22: Alex Discusses Working in Academic Advising & Ted Discusses Working in Anti-Money Laundering

Welcome to the HDFS Careers Podcast, the podcast featuring informal conversations with family science majors about their professional journeys. My name is Erica Jordan. Today, I'll be sharing my interview with Alex Silvario and Ted Martin. I reached out to Dr. Kathy Walker and Dr. Maureen Blankamire at Kent State University and they referred me to Alex. Thanks for the recommendation. And speaking to Alex, I realized that her partner Ted was also an HDFS major and thought it would be fun to include him in the interview. So we have our first ever double interview episode on the podcast. Alex is currently an academic advisor for the College of Communication and Information at Kent State University. She earned a master's degree in higher education administration and student affairs, a certificate in international education, and a bachelor's degree in human development and family studies with a concentration in family life education from Kent State University. Ted is currently a senior anti-money laundering compliance analyst. He earned a bachelor's degree in human development and family studies with a concentration in child and youth development from Kent State University. Alex and Ted met at Kent State while attending HDFS classes for their major and serving as resident advisors in the campus residence halls. As is true for all interviews on the podcast, Alex and Ted's views are their own as private citizens and do not reflect the views of their current former or future employers. Without further ado, here is their interview. Welcome to the podcast, Alex and Ted. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much for being here and spending some of your day off with me. I'm really excited to share your stories with students across the country. I know that they will really enjoy hearing about your HDFS journey. How did you first find the field of HDFS? Originally, I actually hadn't heard of HDFS when I started college and I started as a psychology major. Going through some coursework, I decided to switch to HDFS because I heard about it and it's still met with my goals. Originally, I wanted to be a counselor, so it's going to go into my master's afterwards. I thought that the HDFS profession had more opportunities for careers once I graduated, so I made the switch. But yeah, I didn't really know about it until I was in. I think it was my academic advisor that informed me of the HDFS major. Yeah, for me, it's kind of like the same thing. I also started as a psych major. But I did keep my psych major. Do it switch or anything. I just added on the HDFS major as well. But the reason I knew about it, and I remember this was kind of odd. I remember I was at the cafeteria place and the hub at my university and they had a little pamphlet of it. I'm in each individual table. I guess they were maybe advertising the major or something like that. That's how I heard about it. I was like, "Oh, what is this?" I just started reading about it and I was like, "Huh, this looks kind of interesting and it looks very similar to also like what I was already doing with psychology." And I was looking to double major. I just didn't know in what. And so this was like, "Well, this is kind of similar. And maybe I won't have to take any other additional courses on top of what I've already taken." And so it just kind of all fit together. So yeah, I think I met, I don't honestly don't remember if I met with an advisor. I must have met with an advisor to sort of, you know, get everything together. But yeah, that's kind of how that started. I'm sure universities will be happy to know that all of that marketing material that they're working on actually works and that their advisors also help to refer like in the case of you, Ted. You said you were looking to double major. That's interesting. So what was your motivation, you know, to kind of say, "I want a double major even though I don't even know what the second major will be at?" I think, honestly, that was more of a push from still when I was in high school. I just remember it all, like everyone was just like, "Oh, you know, when you go to college, you have to like major and then have either two minors or like double major." And that was the sort of like the expectation that my high school had for students. And so that was like kind of part of it. Because I don't think anyone that I actually befriended in college, you know, was having sort of like, "Yeah, you know, they were kind of thinking about, like, "Yeah, maybe I'll do a minor, maybe not." Like, you know, it was whatever. But for me, it was just like, "I have to do it." Yeah, it wasn't sort of an option. Yeah, so- Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, that makes total sense. Well, they'll be happy to know that they were successful in pushing you to add on additional work. No, it's great that you found a major that really compliments, complimented your interest. And you're right. I mean, they're both pretty broad of fields, but definitely HDFS kind of feels like more of a subset, you know, especially in terms of psychology within that field. Yeah, I think so too. And with Ken's, I don't know if they do this now, but at least when we went to school, we were able to pick also like concentrations within the major. I don't know if I remember my concentration. I think if you family something, oh my gosh, Dr. Blake Mayer is going to yell at me. Probably not. And when you graduate, all of this that flies out your hand. Yeah, but no, that is true. Like, yeah, you can actually pick special days within as well. So tell me a little bit about your experience in the major. So, you know, what did you really enjoy about the courses? I mean, even if they're things that maybe you didn't like as much about the courses, you can feel free to share that as well. But just anything that you want to share about your experience, taking the classes and being within the major. Overall, and it's been a while since I've been a college. So some of it is fuzzy. And I changed career paths quite a bit. So a lot of that knowledge hasn't been used a lot recently. But from what I remember, I did like the major in the classes and stuff. I think I had a much more, more of a focus on like the like helping us back. Well, I guess that's the whole point of the major. It's to help or help people. But specifically, I was looking for like more information on how to like better like kids and adolescents because I wanted to do counseling. So classes that more aligned with that were what interest me a lot. And I think it was nice because everyone had a really friendly sort of atmosphere to them in the major. But one thing I do remember is that there aren't really many men in the major at all. I think there were like maybe four of us in my like graduating class. And we all knew each other because there were four of us. So it would be really cool to see the major develop more and maybe get more like men into the field and stuff because I think a lot of like helping professionals. There aren't as many men, which is fine. But I don't know, it would be interesting to see if more could come in. But yeah, that was definitely a standout for me. I'm so glad you brought that up because yeah, and we see this in psychology too. I mean, it is overwhelmingly female dominated now, which is sort of ironic because it wasn't that way before. But yeah, it's so it's interesting hearing your experience as a man in within the field. And I think that a lot of people across the country can not their head at that because many of the classes, many of the HDFS majors across the country are pretty female dominated. But it sounds like overall, you found the content interesting. Yeah, no, it was definitely interesting. And I liked it a lot. Everyone was really nice to me and you know, the content was what I was looking for. So I had a good time. Good. What about you, Alex? Yeah, so for me, I think, I don't know, like I mean, I just found the classes interesting. I mean, the content I guess specifically, you know, I took classes with, I think you mentioned, you