All things kitchen (including butlers, walk-in pantries and appliance cupboards) - Episode 4 (Season 2)

Hello. This is episode four of season two. In this episode, I'm going to be talking about your kitchen and this episode is going to be a little bit longer than normal just because there's so much to cover. All right. Your kitchen is a big investment and it needs to work. So let's dive in. Welcome to Get It Right with the Undercover Architect. This is the podcast all about designing, building or renovating your home. I'm your host Emilia Lee. Think of me as your secret ally. I am on a mission to help you create a home that makes your life better, whoever you're working with and whatever your dreams, your location or your budget. Together we'll uncover the nitty gritty of how to get it right and how to create a home that works, feels great and that you feel great in. So join me now. This episode is about kitchens. All things kitchens, which means that I'll also be talking about butler's pantries, walk-in pantries and appliance cupboards. There's a huge amount to consider when it comes to designing your kitchen and it more than any other area of your home. Look, I know you can feel a lot of pressure that you'll stuff it up. Your renovation or new build, it honestly can be the opportunity that you've been waiting for to finally get a kitchen that works. One with decent bench space and great storage and a layout that really enables you to enjoy being in it and using it and getting the most from it. So in this episode I'm going to cover the four Fs and how they relate to your kitchen and I'll also share three mistakes to avoid and three design tips to aim for so that you can nail this space in your home because when your kitchen works it ends up being amazing for improving your time and your life in your home overall. So let's get going because there is a lot to get through. All right, now remember we start with feel. So how do you want to feel in your kitchen? I know, I know, this can feel a little bit silly, right? Look, I know how I want to feel in my kitchen and if I'm honest, I want to feel like the hostest with the mostest. I want to feel like a ninja nijella like everything is effortless. The kitchen can look sorted and be tidy in five minutes and that I can make magic in there. I'm exaggerating but I think you get the idea. The thing is that for most homeowners I work with they have families and when you have kids the way you usually entertain is at home. Look, it's hard and expensive to take a tribe of children out somewhere and even when you do you actually really get to speak to your friends because you're keeping an eye on your kids. So getting together with your friends and family it usually involves being at someone's home and having a lovely open plan kitchen living and dining area that then flows to outside. Look, it's such a winner when it comes to easy family living and entertaining. So how do you want to feel in your kitchen and how do you want your kitchen to feel? Now remember write it down because it helps to hang on to this as you move through the process. Let's look at functionality and orientation. Look, this one's a bit of a no brain art because your kitchen really does perform a significant and obvious role in your home doesn't it? Cooking, storing and preparing food and then cleaning up afterwards. Pretty simple isn't it? However, there are a lot of secondary functions. Kitchens end up being a casual get together space so there is spot to sit, say at your island bench with a glass of wine or a cup of tea and have a catch up with your partner or a good friend. There can be a place for a quiet moment of just opening up the paper or the mail and just getting updated with things and where does everyone congregate when you're having a party in your home? It's always the kitchen isn't it? Even on regular weekday mornings it can be a busy harb of activity as everyone is doing what they need to to get going on their day and get out of the house. When you have the space it's also a really great zone for homework to get done whilst dinner is being prepared and kitchens can also tend to be a bit of a dumping ground as the keys and the mail and notes and your devices and all the other daily paraphernalia really just can mount up in and around your kitchens. So getting it right with functionality actually means acknowledging that a lot happens in our kitchens. It's really more than just simply food storage prep and cooking and it means making spaces and places for all these secondary functions as well so I'll talk more about that as we go on. In terms of orientation and thinking about it for the kitchen my personal preference is to locate your kitchen on the eastern side of your home putting it here and doing what you need to to let morning sun in during the winter and also let it in during some of it to manage the heat of it. That will always mean a bright light kitchen in the mornings and it can also mean that in winter your kitchen has a chance to warm up which can help you warm up too as you get started on your day. There's nothing better honestly than having a warm kitchen on a winter's morning and a spot to sit in the sun for a ten minute coffee or tea break just before the day explodes. Now if you're seeking to put your living area on your northeast corner as I've been speaking about in a previous episode look that might actually end up pushing your kitchen across to the western side. So if that happens just make sure that you're going to be able to well-shade your kitchen so that it's not really hot in the afternoons and evenings as you're cooking dinner because it's been heating up in the afternoon particularly in summer. Now I always prefer to get the kitchen next to an edge of the house. So either sitting it right next to your outdoor entertaining area so it spills directly out to your fresco or your deck area or to the side of your house where you might be able to get side