media, and like quote trolls, they needed an antagonist, and that became that. And I think that given sort of the simplicity of this episode of the season, they would argue that people like us, are people who are just trying to drag them down. - Right. - And that is kind of the main thing we also want to dispel. - Yes. - So all of these women are very high achieving women who try out for the Dallas Cup with cheerleaders. They've all been at the top of their either college dance team or dance programs. - Some are even have had professional experience. - Yes. And it seems like there are the bottom line in terms of the power that the Dallas Cowboys organization holds over these women is that there are very few prominent opportunities to be a professional dancer. - Yes. - This is one of few. It's either this, you could be a professional ballerina or a professional modern dance dancer, but again, those jobs are few and far between. I guess you could be a dancer for musical artists. - Yeah. - But again, probably few and far between. So there are not that many opportunities and there should be more opportunities for dancers professionally and they should be paid accordingly and should not be paid minimum wage or low wages. - Or as a part-time job, correct. - Yeah, and so part of what's going on here is the people in charge have a ton of power and the people who wanna be doing this job basically have very little agency, even after they sort of manage to get a little bit more money, which is not addressed in this season whatsoever. So Madeline, you did a bunch of, can you talk to me about the history of cheerleading itself? - Yes, I would love to. So one of the academic articles I read was from Laura Grinstaff and Emily West. It came out in 2006, so it is a little bit outdated in that sense, and it's about cheerleading and the gendered politics of sport. - Okay. - And they got into what-
cheerleading was. So cheerleading, as they said, cheerleading was once an all-male activity, it was, quote, invented in the late 1800s. And as they said, it was invented to, quote, increase spectator involvement in collegiate football. But then over time, it was, quote, gradually feminized throughout the 19th century and has been female dominated since the 1950s. Okay. And as they argue, female involvement really did change the nature of cheerleading. It's crazy that it started out as men because cheerleading is perhaps one of the most feminine things that our culture has. Oh, yeah. I mean, unless you're the men lifting the women up, but like totally. Yeah. And I think it was that article they did talk about, like, co-ed cheerleading and what these male cheerleaders go through, which we're not going to talk about in the show, but that is a whole part of the discussion. But as they said, and I agree with this, they said, quote, female involvement changed the nature of cheerleading, shifting emphasis away from character building and leadership to notions of physical attractiveness and sex appeal, which led to a white middle class bias in the selection of female cheerleaders and the aftermath of desegregation and the trivialization and devaluation of cheerleading overall. Wow. So basically, they're saying as it became more of a thing that women do, it mattered less or was seen as sillier. Right. Huh. Yeah. Rarely you see that in society. Interesting. And cheerleading exists to support a term that is called hegemonic masculinity, which you and I have talked about. For those who don't know what that is, I'm going to read a real definition. This is from the University of Denver, because I think it says a lot about cheerleading and the sport as a whole and also the show. But that hegemonic masculinity is the most socially prized way to perform masculinity that is upheld by a patriarchal society that rests not only in power over women, but also power over other forms of masculinity. Hegemonic masculinity prizes a form of masculinity that prizes, prioritizes traits such as emotional suppression, aggression, competitiveness, and power. And as Grinsteff and Wes argue in sports, hegemonic masculinity exists to kind of support cheerleading and cheerleading is said to quote embody the qualities associated with emphasized femininity, notably supportiveness, enthusiasm, and sexual attractiveness. So it's like on the football field, cheerleaders are meant to support and almost contrast the hegemonic masculinity performed on the field by these male athletes who are like agro men. It's like looks not athlete-maxing. But that the two kind of wouldn't exist without the other, but that they both fall under a patriarchal structure and one doesn't exist without the other and they both don't exist without the patriarchy. See, that's so fascinating because it really is like here are the two genders. Remember those tweets that were going on like these are the two genders? It's like at the extreme of what is we know a spectrum of gender is the football players and then it's the cheerleader. Yeah. And I think that it is so fascinating in the cowboy in the America sweethearts. It opens where Kelly is the head of the cheerleading department, yeah, program head head. She's the head haunted. She runs it. She's the boss. And Judy is a choreographer, the head choreographer. And Kelly and Judy, the way that the women on the cheerleading squad also Kelly and Judy always refer to them as the girls. These are all women over 18. They both revere them, love them, fear them, but they don't challenge them. And a main storyline in the show is this woman Klein who's in her fifth year with the cheerleaders and is budding heads with Kelly a little bit, but Kelly says it's about her timing. And what she means by that is that Klein will occasionally complain about something. Yeah. It's like Klein dares even test Kelly a little bit or have a little bit of like crossing the line. Yeah. And Kelly's like, well, she's, she's difficult. She's difficult, but it's interesting because if you compare it to the last season, when so there was more pushback from these veteran cheerleaders and they got a pay raise that I feel like the how Kelly and Judy handled that was very different than this season. It felt like Kelly was using more language about Klein being difficult. And you know, she speaks her mind more, you know, she's out. She's a fire. I think, I don't know if she, did she call her a firecracker? Was that another cheerleader? She called Savannah a firecracker? Maybe that's Savannah, who was arguably the most, the least challenging she any fell in line. Yeah. No, it's true. It's just interesting. And then, but Kelly does say the season that Klein reminds her a lot of herself. So it's interesting. It's like, is it was Kelly? We don't really know how Kelly was as a cheerleader. Was she trying to push back back then when she was we don't know? We don't know. Because she was a cheerleader. She was a Dallas Cow was cheerleader, so is Judy. And so the reason I bring that up is because it opens with Kelly and Judy having a live show, a live tour of the get Dallas Cow was cheerleaders. And that to me was the, because we're not talking, we're not saying that like, I don't know if we're saying cheerleading shouldn't exist. What we are saying is that women should be able to dance or cheerleaders or whatever the art form is on their own terms separate from being the contrast to the male sport. Right. Like the act of doing it, they're incredible dancers. And