know, both Dr. Blackmayer and Dr. Walker. And I mean, both of them were my favorite people, you know, in the program and everything. And so I mean, I remember Dr. Blackmayer, she had a lot of classes that were because she was the, I guess, kind of like the head of the concentration that was pursuing that I can't remember what the name of the concentration was. And so I just, I remember really enjoying her classes. And I think, I mean, really, honestly, she was kind of the person that pushed me into really kind of wanting to pursue getting a master's degree, which I mean, maybe we'll get to that in a minute, but I mean, it had been, I think she really kind of saw, I don't know, like I mean, potential or, you know, whatever. And so she was the one that was like, yeah, no, you should definitely pursue this, like you would be really good at, you know, just kind of getting further with your education and everything. So I am forever thankful for that. So she was super nice about that. And then the other thing that I really enjoyed about the class is specifically, maybe it was, I don't know if it was just the one class that Dr. Walker taught and I just, I don't remember the name of the classes, unfortunately, but it was kind of almost like a class that was how to, you know, be an adult kind of like input your information like out there, you know, as far as like resume and just kind of like be a professional in general because I don't think that there's a lot of that with other majors really you know like I mean really how to build a resume and how to put yourself out there and like you know just kind of get recognized so I think that class really really helped with with with everything and as far as like job seeking and I mean it was it was awesome so I really enjoy that part and then the other thing that I really liked was that at least back then like when we were in school I think that's changed a little bit was that as part of the curriculum we had to do like a practicum or an internship which I mean I know that that's something that's more like I think a lot of schools are doing that across the board already but at least when I was in school which I mean really wasn't that long ago but like I graduated in 2015 with my undergrad but I remember with my psychology major we didn't have to do an internship where a practicum as part of our program and so I don't know like I feel like I really had to sort seek out opportunities myself and I mean not that that was I guess particularly difficult but it was just like I mean if you didn't have that motivation then you know it was just like well good luck but with the with the program at least with HDFS it can't I mean that was one of the things that we had to do like we had to have a practicum experience internship experience and so I think that kind of also just kind of helped you know kind of build a resume and build just ourselves as professionals which I really kind of really like yeah yeah it sounds like you were able to really make some personal connections with the faculty members and then you really had a sense of you and your professional goals and were able to help you know push you once they saw that potential and they saw that motivation and I agree like any class that is helping the prep students for the workforce I'm 100% behind it I have put a lot of energy into our course like that at the University of Houston and it's the reason I do this podcast as well just because I just don't feel like there's enough information out there especially related to our major it can be overwhelming to students to know that they can go so many different directions that didn't know how to pursue them and it can be overwhelming to faculty and many of you may not have not worked as much and in any other sort of industry it can be overwhelming to them to like you know prepare students but I feel like we really need to lean into that role and it sounds like your faculty at Kinstay did a really good job at taking that challenge on yeah but can you all tell me a little bit about the internships that you chose during your senior year? Yeah I can go so what I did was I ended up working alongside a school counselor and basically I would shut over and like help out with things here and there it was a very different I think internship than a lot of other people had it was kind of like tailored to me in a lot of ways so it was very interesting and I got to see a lot of the aspects of like you know the ins and outs of like what a counselor would do I guess in a school setting in their career which was I think a really good thing for me because I especially since I was so like dedicated into going into the counseling field it was nice to be able to see that before I started my masters because typically with counseling you don't really get to see that sort of stuff and tell your and your masters since you need like the license and whatever else to actually do counseling so getting that kind of like early access in a way to seeing what that field was like was really good and I did enjoy the internship a lot I think it helped me develop as a person and just like brought in my view on the whole field but yeah I definitely had a very good time and I think it was really good to be able to put that on my resume as like an experience I'd had because I mean like Alex was saying I mean you don't have to do internships in maybe other fields but and I guess this was a practicum more specifically but just having that extra leg up was definitely I think a good thing for me overall and just hope but you were just shadowing that like you were also doing stuff with the kids that I thought yeah I mean I wasn't just shadowing there are some things I was doing I helped a lot with basically they had like a few classes for students that have like behavioral issues and things like that and I worked with those students a lot so the shadowing as you said just seeing behind the scenes and getting that access you always end up learning something from it and then if you were working with children who had any sort of behavioral challenges then definitely is an experience in what you're learning a lot of a lot of patients and working with people and managing difficult situations so that pretty much helps in any field that you're working with people at all so what about you Alex what about your experience with internship or practicum? Yeah so I worked with a nonprofit organization and what they did it was a lot of stuff that they did with families that were kind of like in the northern part of Akron because that's where they were located at Akron, Ohio so that's where we are kind of in that area and they did a lot of like you know getting stuff over to like donate to like families especially like families with the had younger children they did parenting classes as well for families they did work with what was it like they did pregnancy testing for some recent as well and also I'm trying to remember also what what else they like we were working on with the families and everything but but the parenting classes were one of the things I kind of like stuck out to me because when we were basically like in charge of teaching those which was scary because I was like I'm not wearing so that was an experience on its own but I don't remember that we also worked a lot with immigrant families because in that northern part of the city there is a lot of refugees immigrants that live there and that I enjoyed quite a bit just because I was actually born in Mexico myself and I didn't come to the US until I was 13 and so yeah I feel like I don't know it's just kind of easy to make those kind of connections with other immigrants and people that have moved to the US and so that I enjoyed a lot and I mean that's something that I've all like a throughout my career I guess I've sort of stopped so with the parenting class I mean you touched on something that I think a lot of students find themselves in this situation right I definitely found myself in this situation sometimes it would be really funny but anyway so how did you cope with you know the fact that you are not a parent and it can be