Alex Wagner: An Unlawful Administration

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to the Bollard Daily. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Excited to welcome back to the show. Host of the podcast, "Run Away Country," cooking media. She writes on "Substack at How the Hell." Ta-ta-ta with Alex Wagner. And she's the author of a brand new book, The Steel, four right-wing hardliners, Wonder Polkan Presidency, and the raid on America's core to Alex Wagner. - Oh, buddy. It's great to see you. - Welcome back. Thank you for doing this. We're doing this on Thursday evening, which I appreciate Alex doing because I'm flying very early tomorrow to Ohio for our Benefit Fundraise for the Haitian community. - Amazing. - If you guys cannot go and you want to support them, we'll put the link in the show in the Haitian Community Help and Support Center. And I saw a number today on how much we've raised. It kind of blew me away, actually. So we appreciate the board community very much. - That's so awesome. You guys are an awesome community. You have awesome hosts. And that is the right thing to be doing right now. - We'll have a number for you all next week, but I think we'll be proud of us, but important work. And I've got a lot of rants to do. I've been building up all my rants for the show on Friday night. So you've got to carry me on the show, on the rants. - I love it. I'm ready. - I'm ready to. He ain't heavy. He's my whole work. - I ain't a problem. - I got it. I got a couple of rants, just to be clear. But just not as many. I would have. So I'm gonna start with the war vote. And I kind of like a niche, a thing that maybe I'm only interested in when it comes to the war vote, or maybe it's you. - No. - Because it was 50 to 49. - I'm definitely. - So in a situation where the war vote is 1549, every vote is really the deciding vote. Obviously it was 50 against the war power resolution that would have taken the war powers back to Congress where they exist. It's kind of clear why that's needed, but whatever, it's either here or there. Almost all the Republicans voted against it. Still fully inside areas, Trump. But one of the deciding votes was former Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and I want to show a real video of him going to vote to keep the war going today. - A real video. - A real video. Nadea. - Senator McConnell, can you say anything to us? - Or any word, any comment for the press. - Even just the hello, sir. - Senator President Trump's been millions of dollars to remove Thomas Massie from Congress. Please think silent about Senator, any word for us. - Have a good day, Senator. About a news conference. - He's Senator McConnell. - For the listeners there, he does not move. His mouth stays open the whole time. - Yeah, yeah. - But no words come out. - The soul is slowly escaping. - Yeah. - That weekend Mitch McConnell, he cast today that, whatever that is, human, quasi-human figure, cast a deciding vote to keep us on the Iran War today. - I, okay, so I have thoughts on this. - Okay, great. - I mean, I think everybody in Kentucky should be super outraged. Thomas Massie should be most outraged of all. This person is a hollow vessel, but here's the thing, Tim, they all are. Like, does it matter if Mitch McConnell is a zucchini? Like, they're all zucchinis. They're all squash as far as I'm concerned. The idea that Bill Cassidy and John Cornin, and for that matter, Dan Sullivan and John Hustead, but really the yolo, the yolo caucus of the Republican conference that like has nothing left to lose here is still voting in support of a disastrous war that is likely to cost their party control of Congress, is like, "Pooh, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you are functionally brain dead or not." Nobody's using whatever they got in their noggins at this point. Like, what's the point? Who cares? - Yeah, well, we're doing vegetables. Bill Cassidy, I guess, would be as a husk of a man, because he was the last one to vote, because he stalled, because he hemmed in haunders. He's been doing people saying Bill Cassidy's a deciding vote, like I said, everyone was a deciding vote really, so that includes Mitch. And there didn't need to be kind of a stall for deliberation with Mitch, because whoever is doing the voting for him, just kind of just went up there and did it. I take it. I don't know. - I mean, you couldn't say anything to the reporter, so could he say, "I unclear." Yeah, I guess the bell. I keep going back to the bell, like Breaking Bad, you know? He does the bell for when he wants to yes, or two bells for now. I don't know. Anyway, back to Cassidy, my senator. It's the same fucking thing. It's like several times this year where they've needed him, where he kind of went back and forth. And then in the end, at the last second, John Barrasso, talk to John Barrasso, I'm just going to be a very compelling figure from with my own men and build chemistry votes to give the president continued, you know, unending powers for the stupid, pointless wars I don't have a plan to get out of. And then, you know, that doesn't take questions after. It doesn't do anything when he's asked. He's like, "I gotta go catch a plane." It's like, "What do you do?" What are you doing? - What are you doing? - John Kornin was literally castrated by this president. - Yeah. - Doesn't John Kornin back in Texas is having fundraisers for everybody except Ken Paxdon, the man who replaced him on the ticket, 'cause he's still so angry about it. And yet the architect of that becucking Donald Trump, he cannot bring himself to curtail his power in leading the party off the cliff. It like, there is, I really do think there's a special place in hell for people who know better and by and in this situation, have the power to do something about it with almost no blowback. Like, this is an issue that these guys, once they have their like lucrative lobbying gigs after they leave the Senate, are not going to be punished for. Like, this is-- - This is why they're doing it for awards, right? Like, Cassidy wants to be able to call John Thin and John Burrassa again next year when he's good, he's, you know-- - But they're not, but I think if they did a favor to the party in Congress and helped show that Republicans have a backbone, they wouldn't be punished for it on the back end after they leave. Just the fear is so powerful, I guess. That's the only thing that you can imagine. Can I also just say, I know every vote is a tie-breaking vote or whatever, but the fact that John Fetterman is the only Democrat to vote with the Republicans on this makes me extraordinarily worried about a very narrow Senate majority that keeps John Fetterman in the cat bird seat. Speaking of someone who is, I do not think