when they do that on their own, when people fill theaters to see them, it's like, okay, now we're talking. Yeah. But that is only a byproduct of the show becoming so successful. Right. And it's limited. Their main job is still to perform at football games. Yes. And it's just it's so fascinating when when you see at the end of the season, Kelly says the Cowboys as a football team, if you don't know, they suck. They have been terrible for they haven't won a Super Bowl in 30 years. They've made the playoffs a handful of times. And Kelly says I'm she's really sorry that their tenure is ending the way it did because the Cowboys just missed the playoffs. And then the season was over in December, rather than the cheerleaders being able to go on and cheer in the playoffs, maybe even get to a Super Bowl. And everybody's crying. And it was because obviously, you know, they're sad that their time there is over for the fifth years who are who are done because you can only do this a certain amount of time because it's punishing on your body. Yeah. But it was so if that if nothing exemplified the like hegemonic masculinity of the whole thing, where the men still are in control in a patriarchal society, then saying, I'm sorry that the men let you down by being bad at their jobs when you were very good at your job, so that you can't keep doing your job, but it's not up to you. You have no these women have no control whether they can cheer beyond December or not. No, and we'll get into the slider, but it is just interesting. I think one of the biggest themes for me was the idea of power and control and who has the power and control because these women as we'll get into have built these brands for themselves and have a lot more agency than Cowboys cheerleaders in the past before the show existed, but then to your point, they are still simultaneously held to the patriarchal society of the Dallas Cowboys organization. And the fact that it's still their reliant on the football schedule and these men and they're still being told what to look like, what to wear, which we're about to get into, but that it's these two things are existing at the same time while they are gaining more agency and power themselves and building their own capital. They're also still, they still like have to fall in line with the organization and the rules of the organization because they are reliant on it for their job. Yeah, they can't, they're Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. Yeah. If the Dallas Cowboys aren't in the playoffs, they can't go like cheer for the 49ers. Right. No, even though you could argue in a, in a just society, right, be the best cheerleaders cheer off against each other and then the best one gets to cheer for the Super Bowl. But that's not how it works because they're connected to these, I was about to say f*** guys, but they are, they are, they are. So you mentioned beauty standards. Yes, this whole show is about thin white beauty, really. Yes, at least how it's presented to us, under this show. I'd like to start off again with a little academic quote as a little, a little palette, palette cleanser for you for this section. It's from Latanya, Reese Miles. She wrote American Beauty the cheerleaders in American literature and popular culture. And as she says in America, in contemporary American popular culture, the female cheerleader icon is fraught with contradictory social meanings. On the one hand, she symbolizes purity, innocence, and youthfulness. On the other hand, represents sexuality and temptation. A cheerleader epitomizes both success and female achievement, but also as Beckerman, another author believes she symbolizes vanity and mindfulness in almost all instances. She represents idealized white femininity. So these cheerleaders represent these two things. You're like sexy, but cute. What is it? The sexy cute? What is that from the movie? I don't know. I know what you're talking about, but you're representing you're like sexy and mysterious, but you're also just like an innocent little baby. You're just a little, you know, with what? Big eyes. And you can see that in how they present themselves as part of their job. Yes, I think that the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, the way they present themselves is basically the idealized post feminist expression.
of being a woman on the internet in 2026. - Yes. - Because the things that led up to us getting here, what that quote so brilliantly says is like, you have to be sexy, but you can't be sexual. Like you have to be sexy, but you also have to be virginal. - Yep. - You have to be hot, but you can't look trashy. You know, the line that these cheerleaders have to walk becomes so unbelievably thin that it almost disappears. It's kind of impossible to be the kind of, quote, correct woman the way that the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders are, which is why they're constantly having these breakdowns and constantly feeling like they're not enough and clearly so many of them have issues with body image. And, you know, they talk about, you know, we're making each other eat now. - Yeah, but there was a quote that was so fascinating to me for Reese, who's the sort of breakout star of the show whose spoiler alert ends up leaving at the end of this season, which is very interesting and will dissect more. But she was on a podcast after the show came out and she was like, you know, I was a chubby kid, which no one told me because I didn't want to burst my bubble. And I was like, well, first with that is a lot to impact. - Yeah. - And she says, but I never want little Reese. I want her to look up to me now and see that you can be curvier. You can do this job. Meanwhile, Reese is a very, very, very thin, very thin, if she is curvy, then, I mean, it's a mind-blowing thing to say that she represents like any sort of bigger woman in any way. - Well, it just shows what's wrong with the entire system. It reminds me a lot when I was modeling. I was a teen model and I weighed 125 pounds at six feet tall, which I don't weigh 125 pounds. - I'll see more. - Just so you know, that's too thin. That's too thin. It's an unhealthy size. And at a certain point, I just got older and they told me I was plus size. Because I, and in some ways as a recent kind of reminded me of that of like, she's like, well, I don't fit into the norm. And I'm like, you literally are thin. It was like me. I'm like, I feel like I'm being guess lit what you were. Yeah, like I'm right. There's nothing wrong with being quote plus size. It shouldn't even be called that. It's just like a different body type. Like it doesn't mean anything. And it was just interesting how much power and control the Kelly and Judy, but Kelly in particular seems to have. But I would say the whole organization, it's like she's getting these requirements for what these women should look like clearly from someone. - Yeah. - Some directive somewhere. And in the modeling industry, it's the same. There are, you know, 32, 24, 34. Those are the measurements you have. And that's like the directive from the fashion industry. And if you don't fit into those, well, sorry, your plus size. And it's just interesting as we get into talking about the beauty standards, I said this to you. But I feel like as we have discussed the swing in the opposite direction this season, feels also like a swing in beauty standards that we're seeing in popular culture. And that we had a moment