Allison Pelissier - Lucia N°03 Light Experience

Hello and welcome back to Psychedelics Today. This is Kyle. In this episode, I chat with Alison Polissier from The Traveling Light Machine. That's their company. It's a Lucia Light No. 3. It's a hypnagogic light machine. A little bit about Alison. She holds a master's in international education and development and a bachelor's in political economics. She also holds a 200-hour yoga training certification as well as a children's yoga certification. And she's also traveled across the world and has worked in many capacities as an academic teacher, a textbook author, and meditation yoga teacher, project manager, and a developer. And she is currently traveling around the U.S. with her partner and business partner, Zach, sharing this experience with the Lucia Light Machine. So, how I came across this was actually kind of synchronistic. I was in Vermont helping facilitate a Holotropic Breathwork workshop weekend with the Gibsons up at Dream Shadow. And a fan of the show ended up coming to the retreat and didn't know that. But ironically, they were also cousins of my roommate. And they were also cousins of my roommate. And they were telling me that they were hosting some folks that had this light machine. And it was really intriguing because I remember at Psychedelic Science that there was this booth that had this light machine and everybody was talking about how trippy it was. And I didn't get to do it, but I think Joe ended up doing it and said he had a cool experience. So, I got really curious and I was like, huh, well, that's interesting. There was some folks out at Psychedelic Science doing that. And he told me that the same people were coming to his house. And so, I felt like I couldn't pass up the offer and went over to Grant's house after the workshop later in the week and met up with Allison, her partner, Zach. And they gave me an experience with this hypnagogic light machine. It was really cool. And I got to sit down and talk with Allison afterwards about my experience. And I was like, wow, that's really cool. And I got to also to learn more about how this light machine works, how it was developed. And it's pretty basic in the sense that it's just, I think it's a halogen light with some LED lights and it flashes in intensity. You have eyes closed and, you know, I had all sorts of beautiful colors and visualizations. It was a really neat experience. But we'll dive into that into the episode. And I hope you really enjoy it. I thought it was a pretty interesting experience. It's a little different, I guess, from our other content, but also really cool. And it was fun to, you know, have an experience and sit down in person and to do some recording versus, you know, being on Skype and on the computer. So, let's see some updates. We have the integration course that Joe and I are trying to retweak and relaunch. In July. So, stay tuned for some updates and info about signing up for that. Joe has some breathwork events coming up. He's got one in Lyons, Colorado, the back to balance on June 23rd. And I believe that is a combination of all sorts of different practices. And he will be facilitating breathwork there. And he also has a workshop coming up on July 8th. You can check out more of his workshops and info and register at breckbreath.com. And if anybody is in the northern New Jersey area, I'm trying to just put on a little online meetup. So, we got one scheduled for June 14th. It's a Wednesday. And I believe it starts at 7 p.m. to 8 p.m. just on Zoom and just figure you get a conversation going. You can check that out on our Facebook group. There is a little event thing. You can sign up there. There's a little ticket link. We'll bring it to a Zoom registration. So, that if anybody's in the area that wants to just get together and chat, that'd be awesome. And I think that's about it. I don't have any workshops coming up. I am going to be outside of Lowell this weekend for the B.E.N., the Boston Entheogenic Network. And if anybody's in the area, I'm trying to just put a little breathwork workshop with them. Other than that, I'm planning stages. So, stay tuned. Hopefully, I will be doing some more stuff around the New Jersey area. And let's see. Yeah. So, I hope you guys enjoy this episode. If you like it or if you really like the podcast and want to support us, leaving a review on iTunes would be awesome, on Stitcher. And you can also leave a little review on Facebook. And I'll see you in the next one. You know, leave us a comment there. If you have any questions, feel free to send some questions in at psychedelicstodayemail at gmail. We also created a Facebook group. You can check that out on our Facebook page. I think it's just called psychedelicstodaygroup. Pretty simple. You can check that out. Just a new way to do a little bit of communication with folks since, you know, communicating on the Facebook page doesn't always work very well. So, if you have any questions, the group is helpful for that. And yeah, leave us a comment on, you know, the website on this particular episode if you have any questions. And yeah, thanks so much for listening. And I hope you enjoy the show. Welcome to Psychedelics Today. This is Kyle. I'm on a Vermont tour right now. I just finished up doing some breathwork down at the Gibsons. And I met this guy, Grant. And I wrote him a book called Psychedelics Today. And ironically, he listens to the show. And I used to be roommates with his cousin. So, weird synchronicity there. And he invited Allison Polissier from Lucia number three, correct? And I just had a great session with this light and really want to just like highlight some of the work that you guys are doing. And you're kind of on like a little light tour, which is cool. I'm excited about that. So, give me a little background about like what the light is and how you got started with this. Yeah, definitely. Thanks for having me here. This is fun. So, the Lucia number three is a hypnagogic light machine. It was developed in Austria by a neurologist and psychiatrist. And it was actually following kind of a near-death experience. So, the psychiatrist slash psychologist, he had a really incredible experience when he was young where he nearly died. And he went to the light, you know, which a lot of people talk about with near-death experiences. And it was really profound for him. It really changed his whole way of being and acting and feeling towards the world. Beforehand, he had felt really lost and like he didn't have a place here. And afterwards, he realized that he was here to serve others. And he always kind of was looking for a way to replicate that experience without having people have to go through, you know, such intensity and trauma of nearly dying. So, he was looking for different ways to work with it. So, he actually started with hypnotherapy and just like a solid light that he would bring closer to people's faces. And they would imagine like going into the light or things like that. Interesting. Yeah. And then he teamed up with his friend, a neurologist named Dirk Prockel, who recommended maybe using some flickering light. So, like a type of brain entrainment that would go with it. And so, they combined the solid and flickering light, which was the first time it had been done like