intimidating walking into a group of parents and you're supposed to be leading a parent in class how did you how did you deal with that as a student yeah well I guess with the situation that I was in I wasn't the only intern or you know person that was in there that was also from Ken through like I mean I think there were four of us total three of us were from Ken to another person was in another institution like they were studying in another institution but it was also HCFS so I think we just kind of leaned into each other for support and that I mean again none of us were parents at the time or anything like that I mean literally we were all senior students you know trying to again just kind of help out these parents and in leading with these classes but I think it was just kind of nice to have that support I mean and then like our supervisors you know they were also really kind I think and you know just sort of they knew how to train us I guess in the right way so that you know we wouldn't be again as intimidated I mean I was always like I think a little scared because just like what am I doing but yeah I don't know I think that it was mostly that having that support with the other students that I was working with and you know just kind of being there for each other I am a parent now but I'm always still a little nervous when I go to leave one of those workshops because I've been in and I've let enough of them so I know sometimes I can't predict what is going to happen or what somebody's gonna say yeah I've never really truly goes away did you all do anything else during college like were you involved in any organizations on campus or off campus did you have to work during college tell me a little bit more about your college experience yeah so I was actually and this is well I don't know I mean we met through the major but also RAs yeah so we met like through our work as RAs but like we were also in a lot of the same classes together you know because of those two things we spent a lot of time together and got to know each other that way yeah right yeah but yeah but we were both like RAs and so I think that that was just another connection that we had yeah so that was your part-time job during school okay and anything else like you were during during your college years your what's involved with doing some work for the psychology department and I remember I was working under a professor, but I was also helping out some graduate students. They were doing some work, like a research project. It was a research project of sorts that I was involved with, so that was also kind of taking a little bit of time. So I think those two things plus school were kind of the the main things. What about you, Ted? Any other organizations or anything like outside of your RA and classes? Right, so I didn't have like any like extra curriculars or clubs or anything I was involved in. After I finished my, so I was an RA for two years, my sophomore year, my junior year of college, and then senior year we moved into like apartments because I only had to do one semester, my senior year. So I actually got out a semester early and then we ended up doing as I was working for child guidance and family solutions and I was the medical records clerk, so sort of like a secretary sort of position, but I mean it gave me the opportunity to talk with a lot of the counselors as well and get to know them, so that was good for me. So since we were going to transition into that anyway, how did you go about pursuing that job or finding that job after graduation? Yeah, so I think if I'm remembering correctly what happened was, so I mentioned before that the practice come I did for school, essentially that was facilitated through the organization child guidance and family solutions and they were the ones that kind of like set me with a counselor to shadow because the school counselor officially I think worked for child guidance and family solutions, she was just stationed in the school, but from there and I think when I was applying for practice comes I was again focusing on like trying to find something with counseling and we had, I want to say there was like a fair of sorts where we met people that have gone through the program before and talked about things they did and someone recommended child guidance and family solutions to me as a company I might be interested in talking to, so I reached out to them and they kind of like gave me that practice come opportunity and from there I learned of some of their like postings they had for jobs, so I picked up the medical records job later on as just a way to make money, that's how I kind of got into all of that, so originally just searching for an internship and working with them, you know kind of gave me the connections to get a job with them, and like yeah we hear all the time you know practicum or internship can kind of open the door towards a full time position, so it sounds like you did a good job you had it, I mean you established yourself as a strong contributor during that practicum experience and so that really led you to have an opportunity later with the company, it's awesome, okay so Alex what about you, so as your approaching graduation what do you think you're gonna do after graduation and then what do you actually end up doing after graduation because sometimes that doesn't always match, yeah so I mean I think tonight we're really kind of following the same kind of path and journey as far as what we thought we were gonna be doing, so I knew that I wanted to pursue higher education and just kind of like in my master's degree and I wanted to do that with therapy, like I wanted to pursue like a field in therapy, I specifically wanted to do like marriage counseling and so I mean I applied to a couple places and I did get into the places that I applied to and everything but I wanted to have a little bit of a break in between like I didn't want to go straight from undergrad to getting a master's degree so I was like okay well mummy I'm just gonna do like a semester off and then I'll you know go back in the fall which I technically do some measures since we can like spring and summer anyway, so so yeah so I wanted to work and I actually ended up working also a childgains and family solutions by just kind of like it was unrelated for me and I guess maybe I should go back to the practicum that I did because I don't know why they took us to childgains and family solutions to like do something with them or just to know about them or something I don't remember what the scenario was that we ended up there but I did make I remember a connection at childgidance with a woman that worked there as a case manager and so she kind of like told me about there was a position that was open and so she's like oh you should apply a little bit you know like I think you know you'd be like good for it they were also looking for someone that spoke Spanish and so I mean everything sort of like lined up together and I was like okay cool yeah we'll go ahead and and apply to that and so yeah I was actually I got the job and so I was with them doing case management for I'm gonna say about six months and then I transitioned to another position within childgidance as well and I was doing admissions instead of case management and I really I enjoyed admissions quite a bit but I think that had a lot to do with like I just had a really good team of people that I was working with and I also wasn't going you know kind of like from place to place I was just kind of like staying in the same area too which I enjoyed I mean I I liked the case management position but it was just I just felt like you were doing a lot you go from like one place to another like seeing different people and just kind of having to do um what's it called the like hours the production yes like having to do protect yeah productivity you know having those hours in and everything I mean it was kind of it was it was very stressful and so it was just like oh yeah I don't know that I wouldn't be doing this um you know for two two months or so yeah that I imagine that that would be stressful so you move over to admissions and then