Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore with Katey Rich

blank check with griffin and david blank check with griffin and david don't know what to say what to expect all you need to know is that the name of the show is blank check a podcast for everyone who has ever dreamed of a second chance the marketing on this movie was insane i mean i'm gonna i'm gonna put forward that it's insane that the poster for this movie is just the end of the movie burston and christopherson smiling i don't want to see it worked because people are like well i'd like to see that i'd like to i'd like chris christopherson to take me in his loving arms you like ellen burston like his beard we all want that would you argue that's not really what the movie is but what would you say the movie is just like her crying like you don't want that yeah that's not gonna go on a poster i think it's funny this is like the you know it's ellen burston's oscar winning performance i would say it's an element it's a strong element of the movie no one's walking out of there being like well there was no chris christopherson hugging in that film i feel cheated like it's in there but i think this movie is more than anything about a woman stuck in cycles and this movie poster presents it as if like one door closed and another one opened it is definitely open the door creaks open and she's like i think it's safe to walk through this yeah exactly i mean throwing out the idea that a movie about a woman is being sold with a man on the poster like who that's never been done before no and him being above the title is kind of nuts it's ellen burston and a big deal chris christopherson and i mean what this is two years no where where are stars born relative to this uh after two years after this is this is the early um him acting we can okay but he's already very famous but he's very famous very famous you know he's uh he's someone you want you know to to show off because it's like hey yeah exactly yeah we got this guy god oh he wrote that song he did dang yeah i'm not a best i'm not a chris christopherson guy i have to admit you're a big whistler guy though right it's the character he plays in blade blade's assistant oh okay right yeah oh you gotta go get those vampires asking me if i like whistling well or like the like mother of the painting oh this just got 100 jauntier i'll say i like whistling which is the verb i use for watching blade movies right i'm i'm gonna have a is he in trinity seeing the third one he is but he dies for the second time i want to say rip because he dies in the first one the second one he's back alive and they don't explain it the third one they kill him for good but then whistler's daughter shows up right whistler's daughter is uh jessica biel right whenever i have a daughter i hope she looks like jessica biel from seventh heaven right and then planet of the apes uh planet of the apes parenthetical 2001 sure estella warren is his daughter oh she's my daughter i'm a human i hope these apes don't kill me damn apes you can make the checkout to it's k-r-i-s we can't do our favorite bit on that movie because it's too early but the idea that the you can see the actor doing direct deposit on their phone on camera uh yep chris christopherson the handsome boy is here what are you looking guy the handsome boy is the nickname he's a man david yeah i think calling him a boy is immediately offensive there is a boy in this movie who is distinctly a boy so you gotta set chris christopherson the young handsome new boy is here rancher i think chris christopherson is as much of a man as anyone has ever been that is an adult he's an adult man uh and the boy is a man he's a man he's a man he's a boy in this movie has the foulest mouth he's ever heard that's a brutal thing coming from chris christopherson yeah you imagine foulest mouth i've ever heard right you imagine chris has probably met a couple uh saucy uh fellas spending all that time on the ranch you know you're not talking to enough people and not not used to it i just think it's funny that this movie was sold as a second chance rom-com and then spawned a non nine season workplace sitcom and you watch it and you're like it's just like a pretty tender small character study about a sad woman but the minute that you start with the mel's diner sequence you're like oh i would spend nine seasons here perfect sense it emerged fully formed as the setting for a show that you would watch if you showed someone the first five minutes of this movie so the crazy prologue right and maybe just a couple minutes of her with a husband she doesn't really like that much and you were like now hit pause now what if i told you this turned into a hit sitcom you'd be like what part of it turned into it but 100 plus episodes and a spin-off if you show someone the lack the last half of the movie they would be like oh sure i can see ben looks befuddled producer ben looks befuddled there was a wildly successful sitcom that ran for nearly a decade called alice's restaurant that was based on this movie that was a workplace diner sitcom it was just called it's called alice it's all you need really yeah i think it was called alice's restaurant is a play right no it's the woody guthrie's son yes sorry i knew it was just called alice it was the longest running uh sitcom starring a woman until roseanne and ran for nine seasons linda lavin the great and i would say it was i mean yeah it was very successful like it spent a good half of its time on the air being like a top 10 show and here's what's crazy diane ladd in this movie plays flow right a different actress plays flow on the sitcom everyone is different except for one person a vic tay back yeah yes the the the cook is the same actor right but everyone else is different because it was you know you're a movie actor you don't go down to tv the show is so successful they spin off flow into her own show and then to replace flow in the dynamic they hire diane ladd to play a new waitress that's how big the show was but at first she's like i'm not doing a sitcom of the movie i was in and then five years later she was like i would gladly join the cast i'd love to and in fact where can i sign on the top but it's just like what if it's just this fun diner minus any abusive relationships have you guys ever watched alice i thought about doing it for this and i didn't i never have i know kiss my grits uh-huh which is the catchphrase which doesn't say in the movie right she's talking about grits she's talking about grits they get close she's got plenty of like fun colorful language you know poly holiday on the show should i hug them should i gently caress them david was just telling us to kiss morning grits he was telling us to kiss morning grits evening grits also a solid i mean if you go to waffle house it's open 24 hours you can have grits any time of day what's your waffle house order because you live in a waffle house covered scattered and covered also the name of a hootie in the blowfish album well where i owned it on cd why did i wear my hootie the blowfish shirt that i recently found in my parents house you know what google.com hootie in the blowfish shirt alex ross perry is rubbing his hands together right now i don't even know what he's gonna do with this but he's gonna bully me i lived in britain where hootie in the blowfish much like sort of matchbox 20 matthews band some of these like american bands all nighted no it's just one of those things like completely failed to translate like you know they were you know they were brought over as like this is one of the hottest bands in america right now their album just went like double diamonded and britain was like i think we're okay it's just like how we don't get robbie williams like there's just something that just never made it over but i was gifted cracked rear view when i was 10 years old and i i i gave it a spin on the old disc man southern frat rock not translating does make sense to me the thing with hooting the blowfish and i've done this rant before is like oh yeah is that darius rucker's voice is incredible like that's it's the thing where you listen to it you're like he fucking rocks and now he's become a massive solo right and then he had his country career and you're kind of like god bless him because you know anytime you listen to hooting the blowfish you're like all of this is pretty ordinary sounding except who the hootie hootie be hootin i feel so bad so good i know his name's not hootie but that's that's the thing that it's it's the problem he could never come out from under being hootie if you guys ever so and of course the jerry mcguire gag yes no i am not hootie you know as people who've listened to the show before no i grew up in south carolina i don't live there now but so if you drive into south carolina from charlotte there's a like a visitor's area there and there is a video like a south carolina tourism video that darius rucker made there is the star of it it's like hey welcome to my state i love it here yeah if he wanted to run for governor of south carolina he would win he would win yeah he would just have to be hooting no but he is he is like a treasure so he is doing just fine you know i agree the man's a treasure let's let's give him treasure yeah he's treasure it is funny to imagine put him in the trunk he's treasure it's funny to imagine he could run probably win sure with the name darius rucker on the ballot just going i love america i can't do his voice the second he won everyone would be like well governor hootie governor hootie yeah it didn't matter he'd probably be fine with it he'd just have to accept it yeah yeah i'm not liking any of their merch putting the blowfish you're thinking about buying something i had a thought but the shirt i have is from the 1995 tour that i went to is my first ever concert and it's uh it has they don't look like you on the back if you go on ebay it's on there they have the um there's the friends episode that's about one of the very few friends episode that tried to touch on like sort of matters of like class and money okay like usually didn't really touch this stuff and it's like oh they all live in giant apartments and like don't worry about this is the one that mike lead guest directed exactly it's the only one that acknowledges that three of the friends are kind of like make good money and three don't and it's it's about that and okay and a hootie and the blowfish concert let's break this down do you remember who the three ross makes good money ross is ross monica makes good money chandler and monica yeah are the like quote-unquote richer and then like joey phoebe and rachel are the but it might be rachel is i can't remember where it is because eventually but she doesn't always comes from money yes but of course she gets she has to cut off all her credit cards right because she didn't marry the dentist but monica and ross come from money too they all grew up in the same like rich town right they're coded as like suburban sure like you know like they're fine or whatever um but but it's sort of just like it's saying like you know like ross i think it might be right i can't but it's like yeah ross these guys have white collar jobs they make money and like joey he's a struggling actor phoebe lord knows how she's bringing the rent together she does smelly cat like what what is phoebe's job right you know and and the crucial thing is that they the rich ones get to go to a hootie in the blowfish concert wow and it's like one of the things where it's like no grander experience than seeing hootie and his blowfish david i think i found the right piece of hootie merch for you i just texted it to you along to me i think you would rock the shit out of this and ben as someone into fashion i want your advice okay i just think oh boy i can't all right yeah it is a charcoal colored bucket hat on one side it says the group therapy tour okay and i don't know i assume there's this there's this kind of tie-dye logo it's a little american flag hootie in the blowfish i cannot see sims sims would rock i'm not a huge bucket hat guy yeah i'm not usually they're back you didn't hear they're back they're always you know threatening wait a second david you said you're not a huge bucket hat guy but did you know that this one has an adjustment to it i'm not a huge bucket hat guy i'm not a huge bucket hat guy i'm not adjustable drawstring attached and the sizes run small thank god just in case i need it to especially hug the old noggin yes i can't imagine a hat with a drawstring you could get it you gotta get it a going home candle is your oh you're on like the hootie website like this no okay that's not great for um an audio medium i'm just trying to uh see what now vintage era or is it like does it look like this like um you know the crack for your view nope it's not even that one okay all right we're hunting i know this one is a hundred bucks on ebay yeah it's a tour shirt from like 95 like you know it's like yeah yeah how many people go yeah right the one i found in my parents house was from 99 a very under uh appreciated tour and i was like should i just sell this thing and send my kids to college but it's not worth quite that much i'm thinking on to it remember all that concern that when uh the year 2000 hit hootie and the blowfish were gonna go to that back down to zero that they were gonna crash we thought we were gonna lose them yeah that's why i saw them on tour in 1999 obviously y2h man people tuned in they hit play on their little podcatcher going oh alice doesn't live here anymore with katie rich on blank check we love it definitely a 10 minute hootie run kicking this one off right people are disappointed only because they were certain it was gonna open with 10 minutes of becker oh no becker's done what were you gonna say i like to think i bring less chaos to this podcast than your average guest like i try to try to chaos but then i just started with the hootie thing so i'm sorry you invite a lot of tangents because you and i and and you and griffin we have plenty to talk about and we have kind of you know shared brain waves about kind of like reference points right the sort of entertainment weekly era of being a teen who loves movies and all i don't know i just feel like we got a lot of a lot of roads we can go down get ready let's go down some roads and you know hootie sang about those roads in his song i wish i could remember i was like if only i could make a lot of detailed hootie and the blowfish i was like if only i could make a lot of detailed hootie and the blowfish which i don't know that i can't uh i i texted you the shirt that i all right here we go so you can now see it it is the exact shirt i did buy this one off ebay now have two hootie shirts and this is the one that i got at the tour in 1995 god bless wait so you bought you bought a shirt on here oh yeah last summer like around my birthday i was like you know what i'm giving myself is a hootie and a blowfish shirt for my birthday this is why we're pals oh this shirt is it's a good one it's green and blue and hang on griffin i gotta text it to you too hit the old drop down menu on this and hit and buy it now yes all right i'm texting it to ben also so now everyone loves it when we text each other on the microphone time there you go there you go how you punish me i remember that one david you have the voice of an i've got the voice of a hootie oh my god i'm a terrible singer i'm not based on that well i'll leave it there then i'll i'll stand and on the high oh what was um running from an angel what was the only one to be with you that was the one that people wanted to be with you that was the one that people wanted to be with you that was the one that people were basically like this band needs to be legally like disbarred from music the miami dolphins were in that music video um because it was just like fucking you know mtv played it like four billion times a day mtv was like wait there's a a rootsy rock band with a black guy like this checks all her boxes fucking blanket the airwaves like we gotta get this guy everywhere maybe we cut that out i should have worn it sure i just bought it all right it's gonna be we link it in the show notes so everybody can go we're gonna write out all the emails and we'll be right back of these goody shirts great time it's very funny uh the uh alice doesn't live here anymore or the alice sitcom wikipedia has a section of differences between the film and television series and it's like a various rv kaitel not included that's the thing it's all stuff like alice's maiden name was graham television series alice's maiden name was spy vac and you're like film sad sitcom doesn't touch dark stuff like that's what they're not saying they're into like very granular details did you go through the guest stars of who was on this crazy this is one of those sitcoms it was a hot show but jay leno was on it celebrities would appear here's something girls would appear as themselves as like customers george burns goes like how much for a tuna meal because gray is set in arizona like it's still like it's not like they're like let's move to a diner in hollywood or whatever but people are just passing on through i guess it's a funny thing because like it was a hit show but you can tell by its kind of lack of emmy noms that it was never taken very seriously like lavin got a grand total of one nom and she's a legend she's a legend she was on yeah recently passed she's fucking of course she's seth cohen's grandma on the oc um and that was her only ever uh emmy nom which is rude rude to lavin she and chris christopherson both passed uh pretty close yeah but david i'm sorry i told you not to do that just for the record they asked it was kind of like a weird kind of like i know but i said why you that's what i said you just don't need to meddle in their business so chris christopherson died at the grand old age of 86 yeah and i feel like linda lavo also uh lived a very long time she linda lavin was 87 87 yeah at the time we're recording this ellen burston 93 still working so good i will say about lavin like i don't look at ellen burston and go like linda lavin's a tv version it's a totally different type of character there's also a crazy thing is that ellen burston later does a sitcom in the 80s the ellen burston show it was a good fucking riot i think it was just like a family sitcom but that's another person where i don't go like obviously let's get her on a multicam you know i think it was one of those things where it's like if you're someone like ellen burston where it's like you are a tremendous actress you're an oscar winner and you've been in huge movies like the exorcist but you're never going to be treated like that you're not going to be treated like that you're not going to be treated like a movie star by hollywood because it's a sexist industry and you're a little older and you're more of like a great actor than you are like a theater and love teaching and maybe just wanted the consistent and then like the call just comes along like hey do you want the consistent work and paycheck uh one of these network shows right she only did it it only 13 episodes yeah megan malali was her daughter elaine stritch was also on it i think elaine stritch played her sister or no played her mom played her mom seven year age difference yes her her 80s are a lot of movies i've never heard of just going through her credit it's interesting because like ellen burston is a hall of famer right she's a legend there's no question i think she's one of the best screen actors i mean she's mostly a legend because she told you to shut the fuck up that one time that's not what she said and you know that's not what she said she said try silent correct and you got to give credit it's actually way better than her telling him to shut the fuck that's why it needs to be correct nothing better nothing better i think she's one of the greatest actors of all time but she no doubt has as katie's saying when you look at her filmography like just a bunch of stuff where you're like what on earth is that like what's what happened to her what happens to women who are the stars of their movies what are you gonna do with them but then also two additional oscar nominations in the 80s like we're saying like well that's a weird decade for her so what were her dying young did she get no resurrection in 1980 yeah and then i guess uh same time next year is 78 for that yeah uh yes she did like she got a bunch of oscar noms and she won one and she's in uh twice in a lifetime the movie that amy madigan got her nomination for never heard of until the first run um but i remember when she got her uh you know nomination for a dream it was that classic oscar thing of like them being like and where have you been and she's like i've been here you're so good in the movie where you played a crazy drug addict and she's like okay well you know i've been in other stuff too i do think that led to a then kind of elder statesman she's she's now a legendary immediate instant gravitas uh great actor um we stan And, you know, today we discuss on a podcast that Griffin's about to introduce the film that won her an Oscar. Yes, which unfortunately, in my opinion, steals the Oscar for what might be the greatest screen performance of all time. Oh, well, then we can. Oh, is it a. Is it a Gina Rollins. Gina Rollins? Woman Under the Influence is this year. Yeah, I mean, obviously, that's a fucking great performance. That Ellen Burstyn wins and Martin Scorsese goes up to Cassavetes and Rollins at the Oscars, like, near crying. And he's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to make this fucking thing. Because this one also feels really Cassavetes-inspired. Sure. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's Marty. We'll talk about it. It's in the research, I'm sure. Yeah. Well, and, like, this is also among the great actress performances. Like, I think she's incredible in this movie. It's phenomenal. I just. She's amazing in this movie. I would have given her the Oscar for one of the two previous nominations. For, like, The Exorcist. But this is a fascinating ripple effect. For Last Picture Show. I think she's amazing in Last Picture Show. I obviously love the Cloris Leachman win, but if I had a ballot for 72, I would pick Burstyn. Well, let me now. Look, while I pull up some Oscar pages so we can re-litigate this for a second. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I am Griffin. I'm David. We're about to re-litigate some Oscars, but not as much as we will in next week's episode. This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. Sometimes they do a gig for hire to prove. That they can do. That they're versatile. A lack of limitations and it ends up being a bit of a guarantor because it wins. It wins a dang Oscar. A beloved actor. It makes some money. It makes some money. It makes a TV show. And launches a second. It becomes a multimedia franchise. Discourses make money from Alice? No, no, no. Okay, wow. No, good. Successful. You can tell who has good teams by who gets baked into deals like that because there are people who just cash checks forever. I mean, this is the MASH story that I love is that Robert Altman had no stake in MASH. He had no upside from the film's box office success because they didn't want to hire him. That he took a DGA minimum and waived any participation. It also meant he waived any participation in ancillary things that would go on later. His son, who was kind of a burnout and he wanted his kids to work on the movie, he was like, can you write a song for The Dentist? His son writes Suicide is Painless, gets paid every time any episode of MASH airs anywhere in the world. Oh, my God. And he like. That is good. Hated his son for that. Oh, okay, that's less good. I thought he'd be proud of him. I don't think so. Okay. I don't think so. All men get together. What's our. This is a miniseries on the films of Martin Scorsese. It is called Podcast Fellas. That's right. Wow. No problems there. This is my first time hearing this. I looked to you. I wanted to see your response. You accepted it. Such a short list of options you had, too. Like, just not a lot of titles to work with. The pod list doesn't cast here anymore? That's what we should have called it. The pod that knocking at my cast. The pod that had this castnessence? Yeah, that one's tough. I'm not saying it was my best one. The pod of InnoCast. The pod of Cast Street. There is a C in there. Yeah, yeah. Pods of Newcast. But no, it's called Podcast Fellas because that's what we are. We're a couple of podcast fellas. And today. And sometimes girls. We have a pod lady with us joining us. Delightful. As we love to say, kind of the first blank check guest ever. It's very important. Yes, very important. Helps codify the box office game. That's right. Yeah. And also, importantly, mother of still record holder youngest guest ever on the show. True. Almost. Baby Charlie. Yeah. Are the listeners ready for the age of that baby from the Titanic episode? Because it's important to talking about this movie too. Charlie's Decade of Dreams. Charlie's about to turn 10. He's about to turn 10. As when this episode is out, I assume he will have already turned 10 because it's very soon. When he was on pod, he was baby. He was three months old. Now he's a little man. It's so crazy that you brought a three-month-old baby to a podcast episode. It's completely crazy. It's really evidence that none of us knew anything about babies is the fact that I did that. Katie, to remind you because we were trying to remember this on the subject, your last episode with us was Intolerable. Yes. When I stepped back in the studio, I was like, oh, yes, now I remember I was talking about George Clooney. I remember Prince of Tides and I was like, no, but you've done something since then. I couldn't remember. Yes. Okay. This is also your 10th episode. No, really? No. Wait a second. Oh, that's so weird. My Decade of Dreams, Charlie's Decade of Dreams. Is that because are we counting Titanic as two or one? Counting them as one. Right. It's a kill bill question. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. This is your true 10th episode because Titanic doesn't really count. So congratulations. Now let's relitigate these Oscars. All right. So her first nomination, as you pointed out, was for The Last Picture Show. She lost to her co-star Cloris Leachman. Now, they're both great on the movie. They are. I just think Purston's my favorite performance in that film, period. But that was like, she was like brand new. I guess they were all brand new back then. Yeah. The, uh, the other, I would say, big nominee there is Anne Margaret in Carnal Knowledge, which is a great performance. And I'll just say it. Anne Margaret, kind of a looker. Uh, you've also got Barbara Harris in, uh, Who's Harry Kellerman and Why Is He Saying Those Terrible Things About Me? An Ulu Grossbard film I've never seen, but obviously has an iconic title. Incredible title. Yeah. And then Margaret Layton in The Go-Between, which is a masterpiece and she's very good, but like, you know, I would say with them, with there, it's kind of like, right, pick. And like with Cloris, it's just kind of, that's her Oscar, man. Like she doesn't, you know, she doesn't have too many more swings at the, at the movie award app, you know, whatever. Okay. So then she loses for The Exorcist to Glenda Jackson for A Touch of Class. Now, we respect Glenda Jackson. I've never seen that film. I've, I love her, you know, for Women Who Love is an amazing movie. She had won three years previously. She had, it's a surprising, I think four, but yeah, you know, like surprising second win for her in, I think the reason she won was it was a bit of a, it was a weird year. Like, it's Ellen Burstyn in The Exorcist who's amazing in The Exorcist. He's a mild stretch as a lead. Yeah, I would agree. She sort of counts, but like she's not really in the back half of the movie, obviously. And she's not the thing you come out of The Exorcist. She's not. But it's a powerhouse performance. Yeah. It's a little. And she broke her damn tailbone. It's a little like Michael B. Jordan in Sinners minus the skill piece of the twins thing, right? Where you're like, there's such a centering force in this film, which was also the highest it was a hit and she's great in it. Yeah. And then you got wait, wait, is the devil the lead? I would say it's Linda Blair and they put Linda Blair in supporting because she's a kid. But I mean, like she's the one like the movie's happening to her. Everyone else is a little bit in and out. I think Burstyn's the lead. I think it's fine. I accept it. Okay. But I think it might have hurt her for a win. Yeah, possibly. And then you got Marsha Mason, the great Marsha Mason in Cinderella Liberty, the James Caan movie, Mark Rydell movie. I've never seen it. We got Barbra Streisand in The Way We Were. We stan. Yeah. Yeah. Great performance. Yeah. Sure. I think that movie is a little silly. It's silly, but I think that's an excellent movie star performance. Yes, I agree. And then you've got Joanne Woodward in Summer Wishes, Winter Dreams. I've never seen that one. Not a movie I've seen. Yeah. No, this is a lot. That's why you're like maybe we could sneak it over to Alan. It is astounding to go through these and realize how rarely the best actress nominees were from Best Picture. Oh, yeah. It was a classic thing. The 1950s. Yeah. It's a little better now with the 10 noms. Yes. You know, or whatever. But I bet you even now if we didn't have the 10 noms, it would remain a bit of a ghetto. Oh, definitely. There are so many movies that do not exist outside of one lead actress nomination for a movie star. Is The Exorcist getting the horror snobbery with this too? Yeah, of course. Because The Exorcist is obviously a big breakthrough. And it did win two Oscars. Yeah. But it was, yeah, it was the noms were the reward a little bit of kind of like, well, you know, it won Best Picture. Best Vomit and Best Pee-Pee. Now, there's actually not a ton of pee-pee in The Exorcist. I didn't say most pee-pee. I said Best Pee-Pee. It's notable pee-pee. I thought the category was just Best Goo. I mean, it's. Oh, yeah. Well, no, see, it was like the Best Score musical comedy drama thing. Most years, it's Best Goo. This is one of those years where they split it into Best Vomit and Best Pee-Pee. There's just too much to choose from. And then Exorcist winning both made them think maybe let's make it one category again. It won Best Adapted Screenplay and Best Sound. And, you know, and you're like, how did it lose? It was a hit, Bob. It's like it lost to The Sting, which was just also a phenomenon. Oh, so right. They were two of the 10 highest grossing movies ever. Yeah, they were just both movies that had, like, played for a billion years. I mean, it's an insane five. It's The Sting, The Exorcist, and American Graffiti. So three just, like, critically acclaimed powerhouse blockbuster out-of-nowhere movies and out-of-nowhere in different ways. Three of the most profitable movies of all time. Like, people are gonna like this. It's like, people are gonna love it. Exorcist, obviously. And then the other two nominees are A Touch of Class, which they really went for the kind of, like, British comedy back then. They loved to sneak those in. Sure. And then Ingmar Bergman's Cries and Whispers. They loved Bergman. They gave him proper respect. Well, he was at his. Right, they loved him in the final phases of his career. They would roll out the carpet for him. And I assume he would not attend. I don't actually know, but I have a feeling he didn't really show up. He didn't show up to a lot of those ceremonies. Or he was a party animal. Yeah, maybe he was there being like, I love this show being hosted by Burt Reynolds, Diana Ross, John Huston, and David Niven. Is that the one where there's the streaker and Niven goes like, he's got a tiny dick? That's the dream team. Those four people. We always want to see them together. The big four. The big four. It's just like, whenever I see Diana Ross, I'm like, where's John Huston? Her counterpart. You look naked without David Niven by your side. That is so funny that it's like. Oh, no, this is the year before Chinatown, so we're not in John Huston and that mode. Correct. Chinatown is the year after. So you're like, director first and foremost, menacing character actor secondly. right but before his most notable film role but he has played the greatest ape mc yes third mc then like the biggest pop star and a feet british man and then who's the fourth again burr reynolds like you know he's just like hi just the dude i'm from hollywood leading man you've heard of me yeah chewing gum on stage presumably when you if you if you think about a world where ellen burston never wins an oscar then you're like okay well then maybe did she win for requiem does she win for requiem as a makeup but it's the swank year right no no it's the julia roberts year and that was just a tough train to stop nor should it no you know you don't take that away i agree would would you both agree with the idea that she probably came in second ellen burston i remember yeah i think a bit of a thing because ellen burston hadn't accepted her own award of wouldn't it be nice for her to give a speech that year she doesn't although i will say whenever anyone trots out that argument i'm like we're splitting hairs absolutely come on she won but she didn't say she didn't get to give a speech i'm like okay um i mean laura linney was the critic fave that year but i could see the argument for ellen burston was me i still feel like back then critic faves didn't get you as far at the oscars that was a real nomination is the way of course it was yeah enjoy your saturday at the spirit tent i can tell you that best actress musical or comedy that year was the not oscar-nominated renee zellweger for nurse betty oh yeah but that there were but there's the only overlap uh there was juliette binoche was nominated for chocolate this movie is so funny they had chocolate fever back then the chocolate makes them honey i did watch chocolate for the first time like in the last five years and it does kind of fucking it's still terrible one of those things where if you remove any like what did you do to get rid of it remove any like what did it get what did it steal nominations from and you just watch it as its own thing it is delightful uh i mean it's i think i made this joke possibly but alfred molina plays snidely whiplash even more than the time he literally played snidely made that joke but it's it's very true he shows up with a mustache and he's like where's all this chocolate because he's lithgow in flash dance right i mean uh footloose like lithgow's like the town has to ban dancing millie is just like no chocolate i ban it from these walls so thin and so long it's making women talk back to their husbands such a sniveling little fuck with a cape it's amazing oh my god he has a cape yeah alice doesn't live here anymore yes is that the movie you're here to talk about are you trying to tell me something about where where alice is alice doesn't live here anymore is that 1974 uh for american romantic comedy drama film according to wikipedia i guess that's what i'd call i would call it a drama i call drama a character sort of right a light or you know quiet drama directed by martin scorsese uh written by robert getchell who has quite a career i want to do a little side goes on to write uh bound for glory and you know well that makes sense you're like yeah right so very very grounded although he's one of four i will say credited screenwriters on mommy dearest so i guess that's that's not all on him uh then he made the patsy klein biopic sweet dreams with uh jessica lang he wrote that he wrote a bet midler movie called stella i don't really know that's a stella dallas remake oh fuck it is wow this is like genuinely a fascinating career he got points on the alice sitcom for creating the character you got you got it yeah if you're the writer you're gonna get points but then he says he did okay but come on he writes point of no return the lafayette right yeah and then he does this boy's life and the client yeah yeah he was a you know he was a work work guy of course we call him a work he's a work guy yes uh the film uh yeah it was uh you know a 1974 christmas release that got good reviews made money won an oscar was a solid notch in scorsese's career i feel is often obviously under discussed it's very recently getting a criterion disc i i believe marie has gotten a criterion disc i i believe marie has gotten her hands on it today and is delivering it to the office tomorrow one day late for me to have watched this flashy criterion disc not marie's fault we're in fact getting it early yeah um but but was hoping it would time out better but yes it has only been on dvd for the last uh 15 i rented it on the old itunes it looked all right the tunes for the eyes it looks all right yes and it's a film we should discuss and with us is have we have we introduced katie rich who i think i think of you as a fairly like you discovered this movie back when you did the scorsese screen dress yeah i didn't want to come on here and promote someone else's podcast but no i did screen dress it with the scorsese group ranking so i was in charge of the middle 10 yeah it seemed like quite a stressful approach podcast nothing ever happened not a lot of work uh this one was especially uh chaotic uh emily st james a friend of us and of the show was on the the 30 to 21 group right didn't she fuck everything up by drafting something last or whatever group effort of fucking everything up but just like chaos rained on that like they didn't want to deal with the dylan docs so they left us with like no direction home bob dylan in the middle 10 when we were like i don't kind of get or like they left us out of here they left us with who's that knocking at my door which i don't know if you guys have done that episode already it's already aired right now it's a perfectly fine movie it belongs in the bottom 10 i would put it well but that's what i don't understand about this approach of like they get to choose making a group project well it's it leans into the chaos wait but now i'm looking i mean how this ranking worked out well there's just a oh there's like vetoes oh the patreon members got to veto yeah i don't think that affected what we did they someone was you had the irishman 29th they did bring this up with your friend emily c james what was dead last and what was number one dead last was shine a light which like sure but it looks like someone tried to put worst one fine i mean but again it sort of doesn't count like i mean what are our parameters here it's making it even 30 i think they bring shine a light and a rolling thunder review which i don't think was a theatrical thing that was a netflix thing which is actually kind of fun as a lover of rules it's stressing me out smiling and throwing his thumbs up but no it looks like someone tried to put the departed last yes that was their real chaos it was trolling i think we wound up putting the departed in our middle 10 which i would put it in my top 10 honestly you're wondering why someone tried to put the departed last you must have missed that frank costello was a guest on that episode i smell a rat on this podcast i think they did uh age of innocence is number one i wasn't on that one either we were in they do have it number one and they have goodfellas two taxi driver three i mean like age of innocence number one it's a little too chaotic guys this is a little much i'm i i tried to make it less chaotic but it looks like their veto system really messes with stuff because then it's like stuff will get bumped up there's a lot of rules a lot of like i we wound up putting wolf of wall street in our middle 10 because our pal joe reed uh is not a fan of it and i didn't have the ability to veto it i would put wolf of wall street in my top 10 but the thing i'm really proud of from our group is that we left alice for the top 10 like we said collectively said we're not drafting alice you guys can have it in there because i think it's i think it's in my top 10 that's totally fine and it's a great movie but cape fear is number 10 i just don't know you're just not belonging no what's going on no and it feels like because you guys left dishes it's weird that there's like movies that vault up the list because the prior guys just didn't want to talk about it's an exquisite corpse thing where you're like oh i guess who's that knocking at my door is number 19 you did the pixar one i feel like you had like an aneurysm i did i said this respectfully to the fine folks at the screen drafts they have asked you to come on and i've been like i've heard your episodes a four hour long i won't be doing it right i did it once with jd and we did jim henson movies and we had a wonderful time your friends jd and i were in sync and we were like the fucking bash yeah you gotta do it with your friends right and it was it was contained right and then they were like do you want to do a pixar mega draft it's every pixar movie which at that point maybe was 21 or 22 and i believe it took six hours everyone else was on the west coast i finished the episode and the garbage trucks were coming to collect the sun was rising this was deep lockdown and i say this i say this kindly i don't blame