that and found amazing results. And they were actually surprised and amazed at the depth of experience that they were able to create with that. And that was birthed the Lucia number three. So, it was Lucia originally, which means light in Italian, Lucia. And then it's the third version because the first version they made in an espresso maker. They were just like hooking up LEDs and halogen and trying to get it working there. And then they, you know, the second one was kind of a prototype. And then the third one, they got a version that really felt like it and it came to life. So. And how old is this technology? Oh, that was in 2009 when it was. Oh, so this is pretty recent. Officially released. Yeah. Engelbert Winkler, who's the psychiatrist, he did research for decades and he interviewed all kinds of people with near-death experience. And he, you know, has a lot of his practice as well as a psychologist, psychiatrist, and he works in law and rights for young children in Austria. So, he has quite a variety of things going on, but this is kind of his, you know, big soul project that he's been really proud of and really invested in lots of different ways. And how long have you been doing this work for? So, I first found out about the Lucia number three in, London. I was doing my master's and a friend of mine invited me to an art gallery. And that was probably about five years ago now. And I went in and he was like, oh, you got to try this light thing and didn't really say anything about it. And I was going through a pretty rough period of my life at that point. I was pretty depressed and had some kind of trauma coming up that was preventing me from sleeping. I was having nightmares and all kinds of stuff. And I wasn't really like myself. I felt like I was struggling to be present in my life, which was pretty unlike me because I'm a pretty happy, easygoing person generally. So, they had me sit down and try this light. And I had such a powerful experience. I actually reconnected with my father who had passed away and saw all these incredible things. And the visual experience just made me so joyful. So, I went. A whole range of emotions. And I just felt like a different person when I came out of it. And I slept that night. For the first time in like eight months, I slept through the night with no nightmares. And I haven't actually had any of those nightmares ever since. And it was like one of those things where I was the kind of person I was like, oh, if it was a healing thing, I would probably be like, oh, I'm fine. I got this. I don't need to be healed. There's nothing wrong with me. I'm just like having a hard time, but I can get through this. I've gotten through this. I've gotten through a lot. And yeah, so, it kind of snuck up on me like that. And I think that's one of the reasons it was so powerful. I had no expectations and I just really let go in it and was really amazed by the results. So, that was about five years ago at that point. There was only one Lucia and actually it was in Vermont. But it was, yeah, it was in this tiny, it was this guy who works with different lighting systems and stuff. So, he wasn't actually, he was just like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. So, he had a full-time business and he kind of had a Lucia, but he wasn't really bringing it around that much or anything like that. So, I was trying to find a way to get a hold of one and I ended up buying his from him. And he let me do a payment plan, all this stuff, which was amazing because it's definitely not a cheap thing. It's an investment, energetic investment. And did you drive up here to Vermont to pick that up? No, he actually, he just mailed it to me. It was like a full universe supporting trust moment where, you know, I made this website. I was like so passionate. I was telling everyone I knew like, you got to try this light thing. And they're like, what are you talking about? Like, it sounds like crazy. I'm like, no, it's amazing. Like we, like we need them here in the US. Like, you know, I was just so passionate about it. I wasn't giving up. And then, yeah. And then he, I ended up buying his from him. And then that was the beginning, the birth of the traveling light machine project, which is what my partner Zach and I do. And we travel all over to see the light. And we kind of let the light guide us. We don't do any advertising or anything like that. So we just allow people to organically find it one way or another and reach out to us. And then we follow the interest and we get to travel all over and share this amazing experience. That's really awesome. And you said you do have a stationed light in Colorado. Yeah, there is one in Boulder. It's a friend of ours, actually. Oh, okay, cool. Chuck, he runs a vibrational healing studio. So it's with vibrational boards that go at different frequencies and like massage tables and stuff. And he actually combines that with the Lucia for a really awesome experience. That's really cool. And you said you have your master's. Is that in, like, have you been on a healing path before you came across this light or, you know, what was your master's in? It's so interesting. It really kind of changed my trajectory. I, my master's is in international education and development. Okay. So very different. Yeah. So different. I mean, I feel like my whole life, I really wanted to help people, but then I kind of realized how much ego was in that, you know, in one way or another. And, you know, even doing that program was enlightening in some ways, but also extremely frustrating in other ways, you know, seeing like donor money and, you know, what people's, you know, desires are and like how these huge nonprofits are just paying all their money to, to staff and to certain like bureaucratic things and not actually like, so little of it actually reaches the people who need it. And, you know, they're kind of imposing programs that are culturally inappropriate and causing a lot more problems often, you know, by like choosing one group to give money to and not another. And then suddenly you have like, you know, a cultural dispute that was never even there before. So it's like how, you know, so that was kind of my whole thing. And like, I worked in a few different countries and realized that, yeah, it's more about holding space for someone to have their own experience. Who's ready for that. And, you know, to be there to like say, yeah, like support them, but not to try to do it for them or to, you know, tell them what's best for them. Cause everyone only knows what's best for themselves and they can only do it when they're ready for it. So, yeah. So it was kind of a big shift working with the light. I was like, oh wow, this is awesome. Like this is the next level. Cause you can be there with someone having this incredible experience. And, you know, if I enjoy being able to be the person who's holding this space, but you know, it's all them. And that's what the Lucia is. It's like a cosmic reflection and you get to kind of go explore yourself, but it's a totally safe space. It's not like a psychedelic experience where you're in 12 hours deep and you just want it to stop and it won't stop, you know, buy the ticket and take the ride. Yeah. Exactly. And that's the thing. I mean, a lot of people, um, you