you're just basically I guess checking people in any office when they do show work right yeah so yeah basically you know if people wanted um services you know we were talking with them you know to make that initial assessment of like okay so what are your needs so these are the counselors I have expertise in doing you know anxiety or like depression or you know whatever um so yeah so that's what my role was in in that and it's just kind of like talking to the clients that were incoming and then assessing the need and also putting them with the appropriate person that would best fit what they were looking for and then also as far as ages as well of the of the children because um some counselors were like okay like I can't see teens but not like little children or like things like that so it was just kind of like uh starting to figure out matchmaking that's making exactly you know what that's for for them um and then we also got referrals from hospitals um you know I mean some of the clients that we saw you know had been at the like at the hospitals and so we had to you know get them in you know like as soon as possible with people and things like that um we were also get referrals from um like an institution that work with like international people too again I love working with with them like like by name and everything so like that was kind of nice to to work with them um and then of course and I was kind of like the designated person to we're like people that were coming in um like Hispanic clients you know they would be like okay yeah she gets a big advantage okay and I mean so you also have some similar experience too um you stayed there two years and then but you mentioned at some point you knew you wanted to go back and get your masters and so how do you decide this is the right time to do that and when do you end up going back to get that okay so as I was you know like I said I said move to admissions that that was kind of like the point where I was just like okay I don't think I actually want to do counseling anymore so you know I like I went through my my application from the school that I was going to go and to to get um that masters degree and I was for the the two we like a year and I don't know nine months or something like that I was like I don't actually know what I want to do but I mean so I just stayed there and just kind of you know what's starting to figure out what to actually end up pursuing um but while I was there um one of the people that was um I forget I think they were they were also kind of like a cleric of sorts or like they had a secretary of position um in the in the office that I was working with um because there were several offices so like ten and I were working in the same office like he was working in another office and it was working in like the central office um but the person that was there uh he was going to get his degree like his master's degree in higher ed and so it just kind of went full circle because I mean again so we were both arrays right at like a it can't um and but I just had no idea that you know like beating an array was just kind of this part of being Like more focused into that higher field and so we don't know what I thought. I mean, I thought that honestly, people that we're doing higher at work were going there to literally just be wrestling's hall directors. That was my impression of what the higher it field was. I had no idea that you could do other stuff. That's what it was just never like, "Yeah, no, I don't want to pursue higher it or anything like that." But then I met Derek, who's the person that was working at Child Guidance, and he explained everything to me. He was just like, "No, I don't know. Highly says all the things that you can do with higher ed." I mean, right now, I think he is in a position right now. He's the director of "I forget which student activity of sorts." I spoke with him a lot more about what the program was, or what he was going into. It just finally all clicked together, and I was like, "That sounds awesome." Yeah, so you think it's co-worker through your current job, and just by again talking, even that working internally, you'll learn about this program. And you are right. Higher ed, I mean, the degree is a bit obscure if you're not in it. I mean, it is one of those things that we're you kind of wonder, I don't know what it's really about, but yeah, by talking to this co-worker, you're able to learn more about the field, and it just clicks in terms of something that's interesting. So that's really cool. So you decide to go ahead and apply, and you get into the program. Did you only apply to that one particular program at Kent? Yeah, so what I am actually doing, I did work outside of child guidance for, again, it was just like an extra period of time, like as I was kind of like applying and everything for that, like sure period time, like I knew it wasn't going to be like a long term kind of thing, and so that's why it was just like, okay, I'm going to be doing this for this amount of time, but I do, you know, I was just playing on going to school basically like full-time at that point. And so you were able to go ahead and go to school full-time, or did you end up still keeping that other job for a little while? Yeah, so I was going to school full-time at that point, but I got graduate assistantship, which kind of helped with that, because that was one of the things, again, just kind of keeping that of like, okay, I need to, like I want to get experience, it just kind of be involved in everything. What I liked about the program at Kent was that in order to basically be part of the program, you have to have a GA, like you will not get admitted if you were not in like, you know. So they want you to be full-time, and so they give you this support. That's really pretty cool actually, because it can be rare to find GA positions at a master's program. So that's actually pretty neat, even though yeah, you have to be dedicated to focusing primarily on that program. Yeah. And so what was your experience in the program like? I mean, I really had a really good experience, honestly, again, I did like, I mean, that was one of the reasons why I pursued the program with Kent. I mean, it was, I mean, I already been to Kent as an undergrad, but I mean, it was just kind of nice to see that, oh, okay, so they are offering this sort of, you know, ability to be able to be part of the program, and then also gain experience, working in the field as you are, you know, going through the two years. So that was super neat, and then on top of having the GA, the program also requires you to have a minimum of two internships, also, you know, within the field and everything. And so that, I mean, that was just super helpful to just kind of finding what I wanted to do. Like, I mean, I knew that going in, I mean, I was seeking out the international education certificate, as I was, you know, pursuing, 'cause I still wanted to work with international students. And I still, that's something that I feel like I'm going to try to still pursue in some way or another, because it's kind of like the population that it's like, yes, they are my, my, my nation who I want to to be working with. But I don't know, like, I mean, I had a really excellent experience. I mean, I ended up having, I think, a total of three internships with the program, just the way that I was able to scatter them out. And what were those internships were they? Like, what was the nature of the three different internships? Yeah, so the internships that I did, one of them was in another institution. So it was with Mount Union, or the University of Mount Union, which is also in Ohio here, like in Northeast Ohio. And I was doing career, like, the career advising, like, career counseling, I guess, with, with them, that was the, the position that I was with, and it was with a private institution. So that was super different, so then working with Kent, because, you know, Kent is a public institution. And so very different kind of feel and everything. So that was really neat to just kind of have that experience with a different type of institution. And