boundary windows looking out that you can then screen for privacy. I find that when a kitchen is inbound in the floor plan so actually pulled away from the edge it's really challenging to be sure that you can get lots of natural light to it. Unlike a lot of other areas in our home you actually need a lot of light to get stuff done in the kitchen to be able to see what you're doing and if that always has to be electrical light that can really impact how you feel in the space of your kitchen and how it feels overall. So capitalize on natural light access to your kitchen as much as you possibly can by where you physically put it in your home. Now let's move on to flexibility. When you think about flexibility and a kitchen it can get tricky because ultimately a kitchen it's a built-in room isn't it? You're installing joinery and appliances and bench tops and splashbacks all in fixed locations. So it's not like you can move it around if you get tired or frustrated with the layout or the position. So I want you to think about flexibility in your kitchen in a couple of different ways. Firstly think about how flexible the parts of your kitchen are. Now can you use your island bench as a home work zone as well or as a big serving space during a party where you can just lay out all the platters and people can serve themselves? Is it a casual dining area where you can pull stalls up to it and eat around it should you need to? You know can you see that you'll be able to make dinner for 20 as easily as for two in your kitchen? Can you have your whole family inside your kitchen moving in and out in the morning as much as just one or two of you using the space and everything bit easily accessible? You know I think that what's key with all of this is bench space. So look for ways to pull together items and appliances in your kitchen so that you then free up great accessible bench spaces in other areas. A lot of people will just dot their appliances right throughout their kitchen and get lots of small bench space areas between them rather than trying to aggregate them together and getting a large bench real estate. Now secondly think about flexibility in terms of your budget and your fit out. I see homeowners struggle just with how chunky the investment in their kitchen can be and then they look for how they can scale their kitchen back to meet their budget or the flip side which is what is even worse is that they'll scale back on other things in order to be able to afford the kitchen that they're dreaming of. Your kitchen is actually something that can be removed and replaced and it can also be added to an upgraded at a later date. So I want you to focus on getting the space right for your whole home first, the structural bones, the windows and door positions and the sizes and the orientation and the light and all those types of things and then put the kitchen into that. You know if it's not the big dreamy kitchen that you planned look at how you'll be able to build something now that you can then upgrade later. You could build your entire kitchen in laminate. There's some fantastic laminate surfaces and colours these days so do bench tops and cupboard fronts in laminate and let your toddlers punish it, let your kids draw all over it and scratch it and then replace the bench tops and the cupboard fronts at a later date with stone on two pack and those types of things that you're really dreaming about. You know this may feel like the last money that you'll ever spend on your home when you're doing this renovation or this build but I guarantee it won't be okay and you're much better off building in the flexibility now to upgrade your kitchen later than trying to get everything now and getting it smaller and not as fantastic and not as functional as you want it to be. Okay now onto furnishability and remember this includes ergonomics. So remember we spoke about ergonomics in episode one of the seasons so head back there and listen again if you need a reminder about what it is. Now furnishability in the kitchen really becomes about what appliances you'll have and where you'll put them and ergonomics in the kitchen becomes about the sizes of things and the distances between them and how easy access is. I have a lot of blogs on the website that include dimensions and tips about layout and all sorts of recommended things so I'm not going to cover all of that in detail now but I will include links in the show notes and on the website for the blog for this podcast so you can head there and you can see lots of additional information to help you get it right in your kitchen but we're just going to look at one main area and look at our appliances in this podcast. So one of the key things that I recommend you do is that you think carefully about what type of appliances you want and where you want to have them. Okay so for example do you want a wall oven or an under bench oven and do you want it to be 600 wide or 900 millimeters wide or bigger you know is it free standing or is it built in. One tip I will say definitely is to check the internal size of any oven that you're looking at you know sometimes these ovens can be really big on the outside but with the amount of insulation they have in the wall construction they'll actually not be that big on the inside and you'll find out the hard way that you can't fit your roasting tray into them all right so just check that whilst you're looking at these ovens. Now also think about what kind of cook top do you want do you want to have and what kind of services do you have coming to your house so you know as you cook top going to be electric is it going to be gas or is it going to be induction or is it going to be a combination. Some supplies some brands will actually let you do a conbee cook top where you can have different types within the one cook top and how big is it going to be as well as it going to be 600 or 900 or wider. Now another thing to look at is your fridge. Fridges