all there. - Well, I don't think it's got to win five. We're gonna get down to the Senate map in a second. Oh, well, that's kind of related. Well, let's write it. The Michigan Senate race is one of the key ones. And I was struck by an ad that Mike Rogers did this week about the war. And I did a whole other video in the text 'cause this thing, I rage me so much, if they want the long verge of being able to go do that, where I went through all of these guys who are running now and coming up with different ways to try to tip to away from the war. But the Rogers ad, I found the most interesting for a couple of reasons which we'll talk about. Let's watch together. - Michigan families are struggling with the price of everyday life. Groceries cost too much. You have to bring prices down. The war with Iran needs to end and end quickly. When it does, energy costs will plummet, but Michigan families can afford to wait for that to happen. We need to do something now. - We need to do something now. What? - You know what that is? What is that thing that, Mike, are you doing a big reveal or do we get to say? - No, no, no, no, no, that's that, that is. We have to do something. - It's a spoil, yeah. - Now. - To spend diesel experts. - What would we, what is the something? Mike Rogers, he used to want, and he's like, we got to do it kind of quickly. Mike Rogers is the biggest cheerleader for this war. You know, I mean, Rogers was a huge, he's a huge around hawk. He was, he was on Trump side and all of this. And back in May, he was talking about how, oh boy, they might keep the straight of hormones. And that would be a disaster. And so we've got, he wanted to escalate in May. This is the time to take him out. Now the ad is, it needs to end and end quickly when it does, energy cost will plummet. Was that true? Even do we know how, how, how? - In fact, first of all, first of all, like the oil infrastructure has been so badly damaged. We won't go into the Saudi Arabian East West pipeline, which was like the only like alternative to the straight of hormones. I'm not a petrochemical engineer, but the destruction of that pipeline could be seen from space. It's gonna take a minute. The refineries have been offline. I mean, we're just talking about elevated gas prices through 2027, if the war is even over by then. I mean, we're now at the point where this, this may be a 2028 presidential election issue. Like that's how bad it's going. - Microcontrochemical. - Like standing in, first of all, you can almost see me like, what, how does this work? I walk in here and the food is available for free. Or do I pay for it? They put him in like a brand new vest 'cause that I guess speaks grocery store sheet. - Yeah. - He's never gone grocery shopping in his life. - He's like, do I look at, how do I do? How do I decide how firm the produce is? - What is it, tomato? - He looks very uncomfortable. And I just, I love it though. I think they should put it on a bumper sticker. I mean, it's just so deep. It's so Jonah, it's kind of like Jonah's campaign slogan. What, TBD? TBD, does my garage want us to end the blockade? - He wants us to spend, he's all exports. I have no idea, nobody has a solution. Like nobody has a solution 'cause the only solution is one, I mean, whatever. I don't want to bigfoot you on geopolitics, but like. - Please. - Bigfoot me. - Xi Jinping is the key to maybe winding down the Iran war. And Donald Trump says that's off the table. Or not talking to him about that, no, no. - No, we're too busy. We had some other things to talk to Xi about today. So they're walking around. As I mentioned, we're taping this early evening. So they have the state dinner tonight, not in the ballroom. Ballroom isn't ready yet, that's sad. So we'll see how that goes. I mean, and if something really crazy happens, like Trump takes out his little penis or something, I don't know, my flight's early, but I will get up early enough to do like a little five minute topper on this. If something really crazy happens. but it's what's happened so far at the time of this tape thing. Trump showed the auto pen picture of Biden that he has in the hall of presidents or whatever they created and he was really kind of giving a little jocular punch on the shoulder and she kind of pretended to laugh at that. And then this was a big one. This is from Eric Dority who's one of the big Trump propagandists right now out there. He writes this. It's kind of a pool report of his own from today. Just in, President Trump reveals president, she is a huge fan of his new helipad because it's made of granite. He has a great interest in granite. He likes granite. He's an expert on stones, Trump said. And he loves a good granite. This might be Trump's favorite part of the entire visit as he loves nothing more than presenting his construction projects to important people. It's beautiful. The White House needed this. The White House needed the big granite win in this debate. I mean, not, access for soybean farmers, not new rules around AI, SI, excuse me, not tariff relief, not, not not not going after she, but the fact that he helped Iran kill three American soldiers. None of that. The big win was the granite. It really does feel like maybe calculated sabotage at this point, right? Like to literally have the Chinese premiere there. At a moment when the essential issue is addressing what's happening in Iran. China is literally helping Iran target Americans and kill them. It's the major buyer of Iranian oil. They are helping the Iranians launder money from their oil sales. They are helping build chemical precursors for ballistic missiles that Iran is using. They're giving them drone parts. I mean, Iran is a client state of China at this point. And not only is the president not addressing that, but he's going back to the fucking hella pad. Like what an embarrassment. Also, they're wearing weirdly matching outfits in that whole little moment, which makes the whole thing even more sort of twin peaks. Like, how could this surreality actually be playing out at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? I mean, it's really, I just mind-boggling that like this is happening. There's this old tweet from 2012 that Trump sent. Obviously, there's always a tweet about Obama and they had bugles, I guess, or something for she. And it's like this, and Trump was complaining about the bugles, but it's like the troops are on their knees as it comes down the plane. Again, Chairman Xi has been responsible for the deaths of our troops. They're prostrate in front of the red carpet. Trump's just showing off the making fun of Biden, showing off the granite and like saying that AI, they're AI stuff's cool. Don't worry about it. I mean, it's, it's just full prostrate giving into Xi