know, have had negative experiences with psychedelics or are afraid of that potential of letting go and not losing control, which, you know, people who are into psychedelics are like, that's, you know, that's the magic, you know, but it's, it can be a scary thing, you know, for people who have never experienced that before. So I think the Lucia is amazing experience because it's kind of somewhere in between. It's like an experience that's, I mean, very psychedelic in a lot of ways, but also much more grounded and, um, in some ways, and you're able to stop at any time. So it's like, Right. safe space. And it's, it's not something you're ingesting. It's, it's all you. So you can't say like, Oh, that was awesome because I took mushrooms and those mushrooms are like amazing. It's like, no, you're amazing. You know? And it's like the mushrooms bring that out in you, but like, this is even more direct. Like you didn't take anything like this is all you. So. Yeah. And that's why Joe and I really like breath work too. Um, you know, after holding space for people in breath work, they're like, wow, that was so awesome. Thank you. Thank you. And it's like, no, really thank yourself for showing up and doing, the work because, you know, we just provide a space for, to play music and providing a safe space for somebody to process whatever emotion comes up. And so, yeah, it's a really cool technique to have light or use the breath work for like an alternative for psychedelics. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it's really interesting because so Joe and I were out at psychedelic science and we heard about this. Um, you guys were out there as well. Yeah. And I was really curious, and I'm not too sure if Joe did it and Joe's not here. We're recording in person, which is cool because usually we're on Skype with other folks. I can't remember if he actually did the light. Um, but you know, just walking around psychedelic science, people are just raving about it, talking about it. And I was like, wow, this is really, really interesting. Like I want to do it, but you know, it just never happened. And it's just so synchronistic that I'm like, helping lead breath work in Vermont. And you know, this guy grants like, oh man, I I'm having these people with Lucille light come to my house. And I'm thinking, huh, really? Like, yeah, I think they were at psychedelic science too. I'm like, how the hell did you get them to come to your house? Like, I don't know. It just didn't make any sense, but this is really cool. Yeah. It's a small world after all. Yeah. No, it's, it's definitely, um, it's really, that's what's kind of fun about what we're doing as well as we can kind of flow to all different places. You know, people are really interested in it and they've, there's nowhere around and you know, there's about, there's about 45 Lucia's in the U S now. Um, so there are places to go to. And you know, I think that, I mean, I guess I would say about half of those are personal use, but you know, on, you know, our website, we're starting to list like all the places where you can go for a session. And that's what I really recommend, you know, cause a lot of people write to us and they're like, I want to buy one of these lights. And, and that's awesome, but it's a huge investment on a lot of levels. And, you know, it's also, like you said, like holding space is such an important thing. And as you know, you don't want to just like, and the doctors who created this didn't want people to just buy this and do it themselves and not know how to integrate what happened or, you know, have these like really deep experiences, but not be energetically safe, you know, or like, you know, it's too much. You can't stop it. If you're just giving it to yourself, like, you know, that's where we're here for each other. And the human connection is one of the most powerful elements in the world, you know, it's like technology is amazing and can really facilitate, like, you know, help facilitate amazing experiences. But at the end of the day, it's you connecting with yourself or you connecting with someone else. And, you know, if you just like mail order some like light machine to your house, maybe you'll like use it a couple of times, but like, it's the same thing, you know, it's like, if you have no one to share that, you know, experience with, it's a different thing. So we really encourage people to go if you're interested in this type of experience to go somewhere that has one and experience it with a facilitator and you know and we're our the lucia is uh the original light machine um and the really most intense one the deepest experiences but also providing like from really gentle all the way to really extreme um and so that's what a facilitator is really there for and we're definitely looking for people to help join this mission because there's not really enough around but really more for people to be interested in being facilitators rather than seeing this as just like a training to know how to operate and hold space yeah how'd you get involved in facilitating yeah so facilitating was kind of a journey for me because in the beginning i was giving a very light training i would say considering what people go through yeah exactly yeah totally i didn't even think that um but yeah uh it was a really basic beginning and then i wow came to see a lot of things about myself like i realized a lot of things about myself like i had this thing that i thought more intense was better and i didn't even realize that was like in me until i started giving sessions and realizing like some people don't need like that crazy amount of intensity like sometimes you just need to be like you just need a really gentle warm welcoming space to like be and like a break from all the intensity you know so it was really i think the first year that i was working with delicia i learned a lot and um you know i've been supported by different mentors and had amazing conversations with all kinds of people through different ways of holding space like shamanically or through different traditions and yeah and zach and i are really interested in taking a you know breath work training course and all of that because we want to go to the next level with that but um now we offer trainings ourselves based on the you know years of knowledge and experience and we have of working with people and seeing the huge variety of reactions um and kind of experiences that people have and practicing giving you know holding space but it is very similar to you know what we're talking about like holding space for psychedelic experiences in a lot of ways so cool yeah there's a lot of it seemed like just some of these conversations make me think there's a lot of similarities between this work and some of the breath work that we do um one part is about doing it yourself and then the other part is about doing it yourself and then the other part is about doing it myself there's folks like oh can i just like learn breath work and do it by myself you know you could but i don't know how safe that would be um like we really encourage people to do it in a group process because that's one of the key components of breath work is the tribe the people the group holding that space for you and also the facilitators like you