can take up a lot of space in your kitchen so get an understanding now of the kind of fridge that you think you want to have in your kitchen be it you're keeping your existing one or whether you're going to buy a new one. Fridges are also deeper than standard kitchen joinery and I'll talk a little bit more about this when I'm talking about design tips but think about what kind of fridge do you want and does it need to be connected to plumbing for water supply and for making ice. Does it open to the left or to the right and of course you know there's options around whether it's integrated so it looks like it's part of the joinery or it's free standing and whether it's a side by side or a top and bottom you know there's all sorts of choices okay. Now if you're not sure what type of fridge and freezer you're going to have at this stage then just make an allowance for it that's 1 meter wide and 800 deep and 1800 tall so that's 1 meter wide 80 centimeters deep and 1.8 meters tall and that will cover most fridge models but it's really great if you can actually choose what kind of fridge you're going to have and then create a fridge recess to suit it. Now let's look at what kind of sink you're going to want as well so is it going to be a one and a half is it going to be two is it going to have a drain board is it going to be a drop in is it going to be an under mount okay lots of choices lots of decisions to make but it's really good to make these decisions up front because they impact the kind of kitchen design that you create. Look at your dishwasher as well so do just want one for example you know some homeowners who do a lot of entertaining or who have big families they'll be putting in two dishwashers and it may sound quite luxurious and expensive but dishwashers themselves actually they're not really highly priced things so you know I know personally ours will go on two or three times a day because I just refuse to hand wash anything so yeah have a look at what kind of dishwasher arrangement you might want. Now is there anything else okay so microwave coffee machine a steamer oven thermomix toaster kettle you know dedicated griller a warming tray a combi oven a zippy tap that will do filtered and boiling and sparkling water that sits beside your normal tap do you want a wine fridge do you want a dedicated freezer do you want a pot sink built in bench top kitchen scales like seriously you know the the sky is the limit when it comes to decking out our kitchens and the line between commercial and domestic kitchens just keeps getting blurred as we turn our kitchens into these restaurant quality spaces however please don't get carried away okay really analyse on how you cook now and how a kitchen could better support that you know if you're not a big entertainer and you've never been somebody that really loves cooking then chances are you creating this amazing whizbang kitchen isn't going to turn you into somebody who all of a sudden entertains and loves cooking all right so just have a think a realistic assessment of of how you are in a kitchen and how you want your kitchen to be and if you do all of your summertime entertaining on the barbecue then it's actually really pointless decking out your entire kitchen with these you know really cutting edge appliances because you probably won't actually use them and if you don't bake a huge amount you use your stove top more then you know having a great big whopping oven might not be the best choice for you you know resale is worth considering but not as a reason to install an oven of a particular size and brand that you may never actually use all right so don't get carried away think about this realistically and what's going to work for you now let's have a look at flow and this is where I'm going to talk about layout of your kitchen overall our kitchens have been come there's centerpiece for our homes they're really exposed their big walls of joinery that they sit within open plan spaces of our living and dining areas and the thing is though that kitchens can also be pretty messy and smelly and steamy places as we prepare meals each day so I want you to have a think about the flow around and to your kitchen where does it sit within your home and in relation to your indoor and outdoor living spaces when you or your guests actually arrive into your home do you look straight at your kitchen or you're looking straight into your kitchen sink for example and into the guts of your kitchen and all of the messy stuff where there might be dirty dishes stacked high from when everybody quickly escaped in the morning you know where does shopping bags get put down when you come home having done the grocery shopping how will you carry things in and out of your kitchen you know big platters of food when you're when you're trying to entertain and take things out to a table or even just taking food from the kitchen to the dinner table getting up during the ad break to make a cup of tea you know all these little activities that have us in and out of the kitchen how easily will that be able to happen and how will you design a kitchen that supports that this is one of the reasons that I actually recommend that the fridge is always on an outer edge of the kitchen because it will generally be the most regularly accessed part of your kitchen so if you actually end up putting your fridge inside your pantry or you put it behind benches within the center of your kitchen that can mean that everybody's actually working over the top of each other particularly as kids are opening doors up to get snacks out and things like that and you're trying to get stuff done in your kitchen map out these patterns of use and think about how the design of your kitchen will help your home feel and function overall at different times of the day and for different events that you might be having in your home now let's look at the flow within the kitchen as well this actually links back to ergonomics you know