Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore with Katey Rich

A podcast for everyone who is ever dreamed of a second chance. The marketing on this movie was insane. I'm going to, I'm going to put forward that it's insane that the poster for this movie is just the end of the movie, person and Christopherson smiling. I don't want to see that. I think it worked because people are like, well, I'd like to see that. I'd like to, I'd like Chris Christopherson to take me in his loving arms. You like Ellen Berson, like his beard. We all want that. Would you argue that's not really what the movie is, but what would you say the movie is is just like her crying, like you don't want to, yeah, that's not going to go on a poster. I think it's funny. This is like, you know, it's Ellen Berson's Oscar-winning performance. I would say it's an element. It's a strong element of the movie. No one's walking out of there being like, well, there was no Christopherson hugging in that film. I feel cheated. Like it's in there. But I think this movie is more than anything about a woman stuck in cycles. And this movie poster presents it as if, like, one door closed and another one opened. It is. Absolutely open. Absolutely. The door creaks open and she's like, I think it's safe to walk through this door. Exactly. I mean, throwing out the idea that a movie about a woman is being sold with a man on the poster. Like, who that's never been done before? No. And him being above the title is kind of nuts. It's Ellen Berson. And Chris Christopherson being, I mean, in what, this is two years, no, where are stores born relative to this after this, after this, after this is this is the early him acting. We can. Okay. But he's already very famous. But he's very famous. You know, he's a, he's someone you want, you know, to show off because it's like a game. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We got this guy. God. Oh, he wrote that song. He did. Damn. Yeah. I'm not a Chris Christopherson guy. I have to admit. You're a big whistler guy though, right? It's the character. He plays in blade blades assistant. Oh, right. Yeah. You got to go get those vampires. First lady. I love vampires. I've been asking me if I like Whistlin, well, or like the whistler's mother, the painting. Oh. Oh. Oh. This just got 100% jaunt here. I'll say I like Whistlin, which is the verb I used for watching blade movies. Right. I'm going to have a, is he in Trinity, see him the third one? He is, but he dies for the second time I want to say rip because he dies in the first one, the second one, he's back alive and they don't explain it. The third one, they kill him for good, but then whistler's daughter shows up. Right. Whistler's daughter is Jessica B.O. Right. Yeah. Whenever I have a daughter, I hope she looks like Jessica B.O. from heaven to heaven. Right. And then Planet of the Apes, a cello, Planet of the Apes, parenthetical 2001, a Stella Warren is his daughter. Oh, she's my daughter. I'm a human. I hope these Apes don't kill me. Damn Apes. You can make the check out to its K-R-I-S. We can't do our favorite bit on that movie because it's too early, but the idea that you can see the actor doing direct deposit on their phone, on camera. Uh, yep, Chris, Chris Stofferson, the handsome boy is here. What a good looking guy. The handsome boy is the nickname. He's a man, David. Yeah. And the boy in this movie has the foulest mouth he's ever heard. That's a brutal thing coming from Chris Christofferson. Yeah. You imagine foulest mouth I've ever heard. Right. Probably met a couple, uh, saucy fellas, spending all that time on the ranch. You know, you're not talking to enough people and not, uh, not used to it. I just think it's funny that this movie was sold as a second chance around Come and then spawned a non-9 season workplace sitcom. And you watch it and you're like, it's just like a pretty tender, small character study about a sad woman. But the minute that you start with the Mel's diner sequence, you're like, oh, I would spend nine seasons here. Perfect sense. It emerged fully formed as the setting for a show that you would watch. If you showed someone the first five minutes of this movie, so the crazy pro, uh, right, and maybe just a couple minutes or her with a husband, she doesn't really like that much. And you were like, no, he paused. Now what if I told you this turned into a hit, you'd be like, what part of it turned into it? But 100 episodes end a spin on it. If you show someone the last half of the movie, they would be like, oh, sure. Ben, Ben looks befuddled, producer Ben looks befuddled. There was a wildly successful sitcom that ran for nearly a decade called Alice's Restaurant that was based on this movie that was a workplace diner sitcom. But ticker. It was just called Alice. Is that really? Yeah. I think it was. Is that Alice's restaurant is a play, right? Is it? No. It's the Woody Guthrie song. Oh, that's a lot of guthrie. Yeah. Sorry. I knew I was getting confused. It was the longest running, uh, sitcoms of starring a woman until Roseanne and ran for nine seasons. Linda Laven, the Great Linda. And I would say you it was, I mean, yeah, it was very successful. It's spent a good half of its time on the air being like a top 10 show. And here's what's crazy. Diane Laven, in this movie plays flow, right? A different actress plays flow on the sitcom. Everyone is different except for one person. A Vick Tayback. Yeah. Yes. The cook is the same actor, right? But everyone else is different because it was, you know, you're a movie actor. You don't go down to TV. The show is so successful. They spin off flow into her own show and then to replace flow in the dynamic, they hire Diane Laven to play a new waitress. That's how big the show was, but at first, she's like, I'm not doing a sitcom of the movie I was in. And then five years later, she was like, I would gladly join the cast and I'd love to it. In fact, where can I sign them? But it's just like, what if it's just this fun, diner, minus any abusive relationships? Have you guys ever watched Alice? I thought about doing it for this and I never have. I know Kiss My Grits, which is the catchphrase, which, that's what they would say, doesn't say in the movie, right? She's talking about Grits. They get close. She's got plenty of, like, fun colorful English. That was, you know, poly holiday on the show. Okay. So we started with this show. Did you do with Grits? Should I hug them? Should I gently caress them? Even it was just telling us to kiss Morning Grits. He was telling us to kiss Morning Grits. Evening Grits also saw, I mean, if you go to Waffle House, it's open 24 hours. You can have Grits any time a day. What's your Waffle House order? 'Cause he lives in Waffle House. He's got his brother in covered. Also, the name of a hoody in the blowfish show. You know, where I owned it on CD. Why did that wear my hoody in the blowfish shirt that I recently made out of my pair. Why haven't you bought me one? You know what? Google.com, hoody in the blowfish shirt. Alex Ross Perry is rubbing his hands together right now at this group of people. Who don't even know what he's going to do with this? That was what he was saying. He's going to bully me. All right. I limped in Britain where hoody in the blowfish, much like, sort of, Matchbox 20, Dave Matthews band, some of these, like, American bands, all nighted. Come on. No, it's just one of those, like, completely failed to trans. Right. Right. Right. You know, they were, you know, they were brought over. It's like, this is one of the hottest bands in America. You know, they're up and just went like double diamond and Britain was like, I think we're okay. It's just like how we don't get Robbie Williams. Sure. Like, it just never ended here. It's just never made it over. But I was gifted, cracked rear view when I was 10 years old and I gave it a spin on the old disc man. Southern frat rock, not translating, does make sense to me. The whole thing with hoody in the blowfish and I've done this rant before is like, you have. Oh, yeah. I think that Darius Ruckers voice is incredible. Like that's, it's the thing where you listen to it, you're like, he fucking rocks and I always become a massive solo country. And then he had his electric career and you're kind of like, God bless him because, you know, anytime you listen to hoody in the blowfish, you're like, all of this is pretty ordinary sounding except who the, who do you, who do you, I feel so bad for him. I know his name's not hoody, but that's, that's the thing that it's, it's the blondie problem. He could never come out from under being hoody. If you guys ever saw, of course, the Jerry McGuire gag, no, I'm not hoody, you know, as people have listened to the show before, no, I grew up in South Carolina. I don't live there now. But so if you drive into South Carolina from Charlotte, there's a like a visitors area there. And there is a video, like a South Carolina tourism video, the Darius record made, the star of it. It's like, hey, walk in my state. I love it here. Yeah. If he wanted to run for governor, South Carolina, he would win. He would win. Darius record hoody. Yeah. But you just have to be hoody. No, he is, he is like a treasure. So he is doing just fine. You know, I agree, the man is a treasure. Let's give him treasure. I'm so glad I got it here. A treasure. He's treasure. Yeah. He's treasure. It is funny to imagine putting him in the trunk. He's treasure. It's funny to imagine he could run, probably win with the name Darius record on the ballot. Just going, I love America. I can't do his voice. I can't do it. He won. Everyone would be like, well, governor hoody, governor hoody. Yeah. It didn't matter. He wouldn't be fine with it. He'd just have to accept it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not liking any of their merch. Could be in the blowfish. You're thinking about buying something. I just wanted to have a thought. But I'm not sure. The shirt I have is from the 1995 tour that I went to is my first ever concert. And it's, it has, they don't look like you on the back. If you go on eBay, it's on there. That's good. They have the, there's the friends episode that's about one of the very few friends episode that tried to touch on like sort of matters of like class and money. Like, usually friends didn't really touch this stuff. And it's like, ah, they all live in giant apartments and like, don't worry about it. This is the one that Mike lead guest directed. Exactly. It's the only one that acknowledges that three of the friends are kind of like make good money and three don't. And it's about that. And like it's a hoody in the bluefish concert. Let's break this down. Do you remember who the three Ross makes good money, Ross's Ross. Monica makes good money. Chandler and Monica are the like, quote unquote, richer. And then like Joey Phoebe and Rachel are the, but it might be Rachel is, I can't remember where it is. Because eventually Rachel gets the faster job, but she doesn't always comes from money. Yes, but of course she gets, she has to cut up all her credit cards. Right. Because she didn't marry the debt. Monica and Ross come from money too. They all grew up in the same like concert culture. They're coded. They're coded as like suburban, like, you know, like they're fine or whatever. But, but it's sort of just like, it's saying like, you know, like Ross, I think it might be right. I can't. But it's like, yeah, Ross, you guys have white collar jobs. They make money, bubble and like, Joey, he's a struggling actor. Phoebe, Lord knows how she's springing in the rent together. She does smelly cat. Like what? What is Phoebe's job, right? You know, and the crucial thing is that they, the rich ones get to go to a hoodie and the bowfish constantly. And it's like, one of the things where it's like, no grander experience in seeing who he and his blow. David, I think I found the right piece of hoodie merch. You I just texted it to you. It belonged to me. I think you would rock the shit out of this and Ben is someone into fashion. I want your advice. Okay. I just think. I can't see. I'm going to. I'm going to show it to you. All right. Yeah. It's a char-fuel-hander-bucket hat. On one side it says the group therapy tour. Okay. And I don't know either of those orders. I assume there's this, there's this kind of tie-dye load. No, it's a little mirror can fly. Beauty in the blue fish. I cannot see Sims where Sims would rock this. I'm not a huge bucket hat guy. Yeah. I'm not usually too fat. They're fat. You didn't hear they're back. They're always, you know, threatening right. David, you said you're not a huge bucket hat guy. But did you know that this one has an adjustable drawstring attached and the sizes run small? Thank God. Just in case I need it to especially hug the old noggin. Yes. I can't imagine how with the drawstring. You can get it. I got to get it. A blow-in-home candle. Is your. You're on like the hoodie like this? No, that's great for an audio medium. I'm just trying to see what it now. Or is it like does it look like this? Like, you know, the crack for your. No, it's not even that one. Okay. All right. We're hunting. I know. This one is a hundred bucks on eBay because it's a tour shirt from like 95. Like, you know, like, yeah, going down many very good. Yeah, right. The one I found in my parents' house was from 99, a very underappreciated tour. And I was like, should I just sell this thing and send my kids to college? It was not worth quite that much. I'm just thinking on to it. Remember all that concern that when the year 2000 hit, a hoodie in the blowfish, we're going to go to that back down to zero that they were going to crash. We thought we were going to lose that. Yeah. That's why it's all the month tour in 1999, obviously. Why two age? And people tuned in. They hit play on their little pod catcher going, oh, I'll just live here anymore with Katie red show. I'm blank check. We love it. Definitely a 10-minute hoodie run kick in this one off, right? People are disappointed only because they were certain it was going to open with 10 minutes of Becker. Oh, now Becker's done. What were you going to say? I like to think I bring less chaos to this podcast than your average guest. Like I tried to try to. But then I just started with you. I'm sorry because you and I and you and Griffin, we have to talk about. And we have kind of shared brain waves about kind of like reference point. Right. This sort of entertainment weekly era of being a teen who loves movies. And I don't know. I just feel like we got a lot of roads we can go down. Oh, well, you're ready. Let's go down some road. And you know, who do you sang about those roads in his song? I wish I could remember. I was like, if only I could make a lot of detail, hooting the blowfish, which is which I don't know that I can't. I texted you the shirt that I had. Oh, here we go. You can now see it. It is the exact shirt. I did buy this one off eBay. Now have two hoody shirts. And this is the one that I got at the tour in 1995. God bless. Wait, so you bought you bought a shirt on here? Oh, yeah. Last summer, like around my birthday, I was like, you know what I'm giving myself is who the blowfish shirt for. That's why we're pals. Oh, it's a good one. It's green and blue. I think I'm good. But I got texted to you. You'll drop down many on this and hit and buy it. Yes. All right. I'm texting it to Ben also. So now everyone loves it when we text each other on the microphone. There you go. There you go. Oh, you punish me. I remember that one. David. I've got the voice of a hoody. Oh, my god. I'm a terrible singer. I'm not based on that. Well, I'll leave it there then. I'll stay in on the high. I was running from an angel. What was the only one to be with you? That was the one that people were basically like, this band needs to be legally like this part from music. The Miami dolphins were in that music video because it was just like fucking, you know, MTV played it like four billion times a day. MTV was like, wait, there's a Rootsie rock band with a black guy like this checks all our boxes. Fucking blank at the airway. It's like, we got to get this guy everywhere. Maybe we cut that out. I should have worn it. It's a picture. I just bought it. All right. It's going to meet. We're linking the show notes so everybody can go. We're going to write out all the eBay stores of these hoodie shirts. Great. It's very funny. The Alice doesn't live here anymore. Or the Alice sitcom, Wikipedia, has a section of differences between the film and television series. And it's like a various. That's the thing. It's all stuff like Alice has made a name was Graham. Oh, mission series. Alice has made a name with spy vac. And you're like, film, sad sitcom doesn't touch dark stuff. Like, that's what they're not saying. They're into like very granular details. Did you go through the guest stars? This is one of those sitcoms. It was a hot show, but Jaylen was on it. Liberty's would appear. He's something. He's going to appear as themselves. So great. As a customer. George Burns goes like, how much fatuna. He is set in Arizona. Like, it's still like, it's not like they like Alice moved to a diner in Hollywood. Whatever. But people are just passing on through, I guess. It's a funny thing because like, it was a hit show, but you can tell by its kind of lack of Emmy gnomes that it was never taken very seriously. Like, Lavon got a grand total of one nom. Like the legend. She's a legend. Yeah. She's fast. She's fucking, of course, she's Seth Cohen's grandma on the OC. And that was her only ever, I mean, nom, which is rude to Lavon. She and Chris Chris office in both past, um, 20, 20, yeah. David, sorry. I told you not to do that. I just for the right. They asked it was kind of like a weird kid. I like, I know, but I said, why you? You just don't need to meddle in their business. So Chris Chris office and died at the grand old age of 86. Yeah. And I feel like Linda Lavon also lived a very long time. She linda Lavon was 87, 87, yeah. At the time we're recording this, Ellen Berson, 93 still working. I will say about Lavon. Like, I don't look at Ellen Berson and go like, Ellen and Lavon to TV version. It's a totally different type of character. There's also a crazy thing is that Ellen Berson later does a sitcom in the 80s. She Ellen Berson show was a good, uh, fucking riot. I think it was just like a family sitcom, but that's another person where I don't go like, obviously, let's get her on a multi cam. You know, I think it was one of those things where it's like, if you're someone like Ellen Berson, where it's like, you are a tremendous actress. You're an Oscar winner and you've been in huge movies like the exorcist, but you're never going to be treated like a movie star by Hollywood because it's a sexist industry and you're a little older and you're more of like a great actor than you are like a theater and love teaching and maybe just wanted the consistent and then like the call just comes along and like, hey, do you want the consistent work and paycheck? One of these network shows, right? She only did it. It only aired 13 episodes. Yeah. Megan Mulali was her daughter. Elaine Stritch was also on it. I think Elaine Stritch played her mom or no, played her mom seven year eight. Yes. Her eighties are a lot of movies. I've never heard of just going through her credit. It's insane because like Ellen Berson is a Hall of Famer, right? She's a legend. There's no question. I think she's one of the best green actors. I mean, she's most alleged. She told you to shut the fuck up that one time. That's not what she said. And you know, that's not what she said. She said, try silent. Correct. And you got to give credit. It's actually way better than her telling you to shut the fuck up. That's why it needs to be correct. Nothing better. Nothing better. I think she's one of the greatest actors of all time. But she no doubt has, as Katie saying, when you look at her filmography, like just a bunch of stuff where you're like, why aren't earth is that? What happens to women who are stars of their movies? What are you going to do with them? But then also two additional Oscar nominations in the 80s. Like we're saying like, well, that's a weird decade for her. Right. So what would her has dying young? Did she