where it was like, oh, body positivity, air quotes. Oh, let's put a woman who got forbid is a size six. - Yeah. - The horror in like an ad campaign. And then now if you look at advertisements, it is swung back to all white, all rail fin, pre-pubescent looking bodies. And it feels like the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders also swung, it just feels like even further in that direction. I don't know, maybe that's not true from last season, but it just feels like they were, maybe they just put more of an emphasis on those beauty standards this season. - I think that they were, maybe they either didn't show those conversations last season. Or they've become socially acceptable again. I don't think there's ever been a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader who isn't very, very, very thin, but maybe Kelly knew better in 2024 than to talk about it quite as overtly as we are shown in 2025 where she says things like she's in nice proportions. Or like when she sees the girls in their tops, which are just very booby, she says, oh, she's lean in the top. And it's like, oh, so she's a small boot. It's still regardless of how talented you are as a dancer, you have to look a very, very, very certain way. And you were telling me about the modeling contract that had certain measurements. - Yes, yeah, when I worked in Japan, I don't know if this is still the common in the norm, but it was then that my measurements were down to the centimeter. And they could break my contract if I gained one centimeter in any measurement above what was listed in my contract. Mind you, I was 15, I mean, they weighed us every day. And I mean, listen, yes, there's been a lot of change in the fashion industry, but I have heard from other models like it is still pretty much the same. I'm not saying that every contract at an agency in New York does that, I don't think. I hope not, but I know that there is still that undercurrent of you need to look a certain way, even if they're not explicitly saying it 'cause they're worried that they're gonna get tweeted about or something like that, but it's still there. And something that I also thought was interesting was the uniforms, which we've talked about, that they are the most exposed uniforms, like, I'm over you good, where would you want? Doesn't matter, but they are the tiniest top and the tiniest shorts. There is no room to have any quote unquote extra weight on you or else you stand out in that group. And to me, I feel like they use those uniforms as a way to gauge how successful you are as a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader. Well, sorry, no, because they have to wear the same uniform the whole time. And it's almost like in the fashion world, the sample size. If you don't fit in the sample, the literal sample of clothing, you're probably not gonna be as successful of a model 'cause they're like, well, she can't fit into that. It's the same with the cheerleaders. It's like, well, if they don't fit into their uniform the next year, it's like, mm, something's going on here. Yeah, and it's almost like while maybe for legal reasons or just optics reasons, as far as we know, they can't put measurements in a contract, the uniform, since you can only get one. And if you gain weight, you can't get another one. That becomes the contract, right? Where if your physical body doesn't fit in those tiny ass shorts, then you violated your contract. Yeah. And Jenna, this woman who's trying out for the second time, she got cut and training camp talks about how after getting cut, she went through this massive depression, had self-worth just plummeted. She had a severe eating disorder at the time of the training camp from the 2024 season where she was cut and she says, she ends up making the team in 2025. And she's definitely says that she's healthier and she says, thank God, I didn't make the team. Because if I had, I was at such an unhealthy size and you only get one uniform. So I would have had to fit into that for five years. Just greatly crazy. Which is cruel. I'm sorry, that is cruel. And I also think that the physical stuff that they have to do in terms of the jump splits, we land literally in a split, which causes multiple women to have had to have hip surgery before the age of 25. There is almost a punishing aspect of this that I think the women they attract are women who are very type A, very high achieving. And as a woman who is high achieving in this society, you are constantly not enough. You are constantly, I think in, these girls are so young, and they have been in such patriarchal systems of dance, like you were talking about with modeling, where they're all these issues, they feel constantly like they're not enough. And you hear them talk all, like I don't know if I deserve this, the wrestling with whether they should be there. And that's kind of a tool that you see Kelly and Judy use, whether they know it or not, to hold that over them and be like, well, you gotta fit. Yeah, the standard, which brings us to the, quote, makeover day. Yeah, which to me feels like a humiliation ritual. Well, can you tell people what makeover day? So makeover day, they go to a salon, they have a head. Before, sorry, before everyone's made the team. Yeah, they haven't made the team. They haven't made the team. They are doing this to see how they would look if they did make this. So Kelly is in charge of what they look like. It's the hairstylist they interviewed who I'm sorry, I'm forgetting his name. But he, he's said in the interview that he gets a little bit more control over what they look like, but Kelly kind of gets the ultimate, say. And they come in, sit in a chair, and are told we're gonna change your hair. Here's how we're gonna change it. And they use this weird language word. They almost aren't, they're implying, but also kind of explicitly saying that the women have some agency over the decision, but they really don't have any agency over the decision. So for example, there was one girl Savannah who didn't make the team and she had blonde hair and they made it strawberry blonde, which Kelly wasn't really into, which it was interesting that the hairstylist kind of had power over. And then when they did it, it didn't look great. No, and Kelly's on camera saying it looks like a wig and saying that her hair was the reason she didn't dance well. Right, and then she gets cut. And then she gets cut. So they made a decision that then influences whether her performance that she didn't choose. Exactly. So a big part of the job is what the hair looks like, but also the makeup. And this season, I don't know if they had the sponsor last season, but Charlotte Tilbury, the makeup artist slash makeup brand, is a sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. And Charlotte herself makes an appearance. It felt like an episode of America's next top model. Like having a celebrity appearance. I was like, oh my god, Casey Musgraves was a celebrity judge during the auditions. And here's Charlotte Tilbury, one of the leading makeup artists in the world, making an appearance of what was interesting. She had some quotes that I wrote down. At one point, she said flawless is a feeling talking about the makeover scene. And she's like, well, sure. Well, no, just the idea that to be flawless is the goal. Yes, and that you want to feel flawless? That's the goal. And then she also said the DCC have always understood the power of makeup.
