‘Always whingeing’: King’s former aide slams Harry & Meghan for playing ‘blame game’

How exactly do you handle warring royals and the stories they leak to the press? Queen Elizabeth II's former press secretary, Dickie Arbiter, joins us to reveal all about what really goes on behind those palace walls. They breeze in here as if they'd never left and expecting to pick up where they left off six years ago. And it is nonsense. It is total nonsense. They're blaming everybody for their ills. There was a very fine line that we weren't to walk over. It was made very clear to us by the family that there is private and there is public. And we were only allowed to deal with public. And I don't know why I blurted out. But I said, well, it's a pity the family didn't take note of what was actually going on with the prince and princess. And very quietly, it wasn't anger, very quietly, she said, "The family is my problem, not yours." Wow, Dickie, that's quite the exchange. Welcome to The Royalty with me, Hannah Furness. And me, Camilla Tominey. Dickie, thank you so much for joining us. Anybody who reads this book will understand how you have been at the heart of the royal family crisis management for decades. Can you give us a little rundown of your top hits of things that you have lived through and helped them survive? Well, I suppose the biggest thing I lived through was the Addis Arriba list in 1992. Well, I suppose the biggest thing I lived through was the Addis Arriba list in 1992, when anything that could go wrong did go wrong, and it went wrong for 12 months, culminating not only in the separation of Charles and Diana, but the winds of fire, when an MP, Peter Brook, who was then Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, having been briefed not to say anything, because we weren't hiding anything, we just didn't know the extent of the fire, how it was going to be restored, what the cost would be. Well, I suppose the biggest thing I lived through was the Addis Arriba list in 1992, when anything that could go wrong did go wrong, and it went wrong for 12 months, culminating not only in the separation of Charles and Diana, but the winds of fire, how it was going to be restored, what the cost would be. Well, I suppose the biggest thing I lived through was the Addis Arriba list in 1982, when anything that could go wrong did go wrong, and it went wrong for 12 months, culminating not only in the separation of Charles and Diana, but the winds of fire, how it was going to be restored, what the cost would be. What do you mean by that, that you felt that the Windsors at the time hadn't properly, internally dealt with this growing feud, and that it then spilled out into the headlines, whereas they could have kept it a little longer? It was spilling out daily into the headlines, and I felt that the family should be doing something, and whether they were or not, we weren't told, we weren't allowed to talk about anything in relation to the state of the marriage, as far as we were concerned. We weren't told to be concerned, is that the state of the marriage was okay. As to your mind, Hannah, plus ça change. It's the same with the Sussexes, and we've got this briefing war now between Harriet Megan and the Palace, haven't we? Yeah, more briefing on one side than the other, I would say. So the Palace have done this in a very Palace way. Dickie, please tell us your thoughts, because you are the expert on this. They have laid down the law, I think probably safe to say, with this letter to the Lord Lieutenants, the military, senior stakeholders, key stakeholders, they call it, to explain what Harry and Meghan are doing back in Britain and how people should treat them. So if, for example, Harry rings the Lord Lieutenant's office, which I'm not sure he would, but if he did, I'm going to do a visit to this charity. They need to know, do we call them Your Royal Highness? Do we put on anything extra? Do I need to go and host it somehow, like they would for the Royal Family? They have sent this letter clarifying it, but in it, if you're the Sussexes, it feels to them very pointed. They're going over the ground. Your private citizens. Your private citizens, they feel like this is some kind of dig ahead of their security. And they have thoughts on it. They don't want to be known as private citizens. They want to be known as public figures. What else did they say? But then we come back to the whole, you know, South Park parody that they're on a world privacy tour. Make your minds up. You are private citizens or you are public figures. This is the thing. This is why people think there's a kind of cake-and-eat-it desire. Yeah, but it's not for them to decide whether they're public figures. It's for the public to decide whether they're public figures. They're definitely public figures. Listen, we can all pick them out of a line-out. Come on. Well, we can