Aliens or DEMONS?! Megachurch Pastor Responds to UFO Mania | Live Free with Josh Howerton

- I'm super skeptical about aliens. I'm super confident in the reality of demons. - Extraterrestrial life can exist, and it would not overturn an ounce of the Bible. And many, if not most, alien quote-unquote encounters were most likely encounters with demons. Both of those things can be true. - That's the main thing. Don't start given level eight attention to things of level 0.002 importance. - Well, hey, every nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. But the live free nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We wanna invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for church online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook and our church online platform, and it's more than just watching a service. There are a live host in the chat. Prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast. - Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode number 75. - What? - 75. - Cheggy Bauti, Carlos, how are you doing? (laughing) - I can't look at them. So Carlos is on vacation. Which, hey, this is amazing. Just quick shout out to our buddy Carlos and this precious family. Yeah, I always sent a picture of Carlos from vacation. There he is. (laughing) - Looks like he's having the time of his life. - That is, the mannequin looks happier than him. (laughing) - That is actually not Carlos on vacation. - That's a picture that someone took of a miserable Carlos who was forced to camp a few years ago and they sent it to me. And I saved it because I love Carlos and I like to troll him with that picture. (laughing) - Okay, Cheggy Bauti, we gotta move quick because this is a full episode. - Of course, Carlos would say, "Rapido." - I don't know if he don't. - You gotta roll the arc. - Yeah, I didn't roll the arc, my bad. - I don't know if he do. - We're gonna talk about, I know this is weird, just roll with us. We're gonna talk, first we're gonna talk, X2526 and some really cool things here. We're gonna talk about Uofos, aliens, UAPs, because of some things that are going on right now, that by the way, people are keeping tagging me in. And then we've got Josh McPherson, Ryan Visconti, hopping on, I think back half of this pod to talk some major shifts that are happening right now with pastors, politics, how pastors and churches should not relate to those things and some things that are happening in sort of behind the scenes. So full episode of this is gonna be really interesting. - It's gonna be fun. - All right, hey man, will you ask me that? Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, okay, wait, before we go on and then you're gonna ask me the question, Carlos. - I'm ready for the question. - I'm ready, right. - So official count, I still can't get over this. Baptism Weekend ended up as 741. - It's nuts. - It's crazy man. - It's incredible. - I've never seen anything like it. 741 people going public in the faith. I want to shout out two of them. So this first one, this is a guy named Kevin, over at our, is Forny Campus, right? Forny Campus. And then show the picture of him. So comes in a wheelchair and God bends his knee to the Lord, Chippa Jesus. And dude, it's like literally, I know, it's like literally out of the gospels. Like, you know, they crack open the roof and carry him down. And just his brothers and Christ, band of brothers right there, lowering him into the water. It's like going public this faith. And then Miss Carolyn, let's go ahead and show her. Miss Carolyn right here, same thing. From, now she was from, was it a senior center? - Okay. And I guess through digital ministry. So shout out Miss Carolyn if you're watching. Ben, her needs, the Lord, Chippa Jesus, wanted to go public their faith. Same thing. Same dudes, carry her down in the water and give baptized. - It's crazy. - This is awesome, right? - It's just, I never get over it. I always bring tears to my eyes. We got to hear stories this week when our staff gathered to just different things that God did. It just blows you away. We really are just caught in the middle of a revival. That's hard to put into words. - Kai, call it a hurricane grace, man. - That's right. - Dude, I'll, I'm always, 'cause you've served in other churches. Honestly, after a week and like that, my biggest fear are for our staff members that are like 24 and they've never served in other church. And they think that's normal. - Yeah. - I'm always like, God bless you. - I hope you understand. - It's not normal. Like I've been explaining to people like, this is just not normal. And it feels like, we talk about some of those behind the scenes. It feels like there's just a window open right now where God is pouring out his favor. And while that window's open, we're jumping in with everything we've got. I'm reminded of a quote by Leonard Ravenhill. Great. Great preacher of the past, great author. And he said that the opportunity of a lifetime must be seized in the lifetime of the opportunity. I know, great quote. - Wow. - In other words, while that window's open, I was jumping with everything we've got and leaning into what God is doing 'cause it just blows me away. - All gas, no brakes. - That's right. - Hey, before we dive in to Acts 25 and 26 and start talking, you have five. (laughing) The theological term, I'm gonna go ahead and cheat and cut ahead. The theological term is a biblical cosmology. So we'll talk about it in a second. Before we start talking that and passage and politics and all the stuff, I do wanna say, we are, we are, our authors keep me in the loop. We are rapidly approaching a million subs on YouTube. All the digital team, that's not my thing, man, they all are smarter than me about this stuff. So anyway, what I would say is, if this podcast is helpful to you in any way, if you could like, comment, share, and then click that little subscribe button and help us push it over the line. Over my shoulder over here, we got the little silver YouTube plaque that Carlos got and we hit a hundred thousand. And there, apparently you get a gold one. - A gold one? - A gold one. I don't know if it's real. Right now when we record that's out of nowhere, confetti cannon is gonna go off. They're gonna surprise us. - We'll get to a million. - Yeah, we'll get to a million. - So that'd be awesome. And then you can also text the word app to the number 2-0-4-1-1 to get the Lake Point app where it's all the sermons, all the discipleship discussion guides. Actually, there's an early release in the pods. They come out there on Sunday before they come out on Monday. Everywhere else, seeing text app to 2-0-4-1-1 to get that. And then last thing I'll say is because I keep seeing this. Dude, I don't even know about this. By the way, people keep saying this. I don't get any money when we sell hats. I just wanna say that. The internet is insane. I get no money for that. It just helps cover podcast costs and all that stuff. But a bunch of people keep saying they want hats. And some people think the only way you can get a hat is if you get chosen for commenting. - No. - So you can also text the word app to 2-0-4-1 and you can just buy one. - Yeah, that's right. If you comment hat, we will pick somebody from the comments section on YouTube and send you a hat. - That's right. So Pastor Josh, I've got a question for you. - Cheshire Paltier, I will allow it. - What didn't make him to the sermon? - All right. First of all, this was awesome. Dude, I haven't preached on Mother's Day in 10 years. - Really? - Yeah, so I had a blast. - That's awesome. - All right, I just had a blast. We are in the, there's more end game series. So this week, I know it's a little uncharacteristic. We hit two entire chapters. So we hit act 25 and act 26. And the whole deal was about sharing your faith because what happens in act 25 and 26 is we're gonna go Indiana Jones here in a second and show some cool stuff that you're gonna see someday. I got no jokes, you're gonna see it someday. - It's okay if you do. - What happens to act 25 and act 26 is Paul gets called before three Roman political leaders. Agrippa, Festus, and who's the other dude? Agrippa, Festus, and Felix. Act 24, yes, Felix. 25 Festus, 26, Agrippa. And he leverages that moment to testify to the gospel. Okay, so, and what he honestly what he does is he gives like, it's very practical. It's like a normal Christian can read act 25 and 26 and go, oh, so that's how I win one. That's how I win one. Okay, that's right. Now real quick, 'cause there is some cool stuff in this I didn't have time to do. So let's Indiana Jones this thing real quick. This is one of those things in the book of Acts. We're like, you can go there, you can touch all the stuff. So go ahead and toss that first picture up, Trinity. This is called Cessaria Maritima. Some people call it Cessaria by the sea. This is where all of the events of act 25 and act 26 take place. And when we go there, you go here and there's a bunch of stuff that happened here. So let me just outline some things real quick. This is where Peter, when it talks about Peter preaching at Cessaria, and I think it's Acts eight somewhere around there. That's where that happened. I think it's Acts 10 when Cornelius, the Roman centurion is in the Cessaria area that happened in or around this area right here. This is exactly where in Acts 23, here's your homework. Paul gets brought by 470 Roman soldiers, that right there is where he got brought. Like this right here, right out of that spot. And then all of the events of Acts 24, 25 and 26, they happened exactly right here. And then Paul is, people miss this sometimes. He gets imprisoned for two years. So he's imprisoned for two years at this place. Now, before I kind of show some things from the, say, a couple of things about that. passage. Let me just point out a couple things real quick. So, I mean, keep looking at a picture, what you're going to see is over on the right, you've got that theater there. That thing, you can still go in there and stand there. By the way, passion did a, they did a worship concert right there. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. A few years ago. Seeds 4,000. I'm going to tell you why they did that right there here in a second. If you look up, and I'm going to show this a little more clear, you see that if you look up and to the left of the theater, you'll see that almost looks like a puddle. Yes. That's what I was looking at. Yep. Yep. That was the, he built a hippodrome there that was like for chariot races. Like horse races? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big deal right there. And then if you look on that little, almost like that little peninsula thingy, that's where Herod's palace was, like probably right there. So go to that next one, Trinity, and you can kind of see it. So that's on the peninsula. This is a different angle. So top right of this picture, there's the theater. Paul does something very significant in that theater. I'm going to talk about in a second. There's the hippodrome on the left, bubbling, saying anything about that. And then down there in the red area, that's where Herod's palace is upper palace, lower palace. So that, that's all. Yeah. I just honestly, I never stopped being amazed by this stuff. That's you're standing in the book of Acts when you stand there. This actually happened. These are real things that happened to real people. That's it. Real Jesus down a real cross to the real you, to give me your life, you can really change it forever. So all this stuff happened right there. Okay. So let me, let me read a couple things that explain some stuff that happened right here. Number one, let me read the passage. And then I'll show you a picture that we know. Okay. So this was as the next day, Agrippa and Bernice came with great pomp and entered the audience room. Now bookmarked audience room in your head. I'm going to come back to that with the high-ranking military officers and prominent men of the city at the command of Festus. Paul was brought in. Okay. So this right here is right where Paul gets brought. Now notice is he comes in with a quote-unquote audience and it's clear it's a large audience. This is where Agrippa and Bernice, the little royal judicial family here, they're there. And then it says they came into the quote audience room. Now go to that next picture at Trinity, the one of the theater. So that theater is almost certainly the audience room is talking about. They know that for three reasons. From what I understand, there was not an audience room in the architecture of Herod's palace. Okay. Okay. So you need a room with a large audience where Herod and Bernice would have sat and Paul testifies there. It's kind of interesting. If you go to that theater, I've got pictures there. I couldn't find