Am I The (Climate) A**hole?

Welcome to How to Save a Planet. This is the show about what we need to do to address climate change and how to make those things happen. Hello everyone, before we start today's episode, I have a disclaimer, so we usually keep it pretty clean on the show, but that won't be the case this week. Today, you're going to be using a bad word, pretty consistently throughout the show. It's not the worst bad word, but we're going to be saying it a lot, so we wanted to give you a warning. If you have kids or you don't like cursing, you're going to give you a second before you tell you what the bad word is, okay, ready? It's asshole. We're going to be saying asshole a lot today because on today's episode, we're playing sort of a game, an internet game, a game called "Am I the asshole?" And here to tell us more about that is how to save a planet producer, Janay Morris. Hey Janay. Hi Alex. So explain "Am I the asshole?" It's probably familiar to many of our listeners, but just in case. It's a forum that's on this gigantic website called Reddit, and it's one of the most popular threads out here. So people will post different situations that are both complicated and just petty. And they're trying to figure out whose fault it is and who exactly was the asshole in that situation. All right. So why don't you give us an example of a typical Reddit "Am I the asshole" post? So this is one that I just pulled from like the top front page, "Am I the asshole for giving my steps on a 20-minute time limit to return my car before I phone the police?" Right. Okay. Whoa. Foning the police, huh? And then people will vote, yes, you're the asshole or no, you're not the asshole. It's basically this big debate on Reddit, right? Yes. Exactly. Right. So that's a typical post. And your idea was sort of like, why don't we do this, but for climate questions, right? Because the crux of a lot of these "Am I the asshole" is all about, you know, what's the proper way to behave in a situation. And of course, this comes up all the time in questions about climate and what our role is and what's the proper way to behave, right? People weigh their own personal choices about what to eat, what to buy, whether to travel by airplane or not. And if two different people in a given situation make different climate-related choices, you can lead to sticky situations and cause people to wonder, "Am I the climate asshole?" And so over the past few months, I've been collecting climate-related Am I the asshole stories from both our listeners and just from people that I found on Reddit. And today we're going to be hearing four stories that I collected. Right. And the way it usually works on Reddit, the users of Reddit vote. That's hard to do on a podcast. But in an Am I the asshole situation, a judgment must be rendered. And so in lieu of a democratic decision, like on Reddit, with lots of people voting, we have assembled a small climate tribunal, three climate experts to render the verdict. And our first expert is a very special guest. His name is Raleigh Williams. He's a stand-up comedian who also happens to have a master's degree in climate science and policy. There's a channel on YouTube called Climate Town in which he breaks down climate concepts with incredible clarity and humor. Here's a clip from one of his videos. Well, it's time to crack open a cold one and then pour a little out for the end of an ear here at ExxonMobile. That's right. For 30 years, Exxon has been accused of funding disinformation campaigns and paying off politicians and lying about climate change. And for 30 years, they've had one response. It wasn't me. It's the classic shaggy defense. And it's been incredibly effective. And Jeanette, you've described him as a kind of climate-specific John Oliver. Yes. Wow. That is extremely high praise. Thank you very much, Jeanette. Of course. Raleigh Williams. Welcome to the show. Thrilled to be here. You guys are really setting me up for a failure here in the rest of this piece. We're also joined by someone very familiar to listeners of the show. Our own wonderful Kendra Pierre Lewis. Hey, Kendra. Hello, Alex. I'm going to admit that I haven't built in bias and I'm fairly certain that I think there are all the assholes already. And our final panelist is me. I know you normally start with the least exciting person and then build to the most exciting person. We did the opposite. Okay. So you've met us all. Coming up after this short break, our judgments will rain down like fire for everyday people wondering, am I the climate asshole? We will tell them, yes or no, it's coming up after the break. Pink Panther is here. Coach and Spotify are teaming up to bring music and style together and they want you to be part of it. Grab your friends and head to the tabby tour, hitting cities around the country with live performances from special artists, exclusive experiences and personalized products and discover custom playlists on Spotify, but just for you based on who you are and how you listen. Live your story with Coach. Find more at coach.com. Somebody asked me how I'd define myself and I didn't know what to say because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others. Because identity is not a performance, it's an exploration, never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. Paradox Intense and the New Sweet Chemistry by Prada. This episode is brought to you by Paul Molliv. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Paul Molliv ultra. Paul Molliv's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9% of grease, leaving your dishes, sparkling clean, and the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at paulmolliv.com. Welcome back everyone. The panel is ready and ready to judge. Janay, tell us who we're going to be judging first. We're going to start off with a redder by the name of Jack. He's a government contractor in Washington, D.C. and he lives in an older row home where there's four roommates. The summers in D.C. can be really hot. And so Jack bought a fan to help keep his room cool. And this fan ended up causing a fight. One of Jack's roommates had moved to the U.S. fairly recently from Germany and she didn't like that he kept the fan on all the time in the summer, which really exasperated Jack. I called him and here's how he described that fight with his roommate. I was down in the kitchen and I had like run back down there to like grab something and she had seen me in the kitchen and had seen that the fan was still on in my room when I wasn't in my room. Even though I was just gone for a moment but she sees me in the kitchen and is like telling me like you know it's probably using up a lot of electricity. It's really going to hurt our energy bill and we'll be paying for it and we're also in an environmental crisis so these are things that you need to be really conscious about. And I'm like listen a like I'm gone for a second. I'm going back in two seconds and it's not like going to have a noticeable impact. I literally just ran down here to grab some water before a meeting. I don't have time for this conversation and be I take a lot of other steps to be conscious about the environment too. You know I'm consistently recycling. I pretty much exclusively use public transit. I don't Uber or anything and she just kind of framed it as in like you know it's not really having an impact. But what would have an impact is if you turned your like you know three watt fan that you have in your room off. Am I the asshole for wanting to use a box fan in the summer even though it uses extra electricity? Okay so Kendra we're going to start with you. So I don't actually think he's the asshole because box fans use very little electricity especially compared to an air conditioner. I don't actually think he's the asshole in the scenario I kind of think the roommate is. Yeah. Raleigh what do you think? Okay. I'm going to say they're kind of both the asshole here and here's here and I got some real reasons. First of all I mean it's not a three watt box fan. We're probably talking about something like a 70 watt box fan but even at 70 watts it's like one cent an hour to run that thing. So obviously this dude is not really destroying the planet one cent an hour at a time but do you remember the phrase he used when he walked it passed his roommate. First of all obviously a lie he's not just like running to get the water and then running back. He's probably dawdling he's trying to make himself look better but it doesn't matter because when you tell your roommate I don't have time for this conversation. That's immediate asshole territory but the point is he was being a dick his roommate was being a dick by trying to micromanage without actually doing any of the research. Just kind of shooting from the hip they're both they're both being assholes. He's definitely not an asshole to answer his question and am I the asshole for wanting to use a box fan in the summer even though it uses electricity. No. I feel like this is one of these things where the argument that you should turn off your box fan every second you're out of your room is an environmental argument that I find wrong on many many counts one it's like it doesn't matter like every person on earth could turn off the fan and it wouldn't get us out. of this crisis. But second, it's like, I just think tactically, it's just the wrong take. Like, I just think, like, this is the thing that will turn people against wanting to do anything. If like, they think that what is required is, is like a fan monitor, like sitting on your shoulder every day. I feel like that's just like such a icky, it just people don't respond to that. So I think strategically that viewpoint of like, we're going to lecture our way out of this crisis is just wrong. I don't think we're going to be able to do it by like sort of lecturing our roommates about fan usage. You're just saying that because you secretly have a fan on right now. I don't have a fan. Also, it's hot in the summer. People need to cool themselves for crying out loud, especially it's going to get hotter. Gotcha. So is Jack the asshole in this situation? I say not the asshole. No. I think he's not the asshole for the fan thing. What is he the asshole for? For, if you have a bad attitude, he sounded like he was rolling his eyes a little bit in that email. I was bad to roll your eyes at people. If I was running into the kitchen at the last minute for a meeting and I'm giving a surprise lecture, you're probably lucky the only thing I see is you don't have time for this. I mean, I do not believe his account of the events though. I mean, I don't think that's really what happened. I think he probably was taking his sweet time. He was probably playing a couple of games of college duty on the way, leaving the freezer door open. Anyway, all right. So I think, but in terms of the question of the fan, Nero unanimous, he's not the asshole. Not the asshole. Not the asshole. So this next one comes to us from one of our listeners via email. Sarah C wrote to us with the subject line, am I the a whole baby shower? I'll read her email. She says quote, we're having a baby soon. And as I was putting together the registry, I wanted to note that most of the things I was adding could be bought second hand. I was primarily worried about the older generation buying big plastic toys, which for some reason, they love to do online marketplaces are replete with toys. There's simply no excuse to buy them new. Same thing with clothes. My husband said that this wasn't