Alex Wagner: An Unlawful Administration

U.S. voters abroad have you got your ballot yet? All states are now sending ballots to overseas voters. So if you want to vote this year, you should request your ballot right away. Go to votefromabroad.org and click "Request My Ballot". Ask to receive it by email. Questions? Ask our support team directly. Don't miss this chance to shape the future. Don't delay votefromabroad.org. [Music] Hello and welcome to the ballroom. Daily, I'm your host, Tim Miller. Excited to welcome back to the show. Host of the podcast, "Run Away Country", the cooking media. She writes on "Substack at How the Hell", dot, dot, dot, with Alex Wagner. And she's the author of a brand new book, "The Steel for Right Wing Hardliners," "Wonderpulking Presidency" and "The Raid on America's Core," "It's Alex Wagner." Oh, buddy. It's great to see you here. Welcome back. Thank you for doing this. We're doing this on Thursday evening, which I appreciate Alex doing because I'm flying very early tomorrow to Ohio for our Benefit Fundraise for the Haitian community. Amazing. If you guys cannot go and you want to support them, put the link in the show, the Haitian Community Help and Support Center. And I saw a number today on how much we've raised. It kind of blew me away, actually. So we appreciate the ballroom community very much. That's so awesome. You guys are an awesome community. You have awesome hosts. And that is the right thing to be doing right now. So we'll have a number for you all next week. But I think we'll be proud of us. But important work. And I've got a lot of rants to do. I've been building up on my rants for the show on Friday night. So you've got to carry me on the show on the rants. I love it. I'm ready. I can't, he ain't heavy. He's my whole work. I can't afford it. I got it. I got a couple of rants, just to be clear. But just not as many. I would have. I want to start with the war vote. And kind of like a niche, a thing that maybe I'm only interested in when it comes to the war vote, or maybe it's you. No. Because it was 50 to 49. I'm definitely. So in a situation where the war vote is 1549, every vote is really the deciding vote. Obviously, it was 50 against the war power's resolution that would have taken the war powers back to Congress where they exist. It's kind of unclear why that's needed. But whatever, it's either here or there. Almost all the Republicans voted against it. Still fully installed areas, Trump. But one of the deciding votes was former Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. And I want to show a real video of him going to vote to keep the war going today. A real video. A real video. Not AI. Senator McConnell, can you say anything to us? Or any word, any comment for the press. Even just the hello, sir. President Trump's been millions of dollars to remove Thomas Massey from Congress. Please think silent about Senator. Senator, any word for us. Have a good day, Senator. Senator about a news conference. You have one. He's Senator and April. He's Senator McConnell. For the listeners there, he does not move. His mouth stays open the whole time. Yeah. But no words come out. The soul is slowly escaping. Yeah. That weekend Mitch McConnell, he cast today that, whatever that is, human, quasi-human figure, cast the deciding vote to keep us on the Iran War today. I, okay, so I have thoughts on this. Okay, great. I mean, I think everybody in Kentucky should be super outraged. Thomas Massey should be most outraged of all. This person is a hollow vessel. But here's the thing, Tim. They all are. Like, does it matter if Mitch McConnell is a zucchini? Like, they're all zucchinis. They're all squash as far as I'm concerned. The idea that Bill Cassidy and John Corneon, and for that matter, Dan Sullivan and John Houston. But really the yolo, the yolo caucus of the Republican conference that has nothing left to lose here is still voting in support of a disastrous war that is likely to cost their party control of Congress. It's like, does it matter? Does it matter if you are functionally brain dead or not? Like, nobody's using whatever they got in their nogins at this point. Like, what's the point? Who cares? Yeah, well, we're doing vegetables. Bill Cassidy, I guess, would be is a husk of a man. Yeah. Because he was the last one to vote. Because he stalled. Because he hemmed in haundice. He's been doing people and saying Bill Cassidy's a deciding vote. Like I said, everyone was a deciding vote really. So that includes Mitch. And there didn't need to be kind of a stall for deliberation with Mitch. Because whoever is doing the voting for him just kind of just went up there and did it. I take it. I don't know. We're trying to find out the video. I mean, you couldn't say anything to the reporter. So could he say, I unclear? I guess the bell. I keep going back to the bell like breaking bad. You know, he does the bell for when he wants to yes or two bells for now. I don't know. Anyway, back to Cassidy, my senator. It's the same fucking thing. It's like several times this year where they've needed him where he kind of went back and forth. And then in the end, at the last second, John Barrasso talks to John Barrasso. It's actually a very compelling figure from with my own and and and built Cassidy votes to give the president, you know, continued, you know, unending powers for the stupid pointless war that don't have a plan to get out of. And then, you know, that doesn't take questions after it doesn't do anything. When he's asked, he's like, I got to go catch a plane. It's like, what do you do? What are you doing? What are you doing? John Kornin was literally castrated by this president. Yeah. Doesn't John Kornin back in Texas is having fundraisers for everybody except Ken Paxton, the man who replaced him on the ticket, because he's still so angry about it. And yet the architect of that becucking Donald Trump, he cannot bring himself to curtail his power in leading the party off the cliff. It like there is, I really do think there's a special place in hell for people who know better, and by and in this situation have the power to do something about it with almost no blowback. Like this is an issue that these guys once they have their like lucrative lobbying gigs after they leave the Senate are not going to be punished for. Like this is this is why they're doing it for awards, right? Like Cassidy wants to be able to call John Thin and John Burrassa again next year when he's good. He's you know, but I mean, I don't I think if they if they did a favor to the party in Congress and helped show that Republicans have a backbone, they wouldn't be punished for it on the back end after they leave. I just just the fear is so powerful. I guess that's the only thing that you can imagine. Can I also just say, please, I know every vote is a tie-breaking