then during the summer, I was doing academic advising actually with the College of the Arts. So that's kind of what drew me in. And I was like, yeah, I think this is what I want to do for sure. Like, I mean, I loved it. I was so, like, into it. And it was so nice to, you know, again, the team was super supportive. And this happened all during the pandemic, of course. And so that was the whole, like, different experiences to how we would have, you know, normally happened. But I mean, it was still really, really good. And then the other internship, what did this I do? My last internship. But you also were given some of the office of diversity outreach and development and then international admissions with, okay. Wow. Yeah. So that's what it was. So my GA was with, with DoD. So the grocery outreach and development. That was my GA. And what I was doing, basically, the full entire two years that I was in my program. And then international admissions, I can't believe that just like, skip my brain. Because it's a weekend and we're all tired. Yeah. So that was what I did as my third internship. And that was during the fall. Also, everything was remote. Again, I mean, I really only did about, I don't know, probably like, a third of my program in person. And then everything else just kind of switched to being remote. And so challenging. That's so challenging. But it's still amazing that you managed to, it's amazing. I think that they required two internships. And it's amazing that you were able to get three with two of them during the pandemic. Yeah. It's pretty incredible. I feel like I'm sort of special award for that. I don't know. That's great. Could you tell me a little bit of international education certificate? Yeah. So with that, I basically, you know, took a lot of course work related to internationalization. But I guess specifically within higher ed. And so, you know, I had a really wonderful professor, Dr. Merrill, who's all into that. I mean, she's kind of pioneered. I think a lot of the work that's really been done like outside of the US and even within US institutions. And so I don't know, I just learned a lot from her as far as what other institutions are doing to sort of internationalize themselves. You know, just being more open to students that are coming in and what sort of, you know, changes really kind of need to happen within higher ed in order to, you know, be able to, again, just, just help out, you know, the students that are, you know, sometimes a lot of schools are just like, yeah, you know, we're bringing all this like it's students, but like we don't have the right supports for them or anything like that. And especially, you know, when you're in a situation like what we were, well, still sort of bar. You know, with a pandemic, and sometimes when you have, you know, your political, like, situations in the country, you know, that is saying, like, oh, yeah, please come here and like, you know, steady for us. But, you know, a lot of the political situation is just kind of not like that and not friendly towards people that are from outside the country. And so that is kind of like looking at that lens and just, you know, how to make those changes in a manner that, you know, they'll be able to help our international students achieve their goals and just kind of, you know, be successful, basically. Yeah, so student success specifically for international students. It's with a specific focus emphasis on, yeah, internationally. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to shift over to Ted for a little bit. So Ted, like, when did you decide, like, you're going to make the kind of shift out of your current role, you know, so you're working in medical records. And then you decide, it's fine. It seems like you enjoyed it fine. But what kind of led you to make a shift? Right. So I don't know. It's well, I do. It's kind of like all jumbled up there. Let's see. So basically what happened was I graduated from college and then I was working as a medical records clerk and I just transitioned into full time in that position. We both applied to go into school and were accepted. So I was going to go into like the clinical mental health program. And I'll expect out. And then I was like, I don't know. So I bet not too. But like, I think a lot of it had to do with for me, because my reasons, I think we're different. I was more concerned about like my financial state because I had acquired a lot of loans in my undergrad. And I couldn't get any sort of scholarships or GAs or anything like that for the master's program I was going into. So like, I was worried about having like an overwhelming amount of debt. And I think more than just like, it's not that I didn't wanna do counseling anymore. I just, I was afraid of being straddled was a lot of debt. And I learned more about like, you know, how much counselors might make. And it's really not, for how much I would have and that it wasn't going to be good enough. So my original thought was like, all right, we'll take a break. I'll try to get some money, pay off some of my loans and then maybe go back in or maybe do something else. So it's working in medical records for a while. And then to try to diversify what I was doing, I transitioned in the same company to a billing specialist role, which is basically like handling insurance claims and things like that because I wanted to get more into like detail-oriented work 'cause I thought it would look good at my resume. And that was fine. It definitely wasn't what I wanted to do for a long time. And then I started applying to other jobs kind of all over the place. Well, a bunch of different things kind of whatever I could and ended up having a recruiter reach out to me for what I'm doing now, which is anti-money laundering compliance. So very, very different from what I had been doing. But I think with that particular opportunity, they reached out to me because I had just a bachelor's in general, they weren't looking for anything specific. And because I had some detail-oriented work under my belt. So I applied to that position, took the interview, and I'm like, "Ah, there's no way I'm gonna get this job." It's like, it's way different than what I have like, you know, a skill set in from like college and stuff, but they ended up hiring me. So I've been doing that. And it's been interesting. It's obviously very different from what I was doing, but it's rewarding work in its own way. And I'm definitely content with it now. Do I want to keep doing anti-money laundering compliance? I don't know, maybe, we'll see. But I don't know where I wanna go right now. But I've got to hear more about this. I mean, it's so interesting. First of all, I love hearing about all different types of jobs because I tell my students all the time, most people are employed in jobs that you've never heard of. Like, you grow up hearing about like five different jobs. And the vast majority of the world, they're doing things that we haven't heard of, but I have to hear like, so what is your day to day like? Like, what is the scope of the typical scope of the job? Like, what is your role involved? I'm so curious about this. - Right, so also I'm gonna start abbreviating stuff. So anti-money laundering compliance is commonly referred to as AML. So I'll probably turn that just to make things a bit easier 'cause anti-money laundering compliance is a mouthful. But yeah, so basically in an AML role, what you do is you monitor transactions for suspicious activity. So basically, it's a lot of spreadsheets looking at data and saying like, you know, is this out of pattern for what I would expect? And the company I work for, it's AML rights sources, the name of the company, and basically how they operate is we provide AML services to other companies. So we contract out to various like banks, Fintech companies, things like that, and then we do work for them. So in my day, a lot of what I deal with is though, like things will get alerted as potentially suspicious due to like an algorithm they have in place. And I'll look at it and see like, you know, is this suspicious? Is this like money laundering? Is this fraudulent