really the time to demand eco consciousness since people were buying us gifts. And I can see his point. But if not now, then when? Am I the asshole for making this a part of my baby shower experience? Her husband's got a bad attitude in this story. There's always somebody with a bad attitude. He doesn't want to be the German roommate in the previous story. He doesn't want to be the proverbial German roommate. Here's how I think her and her husband are worried about are we going to be too pushy with our whatever friends and relatives, if we are sort of suggesting to them by it used, is that like, are we going to be forcing our politics on people or whatever? And like, is that going to be perceived as rude or something? And I would argue that when it's a baby registry, first of all, no, because I think it's fine to suggest something. And then if people want to ignore your suggestion, they can. So I think it's fine to remind people that try buying used things. I think that's a good message to get on the world. It doesn't push me at all to do it. And second of all, like, when you have a baby registry, like, it's your rules, you know, you're literally telling people what to buy for you. So you're like, it's the one time in life where you're like, here's exactly what I want. Here's how much it costs by it for me. And so if you're allowed to do that, then I think you could certainly go one step further and be like, and by the way, by it used, that's better. Yeah, I agree with Alex because like we live in society where there's this expectation of what you will buy for people and the expectations you're going to buy X Y and Z brand new. And she's essentially giving people permission to buy it used and saving the money. Or if there's someone who had a kid recently and have that thing and no longer need it, she's giving them permission to give it to her. I don't even know this person. I might, I might give her a baby gift. I got so much leftover crap. And actually though, this is something that we talk about a lot. You know, how do you make your personal actions go beyond just you? How do you make them? I remember we had this previous guest on the show, Dr. Catherine Wilkinson, who coined this term, make your actions ripple. And you don't make your actions ripple by lecturing people about fan usage. But in a situation like this, where you sort of have social license to tell people what to do, it's actually a good place to suggest taking this action. Like here's an action that I take and it would be lovely if you all took it as well. This is a scenario where you're actually allowed to say that and in fact, it might end up sort of moving beyond you to a larger group of people, which is always what we want to sort of take it beyond the individual and make it as collective as we can. And you know, not only is it good for the planet, I think actually a lot of people would welcome the chance to not have to buy a new expensive gift every time somebody has a baby and instead buy something cheaper and used. I think a lot of people want to break free of the baby shower expectations arms race. From my point of view, I think she would be a real trend setter. It's the same thing with like diamond rings for engagements. You know, it's like obviously everyone wants to stop buying diamond rings that cost like the, the, a tenth of your house. But I'm not going to be the first one to stop doing that. You know, no one wants to take the bullet for the engagement ring thing. But everyone wants it gone. So is Sarah the asshole, not the asshole. No, not the asshole. Absolutely not. She seems great actually. I'd want her as a friend. We're unanimous so far. All right, everyone, it is time for a quick break. When we come back, the judging will continue. Yes, it will. We have our last two scenarios. One involving that cauldron of seeding resentment and outrage, the office recycling bin, and another that attempts to put a price on being an asshole. That's all coming up. Pink Panther us here. Coaching Spotify are teaming up to bring music and style together, and they want you to be part of it. Grab your friends and head to the tabby tour, hitting cities around the country with live performances from special artists, exclusive experiences and personalized products, and discover custom playlists on Spotify, but just for you, based on who you are and how you listen. Learn more at coach.com. Somebody asked me how I define myself, and I didn't know what to say, because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? Because identity is not a performance. It's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. This episode is brought to you by Palmolev. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolev ultra. Palmolev's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9% of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at Palmolev.com. Okay, welcome back. We're here again with Raleigh Williams. Hello, Raleigh. Hello, Alex. It's great to be here with the host of this podcast. Alex Bloomberg. Kendra Pierre Lewis. I'm still here in Queens, the best borrow. And how to say a planet producer, Janay Morris, who has been introducing us to a bunch of listeners who have the same question. What's their question, that's right. So far, we've heard two. And our crack panel has rendered two very swift and unanimous judgments. And we're about to hear from two more. So Janay, who's next? So this next scenario comes to us from a Reddit user. And they're asking, am I the asshole for encouraging environmental responsibility in my office? And what are everybody's responses to that title? Yes, maybe I don't know something about the way it's phrased. Yeah, I think if you, if by encouraging, she means like sort of cantankerizing around the office, slapping