Alan Ritchson

Welcome, welcome, welcome to our chair expert. I'm Dak Shepherd and I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hi. This is an incredible opportunity for us for many reasons. A, he's a mega mega star, but also you and I have had debates about this man. And then he got to come in and actually we got to hear from him. People might remember Alan Richson was talked about heavily when I was referencing this motorcycle video that happened in his neighborhood with a with a blood-dirt neighbor. Yeah. Yeah. And so yes, this is the gentleman that was involved in that. Yeah. Yes, talk about it. Most people know him as Reacher, this gigantically successful international blockbuster Reacher, war machine, Blue Mountain State, fast and furious, fast X. And he has a new movie out now that is so cool and so bold motor city. So check that out. And then coming up in September, look for runner with he and Owen Wilson. Please enjoy Alan Richson. Tell me what's happening. Where do you live? I live in Nashville now. Meet me to have a house there. Where was there last weekend? Mount Juliet? Oh, cool. I'm the lake. Oh, you are one of the lucky ones, man. I want to be there. How so bad? How long have you been there, though, because I read that you were nomadic for a minute, which fascinates me. I did not want to settle down. I was traveling like a circus with my wife and kids. My boys are 13, 12 and 10. I was having the best time. I'm working. I come home. I hang out with the boys. It was heaven for me, and not for them officially. I was like, this is great. Yeah, I love it. They're like, we really went friends. We want to go to sleepovers. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So we're in New Zealand. We're shooting war machine and had the most idyllic dinner we've ever had. It was magic hour. It was like, you know, the cobblestone streets and the mountains and the water. It was beautiful. It was a great. And we were walking back and it's like, culturally idyllic. It's people on slacklines and like picnic and my oldest boy, like, burst into tears. I said, what did I do? Yeah. My wife goes, what did you do? And he goes, I just saw those kids over there playing and they have friends. I think it just hit us to like, oh, we're really at an age where we got to settle down. I want to go back to something that really struck a chord, which is your kid cried in your first thought was what did I do? I know. I caught that too. That's very dax. That's so me. Yeah. And then I've noticed it's so my brother. It's like a family thing. Where does it come from for you? I'm trying to figure that out. I think my mom probably picked it up from her dad. I don't know, but I've talked to my brother about it. I'm like, what's going on with us? And he goes, don't you just feel like you're always in trouble? And I'm like, yeah, I feel like I'm always in trouble. And like, if anything happens or anyone's moods a little crooked, my first thought is like, oh, fuck, I did something. You're like hypervigilant. Yeah, super hugged HD. Yeah, I newly believe I have that. Okay. But what is this thing? It's like, I'm in trouble. I must have done something hypervigilance. Yeah, you learn to read the room real quick. The survival mechanism is like, am I responsible for this? And what can I do to fix it? I suffer deeply from rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which is part 8 HD. I've never talked about this before. I've talked about bipolar before. Yeah. But I think I have it all. I think I have like, I guess what the poor thing is, but I just hired an 80 HD coach. Oh, really? To kind of help me because I feel like pre 40, the 80 HD brain is a super power. But the fuel comes at a huge cost later in life. Your gas tank runs off cortisol and stress. And like the fear of the pain of rejection and criticism. And I hate it so much because it's such a visceral violent, sickening reaction, bodily reaction that like, I'll do anything to avoid it. So like, I'll be perfect for you. This will be the best experience or relationship you've ever had. So you're not ever going to be mad at me, you know? That doesn't work. It's exhausting for the beginning. Well, it's not reality. My kids have said it's not real. That's why I've been confronting it. And that's why I heard it in you as my kids finally said, like, I hate when you say that. They recognize that. Yeah. I'll always go, oh, did I do something or did I upset you? It's really perceptive. Yeah. And they said in a very self way, I don't like that. Because what it does is like, I'm dealing with something. And then all of a sudden it's about you. And I got to reassure you that you're not in trouble. And it's like, I'm the one who's upset. I'm like, fucking duh. Yeah. So selfish of me, I think I'm being very selfless in trying to apologize or whatever amend, whatever thing I do wrong. But in fact, it's like, yeah, it's like stealing their thing in a way, seeing them less because you're recognizing your own. Yeah. Because like, they're not in a position where I'm like, did I do something? They have to now go like, oh, no, no, you didn't do it. Like they have to now comfort me. Right. When I should be coming in to comfort them because they're upset. But instead, I've said, did I do something wrong or did I upset you? And now they got to comfort me. Right. They learned to hide their emotions from you. Like, oh, well, I guess I can't be like upset around dad because he's just going to feel awkward. Exactly. And reject it. And then sort of apologize. Exactly. So being aware of that and recognizing that they're aware of that, which is impressive. What does that awakening do to you? You're putting more energy into managing the awareness of it or confronting it before it happens. My whole life is a series of things I've quit, right? It's just like, I don't know when I accumulated all the badness. But at some point, I had to start just removing alcohol at 29 or removing this. And then now we're down to this. It's like, yeah, I got to stop that. I cannot ask you repeatedly all the time. Did I do something wrong? Are you upset with me? I have to trust that they will tell me if that's the case. And then this weird AA thing starts happening, right? Which is like, they always tell you, you can act your way into thinking different. You cannot think your way into acting different. So it's like by simply stopping the repeated, am I in trouble? Did I do something? By stopping the action, the thoughts dissipate. It's like reverse hacking that disillute by man. Yeah. Do you find any purchase in that kind of rationale? Yeah. It's like, I'm a little bit of that like fake it to learn a lot of anybody and fake it to you to get through this chapter. It's a little bit of that theory, but yeah, I get that totally. There's obviously a genetic component to ADHD. But I'm sure in broil and that's some childhood stuff. I was just dying. I have all the diagnoses. I feel like, you know, like when you see people on like late night and they're like the most gorgeous, wonderful, well, like everything's perfect. It's a girl that's like, I would touch it, I mean, Doc, we have everyone hate to be like, yeah, right. I don't buy it when I see it. But sometimes I feel like people, they have these like sympathy diagnoses where you're like, yeah, I'm just so messed up. You know, you look pretty put together to me. Some people maybe really mask it well or like deal with it well or whatever, but I keep finding out that like I have these pretty sinister things under the hood that are like really corrupting relationships in my world. Yeah. Yeah. On a day to day basis. And the evidence of it is everywhere. Things are not always great in the very few relationships that I have. Yeah. By any means, there's damage. Yeah. And so I'm like, why are like the three relationships that are important to me not working at all? And so, you know, you start to look under the hood. I was diagnosed recently with CPTSD. CPTSD, chronic post-traumatic stress syndrome, which is interesting because PTSD, what I've learned, and like, I don't know, I'm not an expert. You might be. Let's see. PTSD from what I've learned from the psychiatrists, psychologists who are experts in the field is it's actually much easier to heal from those sort of one-off traumatic events. Oh, uh-huh. When you have chronic PTSD, trauma with a little T is how it's described, repeatedly over and over and over again as a kid, like if there's like a narcissistic adult in the home, right? Or an abusive adult. Yeah. Food scarcity and imprisonment, parent addiction, sexual abuse. Right. So and repeated and if it's made worse by having no secure attachments, they're almost likely to like never fully recover. Right. Right. Right. Right. And so there are now methods that I've now experienced like EMDR, electromagnetic. So you have this vibrating pulse in your hand that keeps both hemispheres online. So you don't get locked into this, when you start talking about trauma, yeah, yeah, talk therapy. You don't get locked into this shutdown mode, right? You keep both hemispheres on and somehow in doing that, it allows you to sort of process this stuff differently where you can move through it. So really quick, you used little hand us because my wife did eye stuff. Yes, that's a part of it too. Yeah. But you have this stimulation that is a part of the process, right? And you work through these traumatic events, you rebuild them, you create a new narrative around it, you re-experience. You're building a new neural network. Yes. Anyway, so finding out that like I've CPTSD, I need to work through this stuff. Going through the trauma, my therapist was like, hold on. Well, you just said it's not little T stuff. Well, you just said it's big T stuff. No, no, but I deserve that. She's like, that's why people say, you make it all your fault, you know, when the victim of abuse is a child working through all that, has just been pretty eye-opening. I'm already relating you so much, just even the way you speak, right? Yes, because I see people on talk shows, oh, I was a wallflower in their 10 and you're like, right? Yeah. And so every time I'm doing this right, like I've talked about being molested on here, right? Like, it's rough. There's a voice in my head that's from fucking Detroit and this kid's going, like, oh, you fucking need so much attention. Oh, boo. Yeah, before you, like that fucking shadow voice that is so worried, I'm being judged like we're talking about the person on the talk show versus yeah, you go through some shit. It's fucking up some of your relationships. You have some wreckage from this. You're supposed to ignore that. I mean, you could or you could drink yourself to death at 60. So like the notion that there's anything indulged about it as opposed to like, no, I'm on a mission to like get this is right as I can before I die, which is honorable. But just having to fucking constantly talk to that chorus of fucking kids, I grew up with basically, right? Do you have that? It's like any action I do. I hear the fucking assholes from my neighborhood. I just feel like I'm not driving the car. Those voices are more than voices. They got a hold of the wheel. And I can intellectualize in this moment. I'm like, fuck, this is rejection sensitivity syndrome. This is probably related to the fact that I was so terrified of upsetting the way the machine was working in the home as a child, tiptoeing on that broken glass. This is our all reaction. I can see it happening in the moment like an out-of-body experience and then still have zero control over it. I can't stop it. And then it does damage to the relationships. Now I'm lashing out because I feel so hurt and rejected and criticized when the scale of that rejection of criticism was just a comment to them, but it felt like a life-changing gut punch. So then the relationship is out of balance. It's volatile. There's too much volatility in my house. I feel bad for my kids. I feel bad for my wife. It's not great all the time. And it's like, oh, is it clearly it's a part of all this thing? But what's funny is that you or I could think even talking about that might invite criticism when what you're saying right now is like deeply admirable in all ways. It's like you're taking accountability for your shittiness in your struggles. You're attempting with all your might to make things better. You're failing for sure. But the huge difference is like you act like an asshole. You're not aware of any of this. You then shut down. I don't know what your pattern is. Then you and your wife finally amend some way. You never address it. And she's left to think like, well, this is as good as it's ever going to get because he has no awareness of it. He's not making any effort versus even if you are unable to hit the brakes in those moments. The simple fact that you know what's happening. You're committed to trying to reduce that gap. Everyone in your life. Oh, you would think, but I've been with my wife for 20 years, right? You've been married for me married for 20 years, not each other's forever. And a lifetime of like that kind of volatility, though, where then there's just this push pull, like it does damage. So at some point, people get fed up with just the coming back and realizing like, I was wrong. And I know you didn't really mean it. Like, I overgacted and it's exhausting. And there's a cost to it, right? And so JP Sacks, singer songwriter, I love. He's amazing. He was at my house. And I said something to him that he ended up turning into a song, a beautiful song I love. I hope it releases it someday. But I just said in conversation, I said, I wouldn't wish myself on my own worst enemy. I feel like it's just damage waiting to happen in a relationship, which is why I tend to pull back and be like a real lone wolf. I don't have a lot of friends and relationships. And that's the way that I protect people, not by like elevating myself through those. It's more like, I'm going to give up before I mess anything, mess anything up, right? To protect you from myself. I think that life to me is like really about meaningful relationships and community. And being an effective agent of love and change in community, whatever that is, family, neighborhoods work, how can we be like a light that just brings the best out of the world that we are blessed with to occupy? And then, you know, feeling like it's actually better if I just don't have any of that. It's like a weird place to be. Yeah. It's not true. You would not be married for 20 years if you didn't have. Unless you have Stockholm syndrome. No, we've met a little bit of smart said she doesn't believe in that. And if she doesn't believe in it, then I don't believe in it. Well, she gets to decide that. But you would not be in this type of relationship if you didn't have qualities, great qualities. I feel like you focus a lot on the harm you're causing, but you're also bringing joy. Yeah, great point. And you have to also be able to tap into that and realize that's the real party. That's really you. Because I bet you're a fucking party as well. Are you a party? I don't want things to hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know my kids like me. Yeah. This is a lot. People, they have autonomy and they can evaluate like, yeah, there's some bumps, but fuck the highs are good. And oh man, you know. Yeah, it's maximizing the good things and minimizing the bad things. We all have a mix. We have a friend like this currently who's