Amanda Knox | Club Random with Bill Maher

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That's a really good question, but I clearly doesn't haunt you. Hi, Amanda. Hey, how are you? So nice to meet you. Wow, you came around. Yeah, I was admiring all of your amazing art that I heard gets like turned around like you're an archivist of art in history. I'm fucking yes, I am. You better think it. No, it's what you jump up. Some of the guests we've had here. They just sit. They really can't get up. Why? Because they're fucking old. Oh, you know, I'm just well, they just, you know, this chair, you kind of sink back. I have an extra pillow underneath to like be on par with you. You are always on par with me. I have to tell you, the people you know who I recommend you. It's like a, a mad jive of Whitney, right? Whitney. Do you see her in the bathroom? I did. I cozyed up with her. It sheep that, that doll is like of my nightmares. But also it's this person that I love who's been so supportive of me. And Nikki Glazer. Nikki Glazer. Sam Harris. Sam Harris. I mean, you're recommended by like some of my favorite people. Oh, well, they have been so, yes, that's for you. Oh, that's my, my newest book. I always forget. We're plugins. No, actually, I wasn't. It's a show for God's sake. It's professional, just for your professional show business. You're kind of a librarian of stuff. So here's just one more thing to add to your library. Oh, when did this come out? This came out in 2025. Right. So, but there was never a book before this. Yes. So this, right, this isn't, you must be tired as fuck of talking about. We don't have to talk about the book. No, no, I mean, look, this show, as you can see already has no professionalism or a gender or we might, we might not. Yeah, okay. I mean, it's, you know, I was told you can really take a joke. Yeah, please. So I'll tell you when I walk in to do makeup, my producers are there. And I'm always like working on my other show and, you know, I said, I don't know anything except she killed a guy in Italy because I said, that is the story. But, you know, it's only funny because we know it's not true. And that's, but, yeah, you got the Mark Twain award. I mean, the president tried to stop at once and who knows, you know, it's like an execution date. Right. Well, let's not talk about it. No, I want to know. I want to be a professional, a man. I'm a professional. Well, okay, but I'm actually really excited for you. Like, I'm excited for you. You went through more than I did. I mean, I only had to get past Trump. You had to get out of Italy. I mean, how many, how many were in your prison? So it's a relatively small, it's a woman's prison. So women's prison, private women's prison. Yeah. It was like Sarah Lawrence, Sarah Lawrence of prisons. No, it was, it was anywhere between, so when it was not very full, it was 30 women. And when it was quite full, it was like 90 women. You made friends for life. I made friends with one person I'm still in contact with. Is she out of prison? She is out of prison. She got out before me, actually. And when I, when she got out, she sent me a letter every single day after she got out and I was still in prison because she was really worried about it. It must be so boring. Must be the worst part is that it says nothing. You know what? It, it makes you feel like you're gnawing yourself from the inside out. Like it's, it's, it's, if you do not have training for how, one of the things that that actually attracted me to meditation was the ability to like be at peace with just your mind. Like I fucking struggled with that in prison that like I, I need, like my crutch was reading books. I read hundreds of books. But if I found myself, so they give you a book. I was a lot of books. Yeah. And, and I devoured them multiple languages. Like I was just like, whatever they had or whatever they fucking had. So you couldn't order a book. It wasn't like Amazon. No, no, no, no, no, no. Could you request a book and get that book? No, it was more like, I would tell my family that I wanted a book. And then they would send you a book. Yes, they could send me books with a file in it. Is that, did you ever have to bribe the screws with cigarettes? My, my, my, my, my, my. Cigarettes are currency in prison. So yes, it is a currency. And one way to solicit favors from others is through cigarettes. Yes. That is a fact. Did you ever think of, of escaping? I had fantasies of like the CIA coming in with a helicopter and pulling me out. No, but you're doing it. Me? No. Yeah. Like Andy and, and Shawshank. No. No. No, I didn't. No digging. I, uh, well, look, like, now we're getting in like, okay. So, uh, it was just not an option. Um, there was, so I, my cell was on a second story. Um, I was surrounded by bars. It was highly, um, I was constantly supervised. Like there just wasn't an option. I'm kidding. Yeah. No, but like, thank you. We've seen so many prison movies. Yeah. And it's like, there's the cliches. The cliches, like, somehow getting out. Like, well, all of them, it's just, it's just funny. I mean, it's not funny. It's, uh, it can be funny. It's, it's an, it's an ongoing scandal to me that they just, in this country, uh, consign themselves to prisons are going to be these jungles. Like, does it really have to be that way? And there is an answer from other parts of the world. They do dip prison differently. Now, other parts of the world aren't a bunch of fucking drugged out nuts like this country. Okay. This country is different for better and worse. Most of the people I was in prison with were drugged out nuts. Yeah. This country has a lot of energy and a lot of it is directed in the wrong direction. But okay, that's who we are. So I get it. It's hard to, to prison, to put in prison Americans or whoever is here in America doing dirty shit. But the fact that it's just a place that makes somebody who went in and who maybe isn't a hardened criminal, oh, they're going to come out a hardened criminal because it's just this, this Hobzean tooth and nail and it's yeah, and the everyone's in on it. It's like really you, no one can figure this out. All the things we can figure out, we can't stop rape in prison. You know, just there's no possible way we can think that this doesn't have to be this kind of night. And I guess it comes down to the humans. You're always going to have the humans who are in the prison and they are put together with a lot of people who are the drugs of society. So those drugs are going to make the guards feel anxious and scared and wanting revenge and then it's and then it's just this terrible cycle of I hate you when you hate me and who this is who it's the fucking worst of the worst of it's the worst impulses of society all there right there. And I agree. I mean, what's so interesting about like just prison, I mean, I know you like history, right? Like prison was initially intended to be a more humanistic and and understanding approach to punishment because it used to be corporeal, it used to be execution. Like that was the only way we punished it wrong. Crucifixion, exile, like all of the things that were basically the equivalent of maiming and death. That was the only way we punished people for wrongdoing. And then they introduced this idea of prison where like you could serve you could serve time as penitence. And in the process you could be be indoctrinated by those who are concerned about your soul to become better and rehabilitated. That's the whole idea of prison is. If you give someone just enough time away from society, they're not a danger to others, and we might be able to turn you into somebody who could potentially come out and be a part of society. But then somewhere along the way, it reverted back into this idea of like, okay, well, it's a little bit like the corporeal punishment, like we just need to hurt you, and we're not going to hurt you by cutting off your hand or hanging you anymore. We're just going to hurt you by stealing your life from you, and that is fucking painful. But we're not going to give you anything to like process that or cope with that or establish yours like, and to be fair, like I'm not like a fucking bleeding heart about this. Like I know that some people are so broken, like I've met them. I've fucking lived with them. People who are so