people in the face. And yes, it's something about the way that's phrased is like, making me nervous. But I'm saying no, if all she's doing is, you know, asking for better 401k options and hiding the current machine. All right. Well, let's see. I'll be the one reading this one for you guys. So listen up. Am I the asshole for encouraging environmental responsibility in my office? There are about 500 people in this office. And I started here about a month and a half ago. Everything is going pretty well except for one nagging problem, single use, everything. I'm talking Styrofoam cups, Java jackets, plastic utensils, canned water, you get the picture. I see people walking around with those wax coated paper cups for coffee, water, juice, whatever. Due to their mixed nature, these can't be recycled. Get every day I see them piling up in their recycling bin. Yesterday, I took it upon myself to tape some simple paper signs on the cup area. They say, "Can Consider bringing your own reusable mug to the office. Our reliance on single use items creates a necessary garbage and furthers are dependents on plastic. However, when I came in today, the signs upstairs where the HR people sit were all taken down. So I printed out more. Again, taken down within two hours. The HR people are responsible for ordering all of the kitchen crap, so I suspected them. I would gladly talk with HR about this, but I feel like since they're the ones ordering this stuff, they're biased. I'm not sure where this reluctance is coming from. As a San Francisco Bay Area, we should be held to a higher standard of sustainability, especially as a mid to large company. You'll be hard pressed to find this much single use garbage at any other office around here. So, am I the asshole for being concerned about our office sustainability? How should I resolve this? Alright, lots of juicy details in here, but one quick note before we get to judging. We did look into this and it looks like these kind of wax-lined cups can actually go into the recycling bin in San Francisco where this poster is from, but that isn't true everywhere. It depends on where you live. Some places take them, some don't. Anyway, judges, what do you have to say? Kendra, let's start with you. Not the A-hole. They're a handful of signs selling people maybe use a cup. I mean, I think she should talk to HR, but realistically she's not yelling at anyone. She's not hectoring anyone. She's just giving people information they may not have. Okay. Raleigh? I got to say, my asshole meter kind of tingled a little bit in a couple of different places in this story, including, you know, "Oh, I took it upon myself to print off some simple signs that had 600 words each on them." She wasn't yelling at anybody, but that doesn't really sound to me like the way to make change happen. It sort of sounds like the way somebody would like, "I think I know best, and I'm going to do. " It sounds a little bit like the German roommate from Scene 1. I just agree, Raleigh, I think because she specified that the cups were turning up with a recycling bin. So many people put things that can't be recycled in places they can be recycled. And this to me is no different than putting up a recycling fire that actually tells you what goes in each container. The only difference is that nobody ever reads those fires, and they're too complicated. This is like a streamlined version of that fire. What I'm suspecting is that everybody in the office might be wish-cycling. Wish-cycling? Or like aspirational cycling? It's putting things in recycling bins that can't be recycled, and people do it partly out of ignorance. But also, I think, because if you put all of that in a garbage can, it makes you, you're acknowledging where it's going. And so go ahead and stick it in the recycling bin because it makes you feel better like it's going to get taken care of, but it won't, and it actually just increases recycling costs and has a whole other trickled-on-effective issues. I personally have seen the same sort of thing happen, but I would say she's not the asshole, but she's not really nailing it, printing out signs feels like a little passive aggressive to me. I think potentially talking to HR directly, trying to create some kind of consensus might be a more effective solution to her recycling woes and San Francisco's. But Raleigh, to your point about the passive aggressive sign, I will say that I'll read the sign, the first line of the sign verbatim. It says, "Consider bringing your own reusable mug to the office, smiley face." So there was a smiley face. She was trying to be nice, at the very least. I mean, a smiley face does not make a thing nice or not nice. Raleigh doesn't like smiley faces. It's not the presence of a smiley face that turns a passive aggressive note into an upbeat fun one. In fact, it can actually be a four-small supplier against your cause. Smiley face is the emoji equivalent of no offense, but. Right, yeah. Yeah, I think there's a big difference between whether or not it's effective and whether or not she's an asshole. I'm not arguing that it's going to be effective. I just don't think it makes her an asshole. I think there's a couple things at play here, which is kind of like Kendra, I know because you've done episodes on recycling that I think you're seeing in her like a kindred spirit. You know, I mean, leaving aside the fact that it seems like she's wrong on the particulars of what isn't recycling in San Francisco, she isn't our heart. And someone who just wants to make recycling work better, and you're like, "Yes, signs, thank you." It's also because full disclosure, I'm having my upstairs neighbor's death recycle properly. It's like this whole issue, and I like don't want to call them out of it, but it's the