- Yeah, which, listen, I agree. The power of makeup and hair to be a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader is a key job duty. - Yes, you have to always be polished. You have to look the way that they want you to look. And if you look out of line just one degree for eyeliner looks a little bit off, then Kelly and Judy probably aren't gonna be happy with your performance as a DCC, because what you're doing is you are performing the kind of femininity that has to exist in order for the football players to be big and strong. - Right, as we talked about. - Yeah, and one of the key ways that they use beauty is through, as they call it, herography, where you have to be able to swing your hair a certain way. And I found it very interesting. Parker is the only, Parker and Jenna were the only two women of color that they really gave any air time too. In any somewhat meaningful way, still not nearly as much. This was the whitest, blondest season we have had yet. I would have loved for them to follow. There were several cheerleaders who were black who were in their, more, like the later years of their career as a DCC. One was a first group leader, follow her. What's her experience like? But they're not going to, because I almost felt, like maybe the season after last season, they got pushed back from the Dallas Cowboys organization. Where they were like, "Hey, we can't be the bad guy. We are giving you access to our people." And you made us the antagonist of like, these women fighting for equal pay. And that's why I think they made social media and the quote outside voices from like anonymous people, the antagonist, because if you look too hard at it, the whole thing starts falling apart. But that's where, so they talked to this woman, Parker, at the makeover. And she's like, my hair is unbelievably important to me as it is to many black women. And they're like, okay, well, we're just going to give you some highlights anyway. Yeah, which she's sort of like, okay. Like her face, you can tell me, listen, we don't know how she felt internally, but at least reading her body language as we do often on the show, didn't seem like she was super into it. - I mean, she looked, she looked, it's the feel any, I feel like any woman you go in to get a haircut, maybe any person. And if you start feeling like something's out of your control or they're doing something to you that you don't want, it's this like panic, because that is how you are perceived. - Yeah. - And then, and you see it in Savannah too. And I've been reading this book called Girl On Girl by Sophie Gilbert, who's a, she's great writer about how the '90s and 2000s have shaped where we are today and basically like how the media and our popular culture turned to generation of women on themselves, which I think personally, as someone who came of age in the 2000s and the 2010s, I have maybe since 2016 been doing all of this work to undo that and to not hate myself in the way society told me to hate myself and to, and I feel like I've actually made amazing progress. Like doing this, I think maybe even last year, doing an episode about how actually the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders is a really messed up thing. I don't even know if I would have, I don't know how you feel about this, had the courage to literally be on a mic saying, I don't think this is helping with it. - Yeah, because you're taught, well, no, but it's a choice. And like, that's what, we'll get into some of that, but the writer Naomi Wolf, before she became a not so conspiracy theorist in the 1990s, she wrote a book and basically was saying, as Sophie Gilbert writes, the power of what women really want is so forceful, so potentially iconoclastic that the only way to control it is to distract us with self-loathing and the lifelong project of discipline self-maintenance. - Yeah. To me, it feels like the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders in some ways are a patient zero for where we are as a society with beauty standards. I mean, the frozen faces, which was a very jarring thing, I think to see this season even more than last season. - Much more. - And the contrast with one of their stars Reese, who again, leaves at the end of the season, who doesn't seem to have gotten a lot of work done to her face, she's still movement in her face, was really almost hard to watch. - I agree. - Because it just felt like you're like, oh, this is where we are as a society, these young women are just injecting their faces with Botox and filler and who knows what else and getting these makeovers, they all look like the same person, which you see beyond the Cowboys cheerleaders, you see it on Instagram, you see discussions about, quote, preventative Botox, which is just marketing on TikTok. Like, it just feels like it's like a representation of beauty standards at least in America, but it feels like globally and especially with social media. - I completely agree. I think the fact that you have 22-year-olds, Kelly and Charlie, who were featured highland season two, they weren't featured that much in season three, but they make appearances, they have both completely frozen their foreheads. Kelly is talking and you can read absolutely zero emotion in her face. And she's 22, she doesn't have wrinkles, she doesn't need Botox, I'm sorry, Botox at that point only exists to prevent you from expressing yourself. And they've done studies that actually women who start getting Botox very young have emotionally delayed, don't develop certain empathy because you can't, because moving your face is a part of communication. - Right. - And this is where I do wanna talk about something called choice feminism. A woman named Linda Hirschman coined this in 2006 and she said choice feminism is the shadowy remnant of the original movement, tells women that their choices, everyone's choices, the incredibly constrained choices they made are good choices. And that I think is where you see in the comments of a lot of these posts about injectables or plastic surgery or whatever on social media, people saying leave women alone, she did what she needed to do to feel empowered, which completely takes away any idea that maybe these quote choices are still being influenced by the outside culture, by the patriarchy, by the misogyny that's so rampant. And I think that what is this woman, Michelle Ferguson, wrote about choice feminism is that it is motivated by a fear of politics. Understood as an orientation, choice feminism has three important features. She goes on to say first, understood as the freedom as the capacity to make individual choices. And oppression is the inability to choose and that as long as women can say they've chosen something, it's considered by choice feminist to be an expression of her liberation. Second, the criteria for evaluating women's freedom is individual choice. Then we have to abstain from judging the choices women make. So it's really insidious because it's saying, well, but you chose that in a vacuum individually by yourself. So how could I as another woman critique you? And basically that she says this view of freedom is supported by a particular historical narrative. It is the woman's movement in the past that has made it possible for women to make free choices in the present. Any collective action, any thought that, hey, maybe what you are saying is quote, good for you as an individual actually could be hurting the collective. But because the collective has already worked hard enough to let you make choices as an individual, you owe the collective nothing. Yeah. Well, I want to do this because I want to do it. It's like, why are you doing this? Why are you doing it? Yeah. And Reese is perhaps the most effective cheerleader because of how she connects to people