voter, whatever, but the fact that John Federman is the only Democrat to vote with the Republicans on this makes me extraordinarily worried about a very narrow Senate majority that keeps John Federman in the cat bird seat. Speaking of someone who is I do not think all there. Why Democrats got to win five? We're gonna get down to the Senate map in a second. Oh, well, that's kind of related. Well, let's write it. The Michigan Senate race is one of the key ones. And I was struck by an ad that Mike Rogers did this week about the war. And I did a whole other video in the text because this thing I rage be so much. If they want the long version, people can go do that. Where I went through all of these guys who are running now and coming up with different ways to try to tip toe away from the war. But the Rogers ad, I found the most interesting for a couple of reasons, which we'll talk about. Let's watch it together. Michigan families are struggling with the price of everyday life. Rosary's cost too much. We have to bring prices down. The war with Iran needs to end and end quickly. When it does, energy costs will plummet. But Michigan families can't afford to wait for that to happen. We need to do something now. What? You know what that is? What is that thing that Mike, are you doing a big reveal or do we get to say? No, no, no, we have to do something. What would we, what is the something? Mike Rogers, he used to want, and he's like, we got to do it kind of quickly. Mike Rogers is the biggest cheerleader for this war. I mean, Rogers was a huge, he's a huge aroundhawk. He was on Trump side and all of this. I'm back in May. He was talking about how, oh boy, they might keep the straight of hormones. And that would be a disaster. And so we've got that, he wanted to escalate in May. This is the time to take him out. Now the ad is, it needs to end and end quickly when it does. Energy cost will plummet. Was that true? Even doing, how? How? In fact, first of all, first of all, like the oil infrastructure has been so badly damaged. We won't go into the Saudi Arabian East West pipeline, which was like the only like alternative to the straight of hormones. I'm not a petrochemical engineer, but the destruction of that pipeline could be seen from space. It's going to take a minute. The refineries have been offline. I mean, we're just talking about elevated gas prices through 2027. If the war is even over by then, I mean, we're now at the point this, this may be a 2028 presidential election issue. Like, that's how bad it's going. Yeah. Like standing in first of all, you can almost see me like, well, how does this work? I walk in here and the food is available for free. Or do I pay for it? They put him in like a brand new vest because that I guess speaks grocery store sheet. Yeah. He's never gone grocery shopping in his life. He's like, do I look at how do I do? How do I decide how firm the produce is? What is it, tomato? Uh, he looks very uncomfortable. And I just, I love it though. I think they should put it on a bumper sticker. Like, I mean, it's just so deep. It's so Jonah. It's kind of like Jonah's campaign slogan. Something. What? TBD. TBD. Does my garage want us to end the blockade? He wants us to suspend diesel exports. I have no, nobody has a solution. Like, nobody has a solution because the only solution is one, I mean, whatever. I don't want to bigfoot you in geopolitics. But like, she's in ping is the key to maybe winding down the Iran war. And Donald Trump says that says that's off the table. We're not talking about that. No. No, we're too busy. We had some other things to talk to she about today. So they're walking around as I mentioned, we're taping this early evening. So they have the state dinner tonight, not in the ballroom. Ballroom isn't ready yet. That's sad. So we'll see how that goes. I mean, and if something really crazy happens, like Trump takes out his little penis or something, I don't know, like my fights early, but I will get up early enough to do like a little five minute topper on this. If something really crazy happens. But what's happened so far at the time of this taping, Trump showed the auto pen picture of Biden that he has in the hall of presidents, or whatever they created. And he was really kind of given a little jocular punch on the shoulder, and she kind of pretended to laugh at that. And then this was a big one. This is some Eric Doherty, who's one of the big Trump propagandists right now out there. He writes this. It's kind of a poor report of his own from today. Just in President Trump reveals President, she is a huge fan of his new helipad, because it's made of granite. He has a great interest in granite. He likes granite. He's an expert on stones, Trump said, and he loves a good granite. This might be Trump's favorite part of the entire visit, as he loves nothing more than presenting his construction projects to important people. It's beautiful. The White House needed this. The White House needed the big granite win in this debate. I mean, not, you know, access for soybean farmers, not new rules around AI, SI, excuse me, not tariff relief, not not not not going after she, but the fact that he helped Iran kill three American soldiers. None of that. The big win was the granite. >> It really does feel like maybe calculated sabotage at this point, right? Like to literally have the Chinese premiere there. At a moment when the essential issue is addressing what's happening in Iran, China is literally helping Iran target Americans and kill them. It's the major buyer of Iranian oil. They are helping the Iranians launder money from their oil sales. They are helping build chemical precursors for ballistic missiles that Iran is using. They're giving them drone parts. I mean, Iran is a client state of China at this point, and not only is the president not addressing that, but he's going back to the fucking hella pad. Like what an embarrassment. Also, they're wearing weirdly matching outfits in that whole little moment, which makes the whole thing even more sort of twin peaks. Like how could this surreality actually be playing out at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? >> It's really just mind-boggling that like this is happening. There's this old tweet from 2012 that Trump sent. Obviously, there's always a tweet about Obama and they had bugles, I guess, or something for she. And it's like this Trump was complaining about the bugles, but it's like the troops are on their knees as it comes down the plane. Again, Chairman Chi has been responsible for the deaths of our troops. They're prostrate in front of the red carpet. Trump's just showing off the making fun of Biden, showing off the granite, and like saying that AI, the AI stuff's cool, don't worry about it. I mean, it's just full prostrate giving into she and all Trump wants is like to feel like a fancy