and all Trump wants is like to feel like a fancy boy. I mean, I think it's almost treasonous, right? Like this. Well, you said he accused the media of treason during the trip. Right. So the media, you and me, we're treasonous. The Kami leader, great, actually. Good bro. Like love the Kami dictator that's helping kill our troops. The media covering what's happening treason. I don't know what words you want to call it, but it's not, it's certainly not pro-America. Can you imagine any other moment when literally the United States president is meeting with that head of a foreign country and the press of the foreign country can get into the White House, but not the American press. And the president is cow-towing, both literally and figuratively waiting for him at the bottom of the steps of his plane as he arrives, like an eager beagle. And then giving him quarter and and celebrating him as he is helping architect the deaths of American service people abroad. I mean, like I can't think of any parallel. And if that's not treasonous, I don't know what is. This episode of the book is brought to you by our friends at Wildgrain. Wildgrain delivers sour dough bread, seasonal pastries and fresh butter made by small independent bakeries right to your door. Everything baked straight from frozen in 25 minutes or less with simple recognizable ingredients you can pronounce. So you can have warm bakery quality goods whenever you want without worrying about them going stale. For me, the thing that's nice about Wildgrain is how easy it is. I particularly like it on the weekend mornings. You know, sometimes you get up, especially if you had a good time the night before. 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Visit wildgrain.com/thebork to get 30 bucks off your first box plus free croissants for life. Again, that's wildgrain.com/thebork for 30 bucks off your first box and free croissants for life or use promo code to the bulwark at checkout. I saw a funny chart. It was a Wall Street Journal checking this out like what people in our business talk about, political podcasts. When other people analyze you, what's better than that? You know, you love it when to hear people talking about it. The narcissism is in full flower, isn't it? The narcissism is that what is it? Who was it? Who was it? Malcolm Gladwell. I think it was Malcolm Gladwell. It's like someone mentions your name across the room at a party. I give humans like we're trained to catch that sound in a way that we would not be able to lock in on their conversation otherwise. Really? Yeah. Anyway, this is like that. Wall Street Journal was tracking 70,000 hours of podcast, liberal podcast and conservative, and it's total mentions of Trump per hour. And by like the inauguration, for example, or the election, it was even they're both the same. It was about 40 an hour during the election and then about 25 an hour by the inauguration. Okay. Then it goes on liberal, a little bit more conservative, a little bit less. The Iran war starts. Now the conservative podcasts are mentioning them like never. And we're keeping steady over here. I assume I'm being counted in the liberal side. Sometimes I get miss miss sometimes people are you know, misdiagnosed. Yeah, looking at the 2015 census when deciding where to put me. Exactly. I mean, I think that is like very telling. If I'm running a conservative podcast today, what do I even put on my rundown about the sheet Trump meeting? There's nothing. I guess if you're in the total cult, you can do the granite. Right, but if you're one step over from the cult, if you're Ben Shapiro, like you wish you're in a cult, but you have a little bit of policy ideology, you're still thought of, what do you even talk about? Not you know, you talk about the WNBA or what? You talk about Lindsey Clancy. I mean, that's like the other thing they tracked. They're like the engines of men's Lindsey Clancy, which is not like traditional manosphere, uh, fodder is getting more clicks than Donald Trump. To me, this tells me they're tuned out and turned off and they may not show up at the polls. Like this doesn't mean that they're all like suddenly, you know, Kamala Harris stands or whatever or all soft stands, I guess, more to the point. They are, they just want to pretend he doesn't exist anymore. And like that's a very bad look for a bunch of Republicans who are on the ticket in November. It's a long way to go. I mean, I guess eventually you can start talking about 2028, but Trump's going to delay that as long as possible. Yes. It's a long slog of, of writing, of doing podcasting if you're not wanting to talk about the president of the United States and you have a politics podcast. Yeah. Well, then you sort of try and find other men in the orbit that you can rail against like James Tolerico, who's like now catnip for right way manosphere podcasts. Let's talk about that race. I always hate to cheat on Sarah by talking about other focus groups. But it was a delicious New York Times focus group that asked these are Trump voters who were, I guess, are you undecided or independent or something, but they were Trump voters from 2024. Let's get into the specific candidates. When you hear the name Ken Paxton, what comes to mind? Crook, crook, crooked, bad, amoral, disgusting, morally corrupt, disgusting, corrupt bathrooms. There's one, there was one lady that, and that was, that was a good one for him, because there was one lady that associated with him with protecting girls bathrooms. That's the best interpretation of that. That was the best. She followed up. When you're saying disgusting, gross bathrooms, I don't think that that's I was wondering that. So I went, I went further and whatever the smarter take is, you know what it's about, or follow up the answer. So I don't, I have, you know, very tolerico-hopian pilled. He was up six in a polaroid this week. A little birdie told me that the, that there's a super PAC coming in with huge money for him to soon. Maybe next week. I think that the gap between crews in 18 and Paxton is the key thing. I don't, tolerico might be marginally better than Beto. The environment, I think, is marginally better. Yeah. But, but pretty similar to the candidate. The gap between crews and Paxton, I think, is wider than people, particularly like last progressive people who like look at them and they're like, you're both gross and disgusting. But it's like, I do think that that is, that potentially might be the death now. Yeah. Ken Paxton, I mean, if you've ever heard him open his mouth, he's like the least compelling speaker and he doesn't even read Texas. Like, that's the thing I don't get. Like, it's one thing if someone's intensely charismatic and really can, you know, move the crowd and has an aw-shock's