broken that I would not trust them in a free society where we get to just like go about our business and be around other people without, you know, without safe cards. Right. Yeah. No. But I don't like sense. But like I do, I do have this like, I do have like a deep aversion to the punitive instinct of it. Like I do think it is really important to take people out of society who have proven to be untrustworthy, like to be, to have proven to be people who are likely to inflict harm on others to like not have self-control to not play by the rules that we all agree to. I'm 100% on board with that. I do think though that like people have this like romantic notion about what prison is and what it does and what impact it has on people and the kind of people that we send. You think they're romantic notion? Yeah. Oh, 100%. People have fun. Yes. People have this like this fantasy idea that like only bad people go there and all the good people stay outside and that it fixes you or if it's not fixed you, at least you deserve to suffer for what like all of that. I don't think they think it fixes you. But I do think you're right. They are able to shut off their mind to it by saying, well, that's where bad people are who did bad things. So they got what's common to them, which is true in a X percent of the people there. It is not 100%. But we are humans. So that's, you know, every solution to every problem is this is the least bad option. But we should have told you this. It's a surprise. We wanted this to be a reunion show. Here are some of the guards that you have. Hey. Remember. Remember. Oh, yeah. Okay. And some of the girls bring them out here. The girls you're in prison with. Let's just. I'm more of you. Any. No. I was okay in prison, dude. I was okay. Do you, are you one of those people, you know, like, well, I would say spiritual, maybe they would use that word where they think everything happens for a reason and everything led you to another place for a reason or, you know, that kind of thinking? Well, I'm actually one of the rare, wrongly convicted, exonerated people who is not of that ilk. In fact, a lot of people that I met in prison, guilty and innocent, like, really do feel like there must be some sort of bigger, higher power that's more in charge of them. Right. And. You can understand why people go there. Oh, 100%. You're absolutely helpless. And you've got to hope that somebody's in charge or else you're fucked. Why? Life's a rough ride. And, you know, you can get so rough you have to hang on. I think you just have to believe that it's for a reason or for something better future that you can't exactly put your finger on. You can make a reason. I believe that. I think that the universe doesn't have any inherent meaning whatsoever, but you can make a reason. You can make it make sense to you. And you can have the things that happen to you become propulsive in your own life. And so I have attempted to do that. I think there's wisdom in that. But am I assuming that somebody else is in charge or somebody has a plan? - Well, if anything, I've learned that. - Right. - It's like extremely unlikely. - Honestly, I see why you've run my friends like you, because I feel the exact same way. And it's not really a popular opinion. - No, it's not. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's funnily enough, like, it, it's, well, it's, like, the very idea that there's, like, no rhyme or reason to the universe is threatening, it's, like, the deeply existential problem that goes, I think, beyond even mortality. Did they tell you what my drink is? - No, I try not. - The last word I like to have. - What, what is that mean? - It's a prohibition drink. Do you want some? - What is it? - It's green chartreuse and gin and, no, not a gin man. - No, my father was. - Yeah. - Was he mean to you? - No, no, no. - No, no, he needed it to de-stress and just being Irish. - Oh, okay, fair, yeah, it's, I say that, like, the only people who are drunk. - Who drink, genius. - But, I mean, as far as drinking goes and nationalities, I mean, they're in the top two and it ain't two. - Right. - You know, maybe the Russians, they drink like crazy. - Never been to Russia, been to Ireland and, yeah, that track. - What's your heritage? - Mine. My mom was born in Germany and my dad-- - Born in Germany. - Yeah, mm-hmm. And my dad is a mystery because he was adopted. - Yeah. - Some kind of-- - Right. - That just adds to the plot because the Germans and the Italians have a, you know-- - A different sensibility, yeah. - Well, a different history with each other. - Yes. I don't think that they were looking at me as a German, though. They were looking at me as an American. And American girls, unbeknownst to me, had a certain reputation. - What do you think about, you know, Gen Z and how turned against the country they are? - Here in the US? - Yeah, how much they, I think, many of them on the left, far left, which is usually what you, you know, that age is. But it's part of it is just very anti-American, just really seeing only one side to who the country is, of course, we shouldn't whitewash any crimes we committed, but they just don't have it in perspective. You don't see that? - Well, I have kids that are under five, so that's-- - Well, I don't ask them. - So I don't get a lot of that in my own home, and I also, you know-- - Yeah, but I don't get any of it. I don't have any kids. - Well, okay. Here's your problem, Bill. - Well, you are more tuned in to current events and everything that's going on, and like, you have opinions, and that's your problem, Bill. - Why? - You have opinions about current events. - What is problem to-- - Problem to-- - Well, I'm just, like, look, I don't-- I haven't actually super followed what is happening with whatever generation in the most vocal right now, because-- - It's so interesting now. I mean, even if it wasn't like, it is important politically and for the country and blah, blah, blah. I just find age fascinating, like the different ages and how you-- I mean, what are you? How-- - I'm-- - Yeah, yes. Do the thing that you're never supposed to do with moment. - Eight. - Eight. - Eighteen. - Thanks for giving me alcohol, then, Bill. That is illegal. - That's what 18 is illegal. - Well, to give-- for you to give me alcohol-- - Oh, no, probably not. - I mean, with alcohol in your private dink-- - Ratskeller. - I don't know. I'm not good. - Is that the word you're looking for, a ratskeller? 'Cause it's the word that applies, and that-- there's a rat now. - I mean, I think when I think of people who are 20 now, the thing that I just think about is where they are emotionally, and maybe this is just the mom and me. And I'm always like, where's everybody at emotionally? Like I think that a lot of people project whatever they-- project their emotions onto their intellectual pursuits. - Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. - So-- - It's all that. So much of it is-- I know that you think that this is a super important issue, but really it's about you. The issue is there for you. You're not there for the issue. You're not really doing anything for the issue. A lot of people don't understand the issue. They're swept up in the issue, because we are social creatures, because we do have deep empathy, because we want to feel like what we do matters. And ultimately, we all have something deep down inside of us that is unresolved. And I feel like we project that, again, that like deep that deep feeling into whatever is socially accessible and that's what's accessible to them. So I'm looking at that from an emotional place, I think. And like, but again, that's because I'm a mom and I'm like trying to raise my kids to be-- - Are you a choosing mom? - One of the strangest things in business is how much effort goes into getting a customer and how little effort it takes to lose one. A missed call, an unanswered text, a voicemail nobody checked. That's it, they're gone, not because they were angry because they were busy. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo spelled Q-U-O. Every call, text, voicemail and customer interaction lives in one place. No more, let me transfer you. No more, I think Susan was handling that. And Quo's AI agent works after hours too. It can answer questions, handle incoming calls and even book appointments while your team is asleep, add dinner or pretending not to look at work messages for five minutes. It also integrates with tools like HubSpot, Clawed and more, so information flows automatically. Setup takes minutes, you keep your existing number and it grows with your business. That's Quo, Q-U-O. Money's on the line here, always say hello with Quo. That's Q-U-O.com/random. My choozy mom? What does that mean? I mean choozy moms, choozy jiff. You never heard that? Well, I've heard of gentle moms. I've heard of Tiger Mom. No, this was a commercial. Oh, no, I don't know what that is. I'm saying 18, Bill. I don't know any of your cultural references. Well, that's a key one. Trust me, everything that we ever broadcast goes out into space. When the aliens see that, they'll know we're-- They'll really understand that. They'll know we're really good people. OK, good show. Choozy moms choose jiff. I mean, they just, they care what peanut butter. I see. With this horrible fungus laden slop to their children. Right. And then they think people think that, so I'm probably going to get sued by the peanut butter industry, but I don't think peanuts are healthy. I just let my kids eat off the floor. So my kids are a little feral. And I think that that's a good thing. I think being a little exposed. That's always the word I use about children. But I mean it in a bad way. I've heard that you're not-- I saw the trampoline in the backyard. And I was like, oh, how sweet. And he was like, no, that's for me. That's for me. Of course, kids, what? Why do you hate kids? I'm actually so curious. Why not? I mean, I know that Anthony Gelsnick has great jokes about. Do you have great jokes about it? Yeah. OK, give me your one of your, like, I hate children jokes. Well, they're in my specials. You can look them up. OK, I'm going to do my aunt here. Club random. But it's just my personality. Like, your personality is to like them. I like furry creatures. I like animals. You like furries? That's your thing. Furries, not exactly furries. But like, yeah, I like-- I think that was a cultural reference. Oh, I know that one. OK, wasn't sure. I know. Just because I ain't laughing. No, I hear it. I hear it. I hear it. I hear it. OK, but-- I love animals. And some people love kids. And some people get great joy out of, you know, the kid learning something for the first time. The sky is blue and-- Totally. And I'm so over that. Yeah, you're like, figure it out. Well, I'm interested in going forward into, actually. I feel like with the kid. And yes, there is something to be said for, you know, seeing the world through much more innocent eyes. Are you interested in the human mind and how it works? Very, sure. There is nothing more fucking interesting than watching human mind develop from bush. Yeah, I get that. I'm sure that's a-- Yeah, well, I'm not particular aspect of it, especially when it comes with snot and drooling and shit. And just, you know-- You are going to go back to snot and drooling and shit. Not too long. I don't know. Oh, wow. No, I mean-- We went there, huh? Well, I mean, we're all mortal. Our bodies are our bodies. Do you not have your own snot and drool and shit today? No, I'm not at that level of senescence. Have you ever wiped someone's ass? No. No one's ass, but your own. No, yeah, my own, definitely my own. Exclusively, I would say, since, too. I wonder what that has done to you. I think it's an important thing to wipe someone else's ass, to, like, really-- Like, it is a deeply intimate thing to do for another person. It still doesn't make me want to do it. Are you diverse to gross things? Yes. OK. I get that. I mean, especially shit. Yeah. Who like shit? Well-- Yeah, I mean, shit is not-- I mean, instinctually, we are averse. There are a lot of people in this world where home shit is less offensive to them than it is to me. This is going really well. You're so happy you invited me. Well, I mean, we could talk about anything. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I get where you're coming from. It wasn't like I don't know about this stuff. I'm just trying to, like, analyze, like where the line is of what counts as gross versus not gross. I mean, it's a case by case. Isn't it for everybody? Doesn't some things give you the egg and some down? Yeah, no, that's fair. Why? You're not going to-- I'm not going to yuck your yum or yum your yuck. So-- OK, whatever that is. But what-- Have you not heard that? Yuck your yum? I got to get my context. I may have heard it. My kids say it all the time. The little ones. I mean, I thought we were past it into the like, what's analyzed where you were fucking-- I'm not fucked up about this. Or-- and you're not fucked up about liking kids. It's just like different opinions. That's true. You know what's like saying, hey, you're going to stupid ask your Muslim, you think that's going. I'm like, Catholic, I know who's God. You got your God, I got mine. And I got none. And I think you got none, right? I have none. You're in-- you're at your age, yes. Is all that little group is-- well, we know Sam is. Whitney, I don't know what she is. Sometimes people are-- I just don't ask. It hasn't really come out. So this you're going to, and this kind of death for you, don't ask if they believe in God. I guess I-- I poop is real and God isn't. So I'm not really curious about God. Well, I'm curious about who. God may not be real, but how humans act because they think he is very relevant. That is very real. Yes, but that is the human mind that I've been in. Yeah, but I mean, what has been as controlling in history, really, when you think about it, than that? But again, for me, that's just an intellectual projection of something emotional at its core. So what is the emotion, fear, that is driving that impulse to make sense of the universe in this way or another, and to control other people through this means or another? And I think that control is a big-- Yeah, I'm concerned about the control part. And I think, did you see Taylor Tomlinson's new special prodigal daughter? It's really-- I'm actually curious to see what you would think, because she talks about religion and her upbringing and religion and her relationship to it today and how she has respect for people who are religious as long as it's not like being weaponized against other people. However, you decide to make sense of the universe is up to you as long as it doesn't cause you to harm anybody. And I thought that that was very sweet. I thought that was a very important sentiment. And I think I agree with her in the sense that I'm also very close friends with deeply, deeply religious people, and they do not hurt other people based upon their beliefs. And so that's great. On the other hand, faith in something that is not real is like a condition of the mind that conditions you to think a certain way and to have a certain kind of magical thinking. And then if you go down that rabbit hole, it's like, well, how many things do I have faith in that I don't fully comprehend? And then so, I don't know if there's a way to win that. Do you have any thoughts about magical thinking? Oh, over the years I put out a few. OK. I haven't watched all your specials, Bill. I'm 18. I made a movie called Religious. Religious? Yeah. I haven't seen that. Yeah. But did it come out? 2008. I was in prison. Yeah, it still plays a lot, like people-- I just feel like I missed a thing. Yeah, that's fine. OK. I mean, I do-- have, you know, just think, I would think mainstream atheist thing, which is we're not trying to convert anybody, just leave me alone. I just don't want to participate in this and so don't worry about me. But would you be stoked if an atheist were president? I think it'd be possibly different, possibly beverty. Had one because we don't know. Well, should put it out. I don't feel like Obama was, when he put on the, I get scriptures on my phone. You know, I don't feel his heart wasn't in it. He seems like the kind of guy, very cerebral, who I mean, probably I think is an atheist or, you know, a closeted atheist. Well, they have these words like secular humanist, it'll like code like, okay, people, I don't believe in the fucking talking snake, okay. I don't, and you call it what you want. But it's hard because so many people are people of faith as we were