activity? And a lot of times it's actually quite obvious. People don't always try to hide their tracks as much as you might think. And then if I determine like, okay, yeah, like this is like they're clearly doing something fraudulent here or they're clearly doing money laundering, what I'll do is I'll write a report on that activity, basically summarizing, you know, what I saw, the transactions, the dates that were involved, you know, why I think it's suspicious? And then that report goes to Finson, which is our, it's like the country's like anti-money laundering, financial department where they like it, a whole ton of reports on like potential money laundering and they look at them and they keep like records on them. So I don't actually get to see like the end result. It's not as if I'm like writing a report on someone and then like I see like, ah, yes, they got, they got in jail for the thing they did or whatever, but essentially the government can use it and law enforcement utilizes it to, you know, help catch criminals. And I think one of the more interesting aspects of AML work is you get to work on some like stuff where maybe you didn't think it was like all that high risk, but it could be. So there are stuff you do for like potential terrorists financing to help prevent that. And sometimes something that looks weird, you might just report it as like, hey, this is like unusual. And law enforcement might have like a whole profile in this person. It might be like the last piece they needed to like piece something together of like, hey, they're actually trying to do something bad here. And I think like the other thing that I like is, we also do reports on like potential human trafficking. And the cool thing about reports on human trafficking is it can really bolster a case to help people out of those situations. So one of the biggest issues when you're trying to like convict someone of human trafficking is there often isn't a ton of substantial evidence. And it becomes as like he said, she's that sort of situation. But with these reports, what you can show is like, hey, like this person is being trafficked. Like they're bringing in all this money. And they're like funneling it all like this one person. But then they're only like buying like really cheap food. They're staying at like way too many hotels all over the place. And like that sort of record creates a story that they can use in courts that hopefully, convict the traffickers, get them in jail, and like find help for the victims. So back to kind of what I did originally, I feel like at least what I'm doing while I might not see the direct effects of the reports I'm putting in like, maybe I am helping people. Maybe I thought like this is unusual. And what I led to is like finding out someone was like, you know, doing something terrible. And no, maybe they're help. Yeah, it's it's a lot. There's a lot to it. That's fascinating. And like, yeah, no, you just solve really huge problems. Like you have to have really big teams and everybody doing their part to work together. And in the end, even if you're not the one directly working with the person, like you're still protecting society and protecting individuals. So yeah, I think that's definitely helping people. Yeah, that's really, really fascinating. And I'm also curious because you didn't have a minor before. I think a lot of times, students, and even people wanted to change careers, I think that they get become intimidated because they feel like, well, I don't have the degree in this. You know, I would think a lot of people would think that you have to have like a business degree or finding a degree or something. I know that you were able to attain some experience when you were working in that billing department that was a little bit related. But can you tell me a little bit about how you learned how to do the role because it didn't sound like you had extensive training and data analytics before? Right, yeah. So as far as like the billing specialist job, I don't think that was like terribly involved. And like you can get those jobs without degrees. But as for like the AML job I do, like they do typically require you to have a bachelor's. As far as like being concerned about like, you know, my education doesn't really fit what I'm doing. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to like, A, apply for the job in the first place or B, do the job if I get it. Maybe don't stress that as much. Just because like a lot of times, and it can make things difficult obviously if you don't have like a related degree. But a lot of times companies are just looking for people that are like have an education and have proved that like, you know, they can handle themselves and learn it at depth. As far as like, once you get the job, you know, pretty much any job you have will start the same way, right? You get in, they show you around, they train you how to do the job. So like as long as you're like willing to learn something new and like keep like an open mind and are okay with like adapting, you can probably do a lot more than you think. And I mean, I know I was incredibly nervous when I was like walking into the job for the first day. I'm like, I know nothing about anti-money laundering. I didn't even know it was a thing. I like, they reached out to me like, hey, anti-money laundering compliance. And I'm like, what's that? So I did some research and learned about like, you know, the Patriot Act and like BSA regulations and stuff like this that I've never even heard of before. And I'm like, okay, so there's like a whole system in place for this sort of stuff. But yeah, I mean like starting the job, it's like anything else and you just learn and you pick it up and like, you know, maybe you'll like it. Like I didn't think I was gonna enjoy AML much at all. But like I do enjoy it. It's not like my favorite thing in the world, but like as far as job goes, it's decent. And like, yeah, I mean, just because you don't have like a background in something doesn't mean you can't do it. It doesn't mean you can't do it well. I do take a lot of pride in my work and think I do a good job and recognize by my company. So like, you know, just because you don't have like the background in something, doesn't mean you can't do it. I'm so glad to hear you say that. I've roped my husband into some research project where we analyze job announcements, and you're right. They almost never say that this specific degree is required. Now, if they're saying clients or something like that, sure, certain licenses are required. But especially like you said, for bachelor's level jobs, they might have a couple of recommended, but they are usually very open, much more open than students think. And I think students get frustrated when they say, well, this job doesn't say they want HDFS. And usually, as you said, people are just looking for bachelor's. Also, it's not just HDFS either. I know that many, many, many psychology majors, also, and other types of fields, you know, they work cool outside of the field. I'm not crazy about that term, because I think that you use the knowledge you acquire. As you point out, you learn how to learn. That's what they want to see, that you know how to learn. So you use that everywhere. And so many people are doing such a broad array of things. And so I think that that's great advice from you. And I think sometimes people hear it better coming from like an individual who has lived it. And like, you know, you have been one of these people, you took a chance, went into the interview, showed up on the first day. And it's worked out great, you know? I mean, I think honestly, what, I mean, at least in like test case, really like having that, I mean, because the reason they, someone contacted him was because he had, you know, a LinkedIn account. Yeah, that's how they saw his information and everything. And so they were like, Oh, okay. And like, this person seems keepable. Yeah, you know, and they think that that's like super cool. I like, I don't like, I haven't had that experience personally. But like, I mean, I'm just glad that it worked for him. And, you know, that he's