attitude that really plays well. He has no risk at all whatsoever. and it also happens to be wildly corrupt and is known in the state of Texas for his corruption. So yeah, I think he's a much weaker candidate than Greg Abbott or Ted Cruz or any prominent sort of Texan who has some baggage. Ken Paxton has nothing to offer either. I mean, he's trying to make a late play on tracking the water usage of AI data centers, but the whole Republican 180 in Texas in particular are on the issue of AI data centers, which is alarming people in that state and really animating them. I mean, for my podcast, I talk to a former Paxton staffer who's now dealing with the data center issue down there and is like, you don't even understand. This is, first of all, there's huge bipartisan support, real grassroots activism on it from the right and like, Paxton and Abbott have been so on the wrong side of it and they're not assisted by the president who day after day continues to double down on his support of it. Like the Republican party in Texas is coded pro AI and that's a problem. - The other thing that's interesting to play is Paxton want to bait him, Tel Rico. And like, just before we started, got on, Tel Rico is on stage somewhere in Texas and said that he is now a challenge to visit a trip test, yeah, he's a trip test. - So it says Texas Tribune in the background. - Yeah, shout out Evan. And he says, I wanted to bait him on a box. He wanted to bait him anywhere else. I'll prove him, I'll go there. And I love this play and I thought it was the one thing that I really, that I think is underrated as a mistake of the Harris campaign strategy, people talking about the Rogan stuff and all that but I was like, you should have accepted the Fox debate. There's something about it. It toughens you up just by going. - Totally. And it's really important for Tel Rico, I think to do it too in specific and as it would have been important for Harris because they've been the victims of like, undo sort of shaming around how tough they are and in Tel Rico's case, like what kind of man is he? So to say, I'm going into the line stand to come meet me, their bitch is good. Good luck. - That's good. At the other story, I had Mary Paltola on the podcast yesterday, which was interesting. Timing was interesting, you know, sometimes podcast magic and the timing, you know, sometimes the fates work for you and timing and other times, that quite as much. Anyway, you've seen the New York Times story. I'll curious your thoughts 'cause you were, you went a little bit separate from some of your pod cohort over there on Platner. You were a little harder on him than they were. I don't want to compare Platner's behavior to Paltola's at all. - No. - Yeah, I just kept to call. I understood the appeal of Platner and I just always was like, there's just something that rubs me maybe the wrong way about this guy and then turns out that that was maybe the correct line of thinking when it came to that. - You weren't alone on that instinct to just be happy to be alone. Yeah, it was a female instinct mostly, voluntarily, but a lot. The Paltola thing, obviously different. I think you hear some people in the discourse being like, every boss is terrible on DC. You only hear this about Amy Klobuchar. You only hear this about women and there's a sexist element to it. That's some of that. You know, there's some people like these me included, which is like some of these. Whoever leaked the screenshot of the text where she said retard or whatever. And then I know I'm knowing. It was the scrub's line. Some scrubs reference. - I nothing you. - I nothing you. And then the staffer hated it and then leaked it. I'm like, sorry, you can't, you can't heart the text and then leave that you're afraid of dying. - And then be indignant. - Okay. - What? - Anyway, what was your overall take on the story? - I don't like this story, Tim. - You know. - I do not like this story. I mean, I do agree we judge women harshly and sometimes asymmetrically in terms of how they deal with their time and power compared to men. But I don't know, like using the F word, not fuck, the other one to slur gay people, saying like fuck these bitches. And I hope that woman dies from a botched abortion. Like, those are soul corroding statements. That's not that cool. That is not. I mean, I don't know. And like getting physical with your staff, even if nobody gets hurt, it's just, I have, you know, we work with people. I've had people that worked for me in like, - You never pushed, you never pushed for pretty strong in the circus. - I'm not doing that. Absolutely not. - Not what? - I mean, now watch someone's gonna be like, "Vavage pushed me." No, you can't, and that listen. - I got up in Rick Grinnell's grill during the circus where there was the very nearly a gay push. There was very nearly a gay push. - Yeah, it's one thing if you are having a debate with someone, but the power dynamic is such that these are staffers that are literally cowering in fear. Some of them are like, they're talking about the strain. The other part that disturbs me is it's not one or two. It's multiple waves of staffers are trying to leave the office. I just, I don't like this story. - Yeah. - I think it does not reflect well on her. It's a real shame that this is how she conducts herself in private. It's not good. That's my attitude. It's not good. I don't know. I'm not gonna push over code it. I genuinely believe that women get a rough ride and a wrong ride a lot of times, but this is just alarming behavior. And you can't say this stuff. - I appreciate that. - You can't do this stuff. - I don't disagree. I don't like the timing. I don't know. There's something about that I don't like. - The timing is sus. I don't like the timing at all. It feels very, very opo research like nice try like September 23rd or whenever this went to file. But like, no, that part is very questionable. That part is max of, you know, the Sullivan campaign. - Yeah. I hate dance all been so much is also part of my blinding. You know, it's kind of the family feud element of it. Like he was one of my kind of Republicans that didn't have the old census with dead named Tim. You know, like my friends consulted for him. Like I don't want to pretend like we were pals or whatever, but like that was my, you know, he was a national security. You know, kind of conservative on social issues. It wasn't really his thing kind of Republican, you know? And it's like, and now you're just sitting there quietly while Donald Trump gets down against the Iran or authorization. - Yeah. Yeah. And like you're your guy, your president. It's like getting on his knees for the Chinese communists. You don't say anything, you don't disinterest. Anyway, and this is how the brains