them. You can barely see it. Actually, if you look in the very lower bowl, like dead center, you can see a little shaded spot right there. Essentially what it was is like today, if you go to a maps game, there's box seats. That's a box seat. That's where Herod and Bernice, that's where they sat. It's almost like in Gladiator. They have that section right at the edge of it, kind of that same idea, like where they would sit there and be shaded. They do this thing. That's it. Okay. So I mean, dude, that's where Paul gives his defense of the gospel before these people, and that's the spot where he says that whole conversation of would you in such a short time convince me to be a Christian, the Apostle Paul stood right there and testified before all of those people in defense of the gospel. Now real quick, I didn't plan on doing this right here. Let me talk about the courage of this real quick. So Paul asks one of the people he talks to here is Herod Agrippa. This is the kind of thing you just miss if you just read real quick. So there's two names you get lots of in the Bible. You get lots of Mary's and lots of Agrippa's, lots of Herods. So this Herod is different from the other Herods that you would write about. So the Herod Agrippa that Paul testifies before in that little spot right there. His great, think about the courage of Paul. His great grandfather was Herod the great. That's the dude this mentioned in Matthew 2 that oh, by the way, orders all of the infants to be slaughtered under the age of two in an attempt to kill Jesus. Maniac. Okay. Yeah. Not just Maniac, but Paul is now testifying to the lordship of the resurrected Jesus to that guy's great grandson. Okay. Number two, Herod Agrippa, this mentioned in Acts 25 and 26. It's his dad that was, what was his name? It was Herod Agrippa the first. Yeah. Herod Agrippa the first is the one that's mentioned in Acts 12 who trivia, who see, have killed James. Yeah. And we would have tried to kill Peter as well if he'd not been miraculously released. That's right. In Acts 12, beheads James in prison's Peter with an intent to kill Peter. Yes. So do you know what you think about this? Like Paul standing in front of this guy, this clearly in his namesake, proud of his family heritage. And that guy knows Paul knows that guy's great-granddad tried to kill Jesus. Yeah. That guy's dad did kill James and I'm standing in front of him telling him that Jesus Christ was resurrected and his king of kings and lord of lords. It's not perfect, but it's almost like imagine if you're a Christian in Iran and you're sending before the great-grandson of the original like Ayatollah. And then that one put Christians to death, the next one, and then all of a sudden you're there. That took some courage. Like, I mean, just to stand there because you know, there's a good chance if you stand your ground. That's right. You're going to die. Well, you know, that's what this guy's family does. Exactly. We didn't talk about this. It's not, it's not in my notes. But the Herod that he's testifying before, I don't remember the details, but he killed a bunch of his wives. And there was something on the, when he's just really a moral guy is there's because Bernice is here with him and sister and is widely rumored that they were an incestuous relationship. Didn't Josephus record that or some like that? It was one is a couple of Jewish historians. It may have been Josephus, right? The exact names out the top of my head, but a couple of different ones reported the same thing that was widely rumored they were having an incestuous affair. So this guy would have been reviled. He had a lot of power, but he was known to be a really moral guy. Yes. But you say, I mean, I just, you know, I just want to say that man, the, in some ways, I feel like courage is a lost Christian conviction. Like Christians don't talk about, man, we need to be men and women of courage. Okay. Well, that's Paul. Yeah. I mean, that's Paul. A couple other things that are really interesting. So go ahead and show the picture of that little room, Trinity. So this wasn't discovered till a couple of years ago, when they were excavating Herod's palace on that little peninsula. So they found this, they've found this room a while ago and they didn't think anything about it. Well, then they started archaeologists got in and started cleaning things up. And here's what they found. I'm going to read it. Excavations uncovered inscriptions near the entrance. And again, remember, this is in Herod's palace. This is really, really important. Actually, let me read the passage and then let me explain it. So this is verse 23. Vinny called two of his centurions and ordered them, get ready a detachment of 200 soldiers, 70 horsemen and 200 spearmen to go to Caesarea at nine to night, provide horses for Paul so that he may be taken, maybe taken safely to governor Felix. The governor read the letter. So Felix is the guy by the time all this happened that lives here. The governor read the letter and asked what province he was from. Learning that he was from Celicia, he said, I will hear your case when your accusers get here. Then the Bible says verse 35, then he ordered, I skipped ahead some verses, then he ordered that Paul, this is important, be kept under guard in Herod's palace. So Paul was in a prison cell in Herod's palace. So they find this room. It's the only room like it in Herod's palace. They start digging around and you'll notice it's kind of underground. It's clearly dark, no windows. There's only one way in, one way out, this kind of looks like a cell. Then they find these, I think in Latin, these Latin inscriptions, near the entrance that read, and I'll do my very best on the Latin. My kids are studying Latin, I'm not saying Latin. Custodarium, which means custody or prison, and fermentari, which meant nearby, which meant both supply and police troops. So all of a sudden, what they started realizing was this was essentially the PD of Herod's palace. This was the prison cell. There's only one, one prison cell that kept in Herod's palace and all the weaponry for the PD right there was outright outside this room. So I just again, that right there, bro, that's exactly crazy. That right there is where the Apostle Stinkham Paul spends two years reasoning with these Roman political leaders trying to convince them of the gospel. I know it's awesome. It's awesome. It's awesome, man. One last thing I'll point out and then honestly, man, I just want to kick it to you. If there's anything you want to point out from this passage, you'll notice I think it's in Acts 24, where Paul appeals to his rights as a Roman citizen. I just want to point some out here. Then it's in, it's at the end of 26, I think. This becomes really important. Yeah, yeah, here it is. So Paul earlier in this chapter, he does the whole deal, "I appeal to Caesar." I talk about this in the sermon, where honestly, my theory is, because Jesus in previous chapters physically appears to Paul, and he tells him, "You must go to Rome." Paul then, even though it was a bad judicial decision, Paul earlier goes, "I appeal to Caesar." Now, at the end of this passage, it says this last thing. Verse 32 and chapter 26, and Agrippa said to Festus, "This man could have been set free if he had not appealed to Caesar." Now, I point two things out. One, it actually worsened Paul's judicial position to appeal to Caesar. Again, I think Paul's strategy was, he wanted to be the photon torpedo down the vent shaft of the death star, and that he wanted to personally share the gospel with the Roman emperor, Caesar. I think that was his strategy. But two, what I wanna point out is, so Paul leverages his rights as a Roman citizen. Number two, right here, he leverages the laws of the Roman Empire and the Roman judicial system to try to stand in front of Caesar. So I do wanna point this out. This, honestly, there was a little rebuked for me a few years ago from this passage. You remember in COVID, when there was all these cities where it was like marijuana dispensaries, strip joints, and abortion clinics stayed open, and they wouldn't let the churches open. And I had pastor buddies. Actually, McPherson's gonna be on later. Josh McPherson did it. Mark Devere, and the guys at Capitol Hill did it in DC, MacArthur and Grace Church over in California, they did it where they sued the governors. - Yeah. What did he call it? He called it like, "Oh, we're peacefully protesting or something like that because people are allowing protests." - Yeah. - And no one, yeah. So we're gonna call this a peaceful protest. - We're honestly, let me talk about that. So yeah, he did that. So they were allowing hundreds of thousands of people to be body to body with no mass during BLM riots, but churches couldn't gather, quote unquote, space to part with mass in California. And it was illegal. So John McArthur literally said, "Actually, this is a peaceful protest against the forces of darkness." - Oh, so good. - That's what he did. Now, I'll be honest, dude, this passage rebuked me. Is when those churches started doing that, as a Christian, there was part of me. It was like, man, I don't know if that's a good look for the church. We're suing governors. But then, honestly, you read Acts 24, 25, and 26. Paul throughout the book of Acts, he leverages and uses the laws of the Roman Empire against people, against Roman governmental leaders to work the system, to clear away any obstacle to the events of the gospel. - That's right. - And honestly, dude, I was like, you know what, every single one of those churches, A, appealed to God-given sources of just authority, and B, they were doing exactly what Paul did to leverage their rights for the events of the gospel. - 100%. What you see consistently when you see Paul speak throughout the book of Acts, and especially here is when he speaks to authorities, he is respectful. So he's not basically dishonoring them by a speech or is 100% like he speaks very respectfully to them, but he also speaks boldly to them. Like right here, he's sharing the gospel. Boldly is, we already point out he's life is on the line potentially, and he is speaking boldly about Jesus to them. But then, also, he presses his right. So oftentimes, we want to choose one of those. And he is able to do all three. He speaks respectfully to them. He honors God-given authority. Well, also speaking boldly about the gospel to that God-given authority, and pressing his rights before them. It's all those, you don't have to pick one. You can do all three. You can do that's really good. And man, I'm a real quick. We're going to do this a little quicker so that we can get to answering all the questions Christians are asking this week about UFOs and UAPs. The aliens, I always feel weird. Where's my tinfoil hat? Yeah, I was researched last night. And like, the algorithm for my search of the last most with this podcast has been aliens, weed, alcohol. You know, maybe the weed of alcohol goes with the aliens potentially. But yeah, I'm with you. Sorry, keep on interrupting you. Well, no. So what we'll do is quick. But the sermon and the passage were about us, like, hey man, our job is to win one. Time out, what do I do? How can I be used by God to win one? So I'm going to give-- I've kept an iPhone note for eight years now of we got a bunch of men and women at Lake Point that are just like knock it down as business leaders, as lawyers, as policemen, doctors, teachers. And a bunch of them are like legendary evangelists. They've figured out ways to leverage what they do for their vocation for the events of the gospel. Every time I hear one of those great ways to do it, I've stuck it at an iPhone note. I've got 11 ways. And I'm just going to rifle through them real quick. I'm going to do that in a second, just to help us as disciples. Is there anything you want to point out from X25 and 26? Oh, yeah, nerd out. Two quick things, because we do have to get to the aliens. Number one, and now I want to double click on something you said earlier. Paul had been in prison for two years. But what's interesting is before that, before he stays in prison for two years, that is where Jesus comes to him and says, you must stand before. I mean, like, basically testify to me in Rome. And so basically, Jesus gives some of promises. This is my plan. And then he has to still wait two years in prison. Oh, that's good. That's really good. But if I'm in prison for two years, I'm like, wait a second. I thought you said this must happen. And it did. But oftentimes, when we feel like we get a word from the Lord or a promise from God, we feel like it has to happen right away. Even think about all the way going back to the Old Testament. God gives Joseph a vision that one day his brothers are going to bow down to him and all that things. And then he spends the next, I