boy. >> I mean, I think it's almost treasonous, right? >> Well, you said he accused the media of treason during the trip. So the media, you and me, we're treasonous, the Kami leader, great, actually. Good bro. I love the Kami dictator that's helping kill our troops. The media covering what's happening treason. I don't know what words you want to call it, but it's not, it's certainly not pro-America. >> Can you imagine any other moment when literally the United States president is meeting with the head of a foreign country and the press of the foreign country can get into the White House, but not the American press. And the president is cow-towing both literally and figuratively waiting for him at the bottom of the steps of his plane as he arrives, like an eager beagle, and then giving him quarter and celebrating him as he is helping architect the deaths of American service people abroad. I mean, like, I can't think of any parallel. And if that's not treasonous, I don't know what is. >> This episode of the book is brought to you by our friends at Wildgrain. Wildgrain delivers sourdough bread, seasonal pastries, and french butter made by small independent bakeries right to your door. 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Pop it right in, nice and clean, tasty and yummy. If you're looking for an easy way to enjoy bakery quality food at home, I recommend giving Wildgrain a try. The fan favorite apple cider doughnuts, aforementioned, and other false seasonal products are back for limited time. So make sure you order them before they sell out. Visit wildgrain.com/thebork to get 30 bucks off your first box plus free croissants for life. Again, that's wildgrain.com/thebork for 30 bucks off your first box and free croissants for life or use promo code to the bulwark at checkout. I saw a funny chart. It was a Wall Street Journal checking this out, like what people in our business talk about, political podcasts. When other people analyze you, what's better than that? You know, you love it when to hear people talking about it. Yeah, the narcissism is in full flower, isn't it? The narcissism is that. What is it? Who was it? Was it Malcolm Gladwell? I think it was Malcolm Gladwell. It was like, if someone mentions your name across the room at a party, I give humans, like we're trained to catch that sound in a way that we would not be able to lock in on their conversation otherwise. Really? Yeah. So anyway, this is like that. Wall Street Journal was tracking 70,000 hours of podcasts, liberal podcasts, and conservative, and it's total mentions of Trump per hour. And by like the inauguration, for example, or the election, it was even. They're both the same. It was about 40 an hour during the election, and then about 25 an hour by the inauguration. Then it goes on, liberal, a little bit more. It could serve a little bit less. The Iran war starts. Now the conservative podcasts are mentioning him like never. And we're keeping steady over here. I assume that I assume I'm being counted in the liberal side. Sometimes I get miss miss. Sometimes people are, you know, misdiagnosed. Yeah, looking at the 2015 census when deciding where to put me. I mean, I think that is like very telling. I mean, if I'm running a conservative podcast today, like what do I even put on my rundown about the sheet Trump meeting? Like there's not there's nothing. I guess if you're in the total cult, you can do the granite, right? But if you're one step over from the cult, if you're Ben Shapiro, like you wish you're in a cult, but you have a little bit of policy ideologies are still thought of. What do you even talk about? Not you don't. You talk about the WNBA or what? You talk about Lindsey Clancy. I mean, that's like the other thing they tracked. They're like the engines of men's Lindsey Clancy, which is not like traditional manosphere fodder is getting more clicks than Donald Trump. To me, this tells me they're tuned out and turned off and they may not show up at the polls. Like this doesn't mean that they're all like suddenly, you know, Kamala Harris stands or whatever or all soft stands, I guess, more to the point. They are, they just want to pretend he doesn't exist anymore. And like that's a very bad look for a bunch of Republicans who are on the ticket in November. It's a long way to go. I mean, I guess eventually you can start talking about 2028, but Trump's going to delay that as long as possible. Yes. It's a long slog of writing, of doing podcasting if you're not wanting to talk about the president of the United States and you have a politics podcast. Yeah. Well, then you sort of try and find other men in the orbit that you can rail against. Like James Tolerico, who's like now catnip for right-wing manosphere podcasts. Let's talk about that race. I always hate to cheat on Sarah by talking about other focus groups, but it was a delicious New York Times focus group that asked, "These are Trump voters who are, I guess, are undecided or independent or something." They're Trump voters from 2024. Let's get into the specific candidates. When you hear the name compacts, it's what comes to mind. Crook, crook, crooked, bad, amoral, disgusting, morally corrupt, disgusting, corrupt bathrooms. There's one lady, and that was a good one for him because there's one lady that associated with him with protecting girls' bathrooms. That's the best interpretation of that. That was the best. She followed up. When you're saying disgusting, gross bathrooms, I don't think that that's a problem. I was wondering that, and so I went further and went around her follow-up. The deeper to the smarter take is you know what it's about. Her follow-up answer. I have very Tolerico-hopian pilled. He was up six in a Polaroid this week. A little birdie told me there's a super PAC coming in with huge money for him to soon, maybe next week. I think that the gap between Cruz and 18 and Paxton is the key thing. I don't Tolerico might be marginally better than Beto. The environment I think is marginally better. But pretty similar at the candidate. The gap between Cruz and Paxton, I think, is wider than people, particularly I left progressive people who, like, look at them and they're like, you're both gross and disgusting. But it's like I do think that that is that potentially might be the death note. Yeah, Ken Paxton, I mean, if you've ever heard him open his mouth, he's like the least compelling speaker and he doesn't even read Texas. Like that's the thing I don't get. It's one thing if someone's intensely charismatic and really can move the crowd and has an aw-shock's attitude that really plays well. He has no res at all whatsoever and also happens to be wildly corrupt and is known in the state of Texas for his corruption. So yeah, like I think he's a much weaker candidate than Greg Abbott or Ted Cruz or any prominent sort of Texan who