Alan Dershowitz: Why I quit the Democrats

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Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra, cementmobile.com. "Originally, I left the Democratic Party and became an independent. I can't be an independent because I want to see the Democrats lose. I think we're seeing a party in turmoil. I'm one of the symptoms. I want the Republicans to win. Partly is the lesser of two evils, but I think there are some very positive things about the Republicans too. I think we're seeing more of a movement of the parties than we are a movement of the people. Lots of people I know have left the Labor Party for similar reasons. They just or rather they feel like the Labor Party left them. I wanted to ask you what you think of the new kind of Democrat that's coming through. Extremists, the mainstream of the party won't condemn them. 1935 was the worst year of the 20th century. Why? What happened? Nothing. It was the last year in which Great Britain and France could have prevented Nazism. We're going to see an increase in the extreme bigotry of the hard left. I'm going to do everything in my power to prevent that from happening. Hi, it's Brendan O'Neill here. Before we meet today's guest, I just wanted to let you know that if you're a Spike supporter or a member of Spike's YouTube channel, you can now watch episodes of this show early. You can watch them up to a week before they're made public. For this perk and many others, sign up now to become a Spike supporter or a YouTube member and get early access to the Brendan O'Neill show. Find out how in the notes below. Hello, welcome back to the Brendan O'Neill show with me, Brendan O'Neill and my special guest this week, Alan Derserwitch. Alan, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Great to have you on. I've wanted to talk to you for some time. I'm a follower of your commentary and your videos and your writing and so it's a great honour to speak with you. I want to ask you about your book, Why I Quit the Dens and So Should You, Exclamation Mark. That's the important part to put there it is. The Exclamation Mark at the end of the subtitle is I particularly like great emphasis on why everyone should leave and then the subtitle Confessions of a Reluctant Republican. What a book title that is, but there's a lot to unpack there. Let's start off with your relationship with the Democrat Party. You were in it for a long time and as this book suggests, you've now left. What happened to the Democratic Party in recent years? What was it that made you think I've got to get out of here? Well, the same thing had happened so many of my British and Canadian friends who were members of the Labour and when Corbyn got in power, they couldn't divide some of his policies to a lesser degree in Canada where many of my friends were part of Labour and they quit and became conservatives. I think we're seeing more of a movement of the parties than we are a movement of the people as Ronald Reagan put him many years ago. He didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left him. I was very reluctant to leave my parents, my grandparents, my grandmother had a picture of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and we were great fans of the Democratic Party. It's very apt for the discussion here in the UK as well. Lots of people I know have left the Labour Party for similar reasons. Rather, they feel like the Labour Party left them and went off in a weird direction and so they were left with the conservative party, I guess. Reluctant conservatives like you being a Reluctant Republican. I mean, the obvious example is all around Mamdani who is now world famous, Mayor of New York obviously, but there are others around him and like him who take pretty radical positions. What do you think of people like that and also is that the future of the Democrats do you think? It is the future of the Democrats because not only are there some extremists, some of those you mentioned, but the mainstream of the party won't condemn them. So then when LSAE gets the nomination and campaigns with Hassan Piker, people like Schumer support him, people who are always been at the center of the party. So it's not just that the extremists have moved more extreme, but that the base of the party at the center has embraced the extreme left. The difference in the Republicans is, you know, you have Tucker Carlson too, but most Republicans have marginalized Tucker Carlson, including the head of the party president Trump. So the difference is not so much at the extremes is at the center and that's what made me ultimately decide there was no future. Originally, I left the Democratic Party and became an independent and my wife did the same thing. She became an independent. She's remained an independent. I can't be an independent because I want to see the Democrats lose in November. I don't want to see them control the House and the Senate. And the only way to participate in that change is to become Republican. Now I don't support many of the Republican platform issues. I do support a woman's right to choose abortion. I support separation and citizenship. Let me put it this way. I'm a British conservative. I would feel very comfortable in the British conservative party today. It wouldn't, it wouldn't have any acid. There wouldn't be any reluctance. I would be a true British conservative. British conservatives are good on domestic policies. They're opposed to the death penalty. They believe in separation of church