work. And this is what rationalization is, right? So I appreciate that you didn't sugarcoat it. - Well, but I will say, you know, I guess people are bringing up the specter of Amy Klobuchar and the salad with the comb. That did not diminish her political career. - No. - And she rode her toughness right the fuck back, maybe into the governor's seat, come November. - Yeah. I think this probably helps in Alaska too, 'cause the other thing is Alaska, you know, just to make up and all that. In some of these states, if you're a Democrat, you know, there's the balance, right? You're trying to win over spring voters. You're all trying to galvanize your base. It's not like there's huge college campuses or whatever, or people are gonna be a fed, you know what I mean? And Alaska, right? - Fisherman. - Yeah. I think they've got bigger problems. People paying 26, 82 for gas or whatever. She said they were paying on some of them. - And that bigger fish to fry quite literally. - There we go. That's what I was looking for. - You flagged for me a story that I've not covered. I've had it text a couple of times. And it's only since I'm just like, it's hard for me to follow exactly what's happening, but the Riverside County Sheriff, Chad Bianco, he's also a key as a candidate for governor in California, right wing guy. A court forced him to return 650,000 ballots he had seized. - 650,000. - 650,000. - I don't like that sentence. Ballots he had seized from election officials as part of an investigation and investigation and a voter fraud that had no basis in fact going to other officials. What's happening here? - He was gonna have his deputies count the ballots because his tinfoil-hotted election conspiracist allies in the state were like, they counted more votes than were actually registered. Now apparently there may have been a discrepancy of up to 100 votes. - Do we talk about the first round of the governor's race or are we going back? - Sorry, this is for a measure to do the blue gerrymander of the California congressional districts. It was to redraw the state's congressional maps to give Democrats a five-seat advantage or to capture five more seats. And it passed in Riverside County. I think by 56%, it passed statewide in California by 64% and that really pissed off conservatives in Riverside County, including an especially chef Brad, Chad, sorry, Chad, Cian. - Brad and Chad, whatever. - It's really tomato tomato. - Exactly. - And what's alarming to me about this is like I am worried genuinely about the chain of custody after the midterm election balance are cast. I'm worried about the chicanaery inside the machinery of government around the counting and the certification. I just worry about that. And the fact that this, you know, jabroni and Riverside County on a whim, on his unilaterally decided he was gonna seize up, you know, three quarters of a million ballots to have his deputies go over and it got them. Like seize the ballots. Like I just, I worry that we're gonna be on November 5th being like, oh shit, remember? When they showed us what they were gonna do and we didn't pay attention. It is, I am less worried about violence at the polls and like direct voter intimidation and way more worried about the fact that there are Trump election deniers at every level of the government, including and especially the Department of Homeland Security and that they're gonna be able to manipulate the system or cry foul even obviously when there isn't any to undermine confidence in the results and throw certification into question. Like I just, that's the part of all of this that I worry about and this story to me gives me chills. I mean, he's been ordered to return the ballots. But like, you know, this is of a suite with the FBI seizing the 2020 ballots [BLANK_AUDIO] Georgia and the data in Arizona and the interviewing of election officials in Wisconsin. I mean, the, like, wing and monkeys have been flapping all over this country. And there's some strategizing a foot. - And it didn't work. So I'm always have two minds about all this stuff, right? So like they keep failing. So I think that's important to say. That doesn't mean that we're not worried about it or monitoring. On the other side of that coin, this story flags something that I do worry about that I don't feel like I talk about very much. So I think it's worth sort of hashing over a little bit, which is a lot of times the discussions of the threats are this top down. Trump administration, nefarious, ice at the ballot box, et cetera. But like it's been since 2020 now, this is the third election cycle. And there's just been a lot of turnover in random ass jobs, like election official jobs, county leadership and particularly red states, red places, sheriffs. - Yes. - And if you look at the playing field for these center races, we're just talking about Texas. Like think about how many counties are in Texas. Think about any fucking lunatic, magas, sheriffs and election officials there are in random counties in East Texas, like between Houston and Louisiana border, obviously West Texas, like a lot, a lot. And a lot of votes there. It's not dense, but if you add it all up, it's a lot of territory, a lot of votes. And that is something, like troublemaking kind of bottom up. It doesn't get quite as much attention. And I think this is a good example of that. I know that Mark Lison and all these guys are looking at all that, but I do think that's a concern. And that's something everybody can do, and particularly if you're in a red community. It's like being a poll watcher, keeping an eye. - Take an interest. Also take an interest in who is running the elections, who the sheriff is, you know, it's important to know who these actors are. You know, Texas is gonna be a close race. - Really close. - That's the thing that works. I just keep coming back to it. If the Senate hinges on Talrika's 21, 2000 vote win, so that's a real dicey scenario. I'll talk about the courts. I'll talk about what's happening right now at the courts and we'll get to your book. I'm gonna go backwards in time, a little bit too. The Alito Thomas thing is interesting. I saw our mutual pal Chris Hayes tweeted that he would be not surprised if one of them retired if the Democrats do get the 52, a big enough Senate majority. - I've been saying this. - I think I told Chris that. - Okay, so he stole that, take from you. - Yes, I've been talking about this incessantly for the last two and a half weeks. - He is a take thief. - He really is. - Ed Wielin, I have a couple of things about Ed Wielin. Fielin don't know him. He's an interesting character. He's like a courts conservative, courts policy guy. He swims in the Federalist Circle, Federal Society, excuse me, world, a very conservative guy. But I guess