know i'm i'm trained in breath work but i don't really do it by myself because you can get into some pretty hairy kind of situations where you know if you're doing some double bookkeeping and you're reprocessing some trauma i mean that could be really scary by yourself and not having somebody there um yeah so the group process thing and you know facilitation definitely in that similarity and also you're describing with the intensity um you know there's a lot of theory behind the breath work that we give about transpersonal experiences maybe reliving past traumas perinatal and birth and when we describe that people want to get have those experiences and then when people start doing breath work if for their first time like nothing happened quote unquote um they're like oh my hands got tingly nothing really happened and it's like well something did happen there and maybe that's just what you needed maybe you didn't need to process a really deep cathartic experience sometimes it is just being in there and feeling that relaxation and just kind of sitting in the moment yeah and becoming aware of yourself and exactly like a lot of people there was a meme on the internet for a while that had a picture of the lucia light and it said dmt without dmt and you know it was this whole thing we got like hundreds of people reaching out curious and like a lot of people setting up events with us and then they tell all their friends it's the same thing as dmt it's just like a light you know and it's like well is it you know like and if we look deeper into that like what does that mean same thing with breath work you can release that and you can release that and you can release dmt naturally right and even people who try ayahuasca it's like sometimes they'll have a really gentle ayahuasca experience where she's just holding you like you're just in that energy and it's not like you know some people don't throw up like everyone has a totally different experience and and that's the thing with the light too it's like if you have these crazy expectations about like what's gonna happen like chances are it's just gonna be relaxing because you're what you need to let go of is your expectations and you're not gonna be able to let go of those expectations in life right you know it's like until you let go of those like you're not gonna get anywhere because it's like the mind is so tricky and if we're like listening to what the mind thinks we should be doing or the way the mind is analyzing everything then it really constricts what's possible in our reality and like if we want to heal those deeper things or like have those deeper experiences it's not going to be coming from the mind and i think that's you know a really key component to all of these kind of this work is really like getting out of the mind and into the body into the body and like feeling it through there and into the heart which like sees things on a whole different level you know and really following that and trusting that and that's the scariest thing is like trusting what your heart says you're like whoa whoa whoa yeah yeah definitely doing heart work is really intense yeah but that's funny that meme definitely uh circled around psychedelic science because when i was walking around like some folks uh were like you gotta check out this light like it's some it's like dmt like the bright flashing lights and these geometric shapes and so you know that's what i was thinking the whole time like i would you know i was coming across this like huh this is really interesting like a light producing maybe like dmt in the mind and producing these experiences but yeah it's a funny meme yeah well and it's true i mean like there is a study being done right now as we speak in spain where they are testing to see you know your pineal glands at the center of your brain it's little pine cones and they're like they're like they're like they're like they're bone shaped you know gland that does you know helps regulate melatonin but all sorts of other processes as well and they believe that it does release dmt and the tricky thing is we haven't been able to prove that yet right so you know we think it's kind of funny because it's like again humans and our like trans you know our fixation with form we're always looking for a form like oh it must be the the pineal gland and you know like all of this where it's like well it's this huge release huge experience and hopefully they can prove that but it you know it disappears in your bloodstream within minutes and it's such you know it's a very slippery kind of thing on the physical level so so this is different research than uh what rick strassman's doing yeah so he's i mean that's more um you know he's trying to see if it does come from the pineal gland you know and a lot of people are like oh he proved that and it's like no he theorized that you know thanks for pointing that out because i think that's a lot of misconception that people describing dmt they're saying it's produced in the pineal gland but you know he he's kind of retracted and said that was a hypothesis and actually a large percentage of dmt is actually found in the human lung yeah and so we don't really know if it's produced in the pineal gland it's a hypothesis but you know it's all in the body oh totally and it's again it's kind of again our fixation on like oh it's the substance that the body's producing it's like okay you're having like a crazy like spiritual experience that's so deep and so beautiful and you're still trying to like reduce it down you know it's like to the physical and like trying to understand exactly how it works through the mind and it's like i feel like if i've learned anything it's like our mind is just not capable in a lot of ways of understanding what's going on i mean if you start thinking about quantum physics and like all of these alternate realities and all these possibilities for things your mind gets overwhelmed your mind is like whoa back up like i'm out of here i can't really think that way like i want to keep it simple i want to like have a really you know concrete understanding of this so that i can feel safe and a lot of this we're not feeling safe i mean what happens in a dmt experience is like you're going through different dimensions you know and seeing all these things like how can you bring that back to the physical it's like okay it must be this like dmt thing it's like can we just like let go of like what you know how that happens in the physical and like look at how crazy and amazing it is that we're able to go through all of these things and have these experiences and just know that it's something we might not be able to explain ever and that's okay you know and i think it's the same thing with light people have all kinds of experiences everything from very physical experiences like oh i had a trauma in my knee and i felt this tingling in my knee and it's like wow yeah our body is you know made up of um light you know there's research being done now that's showing like on the biological level that we communicate through the living matrix of light and that's like biophotonics you know they're able to change what cells expressions are through blinking of light so there's all kinds of stuff happening like even on the cellular level then if you take