saying. It's a threatening thing when you're not part of it. You're kind of like Serpico with God because like Serpico, he just didn't want to take the money. You know, he was like, I see the cops, you're dirty. I just don't want to, and it was just like they could not, they could not let a guy not take the money because then you're just, then you're implicating everyone else. Yeah. Well, just morally you are, but not even saying anything, just they just know, oh, there's one guy who actually does know right and wrong. And who needs a guy like that hanging around? They make us feel bad about ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, get on board. Yeah. But where, so where you live, you live in Seattle? Yeah. I live out in Seattle while I grew up there. My entire family is there. So it was my husband's, but also it's one of the best places in the world. I live on a tiny little island called Vashon. That's you have to get there by a ferry. So I get the benefit of living in this kind of small town vibes, but next to a vibrant, you know, city landscape that has arts and culture. And one of the things I love about Vashon is I get to have a lot of intergenerational friendships. Like I'm not just friends with just people my age. Like I have best friends who are in their 70s. And I, and one really cool thing about the island is there are a lot of like musicians and artists who live there and they're very supportive. So it's like, it's a great. I always thought Seattle was cool. Of all the places, all the cities, all the cities and all the gen joints, and all the world, that was always one of my favorite stops. You know, Seattle was close. You know, you could just hop on the plane, be there in a two and a half hours. And it was like, it's a big city. You know, but people don't realize Seattle. You know, it's like, wow, it's just New York, not quite, but like a lot of it's not New York. No, but like the like big tall buildings for like, you know, for, yeah, it looks like a big city. Yes. And there's some big. Yeah. There's big companies that are all up in our business there. So I didn't know if I could stand the weather all year round at six. I can't stand the weather here all year round. Oh, yeah, I feel like a naked mole rat like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what do you know? It was out there and said the exact same thing. I like it when it's gray. But that, you know, that isn't like scientifically healthy. We are solar creatures. We do need sun. But don't we need seasons? We have them. Do you? Yeah. I've lived here for 40 years. I think I would know. Okay. I guess when I come down here, it always feels like exactly the same just with like four or less smog. No. We have clean air in Seattle. Clean air. Clean air in Seattle, dude. It's a big city. I'm sure there's some air pollution. I mean, we have rain and that cleans the air. Yeah. No, I'm it's I'm no not arguing you have cleaner air. We've we will fight. Yeah, we've cleaned up our air pretty good here. But compared to what it used to be, I remember when I first came out here, the joke was ring around the city because you could see this brown ring. I mean, yeah, it was gross. Even when you flew in, you could it was it was it was scary. Your skin looks great for being in all of the sun and smog. Thank you. By the way, you can avoid the sun. Okay. You can stay inside. You can actually in the modern world like decide exactly how much sun you get. Unless you are picking crops or you know, have to be, you know, I always say this movie stars, the guys that they like tend to like like look look their age at a certain point because when you're a movie star, you're out in the sun a lot. Movies start early. They need. They need the life, you know, and if it's a western or anything that's you're just out there a long time. And then, you know, whereas I was stupid when I was young with sun sometimes because I wanted to be I was an Irish kid who wanted to look Italian. And it was never going to happen. No. And what it was so stupid is that nobody wanted it to happen. It doesn't you look good as what you are. As you are. And whatever you are like that. Look, it was just the kind of thing where you go, oh my god. If I only could have replaced that stupid thing that was in there. Yeah. With what I know now. Do you have compassion for your younger self though? Oh, I mean, that's an interesting way to phrase it. Compassion for your own self. I'm hard on myself always. Have you ever talked to Sam about meta meditation or anything like that? I know everything I tell you doesn't mean it a doctor or do you think my shit? I know. I know it, but it's ridiculous. I don't want it. I don't need to fix this. It's probably made me what I am today. I'm very happy. Okay. Great. You know, so like, do I beat myself over that good? People should beat themselves up more about what they do when it's a fuck up. It makes you better. Yeah. I don't think people should feel the feelings of feeling bad when something happens. It's obsessing about it that I wouldn't be a happy person and that's not the case. But some of that, I'd rather err on the side of a friend of mine once said, I like to never make the same mistake once. That's sweet. That's hard to do. And already missed out on that. Yeah. And some things, you know, you don't even get it the second time. Eventually, you're like, okay. Can I ask what your biggest mistake was because I feel like everybody knows my mistakes, but I don't know yours. Oh, wow. Now we're on like Barbara Walters. That's a good, it's a really good question, but you know what? I probably, did I ever think of that? It clearly doesn't haunt you. No. I mean, everything sort of came out pretty good. It would just be in general that just the thing, like I just said, like, I don't know, it's just a small thousand cuts thing of all the stupid fucking things that I did. Like, I mean, that, you mean, we talked about the skin one, but just in general, I realized at some point that I saw this picture of me at 28 and somebody was like, oh my god, you are such a smoke show. You know, I'm like, yeah, you're right. And I know at the time, whenever I couldn't get with a girl, I was like, I'm too ugly. She did sick because I had this awesome personality. And it was much more the opposite. I'm sure I probably came on too strong or something or tried to be funny when I shouldn't. So I was plenty good looking. Yeah. But if I got rejected, it was probably because, boy, that guy, you know, or a matter of taste, like some people just, like, she has an opinion. It's like, that's what I regret in life. Just like, why couldn't I have been less stupid later? Yeah, like youth is wasted on the young kind of vibes. That kind of vibes, yes. Yeah, I feel that. Well, good thing we have vitamin supplements to try to make us young again. No, like, well, there are stories of like women who are post-menopausal who got their periods back. And this was good news. Well, I mean, it's a sign of the reversal of menopause. So, I don't know. My opinion on all of that kind of stuff, because there's a lot of stuff out there now, pep tides and like, stuff that's like, I could get the names, but there are letters and numbers and it's people are taking it. They're getting it. They're not FDA approved, but you can get them. And they do have results for like athletes trying to repair a tissue. Totally. Stuff like that. But I err on this side of, they don't have a lot of testing on it yet. It's been a, and anything that is fucking with how your body naturally functions, it could also exacerbate something on the bad side. In other words, you take the growth hormone. It could also grow cancer cells. Yes, that is, people have acknowledged that if you have a cancer in your, like, here, you know, your DNA, then you should not take it. That, to me, Tips to scale about like trying to stay on the natural we don't fuck with cancer. I Mean it fucks with us. Yeah, and it's going to enough as it is. Yeah, but Invite it. No, it's kind of like lock all your doors and windows at night and put the alarm on just don't make it easy for the bird Of course, they could get in but just don't make it easy, you know, so but I don't know I'm I'm what you say. I'm just not And dying well, I was dying a few minutes. I know well. I joke