same thing. It's their putting things in the recycling that don't belong there. It's made me some simple signs will help them out, Kendra. I thought about doing it. I almost ordered, the Department of San tissue in New York will send you free signs. And I came this close to ordering the free signs to put in the cans, but I chickened out the last minute. But you know what, Raleigh? Inspired by this woman? I'm doing it. I'm getting the free signs. I'm labeling the cans. I'm educating my upstairs neighbor in the most terrible hospital. I'll believe it when I see it. Doing it right now. I feel her pain, but I also think that like the point of like even writing this is like makes me think that she's a little bit the asshole, but even the exercise of wondering if I am the asshole is a little bit beside the point. Do you want your office to stop using single use crap or not? And if you want your office to stop using it, I think you have to sort of like admit to yourself that the tactics you're using right now don't seem to be effective. There's two lines in here that stand out to me like she's like, I would gladly talk to HR about this, but I feel like since they're the ones ordering the stuff they're biased and then I'm not sure where this reluctance is coming from. Those are very answerable questions. Just go and talk to them and find out like maybe they're not biased. Maybe they also are like trying to figure out a solution. Maybe they would love somebody to help them figure it out. Maybe they wouldn't, but if you talk to them about why maybe they would change their tune. I just feel like there's a whole bunch of approaches that you could take, but they all require not seeing HR as the enemy right off the bat at least before you talk to them. Actually, she was right over there putting up the science section HR. Maybe she could have just read them like the little script and brought them into the fold. It is possible that your office is run by an evil cabal of HR climate deniers, but I doubt it. And the thing is we know that taking action is much easier if you're part of a community, right? You're emotionally, you're not the only one doing it. You have a group of people who are supporting you. And it's also more effective, the more people that are involved, the easier it is to spread the word, attract others to the cause, and changes like the one this Redditor is talking about that involve, you know, sort of like a large scale change in behavior, right? She wants to change the behavior of everyone in her office. Those kinds of changes are almost impossible to achieve without building a consensus around that change. In other words, without building a community. And so that's sort of, you know, where I would say she needs to start. If she's putting up science and other people are taking them down, that's clearly not a community. If a whole bunch of people are putting up signs with her, then that is a community. And that's how you know it's working. I am going to admit I was only happing attention because I was passive aggressively ordering the DS on my decals, which I've now ordered Raleigh, so I've done it. I've done it. Ordering is not putting them up, we'll see, I'm going to put your shirt on the Twitter. I will. So is this Redditor the asshole? I'm not going to say she's the asshole now. I think she's trying to do a good thing and I don't want her to stop. I feel like maybe this tactic isn't necessarily working. I don't think she's the asshole. I'm maintaining my initial pronouncement and maintaining that she's not the asshole. I'm going to say not the asshole with a small caveat that there are more. More effective ways to inside this sort of change that you're looking to see. So that brings us to our final listener, right? Yes, yes, absolutely. So this last one is from another listener in Vermont named Sequoia Young and she actually sent in her voice memo, so you guys are going to get to hear her beautiful voice. I bought my first home in January and within the first four months my natural gas combination boiler started to break and it needs to be replaced, but do I replace my gas boiler with another gas boiler and stay reliant on fossil fuels, which is really something I'm not interested in and I know that it is our duty to do the right thing for the planet. But it would be $10,000 to get a new boiler or if I convert to electric heat pumps to heat my home, it is looking like $30,000 or more. And my question is, am I an A-hole if I take the cheaper auction? Is it worth going into debt for the planet? Okay, so this listener wants to swap out her fossil fuel gas boiler for a much cleaner and more efficient electric heat pump, but there's a big price difference, 10 grand for gas, 30 grand for electric. Raleigh, let's start with you. Is she an asshole for not wanting to spend an additional $20,000 to replace a fossil feel furnace. The question you're asking is, am I the asshole for not having them money to buy something that I perceive is better for the climate, which spoiler alert, you are right, that is better for the climate. No, I don't think you're the asshole for not having the $20,000 lying around to buy yourself a heat pump. Don't, you know, risk putting yourself out of your home just because you didn't want to have heat, you know, from a fossil fuel. It's, it's about, you know, trying to be a little pragmatic. And if you can't afford it you can't afford it, you know, so not the asshole. Yeah, I mean, I would agree. Like, you don't know the money, you don't know the money. Yeah, I mean, I feel like you got to get a second opinion on where you're getting your heat pump or gas boiler, maybe for Mont, the price is a little high. Yeah, I second your thought about getting a second opinion, just, you know, as