go no resurrection in 1980? Yeah. And then I guess same time next year is 78s. Right? Yes, she did. Like she got a bunch of Oscar Noms and she won one. Well, she's in twice in a lifetime. The movie The Amy Madigan got her nomination for, which I had never heard of until the first. Yes. But I remember when she got her, you know, nominated for Requiem for a dream, it was that classic Oscar thing of like them being like, and where have you been? And she's like, I've been here. They're so good in the movie. Were you played a crazy drug addict? And she's like, okay, well, I've been in other stuff too. I do think that led to a then kind of elder Revotsman. She's, she's now a legendary immediate instant gravitas. Great actor. We stand and you know, today we discuss on a podcast The Gryffinds about to introduce the film that won her an Oscar. Yes, which unfortunately, in my opinion, steals the Oscar for what might be the greatest screen performance of all time. Oh, well, then we can, oh, is it a, is it a Gene Rowlands from Rio Rowlands? The woman under the influence is this year, and it's a famous story. Yeah, I mean, obviously that's a fucking great performance. And Ellen Berson wins, and Martin Spurses he goes up to Casavetes and Rollins at the Oscars, like near crying, and he's like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I make this fucking thing. I mean, it's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and like this is also among the great actress performances, like I think she's incredible. It's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. I just, she's amazing. I would have given her the Oscar for one of the two previous nominations. For like the excerpts. But this is a fascinating ripple effect. Last picture show. I think she's amazing in last picture show. I obviously love the Chloris leechman win, but if I, I think I had a ballot for 72, I would pick Burstin. Well, let me now look, while I pull up some Oscar pages so we can relitigate this for a second with Griffin and David. I am Griffin. I'm David. We're about to relitigate some Oscars, but not as much as we will in next week's episode. This is a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks and make whatever crazy passion projects. They want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. Sometimes they do a gig for hire to prove that they can do the diverse little lack of limitations, and it ends up being a bit of a guarantor because it wins the love actor makes a money. Oh, yeah. It makes a TV show. And launches the second. It becomes a more media-friendly money from Alice. No. No. No. No. Good. It's successful. You can tell who has good teams by who gets baked into deals like that, because there are people who just cash checks forever. I mean, this is the match story that I love is that Robert Altman had no stake in the match. He had no upside from the film's box office success because they didn't want to hire him that he took the DGA minimum and waived any participation. It also meant he waived any participation in ancillary things that would go on later. His son, who was kind of a burn out, and he wanted his kids to work on the movie. He was like, can you write a song for the dentist? His son writes suicide as painless, gets paid every time any episode of mash airs anywhere in the world. And he liked it. That is good. He did his son for that. Oh, okay. That's less good. I thought he'd be proud of him. I don't think so. Okay. I don't think so. What's there? This is a mini series on the thumbs of Martin Scorsese. It is called podcast fellas. That's right. Wow. No problem. It's my first time hearing this. I thought it looked to you. I wanted to see your response. It's a short list of options you had too. Like, does not have a lot of title. I thought it was a long way. Does he pass to you or anymore? That's what we should have called. I'm not knocking at my cat. Has this castness since the bed. Yeah. That one's tough. That's saying it was my best. The pot of in a, you know, cast the pot of cast street. There is a scene there. Yeah. Yeah. Pods of Newcast. But no, it's called podcast fellas because that's what we are. We're a couple podcast fellas and today and sometimes girls. We have a pod lady with us joining us as we love to say kind of the first blank check guest ever. It's very important. Yes. Very important. Helps codify the box office game. That's right. Yeah. And also importantly, mother of still record holder, youngest guest ever on the show almost baby child. Yeah. Is the, are the listeners ready for the age of that baby from the Titanic episode? Because it's important to talking about this movie too, which is that Charlie Charlie's about to turn 10. He's about to turn 10. As when this episode is out. I assume he will have already turned 10 because it's very soon when he was on pop. He was baby. He was three months old. Now he's a little man. So crazy. He brought a three month old baby. It's completely crazy. It really happened now. That baby. None of us knew anything about babies is the fact that I did that. Katie, to remind you, because we were trying to remember this on the set, your last episode with us was intolerable. Yes. When I stepped back in the studio, I was like, Oh, yes. Now I remember us talking. You were like, remember the tides, but I was like, no, but you've done something since that. You couldn't remember. Yes. Okay. This is also your 10th. No. No. So we're going to get my decade of dreams, Charlie's, are we counting Titanic as two or one counting him as one. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the kill bill question. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. This is your true 10th episode because Titanic doesn't count. So congratulations. Wow. Now let's relitigate these Oscars. All right. So her first nomination, as you put out pointed out, was for the last picture show. She lost to her co-star, chlorous leechment. Now they're both great on the movie. They are. The first and my favorite performance in that film period, but that was like, she was like brand new. I guess they were all. That was the long back then. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other, I would say big nominee there is a Margaret and Colonel knowledge, which is a great performance. And I'll just say it. And Margaret, kind of a looker. You've also got Barbara Harris in who is Harry Kalerman and why is he saying those terrible things about me? An Ulux Barred film I've never seen, but obviously has my iconic title. Incredible title. Margaret Layton in The Go Between, which is a masterpiece and she's very good, but like, I would say with them, with there, it's kind of like, right, pick. And like with chlorous, it's just kind of like, that's her Oscar, man. She doesn't, you know, she doesn't have too many more swings at the movies award out. Sure. You know, whatever. Okay. So then she loses for the exorcist to Glenda Jackson for a touch of class. Now we respect Glenda Jackson. I've never seen that film. I love her, you know, for women and loves an amazing movie. She had won three years previously. She had. It's a surprising, I think four, but you know, like surprising second win for her. And I think the reason she won was it was a bit of a weird year. Like, it's Elimbrerson and the exorcist who's amazing in the exorcist. He's a mild stretch as a lead. Yeah. I would agree. She sort of counts, but like, she's not really in the back half of the movie, obviously. And like, she's not the thing you come out of the exorcist. No, she's pretty. Yeah. It's a little broker damn tailbone. It's a little like Michael B. Jordan center's minus the skill piece of the twins thing. Right where you're like, there's such a centering force in this film, which was also the highest grossing film of his hair. It was a hit. And she's great in it. Yeah. And then you got wait, is the devil the lead? Why would see? Like, Glenda Blair and they put Linda Blair in supporting in that classic. But I mean, like, she's the one, like, the movies happen to her. And then you got Marcia Mason, the great Marcia Mason in Cinderella Liberty, the James com movie, Margaret, I've never seen it. We got Barbara Streisand in the way we were. We stand. Yeah. Yeah. We stand. Yeah. Sure. I think that movie is a little silly. It's silly, but I think that's an excellent movie star performance. Sure. Yes. I agree. And then you've got Joanne Woodward in summer wishes, winter dreams. I've never seen that one. Not a movie I have seen. No, this is a lot. I agree. Maybe we could sneak it over to Alan. It is astounding to go through these and realize how rarely the best actress nominees were from best pictures. Oh, yeah. When you get a. The 1950s. Yeah. It's a little better now with the 10 noms, you know, or whatever. But I bet you even now if we didn't have the 10 noms, it would remain a bit of a ghetto. Oh, definitely. There are so many movies that do not exist outside of one lead actress nomination for a movie star. Is it is the exorcist getting the horror, sobbery with the two? Yeah. Because it did win two Oscars. Yeah. But it was. Yeah. It was the noms were the reward a little bit of kind of like, well, it win, you know, you it won. Best moment. Best P.P. Now, there's actually not a ton of P.P. in the exercise. I say most P.P. I said best P.P. You're notable. I thought the category was just best goo. I mean. Oh, yeah. It was like the best score of musical comedy drama thing. It most years, it's best goo. This is one of those years where they split it into best vomit and best P.P.P. There's too much to choose from. And then exorcist winning both made them think, maybe let's make it one category again. It won best adapted screenplay and best sound. It, you know, and you're like, how did it lose? It was a hit ball. It's like it lost to the sting, which was just also a phenomenal. Oh, so right. What they were two of the 10 highest grossing movies that they were just both movies that had like played for a billion years. I mean, it's, it's an insane five. It's the sting, the exorcist and American graffiti. So three just like critically acclaimed powerhouse blockbuster out of nowhere movies and out of nowhere in different ways. Three of the most possible movies of all time. People like this is like, people are going to love it. Exorcist obviously. And then the other two nominees are a touch of class, which they, they really went for the kind of like British comedy back, but they love to sneak those in. Sure. And then Ingmar Bergman's Christ Whispers. They loved Bergman. They gave him proper respect. Well, he was at his, right, they love him in the, in the final favors of his career. They would, they would, they would roll out the carpet for him and I assume he would not attend. I don't actually know. But have a feeling you didn't really show up to a lot of those ceremonies or he was a party animal. Yeah. Maybe he was there being like, I love this show being hosted by Bert Reynolds, Diana Ross, John Houston and David Niven. Is that the one where there's the speaker? And Niven goes like, he's got a tiny dick. That's the dream team. Those four people. We always want to see them. The big four. The big four. Just like whenever I see Diana Ross, I'm like, where's John Houston or her, her counterpart? You look naked without David Niven by your side. That is so funny that it's like, oh no, this is the year before Chinatown. So we're not in John Houston and that mode. Correct. Yeah. Chinatown is the year after. So you're like director first and foremost menacing character actor secondly Right, but before his most notable film role, but he has very great estate. MC. Yes. Third MC, then like the biggest pop star in a feat British man, and then who's the fourth again? Burr Reynolds. Burr Reynolds. Burr Reynolds, you know, he's just the dude. I'm from a leading man. He's right at me. Yeah. Yeah. He went on stage, presumably. When you, if you think about a world where Ellen Berson never wins Noscow, then you're okay. Well, then maybe did she win for Requiem? Does she win for Requiem as a makeup, but it's the swankier, right? No. It's the Julia Robertsy. Ooh. And that was just a tough train to stop. Nor should it. No, you don't, you don't take that away. I agree. Would you both agree with the idea that she probably came in second, Ellen Berson? I remember that. Yeah. I think the fit of a thing, because Ellen Berson hadn't accepted her own award of wouldn't it be nice for her to give us speech that. Mm-hmm. Although, I will say whenever anyone trots out that argument, I'm like, we're splitting hairs. Absolutely. Come on. She won, but she didn't say a thing. You didn't get to give us speech. I'm like, okay. I mean, Laura Lennie was the critic fave that year, but I could see the argument for Ellen Berson was me. I also feel like back then, critic faves didn't get you as far at the Oscar. Totally. That was a real nomination as the win. Of course it was. Yeah. Enjoy your Saturday at the Spirit Tag. I can tell you the best actress musical or comedy that year was the not Oscar-nominated Renée Zellberger for Nurse Betty. Oh, yeah. But that there were, but there's the only overlap there was Julia de Binoche was nominated for Schokla. Yeah. Are we under the name of the Schokla law? The movie is so funny. They have Schokla fever back then. She's like, let me make some honey. I did watch Schokla for the first time, like in the last five years, and it does kind of fucking well. It's still terrible. One of those things where if you remove any, like, what did it get? What did it steal nominations from? Can you just watch it as its own thing? It is delightful. I mean, I think I made this joke possibly, but Alfa Molina plays snidely whiplash even more than the time he literally played snidely, but I made that joke, but it's, it's very true. He shows up without my stash and it's like, where's all these Schokla laughs? Because he's let's go in flash dance, right? I mean, footloos. Like, let's just like the town has to band dancing. Yeah. Million is just like, no, chocolate. The mustache is. I band it from these walls. It's so thin and so long. It's making women talk back to their husbands. Like, such a sniveling little fuck with a cape. It's amazing. I forgot he has a cape. Alice doesn't live here anymore. Yes. Is that the movie you're here to talk about? Are you trying to tell me something about where Alice is? It's a 1974 American romantic comedy drama film, according to Wikipedia. I guess that's what I'd call it. I would call it a drama. I call it a character. A sort of right. A light or, you know, a quiet drama directed by Martin Scorsese, written by Robert Getchel, who is quite a career. I want to go on this side. Goes on to write a bound for glory and, you know, well, that makes sense. You're like, right. It's a very, very grounded, although he's one of four. I will say credited screenwriters on Mommy Dearest, so I guess that's not all on him. Uh, then he made the Patsy climb by a pick sweet dreams with Jessica Lang. He wrote that. He wrote, uh, Bette Midler movie called Stella. I don't really know that. That's a Stella Dallas remake. Oh, fuck it is. Wow. This is like genuinely a fascinating career. He got points on the Alice sitcom for creating the character. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. If you're the writer, you're going to get a point. But then he wrote, okay, but come on. No return. The Lefemniki. And then he does this voice life and the client. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a, you know, he was a work. Work guy. Of course. We call him a work guy. Yes. Uh, the film, uh, yeah, was, uh, you know, a 1974 Christmas release that got good reviews, made money. One and Oscar was a solid notchance course as he's career. I feel as often, obviously, underdiscussed. It's very recently getting a criterion disc. I believe Marie has gotten her hands on it today and is delivering it to the office tomorrow. One day late for me to have watched this last criterion disc, not Marie's fault. We're in fact getting it early, um, but, but was hoping it would time out better. But yes, it, it has only been on DVD for the last, uh, 15, I rented it on the old iTunes. They looked all right. The tunes for the eyes. They looked sorry. Yes. And it's a film we should discuss. And with us is, have we, have we introduced Kate? Yeah. Katey Rich, who, I think, I think of you as a fairly, like, you discovered this movie back when you did the Scorsese screen draft. Yeah. I didn't want to come on here and promote someone else's podcast. Oh, please go ahead. This is my podcast, but no, I did screen-dress it with the Scorsese group ranking. So I was in charge of the middle 10. Yeah. It seemed like quite a stressful approach. Very simple podcast. Nothing stressful has ever happened on this. Not a lot of work. Uh, this one was especially, uh, chaotic, uh, Emily St. James, a friend of us and of the show was on the, uh, the 30 to 21 group. Like, didn't she fuck everything up by drafting something last or whatever? It was a group effort of fucking everything up, but just like chaos reigned on that. Like, they didn't want to deal with the Dylan doc. So they left us with like, no direction home Bob Dylan in the middle 10. We're like, I don't want to get, we're like, they left us out of here. They left us with who's that nodding at my door, which, I don't know if you guys have done that episode already. Yeah. Right now, it's a perfectly fine movie. I like them. Well, I was in the bottom 10. I would put it down. I would put it down. And that's what I don't understand about this approach of like, they get to choose, but it's good. It leans into the chaos. Wait, but now I'm looking. I mean, this podcast, how this right came worked out, well, there's just, oh, there's like videos. Oh, the Patreon members got to veto that. Yeah. I don't think that affected what we did. They were some of us. Irishman 29th. I mean, they did. Right. They did. Right. Right. What was dead last? What was number one? Dead last, what was number one, dead last was shine a light, which like sure, but it looks like someone tried to put first one. Fine. I mean, but again, it sort of doesn't count like, I mean, even 30, I think they bring shine a light and a rolling thunder review, which I don't think was a theatrical thing. That was a Netflix thing, which is actually kind of fun. And then I love it. It's a lover of rules. It's stressing me out. I was not. I was not. And throwing thumbs up. But no, it looks like someone tried to put the departed. Yes. That was their real chaos. It was trolling. I think we wanted putting the departed in our middle 10. Which I would put it in my top 10, honestly, you're wondering why someone tried to put the departed last. You must have missed that Frank Costello was a guest on that episode. I smell a rat on this podcast. I think they did. Age of Ending Census number one. I wasn't on that one either. We had to have it number one and they have good fellas to tax driver three. I mean, like age of age number one, it's a little too chaotic guys. This is a little. I'm. I tried to make it less chaotic. But it looks like the veto system really messes with stuff because then it like stuff will get bumped up. There's a lot of rules. A lot of like, we want to put in Wolfelwalstree in our middle 10 because our pal Joe Reed is not a fan of it. And I didn't have the ability to. You hit you. I would put Wolfelwalstree in my top 10. But the thing I'm really proud of from our group is that we left Alice for the top 10. Like we said, like we said, we're not drafting Alice. You guys can have it in there because I think it's. I think it's in my top 10. It's really. That's totally fine. And it's a great movie. Kate Fear is number 10. I just don't know about this. No, what's going on? And it feels like because you guys left dishes, it's weird that there's like movies that vault up the list because the prior guys just didn't want to talk about this. It was a corpse thing where you're like, oh, I guess who's that knocking at my door is number 19. You did a Pixar one. I feel like you had like an aneurysm doing that. I guess respectfully to the fine folks at the screen draft. They have actually to come on. And I've been like, I've heard you're up to four hour long. I will be doing it. I know. I'm sorry. I did it once with J.D. and we did Jim Henson movies and we had a wonderful time. And your friends. And I were in sync. Yeah. Like the fucking bath brothers. Yeah, you got to do it with your friends. Right. And it was it was contained. Right. And then they were like, do you want to do a Pixar mega draft? It's every Pixar movie, which at that point maybe was 21 or 22. And I believe it took six hours. Everyone else was on the West Coast. I finished the episode and the garbage trucks were coming to collect. The sun was rising. This was deep lockdown. And I say this. I say this kindly. I don't blame anyone involved in this episode. This is just what it was. It was the worst day I had in the pandemic. I remember that. And that's the most damning thing I could say about any 24 hour period. Yeah. Yeah. That's a. That's tough. I couldn't handle it. I'm so it's exhausting. Every time I have done that. And then at the end of it, I say, wow. But I watched every morning. And it felt nice part. Right. I mean, you guys are doing the same thing. That part of it paid off so much for me because I still think about it. Have a podcast that gives us an excuse to do the same thing on a more manageable schedule. Although you do make some long episodes. We do. But I don't know if anyone's heard about that. But I get stressed out even when like our friends at the Big Pick are doing drafts and they're like, I have to watch 80 things to prep for one episode. Yeah. Yeah. We did the Big Pick Oscar changing things like we were just doing and I was figuring out how to prep for that. I'm like, you can't watch everything but knowing what you need to pay attention to it is when you have that wide of field, it gets really crazy. But that's the thing you're just sort of like, well, what? I don't need to watch summer wishes winter dreams or whatever. I'm sure that's some bullshit now and the Chris Ryan shows up being like, guess what? I have a hot show in which we're taking us. Yes. What's that noise? Oh, it's the dossier crack hill. Creek. Oh, you are out of today. Good job. Ben Ben's doing great. He's guarding against my mental health sometime during the protracted and difficult production of William Freakens. 