with her face while she's dancing. Yeah, which I think leads us into our next segment, talking about the mirage of empowerment. Because these women, again, part of their job description, as we already have discussed aesthetically, where which is how they look. We've talked about that before on the show. You can look up Ashley Mears' work on it. But it's basically that part of your job is your physical appearance. That a key requirement is looking a certain way. But another piece of it is emotional labor, which we have talked about a lot. And there was some work from Sikhani Robinson. It was about black ballerinas. It was about the management of emotional and aesthetic labor. But I'll just read a quote as a little jumping off point. Occupations such as modeling, athletics, and ballet are useful service occupations to examine because of the way that bodies are very explicitly commodified. These occupations also allow a nuanced examination of how aesthetic labor needs to include both the embodied self, body self, which includes both the physical and emotional aspects of maintaining specific appearances for particular jobs. And I think for these women is a good example of it that part of their job, especially on the field, or at their appearances, or these shows they're doing, is connecting with cowboy's fans through their eyes and through expressions in their faces. And as they get more injected with stuff in their face, I think it's going to hurt their ability to perform emotional labor as part of their job because they're not able to emote the feeling of like, you want me, and I want you to feel excited that the team just scored a touchdown. Or I'm seducing you in some ways with my eyes or whatever the case may be, but you can't do that. But that's still a crucial part of their job is holding the audience or the fans of the cowboys in the palm of their hand and saying, I'm going to wrap you around my finger while I do the thunder dance and look at someone in the crowd. And part of it is because they can't speak. They're shown on a jumbo-tron. Yes, they are. And Kelly and Judy are constantly talking about well, she's great stadium presence or she reads bigger than she is. And part of that is the hair. But as these women freeze their faces as a part of whatever this beauty standard is, it does take away from that ability. and I think to part
of this mirage of empowerment is saying, they constantly talk about, well, it's a sisterhood. Well, it's a, well, you know, I've this Savannah who tries out the woman that Kelly calls a firecracker and turns strawberry blonde and then cuts her because she doesn't like her hair. She said that this has been her dreams since she was five years old. It's having a meltdown because she's like, who am I now? If I'm cut from this team, I saw that this year she does come back and try out again. Maybe she makes it, but I was just thinking like these are, these are such elite athletes and and obviously like the thunder dance, which Judy choreographed, which as I said before, involves like punishing athletic, it basically being a Dallas Cow was sheer leader is like playing football in that you know the damage it's going to do to your body and you're choosing to do it anyway because it's worth it to have that glory when you're young over whatever it brings down the line. And so when you see the thunder dance, it is an unbelievable athletic feat. We are not sitting here saying we don't like watching it. And it requires, it requires an unbelievable level of skill and athleticism and training to be able to do what they do. It's just the way the entire package is presented and the context in which it is happening that makes it feel you're like what are we doing as a society. If they were doing this as, you know, first of all, I would say the jump split, you got to get rid of that no matter what. But if that were its own performance. Right. And maybe there was some level of self awareness about the performance of femininity in those outfits that speak to something greater. It starts to feel less like, but as it is now, it's just for the male gaze. Yes. And you and I were talking before when we were planning this episode about how the whole point is that it can't look difficult. It can't look difficult. And they say that on the show. Yes. And as part of their job managing emotional labor, it's like managing the emotional labor of themselves. They can't win. When they do that split, they need to maintain the sexy but cute facial expressions throughout their entire performance and throughout the entire time they're performing on the field, which is the full football game, full football game. I think you rarely, I think there are a lot of sit down to get some water, but it doesn't. They can't sit. They can only get water during a play. Yeah. Otherwise, they're all standing. So the amount of emotional labor that they have to do for their job to make it look quote easy when it is not easy is hard to even quantify. And I think that is just really wild. Another quote from Grinstaff and Emily West was just talking about basically the supportive and performative dimensions of cheerleading that they're both very closely related. As they said quote appearing before a crowd requires that cheerleaders be enthusiastic, energetic, and entertaining. This is accomplished not just through dancing, tumbling, or eye catching stunts, but also through the bubbly peppy performance of quote spirit in cheerleading, what they call informal cheerleading. And they define informal cheerleading as quote what participants do to express enthusiasm and quote rally the crowd whether on the sidelines or obviously it's in a competition setting. And so the the amount of work required by these women, it's like we are supporting these men. We are supporting hegemonic masculinity. We are supporting our role as like the sideline cheerleaders for these men. And yes, of course, they you know, they argue they have choice in doing this, of course. Like it requires a lifetime of perfection to be able to make the DCC one of the most coveted jobs in dance, but also you're still supporting a system that ultimately isn't there to serve you. It's there to serve the male gaze and there to serve the men who have the power. Yeah. And if it if it were there to serve you, I don't think to serve the women who do it, they would not be the pain that this show inadvertently or purposely shows them going through. That was the most difficult thing to watch. I think for me is a 37-year-old woman who was once 22. Watching and I'm not saying that these women who are choosing to do this don't have agency, but again, I think that comes back to this sort of myth of choice feminism. I think in a lot of ways the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making women believe their making choices for themselves. And that is where you can be coerced. That is where you see the pain like Reese has a high ankle sprain and is doing everything she can to get back out there. Carly has a hip tear that is so bad, but but Kelly and Judy call her into their office and they say your kicks aren't as high as they should be. Yeah. And she's like, well, that's because I'm going to need surgery. And they say, well, I think is there anything else you can do? And I was like, I was yelling at my television. I was like, this is abuse. I'm sorry, I don't care if that's too strong a word. The things that they're being put through in the name of, well, you want this. And this is empowering. And it's a sisterhood. And a lot of these interviews like Megan in her sit-down interview, who's a fifth year cheerleader, who is a group leader, who's sort of like an assistant coach, even there's nothing behind her eyes. And and I'm not saying that as a criticism of her again, we are