anyone involved in this episode i don't blame anyone involved in this episode i don't blame anyone involved in this episode this is just what it was it was the worst day i had in the pandemic i remember and that's the most damning thing i could think about any 24 hour period yeah yeah that's a that's tough what i couldn't handle it i'm so it's exhausting every time i have done that and then at the end of it i say wow but i watched every martin scorsese movie and it's a nice part right i mean you guys are doing the same thing that part of it paid off so much for me because i still think about it have a podcast that gives us an excuse to do the same thing on a more manageable schedule although you do make some long episodes we do but i don't know if anyone's heard about that but i get stressed out even when like the our friends at the big pick are doing drafts and they're like i have to watch 80 things yeah to prep for one episode yeah you know we did the big pick oscar changing things like we were just doing and i'm figuring out how to prep for that and like you can't watch everything but knowing what you need to pay attention to it is when you have that wide of field it gets really crazy but that's the thing you're just sort of like well what i don't need to watch summer wishes winter dreams or whatever i'm sure that's some bullshit and then chris ryan shows up being like guess what i have a hot show in which we're taking yes what's that noise oh it's the dossier cracking open you are on it today good job ben's doing great he's guarding against my mental health uh sometime during the protracted and difficult production of william freaking's 1973 classic the exorcist pp thomas which as you may or may not know as with many a Friedkin film was a bit of a trying shoot some personalities at play here there are some wild stories about that film such as like Friedkin would just fire a gun without telling anyone to make everyone freak out like on camera and then say like action and then like tie a harness around Ellen Burstyn just fucking break her tailbone and like the entire set was a refrigerator and Max von Sydow had makeup on but by the time the movie was over he just looked like that so that film is really really hard but they make it and the studio which is a little studio called Warner Brothers David's wearing his Warner Brothers shirt realizes it might have something special on its hands and is pretty impressed with one Ellen Burstyn yes basically John Calley is in charge of Warner Brothers they're looking at dailies of the film and they basically just like call Ellen Burstyn and are like we want to do a movie with you what do you want to do? exactly like we have a pile of scripts take a look like we'd like to be in the Ellen Burstyn business Ellen Burstyn who I think is like a woman of taste yes or like you know a really a great actor but also clearly a very intelligent one and a very thoughtful person who you know tries to give a shit right I don't know and she's she's one of the earliest members of the actor studio studies under Lee Strasberg is like real protector of the flame of the sort of I don't know the beauty of acting she studied under Lee Strasberg when he only had a half inch of chestnut hair and it was and it wasn't even white yet he would sit there all day before he had the full four inches try to push it out like in Godfather he actually doesn't die when they shoot him because the the chest hair just catches the bullet um she's she is a rare American to have the triple crown of acting as it's called where she has an Emmy a Tony and an Oscar what's her Tony for? her Tony is for uh same time next year and she has two Emmys one for an episode I believe of Law and Order SVU the other one of course for Political Animals oh wow which you were on which I was on and she told you to try silence no oh you're forgetting I was three times in a project with her it was like you're like I've worked with you before and she's like never heard of you correct Try Silence was on draft day which was the third and final time I worked with Ellen Burstyn she started building into her contract after that except I never worked with her the conversation was in the makeup it was in the makeup I know I know yeah yeah yeah I know you were uh and just in case someone hasn't heard the story I was talking to Tim "Hitmaker" Simons in the makeup trailer for draft day who's a bit of a chatterbox let's be honest we like to talk us silly boys we were probably not even talking about blu-rays who knows what we would have been talking about back then Mr. Show Sketches or some shit and she showed up in the makeup trailer and I thanked her because at the wrap party for not Political Animals but Possible Side Effects a pilot directed by Tim Robbins that wasn't picked up where she basically played the matriarch of the Sackler family right she was it was like succession with medicine and she was Brian Cox I went up to her at the wrap party and told her how much I was a fan of her work and how much she meant to me and that I was trying to start and she recommended to me an acting teacher who was very very important to my life right you said I used this person so I say that to her and she said I don't remember being on that show if you say so and I was like she wasn't like what a moving thing to hear I mean she didn't say this in a mean way right but she is an intense woman she was just kind of like okay I'm gonna do this and then I went back to talking and she goes well I'm glad that helped you and then I went back to talking to Tim and after like 10 minutes she went Griffin and I went yes and she went try silence you didn't even say why don't you try silence no it was try silence it wasn't an invitation it's the most withering thing anyone has ever said Tim has described it as witnessing a murder like five minutes later she apologized well and why not say it to Tim he was talking too realized it was so devastating that she was like look I look I was you were being a little loud I'm sorry you might be surprised to hear and Ellen Burstyn is someone who can command a lot of force without raising her voice I imagine she does it rarely you know the entire makeup trailer went silent and Draft Day was a fairly low budget studio movie they were shooting on set they stopped talking they didn't even know why Dennis Leary shut up it was like six to ten chairs in the makeup trailer like everyone was in there so there's a full line of people all with their own like hair and makeup people and it's like 20 people are just stunned silent and after five minutes she goes like I'm sorry it's just that I use this time to try to run my lines she said something like that you're on fucking Draft Day Ellen come on what are your lines don't draft that guy Sonny I'm your mother I don't remember what she does in that movie she plays Kevin Costner's mother of course great it's just so funny to imagine your father would be proud of your drafting or not yes her to imagine like her and Dennis Leary like sharing scenes which I'm sure they do not I don't remember the three things I was in that she was in she played the same role basically in all three the elusive matriarch slightly domineering she was very good at it Josh Lucas's mom Sigourney Weaver's mom and then Kevin Costner's mom feels like a wide age range of people's moms yeah but you know actors who can cover a lot of ground themselves age-wise and at that point Ellen Burstyn just read as old lady like it was just sort of like this is your classic old lady on screen who isn't trying to look young you know she hasn't had like bizarre shit done she's in her 90s now I mean and she's thriving she famously my favorite awards thing with her is that she was nominated for an episode of Big Love that I think she maybe doesn't have a line in but she was just submitted kind of by mistake because they like submitted a whole host of actors from Big Love for guest actress or whatever and I think voters were just kind of like Ellen Burstyn in Big Love I assumed she was good let's give her the nom and they had to like apologize for giving her a nomination that also happened with that TV movie that Bob Balaban directed that was what was it it's Susan Sarandon and Ray Fiennes I want to say it's like a butler who killed the woman he works for wait is this Mrs. Harris which I'm just looking up I think so it was Big Love oh you're saying oh no no Mrs. Harris was a big thing this one is Annette Bening and Ben Kingsley which is not off of what you were just talking about that's what I'm thinking of yeah there's like that that movie has like a faux mockumentary style where it will cut to talking heads occasionally and Ellen Burstyn did a cameo as a favor where they cut to her and she goes like I never liked her liked her anyway oh maybe that is what I'm thinking oh yeah maybe that's she has one line and it was like an automatic nomination and she was just like this is offensive you should un-nominate me and nominate someone else and I believe Entertainment Weekly did a rundown and they were like look she makes like 15 choices in her three seconds they were like this is a ridiculous nomination and clearly people didn't watch it but also this is sort of proof of how good she is I mean David and I were talking about the Emmys before coming here the Emmys are completely ridiculous in what they nominate they see the name like Don Cheadle got that nomination for the like for fucking secret invasion 40 seconds he was in a Marvel show the Captain America museum or whatever and being like pretty good exhibit being like you got damned I think people see that name they're scrolling through like I don't know what this is I don't know what this is and they're like great Don Cheadle I've heard of you especially if someone's a movie star and they're in a project that people know is legitimate but didn't watch they're like that was like a real thing right that was an HBO movie how shitty could it be even with like movie stars on TV all the time now it still has that weird like oh Ellen Burstyn it must be I mean if she's in it it makes it seem legit correct she was nominated for House of Cards I didn't know she was on House of Cards did she play Frank Underwood's mom probably probably seems like a good guess she plays Elizabeth Hale Bigelow she played the leader of the cult did she not yeah she's like a matriarch or something sounds like something Ellen Burstyn would do I'm gonna move on to the script she was sent she was sent a big pile of scripts and she's like she's like it was an education every woman in these scripts is either the victim the understanding wife of some hero out saving the world or a sex object of some sort there's no script where the woman was the protagonist stories were about men and women played a role in that man's story so let's also call out Ellen Burstyn had no thank you three bad marriages that all ended before the time she makes this movie she knows from dysfunctional marriage she tried divorce she tried divorce several times Neil Burstyn her third husband is a who she gets her name from yes was schizophrenic and I think fairly unbalanced her actual name is Edna Gillooly yes which you can see why she didn't use that as a stage name because it doesn't quite trip off the top so it's early in the women's lib moving as she says it's the 70s we're starting to look up and wake you know wake up and look around and she wanted to make a different kind of film and so she finally reads Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore a script by Bob Getchell she sends it to John Kelly he likes it but it had been optioned by David Suskind and so he had no deal at his studio but he had it on the last possible day he picks up his option to block them rude of him because he doesn't have a studio and so her agent calls him or maybe Tony calls you know someone her agent calls him and it's like Ellen wants to do this movie and he's like I'm doing it with Anne Bancroft and he's like we have a fucking green light from Warner Brothers like if we can do this like you you have like an idea of like a movie of doing something someday or you know we have a studio like who will make this movie and and Suskind said hmm I think we should make this movie with Ellen Burstyn and Warner Brothers so you know now this is crazy John Kelly then says to Ellen Burstyn do you want to direct it? crazy that is wild that is pretty wild that is kind of I don't know without parallel in this time period pretty much I mean like I mean all the stories Paul Newman's wife is directing like you know there's her name is Joanne Woodward yes completely No, but it's like when you think about like female directors in the studio system, I mean, how hard Streisand had to fight. Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, Lena Vertmuller is getting that first woman Best Director nomination around the same time. Yeah, I'm just wondering if that causes that somehow. Maybe. I mean, I think it might be just truly John Kelly being like, this is a cheap movie. I want to be in the Ellen Burstyn business. And, you know, you pick the script. It's talent management. We're also still in new Hollywood risk-taking era. And here's someone who kind of represents the new guard of acting styles. Here's someone who's kind of like a female De Niro in terms of like, she's locked in some whole different process. Maybe she'd get interesting performances out of other people. Uh, so instead she calls up a handsome Italian director by the name of Francis Coppola. And says, you know anybody? And he says, why don't you watch a little movie called Mean Streets? It hasn't even come out yet, but I recommend it. And she watches Mean Streets. And Coppola had just seen it and been like, I like this De Niro guy. I think I'll put him in my movie, The Godfather Part 1-1. Her quote was, she said, you go look at a movie like Mean Streets. Or no, that's what Francis said to her. She said, uh, it felt exactly what Alice needed because it was a wonderful script and well-written, but for my taste, it was a little slick. Script's a little slick. You know, in a good way. She wanted some grit. In kind of a Doris Day Rock Hudson kind of way. And I wanted something a little bit more gritty. It's smart to just go like, okay, I like the script and the foundation of this. But if someone deals with it on a superficial level, I think it's not, it's not going to work. So how do I get someone who's sort of like, hire a director against type for the film to bring it down? I have a hard time imagining that script. I feel like, I wonder if like, did he change the script itself? Or is it really just all in style that changes how this feels? I don't know. Maybe it's three episodes of the sitcom that he retroactively submitted. Or it's the Chris Christopherson rom-com that the poster makes you think it is. But it does make you consider how cool it would be if like either Safdie brother did this today. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know? I wonder if there's an analog. Because there are some directors who've done stuff like this. But yeah, like, I don't have to think. But I love this. She meets with this, as she puts it, small, nervous little guy. Yeah. That's a good way to describe him. And, you know, he's like, he's excitable and they're talking about it. And she says, you know, it's hard to tell from that film, Mean Streets, what you know about women. Do you know anything about women? Which is a fair note. Have you met one? And he says, no, but I'd like to learn. Which is pretty cute. Pretty good answer. Burson said his intelligence beamed through his face. So we went to work together. Had he started any of his failed marriages by this point? Where are we? Where are we in this bad husband history? He's one divorce down. Yeah. I mean, look, it's the classic, like, 60s, you know, he's, yeah, he's not married to Julia Cameron yet. He's divorced from Lorraine Brennan. Like, the 60s early marriage where it's like, well, we had to live together and our parents would be mad. Like, you know. I wanted to have sex, which of course, man, we had three children and bought a house. So he has years of being a bad husband still ahead of him at this point. Much more to learn. He has quite a revolutionized the field of bad husband. Oh, I assume you guys have talked about Mr. Scorsese, the documentary over the course of doing this. We've brought up stuff about him. But just the amount of his ex-wives and daughters in that movie who are like, yeah, he was terrible. We love him, though. Yeah, we're just like, he did rock. I never saw him. He never was really around much. It's just really remarkable how affectionate they are for all the horrible things. Not like horrible, but he was just not useful. No, no, he wasn't. He was mostly absentee. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Right, it's not like, yeah. I would not want to have been married to him at this point. But I think on a general, the vibe I got, right, because in talking about a movie about bad marriages and such, we don't want to like imply a different kind of bad marriage. Sure. You watch that and it just feels like everyone who married him kind of felt bad for him. Not that they were marrying him out of pity, but they were just like, I was just really worried about him. Like everyone talks about him like a little danger, like fawn that they tried to nurse back to health. And they were like, ultimately it ran back into the woods. He and Robbie Robertson just, stayed up all night for three days. And I said, you go, buddy. Go live your life. We call that the woods. So they, they get to work. He's dating Sandy Weintraub at the time. Okay. And she sort of was the one who kind of read the script from across his desk or whatever and said like, this is good. Like, you know, this has interesting characters because I assume he was basically just getting all the like gangster movies like being sent to him. Right. So it's like, he's smart. He's like, I should make something completely. Different. Right. Like what better way than, you know, then, you know, to, to avoid being typecast. Alice was a way of trying to find another way. Can I make genre in Hollywood? It was something like a vehicle, like a Betty Davis vehicle or John Crawford vehicle. I enjoyed those movies like Mr. Skeffington. So this would be a way of embracing the genre. It is so funny that even young 20 something Martin Scorsese making movies about guys who shoot each other is like, but I am a huge movie nerd who has seen every single, every great director has made a women's picture. Right. I have great respect for, for Mr. Skeffington. Well, you do have to assume the script did not include the prologue in this. That looks like the wizard of Oz set on a farm. It is so wild. It's gorgeous. I mean, you start out with like a fucking like Douglas Dirk opening credit sequence. Yeah. Like the silk rumpled in the background with the titles over it. I love it. You feel like you're watching the wrong movie. And obviously, as you just pointed out, very inspired by Mr. John Cassavetes, which you see a little bit. And look, do an actor driven movie. He has a great relationship with his mom. That's like, it's different from, from this movie, but he has like a chatty fire. Obviously. Right. Informal kind of relationship with his mom. And so he's investing a little bit of that in there. You know, his dad is clearly sterner and more reserved, but his mom is a cut up. Like she's funny. Getchell's screenplay. Apparently he wanted to change the third part dealing with the farmer. Okay. He means Chris Christopherson. Get rid of Chris. You can't. I don't know. It's like the beginning is not quite right. And the last sequence is not quite right. They rewrote it. They rewrote it together. They weren't satisfied. Then they start doing some improv in New York with Ellen. That's kind of cool. And then they would sort of throw it back to Getchell. I don't know. They're just describing rewriting the movie. Who cares? They did a good job. There is an alleged like three and a half hour cut of this movie that I'm sure is more of an assembly than a proper cut. But this is one of those movies where I would watch kind of any footage they have. I'd watch them all hanging and I would watch an entire movie set at a diner, but I would say this is a well-paced movie. It does not need to be long. It is. But I'd be curious. I mean, and that's the difference. There's a difference between him and Cassavetes, where there's like the famous story of him screening husbands and a killing and being like, the audience is enjoying it too much. We're adding an hour into it. Like Cassavetes was like, if the audience is enjoying it too purely, I've done something wrong. And it doesn't feel like this movie is taking easy outs, but you can tell that Scorsese's like, I'm not trying to punish people. As mentioned earlier, David Susskind once viewed this as an Anne Bancroft vehicle. Supposedly at one point, Diana Ross was attached. Well, well, well, which is crazy. I mean, obviously, and she was like, well, I'll only do it if David Nibbitt is there. My pal. And obviously, Walter Houston plays my son. John Houston. I think Walter Houston might have died by then. Walter Houston could play the chef. He's like, he's out. Order up. Shirley MacLaine in 2005 said she turned it down because she didn't know who Scorsese was. JJ adds in parentheses. That doesn't make perfect sense. This has to be a false memory. Like there's no way that's true. But she said in other places that, that the script was offered to her. I don't think she would have been offered the Scorsese version, but the script obviously had been around for a while. Well, if it was kicking around a studio, like presumably every actress in that industry. She's one of the people you would have offered anything to. Ellen Burstyn says the biggest regret she has is she didn't take a producer credit, which she should have because she was like, I was the shepherd of the film. I should have been an executive producer. I didn't ask. I demurred. Oh, I don't need credit. I'm the star. If I had been an executive producer, I would have gotten points on that fucking sticker. I would have made that point. I would have gotten points on that fucking sticker. I would have made that Alice money. Like, because I do feel like usually it'd be like, oh, well, it's a credit. Who cares? And Alice is the one scenario where like, you're telling me this small domestic drama turned into a regular paycheck. Yes. I mean, she made, she did make one of the coolest deals of all time, eventually for Exorcist, the last Exorcist. Do you remember this? It's like they created an acting school or something. They created a scholarship that runs indefinitely. Right. They kept offering her money. They were like, we'll give you a million dollars. Okay. You're going to be in the movie for five days. I don't give a shit. And they're like, 10 million. 