1973 classic "The Exorcist" P.P. Thomas. which, as you may or may not know, as with many of Friedkin film, was a bit of a trying shoot. It's a personality. Is it a player? Yes. There are some wild stories about that film. Yeah, where such as like, Friedkin would just fire a gun without telling anyone to make everyone freak out like on camera and say like action. And then like, tie a harness around Ellen Berson, just fucking break her tailbone. And like, the entire set was a refrigerator and maximum side-out with had makeup on. But by the time the movie was over, he just looked like that. Yeah. Um, so that film is really, really hard, but they make it and the studio, uh, which is a little studio called Warner Brothers. Um, David's mom is Warner Brothers shirt, uh, realizes it might have something special on its hands. And it's pretty impressed with one Ellen Berson. Yes. Basically John Callie is the in charge of Warner Brothers. They're looking at daily of the film and they basically just like call Ellen Berson or like, we want to do a movie with you. What do you want to do? Exactly. Like, you got, we have a pile of scripts. Take a look. You like to be in the Ellen Berson business, Ellen Berson, who I think is like a woman of taste. Yes. Or like, you know, a really a great actor, but also clearly a very intelligent one and a very thoughtful person who, you know, tries to give a shit, right? I don't know. And she's, she's one of the earliest members of the actor studio, uh, studies under Least Rossburg is like real, uh, protector of the flame of the sort of, I don't know, the beauty of acting. She studied under Least Rossburg when he only had a half inch of chest hair and it wasn't even white yet. He would sit there all day before he had the whole four inches, try to push it out. Like in Godfather, he actually doesn't die when they shoot him because the, the chest hair just catches the moment. Um, she's, she is a rare American to have the triple crown of acting, as it's called, where she has an Emmy, a Tony and an Oscar. What's her Tony for? Tony is for, uh, same time next year. And she has two Emmys, one foreign episode, I believe, of law and order SVU, the other one, of course for political animals. Oh, wow. What you were on. Which I was on. I told you to try that. No. Oh, you're forgetting. I was three times in a project with her. It was like, you're like, I've worked with you before and she's like, never. Try Silence was on draft day, which was the third and final time I worked with Ellen and he started building it to a contract after that, except I never worked with her. The conversation was in the make up thing. I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. And just in case someone has hurt all, I was talking to a whole, that make her Simons in the makeup trailer for draft day. Who's a bit of a chatterbox? Let's be honest. We like to talk, uh, silly boys. We were probably not even talking about Blures who knows what we would have been talking about. Mr. Show sketches or some shit. And she showed up in the makeup trailer. And I thanked her because at the rap party for not political animals, but possible side effects, a pilot directed by Tim Robbins that wasn't picked up or she basically played the matriarch of the Sackler family. Right. She was, it was like succession with medicine and she was braincocked. I went up to her at the rap party and told her how, how much, I was a fan of her work and how much she meant to me and that I was trying to start and she recommended me an acting teacher who was very, very important. You said, I, I used this person in the end and she said, I don't remember being on that show. If you say so, and I was like, what a moving thing to hear. I mean, say this in a mean way. Right. But she is an intense colleague. Okay. And then I went back to talking and she goes, well, I'm glad that helped you. And then I went back to talking to Tim. And after like 10 minutes, she went griffin and I went, yes. And she went tricycle. She didn't even say, why don't you try? No, it was. It wasn't an invitation. It was with her thing. Anyone has ever said, Tim has described it as witnessing a murder, like five minutes later she apologized. Well, and why not? He was lost too. He realized it was so devastating that she was like, look, I, look, I was, you were being a little loud. You might be surprised to hear it. No one bursts in someone who can command a lot of force without raising her voice. I met. She does it rarely, you know, the entire makeup trailer went silent. Oh, yeah. It was a fairly low budget studio movie because they were shooting on set. They stopped talking. They didn't even know why. Then it's leery shut up. It was like six to 10 shares in the makeup trailer, like everyone was in there. So there's a full line of people all with their own, like, hair and makeup people. And it like 20 people are just stunned silent. After five minutes, she goes, like, I'm sorry. It's just that I use this time to try to run my lines. She said something like that. I have your own fucking draft day, Ellen. Come on. What are your lines? Don't draft that guy. I mean, I'm your mother. I don't remember what she doesn't have, but she plays Kevin Costner's mother, of course. Great. And just so much. Imagine like proud of your drafting or not. Yes. Her to imagine like her and Dennis leery, like sharing season. I'm sure they do not. I don't remember. The three things I was in that she was in, she played the same role, basically, in all three. Right. The elusive matriarch. Slightly dominier. She was very good at it. Josh Lucas's mom, Sigourney Weaver's mom, and then Kevin Costner's mom. It's a white age range of people's moths. Yeah. But, you know, actors who can cover a lot of ground themselves, age wise. And at that point, Ellen Berson just read as old lady, like it was just sort of like, this is your classic old lady on screen who isn't trying to look young. You know, she hasn't had like bizarre shit done. She's in her 90s now. Yeah. And she's right. She famously, my favorite awards thing with her is that she was not my friend. I was sort of big love that I think she maybe doesn't have a line in. And she was just submitted kind of by mistake because they submitted a whole host of actors from big love for guest actors or whatever. And I think voters were just kind of like, Ellen Berson in big love. I assume she was good. Let's give her the nod and they had to like apologize for giving her a nomination. That also happened with that TV movie, the Bob Ballaband directed. That was, what was it? It's Susan Sarandon and Ray Finds. I want to say it's like a butler who killed the woman he works for. Wait. Is this Mrs. Harris, which I'm just looking at? I know. She's big love. Oh, you're saying oh, no. No, no, Mrs. Harris was a big thing. This one is a netbedding in Ben Kingsley, which is not off of what you're thinking. That's what I'm thinking of. There's like that, that movie has like a faux mockumentary style where it will cut to talking heads occasionally. Okay. Ellen Berson did a cameo as a favor where they cut to her and she goes like, I never liked her anyway. Oh, maybe that is what I'm thinking. Oh, yes. It may be that she has one line and it was an automatic nomination. And she was just like, this is offensive. You should unnominate me and nominate someone else. And I believe entertainment weekly did a rundown and they were like, look, she makes like 15 choices in her three seconds. They were like, this is a ridiculous nomination and clearly people didn't watch it. But also, this is sort of proof of how good she is. That means David and I were talking about the Emmys before coming here. The Emmys are completely ridiculous and what they nominate. They see the name like don't you don't got that nomination for the like for fucking secret you were going to a Marvel show, the Captain America museum or whatever being like pretty good exhibit. I think people see that name. They're showing people like, I don't know what this is. I don't know what this is. And they're like great doncheele. Especially if someone's a movie star and they're in a project that people know is legitimate but didn't watch. They're like, that was like a real thing, right? That was in HBO movie. How shitty could it be even with like movie stars on TV all the time now? It still has that we're like, Oh, Ellen Berson must be, I mean, if she's in it, it makes it seem legit. Correct. And for House of Cards, I know she was in House of Cards. Did she play Frank Underwood's mom? Probably. Probably a good guess. I want Elizabeth Hale. Big love. She played the leader of the cult. Did she not? Yeah. She's like a matriarch or something. Sounds like something Ellen Berson would do. I'm going to move on to the script she was sent. She was sent a big pile of scripts. And she's look. She's like, it was an education. Every woman in these scripts is either the victim, the understanding wife of some hero out saving the world or a sex object of some sort. There's no script where the woman was a protagonist. Stories were about men and women played a role in that man's story. So let's also call out Ellen Berson. I have nothing. Three bad marriages that all ended before the time she makes this movie. She knows from dysfunctional marriage. She tried divorce. She tried to force several times. Neil Burst in her third husband is a who she gets her name from. Yes. But was a schizophrenic. And I think fairly unbalanced her actual name is Edna Gillooly. Yes. Which you can see why she didn't use that as a stage name because it doesn't quite trip off the top. So it's early in the women's lib movement. As she says, it's the seventies. We're starting to look up and wake up and look around and she wanted to make a different kind of film. And so she finally reads Alice doesn't live here anymore. A script by Bob Getgel. She sends it to John Kelly. He likes it, but it had been optioned by David Suskind. And so he had no deal with the studio, but he had it. On the last possible day, he picks up his option to block the root of him because he doesn't have a studio. And so her agent calls him or maybe Tony called, you know, someone, you know, her agent calls him and it's like, Ellen wants to do this movie. And he's like, I'm doing it with Anne Bancroff. And he's like, we have a fucking green light from Warner Brothers. Like if we can do this, like you, you have like an idea of doing something someday or you know, we have a studio like who will make this movie? And and Suskind said, hmm, I think we should make this movie with Ellen Berson and Warner Brothers. Yeah. You know, this is crazy. John Kelly then says to Ellen Berson, do you want to direct it? Crazy. That is pretty wild. That is kind of, I don't know, without parallel in this time period. Pretty. I mean, like, I mean, all his life is. Correcting. You know, there's. If you show in, it's like when you think about like female directors in this studio assist. I mean, how hard Streisand had to fight. - Uh-huh. - Yeah. - I mean, Lena Vertmaler is getting that first woman best direction on this, and he's around the same time. Yeah, I just wonder if that causes that somehow. - Maybe. I mean, I think it might be just truly John Callie being like, this is a cheap movie. I want to be in the Ellen Burst in Business, and you know, you pick the script like you know. - It's time for management. - Yeah, so still a new Hollywood risk-taking era, and here's someone who kind of represents the new guard of acting styles. Here's someone who's kind of like a female Deneuro in terms of like, she's locked in some whole different process. Maybe she'd get interesting performances out of other people. - Uh, so instead she calls up a handsome Italian director by the name of Frances Coppola, and says, you know what I mean? And he says, "Why don't you watch a little movie "called Mean Streets? "It hasn't even come out yet, but I recommend it." And she watches Mean Streets, and Coppola had just seen it, and been like, "I like this Deneuro guy. "I think I'll put him in my movie Be Godfather Part 11." - Her quote was, she said, "You go look at a movie like Mean Streets." Or no, that's what Frances said to her. She said it felt exactly what Alice needed, 'cause it was a wonderful script and well written, but for my taste it was a little slick. - Scripts a little slick. - You know, in a good way. - She wanted some grit. - And kind of a Doris Day Rock Hudson kind of way, and I wanted something a little bit more gritty. It's smart to just go like, okay, I like the script and the foundation of this, but if someone deals with it on a superficial level, I think it's not gonna work. So how do I get someone who's sort of like, hire a director against type for the film to bring it down? - I have a hard time imagining that script. I feel like a wonder if like, did he change the script itself? Or is it really just all in style that changes all this video? - I don't know. Maybe there's three episodes of the sitcom that he retroactively submitted. - Or it's the Chris Christofferson romcom that the poster makes you think it is. - But it does make you consider how cool it would be if like, either Safdie Brother did this today. - Oh yeah. - Yeah, I wonder if there's an analog 'cause there are some directors who've done stuff like this, but yeah, I'd have to think, but I love this. She meets with this, as she puts it, small nervous little guy. - Yeah. - That's a good way to describe him. And he's like, he's excitable and they're talking about it. And she says, you know, it's hard to tell from that film, mean streets. What you know about women, do you know anything about women? Which is a fair note, have you met one? And he says, no, but I'd like to learn, which is pretty cute. Pretty good answer. He's a intelligence beam through his face. So we went to work together. - Had he started any of his failed marriages by this point? Where are we at? - For sure. - Where are we in this world? - He says he's bad husband history. - He's one divorce down. - Yeah, great. - But look, it's the classic like 60s. You know, he's, yeah. He's not married to Julia Cameron, yeah. He's divorced from Lorraine Brennan. Like the 60s early marriage where it's like, well, we had to live together and our parents would be mad. - Right, you know. - I wanted to have sex, which of course, we had when we were children in a modern house. - So he has years of being a bad husband and still ahead of him. And that's all. - Not much more to learn about where he was from. - Quite an abs revolutionized mom. - He was the field of bad husband. - Oh, I assume you guys have talked about Mr. Scorsese, the documentary over the course of doing this, but the amount of his ex-wives and daughters in the movie here, like, yeah, he was terrible. We love him though. - Yeah, was it just like, he did well. - The never saw him. - He was really around, but. - It's just really remarkable how affectionate they are for all the horrible things, not like horrible, but he was not. - No, no. - He was mostly absent. - Yes, yeah. - Right, it's not like, yeah, it's normal. - I would not want to have been married. - But I think that's why I'm in this kind of role. - The vibe I got, right? 