not leveling all of this back at these women. We are leveling this at the system that has made them think they have to do this. I find it heartbreaking. Yeah. There was a quote I said to Charlotte and it's from a man named Gabor Mate who has some controversial views on things, but he's a physician and author. So take it with a grain of salt, but it's you can be a or get an autoimmune disease as a woman. And I think there's a lot of truth in that that these women feel an obligation to say yes because they don't want to fall out of line because they'll probably be cut or punished in some way. And so they are willing to quite literally put their bodies on the line, not saying they're going to get autoimmune disease, but they're getting surgeries on their hips. They're getting injured. Reese is injuring her ankle, hip replacement, hip replacement in their 25. What are we doing that in by instead of having some sort of boundaries with your job, you are willing to give it 150% because you feel like that's the expectation and that seems to be the expectation from the organization. You can't give less than 150% or you will be punished or not welcomed back the next season and they'll frame it as oh, she doesn't really seem like a team player. Right. She doesn't seem like a team player. And it's almost like when they when they use their collective power last year to get these pay raises, that was it. Yeah. And yes, I really do feel like there was some, I don't know, if anyone worked on the show, if anyone wants to slide into our DMs and let us know what's going on, the Cowboys organization came through the season so unscathed, whether, you know, they did show a lot of things that we're talking about now, which whether they intended to or not made everybody look pretty bad. But there was no overt challenging of the system because again, as we said in the beginning, if you challenge the system, the whole thing falls apart. And I think that these a lot of these women are being sold this lie of individualism over the collective about what can you do? What do you look like to keep them from demanding too much? And it works because any one individual can be cut even as they are all very close. Well, and it feels like one of the themes which I think we can get into now, but about social media, but I do feel like that they feel like they're doing something for the greater good, but also feel impact. They say they feel empowered not only by like being a cheerleader and choosing to that, but also by the brands they've been able to create for themselves through influencing on social media. And that is the whole point of the show, the season. The show in season three is a show about a show. Yeah. The show is like a human centipede. It's like a self, it's like a, a escher print of a product. Yes, it's literally this season is about last season. And what last season did to these women for both quote, good and bad? And I think this show also what it maybe again inadvertently showed is that Netflix now chooses the stars. Whoever Netflix chooses to follow, we went back and looked at all of the social following on Instagram of the TikTok of these women. Whoever Netflix features heavily has about 200 to 300,000 more followers than any of the cheerleaders they don't feature prominently. So Netflix is now, along with Kelly and Judy, saying, you know what, Charlie, you're going to have enough followers that you can have a deal with Gatorade, but Ava, you're going to be stuck at 40k. And I don't think Gatorade's going to be as into that. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. It's crazy. It the show has now almost become a show about who they're choosing to make the show about. Yes. That's what it feels like. And if that's not individualism over the collective. Right. Well, and I think, too, it speaks a lot. This isn't about social media, but it speaks a lot about as we talk about on the show, the sports documentary industrial complex and how all of these shows are meant to give you behind the scenes access to some element of the sports world. We've talked about the Aaron Rogers documentary. I watched the raw file in the dog one, which I actually think was a little bit different, but that's different episode that these documentaries are meant to serve the subject in some way. They're not really meant to give an objective analysis on what's happening. And I think DCC this season in particular really felt
like the epitome of where we are at as a culture with how we talk about sports through these almost propaganda pieces for a sports organization. - Totally. - Because then as we were talking, it's like, well, why are they doing this? As Netflix trying to like do some show with the Cowboys like in the future, who knows? - Well, because as we talked about when we did our, we did a deep dive on the Cowboys quote documentary that's on Netflix. And we hypothesized, well, maybe they were using America's sweetheart as a way to get in with the Jones family and get permission to say, see, we don't show you in too bad of a light. Like you should trust us to do this other documentary, quote documentary, these are just reality shows. But I think what we started thinking about was like, wait a second. Netflix this season made social media. I mean, they made these women read mean comments about themselves even when women are like, well, this is why they start crying and then they're like, this is why I don't read the comments. But they're in a set interview situation where you know that a producer showed them the comments. This woman annicates as she started hating herself because of what people online were saying. Meanwhile, and people have had like severe mental health issues because of the things that they're newfound fame has the spotlight that that's put on them, which Netflix, which the show, which is now a show about a show, fails to mention it has played any part in, right? It's like, wow, look at these mean people on the internet instead of saying, wow, look how we expose these women who were not public figures before and now they are. What role do we play in that? They don't examine any of that at all. They don't say, hey, maybe the cowboys set them up for this. They say, it's that man in his basement who needs to get a life, right? It felt like they were trying, they were overly emphasizing the role of social media and I'm not saying that they are not trolls who say horrific things about these women and then there are not people who feel like they have parasocial relationships with these women because they know them from the show. I'm not saying that that is not happening. However, it felt like Netflix was trying to make a point that that was the point of this season when it really was not the point at all. No, I'm not saying that didn't play a role, but I'm like, I feel like this couldn't be further from the truth of what the big takeaways here are and you're clearly trying to move us in another direction and be like, well, here audience, think about social media, not all the beauty standards and all the white people who continue to get the main starring roles on this show and the makeovers and all of this other, oh, just ignore it. Don't look at any of that, don't look at it. But you know what you should look at? Gary and his basement who probably still lives with his mom who's saying that you were out of formation. - Right. - And they put so much, oh, God, don't be crazy how they would show all of these people on social media who are like taking pictures of like, well, you were out of line here, you were out of line here. Yes, that's awful. To be nitpicked that way, it's gotta feel horrible. Do you know why they're nitpicking you that way? Because Kelly and Judy nitpicked you that way and they watched the show where the whole