ultimately when you want something to work this is about thinking how you physically will inhabit it and use the space and what you'll be able to reach from where and how many steps you have to take between things as I mentioned previously I've got lots of info on the site about recommended dimensions and layouts so head to the show notes for those links all right I will say this though my recommendation with family kitchens is to avoid a u-shaped kitchen okay whether it's a big u or it's a narrow one if it's still a u my opinion is that they don't work well for family kitchens now why will I've got three reasons reason number one is dead corners corner cupboards in u-shaped kitchens become these deep spaces that are hard to store things efficiently or in an accessible way so yeah you can install special storage help us like lazy seasons but it's still not an efficient use of really great cupboard space corner benches also become cluttered spaces where things will just get pushed into and then they'll get pulled out when they need to be used because it's really difficult to lean across a corner to use a bench top appliance now reason number two is that u-shaped kitchens trap the users have you ever tried to have a few people in a u-shaped kitchen and no one can go anywhere except back out the way that they came in you know whilst you don't want your kitchen to be a circulation thoroughfare I always recommend that you have two escape roots to make for easier use in a family kitchen now reason number three is that there is a cupboard opening hierarchy by default all right now what do I mean by this well if you have a u-shaped kitchen and you try opening say the dishwasher on one face of the u and then you want to open the cupboard on the other face of the u that runs at right angles to it to put a plate away but the dishwasher door blocks the plate cupboard so you have to remember to open the plate cupboard before you drop the dishwasher door down like seriously even with wide use you'll still get corner cupboards and areas in the corner where this is an issue all right now I have a u-shaped kitchen now well I'll actually replace that I had a u-shaped kitchen until last week hubby actually cut off one leg of the u to make an island with it I've had them and I've seen them in countless homes and they never work as well as a kitchen can look if you have a u-shaped kitchen and swear by it that's great but in my opinion I always recommend that you avoid them when you're building or renovating your home for your family so what layout works instead well there's two really there's the galley kitchen which is the back bench with a free standing island opposite and there's the l-shaped kitchen where the back bench turns 90 degrees at one end and then has a free standing island and there are sort of partial use where you'll have the back bench turning 90 degrees at either end and then you'll still have an island in the middle and they can also work as well now before I jump into sharing my top three mistakes and top three design tips for your kitchen I just want to talk about butler's pantries and walking pantries and appliance cupboards now again I have a blog on the website with tips specifically about this topic so I'm going to put that in the show notes for you to have a look and there's lots of photographs there for inspiration with different ideas about how to do and a butler's pantry or an appliance covered or a walking pantry but I just want to go through some ideas here now now butler's pantries have become really common recently in family homes I think of a you know a project I did at Mervac over 10 years ago where we put these butler's pantries in the penthouses and it was this wow you know that's amazing what a great idea because they just went in homes at that time and you know in 10 short years they seem to be now commonly requested functions and rooms that people want added on to their kitchens I also find to be honest that somehow miners tell me that they're putting one in purely for resale and they're not quite sure whether they'll actually personally use it or can't even really see how they'll use it now when I talk about butler's pantries this is different to a walk in pantry so a butler's pantry will have pantry storage so dry goods etc but it will also have a bench and generally some cupboard space or maybe some open shelves below and above it and sometimes it will have a sink in it and a dishwasher as well so this space this butler's pantry is the space where bench top appliances like say the mix master a toaster a kettle will go and that will then keep the main kitchen space generally uncluttered and given how exposed our kitchens can be you know this makes sense for a lot of homeowners it also means that kids can be making bricky or snacks in the butler's pantry and be out of your way when you're using the kitchen to do lunches in the morning or to make dinner in the evenings and just not having to work on top of each other so a butler's pantry in my opinion differs quite considerably from a walk in pantry where a walk in pantry is purely for storage okay so you go in and out and it may store dry goods as well as some other bits and pieces but there won't necessarily be any bench space to work in that space itself alright now both of these functions of course are going to take up room in a floor plan because they need circulation space and depth for shelving and for cupboards and not all homes will have this space in their floor plan and you know seriously a butler's pantry it's not a corner cupboard it's generally about 1.8 meters in length or more and it'll be 1.8 meters to two meters wide look you can fit a small bathroom or a laundry in the same type of space as a butler's pantry so if you don't have the space please don't squeeze one in for the sake of it alright instead look at how you can design joinery that gives you this added functionality of decluttering your kitchen and a