has some baggage. Ken Paxton has nothing to offer either. I mean, like he's trying to make a late play on tracking the water usage of AI data centers. But the whole Republican 180 in Texas in particular on the issue of AI data centers, which is alarming people in that state and really animating them. I mean, for my podcast, I talked to a former Paxton staffer who's now dealing with the data center issue down there and is like, you don't even understand. This is, first of all, there's huge bipartisan support, real grassroots activism on it from the right and like Paxton and Abbott have been so on the wrong side of it and they're not assisted by the president who day after day continues to double down on his support of it. The Republican Party in Texas is coded pro AI. And that's a problem. The other thing that's interesting to play is Paxton wants to bait him, Tel Rico. And like just before we started, got on, Tel Rico is on stage somewhere in Texas and said that he is now challenging, is he a tripist? Yeah, he's a tripist. Yeah. So it says Texas Tribune in the background. Yeah. Shout out Evan. And he says, I wanted to bait him on Fox. You want to bait him anywhere else? I'll prove him. I'll go there. And I love this play and I thought it was the one thing that I really, that I think is underrated as a mistake of the Harris campaign strategy. People talk about the Rogan stuff and all that, but I was like, she should have accepted the Fox debate. And there's something about it. It toughens you up just by going totally. And it's really important for Tel Rico, I think, to do it too in specific and as it would have been important for Harris because they've been the victims of like undo sort of shaming around how tough they are and in Tel Rico's case, like what kind of man is he? So to say, I'm going into the lion's den, come meet me there, bitch, is good. Good luck. That's good. U.S. voters abroad. Have you got your ballot yet? Go to votefromabroad.org and click, request my ballot, ask to receive it by email. Questions? Don't delay. Votefromabroad.org. At the other story, I had Mary Peltola on the podcast yesterday, which was interesting. Timing was interesting. You know, sometimes podcast magic and the timing, you know, sometimes the fates work for you on timing and other times, not quite as much. Anyway, you've seen the New York Times story. I'm curious your thoughts because you were, you went a little bit separate from some of your pod cohort over there on Platner. He a little harder on him than they were. I don't want to compare Platner's behavior to Peltola's at all. Yeah. I just kept to call. I was, I understood the appeal of Platner and I just always was like, there's just something that rubs me maybe the wrong way about this guy and then turns out that that was maybe the correct line of thinking when it came to that. You were alone on that instinct to just, you happen to be alone, you had, it was a female instinct mostly, voluntarily, but a lot. The Peltola thing, obviously different. I think you hear some people in the discourse being like, every boss is terrible in DC. You only hear this about Amy Klobuchar. You only hear this about women and there's a sexist element to it. But some of that, you know, there's some people like these me included, which is like some of these, whoever leaked the screenshot of the text where she said retard or whatever. And then I know, I'm knowing, it was the scrub's lines on the, so some scrubs reference. I nothing you. I nothing you. And then the staff hurt it and then leaked it. I'm like, sorry. You can't, you can't hurt the text and then leave it. You can't go silent and then be in dignity. Okay. Love it. What? Anyway. What was your overall take on? I don't like this story, Tim. You don't. I do not like this story. I mean, I like, I do agree we judge women harshly and sometimes asymmetrically in terms of like how they deal with their time and power compared to men, but I don't know like using the F word, not fuck the other one to slur gay people saying like, fuck these bitches. And I hope that woman dies from a botched abortion. Like those are sole corroding say lines, that's not that cool. That is not. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. And like getting physical with your staff, even if nobody gets hurt, it's just, I have, you know, we work with people. I've had people that work for me in like, you know, push their produce on the circus. I'm not absolutely not. Not what? That, I mean, now watch someone's going to be like, bitch, push me. No. You can't. And listen. Bell's grill during the circus where there was a very nearly a gay push. There was very nearly a gay push. Yeah, it's one thing if you are having a debate with someone, but the power dynamic is such that these are staffers that are literally cowering in fear. Some of them are like, they're talking about the strain. The other part that disturbs me is it's not one or two. It's multiple waves of staffers are trying to leave the office. I just, I don't like this story. I don't. I think it does not reflect well on her. You know, it's a real shame that this is how she conducts herself in private. Like it's, it's, it's, it's not good. That's my attitude. It's not good. I don't know. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Like I genuinely believe that women get a rough ride and a wrong ride a lot of times. But this is just alarming behavior and you, you can't say this stuff. I appreciate that. You can't do this stuff. I don't disagree. I don't like the timing. I don't know. There's something about that I don't like. The timing is sus. I don't like the timing at all. It feels very, very apo research like nice try like September 23rd or whenever this went to file. But like no, that part is very questionable. That part is max of, you know, the Sullivan campaign. Yeah. I hate Dan Sullivan so much is also part of my blind. You know, it's kind of a family feud element of it. Like he was one of my kind of Republicans back then in the old census, dead named Tim. You know, like my friends consulted for him. Like I don't want to pretend like we were pals or whatever, but like that was my, you know, he was a national security, you know, kind of conservative on social issues. It wasn't really his thing kind of Republican, you know, and it's like, and now you're just sitting there quietly while Donald Trump gets down against the Iran or authorization. Yeah. And like you're the, you're guy, you're president. It's like getting on his knees for the Chinese Communist and you don't say anything. You don't disinterest. Anyway. And this is how the brains work. And this is what rationalization is, right? So I appreciate that you didn't check her code out. Well, but I will say, you know, I guess people are bringing up the specter of Amy Klobuchar and the salad with the