Alex Ely, Mae Architects “In the early years I was more of a chess master….now I am more like a gardener.”

Hello everyone, welcome to your coach on the couch, I'm Rachel and I'm on my own just at the moment, as I wanted to do a quick introduction to a conversation which Louise and I recorded a couple of weeks ago with Alex Eley, founder of Architect May and just by way of background a couple of years ago I did a piece of research with brand and strategist and communications consultant Emma Keat into the evolution of architectural practices and we were interested in the different stages of startup emergence, arrival and then maturity and succession and particularly curious about what led to the continued success of some practices while others seem to fade away and we spoke to over 50 practices over about 18 months and re-perjournal then asked us to write up the work in a series of four articles which were published over the summer last year, so 2020 and we'll put a link to those in the notes and Louise and I spoke with three of the Architects Journal 40 under 40 practices in one of our episodes last year and they were McCloomachemwa, Jazz Barler and Archio who are quite different stages but all quite early on in their evolution from startup through to the more established Archio and we've also spoken to the likes of Grimshaw about succession since they're much more established and much later on in their journey, so as May is celebrating their 20th anniversary this year, it seemed like an opportunity to pick up on some of those themes associated with leadership as the practice materials, so there's three themes I think to listen out for in here, the shift from individual to collective thought and energy, the broadening of interests and the moment of reflection and regrouping, anyway let's jump into the conversation with Alex, enjoy. Hi Alex, good to see you. Hi Louise, hi Rachel. Morning, how are you? Very good. Good, we're very glad that you've joined us this morning but before we get into anything else we have to chat couches, so please tell us something interesting about your couch. Well I'm not actually sitting on a couch as you can see, I'm on the rather beautiful laminar easy chair which I only actually got a couch a couple of years ago for the first time but this is a design classic, it was designed in 1956 by Ingba Ekstrom and it's frequently vated the most comfortable armchair in Sweden and it's very beautiful design, it's laminated timber frame with as you can see over my shoulder rather lovely sheet skin covering and it's for me it says everything about good design, it's elegant, ergonomic, beautiful to look at, incredibly comfortable and it sort of balances, I suppose, many of the things that we try and achieve in architecture actually, the idea of good functionalism with something that can really uplift the spirit and deliver comfort and improve quality of life. Oh, thank you Alex, I like what you did there, ending in May philosophy with your choice of chair not couch but we'll let you off. Alex, you founded May 20 years ago, so happy anniversary, happy birthday and you've built a successful practice which has a residential architecture specialism and specifically affordable housing but your reputation extends beyond this specialism and these shores indeed, you're one of the mayor's design afficates and have served and served on several review and policy panels and you're also frequent speaker at national and international urban and design forums and I happen to know because we've chatted before that you have projects that are definitely not on these shores which we may come on to. We're starting to reach out internationally, we've got leads on work in Russia and Italy but for the last 20 years very much been a London focus practice and it's our home territory, it's a place we know really well, it's a city I love and we work closely with local authorities across London and some private clients. Just going to take you back to that 20th anniversary Alex because that's the reason that we invited you on today and we're really curious about the significance of that to you which will kind of come back to you but for now we're going to ask you just to catch your mind back to 20 years ago and just start talking about what was the impetus for setting up a practice? Well, often I think it's not unusual that businesses arrive through an opportunity and I had just recently qualified and had an invitation to design a house for family member and it seemed an opportunity I couldn't pass up but at the same time I was really aware, I'd worked for a couple of practices to gain my qualification and it struck me that there were very few practitioners with a real design focus on housing and I seem to be a bit of a gap in the market for architects who wanted to do high quality affordable housing and it was also at a time when actually there was sort of changing landscape in terms of authorities and clients who were commissioning good design and delivering social housing. That social housing has been was cut to the bones in the 70s and 80s and really is only just now seeing a proper revival. I was actually working in the social housing sector in the 90s so I remember the housing associations were actually being amongst I would say the most innovative developers of new housing at the time. I seem to remember at hide housing there was a passive house scheme and I had to get my head around what that meant and that would have been in 96, 97 so a long time ago so you know that decision to focus on a particular specialism. Do you think that that is one of the secrets of May's success? Well I'd say we're generalists with some particular areas of specialism so social housing being one of them low energy housing or low energy design being another social infrastructure being another. Perhaps more broadly though I guess it was an interest in sort of following the modernists really the social idealism that architecture can strive for. So I perhaps it was more an interest in public sector work and how architecture could contribute to the betterment of society and improvement of quality of life and our housing is obviously a large vehicle to achieving that with directly affecting people's lives who we're designing for and also the sort of modernists although they had wonderful ideals in terms of how architecture can improve society. I think we've certainly learned that some of their