somebody who's been doing some home, a lot of home renovation, like it's, it's shocking how much quotes and stuff vary. And maybe you just got a person who is like, particularly busy and they were just like throughout the highest thing they could think of just because they didn't want another client. And maybe there's somebody else out there who will do it for cheaper. But, you know, so, so it's definitely worth, you know, checking around. Yeah, I was going to say they should check out the database of state incentives for renewables and and efficiency website. And they should, you know, double check with either the installer they talked to, we're finding a new heat pump installer to ask what rebates are available because it, it almost sounds like that, that installer was just sort of like this is a sticker price and not really necessarily walking them through what the end cost might actually be for them, you know, and sort of figuring that out of the long term to really see if that cost difference is as stark as they think it is. To what Raleigh said, not being independently wealthy so that you can afford to buy the greenest thing does not make you the asshole, but it does point to the need for broader systems change so that we can do these sorts of energy efficiency retrofits or these green retrofits across the board. Like we can't expect everyone to have enough money to do them. And so, as a country, we really should be thinking how can we make it so that people can make these switches whether or not they have enough money in the bank to do it on their own. And to that end, there was just this big piece of legislation that passed very recently the Installation Reduction Act, which is money in it to do just that, right? To make it cheaper for people like Sequoia to electrify their home heating systems with heat pumps. But it's definitely something that Sequoia should look into. And IRA is just one pot of money for changing your house. There's also like state and local programs that I think would be makes sense to look into as well. Anyway, it's like, it's definitely worth looking around seeing what the incentives are. Look at with the, do you want to say the name of that website again, Kendra? And we'll put it in the show notes as well. It's google.com. I prefer Ask Jeaves myself. No, it's the database of state incentives for renewables and efficiency. We'll just link it. It's too long. Yeah, we'll put a link in the show notes and in our newsletter as well. But I guess we're saying make sure that you're checking around. And then I would say keep it as a goal. Awesome. So is Sequoia the asshole? No, not the asshole. Not the asshole. Sequoia is definitely not the asshole. Panel, thank you so much. This was really, really fun. Thanks for coming. Thanks, Raleigh. Of course, it was delightful to be able to judge people in a structured context. Great. Outside of the confines of my own mind, Raleigh, if people want more Raleigh, where do they go? Yeah, look, I mean, your life seems to be going well so far, listeners. You don't need a little vitamin, me in it. No problem. But if you want to go to YouTube and type in climate town, you can see I think 14 or 15 videos that I've done. And, Jenae, thank you as well for checking down all those listeners, getting their stories, and locking us through this episode. Of course. Thanks for having me, y'all. And that brings us to our patented "How to Save a Planet" calls to action. We tried to tailor these calls to action to the various scenarios we heard from in today's episode. So, call action number one. This relates to the first scenario, the one about the roommates who got into the fight over fan usage. To better understand how much electricity the various appliances in your home are using, you can go and check out energy.gov. They have a very handy chart that helps you compare the amount of energy that your appliances are using. And we'll help you make better choices about where you can save a lot by reducing usage and where it's not quite as big an issue. It can also potentially help resolve disputes like the one we heard about in today's episode. And then call to action number two. This relates to the last scenario we heard from. If you're in the market for a new heat pump, there are lots and lots of links to research affordable and climate-friendly options. And we are going to post a couple of these links in our show notes and in our newsletter. Our newsletter, which you can subscribe to, by going to howtosaveaplanet.show. How To Save a Planet is a Spotify original podcast and gimmilet production. It's hosted by me. Alex Bloomberg, this episode was produced by Janay Morris. The rest of our reporting and producing team includes Annalad Kendra Pier Lewis, Rachel Waldholtz, and Daniel Ackerman, our supervising producer is Matt Schultz, our editor is Caitlin Kenny, our intern is Janay Morris. Sound Design and Mixing by Hans Dale Shee, with original music by Peter Leonard and Emma Munger. Our fact checker for this episode is James Gaines. Special thanks to climate ethicist, William Lin. Thanks to all of you for listening. We'll see you next week. [Music] Pink Panther us here, coach and Spotify are teaming up to bring music and style together, and they want you to be part of it. Grab your friends and head to the tabby tour, hitting cities around the country with live performances from special artists, exclusive experiences, and personalized products. And discover custom playlists on Spotify, but just for you based on who you are and how you listen. Fall never arrives all at once. Verse the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf, because you don't simply step into the season. You create it, layer by layer, until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.