it up to like the energetic level you know it's like wow how different do you feel if you just walk out in the sun on a sunny day and like feel that on your body versus like going inside and sitting like in a horrible like you know lighting you know it's just like oh god like everyone knows that feeling. You're just like, Oh, body is like really resisting that. So light is, you know, affecting us on so many different levels. And if you want, you can reduce it to like, Oh, DMT. But I think it's really, you know, more than that in a lot of ways. And also, you know, just nothing in life can be really reduced that easily. It's just something that the mind's always looking for to, to feel safe and feel like, Oh, now I know. Right. I'm comfortable now. Yeah. As humans, it's like, we need to know two things. Do you know off the top of the hand, um, what that research is over in Spain? Like if people are interested, like who's conducting that research or if it's in a university, just where to look in case people want to look that up. Yeah. Um, it's a neurological Institute. I'll have to look up the address. Maybe I can give it to you and then you can show it up online. I don't know if they've published anything about it yet, but there have been some. Some studies done with the Lucia, um, about reliably going into an altered state of consciousness. And then they're coming out with a study for the breaking convention this year. Do you know about the great breaking convention? Yeah. Um, one of our teachers, Lenny Gibson is actually going to be over there. Um, he's on a philosophical panel with somebody that we interviewed, uh, Peter Schersted H sorry if I mispronounced that, but I believe that's how it's pronounced. Um, we just had him on talking about psychedelics and philosophy. So yeah, it looks like a really awesome conference. I wish I could go. That's coming up in end of June, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to be at boom festival in Portugal at the same time. So we're sorry, not boom. It's being every other year, more focused on the healing side of things. But yeah, so that there's some research coming out there, which I'm not allowed to disclose what it is, but keep your ears peeled for that. And well, you can give you that website anyway, and for the breaking convention, all kinds of talks. And then there's also been research done specifically around creativity and how, um, design students have benefited massively from experiencing the Lucia and applying that to their work. Like a lot of people described how they just went to a whole different place with their design that they hadn't even thought about. So, you know, this is cool. There's actually research behind this product, the light, it's not just some thing. Somebody made it up and kind of in the new agey realm, like there are people researching the effects of it and. Yeah, totally. And I mean, again, it's like the doctors, it's invented by doctors and neurologists and psychiatrists. So, you know, they have a rich history in the allopathic medicine side, but are also very interested in, you know, energy and like what happens beyond that. And they say like a lot of the, you know, they could do specific research on the ways of like some of the ways it works, but they almost don't want to on a lot of ways. Right. Right. Because then again, it's limiting what could happen to you. Cause then that's definitely what I found is that every person has a totally different experience. And, you know, some people are like, wow, like, yeah, I'm, I'm just one of those people who's going 24, seven and I feel so relaxed afterwards. Like I feel just like centered and grounded and like, I don't need to like run around. And then other people are like, yeah, I've had zero energy. And then I did the light and I'm just like, so aware and awake and like alive and excited. So it's like, okay, what are we trying to prove here with theory? Like that it wakes you up or, you know, you can't really, every person is so individual and that's something, you know, with this kind of, I would say more modern medicine, which is combining a lot of the ancient medicine with current scientific theory and understanding modern medicine is that basically now, like, you know, it's not about, you know, taking something to have a specific reaction. It's more about balancing what's going on for you and like coming back to a center point. And that's what the light really seems to be doing most more than anything, you know? And so if, yeah, you need to go connect with someone who has to weigh or like, or if you just need to really relax and like, or if you just need to be wowed by like the beauty that's there that you kind of forgot about, you know, and take a break, you know, like meditation style from thinking, you know, it's like all of those things, it's everything. It's like, and everyone is different and every time you do it is different. So you might just be really relaxed the first time and the next time go through all kinds of portals and have crazy, you know, other experiences. So it's just, every time it's different. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely had a wide range of experience and at the end I felt really energized, but yeah, before I jump, I definitely want to process a little bit about my experience, but the one other thing that came up when you were talking about like cell memory or in the cellular level. And have you ever read Jeremy Narby's the cosmic serpent? Oh yeah. Yeah. He talks about how like, uh, you know, his whole theory on DNA and then gets down to like, uh, like the photons flashing and that might be like the actual, like ayahuasca experience of like the light shining from these, the DNA and I don't know, it just popped in my head when you were talking about that. Yeah, definitely. It's so funny. That's like exactly what I underlined and everything. And I'm like, this is the light, this is what the light machine's doing, you know? And it is really interesting, you know, how that comes together. Like, you know, um, I would definitely recommend reading that book if anyone wants to check it out, but yeah. And that's what it is like biophotonics. And now this guy like proved like this living matrix. I'll give you his information as well that, you know, these, and he's just like a biologist and he wasn't really thinking to discover this at all, but he said, you know, how can we process things? It has to be faster than like we, we touch something and then they say like, oh, it's just a reflex. You pull your hand away, but he's like, no, it's a communication through all of your cells that doesn't have to go to your brain every time, but it's like this other communication that's faster, you know, it's through light instead of like energy impulse. So it's really interesting research. And I mean, a lot of, you know, the ancient Vedic understanding is that we're beings of light, you know, and now we're kind of proving that on all these levels and bringing back, you know, the old and the new to be like, yes, we are. And there's actually one other study that I think you might find interesting. Um, they haven't done it with humans yet, but with mice, um, there's this really amazing radio lab podcast about it actually, but, um, uh, basically it's about Alzheimer's disease and how people are with mice with Alzheimer's disease who are given 40 Hertz of flickering light for an hour a day, started recalling their memory and all of these things started coming back to them and started reversing like early Alzheimer's and stuff. So it's actually in human trials right now, but you know, that's a certain frequency of light. Whereas Lucia uses, you know, a variety, there's about a hundred, 150 different programs. So you can do all different kinds of things, but that's just kind of touching on the iceberg of like how light can affect us in ways that we don't even think about. That's so cool. That there's yeah. Research going on about this. Yeah. I'll definitely have to put that in the show notes and check out. Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's called the radio lab bringing gamma back. Oh, cool. Nice. Yeah. That's the gamma frequency event. So is there, uh, any, I'd say maybe like clinical application of this? Um, so we're definitely staying away from making it a medical device for a number of reasons. I mean, basically with a medical device, you need protocols and protocols that say that, Oh, okay. You are depressed. So you need exactly this much light. You need a lot of light over these many days and this many sessions. And again, while that kind of satisfies the left brain worry, like, oh, okay, now I know what I need. It's not really what you need. You know, it's like everyone is totally different. Like maybe you just need one session. Maybe you need 10 sessions. Like maybe you want to really do this for three months at once a week and see like how you shift every time, like every person is different. So, um, again, it's like if it becomes any kind of medical situation. Yeah. Then it's really limiting the application and changing the way that we would be working with it. Um, so no. Cool. All right. Yeah. How do you promote it? Is it just kind of like self-discovery? Yeah. It's pretty much self-discovery. It's word of mouth. Um, people have like, you know, maps, it was like wildfires, like, okay, the first couple hours was pretty quiet. And then everyone who tried it told their friends and they told their friends and then suddenly we were busy for, you know, 8:00 AM to 1:00 AM in the morning, like the whole day, we were super busy. So it really perpetuates itself in like really beautiful ways. And like I said, we don't advertise or anything, so, you know, if we're in a town, maybe we'll make like a Facebook post and promote it for like 10 bucks and be like, ah, maybe that'll catch someone, you know, one person or whatever, but it's really about people sharing it with other people because they have an incredible experience and it's about the experience for us. We're not trying to sell anything. It's like we're holding space for the people who are interested in coming to experience and that's kind of how, how it goes. Yeah. Was there any cool feedback from psych science that you got from some of the people that participated in it? Oh yeah. People had a wide range of experience. That was such a cool, um, event because there was all kinds of doctors and you know, people who are really on the medical side, you're just starting to open their eyes. Like there was some like trial judge who had just done LSD for the first time, like a week ago. And then he like tried the light and was like, what, like my mind is just so blown about like what is going on in the world right now. Like, you know, everyone's so focused on like the dark side of things, but like really like there's amazing stuff going on here. he was just like so excited you know there's like there's a lot of really positive you know reactions reflections from from the yeah yeah my one friend who's a psychiatrist he told me he did it and he was blown away by it he was like it was amazing you know yeah so it's cool to reach that audience of professionals and show them some sort of alternative whether they could use it in their practice but we're not medicalizing it but just knowing that this stuff is out there and yeah and there are some therapists who use it um you know because basically it takes you to a really deep state and it's totally legal and everything like that i mean it's a little more complicated if you're trying to write it off for insurance or something like that so yeah no and i mean again it's kind of in still early stages really as far as popularity and things like that and it's a very specific group of people are interested in it but we have found more and more recently that we're reaching out to different groups um to offer the experience so they're not necessarily like spiritual seekers or like crazy psychonauts we're trying to just get to like regular people who and they have amazing experience like we've had um we've done it at like really like spas you know that are like you know like do your nails and like your hair and you look so nice you know and then they're like and try this light thing it's very relaxing and like had these old ladies just like oh that was just that was beautiful it's just like so beautiful i've never seen colors like that in my life before you don't know like clearly they've never had a psychedelic experience if we had said it was psychedelic they would have been like no way i'm not doing that you know but it's like so cool because you can just come in and like with a light and just like you know so do you ever pitch it as like relaxation like maybe stress reduction or anything yeah deep nervous system relaxation and you know centering and grounding and yeah and some people are like all about that you know and yeah and it's yeah cool and what about like contradictions any side effects um i know like when i was at psi science i heard somebody had maybe like an adverse reaction but we were just talking and maybe it wasn't what people were actually saying but it was might have been more of a cathartic experience totally um so are there any side effects or any negative so it is flickering light so with any type of flashing light and this could happen in a concert or all kinds of things there are certain individuals who would be predisposed to having a seizure um that's that means you have light sensitive epilepsy so if you break that down it means you're so sensitive to light that a seizure is basically like a brain overwhelm so um even flickering light to their system is just so extreme that it causes this kind of overload you know and um yeah it can be there's um even within people who have epilepsy it's a very small percentage who are actually triggered by light um so that's one part and then another part is most of those people are really pretty aware that they feel really uncomfortable around flashing light and so they're not going to come try a light experience you know things like that but i think um like for example what did happen at the psychedelic conference is someone had a really like deep emotional experience seeing a loved one who had passed away like days before showed up in the light and it was overwhelming because he hadn't been able to process it at all and um you know by crying or releasing or feeling it just kind of been like in shock because he wasn't able to basically for days and then had been like oh here i am you know like i gotta