point is perfection and now they're seeing they're not being given the products that they were promised by Netflix and by the Cowboys organization. And so they're gonna say something about it because how on earth would they not have the right to when the whole show is about all the ways that these women are not perfect and need to be? And then eventually when they reach some semblance of perfection, Kelly and Judy smile, and they're like, we're really proud of them. You know what's interesting? We haven't talked about this yet, but I think we should. Is the risk of it all? Because they don't show risk that much this season. She ends up leaving. And I think to myself what were the Netflix executives thinking when they found out that she was leaving the show? Because she really is, she uses her. She has a million followers. I think she has the most of any DCC current cheerleader or alum of the program. And it felt like her edit was trying to make points that I don't know if they really stuck because the real reality is you could tell and Reese's face that she was really burnt out and drained by it. And also she has a million other opportunities now beyond DCC organization that she got by being a prominent star last season on the show. But she's not really featured. And it felt like almost by if they had featured her storyline more, it would have exposed some of the cracks in the facade of the narrative they were trying to show the audience. I couldn't agree more. Because I think too, a lot of emphasis is put on Reese. She is 22, 23. She's married. And she got married. And then two months later, the first season of the show came out and she says it completely changed. Turn her husband, Will's life. Will is portrayed this season. In the past season, he's portrayed as very supportive, doing everything to help her making her meals. But this season, he's shown as saying, well, we haven't had the same newlywed experience that our friends have and they're having babies. And but Reese's had this whole big career. But then, which makes you think, okay, what's going on there? But then there are moments where he'll say to her, she's deciding whether to retire or not. Also, while all of this is going on, she has hip tears, she is a high ankle sprain. But he'll say, I'm really not trying to influence your decision. And you get a glimpse of like, wait a second, this is a reality show. This is being edited. What are we not being shown? And they ended up, Reese retired, moves back to Alabama. I'm not saying that maybe he didn't play a role. But what we end up finding out is Reese's retiring because she's getting bigger opportunities even than the Dallas Cowboys show. Because when she retires, she says, you know, I've had some other opportunities. I'm going to pursue them. It since turns out she, you know, she was like, I maybe want to go to Broadway. I'm, she's now writing a book. And Kelly and Judy, when Reese turns in her uniform and says, I'm retiring, Kelly says, well, at least she's grateful and acknowledges that we made her, essentially. Yeah. So you're like, oh, Reese got, Reese got bigger than they are. Reese has more power. Reese, she's very Christian. She's always saying, I'm here to serve the good Lord. Sure. I'm here to, to, you know, I didn't want all this. She also says, I have big dreams. Yeah. She's a very ambitious woman, very ambitious, very ambitious. And I think it was interesting because that, to me, expose what the show has become. Netflix actually has the most power now. I would argue. Because Netflix chose to highlight Reese more last season. If Reese, if this show didn't exist, and Reese was a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader, not saying she wouldn't have a fair amount of followers, but she'd probably have closer to the 40,000 of the women who are not featured heavily on the show. And I would argue now, then maybe Kelly and Judy are realizing is like, oh, Netflix actually has the most power here. And whoever they're featuring, they may not come back because they're making way more money not doing the show and they're not having to get their hip replaced. So they're probably not going to stick around that long. So now all of a sudden, you watch Kelly and Judy doing the math in their heads and they're like, hold on a second. So we need you to be big so that our program is big. But if you get bigger than our program, we become smaller and you leave. It's like they're stuck in this. So I think part of it is their fear. Like they are also, while they also talk about like, how important it is to be a good wife to these girls. Like, Klein, when she retired, she's like, I'm on a cruise. It's the first trip that Luke and I've gotten to take as a married couple. And Kelly's like, well, I'm glad you've time to be a wife. And I mean, while the whole time Kelly and Judy work more than anybody, they are essentially in, quote, more traditionally male patriarchal roles in being in charge of something. They say that the sacrifices they don't see their families that much, that they love what they do. And I don't doubt them. Like we're going hard at the whole system here and the role they play in it. I do believe they have been accepted to believe they're helping in some way. - Yeah. And Kelly does address the role of social media on these NIL deals. She even talks about, she compares the cheerleaders and the brand deals they're getting to, how college athletes are getting NIL deals. So it's not like she's not aware of it. But then at one point, I think it was right that same episode of Marie says she's leaving. Kelly talks about how the cheerleaders need to do multiple things. I need to be able to do media appearances, be role models and protectors of the Cowboys brand. But now that facade is kind of cracking and unraveling because Netflix has more power now. They're making these women more famous than the Cowboys brand could ever be quite frankly. And there was a point in one of those final episodes where Kelly gets mad at faith, the Australian, or she's from New Zealand, but lived in Australia most of her life. She already had a following before she did the show and was recruited on social media, by the way. She already had a following by the Cowboys to be a Cowboys release. So they knew what they were signing up for. She joins the organization, they give her a ponytail. That's also could unpack that. That was some like groundbreaking move by the Cowboys. God forbid her hair's up. What you said, you said when we were trying, you were like, well, the ponytail's diversity now. Yeah, that's diversity. I'm like, oh my God, ah! Like she has a ponytail. And listen, she looks good with ponytail. Also looks good with her hair down. So it didn't make a difference to me. But Kelly gets mad that faith did, I guess, a bunch of interviews with Australian media and Kelly's essentially like, you can't do that. And faith is like, well, my management got signed off from the Cowboys, which who knows what true, but I would imagine her management was probably correct and did get signed off. But Kelly clearly is like, oh, I'm losing control. I don't have as much power now. My cheerleaders are public figures and are being asked to be interviewed about what it's like to be a Cowboys cheerleader and who knows what else they're asking them about. And she feels like she doesn't have control over that. And they're all playing the game still. Because they still, faith still needs the Cowboys. She's not reach level yet. And so faith immediately says, oh, that's my, she says first, my management checked with you. And Kelly says, no, they didn't. Which who knows if that's who I am. Faith immediately starts apologizing. Says, I'm so sorry, you know, if that's on me, you know, they start grovelling. Which to me is this.