just very like, I'm bad. I'm not. Yeah. And it's as someone who loves this person. It's like, that's crazy. You are offering so much. And if you don't see it, it's sad. Yeah, I think it's all part of the ADHD brain, though, is like, let me get ahead of like the rejection issue, which is going to cause all kinds of volatility. You know, like, let me just protect everybody from that. Is your father so alive? Both my parents are still. Both are parents. My inclination is to ask if the master sergeant, chief master sergeant ran a really tight ship that is some of the source of this, this childhood anxiety. And then my inclination is that you probably are the type of dude that your dad stole a lot. My dad's dead. So I'm free to talk. It's hard to talk about the folks. Yeah, yeah. But how about, let's go about school because I think anyone that knows you would be shocked, even I was to learn, like, yeah, I don't know if you're tiny, but you were very late bloomer. Very. You moved around a lot, right? You're born in North Dakota. You go to Illinois and then you went up and it sounds fake, but nice fill Florida. Yeah. What age you land in nice fill Florida? I was in fifth grade, going into fifth grade, going into fifth grade. So one year left of elementary. Yeah. Okay. And then mama's educator, she became whatever put her closest to us. So she'd like, work the computer lab at a school. She's like BS up to D-Datured. Whatever got her closest to us, as you can see what we're doing all the time. And you have an older brother, an younger brother? Yeah, that's right. Okay. What is the age gap? 18 months with my older brother and six years with my younger brother. Okay. And what was your older brother like? And did you think he was radical? I looked up to him because he was an overachiever. He was super, super smart, international baccalaureate in high school and really good grades. And then he went on to become a chemical engineer and get a master's and he also paid for his school. He was one of the fastest runners in the country. Oh, really? So he was athletic. And so he would do something and be like, well, I guess I have to run a four minute mile now. So he sort of continued to raise a bar for me. And I always really looked up to him for that. Was he protective of you? Not really. I was more protective of him. I remember the first time I ever got punched. I was in fourth grade. He was in sixth grade. And we were in 500 or whatever. You just chucked the ball up in the air and a mob of kids go land on it, right? And he got a little physical. And some kid who I'd never seen before was in his grade. And you know, a fourth grader to a sixth grader is like, Jay can't take. He shoves my brother around my brother's like, come on, man, let's go. And he just leaves. And I was like, we don't just leave when somebody shut. So I run over the kid and I was like, wham, I shoved him as hard as I could to the ground. I was like, don't ever touch my brother. And I make the mistake where I turn around and walk away like a door. You think you've got like the movies out there? Yeah, yeah. And I walk away and I just feel his tap of my shoulder like this. And he uppercut. He's so bad. I think in real life, I was probably 24, 25 feet off the ground. I had the biggest goose egg on my jaw really. I was working with Guy Richie on Ministry of Unginemally Warfare. One of my favorite things about working with him is he's an intellectual. Like if you spend time like, you know, but I'm obsessed with him and his whole work style and the barbecue thing. It's the coolest. I love this set of form out of living, right? Yeah, his work life balance, the overlap, the Venn diagram synergy. It's a circle. I think it's just like this perfect. He's figured out a way to like live and work at the same time in the funnest coolest way. He loves to just wrestle big existential philosophical questions. And we'll sit in his trailer just for hours. You know, like I remember the last day I was working as a night shoot. It was my last day. I was wrapped out. Oh, God. I would like to see you in his trailer. We're cooking. I was like, gosh. So it comes. He goes right here. My boy. And I'm like, no, I gotta. It's night time, dude. It's like three in the morning. I went to bed. He's like, no, no, we're gonna. He just wanted to talk. He said at one point, he goes, I think everybody should wake up in a pool of their own teeth and blood at some point. He was like, he really amped it up. He goes, I think it would make the world a better place if everybody, right? At the time, I was like, no, no, that's like such an old testament, God kind of thing. And like, there's a whole new way of doing it. I think we should love everybody. And he was like so vehemently disagreed. And since that point in time, so many things have happened in my life where I'm like, it would be so much better if everybody would go to that. Sometimes that's the best way to, you know, I'll get to that too. Yeah, yeah, I'll be driving around LA a lot. I'll be at a light. And I see the fucking five foot eight agent in a 9/11 screaming at a woman in a car. And I go, yeah, you're just not from where I'm at. Yeah, you just want it. And I wish you had been where you don't fucking act like that. Yeah. Like there are consequences for acting like a bully in the world. Yeah, there aren't a lot of consequences these days. So the ride through school, not a big dude. How was it? I'll say you another shocker. You loved musical theater. Yeah, that made it interesting because I was in the deep south. Yeah, yeah. And I was a little bit nerdy. I mean, we're going back to this like, no, I was such a, I one time had a pimple but like, I was just like, oh, the most efficient way to get to school is roller blades because then I could roll right into chorus practice. Oh, you're a target. Right. So yeah, so I'm like in chorus, in music theater, doing drama, riding it on roller blades. I'm like, I'm not only in Forza. Perfect. The dude's just hated it. It was interesting. And so I would sort of come back that with like, acting even goofier. Jim Carrey is my idol. I was Jim Carrey every year for Halloween. I would dress up as him every Halloween. Go to school like that. It would be doing lines from the entire Marshall Bell and shit. Yeah, excuse me. My ass. He's like kids eating lunches. It was fun for me. It was a little tricky with some of the dudes that didn't understand I got like me in that place. And I was half in and half like, I liked dance. What kind of dance? ballet. I know you met your wife in a ballet. We met ballet. I have a sociable arts degree in ballet just because I had enough credits when I could call this to get one. You know, they're like, You can have a ballet degree, I was like, okay, that's so cool. But I was so at that point in time, I wish I knew what I knew now and really embraced it, but like I was so ashamed to be there. I didn't want people to know. I was afraid to open up in class 'cause I didn't want to be viewed a certain way and you know, silly. So I kind of just enjoyed the arts and I felt like I wasn't allowed to enjoy the arts. Did dad like these pursuits or would they seem a little emasculating? He's supported my brothers and I in everything we ever did. To a degree, he'll always be my hero for this. He was Chief Master Sergeant Richardson, 1% of the Air Force achieves that rank. Of all the branches, it's the hardest to achieve. - Okay. - 'Cause it's so limited. He's a great leader. He was well respected by the people that worked for him. I really looked up for him the way that he worked. He looked like run the King Hangar on Eggland Air Force Base, the largest Air Force Base in the world. And when we got really busy and just trying to discover who we were and trying lots of extracurricular activities, we couldn't afford it. We're broke. You don't make a lot in the Air Force with a family of five that's busy. And so he took a job as a night security guard at the tiny little local airport. - No way. - And he did it for enough time to get us through like a busy season, but he would work all day and then come home and nap and then go do this thing at night. And I remember hearing about my mom was like, you don't have to do this 'cause I'd overhear them in the room and the people that were ranked way under him would see him in the airport and look, "What the hell are you doing here, David?" - Oh yeah. - You know when they teased him for it, he would talk about how humiliating it was. - Yeah. - Yeah. - By the way, it's like deeply admirable, David. - Deeply admirable. - Yeah, I don't know. - So I don't hear these conversations. I cry 'cause then I feel bad 'cause I'm like, he's doing this for me to be able to go to like a chorus event across the state in a competition. And anyway, I hugely admire him for what he's doing, but so he's supported him in a big way. - Yeah, right, right, right, right. - I had a full ride. I could have gone to any college. I wanted like vocal scholarships offered everywhere. - You were also going to high school and this community college at the exact same time. - So I started college early a little bit, but I just wanted to get it done with. But I eventually had academic scholarships paid for school. I had vocal scholarships and that kind of thing. And I quit school. I'm like, this is not for me. I have to experience life in a different way. And I've been invited to like start modeling, which is really a fruitlessness. - Well, we go to modeling, telling him about the tumor and how big was it and were you super insecure and what was happening with that? - Well, I was an interesting little hiccup, little speed bump in Adolescent. - My face was growing like sideways like the elephant man. - Okay. - And at first, my mom's like, maybe the other side will just take him in and it to catch up. (laughing) - The light, yeah. And people started calling you names and you're like, - How old were you? High school? - Yeah, I was like 15, so my chin starts growing like, way out and we didn't get any help. I went to go get my wisdom teeth taken out. And we got an x-ray for the wisdom teeth and the orthodontist, whoever we were seeing, he comes and he goes, I think you need to sit down. We're like, what? We have a tumor in your chin. We saw in the, you know, and so they showed us, it's a huge thing. They operated, they took the wisdom teeth out. They cut my gums from here to here, filled it all the way down. - Whoa. - And they had to take the tumor out and like fill it in with osteoclasts or whatever and tack it down and shave like the stuff that had grown like sideways. - On the mandible. - Yeah. - So like this whole, like all this was shaved down. - Whoa. - And you still have such an impressive chin. - I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. - I'm shocked. - What's funny is the doctor at the time, I had no idea that it'd be like in the entertainment industry. Like nobody in my family was, I didn't even know it was a career, but the doctor was like, so we can do this one in two ways. Very simple, you can just cut, you open here, you'll have a score of the rest of your life. I have a feeling looking at you probably better if you don't have a big scar like that for whatever you're gonna do in life. So it's gonna be a lot worse for you, but we'll do this way. So they went inside. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And was it immediately noticeable and did your confidence go up? - Oh huge. - Yeah. - I would have been very insecure in high school. - Yeah, yeah. I sort of remember walking down that like, if this was a movie, like a teenage movie or whatever, the camera's just floating down the hallway and you see girls jumping out of the way and like grabbing onto their friend, get away from the concert. - You were in the hunchback of Notre Dame. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, I just like, oh, and you love Jim Carrey musical theater. - Yeah, okay, at least I can sing. - I want to be your friend, look out for you. - No, I don't need a rejection sensitivity. - But that also really taught me, I'll never, ever look down on somebody, or criticize somebody or make somebody feel less than for something that they have no control over. - Yeah. - So yeah, you start modeling and what was that? That was the first time my dad would not speak to me. - Oh, okay, yeah. - 'Cause it's so vain. So he made decisions in his own life that he kind of regrets. Like he was in the drugs and partying and it was unfocused. He was like orphaned. He's one of those guys where you hear his story and you're like, what chance did you have at any normalcy or success in your life? You've got a family, he found a way to keep his marriage together. There's a lot of things that I'm like, man, he triumphed over his story. So I respect that, but he should have been in the major leagues as a baseball player. - Okay. - I've been playing for the Cincinnati Reds had he not been in the drugs and shown up. But he went in the military because he had to. And so he saw him more for us and we're bright and driven and gritty and accomplished. - And he had worked two jobs to make sure you guys had opportunities. - Yeah, exactly. And colleges paid for and I'm like, I'm just not from me. He recoiled from that a little bit. And then my follow up is I'm going to be a model. - Oh, yeah. - Are you an idiot? - Yeah. - This makes no sense. And it didn't make sense to me either. The first time I went to a modeling agency, I'd been invited. They'd seen me somewhere and they kept calling me. You got to be a model down in Miami. And I was like, why is it so kind of state? And so for a couple months, I was like, I don't know, maybe, maybe. And eventually I was like, you know what? I'm going to do that just because that's more interesting than this and like, I don't know where that could get me, but I like to see. - And what did Catherine say about that? 'Cause you guys were already together. - At that point, we were like just friends. We met at high school, a dated first summer in high school and kind of went our separate way. - Oh, yeah, a little bright. - So she was in Gainesville, Florida. We got re-acquainted at some point during the modeling time. And I was like, oh, she's great. - Oh, okay, okay, okay, I thought it was meat and ballet class. - And then, yeah, no, so we kind of had our lives for a moment. - You got success as a model, right? You were Abercrombie and French. - Oh, yeah. - Abercrombie and Fitch. He has a hard time saying that. - I cannot say. - Which is like French. - We did five episodes ago. I'm like, no, it's Abercrombie and Fitch, right? - She loved it. - He's like, Abercrombie and Fitch. - She is happy. - Abercrombie, Fitch. I probably saw you on Dilbert, whatever they're called. You know, up in the store, I love that story. - He also did some underwear modeling. - Yeah, Abercrombie for me is like, I remember the whole me two things started happening then to like Bruce Weber who shot that kind of stuff. And the stories that were coming out in the allegations were like, yep, that happened to me, that happened to me. - On the male model site too. - Yeah, dude, I was like, man, should I speak up? 