like be on my a game and you know and it was a personal experience for him so i won't go any further but basically it was an overwhelm and um felt really amazing afterwards and really like opened up like a whole thing and actually you know helped a lot and um it was a very like helpful like process for him so and he came back and really thanked us you know and we're like okay you know some people are like what there's like a seizure over there oh my god what's going on and i'm like run away and it's like no i think we have to like rethink how we think about a lot of these things like you know the prophet muhammad yeah had seizures like all the time and that's how you get his like downloads and it's like if we um and i don't know if you know about dr joe dispenza's work i don't think so so he's really incredible he works with like a lot of quantum meditations i guess i would say but um he like people in his uh events like go through crazy experiences where they um they have these crazy gamma spikes so they have these crazy gamma spikes and they have eegs on their heads during it have these crazy gamma spikes so like really high cognition that can't even be measured on our current you know things and they're just like going through all kinds of convulsions or whatever experiences and it's not a seizure it's actually a full um next level experience and a lot of people will heal crazy stuff like they have like parkinson's disease and they can't walk and then they realize it's all this emotional like block and all of these things and they like clear it and they walk out of there like a different person and it happens all the time he does these events all over it's like a three-day immersion super powerful and he's all about the science he's a doctor you know he talks about all of the science behind it and makes you feel really comfortable in the left brain so that when it comes to the you know he does a third eye breath and like all these things when it comes to that you can really let go and go to the next level so it is just kind of interesting how um how we think of what's an adverse reaction or like what that means and everything and it's like kind of in life my opinion is it's like well if something happens on the physical that's traumatic then it's like a chance to like really look within and you know deal with some other things right yeah and to even do that in the marketplace i mean the marketplace was probably busy so people might have been walking by and they saw this person have a cathartic experience i mean i'm sure if anybody came to breathwork not knowing anything about it watching people have cathartic experiences and i think that's weird i remember i was taking a chinese medicine class and my teacher's a five element doctor and i was like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm an acupuncturist and they had a student lying on the table in the middle of class and you know they had a like a rebirthing experience just from acupuncture and it from like being a student observing it it looked like they seized up their body got really tense they started shaking convulsing and every muscle was tight but from their end it was just a catharsis you know it was just a release of a physical and emotional energy totally and that's what's so interesting about you know how we perceive things and how we perceive things and how we perceive things so much and it's like kind of scary from the outside if you can't like meet someone's eyes or something but it doesn't mean that they're you know really suffering or anything like that i think it's like scarier for other people than the people that are actually going through the process so yeah it's interesting and i mean as far as i think that's the only type of thing that can be like you know obviously the most intense experience that you can have them like other than that it's really positive for everyone we do say like 18 up because that's when your brain is more um and i think that you know your children don't need the light really like i was talking to grandmothers like yeah just go outside and like hug a tree like be with nature like or do like a sound healing where you can really hear that sound but the same thing like they don't really need breath work like maybe you know in teenage years when you're dealing with some other stuff it could be good but i think below that it's like we're incredible creatures and um children are so resilient and all of that but yeah other than that there's no contraindications there's it's been uh really powerful experience for all types of people and all types of conditions and yeah for people who are like nervous about psychedelic experiences or have had bad psychedelic experiences to people who also just want to explore new psychedelic experiences it's like all good so yeah yeah it was a really interesting experience and i was a little nervous because of like some of the buzz around psych science and what i was hearing and also i am pretty sensitive to light like i just was watching a movie and i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die um a couple weeks ago on at the movie theater and they had a scene there was a lot of flashing light and like i had to close my eyes for a second because i was like oh my god i feel like i'm gonna seize out so i was like a little nervous about doing this because i'm like a little light sensitive but i had a really awesome experience with it and i it felt very heart opening i felt like um yeah the sensation around my heart just opening lifting uh the visual experience was really interesting there were times where i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna when it was just solid white light in my vision and i couldn't tell what was making the shift so there's a for example there was a time when it was just really bright white light and then i don't know if it was because i was also like using my breath to navigate the space or if it was the actual light changing in intensity but it shot me back and i say it was like this this oh man it was like an aqua blue color very intense and it felt like the sky just like kind of coming down on me and then all of a sudden i saw this um all these geometric shapes and it felt like i was being blasted into another dimension and i remember just kind of going and i just shot back in the bed that we're i was laying in and it was really cool like the the experience kept shifting based on like how i was breathing how i was taking that emotion in how i was processing it um there were there was like some time when it felt a little intense where i was telling you earlier that it was shifting between like three colors at one point it was like red orange and blue and it's like milliseconds like red orange blue red orange blue i was like oh man this is really intense but i was trying to remember what you said of just letting go and letting the experience take over and as soon as i let go it just like slowed down and turned into like a really beautiful experience But a lot of oceanic feelings. um and it was it felt really blissful i didn't really feel afraid at all it was really calming at some points and then i had a lot of energy at the end like i wanted to get up and like run you know i was like oh man i feel awesome like this is so great