10 million dollars, 25% of the gross. And she was just like, here are the actual terms. Scholarship for acting school every year, granted full ride in perpetuity and made them like, make a commitment to doing that. Yeah. Which rules. Of course, the only downside is she's in the movie for like two minutes being like, I too was once an Exorcist. Ah, I think it's her eyes gouged out. And you're like, what? The kids get that acting scholarship. Don't need to know that. Well, they make them watch the movie. Unfortunately. Funny that they were like, we have to have you in the movie. Why? So we can get your eyes out two minutes in. That's definitely a reshoot thing though, right? It sounded like that. No, that movie felt clean to me, Griff. That movie felt nobody touched it. The famously bleak thing about that movie is they make the big rights deal like in summer 2020. And they were like, we don't have a script yet, but can we really wait and take the chance of Ellen Burstyn dying? Here we are six years later. Exactly. So they wrote a couple scenes just to be able to shoot with her in 2020, then didn't finish the script until a year later. Then when they shot the rest of the movie, they were like, huh, the stuff we shot with Burstyn doesn't really fit. So then they reshot and they were like, what if you don't have eyes? What if I gouged out to just kind of have something shocking happen halfway in the movie? She did not attend the Oscars as we mentioned. She was busy starring in same time next year on Broadway with Charles Gurdon. Oh, which is what she went to Tony for. And then we'll get an Oscar nomination. She thought she got more. God, Sounds like a guy. I'm not going to look up who that is, thought she should fly back to Los Angeles to take, you know, to, you know, go to the Oscars. And she was just like, I didn't want to disappoint people. I didn't, you know, I don't want, no offense to understudies, but like people are paying to see me in Charles. It happened a lot in the 70s. People just didn't go to the Oscars in the 70s. They just didn't fucking go. And they went like, I didn't realize it was a big deal. And now like when Sean Penn doesn't go, it feels like size. Sean Penn is the first acting winner to not go since Paul Newman won in the 80s. So we're not actually crazy. We're not counting Anthony Hopkins. Yeah, yeah. Well, we're forgiving him because he was, he was asleep in Wales. Let's living Oscar winner, non-Anthony Hopkins in the 80s. Isn't that nuts? Yeah, that is funny. Yeah. Remember the Oscars were like, and now best actor. Oh, Anthony Hopkins and the father. Well, good night. You have to do your Joaquin Phoenix impression while doing that. Oh, I forgot it was Joaquin Phoenix. Joaquin. Yeah. Joker himself. Just like the ultimate prank. Just like the awkwardness of the moment him being like, I don't really want to be here anyway. Even Joaquin, the weirdest guy in the world is like, this feels awkward. Even I'm getting a sense that this is awkward. Chris Christopherson. It's just his fifth film. What has he done? Had just done Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. Which he's phenomenal in. Which is such a great film. It's such a cool movie. Have you ever seen that one, Ben? I haven't. I think. I know. It has a bit of a vibe you might gel with. But the Dylan connection. Dylan's really good. Dylan rocks in it. It's been on my list forever. The music is so cool, obviously. We'll watch it together, Ben. I haven't seen it either. I love a Western. You know, he's also in Dennis Hopper's Insanely Normal, the last movie. That's his first appearance. Right. Which was, that title's a threat. Dennis Hopper was like, I'm trying to end movies forever. That movie rules. He might have come close. That movie is very cool. That's a good movie. That's another one you would like. I assume you, have you been enjoying the recent Catherine Lanassa from the Pitt press cycle of I am haunted by Dennis Hopper's ghost? I interviewed her last year and she does just like, she will drop a Dennis Hopper. Just like, it doesn't have to get into it, but just like, you know, everyone just needs to know. That lady. She married him when she was like 19. I fucking love her. The craziest fucking thing is she was saying like, you know, he was the great love of my life and so he continues to haunt me. Obviously, we got divorced and then he married someone else after me, but when he was dying, they were in the process of getting divorced. So I was the last person he was married to where it ended on good terms. And I'm like, hence this ghost comes to my house. You also got divorced? What are you talking about? Yeah, but we patched it up. And now I'm on the Pitt. In the afterlife. And now she's married to, what's his name from Melrose Place? Who's she married to? Oh my God. Hang on. Okay. I love her. You can Google this faster than I can. Grant's show? Oh, I love Grant's show. They're married. Remember when he was on the threesome show? He's a honk. Swingers. Swing Town. It was called Swing Town. Swing Town, I remember. It was one of those CBS was like, can we do a show about swingers on CBS? And it's like, well, you have to have nudity and sex in your show. And they're like, no. Well, can you have drugs in your show? And I'm like, not really. It was like, well, then why are you making that? It's going to be so risque. In episode six, someone mentions that they saw a butt. That's what the 2000s were like. They were so jealous of HBO. And they'd be like, we want one of those. Yeah. Dennis Leary's the job where they were like, he's going to say, shit one time every other episode. We'll give TV Guide advance warning that this is one of the episodes he says shit on. Yes. Quietly as he exits a room. Ah, shit. Exactly. He was also in a film called, starred in a film called Cisco Pike, which I've never seen, but. Oh, sure. Gene Hackman, Karen Black, Chris Christopherson, Harry Dance, Dean Stanton, and the Warhol superstar Viva. I mean, like, how bad could that be? That sounds fun. Maybe a little formless. Who knows? I was going to say that movie was called Quiet Calm Conversations on the Set. Everyone's easy to deal with. Respectful disagreements. The motion picture. And then he's in something called Bloom in Love, a Paul Mazursky movie I've never seen, starring George Segal, where I assume he's got, like, I feel like he was often kind of the energy beardo guy. Yeah. Right. You know, he's coming in off the bench. I was double checking that. He's giving you some sort of, you know, hot, cool energy. Viva is Gabby Hoffman's mother. Oh, there you go. Yes. I was trying to remember who it was, but yes, sorry. Go on. So, Scorsese is, like, meeting him and basically being like, I love Pat Garrett. And Christopherson's like, everyone fucking hated that movie. What's the matter with you? And, you know, they had a great relationship after some early, you know, nervousness or whatever. Christopherson, this is an interesting way Burson puts it, is, like, he just couldn't accept that he was an actor. After every take, he'd cringe and be like, oh, man, that was dog shit. Like, he just had no, like, you know, confidence in his own ability. And I bet you that Burson and Scorsese are both kind of like, I don't know, man. Pretty hot. I'm so annoyed by that being like, dude, get on my level. No, she loves it. She says he was wonderful. Like, you know, we would be really connected. He was a new voice in America. Like, I mean, you know, they, how do you not have a crush on this guy, you know? Marty? No, but Chris. Yes, yes. Marty, I feel like you're a little more like, oh, Marty, you're so great. No, Chris Christopherson is just one of the most, I feel like, inarguably hot people. He's just the camera loves him crazy. Unbelievable. Yeah. Alfred Lutter, who plays little Tommy. They did, they saw 300 kids. So goodness. And Sandy Weintraub, you know, says, hey, Marty, you got to see this guy. He sees this kid. They say, what do you want to be when you grow up? And he says, a stand-up comic. Marty Russell loves him. And exactly. They're, and he's like, let's get him in the room with Ellen. And they're like, hey, just, you know, improv or whatever. And they start just kind of like bouncing off each other. And there you go. He's really great. Do we have any idea how much of their scenes together are improv? I think a lot. I think a lot of their kind of rat-a-tat is like, you know, they're back and forth. It's so perfect. Yes. And you kind of can't script that stuff. And just the way she's kind of like, what? You are as a parent where you're like, I'm picking up, I think I'm picking up what you're putting up, but what are you talking about? This is like the huge thing for me in this. And both the times I've watched it, again, having an almost 10-year-old, it's like when you like love this kid and you had to put up with him, but like if he tells you that story one more fucking time, you're going to jump out the window. It's that joke that he's trying to tell her where she's like crying, asking him to stop telling that joke. He reminds me a lot of myself in that way when you tell me about these things. Yes. Just like, I mean, is there like the dynamic of your kid who you love and is the thing you'll do anything for, but you're like, you're so annoying, I cannot listen to you for another moment. I think she is meaner to her kid. David, you can tell me what you think, then I would be to my children. She's a bit of a breaking point in this film. I would not kick them out of the car and make them walk the final mile to get home, I would think. Yeah, no. But there are some relatable moments in this movie. I would say there's some 70s like, oh, you'd get a phone call about this these days. I mean, it's a movie that builds to spanking. It is a movie about how do you. We'll talk about the hitting kids part of it, too. Or like Jodie Foster, Juvenile Delinquency. Jodie Foster. Holy shit, she's amazing. It's unbelievable. Well, I assume we'll get to her in the dossier. I am about to tell you that Jodie Foster shot all her stuff two days. Wow. Oh, my God. Real pro. What a pro. It was like doing another commercial first. She came in, bang, bang, bang, two days, she knew all her stuff. Two days, two bottles of wine, that was all. And this is Scorsese. And there's this damn situation with the welfare workers where, a woman came over to me and said, stop. And I was like, what do you mean stop? And they were like, stop. She has to go to school. And I was like, okay. She's Jodie Foster. She's in the grand tradition. Judy Garland. Judy Garland worked 20 hours a day. You know, they've got a lot of like actor studios, people kind of peppered in the background here. A lot of Ellen Burstyn faves, you know, are filling in the cast. What were you going to say, Katie? Oh, just where Jodie Foster was and I got on her Wikipedia page. She's like doing Disney stuff, but this is still before anything where she's a star. Obviously, this is how Marnie knows her for Taxi Driver, which is the next movie he makes. Which changes her whole career. But she's really only done a couple movies, right? She's, and, but, but she's like a TV star, right? Like she's, she's, She did the Paper Moon TV show. We love it. Didn't know that existed. She played Addie Prey on that. Am I wrong in thinking that she even replaced Tatum O'Neill in some later version of Bad News Bears? Or am I conflating the two things? I know she was the voice of one of Charlie Chan's children on the Hanna-Barbera Charlie Chan cartoon, which I'm looking up here, has aged perfectly I was about to say, sounds like something you'd want to be pushing out right now. It sounds like something that you would know and no one else would know. Yeah, correct. This is a perfect junk in my brain forever fact. You're conflating, Jodie Foster was supposed to be the star of Bad News Bears, turned it down to do a little movie called Taxi Driver. There we go. Yes. But no, she'd done some Disney movies. She'd done a lot of like TV stuff. And Freaky Friday is much later. That's after Taxi Driver. That's all later. Like I think, right? Like it's like that's, that's the same year as Taxi Driver. Taxi Driver, that's nuts. That's nuts. What can I tell you? You can do it all. And Bugsy Malone is also the same year. Wow. All three of those are 76? 76. Wow. But you know, she'd done the, the Tom Sawyer movie. She's basically like sort of the second lead of that. That's before whatever. You know, she's a punky little kid. Little tomboy. That's her thing. The perfection of her as a queer icon in this movie, like just from the jump of her being like, yeah, this is. It's funny. This woman had to come out of the Golden Globes 40 years later. It is so funny. It's funny that it's like this overt in this movie and then it's just like, quietly, let's just go back in the closet and not really talk about it for a while. They weren't ready. I want to call it about uh uh leah goldani goldoni yeah sure who was the female lead in shadows the cassavetes movie oh yeah leila leila leila goldani yeah yeah um but is a movie about uh white passing african americans i mean if you've ever seen that iconic shadows poster that's her face she is incredible in that film yes she was a fully caucasian woman the success of that movie critically she's italian yes uh damaged her career right because people assumed right it's this insane thing where she was a white person playing a white passing black person who then lost roles because people assumed she was black and couldn't play white so it just feels like this was kind of a menchie move for scorsese to throw her a role and like we said you know he's he's a devotee of cassavetes well she's in what two scenes like in the very beginning where they're doing like the dress fitting and then the yard sale she's the one who's with her when she gets the phone like that relationship between the two of them is so perfect and real and you know so much about them so as soon as she gets that phone call and then they say goodbye at the car and like the little boys are rolling their eyes at them and they're so emotional it's just wonderful how quickly you get that oh my god they loved this alice fever they gave the best picture right i think they did um yeah the baftas love this movie this movie traveled well did they nominate diane ladd also well the oscars did yeah i just i believe so let me double check that but i think in one screenplay picture actress and then it got yes it got double noms diane ladd won the bafta oh my god and this is you know the baftas treated this like a 75 because they didn't make it to europe till 75 so this is the 1976 baftas so it's beating it won it beat barry lyndon dog day afternoon jaws which i might have some notes on that as much as i like this movie uh and she won best actress and uh and diane land won best supporting actress and won best screenplay yeah they fucking went nuts for it i can only imagine the british viewing audience being like what's this movie about like an arizona diner waitress is better than barry lyndon are we sure um jenna brolin's won the golden globe uh-huh against her she's pretty good in that uh that their movie i think it's maybe the best performance ever committed to film burston didn't win any of the critics awards so i think it must have been seen as a slow flight surprise especially considering the baftas come so much later because i think basically new york film critics nbr uh they all gave it to jenna roland sure it's a tough call man it's a tough call who am i giving it to i guess we'll find out oh yeah that's where you're going anybody that made alfred letter he gave it to one jenna roland's for a woman under the influence my other nominees sissy spacek for bad wait why do i have fade down away for chinatown here i don't know this is a crazy person ellen burston uh brigitte mira for all if you read the song oh sure movie uh anyway the movie alice doesn't live here anymore is about a lady named alice hyatt who lives in new mexico and has a kid whose name is tommy that's right wanted to be a singer damn it she is a singer is uh she's a former singer and now she's married to a guy called donald who is a coca-cola delivery truck driver played by billy greenwood this guy sucks real piece of work but who sucks in just kind of like a boring shitty way yeah it's not even like a true kind of like page turning melodrama kind of like he's the nastiest husband and she casts it it's just like she's just stuck with this loser or not even like harvey kytel he's got charisma he's just a fucking loser kytel is compellingly awful oh my god yeah and it's and it's kytel too so you're kind of like kiss the fucking to this guy we've been talking about this katie it is just so funny that for who's that knock at my door and mean streets kytel is scorsese's analog it is and in a way where past those two movies i would say scorsese does not have self-insert characters you feel him as the character watching the movie and making the movie but there doesn't feel like there's someone who represents him the second he stops having those characters he's like harvey here's the deal i'll still put you in my movies you only play the most contemptible people in the world you play real shit child pedophile judas literal judas hey it's a complex portrayal of judas okay yes the name is name is a bit of a scarlet letter or whatever but it's funny that in this one you're like oh maybe he plays like a sweet guy and i'm like and you're like he's good looking like i know this guy let's see what he does so yeah i mean ben what do you what did you think of this movie i haven't uh i haven't even gotten your take yet because i feel like it's kind of a bad movie i had never seen no sure no i just mean the vibe has sort of been appropriate i loved it yeah it's really good it's it um it really reminded me of my mom and our dynamic your mom sounds really cool and i can see ben having a bit of a tommy a little bit a hundred percent but she uh my mom was uh so funny and silly but slightly aloof like she was always a little unknowable so i just yeah i really saw a lot of her in this character hey ben the actor alfredo alfred lutter who plays tommy new jersey legend he's from ridgewood he graduated from ridgewood high school then he got a bachelor of science and civil engineering from stanford well that's not new jersey but sure well so but we can be proud of him yeah master of science degree he founded lutter consulting a company providing technology strategy and he later