had taken some few principled stands on a few things when, you know, right, it's going crazy. So I watch his feed just kind of as like a, this guy is way more right than I am on court stuff that generally a fair broker. And it was interesting that he responded to Chris saying, he would be surprised. He doesn't think that they're gonna retire. And so who knows? But I just thought that was interesting 'cause he might be in a position to hear. I do wonder if the hubris of Thomas and Alito is greater. You know, the ego in the hubris is greater than like the practical judgment. Well, it would appear as yes, right? It's just kind of such an outrageous possibility that in a season of outrage, we have to entertain it. I mean, it's hard for me to imagine that a 76 year old man who's really close to retirement is just gonna bet on father time not coming and waving his siphon, his direction in the next 10 years. I mean, 'cause that's truly like a possibility if Democrats win the Senate and then there is a democratic president for two terms, which is totally within the realm of possibility. - Wow. Okay. - Well, I'm just saying, if you're literally making the calculation, they'll like-- - We're just trying to get through tomorrow, baby. You think that Democrats are gonna have it to the decade for you. - If you're like time appointee, if you're part of the council of elders that's steering this country off the cliff, then like you do have to consider this. Also with the example of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, it's like that has to echo in the back of their increasingly hollow minds. And I just think Alito has become such a partisan and such an operator in service of a deeply conservative agenda. It's just hard for me to imagine he's not considering it. Having said that, it would be such a catastrophic blow to norms and I think it would really upend business in the Senate. If John Thune and the Lackies on the Judiciary Committee move forward with the Supreme Court nomination process in the lame duck session of Congress, like hello DC statehood, hello Puerto Rico statehood, goodbye filibuster, like it's all on the table because there will be retribution when the Senate goes into Democratic House. I mean, I just think it's an interesting thought exercise to imagine what the consequences of that action would be. And by the way, Democrats should start saying it just to dissuade these justices from retiring 'cause they do absolutely pay attention to politics. - I agree, Democrats should start saying it. It's interesting to think of it. Now, I don't know which I'm rooting for. - You want them to go hand. - I like the payback. I like the idea of the payback, but also, I like the idea of Democratic president and these guys starting to have regrets as they start to age about the choice that they made and who their replacement, whose hands or replacement would be in. It's interesting exercise. I don't know, Alito's wife is a total lunatic. - Yes, both of their wives, Ginny Thomas. - Oh my God, I mean Ginny Thomas should be in jail. So I guess we should throw that out there. I mean, Ginny Thomas was actively plotting to overturn the democracy of the country. It's pretty strange that current Thomas is still on the Supreme Court. That's one of my rants for a while. I don't ever talk about this anymore, but it's not, thank you for letting me bring it back up. It's like-- - I could talk about everything. - They talk about it at the dinner table. I mean, she was planning a coup and one of the nine Supreme Court justices was sleeping in the same bed with her. Maybe they have a loosey and dusty situation. I don't know, but they had a lot of FaceTime. I assume the coup she was plotting was came up from time to time. - Just like the giant insurrection that's flagged that was being flown over the beach house at the Alito House. Like he did not notice that. These guys, as I talk about in my new book, Tim, are dyed in the wool partisan warriors. Like they have been hiding behind originalism, but they don't even try and do that anymore. They're just out there in those streets trying to move the country ever rightward. - The other thing wheeling is that, I'm gonna go back to the rest of the book stuff, is this. - Sure hope that Senate ours are making plans to confirm all remading judicial nominees during host election lame duck period. The prospect that Dems will in control of the Senate seems increasingly likely. It might not happen, but best to be prepared if it does. That's interesting, good for me. But I think we're at this point now. We're like, the Democrats aren't gonna confirm anybody. - No. - Right? - Or do you think that they're still, we're still in old 2018 mode, where we're gonna cut a deal. We're gonna cut a grand bargain with John Thun and blah, blah, blah. - I don't think so. I mean, I think there are two data points. Is Chuck Schumer still gonna be majority leader if they win the Senate? I don't know. But like the fact that they were willing to shut down the government over ice killings and Obamacare subsidy is expiring. Timmy says they have some fight in them. And they're gonna have to get their shit together if they wanna win the presidency in 2028 and show that they have some gumption. So like if a leader or Thomas retires or dies or someone dies, they should keep that seat open. - That's right. - And it can be a five, three majority. - Obviously. - Yeah, but I don't know what it's like. - So, same, right? - No, they shouldn't confirm. I mean, listen, I'm someone that thinks that like, after they started slaughtering Americans in the streets and the fact that they're trying to destroy black and brown lives across the country, is reason enough to hold all funding up. Like the sins being done in our name are like far exceed whatever the sort of normal parliamentary procedure for federal funding is. So yeah, I mean, I take a more, I think radical view on all of this, but yeah. I mean, this is an unlawful administration that has no business appointing anyone who's supposed to oversee the judicial branch. - I'm not sure. I think that that's what they're gonna be. We'll see. That'll be something we'll monitor closely. - Give us the elevator pitch for the block and I've got a couple of things I wanna chat with you about. - So, I am incensed, obviously, by the injustice of the judicial branch. And I wanted to get at the sort of origin story of how it became such a partisan battlefield and specifically how the right launched a heist to take the Supreme Court, that we are now, you know, a stolen court that we are now living in. I say stolen because it's so at odds with American public opinion and the direction, I think most Americans want the country to go in and they're unanswered, they answer