comb. That did not diminish her political career. No. And she rode her toughness right the fuck back maybe into the governor's seat, come November. Yeah. I think this probably helps in Alaska too because the other thing is Alaska, you know, just to make up and all that in some of these states, if you're a Democrat, you know, there's the balance right. You're trying to win over spring voters. You're all trying to to galvanize your base. It's not like there's huge college campuses or whatever or people are going to be a fat. You know what I mean? In Alaska, right? Fisherman. Yeah. I think they've got bigger problems. People paying 26, 82 for gas or whatever she said they were paying and some of them are bigger fish to fry quite literally. There we go. That's what I was looking for. You flagged for me a story that I've not covered. I've had it text a couple of times and it's only since from just like it's hard to read a follow exactly what's happening. But the Riverside County Sheriff Chad Bianco. He's also a key as a candidate for governor in California, right wing guy, a court forced him to return 650,000 ballots he had seized 650,000. I don't like that sentence, ballots he had seized from election officials as part of an investigation and a voter fraud that had no basis in fact going to other officials. What's happening here? He was going to have his deputies count the ballots because his tinfoil-hatred election conspiracist allies in the state were like they counted more votes than were actually registered. Now apparently there may have been a discrepancy of up to 100 votes. We talk about the first round of the governor's race or are we going back? Sorry, this is for a measure to do the blue gerrymander of the California congressional districts. It was to redraw the state's congressional maps to give Democrats a five-seat advantage or to capture five more seats. And it passed in Riverside County, I think by 56%, it passed statewide in California by 64%. And that really pissed off conservatives in Riverside County, including and especially chef Brad, Chad, sorry, Chad, Cion. Brad and Chad, whatever. It's really tomato tomato. Exactly. And what's alarming to me about this is like I am worried genuinely about the chain of custody after the midterm election balance are cast. I'm worried about the chicaneery inside the machinery of government around the counting and the certification. I just worry about that. And the fact that this, you know, jabroni and Riverside County on a whim on his unilaterally decided he was going to seize up, you know, three quarters of a million ballots. have his deputies go over and it got them. Like seized the ballots. Like I just, I worry that we're gonna be on November 5th being like, oh shit, remember? When they showed us what they were gonna do and we didn't pay attention, it is, I am less worried about violence at the polls and like direct voter intimidation and way more worried about the fact that there are Trump election deniers at every level of the government including and especially the Department of Homeland Security and that they're gonna be able to manipulate the system or cry foul even obviously when there isn't any to undermine confidence in the results and throw certification into question. Like I just, that's the part of all of this that I worry about and this story to me gives me chills. I mean, he's been ordered to return the ballots but like, you know, this is of a suite with the FBI seizing the 2020 ballots in Georgia and the data in Arizona and the interviewing of election officials in Wisconsin. I mean, the like, wing and monkeys have been flapping all over this country and there's some strategizing a foot. - And it didn't work. So I've always had two minds about all this stuff, right? So like, they keep failing. So I just think that's important to say. That doesn't mean that we're not worried about it or monitoring on the other side of that coin. This story finds something that I do worry about that I don't feel like I talk about very much. So I think it's worth sort of hashing over a little bit which is a lot of times the discussions of the threats of this top down Trump administration, nefarious, ice at the ballot box, et cetera. But like, it's been since 2020 now, this is the third election cycle and there's just been a lot of turnover in random ass jobs, like election official jobs, county leadership and particularly red states, red places, sheriffs and if you look at the playing field for these center races, we're just talking about Texas. I think about how many counties are in Texas? Think about how many fucking lunatic, magas, sheriffs and election officials there are in random counties in East Texas, like between Houston and Louisiana border, obviously West Texas, like a lot, a lot. And a lot of votes there. It's not dense, but if you add it all up, it's a lot of territory, a lot of votes. And that is something, like troublemaking kind of bottom up. It suddenly doesn't get quite as much attention and I think this is a good example. I know that Mark Lies and all these guys are looking at all that, but I do think that's a concern. And that's something everybody can do in their community, particularly if you're in a red community. It's like, it's being a poll watcher, keeping an eye. - Take an interest. Also take an interest in who is running the elections, who the sheriff is, you know, it's important to know who these actors are. You know, Texas is gonna be a close race. - Really close. That's the thing that we're, I just keep coming back to it. Like if the Senate hinges on Tallarika's 2020-2000 vote win, that's a real dicey scenario. - US voters abroad, have you got your ballot yet? So if you wanna vote this year, you should request your ballot right away. Go to votefromrabraud.org and click request my ballot as to receive it by email. Questions? Don't delay, votefromrabraud.org. - I'm talking about the courts. I'm talking about what's happening right now at the courts and we'll get to your book. I'm gonna go backwards in time, a little bit too. The Alito Thomas thing is interesting. I saw our mutual pal Chris Hayes tweeted that he would be not surprised if one of them retired if the Democrats do get the 52, a big enough Senate majority. - I've been saying this. I think I told Chris that. - Okay, so he stole that, take from you. - Yes, I've been talking about this in seasonally for the last two and a half weeks. - He is a take thief. - He really is. - Ed Wielin, I have a couple of things about Ed Wielin. Fielin don't know him. He's an interesting character. He's like a courts conservative, courts policy guy. He swims in the Federalist Circle, a Federal Society, excuse me, world, a very conservative guy. But I guess he's had taken some few principled stands on a few things when, you know, right, he's gone crazy. So I watch