think, 17 years of his life in slavery in prison. And it's just a reminder. He's been said before, but God's delays are not his denies. And in fact, often the times where one of those periods of waiting, God is doing things that are setting you up for your future that you couldn't have gotten to your future if those things had not had happened. I've experienced this myself. I went, I did a year of grad school in Oweko. And this was what I called the BC days before Chip and Joanna. And so the thing is about to say, I'm not. I promise I'm not knocking on Waco. But if you actually think of Waco, you know that everything I'm about to say is true. In the BC days, Oweko ought to say, Waco was a dump man. It was just, there's a reason Fixer Upper thrive there. And that's because like every house there was a Fixer Upper. It was a college town, but with like closed down or seven or eight at night, it was just not the best place. I like, I go there and I just, I'm miserable. And I, I'm the kind of guy like if y'all, you know, like, say Paul, hey, we're going to plant a lake point Alaska. By the end of the week, a big awesome. I do all the coffee shops. I had no places to eat. I'd be like, yes, it'd be awesome. I was miserable there. Like the analogy that I used to use when I was there is like, it was like my year of exile, like the, like the Israelites, but unlike the Israelites, I had a car. And so that's awesome. So I got my first year done. I left. Here's what's interesting though. So I hated that year. I felt like it was a waste. I was like, oh, I wasted a year. You know, I felt like, you know, God, this plant for me, this wasn't it. So on and so forth. What's interesting is while I was in Waco, I got a part-time job doing research for pastors from afar. This new company. Was it Docent? It was Docent. You started with Docent. I've never got that. I started with Docent. And so I'm starting to do research with that. That eventually leads me to my first full-time job out of Seminary, in which eventually leads me to the next one. I could go on and on, but literally I can trace being here to my year being there. Wow. I can trace being here, which I believe this is exactly what caused me my family's driving here, love it here. This was always God's plan. And yet it took that one year. It's another way of thinking, but sometimes we think of these things as detours, but sometimes it's those detours that are God's plan to get us to our destination. In fact. And so that's just one thing I want to just click on. A little example of my new detail that you could pass over, but it's actually a really powerful thing to God's plan is perfect, but it does require us waiting sometimes. Yeah, I'll click on that, and then I'll let you go on. But so the times Paul's in prison. Is Paul's in prison two times in acts, but three times in church history, if I were him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm sure he's sitting there in prison. I guarantee he was going like, man, I thought I thought God called me to be out playing church as a preacher and sharing the gospel. And dude, I bet in the minute he thought like, man, what a wasted time. But do you think about this? Paul wrote the books of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and Philemon. At least those four New Testament pistols, all in those moments. And so all those moments where Paul probably thought like, dude, what a wasted time. Those actually ended up being the moments that produced the things that have discipled every single Christian for 2,000 years. Yes. Those waiting seasons never wasted. Never wasted. God has a plan. Not just for the future, but also that he's going to do while you're there. That's right. While you're there. One other thing, and this is so interesting because these verses are back to back. Let me read them in kind of before I frame the issue for us. So when Paul is sharing with a grippa, he says this in his great, great line. Jesus is basically commissioning Paul. And then if you get to verse 17, he says, "Behold on to me five or two minutes." I'm in 26. I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes. They may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. They just great lines. That they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by doing a lot of good things for me. No, that's not what it says. by checking off religious, like, checklist. No, somebody says, says those things about by faith and me important. So it's so important. Because even think about who he's sitting for. He's sitting for a grip and Bernice on Godly people. I mean, just on Godly people. And they're only hope for people like this and for anybody is not anything they do, but only by trusting what Christ has done. Once and for all, we are saved by faith alone. And so, but what we see in the next verse, so it feels like it contradicts it, but it doesn't. It's actually a really important thing to remember. Because here, if you just stop there, they go, yep, is faith alone? No works are required. But then he goes on. And literally in the next verses, it says, I was not obedient, but I declared first those in Damascus and then in Jerusalem and through all the region of Deji and to the Gentiles that they should repent and turn to God. But here's a key point. Performing deeds and keeping with their repentance. So sometimes in my theology class, that I'll do for staff or residents or for others, I'll ask a trick questions. I'll say, do you have to do good works in order to be saved? - I see. - Or for salvation. And at first, like, oh, of course not. I'm like, what depends what you mean? Of course you don't in the sense of, there's not any amount of good stuff I can do to make God love me and save me. On the other hand, what you see in scripture is that those who are truly saved are also transformed. Yes, always. Always, those who are saved by Jesus are transformed by Jesus. To kind of put it in a different way. We always show the thief on the cross. It's an example where couldn't do anything - One part works. - Exactly, couldn't clean up his life at all. But then I said, well, what if Jesus actually didn't have him in or in the heaven that day? What if he said, actually, I'm gonna spare your life and you're gonna go free today? Well, you know what? What happened to him? His life would have changed. He would have been a different man. So there's three ways broadly that you can approach this idea of faith and works. One way is called legalism. That's the idea that I have to do good works in order to be saved. A second way is to fancy words, anti-nomeanism, but it's basically like another thing is easy-believeism. The other way for listeners, he just used a big theological word, anti means obviously against and nomos is law. So anti-nomeanism means against the law. - Exactly. Or anti-law. - Exactly. So as legalists think, I have to do all these things to get God to love me and to save me. And don't say no man or a person, again, from like easy-believeism, they're kind of person said, oh, I'm gonna raise my hand, I'm gonna walk the aisle. So I'm gonna go to heaven one day, but in the meantime, I'm gonna live like hell before then. - Doesn't matter what I do. Now that I'm saved, I can do whatever I want to do. Neither of those is the biblical way. Neither of those is the way of Jesus. Instead, the way of Jesus is this idea of true salvation always brings radical transformations. And you talk about Paul here. And I love him, 1 Corinthians 15, he says, I was the worst of all people. I persecuted the church, but by the grace of God, I am what I am. And then he says that grace is not without effect. I worked harder than any of them speaking of the apostles. And then he said, but not me, but the grace of God, that was in me. So I just always like to highlight this is, it's a both hand. We are saved by faith alone. And yet, as the first reformers, like people like Martin Luther and John Calvin said, that faith is never alone. - That's right. - The faith that truly saves is a faith that will truly transform. - There you go, big old man. - Yep, that's all I had. - That's a good man. Well, let me do this, because this passage is all about Paul leveraging, he's never in a moment. That he does not find a way to leverage to advance the gospel. So, I just want to do this real quick, because 95%, we got a whole bunch of pastors that listen, but 95% of people, they're working nine of fives, they're getting a hands dirty, they're swinging a hammer, they're running a business, whatever it is. So again, here's what I'm gonna do real quick, and then we're gonna talk about you, a thousand, aliens and all this stuff. Here's what I'm gonna do. This is from the iPhone nut. I'm gonna keep this for eight years. And I'm gonna use some names, and some I'm not gonna use names. But 11 ways, 11 examples from actual lake point men and women that are like, here's a way that a normal dude has found to consistently share the gospel or advance the gospel as work. All right, so here we go, 11 of them. One of them, and I will give all the details on this. This guy was a surgeon, one of our elders, shout out Chris Martin. He had a medical issue on a golf course while we were on Elder Street. I love you, Chris Martin. We rushed him to the hospital. He ends up, I think he had a burst of appendix if I remember right, and while we're down there in Florida, it was a Christian, so this is in the lake point dude, happened to a lake point dude. It was a Christian surgeon. The surgeon praised with Chris Martin, asked him, "Hey man, could I pray with you before the surgery?" And then, calls Chris's wife and prays with her before the surgery. So there's a whole bunch of them that I'm condensing in a one, but we got lawyers, doctors, teachers, and counselors that I've got in my iPhone note, who if you work a job where you're with people at like a crisis, in crisis moments in their life, dudes on a PD, you're with people in a crisis moment, you being able to step in and just say, Hey man, no pressure at all, if this isn't your thing, would it be okay if I prayed with you? - That's right. - And it tons of people do that, they take you up on that. All right, number two, shout out Eddie Dale. Eddie Dale, we got a guy, he runs a travel company, over, he built a great business travel company, runs tours over to England, radical evangelist. That dude shares the gospel. Him and his wife, Brittany, they just, they were in our root of group, it was awesome. They share Christ there, but they get in touch with. Tell me what you tell me, tell me his deal is. - It was him or even like a friend of theirs, we were hanging out and what they do is when they go to a city 'cause they're having to travel for work, they'll do the Uber, they won't recars with the Uber, and when they're there, they'll say, Hey, you know, is there a good local church that I could go to here? And so it's not like, hey, can I share my faith to you? It's like, hey, I'm in town, I would love to go to church. Is there a good church I can go to? And then it really is one of two things. It's, hey, they're like, yeah, actually, I go to this church, this is a good one and everything. Then they found a mutual brother or sister in Christ, and they can encourage each other, or they're like, ah, not really don't know much about that. And then that's kind of their end then to begin to have more conversations kind of a thing. - There you go. - And so yeah, just an easy, natural question that then can lead into one of kind of two responses. - There you go. - And other way it works. I thought that was brilliant. - So if you travel a lot, there you go, man. Is it? - Uber? - That's, honestly, that's brilliant. So the hack on this is finding and exploiting ways that don't feel, it's not weird cringe-invasive pressurgy. That's what all 11 of these are. It's like, oh man, this is an easy way that can feel normal to share my faith. All right, number three, I won't say this guy's name. We get a guy that runs a very, he's built a very great business in the area. And he does this deal with his employees where, you know, that doesn't matter if they're Christians, but he just says, hey man, we wanna be an organization that cares about making the world a better place. If anybody in his company wants to go on a mission trip, they will help fund the person's mission trip and they don't require them to use vacation time to go on a mission trip. - That's amazing. - Yeah, so it's like, dude, he's just finding ways to lie and do his not pressurgy. In fact, think about that. Those people feel like I'm getting a blessing. And he was telling me, he said people that aren't Christians take them up on going on mission trips because they're like, well, you know, I like helping hurting people. They go on a mission trip, they get saved. - Yeah, okay. - So