visions in terms of placemaking and urbanism have struggled to meet those aspirations. So a lot of what we're doing is looking at housing estates that are either at the end of their lives or suffering huge problems and trying to create better housing either through infill and intensification or through redevelopment with resident support and engagement but I think yeah returning to your point about specialism I think that the housing is a skill that we've developed and a knowledge base we've developed but perhaps the specialism is more about understanding the public sector and how to design well for society. I think that the specialism and generalism with architectural practices is quite a decision this night. Has it always worked for you? Well our early work was quite broad so we were doing private one-off houses or refurbishments and for me it wasn't fulfilling and so I made a conscious effort to push back on that which meant we needed more patience and more determination to try and win public sector work which is incredibly difficult especially as the young practice with no track record. The hurdles you have to get through to prove yourself are enormous. So we our early work was some private housing we had some lovely artist studios we were designing we did a chapel and cemetery early days we did a mobile house which kind of rethought how housing is in terms of the planning legislation and we had sort of projects that were always perhaps testing new ground and pushing boundaries but then once we started to understand a system for procuring and winning public sector housing then that sort of grew and I guess became the bulk of what we do as a practitioner. In terms of leadership and having to and we're not having to but building a team around you that shares that kind of social housing social building impetus did you find it I'm just wondering whether it was limited whether you reduced the talent pool that you could recruit from or whether it was a bit restrictive for young talent coming in, even now. - Well, interestingly, in education, there's been a shift towards housing being on the agenda, again, in the last 20 years since May formed. So we're actually finding a lot of graduates and we're very lucky that I teach with my colleague Michael at London Metropolitan University. In fact, I founded the practice with a previous Michael, Michael Howe, and we taught at Greenwich together. And then subsequently, I've been teaching with other colleagues, including Michael Dillon, and we're lucky enough to bring graduates that we teach into the firm. And actually, I think there are many students who really interested in designing good housing. So we haven't found a limitation at all on recruitment. It's certainly not as glamorous as designing galleries and museums and large civic buildings, perhaps. But I think we find our students who are very engaged in it in terms of the contribution they can make to society, but it's also a challenging design question because effectively, we're not just designing individual units that are stacked up. We're thinking about how communities are enabled and come together and how the social infrastructure around housing can be designed well. - Louise mentioned the L word, the leadership, which of course is what we're all about. I know that many founders, when they set out with a practice, perhaps don't view themselves as leaders, it's more about getting the architecture side. I just wonder how that's developed for you over the 20 years. - Well, in my early years, I'd probably say that I was perhaps more of a chess master. My job was to sort of control the organization, control more of the output. We were a small team, so I had to be very hands-on with everything and take responsibility for everything. I think as we've grown, I've really become more like a gardener. I'm enabling rather than directing. And I'd say that now I have to be a, so eyes on that hands-off enabler, sort of guiding, supporting, mentoring my team, setting the vision, setting the strategy, and making sure that we're always, our focus is always on our goals as a business, which is around social, sustainable, and spatial architecture. But yeah, definitely as we've grown my roles shifted, and I've got a huge and brilliant team around me who are hardworking, committed, but creative, bring many different skills that I lack, actually. But it does mean I can sort of at least look at the broader picture and the strategy for the business, and have confidence in my colleagues who can be more detail-focused. - From Chestmaster to Gardner, I really like those metaphors. I think it is something that many leaders in our sector struggle with, that kind of getting the balance right between still making sure that the work that's done is kind of distinctive and fits with the ethos of the practice, but actually taking that time out to focus on strategy and visioning for the future. Wish you must have done quite a lot of recently. I know that you saw a series of posts in LinkedIn where you talked about some of your early projects. You've been very conscious of this 20-year milestone, I think, haven't you Alex? - Yeah, well, we're putting together a book that tries to celebrate what we've achieved in 20 years, called "To Water Resilient Architecture", and it started out being a bit of a catalog in a sense, but I suppose as I was looking back more and more, I was trying to find the common threads between our projects. And that principle and that focus on social goals and sustainable goals have always been there. And what we're trying to capture at the end of 20 years is a reflection on the characteristics and qualities of those projects that we should turn the volume up on and consolidate and move forward with. Because inevitably as a young practice, you experiment, you explore areas, you test boundaries, all your creative ideas are flowing. And that's not to say that as we've grown, we've become more limiting, but we've identified what I guess our priorities are as a practice and how to achieve them. So going forward, my focus is very much on environmentally responsible architecture and housing, pioneering more in terms of low energy housing, but also things like the circular economy, which we've been exploring at our Sands and Arts Project. So building on what we've achieved, but really trying to give it more focus, I guess. Because it feels like what you've just said there, and it's