his feed just kind of is like a, this guy is way more right than I am on court stuff that generally a fair broker. And it was interesting that he responded to Chris saying, "He would be surprised." He doesn't think that they're gonna retire. And so who knows? But I just thought that was interesting, 'cause he might be in a position to hear. I do wonder if the hubris of Thomas and Alito is greater. The ego and the hubris is greater than like the practical judgment. - Well, it would appear as yes, right? It's just kind of such an outrageous possibility that in a season of outrage, we have to entertain it. I mean, it's hard for me to imagine that a 76 year old man who's really close to retirement is just gonna bet on father time not coming and waving his siphon, his direction in the next 10 years. I mean, 'cause that's truly like a possibility. If Democrats win the Senate and then there is a Democratic president for two terms, which is totally within the realm of possibility. - Wow, okay. - Well, I'm just saying, if you're literally making the calculation, they're like-- - We're just trying to get through tomorrow, baby. You think that Democrats are gonna have it to the decade bringing-- - If you're a lifetime appointee, if you're part of the council of elders that's steering this country off the cliff, then like you do have to consider this. Also with the example of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, it's like, that has to echo in the back of their increasingly hollow minds. And I just think Alito has become such a partisan and such an operator in service of a deeply conservative agenda. It's just hard for me to imagine he's not considering it. Having said that, it would be such a catastrophic blow to norms and I think it would really up end business in the Senate. If John Thune and the Lackies on the Judiciary Committee move forward with the Supreme Court nomination process in the lame duck session of Congress, like hello DC statehood, hello Puerto Rico statehood, goodbye filibuster, like it's all on the table because there will be retribution when the Senate goes into Democratic House. I mean, I just think it's an interesting thought exercise to imagine what the consequences of that action would be. And by the way, Democrats should start saying it just to dissuade these justices from retiring 'cause they do absolutely pay attention to politics. - I agree, Democrats should start saying it. It's interesting to think of it. Now I don't know which I'm rooting for. - You want them to go hand. - I like the payback. I like the idea of the payback. But also, I like the idea of Democratic president and these guys starting to have regrets as they start to age about the choice that they made and who their replacement, whose hands or replacement would be in. It's interesting exercise. I don't know, Alito's wife is a total lunatic. - Yes, both of their wives, Jenny Thomas. - Oh my God, I mean, Jenny Thomas should be in jail. So I guess we should throw that out there. I mean, Jenny Thomas was actively plotting to overturn the democracy of the country. It's pretty strange that current Thomas is still on the Supreme Court. That's one of my rants for a while. I don't ever talk about this anymore, but it's not, thank you for letting me bring it back up. It's like-- - I could talk about it for a while. - They talk about it at the dinner table. I mean, she was planning a coup and one of the nine Supreme Court justices was sleeping in the same bed with her. Maybe they have a loosey and dusty situation. I don't know, but they had a lot of FaceTime. When I assumed the coup she was plotting was, you know, came up from time to time. - Just like the giant insurrection that's flagged that was being flown over the beach house at the Alito House. Like, he did not notice that. These guys, as I talk about in my new book, Tim, are dyed in the wool partisan warriors. Like, they have been hiding behind originalism, but they don't even try and do that anymore. They're just out there in those streets trying to move the country ever rightward. - The other thing we don't set-- I'm gonna go back to the rest of the book stuff, is this. Sure hope that Senate ours are making plans to confirm all remading judicial nominees during host election lame duck period. The prospect that Dems will in control of the Senate seems increasingly likely. It might not happen, but best to be prepared if it does. That's interesting advice. But I think we're at this point now. We're like, the Democrats aren't gonna confirm anybody. - Right. - Or do you think that they're still, we're still in old 2018 mode where we're gonna cut a deal. We're gonna cut a grand bargain with John Thun and blah, blah, blah. - I don't think so. I mean, I think there are two data points. Is Chuck Schumer still gonna be majority leader if they win the Senate? I don't know. But like the fact that they were willing to shut down the government over ice killings and Obamacare subsidy is expiring. Timmy says they have some fight in them. And they're gonna have to get their shit together if they wanna win the presidency in 2028 and show that they have some gumption. So like if a leader or Thomas retires or dies or someone dies, they should keep that seat open. - Right. - And it can be a five, three majority. - Obviously. - Yeah, but I wonder what it looks like. - And like, same, right? - No, they shouldn't confirm. I mean, listen, I'm someone that thinks that like, after they started slaughtering Americans in the streets and the fact that they're trying to destroy black and brown lives across the country, is reason enough to hold all funding up. Like the sins being done in our name are like far exceed whatever the sort of normal parliamentary procedure for federal funding is. So yeah, I mean, I take a more, I think radical view on all of this. But yeah, I mean, this is an unlawful administration that has no business appointing anyone who's supposed to oversee the judicial branch. - I'm not telling you. I think that that's what they're gonna be. We'll see. That'll be something we'll monitor closely. U.S. voters abroad. Go to votefromabraud.org and click Request My ballot as to receive it by email. Questions? Don't delay. Votefromabraud.org. Give us the elevator pitch for the book and I've got a couple of things I want to chat with you about. So I am insensed obviously by the injustice of the judicial branch and I wanted to get at the sort of origin story of how it became such a partisan battlefield and specifically how the right launched a heist to take the Supreme Court that we are now, you know, a stolen court that we are now living in. I say stolen because it's so at odds with American public opinion and the direction I think most Americans want the country to go in and they're unanswered. They answered to no one. I get shit from this from my