'Cause at that point in time, I was an actor with some visibility. I mean, definitely nothing like what I'm experiencing now, but there was a bit of a platform there. I just couldn't bring myself to like insert, you know, open up the can of worms in that conversation. - Again, too, were you hearing the dudes that were like, oh, me too, you're a dude, really? - Kind of, yeah, part of it is like, I don't want people to think I'm doing this for publicity. I don't want to bring this shit up, but it was denied and settled in all those cases that were brought up, right? And it was like, man, I just wish people knew what was going on in that business. - Yeah. - And there was something being done to protect people. - 'Cause the photographers were largely predatory. - It was a whole system, dude. - Yeah. - So it is set up to facilitate that kind of behavior. You're traded to photographers. You're traded between clients that want to have you. The agents are doing it and they know what they're doing. I almost punched an agent in the fucking face because I had told them to stop sending me to people who were like trying to molest me on these jobs, right? - Yeah, yeah. - I was like, I just need to eat. Okay, that's all I'm here for. I don't want to mess around. Like there are people in the business. Like I worked for JC Penney's for a long time. I was like a regular client of theirs. It fed me and it got me through and it wasn't splashy or cool, but they were just good people that just wanted to do some work. - I bought board, yeah. - And then there's the rest of the industry, right? I was like, I don't want to do that. I don't care. Well, you kind of have to if you want to get the cover of a bug and I was like, no. And so anyway, I had this thing happen at this shoot. I went straight to that agency and I pulled this dude out of his chair and I was like, I'm going to fucking kill you, dude. You knew exactly. He's like, I know, I know, but I just wanted you to hit. And I was like, no, it's like a game to these people. It's a game, man. And it's like, I remember, you know, I ran into him years later. - The photographer. - No, the agent that sent me into that last time when I finally quit and I was like, don't ever call me again. I'm done. That was the last thing I ever do in this business, but it was so weird seeing him years later. The universe has a funny way doing this. The night of my reach or premiere for season one. - Oh, wow. - I ran into this dude at the lobby. I was like, Alan, Alan and I was like, oh my God, I know that. And I turn around and it's him. And he really started my acting career out of just a pure hatred for where I was in that business. And I was looking for opportunities to like, just do something else outside of modeling. - He drove you out of that business. - He drove me out of that business. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And then there I was about to experience the most success I'd ever had many years later. And it was like confirmation that I survived it well. - Yeah, yeah. - Into the right thing. - Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare, we are supported by all state. Checking all state first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking that your keys are actually in your hand before you close the car door. Have you ever stood in a parking lot full of sun staring at your keys sitting right there on the seat four inches away and completely useless to you? It's a very specific kind of humbling. Yeah, checking first is a good idea. So check all state first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast reliable help when you need it, add an all state roadside plan today. You're in good hands with all state. Potential savings vary insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions and availability insurance provided by all state North American insurance company Northbrook, Illinois, roadside assistance plans provided by all state motor club, incorporated in all state affiliate. Could you go all the way to letting go of the resentment? I don't know for the listener Allen just for road I don't know, man, I feel so much right now just thinking about that because it's also like up to these people to want to create change in the world. I can let go of the resentment and then what does that do for the world? It allows these predatory fuckers to like just continue. Look at the politics that we deal with right now, like, like the White House is in ruins. Oh, I fucking UFC cage on the lawn and like, man, just do it. You just fucking do it. And nobody says anything and no consequences. It wasn't done legally. There's no plan in place. Now you're asking for money, so it's like, it's like, what are we doing? And there's no consequences. And so I'm just supposed to let go of my resentment that this fucking guy is just raping the world that he lives in for whatever gain he personally can have. And I'm supposed to let that go. And then what? It fucking still exists. Yeah. No, I'm not going to let him go. I fucking hate it. I hate that that shit still lives in the world, unabated, unchecked, unresolved, unclansed. Look at the Catholic church and like the predatory behavior that is just going completely unmet with those victims that are still unheard, unseen, no forgiveness, no resolution, no cure. And what is releasing the fucking resentment going to do for the world? Like I mean, we should hold on to some of that anger. So somebody gets guy rich eating wakes up in a pool of their own teeth and blood. Well, also just okay, just sorry. I tried to get more. No, no, no, no, no. We're in an awesome spot. This is the place for that. This is why my wife hates me right away. She's like, you can't get that mad about a coffee. I'm like, I feel shit. I know. I know. This is fucking lovely. Okay, so just two things. I'm nine years older than you, I think eight years older than you. I'm 43. I'm 51. And then I've had to be in AA for 22 years or 23 years, right? So there is a saying in AA, which is resentments are fine for other people. A lot of people can hold resentments. Addicts can't. Addicts drink over resentments. The resentments are drinking poison and hoping your enemy dies. Yeah. So if you start from just a different perspective, which is like, A, am I the type of person that can hold resentments? I can't live with them. They fuck me up and then I have to medicate. And you have, as we just talked about, a whole bevy of fun. I don't think I'm that different. Yeah. You have a sweet, admittedly. Yeah. Yeah, you have a suite of behaviors that my hunch is resentments don't do well in your body either. Yeah. Yeah. And you currently are laying it out as if it's a binary option. It's let all the fucking sickos win or carry the fire in your stomach at all times and let it fuck with your cortisol. There's a third option, which is like you can confront all that. You can be vocal about all that. And you can free yourself from the toxic part, which is like the resentment or there's an option D. Barrett 50 cal from 1300 yards. I think there's an option. There's an option C, which is what I think I tend to do. Probably not well. Obviously, there's a lot that comes up and manifests in like unhelpful ways. Yeah. I admit that. Okay. But I have accomplished, I think a lot of good because I have used the resentment that I probably have not let go of and turned it into motivation to accomplish things that I think benefit other people. It becomes motivation and grit and drive to like make the world a better place in a real meaningful way. I don't want to get into politics. Like if I do, it's because I have so much resentment for the evils of the world that have abused the power and politics and neglected the opportunity and their obligation to help people en masse. I would go into that field and beat all these fucking people at their own game and be the best politician in the world so that I can have access to helping people in a way that they should have been helped the whole time. That's going to come from a place of resentment. I hate to say it. Like how else do you get there with that? And otherwise you get complacent and content and I hate that. It stops inertia. It makes you sedentary, lethargic, apathetic. I am so allergic to those things. It's not in me. I'd rather be motivated by resentment and this ugly fuel that actually gets shit done in the world. Okay. Great. First of all, I love you. You're a brother. Like what's going on in your head is so familiar to what's going on in my head. Okay. I just want to say that. Secondly, you would acknowledge that you're not going into the gym for two hours with resentment as the fuel. Are you? I have. You have. Yeah. Okay. I have before. My hunch is you're quite motivated in many domains of your life without that being the fuel. Sure. You're only like there's enough catalyst elsewhere. Think of the effort you put in out of love for your boys, right? For the effort you put in for your wife, like effort is at your disposal. The thing I feel from you that I have so deeply is fucking bullies. The number one for me. And Monica's watch this a dozen times out in the real world. It drives everyone around me nuts. I cannot observe it and I get involved. I'm literally powerless. If I see someone that's bigger and stronger or has more leverage victimizing, so I just got it fucking getting involved. So I just want you to know. I do. It's late. You guys can hang out. Or we should. We should take a walk. It would be an amazing time until the unfortunate moment that we're like something is dropped in front of you that's like needs to be addressed. And then you take care of it. Confront it. And then you go back to him. But guess what? If you two are there or one of you, there's always going to be that moment every single time. What does that say about humanity? Because you know, because you know, humanity, you're always looking for it. You find what you're looking for. But that's true. I have learned that over time. It's my main mission in life is to protect people from bullies. Guess what I find all the time that other people aren't even seeing. And guess who he becomes? A bully? Well, hold on. Is that a bully if you're bullying a bully? Listen, that's not necessarily true. And it's tricky. Listen, I'm such a justice freak as well. So I like see you and I love that you care so much. I think you can care deeply and do all the things and not be like exactly. I guess I just, you know, I want you to be right. I'm right about everything. I know I'm not. When I look out on the world, the people that seem to enter this state of complacency and contentment that looks like a loss of inertia in the fight for justice. And that scares me. I understand it being scary. I really do because I'm the same way that would be like my greatest fear. It's like just the world messed up. What are you going to do? Yeah, that's the world. We need a thousand more people that are full of anger and rage and a thousand less people than like, what are you going to do? I mean, tell me I'm wrong. Well, I happen to live with an example, right? So I mean, tell you one story. Unfortunately, the listeners already heard it 20 times, but I think you'll dig it. This happened. I don't know. Maybe 10 years into me with Kristen. One of these things happened, right? Well, I know we were driving down Sunset Boulevard, someone threw a fucking huge drink at the windshield of my car emergency break up, and I'm beating the show of the guy in front of the news stand in front of chat, tell him more, I'm in a suit. We're on our way to an event. Amazing. So what my wife told me at some point, which broke through all of it, she said, I think you think that you protect everyone in your life that you love. And it's so sweet. And I said, yeah, that's why I'm here. I'm here to protect my mom who got her S kicked, my little sister, my brother, anyone I love. And she said, it's so honorable and you just want to make me feel safe, right? And I go exactly. And she goes, I feel so unsafe when I'm with you because anything can happen. And I've observed a lot of stuff happen. And that was the breakthrough for me, or I was like, well, fuck me, because my goal is to make you feel safe. And if I'm making you feel very scared, I need to recalibrate at least around her. Is that registered at all? It's like, I was getting the opposite reaction that I was hoping I was giving to the people I loved. That registers to me, but I'm fully capable of like holding on to two ideas and truth at the same time. Yeah, I think. And so I wonder if that fucking whoever has ever chucked a cup at a car ever again, doubt it's ever happened. And so not everybody is cut out for really a lot of people are not the warriors, right? We need some people who are different. That's right. People of 100 people, someone's about to meet me and, you know, anything about the conservative party these days. There's so much toxicity there and corruption, I think. And you could sort of blank it like all Republicans are bad or whatever, but there's something about the genetic makeup of some of those people that become like soldiers and stuff. Like we need people who are a little bit like, I'm going to do this, you know? I understand that there's a balance to culture where we need somebody. And not everybody is meant to be around that kind of, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't also live in a world where we actually create scenarios where that guy probably has never done that to somebody else again. By the way, I want you know, I'm in the middle of you too, fully. We had a big debate on here, I bet you can guess what month it was or I was so happy. I don't think a video has ever made me happier than watching you beat the shit out of the guy. Yeah. That fucking shoved you on your motorcycle. And Monica and I had a fucking half hour debate on this show about that. Yes. 