um but i'd say like the overall thing it was like really hard opening really calming but also really like activating as well awesome yeah totally yeah and everyone again has a different experience so it's always amazing to you know hear what people do experience but yeah i think something that's really special about the lucia light is that kind of heart opening feeling that's what a lot of people talk about they feel like they're really held in the experience you know it starts with that really warm glow which holds you there and then you know anything beyond that but it is interesting that you saw a white light because most people describe never seeing any white light even though it's white light it's more like uh colors and patterns and stuff like that yeah you know and i mean how we interpret that that's more like you know crown chakra energy or like really like connecting purely with you know the source where you're not even needing to see it through any filter so that's cool and it's really interesting that you mentioned the creator of this had a near death experience and wanted to share it when i was 16 and you know most some of the listeners that have probably already heard me talk about this a million times but i had like a near death experience when i was 16 and i did feel a lot of that and i think that's really cool and i think that during that experience and that blissful kind of death experience of like just falling into the light that comfort of like wow this is all love i mean that's how i felt when i was dying it was like this this light of just pure bliss and joy just telling me that i was going to transition and like that's kind of how i felt up there just like basking in the the radiant light and just taking it all in and it was so comforting awesome yeah yeah it's and it's so funny because it's such a contradiction right it's like yeah i felt like i was dying you know like a lot of people are like what you know like that's so scary and triggering to think like death you know but it's actually like a release and it's like a place beyond you know what you experience here and whether it's like really like going towards death or just going beyond this realm which is like a pretty like dense reality full of like a lot of like pain and like struggling and all of that that we all experience you know and it's like letting all that go and really being in a place where it's like beyond the ego beyond you know the struggle the you know the need to try to be who you know you're trying to be and like all that it's like you can just let that all melt away which is really hard to do and you know when i was in the er there's immediate fear of like i'm gonna die you know i'm hearing like the doctors and nurses telling me my veins are collapsing my body i don't have any blood and then to the point where like i blissed out and i just heard this this voice saying just relax into it and that's when like all the fear melted away and learning to surrender into that process is very difficult i mean i still have a tough time surrendering to the process but that experience also taught me that surrendering also it's very helpful you know yeah it's like the more you fight the scarier it gets the more anxiety it produces if you can just kind of let go and into whatever experience you are experiencing totally transform and transmute into something else exactly and that's kind of what we say with the light too is that um after a series of experiences you start changing because it's rewriting your neural pathways so like when you experience stress which the light is really intense so like it's a bright light you know so like you know it's an intense experience just on that level it's not like oh my god it's scary but it's like wow this is intense like you can actually feel like your heart like picking up in the very beginning because it's like whoa this is different you know and your mind's kind of like what's going to happen i don't know what's going to happen and then but as you let go into it and the you know the entrainment from the light helps as well to really relax your body it helps you practice letting go and relaxing into intense experiences and you know it's it's funny we've had different people you know in different ways and one woman's like well the experience itself wasn't like anything i didn't think it was that special it was like very you know colorful but i've you know i've done acid it wasn't like wow you know i was like she was so funny but how she described it and i'm like okay you know and then she's like but the next day and she like called me to tell me she's like it was crazy she's like usually i get really overwhelmed and like um it was just one of those days you could just tell like the way it was starting like everything was going wrong you know like and you were just kind of she was like and i just realized i wasn't like reacting and making it worse i was just kind of like okay this is where we're at and i kind of found it amusing and i was able to just find distance with it and then actually things got way better where she's like it's been a kind of pattern for me if it starts wrong like things start wrong in the morning then they just get worse and worse and worse and worse so i had to realize like and own the fact that i'm the one who makes it worse and worse and worse and worse it's like you know we can have intense experiences and like bad experiences you know traumatic experiences but it's like how we respond to it which means how fast we're gonna get over it you know it's like if you're still holding on to that grudge for like a year and a half and you're like oh my god i'm gonna get from that one time the person looked at you weird it's like was that your perception of them looking at you weird to begin with and even if they were looking at you weird maybe they were thinking about something else or you know so it's just like we take things so personally and then hold on to them and it's like why you know like that's only hurting you like that person's totally over it you know so like just kind of that practice of like letting things flow through you letting them flow through you in a much better place yeah yeah this is really awesome and i really appreciate you sharing the light with me um i had a really great time and i feel like this session's probably gonna wrap up soon upstairs with the other folks and i feel like it's probably gonna get a little noisy down here for recording so um where can people find your find you yeah so our website is lucialightexperience.com and um if you look you can see like try the lucia and then there's a whole list of locations around the u.s um and you know you can fill out a contact form if you want to invite us out as well we do travel around um all over the place our next places that we're going to are new orleans and then europe actually for a little bit and then back to california but yeah so lucialightexperience.com is our website and then i'll give you some other links and stuff as well awesome folks want to learn more well yeah thank you so much for talking it's for sure been awesome yeah the dog is happy too yeah he's like all right until next time thanks so much take care thank you so much for watching and i'll see you in the next one bye you you