former public eye not anymore but like I because I was saying this a couple of years ago when I was, you know, still, you know, I had like the normal Republicans would quote tweet me and dunk on me and go try to go back and they've all I'm the lost cause to everybody now so they don't nobody notices their carousel and I say I should like this but I they literally stole a seat. Yeah. Like if you look at Garland versus Ginsburg and like it was the same situation as actually a worse situation. I was like much closer to the election. Ginsburg died. They replaced one. They didn't replace the other. Like it should be fire. It just should be five four. Like that's period. And can I just say, who did Obama nominate to Phil Scalia see Merrick Garland, a member of the Federalist Society and a Republican as a hack tip to fucking Republicans. So like don't at me that this is a dual like, you know, bastardization of the independence of the judicial branch. Like conservatives have been much more cutthroat about making ensuring their justice is passed a conservative litmus test. So the book really traces the origin of these essential organizations who help shape this moment and this court, including the birth of the Federalist Society, the birth of the moral majority, the birth of the Heritage Foundation. And it tells that story through the plot of four henchmen of the apocalypse, Robert Bork, Edmys, Paul Weirich and Joe Kors who together function as a kind of cracker jack squad that launches a strategy to make the court in conservative image. And to launch a legal theory by which they can unwind decades of social uncivil rights progress with the deep pockets of Joe Kors and others who make it all possible. It's really a heist story, Tim. I like heist movies. It's a New York Times bestseller. People like reading it. Someone told me it's like a beach read for politics. Like, it's a readable story. It's not, you'll laugh, you'll cry. It's propulsive. I do like emotional, I don't know about being on an emotional journey when thinking about the downfall of our public. Because I grew up in Republican circles, I know quite a bit about me, Sin Weirich and Bork, those who don't, should purchase the book and they can learn more. I wanted to talk a little bit more about Joe Kors because he's fellow Colorado. I've drank their beer a few times. Pete Kors, is that nephew, son? Pete is the, I believe, the nephew of Joe Joe. Yeah, nephew. So I got to know him a little bit. He ran a horrific campaign for Senate God 20 years ago now, probably. And there are other Kors kind of doubtting around. But I didn't, I just couldn't pull for my memory like exactly what Joe's role in all this was. So why don't you just impart a little bit of knowledge on us on that? Joe and Bill Kors are both about racists, paranoid conspiracists who believe zip codes are an insidious government plot. They are so racist. I'm intrigued by that theory. Well, I mean, it's the only thing he was right on. But they enclosed literature from the racist John Birch Society along with Kors employee paychecks. In the 1960s, they are very anti-civil rights. They say explicitly if the Civil Rights Act passes, we're going to have to fire a bunch of you and hire blacks in your place like explicitly racist. Kors is radicalized in the 60s by both civil rights progress and by what he sees happening in neighboring California with student protests and sit-ins and Berkeley. And he thinks academia has become liberal, his liberalism run amok. Something needs to be done to stop these professors and their long-haired students from destroying the American legacy. And so he takes the money that he's made from Kors Bir and he starts funneling it into conservative causes. And one of the causes he funnels it into is a nascent organization created by Paul Wyrek, who is not a household name but is really, really should be. I mean, he's a brilliant mastermind of the right. He's starting. He wants to start a think tank that will answer the think tanks on the left and help hold squish conservatives into to account once they get elected. And he comes up with a name for this organization and it's called the Heritage Foundation. And heritage not hate. Yeah. And he's the money man. He's the money man. And he funds other organizations, but he's a key player in getting these things off the ground. And Wyrek and Kors work in tandem a lot and together help create the modern day arch conservative movement within the Republican Party. All right. So you went back and learned all of this. You learned all the dirty tricks. It took a long time. I know. And you know, it's kind of like an ocean's 13 type things. We wish to go should go read it. And it will be made into a movie, Jesse Eisenberg. I mean, people say I mean, that's I'm manifesting. I think it should be. You could Melissa Murray thinks Jesse Eisenberg could play Paul Wyrek. Paul Wyrek is so ugly. Paul Wyrek looks like an Easter egg. Everyone's more beautiful on screen than they are. Yeah. Okay. Like Paul GMati to play. Paul GMati could play. Oh, I don't think. No, Edmese needs to be played by Philipsy More Hoffman Reston piece. All right. I forget what Edmese looks like. Oh, yeah. That's right. Mr. Potato had blonde from Oakland, but with a real punitive streak. Yeah. Edmese is kind of a beast of love of a face. Is he? Yeah. In fact, he was one of the signers to the Amicus brief filed with Eileen Cannon that said that the special counsel Jack Smith had no business taking Trump to court for the Mar-a-Lago documents scandal, which she listened to and dismissed the case. Still messing with our lives. Love that. Love that he's still around. Edmese, our board's dead. Sorry. Rob. It's okay. We'll keep it in. Edmese, Bob Bork's dead. 2002. Bob Bork is also still messing with our heads and different. He's also a really at Paul GMati could definitely play ball, Wyrek and Mark. He can play Paul GMati could play. Yeah. Absolutely. When Eddie Murphy plays like multiple like the 90 professor, when he plays like multiple characters, he can have Paul GMati. You're a Martin Short. Like doesn't Martin Short do a lot of different characters? Okay. Here's a big question that you got, though, which is like, all right, Democrats. Now what? All right. So they got behind the ball. There's going to be a lot of proposals out there. A lot of this stuff is a little bit of, we're in Dreamland. But like, what is realistic? Like what dream, I guess? What is a realistic dream? Dream with me, but don't be crazy. You dream on the and the vis-a-vis the courts or just general. I think they got a really look. I mean, I am old enough. It's hard for it to not be in La La Land. But do you remember when Rick Perry was in favor of Supreme Court like term limits? Do you remember that? You probably don't. I remember. It was like the one good idea Rick Perry ever