started a website called linda.com what is linda.com that's a wikipedia page linda.com became linkedin learning oh wow it's sort of like uh online it was an online learning site that linkedin bought wow he was like an early tech guy yeah the original tech man the original tech man they call him yeah well i so the the this movie reminding you of your mom ben as i think is another thing that feels so important about it to me that it's about like the relationship between a parent and a child in a way that i just don't think that many movies do it where it's like it's a relationship there's there's a push and a pull it's not about a mother's love it's not about like a kid looking up to their parents it's like actually complicated and i can't get over how like real that feels and how rare it is maybe you guys have better examples than i do no i'm thinking as a counterpoint to this kramer versus kramer which is not a movie i love where but it's people very watchable it's a very watchable movie i don't think it's a bad film but it's not a movie i i deeply care for and a lot of people credit hoffman's oscar win for how good he is with the kid but that feels a little more like an actor showing off how good his chemistry can be with a kid and that movie also sets him up to be like you'll never believe how surprisingly good this guy is like it's like big daddy without the jokes of like he really gets it together yeah i it doesn't feel like a very accurate portrayal yeah and it it's so reductive in sort of the way it treats the merle streep character it's like so plot driven being like can he step up to it totally and it's like oh he makes good breakfast what an incredible dad yeah and like in the very beginning of this movie the husband's being a jerk about something or something and he's like oh he makes good breakfast what an another and she goes over to the son and she's basically like hey look help me out here you got to get we got to get around this guy like they are co-conspirators getting through this and that is so often what especially as your kids get older and you can be like look give me a break here i'm trying my best you're trying your best like it's almost like she's letting him kind of see like she's just a person who's trying to figure this out and again she's making some choices i wouldn't make but i love that it makes it they're not equals but it makes it a real back and forth which parent-child things don't do often well let's also call out the inciting incident of this movie which is it's hard to get kids to act on screen like this yeah impressive you know yeah uh her piece of shit husband dies they get in a bad fight yes he hits her it does not seem like this is the first or only time he's a loser and then a day later he dies in a meaningless coca-cola truck accident but i'm saying there's people thirsty out there you're right you're right they need a pep in their it was a costly death yeah didn't you just imagine mart like little marty like staging that accident like the tableau of like the people hanging out of the car it's just like there's some blood on the street it's perfect well you also imagine him being friends with spielberg and being jealous of like duel and being like i have one shot to show the aftermath of duel you know they're not letting me stage action sequences yet nope um but she's grieving a bad relationship yeah she's experiencing real grief for this and her son is as well and she tries to take this as an opportunity to uproot her life something she's clearly dreamed of doing but not felt the courage to do uh it felt too radical to blow up her life in order to do that but now her life has been blown up for her and so so much of the weird tension between her and her son is that her son is like grieving the loss of a father who he's starting to realize like maybe suck yeah yeah and the kid is just getting into the age where you start thinking of your parents as people too like he was already feeling that way yeah like he's at the perfect phase to see her as a person and to look back at his dad it's not just like a hero right he was putting salt in the coffee which does feel let's call it out very ben it feels like a little bad move definitely yeah ben i was wondering if like something where she's saying like if you keep your mouth open one more time i'm gonna throw you out he just like opens his mouth as wide as he can is that a little ben move yes definitely like i'll show you the final work around you can't slam my mouth shut while you're driving so what happened so husband dies i think it's really well played by her where she's sad because her husband died plays the emotion quite honestly but just you just kind of buy that she pretty quickly is kind of like snapped out of a dream or whatever like that she's just kind of like let's just go like there's nothing fucking there's no reason for us to be here like well it's the past tense present tense thing of like i think of myself as someone who wanted to be a singer and didn't have the courage to follow through right so and then she just decides like i am a singer i sing there's nothing keeping me here why not re-construct my life around this dream and fairly quickly that scene of her singing at the piano at home where like it lingers on her singing for a while and you get the kid outside and he's kind of like reframing how he thinks of her like it's an interesting venture into his perspective about her talent which you don't get that much of and it's i mean it's just like really well done that's one of the early moments where you're like oh here's here's marty testing it out figuring out what he can do with the camera and the leila goldani character reads as her one person support system yeah just like this is kind of scary for her to go out there are no you know she there's the notion of the family home of going back to where she came from but it doesn't feel like there's a solid base of support from her family extent do we even know who's in monterey like she talks about it all the time but like who are they going not really yeah yeah i mean you also have no sense of the kids life but he's a kid i guess he's gonna make those kids go where he could be like i have friends at school or it's like too bad baby we're fucking in the room jody foster and some wine waiting for you um so she gets him to phoenix right like that's where she gets him to where she starts singing i mean this says she finds work as a lounge singer like in the narrative kind of i would barely call it singing in lounges yeah it's like if there's like a microphone over there if you really want to go over the griminess of these bars that she's going to like bars in the 70s just for not uh they didn't seem like fun places to hang out i had my antenna up the whole time i'm like jesus is someone gonna be like a mega creep or whatever and instead they're all just kind of like i don't know like you know there's the why don't you turn around a moment yeah yeah yeah but no one's ever like oh yeah you can have this gig if you come with me over here there's no compliance but this was kind of a style of a bar of a very particular time and basically just like kind of don't bug anyone like sing something that'll be nice in the background but like this is like a little value add on beyond yeah right right bars with no windows like i remember them being some around when i was a kid like after this but like you would never like women wouldn't go to these bars much like you wouldn't bring your kids into any of these places but let's also just call out the like the velvet opening titles then this like which is so shocking red soundstage completely as you said very like beginning of wizard of oz it felt like the one big idea marty has right like he's like i want to do this i know i don't have a lot of money but like i want to do this one thing right this this little girl like practicing this hymn over and over again it literally says like monterey california alice a young girl yeah and then it's just sort of like her loneliness you only see her parents in like silhouette basically and they're like yelling at her yeah you you get a sense of why this person didn't have the courage to follow their dreams and has settled in their life that's what this movie brought and she's singing a song about caring and no one cares about her i mean he was a good kisser guys oh the husband give it up for donald i think that's his name donald i love when she tells the kid like ask me again in a few years and i'll explain it to you he's like what are you gonna say to him when he's 14 yeah that's not a good conversation that's that's really just pushing things off well i think she'll say to slightly open your mouth uh-huh instead of like yes you know try going too wild you're you're about to eat someone's skull with that kind of pet mouth right now this film was shot in tucson arizona where it's set why is it set in arizona why not okay really good answer don't really know i mean marty says it was a movie town you could do anything you want there it's a great town to shoot in i was just thinking about spielberg like having kind of that like southern u.s part of things to himself and marty being like let me out of new york it's a place back then you know arizona in you know after the war is but you know 60s 70s there's a ton of space it's cheap as hell and it's growing and like it's not even really begun to explode and the way that the southwest would but like it makes sense for somewhere someone's gonna go where it's like well you know there'll be something for me to do over there right you know like it's like jody foster says it's a weird place i think it's weird i mean like honestly like the southwest obviously has its own character to it now but yeah back then i bet you it was pretty weird yeah like a lot of a single thing about tucson except for place on this movie basically i think i don't know much about tucson either it's not far from phoenix i think of it as the kind of crunchier more liberal cousin to phoenix it's a big town you know i don't know the jody line is my favorite single line of writing in this movie which is weird very weird he's even weird for tucson and tucson is the weird capital of the world right i mean it's the it's the college you know it's where the university arizona is so it's got the you know you know the you know from college towns you're a southern gal from college towns exactly university right around the corner you live in like an old school house right you like accidentally yeah yeah exactly i don't just live with a 10 year old and a seven year old with like 20 20 year olds or i guess more of a neighbor's house maybe yeah warring with the frat boys yes so yeah they went a week over uh production you know they went a week over schedule went a little over budget you know it's marty just getting ready for his real sojourns but a little over budget it's 1.6 million yeah it was budgeted at 1.6 and ended up more like 1.8 or whatever sure uh there was a gas crisis which was an issue to deal with that you're saying i was gonna say this was also uh you know mean streets was basically an independent film that became a negative pickup for warner bryant brothers this is him like making a film for warner brothers i think that must have also been appealing to him you know it's a lot easier to sell them david strong as his shirt i'm wearing the 70s logo it's a lot easier to sell them on something like taxi driver that seems really risky at columbia when it's like you made a studio film you were responsible enough the amount you went over budget was more than covered by the success and you won someone an oscar do we think he had final cut on this probably not right yeah um well you never know in the 70s i guess i don't think they cared as much i don't know if you tested well they wouldn't yeah yeah my guess is well anyway i'm not like look on page 15 we need alice already at the diner like they're not coming in with those dumb notes i will say and yet this was turned into a sitcom i knew hollywood and then they're they watch and they're like okay well but actually diner page one every tuesday night why do they end up in tucson well there was literally a gas crisis and they could not make it to tucson basically it has nothing to do with the picture has everything to do with production is what martin wow okay there you go everything nothing was shot in la except the opening sequence was on on a lot obviously the the red prologue he basically says i had a chance to use a hollywood set how else are you going to do a flashback how do you want to do a flashback that's the whole point goddamn script opened and said flashback 1948 monterey california and he was just adamant you know they're like what if you do like black and white like that that would make more sense and he's just like the characters hung up on movies i feel like she would remember in this kind of half fantasy way it should look like a 40s movie it should look kind of indoors he admits i got a little crazy with the redness it's very i had fun with the fog it feels like marty being like i love old movies yeah let me make stuff access just for a day or two to the tricks and who knows how long i get this has he everyone on the soundstage before doing that like probably not probably not and he says it's a square screen it's 130 academy ratio you know the first scene is tobacco road it's copied exactly obviously wizard of oz dueling the sun for the red list of this redness of the sky little east of eden little gone with the wind you know he's got a lot of it was like uh william cameron menzies uh invaders from mars of course uh it's like it was like one-fifth of the budget it cost eighty five thousand dollars which was okay so yeah and he's like and my first feature who's that knocking cost thirty five thousand dollars for the whole movie like definitely easy right um so yeah it's like him for the first time getting to you know play in hollywood yeah and warner brothers watches the movie and their one thing is like can we fucking cut that weird crazy opening with all the red and marty's like take my name off the picture like i'm going crazy you know like immediately i'm sure they were just like oh jesus who cares uh burst and ran into peter bogdanovich and says i'm doing alice with this guy martin scorsese and he said tell him not to move his camera so much and ellen says i did not relay that to marty he moves it quite a bit it's funny he loves to move that camera this feels like his most kinetic camera work until goodfellas like oh yeah this movie in sequences has the coke energy and the way the camera moves into the conversation yes yeah uh one idea he wanted as many women in authority on the picture as possible sandy weintraub is the producer toby raffleson art director marcia lucas is the editor he wanted to be as honest as possible he wasn't trying to make a feminist tract but he wants this movie you know about women to be uh in front of women and being like he wanted to find out what women are like no what you don't know yeah and trusts marsh's judgment implicitly and he says like hey you know i know a stained glass guy i was delighted by the return of marcia lucas as a character for this podcast i don't know how long it's been since you guys i mean she only edits what his first three or four like it's a taxi is taxi driver the last time i think with him because telma reappears and then she goes on to star wars new york new york is her last time she works with him and then she goes on to star wars the next year i don't know oh okay yeah and which was a famously easy movie to edit uh settled and make yes yes everything about it the first cut okay this is your thing the assembly was three hours and 16 minutes ton of character stuff gets thrown out uh you know like the husband there's a lot more of him you know i mean wisely they reduce him to about 10 minutes he's like we have to get in the car you don't need anything from him to find out what his deal is that's the difference is you know i want to make movies primarily out of the scenes that anyone else would cut out of a film the scenes that are not the interesting part part or the exciting part, but I want to show where the drama is in that. And it makes sense that Marty would want to shoot all of those things and then ultimately whittle it down to that stuff helps inform the other stuff. Keep the most exciting moments and the major plot points. It helps that he dies within 15 minutes or less. I completely agree. Yeah. Now I want to talk about, I want to give you some news on the, like some research on the ending, but let's talk about the movie first to get to the ending. Cause it's an iconic ending, obviously, but a shithead husband dies. She goes to, she goes to Phoenix. She starts being a lounge singer and she meets a handsome fellow, Harvey Keitel. Chill. She calls him a baby. He's kind of a baby face and he has kind of the moppy haircut. Like it makes him look younger. He's so adamant that he looks like he's underage. And I'm like, Harvey Keitel was born looking like a Vietnam vet. He doesn't look like underage. He's got a baby face quality for Harvey Keitel. And it's that thing where you see actors when they're young now. So you're like, Oh my God, they look so young. Yes. Like De Niro looks more like a baby at this point than Keitel does. No question. Keitel just always had old man features. Yes. Even when he was young and his skin was smooth. But she shouldn't have trusted him. She, her first instinct was correct. Yes. Her first instinct is correct. He is, well, he's a married guy who's having an affair. I mean, it's actually not that complicated. He's also violent. Yeah, no, he's a jerk as well, but like his big secret is just like, Oh, I am. Cheating on my wife with you is, is, is sort of, is dark. But David, it's justified because he says his wife is crazy. She's crazy. For example, she shows up asking why I'm sleeping with another woman. How dare she? She's angry. I fuck other people. This lunatic. This calls for a switchblade. Breaking some glass, the door, and then he does the entire dresser. Yeah. It is funny that like Scorsese is now doing the break of you're no longer my leading man. And yet in this performance, he kind of gives everyone the like show reel to be like, Hey, and here's how you use Harvey Keitel. He does. And they do. I wonder if Keitel resents it in a way of kind of like the way Marty shifted me to the supporting character, the villainous character that just became my type. Like, cause even when it's the lead, he's a villainous lead. Well, is there a story if you've done Taxi Driver yet of like why it's not Keitel, why it's De Niro in the lead? Never even considered. And beyond that, that was a De Niro part. Beyond that, a sport was written to be black and very wisely. The studio was like, if the pimp is black, the end of this movie is a little charged. Right. So yeah, no, it was always De Niro. He was obsessed with De Niro. I mean, I think, I think it truly was like he fell in love with him on mean streets and was like, this guy is the key. As does everybody who watches mean streets. De Niro is unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He P good. He P good. He P good. Which is different than PP. Good. The award they gave the exorcist. So good. I love that at the end of that Keitel scene in the motel where like they get out of there and the camera just stays for a little bit and you see all of the wreckage. It made me think about, I haven't rewatched Raging Bull in a while, but like that big, like domestic fight there. And like in that movie, you're with the guy and this is like the woman's point of view of this like dumb bullshit. These men are obviously in Raging Bull. That stuff is very powerful and it's very, but like this stuff gets me even more where she's just trying to keep it together for the kids. Yeah. After all that, this is Ellen Burstyn's superpower. Her fastball is like, has anyone better at quiet suffering than her? She has this fascinating balance of feeling really steely and strong and the kind of person who could say, try silence and break you for decades. And also at all times, you're like, is she on the verge of breaking down in tears? I just wish you had recorded her saying try silence so that I could then play it on the podcast when I need you to try silence. You got that big red button in front of you. You can just play try silence to wrap up the show. She's just, I feel like that's kind of where she wins the Oscar more than anything, right? It's just how well she plays the sort of, and just like the betrayal of like, I fucking, you know, let someone in. I'm in this like fragile situation. She seemed nice, you know, and then here I am again, like in front of my kid, like getting humiliated like this and like being scary, you know. What felt irresponsible to her was that she was starting an affair with a man who was so much younger. Like she was like, this is silly and maybe I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not like wise of me. What she realizes is I fell for the same type of guy again, which I think really devastates her. Well, and it's so episodic because like you could make a version of this movie where she gets on the road and lands at the diner and the movie's about the diner, but you need this sense of like, oh no, like something in me is making these choices again. I gotta get out of this. You need her to sort of abandon her dream again. She's just starting to be like, well, maybe I could take it. It's like, no, I need to get the fuck out of here. I need to just take a job as a keep my head above water for the kid. It's also so big though, that it's not the movie's not Nashville. It's not, I always wanted to be a country music star and now I'm going to pursue my dream. It is, I miss singing for a living. Right. Like once upon a time, I liked that. I'm also happy if that paycheck is 50% serving beers and 50% singing one song a night. You know, that was also the moment right before she met her husband. Yeah. So it really is like, she's like, I want to start right from where I left off. Free version of myself. Yeah. Yeah. Can we also shut up before we move on to the diner? I love the bar owner. The one that hires her. Yes. Yes. He's just got some great, funny moments. He has this one part I wrote down where she asks, what's a song he likes? And he just starts saying lyrics to her. And she's like, I don't know that song. And he's like, well, why jazz? I mean, ironically, this is a movie. This is a movie made up of characters. That feel like they could be sitcom archetypes. And yet all of them are played like real people. Right. It's like Cassavetes sitcom. Right. Yeah. I mean, and then the sitcom, I, I never really watched Dallas. I've maybe seen it on TV once, but like, I assume is more sitcom sitcom. The criterion disc has all nine seasons on it. Right. I'm going to find out. You have to play it backwards. Yeah. At least have the pilot. Yeah. Throw it on there. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. When's the water fight scene? I love the water fight scene. That's a classic, like. Mother son thing where it's like, we're having fun. We've kind of, we've, it's gone out of control because boys are too excitable. I think it's after that. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it is a little bit like you can mess with your kid in a way like that. She's not hurting him, but like they're both taking it too far because you kind of like get on your kid's level and do things like that. You are a parent of a child of two sons. It's true. Katie Rich. I am also a parent of two sons, but they are in a different part of life. You are a parent of sons closer to this, this age. And like you, I feel like can speak more to right. Like what that is like and what, what maybe when, when can you say what I might be in for, but like, like to, to what is this feels like an underrated mother son movie underrated only in that it's not discussed all the time. Like it was rated well at the time, but like it does feel like it kind of name nails that specific dynamic. You don't see like that's a less discussed dynamic in movies, right? Mother son. Like I remember again, talking about like Charlie is a baby who was on this podcast. I remember talking about like Charlie is a baby who was on this podcast. I remember having this baby and being like, why are they not movies about like the relationship between a parent and a baby? Cause this is the most fascinating relationship I've ever had in my entire life. Sure. There is a reason for that. Like I now am aware that it's better if they can talk, but it is totally nailed it. There's no reason to make any other commentary on them. It is just a specific thing of like, I made this person, I am responsible for this person. And, but like they make, they turn you into a kid again in some weird way. They make you think about things like they say the weirdest stuff and you kind of just have to roll with it. They tell terrible jokes. In that way. And like the two of them against the world, like, and David, you may have this feeling if you're just like, even without your wife, you're just with your kids and you're like, all right, it's just us. We got to figure this out. Like you're, we're at about, we got to get through the subway or down the street. And this is such a heightened version of that where it's like, I got you under my arm and we're going to make our way through the world. And it's really moving the, the way that it gets into the weirdness of it, but also has that kind of bedrock. We're in, we're in this together part of it. Um, I want to say a couple of things. First of all, it's the actress who plays Rita, who's Keitel's wife, who I think is incredibly good in one extended scene. It's just a smart decision to not have it be the, like, she comes storming in, who's the harpy who's sleeping with my wife. She's so sad. She's so sad. And she's so empathetic. And she's like, I'm trying to warn you. I'm trying to save you even more than I'm mad at him and I'm trying to catch him. Yeah. She also has a son. Yes. Who has some kind of health issue. And he's clearly just doesn't want to deal with the extra difficulty of that burden of that responsibility. And Ellen Burstyn, that scene where she just immediately is just like, oh yeah. Okay. Yes. We have to have this conversation. She's not trying to get out of it. She's not trying to make any excuses. She like takes responsibility instantly. The water fight scene is basically right after her first day at the diner, I think. And it's, it, you feel that it's her trying so hard to make her son's life fun again, because there's been so much upheaval. And then it just comes to that point where she's just kind of like, okay, all right. I need to be a parent. It's like, you gotta sit down at the diner and be bored. I don't care if you're bored. Yeah. Because it's that feeling. It's that feeling of like, not just I want to console him emotionally, but just like, this has all been so dramatic that I can't even pretend it's normal. So what if instead I act like a little kid for like one night? I get to his level a little bit more. And at least it's just kind of fun. Just because people have probably been yelling at the podcast, I didn't make this connection. Basically, the only other movie that Alfred Lutter was in is Bad News Bears. Oh, sure. Where he plays the brainy nerd in that and the first sequel. Great movie. You know, it's great. The Bad News Bears? Yeah. But do you know what else? saying bad news. Bears as a term. Baseball. There we go. Baseball. The crack of the bat. Crack of the bat, I do like. I don't remember if this comes before or after the water, but there's like the kid in the hotel room alone where he's like sitting two inches from the television and watching some old movie. I didn't recognize it. I don't know if you guys did. Good question. But that felt like Scorsese self-insert. Like this lonely boy watching old movies by himself. Yeah, except this kid doesn't have asthma, so he can go out and flirt with Jodie Foster. He just chooses not to. Yes. I feel like he's watching though something where it has a singer that's kind of in the tradition of what his mom is pursuing. It's a Betty Grable movie called Coney Island. Oh, there you go. And right. And those old Betty Grable movies, that's the kind of music Scorsese was thinking of when she's like, I wish I was a singer. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. But yeah, she gets to Mel's diner and we establish what will be one of the greatest ensembles in sitcom history. And it is immediately like, oh yeah, I want to hang out here. Dinelad is so fucking good in there. Jesus, she's so good in there. She is. She is money in the goddamn bank. I swear to God. Nuts. Because like she got the Oscar nom for this and you watch the movie and you're like, huh, like she doesn't have a huge role. Like it's funny that she snuck in, but then you just think about her and you're like, she's just so great every second she's on screen. It's an incredible thing. And she communicates the authenticity of the character just so perfectly. And it's sort of like a star is born performance. Yeah. Just like, I just love watching this person. 100%. And I like that they don't get along. Yeah. She's pretty tough with her at first. Yeah. Yeah. Making comments about her body in front of everyone. But then they have that scene where she freaks out when the short order cook or whatever asks her where's Vera and her line is, she went to shit and the hogs ate her. And the like explosion of the, what is it? The ketchup all over her apron. Right. The great Valerie Curtin as Vera, the sort of the quieter. She's so funny. I mean, the very end of the movie when they're in the bathroom talking and it just keeps coming back to Vera, like trying to like handle all the place. It's just like crying when people are throwing napkins at her. It's amazing. The cousin to Jane Curtin. Of course. But the scene where they're finally sort of endeared to each other and Diane Ladd starts giving her the tips and here's how you get good tips. And then it turns into them like sunbathing. Oh, yeah. It goes from this moment of just like reflection and respect to just like, actually, let's try to get some color. Well, and it's like female friendship again. And it made me think about Scorsese. Like Age of Innocence or Silence or these other movies where he's like, what is this world? How can I figure out how this works? And it is kind of him being like, what's it like to be a woman with a friend? And that curiosity drives it and makes it feel so true in the process. Yeah. Yeah. And he hired good people. He surrounded himself with good people. He did. You guys ever work in a diner? No. Did you ever work in a diner, David? No. Just like, seems like such a cool, you know, like gig. Oh, it seems so hard. I mean, nothing feels more stressful to me than that. But like, when I say cool, I don't mean like cool to do, but just like, it's like having like epaulettes, you know, stars on your. It's a badger. It's a purple heart. What's more badass than being like a line cook or a fucking diner waiter? Yeah, the scariest people you're ever going to meet in your life. I went to my friend Caitlin's wedding last weekend. Humblebrag. Thank you. A co-host of It's Different. Secret podcast. My not secret podcast about baseball that you should definitely subscribe to. And we drove through. Through Pennsylvania, the great state. And we stopped at a diner in Scranton that had real Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore vibes where we walked in because we're hungry. And it's like, we're in a rush. You know, we're trying to. It's a seven hour drive. And we walk in and we're like, oh, fuck, should we turn around? Because the vibes were bad. In what way? One, there was kind of just no one around. I mean, there were customers, but there's no waiters around. And then we see one waitress and she has just like the worst like scowl on her face. And we're just like, oh boy. And we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's like, yeah, and we're like, okay. And we like sit down. And then like, we are served fantastic food. Like the food rocked. Like an exceptional BLT and grilled cheese sandwich, right? They don't need to woo you. They got great food. You can do whatever you want. And then we realized like, oh, there's some drama happening where the waitress, I think, just maybe got in a fight with another customer. And then maybe got chewed out by a boss. And now she's complaining to somebody else about, you know, how fuck this plate. You know what I mean? And then when she like, gave us her check, we were like, the food was really great. And she's just like, you know, that actually means a lot to hear it. And we're like, oh my God. You made her day. What is happening in this fucking time? And that's what it's like. And Alice doesn't live here anymore. We're like, what's going on with all these people? It's just so intense. And like, there's such, this is every waffle house. People get your arms around. Right. Exactly. I know we started with it, but you go in that waffle house because you see the whole kitchen is right there in front of you. And you're just, you sit there long enough. You can figure out everybody's dealing. Everyone's mad at each other. Isn't waffle house even more intense because it's 24 hours. So you have to be like, you're like a fucking Navy seal in there. If you're working like a night shift. They have seen absolutely everything. The waffle house storm warning thing. Yeah. It's totally real. You know about this, right, David? Go ahead. The waffle house index, where if the waffle house closes, some waffle houses are closed, it's orange. It's like the National Weather Service or FEMA or whatever branch of the government still cares about this stuff. How serious the threat. Right. If waffle house has to be like, you better get the fuck out of there. Maybe a limited menu today. Yeah, they will, they will. If waffle house is closed, you better get FEMA in there immediately. That's the thing. Like they don't even take their notes from the government. The government goes like, oh, fuck that waffle house is closing. Yeah. Because those people are, they have seen absolutely everything. I want to go to waffle house. Come on. You remember pre-COVID, you guys were like, we're driving to Florida. Yeah, we had a plan. Yeah, there was a plan and then David had a bunch of kids. Summer 2020. He kept slipping and having another kid. It can still happen. Throw everybody in the car. Come on down. The closest waffle house to lease last I checked is in Allentown. Allentown, Pennsylvania. Yeah, I went there. I went there. When I lived here, I remember looking it up at some point because I'm so deeply devoted to waffle house. It's like a two hour drive. It's pretty far. I think you might be mad if you drove two hours to waffle house. It's one of those things where it's like, I need something that's open now and when you're a teenager is somewhere you can go and that is where the two hour drive is. Yeah, it's still there. It's near Allentown. I've never had a waffle house meal not exceed my expectations and I go in with sky high expectations and every time it just delivers. I like the waffles. It does too, to be clear. Obviously, the hash browns are what everyone talks about but I think the waffles. They have a hash brown bowl now where you can get like a hash brown with cheese and an egg on top of it. This isn't coming. It's really good. It sounds good, although I don't know if I need any newfangled additions. It's been there probably for 15 years. Okay, well. It's a little newfangled. Oh, yeah. Whippersnapper. You can't change these things on me. Kristofferson doesn't enter the movie until like an hour and 15 minutes in. He does not. If you saw the poster and were like, can't wait to see Chris K. You're kind of like, wait. This is my guy, you know? Especially since like we've already had a she wants to be a musician arc. Yes. And he didn't appear for that. And two bad relationships. Yes. And then he's just like, you know, what's his name? David. Hey, it's my name. Hey. He's one of the guys. He's a custer. He's divorced. He's a rancher. Got a farm. Plays a little guitar. Got a nice little beer. He's got some blowing locks. Might want to run your fingers through him. He does. But he, he shows up around the same time that she finally kind of gets her standing within Mel's. I mean, God damn. Like Harvey Keitel fucks her up so bad that she won't fuck Chris Christopherson right away. Like she should be fucking him right away. And Keitel should be on this side. But she's got to learn how to have some restraint. Life is tough. Yeah. Life is tough. However, he is, he does spank kids. And she does get mad at him as saying you're the kind of guy who hits kids. And then watching this now, you're like, yeah, don't, don't, don't get with that guy. That doesn't feel shocking to me in the same way. I guess that she gets so mad. She gets so mad at him about it. Sure. Well, he shouldn't spank her kid. I guess that's what it is. He's not the kid's dad. But I think he wants to be. And when he comes back to her, you can't, I was waiting for him to be like, oh, and yeah, I shouldn't have hit your kid. And he doesn't do that. He's kind of like, yeah, man. He doesn't quite do that. Yeah. It's not a sticking point for me. To be clear, I'm not pro spanking kids. I just feel like in the seventies, plenty more kids were getting spanked. Right. I mean, I assume. But then the extent of what she was mad at him for it, like, does he apologize enough for that? For her to take him back in that great scene? They've been through so much together. It's true. And like the last thing that poor kids needs is someone laying hands on him. Exactly. Like he's witnessed violence. He's just been in that car. You know, she understands her kid emotionally. I mean, he was being a jerk in that scene with Christopher Soperson. You know, 12 year old. It's got the foulest mouth. We should also call out that he has been sneaking around with Jodie Foster, drinking wine. Oh, yeah. Drinking wine, shoplifting. Learning about grown up stuff. Mm hmm. Being bad kids. Jodie Foster has a foolproof plan for shoplifting from that guitar store, though. Oh, that's the classic move. Oh, yeah. Create a distraction. Uh huh. Someone else grabs the thing, shoves it down their pants. Yeah. Been there. Done that. Are you more the kid or are you Jodie Foster? Like of these kids, who are you relating to more? Hmm. Interesting. What does she say to the cops when she leaves the police station? Like she say like suck it pigs or something. I think so. It's so good. It is so good. She's pretty cool. She's a badass. I was a little bit of the bad influence at times. Okay. But then also sometimes the one who took the bad influence. Uh huh. Yeah. It's an exchange. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. What happens? I mean, not really. They hang out at his ranch. Yeah. Once the, uh, the spanking happens, uh, we're pretty close to the resolve of the movie. Yeah. You get the great scene with them in the bathroom where Diane lads, like, you're mad at him. It sounds like you love him and she's crying and they're laughing and it's, it's perfect. She doesn't want to fall into the same thing again. Yeah. Why would she? And it's, she's jumping at the first trigger. Mm hmm. But ultimately the, the fact that this man is willing to apologize. And it is Chris Christopherson. Christofferson. He is Chris Christofferson. Your face keeps turning bright red. What's going on on your screen? Is he turning bright red? I do have a Reader's Digest story about the Titan implosion which happened three years ago. Rest in peace to all those beautiful people. Open. I think it was a weird autoplay. It's very relevant to this current conversation. It looks like a Waffle House storm warning is happening on David's face. Jodie Foster says when she exits the police station, so long suckers. She's got kind of a roadrunner energy to her. Oh my god. Remember when that fucking thing three years ago? The Titanic sub. It was three years ago. I just never forget where they're like, a thing's lost down there. And I'm like, oh, what is it? And they're like, I'll check it out. It's this kind of metal tuba guy threw together. It's got like a PlayStation control. And I'm like, this was being sent down regularly? And it was like one guy in there alone? No, like 10 rich people. There would be those cartoons where it was like, you know, five little stick figures inside. And you're just like, what is this? You sound a lot like James Cameron, who spent a lot of time on television there being like, I knew it wasn't going to work. Mistake for me. I kind of told you that thing was going to explode. It's the funniest thing in the world where he's like, I knew they blew up. Fuck them. Would you stay with a man who spanked your children without permission? No, it is something I feel very strongly about, actually. I think it would really upset me. But I mean, I don't live in 1973. I know. I don't know if I would feel differently then. But I'm not pro-spanking, no. It made me think about how, I don't know if you experienced this too, David, it's like, other kids are much more annoying to me than my own. Like, I have a much higher threshold for like what I can put up with from my kids. And you're around like your kids' friends and you're just like, I can't do this right now. But. Yeah, no, I mean, right. Hard not to be like judgy. We're just like, my tolerance has reached a limit. Like, I cannot listen to your jokes anymore. You don't belong to me. I don't have to do this. So I guess Chris Christopherson being like, I'll listen to this kid's bad jokes. Yeah. He gets. Do you guys understand the joke that he's trying to tell about the nuts? Uh. I do not. I can't figure it out. It really pissed me off, honestly, even in the movie. I was like, shut the fuck up. It makes no sense. Because he tells it to Chris Christopherson, too, who's doing the same thing and being like, mm-hmm. I'm really doing my best here. I mean, I feel like the joke is that, you know, the nuts are balls. Yes. And like, there's kind of like a dirty joke happening here. You sound like the kid explaining it. Right. But it just never quite gets resolved. And they, like, the adults keep kind of like interrupting him to give sort of what they think is the punchline, I think, because they want him to shut up. Yeah. And so that ruins it only more. He's, you know, he's a little annoying, but, uh, yeah, no spanking. You know, you don't want to associate discipline with violence. Would you go live on that ranch, though? He's growing, like, alfalfa, I think? Look. Look. Okay. I don't want to live in Arizona. You're a city boy. You don't want to live on this ranch. Well, I'm just saying, like, if I wanted to live in the countryside, my guess is I would want a more verdant and moist part of the world. I'm not really a dry heat guy. Not what I grew up with. Not really what I'm used to. I think I'd probably. You need a steamer and not a sauna. Yeah. Oh, you know I am. I love a steamer. I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What about you, Ben? Would you go live on that ranch? I'd love to ride a dang horse. Yeah, you love the horse. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, are you built for Phoenix? Like, what do you think? Are you in Arizona? No. Getting out there? No. Cacti? I couldn't do it. Tumbleweeds? I've actually never been to the desert. Is that a goal we could make for you? Ooh, road trip? Next time you go to L.A., it's not that far. You can drive, like, two hours out and you're in the desert. And I, as, like, an East Coaster, I have the same thing where you get out there, you're like, God, those mountains are, like, a hundred miles away. How is this possible? Right. Now, Griffin, I'm gonna. I'm not one of them. I don't want to speak for you. But I'm also gonna assume, like, the Arizona desert may be not your preferred place. You're not moving to that ranch with Chris Christopherson? No. What about a visit? I did a. Go get a cup of coffee, you know? I've been to Arizona. I did a short film in Albuquerque a couple years ago. Yeah, I remember. And my body almost retired. You got off the plane and your body was like, I'm gonna sit this one out. You're gonna have to figure it out all by yourself. Physically incompatible. We shot a. We were supposed to shoot a thing. It was, like, a survivalist post-apocalyptic thing. And I'm supposed to be someone who's not well-suited for that. Sure. And even then, we shot a thing at the top of a mountain, very high altitude. And my eyes were just like, oh, by the way, we're not gonna open. I couldn't stop crying and I couldn't keep my eyes open. And we had to shoot around it and they put me in a car and put the car seat all the way back and then, like, poured a bunch of water on a towel and I just lay there with a wet towel over my eyes for, like, two hours until it reset a little bit. Sounds pretty good, actually. A little bit. Wow. There was also, like, a dust storm. So let's keep you in the Northeast. I like being here. I would think that Scorsese honestly would be in the same way. He does not feel like a creature of the West. But I think he found it very interesting as just an alien landscape. Yes. And film-wise, it was exciting for him to have this alien landscape. Yeah, well, he goes back for Killers of the Flower Moon 40 years later. That's true. And I assume he directed from within a plastic bubble. I sort of assume that, too. Probably for both of those movies. The ending is very, very, like, great, is great cinema. Because it's got this sort of touch of ambiguity to it. It's got this kind of earthy naturalism to it. Oh, the very end with them walking down the street. You know, and just him coming back to it. Now, it's written as more of a straightforward happy ending. They get married. Burstyn is just, like, I don't want it to have that kind of a cut-and-dry ending. Like, why does she have to end up with a man? So, you know, she insists on rewrites and Warner Brothers is like, we're not fucking doing an unhappy ending. Like, they're like, we had just done Scarecrow. Oh, sure. Paul Mazurski, right? No, it's not Mazurski. No, I'm sorry. Like, Gruesberg? No, it's neither. What a fool I am. Carl Rice? Is that who it is? No, come on. I'm so annoyed by this right now. Who directed it? Jerry Shatner. There we go. Jesus Christ. It only took seven tries. Fucking obviously Jerry Shatner. What an embarrassing thing for me to say. Ben's mocking us right now. Paddock and Needle Park, you know. And he's like, and Scarecrow has this happy ending and that made no fucking money. We're not doing an unhappy ending again. And Ellen Burstyn's like, I'm not saying unhappy ending. I'm just saying, does she need to end up with a man? Like, are you telling me she doesn't end up with a man is an unhappy ending? Everything can't be perfect at the end. And he's like, what I'm telling you is she doesn't end up with a man. We're not making the movie. It's the one time they kind of push back in terms of like, sorry. And so they kind of compromise on this. Like she sort of says, maybe we'll get back. You know, like it's a little more ambiguous, right? They'll try. It's a pretty good ending. I can't deny, you know. You get the kiss in the diner and everyone's clapping and like you get the energy of that scene. Even leading up to that when they're in the bathroom. Oh God. She really breaks down. That is like, I think one of the best scenes. Yeah. And like that's more of the emphasis than the one with Kristofferson almost. So that's bursting kind of getting what she wants is that friendship is so important. The way she puts it is Kris improvises, okay, come on, I'll take you to Monterey. And like, it's not about staying on the ranch or, you know, it's more of a free exchange. The man is willing to support the woman in her aspirations. He's making a sacrifice. Exactly. He's sort of releasing me from the bondage of the old way of thinking. Thank God for Kris. He was smart and aware, you know, so she's she's like, she's pretty happy with how it goes. Scorsese still acknowledges like, yeah, it's a little pat that like she gets the handsome man at the end. But I think we do a good job suggesting like it's still probably going to be kind of stormy. Like it's not like Kristofferson's like, I'll chill out. It does feel like this scene. I know this vampire hunter. Let's go find a blade. It does feel like the other patrons applauding and getting roped up in him having to make the big apology in front of everybody feels like the scene that gives them the codex to be able to make a sitcom. Like true. It's the one scene where it's like the diner is acting like one organism. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Laura Dern in the background as they small shot eating ice cream, according to Wikipedia. I think I spotted her. She's like right behind Ellen Burstyn, I think. Because of course, daughter of Diane Ladd. This is her first onscreen appearance. She's got huge glasses. Yes. Oh, yeah. Wow. She's so cute. Roger Ebert says the movie's been both. Wait, we should talk about the actual ending of the movie. The actual ending of course is it's what saves the movie for me. Yes. Is that if it ended on everyone applauding her and Kristofferson kissing. Well, then that's too. Right. Yeah. But it goes back to the kid that goes back to her relationship with her son. Yeah. I'm laughing because I'm watching the bathroom scene and they're cutting back to the other Vera. Oh, my God. It's so funny. And everyone's getting into a fight and there's so much chaos. And so funny. Tommy saying, Mom, I can't breathe is also improvised and is very sweet. That's good. You know, like that's because she truly was. Yes. Squeezing too tight. Yeah. Yeah. But and they're walking down that like kind of shitty street and there's the sign in front of them that says Monterey. Like that's the version of what they're heading toward. But I guess I live there. I got all that. All that fish got a big aquarium. Oh, in Monterey? Yeah. Oh, sure. Where is Monterey in California? It's like south of San Francisco. Like isn't that where Big Little Lies is set? I think so. Yes. Yes. And everything went well for those guys. If you're not that rich, it might turn out fine for you. Remember how Adam Scott's in that? Yeah. It sure is. It's like, you know, all this, you know, insane dramas hanging happening. He's like, this sucks. Witherspoon's husband? Yeah. And he's like a tech guy. And she's like, I'm going crazy about the school board. And he's like, okay. It's like, this is a one and done, right? Limited series, no second season? Did he come back for the second season? I think he does. I watched it. It's all kind of vanished from my brain in that show. Oh, yeah. Who was Dern's husband? Oh. Because Skarsgård's obviously married to Nicole Kidman. That's so true. And Shailene doesn't have a husband. No, but she falls for somebody in the second season. But Dern definitely - She definitely has a husband. She tells someone, "I will not not be rich." She's Renata. Jeffrey Nordling. Oh, of course. The great Nordling. And then everyone's just kind of scared of Zoe Kravitz. Yeah, well, she's fucking scared. Oh, I forgot about her. But she's married to some guy, too. She's married to someone's ex. Exactly. Is she married to Reese's ex? Yeah, it's Reese's ex. Got it. Okay. And, you know, if you really pay attention, there's a lie or two being told. A big one. Or a little. They could be both, and they could be both at the same time. Roger Ebert. It's just interesting to hear this movie discussed at the time. This movie's been attacked and defended on feminist grounds. It sounds like he's on film Twitter. Like, he's like, I'll wade into the discourse. But Alice doesn't live here anymore. Where are they doing all this fighting? Just in the village voice? Like, where are they? Yeah, in reviews. It's fascinating to consider the way there was discourse at a time where only 20 people had a platform of any size. It was so much more peaceful. I mean, still annoying, probably, but more peaceful. I guess, like, people would write letters into the newspaper and be like, I disagree with that review. Arguing outside Lincoln Center, probably. It's pretty good, Ebert, here, though. I think it belongs somewhere outside ideology, maybe in the area of contemporary myth and romance. You know, the movie seems less banalist than it does, about the speculations and daydreams of a lot of women her age who identify with liberation of other women, but are unsure on the subject of themselves. I think it's a great way of putting it. Pauline Kael. Did she have an opinion on this? She usually was just kind of like, oh, I don't know. It's all right. Three stars. Ben, when David said Pauline Kael, can we edit in, like, a thunderclap? Someone playing the organ. One of the rare films that genuinely deserves to be called controversial. Again, this is Alice Doesn't Live Here. What? It's not fucking Cannibal Holocaust. I think people really fight about it. It's the story of a woman who has a second chance thrust on her. She knows enough not to make the same mistake again, but she isn't sure of much else. Neither is the movie. Oh, Pauline in for the kill after setting up what seemed like a nice review. Oh, boy. It's fascinating that people responded to this like it was Lady Ghostbusters, where they're like, what are they trying to push on us? She's basically like, the movie is totally enjoyable and funny and absorbing. I just don't think it has, like, a take on its big issue. So why does she think it deserves to be controversial? I don't know. Molly Haskell, the great film critic, and obviously a leading voice in feminist film criticism and all that, sort of has the same problem of, like, they're making a women's picture. It's self-consciously. And I think, right, he's sort of playing ironic tribute, and it didn't quite feel authentic enough for me. That makes sense for, like, a critic at the time watching this movie and being, especially given the opening, being like, this is a little too cute for me. I think Marty, you know, doesn't quite know, you know, what he's playing with here or whatever. Now you watch this movie and you're like, my God, if only Hollywood made movies like this anymore. And, like, what a refreshing thing that Scorsese made something like this early in his career with a studio, with a fucking movie star that won Oscars. Like, that's fantastic. At the time, they're basically just kind of like, I don't know. Seems like a bunch of bullshit to me. Like, good for them. Commercial pablum. They could fight about it back then. You know what? Well, now we're just kind of like, take me to the back rooms. Yeah. We get so many of the people, the worst takes on Scorsese being like, he makes these movies that are about men. He hasn't had any understanding of it. And if you just sit someone down and be like, no, this guy made this with the exact amount of curiosity of everything else. Like, it's always been there. I think it's a very good film. It is not, like, my favorite Martin Scorsese movie. I'm not sure I would put it in his top 10. I'm not sure where I put it, though. Where do I have it? I probably have it in, like, his top, you know, 20. He's made a lot of good fucking movies. I think when I did my, like, Letterboxd ranking of them are five-star masterpieces. Like, it's really hard to rank them in that. It's kind of a day-by-day thing. Could I share a quote from a film review in The Times? The New York, who is it by? Vincent Canby. Okay, all right. Alice doesn't live here anymore, has the distinct advantage over most films by growing on you, by getting better and better as it goes along until at the end, you look back over it with some of the wonder and pleasure with which you might suddenly acknowledge an unexpected friendship. I thought that was such a solid. Yeah, that's really good. Oh, summary. It's the Diane Latt of movies. And Canby was not in the Haskell, Kale, like, you know, where he's, like, like, he's a down-the-line movie critic of, like, this is a good experience. Like, you're going to have a good time watching this book. Also, him making this between Mean Streets and Taxi Driver, which are just, like, sad and violent and intense is, like, exactly the. Taxi Driver coming after this. You also just have to think about a lot of people have careers that start out with things like Taxi Driver and Who's That Knockin' on My Door? Or, excuse me, Mean Streets and Who's That Knockin' on My Door? And then it's, like, great, you made your little personal movie. You've shown us that you know how to make a movie on a technical level. Now you're in the studio system. You have to imagine that people could have assumed, is he just going to be a guy who hops from genre to genre and isn't making deeply personal films anymore? And instead, after this, every movie he makes feels. Almost every movie he makes feels very personal, even when it is a genre exercise. Are you calling Mean Streets the guarantor? Or is this the guarantor that gets Taxi Driver? It's kind of a double. It's, like, the two pieces help. It helps to have made a movie that succeeded, have made money. Like, I don't think anyone's watching this being, like, I think he's already working on Taxi Driver in some sense. Because Taxi Driver is the blank check. The first one, for sure. Sure, sure. I mean, yeah. I don't know. We were kind of arguing that that's the real blank check. Oh, sure, that's true. Taxi Driver's more the guarantor. Like, Taxi Driver's not an expensive movie. Yeah. And that's a movie where he's fighting every minute to get anything through. But it's just such a crazy movie. Yeah, it is. But New York, New York is more him being, like, I want a lot of money to make something that is awesome. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, we think you can make that work. Of course, while he's making it, he's like, I think everyone's going to like it. Like, which is the crazy part. Was he doing any drugs at the time that would have clouded his judgment? Anything about that? I don't think Mark's Chris is going to mess around with that sort of stuff. And his marriage was going very well, right? You can see on screen, it has a great view of relationships. Absolutely. A fascinating movie. We almost had you do that one. I know. And I got really excited about it. And it's a tough movie. I don't love it the way that I love Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. I'm so glad I get to talk about this. But New York, New York is, like, such a rich text. I feel like I'm similar to you in that I really like wrestling with it. And the stuff in it that works, I think, is, like, exceptional. Oh, it's a fascinating, like, it's what you guys are saying. It's a, I think if you're out here being like, that is one of his best movies, I think even Marty would kind of be like, are you sure about that? Like, that movie is, movie is flawed. But you see, the soundstage opener of this leads you directly to New York, New York. He's like, give me more of those, you know, backdrops painted. I'm ready. And, you know, there's a, there's a mean boyfriend or two in that film. There is, in fact, one major mean boyfriend. One in particular, I'm thinking of. Kind of worst boyfriend in the history of movies. I can't wait for you guys to, because you got your Scorsese rankings, but ranking, like, De Niro as the guy who will ruin your life, like, at the end of Scorsese. I mean, you can throw Keitel in there, too, if you want to. Between the two of them, they have a lot. Just so much to choose from. This is a good question. Who is the, like, which De Niro is the, is the best dating option in the Scorsese canon? The Scorsese canon? I'm like, is it Irishman guy? Well, I was going to say, if I'm going to fight anyone, I want to fight that guy, because he can't even punch near you. He's got a hell of a kick. Yeah, if you're air, if you're air, you're like, oh, no! He's kicking! I might go with Johnny Boy from Mean Streets. Yeah, Johnny Boy is kind of a rascal, yeah. He's trying hard. You can only date him if you're in your early 20s. Can I date him in Casino, like, and kind of just sneak on by? Yeah. I mean, I want to do coke like Sharon Stone does. You got to get in and get out. That relationship is not good. Like, you can't stay with him. You don't think so? No. You can't stay with him for too long. Yeah, but I feel like if I'm with him in Casino, I'm just kind of like, I got a hotel room, fine. I'll leave you alone, like, whatever. I don't know. I'm not going to. If this is your version of Ben's, this movie would end with me owning an island. I'll just leave you alone. You're running the Casino. You're busy. You're stressed out. I don't think it ends well. I think bottom is Cape Fear. You got to have Cape Fear at the bottom. I want to throw out that Max- Taxi driver, though. Do you think Max Cady, like, picks up some women who he doesn't, aren't reconnected to him, who he wants to fuck with, and, like, has a good time, and then moves on? You're forgetting the Iliad and Douglas. I know, I know, but she's like, she's part of the whole scheme, though. Like, if she's, like, not connected to that, I think it's a bad sign. I think it's a real bad sign. It's possible, but I don't think you want to play those on. But it is just funny that Travis Bickle might not be bottom because of Max Cady. I think he has to not be bottom. That's the mistake. Let's also say, like, So you have to put him above Rupert. Rupert doesn't know how to fuck. Rupert does not know how to fuck. He's not going to shoot anyone, probably. Probably? What would Taxi Driver be if he's not going to shoot someone? He commits crimes. He has a gun. Are we throwing a killer to the flower moon? Like, that's not my top pick, but not the worst. This is what I'm saying. That guy ends up being, like, top three. And he commits genocide. He does. But he's got a great