to no one. - I get shit from this from my former Republican, I'm not anymore, because I was saying this a couple years ago when I was still had like the normal Republicans would quote tweet me and dunk on me and go try to go back and they've all, I'm the lost cause to everybody now. So they don't, nobody notices or cares when I say so like this, but they literally stole a seat. - Yeah. - If you look at Garland versus Ginsburg and like it was the same situation, it was actually a worse situation. I was like much closer to the election when Ginsburg died and they replaced one, they didn't replace the other. Like it should be five, it just should be five four. Like that's period. - And can I just say, who did Obama nominate to fill Scalia's seat? - Mayor Garland. - Mayor Garland, a member of the Supreme Court. of the Federalist Society and a Republican as a hat tip to fucking Republicans. So like, don't at me that this is a dual, like, you know, bastardization of the independence of the judicial branch. Like conservatives have been much more cutthroat about making, ensuring their justice has passed a conservative litmus test. So the book really traces the origin of these essential organizations who help shape this moment and this court, including the birth of the Federalist Society, the birth of the moral majority, the birth of the Heritage Foundation. And it tells that story through the plot of four henchmen of the apocalypse, Robert Bork, Edmys, Paul Wyrick and Joe Kors, who together function as a kind of crackerjack squad that launches a strategy to make the court in conservative image and to launch a legal theory by which they can unwind decades of social and civil rights progress with the deep pockets of Joe Kors and others who make it all possible. It's really a heist story, Tim. I like heist movies. It's a New York Times bestseller. Can't you guys really read it? Someone told me it's like a beach read for politics. Like, it's a readable story. It's not, you'll laugh, you'll cry. It's propulsive. I do like emotional, I don't know about being on an emotional journey when thinking about the downfall of our public. Because I grew up in Republican circles, I know quite a bit about me, Sin Wyrick and Bork, those who don't should purchase the book and they can learn more. I wanted to talk a little bit more about Joe Kors, because he's fellow Colorado. I've drank their beer a few times. Pete Kors, is that nephew, son? Pete is the, I believe, the nephew of Joe. Yeah, nephew. So I got to know him a little bit. He ran a horrific campaign for Senate, God, 20 years ago now, probably. And there are other Kors kind of doubtting around. But I didn't, I just couldn't pull from my memory like exactly what Joe's role in all this was. So why don't you just impart a little bit of knowledge on us on that? Joe and Bill Kors are both a vowed racists, paranoid conspiracists who believe zip codes are an insidious government plot. They are so racist. I'm intrigued by that theory. Well, I mean, it's the only thing he was right on. But they enclosed literature from the racist John Birch Society along with Kors employee paychecks. In the 1960s, they are very anti-civil rights. They say explicitly, if the Civil Rights Act passes, we're going to have to fire a bunch of you in higher blacks in your place, like explicitly racist. Kors is radicalized in the 60s by both civil rights progress and by what he sees happening in neighboring California with student protests and sit-ins and Berkeley. And he thinks academia has become liberal is liberalism, run them up. Something needs to be done to stop these professors and their long-haired students from destroying the American legacy. And so he takes the money that he's made from Kors Bir and he starts funneling it into conservative causes. And one of the causes he funnels it into is a nascent organization created by Paul Wyrek, who is not a household name but is really, really should be. I mean, he's a brilliant mastermind of the right. He's starting, he wants to start a think tank that will answer the think tanks on the left and help hold squish conservatives into to account once they get elected. And he comes up with a name for this organization and it's called the Heritage Foundation. Heritage not hate. Yeah. You know. And he's the money man. He's the money man and he funds other organizations, but he's a key player in getting these things off the ground. And Wyrek and Kors work in tandem a lot and together help, you know, create the modern-day arch-conservative movement within the Republican Party. All right. So you went back and learned all of this. You learned all the dirty tricks. It took a long time. I know. And you know, it's kind of like an ocean's 13 type things. We should go should go read it. And it will be made into a movie, Jesse Eisenberg. I mean, people say I mean, that's I'm manifesting. I think it should be. You could Melissa Marie thinks Jesse Eisenberg could play Paul Wyrek. Paul Wyrek is so ugly. Paul Wyrek looks like an Easter egg. Everyone's more beautiful on screen than they are in place. Okay. You like Paul Gianmatti to play. Paul Gianmatti could play. I don't think. No, Ed Mies needs to be played by Philipsy Moore-Hoffman-Ressen piece. All right, he forget what Ed Mies looks like. Oh, yeah, that's right. Kind of a Mr. Potato had blonde from Oakland, but with a real punitive streak. Yeah. Ed Mies is kind of a, he's still a love of a face. Is he? Yeah. In fact, he was one of the signers to the Amicus brief filed with Eileen Cannon that said that the special counsel Jack Smith had no business taking Trump to court for the Mar-a-Lago document scandal, which she listened to and dismissed the case. Still messing with our lives. Love that. Love that. Love that he's still around. Ed Mies, our work's dead. Sorry. Still messing with our lives, Rob. That's okay. We'll keep it in. Ed Mies, Bob Bork's dead. Bob Bork is also still messing with our lives. He's also a really. Paul Gianmatti could definitely play ball, Lyric, and he could play. Yeah. I'm like, when Eddie Murphy plays like multiple, like a magnetic professor when he plays like multiple characters like Martin Short. Yeah. Martin Short. Okay. Here's a big question that you get, though, which is like, all right, Democrats. Now what? All right, so they got behind the ball. There's going to be a lot of proposals out there. A lot of this stuff is a little bit of we're in dreamland, but like what is realistic? Like what dream, I guess? What is a realistic dream? Dream with me, but don't be crazy. Dream on the and the vis-a-vis the courts or just general. I think they got a really look. I mean, I am old enough. It's hard for it to not be in La La Land, but do you remember when Rick Perry was in favor