business owner, that's a killer one. - Love it. Number four, shout out. This guy's name is John Howard. He's actually from my church in Nashville. So this is cheating. This is the only one that's not from Lake Point. John was a supervisor of very high up. I think he was a VP at Cisco, it's a food distribution company. And he would do this thing, get a massive downline. And he would record a short one to five minute thought from his devotion. And this was back in the day when you could send little voice messages to everybody's office phones. And he just told everybody, he was like, hey, once a week I'm gonna send a little encouraging thought your way from my faith. If you would like to listen to it, I think it'll encourage it. If not, not hurt my feelings at all. And that way nobody feels pressure or anything like that. He just consistently get it out. That's wonderful. Number five, very similar. Another dude that was a senior VP of a very large company that everyone, that everyone listens to podcasts has heard of. I think at one point he had like a downline of 70,000 employees. And he would just do this thing with his direct reports where he was always coaching them about personal development and reflection. And so he'd be like, hey man, I want you. He said, you always want to be reading something to grow as a leader. And he'd be like, here's what I do. I'm always trying to read something. This helped me grow as a leader. And something, this helped me grow as a person. And then for his people, he would just nonchalantly, just very, I mean, here's what I do. Here's what I do. Here's some leadership books I'm reading. And then he would just slip this in. And then I read the Bible for 10 minutes a day. And I read a leadership book for 10 minutes a day. And he would just give, and he said he would consistently have people who like, they'd never been in a personal development pattern before. And they just, well, I'm gonna start. I'll do that too. - I'll try it too. - I'm gonna read it and spark conversations. - It's cool. - All right, number six. So if you're listening, here's what we're trying to do. We're trying to give you ideas for how you can be on mission wherever you're at. - Yep. - This is what it says. Number six, now this one is also, and I won't use the guy's name. This is another guy that's built a very impressive business. It's actually built like five or six very impressive businesses. This guy, you know, I'm trying to omit details, not to embarrass anybody in a positive way. Okay, this guy owns a company who, were you here when we had the big freeze in Dallas and all the pipes burst? No, I don't think you were here. - No, I don't think I was. - That was 21. - Okay, I was wondering yet. - We had, I think it was like, I don't know, hundreds of millions of dollars of windows and things like that got stuck. - I don't know, do you? - Yeah, okay, that sounds right. - Yeah. - Well, we had that all over Dallas. People's pipes burst. And I mean, it was a thing. - Yeah. - This guy's company and I won't say what company. This guy's company does repairs on the type of thing that everyone needed then. What he did is, as a lake point member, he approached us and our missions department. And he said, "Hey, man, he heard about us trying to help everybody in Dallas." And he was like, "I will donate my company's services to you at cost. We will make no profit on any person in Dallas that you guys help with those home repairs." And then all we did is we were able to walk in to all these people who reached out to us and fix what was wrong with our homes because they couldn't afford it. And then we would tell them, "Hey, man, some of the people that did this, they're Christian people and they did this in the name of Jesus Christ." And they just gave them a little, here's a little note from that company. - That's so great. - It was amazing, yeah, amazing. I'll do this one. Here's another one number seven. I'll be around these real quick. Number seven, shout out Jimmy Dale. Jimmy Dale runs a plumbing company at Lake Point. Pray for Jimmy. His father just went to hug Jesus. And I love Jimmy, I love his dad. Jimmy Dale was just like, "Hey, dude, I want to influence a bunch of plumbers, turn of wrenches, swing and hammers." And so he intentionally hired a guy, actually a dude named Bubba Thurman, who was a key leader in the student ministry at Lake Point. And he hired Bubba essentially to function as the chaplain of his business. And so essentially, it was just like, "Hey, if anybody in our company, you got things going on in your life, that guy right there would love to walk with you through a hard season." - Love it. - So it wasn't just like, "Hey, this guy's going to preach at you and show the Bible down." It was just, "Hey, if you're going through a hard season, that guy wants to walk with you and your family." And Bubba would get up in their life. And hey, man, let me pray with you. Here's a book I'd encourage you to read, and just check in with them and walk with their family. - I love that one 'cause you hear a lot of times about chaplains for sports teams. - That's right. - And so it's like, "Yeah, it's like, "Why couldn't we have one for businesses?" And like you said, not trying to show it down people's throws, but we're like, "Hey, if you ever need anything, we got someone here that their only job is to help support you and your family." - That's a good one. - That's it. The next ones are a little different. One of them, this one's real quick. And I won't say this guy's name for obvious reasons. There's honestly, man, we got a few of these guys that they have just been blessed by God to make a ton of money. Just huge straight, man. God has just blessed these guys to make millions, millions of dollars. There are people like Lydia in the book of Acts who they just decided, man, I think God created me to make money so I can advance the kingdom. And they just, they're gospel patrons. And here's what they told us. They just came, and by the way, you may be listening, you don't go to a point. I'm talking about you doing it at your church. You do it at your church. But they essentially went, came to us and they went, man, if there's ever a unique opportunity for us to do something that advances the kingdom and y'all need some dollars to make it happen, I need you to let me know. And do sometimes we'll have things come up where it's like, hey, that building became available at pennies on the dollar. And because of one of those guys, we got that spot. And now thousands of people met Jesus because of what that got in there. - And they're a part of that story. That's it. - Like they are a part of that story. - So it's just that guy that goes, when you got a need, you let me know. And my family might want to take care of it. So gospel patrons. Number nine, I love this one. We got two guys that own CrossFit boxes. Either they did, they do or did. I took this note two, three years ago. And dude, here's what they did. They actually got this idea from each other. They essentially went, everybody comes, you have a little intro, the first class you go to. And they tell everybody, they just say this, hey, we want to help you in three ways. You're mind, your body, and your soul. And so they just tell them. They just tell them, hey, I'm a mind, body, and soul. And they just tell everybody, if you ever want somebody to pray for you, we are here and we want to know. And then they have a little book, they got a little table where they put a little CrossFit resources and you can buy your little wristbands and stuff. And they're like, hey, and there's a book on that table over there that changed our family's life. That's our gift to you if you ever want to be helped in your soul. And dude, just think about that. It's not pressurgy, it's totally normal. It's a guy that's helping you in your life. And man, what they tell me is the number of people, like they said, the percentage is more than 50%. So over 50% of people that walk in, eventually either grab them and go, hey man, walking through a divorce, would you pray with me? And or they go grab the little devotional book and they start reading it. - That is awesome. - There's a chiropractor that I think we both have gone to a different time, Dr. T. - Shout out to Dr. T. - Yeah. - A little bit on the whiteboards in those rooms. It's like, hey, if you need prayer for something, there's a lot of that. - Yes, that's it. - You don't have to be a Christian to go there, if there's many people who go or not. But they're like, hey, if you need prayer for something, put it on the whiteboard and we're in here. We'll pray for you. It's simple things like that. - Janet goes to Dr. T, I'm not a chiropractor. Every now and then I'll do it. But the two times I've been, I got a herniated disc. And so every now and then I get a mess. When you walk in to Dr. T's office and you're getting treatment, you'll notice on the board every single time. There's a prayer request right there. And he tells you, it's not weird. It's not cringe. He's just like, oh, that's what the last person asked me to pray for that. Hey, if you're a person of faith, would you pray for, think about how he's saying it. It's non-cringe, it's normal. Hey, if you're a person of faith, would you pray for Sarah, and then he'll tell him, hey, could I put something for you on the board? And my people are gonna be praying for you. It's so normal. - And most of the time people are gonna say, yeah, absolutely. - Even if it's not believers, they're like, yeah. - Yeah, you can pray about this, that's good. - Yeah, so shout out there. And then last two, these are different. These are different. One guy, again, whose name I will not say, is C-suite, dude, I think this is a Fortune 100 company. And this guy, especially in 2020 to 2022, was the era. Their company started enacting some organization-wide policies that made it hard to be a Christian. You know, it was like, hey man, we need your pronouns in your bio. They were some other things I won't go into. They just made it hard to be a Christian. And dude, you talk about courage. This pulls some worship out of my heart. This guy was an ambassador for Christ and an ambassador for the King of God because in the C-suite, in closed doors. And you know, hey man, Fortune 100, Fortune 500 company, that's doggy dog, you're a gladiator is what you are. And man, he like, this was a guy who just gently, respectfully embodied his convictions in those C-suite conversations. And no one will ever know this. But that guy's advocacy is the reason those policies got removed for hundreds of thousands of employees. And it paved the way for Christians to be able to live their convictions. - Wow. - That's a big deal man. - That's a massive deal. - That's a big deal. - Yeah, 'cause if people don't realize like, it's a doggy dog world to your point. And so part of it is, is like, if other people find out that he does that, then it's like, oh, they can do simple things. Like, oh, I'm gonna file an HR report and say that he said this in pressure and his faith is to try to get him. Otherwise, that is insane amount of courage. - There you go. It's courage. - It's courage. - And the last one is, and then if you got anything, you can dub to it. - I've got a quick one. - And then we're gonna talk UFOs. - Hard, emotional gear schedule. - Every time you say that, I'm always afraid this mannequin's gonna suddenly move. - I know. - And I might die if this happens. - Oh, it's creepy. - That's what I'm saying. The day we're talking about UFOs and extraterrestrials, then you got this besides-- - We have an non-human entity. (laughing) - Okay. - Sorry, Carlos. - Last one, we got a guy. I love this dude so much. Owns a bank. He's a banker. And a lot of people don't know this. And I won't bore, this is like a church nerd thing. I won't bore you with details. For fast-growing churches, it can be really hard to get loans to get buildings. And there's a whole bunch of reasons behind that. Most banks don't trust, it's not that they don't trust churches. They just like, they don't understand how it works. Because churches can't go, churches can't go. Well, we sell this many products per year. And here's our P&L. And it's like, so a lot of bankers don't understand it. Well, this guy's a, he's a very committed Christian. And he directed his company to open up an arm of his company that works specifically to help churches. Now, he always makes sure that it's trustworthy. And he's very, very wise about it. But he understands that world. And he leveraged his position in the banking industry to help churches that obviously, that they can trust to do their homework to get safe and wise loans for the advance of the kingdom. - That's so good. - So again, here's all you're looking at, man. You're just looking every single