and say the American Republican party is much more socially conservative. So I have a lot of trouble with them. So, you know, if I moved to Britain one of these days, don't be surprised. Yeah, I think you'd like Kemi Badenock, the leader of the conservative party here, who has some pretty liberal values, but also has a kind of core conservatism. And she's a very outspoken defender of Israel. And I wanted to come on to that question with you because Israel is an issue close to your heart. It's also an issue close to my heart. I'm not Jewish, but I write about the Israel issue quite a bit. I wanted to ask you what role the Israel question played in terms of screwing up the Democrats or creating this new cater of Democrats who are a bit kind of crazy. What role does Israel play in relation? It's the symptom. Look, the worst human rights issue in the history of the world, the worst human rights issue in the history of the world is the Palestinian issue. They could have had a state in '48 and '67, '92, '2001, '2005, '2007. They engage in terrorism. They murder. They rape. It's the worst human rights issue. And yet so many young people who don't care about the Kurds, don't care about the Ugros, don't care about Sudan, only care about Palestinians. That's not because they give a damn about the Palestinians. They hate the Jews. And it's because Israel is a Jewish state and because many of its supporters, though, not all of them are Jewish. It's very easy. Look, if you went to a public relations person today and said, look, I've lost my job. I'm Tucker Carlson. I'm no longer on Fox. I have no audience. I need a new audience. What should I do? Should I support the Kurds? No, no, no. That would be foolish. Support the Palestinians because you immediately have 10% of the Jews who are self-hating. They will join you. 20% of the world is anti-Semitic. They will join you. The young, stupid, hard left. They'll join anything. They'll join you. So you immediately have a very large base of support. And so the Palestinian issue has really been a symptom. Nobody cares about the Palestinians except Israel and the Palestinians. But people on university campuses don't know anything about the Palestinians. And they just support them because their opposition is Jewish and the nation's saying to the Jewish people. If Israel weren't the nation's saying to the Jewish people, the Palestinians would have no support. Yeah. I often think that if you if you were really pro Palestine, as they say, then you would support the destruction of Hamas rather than supporting Hamas. That would be the logical position. A group that opposes gays, opposes transgenders, doesn't believe in a woman's right to drive a car or a woman's right to live her own life. You don't join a group like that. You try to find yourself maybe in other course, maybe Iranian supporters who are trying to topple the Iranian regime. But no, nobody, you can't get a demonstration on college campuses today for Ukraine. You can't get one for only for Palestine by a bunch of ignorant bigots who don't really know anything or care anything. So it's really more of a symptom than it is a cause. One of the things that shocked many of us after seventh of October, I often say that the eighth of October in some ways was more shocking for me because that's the day when people danced and celebrated outside the Israeli embassy in London. It also happened in Sydney and Berlin. in other cities around the world, people celebrated the mass murder of Jews. It was a real eye-opening moment for me. The world went crazy after 7th of October. There was a lot of it in the United States, including on these leafy campuses that seem to have been overrun by Hamasmania. How bad did things get there? And do you think they're starting to improve or not? No, look, I think if not to know who was defeated and more centurist government appears in Israel, you'll see some change in some attitudes among some people. But I think not to know who has largely been an excuse, and there will be continuing anti-Israel, more than pro-Palestinian anti-Israel, attitudes and demonstrators, particularly among young people. I think that's a permanent change in attitudes, which is why Israel has to be sure to be able to go to it on its own, can't count on the support of foreign countries, even old allies like England, Australia and Canada. Many of the young people are automatically knee-jerk turning against Israel, and that will take a long time to change. How worried are you about the long-term drift in terms of public attitudes towards Israel? Because there's always been the cranky crazy left. There's always been the islamists, and now we have the islamo left, the unholy marriage of these two movements. But there is, it seems to me, from polling I've seen in the United States, and certainly here in the United Kingdom, that Israel is falling out of favor with fairly significant sections of the population. I think there's still residual support in America for Israel, but it's changing, I think. How worried are you about that longer-term trend? Can Israel turn it around? Or is there nothing Israel can do? I don't think Israel can turn it around. I think Israel can continue to survive with it. It just has to become a little bit more internal and self-reliant. Anti-Semitism has been a constant for 2,000 years. It only ended for a period of time after the Holocaust, and until about the 2,000s, that was the strange time. The golden age where people actually began to like Jews and like