pick them out of a line-out. But, you know, going back to what Hannah said about this letter that was put out by the Lord Chamberlain, he was only reminding and reiterating what was agreed in January 2020. There's nothing new in it, nothing new at all. And why Harry is whinging, it's always somebody else's fault, never their fault, always somebody else's. But what's your personal experience of Prince Harry? I don't have much experience of him as an adult. I have no experience of him as an adult. As a kid, he was boisterous. He was fun. He was always up for doing things he shouldn't do, being a naughty boy. Was he? Naughtier than William? Yes, he was more upfront than William. William tended to be reserved. He's not so reserved now. No. But Harry was quite wild. I mean, what do you make of the comms around Prince William and Kate resolutely resisting? Reconciliation. The King, as a father, obviously loves his son and his grandchildren and has extended an olive branch. And there's been teas and there's been meetings. And of course, there's been the great return. It's only been one meeting. Okay. William and Kate are digging in their heels saying, no, we don't want to be sucked into the Sussex psychodrama. Thank you very much. But then I'm wondering whether that might adversely affect his comms if it looks as if William is being almost too stubborn about it. I don't think for a moment William is being stubborn. He's being hurt by Harry. There's no question about that. He's taken on the hurt of the criticism for Catherine because they've been quite quite vocal about Catherine and William is very protective of his wife. And I think that's a good thing. He's very much a family oriented man and his family are right up there at the top along with his job. And some days he has. He has difficulty deciding what is more important, the job or the family. He made the decision when she said that she had a cancer. The family was important. So there's been a lot of hurt. There's been hurt to him. There's been hurt to his wife and that rebounds on the rest of the family. And he's just not going to bend until Harry apologizes and means it. Harry seems to think everybody else should apologize. Yes. But I'm not terribly sure for what. Watching it from, from our side of the fence, it has felt to me over the last few years that William actually can shoulder quite a lot of criticism. So you brought up when the princess had cancer before we were told she had cancer, he missed an event and he got a lot of criticism for that and he would rather just absorb that than explain it before he's ready to explain it. And before at the time Catherine was ready to explain it, people who have worked with the Sussexes or have known the Sussexes always tend to say they need to have the last word. And that seems to be the case with this is that there's this idea that they want, that the King should have put in his letter, that they're still beloved members of the family, which is what the Queen did in the Sandringham summit. Did they negotiate that at the time in hindsight, maybe that was one of the conditions for making, for making those announcements they like, and they feel the need, I think, to respond and to correct things that are in the public eye. That's right. It's a phenomenon, but also the kind of the Sussex thing. It's like a game of ping pong, isn't it? Back and forward, back and forward. Whereas you very much get the impression, probably because that's their destiny, that the Waleses are able to play a much longer game, Dickie. I mean, do you think the palace is handling the comms around the Great Return well? Let me give you a little statistic. Can I just add one thing about the two men, because they are men, not boys any longer. They handle things differently. William mourns his mother, but he mourns her privately. Harry mourns her publicly and hangs onto her coattails in everything that he does. It's in his mother's name and he's got to learn to break free. Mourn your mother. Yes, we've all lost parents. We all mourn our lost parents, but we don't do it in public and he's got to stop doing it in public before people can really take him seriously. I'm just going to give you the statistics from a recent survey by YouGov, which is interesting. 