kind of doing something that he enjoys. So you think for the most part in everything. And so I think it also speaks to just kind of staying open to variety of opportunities, you know, sometimes, you know, we can get really just so laser focused on one thing that we kind of are blind to other opportunities that might be there. That might also be really good options, you know? So that's really very, very cool. One other thing I was wondering really quickly, and before we shift back, it's so you mentioned that you did a little quick research on like the Patriot Act and things like that. So did you do that research and prep for the interview so that you at least had some baseline? - Yeah, so I did a good amount of prep work for the interview because I just didn't know a whole lot about like the field. And I think with AML specifically, I don't think a lot of people do know a lot about it. You get a lot of people from different professions in it. So I think as far as the interview went, basically I looked at like the resume or not the resume. I looked at the job application, saw like, you know, the things on there. I was like, okay, well, I should at least know what these things are. - Yes. - So I could probably play, you know, to see what they were about, did a bit of research on just AML in general and use that knowledge in my interview. As far as how that went, yeah, I mean, it was pretty much just an interview like you would expect. As far as coming from a different field and how the interview went, it didn't affect it a whole lot. I think it helped me because I was able to talk about some of the AML stuff. - Yeah, I do recall that they were like a little impressed that I knew what the US Patriot Act was and things like that. But yeah, there was a question that was asked at some point in time in the interview, which is pretty standard of like, you know, what is your background in, you know, where did you go to college and how will this help you with your job? And like when I came up, I'm like, honestly, like, it doesn't have anything to do with anti-money laundering. And then I went on though to say that like, but you know, I think that just having a bachelor's and getting through the degree really, let me grow as a professional, taught me how to stay on my toes, how to learn, how to pick up something new and like, how to, you know, write because I knew for like the job, there was like a lot of writing involved. I'm like, I can write a really comprehensive narrative. So it's like, there's always something, I think, that you can point out that would help you in a job from even something that might not seem relatable. I think I also went on like, you know, like, I know like the psychology of people. So like I might know what looks normal in spending activity, what would be normal for people to do and things like that. And honestly, it did help a bit, you know, kind of understanding how people operate on a psychological level, even though you're just looking at transactions, it's like, well, does this make sense? - Right. - But yeah, I mean, there's always something, there's always something you can point out as far as like your education and how that helped you, even if it's very general. I think that you'll be able to come up with a response for things like that. And in the end, in interviews and interview, if you can make a good impression and you know, make yourself seem professional, like that's kind of what you're going for, right? - Yeah, I mean, and again, I just want to echo your other earlier point that yeah, with a four-year degree, we expect people to be flexible learners. That's just what we, that's the point of the four-year degree. And so point, and then also I call it like connecting the dots, when you like help draw the connection. Like even if the connection's not obvious, you're right. I believe there's always a connection. And so you just help draw that connection, even if it is a more general connection. So I think that that's great advice. And thank you for sharing that. I think it's going to be really encouraging to people, you know, who might find themselves, you know, considering something that's going to quote, unquote, outside of the field, but they're a little intimidated. So shifting back to you, Alex, tell me how you, how you wound up in your current role. And like what your day-to-day looks like. We've heard what Ted's day-to-day looks like. Fascinating. But tell me about your day-to-day now. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Like I feel like it's my day-to-day it's not that interesting. No. Sorry. I'm sure it is. The thing is, well, I mean, the way that I ended up in my role, I mean, it was really kind of all came together because of the internships that I did while I was doing my master's degree. I mean, I guess I was doing advising at some point, and I just kind of fell enough with it. I mean, but like I kind of already knew that I was kind of the trajectory that I was seeing myself with. I just needed to like get a feel for it and everything. And I did the internship and I was like, yeah, this is good. Like, you know, I don't see. I felt, you know, so like really good kind of helping these students kind of, you know, coming on board, you know, giving all the resources that they needed and everything. So I mean, it is still, I think it's still sort of very related to what I originally wanted to do as far as, you know, the counseling and like therapy, everything. It's just a different sort of shift. But I mean, it's still like connecting with people. I mean, and you know, when you see like these little freshmen come in and it's just like, ah, like I love it, you know, having like how like positive they are and just kind of like how like, you know, full of just kind of like energy and like really dreams. I don't know, like these, these like, supers, I like to call them supers. So they are so like, I think inspiring really. Like this kind of like new nature generation that is coming through. I really love talking with them. And so it's been, it's been really good. So as far as my day today, as I'm literally just starting to go like, I mean, I got hired in May. So I have been working for like a month and a half. (laughs) - During the pandemic, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not even still like, I mean, I haven't gone to the office yet. I know that where I scheduled to go back in August. So kind of looking forward to that. Yeah. (laughs) I, you know, I am kind of excited to just kind of see everyone and be there. But I mean, so far really the, you know, I've been kind of, again, onboarding the students like the new freshmen that are coming in, just kind of introducing them to CCI, I mean, which is the college that I'm working with right now. So college of information. And yeah, I don't know, like that's been kind of like what's been happening so far. And I've been working on some projects kind of like here and there that my colleagues, you know, sort of like give me and that's kind of what I've been doing. So I know that that's going to be looking a little bit different as the, you know, kind of like the year goes through. You know, I'm going to be meeting with all the students from all the, all years except not graduates. Like it just undergrad students. And so yeah, I mean, that's kind of what it's, that's going to be like with me. - I definitely agree. Like I can totally see the connection between your initial goals, you know, because you're working one-on-one with people or, you know, one-on-one with people that kind of help them to reach their goals. I mean, so that you definitely see the parallel between the counseling and so it totally makes sense. I did not realize at first glance until you rewrote it up that yeah, that you basically applied for this job and acquired it during the pandemic. - So I mean, what was that process like? - Well, yeah, it was, it was interesting. I think, I mean, I was sort of applying to, I mean, I knew that I kind of wanted to stay at least for now in this area and everything. I mean, we're kind of established right now here, but I mean, I think we're kind of open