whatever I was so hopefully I have a few more days before that happens But as of now, that's my theory. It's just don't Until they know better and I'm very skeptical about whatever they know. I mean, yeah, not that I'm anti-vax or anything, but I am definitely Don't sit there on the white coats and say well just do what we say because when we ever been wrong You've been wrong a lot. Yeah, and that's okay. You know, that's what medical science is. You know failure Yeah, you know basals just had a rocket explode and Okay, it's that's nobody was on it And that's you're not gonna learn how to get to Mars without some Brought to rockets exploding and yes people will die And that's what mankind does the marches forward as prudently as possible, but you know There's unless AI Which I think we'll be killing us all very soon. Are you are you skeptical of the yeah, you're you're on the pessimistic side of the singularity I think there'll be great Good way to put it. Yeah, I think so in general because I don't know. It's not it's well because So many smart people like the godfather of AI Jeffrey Hinton said it had a 10 to 20 percent Extinction possibility extinction event musk was talking about that 15 years ago Can you foreign me through like what the extinction process would be because I understand like people worried about it rendering us irrelevant Well, they are extinction in tests it the AI goes to the nuclear war option way more than humans have which of course since 45 humans have never so it what does the AI? How does it benefit the AI to exterminate us? I'm just real I'm actually really curious about this. Yeah, I don't know if it What I can't answer some of these questions on a technical basis, but basically you can program I mean they're programmed in some way and they all they already hallucinate, right? We know that so is it like a Too dangerous and also they've done run tests and you know, they could think you should be Imprisoned for misgendering sure, you know, they just they're not so it's perverse instantiation is what you're saying If if we had created this thing that was like mr. Spock always logical and always we didn't we created a version of Ourself and by the way an ask kissing snotty version. I know it is really I get so I don't trust it. I don't like it and I mean, it's constantly evolving. It's evolving faster than we are so it's just it's Besides taking lots of jobs, which will leave us I don't know what we'll what we do with ourselves when the robots do everything Are you worried of that like without like if are you worried that if we separate human value from human productivity We're gonna find ourselves in like deep existential crisis I think we're there already. Yeah, well, I I wonder so we're there already because we still like culturally haven't decoupled Human value from human productivity But if there was like a cultural acceptance that like your value as a human being was not based upon how much money or how much you could produce Like I think I'm wondering what would that be a utopia or would that or do you think I mean that that idea is Alive in the present not in everyone and not in everyone to the same degree some to no degree Mm-hmm very selfish people some to a great degree people sacrifice themselves and their best interest for others all the time sure So it's not like that is totally absent in the human condition but you know Whenever I do I think we're gonna get to utopia where everybody now we're a selfish species. It's it's kind of Necessary almost to propel forward people have to you know That's why communism is a dismal failure and why capitalism works with all its flaws It's so much more effective the jury is in. It's not even close How many more people live better lives not to mention having to live under a you always have to have a a dictatorship Really is what a communist country is because people don't want to live that way So you have to have a fucking Gestapo to keep them in line so they don't revolt or Crawl over the Berlin Wall or try to get out, you know, well, so here's just a like prod this because I'm curious about this So like you're not a Star Trek fan, right? I love the original okay the one with the short skirts the one with my friend William Shatner Right, I heard that your friends have him So which is super dope? I'm a huge Star Trek fan, and I'm I wondered like when when we take away like the human need to be productive What might arise as as an expression of our motivation could it be Exploration could it be creativity? Could it be just the simple presence of being which is completely overlooked by a society that is constantly Tribune to produce like I think that like production, but what about eating well, but but yeah that we produce because we want to eat We were sure but if in this like hypothetical situation where human beings are rendered irrelevant They're irrelevant not just they're not because like we don't need to eat anymore, but because something else is now taking care of Our basic needs so in that kind of world where we don't need to do the work to get the food What do we do with our capacity to work? I don't know. I mean you You're leaping right to we get past this thing where But the robots grow the food because they're so brilliant that they can do it without any help And then they just give us the food and we don't need jobs because the robots I didn't make a big leap there Yes, that's true. The transition phase is very awkward. I Grat that yeah, I mean, I mean, I don't know. This is one of my problems with AI also There's no plan. It's just let's hurdle forward. Just give Sam Altman take the wheel wherever we're going We're going and it's moving so fast and But it's not gonna stop moving fast. Hopefully there will be some guard rails, but as long as we're in a war with China I think both both governments recognize at this point that it is possibly in both of our best interest to Get this a little bit under control. And they just because of the likes, but this was instantiation neutral annihilation The one that they just clawed to just released a Program that they announced they had to say it publicly They don't think it's safe enough for people to have they released it just to like 20 or 30 Companies, I mean, it's anti-hacking software, but of course anything that's That could be turned on its head to do the other. I mean, it's apparently they thought it was that dangerous just to have this out. So, yeah Okay I mean, I'm really curious about how this might play out because I think that the Unfortunate fact is it it's gonna play out something is going to play out And you're worried that it's going to be because human beings are constantly vying for this false sense of control over this thing that the like Some but we're gonna annihilate each other in order to Try to have a false sense of control over this thing But do you think that AI might ever bypass humans altogether and like just take control and like take us out of the It's all of the equation. Of course. That's the worry, but like but you are but you are detriment is what you're saying Yeah, but to not exist I feel would be to my detriment. Yes Okay, I don't want to I don't want to be cut out of the equation. I mean right now Do you trust humans? I? Trust them more than the robots. Yes, I'm gonna stick with my kind. I'm gonna dance with who I brought. Okay, you know like the ones you know This is an open-air question for you though me. Yeah, yeah a little bit. Yeah, like I don't well I don't trust anybody so I I don't trust humans. I don't trust robots I I mean like you'd rather like I mean, I guess maybe one of the things that human beings has to our advantage is we do have some deep Like some deep instinctual like things that that That bind us to each other like we have deeply common goals like surviving like you know Having kinship relationships like these are all things that are ultimately like universal to human beings unless you're a psychopath. And maybe the reason why you don't trust the robots is because it's like on a psychological level a psychopath, it doesn't have any reason to have any emotion and doesn't have any inclination towards kinship, which is ultimately the thing that is preventing us all from murdering each other. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. And I think it probably is too late over it already, maybe, but I don't know, I mean the kids are booing the commencement speakers when they mention AI. So the younger generation is on to the idea that this is not, and I mean the younger generation I think is on to the idea of their own irrelevancy, well, that this is going to make them, you know, but I would tell them, you know, unlike other causes that different generations had like ending the Vietnam War or civil rights or climate change, those all involved having to convince the older generations who were in charge, you know, to do something different, get out of Vietnam. Get out of Vietnam. Get out of Vietnam. I think this generation is the AI generation. You know, I think it's in their part, if they were, they're booing at the commit, well, you know, they're like their anti-AI. Yeah. You see it, I think they got, their kids who realize that they got burned by the phone, by social media, by growing up on screens. We certainly have, yeah, that was a huge mistake. You certainly have seen enough evidence and, you know, big, bestselling books like "The One" by Jonathan Hyde. Oh, I love him. He was so great. Like, the righteous mind was like so important. Yeah, and this, I mean, very influential about getting places now, schools and so forth around the world, taking the phone away from the kid, you know, at least for school hours. Yeah. But it's still a crazy fucking world we live in where the parents are absolutely obsessive. The kid doesn't even walk home alone because God forbid he's out without parental supervision for 10 seconds and then go to your room where he has a phone. Yeah. Like, portal to like every fucked up thing in the world, but you can lock him in that room with the phone. I mean, it's just deliciously, if it wasn't so sad and has somebody really bad repercussions. So I think that generation, they realize now they got burned on the phone and now it's like, oh, and now AI. But are they, are they rebelling against the phone? They're definitely, they're definitely is a part of a youth movement that is rebelling against everything that isn't like it was in the 90s, you know, people just are like all about the 90s. It's so funny. I hope so. I mean, even the iPod, which I have long been a champion of, well, many people made fun of me and still use the iPod. Even that is made. You still use the iPod? Absolutely. I love that. So do a lot of kids. It's making a comeback. I get it. I won't bore you. Like, I have a phone at home. So the way that my daughter, who's four, uses a phone is she, it's like a cord phone that she can like press a button and call grandma. Like, that's how she can use the phone. And it's a physical object that's over there. It doesn't have access to the internet. And it like gives her a sense of autonomy and ability to like access the world, but the world that is relevant to her, grandma, her, you know, her cousin, that kind of thing. So I do believe you're right that like, going back to an analog world where everything isn't immediately accessible and therefore becomes something that we become addicted to. I got something I'm really concerned about. So when the kid presses a button, it always goes with, it doesn't grandma getting like million fucking calls every day, the day? I mean, it's actually funny how bored she gets with it, like, like the idea of talking to someone for her. I mean, she's only four and like, they're not really real unless they're there. Well, maybe grandma could step up her game and come up with some more interesting dialogue for crying out. Fair. Fair. If she's putting the kid to sleep, right? No, no. The kid's, she's four and she's dodging grandma. I'm not in. Well. Delaware I'm playing. No, honestly, I think it's just because for her at four, like, people who aren't physically in the room with her aren't really real. Like, she, you know, she's hearing her voice, but it's just not the same. I think that's so interesting. It's like, when does that level of difference start to happen where people who are not in the room with us are more real than the people who are in the room with us? Like, when does that shift happen? Well, it's happening and that's what is so frightening is the amount of change that a human mind we still have that human mind can take is somewhat limited. It goes exponentially faster all the time. You know, if you lived from like, you know, 1,000 to 1,900, it kind of looked the same. Yeah. Yeah. And all the people were the same. And then it just really, and then, I mean, just in my own lifetime, I've seen answering machines, but after there were none of those and, and, you know, internet when no one had that and have that, and obviously cell phones, smartphones, email, I mean. Have you seen the bright panic sketch about AI and VR and porn? Have you seen that? No. Do you know who bright panic is? Oh, they're like a sketch comedy duo that, um, I love, but like, they have this, they have a sketch about how like, the AI and the VR just like, we're fucked. Like, as soon as those combined, like, everyone is just masturbating themselves to death. Yeah. It is a masturbation economy when you think about how many ways there are for, you know, young women to basically make a living, only fans and so forth, by making men masturbate. It's the oldest profession. That's prostitution. This is not exactly. I mean, it's a, a kin. It's a kin. Yeah. It's a kin. It's sex for money. Um, of course, the definition of prostitution, if, you know, like an dictionary isn't, wouldn't just say about sex first, it would, it's me, it broadly means anything you do that you hate doing, but you're doing it just for money. You can press, you can, what's just what's in the dead, but you can prostitute yourself in business. You can prostitute yourself in politics. You know, we all prostitute ourselves to a degree because, I mean, I certainly have done things I hated to do because I needed money. Yeah. Again, that, that whole eating thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, what's your stance on sex work? I'm not going to become one. Okay. Fair enough. It wasn't my plan either. Um, no, I'm a libertarian on all those kind of like basic fun things in life, pot, sex. I mean, Amsterdam has, not red light district. It seems like a more, uh, I mean, it's fucking nuanced though, right? In a town that is just full of hoes, am I really, it's anyone really going to stick up any more for like a prostitution is just the worst thing in the world, you'd be surprised. I mean, it's just, who are all these people on, you know, the dating sites and the pretty girl. I've never been on a dating site in my life, so there's not coming from firsthand knowledge, but what people who I know are on, say, it's like, it's like, they, what is your job? Like, it's just a lot of model, everybody's a model on dating websites. This is what I'm told. Like, certainly like these, you know, upscale, like, this is what it, you know, these, and I just think, I mean, I think there's much more of an L.A. thing, but really, like, a lot of people here just don't work, you know, this is the kind of place where, you know, pretty girls, you know, they could get into clubs, people buy them dinner, and it's like, so like, your word kin to prostitution, anytime you're doing something that's like less than completely sincere. Yeah, sure. You know, I mean, marriages contain elements of prostitution. Oh, hell yeah, they do. I need the sink fixed, so let's, yeah, let's go there, babe. Um, really, that's what marriage is like, I always figured it was, I mean, I always thought it was a lot of horse trading and sex for a sink fixing or whatever. I mean, it's a love language, it is, it's a love language. How do you, how do you communicate love? Right. I agree. And some people communicate love by fixing the sink. Yeah, I'd leave the sink out of it, but that, you know, I can't, we don't agree on these things, you know, we're, we're. very opposite. - Army? - Oh, you haven't noticed that by now? - Yeah. - Oh, wow. You like the kids and I don't and. - That doesn't mean we're opposite. - I think we're opposite. - Really? - Yes. - Tell me how we're opposites. - I mean, we're just not, we just don't think I like. We think like some big issues, we do like atheism, I think. - Well, are