16% of Britons would like Harry and Meghan to be working royals again, but 51% disagree. So then that begs the question, has the palace got the comms right on this in light of this kind of they said, they said row that is ongoing? And as you say, the Sussexes can't help but react to every little thing that is done in royal life. But the public are clearly seeing through this. They're seeing it for what it is and saying, no, we don't want you to return to the firm in an official capacity, which therefore suggests, along with the Wales' superior approval rating to the Sussexes, that there has been criticism of palace comms, but maybe the palace have handled Megxit and beyond quite well, actually. I think they have handled it well. They've been upfront. They have been secretive about it. I mean, they haven't been secretive about the King's health. If you go back to when late Queen was alive. We had time and time again, she has mobility issues. We didn't know what these issues were, but the King, when he went to hospital for an enlarged prostate, it was announced. It almost broke down the NHS website with a number of inquiries, then the announcement that he had a cancer, the announcement that Kate was actually, that Catherine was actually forced into making on video that she had a cancer as well. This would never have happened in the Queen's reign. No. I mean, we didn't know that she had cancer until after she died. No. So it's very different. So the comms are handling it well. I mean, the announcement of prostrate and cancer was a masterstroke of communications. And the other thing is that the King is very much on board with communications. Because if you remember, he was told right at the very beginning that he could do his constitutional duty, but he would have to be in Buckingham Palace. He wasn't allowed to go out. So he was allowed to carry on his job as head of state, but not head of nation. Head of nation is gallivanting around the country. And he very purposely in commuting from Clarence House to Buckingham Palace, driving there, being driven there, rolled the windows down so people could see him. So yes, he had a cancer, but he was okay and he was responding to treatment because the treatment has now been reduced. Now you look at him, he's still having treatment and he's dashing around the country like a 25 year old. There's a theme here, isn't there? Of sort of steadiness and sturdiness and leadership and in a country that sometimes feels a bit wobbly at the moment. Yeah. What is it? Eight prime ministers in 10 years or something? Exactly. Sussex Circus, as we must call it nowadays. Cancer in the family, not one, but two senior members of the family. Do you think that the public sort of craves or needs some kind of steady leadership? How did the royal family learn what the public want and decide how they respond? They learn by going around the country, doing walkabouts and talking to them. And we have today something that we've never, would never have seen under the Queen's reign, King being hugged. Yes. But I remember there was a New Zealand, I think it was a hockey team at a reception at Buckingham Palace. New Zealand women's rugby team. And we were all hugging him. Yeah. I saw him hugged actually when we went to Kosovo and he was extremely popular there with the war widows because he had tried to raise their plight. 5,000 husbands, sons, brothers. Always. Always still missing. Never found. And he was mobbed. And it was actually quite an emotional moment, but he's quite tactile. But you're right, Dickie, you would no sooner have hugged Queen Elizabeth II. But you wouldn't have hugged Charles in the days when. Well, is this a good thing? Do we want touchy feely royals or do we want royals that are on a pedestal and slightly at a distance? We don't want royals who are aloof and at a distance. We want royals that we can communicate to and he's shown that he can be communicated. Look at the first day. He came back to Buckingham Palace after his mother had passed. He went on a walkabout. A woman pulled him forward to give him a peck on the cheek. His security didn't run forward to stop it. He just let it happen. And that was the sign of how his reign would be, that he would be quite amenable to being hugged, to having been given a peck on the cheek. Somebody tried to snog him once when he stepped out of the sea in Sydney, didn't they? Do you remember that famous image? Yeah. He got out of the water, this woman in a bikini. Yeah. That was in the 1970s. I don't. Did it turn out she was paid or encouraged somehow by photographers who wanted this Bond shot? Who would have thought that the media would be responsible for such a sting, just to get an image? We couldn't possibly comment on that. Honestly, Dickie. Do we think the monarchy is in good shape for the next few years? Because we also have surveys suggesting that younger people are particularly disinterested. I think that's the problem, isn't it? You can have people who are arch-royalists and that's great, and you can have people that are arch-republicans and that's another matter. But isn't the biggest threat to royalty ennui and boredom and I don't care either way? It's an interesting point you raise. interest in the monarchy is generational. Young people, they've got too many other things on their mind. They're on TikTok, they're on their phone, they're texting, they're doing all sorts of things. By the time they get to their 30s, they're sort of, oh, I suppose they're all