to sort of new possibilities. But at least for now, with the way that I guess just kind of things were set up and everything and because it wasn't the middle of a pandemic I was I guess a little bit nervous about I don't know just kind of venturing maybe like too too far or something like that just kind of like not really knowing what really is going to happen and so I mean I started up playing in January to the positions and everything and a lot of them were in like Kent State because a lot of openings just kind of started to come up again again because a lot of higher institutions were not like they were all pretty much having like hiring freezes like they were not hiring anyone you know like staff faculty it was just like nope so it was a little bit nervous too I was like oh my gosh what if there's no jobs out there for me and everything and so but thankfully I don't know if everything again sort of seem to lined up okay and again I was just kind of able to make you know like just they will able to apply and everything I guess the interviews itself they were a little different just because I didn't know what interviewing really for higher ed was going to be like and I don't know if this is the experience that everyone has but at least for my interviews they were long they were long interviews and I mean I think with the position that I have now I think it was like a total of maybe like three hour interview that I had you know I just kind of had to you know break it down and everything but it was it was long and it was but I don't know like I had so much experience that I was just able to kind of like talk through it like I was you know like I was really passionate I mean I'm still so passionate about it about the work that I'm doing currently and everything and so that I think really helped again having or being having the ability to do like the internships and the having the GA and everything it really sort of helped so much in just having that experience and being able to talk about it and being like yep I actually know how to do this work and I'm very confident about right you can actually like tell some stories from when you were in the field that are related to questions that they ask or reflect about yeah every question I was like yep I've done this I've done this I've done this I might have had experience with it and then of course I think they also like that I not only had experience with higher ed but that I also was again working somewhere else for a while too so that also was helpful because I was able to I don't know at some point they had a question that I forget what what it was but I remember having a little bit of trouble answering it because it was just like oh this is not something that I did with like this particular you know in this like in higher ed but I did have experience with it and my other job so I was able to like talk about that yes not and then so they were like oh okay so I mean I don't know like I remember just like seeing their expression and be like oh yeah no that's that's really valid and yeah and that's you know that like we're glad that you brought that up because I mean that is different and so yeah it is nice to see when you have a different lens from you know from a different a little bit of a different setting yes okay so I think we've got a sense of like your day-to-day and congrats on the graduation and the congrats on the new job right right around graduation that's pretty awesome is there anything else that you all want to share or any advice that you have for students or new professionals yeah sure I think I'd like to say just like you know be really open about like the things you might want to do just because like you know you think you're doing one thing that might not be your only path and I think another thing I kind of wish I did more of when I was in college is look at job applications like for stuff that you would apply to after college because I didn't really start looking at like the actual specific job applications until like I was like getting close to graduation at which point like you know I couldn't do much about like bolstering my resume or things like that so like look at job applications for things that would interest you that you think you can do see like you know what are they looking for and then like you know while you're going through college like maybe do some things that'll like help add to that I think that could go a long way and yeah I mean just you know they positive and go out there and do it but yeah HDFS is a really good time we we I would like to see more men in the field because I think it would be cool to have them there but otherwise you know just what you got to do yeah yeah no I mean I think for me it's um you know like you met like I mean um you mentioned I feel like I mean I the reason I ended up where I was was because I was sort of like talking to other people then just kind of like seeing what they were doing and everything especially when I hit that wall of like I really don't know what I want to do um and you know but I I do know that I want to you know just kind of keep pursuing my education and everything um again I I didn't know that this is where I was going to end up um and I don't know I mean I know that it is helpful to have you know like a five-year plan or something like that but I don't know at some point like any more when people ask me that like oh that's your five-year plan I'm just like I don't know I'm just kind of open to to a lot I guess at this point because I I feel like I did have a five-year plan at some point and then it just looks so different and it doesn't really look like anything that I would have thought and so I mean kind of on the same like way the Ted said it's just you know just kind of be open to you know oh yeah change and like all their possibilities just because you know like I mean if you're going through something um and like you really like our focus or like hyper focused on pursuing certain things I feel like you've missed out on a lot of you know all their things that you could be doing absolutely I'm loving this because um Ted has just justified one of the major assignments in my careers at HDFS course where the students are always like this took hours they have to do a job search simulation and so they have to actually return to me three different job announcements and there's like this whole thing I have to use to analyze and to answer questions about each one and and then think about if you are interested in this what are some steps that you could take so thank you Ted for just justifying the hours long project and you Alex just justified what I always say like if you're not sure what you want to do just get out there talk to people like explore you can only learn but so much like actually it's neat that you both pointed out those two things because I think that they both work in tandem like you do your own research you do do diligence but then you also make connections with people and I think that you try to do one on its own it's not going to work out as well but if you're doing both of those then and you're remaining open then it could really lead to some cool outcomes I also think it's pretty neat that you all both started on with similar goals for counseling and you've taken it two different directions where you're still making positive impacts on the world which I think a lot of the students in our field that's their ultimate goal is to make a positive impact thank you all so much and I so appreciate your time on a weekend I cannot thank you enough thank you you as well I hope you enjoyed this episode of the HDFS career podcast if you have recommendations for HDFS or other family science alumni to interview please reach out to me at hdfscareers.com don't worry if they're not working on a job that would normally be considered in the field I'm interested in hearing a variety of stories especially if they're working outside of academia if you like this podcast and want other people to be able to find it please rate it and review it in iTunes or share it on social media until next time keep exploring your future possibilities.