you saying, so think alike means we have similar opinions, but think about things. - No, I mean, I think everybody thinks about things. - But do they think about things in the same way? Like how do you approach the thought that, like how do you approach your ultimate opinion? Like the higher level of how your brain works need not be, like I don't think we think differently. We have different opinions. That doesn't mean like. - That's thinking differently. - Having different opinions is thinking differently. - Of course, otherwise we would have the same opinion. Then we would be thinking alike. That's the very definition of thinking differently. - No, so here's where you're wrong, Bill. - I see. - So the way you think is, is like, the way it's the process. It's the journey. But ultimately, what you, the ultimate conclusion that you come to is based on feelings. So you are processing feelings. - You always come back to that and that's it. - I have not argued once because I understand also, even though I'm a man that, yes, feelings matter and feelings rule, the answer. - Feelings are the basis of all of our thoughts. - They rule our thoughts. Sometimes for good, sometimes for not, often for not. Because again, they're feelings. When people say, I go by, but good. It's like, well, good for you. I go by my brain. It's a better organ to you. By your gut. - It truly is. And you have to learn to moderate that. - Yes. - And I don't know. - But even the impulse to moderate it is ultimately a feeling that you sort of train yourself into. - Yeah. - You learn to like mistrust your gut and that becomes a new feeling that informs your intellectual. - Yeah, it's like when people say, my heart, well, obviously we know the heart is not a cognitive organ, and they really, it's still, but it's not romantic to say. - Honey, I love you with all my brain, you know. - I actually would love if someone said that to me. - I bet you you would. I bet you you would. - Yeah. Have you ever said that to anyone? - Well, I'd love you with all my brain. - Yeah. - No, I just said it now. It is funny though. I will say it in the future. - You should. - In the future. - Who do you love like that? - Oh, somebody. - Somebody, you do. - Yes. - Is it one person or more than a person? Just one? - Well, there's also-- - I like monogamous in your brain love. (laughing) - That'd be a good name for a rock album. - We should start it. - Or even the band. - Yeah, monogamous for your brain love. - And what would they call them for sure? - Uh. - Nog. (laughing) - You get to see, you get to see nog tonight. (laughing) - So you're doing stand-up now, right? - I am, yeah. - Oh, wow, how are you enjoying that? - I'm loving it. - Where you go up? You go up on the comedy store and stuff? - Actually, that's where I'm so fucking annoying. So the first time I ever did stand-up was as the like surprise guest for Whitney Cummings at her roast at the comedy store. So I don't have the typical trajectory of most comedians where they put in their time in all of the comedy clubs. I put in my time elsewhere, but it gave me a sense of humor. - Sure. - I get a lot of satisfaction of being able to like work through all of the absurd insanity that I've lived through and also not necessarily relevant to prison and all of that. I have a hell of prison jokes, but I also have hell of mom jokes, just like life jokes. - So you do jokes about the prison? - Oh, yeah. - Oh yeah, it deserves to be ridiculed. - I agree. - Yeah. - You were unfairly railroaded, I think. It's my estimation, and I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it. - Yeah, it is true. - You know, I always think anything that what's, when you weren't there, don't ever tell me anybody knows anything hundred percent. But I just know what I instinctively feel and know from facts. I mean, I've had army hammer here. I love rehabilitating people. You don't need it. You're past it. And I'm glad you are. You should be rehabilitated. You shouldn't have gone through that. And, you know, everybody has trials, but boy, yours was a-- - Literal, too. - Literal and a doozy. I know if you ever saw the Oliver Stone movie, or maybe he just wrote it. - What happens then? - He's this kid, Billy Hayes, I think was his name. I think it was a true story. He and his girlfriend went to Turkey. This is like the late 70s. And he thinks, oh, I can like set us up really well in life. If I take back a whole bunch of hash that, you know, you could get in Turkey for probably, you know. You could sell it for a thousand times. So he straps like a whole bunch of hash to end days about to get on the plane. I mean, attention, it's a great. If you want a tense movie, maybe it's not good for you. - Oh my God. - And, you know, he's about-- - Lots of real, yeah. - And then suddenly the lights go on the guards and, you know, on the ground. And then he's in Turkey's prison for like seven years until he had to get out. - Only seven? - Yeah, we owe more. - No, no, no, I mean, I just didn't sense that he strapped like all of that hash. - Well, he escaped. - Oh, he escaped from prison? - Yeah, he had just escaped, at least in the movie. - Okay. - Yes, how? Well, it's for the alert, but it's from 1979, so fuck you. - Yeah. - He, something, something, I know that the guard, and the guard. - He bribed a guard or something? - No, he got him in the guard used to take him into, like a room until like beat him. You know, this is a Turkish prison. - My version was sexual harassment, but continue. - Oh, well, I'm sorry. - I mean, whatever it's. - Yeah, I'm sure. But, and he pushes the guard against the wall and the guards, there's a hat rack in the bulb on the hat rack, like kills it. And then he just puts his, I think figures, this is my chance to get. So he puts on the guards uniform and walks out the front gate and finds his way across the bus routes, I guess, to Greece or something, and, you know, that's how the movie ends. I don't know how life ends. - Okay, well, that's not a kin to my experience. - Stop that. - Yeah, no, I do not claim to have the biggest sad story, like, you know, fucking a man. - And honestly, you're in Italy. I think you were gonna get sexually harassed anyway. - Just saying the Italian. - It's a just a moron. - It's a just Italian, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Come on, and be a pinch of the ass. So it just means that we like you. - Yeah? - That's actually fair. - It's not fair, it's not fair. - I mean, have you ever been a 20-year-old girl on the streets of Italy? - I have. - Yes. - I have, and I have so, I feel, you know, sheep are saying it, but my memories are all good. But I just, it was so great to be a hot young girl in Italy. - Wait, have you ever been jealous of hot girls? - Yeah, really? - Well, jealous, no, but I think people would be realistic if they acknowledged, along with certain other privileges, that in this world, and again, probably more of an LA thing, but not just here, they were such a thing as pretty privilege. - Oh, 100%. - Oh yeah. - 100% there's pretty privilege. Everybody wants to just be close to and around pretty people. When pretty people like you, it's very validating. So then you do things to please them because they like, it's to make them like you. That's totally true. I do think that there are different kinds of attention. Like, I think one of the mistakes that, especially young people make is they think that if they're getting attention, that that attention is all the same kind of attention, and it's not. - Oh no. - But I'm, hmm, I will say that I've never, I've never once been jealous of men. Like, I've never like thought, oh, if only what I was a man. - Oh, I'm right, I'm not jealous of women. I mean, they've had it rougher. I mean, to be, I was, if I still had the personality I have as a woman. - You kill it. - But women in the workplace, very successful. - Sure, yeah, it's not, you know, and they do better in college now. It's the men who are like self, I mean, both are fucked up in their way, but men are very lost. - No, I'm not saying that men are lost. And in fact, like, again, I think testosterone is a hell of a drug that I don't have to deal with. - Yeah. - Like, I feel for that. - And when men get lost, they're dangerous. - Yes, exactly. - Way more than women. - When women