Israel. But now we're back to normal. We're back to the 1930s. We're not in 1935. We're in 1932, but we're still seeing college campuses, students terrified to go to class. They won't wear a keepaw or a star of David. I think that's, if not a permanent situation, a long-term situation. I don't think we're getting out of it so quickly. If you want to know what a country we look like in 20 years, look at its college population. Particularly elite colleges today, I will be speaking at Oxford in a few weeks, and I do not expect a warm, fuzzy positive reception, but I'm going to fight back as strongly as I can. Last time I debated Israel-Palestine that the Oxford Union actually won the debate, which shocked everybody. I don't think that's possible today, but whether I win or lose is less important than whether I present the case effectively and maybe change the minds of open-minded people who are becoming smaller and smaller in numbers. Yeah, you'll have a rough time at Oxford, but I'm sure you'll give as good as you get. I did want to ask you, the subtitle of your book, is about becoming a reluctant Republican. I want to ask you a couple of questions about what that means, but firstly, why did you feel you couldn't be an independent? Are you just not a fence-sitting person, or do you now actively want the Democrats to fail, as you suggested earlier? I want the Democrats to fail. I came to realize that after a few weeks as an independent, I was not an independent. I wanted the Democrats to lose. I did not want them to become chairman of House committees and Senate committees. I was terrified for the country, for America, if you get current Democrats, if you get, say, if I'll say, you'd win the election and becomes chairman of an important committee or some of the other current Democrats, both in the House and in the Senate. So I want the Republicans to win. Partly is the lesser of two evils, but I think there are some very positive things about the Republicans too, and I run an article recently in which I said 1935 was the worst year in history of the 20th century. Why? What happened in 1935? Nothing. That's why it was the worst year. It was the last year in which Great Britain and France could have prevented Nazism from rising and killing tens and tens of millions of people, but nothing happened in '35. And what I was afraid of and I'm still afraid of is nothing is going to happen. And we're going to see an increase in the extreme bigotry of the hard left and the center is going to get squeezed out and both Great Britain and the United States, which have thrived at the center. Remember, we were the successful countries in World War II because of Winston Churchill and Franklin Delano Roosevelt. We astute the extremes, and I'm afraid that now the Democratic Party are moving us to a much more extreme part of the political spectrum. And I'm going to do everything in my power to prevent that from happening, even if it means occasionally holding my nose and voting for a Republican, who I disagree with, lesser of two evils as an important part of democracy. Yeah, I completely agree. You mentioned already that the Republican Party obviously has extremes around it as well, but it's better at containing them or ousting them than the Democrats are, the Democrats tend to be a bit more indulgent of their extremes. But I did want to ask you about people like Tucker Carlson and so on. I mean, he is very influential on the internet, but he's not exactly going to the White House every day for lunch. So he is kind of, but what do you think about someone like JD Vance and his ongoing relationship with Tucker Carlson? I know that some American Jews some American Jews are a little bit wary of Vance. They're not sure where he stands. What's your take on Vance? Wary is a good term. I like JD Vance. I think he's very smart. I think he's been a good Vice President. I have an open mind. I am hoping to be able to influence him and people like him. I can't influence a Sunpiker. I can't influence Tucker Carlson. I've given up on all of those, but I think that JD Vance could be a very good President, along with Marco Rubio, and there are a number of others in the Republican side. There are some good Democrats as well. The irony for the Democrats is four of the six leading candidates for President. Four are Jewish, Shapiro, and Pritzker, and Emanuel, and Osof. I do not believe today's Democrats could nominate a Jew. I think that there's enough anti-semitism within the party to make it impossible for a Jew to get the nomination unless the Jews sit up and say, "I hear by pledge universal unequivocal support for the Palestinian cause. I want to see the end of Israel." Then a Jew possibly could get the nomination, but of the four Jews who are running, they are all moderate, centrist Zionists, and I don't think any of the four of them today could get the Democratic nomination. Ironically, they could get the Republican nomination, but they're not running. The only Democrat I support today is John Federman, but he won't even get the nomination in his own party, in his own state. He's going to have to run as an independent because the Democrats have left him as well. I'm one of the symptoms of that party in turmoil, and I'm going to fight hard to see if there's any possibility of returning the Democrats to their home. I don't think so, and as long as that's the case, I'm going to stick to my guns. I'm going to leave the Democrats. I'm going to reluctantly vote for the Republicans. I'm going to hope for Republican