'Cause in talking about a movie about bad marriages and such, we don't want to imply a different kind of bad marriage. - Sure. - You watch that and it just feels like everyone who married him kind of felt bad for him. Not that they were marrying him at a pity, but they were just like, I was just really worried about him. Like, everyone talks about him like a little danger, like fawn, that they tried to nurse back to hells and they were like, ultimately it ran back into the woods. - He and Robbie Robertson just stayed up all night for three days and I said, you go, buddy. - Yeah. - Just go live your life. - Call that the woods. - So they get to work. He's dating Sandy Weintrobe at the time. - Okay. - And she sort of was the one who kind of read the script from across this desk or whatever and said, like, this is good. Like, you know, this has interesting characters because I assume he was basically just getting all that like gangster movies like being sent to him, right? - Yes. - So it's like, he's smart. He's like, I should make something completely different, right? Like, what better way than, you know, than, you know, to avoid being typecast. Alice was a way of trying to find another way kind of make genre in Hollywood. It was something like a vehicle, like a Betty Davis vehicle or John Crawford vehicle. I enjoyed those movies, like Mr. Skeffington. So this would be a way of embracing the genre. It is so funny that even young 20 something modern of course, as he making movies about guys. - Like a woman's picture. - Right, who shoot each other is like, but I am a huge mover nerd who has seen every single - Every great director has made a way to my picture. - Right. I have great respect for Mr. Skeffington. - Well, you do have to assume the script did not include the prologue in this that looks like the Wizard of Oz. - It is. - It's probably. - It's gorgeous. - I mean, you start out with like a fucking like, Douglass Turk opening credits sequels. - Yeah, like the silk rumpled in the background with the titles over and a lot of it. - You feel like you're watching the wrong move. - Mm-hmm. - And obviously, as you just pointed out, I'm very inspired by Mr. John Kasovetti. - Mm-hmm. - Which you see a little bit. - And look at an actor-driven movie. - He has a great relationship with his mom. That's like, it's different from this movie. - Yes. - But he has like a chatty, firecracker. - Obviously, right. Informal kind of relationship with his mom. And so he's investing a little bit of that in there. Well, you know, his dad is clearly stoner and more reserved, but his mom is a cut up. What's he's funny? Getshell's screenplay apparently, he wanted to change the third part dealing with the farmer, okay. That means Chris Christoffer's nice. - Yeah, right across, you camped. - I don't know. It's like the beginning is not quite right and the last sequence is not quite right. They rewrote it together, they weren't satisfied. Then they start doing some improv in New York with Alan. That's kind of cool. And then they would sort of throw it back to Getshell. I don't know, they're just describing if you're writing the movie, who cares? They did a good job. - There is an elected like three and a half hour cut of this movie that I'm sure is more of an assembly than a proper cut, but this is one of those movies where I would watch kind of any footage they had. - I'd watch them all hanging. - And I would watch an entire movie set at a diner, but I would say this is a well-paced movie. It does not need to be long. - It is, but I'd be curious. I mean, and that's the difference between him and Cassavetes where there's like the famous story of him screening husbands and a killing and being like, the audience is enjoying it too much. We're adding an hour into it. Like Cassavetes was like, if the audience is enjoying it too purely, I've done something wrong. And it doesn't feel like this movie is taking easy outs, but you can tell that Scorsese is like, I'm not trying to punish people. - As mentioned earlier, David Tuscan once viewed this as an ambient cross vehicle. - Supposedly at one point Diana Ross was attached. - Well, well, well. - Which is crazy. I mean, obviously she was like, well, I'll only do it if David Nivita's there. (laughing) I bow. - And obviously Walter Houston plays my song. - John Houston. (laughing) - Walter Houston might have died by that. Walter Houston could play the chef. - He's like, there, there, there, there. - He's out. - Order a meal. - Yeah. - Shirley McClain in 2005 said she turned it down because she didn't know who Scorsese was. J.J. adds in parentheses. - That doesn't make this have to be a false memory. - I like that. - No way, that's true. - But she said in other places that the script has offered her. - She offered her. - I don't think she would have been offered the Scorsese version, but the script obviously had been around the world. - Well, if it was kicking around the studio, like presumably every actress in that interview. - She's one of the towers. - She's one of the people you would have offered anything to. - Ellen Berson says the biggest regret she has is she didn't take a producer credit. - She should have because she was like, I was the shepherd of the film. I should have been an executive producer. I didn't ask. I demured. Oh, I don't need credit. I'm the star. If I have been an executive producer, I would have gotten points on that fucking thing. - I would have made that Alice money. - Because I do feel like usually it'd be like, oh well, it's a credit who cares. And Alice is the one scenario where you're telling me this small domestic drama turned into a regular paycheck. - Yes. I mean, she made, she did make one of the coolest deals of all time eventually for exercises. - The last exercise, do you remember this? - It's like they created an acting school or something. - They created a scholarship that runs indefinitely. - Right. - They kept offering her money. - They were like, give you a million dollars. Okay, you're gonna be on the movie from five days. - I don't give a shit and they're like 10 million dollars, 25% of the gross. And she was just like, you're the actual terms. Scholarship for acting school, every year granted full ride in perpetuity. And made them like make a commitment to doing that. - Which rules? - Of course, the only downside is she's in the movie for like two minutes being like, I too was once an exercise, I think it's her eyes gouged out and you were like, what? - The kids give that acting scholarship, don't need to know that. - Well, they make them watch the movie unfortunately. - It's so funny that they were like, we have to have you in the movie, why? So we can got your eyes out, two minutes in. - That's definitely a reshoot thing though, right? - It sounded like that movie felt clean to me, Griff. That movie felt, nobody touched it. - The famously bleak thing about that movie is they make the big rights deal like in summer 2020. And they were like, we don't have a script yet, but can we really wait and take the chance of Ellen Burston dying? - Here are six years later. - Exactly. So they wrote a couple scenes just to be able to shoot with her in 2020, then didn't finish the script until a year later. Then when they shot the rest of the movie, they were like, huh, the stuff we shot with Burston doesn't really fit. So then they reshot and they were like, what if you don't have eyes? What if I gouged out? - We just kind of have something shocking happen in the halfway in the movie. She did not attend the Oscars as we mentioned. She was busy starring in same time next year on Broadway with Charles Gerder. - Oh, which is what she was trying to do. - She was trying to win it time for it. - And then we'll get an Oscar nomination. She thought more got leave. Sounds like a guy. I'm not gonna look up who that is. Thought she should fly back to Los Angeles to take, you know, to, to, you know, go to the Oscars. And she was just like, I didn't want to disappoint people. I didn't, you know, I don't want no offense to understudies, but like people are paying to see me in Charles. Like, I've been to a lot in the 70s. People just didn't go to the Oscars in the 70s and they went, like, I didn't realize there was a big deal. Yeah. And now, like, when Sean Penn doesn't go, it feels like size Sean Penn is the first acting winner to not go since Paul Newman won in the 80s. So we're not actually. He's crazy. We're not counting Anthony Hopkins. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're giving him because he was a sleep in Wales. Right. Right. But that was living Oscar winner, non-Anthony Hopkins. He's not nuts. Yeah. That is funny. Yeah. Like it's become such a thing. And now, best actor. Oh, Anthony Hopkins and the father. Well, good night. Do you do your walking fetus impression while doing my thing? Yeah. Joker himself. Like, the old spirit of the moment had been like, I don't really want to be. Even the weirdest guy in the world is like, this feels awkward. Even I'm getting a sense that this is awkward. Chris Christopherson, it's just his fifth film. What has he just done Pat Garrett and Billy the kid? Well, she's phenomenal, which is such a cool movie. Yeah. Have you ever seen that one, Ben? I haven't. I think I know it has a bit of a vibe. You might. But still with Dylan connection. Dylan's really good. Dylan Roxton. It's just the music is so cool. Obviously. I'll watch it together. I haven't seen any more. I love a question. You know, he's also in Dennis Hopper's insanely normal. The last movie. That's his first appearance. Right. That title is a threat. Dennis Hopper was like, I'm trying to end movies forever. That movie rule. That movie is very cool. That's another one. I assume you have you been enjoying the recent Catherine Linossa from the pit press cycle of I am. I interviewed her last year and she does just like, she will drop it to this hopper. Just like, it doesn't have to get into it, but just like, you know, everyone just needs to know that. She married him. She was like 19. I fucking love her thing is she was saying like, you know, he was the great love of my life. And so he continues to haunt me. Obviously, we got divorced and then he married someone else after me. But when he was dying, they were in the process of getting divorced. So I was the last person. He was married to where it ended on good terms and I'm like, hey, this ghost comes to my house. You also got to work. What are you talking about? We patched it up. Yeah. After life. And now she's married to what's his name for Melrose place. Who's she married to? Oh my God. Hang on. Okay. I love her. I love Grant. Grant show. Oh, I love Grant show. David. They're married. Remember when he was on the threesome show? He's on swingers. Swing town. It was called swing town. Swing town. I was one of those CBS was like, can we do a show about swingers on CBS? And it's like, well, you're not really nudity and sex in your show. And they're like, no, what can you have drugs in your show? Like, not really. It's like, well, then why are you making that? It's going to be so risque in episode six. Someone mentions that they saw a bug. So the 2000s were like, they were so jealous of HBO and they like, we want one of those. Yeah. The job where they were like, he's going to say shit. One time every other episode, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll give TV guide advance warning that this is one of the episodes he says shit on. Yeah. Quietly as he exits a room. Yeah. Exactly. Uh, he was also in a film called a star in a film called Cisco Pike, which I've never seen. Oh, sure. I got Karen Black, Christopher Sarvuson, Harry Dance, Dean Stanton and the, uh, warhol superstar Viva. I mean, like how bad could that be? That sounds fun. That'll be a little formless. Uh, who knows? I was going to say that movie was called Quiet Con Conversations on the set. Everyone's easy to deal with the movie, the motion picture, and then he's in something called Bloom in Love, a Paul Misersky movie I've never seen, uh, starring George Seagull, where I assume he's got like, I feel like he was often kind of the energy, bearded guy. Yeah. Right. You know, he's coming in off the bench. I was giving you some sort of hot, cool energy. Viva is Gabby Hoffman's mother. Oh, there you go. Yes. Right. I was trying to remember who it was, but yes, sorry. Go on. So Scorsese is like meeting him and basically being like, I love pet Garrett. And Christopher's like, everyone fucking, you know, and, uh, you know, they had a great relationship after some early, you know, nervousness or whatever. Um, Christopher's in, this is an interesting way, Berson puts it is like he just couldn't accept that he was an actor after every take, he cringed and be like, Oh, man, that was dog shit. Like he just had no, like, you know, confidence in his own ability. And I bet you that Berson is Scorsese, you're both kind of like, I don't know man, pretty hot. I mean, I'm so annoyed by that being like, dude, get on my level, like, no, she loves it. She says he was wonderful, like, you know, we would be really connected. He was a new voice in America, like, I mean, you know, they, how do you not have a crush on this guy? You know, Marty? No, the Chris. Chris Alverson. Yes. Yes. Marty, I feel like you're a little more like, oh, Marty. You're so great. Berson is just one of the most, uh, I feel like inarguably hot pizza. Just the kids. He just has unbelievable race. Yeah. Uh, Alfred Lutter, who plays little Tommy, uh, they did a, they saw 300 kids. He's so goodness. Uh, and Sandy Windtrop, the, you know, says, Hey, Marty, you got to see this guy. She, he sees this kid and they say, what do you want to be when you grow up? And he says, a stand up comic. Marty loves him. And exactly. They're, uh, they're, and he's like, let's get him in the room with Alan. And they're like, hey, just, you know, improv or whatever. And, uh, they start just kind of like bouncing off each other and there you go. He's really great. Do we have any idea how much of their scenes together are improvising a lot? I think a lot. I think a lot of their kind of rad attack. It's like, you know, we're back and forth. So perfect. Yes. And you kind of can't script that stuff, especially. And it's just the way she's kind of like, what? You know, like half the time, like that way you are is apparent where you're like, I'm picking up. I think I'm picking up where you're reading up. Why are you talking about it? Right. This is like the huge thing for me in this. Sometimes I wash it again, having an almost 10 year old is like when you like love this kid and you had to put up with him, but like if he tells you that story, one more fucking time, you're going to jump out the window. Really? That joke that he's trying to tell her, she's like crying, asking him to stop telling that show. He reminds me a lot of myself in that way when you tell me about these things. Yes. Just like, I mean, they're like the dynamic of your kid who you love and is the thing you will do anything for me. Like you're so annoying. I cannot listen to you for another moment. I think she is meaner to her kid, David, you can tell me what you think then I would be too much older. I would not. I would not kick them out of the car and make them walk a final mile to get home, I would think. Yeah, no, there are, but there are some relatable moments. But there's some, I would say there's some 70s, like, oh, you've got a phone call about this. I mean, it's a movie that builds the spanking. It is a movie about how to use. We'll talk about the hitting kids part of it to, or like, Jody Foster, juvenile delinquency and Jody Foster. Holy shit. She's amazing. It's unbelievable. Well, I assume we'll get to her in the dossier. I am about to tell you that Jody Foster shot all her stuff two days. Wow. Yep. Real pro. It was like doing another commercial first. She came in bang, bang, bang, two days. She knew all her stuff. Two days, two bottles of wine. That was all. And this is a Scorsese and there's this damn situation with the welfare workers where a woman came over to me and said, stop. And I was like, what do you mean stop? And they were like, stop. She has to go to school. And I was like, okay. She's the grand tradition. Jody Gardner. Jody Gardner. We're 20 hours a day. You know, they've got a lot of like actor studios, people kind of peppered in the background here. A lot of Ellen Burst and Faves, you know, are filling in the cast. What are we going to say, Katie? Oh, it's just where Jody Foster was and I got 100 Wikipedia pages. She's like doing Disney stuff, but this is so before anything where she's a star. Obviously, this is how Marty knows her for. Taxi driver would change the story he makes. Oh, correct. But she's really only done a couple of movies. Right. But she's like a TV star, right? Like she did. I mean, TV show. We love it. Did know that existed. Play it, Addy. Pray on that. Am I wrong in thinking that she even replaced Taedemoneel and some later version of bad news bears? Are my conflating the two things? I know she was the voice of one of Charlie Chan's children on the Hanover bearer Charlie Chan cartoon, which I'm looking up here has aged perfectly. I was about to say, sounds like something you'd want to be pushing out right now. It sounds like something that you would know and no one else would know. Like this is a perfect and junk in my brain forever. You're conflating. Jody Foster was supposed to be the star of bad news bears, turned it down to do a little movie called Taxi Driver. Uh-huh. There we go. Yes. But now she's done some Disney movies. She done a lot of like TV stuff and freaky Friday as much later that's all later. Like I think right. Like it's like that's a that's the same year. That's actually driver. That's nuts. What can I tell you? Not all. And Bugsie Malone is also the same year. Wow. All three of those are 76. Wow. But you know, she'd done the, uh, the Tom Sawyer movie. She's basically like sort of the second lead of that. That's before, whatever. You know, she's a punky little kid, little tomboy. That's her thing. The perfection of her as a queer icon in this movie, like just from the jump of her being like, yeah, this is it's this woman had to come out of the Golden Globes 40 years later. It's so funny that it's like this overt in this movie. And then it's just like, finally, let's just go back in the closet and not really talk about it for a while. Yeah. We're ready. Uh, I want to call out. about Leia Goldani. - Goldani? - Yeah, sure. - Who was the female lead in Shadows, the Casabetti's movie? - Ooh, yeah. - Leila. - Leila Goldani. - Leila Goldani, yeah, yeah, yeah. But is a movie about White Passing African Americans? - Yes. - I mean, if you've ever seen that iconic Shadows poster, that's her face. - She is incredible in that film. - Yes. - She was a fully Caucasian woman. The success of that movie, critically-- - She's Italian, I believe. - Yes. - Damaged her career because people-- - Right. - It's this insane thing where she was a white person playing a white passing black person who then lost roles because people assumed she was black and couldn't play white. - So it just feels like this was kind of a man she moved for Scorsese to throw her a role? - Like we said, you know, he's a devotee of Casabetti's. - Well, she's in about two scenes in the very beginning where they're doing like the dress fitting and then the yard sale. - She's the one who's with her when she gets the phone call over her husband. - Yeah, she's like that relationship between the two of them is so perfect and real and you know so much about them. So as soon as she gets that phone call and then they say goodbye at the car and like the little boys are rolling their eyes at them and they're so emotional, it's just wonderful. - She got a bathroom on for this. - Oh my God. - Well, the bath does work. - They loved this man as well. - Alice Fever. - They gave her this picture, right? - I think so. - I think they did. - Yeah, the bath does love this movie. This movie traveled well. - Did they nominate Diane Ladd also? - Well, the Oscars did. - Yeah, I just, I believe so, let me double check that. But I think in one screenplay picture actress and then it got, yes, it got double noms. Diane Ladd won the bath does. - Oh my God. - It laid on my nose. - And this is, you know, the bath does treated this like a 75 because it made it to Europe till 75. - Oh, sure. - The 1976 bath does. So it's beating, it won't, it'd be Barry Lyndon dog day afternoon and jaws, which I might have some notes on that as much as I like this movie. (laughing) And she won best actress and Diane Ladd won best, supporting actress in one best screenplay. Yeah, they fucking went nuts for it. I can only imagine the British viewing audience being like, what's this movie about like an Arizona diner waitress is better than Barry Lyndon? Are we sure? - Jenna Brolin's won the Golden Globe against her. - She's pretty good in that, that their movie. - I think it's maybe the best performance ever committed to film. - First and didn't win any of the critics awards. So I think it must have been seen as a slight surprise, especially considering the bath does come so much later because I think basically New York film critics NBR, they all gave it to Jenna Rollins. - Sure. Just have a call, man. - It's a tough call. - Who am I giving it to? I guess we'll find out. - Yeah, that's right. - She's going. - Anybody out for the letter? - Indeed gave it to one, Jenna Rollins for a woman under the influence. Why are there nominees? Is this he's basic for bad? Wait, why do I have faith on a way for Chinatown in here? - I don't know. This is crazy person. - Ellen Burstin, Brigitte Mira for Allie Furrier, it's the song of the film movie. Anyway, the movie Alice doesn't live here anymore, is about a lady named Alice Hyatt, who lives in New Mexico and has a kid, whose name is. - Tommy. - That's right. Wanted to be a singer. Damn it, she is a singer. - Is a singer. - She's a former singer. And now she's married to a guy called Donald, who is a Coca-Cola delivery truck driver played by Billy Greenbush. - This guy sucks. - Real piece of work. - But who sucks in just kind of like a boring shitty way. - Yeah. - It's not even like a true kind of like page-turning melodrama, kind of like, he's the nastiest husband and she casts it. It's just like, she's just stuck with this loser. - Or not even like Harvey Cytel. - I was gonna say, like, he's got charisma. You can see how he does this. - Cytel is compellingly awful. - Oh my God. - And it's Cytel too, so you're kind of like, "I guess I'm looking at this guy." - We've been talking about this Katie. It is just so funny that for who's that knock at my door and mean streets, Cytel is Scorsese analog. It is, and in a way where past those two movies, I would say Scorsese does not have self-insert characters. You feel him as the character watching the movie and making the movie, but there doesn't feel like there's someone who represents him. The second he stops having those characters, he's like, Harvey, here's the deal. I'll still put you in my movies. You only play the most contemptible people in the