person everywhere, we're called to go wherever we're at. And how do I help win one more? And these are just, so what you need to do is hear those, if you're listening, pray and ask the Holy Spirit, which one of those could I put in place in my life and how? - So good. - To be Paul in Caesarea Maritime. - That's so good. What I love is a couple of things. I'll use one of these to segue into one little tip for me, from a story someone told me, is that some of these are direct. So some of-- these are things that you can directly do. Some of these are indirect, like the lone thing, where say, hey, as part of our business, we're gonna do this and it may not be a direct thing we do, but it will through that impact others. And guess what, as we said earlier, you are still a part of another stories that are being told. Like, I believe there's gonna be people one day in heaven, and then you're having some of the earth that they're gonna meet and say, I came to faith through that church, and it's because you gave them that lone so that they could continue thriving. And it's just, it gives me chills to think about. It's like, that's gonna be a glorious day. And so that you have a part in that story. So I love it, some of those are direct, some of them are indirect. But yeah, a large thing, I just wanna extrapolate and pull out of a lot of the ones that you mentioned, and really you said this a few times, is what so many of these did was, let's just be honest, it can feel weird sometimes for a Christian to talk about their faith. And then because of that, they then make it weird, or they think that other people think it's weird. But, you know, how you make it not weird by just making it normal. - That's right. - And talking about it, but in a normal way. And so I learned this actually when I was up in Washington state, got a mic up. He gave me this great little thing that he does, is you know, you come back from the weekend on a Monday, and his very natural was part of the conversation, "Oh, what'd you do this weekend?" And so you hear people that maybe are from non-Christian backgrounds that are saying different things they did. It could be stuff that we did too. You know, the ball filled or whatever. But sometimes they're doing some not-so-great things. And so when it gets to him, he just, he talked about some of the same things, yeah, I went to the ball field, we did this, and he's like, "Oh yeah, and then I went to church on Sunday." - That's right, man. - And he doesn't do it in a weird way? He just drops it, and then because the more he just makes it normal to talk about the things of faith, as people talk about what they love to do, and he loves Jesus and he loves his church, it should be normal for him to talk about it too. And then the more it's normal, then guess what? It's then normal for them to ask about it. And so I think that was a great little one. It's just coming back from work on a Monday, if people ask what to do, don't shy away from, "Oh yeah, we went to Lake Twain," or whatever your local church is, and heard a great sermon about X, Y, and Z, 'cause it might be that they're going through something in their life, like, "Oh, I need to hear about that." That's what they say. And so that's just a small one, but I think it's really effective as well. - Bro, half the battle is just coming out of the closet for Team Jesus. - Yeah. - Wherever you're at, that's seriously half the battle. It's just coming out of the closet for Team Jesus. - Yeah, man, 'cause that's what that, hey, I went to church this weekend. That's what that does. - Yeah. - It's a non-cringe way, just to signal, I'm on Team Jesus. - That's right. - Everybody knows it. - That's good. Let's talk you about this. - Your shift. - Okay. - So how you guys, as you know, Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Christ, live free, and change the world for God's glory. But here's the thing. Movement by definition, move. And so if you're not moving, then the question is, are you really being a part of the movement? In fact, somebody once said that too many churches are like football games. 22 people on the field in desperate need of rest being watched by thousands of people in the sense in desperate need of exercise. Hey, listen, we refuse to be a church like that. And so if you call Lake Point Church, your home church, and if you have not yet joined a serve team, I wanna invite you to take your next step right now. Text the word serve to 20411, and we'll help you find your spot where you can serve in person or online, on whichever serve team you are being called to serve. Hey, thank you for being obedient to God's calling in your life, and let's keep doing this together. - Let me explain. This is, we're gonna deep dive this thing real quick. Let me explain why we're talking about this, because I'm a Sushi Strat, I don't love talking about it. Actually, let me start with this. Let me talk about why I don't love talking about it. I don't love talking about it. I'm a regiaverse, this is from first Timothy. I don't love talking about it, because I think one of Satan's greatest strategies is not to destroy it, it's to distract you. And this kind of stuff is the thing that you get, there's two things in my experience. In times and aliens, I'm telling you there's two things that weird people get weirdly fixated on, and then they major in the minors and ignore all the majors. So here's what I'm saying, first Timothy one says this, as I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus, that you may command, not suggest, command certain persons, not to listen, devote themselves to myths and endless speculations. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work, which is by faith. The goal of our command, so check this out, he's saying, hey man, quit doing all this thing, where you're focusing on all the weird stuff and speculating, don't do that. He's like, actually, focus on the main thing. Know in Jesus and help people know Jesus. Focus on the main thing, why? Because the goal of this command, the goal of our command is love, that comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith, watch. Some have departed from these and turned to meaningless talk. So honestly, one of the reasons we're gonna talk about it because it is a big thing this week, my spidey sense tells me it's gonna be an even bigger thing in the coming weeks, but what I just wanna give a warning like as a Christian man or Christian woman, this is not the kind of thing you wanna start obsessing on. No. It's not good for you. It kind of even think of it like this on our conversation is I tell people, you know, and I think I may have said this before in the podcast, I hike a lot and I've never read a story that said, oh, a lost hiker found dead on the main trail. Yeah. It's always what happens is they wonder off on one of these little side trails and then they get lost 'cause they couldn't find their way back and then they find them dead because of that. And so, you know, kind of think of it like this is for the next bit, you and I are gonna be like, trail guys and I'm like, yeah, we're gonna go off on a little side trail that is interesting and there's some things we need to hit. But then hey, let's go and at the end of that, let's get back on the main trail so that you don't get lost on. No one Jesus. That's right. Helping people know Jesus. Exactly. No Christ, live free, change the world for God's glory. Amen. All right. That said, let's talk about that. (laughing) All right, let me start right here. Here's what we're talking about. Trinity, we throw that thing out, the screenshot. So this broke, was it yesterday or two days ago? Two days ago. Yeah, a couple days. Religious leaders told to quote, prepare now for UFO disclosure to unleash Bible changing revelations. I don't have the screenshot of it, but the Trump administration said within about six hours of that, they confirmed Trump administration and cash Patel said, yeah, actually we have, we've delivered the first kind of, they call it a tronch. We've delivered the first tronch of documents for disclosure. And so they're like, yeah, well, you're gonna see some stuff. Now we'll say, I started digging into this. This was not like some official government meeting, with like, you know, the type of pastors you would expect. But a meeting like that was called by one specific congressman, if I understand correctly, with a group of pastors and they did say something like that. Okay. So this, the internet on fire and my spotty sense tells me that wave is at the beginning and growing, it's not at its peak and, yeah, and cresting. So you wanna talk about real quick? - Talk about it. - All right, first of all, let's start right here. - Yeah. - So let me say a few things. - Yep. - One, if extra terrestrial life were discovered, that does not destroy your faith. I'll say a couple things here. Colossians one says this. He is the image, the invisible God, the first born of all creation for by him, all things were created. Both in and then it says the heavens and it says it, that means plural. The heavens is plural, multiple heavens, and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through him and for him. So this is what we're talking about in the next few minutes is something that's called biblical cosmology. It's a biblical understanding of how the universe is structured and the different entities in the universe as a biblical cosmology. In the Bible when it says heavens, the biblical writers understood there to be three heavens. That's why if you notice, it's in Acts where Paul says, no, no, no, it was in 2 Corinthians where Paul says he was caught up into the third heaven. - Yeah. - So the reason it says third heaven, this is a little Bible nerd moment, is in a biblical cosmology, they understood it. Stop me if I start lying here. That the first heaven was essentially the sky where the clouds are. The second heaven would have been where the stars are, what we know is outer space. And then they understood in the biblical cosmology when Paul says, I was caught up to the third heaven, that's like actual heaven thrown room of God. - Yeah. - Yeah. So when Colossians once is that he created all things in the heavens is stuck in first, second, and third heavens. So if there were things that he created in the second heavens, outer space, okay. I got a category for that. - Yeah, and just because people when they say, oh, it's gonna overturn everything. They think that everything's built on the idea that there's not life elsewhere. Where if you actually go through Christian history, there have been people throughout that have posited that there could be other universes, much less of their planets with inhabitable life. Like Athanasius, at least that God made of made other universes, Basil, God's creative power, is capable of bringing a greater number of heavens into existence. Cardinal Cusa, who is in the 1400s, says, life as it exists here on earth in the form of men, and was a plant, is to be found that is supposed in a higher form in the solar and stellar regions. - Do you say that? - Cardinal Cusa. - What era? - There were 1400s. - Interesting. - And so-- - I'm gonna read some Charles Spursian quotes here in a second. - And so you even kind of get it in the early, in the first four or 500 years, it wasn't talked about a ton, but a few people said it could be. And then you get to the middle of the evil era and there's actually a massive debate. You had some people who was like, no, it can't be. But then you had others say, you're limiting God's power. And of course, he can. In fact, Richard Baxter, Protestant. - Richard Baxter. - By the way, Richard Baxter is the dude on last episode that I had that prayer for when you're dying. That's Richard Baxter. - Yeah, and he says, We can't know for sure, but he basically says is not you should we shouldn't doubt that the vast or more glorious parts of creation are not uninhabited, but that they all have inhabitants and several to their magnitude and glory. So he's basically saying it's there. So basically what I'm trying to say is throughout Christian history, there have been people who've said, yeah, it could be and it doesn't overturn their faith whatsoever. Now I'm going to cut to the chase. I do not think that's the case and I'll explain why here in a second, I think there's some supernatural elements what's going on. But our point is, hey man, if that were to be a thing, it's like do that, that doesn't change anything for me. Okay, so on yours, I just discovered these two days ago. So apparently Charles Spurgeon, if you're listening and you don't know your church history, Charles Spurgeon is known as the Prince of Preachers, arguably the greatest preacher in church history since the Apostolic era in Great Britain was passing a church like 10,000 