sign of maybe not the healthiest organization when you rule by fear in such a way that all of these girls at any time they're nitpicked they apologize they say yes ma'am sorry ma'am. And I think that to your point about Netflix holding all the power in the book girl and girl by Sophie Gilbert she talks about the reality shows of the 2000s do you remember the swan oh yeah which was a this it made me it honestly made me feel sick to my stomach reading they would take women who I think maybe sometimes but let's be honest it was mostly women who were unhappy with certain aspects of their appearance or were seen as quote ugly ducklings who then become the swan they undergo they are taken away from their families all mirrors are removed and they undergo as many as 10 cosmetic procedures yeah over the course of months at the very end they're given a mirror they don't recognize themselves their kids don't recognize them at the very end of all of that they are then lined up against each other and one winner is chosen and there's the biggest loser who can lose the most weight the guy who won the first season was peeing blood which meant kidney problems because he had starved himself to lose 122 pounds or 30% 7% of his body weight and it occurred to me as I'm watching this show especially like the makeover I was like oh the Dallas Cup was truly to show is actually kind of a combination of the swan and the biggest loser and all those really messed up reality shows from the 2000s packaged as female empowerment and as a choice so that if we're sitting here saying maybe this isn't good we are the bad women or the bad women because we choose is we feel empowered by doing and it's like maybe we should look into that Alex Kaczynski wrote a 2006 book called Beauty Junkies where she wrote cosmetic work is the embodiment of that American dream the success story of getting eyeballs on oneself of self transformation and it's I feel very sad it's just sad I feel very sad watching this because I think about these women and you know they say so much in this show I feel empowered by doing this time and time again and it's like you feel empowered by doing this because it's been normalized by society that this is how you're supposed to look and operate in this role that's that's the problem it's like yeah you might feel you might genuinely believe that I believe that you feel empowered by it but at what cost and why do you feel empowered by it you probably don't even know where that empowerment came from and it came from a system a patriarchal society that reinforces that yeah you're doing a great job that's what you're supposed to look like hell yeah brother yeah rock on yep and like we're just going to conveniently ignore that there are women of color on this team who might have had different experiences right except you know we will talk to Jenna because Kelly said she looks quote exotic yeah Kelly said and I think that everything is cyclical right and with the rise of tradwives with the backlash against like the girl boss who trust me was problematic yeah with lean in with it's like after feminism there's there's there's such a brilliant marketing by the patriarchy of feminism as angry women who can't have any fun who want to tell you don't fall in love who want to tell you you don't need men and it's like well you can the feminism was marketed as the shrill woman who can't take a joke and that has traveled so far that now it laid the groundwork for you know what you should be the ideal version of a woman as a man would imagine her because she can take a joke she's fun she's not difficult and there's this video from the the turning point conference which is what Charlie Kirk founded which his wife who his widow or I don't know Erica Kirk now runs and it was the first time she had run the big conference they do and they're they were interviewing women who were the same age as these Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders who went and they were saying like well feminism just means like they don't want you to have choices they don't want you to get married they don't want you know they want you to just work and they say they don't want men and it's putting the other sex down and Erica Kirk said and they had another speaker who said just like the wild most wildly sexist things I've ever heard but these women in the audience were like I still think that I could work and have a family they were choosing not to hear what was being said while internalizing it and kind of hating themselves but still thinking saying feminism is bad but like a choice doesn't sound tear and it's like that's feminism yeah right to me this season just as we said just represents where we are as a society but also represents the ideals of traditional American family values more than any other season and I think to myself if this is what season three represents what could they possibly do for season four because at a certain point you're either just repeating it's going to be like this same season again or they're going to go back to season two which I don't think they're going to do or they're going to like rip the bandit off and it's going to be here's a real peak behind the curtain which they're certainly not going to do so then I just think to myself I'm like what is the purpose of this show anymore who is it surveying other than I guess the cowboys and the women who are prominently featured because they get more followers and then turn get more brand deals and more money I don't know I had the exact same reaction I was like well where do you go from here yeah because you either do make because because they're going to need a new antagonist next season right you're running out of antagonist what is it going to be the the trolls online again yeah it's not going to be the Jones family it's not going to be Netflix itself no not going to be Kelly and Judy yeah and you know you watch these people and like I'm sure Kelly and Judy are like a lot of fun I'm sure these women do actually love them yeah but you can't ignore the role that all these people are playing yeah and I think that it dovetails so perfectly with where we are in in where we were in 2025 because I'm hopeful maybe there are starting to be some rumblings of coming out of this I'm seeing more people on social media starting to question hey is just making a choice as a woman actually feminism right you know I think that maybe there are some rumblings here the fact again that we're even doing this right now feels like okay well we feel we feel bold enough to come out and be like what's going on here yeah and I think that this is the backlash to the Obama presidency the backlash to progress with women's rights the the backlash to the the rise of trumpism and mega and all of this created an environment where it was okay for Netflix to put out a documentary that really is just bowing down at the altar of white thin femininity that serves male power yeah and maybe we'll come to a point where that's not the case again maybe we can still get there I I like to believe it I like to think that if we've been able to undo some of the things that we're in our heads is 22 year olds maybe there's hope as Jessica Valente writes a newsletter about abortion news was like where all the 47 year old tradwives because I because you're divorced most of them aren't and then the comments of that real we're just all these women being like hello former tradwife didn't end up so well I had an awakening so I don't know I think that it says where we are and it is it is a product of fascism that you see when authoritarianism comes back is that this kind of womanhood is once again the most prized thing mm-hmm but I don't know yeah and I think that the power these power that these women feel ultimately just comes from the patriarchy and men in charge ultimately that's really where it comes from and and they feel like it's their own choices but it's really not and I said to try like oh maybe in some way reseaving was kind of radical even though she obviously seems very conservative but I'm like maybe that that was kind of a wake up for the we're going to like oh my what are we doing here if our star cheerleader couldn't do this anymore and she was like I'm done like what are we doing here maybe who knows but I also don't know it's gonna be a wake up call for no I know and I also think it's just still so fascinating that Reese who had the most expression left in her face was the one who became the most famous and maybe becoming all the same as everybody else actually doesn't serve you as an individual as you think it does whoa so again I think what we want to say too is we are not devaluing any of the work that these women have put in it's a lifetime of it's a lifetime of work they're unbelievable performers I think it's it sucks that we have a government that doesn't put funding into the arts where they could have jobs and have careers and be famous on their own terms none of this is to say or belittle what they're doing it is just to say if we're going to have equal rights I think there needs to be some reckoning of what are we not going to put up with when it's physically and mentally hurting the women who are claiming to be choosing it right and if we're going to have a show that is supposedly giving you a behind the scenes look at what it's really like to be a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader you need to think critically about what you're seeing about what they are choosing to show us what they're not choosing to show us and be able to ask real questions to yourself but also to the people at the Cowboys organization and Netflix who made this show it's like why are they showing us this yep yep because something's going on there
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