world. - You play real shit here. - I'll pedophile Judas. - Judas, literal Judas. - Hey, it's a complex portrayal of Judas, okay? Yes, the name is a bit of a scarlet letter or whatever. - But it's funny that in this one, you're like, "Oh, maybe he plays like a sweet guy "if he can bear a little land." - And you're like, he's been looking like, "You know, this guy, let's see what he does." - Biggest. - So yeah, I mean, Ben, what did you think of this movie? - I haven't even gotten your take yet, 'cause I feel like it's kind of a bad movie. - I had never seen it before. - No, sure, no, I just mean like the vibe is sort of been appropriate. - I loved it. - Yeah, it's really good. - It really reminded me of my mom and our dynamic. - Your mom said it's really cool. - And I can see Ben having a bit of a tummy, a little bit. - A little bit. - 100%. But my mom was so funny and silly, but slightly aloof. Like she was always a little unknowable. So I just, yeah, I really saw a lot of her in this character. - Hey, Ben, the actor, Alfred Lutter, who plays Tommy, New Jersey legend. He's from Bridgewood. He graduated from Bridgewood High School. Then he got a Bachelor of Science and Civil Engineering from Stanford. - Well, that's not New Jersey, but sure. - That's so brave. - But we can try to-- - I don't know. - Master of Science degree, he founded Lutter Consulting, a company providing technology strategy. And he later, it started a website called linda.com. What is linda.com? - That's what we can give you the age. - Linda.com became LinkedIn Learning. - Oh, wow. - It's sort of like a online-- - It was online learning site. - That LinkedIn bot. - Wow. - He was like an early tech guy. - Yeah. The original tech man. - The original tech man, they call him. - Yeah. - Well, this movie reminding you of your mom, Ben. I think it's another thing that feels so important about it to me that it's about the relationship between a parent and a child. And a way that I just don't think that many movies do it. Where it's like, it's a relationship. There's a push and a pull. It's not about a mother's love. It's not about a kid looking up to their parents. It's actually complicated. And I can't get over how real that feels and how rare it is. Maybe you guys have better examples than I do. - No, I'm thinking as the counterpoint to this, Kramer versus Kramer, which is not a movie I love. - Well, but it's a very watchful movie. - No, it's a very watchful movie. - I don't think it's a bad film, but it's not a movie I deeply care for. And a lot of people credit Hoffman's Oscar win for how good he is with the kid. But that feels a little more like an actor showing off how good his chemistry can be with the kid. And that movie also sets him up to be like, you'll never believe how surprisingly good this guy is. Like it's like big daddy without the jokes of like he really gets it together. - Yeah. - It doesn't feel like a very accurate portrayal. - Yeah. - And it's so reductive in sort of the way it treats the moral-street character. - It's like so plot-driven in being like, can he step up to it? - Totally. - But like the first and the very beginning. - Oh, he makes good breakfast. What an incredible day. - Yeah. And like in the very beginning of this movie, the husband's being a jerk about something or another and she goes over to the sun and she's basically like, hey, look, help me out here. You gotta get, we gotta get around this guy. Like they are co-conspirators getting through this. And that is so often what, especially as your kids get older and you can be like, look, give me a break here. I'm trying my best. You're trying your best. Like it's almost like she's letting him kind of see like she's just a person who's trying to figure this out. And again, just making some choices I wouldn't make. But I love that it makes it, they're not equals, but it makes it a real back and forth, which parent-child things don't do often. - Well, let's also call out the inciting incident of this movie, which is hard to get, kids act on screen like this. Like it's impressive, you know, yeah. Her piece of shit husband dies. They get in a bad fight. - Yes. - He hits her. It does not seem like this is the first or only time this is happening. - No, he's a loser. - And then a day later, he dies in a meaningless Coca-Cola truck accident. - Well, it's like, this is so cool. - Oh, look, I get delivered. But I'm saying, there's people thirsty out there. - You're right, you're right. And they need a pep in there. - It was a costly death. - Did you just imagine like little Marty like staging that accident? Like the tablo of like the people hanging out of the car. I just think there's some blood on the street. It's perfect. - Well, you also imagine him being friends with Spielberg and being jealous of like dual. And being like, I have one shot to show the aftermath of dual, you know? They're not letting me stage action sequences yet. - Nope. - But she's grieving a bad relationship. - Yeah. - She's experiencing real grief for this and her son is as well. And she tries to take this as an opportunity to uproot her life. Something she's clearly dreamed of doing, but not felt the courage to do. It felt too radical to blow up her life in order to do that. But now her life has blown up for her. And so so much of the weird tension between her and her son is that her son is like, grieving the loss of a father who, he's starting to realize like, maybe suck. - Yeah, yeah. - And the kid is just getting into the age where you start thinking of your parents as people too. - He was already feeling that way. - Yeah, like he's at the perfect phase to see her as a person and to look back at his dad is not just like a hero. - Right, he was putting salt in the coffee, which does feel, let's call it out. - Very bent, it feels like a little bent move. - Definitely. - Yeah. - Ben, I was wondering if like something where she's saying like, if you keep your mouth open one more time, you're gonna throw you out. He just like opens his mouth as wide as he can. Is that a little bent move? - Yes, definitely. - Like I'll show you, the foul mouth around. - You can't slam my mouth shut while you're driving. - So what happened? So husband dies. I think it's really well played by her where she's sad 'cause her husband dies. Plays the emotion quite honestly. But just you just kind of buy that she pretty quickly is kind of like snapped out of a dream or whatever. Like that she's just kind of like, let's just go. Like, there's nothing fucking, There's no reason for us. to be here. Like, well, it's the past tense, present tense thing of like, I think of myself as someone who wanted to be a singer and didn't have the courage to follow through. Right. So, and then she just decides, like, I am a singer. I sang. There's nothing keeping me here. Why not read, construct my life around this dream? And fairly quickly, that scene of her singing at the piano at home where like, it's the lingers on her singing for a while and you get the kid outside. And he's kind of like reframing how he thinks of her. Like, it's an interesting venture into his perspective about her talent, which you don't get that much of. And it's, I mean, it's just like really well done. That's one of the early moments where you're like, "Oh, here's, here's Marty, testing it out, figuring out what he can do with the camera." And the Layla Guldani character reads as her one person support system, where you're just like, this is kind of scary for her to go out. There are no, you know, she, there's the notion of the family home of going back to where she came from. But it doesn't feel like there's a solid base of support from her family extension. Yeah. Do we even know who's in Monterey? Like, she talks about it all the time, but like, who were they going? Not really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you also have no sense that the kid's life, but he's a kid, I guess. I mean, those kids go really well. Oh, essentially, he could be like, "I have friends at school." Or he's like, "You bet, David." We're fucking in the room. And Joey Foster is some wine waiting for you. So she gets them to Phoenix, right? Like, that's where she gets them to where she starts singing. I mean, this says she finds work as a lounge singer, like in the narrative. I mean, I would barely call what she's singing in lounges. There's like a microphone over there if you really want to go over. The grimeyness of these bars that she's going to, like bars in the 70s just for not, they didn't seem like fun places to hang out. I had my intent up the whole time. I'm like, geez, is someone going to be like a mega creep or whatever? And instead, they're all just kind of like, I don't know, like, you know, there's the most you just kind of like, old man's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no one's ever like, oh, yeah, you can have this gig if you come with me over here. There's no key clients. Right. But this was kind of a style of a bar of a very big. And they just like kind of don't bug anyone like sing something that'll be nice in the background. But this is like a little value ad on beyond. Right. Right. But bars with no windows. Like, I remember them being somewhere when I was a kid, like after this, but like you would never, like women wouldn't go to these bars much like you wouldn't bring your kids in any of these places. But let's also just call out the like the velvet opening titles. Then this like, which is like red sound stage completely, as you said, very like beginning of wizzards. It felt like the one big ideas Marty has. Right. Right. He's like, I want to do this. I know I don't have a lot of money, but like I want to do this one thing. Right. This this little girl like practicing this him over and over again, it literally says like Monterey, California, Alice, a young girl. Yeah. And then it's just sort of like her loneliness. You only see her parents in like silhouette basic and they're like yelling at her. Yeah. You you get a sense of why this person didn't have the courage to follow their dreams and has settled in their life. That's what this movie brought. And she's singing a song about caring and no one cares about her. I mean, he was a good kisser, guys. Oh, the husband. Give it up for Donald. I think that's his name, Donald. I love when she tells the kid like, ask me again in a few years and I'll explain it to you. It's like, what are you going to say to him when he's 14? Yeah. That's not a good conversation. That's that's really just pushing things off. Well, I think she'll say to slightly open your mouth instead of like, yes, you know, trying to take a little while. You're you're you're about to eat someone's skull with that kind of pet mouth right now. This film was shot in Tucson, Arizona. Where it's set. Why isn't it set near that? Why not? Okay. I'm really good answer. Don't really know. I mean, Marty says it was a movie town. You could do anything you want there. It's a great town to shoot in. I just think about Spielberg, like having kind of that like Southern US part of things to himself. I mean, like, when I'm at a New York place back then, you know, Arizona in, you know, after the war is, but you know, 60 70s. It's sort of like, there's a ton of space. It's cheap as hell and it's growing and like, it's not even really begun to explode in the way that the southwest would. But like, it makes sense for somewhere. Someone's going to go where it's like, well, you know, there'll be something for me to do over there. Yeah. You know, like, it's like. Johnny Foster says it's a weird place. I think I mean, like, honestly, like the Southwest obviously has its own character to it now. But yeah, back then, I bet it was pretty weird. Yeah. I know a single thing about Tucson, except for this one, this movie basically. I think I don't know much about Tucson either. It's not far from Phoenix. I think of it as the kind of crunchier, more liberal cousin to Phoenix is a big town. Yeah. I don't know. The Jody line is my favorite single line of writing in this movie, which is weird, very weird. He's even weird for Tucson and Tucson is the weird capital of the world. Right. I mean, it's the college, you know, it's where the university Arizona is. So it's got the, you know, the, you know, from college town. Exactly. I live in college town. Exactly. Diversity right around the corner. Well, you live in like an old school house, right? You like accidentally. Yeah. Exactly. I don't just live with a 10-year-old in the 7-year-old with like 20, 20-year-olds. Or I guess more of a neighbor's house maybe. Yeah. I guess you're worrying with the frat boys. Yes. So, yeah, they went a week over production, you know, they went a week over schedule, went a little over budget. You know, it's Marty just getting ready for his real sojourns over budget. But a little over budget is 1.6 million. Yeah. I was budgeted at 1.6 and ended up more like 1.8 or whatever. Sure. It was a gas crisis, which was an issue that's doing that. That was interesting. I was going to say this was also, you know, Mean Street was basically an independent film that became a negative pickup for Warner Brothers. This is him like making a film for Warner Brothers. I think that must have also been appealing to him. You know, it's a lot easier to sell them. David Strong has to share. I'm wearing the 70s logo. It's a lot easier to sell them on something like taxi driver that seems really risky at Columbia. When it's like you made a studio film, you were responsible enough. The amount you went over budget was more than covered by the success. You made someone an Oscar. We think you had final cut on this, by the way, not, right? Yeah. Well, you never know in the 70s, I guess. I don't think the carrot is much. I don't know if you tested well. They would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My guess is, well, anyway, I mean, not like, look, on page 15, we need Alice already at the diner. Like they're not coming in with those dumb notes. I will. And yet this was turned into a sitcom. New Hollywood. I remember they watching the like, okay, but actually diner page one, every Tuesday night. Why do they end up in Tucson? Well, there was literally a gas crisis and they could not make it to Tucson. Basically, it has nothing to do with the picture as everything to do with production is what Martin. Wow. Okay. There you go. Everything. Nothing was shot now except the opening sequence was on on a lot. Obviously the red prologue. He basically says, I had a chance to use a Hollywood set. How else are you going to do a flashback? How do you want to do a flashback? That's the whole point. Goddamn script opened and said flashback 1948, Monter, a California, and he was just adamant. You know, they're like, what if you do like black and white like that? That would make more sense. And he's just like the characters hung up on movies. I feel like she would remember in this kind of half fantasy way, it should look like a 40s movie. It should look kind of indoors. He admits, I got a little crazy with the redness. It's very, I had fun with the fog. It feels like Marty being like, I love old movies. Yeah. Let me have access just for a day or two, to the fricks and how long I get this? Has he ever been on the sound stage before doing that? Really? Probably not. Probably not. And he says it's a square screen. It's 130th Academy ratio. You know, the first scene is Tobacco Road. It's copied exactly. Obviously Wizard of Oz. Dueling the sun for the red list of the redness of the sky. A little east to Eden. A little gum with the wind. You know, he's got a lot of it was like a willing Cameron men's he's invaders from Mars. Of course. It's like, it was like one fifth of the budget. It cost $85,000, which was all ahead. So yeah. And he's like my first feature who's that knocking cost $35,000 for the whole movie. Right. Like definitely easy. Right. So yeah, it's like him for the first time getting to, you know, play in Hollywood. Yeah. And Warner Brothers watches the movie. And there one thing is like, can we fucking cut that weird crazy opening with all the red and Marty's like, take my name off the picture. Like, I'm going crazy. You know, like, I'm sure they were just like, oh, Jesus, who cares? Verson ran into Peter Brook, Danovich. And says I'm doing Alice with this guy Martin Scorsese. And he said, tell him not to move his camera so much. And Ellen says I did not relay that to Marty. He moves it quite a bit. It's funny how to move that camera. This feels like his most kinetic camera work until goodfellas. Like the movie in sequences has the coke energy in the way the camera moves into the conversation. Yes. Yeah. One idea he wanted is many women in authority on the picture as possible. Sandy Weintraub is the producer. Toby Rafflesson art director. Marshall Lucas is the editor. He wanted it to be as honest as possible. He wasn't trying to make up feminist track. But he wants this movie, you know, about women to be in front of women. And being like, you wanted to find out what women are like. No, you don't know. Yeah, trust Marsha's judgment implicitly. And he says, like, hey, you know, I know a stained glass guy. I was so lighted by the return of Marsha Lucas as a character for this podcast. I don't know how long it's been since you guys have gotten the Mars. I mean, she only edits what his first three or four, like, it's a taxi driver. It's tax driver the last time. I think so. It works with him because Tellma reappears. And then she goes on to star New York, New York is her last. Oh, okay. Yeah. And which was a famously easy movie to edit settled and to make yes, yes, everything about it. The first cut, okay, this is your thing. The assembly was three hours and 16 minutes. Tonic character stuck its thrown out. You know, like the husband, there's a lot more of him. You know, I mean, wisely, they produce him to about 10 minutes. It's like we have to get in the car. You don't need anything from him to find out what his deal is. That's the difference is, you know, Casavetti's was like, I want to make movies primarily out of the scenes that anyone else would cut out of a film. The scenes that are not the interesting part. the exciting part, but I want to show where the drama is in that. And it makes sense that Marty would want to shoot all of those things. And then ultimately whittle it down to that stuff helps inform the other stuff. Keep the most exciting moments and the major pop points. It helps that he dies within 15 minutes or less. I agree. Now I want to talk about I want to give you some news on the like some research on the ending, but let's talk about the movie first to get to the ending because it's an iconic ending, obviously, but she had a husband die. She goes to she goes to Phoenix. She starts being a lounge singer and she meets my handsome fellow. Have a cut out chill. She calls him a baby. One or a child kind of a baby face and he has kind of the moppy haircut like it makes him look younger. She's so adamant that he looks like he's underage and I'm like Harvey Kitell was born looking like a Vietnam day. He doesn't look like underage. He doesn't give you that. He's not a baby. He's called an Erica. Harvey Kitell. And it's that thing where you see actors when they're young now. So you're like, oh my god, they look so young. Yes. Like De Niro looks more like a baby at this point than Kitell. No question. Kitell just always had old man features. Yes. Even when he was young and his skin was smooth. But she shouldn't have trusted him. She, her first instinct was correct. Yes. Her first instinct is correct. He is well, he's married guy who's having an affair. I mean, it's actually not that complicated. He's also violent. Yeah. No, he's a jerk. He's a little bit like, he's big secret. It's just like, oh, I am cheating on my wife. He's sort of dark. But it's justified because he says his wife is crazy. She says she's crazy. For example, she shows up asking why I'm sleeping with another woman. How dare she? She's angry. I fuck other people. There's a lunatic. This calls for a switchblade. Yes. Breaking some glass of the door. And then he does the entire dresser. Yeah. It is funny that like Scorsese is now doing the break of you're no longer my leading man. And yet in this performance, he kind of gives everyone the like show real to be like, hey, and here's how you use Harvey Kitell. He does. And then they do. They wonder if Kitell resents it in a way of kind of like the way Marty shifted me to the supporting character, the villainous character that just became my type. Like because even when it's the lead type, he's a villainously. Is there a story? If you've done talk to driver yet, of like why it's not Kitell, why it's De Niro and the lead? Never even considered. And beyond that, that was a De Niro part. Beyond that sport was written to be black and very wisely. The studio was like, if the pimpe is black, the end of the story down this movie is a little charged. Right. Yeah. No, it was always De Niro. He was obsessed with De Niro. I mean, I think I think it truly was like he fell in love with him on Mean Streets and was like, this guy is the key. As does everybody who watches Mean Streets. Yeah. De Niro is unbelievable in that movie. Yeah. Yeah, he'd be good. He'd be good. He'd be good. He'd be good. He'd be good. Which is different than he'd be good. The award they gave to the exorcist. So good. I love you. At the end of that Kitell scene in the motel, where like they get out of there and the camera just stays for a little bit and you see all of the wreckage. It made me think about I haven't rewatch raging bull in a while, but like that big like domestic fight there. And like in that movie, you're with the guy. And this is like the woman's point of view of this like dumb bullshit. These men are obviously in raging bull. That stuff is very powerful. And it's very, but like this stuff gets me even more where she's just trying to keep it together for the kids. Yeah. After all that happens. This is so in person super power. Her fastball is like, has anyone better at quiet suffering than her? She has this fascinating balance of feeling really steely and strong and the kind of person who could say try silence. She's breaking you for decades. And also at all times, you're like, is she on the verge of breaking down in tears? I just wish you had recorded her sing try sounds so that I could then play it on the podcast when I need you to be try silent. You get the big red button in front of you. You can just play try silence to wrap up the show. She's just I feel like that's kind of where she wins the Oscar more than anything. Right. It's just how well she plays this sort of. And just like the betrayal of like, I fucking, you know, let someone in. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this like fragile situation. She seemed nice, you know, and then here I am again, like in front of my kid, like getting humiliated like this and like being scary, you know, but felt irresponsible to her was that she was starting an affair with a man who was so much younger. Like she was like, this is silly and maybe not like wise of me, what she realizes is I felt for the same type of guy again, which I think really devastates her. And it's so episodic because like you could make a version of this movie where she gets on the road and lands at the diner and the movies about the diner, but you need this sense of like, oh, no, like something in me is making these choices again. Yeah. And you need her to sort of abandon her dream again. She's just starting to be like, well, maybe I could take it. It's like, no, I need to get the fuck out of here. I need to just take a job as a waitress. I need to just keep my head above water for the kid. It's also so big, though, that it's not the movie's not Nashville. It's not I always want to be a country music star. And now I'm going to pursue my dream. It is I miss singing. I like that for a living. Right. Like once upon a time, I like that. I'm also happy if that paycheck is 50% serving beers and 50% singing one song a night. You know, that was also the moment right before she met her husband. Yeah. So it really is like she's like, I want to start right from where I left the last sort of free version of myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can we also shut up before we move on to the diner? I love the bar owner. And that hires her. Yes. Yes. The good. He just got some great funny moments. He has this one part I wrote down where she asks what's a song he likes. And he just starts saying lyrics to her. And she's like, I don't know that song. He's like, well, watch out. I mean, ironically, this is a movie made up of characters that feel like they could be sitcom archetypes. And yet all of them are played like real people. Right. It's like Casabetti's sitcom. Right. Yes. I mean, and then the sitcom, I I never really watched Alice. I've maybe seen it on TV once. But like, I assume it's more sitcom sitcom. The criteria and disc has all nine seasons on it, right? I'm going to find out. You have to play it backwards. Yeah, at least have the pilot throw it on there. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, the wins the water fight scene. I love the water fight scene. That's a classic like mother something where it's like, we're having fun. We've kind of, we've, it's kind of controlled. Yeah. Because boys are too excitable. I think it's after that. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it is a little, but like, you can mess with your kid in a way. Like, no, she's not hurting him. But like, they're both taking it too far because you kind of like get on your kid's level and do things like that. You are a parent of a of two sons. Sure. Katie Rich. I am also a parent of two sons, but they're different in a different part of life. You are a parent of sons closer to this, this age range. And like, you, I feel like can speak more to, right? Like what that is like? And what, what, maybe when, when can you say, what I might be in for? But like, like, to what this feels like an underrated mother son movie, underrated only in that it's not discussed all the time. Like it was rated well at the time. But like, it does feel like it kind of name nails that specific dynamic. You don't see like, that's a less discussed dynamic in movies, right? Mother, son. Like I remember, again, talking about like Charlie is a baby who is on this podcast. I remember having this baby and being like, why are they not movies about like the relationship between a parent and a baby? Because this is the most fascinating relationship I've ever had in my entire life. Sure. There's a reason for that. Like, I know of a way that they, it's better if they can talk. But it is totally nailed it. There's no reason to make any other commentary on it. It is just a specific thing of like, I made this person. I am responsible for this person. And but like, they make, they turn you into a kid again in some weird way. They make you think about things like they say the weirdest stuff and you kind of just have to roll with it. They tell terrible jokes in that way. And like, the two of them against the world. Like and David, you may have this feeling if you're just like, even without your wife, you're just with your kids. And you're like, all right. It's just us. We got to figure this out. Like, you're we're at about me got to get through the subway or down the street. And this is such a heightened version of that where it's like, I got you under my arm and we're going to make our way through the world. And it's really moving the way that it gets into the weirdness of it. But also has that kind of bedrock we're in we're in this together part of it. I want to say a couple things. First of all, Lane Bradbury is the actress who plays Rita, whose kite tells wife who I think is incredibly good. His own one extended scene. Yeah. It's just a smart decision to not have it be the like she comes storming in who's the harpy who's sleeping with my wife. So sad. She's so sad and she's so empathetic and she's like, I'm trying to warn you. I'm trying to save you. Yeah. Even more than I mad at him and I'm trying to catch him. Yeah. She also has a son. Yes. Who has some kind of health issue. Yeah. And he's clearly just doesn't want to deal with the extra difficulty of that burden of that responsibility and Ellen burst on that scene where she is immediately. It's just like, oh yeah, okay. Yes. We have to have this conversation. She's not trying to get out of it. She's not trying to make any excuses. She like takes responsibility instantly. The water fight scene is basically right after her first day at the diner. I think and it's it you feel that it's her trying so hard to make her son's life fun again. Because there's been so much upheaval and it just comes that point where she's just like, okay, right. It's like you got to sit down at the diner and be bored. I don't care if you're bored. Yeah. Feeling of like, not just I want to console him emotionally, but just like, this has all been so dramatic that I can't even pretend it's normal. So what if instead I act like a little kid for like one night. I get to his level a little bit more. And at least it's just kind of fun. Just because people have probably been yelling at the podcast. I didn't make this connection. Basically, the only other movie that Alfred Lutter was in is Bad News Bears. Oh, sure. Where he plays the brainy nerd and that and the first sequel. Good. Yeah. You know, know it's great. The bad news bears. Yeah, we do know what else saying bad news. As a term baseball there we go. So baseball the cracker of that. I I talk to the bad idea like I don't remember if this comes before after the water But there's like hit the kid in the hotel room alone where he's like sitting to and just from the television and watching some old movie I don't I didn't recognize it. I don't know if you guys did I could quite but that felt like spurs as you self-insert Watching old movies by himself. Yeah, except this kid doesn't have asthma So he can go out and throw with Tony Foster. Yes, I feel like he's watching though something where it has A singer that's kind of in the tradition of what his mom is a Betty Grable movie called Kony Island and right and Who's all Betty Grable movies? That's the kind of music. Of course as he was thinking of when she's like I wish I was a singer Yeah, yeah, cool But yes, she gets a mouse diner and we established what will be one of the greatest ensembles and sitcoms And it is immediately like oh, yeah, I want to hang out here like That is so fucking good. She's so great is money in the god damn bank. I swear to god Like because like she got the oscanon for this and you watch the movie and you're like, huh? Like she doesn't have a huge role like funny that she snuck in but then you just think about her and you're like She's just so great every second. She's not it's great And she's the authenticity of the character just so perfectly and it's sort of like a star is born performance Just like I just love watching this person 100% and I like that they don't get along Yeah, she's pretty tough with her at first. Yeah, yeah Making comments about her body in front of everyone, but then they have that scene where She freaks out when the short-order cook or whatever asked her's where's Vera and her line is She went in the hogsator and the like explosion of the what is it the catch up all over her apron right the great Valerie curtain Vera These sort of the quieter. She's so funny. I mean the very end of the movie when they're in the bathroom talking and they just keeps Can I back to Vera like trying to like handle all the places she's like crying what people are throwing now gets it or it's amazing because into Jane she's of course Um, but the scene where they're finally sort of endeared to each other and Diane Ladd starts giving her the tips and here's how you get good tips and then it turns into them like Sunday thing Oh, yeah, it goes from this moment of just like reflection and respect to just like actually let's try to get some color Well, and it's like female friendship again And it made me think about Scorsese like age of innocence or silence for these other movies where he's like What is this world? How can I figure out how this works and it is kind of him being like? What's it like to be a woman with a friend and that curiosity drives it and makes it feel so true in the process? Yeah, yeah, and he and he hired good people you surround himself with good people. Yeah, you guys have working a diner No, did you ever work in a diner David? No, just like seems like such a cool You know like Oh I mean, it feels more stressful but like when I say cool I don't mean like cool to do but just like it's like having like Apple let's you know stars It's a bad Ask them being like a line cook or a fucking diner waiter the scariest people I ever gonna meet in your life I went to my friend Caitlyn's wedding last weekend and humble friend. Thank you a co-host of his different My my not secret podcast about baseball that you should definitely subscribe to and we drove through Pennsylvania the great state and we stopped at a diner in Scranton that had Real Alice doesn't live here anymore vibes where we walked in Because we're hungry and it's like we're in Russia. You know, we're trying to use a seven-hour drive and we walk in and we're like Oh, fuck should we turn around because the vibes were bad in what way the one that was kind of just known around I mean there are customers but there's no waiters around And then we see one waitress and she has just like the worst like scowl on her face We're just like oh boy, and we're like hey, yeah, and she's like Yeah, and we're like okay, and we like sit down and then like we are served fantastic food Like the food rocked like an exceptional BLT and girl cheese sandwich, right? They don't need to woo you They got great food and then I we realized like oh, there's some drama happening where the waitress I think just maybe got in a fight with another customer and then maybe that chewed out by a boss And now she's complaining to somebody else about, you know, how fuck this play, you know what I mean? And then when she like gave us her check we were like a food is really great. And she's just like You know that actually means a lot to hear it and we're like oh my god You made her die And that's what it's like and Alice doesn't live here anymore. What's going on with all these people? They're just so intense and like there's such this is Every girl is around right? Yeah, I know we started with it But you go in that waffle house because you see the whole kitchen is right there in front of you And you're just you sit there long and if you can figure out everybody's own In waffle house even more intense causes 24 hours. So you have to be like you're like a fucking maybe seal in there If you're like the night shift Everything the waffle house storm warning things. Yeah, it's totally real right David Yeah, the waffle house the waffle house index where if the waffle house close Is some waffle house that closes its orange is like the national Mother Service or FEMA or whatever branch of the government still has a serious threat right? If waffle house has to be like Eliminated menu today. They will they will yeah, if waffle house is closed You better get FEMA in there immediately Like they don't even take their notes from the government the government goes like oh, fuck that waffle house Yeah, because those people are they have seen absolutely Yeah, you know the preco, but you guys like we're driving a Florida Yeah, there's playing the David up in your kids summer 2020 kept how he kept slipping and having another I still happen through everybody in the car coming down the closest waffle house at least last to check She's an Alan town pencil. Yeah, I lived here. I remember looking it up at some point Because I'm so deeply like a two hour drive it's pretty far I think you might be mad if you drove two hours to waffle house It's one of those things where it's like I need something that's open now and uh when you're a teenager is somewhere You can go and that is where they're there. It's near Alan town. I've never had a waffle house meal nothing sweet my expectations With sky high expectations and every time. I mean just delivers. I like the waffles too to be clear obviously the hash browns or whatever One talks about but I have the hash brown bowl now where you can get like a hash brown with cheese and an egg on top of it This isn't coming. It's really good. It's good. I don't know if I need any new fangled Editions, there's been there probably for 15 years Oh, yeah, whippersnappers. Uh-huh. You can't change these things on me Chris opposition doesn't answer the movie until like an hour and 15 minutes He does not if you saw the poster and we're like can't wait to see Chris K Right guy, you know, especially since like we've already had a she wants to be a musician arc Yes, and he didn't appear for that Yes, and then he's just like, you know, what's his name David? Hey, it's my name. Hey, uh, he's a he's one of the guys He's a customer. He's divorced. He's a ranger. Mm-hmm. Got a farm. Mm-hmm. Please a little guitar. Yeah He's that kid you don't miss a little beer. He's got some low in locks Might want to run your fingers room. He does But he shows up around the same time that she finally kind of gets her standing within males. I mean, yeah, damn like Harvey Kitell fucks her up so bad that she won't fuck Chris Christofferson right away like she should be fucking him right away And Kitell should be on this side, but she's got to learn how to have some restraint life is tough. Yeah, life is tough However, he is he does spank kids and she does Mad at him as saying you're the kind of guy who hits kids and then watching this now. You're like, yeah I guess that doesn't feel shocking to me. I guess she can still mad at him about it Like that wasn't a bank her kid. I guess that's what it is. It's bad. I think he wants And when he comes back to her you can't I was waiting for him to be like, Oh, and yeah, I shouldn't have hit your kid and he doesn't do that He doesn't do that. Yeah, yeah, it's not a sticking point for me clear. I'm not pro-spanking kids I just feel like in the 70s plenty more kids were getting spanked I mean I assume but then the extent of which she was mad at him for it like does he apologize enough for that for taking back everything so much together and like the last thing that poor kids Yeah needs is someone laying hands on him exactly like he's witnessed violence He's just been in that you know, she understands he was being a jerk in that team a christian 12-year-old like the foulest mouth. We should also call out that he has been Sneaking around with Jody Foster drinking wine. Oh, yeah, drinking wine shoplifting learning about grown-up stuff Being bad. Jody Foster has a foolproof plan for a shoplifting from that guitar store though. Oh, he's a big injury That's the class move. Oh, yeah, creative distraction. Uh-huh. Someone else grabs the thing shoves it down their pants. Yeah, been there Done that are you more the kid or are you Jody Foster? Like of these kids who were you relating to more? Interesting. What does she say to the cops and she leaves the police station like she say like suck it pigs or something? I think so. It's so good. She's so good. She's pretty cool She's bad. Yeah, I was a little bit of the bad influence at times. Okay, but then also sometimes the one fault Yeah, that's an exchange. Yeah. Yeah Um Yeah, what happens? I mean, I mean, what they hang out as ranch. Yeah, once the uh the spanking happens Uh, we're pretty close to the resolve of the movie Yeah, you get the great scene with them in the bathroom or Diane lad. Like did you mad at them? It sounds like you love them and she's crying and they're laughing and it's perfect She doesn't want to fall into the same thing again. Yeah, why would she? And it's she's jumping at the first trigger But ultimately the fact that this man is willing to apologize. That is christ christmas He is Chris Christophers and your face keeps turning bright red. What's going on on your screen? Mm-hmm. You don't see turning bright red? Yes. There was something I do. I do have a readers digest story about the Titan implosion, which happened three years ago. Rest in peace to all those beautiful people open. And they're my, I think it was a weird auto. Very is very relevant. It looks like a muffler storm warning is happening on David's face. Jodie Foster says when she exits the police station so long suckers. Yeah. Very the class. She's got kind of a road runner energy to her. Yeah. Oh, God, all of her anywhere. Remember when that fucking thing, I feel, of course, it feels like the Titanium sub. Yeah. Just three years ago. I just never forget what they're like. I think a thing's lost down there. And I'm like, oh, oh, what is it? And they're like, I'll check it out. It's just a kind of metal tube a guy threw together. It's got like a PlayStation fraud. I'm like, this was being sent down regular. And it was like one guy in there alone. No, like 10 rich people. But there would be those cartoons where it was like, you know, five little stick figures inside. And you're just like, what is that? You sound a little like James Cameron who's spent a lot of time on television. They're being like, I knew it wasn't going to work. I kind of told you that thing was going to explode. The first thing I wore was like, I need that blew up. Fuck them. Would you stay with a man who spanked your children without permission? It is something I feel very strongly about. I think it would really upset me. But I mean, I don't live in 1973. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I'm not pro-spanking now. It made me think about how, I don't know if he experienced this too, David. It's like other kids are much more annoying to me than my own. Like I have a much higher threshold for like what I can put up for my kids. And like, you're around like your kids friends. You're just like, I can't do this right now. But. Yeah, no, I mean, right. Hard not to be like judgy. Or just like, like my tolerance has reached a limit. Like I cannot listen to your jokes anymore. You don't belong to me. I don't have to do this. So I guess Chris Christensen being like, I'll listen to this kid's bad jokes. Cause he gets, do you guys understand the joke that he's trying to tell about the nuts? I do not. I can't figure it out. I really pissed me off. Honestly, even in the movie, I was like, fuck off. It makes no sense. Cause he tells it to Chris Christensen too, who's doing the same thing and being like, hmm, I'm really doing my best here. I mean, I feel like the joke is that, that, you know, the nuts are balls. And like, there's kind of like a dirty joke. You sound like the kid explaining it. But it's never quite solved. And they like the adults keep kind of like interrupting him to give sort of what they think is the punchline. I think is they wanted to shut up. And so that ruins it only ever more. He's, you know, he's a little annoying, but I ain't no spanking. You know, you don't want to associate discipline with violent. Would you go live on that ranch, though? He's growing like alpha, I think or look, okay. I don't want to live your city boy. You don't want to live on ranch. Well, I'm just saying, like, if I wanted to live in the countryside, my guess is I would want a more verdant and to moisten a part of the world. I'm not really a dry heat guy. Not what I grew up with. It's not really what I'm used to. I think I'd probably need a steam room now, Sonna. Yeah. Oh, you know, I love us. I know. I know. Yeah. Exactly. Are you bad? Would you go live on that ranch? I love to ride a dang horse. Yeah, you love the horse. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, are you built for Phoenix? Like, what do you think of Arizona? I'm like, no, getting out there. Gacked. I couldn't do it. No, I've actually never been to the desert. What is that? Is that a, is that a goal we could make for you? Oh, right. Because I mean, you know, it's not that far. You start like two hours out and you're in the desert. And I, as like an East Coaster, I have the same thing where you get out there, like, God, those mountains are like a hundred miles away. How is this possible? Right. Now, Griffin, I'm going to, I'm not wondering what I want to speak for you, but I'm also going to assume like the Arizona desert, maybe not your purpose. You're not moving to that ranch for the Christmas. What about a visit? I did. I did a couple of coffee, you know, I've been to Arizona. I did a short film in Albuquerque a couple of years ago. Yeah, I remember. And my body, almost retired. You got off the plane. Your body was like, I'm going to sit this one out. You're going to figure it out by yourself. Basically incompatible. We shot a, we were supposed to shoot thing. It was like a survivalist post apocalyptic thing. And I'm supposed to be someone who's not well-suited for that. And even then, we shot a thing at the top of a mountain, very high altitude. And my eyes were just like, Oh, by the way, we're not going to open. I couldn't stop crying. And I couldn't keep my eyes open. And we had to shoot around it. And they put me in a car and put the car seat all the way back. And then like poured a bunch of water on a towel. And I just lay there with a wet towel over my eyes for like two hours. We got a voice in this guy's a reset. A little bit. That's pretty good. A little bit. Wow. There was like a dust storm. Let's keep you in the Northeast. Yeah. I would think that Scorsese would be in the same way. I think he found it. I think he found it. But I think he found it very interesting. It's just an alien landscape. And film wise, it was exciting for him to have this alien land. He goes back for killers of the flower moon 40 years later. And I speak direct it from within a plastic bubble. I sort of assume that probably for both of us. The ending is very, very like great, great cinema. Because it's got this sort of touch of ambiguity to it. It's got this kind of earthy naturalism to it. The very end with them walking down the street. And just him coming back for not now. It's written as more of a straightforward happy ending big Gatmer versus just like I don't want it to have that kind of a cut and dry ending. Like why does she have to end up with a man? So you know, she insists on rewrites. And Warner Brothers is like we're not fucking doing an unhappy ending. Like they're like we had just on scarecrow. Yeah. Paul Mizersky, right? No, it's neither. It's it's a big girl rice. Is that who it is? No, come on. I'm so annoyed by this. Jerry Shasper. There we go. It only took seven tries. Fucking obviously, Jerry Shasper, obviously embarrassing thing for me to say. He's like and scare cries is happy ending. And that made no fucking money. We're not doing an unhappy ending again. And Ellen versus like I'm not saying unhappy end. I'm just saying does she need to end up with a man? Like are you telling me she doesn't end up with a man isn't unhappy ending? Everything can't be perfect at the end. And he's like what I'm telling you is she doesn't end up with a man we're not making the movie. Wow. It's the one time they kind of push back in terms of like sorry. And so they kind of compromise on this like she sort of says maybe we'll get back, you know, like it's a little more ambiguous, right? They'll try. It's a pretty good ending. I can't deny, you know, I think the kiss in the diner and everyone's clapping and like you get the energy of that scene. Even leading up to that when they're in the bathroom. Oh god. Yeah. That is why I think one of the best scenes. Yeah. And like that's more of the emphasis than the one with Chris Jefferson almost. So they may that's bursting kind of getting what she wants is that friendship is so important. The way she puts it is Chris improvises, okay, come on, I'll take you in a Monterey. And like it's not about staying on the ranch or you know, like it's more of a free exchange. The man is willing to support the woman in her aspirations. He's making a sacrifice exactly. He's sort of releasing me from the bondage of the old way of thinking. Thank God for Chris. He was smart and aware. You know, so she's like, she's pretty happy with how it goes. Of course, as he's still acknowledged is like, yeah, it's a little pat that like she gets the handsome man at the end, but I think we do a good job suggesting like it's still probably going to be kind of stormy like it's not like Chris Jefferson's like, I'll chill out. It does feel like this scene. I know this vampire hunter. Let's go find him. It does feel like the other patrons applauding and getting roped up in him having to make the big apology in the front of everybody feels like the scene that gives them the codex to be able to make a sitcom. Yeah, true. It's the one scene where it's like the diner is acting like one organism. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, a large earn in the background as they smile, shout-out eating ice cream. Yeah, according to Wikipedia, I think I spotted her. She's like right behind Ellen Berson, I think. Because of course, daughter of Diane Ladd, this is her first on-screen appearance. She's got huge glasses. Yes. Oh, yes. Wow. She's so cute. Roderie Bert says the movie's been both attacked. Wait, wait, we should talk about the actual action in the movie. The actual ending, of course, is it's what saves the movie for me. Yes. Is that if it ended on everyone applauding her and Chris Jefferson, then that's too. That's too right. Yeah, but it goes back to the kid. It goes back to her relationship with her son. Yeah, I'm laughing because I'm washing the bathroom scene and they're cutting back to the other Vera. Oh my God. So funny. Everyone's getting into a fight and there's so many chaos and so funny. Tommy saying, mom, I can't breathe is also improvised and is very sweet. That's good. You know, like that's because she truly was. Yeah, it's good to squeeze into that. Yeah, but and they're rocking on that like kind of shitty street and there's the sign in front of them that says Monterey. Like that's the version of what they're heading toward. But they said, live there. Look at all that fish. I've got a big aquarium. Oh, it's Monterey. Yeah. Oh, sure. Monterey in California. It's like South of San Francisco. Like, isn't that where big little lice is set? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And everything were well for those guys. If you're not that rich, you might try not to find for you. Where are Adam Scott's in that? Yeah, it's like, you know, all this, you know, insane drama is hanging happening. He's like, this sucks. Yeah, he's like, and she's like, I'm going crazy about the school board. And he's like, okay, this is a one and done, right? Limited series, no second season. Did he come back for the second season? It's all kind of vanished from my brain in that show. Oh, yeah. Who is Dern's husband? Because stars guard's obviously married to Nicole Kidman. And Shaleen doesn't have a husband. No, but she's a mother for somebody in the second season. But Dern definitely has a husband. She tells someone I will not not be rich, which She's Renata at Jeffrey Nordling. Oh, of course, the great, yes, the great Nordling. And then everyone's just kind of scared of Zoe Kravitz. Yeah, well, she's forgotten about her, but she's married to some guy too. She married to someone's ex. Exactly. She made a Reese's ex. Yeah, it's, it's Reese's ex. Yeah. Okay. And you know, there's a, if you, if you really pay attention, there's a liar to being a big one. They could be both, and they could be both at the same time. Roger Ebert. Mm-hmm. It's just interesting to hear this movie discussed at the time. This movie's been attacked and defended on feminist grounds. Yeah. It sounds like he's on film for it. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, oh, wait, into the discourse. Where's Alice? Doesn't live here anymore. Where are they doing all this fighting just in the village voice? It's like, where is it happening? Yeah, it's fascinating to consider the way there was discourse at a time where only 20 people had a platform of any size. So much more peaceful. I mean, still annoying, probably, but people would write letters into the newspaper and be like, I disagree with that review. Are going out to Lincoln Center, probably. It's pretty good, Ebert here, though. I think it belongs somewhere outside ideology. Maybe in the area of contemporary myth and romance. You know, the movie seems less banalist than it does about the speculations and daydreams of a lot of women her age who identify with liberation of other women but are unsure on the subject of themselves. I think it's a great way of putting it. Pauline Kale. Did she have the opinion on this? She usually was just kind of like, oh, I don't know. It's all right, three stars. Ben, when David said Pauline Kale, can we edit in like a thunder clap? Someone playing the organ. One of the rare films that genuinely deserves to be called controversial. Again, this is Alice doesn't live here anymore. It's not fucking cannibal holocaust. I think people will really fight about it. It's a story of a woman who has a second chance thrust on her. She knows enough not to make the same mistake again, but she's insured much else. Neither is the movie. Pauline in for the kill after setting up what seems like a nice review. Oh boy. People responded to this. Like it was Lady Ghostbusters where they're really trying to push on us. She's basically like the movie is totally enjoyable and funny and absorbing. I just don't think it has like a take on its big issue. So why did she think it deserves to be controversial? I don't know. Molly Haskell, the great film critic and obviously is a leading voice in feminist film criticism and all that sort of has the same problem of like they're making a women's picture and consciously and I think right he's sort of playing ironic tribute and it didn't quite feel authentic enough for me. That makes sense for like a critic at the time watching this movie and being especially given the opening of it being like this is a little too cute for me. I think Marty, you know, doesn't quite know what he's playing with here or whatever. Now you watch this movie and you're like, my god, if only Hollywood made movies like this anymore. And like what a refreshing thing that Scorsese made something like this early in his career with a studio with a fucking movie star that won Oscars. Like that's fantastic. At the time they're basically just kind of like, I don't know. Seems like a bunch of bullshit to me like good for them. That's my little Pablo. They could fight about it back. Now we're just kind of like take me to the back rooms. Yeah. We get so many of the people the worst takes on Scorsese being like, he makes these movies that are about men. He has any understanding of it. And if you just did someone have to be like, no, this guy made this with the exact amount of curiosity about everything else. Like it's always been there. I think it's a very good film. It is not like my favorite Mark Scorsese movie. I'm not sure I would put it in his top 10. I'm not sure where I put it though. I have it. I probably haven't like his top, you know, 20. He's made a lot of good fucking movies. I think when I did my like letterbox ranking after watching all the miles, like 15 of them are five star masterpieces. It's really hard to rank them in that. It's kind of a day by day thing. Could I share a quote from a film review in the Times that New York, who is it by Vincent Canbie? Okay. All right. Alice doesn't live here anymore has the distinct advantage over most films by growing on you, by getting better and better as it goes along until at the end, you look back over it with some of the wonder and pleasure with which you might suddenly acknowledge an unexpected friendship. That was such a solid. Yeah, that's really good. Oh, summary. The die of a lot of movies. And Canbie was not in the Haskell, Kale, like, you know, where he's like, like, he's a down the line movie critic of like, this is a good experience. Like, you're going to have a good time watching this. But also him making this between mean streets and taxi driver, which is just like sad and violent and intense is like exactly the tax driver coming after this. You also just have to think about a lot of people have careers that start out with things like taxi driver and who's that knocking at my door or excuse me mean streets and who's that knocking at my door. And then it's like, great, you made your little personal movie. You've shown us that you know how to make a movie on a technical level. Now you're in the studio system. You have to imagine that people could have assumed is he just going to be a guy who hops from genre to genre and isn't making deeply personal films anymore. And instead, after this, every movie he makes feels almost every movie he makes feels very personal even when it is a genre exercise. Are you calling mean streets the guarantor or is this the guarantor that gets taxi drivers for me? It's kind of a double. It's like the two pieces helps. It helps to have made a movie that succeeded. It made money. Like, I don't think anyone's watching this being like, I think he's already working on taxi driver in some sense. And like the taxi driver is the blank track director. The first one for sure. Sure. Sure. They mean, yeah, I don't know. We were kind of, we were kind of, we were kind of. New York New York is the blank. That's the real blank. That's true. Tax driver is more the guarantor. Like taxi driver is not an expensive movie. Yeah. And that's the movie where he's fighting every minute to get anything through. It's just a crazy movie. Yeah, it is. But New York New York is more him being like, I want a lot of money to make something that is. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, we think you can make that work. Of course, while he's making it, he's like, I think everyone's going to like it. Yeah, which is the crazy part. Was he doing any drugs at the time that would have clouded his judgment? Anything about that? Yeah. And his marriage was going very well, right? We can see on screen. It has a great view of relations. Absolutely. A fascinating movie. We almost had you do that. I know. And I got really excited about it. And it's, it's a tough movie. I don't love it. The way that I love Alice doesn't live here anymore. I'm so glad to get to talk about this. But New York New York is like such a rich text. I feel like I'm similar to you in that I really like wrestling with it. And the stuff in it that works, I think, is like exceptional. Oh, it's, it's a fascinating, like, it's what you guys are saying. It's a, well, I think if you're out here being like that is one of his best movies, I think even Marty would kind of be like, are you sure about that? Like that movie is, movie is flawed. But it's the fascinating. The soundstage opener of this lead you directly to. Oh, correct. He's like, give me more of those, you know, backdrops painted. I'm ready. And you know, there's a, there's a mean boyfriend or two in that film. There is in fact one major, one particular thinking of kind of worst boyfriend in the history movie. I can't wait for you guys to, because you got to your scusese rankings, but ranking like Danero as the guy who will ruin your life like in the end of spurs as he, I mean, if you're telling there to if you want to between the two of them, they have a lot. Just so much. This is a good question. Who is the, like, which Danero is them is the best dating option in this first season? In the end, I say, is he canon? I'm like, is it Irishman guy? Well, I was going to say, if I'm going to fight anyone, I want to fight back guy because he can't even come near you. He's going to hell of a kid. Yeah, if you're air, if you're air, you're like, oh, no. He's kicking. I went on Johnny boy from meanster. Yeah, Johnny, he's trying hard. You can only date him if you're in your early 20s. Yeah. Yeah. Even Casino, like, and kind of just sneak on by. I'm not a coke like Sharon Stone does that really get out. You can't stay with him for too long. Yeah, but I feel like if I'm with him in Casino, I'm just kind of like, I get a hotel room fine. I'll leave you alone, like, whatever. I don't know. This is your version of Ben's, this movie would end with me owning an island. You're busy. You're stressed out. I don't think it ends well. I think bottom is Cape Fear. You got to get a beer at the bottom. I want to fur off the driver though. Do you think Max Katie, like, picks up some women who he doesn't aren't reconnected to someone who he wants to fuck with and like has a good time and then moves on? You're like getting the early on. She's like, she's part of the whole scheme though. Like, if she's like, not connected to that, I think it's a bad sign. It's a real bad sign. It's possible. But I don't think you want to play those on. He's just funny that Travis Bickle might not be bottom because of Max. Travis Bickle's more attractive than Robert Pumpkin. He's the looker. So you have to put him above. No, no, no. He's not going to shoot anyone probably. Probably. What would text you? Are we talking to shoot someone? He commits crimes. He has a gun. Are we throwing a killer to the flower moon? Like, that's one of those things. He's like, pick, but not the worst. This is what I'm saying. That guy ends up being like top three and he commits genocide. He does. But he's got to, he's got a, he's got a great car, great car, great goggles, driving gloves. What more do you need in a man? I think Irishman is near the top. And Anna Pakman literally doesn't even want to speak to him. I think by default, that's number one. What about him? I wonder what he's always probably like, you know, I killed Jimmy Hoffman is like, sure, you killed. So where's my claim? Jimmy Hoffman on the other hand, take him home. Yeah. Well, it wouldn't. Yeah. I cannot wait to do Irishman bits. That was my favorite day. He's like on Twitter, I would post they were him saying they wouldn't dare. Anytime I was like, take out my gd promise. this is like a mad cat satire for his name. I'm like, oh, he wouldn't do that. Tyka, they wouldn't do, wouldn't let him do that. Whereas my response when I see a headline like that, it is what it is. He's one of those, he's what it is, this one. Ed movie rocks, that movie is the best. It's for cool kids. It's so good. I mean, this Atari series, is you guys being like, you know, this movie? Like, are you good? Yeah, let's do the box office. And this film came out in December 9th, 1974, a little Christmas treat for you. Ah, under the tree. Number one of the box office is a film that has been out for, I want to say, conservatively five months. And it's doing quite well at the box office, which is maybe speaking to some cultural issues in our country at the time. It's about a guy who something very bad happens to a member of his family. Death wish. It's been out for five months. Yeah, and it is a five month sensation. Wow. You know, and some people might be like, well, that was terrible and I need to process this motion. He's like, where's my, and he does it so well that other people come to him and they're like, can you solve my family ship? Sure. Why not? Death wish Charles Bronson and Michael winner film. Yes, death wish. Anyone ever seen? I've seen it. I've never seen the death wishes. It's like a bomber. The first one is like a pretty effective movie. Like, you definitely get it. And it's even movies that are about how New York is like a fucking crime soaked hell hole in the 70s. You watch them now and you're like, New York City baby. It's great to see your on screen. The second one is the one that's like unbelievably nasty. I believe the second one is where they're just kind of like, okay, so what worked about this is just like violence and listen. Right. Yeah, I have not obviously seen like death wish for the crack down, which funny to think that by four, he's like, I think it's some sort of crack down. I've been taking it to ease time to expand outside of my problems. What's this episode? I know I'm going to him. It's fixed to fix Emmett. He's on like the Phyllis overs. That's good. All right. Number two is a disaster movie. A side adventure. Nope. Is towering and for now, keep going. Earthquake. Earthquake. There we go. Is that and that's your 40x, right? It wasn't called Shaco Ramma, but it was called something. It was called Sensorown. Sensorown. Then you're. It was earthquake. Did you do the earthquake ride at Old Spleen versus Studios? Yeah. I can't remember if it's that they put motors under the seats or they put speakers under the seat. I think it was. It was speakers. I think they would like blast like basically subwoofers to make your seat vibrate a little bit. It's a little like the Dolby theaters now. Right. It was like a debauch. It's sort of like a part of the deal be where you're like, the sound is so loud. The chair shakes rather than the movie is synced up to shake in a specific way. Yeah. And it's not like built on some gimbal. No. There's no game for it. It's gimbals. It's gimbals. This is some gimbals. It's a macy's. No gimbals. No gimbals. Number three, the box office is a sequel to a sort of death wish ask kind of like shock hit. It's not Billy Jack is a fucking is Billy Jack. Which one is it? The second goes to Washington. No. He's yet to go to Washington. Billy Jack did eventually go to Washington. That was a thing. I told them to clean up their act like drain that swamp. The return of Billy Jack. It's called the trial of the pile. Of course, they put him on trial. Oh, no, I'm so sorry. The second film is called Billy Jack, but I'm forgetting that the first film is called The Born Losers and that actually introduces Billy, but he's not the main character. No, I think Billy Jack, the 1971 film was the surprise, like, you know, essentially an indie film. And I think there is in a Washington, I was thinking of the trial of Billy Jack. That's what I was. No, there definitely is. But there is. Is that the full? No, Billy Jack goes to Washington. Okay. Okay. So forth. Yeah. He cleaned it up. And then the return of Billy Jack, which was not released. Yes. I know this. In which she takes on child pornographers. And I guess they were kind of just like, let's. Let's call it. What's there also some death involved in that production? Maybe. Let's see. I want to say it was like also not completed for some reason. It was not completed. 17 minutes were filmed. Oh, good. You suffered a head injury, making it. And they ran out of money. Yeah. So no one died. But, you know, uh, so that's number three of the box office. We've threatened to do the Billy Jacks on Patreon. Let's do it. Let's jack it up. Do that as in the death wishes. All together. Yeah. That sounds like a bomber. Anti-woke winter. Number four is a sports film. Mm hmm. Kind of one of the original sort of sports comedies. And, you know, as bad news bears has come around the corner. It's not, uh, well, it's not slap shot. No. And worse than slap shot. It's not long as yard in fact, it is burnt Reynolds in the, the longest yard. It's a ruddy picture. Um, Robert Aldrich is the longest yard ever seen it. No, but he wasn't the real artist behind it. The greatest film producer who ever lived the greatest man as ruddy as portrayed by a monster. Hey. I got an idea for an offer in the paramount. It is making the offer ever says in 2026. This is more. Will be making off references on his death. It's the best TV show that's ever happened. It's also incredible. And it's never been more relevant because Michael is the most offer coded movie that has ever existed with miles teller. Miles Teller basically reprising his performance. Miles Teller as al ruddy as John Bronca. I just saw a movie that Miles Teller is good in. And it's one of those things where you're like, right, like this. He just needs, well, you know, good director. He needs a character to work with here. Like, he's not the fool that I take him for these days all the time. Well, because like a businessman will develop a movie about how good of a businessman he was and then a higher miles teller and be like, where is that? It's crazier than that. A businessman will make a movie about the Godfather and be like, and the person who should get the most credit is me, not Princess Fort Coppola, you know, Al Pacino. A much smaller part. But Michael has major tones of that of life, which he's like, I was the one you thought about. And Bronca's going to save him, right. The offer, of course, has the greatest screen read and credit of all time, which is based on the experiences of al ruddy making the Godfather. So I'm based on a fucking book. It's based on a couple conversations. He sat down and dictated it. That's all you need. I don't even know if he dictated it number five of the box office is a film that I wish featured characters like Gail, John Lee, this, okay, is this lady Street Fighter or is the original Street Fighter? It is a film, simply a Japanese martial arts film called something, starting the Great Sonny Chua. Yes. Called the Street Fighter. I believe I recently bought the Shao Factory box set of this. Sounds like something you'll get to that one in 2029 or whatever. Yeah, sure. Let's hope so. It's just so funny with like the Radiance, you know, drop comes, and it's like this just accuses a film. And I'm like, I'll just get it. I don't even need to tell me. And I'm like, how many fucking you coupes of films do I have on like, you know, waiting to be watched at this point, the addiction Katie? You're not in a blue ray addiction. No. Do you have a disc player? Yeah. I've got, I've got a disc that I've collected over various times, like getting them through press stuff mostly. But no, you guys in your physical media thing, I don't, don't clue. I know. Okay. I know I wasn't looking at you. I'm just looking. That's normal. He doesn't have any physical media. No, he hates it. Well, I do. Yeah. There we go. But it's vinyl. You, you already did this with the vinyl. I feel like they're, yeah, hands in the pocket. Unfortunately, I am starting to get into our books, which are, you know, they're really small, right? Yeah. Yeah. And like, for all one in your tote bag, you run around town, easy to store. You should get into like art novellas, where it's just like two paintings. Number six at the box office is a film. I know you're very fond of Griffin, the little prince. It is a movie I love. Have you ever seen the Stanley Dome and Little Prince? No, I'm not. With, of course, Bob Fossick. It's one of the Wallace movies ever made. And Bob Fossick plays the snake in it. And he creates Michael Jackson's persona. Oh, wait a minute. He did that in so many. The way he dances. Yeah. But this, he's dressed like head to toe black with like a jazzy glow. He's got the hat and the white socks and he. I think I've seen clips of this because he walks. Yeah. He's a famous, like his dancing in it is, is remembered. I think I have something else. Jean Balder plays the Fox. He would make my best supporting actor ballot this year. He's unfucking believable in that movie. I love how long Stanley Dome and his career was. Like I was making movies for decades. Yeah. Yeah. Do Dome and one of these days. Oh my gosh. That's a lot. Yeah. There's maybe there's a way to sort of hack it to. I don't know. Number seven is one of my favorite films of all time. They're taking a pillow. One, two, three. Yeah. To get to New York. Number eight is Airport 1975, which is what is that the second one? Wait. So it came out seven more. But it's called. Yeah. For the excitement of tomorrow, like new car models, Blues Brothers 2000 came out in 1998. Obviously. The call. Yeah. Obviously, which is Charlton, Heston, Karen Black, George Kane, whatever, I'm not knowing people are in that. Number nine, a reissue, Cabaret. Mmm. We love it. So they revert. That's what, like two years after it. But, you know, there's no fucking TV spec if a movie was hit at that scale, they would re-release it every year. You know, I would love to see in theaters right this second, Cabaret. Sounds great. Uh, number five, number 10 is a movie called Law and Disorder. I have to look it up. I don't know. There's so many like visual anties. Carol O'Connor, Ernest Borgnein. Oh. Oh. Oh. And you're telling me there's law and a disorder in this one. And you're telling me their shirts are tucked in properly, right? the rumpled sleeves all the way down. I'm feeling a little anxious about this one. Let me run the plot here by you in the crime infested, New York City of the 70s, two residents and friends played by, or Carol O'Connor and Ernest Borgnein. So, you know, grumpy barrel, the shaped white guys, decide to join the auxiliary wing of the New York City police department to help take back their neighborhood from criminals. Do you think they do that in a responsible way? Vincent can be called it a gentle. Oh, okay, okay. Sometimes disruptively funny movie. Wow. This is all important practice for taxi driver. You guys need to watch all of these before doing that. Maybe this is more of just a straightforward comedy. Maybe Alpert Finney is an uncredited producer on it. What the fuck is this move? Sure, I'll produce it for you. Did you know uncredited producers was the thing? Because when Finney produced, he would talk like his character, Nair Brockovich. It's one of Aaron. It's one of Angelo Battle lament. He's first credits, but he did it under the name Andy Baddale. Wow. He was trying to pass. Or maybe Andy Badale. And then they tried to give him some espresso and he went, "Shit." And they were like, "Oh, fuck. It's just crazy that one of the Simpsons writers went in the fucking submersible before it blew up." Yes. Yes, it is. That's all. Did you ever go into submersible? No. No way. I'm not going to answer for you on that one. It is no. All right. Ben is sending us ad copy and I got to go pick up my daughter. So I think we should bring Ben and I have to go see Toy Story 5 again. Ben smiling. I signed up for it. Okay. I liked it a lot. I liked it too. What Ben said to me was, I really want to see that again before. Wow. I admire for me. It was interesting again with my daughter I will be seeing it with my children probably on Sunday as well. I don't think I've told you this. They didn't think they were into it because they don't have a lot of Toy Story knowledge. It's not like one of our movies. And then we saw the trailer for Hoppers or something like that. And they're both like, "Oh, yeah. Absolutely. That trailer nailed it for that." I truly wonder what my daughter's going to make of it. But she's more a fan of the other films. And it totally, I mean, loves the other films and she loves Jesse. I think that will be great for her. Yeah. What is Jesse? It is. But I just, I truly wonder if the message will resonate with her. I don't know. Little over her head at this age, I would say, but I totally, I've witnessed a couple examples of kids who do not previously like Toy Story being interested in this one and or loving this one. It certainly looks like it's going to make a lot of money. The pump feels very prime. I was so surprised that it, because like, you know, Charlie, again, like he's 10, like he was, we saw the school is your day. Like he's right for the Odyssey. But like Toy Story, it's, you know, it works. My, my ten year little cousin who always loves to say that he hates the Toy Story movies. The thing that's really challenging me, testing the foulest mouse I've ever seen. He's rebelling against you. I'm so sorry. He did say to me, when does Toy Story 5 come out? I can't wait to see them. We got to take George and Charlie to the movies together someday. That's the dream. That's interesting. They might, they might get along. Okay. All right. We're going to make it happen. Someday we're going to make it happen. Katie, thank you so much for being here. Thank you guys. You guys. Well, come on. I check with Griffin. Find my way back in whenever you'll have me. On to your blankies. Was that the next name we gave you last time? I think so. Yeah. Because Emily is the mother. Yeah. I think I get to be the auntie. So I will gladly take that role. Prestige junkie. Yeah. Prestige junkie at the anchor being Chris Rosen talking about awards stuff. And I have guests on, including you guys, whenever the time comes. I didn't have a turp. So the people are really normal about that was one of those social clips that like I was like, why am I still getting notifications about this? It was so crazy. It was insane. Please get your next hottest take ready and come on back on. I will. Well, big dreams got to announce another avatar movie, but I'll think of something else. Oh, and I have to say fighting in the war room because David Ratt never mentions it. And no, someone's got to do it. We try to make him do it. Not that long ago. We never have guests. Like you and John Ratton burger. I was like the only two guests of ever come. That was like 15 years ago. I have guessed it on fighting in the world. I guess it's usually too lazy for it. But yeah, it came on a talk about Christmas. That was a great time. Yeah, you came on one time and talked about the tick, I think. I'm also I'm also on the iconic episode. I think Griffin is to where David is getting married. And we're all together. Oh, oh, on the porch. That was a porch. That was a porch report. I'm a picture of you guys reporting that. I'm going to find it. That's a good picture. Yeah. We did a lot of like wedding episodes because we're all getting married. They just had their 10th anniversary, right? No, it'll be, it'll be next year because Charlie was a baby. I had just left New York, and I drove back up with that wedding. So it's it sounds right. You're right. 25. It's no, no, 17 to 17. Her anniversary is my always birthday. And she was turning 29. I'm finding this picture of you two sitting on the porch in Yakon. Yeah. That was what that was what we did back then. That's what we did back then. And it's very different from what we're doing right now. Yeah. In a room indoors with a porch. Oh my God, you guys are so cute sitting this picture. I don't want to see this. I'm going to have a fucking existential crisis looking at this picture. Try having a 10 year old where you're like, you were just a baby, weren't you? Now all the listeners can share in it. Anyone who's listening to the Titanic episode. Well, a decade of dreams, a decade of dreams of Charlie. You want to be back? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm back. You can't get rid of me. Charlie will be back. Oh my God. I love it. Especially because you're not doing video. He does not want to be like on video anything. But coming and talking to a microphone, I think he could do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's got come back to his birthday trip. Yeah. He's got to do it. We're coming. New York City zone. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for Taxi Driver with Tracy Litz. We apologize in advance. The episode's a little short. We were facing a couple hard outs. The longest episode we've ever done. I fortunately buy four hours. Yeah. Luckily I murder everyone in the room when it's done. So yeah, it's admissible in court this episode. Just kidding. My memory is belongs it was along a very good episode. Yes. I think so. Yeah. We were pretty locked in with all Tracy. Yeah. That's part of why it's stressful. It's like we're really trying to like be, you know, present and effective with Mr. Tracy Litz. He also was like, I'm going for it. Yeah. He's like, how long? How long is the record? And I was like, don't nobody tell him? Well, I feel like when you have your friends come in and try to break the record, you can be like, no, shut up. You're not doing it. But when it's Tracy Litz, even though he is your friend, he's Tracy Litz. You kind of have to let the man cook through the Pulitzer down on the table and he started cooking over on the Patreon. Recently, we just put out a Resident Evil apocalypse. It's the end of the Resident Evil franchise. I don't know, wait, no, they're four more. Got this photo. Jesus Christ. Look at these babies. Oh, it's better now. You can sign up for that as well as other bonus content over at patreon.com/blankcheck. Do I look better now? I'm going to say, yeah, I think you actually might. Yes. I think I might. I'm thinking of a picture of me. People figure out how to dress better. I look pretty good. I need to tell myself this. Yeah. And as always, kiss my grits. What was I going to say about martial lookisting glass? I don't know. Something funny. Yeah. It's really good. Imagine the funniest thing. Blankcheck with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Researched by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minic. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon blankcheck special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social @blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by blankcheck productions.