had. I don't remember that. That sounds like a John Huntsman idea than a Rick Perry idea. It was a Rick Perry idea. I'm pretty positive as a Rick Perry idea. I like it. The idea that the course of American history is being dictated by the planking routine of some octogenarians is not what the Founding Fathers imagined. This was my problem with RBG, hey, geography. We should not be worried about the health of old, I mean, we should be worried about the health of our elders period. But the aging process should not have a direct impact on the course of this country. It is the worst kind of gerontocracy ever. Something needs to be done. I think that they should really look at court expansion. I mean, they stole a seat. So take two more. It's good for the goose. It's good for the gander kind of two geese. I don't know. I mean, I just think we're living in desperate times. They're doing things that are at odds with wildly at odds, with both the health and safety and desires of the American public. Yeah, I don't know. That's not one of my buddies today. He's a little non-political. I understand this feeling. For people who don't like listen to our podcasts and aren't fully consumed in all the details and the back and forth, and don't know the history of unfit foul play, right? I think that there's a tiredness now from some people. And this is what Biden tapped into in 2020. It was this tiredness. It was like, hey, let's restore the soul of America, right? And I think that I get that. I get why people want that. But that's just not what we are. There has to be recompense. They just does. I don't see any other way. The worry then is that it's an endless cycle and that we know we're just kind of punching each other as we decline the American Republic. And this is a nice way to end the Friday podcast for the Bullwork. But do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I would just say, if it's just for partisan gain, then yeah, I will be an honest. Some of it will be partisan punchback, but some of it should just be shoring up the institutions to make them strong enough, so that it's not just norm and protocol and tradition that determine whether our democracy survives. Just the light times on this Friday. - Do you have anything else? - We're gonna talk about our sex podcast that we're gonna launch in January of 20, 27. - 9, 7? Sex podcast, yeah, I guess, email the email list. I wanna see what kind of questions we wanna get. - Is that like a Dr. Drew thing? Or is that are we, what are we doing? Is that okay? - How many times do I have to pitch this to you? We are looking at American life through the lens of sex, which is very, it is the thing that animates. I mean, it animates arguably the entire, like, manosphere, it animates like what's happening down in Texas, both Paxton and Tallerico. It animates what's happening in Alaska with Mary Peltola. Gender is a, you know, gender and sex are forever co-mingled. Like, it is, like, I would argue the animating force in American life right now. And that's-- - So it's not like-- - And then you know, whatever, no. Nobody has to talk about like reverse cowgirl if they don't want to. - Well, maybe people do want that. - Well, maybe there will be time for that, but it doesn't have to be an ex-rated podcast. It's just gonna be a different way in, a portal in to all the stuff that's happening. I think your husband will be fine with it. - Yeah, I know, but I want it to be good, you know, and for it to be good. - Well, it can be juicy too. - It can be good to get people to want to listen. - We can talk about Lindsey Clancy as well. - I don't know anything about that. - What? - I just, every once in a while, don't you see a news thing that comes by that you're just like, I'm checking out of this one. And I just like, Amanda killed their kids. It was too depressing. - It's very depressing. - And I read like one tweet about it, and then I just, I do have an ability. I learned, when Trump won the first time, I went and got a yoga practice going. - You know, Clint, yoga law. - This does not attract Trina. - Trina, I did. And one of the things might, whatever you call it, yoga teacher, Jamila, on the weekends, one thing she taught me was kind of the ability, you know, an extra layer of compartmentalization of your site and yours. - That's not what yoga teachers are supposed to teach you. - Okay, well, this was a little bit of a woo-woo yoga class. And I got very good at blocking out certain sounds. Like, should we do the breathing, the exercises, but it was like, don't listen, you know, stop hearing the air conditioner or the bird or the taunting. And so I learned how to do that. And I've incorporated it into my news consumption life, where everyone's like, I'll see a word like Clancy and my brain just does, I pray, just shuts it off. It's just like, I see nothing on this. And then I just keep on moving. So I really, I don't even know what happened. The kids died and she got off. It's like, I guess. - Well, it's, yeah, it was in the declared a mistrial, but it just raises, there's a deep gender divide over whether or not a woman would do this because she had severe postpartum depression or whether she's a murderous villain. - Yeah, yeah, I'm sitting now and out. You know, I think, maybe, I mean, I don't know that Lindsey Clancy fits in with sex, but gender is part of it. But also, you know, we could also just talk about Ken Paxson's wife divorcing him on biblical grounds and what that really might mean. - Ken Paxson and Blundin with a side piece. - I'm just saying there's stuff to talk about. - What's happening? Why is, why is Barclay and Mullen grooming with Jason Watz's name from Oklahoma? Who's obviously, that's a weird suggestion. - I mean, someone requested John Ausef and asked if he had BDE and he was like, what, my brother? - And some of the calls to John, Josh Hawley, and asked him about Carlos, the bus boy. - So. - Let's talk about, okay, we'll talk about it. We'll think about it. We'll learn more. We're brainstorming. We're brainstorming. JBL would be very jealous if we did it together. I guess the one thing. So we might have to have a rotating set of hosts. The JBL's wife might, okay, whatever my, we're ending the show now, I told you, I told you this podcast is gonna get me into trouble. Okay, that's Alex Wagner. Everybody, have a great weekend as great as possible. I'm gonna be in Ohio. What's up? Come say hey if you're in Dayton and that we'll see you all back on Monday. Thanks Alex. Bye everybody. - Thanks Dan. ♪ I'll see you all day ♪ ♪ World in love ♪ ♪ I'll never see ♪ ♪ I'll fly ♪ ♪ That's free ♪ ♪ I'll see you all day ♪ ♪ I'll see you all day ♪ - The Bullwork Daily is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Anzali Skipper, and with video editing by Dante DeCicco and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.