people before there were microphones. Okay, I'm going to read you four Charles Spurgeon clothes, this blew my mind. Okay, number one, I think it is no stretch of the imagination. So he's writing the late 1800s to believe that as this world is only one spec in the creation of God, there may be millions of other races in the countless worlds around us. This is Charles Spurgeon in 1890s. Okay, here's another one. And number two, Charles Spurgeon, it may be true that all those majestic orbs that stud the Midnight Sky are worlds filled with intelligent beings. And it is much more easy to believe that they are than that they're not. For surely God has not built all those magnificent mansions and left them untenanted. This is the rare case where I'm going to go, I'm out on Charles Spurgeon on this one, but this is what he thought. Well, I didn't think of this to know when you're saying it, but arguably the three greatest preachers ever. Obviously, apart from Jesus, me, Possible, Chrysostom, Spurgeon, and then Billy Graham. All three posited at least the possibility of it, because I'm going to read a Billy Graham clothes. Okay. And then I'll wait. Do you have one? Well, this might be part of yours, but I have a long quote that I'm going to save. But he just says this, the Bible doesn't tell us whether or not there's intelligent life on other planets, although I find nothing in the Bible that would exclude the possibility. So he's basically saying in that one, like, hey, it's possible. I got a really interesting quote from him in a second. I'm going to save it. Let me finish these Charles Spurgeon number three on Charles Spurgeon. I cannot tell you how many races of intelligent beings there are besides the hierarchy of angels, but it is not at all improbable that there is many worlds as there are grains of sand upon the seashore and perhaps every one of these teams with inhabitants more than our earth does. This is Charles Spurgeon, 1880s, 1890s, last one. It may be that every starry world, teams with myriads of intelligent inhabitants, it is much more likely that it should be so than that it should not be so seeing that God is not in the habit of creating anything in vain. Now, what I will say is I feel almost sacrilegious saying this. I disagree with this theology on that because I know because what the Bible says is that the purpose of the heavens is to display the glory of God. I think the reason that the universe is seemingly eternal is to display the eternality of God. I think that the Bible considerably more leans towards, actually no, God created humankind in his image and that I do not expect to find anything else. I'm going to cut to the chase and give it to my hat real quick. I'm super skeptical about aliens, I'm super confident in the reality of demons. Well, even before we get there to kind of rephrase something you said is that if the universe revolves around us, then it does seem like a massive waste of space. But if it does not revolve around us, but revolves around the creator, and it's supposed to point to him in his glory, then it actually is fitting of how massive it is and how glorious it is. It's pointing to us and revolving around us, but it revolves around the creator. And so I think that's kind of a different way of what you said. That is not a massive waste of space, but actually it's something that even still doesn't capture the massacres of God. And so yeah. Yeah. Well, I won't go. This Carl was Carl Sagan. He used to say Carl Sagan, the famous, I think it was like 1970s, atheist, his pale blue dot thing. And he would always say that is like, man, can't be a God. This is where this tiny little speck and I'm like, well, bro, that's actually the whole purpose. Just to show us what is man that you are mindful of us because the scripture there says, oh, he just, that God pretty much holds the heavens in just the span of his hand. Like this, that it is pointing to the massiveness of the creator of the heavens. So keep going. Oh, wait. Last Charles, because here's what's awesome is he says that if there are aliens, he says what they're going to be most amazed by is seeing a forgiven sinner. I'm going to give you this is amazing. I can't. Amazing quote. The Charles Virgin, if you range all the stars around and if it be so that every star is filled with a race of intelligent beings, yet me thinks among unfalling existences, there can be no such marvel as a forgiven sinner at any rate. He is a wonder to himself and he will never cease admiring the grace, which pardoned and accepted him. Amazing. Even if it is agreeable. I know. It's really well seen. I think it's cookie, but okay, man. That's fine. So that's biblically why I'm going to give a couple other reasons why honestly, I'm real skeptical on the aliens thing. Trinity, well, you sure that will heat map, show this heat map, okay. So what you're looking at right there is every recorded UFO sighting since 1906. They seem to really like one country. So just what I want to point out to you is it quote unquote, just so happens that the country that is most into things like sci-fi and all this sensational media and that kind of thing, it just so happens that that's also the nation where virtually every UFO sighting has ever taken place. Yeah. It's a little weird to me. And it's also weird because in the places where the heat maps are most intense is where we have the most technology to be able to capture them and yet we can never get a clear picture of video of them. Now some people disagree with you. Yeah. Some people would. Yeah. So on this little heat map, I think it's funny. So there's a Twitter ex account that I follow this like a is a humor account. It's called epic maps. Epic maps was trolling this reality and they posted this how alien sea earth. So it's one what I'm trying to encourage people is like, hey man, you need to have a healthy skepticism. Yes. Like the conspiracy guy that is all in on this stuff. And then last thing, it's really interesting to me of everybody that you would think would be in on the aliens thing. It'd be Elon Musk to me because he's like all about space travel, generally a secular world view. I screened out of this like a year ago. Musk tweeted this. So this ad-doge designer, he tweeted this quote from Elon Musk in a press conference. If I was aware of the slightest evidence of aliens. I would immediately post out on X. This would be the most viewed post of all time. We have 9,000 satellites up there. We've never had to maneuver around an alien spaceship yet. And then he retweeted his own quote and you said, yep. Yeah. So I'm just saying like, hey man, here's what I want to say. There is much, much more evidence for the existence of God than the existence of aliens. And if you or somebody that you know is drawn to accepting the one and rejecting the other, you need to ask what's going on in your heart. It's a good way of saying it. So I just want to say that. I just want to point that out. You got anything else here before I start talking about this? No. Just briefly, if you talk about the demonic part is, I was doing some research into this sort of last day or two as I know we were talking about it. What you see if you actually just go look at reputable scientists, like Neil deGrasse Tyson and guys like that. Most of them would say, yeah, surely in a universe this fast, there must be life. Definitely life, but then the idea is intelligent life. You know, it must be, but then they all talk about what was called the Fermi paradox. Fermi was, I believe, a physicist. He said, same thing. It's like, surely with the amount of time that's gone by, there must be out there, but where are they? Because there's no evidence that we have found kind of a thing. And so what they, most of the scientists would say is that number one, the universe is so fat, a vast that even if they did exist, they couldn't possibly have gotten here in time. Also if they were destructive in nature, they probably would have already destroyed them. So what I'm saying is, now again, we're not agreeing with them that it, oh, surely it exists. Their point more is that I gleaned from a lot of them is that, yeah, it probably exists. But most likely they have not visited us yet, because there's no evidence whatsoever. So again, some of your, like this isn't just a thing or a Christian thing, like the brightest scientists who have no faith in Jesus whatsoever have all said, even if it probably, they probably exist, they probably could not have gotten here by now. And so that's just something to take in mind to why we should be skeptical that they're actually here. I think it's just right, but that they're here. That was just another little thing I'd found. All right. Yeah. Well, let's go, let's go there deeper because we do, as Christians, I think we got to have like a cosmology that helps us get, gives us a category for, I don't know how you say it, like seemingly non-human intelligences, well, hey, guys, we have a category for that. They're called angels and demons. That's right. So first of all, before we talk about anything we say here, this is the spot where we warned about at the beginning, everything we're getting ready to say is speculation, which is something that we're not supposed to quote, devote ourselves to. So is it okay to try to make sense of it? Yes. Is it wise to devote yourself? yourself to it. Definitely not. So here's what I would say is there's a reason that the Bible says that the Bible calls them unseen things. There's a lot we just don't know and you need to be okay with that. So what I would say is if you start putting some of these phenomenon in a biblical cosmology, hey man, what a lot of people may be calling aliens, the Bible might call things like cherubim, seraphim, angels, archangels, thrones, principalities, demons and powers. We have categories for strange phenomenon. By the way, I just want to say this. This is like contra atheism. You are not going to find a human culture in all of human history that doesn't report some sort of things go bump in the night vibes. Like you didn't, you live in a strange, a spiritual world where there is an unseen realm. Yes. And that stuff is real and really happens. That's exactly right. Um, do you ready to get into some of the demonological part of this? Oh, wait. Let me start with Billy Graham. Okay. So here I'll, I'll start with why? So here's where I'll cards on the table, skeptical what aliens confident about demons. I think the majority, vast majority or all, however you do it, uh, maybe demonic manifestations. Now one, I do want to say this. Um, I think everybody with a head on their shoulders should go, hey man, if you think that there is not technology that governments have, that they don't disclose that they have, uh, if you don't think that stuff exists, um, man, I've got oceanfront property to sell you and Dallas. I like to talk to you like. So one, I think we got to have a category for like, hey dude, there's probably technology that governments have that they don't disclose. That's what governments do. That's right. On the other hand, there's also stuff that that doesn't really explain. So here's one, uh, Billy Graham said this in his book about angels that was written in 1975, Billy Graham quote, I am convinced that these heavenly beings exist, talking about angels and that they provide unseen aid on our behalf. I do not believe in angels because someone has told me about a dramatic visitation from an angel, impressive as such rare testimonies may be. I do not believe in angels because this is the key quote, because UFOs are astonishingly angel-like in some of their reported appearances. I do not believe in angels because ESP experts are making the realm of the spirit world suddenly seem more and more plausible. I do not believe in angels because of the sudden worldwide emphasis on the reality of Satan and demons. I believe in angels because the Bible says there are angels and I believe the Bible to be the true word of God. So here you got, you got Billy Graham going, hey man, there are unseen realms, angels and demons. And some of what people report as UFOs, maybe that's right. I'll tell you why I think is very frequently demonic manifestation. Number one, Ephesians 2 refers to Satan as quote, the prince of the powers of the air. I think that's notable. You got that. Number two, dude, you don't got to agree with anything I say. And again, this is all speculation. In Matthew 24, Jesus is talking about what will happen at the end, more towards the end times. This is a little spec- this very tinful hatty. He says, but about that day or hour, nobody knows, not even the angels in heaven nor the sun, but only the father, verse 37, because as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Now one aspect of the days of Noah, that's Genesis 6. That's