right. By the time they get their 40s and 50s, they're very much interested in the monarchy. So it moves the generation. But to talk about how's the monarchy going to look in the future is a very interesting point, because the king is going to be 78 in November. The queen is nearing 80, nearer 80 than the king. William and Catherine are going to be, they're in their 40s. Middle-aged. Middle-aged. Edward and Sophie are in their 60s. So by the time we get to the next reign, that's William. William could well be in his 60s. I hope it's later rather than sooner, but he could well be in his 60s. By the time George comes to the throne, he could be nearing, nearer 50 than 40. So, and what's the backup? Well, he'll then have children. And also we've got all of the time before George takes the throne, Hannah and I were saying earlier, I mean, that picture of him at Eton, that boy is an attractive looking lad. And I just looked at that photograph of him at Eton and you wrote a brilliant newsletter on it saying, oh, hasn't he grown? And that's absolutely the sentiment. You see a boy becoming a man before your very eyes. And that's the thing. It makes those children more captivating and interesting. But of course, the parents want to protect them from too much media focus. That is what I found so interesting about George at Eton is it's the first time I saw him sort of in a semi-public role. He's still a private child. He's going to school. Those photographs, he looked like he didn't mind posing for them. He looked like he was enjoying himself. When he walked across the schoolyard at Eton, he was a little bit ahead of mum and dad. He was the one who lent in for the handshake and made the small talk. He was kind of leading the way. And it's the first time. It's the first time we've seen that. We used to see this shy little boy. And I used to feel, goodness, is this the right thing to do sometimes? Having him sort of cling to his parents' hands. He was a lot more up front than his father was when he was. Was he? Yes. Do you remember that, Dickie? Tell us. I remember that well, that he was a lot more up front. He's not shy like his father was at the same age. His father has developed. Yes. Has developed with age. And he was living through a pretty rotten time with his parents at war. One living down at Highgrove. The other were living at Kensington Palace. And the two boys being shunted between the two. It wasn't a happy scenario. But George looks very happy. I think he's very happy to be at Eton. And this is the start of the children flying the nest. Yes. Oh, don't say that. Well. My youngest is 30. I'm trying to hold on to these children for as long as possible. But you make a point. All I'm saying is if you want to capture a generation, then obviously you have to do it with similar aged people. And if the George becomes 30, then you have to do it with children of similar age. I don't know. I'm trying to think of examples like the Timothy Chalamet of his era. I know that's a stretch. But do you remember that period where William, people had posters of Prince William up on their walls? Will's mania. Including possibly Kate Middleton, although she denies that. So that could just be an interesting one to watch. It's like the Beckham kids or anyone's kids, frankly, you sort of watch them grow up in the media gaze. And as they get older, they seem more relatable to their own generation and all the rest of it. Let's just move on slightly. Dickie. Tell us about your interactions with Prince Andrew. You really want to know? Yeah. All right. It's in the book. I know. It's in the book. Got to read the book. I was in the office. There was a colleague there who just started two weeks before, who was going to be Andrew's press secretary. Anyway, Andrew phoned and I picked up the phone. It was a garden party happening. It was a garden party for the usual party. 8,000 odd people. Amongst them were something like 100 vicars who were there for a conference that happens every 10 years at Lambeth Palace. And he said, I've got a good idea for a photograph. I said, yes. He said, get some chairs in the garden. And I will tell, because it'll be a good picture of Her Majesty, always not my mother, Her Majesty, with all the clergy. So you get that sorted out. And when you've done it, you've got to get it sorted out. And when you've done it, tell me and I will tell Her Majesty. And I said, no. I said, I beg your pardon. I said, it's not your garden party. If Her Majesty wants chairs out for a photograph, she will tell the master. The master will tell me and I'll organize it. But until that happens, it's not going to happen. Bet that went down well. It did go down well. It went down with the phone. Did it? He slammed the phone down. Oh, my God. So I picked up the phone and my colleague said, what are you going to do? I said, I'm going to call him back. What are you