almost like you're drawing a line. And I wonder and sort of distilling what you've done today and then projecting forward. And I'm wondering if the milestone of 20 years was part of your thinking in doing that, or whether it felt like a natural time to do that? - I think drawing a line sounds a bit finite. I'm not sure that that is the case. It's trying to step back and reflect and draw observations and identify threads through our work. I mean, going back to that point about being eyes on and hands off, I'm not didactic architect. Sitting in an entelier with a couple of assistants where I'm drawing everything and control of everything. I take on creative individuals because of their talent, because of their ideas, it's for me the best ideas win. And so therefore, while there are common threads and there's a strong identity to our work, come from many hands. And so what I'm able to do now is sort of pull out the things that I think are the real strengths in our work. And the things that I want to develop further and build on. So I suppose it's a bit more about consolidation, maybe stepping up or moving on to that next step. - Yes, that's right. I think that's where I was coming from. You know, 20 years, I think a practice feels, it's maybe mature, it feels like the right time to pause and reflect. - Yeah, I think we've got something to say as a practice. - And so that's what I'm focusing on, is saying that actually we've got ideas in a way of approaching architecture that can make a difference. And I want to be more vocal about that. And so even though I'm proud of each project and many projects have got recognition and awards, it's about saying actually what is the identity of them, what's the collective identity that best reflects what May is about and so that other people know what we're about. But also inspire the new generation joining our practice. I'm looking at kind of rethinking how the senior management team works so that there's more sense of ownership in the business. And that in a sense, it's really important. And I don't doubt that they don't, they already, I'm sure kind of buy into the vision of the practice, but it's certainly about embedding it more fully, say that my senior management team can also advocate for the practice in the way that I do. - I've got a question Alex, as you were talking, I was curious about, I mean, I have read stuff that you've written. I know you do a lot of speaking. You're an incredibly, you take a very thoughtful, you kind of semi-academic as well as design-oriented approach to the work that you do. I wondered how that's kind of shared within the practice and particularly with that leadership team. And is there a risk that, you know, if you're becoming the thinker and everybody else being the doers? Do you know what I mean? That's an extreme way of putting it. But how do you involve other people in this discussion, live discussion about the future of the practice and the future of architecture and the role of architecture and has that been very difficult over the last 18 months? I think that's my question. - Yeah, well, I think critical to your observation is to value colleagues' ideas so that they're not just doers. They feel they're creatively contributing to the outcome and that they will be heard whatever level. So I think creativity or job titles and hierarchy are kind of meaningless in terms of when it comes to creative inspiration. It's really important that we create an environment in the office that anyone feels they can bring forward ideas and thinking and so I'd say we're all thinkers in that regard as well as doers. Now, my role has been slightly broader in the sense that I worked for the commission for architecture and the built environment for a number of years and that opened my eyes to how architects can influence a much bigger industry than beyond the buildings we design. So I got heavily involved in policy, development and still involved in that world. So I suppose that does set me apart in a sense from my colleagues and that I'm more politically engaged but as a group of thinkers, as to say, I've already mentioned my colleagues, colleagues of mine teach with me at London Met, we use that word. set as a research arm of the practice, we make sure that knowledge comes back into the practice. And so I, and then if we have commissions to do writing or reports or guidance, again, I will engage colleagues in that. And more and more I'm asking colleagues to speak on public platforms and be on steering boards and so steering groups that instead of just me doing that sort of work. And I think we have one last question. Rachel, would you like to ask that one? Alex, I'm wondering now you're sort of 20 years in to the practice. What advice you would give to your younger self? You're on the honest answer. Yeah, I'm glad I said, set up young and when I did because I think my naivety and my recklessness or the fact that you're prepared to take risks at a young age. So it's not so much recklessness, is it? Because I've always kind of taken my responsibilities seriously, but you're prepared to take risks and you've got nothing to lose because you're not earning very much as a young graduate anyway, so why not earn nothing doing it yourself. And so I think I'm glad I set up when I did because I think it would have been harder to step away from another practice later. The advice I would have given myself as a younger architect, perhaps, well, things I'm doing now really, listening more to colleagues, being more open about collaboration, understanding different team members strengths and weaknesses and helping either them build on those strengths, overcome those weaknesses, but also recognise my fallibility and areas that I need to sort of either bring on board others who have different areas of expertise and knowledge. And also I think reach out more. In the early days, we did sort of reach a number of practices to collaborate with, and that's been a hugely important part of our practice. And I could have perhaps done that earlier, I think. So moving from chess master to Gardner, perhaps a little bit earlier, but it hasn't done the only harm doing it the way that you've done it. So that was a great answer, Alex. Thank you very much. Lots of you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in from. Great. Definitely. That brings us to a close. Thank you very much. One two three. All right. Thank you, Alex.