'cause I loved it. It was my favorite thing I saw. - So funny. - And then even just the poll. beautiful anywhere. It's like the cops are going to charge him and then you were a mentioned drunk. Like the whole thing was in a bow, my ideal scenario. And I was saying to Monica, and I do believe this and I'm with you on this, which is like, yeah, that's all finding good for people who play by your moral code. If you're all playing the same game, that's fine. You can all operate that way. But there's going to be a handful of people. There is Putin in Russia. There is fucking Kim Jong, you know, these people are real. They exist. They're not playing by those rules. Someone on our side has to play by their rules. So I do believe that deeply. Yeah. There is a time and a place. And I'm not asking to give up any of that. What I would hope is that we can do that without carrying the toxic part that hurts us. That's really my only dream for you or for me. I want to share in your dream. Did you ever read the giver? No. What's that? In like middle school, I think it is like required reading in our school. Brentthway, it's as a friend of mine. He played them in the movie, the giver. It's so funny. Because essentially the story is in that world, somebody has this gift to receive all basically all the memories and pain of the rest of society, right? And so they impart that emotion to the giver. And he's the vessel for that then for the community. And it becomes a burden that you realize like one person is not meant to hold all this. So he becomes a bit of a sacrificial lamb. And it's a very interesting glimpse into like the psychology of like communal pain and suffering and knowledge and the zeitgeist and all that. But like some people are, I think, kind of meant to be the giver for a lot of people that's like their lot in life is like, yeah, I'm the one that's going to have to carry this for us. You know, some people say an empath is like a defense mechanism that people learn and others say that you're a deeply sensitive human being that just feels vibrations, you know, sort of ahead of other people. And really they're the canary in the coal mine. I got to tattoo of a canary because I had this conversation with my middle boy so many times about these deeply feeling, you know, experiences where you know, realize like there are some people in society who's who roll it is unfortunately or fortunately for us to be the canary in the coal mine when the pain in the energy body, the pain body grows to the point where it's like somebody has to raise a hand and go like, it's so great. I can't take it. And then I think we also have archetypes in our society that are then the people that have to go out and fight that people that have to go out and heal people that have to feed, you know, I'm with you. I do believe that we are this wonderfully dynamic group of different character types that help us all succeed as one species. I want to be clear about something because I was dragged and we had a debate about you. Well, about the situation. As Zach said, he was like, yeah, I love it. Oh my god. It's so great. I love this dude now. I know. I was like, we got to have him on. No, but I am very much for justice. In fact, sometimes we argue about this where I'm like, no, no, no, we have to say we have to be on this show saying this like it is important. And he's like, this isn't the place for that. We don't need to do that. So I am very justice oriented as well. But I literally cannot. I do not have the physicality to enact justice. Well, I am a sheriff, but not with violence, not with physical acts, but I do it another way. And so I guess my thought is like, there are multiple ways to be a sheriff and to be angry and to speak up and to help facilitate the thing that you ultimately want, which is for people to care. Yeah, you know. And so I think there's more than one way to do that. One way doesn't involve your publicist having a lot of work today. But you're sharing in the way that you can with people who respond to that type of sharing. You're in the lane you were born into and you're doing it to your ability, which is like you're very smart. You're very assertive. You're not afraid of confrontation. You'll get an email battle. You'll get on the phone and get in a verbal battle. You're doing the things that you can do and you're born to do. And also there's dudes shoving people in public and pulling people out of cars. So your skill set's not going to work in that situation. You can't call the dude. You're not going to send an email. And so I happen to be born this size. I had a older brother. I fought a lot. So that's now my role in that situation. But I think what we're arguing for is like, it's okay that that's a domain. This is a domain. I don't think anyone should be out picking fights. But I do think people should be protecting other people when they see someone getting hurt. I do think you should protect other people. If you take anything to the extreme, you start to get a better sense of it, right? If I reach a place of enlightenment where I've let go of all resentment and anger and contempt, which sounds fascinating. I would love that future for myself. And for everybody, really you achieve a state of like zen, almost like a monk. Imagine like me becoming like a totally empty vessel for the now as a monk. I just don't think society can run off nothing but monks. I agree with you. I agree. I also don't think it's just possible even wanting for that. Yeah. And so I don't know where that leaves us. But I guess that's where the conflict lies for me where it's like that just doesn't seem like a realistic solution to society. But don't you think tens and we talked about this a lot with this type of personality that you did. It's great. There's so many wonderful things about it. There really, really are. I wouldn't be still sitting here if there weren't. But you guys, I do think tend to operate at tens and once. This is true. You know, always. Yeah. And the tens are really fun for everyone. They're great. It's like, Oh my god. This is the best. And then we're in the sand. The guys are like, Oh my god, untenable. Yeah. And so I do think the overall goal has to be to live between like a three and a seven. You know, that's so well said. I'll agree and relate to that point. You're right. I think that makes sense. I can buy into that. I think you get down to seven. I love that. Look, in my faith, you know, my core belief is, I'm a Christian. I think what Jesus came to do was less establish a religion and more establish a way of leading with self-sacrificial love. It costs you something to love like that. 200 bucks. A little bit of time. My wife's right. It's no problem. Right. Yeah. It's basically nothing. You're keying into like, I think the most deep-saker truth in our entire universe is which that we are made to sort of in this environment, lead with the self-sacrificial love and all opportunities to do that. I think if we lived in a world where everybody's looking for opportunities to sacrifice a little bit of themselves or a lot to make other people's worlds better, that's heaven. Yeah. You know, the whole idea of like heaven and hell and you're going to do bad and there's some transaction that takes place and you either go get this prize or you go to this bad place, like that's not it. It's, we have the opportunity to create with our tongue, with our words, with our actions hell or heaven right here right now and experience the fullness of what is on offer. Okay. Did you know that Alan was on American Idol? After three years of modeling, he became a contestant on American Idol top 86 came for Hollywood week. Yeah. Got caught. I think you got a brutal cut. My real world experience on the show, I was full of curiosity and I was full of gratitude. I had never been to LA before and everything about it was to me. The energy of this town was just full of passion. It was infectious. I more approached life as like a realist and an opportunist and somebody who's like, I don't really know what I want to do, but I hope it's cool and fun and I'll give it my best when I find it. But I would suddenly around people that would kill to have a record contract literally slit your throat if it would help them. It meant so much to them and fast forwarding the day we got cut. I remember they came in. I kind of tell it was going to happen. There was three groups, I think, and we were the first group to go. And so, you know, found out and I was like, well, it's a cool experience. And I remember the person next to me fell on her back, like doing a dead cockroach, screaming and whaling. Like into the sky. Like it was like her whole life and everybody she loved had just been taken from her. I was just observing it. Like, what is it like to watch something that bad? Right. Yeah. Like, what is it like to want something that bad I'd never felt that before. Yeah. And then I think there's something wrong with me as an artist because I'm like, I think I could figure out a way to I don't think I'm not going to cry. Yeah. You know? And so then I think maybe I'm not meant to do this. Maybe I'm not really an artist because I don't feel like that. Yeah. You're not going to die if it doesn't. I'll just figure out another way. There's always another way. So it wasn't the interesting eye-opening experience for me. And it made me want to move out to LA. I still didn't know about acting at that point. But for me, as I was like, I guess this is a bit of a musical mecha. So this would be a great place. And I want to be around people that feel like they're going to die if they don't get this thing. I just want to learn about what that is. I was cat doing with like, hey, now we're moving to Hollywood. She was always she liked it. She grew up in a little town called Diffini X Springs on a little farm. And I grew up in Niceville. I think we're meant for bigger and better things. I mean, nothing wrong with that place. But it was like, I had to get out of there. Yeah. Also, you coming to ADHD, Nirvana, Hollywood. Yeah. Stimuli, the energy. Yeah. The fucking frenetic chaos. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A city of opportunity. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just wanted to be around opportunity. You just had a real stutter started 15 years, 16 years for the first few years that coasted on instincts. The American Idol thing sort of opened some doors to where people that I would meet, like, do you have like an agent or manager? And I'm like, no, you know, well, I can get you a meeting on this thing and just talk about how you were an American idol. And so it kind of got me in a couple of rooms. And then my very first thing was I played Aquaman on small bill. Yeah, 2005 to 2010. Yeah. I guess I started some on that. But there was a poignant moment and all this right, which is your guest starring on that show. And then they were going to spin off of Aquaman. Yeah. That happened. So right out of the gate. And you know, again, coast. none instincts didn't know what I was doing but it was working. I started in season five on Smallville and there was a ratings record. The episode I came in on. So pretty deep into the show. They're like suddenly boost in ratings. Yeah. Nobody was showing up for me. But I mean, it was like, I think they thought the idea was that this character was so exciting that it was like something. Yeah. And so I was offered my own show. And it was very strange because like out of nowhere, suddenly I'm getting calls from the studio at like 10 o'clock a night, this guy'd be like, Oh, and I'm your guy. I'm here to keep you out of trouble. It's going to be a rocket ship. If you ever go to the club, you get a little too drunk. You get in a fight. We're going to clean your mess up. You call me first. Okay. And I was like, wow, what is that? That's Hollywood. And oh, five and oh, five. Yeah. It's not like that now. But and I was such a goody two shoes. I was like, well, I'm never going to call this guy. Yeah. And there was a merger at the time that happened between one of brothers and UPN to create the CW and the president of UPN took over at the time and looked at the slate. Like, he's got a guy with no resume whatsoever. He's going to get his own show. Yeah. And so they kind of canned it. Then Justin Hartley. So they came back to me, though, because they had hired somebody and he got into trouble. I guess he didn't fall that. That's not going to work. And so they came back. We started the deal again. And I was like, Oh, I have me to do my show. And then all of a sudden, Justin came off passions. And they were like, Oh, this guy just came available. They really like him for this. Yeah. And it was perfect for me starting out because I realized, Oh, you got to hold real loosely to this stuff right. Until you're like, check is in the bank. You're in front of the camera. Nothing is certain. It's air to the premiere. And people go to the premiere and see themselves in a movie. They're not in it. Like you know, wait till it's in theater. Even though you know if you're, it was a good life lesson for me to like just be real. Just hold loose. So that would be up to 2010. And then 2014's kind of pivotal as well, because you get an opportunity audition for Thor. Yeah. And walk me through. Yeah. So I had been on a show called Blue Mountain State, which still has a lot of cultural relevance, which is what I held to me because it's just at the time when we were making it, it just got missed. You know, Spike TV trying an original scripted show for the first time. And there was really no audience for it, but still number one in the 18 to 35 male demo. And just people that it was four found it and liked it. But it was like, I could go outside. No problem. No problem. Nobody knew who we were. And the show was canceled. Spike scrapped their scripted department. It was sold to Netflix. And at the time, I think Netflix was like still smelling DVDs. Yeah, right. And I'm like, who's nuts? You know, it's just sold to Netflix. And then became like number one comedy on their platform. And suddenly I was in South Africa working on something. And we're going up like a lion's head on a hike with my kids and everybody's stopping me. Oh, that castle. And I was like, what's happening? I had been on the show for six seasons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so something happened in that moment where I was like, Oh, like on the guy. There we go. There we go. There we go. Yeah. You should be at the end of your work. Right. I have like this kind of arrogance towards my contributions to that show. And I saw things happening in the industry that I felt like it's not really about talent. I was just who's hot in the moment. It's also almost impossible to evaluate yourself at that age in that moment. And Holly would honest show it's like one day you're like, I think I'm the best member of this cast. And I'm doing so. You're like, I don't mean I'm in this show with knowing. It's like, it's so fucking hard. I didn't have the right attitude. And I certainly had never, again, I'm just an opportunist tripping my way through one opportunity after another and kind of meeting it with instincts and luck. And just happen to look like Aquaman enough. So when Thor comes around, I felt like I booked the Aquaman thing just kind of based off looks like I look like the guy. I'm just booking if I look like the guy and I had my sides in my hand. I didn't even memorize it. You know, I was like, I just was like reading. It was a uniquely unusual audition in the sense that it was kind of what people who are in the business picture when they, like it was a theater stage. There was a spotlight. The curtains had been drawn and there were two people in a darkened theater in chairs. Why is the casting director and it's just, it was as kind of uncomfortable as it gets. I just kind of half-assed it. And it was so bad that the casting director called my team and they're like, we never do this. We've seen thousands of guys. We're not going to waste our time. However, when he walked in, I turned to my sister and I said, if he has the craft, this part is his. And he did not have the craft. He did not show up. And this was his part to lose. And I was like, oh, yeah. And that hit me. And I knew I was standing at a crossroads where I had a decision to make about who I wanted to be in the business. And I, enough success to feel like I think I'm doing what I'm supposed to do for the rest of my life. Yeah. I need to take this seriously because I never want that feedback again. I don't even know what it means. The craft. I was like, what is the craft? It was so nebulous to me. So I kind of took a break. I started studying with this guy every day. I would come in for three weeks just to work on the sides because I said, I want to know what I was supposed to look like. Yeah. Yeah. There was just one read three weeks in where he goes, that, did you feel that? And I go, yeah, now how do you do that in 24 hours? He goes, that's the craft. Yeah. It's craft. Everybody keeps talking about. I started working with Deb Aquila. She's now head of casting at Paramount. Yeah. She ran a little tight, little masterclass. And my agent was trying to get me in and just spend six months or a year, like just studying the way that I should have studied and learning from her. And she didn't want to take me. I know