control, the House, and set it. That's not going to happen. The Democrats are going to control the House. Don't know what's going to happen in the Senate, but I suspect we'll see a mixed government for the next two years. Alan, just a couple more questions for you. The midterms are coming up. You've already mentioned them in a couple of months. We'll all be gripped watching them. America is one of the countries whose elections make headlines around the world. How do you see those going? I mean, one question I've seen you talk about this before is the question of who Jews should vote for in something like the midterms. Is there a party for American Jews? That's the question I've, some people are grappling with in the United States. What do you think? Well, you know, the old expression is two Jews, three opinions, and you can't get any kind of unity in my family. I'm the only member of my large family that has become a Republican. I think most of the rest of them are reluctant Democrats who will hold their nose and vote for Democrats. And I think the Jewish community will remain 70, 30 Democrat. Maybe it'll move to 60, 40. That similar movement occurred in Great Britain and in Canada and Australia. And other Western democracies, Jews vote not only their own interests, but they are universalists. And they vote for the interests of other people. The Great Rabbi Hillel once said, if I am for myself, if I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am for myself alone, what am I? And I think many Jewish vote is trying very hard to balance. And I suspect many will strike that balance in favor of the Democrats. I'm not among them. I'm going to be one of those Jews who will strike the balance in favor of the Republicans with some reluctance. Look, I've never quite pulled a ballot for Republicans. So for me, this is a test. My heart knows which way it wants to go. I'll see if my arm follows my heart. If I can actually pull the lever for a Republican, I think I can't. One thing that Donald Trump has got into trouble for saying over the recent years is he sometimes scratches his head and said, "I can't understand why so many Jewish Americans vote for the Democrats or why so many Jewish Americans insist on being progressive, being liberals, when that is a movement that is increasingly consumed by Israelophobia, if not outright anti-Semitism." What's your answer to that? Look, I had dinner with President Trump not so long ago and with the Emir of Qatar and with the Emir of Qatar's brother, and we were obviously focused on the Abraham Accords and peace in the Middle East and President Trump asked me several times at that dinner. How come your people don't vote for me? And I had to respond by saying Mr. President, I don't have any people. I vote myself at Jews vote independently, Jews care deeply about gay rights. They care deeply about the rights of other people. So it's a hard sell to get Jews to become Republicans. But I've tried to explain that to President Trump on more than two or three occasions and he still doesn't understand how any Jew should not vote for him who he believes was the best President the Jews ever had. He may be right about that, but it's a hard sell to make Jewish people believe what was their party of choice for over 100 years. Okay, my very last question, if you had any advice for people in the UK who might feel similarly to you, they may have been connected with or members of the Labour Party for years and years, perhaps even decades. They have the same feelings as you have about where the party is going, the new intake, what direction it's moving in. I mean, aside from reading your book, which they obviously should, what advice would you give them in terms of cutting those ties and just leaving, I guess? Well, I wouldn't cut so fast. I would say that right now in Great Britain there's somewhat more of a chance of influencing the left. Then there is in the United States, and if I were a Jewish voter, a patriotic, a British citizen who loved his country, Britain, I would make the hard choices and I wouldn't try to dictate to anybody which way to go. If your priorities like mine are for the Middle East and for peace and for worrying about the future of the Jewish community in America, if you share my priorities, then I would say switch parties, but if your priorities are more universalistic, switch to your party, I'm not going to lecture anybody, I would say read the book. I think the book makes very strong arguments for changing, and if you reject those arguments, I welcome the fact that I've had at least some ability to influence your thinking, but I'm not going to lecture you or criticize you if you come out differently from me. I will criticize you if you don't read the book because I think that gives you an opportunity to hear my side of the issue, and if you are persuaded, then join me and become a conservative if not, then remain within your party and try to influence the party to move to the center. Alan, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Hank joined BJ's wholesale club the day he became a father of 30. I coach football. Now coach Hank saves up to 25% off gross restore prices, 30 pounds of pasta, 3 cases of protein bars, 75 sports drinks, and that's just pregame. He knows teamwork, and BJ's knows savings. This is your home coach, home of the save, join for just 20 dollars at BJ's dot com slash mosquito and save 10 cents per gallon for six months, open soon limited time offer new members only. BJ's home of the save.