dedicated space to have these items and things that you know will be regularly used so an appliance cupboard for example is a great addition to a kitchen it's essentially bench top space behind cupboard doors so these cupboard doors can be sliding or they can be byfold or they can be pocket doors where they actually open up and get out of the way and then you have completely clear access face on to a bench where maybe some shelves above and drawers or cupboard space below and it's really accessible they function really well because you're standing face on to the full width of the bench you know it's also worth remembering when you're thinking about whether you're going to create a butler's pantry or a walk in pantry you remember that with family life you actually usually need to be visually connected to what's going on within and outside of your home you know if you've got small kids or even bigger kids you want to be able to see and connect with them regularly and easily and that will particularly be relevant when you're in your kitchen so whilst the idea of having a space where you can hide all of the clutter and have all of the messy stuff out of the way that may sound great for keeping your kitchen tidy but if you're totally tucked away from all of the action in your home you may find that you don't use your butler's pantry or you walk in pantry as much as you thought you would all right so just really look at how this is going to be designed if you're planning on putting one in and how you'll keep connected to everything else going on in your home and in the rest of the kitchen whilst you're in there all right now as I said remember to check the show notes and the website for links with specific blogs that will give you inspiration and ideas about how to get it right in these spaces now let's wrap this up with my three mistakes that I regularly see homeowners making and my three design tips all right and that's over and above the ones I've already mentioned now mistake number one is not planning out the storage you'll need in your kitchen I recently saw a woman post in a Facebook group that I'm in she'd taken a photograph of her brand new kitchen which was beautiful and it had some overhead glass fronted cupboards and she was actually posting to ask people what she should store in them and was making a couple of suggestions but was worried because everything was going to be on display in these cupboards and I was really shocked that she hadn't figured this out before she'd chosen them for her kitchen I mean they would have cost more than a standard solid fronted cupboard so it would have been a specific choice for her but what became clear was that she'd chosen them for an aesthetic look and not really thought about how they were going to function you know if you can map out your storage have a think about whether you know do you need drawers or do you need cupboards how deep do your cupboards need to be because a pantry will be a different depth to a cupboard that storing platters or saucepins and pots and things like that you know what will you have above the bench compared to below the bench map this all out you know it may feel a little bit pedantic but cabinetry is expensive in a kitchen things like soft closing drawers and cupboards they add up and the last thing that you want is to choose it all and then figure out how you'll use it or or post on a Facebook page for ideas now mistake number two that I see homeowners making is that they create an island bench that is too stumpy and not in proportion you know when island benches are too small and stumpy they can really make the kitchen feel small overall my recommendation is that an island bench should be at least two metres long if not longer and 800 millimetres in deep because if they're shorter they need to be deeper and more square format so that they still look in proportion to your kitchen overall okay and check if you're having stone bench tops check your stone slab sizes so that you don't need joints in your island bench mistake number three is putting in a corner pantry now this goes down with you shape kitchens as one of my pet heights in kitchen design we saw them a lot in kitchens in the 1980s and 1990s and they're often included in kitchens as a way of dealing with a corner so corner pantries are the ones that have that 45 degree door it'll be quite narrow you'll open it up and then there'll be shallow l-shaped shelving that wraps around the walls and a heap of space in front now why do I dislike them so much well what happens when you have these in your kitchen is that that floor space that is within the pantry then becomes a dumping ground you know and the shelving itself ends up getting stacked deep with things that are hidden from view especially right back into the corner we actually have to reach over all the stuff you've put on the floor to get in there you know I've seen people put brooms in these cupboards I've seen people put recycling bins because they don't have anywhere else to put them you know it gets chockers with stuff it's very I can't think of one time where I've been into a kitchen with a corner pantry where there has not been stuff on the floor in front of all of the dry goods stored on shelves it's actually much more efficient for you to create a pantry that goes against a wall that has 300 millimetre deep shelving that you can then easily and excessively store all of your dry goods all right or if you're going to have a corner pantry make the pantry bigger so that you don't have a 45 degree door all right that you have a bigger L and you actually have a proper door to be able to get in there now here are three design tips for you when thinking about how to get it right in your kitchen design my design tip number one is to keep the services out of your island bench now what usually happens is that people put sinks in their island benches and I think there's this notion that it means that you can stand