you are. You're the guy that yells on that stupid show. And I was like, Oh, I could do so much more. Yeah. I read some quotes from her. She didn't mince words with her evaluation of you at the time. No. No, she's not a fan. Yeah. And I had to find my way. And so I said, I go, give me something to prove myself. So she gave me this really hard. You know, she thought it was going to be like, he's never going to do. Come back at 9 a.m. And I was like, all right. And I go home and work my ass off. And I'm like, I'm going to prove to this person that I'm going to be good at this. And I showed up the next day. I nailed it enough to where she was like, okay, you can be in the class. But if you fuck around and you think you're here for women or whatever you yell, yeah, not like that. I'll kick you out in two seconds. Okay. And so the first time I showed up to that class, nobody said a word. It was like a cult. It was silent. Everybody sits down. I'm like, I don't know. Anybody. Nobody looks at me. Nobody says anything. I'm not okay. You're the new kid. It was like probably 20 people. And in walk these two guy to girl, and they wait up front and they're quiet and Deb walks in. And she just kind of nods her head like this. Nobody said a word. Oh, wow. And they launch into this piece and they're signing to each other. And so I'm like, oh, they're like hearing it. But I was so captivated by this like 10 minute piece that they did. I was crying. It was so moving. They get on it. She goes the same kind of idea. She's like, that was what we've been working to. How did you feel about that? I was like, oh, that was what I did understand. I was like, wait, wait, wait. They know sign language. They learn sign language for this class. Yeah. No one's ever going to see the work they just did. Yeah. You know, they say like a sign of a true artist is somebody that can do their work, like paint their picture, write their song and throw it away. And nobody will ever know. That's really like when you know that that's what you're born to do is when it's not for anybody. It's definitely not for money. It's not commercial. It's internal. Yeah. And it's like Socrates even talked about this. We have an obligation. There's a moral and ethical need for us to create for non-commercial reasons. It's so against our capitalist upbringing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing's worth doing unless monetizing. So my whole world view is like sort of being corrupted in that moment where I buy this beautiful thing that I just witnessed that was for the 15 or 20 people in that space. Yeah. And no one else would ever see it. And they did all that work for that sign language. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It blew my mind. Yeah. That moment changed my career forever. Yeah. And I go, that's what I'm up against. And that's who's working in the business. And that's like what is expected. And that's how they work. And they're not even doing this for a paycheck. Yeah. I better never complain about the work that I'm doing and I better show up. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. Now how were you navigating you had security on Bloom Mountain? Bloom Mountain? Yeah. You had security or regular three seasons. How were you dealing with gaps in security emotionally, mentally? Well, my wife supported us in the early stages of our career. She was a senior financial analyst at ICM. Oh, wow. It was pretty helpful for us because when I started to get to the point where there were contracts being negotiated, she's like, so Jennifer Anniston gets it. I don't think they're going to get it. But she knew enough for me to be like, oh, this is actually what's possible. It was helpful, you know, but we've eventually transitioned into her being a stay at home mom. So when we started having kids, she left. So that's nice. You had the safety net of her, but your own value worth, I'm a failure. Were you good in those periods in between or were they? Funny. You know, after that storm moment, when I had decided what I was going to be, there was no stopping me. When I decide that I'm going to be the best at something, I'm going to be the best at it. And you just have to move. And I'm still that way. And I've always been that way, you know, but I just hadn't really made that decision. It hadn't galvanized in my head what I needed to do with my life or how to do it. That was a pivotal moment for me. From then on, it's like, I'm going to be the best in the business. I'm going to get everything I'm after. I'm going to win every prize. I'm going to win every contest. You're the American Idol girl. Yeah. And I got enough feedback from life. Thank God. You know, that was like, you're in the right place doing this. You know, I screen test for four or five things and I wouldn't get it. I'm like, I'm not just going up for 100. I just say, nothing happens. I was for everything. And when I wasn't, I was like, well, then I'm definitely not right for it. I'm okay. Because I'm right for enough. You know, and I remember one day, I don't think I've ever told this story, but I went out for a show called Titans. I went out for the lead role is essentially Rob. And you know, it's a kind of a show about side kicks. And I remember walking out of that audition so confident that I called cat. She go, how to go? I go, I'm going to go buy a car. And she goes, yeah, I'm going to buy a Tesla. I just booked that show. And she goes, you booked it. Book didn't. I was like, well, no, but I'm going to book that show. And I went and bought a car. Wow. And at the end of the time, that thing was so fast as production car, you know, at the time, and I'm whipping around in this Tesla, and I have no idea if I really have the part of that. My instincts were right. I got a call. And they were like, they'd like to offer you a different part of the show. And I was like, excuse me. Yeah. I just bought a car. Yeah. I need the lead. And they're like, no, they don't feel like you're right for the lead. I was like, I killed it. And they were like, no, they just want so many little young and actually feel you're really right for heck. He's like a pill pop in alcoholic vigilante. He's a little edgier and they feel like that's you. And I was like, no, and at the time, I passed so many times. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was like, no, I'm the lead or nothing. And at the time, Shazam was happening, but I was on the way to screen testing and eventually screen tested for Shazam and had a lot of positive feedback from the studio. And so I kept getting these calls from like Jeff John's about doing Titans. And I was like, no, dude, I was born to play Shazam, like a kid superman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And on the one hand, they just kept offering me more money. Yeah, that's right. And I was like, I'm not negotiating. I really am not going to do it. Yeah. And eventually I got to the point where I remember I was in my backyard in LA, Jeff John's called again. He was like, listen, I know for a fact, you're not going to get Shazam. The director really wants to work with somebody else, but I'm not going back to you for this part. You have to say right now, he was like, so devastated, but I was like, all right, I'll do it. And so I took this other part, which I really enjoyed, but Hawk and Doug was a fun time. Yeah. But yeah. So anyway, but I had almost no days off since then. That was a pretty interesting time in my career. There was some catapulting happening to like newer rungs on the ladder. But until then, I mean, to answer your question, there was like a relentless belief in myself after I decided like, I know what I'm doing. Okay. So 2020, we start talking about Jack Reacher. Yeah. And you get that. You have to put on a ton of muscle. Yeah. It was the first time I got a call from the studio and they were like, so let's talk about your workout. And I was like, this is the first time this conversation has ever happened. We've got a lot of fun calls I've never gotten, like the fixer, though, let's talk about working out. I've never gotten those calls. I didn't love the call about your weight. Like, you need to be bigger and stronger in fact, and I was like, whoa, most people just trust that I'll show up. I've never had that call being out of the microscope. Like that really taught me a lot. I can empathize with what women really experienced in the business because that's like commonplace for women. Yes. It's hard. Yeah. When suddenly, like, I mean, my head about my body. So I'm like, everybody's looking at me and they're like, we want photos and send us weekly. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. Yeah. I wouldn't like that. Yeah. It was hard, but I made it my mission. Although on their side, if I make the argument for them, which is like, in the book, he's fucking enormous. Like mythologically large. Yeah. Like, in fact, I only know this because I was researching you, but yeah, there was a revolt when Tom Cruise played him because people were like, what the fuck are we talking about? The guys must be six five and humongous. Yeah. So in their defense, it's like, we're going to spend a fortune on this. This is going to be the thing. It has to be perfect. The guy's got to be enormous. That's what we want. That's not for you. Great. I also believe in that, which is like, no, no, this is the thing we want and I was really unproven. Nobody in the studio, system there or at the network was like slam dog understood kind of like who I was. I'm just a guy. They're like taking a huge bet on. Yeah. Yeah. It was risky. Right. And so they don't know who I am. They don't know my work ethic. They don't know my drive. They don't know anything about me. And they're just like, we need to manage this. They micromanaged that mom and my career. You know, Don Granger who I love. I'm a huge fan. And he's been my boss on preacher since the beginning. He's no paramount. But like he was Tom Cruise's partner for forever and Skydance dude. Yes. We're in Skydance. No paramount. He wrote me a five page handwritten letter about every detail of what that performance you look like and gave it to me the day before we started shooting before in this scene. This is what you should do with your face. Your jaw. This is what you should clench. This is how you should look relaxed. It was micromanaged. And I appreciate it. Yeah. It was super helpful because I was like, all right. I'll take all this in. Yeah. Give me more. I was like, ready for that. I wanted it. I realized I was a very small part of a big machine and it was going to be a village that was making this character come to life. And I was just sort of the vessel, right? And so I released myself to this feeling of like, this is mine. I'm impressed. That would have triggered every insecurity I'm walking around with. Like, oh, this dude assumes I can't do any of this. Totally. I had to let that go because I knew it was bigger than myself. And I wanted to succeed, right? And so I was like, this is probably what this one is going to take. To work, there were a lot of cooks in the kitchen and nobody quite knew what Richard was at the beginning. And so everybody had a different take. He's more stoic. He's more mean. He's more angry. He's funny. And so I knew the part well enough. I had every script memorized completely. So now it'd be like, okay, my turn. And so another producer would walk over and can I do the version where Richard's really funny and kind of like loose about it? I don't know. All right. Let's do that. Oh, cool. They gave themselves all the options so they could make it anything they wanted. There's a version of Richard for season one that's every version you can imagine. The Richard is fucking enormous. Like 56 million global viewers in one week of season two. I don't know if people understand how enormous that show is. It's pretty unprecedented. It's fucking mega. What's crazier for me centers on this one person, this titular character. It's not like stranger things where you're part of like an amazing ensemble. I mean, yes, we're part of an ensemble every year, but it's an anthology and it's mostly rotating. And for that much visibility to really be on one person is very unusual and a gift in so many ways and I'm so grateful. And then it's opened up the door to all these other projects, one of which I watched last night. Motor City. What do you think? I fucking loved it. As I think I told you right when you walked in, I watched it with Kristen last night and she was blown away, which I love the most because I'm like, I'm going to watch this movie this due day on. I'm sure it's going to be violent. Like, I'm going to love it. Yeah. You know, if you want to watch it, you're like, yeah, I'll watch it. But it's so much more than that. It's so Shakespearean. Yeah. It's so unexpected. So, it's a silent movie moniker. No dialogue. Wow. Wow. Dialogue. And it's so funny because, of course, I've not seen a trailer. I've known nothing about it. We sit down. We watch it. It's fucking opening scenes. Really cool. Kristen's like, oh, that was a cool kind of montage to open. Like, I feel the vibe. This is good. Waiting. Okay. Now we're going to hear some talking. Once we get to like, I think maybe 10 minutes in Kristen's like, there's no way they've gone 10 minutes and then they're going to hit us with dialogue at 15. Yeah. They just kind of start realizing like, oh, fuck, they're going to do is there's this tension of like, oh, this is great. How are they going to pull that? Are they going to pull this off? Yeah. And you guys fucking pulled it off. You mean the silent movie that was riveting and awesome and visually fucking beautiful and emotional. The movie. He killed it. He really honored what was on the page. Chad St. John wrote it. Wrote it. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. It was very thin script. Or you know, so I'm like, what is this? Give it. I just say it was on the black list in 2009. So if we're going to know in Hollywood, every leading man had been attached to this thing and something. I read that. Literally Jake Gyllenhaal. Fuck. I made the list. Hugh Jackman. Like it. Chris Evans. Gary Oldman was an Gerald Butler Adrian Brody. It was Greenland nine times different directors. When I read that script, I remember I sat back and I was like, oh, I just read a masterpiece. I've never felt so deeply connected to at that point in time to a piece of material that I just read. And it was so moving. I was like, this has to get made. Yeah. So for people who aren't in Hollywood, the black list became this thing. I don't know what year. But basically all these scripts pass through town, mostly assistants just read them. They kick them up to the agent. If it's good and then the agent kicks it to the actors and producers are involved. But at the end of every year, there's kind of this committee that decides what was the best scripts that didn't get made. Yeah. And it's the black list. And it's a cool list of like, you know, the 10 best scripts or however many it is. And this was one of them. For a long time. Yeah. It was the brainchild of Greg Silverman who at the time was president of Warner Brothers. It was interesting because he called Chad and he go, I want to make a movie with no dialogue so that everybody around the world can have the same shared experience without language getting in the way. And Chad's like, okay. And this is what he cooked up. Well, by the way, it forces you as a writer to do the thing you're told as a writer to do, which is like, don't tell me anything you could show me. That's one of the principles of screenwriting. We rely so heavily on verbal cues, it's just one tool in our toolkit, right? And so when you remove that, you have to make really interesting choices, right? And so anyway, man, I'm so proud of it. I want so badly for this to do well so that we can continue to make more interesting stories like this. Just continue to stretch the canvas for what's possible for storytelling in Hollywood. Yeah. It's a radical, huge swing that totally worked. I'm so glad you feel that way. So it's set in 1973 Detroit, ding, ding, ding, you're an ex-con. You meet a girl and an alley. She's getting roughed up by her boyfriend or we're assuming her boyfriend. You handle a bat dude and his buddies. You guys start dating and then there's a frame up. And now the movie kind of takes off, right? For me, I think this would be a really unique fun challenge because I rely on my verbal everything. It's all I am. I'm talking machine and I'm an improv machine and I'm not sure I can give you the face that you need emotionally, but I give you, like, right, I'm part of the problem. I rely on that so much to do a movie where you took away my superpower and I just had to convey everything through action. Yeah. I feel the same way. I mean, it feels limiting and it feels like is this going to be enough? And I also don't want to like over project because I feel like I'm like compensating for anything. For me, I was like, I guess I'm really just going to trust this. Yeah. But potty is a genius and you could just tell he had it under control. He comes from commercials and videos. It's very stylized, right? Music video. This is not very stylish. Yeah. I haven't seen his other two movies. He made one about Billy, the kid that was such a cool, interesting take on that story. It played really well. I think Venice or can't. You got noticed in the right way. Yeah. Yeah. Visually, it's fucking stunning. Shaline Woodley's in it. She's incredible. Ben Foster's amazing. Ben Foster. He's usual. It's just so fantastic. And it's such a cool experience. And yeah, I'm glad to hear that Silverman was. conscious of this directive, because I was thinking when we were watching it, not even knowing that, I think I said to Chris and I'm like, oh yeah, there's like Cirque du Soleil. I want to 60 minutes on Cirque du Soleil. And the reason that's the most successful show on Vegas year over year is because everyone visiting from Japan, from China, anywhere, the Middle East, they go to this show, and they enjoy it just as much as the people. And I was like, oh, this is cool. And it's a spectacle. Intentionally international. Yep. Yep. Yeah, it's very cool. Because so much stuff going on, I'm not really sure how you made all this stuff, but Reacher comes out sometime this summer. Yeah, I've got Motor City, July 24th and theaters. I don't think we've announced the exact day, but we have Reacher very shortly after season four, and I think it's the best season we've made yet, by far. Wow. And then you have Runner with Owen Wilson. And we have Runner with Owen Wilson. That's September. We don't know that. I think I read that online. Yep. How'd you like working with him? Alright, great time. He's super smart. So smart. Starmingly smart. Yeah, because you know, you have some ideas as we all do, like you have some false relationship with characters that he's played and comedians in general, they're playing with phones and movies. Yeah, exactly. But anyway, you meet him. He's hyper intelligent. Oh, yeah. And very thoughtful. And I get feedback a lot. I've really moved like heavily into producing, and so developing material, setting material up at studios, and then executing that. I love doing that. And part of that is because I can see the macro well, right? I'm never just looking at my character. I'd develop all the characters in story. I just wrote this Vietnam story that we shot for Amazon. I've got co-wrote that. What's it called? Thornton. Incredible movie. It's in the can now we're in post, but it was a writer on that. Like I like being a part of these ideas and mining for the best story there, but not a lot of actors. A lot of them are more myopic, right? And so when you get into conversations with actors that you're hiring or you're working with, the conversations almost always stay in the realm of like their character. You know, I wouldn't do that. And what if my character did this? And that's sort of to be expected. And so when you show up and have a conversation and he's talking about in the 1600s or sailors that were going into the port city. And I started thinking for this story, it sort of might be just read a weird book. Totally. That he's processing everything coming in through this. It's philosophical, the next essential and thoughtful and just so much more about the big picture of what we're making and why. It caught me off guard a little bit. All three of those Wilson brothers are shockingly brilliant. Yeah. And I think the parents were professors in Dallas or some there. At least one of them was and they just read all day long. But their story tellers, they do know how to tell a whole story. All those things he wrote with Wes. Those are like the best West movies are the whole one in West movies. Yeah. It was great. He's really impressive. We had a great time. And then the man with the bag is Christmas time, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Santa. He crushed it. Alan, I saw the I saw the Richard. It's so good. You're doing really good. I'm so impressed. I'll tell you when I went on a motorcycle ride. I didn't know him yet. I went on a motorcycle ride. Tom Arnold invited me. We go up to the rock store in Malibu. This is 20 years. He was the governor at the time. Motorcade taking us. I'm so excited. I can't believe it. We sit down for breakfast. I get up and go to the bathroom. And when I come back from the bathroom, I sit down and he goes docs. I've seen the punk. I've seen the without the paddle. You're hilarious. I'm so excited to see everything you're going to do. And I'm like, I can't believe Schwarzenegger knows my resume. We walk outside to get on the motorcycle. And I go to Tom Arnold and I go, fucking, what about Schwarzenegger, like, knowing all my shit and he goes, "Oh, buddy, soon she went to the bathroom." He's like, "Who the fuck is this guy?" What is he doing? What was it like? We're going with him. It was a treat. He taught me a lot about how gratitude should manifest in the life of somebody dealing with fame. I'm transitioning into a part of my journey where I'm recognizing how present fame is and how toxic it is, how intrusive, but also like this relationship that I have with the audience, I'm so grateful for. And I want to foster that. I want to continue to tell stories that resonate with people. And there's like real symbiotic relationship there, right? I appreciate it. Man, I hate fame, right? Like who wouldn't? My family hates it. My kids, we're interrupted a thousand times a day when we go places and they seize up because they're invisible. You're also in a unique situation that like Vens Vaughn's in, right? Which is like, you're not hiding. There's no hiding you. You're fucking enormous. People in my family have a different relationship with it. So like my wife is like, I want you to have a very binary black one when your family is around. You do not take pictures with people. You don't allow those interruptions. And that's really hard for me because on the one hand, it's just more efficient to be like, sure, let's do this. And on the other hand, they don't know that they're the 30th person to interrupt us today. So then I'm caught in this place where I feel like bad that it's happening. And I don't want to disappoint them. It's just like, man, there's so much conflict happening, right? So you never know how those interactions are going to go, right? It's scary going on the world, you know? Because you're like, I don't know what today is going to have for us or who I'm going to frustrate. And then I work with Arnold, who deals with this on a degree that I will probably never experience, right? He has a level of fame when you're with him is something that is like, oh my god, it's hard to describe. It's 100% of people that see him. 100% of people. And his energy is so felt or understood by the zeitgeist. People feel him before they see him. And you can see them like this. And then they're like, what is this feeling in this? Disturbance and the force. Oh my god. There's like a meteor coming through. Yeah. It's like, man, his pole, the gravity is huge, right? And so he's dealt with it for decades on a degree that I can't quite understand. He stops for everybody. We were being the middle of a scene in a diner. And people would be like, bang it on the glass, you know, because our lock up wasn't tight enough. They're like, oh my god, you've been down picture with us. Oh, it'd be right there. You've got to come outside and we'll take a picture with them. I'll be having this doggy. He has no problem. He makes time for everybody. And so I look at that and I'm like, cat, if this is his attitude, like I have no excuse and she's like, he doesn't have kids. You know, so it's just like, man, anyway, but he showed me something really interesting in the way that he approaches life and his lot in life. And I really deeply admire how he treats people. You're not going to leave without telling me my favorite thing that I saw all year. So you're in your neighborhood. Do you have a doodie? No, you were on a Kawasaki. I was on an engine at the time. Yeah, you're on a Kawasaki. And then you got your boys riding. Yep. How much did you been riding in the neighborhood? Do you think it was really that annoying? Okay, for context, because people have no context about what was going on. Yeah, people just saw a video of you. I got the rights to Moto GP. I love motorcycles. They're so fun. And I want to tell stories about, you know, I want to make like a cool, fast and furious kind of like thing for motorcycles. It's like international. He's like, it's cool. I love it. It's cool. You see pits doing a TT movie right now? Yeah, I mean, you know, like hemsworth is doing a motorcycle thing. Like it's cool. It's like, we like that. It's cinematic and cool. And so, you know, we just set up a film. But I'm going to be riding every bike and that thing and riding it in crazy scenarios. I really got to know how to do every kind of stunt. So I have every kind of bike you can imagine. All levels of stunt bikes, dirt bikes. And I practice on these things all the time. Yeah. And the bike that I was riding that day, I had just received. It was custom built for me. And it's exceptionally loud. And so I never left first gear because it's not meant to go out. It's meant to go up. So I was just kind of playing with this thing while they're putting along. We're hardly moving. Yeah. The kids are riding slower. And it was our first time around. I've never met that guy ever in my life. I've never seen him before. He lied to TMZ about us. Like I told him the day before, Hey, buddy, you should really slow down. None of that was true. He wasn't even there when we went up history. We just went up one time. So he's in the back of the neighborhood. We go around right through all the streets. We go through the back call to say we do that all the time. Every day I'm in town, we do that kind of thing. When everybody knows who you are, you're used to getting strange looks from people. Right. And everybody in the neighborhood knows who I am. They know we live there. And people that kind of like gock or do a slow stare, it's normal. Right. And so I think this guy's just doing what everybody does. And you could see I'm like not really slow. Because I didn't think he was going to step in front. I thought it was like somebody go, Oh, it's going to be a rear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then all of a sudden he steps in front of me. And I'm like, What the hell? And that's when I got weird. You know, so I'm like, this is obviously not a normal reaction. But that bike, I wasn't going fast and it's loud. So I can understand how somebody doesn't know what's going to might be like, it's so loud. He's racing through the neighborhood. Yeah. You know, anyway, I get myself together. He starts coming at me pretty aggressively. I push him down. Yeah. He's a big dude, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had to be six. He was like six, six, six, three, probably four. And he was heated. And so he's stepping in my grill and I push him back. He's in your shit. He is violated. I don't do the thing where I'm like, you know, like you see videos of people on YouTube fighting and they're like, they're in their face for five minutes about the kiss and stuff like that's not going to happen with me. Right. So as soon as he started coming, I I push him back and I get close to him and I smell alcohol. And I was like, Oh, it's Sunday, like 11 a.m. This guy's drunk. So I asked him if he didn't say anything and I was like, that's what this is. And so in my mind, I'm like, all right, that's what this is. Just leave. And so I go to leave. And he gets in front of my bike again. And you can't really tell on the body camera. But he shows me two handed shoves me off the bike. Yeah. And I'm like, no, that's the second time I tried to leave the neighborhood. Yeah, you tried to deescalate a lot. That was it. At that point, there's no more conversation. Yeah. I've got to protect me and I've got to protect my kids. And I've got to get us off the street safely. Yeah. And that means getting him out of the picture. Yeah. So I hit the guy. Yeah. And as it's happening, I'm like, I really can't hurt this. I don't like knocking out. I don't want to break a bone. You want to get him out of your life with at least a amount of like aggression. You want him to go like, Oh, okay, I'm out. Yeah. But I want to just enough to where he was like, Oh, I see where this is. God, I don't want that. Yes. You didn't want that. When I watched that tape back, though, I'm like, he actually came back again. I wasn't even paying attention because I was trying to get my bike to turn back on. And when you look back at it from the neighbor's tape, which is so unhelpful to my life. Yeah. He like was on the approach again. I didn't even notice, you know, he was or other neighbor was just videoing this time. There's a couple different. That's weird. Only the last 10 seconds of that thing, none of the beginning, and it was sold to TMZ within six hours. Right. Very strange. Yeah. And this dude went and did press. I watched this guy talk. He's still full of shit. Well, blah, blah. I'm impressed you. I mean, obviously, I think it was the right decision to not press charges and just not be involved with the dude in any capacity. If anything makes you go like, make God is real. It's when you buy a chest pack a year before and you're a daily writer. And I've never once I bought it thinking like, like maybe I'll just use that so and I put it away never once if I thought like I need to put that thing on and I step into the garage that day and it was like somebody talked to me. I was like, "Where's that thing?" And I was like, "Where is that thing?" I should put that on and just see what I get. I don't even know where it is. And I dig through my cabinets and I find it tucked away on top of a shelf and I'm like, "Try to figure out how you've put it on." It's a body cam, right? It's a body cam that holds your cell phone. Yeah. If I hadn't had that, dude, I'd probably still be in jail because the cops came to arrest me that day. Yeah. And they only had the tape to go off of that, like, thank God. Yeah. Thank God. I think that I had that premonition or that intuition that I put it on, that I had it, that I could wear that. It changed the course of my life forever. Yeah. How did you respond? I mean, it took over the internet. It was the scariest thing I've ever been through. I don't like that kind of conflict. I like to work. I don't like things that are ill-gotten. I don't like bad press. Did you go straight to, "Oh, this is the shoe dropping. This is all too good. Here comes the shoe dropping." Yeah. I was like, "Oh, this is like people that, you know, talk about how like when you've reached success, you self-sabotage because people aren't okay with having success." And I was like, "I've self-sabotage myself. This is me not being ready for success," or whatever, "You start beating yourself up." Yeah. And then my kids had to experience that. It was really hard on me. That guy doesn't know how much. My kids won't ride with me anymore. Like, he robbed me of that, man. Like, fuck that, dude. Fuck that. I've so much anger. I've so much resentment that I just can't quite let go of. And I've nowhere to go because there's no real resolution there. I just decided to let it go, but he still took a lot from me. My bike still doesn't work. I still have people trying to fix it because things broke on it and it's custom parts. And so that, my kids won't ride with me. I mean, he is the most hated man on the internet. I mean, yes. I mean, you have that going for you. It definitely is like for you, but it made you a hero for me. For me. For me. I appreciate that. You know, I loved it. You tried your hardest to get out of it. I did. You had your kids with you. I fully get the whole scenario. And this dude insisted on this interaction, and then he paid the price. So in a box of with a bow, for me, you did perfectly. I appreciate that. Yeah. But I also understand when the whole world now all of a sudden is talking about you, that it just amels you terrifying. Yeah. My wife was at a retreat. The Hoffman process. Uh-huh. They take your phone. I had no way to contact her. I was the sole caretaker of our kids, right? Yeah. And so I had another week with her being gone where I couldn't even communicate with her. You just know she's getting out of Hoffman to learn this. Yeah. I'm like dealing with my kids and I'm calming them down and reassuring them that it's going to be okay. I'm going to get arrested. I'm not going to get arrested. I don't think. Yeah. The cops call me outside and there's an army of cops on my porch and I'm like dealing with this and I'm trying to call my kids down it. Like the whole thing. And she's not there. And I'm texting her. And I'm like, so I just had to punch a guy. You know, like the roller coaster of text that she experienced when she got out of there was like, so I think the day is letting me off. That's why you should always read the last email first. Yeah, yeah. The problems always solve themselves. But yeah. But I had no support in that moment. Yeah. Somebody to process it with. I was trying to be strong for my kids. Yeah. I was terrified because I thought my entire career tanked. Yeah. You know, I had CEOs of studios calling going, what is this tape? Are we okay? Yeah. Cause I deals everywhere. Yeah. It's stressful. Oh, dude. I like, I'm never going to work again. So anyway, it was a lot for me. It was very healing to see that. That's all. And again, that's sort of why though, there's just a lot of tension in being human where it's never binary, it's never as simple as going, like, you know, we have to live in the colorful gray, the gray in between that says we need to stand up for ourselves. And we also need to have a heavy heart about those kind of situations because we shouldn't want for those kind of things to transpire. And you don't. You didn't. Again, that's why you're so clean on this. You didn't want that you tried your hardest to get out of it. Yeah. I appreciate your support. Just know I was out here on your behalf. I'm sorry. I mean, your praise. Yeah. That does blow. I mean, my girls don't want to ride me out. It's temporary. It's temporary. That was our best bonding. There's nothing you find with them riding with your kids. There's nothing. There's nothing. You're like, look at us. And you drop behind. And they get done and they're like, that's the most free I've ever felt. And you're like, oh my god. What I'm building. This is amazing. Yes. Yes. Yes. And these memories that they're going to have of us doing that, I can't convince them to do it again. And I don't blame them. Yeah. They don't want to do. They don't want to deal with that, dude. Alan, I dig you so much. Thank you. Yeah. I am too. It's so cool. It's so brave. And you guys executed a very small window of reentry, whether you can make it work, and you crush it. So it's so good. I hope you'll come back season nine of a richer. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thanks, brother. Thank you. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. Monica Padman. Hi. How are you doing? I thought there was going to be more. It seemed like there was going to be a little more. Yeah, of course. Of course. It sounded like there was a statement that was going to follow, but there was. But I was really just thinking about the fact that we rode to the attic today, which is always a great start for my day. Just wanted to throw that out. Oh, that's nice. And I do worry when you live across the street. I guess I could just walk over to your house and then walk you here. Well, yeah, that might be a fun ritual. Sure. We won't ever have to travel. That's true. We can. We can walk from your house to the attic three steps. Mm. So exciting. Yeah. So, I mean, we should tell the armchair is because, I mean, not to like bring it down. I know they're going to be sad about this, but eventually our attic that we're in right now is going to get demolished. It's going to be dust and ash, but it's going to be a wild. You know that part? I hope. I'm not going to get a permit for that thing I'm trying to build. It's just not happening. Oh, great. So, well, yeah, I mean, great for the mojo of this attic. Yeah. But bad for like, I need to exercise. And that's where my exercise equipment is supposed to go. This huge garage. Uh-oh. There's no designated place in our new house. What about the gym? I mean, the basement, right? Yeah. Well, that's kind of what I've been pushing bell for. So in our current house, we have a basement and that's where I'm a gear is, right? Yeah, you do. My gear. That's where the heavy things are that I lift up and set down. Yeah. So I said, look, I know the basement of the new house is a theater room. Yeah. But it's going to probably have to be a gym for a year. She didn't know like that. She was like, put it in my office. I'm like, I can't fit all that crap in your office. Oh, what about the gear? Also, then you don't even have an office. She's not thinking things through. No. And I'm like, I can't go a year without working. How? Commit suicide in the backyard. Oh, my God. Don't say that. Oh, my God. By the way, can we talk about suicide? Oh, sure. No, this is going to be a weirdly encouraging take on suicide. Oh, goodness. Okay. For real, as I get deeper into Gladwell's book, I want you to read it so bad. I will. This motherfucker. I love it. The things he tackles. Yeah. He's so fearless. So it's talking about, oh, the famous poet, she killed herself. Emily Dickinson. No, but you're in the right world. Emily Plikinson. Life. Oh, Plath. Sylvia Plath. Sylvia Plath. So she killed herself in England and what she did was put her head in the oven and turned on the gas. And at that time, every single house in London burned a type of fuel called town gas, the not natural gas that we now use. So town gas was this kind of dirty mix of all these different gases, but you could kill yourself quite easily with it. So when all of London had town gas, the number one killer of people was town gas, was people committing suicide with town gas because it was very easy to do. And so the traditional thinking on suicide was like, well, if you get rid of town gas, people just find another way to kill themselves. And that's what I thought going into this chapter. And that's called the displacement theory that, okay, yeah, if you took away guns, then people would just use knives or whatever. But the work of a certain sociologist or psychologist started investigating and realized that there's a strong coupling aspect to suicide. So it's not just that someone's on a warpath to kill themselves. It's that they have ideations, they think about it, and then the situation is right. And so what happened was when they switched over to natural gas, the suicide rate did dramatically drop. It didn't just move over to another method. And then he goes into the folks who have jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, which I think is like 1,500 at this point. It's the amount of any structure in the world, the most people have killed themselves. And there's always been these movements to put up barriers so people couldn't do it. But then the argument was, well, no, they'll just jump off something else. We're going to spend all these millions on these barriers and they're just going to jump off something else. So why not put it into healthcare or something or some prevention, which, again, I would have probably bought into that theory. But one of these people did is investigated of the, I want to say it was like maybe 500 people who had been interrupted in their attempt to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge over 70 years. A person went and interviewed all those people that had been interrupted. And only 25 of the 500 had ended up killing themselves. Wow. Wow. Yes. Isn't that so interesting? Side is one of the hardest topics for me. I get very anxious during that kind of conversation. You know I used to have, when I had a really bad anxiety, I used to feel like I was not suicidal but I felt like all of a sudden I was going to have, I was just going to look down and I will have done it. Uh-huh. Like it will have happened to me, which is not what happens, but I was, yeah, so I had a lot of anxiety around suicide. And I think that's really profound. And sorry, I mean not to be political, but this- Well, 20,000 people killed themselves with a hand. and gun in the US. Now look, I'm a gun owner. I just want to be dead honest about that. I own guns. I also, if there was a button on the wall, I could push in, there's no guns in America. I would push that button in one second. So I have a very complicated relationship with it. I don't like them enough that I would want one kid in a school getting shot over my lot. Loving of them. Again, I know it's much deeper than that for people and it's a constitutional right and all this stuff. So I'm not even gonna get into the weeds on that. I'm only gonna say, the data he gave is that it would appear that it would cut at least 10,000 deaths off of a year off because this coupling mechanism is so strong. Just. - It's amazing. - And that's why I'm so drawn to everything he writes. 'Cause almost every chapter I enter with the exact mindset that most people have and then it's like some opposite way of thinking about it that's substantiated with data. I love having my opinion change. - Yeah, it's so rare. Not for you in general in life, it's hard for people to do that. I'm giving you a compliment. - Oh, thank you. But I find it very euphoria-inducing. Like as I was driving home from work yesterday, listening to it and I was just like all a titter. - You have like a little baby? - A little baby boy in a toilet bowl of stew. (laughing) - Should we tell people that we think we might be having a baby? - Oh, sure. I don't want to start the rumor mill, but I used Monica's toilet at her new house, which is a non-functioning house. And what I did is I flushed the toilet and it flushed properly. And I was like, oh, the water's still on great. Then I whizzed, okay? Then I hit the flusher again. Oopsies, no water in there. So then I came to you and I was like, I've peed in your commode and I got a, I'm gonna have to bring over a five gallon bucket of water and flush this thing. You know, like, yeah, we'll get to it. And then you were there like a couple days after. And you were gonna pee your pants. - Yeah. - And so you peed on top of my feet. - I did. I didn't want to put peeing another toilet 'cause that would just be multiple things we'd have to figure out. So I peed on top of your pee. And it's all still there. This is weeks ago. - Oh, jeez. - I'm so embarrassed for us. - And we think that maybe the mixture of the pee-- - A life hope girl. - We don't know. - We just don't know. Maybe Malcolm Gladwell could weigh in on how many broth babies deserve this. - Historically how many broth babies there are. I think this would be so exciting though if we went over there and took, well, we went over there with the five gallon water bucket and then we heard my mom, dad, dad. (laughing) And there was a little yellow baby down there. - No. (laughing) - I would really love it. - Are you sure? - I would take care of it. - Of course we would or a little urine baby. - Yeah. It would probably need to like live in that toilet. It might need to live in that toilet, you're right. And it would be jaundice, so. - Well for sure. (laughing) - Okay. - Extreme with jaundice. - Okay. - Anywho. Okay, Claire. - Claire. - So the TV movie that Kristen was in-- - Oh, yes, we got the name of it. - Yeah, I got the name of it. The TV movie that Kristen was in with Claire was called Polish Wedding. And she had braces in it. But in the still that she showed me her mouth is closed. - Do you think that was a racist thing where they were like all Polish people wear braces? Everyone in this movie has to have braces. - They've bad teeth. They spend all their money on braces. That's a stereotype. We all know. - So Kristen had braces in real life or she had prosthetic braces or Claire had braces? - Oh good question. No, Claire didn't, Kristen did. She said I had braces, but maybe you're right. Maybe that was the character had braces. 'Cause did Kristen have braces? Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think she did. - I want to say she had 'em for like a week. - Okay, well that does not fit. - No, like they were almost perfect. - No, I don't buy any of that. No, no, no, no, no. - Well, they went to the order of the nonus and he goes, "But I can have this fixed by Sunday." - Is she? - I'm gonna put these braces on. You're gonna take 'em off Sunday and you're gonna have a beautiful smile. - I would ask Google, but instead I'm gonna ask Kristen's mom. - Okay. - We have a quick question. - Quick question. - Does Kristen have braces in life? - And for how long? - And if so for how long was it over a week? - We'll see if your response, I think she's at work, but. - We should open up a orthodontia clinic that's called One Week Orthodontia. - Whether we could-- - We should be a huge scale! - I know, I know, but think how much business we would do in that first few weeks before people got wise to it. - You're morals, you're more. Oh my God, like the thing you sent me last night. - Oh my God, I have the greatest idea. You think I can't even say it? - You have to make it very clear, Kidney. - Okay, so I'm definitely joking. I have no plans to really do this, but we're watching the morning show, and you know, I'm guessing it's loosely based on Matt Lauer. - Maybe they haven't said that explicitly, but I would say yes. - Okay, so it appears to be kind of based on Matt Lauer. And of all of his indiscretions, there's no arguing the guy was incredibly good at that job. - Right, yeah, and Bill O'Reilly, even though I can't, I never watch the show and my politics are opposite. Tremendous at that job. He was number one in the ratings for every year, he was on that network. So anyways, I was starting about launching a network called Canceled Network or Canceled TV. And it's just all these guys that have been canceled. And you know, I think people in public would be like, I hate that person, but then at home, they would probably watch it, 'cause they would think no one's looking at them. - It was really an exploration of the difference between your public and private ones. - Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. And that's a joke. - That's a big joke, that's a big, big joke. - But yeah, yeah. - But I do think it would be very successful. - No. - I'm not saying I want it to be successful, I think it would be very successful. - I really don't. - You don't? - No, I don't. I mean, I think they'd have a percentage of people who would like it, but do I think it'd be a popular no? And then you made a, you came over the top, really, 'cause I was saying Lauer and Bill O'Reilly, which I don't think either was accused ever of forcing anyone against their will, rampant abuses of power, but I don't think there's any actual rape allegations, right? But then you came over the top and said, you could have Weinstein do like a movie of the week, too. - Nice. - I know, I said Weinstein. - Yeah. - But that one, he's a. - Well, I had a feeling, so actually that's why I said it. I was wondering what you were gonna say. You didn't respond to me for the rest of the night. - Oh no. - But. - Well, it's gone up in the show you've told me to watch. - But I wondered what your response is gonna be, 'cause I thought maybe you were gonna say something like that. Like, that's not the same thing. - Uh-huh. - But it's close to the same. It's the same thing. - You're right, you're right it is, it is. You're right, it's the same thing, and there's a gradient. - Yeah, there is, and I always say, I know, 'cause I'm always saying that, and the more I'm watching some of this, actually, I finished the morning show last night. - Oh, okay. - And, oh, Steve Corral, God. I love him. - Your undies were really. - So. - In a mess, that's what mom said about you last night. She said, "Oh my God, Monica, "it changed your pants five times "over how good Steve Corral was." - Oh, yeah. - Everyone's jealous of Steve Corral, 'cause I talk about him all the time. - He's the new Jean Cordell. (laughing) - Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. (upbeat music) - Yeah, but anyways, Steve Corral's so good, but I'm watching this whole thing, and I'm just like, yeah, it's horrible. These abuses of power and the chain of power, and it's really bad. And, sure, so technically, he didn't rape anyone. - I'm only drawing a distinction between consensual sex and non-consensual sex. - I know, but I think the line is a little more blurry than-- - People who have traditionally given a credit. - Yeah. - I think you're probably right, yeah. - Yeah. - I'm seeing this 'cause I'm listening to Catch and Kill, Ronan's podcast, which is really good, and I'm reading his book as well, which is also really, really good. And, yeah, when you start hearing the accounts from a lot of the people like Rose McGowan's account, all this, like, she's being touched out of nowhere, right? And so it's just like, you're catching up. - Yeah. - Your brain is trying to catch up to what's going on, and then it's evaluating all the ramifications, you know, career and/or otherwise. And so by the time you could even launch maybe a game plan, you're pretty deep into an assault. - Yeah, exactly. - And so I definitely underestimate how much of what could have appeared to look like consent, it isn't, which is another great chapter of Malcolm's book. It is the complexities of consent. He's like, number one, one of the biggest challenges is, how can you even educate people in college about consent when there's no consensus on what consent is? Is it nodding yes? Is it removing your own club? Like, he starts polling all these people on what thing constitutes consent? And there's just no consensus around that. - Yeah. - So it's like, you don't even really know what marching orders to give everyone. - It's true. - It's such a complicated topic. - Oh yeah, woof, woof, woof, woof, woof, woof, woof. - Okay. - Okay, baby, baby, baby, baby. What do we get a name or a p-baby? - Consent. - I think we should name him or her p-baby. Are you hungry, p-baby? - She might not like that. - Well, she won't know that. - 'Cause she'll assume every-- - 'Cause she'll work, 'cause it'll be clogged up. - Well, like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, not, But also, you know, I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do it. - She'll just assume that everyone was born in a toilet. - Oh, that's nice for her. - Yeah. - Although a pee baby, you know, could have both parts. - Oh. - A pee baby. - Which would be cute. - Yeah. - A little dinger and a little doo-doo. (laughing) - A little deedy and a little doo-doo. - A hermaphrodite? - Yeah, a hermaphrodite. - I learned in Anto. There's really only been, I think, one or two in history. - Really? - Yeah, because part of the definition is that both sex organs have to function. So quite often, like, you'll see, there's all kinds of things that could happen in the womb during the development where something was interrupted, but then it came back online. So you can have women with vagina that appears almost to have like a penis on top with the glotoresis, but it's not really, but, you know, there's been some cases that were filed as a hermaphrodite, but they're not. They don't have functioning sex organs. - So there's approximately 700 worldwide. I don't believe that. - Characterized by the presence of both ovarian and testicular tissues. - Tissues. - Or one, or both gonads. - Okay, but all right. So I think at least in my Anthro class, they had to be functioning, not just present. - Yeah, they call this true hermaphrodite ism. - Okay. - All right. - Well, look at this. I just claimed I love being my mind change. So thank you, Rob. - Yeah. - It doesn't feel as fun when you do it as when- - Sorry. (laughing) - I put some music underneath it, so. - Please. - So she said- - Claire, now we're talking about that. - Yeah, back to Claire, not pee, baby. - Okay. - Okay, back to Claire. So Soho, at some point, you were required to be an artist. - Oh yeah, I didn't wanna make her eat up her time explaining the history of that to me, but I was like, I didn't know that. - I had no idea. It says, "The artist in resident zoning law was passed in 1971 to allow for the conversion of 200 commercial lofts to residential use on the condition that each loft contained as certified artist. Soho and Noho were essentially zoned for, quote, joint living working spaces so that these properties would be off limits to any non-certified artists. For years, a law was widely ignored as agencies like the Department of Buildings concentrated their efforts on matters more pressing than carving out affordable spaces for artists to live. - How does one become certified as an artist, I wonder? - I know. - And why aren't I certified? Should we explore this? - Yeah, we should figure out the process. I wanna get some dirt cheap square footage in Manhattan. - Yeah, and Soho, Soho is awesome. - Oh, yeah. - I was living in New York, I'd probably wanna live there. - You would, I'd live in the West Village. - Or the West Village, yeah, it's hard to pick. One or the other. - All the good burgers are over there in the West Village. - I'm hungry. - Corner bistro. - No, but Emily's is in Brooklyn. - Yeah, yeah. Well, there's an Emily's in the West Village, yeah. - In the West Village, yeah. - But it's not our Emily's. - It's not. - It's beautiful. - It's the same Emily's, and all the burgers are a little bit different in each location. So ours was Brooklyn. - Oh. - We'll eat there again. Maybe we'll bring our pee, baby there. - Oh. - Traveling with her is gonna be hard. I will say. - Is Chrissing gonna be her grandma or her mom? - Well, no, she won't be her mom, 'cause her pee's not in there. I guess she'd be a step mom. - That doesn't feel super complimentary though, does it? - Well, I mean, I don't know what to say. But that's just the truth of the world, okay? - I know, I know. - Her pee is not in there, but I'm not convinced that she won't go pee in there before our baby's maize. - Well, if it can sing really well, we'll know. - Yeah. Okay, so her mom, oh yeah, her mom had a daycare, and that just reminded me, you know, my hot grandma had a daycare? - Oh, yeah. - God, what I have loved have been one of the dads dropping the peepee baby off, and then chatting up your grandma. - Unfortunately, there were no peepee babies there. But I would spend summers, you know, with them, and so I was always around all these little kids, and I was really jealous. - You were? - Yeah. - Oh, yeah, I did like-- - Of your grandma's attention? - Yeah, and then like, when my mom would come, like sometimes I'd spend the whole summer, but my mom would be there for like a week or two, and then my mom would play with some of these kids, and I did not like that. - You did, man. - No, and then my aunt would sometimes come in, and also be nice, like, read us both a story, and I was like, no. - Uh-huh, uh-huh. - My aunt. - Yeah, do you think that's from being an only child for eight years? - Yeah. - Probably. (laughing) - I wanted a sibling so bad. - Do you think you're gonna have a strong streak of jealousy in your next relationship? - Hmm. - Maybe, I hope not. - Maybe though. - No, I mean, I'll try not to, I'll work on it. (laughing) - I'm serious. - I know, I'm just curious. - How do I know I can't predict that? - No, but you have like a hunch maybe, based on the babies playing with grandma and your mom. - Well, they're okay, look, people evolve, okay, I'm not. - I do just think though, when you're born second, like your whole world view is you've got to share, mom, with this kid, it's just you're forced to practice sharing. - Yeah. - And defining love not including exclusivity. - Exactly, that's true, that's true. - No one's fault, if you're born, I would say my brother is much more like you, just 'cause he too had five years without me. - Yeah, that's true. - I mean, I guess if I feel safe by the person, I probably won't feel jealous. - Right. - But I probably didn't feel safe with my mom. (laughing) - Oh, you're beautiful, Gaga. - I'm kidding, I'm kidding. - I feel like it's all brand for your hot Gaga to have had a daycare. - Oh, really? - Yeah. - Well. - 'Cause I'm going to all the stereotypical Indian immigrant stuff. - Oh. - And I think like engineering, medical, all these different things. - Not for, no, no. - Dairy queen. - Oh, oh yeah. (laughing) - I never think childcare. - Not my grandma's age. Women were not doing that. Women were housewives. - Right, or housewives. - Yeah, she was a housewife, but then also ran a daycare. - Oh, okay. Was it profitable? - I don't know how much she charged. - They made a good living though, right? They saved a bunch of money. - Oh, they were very frugal. They didn't spend any money. Like she made all my mom and sisters clothes. - Uh-huh. - But yeah, my grandfather was a professor, so yeah, they had money. - Right. - And they gave me all of it. - Yeah. - Just kidding, just kidding. Okay, so, oh yeah. So she was talking about the guy in my so-called life who was in a noxima commercial. So Jared Leto, who is in the noxima commercial, but he was actually in the commercial you liked with Rebecca Gayle, he was her love interest. - Oh my gosh. - Yeah, yep. - I can't think of any accolade that would more prove that you were the most beautiful couple in the world than to have a noxima came in. - I agree. - Wow, the skin of angels. - Oh boy. - Okay, was Titanic the biggest movie of all time when it came out? It set the record for highest domestic grossing movie ever from its debut in December 1997, to close in October 1998, making more than $650 million. - Just domestically. - Yeah. - You said psychology is 150 years old. The late 19th century marked the start of psychology as a scientific enterprise. Psychology as a self-conscious field of experimental study began in 1879. - Wow, I almost nailed it to the dot. - Do you wanna do exact math? - It's 141 years. - Wow, great job. - So it's nine years off. - Yeah, really close. - Hey Google, what is nine divided by 141? - The answer is approximately 0.06383. - Zero point zero. Yeah, so it's less than one percent off. By the way, there is nothing cuter than Google in your chair. It makes me smile so much every time I walk in. She has her own microphone right? - She is really cute. - I feel like she has a. - She's cuter than the P baby. - Don't you think she's in love with that microphone? 'Cause they look almost the same. - Yeah. - They're like the clearly of the same species. - Yeah, it's nice. - Oh wow. Okay, the DSM history that you give. - Yeah. - I can't find anything on that. And then I checked with Wendy. - Olga? - Yeah. She said a lot of stuff about the DSM. And you're right that it's like. - Controversy. - Correct. But she doesn't know anything about the thumb, although she was like, I kind of remember hearing something like that. And I said, I think you may have heard it on our show. - Oh, no, no, no. There's a, I could bring it up on YouTube right now. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've watched it three or four times. English man who tricked psychologists, let me see if it pops up. It doesn't pop up. I'm gonna move on. It didn't pop up. So let's move on. - Okay, so you'll find it and we'll put it on the yearly fact check. (laughing) - No, we'll talk about it too. - We'll revisit it, yeah. - Okay, so the percentage of bipolar in the US, bipolar disorder is a neurobiological brain disorder that affects approximately 2.3 million Americans today or almost 1% of the population. Her estimate was a little higher, but she said I don't really know for sure. - Right, then you get, we always, we always get into this human eye. It's always like, is that people who have already acknowledged they are or it's hard to know in that figure. Is it a speculation? - I think of this as people who are diagnosed, I guess. - Yes, there's gonna be a lot. Then you go like, "Oh, there must be a ton of undiagnosis." - Sure, but there's no way to do any statistics on that. We just can't do it. - We don't have the tech. - Unfortunately, we do have a good piece of tech in here. - We do. - But we don't have all the tech. Hey Google, how many pee babies exist in the world? - Oh, great question. - Sorry, I can't help with that yet. - Well, eventually she'll get to say one, when ours is born. We'll get back. Do you Google? Okay. We'll tell you first if we have the first example of one. All right, I love you. Bye. Love you.