are lost, they're not. - They can be, but like, not like men. - No, like men. - No, not like, I'm telling you. We agree on that one. - Okay. - Men, lost men are dangerous 'cause they're, they're violent and by nature. And, uh, You know, when you're a meat head at 20, I mean, why do you think we put very young people in the military? We want people who are not going to ask a question. When you say to a soldier, run that way toward where the machine gun fire is coming. If you want to have a successful army, they kind of have to do it. That doesn't happen at your age or mine. It just doesn't, and so, you know, you think about somebody who is that, we say, supple of the mind. And what can be put in there to coercion and indoctrination. I mean, the latest batch of, like, batch hit killings and crazy shit is just so beyond even a political side. They just believe everything's stupid that anybody puts on the internet. So you can't even say, oh, they're conservative, they're liberal, they're just crazy. They believe some shit out of all of them. Right. Like, it's almost like a weird niche thing on its own. It's not even a political at that moment. They just know that their life sucks. It really doesn't, but they grew up very entitled and they have feelings were indulged too much. So they think life should be perfect and what it doesn't, they're all in on just like taking people out at their school just, and they know they're going to kill themselves. But they're. But it's for a higher purpose, which is making a statement, which is like, a standing their ground, which is. I feel they wouldn't do it if they weren't so convinced their life is so terrible. It's like, could you wait till it get started? Yeah, we're all miserable in high school. I didn't even expect it to be different. I think that people feeling bad emotions is an important part of the human experience. Right. Unavoidable. Unavoidable, but also an important part of the human experience because from those bad feelings you derive meaning and perspective and purpose, and sometimes that can be channeled in a bad way and sometimes it can be channeled. But in fact, that's one reason why people get indoctrinated towards religion in prison a lot of the time is because they are at that like really deep dark place and they are very susceptible to influence. And the people who have like unlimited influence in prisons are religious figures. Other people have to go, you know, turn themselves inside out to try to like get access and religious people do not. So like really it's like a captive audience to that is very susceptible to indoctrination. So that's why that happens. I'm wondering about the approach of just like the will get over yourself approach, like because I don't know because like, okay, so here's where I'm going. Who's saying get over yourself to that? Well, I don't know, like maybe I'm wrong, but I'm getting the kind of vibe from you that you're like, yeah, we all feel shitty, get over it. Is that right? No, because it's such a reductionist, I mean, if you wanted to, if we have to speak in forward phrases, yes, but there's so much more to it than that. But yes, I do think kids think they have it way worse than they do. And I think they have been raised wrong. I do think they're too indulged. I do think they are too entitled a lot of the times. A lot of times these kids, you read about their life and, you know, they're fucked up things in it, yeah, families are very often divorced, broken home, but, you know, it's okay. I came from a divorced home every time. That's just the way life is now, we marriages don't stay together, like they did when I was a kid. Yeah, and also marriages staying together doesn't necessarily mean that you're in non-toxic environment. And it's a tough thing for a kid to go through, but kids are resilient and, I mean, I was so much less happy when I was a kid. But do you think there's so much more fear and misery, and I didn't expect it to end until I got to being an adult, and I certainly didn't blame society for it. You know, I was like, well, I can't get laid and I just masturbate all day long and that sucks. And so I'm going to take out the school. So I wanted to learn how to ask a girl out, so that would have solved all the problems. But my second response to not being able to do it wasn't, and then get a gun. Well, so here's a question. Do you think that like a lot of the sort of anger and just rage and grief that people feel as a natural consequence of their brains changing and being fucking awkward in puberty, like all of that, like everything is fucking chaos in your brain. Like I feel like prior to today, that was really internally directed as self-hatred, which is why you saw a lot of things like cutting and like all that kind of thing. And whereas now we're seeing it being given an outlet that is outwardly directed. Yeah, I mean, if you mean I'm going to hurt myself or I'm going to hurt you. Other people. Yeah. And I think that's true. We see a lot of it directed. And of course, ultimately, if they do kill themselves, I mean, there's two kids, I think, like 18, you're around 18. Did you see they attacked that mosque? Oh my God. I'm not in on the news, but I believe in that. And that's okay. I'm just telling you. I know you're not. Yeah. You know, you immediately you would think, oh, these kids are anti-Muslim. They were. And everything else. Yeah. And they had a manifesto. And it was like everything. It was what the punchline was, of course, of all the people they hate. And it's everybody. One of the kids is Latino. He hates Latino. They hate racist. I mean, they hate racist. But they are racist. You know, it was the most white. They hate gay. They hate every fucking thing. But at the bottom, it's like, it's the Jews. They're literally saying at the bottom, like-- Oh, by the way. Also the Jews. Yeah. No, it's like I find manifestos to be just like the saddest and most hilarious thing ever. Like I know that they're related to like all the tragedies. But like-- Right. Have you ever seen a well-written manifesto? Yes. The Unaborma. Oh, shit. Again, I'm 18. So I don't know. But like, was he compelling? Very. Fuck. That's scary. I thumbed through it every night before a bet. No. It was-- no, he was a-- and I think he was an intellect of some kind. I don't know. He certainly was a nut because he went and lived and like-- Well, it being intellectually coherent doesn't mean that it's like-- No, he had a point to make about society becoming too technologically dependent. I think that's what the point was. Maybe in the-- Oh, damn. What about AI? What do you do today? You're going to be like, wow, the Unaborma. Listen to that motherfucker because what he did was he was sending bombs to like-- but it was so random. It was like the head of United Airlines or something. Like, what? So we should ground all the planes, you know, because it's-- Yeah. That's where it-- Oh, no, me. --become intellectually coherent. But in the manifesto, which was apart from the violent part, like his critique of society and technology was not-- did not sound crazy. It wasn't like the scrollings of a madman. It was like a thesis that probably would have gotten an A+, for instance, you know, because it was sort of anti-tosciety, but it was valid as I recall. I mean, this is, you know, it's been so long since I've been in Supermax with him and all the other criminals. Have it been to Supermax? Oh, it's a rough-- Well, I will have been to one prison. No, but so you know what Supermax is. I mean, I've never been to prison here in the U.S. Can talk to me about-- Well, that's the one to go to. Well, thank you. I enjoyed this. I have to do my other interview now. Oh, you do? Yeah. Have another one after me? Yes. I-- you know what the thing with this show is? What? It's like you do it. Yeah. But you have a guest and then like, a lot of times the guest, like, well, okay, will you do my-- And then it's like-- Oh, shit. So you're on the hook. On the hook. Oh, I'm sorry. Wow. You don't want to be-- You know, it's like, well, how can-- I do that to people like, well, if you do mine, well, I do yours. You know. So-- It sounds a lot like the oldest profession in the world. Well, it does. I'm such a horror. All right. Thank you. 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