car. Great car. Great car. Great goggles. Driving gloves. What more do you need in a man? I think Irishman is near the top and Anna Paquin literally doesn't even want to speak to him. I think by default, that's number one. And you know what? He's always probably like, you know, I killed Jimmy Hoffa. And it's like, sure, you killed her. He fucking cares. Where's my clams? And Jimmy Hoffa, on the other hand, take him home. Yeah, well. He wouldn't dare. I cannot wait to do Irishman bits. I swear to God. He wouldn't dare. They wouldn't dare. That was my favorite thing. Is like, on Twitter, I would post him saying they wouldn't dare. Anytime it was like, Taika Waititi promised. is like a madcap satire for his name. They wouldn't dare. Taika, they wouldn't dare. Wouldn't let him do that. Where's my response when I see a headline like that? It is what it is. It's one of those, it is what it is. That movie rocks. That movie is the best. It's for cool kids. It's so good. I mean, this entire series is you guys being like, you know this movie? Like, very good. Yeah. Let's do the box office game. This film came out on December 9th, 1974. A little Christmas treat for you. Yeah, under the tree. Number one at the box office is a film that has been out for, I want to say, conservatively five months. And it's doing quite well at the box office, which is maybe speaking to some cultural issues in our country at the time. It's about a guy who something very bad happens to a member of his family. Death Wish? It's been out for five months? Yeah, and it is a box office sensation. Wow. You know, and some people might be like, well, that was terrible and I need to process this emotionally. And he's like, where's my piss? And he does it so well that other people come to him and they're like, can you solve my family shit? Sure. Why not? Death Wish, Charles Bronson in the Michael Winner film. Yes. Death Wish. Anyone ever seen it? I've seen it. I've never seen the Death Wishes. Seems like a bummer. The first one is like a pretty effective movie. Like, you definitely get it. And it's, even movies that are about how New York is like a fucking crime-soaked hellhole in the 70s, you watch them now and you're like, New York City, baby. It's great to see you're on screen. The second one is the one that's like unbelievably nasty. I believe the second one is where they're just kind of like, okay, so what worked about this is just like violence and racism, right? Yeah. I have not obviously seen like Death Wish 4, The Crackdown, which is funny to think that by four, he's like, I think it's time to start cracking down. I've been taking it too easy. Time to expand outside of my problems. What's the Simpsons joke? Now I'm going to fix it too. I'm going to fix Emmett. He's on like the Phil Silver show. That's good. All right. Number two is a disaster movie. Poseidon Adventure? Nope. Is it Towering Inferno? Keep going. Earthquake. Earthquake. There we go. And that's your 40X, right? Did you see Trumbull? What did they call it? It wasn't called Shake-O-Rama, but it was called something like that. It was called Sense-Around. Sense-Around. Then you're, there's an earthquake. Did you do the earthquake ride at Old School Universal Studios? Yeah. Yeah, I loved it. I've never seen the movie. Just the guy taking your seat. I can't remember. Just from seat to seat. I can't remember if it's that they put motors under the seats or they put speakers under the seat. But they did put things under the seats. It was speakers. I think they would like blast like basically subwoofers to make your seat vibrate a little bit. It's a little like the Dolby theaters now. Right. It was like a D-Box, sort of like a proto-D-Box. No, but closer to Dolby where you're like, the sound is so loud, the chair shakes, rather than the movie is synced up to shake in a specific way. Yeah, and it's not like built on some gimbal that's like shaking the floor or anything like that. It's gimbal-less. It's gimbal-less. It's gimbal-less. This is some gimbal-less bullshit. It's a Macy's. No gimbals. No gimbals. Number three at the box office is a sequel to a sort of Death Wish-esque kind of like shock hit. It's not Billy Jack, is it? It fucking is Billy Jack. Which one is it? It's the second. Goes to Washington? No. He's yet to go to Washington. Billy Jack did eventually go to Washington. I just didn't know that was a thing. I bet he told them to clean up their act. Drain that swamp. The return of Billy Jack? It's called The Trial of Billy Jack. Oh, The Trial. Of course he went on trial. The Trial! Oh, no, I'm so sorry. The second film is called Billy Jack, but I'm forgetting that the first film is called The Born Losers, and that actually introduces Billy Jack. But he's not the main character. No, and I think Billy Jack, the 1971 film, was the surprise, like, you know, essentially an indie film. And I think there is in a Washington, I was thinking of The Trial of Billy Jack. That's what I was remembering. No, there definitely is. There is? Is that the. Oh, no, Billy Jack goes to Washington. That's the third one. Okay, so. Fourth, yeah, whatever. He cleaned it up. And then The Return of Billy Jack which was not released. Yes, I know this. In which he takes on child pornographers, and I guess they were kind of just like, let's call it quits. Wasn't there also some death involved in that production? Maybe. Let's see what happens. I want to say it was, like, also not completed for some reason. It was not completed. 17 minutes were filmed. Oh, good. He suffered a head injury while making it, and they ran out of money. Yeah, so no one died, but, you know. So, that's number three at the box office. We've threatened to do the Billy Jacks on Patreon. Let's do it. Let's jack it up. Do those and the Deathwishes all together. Yeah. That sounds like a bummer. Anti-woke winter. Number four is a sports film. Mm-hmm. Kind of one of the original sort of sports comedies. You know, as Bad News Bears is coming around the corner. It's not, well, it's not Slapshot. No, worse than Slapshot. It's not Longest Yard. In fact, it is Burt Reynolds in the longest yard. Bloody. It's a Ruddy picture. Robert Aldrich is the longest yard you've ever seen it. Yeah, I know, but he wasn't the real artist behind it. The greatest film producer who ever lived, the bravest man. Albert S. Ruddy as portrayed by Miles Teller. Hey, I got an idea for an offer. In the Paramount Plus picture. Making the offer ever since in 2026. This is more of a problem than the offer problem. Griffin will be making offer references on his deathbed. It's the best TV show that's ever happened. It's also incredible, and it's never been more relevant, because Michael is the most awesome, offer-coded movie that has ever existed. With Miles Teller in it. Down to Miles Teller basically reprising his performance. Miles Teller as Al Ruddy as John Branca. I just saw a movie that Miles Teller is good in, and it's one of those things where you're like, right, like, he just needs, well, you know, good director. He needs a character to work with here. Like, he's not the fool that I take him for these days all the time. Well, because, like, a businessman will develop a movie about how good of a businessman he was, and then hire, like, Miles Teller and be like, where's this wing? It's crazier than that. A businessman will make a movie about the Godfather and be like, and the person who should get the most credit is me, not Francis Ford Coppola, you know, Al Pacino. It's a much smaller part, but Michael has major tones of that, of like, his story's going to continue, and Branca's going to save him. Right. The offer, of course, has the greatest screenwriting credit of all time, which is based on the experiences of Al Ruddy making The Godfather. It's not even based on a fucking book. It's based on a couple conversations. Mm-hmm. He sat down and dictated it, and that's all you need. I don't even know if he dictated it. Number five at the box office is a film that I wish featured characters like Guile, Chun-Li. Okay, is this Lady Street Fighter? No. Or is this the original Street Fighter? It is a film, simply a Japanese martial arts film, starring the great Sonny Chima? Yes. Called The Street Fighter. I believe I recently bought the Shout Factory box set of this. Sounds like something you'll get to that one in 2020. In 2029 or whatever? Yeah, sure. Let's hope so. Put it on the pile. It's just so funny when, like, the Radiance, you know, drop comes. Mm-hmm. And it's like, "This is a Yakuza film." And I'm like, "I'll just get it." That's a good one. You don't even need to tell me. And I'm like, "How many fucking Yakuza films do I have, like, you know, waiting to be watched at this point?" Yeah. It's an addiction, Katie. You're not in a Blu-ray addiction, right? No, no. Do you have a disc player? Yeah. Sure. I've got discs that I've collected over various times, like, getting them through press stuff mostly. But, no, you guys and your physical media thing, I don't. Don't include me in this. No. Okay. I wasn't looking at you. I'm just looking. Ben's normal. He doesn't have any physical media problems. No, he hates it. Well, I do. You got the vinyl. Yeah, there we go. But it's vinyl. Yeah, you're the vinyl. You already did this with the vinyl, I feel like. The cracks. Yeah. The hands. This is in the pox. Okay. Unfortunately, I am starting to get into art books, which are, you know. Well, they're really small, right? Small. Yeah. And lightweight. You just kind of throw one in your tote bag. You run around town. Yeah. Easy to store. You should get into, like, art novellas, where it's just, like, two paintings. Number six at the box office is a film I know you're very fond of, Griffin. "The Little Prince." It is a movie I love. Have you ever seen the Stanley Doan in "The Little Prince"? No, I have not. With, of course, Bob Fosse. It's one of the wildest movies ever made. And Bob Fosse plays the snake in it. And he creates Michael Jackson's persona. Oh, I mean, he did that in so many of the other dance movies. The way he dances. Yeah. But this, he's dressed, like, head-to-toe black with, like, black pants. Yeah. And, like, a jazzy glove. He's got the hat. And the white socks. I think I've seen clips of this. He, like, moonwalks. Yeah. Yeah. It's a famous, like, his dancing in it is remembered. Yeah. I think I have seen that. If nothing else is remembered. Gene Wilder plays the fox. He would make my best supporting actor ballot this year. He's un-fucking-believable in that movie. I love how long Stanley Doan's career was. That guy was making movies for decades. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Do Donan one of these days. Come on, guys. That's a lot of movies. Yeah. Maybe there's a way to sort of hack it. I don't know. Number seven is one of my favorite films of all time, The Taking of Pelham 1, 2, 3. Yeah. Taking to New York. Number eight is Airport 1975, which is, what is that? The second one? Wait. So it came out in '74, but it's called Airport 1975. Yeah. Well, they're getting ready for the excitement of tomorrow. Like new car models. Blues Brothers 2000 came out in 1998. Obviously the comp. Yeah. Obviously. Which is Charlton Heston, Karen Black, George Kennedy. Whatever. Yeah. So a million people are in that. Number nine, a reissue, Cabaret. We love it. They can't. It's a '72 film. That's what? Like two years after it? But you know, there's no fucking DVDs back then. Yeah. If a movie was a hit at that scale, they would re-release it every year. You know what I would love to see in theaters right this second? Cabaret. Cabaret. Sounds great. Mm-hmm. Number five, number 10 is a movie called Law & Disorder. I have to look it up. I don't know this film. There's so many like vigilantes. Carol O'Connor, Ernest Borgnine. Oh, I know. And you're telling me there's Law & Disorder? You're telling me their shirts are tucked in properly, right? Nothing rumpled, sleeves all the way down. I'm feeling a little anxious about this one let me run the plot here by you in the crime infested New York City of the 70s two residents and friends played by Carol O'Connor and Ernest Borgnine so you know grumpy barrel shaped white guys decide to join the auxiliary wing of the New York City Police Department to help take back their neighborhood from criminals do you think they do that in a responsible way Vincent Canby called it a gentle oh okay okay sometimes disruptively funny movie wow this is all important practice for Taxi Driver you guys need to watch all movies before doing that episode maybe this is more just a straightforward comedy maybe Albert Finney is an uncredited producer on it what the fuck is this movie sure I'll produce it for you I didn't know uncredited producers was a thing because when Finney produced he would talk like his character Nero Brockovich it's one of Angelo Badalamenti's first credits but he did it under the name Andy Badale he was trying to pass or maybe Andy Badale and then they tried to give him some espresso and he went shit and they were like oh fuck this guy's Italian he's Italian it's just crazy that one of the Simpsons writers went in the fucking submersible before it blew up yes yes it is that's all would you ever go into submersible uh uh no nor I I'm going to put you on that one and it is no all right uh Ben is sending us ad copy and I gotta go pick up my daughter so I think we should bring Ben and I have to go see Toy Story 5 again oh Ben's smiling I signed up for it okay I liked it a lot no I liked it too what Ben said to me was I really want to see that again before wow it was rare for me it was again with my daughter I will be seeing it with my children probably on Sunday as well but they are I don't think I've told you this Griffin that like they didn't think they were into it because like they don't have a lot of Toy Story knowledge it's not like one of our movies and then we saw the trailer before Hoppers or something like that and they're both like oh yeah absolutely that trailer nailed it for them I truly wonder what my daughter's gonna make of it but she's more a fan of the other films anecdotally I mean she loves the other films and she loves Jesse I think that'll be great for her it is but I just I truly wonder if the message will resonate with her at all because it's a little over her head at this age I would say but anecdotally I've witnessed a couple examples of kids who do not previously like Toy Story being interested in this one and or loving this one it certainly looks like it's gonna make a lot of money the pump feels very primed I was so surprised at it because like Charlie again like he's 10 like we saw Disclosure Day like he's ready for the Odyssey but like Toy Story it's you know it works my 10 year old little cousin who always loves to say that he hates the Toy Story movies a thing that's really challenging me testing the foulest mouth I've ever seen he's rebelling against you I'm so sorry he did say to me when does Toy Story 5 come out I can't wait to see that hmm we gotta take George and Charlie to the movies together someday that's the dream that's interesting mm-hmm they might they might get along okay all right okay we're gonna make it happen someday we're gonna make it happen right Katie thank you so much for being here thank you guys welcome on I check with Griffin and David find my way back in whenever you'll have me on to your blankies was that the nickname we gave you last time I think so yeah because Emily is the mother and I think I get to be the auntie so I will gladly take that role prestige junkie yeah prestige junkie at the ankler me and Chris Rosen talking about award stuff and I have guests on including you guys whenever the time comes and I didn't avatar episode that people were really normal about that was one of those social clips that like I was like why am I still getting notifications about this five months later it was so crazy it was insane please get your next hottest take ready and come on back on I will well Big Jim's got to announce another avatar movie but I'll think of something else oh and I have to say fighting in the war room because David never mentions it and no someone's got to do it we try to do it yes not that long ago we never have guests like you're like you and John Ratzenberger like the only two guests have ever come on that was like 15 years ago I have guessed it on fighting in the war many times I don't know about many like it's usually too lazy for it but yeah Ben came on and talked about slow Christmas it was a great time yeah you came on one time talked about the tick I think I'm also I'm also on the iconic episode I think Griffin is too where yeah David is getting married and we're all together oh yeah oh oh on the porch that was a porch that was a porch record you're right it looks wetting I have a picture of you guys recording that I'm gonna I'm gonna find that's a good picture yeah we did a lot of like wedding episodes because we're all getting married because they just had their 10th anniversary right uh no it'll be it'll be next year because Charlie was a baby I had just left New York and I drove back up with that wedding so it's it's in you're right you're right it was my wife it's no no 17 17 your anniversary is my wife's birthday and she was turning 29 I'm finding this picture of you two sitting on the porch and yakking yeah that's what that's what we did back in back then that's what we did back then and it's very different from what we're doing right now yakking in a room indoors with a porch oh my god you guys are so cute I'm sitting this picture I don't want to see this I'm gonna have a fucking existential crisis looking at this picture try having a 10 year old where you're like you were just a baby weren't you now all the listeners can share in it anyone who's listening to Titanic episode well a decade of dreams a decade of dreams of Charlie you'll be back oh yeah yeah I'm back you can't get rid of me you're the best Charlie will be back oh my god I would love especially because you're not doing video he does not want to be like on video anything but coming and talking to a microphone I think he could do it yeah let's come yeah come back to his family trip yeah he's got to do it we're coming New York City zone thank you all for listening please remember to rate review and subscribe tune in next week for taxi driver with Tracy let's we apologize in advance the episodes a little short we were facing a couple hard outs the longest episode we've ever done I fortunately by four hours yeah luckily I murder everyone in the room when it's done so yeah it's admissible in court this episode just in my memory as long as it was a long very good episode yes I think so yeah we were pretty locked in with all Tracy yeah that's part of why it's stressful it's like we're really trying to like be you know present and effective with mr. Tracy let's he also was like I'm going for it yeah he's long how long is the record and I was like don't nobody tell him well I feel like when you have your friends come in and try to break the record you can be like don't shut up you're not doing it but when it's Tracy let's even though he is your friend he's Tracy let's you kind of have to let the man cook he threw the Pulitzer down on the table he started cooking over on the patreon recently we just put out Resident Evil apocalypse it's it's the end of the Resident Evil franchise on the wait no there for more got this photo Jesus Christ look at these babies I was better now you can sign up for that as well as other bonus content over at patreon.com slash blank check do I look better now I'm gonna say yeah I think you actually might yes I think I might I'm looking at a picture people figure out how to dress better I look pretty good I need to tell myself this yeah and as always kiss my grits what was I gonna say about Marshall Lucas stained-glass I don't know something funny yeah it would have been really good imagine the funniest thing blank check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims our executive producer is me Ben Hossley our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon this show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy research by JJ Birch our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell artwork by Joe Bowen Ali Moss and Pat Reynolds our production assistant is Minik special thanks to David Cho Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help head over to blank checkpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy join our Patreon blank check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes follow us on social at blank check pod subscribe to our weekly newsletter checkbook on substack this podcast is created and produced by blank check Productions