when you have the sun, the fallen angels, sons of God. Nephilim, you guys did a whole thing on it. That's when you have supernatural beings visiting earth. Honestly, dude, this is, I know this is weird, go listen to the Nephilim episode that they did without me, seemingly interbreeding. So with humans, and then you end up with hybrid, natural and supernatural beings that were walking the earth and visiting the earth in the days of Noah. Some people speculate that some of what Matthew 24 is saying is that type of phenomenon will escalate again now. I'm going to tip my cards. I don't think that's what Matthew 24 is doing because the next verse says that it's really about people were just doing their normal lives and got surprised by coming judgment. Yes. But I don't, I don't think it's totally out of the realm to say that might be one thing it means by as in the days of Noah's. There you go. Yeah. And then let me do this, I'm going to kick it to you and then I got a lot here. Oh, yeah. Keep going. So then this, honestly, this shot me. So JD Vance, have you seen this clip? Oh, yes. So JD Vance is doing his podcast interview. This was last year, and I saved him my little iPhone note. And this lady just asks him as the new VP, what do you think aliens? Bro, listen to what he says here. Play this thing. Because Tulsi Gabbard says that she believes there are aliens. Do you believe that? You know, I don't, it's interesting. I will say that I do or don't believe it. I mean, I'm a big believer that there are things out there that we can't explain. And so if another person sees an alien, maybe I see an angel or a demon. So I'm a big believer that there are like spiritual forces working on the physical world that a lot of us don't see and a lot of us don't understand and a lot of us don't appreciate. But you know, is it aliens or is it our guardian angel or is it aliens or is it a not so guardian force that doesn't care about us? Or in fact, actively wishes this harm. I don't know the answer to that question. What I try to do is I try to say my prayer is lovely. I try to be as good as a person as I can be and I try to do a good job. And hopefully that's all. So two things. Yeah. One, you got to dig a vice president of the United States, who even if you disagree with politically, he's a brilliant man. That's right. This is a brilliant man. I think he was Ivy League educated, like, you know, who's the way has access to information you don't have access to and it's seen things that you have not seen. And that dude is going where you see an alien. I might see an angel or a demon. That's a vice president of the United States. Got some weight. Got some weight. Got a little weight. And then I'll do one more and then I'm going to kick it to you and talk about some stuff. Show that show that little screenshot. I didn't want to play the whole video because it's a little weird. So this is a representative, United States representative, Anna Polina, Anna Polina Luna. Now she gave this quote. It was three days ago. Look at the quote. I didn't want to play the whole thing, but I watched the clip to confirm that the quote is accurate. Here's what she said. I don't call them aliens. Now she doesn't talk about angels or demons, but she says, listen to close to what she says. I use the term interdimensional beings. Now, there was a congressional hearing in 2024, where they started, you know, some people were purportedly bringing out UAP stuff. And if you go back and listen to some of that stuff, which I do not recommend, by the way, I just saw little clips on X consistently, they veer away from saying extra terrestrial life or aliens. And they consistently use that language, interdimensional beings. Now here's why that's interesting to me as a Christian. All this speculation, I got my tinfoil hat on. None of my faith is built on this. I know it sounds weird. In a biblical cosmology, what we have is that God created one universe with two realms. There's the scene realm. And there is the unseen realm. Okay. We as humans, we operate exclusively in the scene realm. But throughout the Bible, angels and demons are beings that manifest in both the scene realm and the unseen realm. I'll just say this, dude. Another way to say that is interdimensional beings or inter to use biblical language, inter realm beings. So, dude, now, there's a whole bunch more reasons, in my opinion, to go, hey, man, there's like some overtly demonic things that surround this. I'm going to pause here. Is there anything you want to interject right now? I was ready to go there. I've got some examples, both, by the way, I've got examples. I was going to say, hey, first non-christians and what they say. Oh interesting. And then what Christians have said, but no, it's really what we've said so far in our conversation to kind of extrapolate and bring it down to two things. Number one, extraterrestrial life can exist and it would not overturn an ounce of the Bible. We've said, it could. We don't necessarily believe it does, but it could end up wouldn't overturn an ounce of the Bible. And many, if not most alien quote-unquote encounters were most likely encounters with demons. It's really that's pretty much exactly what I believe is that extraterrestrial life can exist and it would never turn the Bible. And many of not most of the encounters that people talk about are probably encounters with demons. It's probably, this shouldn't surprise us. And what I mean by that is that if you actually go to the Bible, you see in Corinthians where Paul says that worship given to idols was actually worshiping communion with demons. Well, but think about what those idols shape took. The idols would often take the shapes of things like birds, the sun, a hawk, a dog, if you're talking about the new bits in ancient Egypt. In other words, things that were natural phenomena that people would then take and then demons would appear to them in that way or receive worship in that way. It shouldn't surprise us because that was fitting for the culture of that time. It should not surprise us in our culture in the last hundred years that this has become a thing. If demons would say, "Ooh, I'm going to lean into that then." And I'm going to use this as a method again, people's hearts and their minds and their souls, shouldn't surprise us. Is that accurate of what we've been saying? So let me give you some testimony in terms because you're like, "Well, what [BLANK_AUDIO] it's demonic. Well, let me just give you some testimony that first non-christians have said in things that they have heard. And then we'll talk about what Christians have encountered as well. So wait, let me get a run and start into this. So what he's getting ready to do, this is, honestly, the first time I heard this, totally blew mine. Totally blew mine. So let me give you five little fast facts that and this is going to get a run and start and what are you about to read. That are reasons that I go, there is overt demonic activity around this stuff. Number one, there is a high correlation between people experimenting with occult and new age practices and quote unquote alien abductions. That's number one. So you're, amen. When you're messing with that stuff, that stuff's real. It's really demonic. Okay. Number two, there is, and this is some what you're going to read. Dude, it's free. It's, it's freaky and it's weird. People who have had, who report quote unquote alien abductions, they consistently report messages from these quote unquote beings that are explicitly anti-Christ. Yes. And explicitly reject Jesus, like with specific, with specificity. So that's number two. And I'll just remind people, Galatians 1-8. But even if we or an angel from heaven, or I might add the heavens appear to you and preach another gospel, let them be accursed. Galatians 1-8. Number three, those messages, and you're going to get into a little of this, that people report receiving, often revolve around humanity being prepared for a spiritual ascension process. Number four, the claimed messages often encourage a one-world government. By the way, you get to rebel, are you going to read something about that? No, keep going. Okay. That's the same. I don't know what you're reading. So you're coming in blind. I don't know what he's going to read. That's great. So one-world government. By the way, you get to the end of the book of Revelation. What is Satan tried to accomplish in the end before Christ returned? It at least seems like a one-world government. So you got there often to protect the environment and avoid nuclear war. That's a little side note. And then last one, bro, this is nuts. In multiple claimed abduction experiences, the people that it happens to specifically say the experience ended when they invoke the name of Jesus Christ. Bro, blow your mind. Now, I don't know what you're going to read. So we're going into this blind. You do whatever you're going to do. That's good because so much what you gave. I'll give some stories to color and really hitting a lot of the themes that you just hit. So these first ones are again, these are from non-Christians. I want to say these are from non-Christians. They don't have a bent towards this in terms of faith. These are just non-Christians. So first one is Whitney Whitley Stryper. He's American author known for horror fiction, but also non-fiction of count of alleged alien encounters. And he writes, the visitors seem to consistently and profoundly opposed to the idea of Christ. Interesting. Big thing that he quotes. You also got John Keele. He is the author of the Mothman prophecies, movie that was made, I think, 20, 25 years ago on that. He already said John Kusak. No, no, it wasn't Kusak. I'm not a gear. It's Richard Geer. Yeah, it's Richard Geer. Man, he's so likable. It was made like a book that this guy wrote. And so and he, and basically Keele was kind of, he kind of takes like mythological things, analyze them and stuff like that. And so he argued that the entities behind UFOs were often deceptive and shape-shifting. And one of his most famous quotes were the UFO manifestations seem to be by and large merely minor variations of the age of demonological phenomenon. Bro, he's a non-Christians fan this guy. Wow. Yeah. Dr. Carla Turner. She had a PhD in English, had an alleged alien abduction encounter and begins really diving into this. Again, she's not a Christian. It was not a Christian apologist, but she summarized alleged alien behavior in this way. The entities lie consistently while that matters as Satan is called the father of lies. And get this, they take control of human beings against their will. Well, that sounds kind of familiar. Like the entire Gospels where Jesus consistently encounters demons who do just that. The idea of, I think the example of the person who would be thrown into the fire against his will. You also find him a lot of anti-Christ elements from different stories like Jesus was only a man is what the aliens would say. Christ is not uniquely divine. Humanity is evolving beyond Christianity. All religions are equally true. The Bible is corrupted. Humanity will soon receive a new revelation. All the things that you would find if you read the book of Revelation talking about the anti-Christ or his forces. If Galatians 1A became reality, that's what it would sound like. Exactly. So those are not Christians. Again, saying things that just on hearing them, that sounds a lot like what we would find of what demons and Satan would do. But then in terms of Christians, there's a group of people who, they were used to be into this, but then came to faith and have really started researching it. And what they have found is what exactly what you found. They found that there were a lot of people who, if they invoked the name of Jesus or began singing him, all of a sudden, the alleged and alien counter would all of a sudden stop. And they found that fascinating. For example, one of the cases involved a brand new Christian called Bill D. During alleged alien abduction, he cried out, "Jesus helped me and the encounter immediately stopped." And so when the person that was doing this research, contacted this, basically, UFO investigation organization, to see if they had similar cases, they would only talk to them if it was off-record. Really? Because it would ruin their careers, if they said on the record, but they would go on to tell them. And so the truth was that they all knew of similar accounts of abductions being stopped by people praying, singing hymns, or calling on the name of Jesus. But because it was religious and nature, not scientific, the evidence was deliberately ignored and hidden. Fascinating. And so yeah. So really, I'm just sharing those stories to say everything that you were saying, because people here say, "Oh, you guys, this is just your bent in your