going to say to him? Listen. And I called him back. And he said, yes, what do you want? Dickie, I'm so glad you weren't around when. I'm so glad I wasn't ringing you to ask difficult questions. It's terrifying. I said, don't you ever slam the phone down on me like that again. And I slammed the phone down. Did you? Yes. Dickie. And my colleague said, you'll get fired for that. And I said, no, you won't tell anybody. Cowards and bullies don't tell when they've been had. Oh, my God. Imagine. Andrew, have you ever heard one of these? Bang. I bet he has, actually. He said we've heard them frequently. Let's be honest. He wasn't your favourite royal. Who was your favourite royal? We're taking the Queen out because that's everyone's favourite royal. Who's the favourite royal? I had several favourites. Go on. For different reasons. I liked Charles. He was honest and he would listen to advice. Not necessarily take it, but he would listen and weigh it up. Unfortunately, when he was Prince of Wales, he tended to listen to the last. The last person that spoke to him. So he was a favourite. Diana was a favourite. I got on well with her. I'd had tea with both of them three days before the wedding. Just the three of us. How lovely. And we had biscuits. Yeah. What was she like then? She was just a girl, practically. She was 20. She was very naive. I said, I suppose you're terrified of this. She said, yeah, it's a bit daunting. And it would be a bit daunting because people were already camping out on the Mall when you've got probably about a million people. A million people lining the route and hundreds of millions watching on television. And even Charles was concerned about it. Yes, he'd been brought up with a grand ceremonial, but this was something that he'd never really experienced. So he felt daunted as well. When you saw them then, at the very beginning of their. Oh, they were tactile. Were they? Were they in love then? They were in love. Because he came out with that ridiculous, whatever love means. But they loved each other, didn't they? I'm going to apologise for him on that one because the royals are always brought together and brought up not to show emotion. I mean, you go back to Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, go back to the Queen, go back to all of them. They never showed emotion. When Mount Batten was assassinated, there were dry eyes. Charles had a lump in his throat when he was delivering the eulogy in Westminster Abbey, but there was a lump. Well, think about William and Harry following the coffin. They had to stow it. So they were taught not to show emotion. It's only since the death of the Queen that this whole thing of emotion has been expressed when Charles calling Camilla darling. And Camilla will take his arm, which would never have happened before. I mean, you cast your mind back, it would never have happened before. They're more open, they're more human. That's tricky. William and Kate rolling around on that video. In the sand dunes, yeah. It's a generational thing. Yeah. Charles also, I think, has a personal instinct. He sort of deflects and he quite often makes a final comment. His press office have to sort of scramble. So he'll often say, you know, I'm looking forward to come back if God lets me. Yes, if I'm still alive. And then everybody goes, no, no, he doesn't mean that. He doesn't mean that. Yeah, so whatever love means, it's him being a bit philosophical. It's a sort of strange instinct. Yeah, but you see, whatever love means, don't show emotion. And him being bounced into something like that, he really didn't know how to handle it. Yes. But at that tea, they were tactile. They were darling this and darling that. And they did love each other at the beginning. But you know, no marriage is made in heaven. Marriage is a job. And you've got to work at it. So romantic, Dickie. No, I, yes. It is a job because, you know, dare I say, the lust and the passion wears off. You've got children who interfere. Yes. And the whole family has got to work at it. How many times have you been married, Dickie? I beg your pardon? I said, how many times have you been married, Dickie? I've been married twice. That. Second time for 42 years. There you are. There you are. All right. I think we need Dickie back for a. Marriage counseling. Life couches. Yeah, life couches. No, but it's true. Marriage is a job. Bringing up children is a job. And it's certainly a job. And it's a tough job. I know. But I think if you'd been in the middle of the War of the Whales, you've pretty much seen it all. Dickie, let's give your book a final plug. Okay. Dickie Arbiter, former Royal Press Secretary, on duty with the royals, the inside story of modern monarchy. And it's out now. And it's been absolutely delightful to hear your memories of working with this extraordinary family. Thank you for inviting me. It's been fun. Thank you.