at the sink and you can still keep an eye on everything that's going on you know but with dishwashers and with water dispenses on our fridges you know we don't actually standard our sinks for that long anymore and our sinks are really messy spaces I don't know if you've got kids like mine who refuse to stack their dishes in the dishwasher and then just dump things in the sink if if you're trying to madly get ready in the morning and get out the door chances are the stuff gets left in your sink before you go and and you'll be splashing water it'll be on the island bench you know this can mean that the rest of the island bench becomes a messy kind of untidy and wet space so when our island benches are actually used as a casual dining space or a homework zone or a food prep space for example you know it's great for them to not be messy and wet zones and to have as much usable bench space as possible so I really recommend trying to keep the sink out of it and put that that on your back bench design tip number two is to remember that your fridge is deeper than your kitchen joinery now I mentioned this briefly earlier on the standard kitchen joinery is 600 millimeters deep so you below bench cupboards are 600 millimeters deep and your above bench cupboards are 300 millimeters deep and a fridge usually needs 800 millimeters in depth all right so have a think about it will your fridge sit within your main kitchen bench and will it sit proud of it then all right well let's stick out further than your kitchen cupboards or will you build out all of your kitchen cupboards so that they end up being the same depth as your fridge recess or will you put your fridge elsewhere in your kitchen for example so it doesn't have kitchen joinery sitting either side of it I will actually often sit the fridge in its own recess at right angles to the main back bench and I'll do this in a way that actually hides it from when you walk into the kitchen so because the fridge door is always covered with school notices magnets and all other bits and pieces all right so it means that that messy door is out of view when you arrive in the kitchen now design tip number three is also about island benches now I've seen us all become very attached to island benches generally and sometimes there really isn't the space as I said earlier when they go in and they're too small they can actually make the kitchen feel small overall if you can only fit a stumpy one or a thin sliver of one then I'd actually recommend not putting one in it all or if you find that it's going to squash and compromise the dining or living spaces next to your kitchen then again I'd leave it out you know this may seem a bit controversial but I've seen so many other kitchens that work really well and not have an island bench at all you know if you have a really great back bench and then you bring your dining table actually into your kitchen space more they do this a lot in European kitchens and a lot of apartment kitchens as well whether dining space itself in the dining table becomes an island bench by default and it will become heavily integrated into your kitchen use if this is what needs to happen in your home for everything to work together you know you can have a really great dining table you can do your food prep there kids can do homework there and you can still be in the kitchen having all that back bench space that works really well and you haven't tried to squeeze everything into the floor plan and compromise everything as a result okay so that's it for all things kitchens and butler's pantries and appliance cupboards and walk in pantries whoo was a long one wasn't it now as I said it doesn't stop there remember to head to the show notes all to the website and there'll be lots more information on links to kitchens kitchen design and pantry design as well to really help you get it right I've got tips about dimensions and layouts and the positions of things in relation to each other so there's heaps of useful information there for you okay kitchens they're a big deal in our home and they're the source of a lot of angst when they don't work well and they can be pretty stressful to get right just because there is so much choice when it comes to choosing for your kitchen they also chew up a lot of our budget okay so I hope that you found this podcast helpful as a start to some really key design ideas about how to get it right in your kitchen and get a kitchen that's going to work and function really well for you and for your home now I'll see you next time where I'm going to be sharing info about the master suite so that's bedroom number one all right this is the parent zone of the home and it's super important in creating a restful feel in a busy family home looking forward to it thank you so much for joining me here at get it right with undercover architect if you're wanting to learn more about how to design a home I've actually created a special five step e-guide to get you started it's free and you can get your copy now it's called how to design a home five simple steps to getting it right and you can head to www.undercoveracitect.com/homedesign to get your free copy emailed straight to your inbox and I'll put that link in the show notes if you've enjoyed listening to the podcast please head to iTunes and subscribe because that way then you'll be the first to know about new episodes and you'll also help others like you find out about this podcast I'd really love it if you could leave a review to please because it'll tell iTunes to share this podcast with other homeowners like you and if you have friends or family planning their future homes please let them know about the podcast as well everyone who is renovating or building can then get support in getting it right this has been Amelia Lee from undercover architect thank you for tuning in and for letting me bear your sacred ally looking forward to next time bye Jack rapid FM for your ears who is that hyper pass