opinion." We're sharing these opinions based on the testimony of both non-christians and how they describe these encounters and the entities, alleged entities behind them. And what Christians, as they've actually researched into it, I've found as well. Dude, I'll give another one. Kind of corroborates. So it's interesting, and I won't use the person's name, but it says somebody very close to me. I shared this story years ago. I had somebody very close to me that was going through a season of extreme depression, and a person not given to that extreme depression. And they walked into a biblical counselor's office and reported the depression, and this very wise counselor, over the years, he had developed a checklist. And he was like, "Hey, I think a lot of times what's going on with people is it's not just mental or emotional spiritual." And he said, "Would you take this home and would you check anything that's become part of your life?" You know, some of it was like what you'd expect. Overuse of alcohol, drug usage, past psychedelics, stuff like that. One of them was something like fixation or something like that. Basically, you're really into aliens and UFO stuff. And he had that on the checklist. And this guy read the checklist and he was like, "What the heck? Why is this even on here?" And sure enough, he was, and nothing weird, but he was just like that guy who, when there was something on the national geographic channel, the underwater alien show, he was like, "You know what? That's interesting." And he had been watching a lot of it. And he was like, "Man, honestly, I had started thinking about it a lot." And so he checked it. And he came into the biblical counselor the next time, and the guy noticed the answer about it. And this biblical counselor said, "Hey, man, basically what we're saying." He said, "In my experience, very frequently, when people have spiritual and emotional issues, there's a high correlation between them getting really into the UFO alien thing." And he just told him, he said, "I'm going to be really honest with you. I think a lot of that stuff is demons and it's demonic." And so I want to ask you during our time to get that out of your life. And then if I remember correctly, he like prayed, I don't know how to say it, like almost like a deliverance prayer. I want to pray over you for freedom from any demonic influence. And sure enough, dude, this guy that very, very close to me, that had been struggling for months with dark depression, he said, as soon as I got out of that stuff, gone. Wow. Never struggled again. Wow. So that's anecdotal. But it's like, here's where I'm going. It's like, hey, dude, there's too much smoke for there not to be some kind of fire there. Exactly. Because even when I was doing some reading around some of the people who were not Christians and what they wrote, the consistent thing was an almost all the stories of alien encounters. It's never good. It always leaves the people profoundly harmed and disturbed, which you would expect if these were encounters with demonic forces of some kind. So again, what we've said, again, just to remind people, and then I've got a great quote from Billy, I think that helps in terms of just not getting us too caught in the weeds in this little side trail, but getting us back to the big things. But is if for some reason ever came out that extra treasurer intelligent life existed and that they visited, it doesn't overturn an ounce of the Bible. Jesus Christ was still raised from the dead. Exactly. And most of the encounters that we hear about most likely are encounters of demonic forces. And so it's not to be trifled. And because of that, I think that's also a warning to people who want to dive into this stuff is like, hey, when you begin dancing with the devil, he'll dance back with you. And so just if anyone who's listening to this or watching this is really be very careful what you're getting tangled up with because this is the kind of stuff that the enemy is always looking for a crack is like water. He will find the crack and he'll get in. And this is one I was reading and this is a great quote from Billy Graham. And I read the first part earlier where he says the Bible doesn't tell whether or not there's intelligent life or life from other planets or if I find nothing to buy that would exclude the possibility. But if there is life on other planets, then God created that life for God created everything. Furthermore, if there are beings from other planets that have souls and can know God, then God created them in His image. Just see did us and you can be sure that He has somehow made it possible for them to know Him. So He's saying that if it happens, it's not over turning. But I love what He's about to do. He's just so brilliant at this because He's about to do what we started to in this conversation. He says, "Don't get sucked into this stuff. Remember the big things. Don't get sucked into meeting the speculation." We may never know for sure if there is life on other planets. The distances to other star systems are almost unimaginably vast. But we do know this. The heavens declare the glory of God. The skies proclaim the work of His hands. And we also know that God sees us and knows all about us. As Jesus said, even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. It's interesting to speculate about life on other planets. But God is concerned about our lives right now. As we should be. Come on, Billy. Have you put your trust in Christ? And are you living for Him? If so, someday you will go to be with Him and all your questions will be answered. Come on, Billy. Way to go, Billy. I mean, Billy. Come on, man. It's hard to beat that. Oh, man. Let me before I close this out. I'll do two other just little quick details. I'm not even sure I'm in on these. But there are like Michael Heisener's mess with this. There's a couple of the guys that mess with this that they've tried. That what they're trying to do is give people a biblical category for phenomenon around this. I'll shoot you real straight. I'm not sure I'm in on this stuff. But if the people, the question people end up asking, "Well, hand, if it is like a demonic thing, what do you do with if it ever comes out that they supposedly recovered bodies or biologics?" And then, you know, what about spacecraft? Like demons don't need ships, do they? Okay. So again, this is super tinful, haddy. I don't think I'm in on this stuff. But if you were trying, if you were trying to fit those things into a biblical cosmology, one on the body's thing, I will shoot you straight. This is interesting. Again, you really do need to go listen to the Nephilim. Put that in the show notes, please. The Nephilim podcast. Because there's no getting around it as weird as this house. Genesis 6 seems to clearly describe, quote unquote, the sons of God. And when it says that, it's talking about, seemingly fallen angels. And then the book of Jude specifically, did you guys mention that? Yep. Yep. This book of Jude specifically mentions that those fallen angels that descended and then interbreeded with the human race. The book of Jude mentions that God judged them. Okay. And Genesis 6, it just seems to overtly mention that there were fallen evil angels that did intermary with the daughters of men as what it says. And may have created like hybrid natural supernatural beings. And so if you were trying to dovetail, recover like a body into a biblical cosmology, some guys have done that. And then go, hey, that honestly could that maybe what that is? Yeah. I don't know if I'm in, I'm just saying. And then this one's even more of a stretch to me, but I'm just going to say it because people ask, it's on the spacecraft thing. I have seen guys, you know, honestly, this kind of thing where I'm kind of like, I don't really care. I'm focused on people becoming more like Jesus and all the bunch of people getting saved. But what some guys have pointed out is if you read the book of Ezekiel and the way that you know where I'm going on. I think I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you read the book of Ezekiel and you start going, well, how do angels appear in the book of Ezekiel? You get in the best that a 5,000 or 3,000 year old Hebrew language, the best they could do. Bro, some of it sounds like some sort of crisp. I'm looking at it right now. I'm just the appearance. This is, I'm reading it. This is Ezekiel one. As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels. They sparkled like topaz and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. And as they move, they would go in any one of the four directions, the creature faced. And the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. The rims were high and awesome. All four rims. I saw it could go on. Now again, I don't think this is a thing. But I'm just saying, if you were trying to dovetail it, you could go, well, man, hey, man, if that's how angels appear, then why is it so crazy to think that's how fallen angels might appear? And then you sort of stack that on top of, hey, man, he's the father of lies. He's going to create, try to create plausible, so anyway, I don't know if I'm in. I'm just saying. That's right. I'm just saying, so it sounds weird. Yeah. Let me give some last pastoral encouragement. So let's shut this down. And then I got to get to this brother conversation with Josh and Ryan is crazy. We're just, yeah, crazy talking pastors politics, all things. So final pastoral encouragement. I strongly encourage every single person not to get sucked into this deal. Hey, man, the Bible tells us to have nothing to do with the deeds of darkness. And if this is what we believe they are, I'm not going to mess with that stuff. Number two, one of Satan's strategies is to get people to devote themselves to myths and endless speculation. Hey, man, you're supposed to keep the main thing the main thing. What's the main thing? To no Christ, live free and change the world for God's glory. If you're, like, that's the main thing. Don't start giving level eight attention to things of level 0.002 importance. That's right. So I will say that. I already read the first Timothy verse. Hey, man, don't mess with that. It's going to lead to quote departing from these things the main things and turn to meaningless talk. The last thing I'd say is, if you're a Christian, we don't do fear. So we don't let no matter what happens, we don't less stuff. Fear not. That's right. We don't do fear. So what I would say is, hey, man, maybe you're not a Christian. What I'd say to you about this stuff, you're listening to this pod and you're going, dude, there at least seems to be something about what they just said. What I would say to you is, hey, man, if there's a darkness, that means there's a light. That light has a name and his name is Jesus Christ. And the Bible gives us a promise for anybody that bends their knee to the Lord, but Jesus Christ greater is he that is in you than, and I'll change it a little bit than whatever is in the world. That's our encouragement. That's good. Paul can I hand with you close to prayer? I'd love to. As father on that note, I do pray that we would always be people who keep the main things, the main things. Even thinking back to what we talked about in the first part of this pod, you have the apostle Paul, brilliant man could have gotten sucked into all these different things, but Lord, he lived his life, living for you and telling others about you. And Lord, I want to pray that same thing for anyone listening that we would not get sucked in to vain speculation about UFOs and aliens or anything else, but rather God, we would live our lives before you and every day wake up and say, God, what do you want me to do today? How would you have me live? And so Lord, I pray that we would do that. Lord, I want to ask that you would guard people getting sucked into this and being influenced by the forces of evil. And I want to ask God that, rather, you would help people see the light that is you and live as light in the world around us, God. And God, I want to pray that you would give all of the men and women and kids and students, and everybody else in between listening to this, would you give them courage to speak about you? What I pray that them speaking about their relationship with you and what their experience in the church would just become such a normal thing that it wouldn't be weird for them. And that because they talk about the things that they love, that they would talk about you and about their churches, Lord. And I pray that through the men and women and everybody listened to this, that you would bring a ton countless one-mores to know you, so they could be with them forever, worshipping you, the one who is the creator and ruler of all things. Amen. Amen, and live free. Live free. We miss you, Carlos.