of Supreme Court, like term limits? Do you remember that? You probably don't. I remember. I was like the one good idea Rick Perry ever had. I don't remember that. It sounds like a John Huntsman idea than a Rick Perry idea. Oh, it's a Rick Perry idea. Pretty positive. It was a Rick Perry idea. I like it. The idea that the course of American history is being dictated by the planking routine of some octogenarians is not what the founding fathers imagined. This was my problem with RBG, hey, geography. We should not be worried about the health of old, I mean, we should be worried about the health of our elders period, but the aging process should not have a direct impact on the course of this country. It is the worst kind of gerontocracy ever. Something needs to be done. I think that they should really look at court expansion. I mean, they stole a seat. So take two more. It's good for the goose. It's good for the gander kind of two geese. I don't know. I mean, I just think we're living in desperate times. Like they're doing things that are at odds with like wildly at odds with both the health and safety and desires of the American public. Yeah, I don't know. That's not one of my buddies today. He's like a little non-political. I understand this feeling. The feeling that for people who don't listen to our podcasts and aren't fully consumed in all the details and the back and forth and don't know the history of unfit foul play. I think that there's a tiredness now from some people. This is what Biden tapped into in 2020. It was this tiredness. It was like, hey, let's restore this whole of the America, right? And I think that I get that. I get why people want that. But that's just like that's just not what we are. Like there has to be recompense. Like there's does. I don't see any other way. The worry then is that it's an endless cycle and that we know we're just kind of punching each other as we decline the American Republic. And this is a nice way to end the Friday podcast for the Bullwork. But do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I would just say if it's just for partisan gain, then yeah, it will be in some of it will be partisan punchback. But some of it should just be shoring up the institutions to make their strong enough so that it's not just norm and protocol and tradition that determine whether our democracy survives. Just the light times on this Friday. Do you have anything else? We're going to check out our sex podcast that we're going to launch in January of 2020. Seven. Seven. Sex podcast. Yeah, I guess email the email list. I want to see what kind of questions we have to get. Is that like a doctor drew thing or is that are we? What are we doing? How many times do I have to pitch this to you? We are looking at American life through the lens of sex, which is very, it is the thing that animates. I mean, it animates arguably the entire, like manosphere. It argue it animates like what's happening down in Texas, both Paxton and Tallerico. It animates what's happening in Alaska with Mary Peltola. Gender is a, you know, gender and sex are forever co-mingled. Like it is like I would argue the animating force in American life right now. And so it's not like. And then you know, whatever. No, nobody has to talk about like reverse cowgirl if they don't want to. I mean, people do want that. Well, maybe there will be time for that, but it doesn't have to be an ex-rated podcast. It's just going to be a different way in, a portal in to all the stuff that's happening. I think your husband will be fine with it. Yeah. I know, but I want it to be good, you know, and for it to be good. Well, it can be juicy too. It can be good to get people to want to listen. We can talk about Lindsay Clancy as well. I don't know anything about that. I just every once in a while don't you see a new thing that comes by that you're just like I'm checking out of this one And I just like a mom that killed their kids. It was too depressing It's very depressing and I read like one tweet about it And then I just I do have an ability I learned when trouble in the first time I went and got a yoga practice going in Oakland You know Trina I did and one of the things my my whatever you call yoga teacher Jamila on the weekends one thing she taught me was kind of the ability you know kind of an extra layer of compartmentalization Of the of your site in here. That's how a yoga teacher is supposed to teach you. Okay. Well, this was it was a little It's a little bit of a woo woo yoga class and And I got very good at blocking out certain sounds like she would be like we would do the breathing the exercises But it was like don't listen, you know stop hearing the air conditioner or the bird or the taunting and so I learned how to do that And I and I've incorporated into my news consumption life where everyone's like I'll see a word like Clancy and my brain Just doesn't just shut it off. It's just like I see nothing on this and then I just keep on moving So I really I don't even know what happened the kids died and she got off It's I guess well, it's yeah, it was in the declared a mistrial, but it just raises there's a deep gender divide over whether or not a woman would do this Because she had severe postpartum depression or whether she's a murderous villain Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm sitting that one out. Yeah, I think Maybe I mean, I don't know that Lindsey Clancy fits in with sex, but gender is part of it But also, you know, we could also just talk about Ken Paxon's wife divorcing him on biblical grounds and what that really might mean Ken Paxon and and blend in with the side piece. I'm just saying there's stuff to talk about what's happened And why is why is Mark Lane Mullin rooming with Jason wants his name from Oklahoma? Who's obviously I mean like someone a costed John Ausef and asked if he had BDE and he was like what my brother and some of the Cost of John a Josh Halley and asked him about Carlos the bus boy. So Let's talk about okay, we'll talk about it. We'll think about it. We'll learn more. We're brainstorming We're brains are JBL'd be very jealous if we did together. I guess the one things we might have to have a rotating set of hosts The JBL's wife my okay, whatever my we're ending the show now I told you I told you this podcast is gonna get me into trouble. Okay, that's Alex Wagner everybody have a great weekend It's great as possible. I'm gonna be in Ohio. What's up? Come say hey if you're in Dayton and that we'll see you all back on Monday Thanks Alex everybody The Bullwork Daily is brought to you. Thanks for the work of lead producer Katie Cooper associate producer Anzali Skipper and with video editing by Dante DeCicco and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown